Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	apostolical_a	faith_n	tradition_n	2,256	5	9.3848	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20361	A true report of all the doynges at the assembly co[n]cernyng matters of religion, lately holden at Poyssy in Fraunce. Written in Latine by Mayster Nicholas Gallasius, minister of the Frenche Churche in London, and then present, [and] one of the disputers in the same, translated into English, by I. D.... Seen and allowed accordyng to the order appoynted by the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions; True report of all the doynges at the assembly concernyng matters of religion, lately holden at Poyssy in Fraunce.	Des Gallars, Nicolas, ca. 1520-ca. 1580.	1561 (1561)	STC 6776; ESTC S110901	50,348	138

for the layīg on of hāds but to proue himself an apostle he did not so much cite his miracles of the which he had great store as y● fruite of his preachyng the cōuersiō of those people whō the lord had turned at his calling For writing to the Corinthiās he saith You are the seale of my apostleship in that lord Cor. ix Thesame truely say of so gret a nūber as by our preching haue receued the gospel agaīst al the power of mā nether seke we any other cōfirmatiō of our calling ministery For the power vertue of god hath sufficiētly shewed it self forasmuch as nether prysō fier banishmēt nor death could stay yesame But quoth Spēsa shew me but euē one example wtin these .xv. C. yeares like to your case Although quoth Beza al hystories are not writtē yet I donbie not but there may be foūd som But if ther be none it is no incōuenience to say that god in our daies hath done y● which he neuer did afore Afterwards we cam to traditiōs which Spēsa made equal with that scripture ●…ātus preferred aboue it as more certain thā it But to the place of Paul which reuoketh vs to y● scripturs Spēsa āswerd that Paul speketh generally of doctrine Which forth w e was āswered not of vs only but of an other singularly wel learned mā which was there presēt that it is writē ther 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Moreouer we said it was new strāge that Xātus wold haue the traditiōs more certain thā the scripture for y● by reasō of many interpretatiōs may be vncertayne For what foūdatiō shal our faith haue if we doubt of it neither is it therefore incertain bicause many times mē misapply it mangle it abuse it For the truthe abides alway one which though it be somtymes darkned yet continueth her force euen to the last Neither bicause heretikes abuse it ought we therefore the lesse to fly to it What wrōg he doth vs in cōparing of Anabaptistes other diuelish sectes our writings wel testify They admit onely som part of the Scriptures We accept allow the whole they credit new reuelations We say that suche thynges are out of place sithe Christe hath manifested al things fully vnto vs. As to the place of Tertulliā wherof ●…antus warned Beza twice or thrice to read it I quoth Beza haue read it more than xx tymes am so well assured that you shall finde it as I saye as I perfectly know that you shal neuer finde in Chrisostom that which you in his name haue falsely alleged But do not deny that Tertullian did manye tymes passe his bondes Neuerthelesse if we cōsider towhat ende he spake it you shal perceiue how lightly this which you thynke to make so much with you shal be answered For this was his purpose that we should not in vaine reason with heretikes As Paule coūsaileth vs after the first or seconde admonition to leaue them But what maner of heretikes were those Suche as beig conuicted of their heresy by the worde of god tryfled in vayne What were the traditions whiche he layde against them Such as are conteyned in the writinges of the Apostles and pertayn to the chiefe articles of our fayth and which the whole church professed Fyrst therfore we should haue ben cōuicted by the same worde that if we be in any erroure we might thereby bee withdrawen from it But to bee confuted by tradition whiche is neither Apostolical nor yet grounded on their writings that truely is asmuch as to opē the gate to all deceite and vtterly to ouerturne the certaintye of oure faith But why doth Tertullian himself vpbrayde the heretikes saying Let them beleue the scriptures if they can do it beleuig agaynst the scriptures except we ought to flye to them and by them confute all errors If these rytes whyche at thys daye our aduersaries haue brought in were Apostolike the churche would alwayes haue vsed them Neither should they haue had so late beginning Now forasmuche as the authors of them are wel knowē described in histories certainly it cannot be said that they came first frō the Apostles Falsly also is the name of traditions refrained to those things which are deliuered frō hande to hande in as muche as this woorde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is referred euē to those things that are writen Tertulliā refuteth those that taught that the apostles had not sufficiently instructed vs in al things that thei might leaue a place for new traditiōs as things reuealed by the holy gost Thei are wōt to say quoth he that the apostles knew al but neuertheles put not al in writing In both pointes blaming christ as though he had either insufficiētly instructed his apostles or els had chosē such simple mē as were not able to vtter their mindes in writing For what sober mā would beleue that the apostles wer ignorāt in any thing whō the lord appointed as maisters ▪ c. To the Apostles therfore we must fly whō christ sēt to preach But how shall we be assured of their doctrine but by their wrytings Was not vnctiō geuē vnto thē for this cause that they might deliuer and write vnto vs al things necessarye for our saluatiō not to leaue vs douting or vncertain And herby is that place of Chrisostom easily discussed which was earst aleged where he saith that Christ left nothing in writing to his apostles Wuld he therfore that thei shuld write nothing No sure But therfore he taught them therfore he reueled it vnto them by his spirit that the same doctrine once written might remain for euer But thei taught som●…things which are not cōtained in their writings Neither that truely do we deny But we saie that there is nothing pertaining to our saluation Whyche they haue not left in writing other thiges which cōcerne rites ciuill dyscypline they might easily teach by worde of mouth But because yesame chaunge according to time place they woulde not bu●… then our consciences therwith As to the obiection of the names of vnbegotten consubstātiality trinity baptisme of children although the playne names wordes be not in the scriptures yet the thinges themselues that is to wit the sence and grounde Whereof the names are gathered is playnelye expressed and shewed in the scripture These thinges were long debated and sometymes the talke interrupted Xantus spake muche and affirmed a great while that the virginitie of Mary after her deliuerance coulde not bee proued by the scriptures Neither yet that yong children ought to be baptised Neuerthelesse bothe were proued by the authoritie of the scripture But he ceassed not to bable after the maner of the Sorbonistes as though he shoulde wynne the victorie with triflyng and talking His talke litle liked so honorable anaudience as it that was full of bitternes sharpenesse and stomake Our men in the meane tune modestly stayd themselues And albeit manye of our aduersaries spake at once confusedly

Church is it which is euery where knowen and of all mē To the authority of y● church he sayd al interpretation of Scriptures and making of traditions ought to bee referred Saying that the succession as well of that Church as of the pastours therof was perpetual but of the Lordes Supper he so entreated the touching nothing at al of the chaūge of the natures of the elements he came very nye to their opinion which ioyne the body bloud of Christ with the elementes And say that they be both vnder them and in them Which afterwardes we vnderstode was done for a polecy partly to procure their fauoure whom he had so kindly clawed and partly to make vs the more hatefull to them Neither yet did he plainly agree with them but shewed that in thys respect he did willingly ioyne with them that they myghte ioyntly warre against vs. The ende of his oration was to this effect That the kyng and his counsell leauing our opinion should folow the steppes of theyr for fathers and not leaue their accustomed vsage When he had ended we desired that presently whiles the memory therof was yet fresh we might satisfye his obiections and refute his argumētes For we feared least after thys the Cardinals answere we should scarcely haue leasure or liberty afterwardes to speake Bicause the day afore many bragged that we shuld loke for nothing els thā condemnation the thūderbolt of excomunication Neyther wer we ignorant therof The Queene taking the aduise of her coūcel cōmaunded vs to depart saying that we should answere it an other tyme that she would appoint vs a day whē we shuld be presēt again And surely meruaile had it ben if the byshops which wer of that coūcel would haue geuē any other councel The next day againe we desired that we might be presētly heard and the tyme no longer prolōged But we could obtayne nothing neither wer we heard before the eight day In the meane time false rumors were spred abrode that we wer ouercome put to silēce had nothyng to say Whereas we were ready to haue answered their oration presently And how false such tales be here by men may sufficiently gesse that the Bishops did what they could to breake of the cōference so that at the last by their importunity they obteined of the Queene that the matter shuld not be opēly heard afore the king but in a more secret place afore few Therfore it was deferred til the .xxiiii. day of that moneth at the whiche cōmaunded to returne to Poyssye we came before the Quene the king Queen of Nauarre the rest of the Lordes and counsallours there were present also ●… Cardinalles and many Byshops and diuynes of al sortes we the mynisters were admitted only to the number of xij Those being seuered which wer sēt frō other Churches which afore were ioyned with vs. For now the matter was heard both in narower place in lesse companye than before the Cardynals of lorayne shewed in few wordes that this assemblye was to this end that if we would obiecte any thing agaynst that which he had sayde eyght dayes before we might freely speake shuld be herd Then Beza in the name of vs al said That he would haue wished that immediatlye he might haue aunswered the Cardynalls oration whyles the same was fresh in memorye or at the least that he might haue had som copye therof that he might aūswere certaynly perfectly to euery poynt but forasmuch as he coulde not obtayne that he woulde aunswere so much as he coulde call to mynde Fyrste there fore as concerning the article of the Churche which the Cardinall fyrste handled he deuided it into thre partes First what it is Then what are the marks therof Thirdly what and how great is the authoritie therof It is wel knowē quoth he that this name Ecclesia which signifieth the church is deriued from the Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifyeth to call frō on place to another Of calling we find .ii. sorts in the scriptures the one cōioyned with the working of the holy ghost wherof Paul to the Romains writeth whom he called them he iustified Rom. viii c. xxviii The other althoughe in outward shew It be al one with the first yet is altogether vnprofitable to saluation And that only through the fault of man beyng deaffe at the calling of God Of this calling spake the Lorde when he sayde That many wer called but fewe chosē Mat. xxii b. xiiii Hereof it happens that the name of the church which signifyeth the congregacion of those that are assembled by the word of god is taken .ii. wayes For generally it contayneth al those which outwardly professe to folowe the calling of god Neyther is it to be doubted but manye hypocrites and reprobate persons are within this nūber Neither we thanks be to god therefore haue at any tyme Either written or taught otherwise for asmuch as both the scripture and also common experience doth plainly proue the same but takyng this name of the churche proprely and streyghtlye as manye tymes we doe we then say that it comprehendeth onlye the electe and chosen of god And that al men may know that we be not the authours of this maner of speache or of this doctrine when it is written that the church is the body of Christ bones of his bones fleshe of his fleshe yea when the name of Christ it selfe is geuen vnto it Eph. ii g. xxx as Paule wrytyng to the Corinthians ioyning the members with the heade calleth her Christ i. Cor. xii b. xii xvii how could in the number be contayned the reprobate in as muche as they are the members of the deuill For it cannot bee that we shoulde be members bothe of Christ and of the deuil which Austine writyng agaynste Cresconius well noteth in his seconde booke and xxiiii Chapter He also writyng on the .lxiiii. psalme vsed this distinction of the churche saying y● that church whiche is signifyed by Ierusalē toke her begynnyng of Abel and Babilon of Eain And afterwardes in his fyrst booke of baptysme agaynst the Donatistes the seconde Chapter wheras he taketh the name of the church more largely he saieth that he that begot Abell Enoch Noe Abraham the reste of the Prophetes begot also Cayn Ismaell Dathan and suche lyke Therefore to conclude we muste take that whiche Austine hymselfe wrote in the seuenth boke of the same booke the. 51. chapter whiche is also rehearsed .xxiiii. ix i. a. ca. All thyngs consydred it is said that there are two kynde of men in the churche Some of them sayeth he bee the members of Christe and of the house of God yea the house of GOD it self Other some bee in the house but not of the house For they bee as chaffe with the corne tyll suche tyme as they bee seuered Hereof ryseth a questyon whether the Churche bee inuisible Whiche I thynke good to affyrme and

neither if any manne should ryse from death would they beleue him Or howe did they which had the writings of the Apostles onely when neyther bookes nor commentaries were written of thesame But whereas my Lord Cardinall woulde haue that taken for an Apostolike tradition whiche hathe bene receiued of the church at al times in all places and of al men I see not howe these iii. pointes maie be proued For how great diuersitie shal we find in the bookes of auncient fathers yea and euen in the verye articles of oure faith If these wordes should be weyed at all tymes and of all men wher shall we beginn but at the Apostolike church Who shall be firste in order but onely the Apostles Whose liues and doings are partly faithfully written by Luke and partly gathered out of their owne writinges To be shorte we returne at the last to the first foundatiō of the scriptures sith all truthe came from god who cōmaunded the prophets and Apostles to bee interpreters messengers of oure saluation In the meane time we dooe not reiecte the councels of the fathers as farre as they be confirmed with the testimonies of the holye scripture For them as Austine sayeth the holy●… ghost hath so tempered that it which●… in some place is obscurely spoken in some other is expressed more plainlye and more at large And that rule chiefly amonges others he geueth whereb●… we may vnderstande the scriptures i●… that booke whiche he wrote of christia●… doctrine yet there remaineth som●… doubt in this question Some mē hau●… thought that the will of God in these thinges whiche pertaine to oure saluation is not fullye declared in those writinges whiche the Prophetes and Apostles haue lefte vnto vs. Whiche doubte if it should take any place what a gap wer ther opened to all mischefe And certes this was the breache by the which Sathan first pearced into the vine yard of the lord to destroy it God truely before the tune of Moyses with visiōs reuelatiōs directed his church in like maner yeapostles before thei put theyr doctrine in writīg taught yesame by worde of mouth But because the nūber of men encreasing their noughtynesse encreased also the lorde would y● this doctrine shoulde bee contayned in writinges and monumentes Whiche might be vnderstoode and perceiued of al men why so that he might confoūd the impudence and rashnesse of suche as wil set foorth cloke their dreames with the name of tradition reuelation and custome But if the doctrine of god be written onely in some part to what purpose is this remedy Truely it can not be so Iohn spake of the scriptures when he sayeth that those things which are written are written to that ende that we beleuing them may haue life euerlasting Iohn xx ●… ●…xi whiche he had falslye sayde yf thei themselues had concealed any doctrine necessary to life and saluation But Paule when he declareth the vse of scripture vnder the person of Tymothe teacheth all ministers yf anye thing should haue ben added to the scriptures wuld not haue affirmed that by them the man of god is made perfecte i. Timo. ii d. xvi Neither do we denye but y● at all times there haue ben somtraditions of the apostles which be not written But those were suche as pertained to the ciuil order of the churche But forasmuche as many men haue abused this name this great while I thinke good to shewe what traditions ought to bee counted Apostolike Whiche shall not be hard yf in iudgyng and discernyng them we vse the markes For fyrst we must consyder whether they doe agree with the doctryne of the woorde and then whether they bee apte and meete to edify●… For it is certayne that the Apostles dyd neuer institute any rites and ordinaunces whiche eyther directly or els in anye parte were contrarye to theyr owne doctryne or myghte withdrawe menne from spirituall worshippyng whereof theyr owne wrytynges beare sufficiente recorde If thys rule be obserued bothe doctrine shall easilye be discerned frō traditions also false traditions frō the true Neyther are you ignorant how foolishe Tertullian iudgeth their opinions which think that the apostles haue ouerpassed an●…thīg necessary to saluatiō which ether by word of mouth or writīgs thei haue not taught but we will adde more hereto Namely that those things which herein the Apostles decreed were not continuall Truelye their instytutions passe all exception yet neuerthelesse by the rule of charitye they yelded somewhat to the weaknes of men As when the eating of suffocatorū and bloud was forbid the Iewes Also those thynges which Paule himselfe taught and obserued in Timothe and his own persō Ac. 15. f. 25. Act. 16. a. ● i Co. 16. d. xxix i Co. 11. a 7 Which now truly shuld haue no place but by the generall rule of charitye whereby we are willed in things indifferēt to apply our selues to our neighbours Other such like may be gathered of their rytes as of kissing vncouering the head which was the signe of authority and other such lyke whiche at this daye are contrarye to y● customes of many nations amōg whō it would seme most folish the men should kisse the one the other to talke with the heade vncouered is commonly a signe of y● lowest state and condicion These thinges therefore ought to be considered before anye custome be thought Apostolyke Also no man must grounde vppon the authority of the Apostles to trouble the church As it hapned in the cōtrouersye of the daye in the which Easter should be kept whiche bred miserable deuision and euē in the Apostles tyme by those that did abuse the authoritie of the churche at Ierusalē to myngle Iewishnesse wyth Christian religion Of whom it is writen in the Actes of the Apostles where it was decreed by a councell that no man should lay that yoke on mennes cōsciēces Wherby it may easely be perceiued that the Apostles could not be the authoures of so many ceremonies to the which afterwardes Satisfaction merites and remission of sinnes wer attributed For they taught far otherwise And so much they dissented from makyng newe ceremonies that they gaue no place to those of Moses lawe of the whiche God was the author Of thys yoke of traditions obseruances Austine long since writing to Ianuarius much cōplained if he had liued in our tyme how would he haue lamented thē Wherfore to be shorte we desyre that the Scripture whiche herein is playne maye iudge good traditions frō euil holy from prophane profitable frō hurtful necessarye frō superfluous When of these articles we are once agreed this question shall easily be dissolued whether the authoritie of the church be greater thā of the woorde of god which certes is no lesse fonde than if a man should doubte whether the sōn ought to be aboue his father the wife aboue her husbande or man aboue god And sure neuer the true church or any godly mā woulde moue such