cannot charge you nor I hope any one else Tim. No I am sure they cannot the People to whom I have Preached now Two Sundays together can bear me Witness I am sound here for I have handled these main Doctrines amongst them though I never knew they were part of the Articles of the Church before Tit. That 's not material to you whether you Preach according to the Articles you have subscribed or not But by the way I observe Tim. you have a Whisking Faculty at handling to handle Three such Points in two half hours or thereabouts Tim. Nay I was not longer yet performed so well that I had as many thankful scrapes as Dr. O. himself for his long interwoven Discourse of late at Tit. 'T is like you might have as many Tongues but I doubt not so many Guineys as he Tim. Guineys what are they Tit. Now I see thou art ignorant of something besides the Articles Guineys they are the great Procurers of Advousons Presentations and Ecclesiastical Preferments their Principal Residence is about the Court and they sometimes help a Church-man at a dead lift when Merits and Friends both fail Tim. I wish I could meet with one of these Courteous Gentlemen I am sure none ever stood in more need of his Assistance Tit. One no less than some hundreds according as the Place may be Thousands will do you any kindness at all Tim. Nay then I despair for having lived Forty years and never met with one 't is more than probable I shall be dead before I procure a Thousand to stand my Friends Tit. It will do you more good to understand the Articles of the Church and practise them for that will make you happier in Forty years more than all the Guineys in England can Therefore push on to the next Article V. The Holy Ghost proceeding from the Father and the Son is of one Substance Majesty and Glory with the Father and the Son very and eternal God. Tit. Here I hope you are sound too Tim. Yes truly for the Athanasian Creed teacheth me thus much touching the Holy Ghost which Creed I have often Repeated and do most stedfastly believe Tit. I wish all that have subscribed this Article could say as much But let us have the Sixth Article VI. Tim. Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to Salvation so that what soever is not read therein nor may be proved thereby is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an Article of the Faith or be thought requisite or necessary to Salvation In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those Canonical Books of the Old and New Testament of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church Tit. As to this I hope you are perfectly Orthodox Tim. So perfectly that I wish all but the Canonical Books of Scripture had been left out of our Calendar for since our Church here Affirms that these Contain all things necessary to Salvation and consequently are sufficient for Example of Life and instruction of Manners I think we might have made a pretty good shift with these especially on Sundays without Tobias Bell and the Dragon with the use of the Apocraphites Tit. And I Assure you if our Calendar were to suffer a new impression and I were the Corrector I should not boggle much to gratifie you in this Opinion Tim. I thank you for your good will but since it is not in my power nor yours to amend it we must be content and make as much use of the former and as little of the latter as possibly we may Tit. Very good I wish we agree in the next as well as we do in this Article VII The Old Testament is not Contrary to the New for both in the Old and New Testament everlasting life is offered to mankind by Christ who is the only Mediator between God and Man being both God and Man. Wherefore they are not to be heard which feign that the old Fathers did look only for transitory promises Although the Law given from God by Moses as touching Ceremonies and Rites do not bind Christian men nor the civil Precepts thereof ought of necessity to be received in any Common-Wealth Yet notwithstanding no Christian man whatsoever is free from the obedience of the Commandments which are called Moral Tit. This Article hath a great Deal in it Tim. Where lies it I don't perceive it Tit. No Why it Requires of every Christian Man Obedience to all the Commands called Moral now how do you Comport with it in your Practice Tim. I own it Obedience is Due to all the Commands that are Moral Tit. Why is there any that is not Moral Tim. Yes I think so Tit. Which is that Tim. The Fourth Tit. Why so Tim. Why the Article Termes it so Tit. I can't tell I don't believe it Tim. Nor a great many besides you who have subscribed this Article yet deny the sence of it Tit. I must be plain In troth I hold it no more moral than All Saints or the Fifth of November Why doth the Church require all her Members when this Command is read to say Lord have mercy upon us and incline our hearts to keep this Law c. Tit. I thought somewhat was the matter you make so slight of it that you can share one half of it Weekly to your own use and Service Tim. And I hope no Offence Tit. And as you give your People leave in the Afternoon so many of them took leave for the Forenoon and thus you share the whole betwixt you leaving the rest to God Almighty Yet no Offence I hope Tim. If it be Morral why is it not perpetuall without Alteration Tit. 'T is the shameful Prophanation of this Day by you and such as have Sucked in your Principles that hath Ushered in so much Irreligion amongst us and helped to pull down such severe Judgments upon us But hoping being better informed you will become reformed hear me a little as to this point Tim. When you have said all you can you can never prove it Morral and perpetual Tit. You have owned't is so by your Subscription of this Article and will you now question it Tit. Yes I do for I knew not there was any such Article amongst them if I had known it I Tim. Nay never Repent you have done it for you have no cause if you understood as you ought Tim. Understand what Tit. Tâ—ht the Morality of this Fourth Command lies not in observing the Seventh day from the Creation for the Fourth Commandment doth not require to use and sanctifie the Seventh Day from the Creation nor from any other Period or Date of time but only the Seventh Day after Six of Labour or coming between Six of Labour in a settled Course of Numbring from any Period that God should appoint and so in the Meaning of that Commandment we do now and ever must use the Seventh Day For the Seventh is that part
in order of Numbering which still comes between Six having Six before it and Six after it continually and so our Sunday our Day of rest hath and therefore we also rest the Seventh Day dim I deny it ours is the first not the Seventh Tit. And the Seventh as much as the first the first of our Week and Seventh after Six of Labour Indeed the Period from which we take the beginning of our Account is not the same but another from the Jews for they did Reckon from the beginning of the Creation and so forward we from the Resurrection and so forward but ours is as truely and surely the Seventh as theirs though Reckoned from another Period and as for the Period whence the account must be made we have no word at all in the Precept For the Precept saith not Six Days from the Creation thou shalt labour and the Seventh from the Creation is the Sabbath of the Lord but Six Days shalt thou labour nor doth it say The Lord blâ—ssâ—d and Sanctified the Seventh Day from the Creation but the Sabbath Day that is the Seventh after Six of labour Tim. And what do you understand by all this Tit. I understand what I suppose the Article Enjoynes by Requiring every Christian to yield obedience to the Commandments and so to this Fourth among the rest viz. That you and I and every Christian is oblidg'd by vertue of this Command for ever to rest every Seventh day after Six from all labour Recreation c. and to Dedicate it in Solemn manner wholly to the worship and Service of God by preaching Reading Praying and other Holy Religious Duties and Exercises both iâ— Publick and Private Consider this a little and give me your thoughts Tim. I need not much time to Study I have in the Company I have been Conversant with some Clergy men as well as others heard the Sabbath so Decryed and the strickt Observation of it so slighted and vilified that I thought there was little in it more than another day But for the future I hope I shall be more diligent in preparing for it and more strickt and serious in the Observation of it than ever I have been Tit. You will do very well and to endeavour to bring it into greater esteem and veneration with the people wherever you come for the life of all Religion amongst us consists in a due keeping this day and believe it our own practice in this regard will prevail more than our Preaching Inasmuch as Examples are of more force with men than Precepts And 't is our Obedience to Gods Commands which must evidence the sincerity of our Faith contained in the Creeds mentioned in the next Article Article VIII The three Creeds Nice Creed Athanasius Creed and that which is commonly called the Apostles Creed ought throughly to be received and believed for they may be proved by most certain warrants of Holy Scripture Tit. Touching this I think I need not question you for though you never see them in the Articles before yet you have often Read them in the Common-Prayer and I suppose with hearty assent to the Articles of Christian Faith contained in them Tim. I do so Tim. Let us therefore hear the next viz. Article IX Original Sin standeth not in the following of Adam as the Pelagians do vainly talk but it is the fault and corruption of the nature of every man that naturally is ingendred of the off-spring of Adam whereby man is very far gone from Original Righteousness and is of his own Nature inclined to evil so that the flesh lusteth always contrary to the Spirit and therefore in every person born into this world it deserveth Gods wrath and damnation And this infection of Nature doth remain yea in them that are regenerated whereby the lust of the Flesh called in Greâ—k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which some do expound the wisdom some sâ—â—sualâ—ty some the affection some the desire of the flesh is not subject to the Law 〈…〉 And althouâ—h there is no condemnation for them that Believe and are Baptized yet the Apostle doth confess that conâ—upisence and lust hath â—â—â—sâ—lf the natuâ—e of sin Tit. If I remember right at Reading the second Article you discovered your self a liâ—tle infirm and faulty about Original sin calling it only a privation of Original Righteousness what think you now Tim. I think if I had Read this Article I should never have Subscribed it nor do I believe it now I have Subscribed it Tit. What nothing no part of it Tim. Truely very little a very small part of it Tit. Do you believe the Scriptures if you do I see no reason why we should not believe this sound Article of our Church even every shred and Syllable of it For 1. It asserts that there is Original sin which is called sin Rom. 7. 8. The sining sin Rom. 7. 13. The sin that dwelleth in us Rom. 7 20. The sin that so easily besets us Heb. 11. 1. The body of sin The body of Death The Law in the Members It is also called Fâ—esh The old Rom. 7. 23 24. Joh. 3.6 Rom. 7.5 Ro. 7. 25. King. 1.8 38. Heb. 12. man. The Law of sin The plague in ones own heart And the root of bitterness Besides the woful effects we find of it in our selves proves it As blindness in the mind darkness in understanding rebellion in the will c. with unholy and unclean affections proneness to sinful and aversness to Holy and Godly Actions 2. Next this Article teacheth us that this Original corruption remains in every man even in the Regenerate and this St. Paul acknowledgeth at large in Rom. 7. and Gal 5. 17. He saith the Flesh lusteth against the Spirit so that we cannot do the things we would And St. James Every Jam. 1. 14. man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own Lust And the best of Gods Children bewail the remainder and indwelling of this Lust and Corruption doubtless therefore our Church is right thus far 3. And also in saying in every person born into the world deserves Hell and Damnation for if it be sin as hath been proved already it can deserve no less Rom. 1. 18. Colos 3.5.6 Jam. 1.15 Ro. 6. 23. So that I can find nothing in this Article but may go down very well if Arminius or Socinus hath not turned your Stomach against it Tim. It can never enter into my Head that Adams sin he being but one should defile the Universal Nature Tit. I thought Socinus was in your Belly before now he looks out at your mouth Adam 1 Cor. 15. 47. Ro. 5. 12. 17. had in him the whole Nature of mankind and by his one offence the whole Nature was defiled Tim. Adams sin was not voluntary in us we never gave gave consent to it Tit. There is a twofold will Voluntas Naturae the whole Nature of man was represented in Adam therefore the will of Nature was sufficient to convey the
which he 〈…〉 to his Corinthians mentions the Death Burial and Resurrectâ—on of Christ but not â—is loâ—â—â—â—â—scension to the state and place of the damned which had been a fiâ— plâ—â—e and opportunity to have inserted it yet affirms he had preached what would suffice to salvation if they were not wanting to themselves 1 Cor. 15. 1 to 5. Tim. You begin to shake me when I thought I had been invincibly setled and unconquerable you give me soft words but hard Arguments have you any more behind for I think long till this combat is ended Tit. Yes 2. I say further that if Christ descended to the place or seat of the damned it was either in his soul which the Scripture testifies went the day or moment of his Death into Paradise Luke 23. 43. a place of Joy not torment and in the same Chapter he saith himself He commended his soul into the hand of his father in the same sense no doubt that St. Stephen did after his example Or else in his Body which we are assured by the fâ—me Infallible Spirit was in the grave till the third day the day of his Resurrection Mat. 12. 40. Or else in his Godhead but to attribute descension to the Godhead is improper which is in all places at one and the same time nor is the Godhead subject to passion How then did he descend Tim. Nay I cannot particularize them but surely it was necessary he should do so Tit. Doubtless then it was done for Christ omitted nothing necessary to be done or suffered in order to the great redemption he was sent to accomplish But as the Scripture doth not clearly affirm it so to me it seems not of absolute necessity in order to our redemption that our surety should descend to the place of the damned and suffer there Tim What are your reasons for this opinion Tit. Because the place of suffering is but a circumstance Hell the place of the damned is no part of the debt Christ was to pay nor suffering there locally any part of payment that we read of in the Gospel As the surety may satisfie the creditor in any place appointed for payment or in open Court which being done the debtor and surety are both acquitted and need not go to Prison If they be cast into Prison 't is because they do not pay the debt for all that Justice requires is the payment of the debt to which the Prison is meerly extrinscecal So the Justice of God cannot be satisfied for the transgression of his law but by the death of the sinner Now it doth not require that this be done or this satisfaction be made in Prison or in the place of the damned for the wicked go thither because they cannot pay the debt or make satisfaction But our surety Jesus Christ who undertook the debt for us hath made such full satisfaction on the Cross that himself said just before he gave up the Ghost Consummatum est the work was finished And the Apostles so understood Christ which made them ascribe all to his suffering or to the merit of his sufferings on the Cross as spoiling of principalities and powers by which is meant the power of darkness the Devils Col. 2.15 and the blotting out the hand-writing that was against us Col. 2.14 our reconciliation to God Col. 1.20 and tell us that he is able now to render us unblameable and unreproveable in the sight of God Col 22. Having by that offering of himself for ever perfected them that are sanctified Heb. 10. 14. And if God is satisfied Mans Redemption perfected and Believers perfected by his Death I can see no necessity of the following descension into Hell. Tim. This is all very rational and convincing But what makes you think that our Church doth not understand it of a local descension and require the belief of it as necessary to Salvation Tit. Two things have raised in me such an opinion viz. 1. Because she doth not here nor any where else that I can find give any such sense or interpretation of the words which were a very dangerous omission if the belief of it were necessary to salvation And 2. Because in her 8th Article where she mentions the 3. Creeds which she affirms agreeable to Scripture viz. the Apostles the Athanasian and Nicene Creed which she not only allows but enjoyns the use of in her Liturgy or publick Service hath in the last of these left the descention of Christ into Hell wholly out which she certainly would not have omitted but have inserted it here as well as in the Athanasian had she thought the belief of it necessary to salvation or designed to bind us to the belief of it for this were to render that Creed imperfect which she allows as perfect and according to Scripture Tim. Really my Stomach begins to turn at a local descention yet ere you can work a full Conversion you must Answer an Objection or two which I have swimming in my Noddle against what you have said Tit. Out with them Tim. and I 'le do the best I can to cleanse thy Stomach and Head too the latter being I fear as much oppressed with ill Notions as the formâ—r is with ill Humours Tim. My first Objection is this The Terrours and Torments which Christ Suffâ—red in his Soul upon the Cross went before his Burial but his descention into Hell follows iâ—â—n â—ur Crâ—â—d and Article therefore his descention in Hell concerns not these Torments Tit. Cunningly offered this discovers thee either Knave or Fool in Logick which you like best for the Minor of this Syllogism is faulty alledging Non Causa pro Causa or that for a Cause which is none For know 1. In the Creed our Saviours Descention into Hell is put after his Burial as an Illustration of what went before touching his Sufferings or Passion least any thing should be detracted from it and not that it was performed after it As if it had been said He not only suffered in Body and Dyed and was laid in the Grave but also suffered extream Fortures Hellish Tormenâ—s in his Soul too such as made him cry-out on the Cross My God my God why hast thou forsâ—ken me 2. And if you observe it Tim. you will find all along in the Creed a Procession in the Passion of our Lord from a lesser to a greater Suffering from the grief and pains of his Body to those of his Soul. That he did suffer in his Soul greatly himself Affirms and we all believe Now where in all the Creed can you find any thing that may express his Soul-sufferings if not these Words He descended into Hell He suffered under Pontiuâ— Pilate was Crucified dead and buried is all which all might be and he suffer in his body only and this the Thieves suffered which were Crucified with him But his Descending into Hâ—ll implys somewhat more viz. Suffering in his Soul which is all the Judicious and Learned Hamon saith on that Text Thou
say worse Tim. You would not have me talk contrary to what I believe would you Tit. What is that Tim. I believe every man hath a power and freedom of Will to good Works as well as Evil. Tit. What Naturally and in an unregenerate Estate Tim. Yes Tit. This is contrary to the Tenth Article as Aye and No directly Opposite to Scripture Which saith the Carnal mind is enmity against God for it is not subject to the Law of God nor indeed can be so then they that are in the Flesh cannot please God. The Natural Man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness unto him neither can he know them because they are Spiritualy discerned No man can say Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost Not that we are sufficient of our selves to think any thing as of our selves but our sufficiency is of God And without me ye can do nothing saith our Saviour Repugnant is your belief also to many Prayers of our Church As the Collect for the Second Sunday in Lent. The Fifth Sunday after Easter The Ninth Sunday after Trinity The Seventeenth Sunday after Trinity The Nineteenth The Collect on All-Saints Day and many more Now what a rare Believer are you to believe contrary to the Word of God the Articles you have Subscribed and the Prayers you constantly Rom. 8. 7. 8. 1 Cor. 2.14 1 Cor. 12.3 2 Cor. 3. 5. John 15.5 make use of and are obliged to put up to God on those several days in the prescribed Words and no other But what 's the next part of your Belief in this matter Tim. That as I have a Power and freedom of will to Good Works so I must do them in order to my being Justified before God. Tit. This is as Corrupt and Erroneous as the Former and as opposite to the next Article read it Article XII Albeit that Good Works which are the fruits of Faith and follow after justification cannot put away our Sins and endure the severity ef Gods Judgment yet are they pleasing and acceptable to God in Christ and do spring out necessarily of a true and lively Faith insomuch that by them a lively Faith may be as evidently known as a tree discerned by the Fruit. Tit. Here you are Taught That Good Works are pleasing and acceptable to God but so far are they from justifying without Faith that they are the fruits of Faith and follow after Justification Plainly implying That we must have true Faith and be justified before we can do any Works good pleasing or acceptable to God. So that I believe according to our Church that Faith in Christ justifies the Person and Good Works the Faith Or thus I take it that God justifies Judicially Christ Jesus Meritoriously Faith Instrumentally and Good Works Declaratively Tim. So then you will make Good Works of little worth and it matters not whether a man hath them or not Tit. No such matter I believe they are absolutely necessary to Salvation that no man can go to Heaven without them for they are as this Twelfth Article tells you the genuine and necessary fruits of a true and lively Faith and that there can be no such Faith without them And St. James saith as much in the Second Chapter of his Epistle at large I believe that Text of Holy Writ which tells me Without Holiness no man shall see the Lord with an equal Faith that Heb. 12.14 Heb. 11.6 I do that which saith Without Faith 't is impossible to please God. That is that both are necessary to make a good Christian and there is no other I am sure shall ever enter into Heaven And to close this Discourse I believe he that Teaches such Doctrine as this stands further off from Rome comes nearer to the Analogy of Faith the Tenour of the Holy Gospel and the sound Articles of our Church then those Men who Teach or Preach otherwise and I hope by this time you think so too Tim. I am inclinable to such thoughts Tit. And the more you think on 't the more inclinable you will still be if you do not wilfully shut your Eyes against the Light of Gods Word and of the following Articles grounded upon it Article XIII Works done before the grace of Christ and the Inspiration of his Spirit are not pleasant to God forasmuch as they spring not of Faith in Jesu Christ neither do they make men meet to receive Grace or as the School Authors say deserve Grace of congruity yea rather for that they are not done as God hath willed and commanded them to be done we doubt not but they have the nature of Sin. Tit. What think you of this added to all the rest Tim. It still helps to Confirm what you have said and to convince me of my Errour without any farther Comment Tit. Proceed then to the next viz. Article XIV Voluntary works besides over and above Gods Commandments which they call Works of Supererogation cannot be taught without Arrogancy and Impiety For by them Men do declare that they do not only render unto God as much as they are bound to do but that they do more for his sake then of bounden duty is required Where as Christ saith plainly When ye have done all that are Commanded to you say We are unprofitable Servants Tit. I have such Charity for thee Tim. as not to think thee so far Popefied as to oppose this Article Tim. You may for surely we who neither do nor can do all that God Commands have little ground to boast of doing more Tit. Honestly said Tim. I hope to find thee right as to the next too Article XV. Tim. Christ in the truth of our Nature was made like unto us in all things Sin only except from which he was clearly void both in his flesh and in Spirit He came to be a Lamb without spot who by sacrifice of himself once made should take away the Sins of the World and sin as St. John saith was not in him But all we the rest although Baptized and born again in Christ yet offend in many things and if we say we have no Sin we deceive our selves and the Truth is not in us Tit. I know nothing contained in this Article that you do Oppose or Cavil at and therefore think the best never loving to make quarrels when there is not just and apparent Cause for it Therefore let us view the following one Article XVI Not every deadly Sin willingly committed after Baptism is Sin against the Holy Ghost and unpardonable Wherefore the grant of Repentance is not to be denyed to such as fall into Sin after Baptism After we have received the Holy Ghost we may depart from grace given and fall into Sin and by the grace of God we may arise again and amend our lives And therefore they are to be Condemned which say they can no more Sin as long as they live here to deny the place of forgiveness
A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Timothy and Titus ABOUT THE Articles and some of the Canons OF THE Church of England WHEREIN Super-Conformity is Censured and Moderation Recommended With a Serious Perswasive to all the Inferiour Clergy of that Church By one that heartily wisheth UNION amongst Protestants Non recipit mendatium veritas nec patitur religio impietatem D. Hillar Non temerè dico sed ut affectus sum ac ut sentio non arbitror Sacerdotes multos esse qui salvi fiant sed multò plures qui pereant Chrys Hom. 3. in Act. Apost Neque enim aliorum salutem sedulò unquam curabit qui suam negligit Calvin Which may be thus Englished Religion not the least Impiety Allows much less of damn'd Hypocrisie I speak not rashly 't is my serious thought More Priests are lost than to Salvation brought His little care of Souls is plainly shown Who takes no care at all to save his own LONDON Printed and are to be sold by Richard Janeway in Queens-head Alley in Pater-Noster Row 1689. A DIALOGUE BETWEEN Timothy and Titus About the Articles and some of the Canons of the Church of England Titus REverend Tim well met I have thought long for a little serious discourse with thee and now opportunity favours me Come here 's a convenient Arbour let 's sit down and enjoy one another one quarter of an hour Tim. Enjoy one another prithee I can't enjoy my self Tit. Bless me What dost mean Tim. I mean I can't I won't talk Tit I confess you have some ill symptoms upon you are you not well Sir Tim. No not so well as I would be Tit. Why who or what would you be Tim. I would be a Bishop Dean Archdeacon or a fat Pastor at least Tit. I commend thee Tim as mad as thou art I see thou wilt wish no harm to thy self And though I never reckoned thy Stars so lucky as to exalt thee to a Bishoprick or Deanary yet were it not that thy thread-bare Cassock and superannuated Beaver suit it not I should have thought a lusty Parsonage or plentifully endowed Vicaridge had been thy lot long ere this Tim. No in truth no such plumbs will fall in my dish Tit. Where lies thy misfortune Tim. In my Conformity which is too scanty yet I know not any punctilio required wherein I have fail'd Tit. Fail'd no thou art so perfectly innocent in this matter that if thou wilt call me before the Bishop I will witness for thee Tim. Witness what will you witness Tit. That which if any thing will do you a kindness and help you to your desired preferment Tim. What 's that Tit. In short I can testifie verbo Sacerdotis that thou art so far from being defective that thou art redundant out-doest the Act for Conformity it self in Practice and many of the Thirty Nine Articles in Doctrine Tim. Good Mr. Titus you make my heart leap within me I should begin to be proud of my self if you would but explain your meaning Tit. Nay not too proud Tim. neither for you are not the only man doth this there are many too many such Conformists besides you Tim. Good still The more the merrier Tit. True but the fewer the better cheer Tim. Well but your meaning You say I and some others out-do the very Act of Conformity in Practice and many of the Thirty Nine Articles in Doctrine Your meaning now Tit. That is in plain English you use those Ceremonies which the Act for Uniformity enjoyns not and Preach such Doctrines as the Articles of our Church the standing Rule next the Scriptures for our preaching allow not This do you and many more of our Brethren in the Church Tim. 'T is easily said but how do you prove it Tit. The thing proves it self only by having recourse to the Act and to the Articles and comparing what you do and say with these touchstones But before we meddle with proof let me ask thee a question or two Tim and prithee answer me seriously come here 's no body hears but thee and I. First didst thou ever peruse the Act of Uniformity Tim. Never in all my life what need I I know my duty without reading the Act. Tit. Huge well no doubt Next did you ever for you never yet were possessed of a Benefice though you often possess the Pulpit for half an hour or so did you I say ever seriously read and consider the Articles of our Church Tim. No neither Tit. But you have subscribed them have you not Tim. Yes Tit. And not read them Tim. No. Tit. A hopeful youth I wish you were single subscribe you know not what and this makes you preach you know not what rise a note beyond Ela and to out-do all your sober brethren preach down the Doctrines of the Church you ought to maintain and destroy with your tongue what you have subscribed to preserve with your hand This makes our enemies on both sides laugh in their sleeves to see so many profound Drs. some for ignorance sake some for interest sake rend in pieces our very foundations preach and write contrary to each other as if the only contest were not who shall be the honestest and most conscientious but the greatest Church-man For go to this Congregation and there Dr. Socinus preaches to that there the Reverend Arminius holds forth to a third and there the much admired Calvin is reading a Geneva Lecture yet all of the Church of England and all subscribers to her Articles This is fine indeed don't you think so Tim. I shall think nothing till you come to prove something Tit. Well remembred First then I am to prove that you and many more of your Crew use some Ceremonies which the Act of Uniformity doth not enjoyn and consequently do more than you need or shall have thanks for from our Law-makers Tim. Ay that prove that Tit. Thus then Tim That Act requires the use of no more Ceremonies than are contained and prescribed in the Book of Common Prayer if therefore you use any Ceremonies not contained and prescribed in the The Act for Uniform Caroli 2d 14. Book of Common-Prayer you use more than the Act requires Tim. What are those Ceremonies contained and prescribed in the Liturgy or Common-Prayer-Book Tit. The Surplice the Cross in Baptism and kneeling at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper Tim. Goodman Ninny and do I use any more than these Tit. Yes Goodman Confidence and more besides you too Tim. Which be they Tit. What think you of bowing at the name of Jesus and bowing to or towards the Altar Are not these as much and as great Ceremonies as either of the former Tim. Granted and as innocent too Tit. That 's not the case but are they enjoyned For if saying this or that is an innocent Ceremony will justifie the making and use of it we may quickly have as many as the Church of Rome her self and then what 's become of our Reformation for all her
wilt not leave my Soul in Hell. And it is therefore put last or mentioned after his Death and Burial Ham. Act. 2.27 to shew that it was the greatest and sharpest part of Christs Sufferings 3. Moreover for the order of expressing it I meet with the very same Luke 16. 23. The rich man dyed and was buried and when he was in Hell c. No doubt his Soul was in Hell before his Body was in the Grave and yet his Burial is put first by our Saviour and his Soul-sufferings afterwards as being onely a higher and farther degree of Misery So in the Creed it is said or in the Article Christ was Dead Buried and descended into Hell or suffered in his Soul Hellish Torments as the sense of Gods Wrath the loss of Gods sight and presence for a time due for our Sins Not that his Death was before his Sufferings in his Soul but these are mentioned last as being the greatest far greater than the Death of the Body and the highest degree of Christs Passion and Humiliation And to Conclude otherwise as that Christ could not or did not suffer in his Soul these Hellish Torments before his Death or Burial because mentioned after both is all one as if you should infer that never any went to Hell before they were Buried because it is said in that fore-mentioned Text That the Rich man Died was Buried and when he was in Hell c. which were a gross Error and contrary to Scripture Nay then it will follow that the Soul cannot go to Hell so long as the Body remains unburied an inference so absurd that a man of any Reason or Religion will neither make nor own it What say you Tim. are we over this stile Tim. Pretty well Thanks to you for the good lift you gave me but there is another yet behind as hard to clamber as the former at which I doubt we shall both stick Tit. Never fear it man I 'le heave with both hands but I 'le have you over now we are come thus far What is it Tim. Seeing these words He Descended into Hell are so dubious and have caused such a Cortroversie why are they not wholly left out of our Articles and Creed Tit. I see you were more afraid than hurt for your frightful Objection is dwindled into a little Question this Bar is so low you may almost go over without help were you not so very weak However that I may not leave you behind know first that every thing that is a Controversie is not an Heresie either in matter of Doctrine or Faith and therefore not presently to be Expâ—nged out of our Creed And since it hath been received by the Church in all Ages since the Fourth Century as Bellarm. tells us and being rightly understood contains in it a truth according to godliness yea necessary to be believed unto Salvation as the Sufferings of Christ in his Soul and continuing in the state of the Dead for a time I say it being so antient and rightly understood so necessary we may not leave it out but retain it to the Edification of our Faith and Consolation of our Souls Sâ—condly If because there hath been some difference or dispute about the meaning of this Phrase in our Creed or Articles we should presently abandon it by the same Rule we must expunge many Texts of Scripture out of our Bible as those that concern the Doctrine of Election and Reprobation Free-will Falling away from Grace c. Controveried by Learned men on both sides and of different Perswasions This is no Rule for putting out of the Articles of our Faith therefore barely because Controversies have risen about the meaning and sense of it But I have been too prolix already therefore let us dismiss this Point Tim. No I am so well satisfied that I must entreat you to give me the Sum of what you said as brief as you can for my Memory is very short and I would fain retain somewhat if Possible Tit. The short then is this There are I say these two different senses of these words He Descended into Hell. Some thereby understand literally a Local Descension into the Place or Which is the Opinion of some of the Antients and all the Papists State of the Damned to conquer the Devils and so set free those Souls that were kept in Hell till Christs Descension Others understand no more than a further degree of Humiliation then his Death and Burial Namely the continuing under the Power of Death for a time or of the Sufferings in his Soul on the Cross whereon our Blessed Saviour was humbled usque ad Inferni tremenda tormenta or endured for a time those Torments Quae reprobi in aeternum sensuri sunt Which the wicked shall Eternally suffer in Hell. As the loss of the sense of Gods favour the Malediction or Wrath of God in his Soul which is Hell or that Fire which shall never be quenched In which Christ himself for a time was scorched for our Sins And therefore This is the Opinion of some Fathers and most of our Modern Reformed Divines may truly enough be said To Descend into Hell. These Brother Tim. are the two senses which of these now do you apprehend the most agreeable to Scripture and the Analogy of Faith Tim. The latter clearly Tit. Then we have done with this your satisfaction being all I aim at in this Discourse Tim. No there is one little Question more comes into my mind though I question whether you can Answer it Tit. It may be not for you know the Proverb Tim. But let 's hear it Tim. Why did not our Bishops when by His Majesties Command at his first Return they inspected the Common-Prayer and Corrected some things in it put some gloss upon these words in the Creed that we might not have been in the Dark as to their sense of them which now we are Tit. It had been very easie for them to have done it and why 't was omitted I can give no reason unless it was either because we should not know their Opinion or because it may be they were divided in their Opinions about it Or else that they would not assume the Honour of doing all that was needful to be done of this Nature but leave som ethings to their Successors among which this may be one And in the next Edition or next Generation God grant the Liturgy and Bishops to stand till then you may expect it Tim. 'T is well Reply'd I will inquire no further Let us proceed Article IV. Christ did truly rise again from Death and took again his body with Flesh Bones and all things appertaining to the perfection of Mans Nature wherewith he Ascended into Heaven and there sitteth until he return to Judge all men at the Last Day Tit. The principal intent of this Article are the Resurrection Ascension of our Saviour with his Coming to Judgment in either of which I confess I
to such as truly Repent Tit. What think you of this Tim. Sound and good Tit. 'T is so if understood aright but by a Sermon you lately Preached at St. B's Church I presume you mistake one Clause of it vilely either willfully or ignorantly Tim. Which is that Tit. 'T is in these Words after we have received the Holy Ghost we may depart from Grace given and fall into Sin. Tim. Mistake the sense of the Article in this 't is not easie nay 't is almost impossible to miss it Tit. Why what is the sense say you Tim. That Believers or such as have received the Spirit of God and his saving Graces may fall away Tit. What totally and finally and perish Everlastingly Tim. Yes totally and finally and be Damned Tit. I judged I should find you as sound in this Point as that Sheep that shaking her self in a frosty Morning falls in pieces That this Article or our Church in it doth not intend a total and final Apostacy is apparent to me by these Two things 1. Because she saith not That such as have received the Holy Ghost c. may fall away but that they may fall into Sin as David Peter and others who Sinned or fell into great and gross Sins after Grace given yet no final Apostates 2. Because she saith in this Article That the grant of Repentance is not to be denyed to such as it is to be granted They which thus Sin after the Reception of the Holy Ghost and Grace given may Repent And by the Grace of God may rise again and amend their Lives as the forementioned Saints and Servants of God David and St. Peter did which no final total Apostate ever did or can do Therefore it cannot be meant of a final Apostacy or falling away from Grace And therefore if you have taught any such Doctrine you have Preached down this Article and many plain Texts of Scripture to boot as They should deceive if it were possible the very Elect. Whom he loveth he loveth to the end The gifts and calling of God are without Repentance Kept by the power of God through Faith unto Salvation He that believeth in him shall not be confounded Whom he did predestinate them he also called whom 1 Pet. 2. 6. Rom. 8. 30. he called them he also justified whom he justified them he also glorified And many more gracious and infallible promises assuring us of the stability and perseverance of true Believers of such as have received the Holy Ghost and Graces thereof Tim. Nay now we are in indeed if we are come to Election and Predestination Tit. Yea and good and proper mediums too to prove no final apostacy or falling away from grace for grant the one and the other follows Election and Predestination are inconsistent with a total and final defection But I hope Tim these are not frightfull terms to you you have heard of them before Tim. Yes but don't well understand them Election and Predestination 't is nonsense Tit. Such sense as you have subscribed to and consequently should believe and maintain against all Arminians and other Opposers Tim. I can't imagin any Article of our Church asserts any such thing so contrary to all reason as nothing can be more Tit. Yes this is such an unreasonable Article and by good luck the very next in course and so full mouth'd for Election and Predestination that you 'ld think some body spoke it through Calvin's Mouth or at least that that wretched stiff Predestinarian guided the hand of him that writ it Look there 't is Tim. nay ne'er start at it but out with it like a man of metal Article 17. Tim. Predestination to life is the Everlasting purpose of God whereby before the Foundations of the World were laid he hath constantly decreed by his Counsel secret to us to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of Mankind and to bring them by Christ to Everlasting Salvation as Vessels made to Honour wherefore they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God be called according to Gods purpose by his Spirit working in due season they through Grace obey the calling they be justified freely they be made Sons of God by Adoption they be made like the Image of his only begotten Son Jesus Christ they walk Religiously in good works and at length by Gods mercy they attain to Everlasting Felicity As the Godly consideration of Predestination and our Election in Christ is full of sweet pleasant and unspeakable comfort to Godly Persons and such as feel in themselves the working of the Spirit of Christ mortifying the works of the Flesh and their Earthly Members and drawing up their mind to high and Heavenly things as well because it doth greatly establish and confirm their Faith of Eternal Salvation to be enjoyed through Christ as because it doth fervently kindle their love towards God So for curious and carnal persons lacking the Spirit of Christ to have continually before their eyes the sentence of Gods predestination is a most dangerous downfall whereby the Devil doth thrust them either into desperation or into wretchlesness of most unclean living no less perillous than desperation Furthermore we must receive Gods promises in such wise as they be generally set forth to us in Holy Scripture and in our doings that will of God is to be followed which we have expresly declared unto us in the word of God. Tit. Bless me what 's the reason of this sudden paleness in your countenance you look as though you were fainting away Tim. Not so Sir but I am stricken with a strange horror and astonishment to think how our Pulpits ring of Doctrines directly contrary to this Article for though I was so careless as never to read the Articles till now yet I concluded these great Dons had and never questioning their honesty I was confirmed in it by their constant preaching no such Article could possibly be but now I see they are out as much as I I pity them with all my heart Tit. Pity thy self man. Tim. I do so but them more because I declare it mine was a sin of Ignorance I am afraid theirs is otherwise and because being leading men they have drawn me and many more into this error by their authority Tit. I am more than half of your opinion For our Church as fore-seeing how prâ—â—e men would be to dance after Arminius his Pipe hath taken more pains in framing this Article than ordinary on purpose to prevent them and 't is so full so plain and punctual that one would think no mistake can arise but what is willfull Tim. Full and punctual there is all that ever can be thought on against Universal Redemption Free Will Falling away from Grace and the use of those points which are most what their subjects especially on popular occasions Tit. Take the contents of the Article and you will be confirmed in your opinion which are these 1.
for himself yea even the wicked for the Prov. 16.4 day of wrath Hath not the Potter power over the clay of the same lump to make one Rom. 9.21 vessel unto honour another unto dishonour was ever any thing more fully and plainly said in holy writ than this part of our Article Tim. I think not or can be Tit. These portions of Scripture to which more might be added were it needfull doe not barely assert a Predestination of some and not of others but assign also all the causes of such Predestination as 1. The Cause efficient to be the everlasting purpose of God. 2. The Cause formal Gods infinite goodness mercy and free grace 3. The Cause material the blood of Christ 4. The Cause final or end why both God the Father hath loved and Christ for his Elect hath suffered is the glory of God and the salvation of men so that I cannot see how any man who is at enmity with this Article can hold any good friendship with these Texts of Scripture or with those that arise to prove the next point which is this 6. They who are Elected unto salvation if they come unto years of discretion are called both outwardly by the word and inwardly by the spirit of God. These things are most evident and clear in the Scriptures where is set down both the calling of the Predestinate their obedience to the word being called their adoption by the Spirit to be the chidren of God and their holiness of life and conversation whom he did Predestinate them he also Rom. 8.30 Gal. 1.15 1 Thess 2.12 2 Tim. 1. 9. Eph. 1. 13. called God separated me from my mothers womb Called me by his grace Walk worthy of God who hath Called you to his Kingdom and glory He hath saved us and called us with an holy calling according to his own purpose and grace c. In whom also ye trusted after ye heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation Ye have received the spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba father the same spirit bearing witness Rom. 8.15 16. with your spirits that we are the children of God. And for their being chosen and called to holiness of life and good works the Apostle plainly enough asserts saying we are his Eph. 2. 10. workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works which God hath ordained that we should walk in them And the Grace of God hath appeared c. teaching us that denying Tit. 2. 11. 12. ungodliness and worldly lusts we should live soberly righteously and Godly in this present world yea saith the next Proposition 7. The Predestinate are both justified by faith sanctified by the Spirit and shall be glorified in the life to come All these blessed effects of Predestination doth the Scripture fully assert for know saith the Apostle a man is not justified by the works of the Law but by the faith of Jesus Christ Moreover whom he predestinated c. them he also glorified If children then heirs heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ And as we Gal. 2. 16. have born the image of the earthly so shall we bear the image of the heavenly Now are not all these consequents of Predestination viz. Justification Sanctification and Glorification Rom. 8. 30. v. 17. 1 Cor. 15. 49. fully enough expressed in these Texts Tim. Very fully in my opinion Tit. Therefore very well doth our Church say in the next part of this Article That 8. The consideration of Prodestination is to the godly most comfortable but to curious and carnal persons very dangerous To the former the Meditation of it must needs be exceeding sweet pleasant and comfortable because it greatly confirms their faith in Christ and encreases their love towards God. I account the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us If God be for us who Rom. 8. 18. v. 31 32 33 34. can be against us He that spared not his own Son how shall he not with him freely give us all things Who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods Elect it is God that justifieth who is he that condemneth ye are sealed with the holy spirit of promise which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession unto the praise of his glory And again grieve not the holy Spirit whereby ye are sealed unto the Eph. 1. 13 14. day of Redemption Here is a deep and large Well of Consolation to the godly yet not affording the lest drop to carnal and wicked men Eph. 4. 30. Tim. But doth not this Doctrine lead towards Desperation Tit. by no means for no man either from the word of God or this Article of ouâ— Church can gather that he is a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction but contrariwise by many and great arguments may perswade himself that God wills not his destruction as by the next proposition plainly appears viz. 9. That the general promises of God set forth in holy Scripture are to be embraced of us such are Come unto me all ye that travel and are heavy laden and I will give you rest Math. 11. 38. 39. Joh. 3. 16. 17. 1 Tim. 2. 4. God gave his onely beloved Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish c. Who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth These and many more such general Promiseâ— of grace and favour to mankind are heartily to be embraced of us as encouragements to faith repentance and an holy life So that whoever embraceth these promises and as our Church in the close of this Article saith 10. Will in his actions be directed by the revealed will of God hath no ground to despaire or to exclude himself out of the number of Gods Predestinate or chosen ones Thus you see the drift of this Article comprehending most fully and clearly that great doctrine of Predestination with all its coherent doctrines which is so much cryed down in our day and which is the wonder and shame of all by some sons of our Church who have subscribed it Tim. I must confess I have been one of those led by the example of the greater ones rather than by the depth of my own knowledge But surely these men have something to say for themselves is not our Church single in this point Tit. Admit she were yet there are two weighty reasons why they should not desert or oppose her in this First Because she hath the Scripture on her side And Secondly Because they have listed themselves her faithfull votaries by subscription Tim. That is true these are plaguy strong tyes Tit. But withall I say she is not single in this point for the Churches in Helvetia Basil and France believe and hold the same as their publick confessions bear witness yea all the reformed Church Tim. Who then are the enemies
but a little here and there only as it should please you when you come to read them Tim. And as much too I think as reason can expect Tit. Mighty pretty truly read the next and having had your subscription before hand let us now have your intention when you have perused it Article 21. Of the Authority of General Councels Tim. General Councels may not be gathered together without the Commandment and Will of Princes And when they be gathered together forasmuch as they be an Assembly of men whereof all be not governed by the Spirit and Word of God they may err and sometimes have erred even in things pertaining unto God. Wherefore things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor Authority unless it may be declared that they be taken out of holy Scripture Tit. Now what did you think of this at the time of subscription Tim. How could I think any thing of what I never saw read nor heard but now I think 't is sound and good and I own and assent to it though it is like in our time there may be no occasion to make use of it Tit. Then we 'll dismiss it to our Successors and come to the next Article 22. Of Purgatory Tim. The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory Pardons Worshipping and Adoration as well of Images as of Reliques and also Invocation of Saints is a fond thing vainly invented and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture but rather repugnant to the Word of God. Tit. Here I hope your heart shall follow your hand Tim. Ay Sir and more hearts if I had them for all this I stedfastly believe though I am afraid this Faith is going out of fashion Tit. I hope not as long as the Defendor of it lives there is no fear and if Prayers will add to his days he is like to live as long as any that ever sat on his Throne and therefore I hope our Fears will dye before he dyes Tim. Pray God they may and be buried too never to rise more in our Generation or in the Generations after us Tit. Amen Amen And I am joyful to find you so hearty a Protestant I wish they be all such that wear our Livery But what 's the next Article Article 23. Of ministring in the Congregation Tim. It is not lawful for any man to take upon him the Office of Publick preaching or ministring the Sacraments in the Congregation before he be lawfully called and sent to execute the same And those we ought to judge lawfully called and sent which be chosen and called to this work by men who have publick authority given unto them in the Congregation to call and send Ministers into the Lords Vineyard Tit. I suppose we need not stay long here neither Tim. No for I know none but Quakers Lay-elders and such holders forth as the Apostle describes That creep into Houses and lead captive silly women c. but can digest this Article well enough I am sure there is never an Orthodox Divine nay scarce a right Presbyterian but will subscribe to it Tit. Presbyterian yes for Ordination by laying on of hands is a Doctrine they stiffly maintain both in their Sermons and Writings yea and many of them have admitted of Episcopal Ordination rather than run before they were sent Tim. I know they have but for all the rest of the Dissenters they had as lieve Old Ketch should goll them as a Bishop Tit. Why then are the Presbyterians decryed as the great bane and pest in Church and State when at least in respect to others they are men of some orders Tim. O Sir because they are the leading faction Tit. Leading do you call them I am sure they lead the smallest number of any Dissenters this day in the Nation yet unhappy men that they are all that do any ways oppose or undermine the Government either in Church or State are cryed down under that new frightfull and abominable title Presbyterians for my part though I know they are not in infallible yet I cannot but pity them Tim. But I can't what pity a crew of Knaves and Villains Tit. Take heed Tim. for they come nearest the Church of England of any other Dissenters and upon a small abatement could joyn with her which the rest of the Dissenters would not and are they the worse Knaves and Villains for this Tim. Yes much the worse but pray say no more of them for I abhor the very name and cannot hear it repeated with Patience Tit. I would not provoke you too much but I would gladly hear your reasons Tim. That I can't do without thinking of them at least and the very thoughts of them put me into such aâ— heat as utterly confounds my reason Tit. We use to say break my head and shew me a reason but it seems they must be content to be called Knaves Villains and what not without reason Tim. Yes for this once they must and shall and that for this reason because I can't stay now to give my reasons Tit. Are they so very long then Tim. Yes much longer I see than the next Article which I am just going to read Tit. Well Tim. I perceive 't is an hard matter to force reason from you proceed as you will. Article 24. Of speaking in the Congregation in such a Tongue as the people understandeth Tim. It is a thing plainly repugnant to the VVord of God and the custom of the Primitive Church to have publick Prayer in the Church or to minister the Sacraments in a Tongue not understood of the People Tit. There is nothing you can dislike in this Tim. No 't is very Orthodox and according to the Apostles direction 1 Cor. 14. 6. to 19. Tit. So I percieve you have some Scripture at command Tim. Yes but this Text I cannot but remember For at one of the conferences appointed by the right Reverend Father in God the B. of L. where the subject was against Praying c. in an unknown tongue the Dr. that Preached in our division cited this place so often that I shall never forget it Tit. You gives good account how you came to have it so ready at hand proceed to the next Article 25. Of the Sacraments Tim. Sacraments ordained of Christ be not only badges or tokens of Christian mens profession but rather they be certain sure witnesses and effectual signs of grace and Gods good will towards us by the which he doth work invisibly in us and doth not onely quicken but also strengthen and confirm our faith in him There are two Sacraments ordained of Christ our Lord in the Gospel that is to say Baptism and the Supper of the Lord. Those five commonly called Sacraments that is to say Confirmation Penance Orders Matrimony and Extreme Vnction are not to be accounted for Sacraments of the Gospel being such as have grown partly of the corrupt following of the Apostles partly are states of life allowed in the Scriptures but
Canon for the future for I see few of my Brethren do Tit. No if all the Ministers in the Church of England were inspired with your zealous Spirit in this respect the Presentments at the Ecclesiastical Courts might for numbers vie with the late Petitioners to His Majesty and we will give you all the Addressers too into the bargain Tim. I believe you may for doubtless they are a vast number Tit. Consider but some Parishes in and about the City of London in which there are so many thousand at that age and upwards that to take a personal and particular account of them and draw up his Presentment would be work enough for the Minister from one Easter to another Tim. I think he would not have much time for his Study or Ministerial Offices Tit. And I think he would have but little thanks for his pains either from his Parishioners or Diocesan for such Proceedings would gender Confusion And I think Visiting the Sick Catechising the Youth and Informing the Ignorant would be a better improving of Time and a greater Service to our Church than drawing up and making such Presentments And when we must be doing let us present the Debauched and Prophane the Scandalous and notorious Offenders against the Moral Law of God rather than the ignorant Offenders against that Law of Man. Tim. Well now you talk of improving Time pray let us improve ours and proceed we have been long enough here already Tit. I would not weary not over-long detain you for I know you sit upon Thorns therefore go on ART 31. Tim. The Offering of Christ once made is that perfect Redemption Propitiation and Satisfaction for all the Sins of the whole World both Original and Actual and there is none other Satisfaction for Sin but that alone Wherefore the Sacrifices of Masses in the which it was commonly said that the Priest did offer Christ for the quick and the dead to have Remission of Pain or Guilt were blasphemous Fables and dangerous Deceits Tit. This Article destroys the very bulk and life of all the Romish Religion namely the Sacrifice of the Mass 'T is this that promotes the Adoring of the Creature Purgatory and Prayer for the Dead and all those Papal Stratagems whereby his Holinesses Coffers are cramm'd and the Pomp and Grandeur of his whole Body Ecclesiastick is supported and maintained Take away this and their Religion dwindles into nothing the Priests and Jesuits might cobble Shoes Vid. Saul and Samuel p. 22. in reality to get Bread as they sometimes have done here and elsewhere to cover their intended Villanies yea the Pope himself would become as poor as his pretended Predecessor St. Peter Well this gainful and admired Device doth our Church rightly explode as a blasphemous Fable and dangerous Deceit Tim. And doubtless such it is and no better Tit. Then whatever Priest shall subscribe to this Article and afterwards lift up his hands to this Romish Babel without great Repentance is a damned Hypocrite Tim. And cursed beyond the Power of the Popes Absolution or Benediction Tit. I am glad to find you so firm in this and hope you will prove so as to the next which thwarts another Doctrine of the Romanists Tim. What is that Tit. Read it and you will be satisfied ART 32. Tim. Bishops Priests and Deacons are not commanded by Gods Law either to vow the Estate of Single life or to abstain from Marriage Therefore it is lawful for them as for all other Christian Men to marry at their own discretion as they shall judge the same to serve better to Godliness Tit. Now you perceive whereto the Article tends Tim. Yes to reprehend the Doctrine of the Papists which forbids Priests to marry Tit. And I am sure our Church is in the right here having the Scripture on her side Tim. She hath so but she doth not say that Priests by the Word of God are bound to marry or bound not to marry but they may or may not as in prudence or discretion they shall think fit Tit. And as the same shall serve better to Godliness pray put that in too Tim. Admit I do yet I think 't is as great prudence in Priests and as conducive to Godliness not to say more to live unmarried as married Tit. In good time Then here you prefer the Prudence of the Church of Rome to this of our Church You would have done well to have read this Article before you had subscribed it Tim. You will give me leave to speak my thoughts Tit. Most freely good Tim. I know you are a single Person yet but have you vowed perpetual Chastity as the Papists call it Tim. To speak truth I have resolved it Tit. And if you do but believe as the Church of Rome believes in this Point too no doubt but your Resolution or Vow will marvellously promote Godliness Tim. How is that Tit. That nothing can break or violate that Vow but Marriage Tim. I don't understand your meaning Tit. The meaning is a Priest having vowed Chastity may if he will and as oft as he will frequent the publick Stews or keep Concubines or Whores yet be a very chast and honest Man. If a Priest keep an Whore at Board and at Bed and use her constantly as if she were his Wife he is not therefore Irregular but if he marry her or an honester Woman all the World cannot excuse him for though such Whoredom never disables a Priest yet chaste Marriage utterly spoils him Now doth not this tend mightily to Godliness Yea they make Whoredom so small a matter in a Religious Man that they tell us For a Monk or a Friar to lay aside his Habit is a Crime by which he incurs Excommunication but if he lay aside his Habit that he may commit Fornication the more expeditely without the Incumbrances which his Monkish Weeds would give him in the Act they declare him upon that account freed from Censure And so common is this Vice among them that Cassander a moderate Papist saith There is scarce an hundred amongst all their Priests that abstain from Women Popish Coelebacy therefore is a great promoter of Piety is it not Tim. 'T is but some few that are so wicked Tit. 'T is a Leprosie that runs from Head to Foot in the Ecclesiastical Romish Body The very Popes themselves as Holy and Infallible as they are have generally had a Finger in the Pye as it were easie to shew if time would permit but for brevity sake read but a few ancient Sentences written of some of them and then give me your thoughts As that of Pope Paul the Second Anxia testiculos Pauli ne Roma requiras Filia huic nata est haec docet esse marem Of Pope Innocent the Eighth Bis quatuor nocens genuit puellulos Totidem sed nocens genuit puellulas O Roma possis hunc meritò dicere Patrem Of Pope Alexander the Sixth Non spado Alexander fuerat Lucretia nempe