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scripture_n apostolical_a church_n tradition_n 4,989 5 9.5918 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A78447 The censures of the church revived. In the defence of a short paper published by the first classis within the province of Lancaster ... but since printed without their privity or consent, after it had been assaulted by some gentlemen and others within their bounds ... under the title of Ex-communicatio excommunicata, or a Censure of the presbyterian censures and proceedings, in the classis at Manchester. Wherein 1. The dangerousness of admitting moderate episcopacy is shewed. ... 6. The presbyterian government vindicated from severall aspersions cast upon it, ... In three full answers ... Together with a full narrative, of the occasion and grounds, of publishing in the congregations, the above mentioned short paper, and of the whole proceedings since, from first to last. Harrison, John, 1613?-1670.; Allen, Isaac, 17th cent. 1659 (1659) Wing C1669; Thomason E980_22; ESTC R207784 289,546 380

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but_o upon_o this_o representation_n that_o we_o have_v make_v and_o the_o reader_n his_o peruse_n what_o he_o may_v find_v in_o our_o answer_n more_o full_o and_o what_o you_o here_o reply_v unto_o it_o compare_v all_o together_o he_o will_v be_v better_a able_a to_o judge_v concern_v the_o whole_a matter_n as_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o he_o will_v conceive_v the_o argument_n we_o urge_v against_o the_o rule_n you_o have_v lay_v down_o for_o the_o decide_n of_o controversy_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n stand_v still_o in_o their_o full_a strength_n it_o will_v not_o be_v necessary_a for_o we_o to_o urge_v any_o more_o to_o that_o purpose_n till_o these_o that_o we_o have_v already_o urge_v be_v answer_v 2._o yet_o because_o you_o say_v something_o against_o what_o we_o insinuate_v touch_v make_v the_o word_n of_o god_n alone_o the_o determiner_n and_o so_o be_v judge_n concern_v all_o controversy_n in_o religion_n and_o particular_o concern_v that_o betwixt_o you_o and_o we_o 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custom_n not_o to_o be_v find_v mention_v or_o awarrant_v by_o the_o scripture_n make_v with_o they_o the_o scripture_n imperfect_a and_o that_o their_o imperfection_n must_v be_v supply_v by_o these_o unwritten_a tradition_n but_o wherein_o they_o be_v oppose_v by_o our_o protestant_a divine_n to_o who_o we_o send_v you_o touch_v this_o matter_n 3._o but_o that_o we_o may_v come_v to_o speak_v to_o the_o canon_n themselves_o that_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o this_o council_n particular_o 1._o first_o we_o do_v not_o find_v in_o that_o six_o canon_n that_o you_o do_v chief_o insist_v on_o any_o of_o the_o word_n patriarch_n primate_n or_o archbishop_n at_o all_o there_o use_v only_o it_o be_v decree_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o alexandria_n he_o be_v not_o call_v the_o patriarch_n as_o you_o call_v he_o have_v power_n over_o egypt_n lybia_n and_o pentapolis_n we_o confess_v the_o word_n metropolitan_a be_v use_v in_o this_o canon_n but_o not_o any_o of_o the_o other_o abovementioned_a the_o like_a whereunto_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v touch_v the_o seven_o canon_n by_o you_o cite_v and_o yet_o we_o lay_v no_o great_a stress_n on_o this_o that_o these_o word_n be_v not_o there_o find_v but_o hint_n only_o thus_o much_o to_o you_o by_o the_o way_n who_o take_v advantage_n at_o we_o in_o regard_n of_o word_n though_o without_o reason_n but_o shall_v grant_v unto_o you_o that_o the_o thing_n understand_v by_o those_o word_n may_v be_v there_o find_v as_o touch_v the_o thirteen_o which_o you_o here_o quote_v that_o speak_v nothing_o at_o all_o touch_v the_o business_n but_o whole_o concern_v the_o lapse_v catechumeni_fw-la and_o whereas_o you_o cite_v the_o twenty_o five_o twenty_o six_o and_o twenty_o seven_o canon_n of_o this_o council_n you_o do_v therein_o both_o wrong_v this_o council_n and_o yourselves_o in_o father_v upon_o they_o supposititious_a canon_n there_o be_v not_o above_o twenty_o canon_n that_o be_v genuine_a indeed_o it_o be_v well_o observe_v by_o lucas_n osiander_n after_o he_o have_v recite_v in_o his_o epitome_n of_o ecclesiastical_a history_n centur._n 4._o lib._n 2._o chap._n 10._o the_o twenty_o canon_n of_o this_o council_n and_o which_o only_o he_o judge_v to_o be_v genuine_a that_o there_o be_v other_o beside_o these_o that_o be_v read_v in_o some_o supposititious_a write_n of_o the_o father_n under_o the_o name_n of_o athanasius_n and_o ambrose_n but_o he_o judge_v they_o and_o that_o right_o to_o be_v false_o ascribe_v to_o the_o synod_n of_o nice_a perhaps_o you_o judge_v we_o to_o be_v so_o little_a conversant_a in_o the_o father_n and_o council_n as_o that_o we_o shall_v have_v let_v all_o these_o thing_n pass_v for_o currant_n if_o otherwise_o we_o see_v you_o be_v so_o addict_v to_o the_o episcopal_a cause_n that_o you_o matter_n not_o so_o you_o can_v make_v it_o out_o though_o it_o be_v out_o of_o supposititious_a write_n 2._o as_o to_o the_o main_a thing_n you_o cite_v this_o council_n for_o and_o that_o which_o indeed_o be_v chief_o to_o be_v here_o insist_v on_o sc_n the_o ancient_a custom_n that_o the_o six_o canon_n speak_v of_o touch_v the_o power_n and_o dignity_n of_o the_o metropolitan_n which_o yet_o be_v not_o such_o as_o you_o imagine_v at_o the_o first_o appoint_v they_o and_o of_o which_o more_o anon_o let_v it_o be_v grant_v as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o that_o this_o council_n do_v not_o constitute_v and_o create_v those_o metropolitan_o but_o confirm_v they_o and_o what_o power_n and_o dignity_n they_o have_v before_o according_a to_o a_o ancient_a custom_n yet_o we_o say_v that_o ancient_a custom_n be_v to_o be_v limit_v in_o in_o regard_n of_o its_o antiquity_n and_o 1._o it_o can_v refer_v so_o high_a as_o to_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n there_o be_v then_o no_o metropolitan_a bishop_n they_o be_v never_o at_o all_o mention_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n either_o by_o that_o name_n or_o the_o thing_n thereby_o signify_v 2._o neither_o can_v it_o refer_v to_o the_o age_n next_o unto_o the_o apostle_n because_o in_o that_o age_n and_o a_o good_a while_n after_o a_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n be_v all_o one_o we_o shall_v for_o the_o proof_n of_o this_o first_o mention_v a_o very_a observable_a passage_n in_o a_o letter_n write_v by_o the_o lord_n digby_n unto_o sir_n kenelmne_v digby_n and_o which_o for_o the_o observableness_n of_o it_o be_v cite_v by_o other_o 62._o and_o with_o good_a reason_n consider_v how_o much_o he_o be_v for_o that_o kind_n of_o episcopacy_n that_o you_o contend_v for_o his_o word_n be_v these_o he_o that_o will_v reduce_v the_o church_n now_o to_o the_o form_n of_o government_n in_o the_o most_o primitive_a time_n shall_v not_o take_v in_o my_o opinion_n the_o best_a nor_o wise_a course_n i_o be_o sure_a not_o the_o safe_a for_o he_o will_v be_v find_v peck_v towards_o the_o presbytery_n of_o scotland_n which_o for_o my_o part_n i_o believe_v in_o point_n of_o government_n have_v a_o great_a resemblance_n then_o either_o you_o or_o we_o to_o the_o first_o age_n of_o christ_n church_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v never_o a_o whit_n the_o better_a for_o it_o since_o it_o be_v a_o form_n not_o choose_v for_o the_o best_a but_o impose_v by_o adversity_n under_o oppression_n which_o in_o the_o beginning_n force_v the_o church_n from_o what_o it_o wish_v to_o what_o it_o may_v not_o suffer_v the_o dignity_n and_o state_n ecclesiastical_a which_o right_o belong_v unto_o it_o and_o which_o soon_o afterward_o upon_o the_o least_o lucida_fw-la interuâlla_fw-la shine_v forth_o so_o glorious_o in_o the_o happy_a as_o well_o as_o more_o monarchical_a condition_n of_o episcopacy_n etc._n etc._n you_o see_v this_o gentleman_n who_o be_v firm_a for_o monarchical_a episcopacy_n do_v yet_o acknowledge_v that_o in_o the_o most_o primitive_a time_n and_o first_o age_n of_o the_o church_n that_o kind_n of_o episcopacy_n have_v no_o foot_n and_o that_o the_o presbyterian_a government_n as_o it_o be_v in_o scotland_n and_o so_o consequent_o as_o it_o be_v in_o other_o reform_a church_n and_o with_o we_o be_v near_a to_o the_o primitive_a pattern_n of_o the_o church_n than_o that_o episcopal_a government_n which_o you_o will_v prove_v from_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o therefore_o in_o those_o time_n there_o be_v no_o such_o superiority_n of_o a_o bishop_n over_o a_o presbyter_n no_o archbishop_n and_o metropolitan_o or_o primate_fw-la and_o patriareh_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o and_o for_o which_o you_o quote_v this_o six_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a but_o if_o you_o will_v peruse_v blondellus_n he_o apologia_fw-la pro_fw-la sententiâ_fw-la hieronymi_n de_fw-la episcopis_fw-la &_o presbyteris_fw-la he_o will_v give_v you_o a_o particular_a and_o large_a account_n touch_v this_o matter_n he_o undertake_v to_o prove_v as_o he_o be_v a_o man_n of_o vast_a read_n that_o until_o the_o year_n 140._o or_o thereabouts_o there_o be_v not_o any_o bishop_n over_o presbyter_n and_o in_o the_o day_n of_o polycarpe_n we_o find_v in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o philippian_n but_o two_o order_n of_o ministry_n mention_v sc_n bishop_n and_o deacon_n according_a to_o what_o paul_n in_o his_o epistle_n to_o the_o church_n have_v signify_v more_o ancient_o hear_v his_o own_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d i._n e._n therefore_o you_o ought_v to_o abstain_v from_o all_o these_o thing_n be_v subject_a to_o the_o presbyter_n and_o deacon_n as_o unto_o god_n and_o christ_n and_o therefore_o this_o ancient_a custom_n mention_v in_o this_o six_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a which_o you_o quote_v must_v hereupon_o be_v limit_v and_o restrain_v in_o regard_n of_o ancientness_n and_o be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v so_o as_o to_o refer_v to_o the_o whole_a space_n of_o 327._o year_n after_o christ_n or_o thereabouts_o before_o its_o assemble_v although_o the_o custom_n of_o appoint_v metropolitan_n before_o may_v be_v call_v ancient_a comparative_o with_o those_o custom_n which_o be_v but_o spring_v up_o more_o late_o or_o be_v very_o new_a and_o though_o we_o shall_v not_o undertake_v to_o show_v what_o be_v the_o universal_a and_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o either_o the_o whole_a space_n of_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n or_o the_o great_a part_n thereof_o though_o it_o concern_v you_o who_o be_v so_o confident_a that_o the_o whole_a stream_n of_o testimony_n to_o be_v produce_v show_v the_o unanimous_a consent_n of_o father_n and_o the_o universal_a and_o constant_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n even_o up_o to_o the_o apostle_n day_n run_v so_o for_o episcopacy_n that_o there_o be_v not_o the_o least_o rivulet_n for_o any_o other_o to_o have_v make_v this_o out_o yet_o this_o we_o may_v say_v that_o episcopacy_n do_v not_o grow_v up_o to_o that_o height_n that_o it_o be_v in_o at_o that_o