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A10399	Tvventy nine lectures of the Church very necessary for the consolation and support of Gods Church, especially in these times: wherein is handled, first, in generall concerning first, the name; secondly, the titles; thirdly, the nature, fourthly, the diuision of the true Church: secondly, of the visible Church ... and lastly, the application of it to all Churches in the world so farre as they are knowne to vs. By that learned and faithfull preacher, Master Iohn Randall, Batchelor of Diuinity, pastor of Saint Andrewes Hubbart in little Eastcheape, London, and sometimes fellow of Lincolne Colledge in Oxford. Published by the coppie perfected and giuen by the author in his life time; carefully preserued and adorned with notes in the margent, by the late faithfull minister of Christ, Master William Holbrooke.	Randall, John, 1570-1622.; Holbrooke, William.	1631 (1631)	STC 20683; ESTC S115641	423,199	550

proportion in like cases Christ himselfe when hee came to teach saluation spake nothing but from the father Iohn 12.49 50. and whatsoeuer the Spirit doth teach hee receiued it from Christ Iohn 16.13 If Christ doe tye himselfe to teach those things and nothing but those things hee receiued from the Father and the Spirit nothing but those things he receiued from Christ then I hope the Church hath not greater liberty in respect of the Scripture then Christ in respect of his Father and the Spirit in respect of Christ Therefore as Christ spake nothing besides that hee heard of his Father and the Spirit nothing but that hee receiued from Christ so by proportion the Church is to speake nothing in matters of saluation besides Scripture Reas 6 Sixthly the Church is to do nothing heerein but by direction and assistance from the Spirit and as it is horrible presumption to say the contrary so the Papists themselues sometimes ingenuously confesse that the Testimony o● the truth consists in the holy Ghost and the Prelates iointly so that it is not in the Church alone without the Spirit And what doth the Spirit teach the Church any new Doctrines or Reuelations No but that which Christ hath reuealed before If ye compare Iohn 14.26 with Iohn 16.13 14 15. you shall finde that the holy Ghost whom Christ promiseth to send shall teach all things that Christ hath taught which be●ng the same which is in the Scripture then the Spirit teacheth the Church nothing besides Scripture And so the Church is able to decree nothing besides the Scripture because shee is able to doe nothing without the Spirit Lastly when things are decreed by the Church are Reas 7 we to receiue them hand ouer head or vpon tryall and examination If ye say ha●d ou●r head without examination that were a gracelesse speech and vtterly vnlawfull being against the rules of the Word 1 Thess 5.21 Trye all things 1 Iohn 4.1 Trye the Spirits If then they must be receiued vpon tryall and Examination how must they be tryed and by what rule Eyther by the Iudgement of the present Church or by the Scripture If ye say by the Church that were to make her Iudge in her owne cause then it must bee examined by the Scripture as the men of Berea did Paules Doctrine Act 17.11 they searched the Scriptures daily whether the things were so as he taught So the things the Church decrees must bee tryed by Scripture and if that cannot approue them as being not there found they are to be reiected and the authority of the Church in imposing them to be disclaimed So we see in reason that the Church hath no power nor authority to decree anything or matter of substance in Religion ●yth 〈◊〉 faith o● for obedience without or besides Scrip●●● The ●irst vs● 〈…〉 of reproofe of sundry Popish practises and positions not to name all For indeede if this point be well vnderstood it razeth and ouer throweth the very foundation of Popery Here then we see first that the Church cannot coyne any new Articles of faith why is any man so gracelesse to doe so yes the Papists doe so And howsoeuer many of them will not seeme to fauour it in word yet their practise makes them guilty of it Pope Pius the fourth propounds a Creede and tyes his children the Papists to it wherein after hee had set downe the twelue articles contained in the Nicene Creede he addeth twelue more of his owne concerning traditions Purgatory c. And these hee will haue acknowledged and vndoubtedly beleeued as the former and is not this to coyne new articles of faith Ob. But say they why may not we doe so as well as you that haue your articles of Religion and all reformed Churches haue their seuerall confessions wherein there are many things besides those in the Creede and yet professed and beleeued Answ as well as they I Answer It is not a like comparison for we though we doe beleeue many things that are not in the Creede yet wee beleeue nothing besides Scripture and that which is soundly proued by Scripture is to be beleeued as well as that in the Creede But theirs are such for the most part as haue little or no shew of Scripture for them but are matters besides Scriptures which they obtrude on the people meerely or at least principally by the authority of the Church But hath the Church then no authority about Articles of Faith newly to be made I Answer No But onely as thus if any article hath beene neglected obscured and layen hidden in former times the places of Scripture whereon it is grounded being not well vnderstood then the Church hath power to declare and publish it vpon the better vnderstanding of such places as it is proued by And this is not to make new articles of faith but to reuiue and renew those that were before and that not beside the word but with and by the word This may be cleared by an Instance The article of Iustification by Faith had lyen hidden for many yeeres before Christ came but when Christ and his Apostles came they reuiued it and yet made no new article of it but the same that was taught from the beginning of the world to come neerer home After that this doctrine was againe obscured lay hid for many yeeres till it pleased God to raise vp Luther and others which brought it forth to that cleare light that it was in in the Apostles times And is this to make new articles No but to reuiue and to bring to light that which had lyen hid a long time And thus far the Church may goe and no further The second Position is this that the Church cannot make any booke to be Canonicall Scripture which is not so of it selfe For this is to ordaine and decree matters of substance in Religion besides Scripture But do the Papists doe this yes they doe and therefore are here to bee reproued for it as being vtterly vnlawfull for them so to doe For first the number of Canonicall bookes are certaine as themselues confesse and therefore no authority can admit more Secondly if the Church hath power to make bookes that are Apocrypha Canonicall then also shee hath power aswell to reiect some that are Canonicall for hee that hath power to build hath also power to destroy And what were this but for the Church to mayme and mangle the Booke of God as shee list her selfe what an horrible wrong were this to God Thirdly the sheepe of Christ heare his voice they doe not make or frame it Lastly as a Gold smith takes a peece of gold and tries it whether it bee right or counterfeit by the touch stone and before he finds it to be true Gold he doth not make it true Gold for if he finde it to be counterfeit all the Gold smiths that are cannot make it true so must the Church cry which are Canonicall

it is holy thirdly that it is Catholike so it is said in expresse words Fourthly that they are ioyned to Christ And fiftly that they haue a Communion amongst themselues both these are intended where it is said they are a Communion of Saints sixtly and lastly that they are knowne onely to God and themselues and this is intended when it is said I beleeue it Wee haue past through two of these adiuncts for so I call them first that the Church is one and secondly that it is holy now we are to come to the third Adiunct Catholike The Church of God is Catholike In handling of this Point wee will first shew how this word Catholike hath been wronged secondly wee will right it and thirdly we will draw such obseruations from thence as it will fitly minister First it hath been much wronged for many hundred yeeres and that by many First by those in the Romish Church Secondly by some of our owne Church First it hath been wronged and corrupted exceedingly by those of the Romish Church and that in these respects first in that they falsly challenge it and appropriate it to themselues alone Secondly in that they boast of it as their Crowne and glory Thirdly in that they put their confidence in it that because they haue this name therefore they are vndoubtedly the true Church and in certaine state of saluation First the word is wronged in that they of the Romish Church do falsly challeng and appropriate it to themselues as if their Church were Catholike and none else and as if their faith were Catholike and none other and as if they were the onely Catholikes and none but they If they were Catholikes as they pretend to bee yet they might giue others leaue to be called so as well as they but they are not so onely the name of Catholikes is falsely arrogated to themselues and flatteringly yeelded vnto them by their friends and fellowes but indeed and in Truth they are no Catholikes at all Secondly it is wronged by them in that they boast and vaunt themselues of it as their Crowne and glory and they take it in great snuffe if they be not so called yea if you call them Papists or such other like name I know it by experience they wil be ready to fly in your face Surely it is a glory to those of whom it is truly affirmed yet it is not in that case to be boasted of but quietly and soberly to be inioyed Gods best graces in vs are not vainely to be boasted of much lesse any outward names which are but cast vpon vs least of all such as we take vpon our selues without desert Thirdly they wrong it in that they put much confidence in this name that because they are so called therefore saith Bristow and the Rhemists wee are the vndoubtedly true Church in certaine state of saluation for this is one of the Pillars of Popery the very names of the Church and Catholike they are the two pillars that Popery builds vpon But it is to be considered that the name makes not the man to be such as he is called but on the contrary because a man is such an one as the name imports therefore hee is so called As for example A Father or a Master is not such an one because he is so called but because hee is a Father or a Master therefore he is called so Therefore we must first examine our selues whether we are such as the name imports and then we may haue Comfort in our States whether we bee so named or not if the name be vpon vs without cause we are nothing the neerer to saluation If it be on vs vpon good cause then we may haue comfort in our state not for the name but because we are such as the name signifies so that the name is no way any matter of confidence to build our saluation on In the second place it is somewhat wronged by some amongst vs too not that wee either mistake it as the Papists doe nor maligne it as they say we doe but occasionally by their errour on the one side wee run into another on the otherside because they aduance it too high we debase it too low First some labouring to suppresse the name quite as certaine Lutherans that haue changed Catholike in the Creed into Christian Secondly others scoffing at it as a toy and a Iest Thirdly others that in the heate of their spirits and pregnancy of their wit doe depraue it and make a nickname of it cacolicke cartholike but these are distempered spirits not seasoned with grace and modesty as it were to bee wished Fourthly and lastly generally all of vs little regarding it nor hauing it in that good request as it well deserues It is true that the name of Christian is farre more ancient and proper and more warrantable as we may see in Act. 11.26 they of the Church of Antioch were first called Christians yet let not this name be supprest for to be called Catholikes hath been a matter of long continuance and vnderstanding it for the members of the Catholike Church it is a reuerent and an honourable stile Thus we see how this name hath been wronged first by them of the Romish Church secondly by some amongst vs. Now secondly we are to right the Word and restore it to the originall sense that so we may frame vs to a reuerent and sober estimation of it and neither esteeme of it too much nor too little and to this end first therefore wee will consider of the antiquitie of the Word secondly wee will shew the right meaning of it and thirdly the common receiued vse of it First consider the antiquitie of it this word is not found in any of the bookes of Scripture onely it is found in the preface of the Epistles of Iames Peter Iohn and Iude there they are called Catholike Epistles which is a Greeke word and signifies generall which prefaces whether they bee Scripture or not is vncertaine they may bee so and they may not yet certaine it is that the name is very ancient But come to the Creed and there this word is plainely found and that as an adiunct of the Church I cannot say that it was the Apostles owne doing but surely it was very neere to the Apostles times So likewise it is found in the Nicene Creed and also in Athanasius Creed and there hee applies it to the Faith The Faith professed by the Catholike Church is the Catholike Faith So wee see that the word is very ancient Secondly to right it we are to consider the right meaning of the word Catholike which is generall or vniuersall for so the Ancients expound the Prefaces to the generall Epistle of Peter and the generall Epistle of Iames as directed not to any particular Nation or Citie as Paul did his Epistle to the Romanes but generally and vniuersally to all the faithfull or to

to the word and the Spirit There must be a perswasion in vs that the Word is of God else there is no profit by it 1 Thessa 2.3.2 Peter 1.19 20. 2 Tim. 3.16 And therefore still the Preface of the Prophets is Verbum Domini And so much shall seue to be spoken concerning the authority of the Scripture The foure and twentieth LECTVRE of the CHVRCH COncerning the power of the Church yee haue heard how it extends it selfe to persons and things for so we diuided it for our more easier proceeding in the point that which concernes persons wee haue already spoken of And that which concernes the thing wherein the Church hath power wee haue entred into and shewed that they are of two sorts eyther matters of circumstance or matters of substance The Churches power in matters of substance are eyther in matters touching Scripture or besides Scripture touching Scripture and that I shewed was of two sorts eyther touching the authoritie of Scripture or the sense of Scripture Of the authority of Scripture we spake in the last Lecture Now wee are to speake of the sense of Scripture which wee shall be the longer in handling because looke what was wanting in the former point shall be here supplyed Touching this point what authority the Church hath in the sense of Scripture it is as materiall and as difficult a point as the former First as materiall for after we are made acquainted which the letter of Scripture so that we know which are Canonicall bookes written by the Infallible direction of the Holy Ghost and that euery thing contained in them is the vndoubted truth of God wee are still as far to seeke in matters of faith as before till we proceed further and be acquainted with the sense and meaning of Scripture for the Word of God is not so much the letter as the sense and the Scripture is not so much the bare written word as the right meaning and vnderstanding of that which is written That what a man saith is his speech indeed in common acceptation But yet if it bee not taken in the sense hee meanes it he will and may iustly disclaime as none of his speech A mans meaning is contained in his words as the things signified in the signe because words are the signification of our meaning but the subiect of them wherein it properly rests and is seated is the breast of the speaker So the Word of God is in the Scripture as the signe whereby God signifies his meaning but the subiect of them wherein properly the meaning of them restes is in God himselfe so that this is a materiall point to be knowne Secondly it is as difficult a point as the former for after we heare which is the right letter of Scripture it is as difficult to know which is the right sense as before it was to know which was the right letter for the same words sometimes haue diuers significations and one and the same sentence may be vnderstood many wayes and diuers men are of diuers minds expounding one and the same Scripture diuers wayes euery man abounding in his owne sense the true beleeuer expounding it to the maintenance of the true Catholique faith the Heretique to the maintainance of his Heresie Yea among and true beleeuers themselues one interprets the same words to that opinion that he fauours and another to a contrary that he fauours What is to be done in this case The Church is here thrust vpon vs as the onely or chiefest vmpyre in these differences and that alone to be the true sense which shee pronounceth And surely I see not but that the Church may as probably and plausibly challenge authority to deliuer which is the meaning of Scripture as which is the letter of Scripture We haue giuen the Church her due touching the former acknowledging her authority in and about the letter of Scripture but not ouer or aboue it and so God willing we will deale as ingenurously in this concerning the sense of Scripture But yet we will limit and bound it within certaine necessary cautions and limitations And that we may doe so we will handle it by way of Obseruation The Obseruation is this Doct. That howsoeuer the Church hath great authority in expounding Scripture yet she must not expound it as shee list and according to her owne minde but according to Gods minde and the meaning of the Scripture it selfe But say some the Church will not nor cannot expound them Ob. but according to Gods minde and therefore this is a needlesse Obseruation I Answer It is true that the Catholique Church that is Answer the whole company of the faithfull cannot do otherwise But particul●r visible Churches may and oft times haue expounded Scripture to their owne minde and not according to Gods minde And therefore it is reason that they should bee thus bounded and limited we will proceed then to the proofes of the obseruation And first I will prooue it by rules And secondly by examples The rules in the Scripture are plaine for this note and that first in generall Esay 8.20 To the law to the Testimony c. whosoeuer is the speaker and whatsoeuer he speakes in matters of God and of Religion and therefore specially in expounding Scripture it must be according to the law and the testimony that is according to the meaning that God intendeth therein and so in the 1 Peter 4.11 the Apostle saith Let him that speakes speake as the words of God that is in Gods sense As in generall all must thus speake Gods Word so specially the Preacher or whosoeuer that takes vpon him to expound Gods Word he must speake it as the Word of God that is not onely for the manner of it reuerently and zealously as becomes the Word of God but for the matter much more that is in the same sense that God himselfe hath spoken it as hee being then in Gods stead and deliuering his message else he speakes his owne words not Gods Secondly more particularly Iohn 5 39. Search the Scripture saith our Sauiour he doth not bide them take the Scriptures and reade them and giue what sense of them they thinke good But he bids them search them that is examine them and consider aduisedly of them lay them rightly together weigh one place wel with another and make diligent inquiry after the sense reach that God intends in them And so we shall find that they are first witnesses of Christ and then that they are helpes to eternall life See it yet more neerely Rom. 12.6 Let vs prophesie according to the proportion of faith saith the Apostle whereby prophecy is expresly meant interpretation of Scripture for so it is taken in the 1 Cor. 14.3.31 and that is to be framed according to the proportion or Analogy of faith which whether it be meant of faith contained in the Creede or of the measure of faith that God hath endued vs with all yet still

They are mingled with the professors of Mahomet which is a most pestilent Religion directly opposite to the Christian faith admitting no colour of Reconciliation but if we beleeue in Christ we must reiect Mahomet and if we beleeue in Mahomet we must reiect Christ And yet the Lord I say hath shewed himselfe a Ruler in the midst of his sorest enemies preseruing his faith and Church euen whe●e Satans throne is as he did the church of of Pergamus Reu. 2.13 secondly as it is a Pestilent Religion directly opposite to Christ so consider that it generally abounds and swarmes ouerspreading a great part of the knowne world and yet in these places the Lord hath reserued a remnant that sticke close vnto him and that follow not the sway of the world as he had 7000. in Israel in the daies of Elias that had not bowed their knees to Baall Rom. 11.4 so hee hath many thousands among them that haue not bowed the knee to Mahomet Thirdly consider the pleasingnesse of that Religion of Mahomet a great inchanter of nature yet still the Lord hath preserued some that chose rather with Moses to suffer aduersity with the children of God then to inioy for a season all the pleasure that euer Mahomet could euer promise or bestow vpon them Surely we must needs acknowledge it to be a heauy iudgement of God that such flourishing Churches in Achaia Macedonia Corinth Ephesus c. should come to that miserable ruine and desolation that Mahomet should raigne amongst them so generally in Christs own Territories and let vs know that it was for their vnprofitablenes in the vse of the Gospell and other meanes of grace which God so freely offered them and let vs consider of it and feare and labour to profit by the Gospell and pray to God that the like befall not vs for our vnprofitablenesse This I say is a great iudgement of God vpon them and yet withall see how in wrath God remembers mercy and in despight of Satan Turke and Mahomet and other instruments hee plucks out some as firebrands out of the fire to be professors of his sauing faith and members of his Church and the gates of hell shall not preuaile against them And so much of the Greeke Churches both improperly and properly so called Now wee come to the Westerne and Latin Churches which are generally of two sorts some acknowledging the Pope their head as the Church of Rome it selfe and sundry others that hold communion with that Church both in Doctrine and in all or most of the corruptions thereof others renouncing his headship and refusing to communicate in the deformities corruptions and abuses of the church of Rome being therefore called the reformed Churches I shall not neede to speake of the former in euery particular looke what is said of the Church of Rome it selfe the same may be applyed to all the rest as is the mother so is the daughter Ezech. 16.44 We will deliuer her state in two obseruation First we will shew what may be said in charity and yet in truth and sound iudgement for the church of Rome Secondly what may be said in zeale and yet in truth too and found iudgement against it For the first the obseruation is this Doctr. 1 That the Church of Rome euen as now it stands may in some sense be iustly reputed and acknowledged a true visible Church consider rightly of the Note First wee doe not absolutely say it is a true Church but for ought wee see it may in some sense be iudged a true visible Church Secondly wee say not a sound Church no that wee flatly deny as vntrue but a true visible Church as a man though hee be wounded fainting and dying yet so long as there is any sparke of life in him hee is a true liuing man not a false though he be an vnsound and dying man Thirdly we make a difference betwixt the Papacy or the Popish fact●on and some better spirits in that Church which no doubt haue a righter beliefe and walke with a righter foote in the profession of the Gospell then the faction doth and these being mingled together with the rest the whole may be called a ●●ue Church for their sakes as was in our Sauiors time the Scribes and Pharises were a faction in the Church pretending Religion and the true worship of God and yet swaying all against the truth and sincerity of it in their courses Mary Simeon Anna Zachary and Elizabeth and a few more with whom our Sauiour ioyned or rather they with him as liuing member of Gods Church and should not the whole be rightly acknowledged to be a true Church because of them Doubtlesse it may and so the church of Rome may rightly be acknowledged to be a true Church in respect of some better spirits that are mixed with them and not in respect of the Papacy and Popish faction alone The reasons to proue them a true Church are these first Reas 1 they haue beene a true Church of God directly affirming euery part of the foundation and they doe not directly deny any part of it yea in outward shew of words they expressely affirme it still and therefore may truely be acknowledged a true Church That they haue beene a true Church of God is plaine enough Rom. 1.8 But yee will say that is no sound arguement that they are so still I answer that yet this is to be considered for it is a great matter that must make a congregation that hath beene a true Church to become a false one and with more charity and loue are such to be censured that are in the state of Apostacy then other congregations holding the same errors that are but onely comming on in the saith and haue not yet beene throughly possest of the true being of a Church The Church of Ephesus was fallen away from her first loue Reuel 2.5 And the Church of Sardy had a name that she loued and yet was deade Reu. 3 1. And yet God calls them true Churches still A Church in Apostacy that is falling not vtterly fallen is still a true though an vnsound and dying Church hauing been a true Church and not directly ouerthrowing the foundation so long it may be still intituled a true Church well then the church of Rome hauing bin a true church it must appeare that they in outward shew at least affirme the whole foundation and euery part thereof but this they doe they affirme the whole foundation at least in outward shew and sound of words they professe the same Scriptures and the same Creed that we do yea they professe in words the very same foundation before spoken of in the very same termes in effect Looke into the Rhemists Testament you shall see that vpon those places 1 Tim. 2.5 1 Iohn 1.7 they acknowledge Iesus Christ to be the onely Sauiour of the world and therfore they may in some sense be rightly acknowledged

vnto vs the sufficiency Scrip● Thirdly such as forbid any addition to or detraction from the Scripture Fourthly such as condemne all Doctrine taught either without or besides the Scripture Rhemists 15 Acts ● The Papists say the church may coyne new articles of faith What authority the Church hath about articles of Faith Hyper 6● Hyper 54. Secondly that the Church make any booke to bee Canonicall Scripture Which the Papists hould this confuted by diuers reasons Thirdly that the Church hath power to deuise adde diminish or alter any part of Gods worship which the Church of Rome hath done prooued by diuerse things Fourthly concerning customes The fathers iudgement concerning customes Fifthly concerning traditions How and in what sense tradition is to bee receiued Answers to the Popish tenent concerning tradititions Answer 1. Ob. Answer wherin is shewed that the Baptisme of Infants the change of the Sabbath and that so many bookes are Canonicall Scripture and are not had by tradition but proued by good consequence out of the Scripture Answ 2. Answ 3. Their proofe out of 2 Thes 2.15 Answe Answ 4. The scripture the so onely rule of saith acknowledged to bee by all Churches generally Secondly the Scripture is the onely tryall of euery truth How euery matter of substance is to be found in the Scripture Concerning Churches power in matters of circumstance and they are of two sortes one of miracles and what is to be helde concerning the same Secondly of discipline and this is of two sorts either matter of d●scipline which is spoken of before or secondly matter of ceremonies and what the church hath power to doe therein The bounds the Church is to keepe in ordaining matters of ceremony 1. 2. Vse 2. 1. The ninth generall point concerning the Church viz. the application of all that hath bin spoken to all visible Churches in christendome that I know of The generall diuision of all churches that haue beene or are since our Sauiours time into Easterne and Westērne and this according to their sc●tuation Secondly according to their language and so some be greek and some latin Churches VVhether Schismaticall or hereticall Churches may be accounted true visible Churches What a Schismatike church is Hereticall Churches First what they are and when any particular man is to be reputed an Heretike Heresies of 2. sorts first such as ouerthrow the foundation What this fundation is Resol Those that deny directly this foundation or any part thereof cease to bee Christians and are no more visible Churcher The Greeke Churches be here spoken of and what weare to thinke of them 1. of the Greeke Churches generally disperse in most at the Easterne parts of the world Ortelius 100. Ortelius 97. 98. 108. Secondly the Greeke Churches which are more particularly and properly so called and what we are to hold of them deliuered in an obseruation Doct. The mayne error of the Greeke Churches The Greeke Churches better then the Popish-Church The Papists vnchatarible censuring the Greeke Churches answered The Greeke Churches not gu●lty of Schisme from Rome The Greeke Churches neuer subiect to the Romane Church One note of the Church as the Papists account it is found in the Greeke Church viz succession of Bishops The goodnes of God in perseruing of his Churches seene in the Greeke Churches vnder the Turke The miseries of the Greeke Church vnder the Turke in many particulars in regard of their persecutions in regard of the Religion of the Turks The Religion of the Turks 1. a pestilent Religion directly opposite to Christ 2. It ouerspreadeth a great part of the knowne world 3. It is a pleasing Religion For what it was that the Lord suffered such famous Churches to come to ruine applied to vs. The Western churches and first of those that acknowledge the Pope their head as the Church of Rome and those that hold with her and what ma● be said and held of her deliuered in two obseruations The church of Rome as now it standeth may in some sense be reputed a true visible Church A differen●e betweene the papacy or the pop●sh ●action and some better spirits amongst them in regard of whom the whole may be called a true Church The popish church doth not directly deny any part of the fundation but in outward shew of words affirme it The church of Rome hath beene a true Church The Papists by their Doctrine of iustification by workes must ouerthrow the foundation they by this ouer throw Christ not directly but by consequence Quest Answ It is not so great a sin to deny Christ directly as by consequence yet hee that doth this deserueth to be cut off from Gods mercy The Church of Rome compared with the Church of Israel 2. with the Church of the Iewes in our Sauiours times With the Church of Galatia Circumcision doth as neerely by consequence cut off from Christ as iustification by workes with the of Church Sardis Baptisme a true Sacrament in Rome and rightly administred there for the substance of it Those that were Baptised in the Church of Rome were lawfully Baptised Ob 1. Answ Ob. 2. Answ The ordinati of our Ministers from the Church of Rome and yet a lawfull ordination The question where the Church was before Luthers time answered The inconuenience preuented by acknowledging that the Church of Rome may be accounted a true Church What to thinke of our fathers that liued in the Popish Church They of the Popish Chu●ch are to ●e ●ud●ed rather mis-beleeuers then vnbeleeuers The 2. Obseruation wherein is further delired what may be sayd and held further of the church of Rome The Church of Rome so corrupt that it is not lawfull to ioyne with her This that is spoken against thee is in respect of the Pope and Popish factors Corruption of the Church of Rome reduced to 2. sorts 1. matter of Doctrine reduced to 1. part of the Doctrine Foure heads 1 concerning Scriptures And their error therein Three things 1 denying the sufficiency of the Scripture 2 Per●erting the truth of the Scripture 3 Disanulling the author●ty and credit of the Scripture many wayes 1 teaching the apochrypha●l bookes to be canonicall Scripture Secondly equalling traditions of men with the written word of God Thirdly preferring the authority of the Church aboue the Scripture Two heads wherein they orre in matter of Doctrine viz concerning the direct offices of the Mediator The Papists say there bee many mediators betwixt God and man The distinction of mediators of intercession and redemption answered Two things in a Mediator To be mediator of intercession is peculiar to Christ as well as to be mediator of redemption The popish sh●ft off praying to the Saints not as helpers but as intercessor Answered The popish reason for praying to the Saints departed drawn from our desi●ing the Saints on earth to pray for vs Answered The third head wherein the church of Rome erreth in doctrine and that is concerning Images The church of Rome an abominable whore deseruing