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A51741 A reformed catechism. The first dialogue in two dialogues concerning the English Reformation / collected for the most part, word for word out of Dr. Burnet, John Fox, and other Protestant historians ; published for the information of the people in reply to Mas William Kings answer to D. Manby's considerations &c. ; by Peter Manby. Manby, Peter, d. 1697. 1687 (1687) Wing M388; ESTC R30509 77,561 110

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finding that nothing went so near the King's Heart Edward VI as the ruin of Religion which he apprehended would follow upon his Death when his Sister Mary should come to the Crown upon that he and his party took advantage to propose to him to settle the Crown by his Letters Patents on the Lady Jane Grey then newly married to Guilford Dudley Northumberlands fourth Son how they prevailed with him to pass by his Sister Elisabeth who had been always much in his Favour I do not so well understand But the King being wrought over to this on the 11th of June Mountague Chief Justice of the Common-Pleas Baker and Bromly two Judges with the King's Attorney and Solicitor were commanded to come to Council There they found the King with some Privy-Councellors about him The King told them he did now apprehend the danger the Kingdom might be in by the Succession of his Sister Mary So he ordered some Articles to be read to them of the way in which he would have the Crown to descend They objected that an Act of Parliament could not be taken away by any such Device yet the King required them to take the Articles and draw a Book according to them They asked a little time to consider of it So having examined the Statute of the first year of his Reign they found that it was Treason not only after the King's Death but in his life time to change the Succession Secretary Petre in the mean time pressed them to make haste When they came again to the Council they declared they could not do any such thing for it was Treason And all the Lords should be Guilty of Treason if they went on in it Upon which the Duke of Northumberland who was not then in the Council Chamber being advertised of this came in great Fury calling Mountague a Traitor But the Judges stood to their Opinion They were again sent for and came on the 15th of June The King was present and somewhat sharply asked them why they had not prepared the Book as he had ordered them They answered that whatever they did would be of no force without a Parliament But the King said he would have it first done and then ratified in Parliament and therefore required them on their Allegiance to go about it and some Councellors told them if they refused to Obey that they were Traytors This put them in a great Consternation and Old Mountague thinking it could not be Treason whatever they did in this matter while the King lived and at worst that a Pardon under the great Seal would secure him consented to set about it if he might have a Commission requiring him to do it and a Pardon when it was done both these being granted him he was satisfyed The other Judges being asked if they would concur did all agree being overcome with fear except Hales But Cranmer still refused to do it after they had all signed it and said he would never consent to the Disinheriting of the Daughters of his late Master Many Consultations were had to perswade him to it but he could not be prevailed on till the King himself set on him who used many Arguments from the danger Religion would otherwise be in together with other Perswasions so that by his Reasons or rather Importunities at last he brought him to it NOTE The Doctors excuse for this unjust Act of Cranmers importunity the same that naughty Women are said to pretend for their Incontinency If he did this only as submitting to his Princes importunity how came he after King Edward 's Death to Subscribe the aforesaid Letter And to do both after he had said he he would never consent to the disinheriting of King Henry 's Children The Reader may now understand the reason why he answered little or nothing to the Treason objected to him by the Bishop of Glocester because there was too much Truth in it And methinks this excuse which Burnet makes for him does him no service namely that he stood off a good while but at last with much a do was perswaded into this Conspiracy against K. Henry 's Children How does this answer the Character which Fox gives of him in causes pertaining to God and his Prince no Man more stout no Man more constant then he But whether he was in reality so unwilling to this Action is a question which the indifferent Reader may easily resolve Since he could not but apprehend that Queen Mary would call him to an account for the troubles he had brought upon her Mother and indeed upon the whole Church and Kingdom of England For amongst all the English Bishops anno 1533. King Henry could not find such another Person as Burnet confesses to serve him in the See of Canterbury Now as for Mountague Chief Justice of the Common Plea's and the rest of the Judges who at last consented to the advancement of Lady Jane Grey you may observe them scrupling the matter not out of Conscience but apprehension of the Law. All that they desired was to be indemnified from the danger of Law. A. Now go on to relate how he acquitted himself of the other particulars laid to his Charge Heresie Perjury Incontinency B. Although he answered nothing to the Bishop of Glocester concerning the point of Treason yet I remember somewhat in Fox which he reply'd to Doctor Martyn the Queen's Proctor viz. I protest before God I was no Traytor but indeed I confessed more at my Arraignment than was true Martyn returns that is not to be reasoned at this present you know you were condemned for a Traytor Fox page 653. 3 Vol. A. Is there no more in Fox as to that point B. Not a word more that I can find A. Then proceed as to the particular of Heresie B. John Foxes words are these As for the matter of Heresie and Schism wherewith he was charged he protested and called God to witness that he knew none that he maintained But if that were an Heresie to deny the Popes Authority and the Religion which the See of Rome hath published to the World these later years then the Apostles and Christ himself taught Heresie and he desired all then present to bear him witness that he took the Traditions and Religion of that usurping Prelate to be most false erroneous and against the Doctrine of the whole Scripture That he is the very Antichrist so often preached of by the Apostles and Prophets For it was most evident that he had advanced himself above all Emperors and Kings of the World whom he affirmeth to hold their Estates and Empires of him as their Chief and to be deposed at his good Will and Pleasure That he hath brought in Gods of his own Framing and invented a new Religion full of Gain and Lucre. This Enemy of God and of our Redemption is so evidently painted out in the Scriptures by such manifest Signs and Tokens that except a man will shut up his Eyes and Heart against the
Dublin Castle Oct. 28. 1687. Let this Discourse be printed Tho. Sheridan By the Lords Diae Lunae 3. Januarii 1680. ORdered by the Lords Spiritual and Temporal in Parliament Assembled That the Thanks of this House be given to Dr. Burnet for the great Service done by him to this Kingdom and the Protestant Religion in writing the History of the Reformation of the Church of England so truly and exactly And that he be desired to proceed in the perfecting what he further intends therein with all convenient speed Jo. Brown Cler. Parliamentorum By the Commons Jovis 23. Die Decemb. 1680. ORdered That the Thanks of This House be given to Dr. Burnet for the Book Intituled The History of the Reformation of the Church of England Will. Goldesbrough Cleric Dom. Com. Mercurii 5. Die Januarii 1680. ORdered that Dr. Burnet be desired to proceed with and compleat that good Work by him begun in Writing and Publishing The History of the Reformation of the Church of England Will. Goldesbrough Cler. Dom. Com. A REFORMED CATECHISM IN TWO DIALOGUES CONCERNING The ENGLISH REFORMATION COLLECTED For the most part Word for Word out of Dr. Burnet John Fox and other Protestant Historians PUBLISHED For the INFORMATION of the PEOPLE IN REPLY to Mas William Kings ANSWER to D. Manby's Considerations c. The FIRST DIALOGUE By Peter Manby D. of Londonderry Memento dierum antiquorum cogita generationes singulas interroga Patrem tuum annunciabit tibi Majores tuos dicent tibi Deut. 32.7 Printed by Nathaniel Thompson in the Old Spring-Garden 1687. TO THE READER Reader HE that would undertake to shew us a new or better way to Heaven then either we or our Forefathers have been acquainted with ought in all reason to recommend himself as the Apostles did by some other Authority then a bare pretence to Scripture which every body claims as well as he unless we would be tossed too and fro as Saint Paul speaks and carried about with every Wind of Doctrine with the various Lights of all Reformers Cranmer was this new undertaker who had neither Mission from Heaven nor consent of the English Bishops to Authorize his Reformation nor yet any great mind to dye a Martyr for the same as will appear in the ensuing History Now I pray observe these words of Mas William King page 21. of his Answer to Mr. Manby viz. We own what he contends for that both true Doctrine and external and lawful Mission are generally necessary to a regular Preacher of the Gospel and if either of these are wanting the Person is not to be received Here if it can be demonstrated that Cranmer had no Orders either as Priest or Bishop but only to celebrate Mass to preach the Doctrine of the Church of Rome to bind and absolve Sinners there is an end of the Controversie If he had no Mission at all to preach the Doctrine of XXXIX Articles then by Mas William King's own Confession he was not to be received And for this Reader be pleased to read from page 81. of this Catechism to page 91. And where he says page 25 of his Answer that Cranmer in all he did had the unanimous vote and consent of the major part of the Convocation the universal submission of the Clergy and approbation of the People c. And a little after but if the Clergy in a National Council and the people in obedience to them or from their own Inclinations did comply in earnest what an idle question is it for Mr. M. to ask by what Authority Cranmer condemned that Church from whom he received his Mission and Holy Orders when she concurred in all he did and approved nay made all the Alterations in her Liturgy Sacraments and Constitutions that were made Now if it appear that all the English Bishops except a very few during the Reign of Henry VIII were utterly against his pretended Reformation and that almost all the Bishops under Edward VI. were turned out of their Sees for dissenting from it and others substituted in their places what shall we think of Mr. Kings Confidence thus imposing upon his Readers What shall become of his Answer to Mr. M. the whole strength whereof depends upon these words that the major Vote of the Convocation concurred in all he did and approved all the Alterations that were made page 25. Read Burnet relating the concerns of the Church upon King Edward's Succession to the Crown and you shall find all affairs dispatch'd by the Privy Council and two Houses of Parliament the Bishops generally dissenting The Convocation says Heylin ad annum 1547. the first year of King Edward was not impowr'd to act in any publick business for ought appearing on Record Hist Reform p. 50. Third Edition And further Note what he says ad annum 1551. the fifth year of King Edward but notwithstanding the remove of so many Bishops there still remained one rub in the way which did much retard the Progress of the Reformation the Princess Mary having been bred up in the Romish Religion could not be won by any Perswasions to change her Mind c. page 102. Burnet says several of the Bishops under King Edward submitted to the Reformation against their Consciences Which only amounts to what I affirm in this Catechism that the Reformation was not the Act and Deed of the old Clergy but impos'd on the Nation by the Power and Interest of a few persons for their own advantage Let us imagine if the late Duke of Monmouth had prospered and then summoned an Assembly of the English Bishops to reform the Church as he and his Party had designed and they generally dissenting should carry all things by strong hand whether such a Reformation passing with the consent of a few Bishops and a few other Clergymen could be reputed the Act aod Deed of the Church of England But if you would see an Instance of Mr. Kings modest way of writing against the Pope and Church of Rome read pag. 35. of his Answer where he tells you of the Popes wicked Management of the Goods of the Church and giving the Patrimony of the Church to Lay-men to useless and idle Monks and Fryars c. And for an Instance of his Loyalty see page 37. where he excuses Cranmer for subscribing to a Letter for Excluding his lawful Sovereign the Princess Mary from Succession to the Crown It was a point of Law saith he in which Cranmer was not singular Mr. M. takes the liberty to question Queen Elizabeths Title and sure it was no greater fault in Cranmer to question Queen Marys after the Opinion of the Judges given against her mark that There is a great difference between Rebellion against the King of undoubted Title and being engaged on a side where the Title is really doubtful c. that is to say Cranmer was engaged on the side of Lady Jane Grey Queen Marys Title being really doubtful And why was it doubtful Mr. King gives you the
needeth no Consecration by the Scripture for Election or Appointing thereunto is sufficient This all the Bishops contradicted except Saint Davids saying that the Apostles made Priests by imposition of Hands with Fasting and Prayer and Dr. Redmayn said the Office of Priesthood is too dangerous a thing to be undertaken to be set upon are his words when one is but appointed only therefore for the Confirmation of their Faith who take in hand such a Charge and for the obtaining of further Grace requisite to the same Consecration was ordained by the holy Ghost and hath been always used from the beginning page 230. 4. To this Question whether a Christian Prince having conquered certain Dominions of Infidels and having none about him but Lay-men He and They may not by the Law of God Preach and Teach God's Word and also make and constitute Priests Cranmer Answers positively It is not against God's Law but contrary they ought indeed so to do and there be Histories that witness that some Christian Princes and other Lay men unconsecrate have done the same Reader The English Bishops perhaps were not aware of his design in proposing this and such like Questions which was to nooze them into a Concession under their Hands that the Prince might Preach himself and Authorize others to preach Reformation in case of necessity that is If his Clergy and Bishops would not comply as Cranmer knew they would not 5. To this Question Whether a Man is bound by the Authority of this Scripture Quorum remiseritis peccata remissa sunt c. to Confess his secret deadly Sins to a Priest He answers point blank that no Man is bound All the Bishops and Clergy three or four excepted honestly affirming that by Authority of those words Christians are bound to Confess their secret as well as open Sins That Priests are bound to give Absolution but no Priest can Absolve from that Sin which he knows not Doctor Tresham answered Such Confession is a thing most Consonant to the Law of God and that it is a wise point and a wholsome thing so to do And God said he provoketh and allureth us thereunto by giving active Power to Priests to Absolve in these words Whosoever Sins ye remit they are remitted c. It is also a safer way for Salvation to Confess if we may have a Priest page 238. Collections Doctor Edgeworth answered worthily that to obtain Remission of Sin and Recover the Grace of God a Man is bound by the Law of Nature to take the surer way And because said he we are bound to Love God above all things we ought by the same Bond to seek the best and surest Remedy for the Recovery of his Grace Contrition is one way but because a Man cannot be well assured whether his Contrition Attrition or Displeasure for his Sins be sufficient to satisfie Almighty God or worthy to obtain his Grace therefore it is necessary to take that way that will not fail and by which thou mayest be sure and that is Absolution by the Priest which by Christ's promise will not deceive thee so that thou put no obstacle or bar in the way that is if thou do not then actually Sin inwardly or outwardly but intend to receive what the Church intends to give Thee by that Absolution Now the Priest can give thee no Absolution from that Sin which he knows not therefore thou art bound to confess thy Sin. Thus Doctor Edgeworth page 237. Burnet's Collections I wish Cranmer had half the honesty or piety of this Man. Doctor Leighton answered I think such only as have not the knowledge of the Scripture be bound to confess their secret deadly Sins unto a Priest Howbeit no Man ought to despise such Auricular Confession for I suppose it to be a Tradition Apostolical necessary for the unlearned Multitude Thus he page 238. Collections 6. To this Question Whether only Bishops and Priests may Excommunicate by God's Law he answers a Bishop or a Priest by the Scripture is neither commanded nor forbidden to Excommunicate but where the Laws of any Country giveth him Authority to Excommunicate there they ought to use the same in such Crimes as the Laws have such Authority in and where the Laws of the Region forbiddeth them there they have no Authority at all And they that be no Priests may also Excommunicate if the Law allow thereunto NOTE That in Queen Mary 's days Catholick Religion being restored by Law Cranmer had by his own Confession no Power of the Keys Nay every Constable might Excommunicate as well as he if the Law gave power These were strange Opinions for an Archbishop and Reformer of the Faith he subscribed thus ' Thom. Cantuariens this is my Opinion and Sentence at this present which I do not temerariously define but do remit the Judgment thereof wholly unto your Majesty that was Henry VIII A. How does Burnet excuse him for these Opinions B. Very oddly as a Man would think viz. it seems that afterwards he changed his Opinion for he subscribed the Book that was soon after set out which is directly contrary to these Opinions that is to say in the year 1540. he subscribed to a Book for seven Sacraments for Transubstantiation for the profitable use of Images to put us in mind of the great Blessings we have received by our Saviour for desiring the Prayers of Saints as Intercessors being the Doctrine of the Catholick Church For the use of the Hymn called Ave Maria in Commemoration of Christs Incarnation and to set forth the Praises of the blessed Virgin. Of all which particulars he believed not a syllable though he subscribed with the rest of the Bishops Nay Burnet tells you plainly page 289. that he was then for reducing the seven Sacraments to two but the Popish Party was prevalent at that time So the old number of seven was agreed to anno 1540. that is the major vote of Bishops carried it against him and he durst not but subscribe for fear of King Henry In the year 1536 which was but four years before he gave his subscription to a Book for three Sacraments onely wherein was declared the necessity of Auricular Confession and that it was good to pray unto the Saints to pray for and with us Of which he believed not a tittle See Burnet page 217. so that by what he subscribed it can never be gathered that he quitted those strange Opinions A. But after all this did he not renounce the Protestant Religion in Queen Mary's days B. Yes the Popish Party have but too great advantages against him says Burnet in the last part of his Life The Fears of Death wrought that effect on him that he did recant which he signed thrice Appendix to 2. vol. pag. 400. So for all his Recantation he was led out to be burnt and then he returned back to his former Doctrines mark this and expressed his Repentance for his Apostacy with all the seriousness that was possible