sacrament_n which_o belong_v to_o practice_v or_o manner_n and_o yet_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o decalogue_n there_o be_v many_o sin_n even_o against_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o light_n of_o reason_n which_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o ten_o commandment_n except_o only_o by_o similitude_n analogy_n reduction_n or_o some_o such_o way_n for_o example_n we_o find_v not_o express_v in_o the_o decalogue_n either_o diverse_a sin_n as_o gluttony_n drunkenness_n pride_n sloth_n covetousness_n in_o desire_v either_o thing_n superfluous_a or_o with_o too_o much_o greediness_n or_o diverse_a of_o our_o chief_a obligation_n as_o obedience_n to_o prince_n and_o all_o superior_n not_o only_o ecclesiastical_a but_o also_o civil_a who_o law_n luther_n melancthon_n caluin_n and_o some_o other_o protestant_n do_v dangerous_o affirm_v not_o to_o oblige_v in_o conscience_n and_o yet_o these_o man_n think_v they_o know_v the_o ten_o commandment_n as_o likewise_o diverse_a protestant_n defend_v usury_n to_o be_v lawful_a and_o the_o many_o treatise_n of_o civilians_n canonist_n and_o casuist_n be_v witness_n that_o diverse_a sin_n against_o the_o light_n of_o reason_n and_o law_n of_o nature_n be_v not_o distinct_o express_v in_o the_o ten_o commandment_n although_o when_o by_o other_o diligence_n they_o be_v find_v to_o be_v unlawful_a they_o may_v be_v reduce_v to_o some_o of_o the_o commandment_n and_o yet_o not_o so_o evident_o and_o particular_o but_o that_o diverse_a do_v it_o in_o diverse_a manner_n 12._o my_o three_o observation_n be_v that_o our_o present_a question_n be_v whether_o or_o no_o the_o creed_n contain_v so_o full_o all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n that_o whosoever_o do_v not_o agree_v in_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o those_o fundamental_a article_n can_v have_v the_o same_o substance_n of_o faith_n nor_o hope_v of_o salvation_n if_o i_o can_v produce_v one_o or_o more_o point_n not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n in_o which_o if_o then_o do_v not_o agree_v both_o of_o they_o can_v expect_v to_o be_v save_v i_o shall_v have_v perform_v as_o much_o as_o i_o intend_v and_o d._n potter_n must_v seek_v out_o some_o other_o catalogue_n for_o point_n fundamental_a than_o the_o creed_n neither_o be_v it_o material_a to_o the_o say_a purpose_n whether_o such_o fundamental_a point_n rest_v only_o in_o knowledge_n and_o speculation_n or_o belief_n or_o else_o be_v further_o refer_v to_o work_v and_o practice_v for_o the_o habit_n or_o virtue_n of_o faith_n which_o incline_v and_o enable_v we_o to_o believe_v both_o speculative_a and_o practical_a verity_n be_v of_o one_o and_o the_o self_n same_o nature_n and_o essence_n for_o example_n by_o the_o same_o faith_n whereby_o i_o speculative_o believe_v there_o be_v a_o god_n i_o likewise_o believe_v that_o he_o be_v to_o be_v adore_v serve_v and_o love_v which_o belong_v to_o practice_v the_o reason_n be_v because_o the_o formal_a object_n or_o motive_n for_o which_o i_o 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that_o protestant_n make_v the_o due_a administration_n of_o they_o to_o be_v necessary_a &_o essential_a to_o constitute_v a_o church_n answer_v that_o the_o sacrament_n be_v to_o be_v 235._o be_v pag._n 235._o reckon_v rather_o among_o the_o agenda_fw-la of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o credenda_fw-la they_o be_v rather_o divine_a rite_n &_o ceremony_n than_o doctrine_n he_o either_o grant_n what_o we_o affirm_v or_o in_o effect_n say_v of_o two_o kind_n of_o reveal_v truth_n which_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v the_o creed_n contain_v one_o sort_n only_o ergo_fw-la it_o contain_v all_o kind_n of_o reveal_v truth_n necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v our_o question_n be_v not_o de_fw-fr nomine_fw-la but_o re_fw-la not_o what_o be_v call_v point_n of_o faith_n or_o of_o practice_n but_o what_o point_v indeed_o be_v necessary_o to_o be_v believe_v whether_o they_o be_v term_v agenda_fw-la or_o credenda_fw-la especial_o the_o chief_a part_n of_o christian_a perfection_n consist_v 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of_o they_o be_v fundamental_a which_o not_o that_o so_o every_o man_n may_v know_v whether_o he_o be_v not_o in_o some_o damnable_a error_n for_o some_o article_n of_o faith_n which_o further_o may_v give_v influence_n into_o damnable_a work_n 14._o these_o observation_n be_v premise_v i_o come_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o creed_n do_v not_o contain_v all_o point_n of_o faith_n necessary_a to_o be_v know_v &_o believe_v and_o to_o omit_v that_o in_o general_a it_o do_v not_o tell_v we_o what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a or_o not_o fundamental_a which_o in_o the_o way_n of_o protestant_n be_v most_o necessary_a to_o be_v know_v in_o particular_a there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o great_a evil_n from_o which_o man_n calamity_n proceed_v i_o mean_v the_o sin_n of_o the_o angel_n of_o auam_fw-la and_o of_o original_a sin_n in_o we_o not_o of_o the_o great_a good_a from_o which_o we_o expect_v all_o good_a to_o wit_n the_o necessity_n of_o grace_n for_o all_o work_n tend_v to_o piety_n 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confutation_n can_v there_o be_v then_o by_o your_o own_o word_n the_o believer_n see_v for_o if_o he_o see_v how_o do_v he_o believe_v or_o if_o he_o believe_v how_o do_v he_o see_v especial_o since_o you_o say_v he_o believe_v and_o see_v upon_o the_o same_o formal_a object_n or_o motive_n yet_o that_o scripture_n be_v know_v by_o itself_o you_o prove_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n who_o saych_a that_o the_o scripture_n 2._o scripture_n de_fw-fr verb._n deilib_n 1._o çap._n 2._o which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a write_n be_v most_o certain_a and_o divine_a scripture_n itself_o witness_v but_o these_o word_n will_v prove_v to_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o bellarmine_n in_o that_o place_n dispute_v against_o the_o swenckfeldian_a heretic_n who_o deny_v all_o scripture_n say_v that_o he_o do_v not_o allege_v ibid._n allege_v ibid._n testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o if_o he_o think_v that_o his_o adversary_n make_v any_o great_a account_n of_o they_o 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say_n that_o we_o yield_v to_o the_o church_n a_o absolute_a 144.145_o absolute_a pag._n 144.145_o unlimited_a authority_n to_o propound_v what_o she_o please_v and_o a_o unlimited_a power_n to_o supply_v the_o defect_n of_o scripture_n i_o let_v pass_v as_o mere_a slander_n as_o also_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v absolute_a not_o 144._o not_o pag._n 144._o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o on_o which_o the_o scripture_n itself_o depend_v and_o you_o can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o that_o which_o have_v be_v so_o often_o inculcate_v by_o catholic_a writer_n that_o the_o scripture_n in_o themselves_o do_v not_o depend_v on_o the_o church_n but_o only_o in_o respect_n of_o we_o who_o learno_fw-la from_o she_o what_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o be_v to_o say_v not_o the_o scripture_n but_o our_o weak_a understanding_n and_o knowledge_n of_o scripture_n rely_v on_o the_o church_n which_o our_o saviour_n christ_n command_v we_o to_o hear_v and_o yourself_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n 142.143_o church_n pag._n 142.143_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n to_o our_o faith_n you_o will_v not_o deny_v that_o your_o knowledge_n of_o the_o trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n depend_v on_o scripture_n will_v you_o thence_o in_o fer_fw-fr that_o the_o bless_a trinity_n incarnation_n etc._n etc._n in_o themselves_o depend_v on_o scripture_n as_o if_o god_n have_v not_o be_v god_n unless_o scripture_n have_v be_v write_v beside_o to_o such_o as_o believe_v scripture_n we_o may_v prove_v the_o church_n herself_o by_o scripture_n and_o she_o in_o all_o her_o definition_n do_v consult_v examine_v and_o submit_v herself_o to_o scripture_n against_o which_o she_o never_o do_v nor_o ever_o can_v define_v any_o thing_n &_o in_o this_o sense_n also_o she_o depend_v on_o scripture_n but_o to_o make_v good_a your_o slander_n you_o 144._o you_o pag._n 144._o cite_v bellarmine_n after_o your_o wont_a fashion_n if_o we_o take_v away_o testimonium_fw-la away_o de_fw-fr effect_n sacram._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 25._o §_o tertium_fw-la testimonium_fw-la the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o rome_n this_o of_o rome_n be_v your_o addition_n and_o of_o the_o trent-councell_n the_o decree_n of_o all_o other_o ancient_a counsel_n and_o the_o whole_a christian_a faith_n may_v be_v question_v as_o doubtful_a for_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n and_o of_o all_o counsel_n depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o present_a church_n will_v not_o one_o think_v by_o these_o word_n that_o the_o strength_n of_o all_o doctrine_n depend_v on_o the_o church_n whereas_o bellarmine_n only_o say_v that_o we_o can_v not_o infallible_o know_v that_o there_o be_v such_o general_n counsel_n and_o that_o they_o be_v law_n full_a counsel_n and_o that_o they_o define_v this_o or_o that_o but_o because_o the_o present_a church_n which_o can_v err_v do_v so_o believe_v and_o teach_v us._n which_o word_n demonstrate_v that_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o faith_n or_o doctrine_n in_o themselves_o but_o in_o respect_n of_o us._n and_o do_v not_o you_o yourself_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v the_o church_n which_o direct_v we_o to_o scripture_n and_o that_o she_o likewise_o be_v the_o ordinary_a outward_a mean_n to_o present_v and_o propound_v divine_a verity_n without_o which_o propesition_n no_o object_n can_v be_v convey_v to_o our_o 142.143_o our_o pag._n 142.143_o faith_n and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o to_o acknowledge_v that_o in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n without_o the_o guidance_n direction_n and_o proposition_n of_o the_o church_n we_o have_v no_o faith_n at_o all_o 11._o you_o likewise_o cite_v these_o word_n out_o of_o est_fw-la of_o de_fw-fr eccles_n mil._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 10_o §._o ad_fw-la haec_fw-la necesse_fw-la est_fw-la bellarmine_n the_o scripture_n tradition_n and_o all_o doctrine_n whatsoever_o depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n 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well_o may_v you_o take_v they_o upon_o the_o
consequence_n because_o if_o once_o we_o doubt_v of_o one_o book_n receive_v for_o canonical_a the_o whole_a canon_n be_v make_v doubtful_a and_o uncertain_a and_o therefore_o the_o infallibility_n of_o scripture_n must_v be_v universal_a and_o not_o confine_v within_o compass_n of_o point_n fundamental_a 15._o i_o answer_v for_o the_o thing_n itself_o it_o be_v very_o true_a that_o if_o i_o doubt_v of_o any_o one_o parcel_n of_o scripture_n receive_v for_o such_o i_o may_v doubt_v of_o all_o and_o thence_o by_o the_o same_o parity_n i_o infer_v that_o if_o we_o do_v doubt_n of_o the_o church_n infallibility_n in_o some_o point_n we_o can_v not_o believe_v she_o in_o any_o one_o and_o consequent_o not_o in_o propound_v canonical_a book_n or_o any_o other_o point_v fundamental_a or_o not_o fundamental_a which_o thing_n be_v most_o absurd_a and_o withal_o most_o impious_a we_o must_v take_v away_o the_o ground_n thereof_o &_o believe_v that_o she_o can_v err_v in_o any_o point_n great_a or_o small_a and_o so_o this_o reply_n do_v much_o more_o strengthen_v what_o we_o intend_v to_o prove_v yet_o i_o add_v that_o protestant_n can_v make_v use_n of_o this_o reply_n with_o any_o good_a coherence_n to_o this_o their_o distinction_n and_o some_o other_o doctrine_n which_o they_o defend_v for_o if_o d._n potter_n can_v tell_v what_o point_v in_o particular_a be_v fundamental_a as_o in_o his_o 7._o sect._n he_o pretend_v than_o he_o may_v be_v sure_a that_o whensoever_o he_o meet_v with_o such_o point_n in_o scripture_n in_o they_o it_o be_v infallible_o true_a although_o it_o may_v err_v in_o other_o &_o not_o only_o true_a but_o clear_a because_o protestant_n teach_v that_o in_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n the_o scripture_n be_v so_o clear_a that_o all_o such_o necessary_a truth_n be_v either_o manifest_o contain_v therein_o or_o may_v be_v clear_o deduce_v from_o it_o which_o doctrine_n be_v put_v together_o to_o wit_n that_o scripture_n can_v err_v in_o point_n fundamental_a that_o they_o clear_o contain_v all_o such_o point_n and_o that_o they_o can_v tell_v what_o point_v in_o particular_a be_v such_o i_o mean_v fundamental_a it_o be_v manifest_a that_o it_o be_v sussicient_a for_o salvation_n that_o scripture_n be_v infallible_a only_o in_o point_n fundamental_a for_o suppose_v these_o doctrine_n of_o they_o to_o be_v true_a they_o may_v be_v sure_a to_o find_v in_o scripture_n all_o point_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n although_o it_o be_v fallible_a in_o other_o point_n of_o less_o moment_n neither_o will_v they_o be_v able_a to_o avoid_v this_o impiety_n against_o holy_a scripture_n till_o they_o renounce_v their_o other_o doctrine_n and_o in_o particular_a till_o they_o believe_v that_o christ_n promise_n to_o his_o church_n be_v not_o limit_v to_o point_n fundamental_a 16._o beside_o from_o the_o fallibility_n of_o christ_n catholic_a church_n in_o some_o point_n it_o follow_v that_o no_o true_a protestant_n learn_v or_o unlearned_a do_v or_o can_v with_o assurance_n believe_v the_o universal_a church_n in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o doctrine_n not_o in_o point_n of_o lesser_a moment_n which_o they_o call_v not_o fundamental_a because_o they_o believe_v that_o in_o such_o point_v she_o may_v err_v not_o in_o fundamental_n because_o they_o must_v know_v what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a before_o they_o go_v to_o learn_v of_o she_o lest_o other_o wise_a they_o be_v rather_o delude_v then_o instruct_v in_o regard_n that_o her_o certain_a and_o infallible_a direction_n extend_v only_o to_o point_n fundamental_a now_o if_o before_o they_o address_v themselves_o to_o the_o church_n they_o must_v know_v what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a they_o learn_v not_o of_o she_o but_o will_v be_v be_v as_o fit_a to_o teach_v as_o to_o be_v teach_v by_o she_o how_o then_o be_v all_o christian_n so_o often_o so_o serious_o upon_o so_o dreadful_a menace_n by_o father_n scripture_n and_o our_o bless_a saviour_n himself_o counsel_v and_o command_v to_o seek_v to_o hear_v to_o obey_v the_o church_n s._n augustine_n be_v of_o a_o very_a different_a mind_n from_o protestant_n if_o say_v he_o the_o 118._o the_o epist._n 118._o church_n through_o the_o whole_a world_n practice_v any_o of_o these_o thing_n to_o dispute_v whether_o that_o aught_o to_o be_v so_o do_v be_v a_o most_o insolent_a madness_n and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v that_o which_o 24._o which_o lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr bapt._n c._n 24._o the_o whole_a church_n hold_v and_o be_v not_o ordain_v by_o counsel_n but_o have_v always_o be_v keep_v be_v most_o right_o believe_v to_o be_v deliver_v by_o apostolical_a authority_n the_o same_o holy_a father_n teach_v that_o the_o custom_n of_o baptise_v child_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o scripture_n alone_o and_o yet_o that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v believe_v as_o derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n the_o custom_n of_o our_o mother_n the_o 23._o the_o lib._n 10._o de_fw-la genesi_fw-la ad_fw-la litter_n cap._n 23._o church_n say_v he_o in_o baptise_v infant_n be_v in_o no_o wise_a to_o be_v contemn_v nor_o to_o be_v account_v superfluous_a nor_o be_v it_o at_o all_o to_o be_v believe_v unless_o it_o be_v a_o apostolical_a tradition_n and_o elsewhere_o christ_n 18._o christ_n serm._n 54._o de_fw-fr verbis_fw-la apost_n c._n 18._o be_v of_o profit_n to_o child_n baptize_v be_v he_o therefore_o of_o profit_n to_o person_n not_o believe_v but_o god_n forbid_v that_o i_o shall_v say_v infant_n do_v not_o believe_v i_o have_v already_o say_v he_o believe_v in_o another_o who_o sin_v in_o another_o it_o be_v say_v he_o believe_v &_o it_o be_v of_o force_n and_o he_o be_v reckon_v among_o the_o faithful_a that_o be_v baptize_v this_o the_o authority_n of_o our_o mother_n the_o church_n have_v against_o this_o strength_n against_o this_o invincible_a wall_n whosoever_o rush_v shall_v be_v crush_v in_o piece_n to_o this_o argument_n the_o protestant_n in_o the_o conference_n at_o ratisbon_n give_v this_o round_a answer_n nos_fw-la ab_fw-la augustino_n 367._o augustino_n see_v protocoll_n monac_n edit_fw-la 2._o pag._n 367._o hac_fw-la in_o parte_fw-la liberè_fw-la dissentimus_fw-la in_o this_o we_o plain_o disagree_v from_o augustine_n now_o if_o this_o doctrine_n of_o baptise_v infant_n be_v not_o fundamental_a in_o d._n potter_n sense_n then_o according_a to_o s._n augustine_n the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n extend_v to_o point_n not_o fundamental_a but_o if_o on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n then_o according_a to_o the_o same_o holy_a doctor_n we_o must_v rely_v on_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o some_o fundamental_a point_n not_o contain_v in_o scripture_n but_o deliver_v by_o tradition_n the_o like_a argument_n i_o frame_v out_o of_o the_o same_o father_n about_o the_o not_o rebaptise_v of_o those_o who_o be_v baptize_v by_o heretic_n whereof_o he_o excellent_o to_o our_o present_a purpose_n speak_v in_o this_o manner_n we_o follow_v 33._o follow_v lib._n 1._o cont_n crescon_n cap._n 32._o &_o 33._o indeed_o in_o this_o matter_n even_o the_o most_o certain_a authority_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n but_o how_o consider_v his_o word_n although_o very_o there_o be_v bring_v no_o example_n for_o this_o point_n out_o of_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n yet_o even_o in_o this_o point_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o same_o scripture_n be_v hold_v by_o we_o while_o we_o do_v that_o which_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n do_v recommend_v that_o so_o because_o the_o holy_a scripture_n can_v deceive_v we_o whosoever_o be_v afraid_a to_o be_v deceive_v by_o the_o obscurity_n of_o this_o question_n must_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o same_o church_n concern_v it_o which_o without_o any_o ambiguity_n the_o holy_a scripture_n do_v demonstrate_v to_o us._n among_o many_o other_o point_n in_o the_o aforesaid_a word_n we_o be_v to_o observe_v that_o according_a to_o this_o holy_a father_n when_o we_o prove_v some_o point_v not_o particular_o contain_v in_o scripture_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n even_o in_o that_o case_n we_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v say_v to_o believe_v such_o point_n without_o scripture_n because_o scripture_n itself_o recommend_v the_o church_n and_o therefore_o rely_v on_o she_o we_o rely_v on_o scripture_n without_o danger_n of_o be_v deceive_v by_o the_o obscurity_n of_o any_o question_n define_v by_o the_o church_n and_o else_o where_o he_o say_v see_v this_o be_v 19_o be_v de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccles_n c._n 19_o write_v in_o no_o scripture_n we_o must_v believe_v the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n which_o christ_n declare_v to_o speak_v the_o truth_n but_o it_o seem_v d._n potter_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o this_o doctrine_n about_o not_o rebaptise_v such_o as_o be_v baptize_v by_o heretic_n be_v no_o necessary_a point_n of_o faith_n nor_o the_o contrary_a a_o heresy_n wherein_o he_o contradict_v s._n augustine_n from_o who_o we_o have_v now_o
as_o about_o the_o canon_n of_o scripture_n etc._n etc._n as_o also_o between_o protestant_n and_o puritan_n etc._n etc._n and_o i_o can_v put_v you_o in_o mind_n of_o your_o brethren_n who_o teach_v that_o for_o diverse_a age_n the_o visible_a church_n perish_v and_o yet_o s._n augustine_n teach_v that_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o evident_a in_o scripture_n than_o the_o universality_n of_o the_o church_n as_o also_o who_o deny_v that_o bishop_n be_v by_o divine_a institution_n who_o oppose_v your_o whole_a hierarchy_n as_o antichristian_a who_o differ_v from_o you_o in_o the_o form_n of_o ordination_n of_o minister_n all_o which_o be_v fundamental_a point_n but_o i_o will_v refer_v the_o reader_n to_o the_o most_o exact_a brereley_o who_o â—_o who_o tract_n 3._o sect._n 7._o under_o â—_o reckon_v no_o few_o than_o seaventy_n seven_o difference_n among_o you_o punctual_o cite_v the_o book_n and_o page_n where_o you_o may_v find_v they_o and_o yet_o for_o the_o present_a i_o will_v set_v down_o some_o word_n of_o doctor_n willet_n testify_v your_o difference_n from_o this_o fountain_n say_v he_o have_v spring_v 91._o spring_v in_o his_o meditation_n upon_o the_o 122._o psa_fw-la pag._n 91._o forth_o these_o and_o such_o like_a whirlepoint_n and_o bubble_n of_o new_a doctrine_n as_o for_o example_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o mean_n concern_v god_n of_o all_o that_o profitable_o we_o know_v that_o they_o be_v not_o alone_o complete_a to_o everlasting_a felicity_n that_o the_o word_n of_o god_n can_v possible_o assure_v we_o what_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n that_o there_o be_v work_n of_o supererogation_n that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o it_o now_o stand_v be_v the_o family_n of_o christ_n that_o idolater_n and_o wicked_a heretic_n be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n let_v d._n potter_n here_o remember_v what_o himself_o say_v of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o what_o he_o relate_v about_o the_o opinion_n of_o m._n hooker_n and_o m._n morton_n that_o among_o heretic_n there_o may_v be_v a_o true_a church_n that_o there_o be_v in_o ordination_n give_v a_o indelible_a character_n that_o they_o have_v power_n to_o make_v christ_n body_n that_o sacrament_n be_v necessary_a in_o their_o place_n and_o no_o less_o require_v than_o belief_n itself_o that_o the_o soul_n of_o infant_n die_v without_o baptism_n be_v damn_v etc._n etc._n do_v you_o think_v that_o the_o necessity_n of_o baptism_n and_o other_o sacrament_n the_o sufficiency_n of_o sole_a scripture_n which_o your_o english_a clergy_n profess_v at_o their_o ordination_n and_o those_o other_o point_n be_v but_o small_a matter_n but_o beside_o these_o and_o many_o more_o there_o be_v two_o other_o main_a general_a &_o transcendent_a difference_n among_o you_o the_o one_o whether_o you_o do_v not_o differ_v in_o main_a point_n which_o though_o you_o deny_v yet_o other_o affirm_v the_o other_o what_o be_v main_a or_o fundamental_a point_n upon_o which_o two_o difference_n iâ—_n will_v necessary_o follow_v that_o you_o can_v know_v whether_o you_o have_v the_o same_o substance_n of_o faith_n and_o hope_v of_o salvation_n or_o no._n but_o though_o your_o difference_n be_v all_o reduce_v to_o one_o and_o that_o how_o small_a soever_o that_o one_o be_v sufficient_a to_o exclude_v unity_n of_o faith_n among_o you_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o prove_v i_o have_v no_o mind_n to_o spend_v time_n in_o tell_v you_o how_o unschollerlike_a you_o say_v two_o brother_n 87._o brother_n pag._n 87._o in_o their_o choler_n may_v renounce_v each_o other_o and_o disclaim_v their_o amity_n yet_o that_o heat_n can_v dissolve_v their_o inward_a and_o essential_a relation_n for_o when_o a_o man_n brother_n die_v do_v he_o loose_v any_o essential_a relation_n i_o always_o think_v that_o essential_a relation_n be_v inseparable_a from_o the_o essence_n to_o which_o they_o belong_v and_o the_o essence_n from_o they_o and_o a_o man_n who_o still_o remain_v a_o man_n may_v yet_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o brother_n it_o be_v therefore_o no_o essential_a relation_n 24._o i_o grant_v that_o difference_n in_o ceremony_n or_o discipline_n do_v not_o always_o infer_v diversity_n of_o faith_n yet_o when_o one_o part_n condemn_v the_o rite_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o other_o as_o antichristian_a or_o repugnant_a to_o god_n word_n as_o it_o happen_v among_o protestant_n than_o difference_n in_o ceremonte_n redound_v to_o a_o diversity_n in_o faith_n 25._o luther_n temper_v by_o 93._o by_o pag._n 93._o mild_a melancthon_n that_o honour_n of_o germany_n do_v much_o relent_v and_o remit_v of_o his_o rigour_n against_o zwinglius_fw-la and_o begin_v to_o approve_v the_o good_a counsel_n of_o peace_n if_o inconstancy_n concern_v matter_n of_o faith_n be_v mildness_n melancton_n be_v i_o grant_v extreme_o mild_a in_o which_o respect_n he_o be_v note_v even_o by_o protestant_n &_o be_v dislike_v by_o luther_n how_o much_o luther_n relent_v of_o his_o rigour_n against_o zwinglius_fw-la let_v himself_o declare_v in_o these_o word_n which_o you_o can_v not_o but_o read_v in_o charity-mistaken_a i_o have_v now_o one_o of_o my_o foot_n 53._o foot_n pag._n 53._o in_o the_o grave_n will_v carry_v this_o testimony_n and_o glory_n to_o the_o tribunal_n of_o god_n that_o i_o will_v with_o all_o my_o heart_n condemn_v and_o eschew_v carolostadius_fw-la zwinglius_fw-la oecolampadius_n and_o their_o disciple_n nor_o will_v i_o have_v familiarity_n with_o any_o of_o they_o either_o by_o letter_n writing_z word_n nor_o deed_n according_o as_o the_o lord_n have_v command_v if_o in_o polonia_n the_o follower_n of_o luther_n and_o caluin_n have_v long_o live_v together_o in_o concord_n as_o you_o will_v have_v we_o believe_v the_o thing_n be_v real_o not_o true_a they_o must_v thank_v the_o good_a catholic_a king_n under_o who_o they_o live_v who_o be_v able_a and_o apt_a to_o punish_v when_o there_o be_v great_a excess_n but_o if_o they_o have_v the_o reins_n in_o their_o own_o hand_n what_o great_a concord_n can_v be_v hope_v for_o among_o they_o in_o that_o kingdom_n then_o be_v find_v in_o other_o place_n where_o they_o have_v more_o power_n in_o polonia_n there_o be_v many_o arian_n and_o trinitarian_n who_o live_v in_o outward_a concord_n with_o the_o rest_n but_o will_v you_o acknowledge_v they_o for_o brethren_n to_o lutheran_n caluinist_n and_o yourself_o the_o answer_n will_v be_v hardly_o make_v if_o you_o stick_v to_o your_o own_o ground_n and_o i_o may_v well_o pass_v on_o to_o the_o rest_n chap._n four_o your_o very_a beginning_n promise_v small_a sincerity_n in_o that_o which_o follow_v for_o you_o make_v charity-mistaken_a say_v that_o protestant_n be_v heretic_n at_o the_o jest_n if_o not_o infidel_n whereas_o he_o only_o say_v &_o substantial_o prove_v that_o whosoever_o do_v disbelieve_v any_o one_o article_n of_o faith_n do_v not_o assent_v to_o all_o the_o rest_n by_o divine_a infallible_a faith_n but_o by_o a_o humane_a persuasion_n which_o be_v a_o point_n of_o great_a consideration_n and_o of_o which_o it_o seem_v you_o be_v very_o loath_a to_o speak_v 2._o you_o take_v much_o pain_n to_o prove_v what_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v for_o it_o make_v nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n whether_o or_o no_o the_o proposition_n of_o the_o church_n belong_v to_o the_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n as_o heretofore_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o nor_o do_v we_o deny_v scripture_n to_o contain_v all_o mat_n of_o faith_n if_o it_o be_v right_o understand_v because_o scripture_n among_o other_o verity_n do_v also_o recommend_v unto_o we_o the_o church_n &_o divine_a tradition_n though_o they_o be_v unwritten_a and_o you_o egregious_o falsify_v 1._o falsify_v pag._n 99_o edit_fw-la 1._o bellarmine_n as_o if_o he_o exclude_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n whereas_o in_o the_o place_n by_o you_o cite_v de_fw-la verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 1._o c._n 2._o he_o only_o speak_v against_o the_o private_a spirit_n and_o 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a_o proposition_n be_v not_o the_o fide_fw-la unless_o it_o be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n whatsoever_o god_n 145._o god_n pag._n 145._o reveal_v in_o the_o scripture_n be_v true_a but_o this_o or_o that_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v true_a if_o matter_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n as_o this_o reason_n suppose_v than_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o church_n can_v make_v any_o unwritten_a verity_n to_o become_v matter_n of_o faith_n yet_o to_o salve_v the_o sovereign_a power_n of_o his_o church_n he_o make_v all_o the_o strength_n and_o truth_n in_o this_o syllogism_n to_o depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o consequence_n the_o truth_n of_o the_o conclusion_n which_o ever_o resemble_v the_o weak_a premisse_a so_o as_o if_o this_o be_v true_a there_o be_v no_o truth_n in_o the_o scripture_n or_o in_o our_o religion_n without_o the_o attestation_n of_o the_o church_n but_o now_o how_o many_o 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but_o in_o some_o sort_n the_o word_n of_o god_n that_o be_v utter_v by_o the_o assistance_n and_o direction_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n nay_o i_o say_v that_o the_o heretic_n be_v those_o who_o indeed_o lean_a on_o a_o rot_a staff_n and_o then_o he_o come_v to_o the_o word_n which_o you_o cite_v for_o we_o must_v know_v that_o a_o proposition_n of_o faith_n be_v conclude_v in_o this_o syllogism_n whatsoever_o god_n have_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n be_v true_a god_n have_v reveal_v this_o in_o scripture_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v true_a of_o the_o premise_n in_o this_o syllogism_n the_o first_o be_v most_o certain_a among_o all_o the_o second_o be_v most_o firm_a or_o certain_a among_o catholic_n for_o it_o rely_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n council_n or_o pope_n here_o you_o break_v off_o but_o bellarmine_n add_v of_o which_o we_o have_v in_o holy_a scripture_n manifest_a promise_n that_o they_o can_v err_v act._n 15._o it_o have_v seem_v to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n &_o to_o we_o and_o luke_n 22._o i_o have_v pray_v for_o thou_o that_o thy_o faith_n may_v not_o fail_v but_o among_o heretic_n it_o do_v rely_v only_o upon_o conjecture_n or_o the_o judgement_n of_o one_o own_o spirit_n which_o for_o the_o most_o part_n seem_v good_a and_o be_v ill_a and_o since_o the_o conclusion_n follow_v the_o weak_a part_n it_o necessary_o follow_v that_o the_o whole_a faith_n of_o heretic_n be_v but_o conjectural_a and_o uncertain_a thus_o far_o bellarmine_n and_o now_o wherein_o i_o pray_v you_o consist_v his_o contradict_v both_o himself_o and_o his_o fellow_n perhaps_o you_o mean_v because_o here_o he_o teach_v that_o every_o proposition_n of_o faith_n must_v be_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o contradict_v his_o other_o doctrine_n that_o beside_o scripture_n there_o be_v unwritten_a tradition_n but_o the_o vanity_n of_o this_o objection_n will_v by_o and_o by_o appear_v among_o your_o other_o corruption_n which_o now_o i_o set_v down_o first_o you_o 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no_o unwritten_a tradition_n a_o goodly_a contradiction_n three_o where_o do_v bellarmine_n ever_o teach_v that_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o church_n can_v make_v any_o unwritten_a verity_n to_o become_v matter_n of_o faith_n as_o you_o speak_v the_o church_n do_v not_o make_v verity_n to_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n but_o only_o declare_v they_o to_o be_v such_o four_o you_o leave_v out_o the_o word_n which_o clear_o explicate_v in_o what_o sense_n the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v humane_a or_o divine_a by_o which_o your_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o faith_n have_v be_v answer_v and_o your_o fallacy_n discover_v fifih_o bellarmine_n never_o affirm_v as_o you_o say_v he_o do_v that_o the_o strength_n and_o truth_n of_o the_o minor_a in_o the_o say_a syllogism_n depend_v on_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o that_o it_o be_v most_o certain_a among_o 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she_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o error_n eight_o you_o return_v to_o the_o slander_n that_o if_o bellarmine_n doctrine_n be_v true_a there_o be_v no_o truth_n in_o the_o scripture_n or_o in_o our_o religion_n without_o the_o attestation_n of_o the_o church_n as_o if_o bellarmine_n have_v teach_v that_o the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n and_o of_o all_o christian_a religion_n depend_v on_o the_o attestation_n of_o the_o church_n which_o can_v not_o in_o you_o proceed_v from_o ignorance_n but_o from_o a_o purpose_n to_o deceive_v your_o reader_n for_o bellarmine_n in_o that_o very_a place_n which_o you_o cite_v declare_v himself_o so_o full_o and_o clear_o that_o you_o can_v be_v excuse_v from_o wilful_a slander_n i_o will_v put_v down_o the_o place_n at_o large_a that_o hereafter_o you_o and_o your_o brethren_n may_v either_o cease_v to_o make_v the_o same_o objection_n or_o else_o endeavour_v to_o confute_v the_o cardinal_n answer_n bellarmine_n then_o make_v this_o objection_n against_o 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the_o one_o be_v by_o you_o cite_v deliver_v his_o opinion_n in_o the_o person_n of_o his_o disciple_n to_o be_v direct_o for_o the_o infallible_a authority_n of_o counsel_n so_o as_o here_o be_v a_o double_a corruption_n the_o one_o the_o cite_n word_n for_o his_o opinion_n which_o be_v not_o so_o the_o other_o the_o conceal_v those_o which_o be_v his_o and_o direct_o to_o the_o contrary_a clemangis_n his_o work_n be_v forbid_v that_o work_n of_o cusanus_fw-la which_o you_o cathol_n you_o concord_n cathol_n cite_v he_o afterward_o retract_v panormitanus_fw-la in_o the_o place_n electione_n place_n in_o cap._n significasti_fw-la extra_fw-la de_fw-fr electione_n cite_v by_o you_o may_v seem_v to_o speak_v of_o counsel_n disagree_v from_o the_o pope_n and_o though_o he_o say_v that_o if_o the_o council_n err_v it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v err_v because_o the_o faith_n may_v remain_v in_o other_o yet_o that_o do_v not_o convince_v that_o he_o hold_v a_o 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be_v that_o neither_o be_v allege_v by_o he_o as_o his_o own_o doctrine_n but_o as_o the_o opinion_n of_o other_o as_o i_o say_v which_o he_o expresl_o say_v that_o he_o do_v forbear_v to_o discuss_v for_o the_o present_a content_v himself_o only_a with_o these_o three_o conclusion_n which_o express_v his_o own_o opinion_n first_o that_o always_o there_o be_v some_o church_n which_o be_v rule_v by_o the_o law_n of_o christ_n which_o according_a to_o his_o former_a explication_n be_v as_o much_o as_o to_o say_v that_o there_o be_v always_o some_o church_n which_o can_v err_v the_o second_o that_o it_o be_v not_o convince_v out_o of_o scripture_n that_o any_o particular_a church_n be_v in_o such_o manner_n conform_v to_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n law_n the_o three_o be_v that_o it_o be_v convince_v out_o of_o scripture_n that_o always_o there_o be_v some_o universal_a church_n which_o never_o swerve_v from_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n neither_o will_v it_o advantage_v you_o that_o he_o 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do_v not_o err_v but_o this_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o that_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n may_v err_v i_o shall_v scarce_o have_v believe_v it_o to_o be_v possible_a for_o any_o man_n alive_a who_o pretend_v to_o have_v credit_n &_o common_a fame_n to_o pervert_v the_o sense_n of_o this_o author_n as_o you_o do_v unless_o i_o do_v see_v with_o my_o own_o eye_n both_o what_o you_o write_v and_o indeed_o what_o canus_n affirm_v for_o in_o the_o chapter_n next_o precedent_n conâ—lusio_fw-la precedent_n cap._n 4._o §._o tertia_fw-la conâ—lusio_fw-la to_o that_o which_o you_o cite_v he_o have_v affirm_v that_o a_o general_n council_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n make_v a_o thing_n certain_a and_o belong_v to_o faith_n in_o respect_n of_o we_o ád_v that_o this_o conclusion_n be_v so_o certain_a that_o the_o contrary_n be_v heretical_a which_o he_o prove_v by_o diverse_a good_a convince_a reason_n and_o among_o the_o rest_n that_o if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v err_v there_o 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and_o meaning_n &_o bring_v the_o objection_n for_o his_o answer_n and_o beside_o what_o we_o have_v already_o relate_v out_o of_o he_o within_o five_o line_n after_o the_o word_n cite_v by_o you_o he_o say_v the_o council_n will_v be_v infallible_a if_o it_o be_v confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n i_o leave_v it_o to_o your_o own_o consideration_n what_o judgement_n even_o you_o will_v frame_v of_o any_o other_o beside_o yourself_o if_o he_o shall_v cite_v author_n in_o this_o manner_n 22._o you_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o be_v so_o much_o offend_v that_o we_o equal_a divine_a unwritten_a tradition_n with_o the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n for_o we_o have_v so_o reverend_a a_o opinion_n of_o god_n word_n as_o that_o whersoever_o we_o find_v it_o our_o faith_n believe_v it_o to_o be_v most_o infallible_a nor_o can_v we_o believe_v that_o pen_n ink_n and_o paper_n can_v add_v any_o certainty_n to_o the_o truth_n thereof_o without_o cause_n also_o you_o accuse_v the_o roman_a church_n of_o supine_n negligence_n because_o she_o have_v not_o as_o yet_o give_v a_o catalogue_n of_o unwritten_a tradition_n as_o well_o as_o of_o all_o the_o book_n of_o scripture_n for_o you_o may_v also_o condemn_v the_o ancient_a church_n which_o do_v not_o for_o diverse_a age_n deliver_v any_o catalogue_n of_o canonical_a book_n which_o yet_o afterward_o she_o do_v as_o occasion_v require_v and_o as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n by_o reason_n of_o your_o heresy_n whereby_o you_o deny_v diverse_a canonical_a book_n of_o scripture_n set_v down_o a_o perfect_a canon_n of_o scripture_n so_o as_o just_a &_o necessary_a occasion_n may_v require_v the_o holy_a ghost_n by_o which_o she_o be_v direct_v will_v not_o fail_v to_o assist_v she_o in_o make_v a_o catalogue_n of_o unwritten_a tradition_n i_o can_v find_v but_o that_o your_o modern_a brethren_n will_v glad_o admit_v of_o some_o apostolical_a tradition_n against_o the_o puritan_n and_o why_o then_o do_v you_o not_o make_v a_o catalogue_n of_o they_o as_o you_o have_v do_v of_o the_o book_n of_o scripture_n your_o famous_a archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n say_v for_o so_o much_o as_o the_o original_a 351_o original_a m._n witgift_n in_o his_o his_o defence_n etc._n etc._n pag._n 351_o &_o beginning_n of_o these_o name_n metropolitan_a archbishop_n etc._n etc._n such_o be_v their_o antiquity_n can_v be_v find_v so_o far_o as_o i_o have_v read_v it_o be_v to_o he_o suppose_v they_o have_v their_o original_a from_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o for_o as_o i_o remember_v s._n augustine_n have_v this_o rule_n in_o his_o 118._o epistle_n and_o in_o proof_n of_o this_o rule_n of_o s._n augustine_n he_o add_v it_o be_v of_o credit_n 352._o credit_n vbi_fw-la sugra_fw-mi pag._n 352._o with_o the_o writer_n of_o our_o time_n namely_o with_o m._n zwinglius_fw-la m._n caluin_n m._n gualther_n and_o sure_o i_o think_v no_o
learned_a man_n do_v dissent_v from_o they_o be_v not_o i_o pray_v you_o these_o and_o the_o like_a tradition_n upon_o which_o your_o hierarchy_n depend_v of_o some_o consequence_n and_o worth_a your_o labour_n to_o put_v they_o in_o a_o catalogue_n or_o do_v you_o not_o hold_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n to_o be_v infallible_a true_a 23._o it_o be_v but_o a_o calumny_n to_o affirm_v that_o 163._o that_o pag._n 163._o we_o receive_v the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n with_o no_o less_o devotion_n than_o the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o you_o cite_v 169._o cite_v pag._n 169._o that_o very_a place_n of_o bellarmine_n where_o he_o 12._o he_o de_fw-fr cont._n l._n 2._o cap._n 12._o set_v down_o at_o large_a five_o singular_a prerogative_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n above_o the_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n in_o which_o respect_n your_o fault_n be_v less_o excusable_a it_o be_v your_o own_o doctrine_n that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o all_o fundamental_o and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o even_o in_o respect_n of_o such_o point_n equal_a her_o authority_n with_o that_o of_o holy_a scripture_n 24._o at_o length_n you_o come_v to_o teach_v that_o general_n counsel_n may_v err_v even_o damnable_o and_o yet_o you_o also_o teach_v that_o their_o authority_n be_v immediate_o 162_o immediate_o pag._n 162_o derive_v from_o christ_n and_o that_o their_o decree_n ibid._n decree_n ibid._n bind_v all_o person_n to_o external_a obedience_n but_o will_v you_o have_v man_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n external_o believe_v themselves_o &_o dissemble_v against_o their_o conscience_n and_o think_v that_o they_o do_v so_o by_o authority_n from_o christ_n the_o truth_n be_v that_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v the_o church_n be_v invisible_a as_o to_o say_v that_o her_o infallibility_n consist_v not_o in_o general_n counsel_n but_o in_o this_o that_o every_o member_n of_o the_o church_n can_v err_v damnable_o for_o towards_o the_o effect_n of_o instruct_v man_n in_o doubt_n concern_v faith_n all_o come_v to_o one_o effect_n and_o with_o what_o colour_n of_o truth_n do_v you_o say_v pag._n 164.165_o that_o you_o give_v general_n counsel_n much_o more_o respect_n then_o do_v most_o of_o our_o adversary_n since_o catholic_n believe_v they_o to_o be_v infallible_a which_o you_o deny_v 25._o but_o you_o will_v glad_o prove_v that_o counsel_n be_v fallible_a because_o they_o be_v discursive_a in_o their_o deliberation_n and_o 167._o and_o pag._n 167._o use_v the_o weight_n &_o moment_n of_o reason_n for_o the_o draw_v out_o of_o conclusion_n from_o their_o principle_n wherein_o it_o be_v confess_v they_o may_v mistake_v 26._o it_o be_v true_a we_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n coin_n no_o new_a revelation_n but_o only_o declare_v such_o to_o we_o as_o have_v be_v already_o deliver_v in_o the_o write_v or_o unwritten_a word_n of_o god_n to_o find_v which_o out_o she_o use_v mean_n by_o search_v out_o true_a record_n of_o antiquity_n by_o discuss_v 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do_v not_o rely_v upon_o these_o industry_n but_o visum_fw-la est_fw-la spiritui_fw-la sancto_fw-la &_o nobis_fw-la it_o have_v seem_v to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o we_o which_o word_n express_v both_o the_o formal_a motive_n and_o chief_a efficient_a cause_n of_o faith_n as_o also_o the_o free_a and_o voluntary_a concur_v of_o the_o apostle_n assist_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o out_o of_o these_o diligence_n &_o discourse_n of_o the_o apostle_n infer_v that_o this_o council_n be_v fallible_a or_o that_o there_o be_v no_o more_o certainty_n in_o the_o conclusion_n then_o in_o the_o argument_n themselves_o of_o which_o some_o abstract_v from_o the_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v but_o as_o the_o divines_n speak_v argument_n of_o credibility_n and_o disposition_n to_o faith_n as_o miracle_n etc._n etc._n or_o will_v you_o perhaps_o with_o your_o first_o patriarch_n luther_n reprehend_v even_o this_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o say_v with_o he_o that_o james_n who_o 29._o who_o in_o assert_v art_n 29._o opinion_n the_o whole_a council_n follow_v change_v the_o verdict_n of_o peter_n who_o judgement_n that_o the_o gentile_n shall_v not_o be_v constrain_v to_o observe_v the_o jewish_a ceremonic_n be_v most_o true_a &_o consequent_o the_o opinion_n of_o james_n and_o the_o council_n can_v not_o be_v true_a you_o grant_v as_o i_o must_v often_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_a point_n must_v she_o therefore_o use_v no_o industry_n to_o attain_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o such_o point_n and_o protestant_n who_o hold_v scripture_n to_o be_v the_o only_a rule_n of_o faith_n use_v mean_n of_o confer_v text_n consult_v the_o original_n prayer_n etc._n etc._n for_o attain_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o scripture_n and_o yet_o you_o will_v not_o grant_v that_o your_o faith_n be_v fallible_a because_o you_o will_v say_v 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by_o the_o latter_a have_v be_v answer_v a_o hundred_o time_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o you_o have_v read_v bellarmine_n who_o 6._o who_o de_fw-fr couc_n lib._n 1._o cap._n 6._o show_v that_o the_o second_o council_n of_o ephesus_n proceed_v unlawful_o wherein_o s._n flavianus_n bishop_n of_o constantinople_n be_v murder_v by_o the_o faction_n of_o dioscorus_n and_o the_o pope_n legate_n be_v drive_v away_o and_o final_o the_o eutichian_a heresy_n be_v confirm_v for_o which_o cause_v that_o council_n be_v annul_v by_o pope_n leo._n you_o have_v pick_v out_o a_o pretty_a example_n to_o prove_v that_o lawful_a counsel_n confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v to_o the_o word_n of_o s._n augustine_n bellarmine_n answer_v that_o primò_fw-la that_o de_fw-fr consul_n lib._n 2._o c._n 7._o §._o respondeo_fw-la primò_fw-la either_o they_o be_v understand_v of_o unlawful_a counsel_n such_o as_o be_v the_o second_o of_o ephesus_n or_o else_o they_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o question_n concern_v matter_n of_o fact_n as_o whether_o caecilianus_n have_v deliver_v up_o the_o bible_n or_o final_o that_o latter_a counsel_n may_v be_v say_v to_o correct_v the_o former_a because_o some_o decree_n which_o concern_v manner_n may_v by_o change_n of_o circumstance_n prove_v inconvenient_a although_o in_o the_o beginning_n they_o be_v very_o holy_a and_o fit_a which_o interpretation_n be_v gather_v out_o of_o s._n augustine_n himself_o who_o say_v that_o counsel_n may_v be_v correct_v when_o experience_n do_v manifest_a something_o which_o before_o do_v not_o appear_v now_o experience_n have_v no_o place_n in_o universal_a doctrine_n but_o in_o particular_a fact_n or_o law_n which_o respect_v particular_a circumstance_n of_o time_n and_o place_n etc._n etc._n your_o second_o citation_n in_o your_o margin_n out_o of_o s._n augustine_n maxim_n augustine_n lib._n 3._o count_n maxim_n who_o word_n you_o do_v not_o recite_v bellarmine_n answer_v in_o the_o place_n which_o i_o have_v cite_v
if_o you_o answer_v i_o at_o all_o i_o beseech_v you_o forget_v not_o this_o demand_n and_o whether_o the_o observation_n of_o they_o be_v not_o holy_a and_o forasmuch_o as_o belong_v to_o that_o particular_a object_n a_o perfect_a cbristian_a fast_o and_o meritorious_a in_o that_o sense_n and_o degree_n according_a to_o which_o you_o grant_v that_o other_o work_n be_v meritorious_a or_o deserve_v a_o reward_n for_o the_o other_o part_n of_o your_o objection_n that_o he_o that_o eat_v flesh_n in_o lent_n be_v punish_v with_o a_o more_o grievous_a penance_n than_o he_o that_o blaspheme_v etc._n etc._n you_o show_v how_o modest_a a_o man_n you_o be_v and_o with_o all_o that_o you_o be_v little_o see_v either_o in_o the_o canon_n or_o civil_a law_n for_o the_o civil_a law_n command_v that_o 77._o that_o in_o authentiea_n we_o non_fw-la luxurientur_fw-la homines_fw-la novel_a 77._o blasphemer_n shall_v be_v punish_v with_o death_n because_o say_v the_o law_n hunger_n and_o earthquake_n and_o plague_n come_v by_o reason_n of_o such_o crime_n in_o the_o matediçiâ—â—_n the_o cap._n statuimus_fw-la de_fw-fr matediçiâ—â—_n canon_n law_n blasphemer_n beside_o other_o punishment_n be_v to_o stand_v as_o penitent_n at_o the_o church_n door_n for_o the_o space_n of_o some_o sunday_n and_o for_o some_o friday_n to_o fast_o in_o bread_n &_o water_n etc._n etc._n and_o by_o other_o decree_n of_o pope_n the_o same_o sin_n be_v grievous_o punish_v as_o in_o particular_a the_o council_n of_o lateran_n under_o leo_n the_o 10._o command_n that_o none_o be_v absolve_v from_o blasphemy_n without_o a_o grievous_a penance_n and_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n julius_n iii_o and_o pius_n v._o have_v make_v very_o severe_a decree_n nevertheless_o it_o be_v also_o true_a that_o great_a punishment_n may_v in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la be_v appoint_v for_o some_o sin_n which_o be_v less_o than_o other_o as_o s._n thomas_n do_v 1._o do_v 1.2_o q._n 105._o be_v 2._o ad_fw-la 9_o and_o 2.2_o q._n 39_o art_n 2._o ad_fw-la 1._o true_o affirm_v do_v not_o yourselves_o more_o usual_o punish_v such_o as_o without_o licence_n eat_v flesh_n in_o lent_n then_o they_o who_o take_v the_o name_n of_o god_n in_o vain_a or_o abuse_v themselves_o by_o drunkenness_n or_o wrong_v their_o neighbour_n by_o detraction_n and_o beside_o to_o eat_v flesh_n in_o lent_n may_v be_v a_o act_n of_o heresy_n which_o how_o grievous_a a_o sin_n it_o be_v have_v be_v explicate_v heretofore_o 10._o by_o occasion_n of_o mention_v the_o manichee_n you_o charge_v your_o margin_n as_o your_o fashion_n be_v with_o a_o deep_a piece_n of_o erudition_n that_o the_o name_n forsooth_o of_o their_o founder_n manes_n be_v conform_v to_o the_o greek_a word_n which_o signify_v madness_n but_o if_o we_o delight_v be_v take_v hold_v of_o such_o goodly_a occasion_n of_o vanity_n we_o can_v say_v that_o he_o be_v a_o persian_a and_o his_o name_n be_v first_o cubricus_n which_o he_o change_v into_o name_n which_o in_o the_o babylonian_a tongue_n signify_v 66._o signify_v epiph._n haeres_fw-la 66._o a_o vessel_n but_o let_v we_o leave_v these_o toy_n to_o grammar_n scholar_n 11._o it_o seem_v you_o be_v willing_a of_o set_a purpose_n to_o mistake_v the_o point_n in_o question_n which_o be_v whether_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n or_o no_o about_o which_o charity_n mistake_v have_v instance_a in_o some_o point_n of_o faith_n not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n as_o the_o scripture_n and_o sacrament_n he_o add_v these_o word_n beside_o that_o there_o be_v 86.87_o be_v pag._n 86.87_o some_o great_a difference_n between_o they_o mean_v protestant_n and_o we_o about_o the_o understanding_n of_o the_o article_n of_o the_o descent_n of_o christ_n our_o lord_n into_o hell_n and_o that_o other_o of_o the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n and_o that_o also_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n which_o we_o believe_v and_o they_o deny_v to_o involve_v both_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a 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be_v some_o universal_a judge_n which_o the_o ignorant_a may_v understand_v and_o to_o who_o the_o great_a clerk_n must_v submit_v such_o be_v the_o church_n and_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o such_o 20._o now_o the_o inconvenience_n which_o follow_v by_o refer_v all_o controversy_n to_o scripture_n alone_o be_v very_o clear_a for_o by_o this_o principle_n all_o be_v final_o in_o very_a deed_n and_o truth_n reduce_v to_o the_o internal_a private_a spirit_n because_o there_o be_v real_o no_o middle_a way_n betwixt_o a_o public_a external_a and_o a_o private_a internal_a voice_n &_o whosoever_o refuse_v the_o one_o must_v of_o necessity_n adhere_v to_o the_o other_o 21._o this_o tenet_n also_o of_o protestant_n by_o take_v the_o office_n of_o judicature_n from_o the_o church_n come_v to_o confer_v it_o upon_o every_o particular_a man_n who_o be_v drive_v from_o submission_n to_o the_o church_n can_v be_v blame_v if_o he_o trust_v himself_o as_o far_o as_o any_o other_o his_o conscience_n dictate_v that_o witting_o he_o mean_v not_o to_o cozen_v himself_o as_o other_o malicious_o may_v do_v which_o inference_n be_v so_o manifest_a that_o it_o have_v extort_a from_o diverse_a protestant_n the_o open_a confession_n of_o so_o vast_a a_o absurdity_n hear_v luther_n the_o governor_n 375._o governor_n tom._n 2._o wittenberg_n fol._n 375._o of_o church_n and_o pastor_n of_o christ_n sheep_n have_v indeed_o power_n to_o teach_v but_o the_o sheep_n ought_v to_o give_v judgement_n whether_o they_o propound_v the_o voice_n of_o christ_n or_o of_o alien_n lubbertus_n say_v as_o we_o have_v 13._o have_v in_o lib._n de_fw-fr principiâ—s_fw-fr christian._n dogm_n lib._n 6._o cap._n 13._o demonstrate_v that_o all_o public_a judge_n may_v be_v deceive_v in_o interpret_n so_o we_o affirm_v that_o they_o may_v err_v in_o judge_v all_o faithful_a man_n be_v prinate_a judge_n and_o they_o also_o have_v power_n to_o judge_n of_o doctrine_n and_o interpretation_n whitaker_n even_o of_o the_o unlearned_a say_v they_o 529._o they_o de_fw-fr sacra_fw-la scriptura_fw-la pag._n 529._o ought_v to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o more_o learned_a but_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n we_o must_v be_v careful_a not_o to_o attribute_v to_o they_o overmuch_o but_o so_o that_o still_o we_o retain_v our_o own_o freedom_n bilson_n also_o affirm_v that_o the_o people_n 2._o people_n in_o his_o true_a difference_n part_n 2._o must_v be_v discerner_n and_o judge_n of_o that_o which_o be_v teach_v this_o same_o pernicious_a doctrine_n be_v deliver_v by_o brentius_n zanchius_n cartwright_n and_o other_o exact_o cite_v by_o 1_o by_o tract_n 2._o cap._n 1._o sect._n 1_o brereley_o &_o nothing_o be_v more_o common_a in_o every_o protestant_n mouth_n then_o that_o he_o admit_v of_o father_n counsel_n church_n etc._n etc._n as_o far_o as_o they_o agree_v with_o scripture_n which_o upon_o the_o matter_n be_v himself_o thus_o heresy_n ever_o fall_v upon_o extreme_n it_o pretend_v to_o have_v scripture_n alone_o for_o judge_n of_o controversy_n and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n set_v up_o as_o many_o judge_n as_o there_o be_v man_n and_o woman_n in_o the_o christian_a world_n what_o good_a statesman_n will_v they_o be_v who_o shall_v idëate_v or_o fancy_v such_o a_o common_a wealth_n as_o these_o man_n have_v frame_v to_o themselves_o a_o church_n they_o verify_v what_o s._n augustine_n object_v against_o certain_a heretic_n you_o sce_n faust_n sce_n lib_n 32._o cont_n faust_n that_o you_o go_v about_o to_o overthrow_v all_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o that_o every_o man_n mind_n may_v be_v to_o himself_o a_o rule_n what_o he_o be_v to_o allow_v or_o disallow_v in_o every_o scripture_n 22._o moreover_o what_o confusion_n to_o the_o church_n what_o danger_n to_o the_o common_a wealth_n this_o denial_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n may_v bring_v i_o leave_v to_o the_o consideration_n of_o any_o judicious_a indifferent_a man_n i_o will_v only_o set_v down_o some_o word_n 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and_o chief_a point_n of_o all_o other_o d._n covell_n express_o say_v doubtless_o 31._o doubtless_o in_o his_o defence_n of_o m._n hokers_n book_n art_n 4._o p._n 31._o it_o be_v a_o tolerable_a opinion_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n if_o they_o go_v no_o further_o as_o some_o of_o they_o do_v not_o he_o shall_v have_v say_v as_o none_o of_o they_o do_v to_o affirm_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v holy_a and_o divine_a in_o themselves_o but_o so_o esteem_v by_o we_o for_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n he_o will_v likewise_o oppose_v himself_o to_o those_o his_o brethren_n who_o grant_v that_o controversy_n can_v be_v end_v without_o some_o external_a live_a authority_n as_o we_o note_v before_o beside_o how_o can_v it_o be_v in_o we_o a_o fundamental_a error_n to_o say_v the_o scripture_n alone_o be_v not_o judge_n of_o controversy_n see_v notwithstanding_o this_o our_o belief_n we_o use_v for_o interpret_n of_o scripture_n all_o the_o mean_n which_o they_o prescribe_v as_o 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to_o error_n in_o such_o
back_o nothing_o with_o your_o gloss_n needful_a for_o our_o salvation_n be_v no_o proof_n unless_o you_o still_o beg_v the_o question_n and_o do_v suppose_v that_o whatsoever_o the_o apostle_n reveal_v to_o the_o church_n be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o i_o wonder_v you_o do_v not_o reflect_v that_o those_o word_n be_v by_o s._n paul_n particular_o direct_v to_o pastor_n and_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v clear_a by_o the_o other_o word_n he_o call_v the_o ancient_n of_o the_o church_n and_o afterward_o take_v heed_n to_o yourselves_o and_o to_o the_o whole_a flock_n wherein_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v place_v you_o bishop_n to_o rule_v the_o church_n and_o yourself_o say_v that_o more_o knowledge_n be_v 244_o be_v pag._n 244_o necessary_a in_o bishop_n and_o priest_n to_o who_o be_v commit_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o care_n of_o soul_n then_o in_o vulgar_a laicke_n do_v you_o think_v that_o the_o apostle_n teach_v christian_n nothing_o 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to_o our_o saviour_n christ_n high_a adoration_n be_v exhibit_v as_o to_o god_n or_o as_o bellarmine_n 9_o bellarmine_n de_fw-fr purg._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o say_v we_o distinguish_v saint_n from_o christ_n because_o we_o offer_v sacrifice_n of_o thanksgiving_a for_o saint_n but_o we_o do_v not_o offer_v sacrifice_n for_o christ_n but_o to_o he_o together_o with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n you_o likewise_o falsify_v s._n epiphanius_n while_o you_o say_v out_o of_o he_o that_o the_o live_a have_v hope_n for_o the_o decease_a as_o for_o those_o which_o be_v from_o home_n in_o another_o country_n and_o that_o at_o length_n they_o shall_v attain_v the_o state_n which_o be_v more_o perfect_a which_o last_o word_n be_v not_o in_o s._n epiphanius_n who_o never_o teach_v that_o we_o offer_v prayer_n for_o saint_n that_o they_o may_v attain_v a_o state_n which_o be_v more_o perfect_a and_o when_o s._n epiphanius_n say_v that_o those_o who_o pray_v for_o their_o brethren_n 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church_n have_v also_o in_o herself_o ordinance_n inviolable_a which_o can_v be_v break_v behold_v ecclesiastical_a tradition_n since_o therefore_o there_o be_v ordinance_n set_v down_o in_o the_o church_n and_o that_o all_o be_v right_a and_o admirable_a this_o seducer_n aërius_n remain_v confute_v and_o together_o with_o he_o all_o those_o that_o follow_v his_o heresy_n and_o let_v we_o yet_o hear_v s._n epiphanius_n speak_v a_o little_a before_o of_o another_o point_n thus_o but_o who_o know_v most_o of_o these_o thing_n whether_o this_o delude_a fellow_n aërius_n who_o be_v yet_o aliuâ—â—_n etc._n etc._n or_o those_o who_o before_o we_o have_v yield_v testimony_n and_o have_v have_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n which_o also_o be_v deliver_v from_o their_o forefather_n as_o they_o likewise_o learn_v of_o those_o who_o be_v before_o they_o in_o which_o manner_n the_o church_n do_v still_o conserve_v the_o true_a faith_n receive_v from_o their_o forefather_n and_o also_o 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dead_a party_n that_o the_o divine_a goodness_n will_v pardon_v all_o his_o sin_n commit_v by_o humane_a frailty_n and_o transfer_v he_o to_o light_n and_o the_o country_n of_o the_o live_n i_o wonder_v then_o how_o in_o your_o text_n your_o can_v tell_v we_o that_o 37._o that_o pag._n 37._o conformable_o to_o your_o opinion_n the_o ancient_a church_n in_o her_o liturgy_n remember_v all_o those_o that_o sleep_v in_o hope_n of_o the_o resurrection_n of_o everlasting_a life_n and_o particular_o the_o patriarch_n prophet_n apostle_n martyr_n &c._n &c._n beseech_v god_n to_o give_v they_o rest_n and_o to_o bring_v they_o you_o put_v in_o a_o parenthesis_n at_o the_o resurrection_n to_o the_o place_n where_o the_o light_n of_o his_o countenance_n shall_v shine_v upon_o they_o for_o evermore_o and_o in_o your_o margin_n you_o cite_v s._n dionysius_n as_o favour_v you_o who_o nevertheless_o in_o the_o very_a chapter_n which_o you_o cite_v for_o your_o opinion_n be_v direct_o against_o you_o in_o the_o word_n even_o now_o allege_v the_o like_a fincerity_n you_o show_v in_o the_o very_a same_o margin_n in_o cite_v s._n cyril_n who_o do_v clear_o affirm_v that_o in_o the_o sacrifice_n we_o remember_v some_o that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o other_o that_o they_o may_v be_v relieve_v by_o our_o prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n in_o these_o word_n when_o we_o offer_v this_o sacrifice_n 5._o sacrifice_n catech._n 5._o we_o make_v mention_n of_o those_o who_o be_v decease_v of_o patriarch_n etc._n etc._n that_o god_n will_v receyve_v our_o prayer_n by_o their_o intercession_n and_o we_o pray_v for_o all_o who_o be_v decease_v believe_v that_o it_o be_v a_o most_o great_a help_n to_o those_o for_o who_o the_o obsecration_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o dreadful_a sacrifice_n be_v offer_v s._n gregory_n nyssen_n say_v he_o can_v after_o his_o departure_n mortuis_fw-la departure_n in_o orat._n pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la from_o the_o body_n be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o divinity_n unless_o the_o purge_a fire_n shall_v cleanse_v the_o stain_n of_o his_o soul_n 14._o among_o the_o latin_a father_n protestant_n pretend_v to_o esteem_v none_o more_o than_o s._n augustine_n and_o yet_o none_o can_v speak_v more_o plain_o against_o they_o in_o this_o point_n than_o he_o do_v who_o beside_o that_o he_o rank_n aenrius_n among_o the_o heretic_n in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v purge_v i_o 37._o i_o in_o psal_n 37._o in_o this_o life_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o i_o may_v not_o need_v the_o correct_v or_o amend_v fire_n and_o afterward_o it_o be_v say_v he_o shall_v be_v save_v as_o if_o it_o be_v by_o fire_n and_o because_o it_o be_v say_v he_o shall_v be_v save_v that_o fire_n grow_v to_o be_v contemn_v but_o so_o it_o be_v though_o he_o shall_v be_v save_v yet_o the_o pain_n of_o that_o fire_n be_v more_o grievous_a than_o whatsoever_o a_o man_n can_v suffer_v in_o this_o life_n and_o elsw_o where_o some_o suffer_v 13._o suffer_v de_fw-fr civet_n lib._n 21._o c._n 13._o temporal_a punishment_n only_o in_o this_o life_n other_o after_o death_n other_o both_o now_o and_o then_o of_o which_o place_n fulke_n be_v enforce_v to_o say_v augustine_n conclude_v very_o clear_o 110._o clear_o consut_fw-la of_o purg._n pag._n 110._o that_o some_o suffer_v temporal_a pain_n after_o this_o life_n this_o may_v not_o be_v deny_v and_o in_o another_o place_n s._n augustine_n say_v we_o ought_v not_o 34._o not_o de_fw-fr verbis_fw-la apost_n serm_n 34._o to_o doubt_v but_o that_o the_o dead_a be_v holpen_v by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o holy_a church_n and_o by_o the_o wholesome_a sacrifice_n and_o by_o ailrne_n give_v for_o their_o soul_n that_o our_o lord_n will_v avale_fw-mi with_o they_o more_o merciful_o than_o their_o sin_n have_v deserve_v for_o the_o whole_a church_n observe_v this_o as_o deliver_v from_o our_o father_n neither_o can_v you_o avoid_v these_o authority_n by_o fly_v to_o the_o request_n of_o god_n mercy_n that_o they_o may_v have_v their_o 39_o their_o pag._n 39_o serfect_a consummation_n in_o body_n and_o soul_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n at_o the_o last_o judgement_n as_o you_o speak_v for_o beside_o that_o all_o they_o who_o depart_v this_o life_n in_o god_n favour_n be_v most_o assure_v of_o a_o perfect_a consummation_n independant_o of_o our_o almsdeed_n prayer_n &c._n &c._n s._n augustine_n as_o you_o have_v hear_v speak_v of_o a_o purge_v fire_n of_o temporal_a punlishment_n after_o this_o life_n etc._n etc._n and_o do_v elsewhere_o write_v as_o if_o he_o have_v purposely_o intend_v to_o prevent_v this_o your_o evasion_n say_v at_o the_o altar_n joan._n altar_n tract_n 84._o in_o joan._n we_o do_v not_o remember_v martyr_n as_o we_o do_v other_o decease_a who_o rest_n in_o peace_n by_o pray_v for_o they_o but_o rather_o that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o us._n which_o difference_n between_o martyr_n and_o other_o
but_o we_o can_v tell_v you_o when_o and_o who_o first_o begin_v to_o oppose_v indulgence_n namely_o the_o waldense_n who_o appear_v about_o the_o year_n 1170._o and_o therefore_o the_o mark_n of_o novelty_n &_o heresy_n must_v fall_v not_o upon_o the_o defender_n but_o the_o impugner_n of_o indulgence_n 12._o you_o say_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n that_o leo_n the_o three_o be_v the_o first_o that_o ever_o canonize_v any_o saint_n as_o before_z pag._n 72._o you_o allege_v out_o of_o he_o that_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n be_v bring_v into_o the_o church_n rather_o by_o custom_n then_o by_o any_o precept_n and_o in_o your_o margin_n you_o cite_v he_o in_o latin_a saying_n saint_n begin_v to_o be_v uâ—â—_n be_v de_fw-fr saitctorum_fw-la beat_v lib._n 1._o cap._n 8._o §_o uâ—â—_n worship_v in_o the_o universal_a church_n rather_o by_o custom_n then_o by_o precept_n but_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o there_o treat_v in_o general_a of_o worship_n of_o saint_n but_o only_o handle_v the_o question_n cvius_fw-la sit_fw-la etc._n etc._n to_o who_o do_v it_o belong_v to_o canonize_v saint_n and_o prove_v that_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o pope_n to_o canonize_v they_o for_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o not_o for_o some_o particular_a diocese_n alone_o in_o answer_n to_o a_o objection_n that_o there_o be_v many_o worship_v for_o saint_n who_o be_v not_o canonize_v by_o the_o pope_n he_o have_v these_o word_n i_o answer_v that_o the_o ancient_a saint_n begin_v to_o be_v worship_v in_o the_o universal_a church_n not_o so_o much_o by_o any_o law_n as_o by_o custom_n where_o you_o break_v off_o but_o bellarmine_n go_v forward_o and_o say_v but_o as_o other_o custom_n have_v the_o force_n of_o a_o law_n by_o the_o tacit_a consent_v of_o the_o prince_n without_o which_o they_o be_v of_o no_o force_n etc._n etc._n so_o the_o worship_n of_o any_o saint_n general_o introduce_v by_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n have_v force_n from_o the_o tacit_a or_o express_v approbation_n of_o the_o pope_n first_o then_o you_o conceal_v the_o question_n of_o which_o bellarmine_n treat_v second_o you_o leave_v out_o veteres_n ancient_a saint_n and_o say_v only_a saint_n and_o yet_o ancient_n show_v he_o speak_v not_o of_o all_o saint_n but_o of_o some_o who_o be_v not_o express_o canonize_v or_o command_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o saint_n whereas_o diverse_a other_o have_v be_v canonize_v by_o direct_a command_n to_o believe_v that_o they_o be_v happy_a three_o in_o your_o translation_n you_o leave_v out_o universal_a &_o only_o put_v church_n whereas_o bellarmine_n §_o primo_fw-la modo_fw-la express_o teach_v that_o in_o ancient_a time_n every_o bishop_n may_v canonize_v saint_n for_o his_o particular_a diocese_n and_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la they_o do_v command_v some_o feast_n to_o be_v keep_v as_o bellarmine_n prove_v which_o show_v that_o the_o worship_n of_o saint_n be_v hold_v both_o to_o be_v lawful_a and_o be_v to_o some_o particular_a person_n command_v four_o you_o leave_v out_o bellarmine_n word_n that_o the_o worship_n of_o some_o saint_n general_o introduce_v by_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n grow_v to_o have_v the_o force_n of_o a_o law_n or_o precept_n by_o the_o tacit_a or_o express_v approbation_n of_o the_o pope_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o that_o which_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n the_o worship_n and_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v bring_v into_o the_o church_n rather_o by_o custom_n than_o any_o precpt_n and_o now_o to_o come_v to_o your_o former_a objection_n out_o of_o bellarmine_n what_o be_v it_o to_o your_o purpose_n if_o he_o affirm_v that_o leo_n the_o three_o be_v the_o first_o that_o ever_o canonize_v any_o saint_n do_v he_o affirm_v that_o leo_n be_v the_o first_o that_o teach_v worship_n and_o invocation_n of_o saint_n or_o that_o such_o worship_n be_v not_o practise_v by_o custom_n yea_o &_o by_o precept_n before_o his_o time_n as_o we_o have_v seem_v out_o of_o his_o word_n it_o be_v bellarmine_n speak_v only_o of_o such_o form_n and_o solemnity_n of_o canonization_n as_o afterward_o be_v use_v which_o make_v nothing_o for_o your_o purpose_n to_o prove_v that_o our_o doctrine_n of_o worship_n or_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v a_o novelty_n if_o one_o shall_v affirm_v that_o the_o solemnity_n of_o crown_v king_n be_v not_o use_v in_o all_o place_n or_o time_n alike_o shall_v he_o therefore_o deny_v the_o antiquity_n of_o king_n or_o that_o obedience_n be_v due_a to_o they_o you_o may_v see_v not_o only_o the_o error_n but_o the_o danger_n also_o of_o such_o discourse_n 13._o when_o one_o read_v in_o your_o book_n these_o word_n in_o a_o different_a letter_n not_o any_o one_o ancient_a writer_n 78._o writer_n pag._n 78._o reckon_v precise_o seven_o sacrament_n the_o first_o author_n that_o mention_n that_o number_n be_v peter_n lombard_n and_o the_o first_o council_n that_o of_o florence_n and_o in_o your_o margin_n the_o name_n of_o valentia_n and_o bellarmine_n who_o will_v not_o think_v that_o in_o the_o opinion_n of_o these_o author_n no_o ancient_a writer_n before_o lombard_n believe_v that_o there_o be_v seven_o sacrament_n neither_o more_o nor_o few_o which_o be_v most_o untrue_a and_o against_o their_o formal_a word_n &_o express_v intention_n for_o thus_o say_v valentia_n in_o the_o very_a same_o place_n which_o you_o probatur_fw-la you_o tom._n 4._o disp_v 3._o q._n 6._o p._n 2._o §_o tertie_n probatur_fw-la cite_v the_o same_o assertion_n that_o there_o be_v seven_o sacrament_n be_v prove_v by_o the_o authority_n of_o father_n for_o although_o the_o more_o ancient_a writer_n do_v not_o number_v seven_o sacrament_n all_o together_o in_o one_o place_n yet_o it_o may_v be_v easy_o show_v especial_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o s._n augustine_n that_o they_o do_v acknowledge_v every_o one_o of_o these_o ceremony_n to_o be_v a_o sacrament_n thus_o valentia_n in_o general_a and_o then_o he_o prove_v every_o one_o of_o the_o seven_o sacrament_n out_o of_o particular_a place_n of_o s._n augustine_n s._n cyprian_n s._n ambrose_n innocentius_n the_o first_o chrysostome_n bode_n and_o dionysius_n areopagita_n now_o tell_v i_o whether_o valentia_n say_v not_o any_o one_o ancient_a writer_n reckon_v precise_o seven_o sacrament_n do_v he_o not_o prove_v out_o of_o s._n augustine_n every_o one_o of_o the_o seven_o sacrament_n in_o particular_a as_o you_o can_v not_o but_o see_v in_o the_o very_a place_n cite_v by_o you_o be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o say_v not_o any_o one_o ancient_a writer_n reckon_v precise_o seven_o sacrament_n as_o you_o corrupt_v these_o author_n and_o to_o say_v the_o ancient_a writer_n do_v not_o number_v seven_o sacrament_n all_o together_o in_o one_o place_n neither_o be_v your_o falsify_v of_o bellarmine_n less_o remarkable_a who_o have_v say_v that_o the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n and_o ancient_a father_n premise_v this_o observation_n that_o our_o adversary_n ought_v not_o to_o require_v of_o we_o that_o 25._o that_o bellarm._n de_fw-fr sacram._n lib._n 2._o ç._fw-la 25._o we_o show_v in_o scripture_n and_o father_n the_o name_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n for_o neither_o can_v they_o show_v the_o name_n of_o two_o or_o three_o or_o four_o for_o the_o scripture_n and_o father_n do_v not_o write_v a_o catechism_n as_o now_o we_o do_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o multitude_n of_o heresy_n but_o only_o deliver_v the_o thing_n themselves_o in_o diverse_a place_n neither_o be_v this_o proper_a to_o sacrament_n but_o common_a to_o many_o other_o thing_n for_o the_o scripture_n reckon_v the_o miracle_n of_o our_o saviour_n but_o never_o reckon_v how_o many_o there_o be_v it_o deliver_v the_o article_n of_o faith_n but_o never_o say_v how_o many_o they_o be_v the_o apostle_n afterward_o publish_v the_o creed_n of_o twelve_o article_n for_o some_o particular_a cause_n in_o like_a manner_n they_o can_v know_v out_o of_o scripture_n how_o many_o canonical_a break_z there_o be_v but_o counsel_n afterward_o set_v down_o the_o canon_n and_o the_o particular_a number_n which_o they_o have_v learn_v by_o tradition_n and_o afterward_o he_o note_v that_o it_o be_v sufficient_a if_o we_o can_v show_v out_o of_o father_n and_o scripture_n that_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n do_v agree_v neither_o to_o more_o nor_o few_o rite_n than_o seven_o by_o which_o word_n it_o be_v clear_a that_o when_o bellarmine_n say_v lombard_n be_v the_o first_o that_o name_v the_o number_n of_o seven_o sacrament_n he_o only_o mean_v as_o he_o explicate_v himself_o of_o the_o name_n of_o seven_o as_o protestant_n will_v not_o find_v in_o all_o antiquity_n the_o name_n of_o two_o sacrament_n so_o that_o from_o the_o word_n of_o valentia_n and_o bellarmine_n as_o they_o be_v indeed_o nothing_o can_v be_v gather_v except_o your_o very_a unconscionable_a deal_v 14._o what_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o bellarmine_n
we_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v not_o always_o easy_a to_o determine_v in_o particular_a occasion_n whether_o this_o or_o that_o doctrine_n be_v such_o because_o it_o may_v be_v doubtful_a whether_o it_o be_v against_o any_o scripture_n or_o divine_a tradition_n or_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n and_o much_o more_o whether_o the_o person_n be_v a_o heretic_n which_o require_v certain_a condition_n as_o capacity_n pertinacy_n sufficient_a proposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v not_o always_o so_o easy_o explicate_v and_o discern_v and_o for_o these_o respect_n s._n augustine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v 102._o cite_v pag._n 102._o by_o you_o have_v good_a reason_n to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v hard_o to_o know_v what_o make_v a_o heretic_n but_o it_o be_v strange_a that_o you_o shall_v hold_v it_o to_o be_v so_o hard_a a_o matter_n to_o give_v a_o general_a definition_n of_o heresy_n or_o heretic_n since_o in_o this_o very_a section_n you_o dispatch_v it_o quick_o say_v he_o be_v just_o 98._o just_o pag._n 98._o esteem_v a_o heretic_n who_o yield_v not_o to_o scripture_n sufficient_o propound_v or_o as_o you_o say_v else_o where_o it_o be_v fundamental_a 250._o fundamental_a pag._n 250._o to_o a_o christian_n faith_n and_o necessary_a for_o his_o salvation_n that_o he_o believe_v all_o reveal_v truth_n of_o god_n whereof_o he_o may_v be_v convince_v that_o they_o be_v from_o god_n nay_o if_o you_o will_v speak_v with_o coherence_n to_o your_o own_o ground_n it_o be_v easy_a for_o you_o to_o define_v in_o all_o particular_a case_n what_o be_v damnable_a heresy_n for_o you_o i_o say_v who_o measure_n all_o heresy_n by_o opposition_n to_o scripture_n and_o further_o affirm_v that_o scripture_n be_v clear_a in_o all_o fundamental_a point_n for_o by_o this_o mean_v it_o will_v be_v easy_a for_o you_o to_o discern_v what_o error_n oppose_v those_o fundamental_a truth_n which_o be_v clear_o contain_v in_o scripture_n 4._o in_o your_o discourse_n concern_v the_o 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s._n cyprian_n mild_a proceed_n which_o you_o so_o much_o commend_v out_o of_o your_o ill_a will_n to_o s._n stephen_n because_o he_o be_v pope_n s._n augustine_n say_v the_o thing_n which_o 25._o which_o de_fw-fr bapt._n cont_n donat._n lib._n 5._o cap._n 25._o cyprian_n in_o anger_n have_v spread_v against_o stephen_n i_o will_v not_o suffer_v to_o pass_v under_o my_o pen._n wherefore_o you_o can_v not_o have_v pick_v out_o a_o example_n more_o in_o favour_n of_o pope_n than_o this_o and_o you_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v not_o to_o credit_v what_o you_o say_v that_o both_o stephen_n and_o cyprian_n err_v in_o some_o sense_n for_o stephen_n only_o affirm_v that_o baptism_n be_v not_o invalide_v precise_o because_o it_o be_v give_v by_o heretic_n as_o s._n cyprian_n affirm_v it_o to_o be_v but_o yet_o if_o the_o heretic_n err_v either_o in_o the_o matter_n or_o form_n of_o baptism_n stephen_n never_o affirm_v such_o baptism_n to_o be_v valid_a which_o have_v be_v more_o than_o he_o grant_v even_o to_o the_o baptism_n of_o catholic_n 5._o your_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o 112._o that_o pag._n 112._o concern_v our_o great_a safety_n we_o dispute_v against_o you_o as_o the_o donatist_n do_v against_o catholic_n i_o have_v answer_v 7._o answer_v cap._n 7._o num_fw-la 7._o in_o the_o first_o part._n you_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v that_o we_o be_v like_o the_o donatist_n who_o wash_v church_n wall_n and_o vestment_n of_o catholic_n break_v their_o chalice_n scrape_v their_o altar_n etc._n etc._n but_o i_o pray_v you_o consider_v whether_o chalice_n vestment_n pall_v or_o corporal_n and_o altar_n do_v express_v the_o protestant_a church_n of_o england_n scotland_n geneva_n holland_n etc._n etc._n or_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 6._o you_o spend_v diverse_a page_n in_o propound_v argument_n for_o the_o opinion_n of_o m._n hooker_n and_o m._n morton_n that_o whersoever_o a_o company_n of_o man_n 113._o man_n pag._n 113._o do_v joint_o profess_v the_o substance_n of_o christian_a religion_n which_o be_v faith_n in_o jesus_n christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n and_o saviour_n of_o the_o world_n with_o submission_n to_o his_o doctrine_n in_o mind_n and_o will_n there_o be_v a_o church_n wherein_o salvation_n may_v be_v have_v notwithstanding_o any_o corruption_n in_o ludgment_n or_o practice_n yea_o although_o it_o be_v of_o that_o nature_n that_o it_o seem_v to_o fight_v with_o the_o very_a foundation_n and_o so_o heinous_a as_o that_o in_o respect_n thereof_o the_o people_n stain_v with_o this_o corruption_n be_v worthy_a to_o be_v abhor_v of_o all_o man_n and_o unworthy_a to_o be_v call_v the_o church_n of_o god_n but_o because_o these_o and_o such_o monstruous_a assertion_n proceed_v from_o other_o error_n which_o i_o have_v already_o both_o clear_o and_o at_o large_a confute_v to_o wit_n the_o fallibility_n of_o the_o church_n the_o distinction_n of_o point_n fundamental_a and_o not_o fundamental_a etc._n etc._n i_o refer_v you_o to_o those_o place_n and_o here_o only_o observe_v into_o what_o precipice_n they_o fall_v who_o deny_v the_o universal_a infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n and_o it_o be_v strange_a that_o you_o yourself_o do_v not_o see_v the_o manifest_a contradiction_n involue_v in_o this_o wicked_a doctrine_n for_o how_o can_v it_o be_v a_o church_n wherein_o salvation_n may_v be_v have_v and_o yet_o be_v unworthy_a to_o be_v call_v the_o church_n of_o god_n how_o can_v that_o man_n have_v faith_n in_o jesus_n christ_n with_o submission_n to_o his_o doctrine_n in_o mind_n and_o will_n who_o be_v suppose_v to_o join_v with_o his_o belief_n in_o jesus_n christ_n other_o error_n sufficient_o propound_v to_o be_v repugnant_a against_o god_n word_n or_o revelation_n can_v submission_n in_o mind_n or_o will_n or_o observation_n of_o his_o commandment_n stand_v with_o actual_a voluntary_a error_n against_o his_o word_n be_v it_o not_o a_o prime_a commandment_n to_o believe_v god_n word_n do_v not_o yourself_o 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