Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	apostolical_a	church_n	tradition_n	4,989	5	9.5918	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18440	An answeare for the time, vnto that foule, and wicked Defence of the censure, that was giuen vpon M. Charkes booke, and Meredith Hanmers Contayning a maintenance of the credite and persons of all those woorthie men: namely, of M. Luther, Caluin, Bucer, Beza, and the rest of those godlie ministers of Gods worde, whom he, with a shamelesse penne most slanderously hath sought to deface: finished sometime sithence: and now published for the stay of the Christian reader till Maister Charkes booke come foorth.	Charke, William, d. 1617.	1583 (1583)	STC 5008; ESTC S107734	216,784	212

abhominable Idol of the Masse As for their authoritie out of their counterfet Hyppolitus whose testimonie yet they wrest against vs it cannot bee admitted for currant As for the antiquitie of our Churche wee proue it by the Testament of 〈◊〉 Christe And where the doctrine of this is confessed and receiued they cannot denie but there is the Church of God My sheepe saith Christ heare my voice they followe me and I giue them euerlasting life In deede it is not alwayes so visible vpon earth neither needeth it such a visible heade as the Pope is to whome as Saunders saith it must bee ioyned or els bee schismaticall It is enough that Christe is the head thereof to comfort it leade it and teach it Wee know that in the worlde iniquitie shall abounde All nations shall bee persecuted that loue his name Mat. 24. 9. And Paule mentioneth that there shall come an Apostacie before the comming of Christe that is a falling away of men from Christe to Antichriste 2. Thessa. 2. 4 1 Tim. 4. 2. and Saint Iohn saith that the kings of the earth and all nations shall worship Antichriste Apocalips 13. 16. and 18. 3. That also the churche for a time shall bee so hid and inuisible in the earth that Christe fore warneth his to beeware of them as of lyers that shall say Heere is Christe or there is Christe as it were to point out by places where the churche is Matthew 14. 23. And hee hath not appointed it to bee knowen by such 〈◊〉 Luk. 17. But as he saith where the carkasse is thither will the Eagles bee gathered so where Chiriste is holden by faith there is his churche which though oftentimes we see not in that beautie and glorie that were meet in that ministerie and gouernment which doe liuely paint her foorth as it were in her coulers yet we must bee of good comfort and not faint For such greeuous times are foretolde that our faith may bee strengthned I beleeue the holy Catholike Church and that as Paule saith The foundation standeth sure and hath this seale The Lord knoweth who be his 2. Tim. 1. 19. Now for consent wherein hee woulde haue vs to imbrace the definitions and opinions either of all or the most part of Priestes and teachers in Antiquitie what doth hee els heerein but goe about still to drawe vs from God to men What would he els but wrap vs in those inextricable Labyrynthes of mens opinions and contrarieties that we shoulde neuer bee able to wind 〈◊〉 and in meane time depriue vs of that worde of life Heerein also they not onely renue that great reproch of stainyng the scriptures with insufficiencie but also in a manner they despite the authour of them as though hee had not sufficiently prouided for them or had depriued them of that whiche is necessarie to their saluation As if there were more sufficiencie in men then in God as if men shoulde supplie that whiche God either coulde not or woulde not This they doe when they binde vs to their definitions and opinions of their priestes and teachers and yet dare call the booke of God a matter of strife affirming it to bee no direction nor guide but this to bee left to them and that in such an vnderstanding and meaning as they giue of it By them wee must vnderstand the church of Rome in whose interpretation without any further adoe we must rest vpon paine of the blacke curse and for this cause they binde all their generation to acknowledge that I may vse their owne words The holy Catholike and Apostolicall Church of Rome to bee the true mother of all churches and congregations And againe that the holy scripture is to bee beleeued according to such vnderstanding interpretation meaning signification as our mother the holy Church hath alwayes allowed for good and at this present doth to whome of right doeth appertaine to giue the scripture a right vnderstanding sense and interpretation yea her creatures most solemnely promise that they will neuer vnderstande not interprete the same otherwise then according to the interpretation of the fathers They haue therefore their speciall daliances in the interpretation shifting it off some time with a litterall sense some times with a spirituall sometimes it is allegoricall and sometimes it is Tropologicall and Anagogicall But of all it is not that it shoulde bee but they turne it and winde it like a weathercock to serue all turnes and to mainteine all their errours and when no way will serue their turne then they leaue them and runne to men I speake not this as though I denyed all these wayes of interpretation but to shew their shiftes that hauing deuised so many will cleaue to none but still stay vpon men in whose writinges there can bee no certaintie both because they agree not amongest them selues as also because their bookes and workes especially of the most auncient that were either in or next to the primatiue Churche haue not come vncorrupted to our handes many haue beene foysted out vnder the names of the best and others are 〈◊〉 And those that wee are agreed vpon haue many errours Who will admit for naturall children the bastarde writinges of Clemens Romanus who woulde haue both goods and wiues common of Dionisius Areopagita who builded forsooth a Temple and yet is said to haue been so poore that he had not a place to lay his head in of Ignatius of master Hardings Abdias of Martialis and of an infinite number of such like as farre vnlike the naturall children of auncient naturall fathers as you Papists are those fathers whose children you boast to bee and the Popes that are now those first good Bishops and martyres that were in Rome and yet spite of their heartes whether they wil or no you will bee their sonnes and wheresoeuer the name of churche is founde in any Doctor or father it must by and by bee vnderstood forsooth of that Babylonicall strumpet of Rome Such also is your succession vpon whiche you stande so much vsed as you say by the fathers against heretikes for proofe of their religion And yet who knoweth not that the succession whereof you boast is only personall Whereof Saint Augustine in his tyme spake not in that Epistle by you alleadged but had speciall regarde vnto truth from which thitherunto they had not declined in the greatest and most substancial points of religion and so may bee saide of the rest As for that ordinary succession the scripture is manifest that it faileth in the church as by the example of Ismael who followed Abraham and Esau who followed Isaack the Iewes at this day followe their fathers in all whom is the image of the churche and yet God chaunged this ordinarie course chose extraordinarily Isaack Iacob vs that be Gētiles the other 〈◊〉 because that first righteousnesse cleaueth in him and so of 〈◊〉 bee getteth

frō faith to works making them the cause of iustification breathing out his poysō with a sweet breath with sweete words couering his deadly venome Leuit. 20. Gen. 4. 1. Re. 22. 38. 3. Reg. 2. 37. Rom. 13. Iugdes 14. Mark this frūper at the phrase of the scripture As though if twenty had alledged one thing hee that alledged but ten or two had concealed the 〈◊〉 Reade 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Col. Censura Fol. 17 117. 220. Pet. a Soto contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psal. 119 1. Pet. 2. Iohn 15. Luke 15. 1. Tim. 3. Collos. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mulus 〈◊〉 seabit * In the disputations the last day when it was agreed that both sides should stay tyll their 〈◊〉 were set down In the preface to the dispu The 〈◊〉 which the Papists at 〈◊〉 require before they 〈◊〉 dispute What cause they had may appear by their own stories by the cruell death they were put to So doth Staphi Ius Ficklerus the rest to bring those that were sound godly into 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 14. 32 〈◊〉 a Soto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVittenb cap. de concilijs Alfonsus a Castro aduersus Heres lib. 1. cap. 8. Verractus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap. 24. c. 1. Cor. 〈◊〉 15. August 〈◊〉 de correctione 〈◊〉 cap. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Epi. cap. 3. Where knowledge and trial is to be sought August lib. 1. de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap. 1. ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. 〈◊〉 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Our doctrine the same that the Prophets Christ and his Apostles haue taught Papists 〈◊〉 all things for the praise of men Mat. 6. Read all the Fathers this shalbe found true Councels against Councels Fathers against fathers Lib. 〈◊〉 Reade their workes who shal and they shal find in thē iudging thē by the Scriptures 〈◊〉 Illirie lib. de 〈◊〉 Papist Traditions infinite variable vnnecessary hurtful offensiue See their Pontificall their masse booke and such other good stuffe 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 Catechisme See the harmonie of the confessions of the Churches that cleare vs from this slaunder VVhē Luthers booke De captiuitate Babilonica was written King Henrie not the head of the Church as the Papistes vnderstand by head in their Antichrist Heretikes are to be cut off not such as they cal Heretikes but suche as they are thēselues who are proued to be Heretikes by Gods word This also he handleth afterwardes Concerning Luthers heat 〈◊〉 The 〈◊〉 of the Papists The papistes account that a fault in vs which they challenge them selues VVho vse grea ter libertie the Papists or we we that onelie keep our selues to the scripture or they that roue vp and downe are boūded within no lists or boundes Chrisost. in Ioh. bomil 16. 〈◊〉 3. in opere imperfecto Ioh. 10. 2. Pet. 1. 20. 2. Tim 3. 17. 〈◊〉 Ioh. 4. Testamente 〈◊〉 in the annotat vpon 1. Tim. cap. 2. Lut. Cortez in li. 3. distin 3. 〈◊〉 Aquin. Iohn de 〈◊〉 Cremata Iren aus lib. 1. Epiphanius August Read Tapperus Ficklerus the whole broode of them This may appeare through out S. August in many places They that denie the offices of Christ his kingdome priesthood prophetshippe they denie Christe Ephe. 4. For he meneth by Puritās not the Anabaptists spiritual illuminates but those that dutiefully seek the reformation of the Church 〈◊〉 Heb. 10. 11. c. Authoritie of the Pope vsurped The Masse an Idoll of the Popes making patched togeather by many long after Christes ascention 〈◊〉 7. 9 See there how trimly they alleadged interpreted the 〈◊〉 in defence of 〈◊〉 images Syricius The place 〈◊〉 of the 19. of 1. Tim. 4. 〈◊〉 Sozomenus So 〈◊〉 onius Tutelares dei Camp in Epist. set out by 〈◊〉 us In Paris a great 〈◊〉 against Iesuits and wheresoeuer they come where other such vermine are like vipers they gnaw out the bellies one of another Hier. in Epist. ad Eustochiū ad Rusticum Concil 〈◊〉 Concil 〈◊〉 Quest. 16. sub 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Guliel de sancto amore Nicolaus de Cle. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Real presence An. bros hb. 〈◊〉 Sacra cap. 〈◊〉 And. in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 11. Lib. de Sacra Lib. in Iob. 4. cap. 14. In 〈◊〉 22. This also he mētioneth afterward where looke for further answeare Vowes Psal. 76 Perfection in selling all Things spokē to singuler persons in respect not simply The place of Iames concerning Iustification 2. Cor. 9. Fathers Our owne writers Who is Caietane or Conturene against the whole Church Disputation Peter Martir first Latimer Ridley Cranmer at Oxeford in Queen Maries dayes Maister Philpot M. Elmer Haddon Cheney and the rest that disputed in the Cōuocatiō house 1553. Octob. 18. Reade M. Foxes booke of Acts and Monuments printed in 1570. fol. 1571. fol. 1579 in manie places Conference at VVestminster anno primo Regni Eliza. 〈◊〉 King 17. 4 Reade the spanish Inquisitiō Acts monuments of M. Foxe M. Cryspius historie in French of their martyrs and the last French history of the beginning grouth of the churches in Fraunce Popish writers 〈◊〉 agreed yet about the Canonical scriptures whiche are the bookes and matching their constitutions with Gods word 〈◊〉 20. cap. de libellis dist 19. cap. in Canonicis Agath dist 19. cap. Sic omnes Read August vpō this place and Hierome vpon 38. of Esay Ephe. 6. Gathered out of their 〈◊〉 Bibles Mat. 26. Luke 22. Luke 23. Rom. 8. Reed Rationale Diuinorū Gab. Biel Vaux his Catechism and there you shall see suche misteries fetched out of the scriptures as are pitifull to heare VVhy salte creame spitle are vsed why they haue lights at noone dayes why bels ringe not on good Friday but they vse wodden clappers and suche 〈◊〉 stuffe General 〈◊〉 Reade Onuphrius ioyned with Platina in his Epitom Doctors Consent in the truth allowed by vs. Vniuersalitie antiquitie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Catholique what it meaneth Howe wee are departed because they are gone from the truth 〈◊〉 Tim. 4. 1. Aug. con Epist. 〈◊〉 cap. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The 〈◊〉 worst great consent in 〈◊〉 In their 〈◊〉 Testament set out by the scho lers of 〈◊〉 ful of ridiculous 〈◊〉 1. Thes. 2. Ioh. 10. In his 〈◊〉 before his booke of images Diui. 17. 76. c. * Belarmi quest 5. in dicta scriptis Cocleus Hosius Pet. a 〈◊〉 Stapletonus 〈◊〉 7. lib. 2. cap. 12. saith that faith is not learned out of the scriptures Again that the holy ghost teacheth the church many things without thescripture Censu Colonien fol. 2 20. Andradi lib. 2 Concil Trident. Andradius in defen Conc. Tri. priest of Potiers of Later an in conc 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Papae Eccius Verractus Pighius de Hierarch The impietie of the papistes in interpreting the holy scriptures In antididagmate Colo. sol 17. The doctors corrupted and many bastarde writings vnder their names thrust vpon vs. Euseb. li. 3. 〈◊〉 38 Nicepb lib. 3. cap 18. Epipha 〈◊〉 1. to 2. beresis 38. 〈◊〉 in vita Clem 〈◊〉 Gennadi in catal

reason of his high place gay apparrell great wordes assistance of friendes c. It is but a stale lying 〈◊〉 to fill vp the booke for 〈◊〉 man is sufficiently knowen to stand vpon none of these things If God strengthened his ministerie to daunt suche an aduersarie which is the thing that most stingeth you wee praise God for it Whether his dealing be false or true for which by your assignement hee may weare the garland hee will sufficiently declare in his answere Hee is olde enough to answere for himselfe and when these examples come wee shall consider of them I loue not to bring sod Colewortes twise that is a propertie belonging to the papists and fittest for them that will receiue no answere That question allo concerning concupiscence which is the greatest bulk of your booke shal at this time be omitted of mee as being often handeled in other places As for his other trickes which you say proceed not of negligence simplicitie or ignorance but must needes bee of set malice as for example the repeating of diuers vntruths out of Gotuisus concerning the lesuites you say in the first booke hee concealed the authours name whiche is most false For he nameth him often in that booke Now you say necessitie compelling him he confesseth Wherein you discredite your selfe and bring credite to him that hee doth not conceale them but yet you say finding in his owne conscience the things to bee false which he reporteth whereas his authour citeth alwayes two bookes Censura Coloniensis and Canisius great Catechisme he citeth but one and that not to bee had which is another lye and omitteth the other whiche sheweth the falshood both of M. Chark and of his authour Yea which is more when Gotuisus did not belie the Iesuites sufficiently M. Charke without blushing will falsifie his wordes to make them more odious Is not heere a merueilous long threed drawen out of a little flaxe and no bottome What a fine spinster is this that can make so much of a little of concealing the one and aduouching the other As though men were alwayes bounde to alleadge all and in the very wordes of their authours also might not choose amongest store which to alleadge or as though one authour were not to be cited vpon the credit of another but all the rest must bee discredited whye doeth not sir Robert confute Gotuisus and so make way to confute master Charke But as he vseth in other thinges so in this hee leapeth ouer hilles and dales and when hee shoulde ouercome the formost he striketh at the the hindmost and when hee cannot touche the hearte hee hitteth the heele But what are the matters forsooth that Gotuisus saith the Iesuites holde The Scripture is as it were a nose of waxe and master Charke saith theyr wordes are the Scriptures are a nose of waxe What els O infinite such things in the treatise whiche sheweth master Chark to bee a man of no sinceritie Is not heere wonderfull a doe about nothing But I pray you what difference is there doth not hee say that the scripture is a nose of waxe that saith it is as a nose of waxe that may bee turned and wrested which way a man will Is not their doctrine generall to derogate from the authoritie of the scripture that it is a dead letter a matter of strife dark maymed vncertaine a nose of waxe a leaden rule a lesbeian building an occasion of all heresies which comprehendeth not all thinges necessary to saluation Is not this doctrine as full in abhomination as that allegation And therefore Cardinall Hosius worse then any Anabaptist saith That it is a vaine labour that is bestowed vppon the Scripture whiche is bestowed as vppon a dead and beggerly element that rather wee must looke for voyces from heauen that must instructe vs. This is the foundation of all their vnwritten verities of man his traditious which they preferre before the worde of God because as Andradius saith It often times commeth to passe that hee is wrapped in a greater wickednesse that breaketh the Ecclesiasticall traditions then those that are Goddes adding that example of the Sacrament in one kinde c. And yet who knoweth not that the holy Scripture commendeth the Scripture vnto vs as a light shining in a darke place vntill the day breake foorth And Christe himselfe though they woulde haue vs to shunne them 〈◊〉 vs to search them as those that witnesse vnto his both his nature and his will Abraham also signifieth to the ritche man that was in hell that his brethren were to bee taught out of Moses and the 〈◊〉 to the ende they might bee deliuered and obtaine euerlasting saluation So Paule affirmeth to Timothie that all Scripture is inspired from aboue and comprehendeth all thinges necessarie to the perfection of saluation Nowe hee wrote this Epistle when in a manner all the Apostolicall writings were committed to writing as may appeare out of the fourth Chapter And concerning your traditions Christ saith They worship me in vaine with the precepts of men and Paul plainely condemneth that will worship in the second to the Collossians For his behauiour towards Campion in the Tower whome you so highly aduaunce for singuler learning those that were present can tell the vanitie of this accusation Hee gaue him no vncomely wordes but such as became both his owne person and his to whom he spake The one being a godly man standing for the truth and the other an enemie traitour both against god and it There was not any one word vttered of barbarous threat onely hee might when hee was insolent bee put in minde of his place and condition Of the like vanitie is it that you tell of his turning and speaking to the people that they shoulde prayse God for his good argument and of shutting the dores to keepe the people in to heare his prayer Hee might perhaps now and then as reason was admonish the people to beware of suche a runnagate Fryer who hauing challenged our whole churche shewed himselfe so insufficient to maintaine his owne cause As for hatred in his hart putting it in execution it is too malitious to be suspected of master Charke or any such of his profession You are the blood suckers the malicious men whose furie could neuer yet be otherwise quéched then with the effusion of christian blood If I lye thē let all the places and countries where euer you ruled witnes against mee If master Charke had had such malice as you say yet how could hee put it in execution being a priuate man To whome did he euer complaine What inditement did hee euer drawe or cause to bee drawne against him Where did he euer goe or intermeddle in any these matters but when and wherein hee was called But you may lye by authoritie For here are no lesse then fiue together one that he dealt inciuilie Another that hee commended his argument

they be As for other thinges without that compasse we refuse not such trials as are 〈◊〉 for them also But he sayeth This is a shifte common to all 〈◊〉 suche as Maister Charke is And the cause thereof Augustine doth testifie of the Heretikes of his time But first he should haue prooued vs Heretikes and then haue giuen vs that name August testifieth truely that al Heretikes abuse the letter of the Scriptures as doe the Papistes Anabaptists Familie of loue and such others But is not this a good 〈◊〉 Heretikes catche at the letter and wordes of the Scriptures to mainteine their errors Ergo the scriptures are not the touch stone to try al spirits by yea but 〈◊〉 are other thinges to trie the meaning of the scriptures by what are they Forsooth the sense of the Churche Of what churche Forsooth of that Synagogue of Rome of her Doctours of her generall councelles and such like conspiracies and I cannot tell what As though the scripture written by Gods spirite shoulde bee expounded by the spirites of men and of such Erroneous men as from time to time by the scriptures haue been founde to 〈◊〉 the sonne of God as though there should bee vncertaintie in GOD and certaintie in these men Emptinesse in 〈◊〉 writings of the Apostles and 〈◊〉 in their balde and absurde 〈◊〉 especially when they haue deliuered That the Scriptures are to be fitted to the tyme and to be vnderstood 〈◊〉 so that at one time they are to be expounded according to the vniuersal currant rite or ceremonie But if that ceremonie be changed then the sentence is to be changed Againe if the Churches iudgement be changed why then Gods iudgemēt is also changed Farther the scripture as touching the letter is not of the essēce of the church which may be vtterly destroyed by a Tyrant but it is the spirit that quickeneth 〈◊〉 Prierias Eckius Hogstratus holde that the Pope alone may determine all matters of faith and that the Pope may expounde the scripture as he wil. Habet authoritatem interpretandi sacram Scripturam authoritatinè pro suo sensu Therefore what may we hope for concerning the Synagogue of Rome that challengeth to be iudge ouer all seeyng it is prooued by the practise of it that sometime they interprete the scripture one waye and somtime another as afterwardes may appeare by their contradictory doctrines But here M Defender putteth downe three causes why these newe Teachers appeale 〈◊〉 to Scripture Wee must by the way endure 〈◊〉 names without anie proofe when it is euident that they are the newe Teachers and we the old teaching the same doctrine that Moses the Prophetes Christ his Apostles and all holie Martyrs haue taught and professed according to that worde 〈◊〉 the beginning of the world and they resisting it and persecuting it But what are these three Forsooth the first is to gette credite with the people The seconde because we woulde exclude Counselles Fathers and Auncetours of the Churche who from time to time haue declared the true sense of scripture vnto vs that wee might haue libertie and authoritie to make what meaning wee list and thereby giue colour to euerie fansie wee list to teache The thirde because wee woulde deliuer our selues from all ordinaunces or doctrines lefte vnto vs by the first pillers of Christe his Churche not expressely set downe c. For the first whether it bee a way to get credite to cleaue to the worde of GOD with the common people let them iudge that knowe howe contrarye it is to mans corruption onelye to relye vppon it Indeede it deserueth credite with all when they shall see that wee iustifie God in his woorde and forsake our owne testimonies and the testimonies of 〈◊〉 and blood 〈◊〉 who made him a God to knowe our purpose and to enter into our heartes We leaue it to all the worlde to iudge whether they hunt not more for the prayse of the 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 of men then we doe who like proude Pharisies doe whatsoeuer they doe to be seene of men and to be praysed of them And therefore bring the scriptures of God into captiuitie vnder men and vnder their interpretation to flatter them withall And so in other thinges they fast and praye openly at euery piller and euery streete they giue their almes like 〈◊〉 blase their vainglorious good woorkes to all men c which also sheweth the purpose of their heart For the second touching Councels Fathers 〈◊〉 c. Wee indeede exclude them from being eyther aboue or equall with the worde of God we make them not Iudges though some tymes in matters of storie to shewe the practise of the Churche wee admitte them for witnesses The 〈◊〉 is because Generall councelles haue erred and haue beene one agaynst another one Doctour agaynst another and diuers tymes against them selues The seconde Councell of Ephesus was agaynst the Councell of Chalcedon the one condemning and the other absoluing Eutiches The second of Nice 〈◊〉 that of Franckford about images The first of Nice and those of 〈◊〉 Mentz and of Carthage about the marriage of Ministers Those of Constance and Basill against those of Florence and Trent about your holy fathers vsurped Supremacy and so of diuers others Concerning Fathers and Doctors whether you meane the former or the later it is so also of them For if councels gathered together in the name of God hearing eche others reasons and debating matters for finding out of truth haue yet thus iarred to the end we should not rest vpon them as iudges but onelie vpon the Scriptures what are wee like to finde amōgst men yea amongst the eldest and what then amongest the latest If in the eldest as in Irenae the errour of the Chiliastes in Cyprian Anabaptisme in Tertullian the heresie of Montanus that there should come a new holie Ghost a new Prophesie also condemning seconde marriages and denying it to be lawful to flie in time of persecution In Origene in finite which Hierom writing to 〈◊〉 hath noted before vs and so in all the rest howe may wee bee iudged by them we speake not of those that you count errours but suche as are errours indeede both with you and vs. What shal we say then of Thomas and Scotus and your other schoole men foole men What shal wee say of your other late writers of your Popes of their Canons in al times It would fil a whole volume to declare al their errours and dissentions O But we cleaue to onely scripture that we might deliuer our selues from traditions which you call ordinaunces and doctrines of men and surely we haue also good cause so to do For as they are infinite variable so also they are impious and ridiculous neither fitte nor possible to be kept If any can be proued out of the word of God as deriued from those first pillers of his Church containing in

them to honestie not to villanie as it is too euident they did when scarse amongest a number fewe escaped from their filthie abuse by which they were defloured many bastardes begotten and murthered many buggeries con tinually committed against the worde of God As for the Arrians Saint Augustine had good cause disputing against them that abused the scripture in that same sacred misterie of the Trinitie to stande vpon that liuely tradition of the Apostles which is no suche thing as you intende by tradidion contrary to the written word of God but the same was receiued from hande to hand agreed with the doctrine of Christe and his Apostles written and set downe to all posteritie In this respect that misterie of beleeuing in the father the sonne and the holy Ghoste was so called in the councell of Constantinople by Tertullian and Basill and of such like speaketh the Apostle when hee saith Holde fast those traditions which you haue receiued eyther by our worde or by our Epistle In this respect Augustine disputing against Maximinus an heretike appealeth to the tradition of the Apostles But what serueth this to maintaine your false named traditions vnder the name of the Apostles that are but byrdes hatched yesterday yet calow and scarse couered with feathers as vnlike those whom you woulde make their dammes as your selues are who in all thinges are degenerated from them Of like consequence for proofe of your Masse Altars Chalices Chrisme and Priestes vestiments is that you set downe as you say noted by Optatus before Augustine Surely the place by you alleadged serueth as little to your helpe as the other Wee denie not but that in the waste made by those barbarous Vandalles There was great spoyle in the iust iudgemente of God brought vpon the churche all kinde of learning ceasing almost and the monuments thereof being vtterly decayed which one of your great pillers master Harding saith was because of their schisme from the church of Rome which was neither so nor so in which yet Rome it selfe was taken possessed and 〈◊〉 by sundrie men aboue 6. times in a small space But would you hereby insinuate your Idolatrous Masse which then had not halfe the Idolatrous patches that since haue been added woulde you insinuate your chalices which then were no otherwise knowen and taken then as cuppes fit for that seruice woulde you insinuate your aulters of stone that tooke their first beginning from Pope Sixtus as both Uolateran Vernerius testifie For as in Christs time there were not many temples builded so there were not many alters erected and therefore in Origens time it was obiected by Celsus that they had neither images nor aulters nor temples and so Arnobius sayth that the Heathen cast this likewise in their teeth whereby it appeareth that in their times the church was not acquainted with your prophanations In deede the name of Masse of latter times hath been vsed but it sheweth not that it was vsed then or that it was yours wherof they spake I mean your priuat Masse no it was the communion and according to that they had tables of wood and no aulters They might sometime call the communion tables by the name of aulters as also some other things by those names that you yet retaine but this was by Metaphor and as a man would say improperly rather for the receiued maner of speech of the auncient worship instituted vnder the lawe before the comming of Christe whilest sacrifices endured then now to prooue such a blasphemous sacrifice or aulter as yours is For Siluester the first as some of you write though falsly was he that commanded that none shoulde consecrate at a woodden aulter and Bonifacius was he that first deuided the priest from the people And S. Augustine complaineth that the Donatistes on a time in great rage brake the boords of the aulter and wounded the priestes And that they were made of wood and stoode in the middest of the Church c. It may appeare by this that hee saith it was the subdeacons office to remoue the table which he could not haue done if either it had beene of stone or fast fixed against any wall Eastward as your superstitious maner is And is this your burning charitie to compare vs with those barbarous heretikes the Donatists or those Vandals being in deede Arrians as all the rest were that made suche hauocke not onely of the Churche of Rome but of the Churches in Affricke of Antioche of Hippo where Augustine was and sundrie others These were madde against the truth and we stand for it It is not we that trouble Israell but Achab and his fathers house Is it all one to rage againste the people of God to execute Gods sentence vpon Baals priests For with as good right Baals priestes might haue blamed Helias and Helizeus Iehu and such godly princes for destroying their aulters ouerthrowing their temples shedding their blood as you blame and charge vs. The difference is plaine they were Donatistes and Arrians wee Christians they like sauage and brutish Boares brake in vpon the Lords inheritance we labour to keepe out such Boars Wolues and beastes as you are and haue proued your selues to bee The same may bee saide of that obiected by Basill against Iulian the 〈◊〉 his fellowes You are the Iulians and wee those whome you persecute in Christe in his members But for qualities we shall say more hereafter For your contentednesse to admit now what soeuer triall wee will for the finding out of your spirites surely wee cannot but congratulate your kindenesse But is this the opinion of all your fellowes or of yourselfe alone If of all then let vs see their handes authentikclie vppon recorde deliuered vnto vs. Once wee are sure of this that it is against their generall doctrine as hath beene saide before If it bee or your selfe that I may vse your owne phrase you are somewhat too cockishe against the common opinion of your Church to offer so franckly and yet as you saide to M. Hanmer I thinke when it shall come to triall you shall be none of the disputers As for that you write that you are not daunted For that Campion and Sherwinn that were foreward that way are taken away by death surely we thinke so If the tryall of your cause had depended vppon them then your religion had falne with their treason And thankes be to God howe harde soeuer your heartes bee yet you haue and had cause to feare seeing vnder pretence of Disputation they were prooued to practise 〈◊〉 and to establish an Antichristian iurisdiction against the crowne dignitie and peace of our Soueraigne Queene and Princesse I giue you warning therefore before Looke ere you leape for without doubt your religion and treason are so clasped and twined together that they will hardly bee sundered Woulde you dispute with vs who are to bee shunned Come you to