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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85043	The churches and ministery of England, true churches and true ministery. Cleared, and proved, in a sermon / preach'd the 4th of May at Wiviliscombe; before a numerous congregation assembled together to hear the opposition, which had been long threatned to be made that day, by Mr Collier and others of his party, who, with the greatest strength the West would afford them, were present at the sermon. Wherein were these five things undeniably proved: 1. That a mixture of prophane and scandalous persons with reall saints, is not inconsistent with the Church of God or a true church. ... 5. And then, they also must needs be guilty, who forsake true churches and a lawfull ministry, to follow and hear unsent preachers. By Francis Fullwood minister of the Gospel at Staple Fitzpane in the county of Somerset. Before it there is an epistle and preface, shewing the manner, and a narrative subjoyned shewing the substance of the dispute after the sermon, (both which lasted nine hours.) Set forth by the ministers that were at the dispute, and attested under their hands.	Fullwood, Francis, d. 1693.; Darby, Charls.; Collier, Thomas, fl. 1691.	1652 (1652)	Wing F2498; Thomason E671_2; ESTC R202166	72,915	100

Church But as to their outward Call receiv'd in Rome there may be Rome not Antichrist before the Councel of Trent though Antichristian not wholly so more said than you can Answer and that is this That Rome was not so far Antichristian then but that she had some of the Ordinances of the true though not pure and that though she had plaid the Harlot before yet she had not an expresse and absolute divorce till the Councel of Trent When she by a publick deliberate Councel dis-own'd and razed the fundamentals of Religion which she had not done before that that makes me of this mind is Rome we say was not built in a day Reas 1 The Mysterie of iniquity that disease of Rome had its rise and increase Because Rome was not at her height of sin till that Councel before its state and so far its certain that she was not at her height before this deadly and desperate fit of the Councel of Trent as appears 1. Because those grosse fundamentall errours that are now so firmly laid in the Church of Rome by the Councell of Trent and which carrieth so great a stroak in the seating of Which appears because there was never so many and dangerous Heresies decreed before the Councel of Trent Antichrist there were not only complained of declaimed against by private single Ministers both in their Preaching and Printing but disowned by Decrees made against the most dangerous of them by publick Counsels and we do hardly read of any former Counsel that did not onely not establish all the Errors or the grossest of the Errors of the Counsel of Trent but that on the contrary did expressely declare against some one or more of the very worst of them There are six chief or Cardinal Errors of the Church of Rome The Popes supremacie the dividing of the Bread and Wine in the Sacrament allowing the people no Wine the Worshipping of Images the denyall of the Bible to the common people Justification by works and beleeving of Traditions Now these six were never established together by any Councel but the Councel of Trent Ye● 1. The Popes Supremacie was decree'd against by the Councels of Calcedon Affrick Milevi Constantinople and Basil 2. Communicating in both kinds was decreed by the Councel of Basil 3. The Divine Worshipping of Images was forbidden in the second Nicen Councel 4. The Councel of Nice decreed that no Christian should be without a Bible 5. And Thomas an acknowledged writer of the Roman faith in his time denieth Justification by works Ceremoniall or Morall 6. And we were never bound or commanded to beleeve tradition untill the Councel of Trent decreed it Now while Rome declared against or had not by councel decreed any one of these errours sure she was not at such a pitch of heresie or so deeply died with Antichristianism as now she is made by the councell of Trent where they are all and many more ratified as firm as hell can make them yea very much of Antichristianism was brought to Rome with the last of these errours touching tradition which she had not before the councell of Trent for the Church is built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets the Scriptures and what doth weaken the Scripture more and consequently the foundation of the Church more then making tradition contrary to it a compartner with it in the Churches faith especially if we adde the abuse of originals the Greek and Hebrew Text preferring the latin corruption above them which was with such strictnesse and weight imposed by the Councel of Trent and never before The conclusion of the first Argument with the deniall of the vulgar to reade it Now Physicians do not count a disease in its state untill it have reigned to its full height and therefore how to condemn the Church of Rome as wholly Antichristian before Trent councel I cannot see the disease was daily encreasing upon her she seemed not however to be at the height or mortally sick before for from what hath been said the councell of Trent did desperately wound the Church of Rome in three respects 1. In that it did heighten and multiply her damnable errours 2. In that it did draw all the poyson into one entire monster and body of errour and presented it all to the world as the doctrine of the Church 3. In that these were more solemnly seriously deliberately publikely by the pretended representative of the whole Church as the work of years delivered ratified as the perpetuall doctrine of the Church which made the errors rather the errors of Rome Note though many particular persons were against then if all the members of the Church of Rome had held the same apart that is without a councell My second Argument to prove that Rome was not at the Because there were strange mottions towards Reformation in Rome before and somewhat effectuall state or height of this her disease till the Councell of Trent is taken from her strange motions all along after Reformation every age almost complained of abuses in doctrine and discipline and were so urgent and impetuous that they prevail'd to have a councell cal'd for to advise about a Reformation and every councell before this last for ought I can finde did some good and this very wicked councell the councell of Trent it self was occasioned by universall and potent complaints of corruption and errour and such was the power of the better people that the malignant party were forc'd to yeeld to call a counsell on which there lay great hopes being called indeed upon fairest pretences this I would inferre from hence that God had not wholly cast Rome off who doth not leave The conclusion while and where there is any the least appearance of hope of which it seems there was not a little in the Church of Rome till the Councel of Trent A second Argument to prove that there might be something A second Argument that Rome was a true Church till the Councel of Trent at least of Christ in Rome that she was not wholly Antichristian and no true Church till the Councel of Trent is taken from the concessions of most of our Adversaries in this thing the Brownists most of them acknowledge that the Church of Rome had true Baptism and some of them as Johnson c. held they had true Ordination too and such as broke off from Rome had not any need of the Repetition of either Now let us consider could there be true and valid Ordinances in a Church that was true in no respect could there do we think be Ordinances of Christ in a Church that was wholly Antichrist Suppose the Church of Turks should baptize In the Name of the Father Son and holy Ghost were that true Baptism if not then a difference must be made betwixt the Baptism of Rome and that and if so where lies the difference but in the Church and what is the difference but

THE CHURCHES and MINISTERY of ENGLAND True Churches and true Ministery Cleared and proved In a SERMON preach'd the 4th of May at Wiviliscombe before a numerous Congregation assembled together to hear the opposition which had been long threatned to be made that day by Mr Collier and others of his party who with the greatest strength the West would afford them were present at the Sermon Wherein were these Five things undeniably proved 1. That a mixture of prophane and scandalous persons with reall Saints is not inconsistent with the Church of God or a true Church 2. That then the Churches that are now in England are Churches of God and true Churches 3. That then the Ministry of those Churches is the Ministry of God and the true Ministry 4. That then there is a great and heavy sin lying at the door of all such as do presume to preach publikely among us without a Call who have true Churches and a setled Ministry 5. And then they also must needs be guilty who forsake true Churches and a lawfull Ministry to follow and hear unsent preachers By FRANCIS FULLWOOD Minister of the Gospel at Staple Fitzpane in the County of Somerset Before it there is an Epistle and Preface shewing the Manner and a Narrative subjoyned shewing the Substance of the Dispute after the Sermon both which lasted nine hours Set forth by the Ministers that were at the Dispute and Attested under their Hands LONDON Printed by A. M. for George Treagle at Taunton and are to be sold at London by William Roybould at the Unicorn in Pauls Church-yard 1652. TO HIS Honoured Friend Collonel JOHN PINE A Member of Parliament and one of the Commissioners for the Militia of the County of Somerset Honoured Sir TRuth though above this sixteen hundred years of age and hath learned long since to stand alone yet experience hath found it doth ever goe the better into the world when imboldened with the care and gracious protection of a nursing Father and I need not dawb with untempered mortar to tell the world what the whole West of England well nigh knows that the potent influence and pleasant shade of so noble a Tree will better protect and secure those truths against all the heat of present opposition then these poor contemptible following Leaves can do Now Blessed be the God of Truth that hath inclined your heart to own his truth and more particularly to embrace an opportunity wherein you may do his shaken Churches throughout the world so great service a bold expression I must needs confesse yet Worthily Honoured Sir give me leave to be bold and I shall adde That there is nothing more certain then this that these mens principles we speak against would at once strike down I say not the credit but being and truth of all the Churches and Ministery and Ordinances of Christ that are either now or ever have been in the world since the Primitive times and who is not affrighted from horrid principles But since the designe lies so deep I beseech you Noble Sir to consider a little who they are that undertake it and with what Engine they think to effect it First Who and what are the men of so great an adventure Methinks Fame should carry them to be mightily skil'd in the Originall tongus or deeply read in the History of the Church whereby they had discovered something there that was never found out before or some Saints or Angels or Christs sent down from heaven to open some truths that had been lockt up and kept secret from the Church for so many hundred years but alas they pretend not to be any such but what are they even men of like infirmities with us and in a word no betterthen the Apostle describes unlearned unstable wresting the Scriptures But surely they have some weighty Arguments though the men be weak they would never undertake so great a design as to overthrow all Churches Ministers Ordinances and that ever since the Apostles times unlesse their Engine were somewhat answerable O yes they have allowed Infant-baptism Ministers that baptize infants are Anti-christian Members that were baptized Infants are Anti-christian and consequently Churches and Ordinances are all Antichristian Ah poor shift and yet you have nothing else will hold an Argument but this Let me now in the Name of God and all the Churches entreat these men to consider a few things or answer a few brief questions touching Infant-baptism and then they will see how desperate and unadvised they have been in a matter of so great moment 1. Suppose we should grant the baptizing of Infants an Errour May not the true Church erre may not the whole Church erre may it not erre in judgement and then what doth hinder but it may erre in practice too and yet be still a true Church to affirm the contrary is rank Popery Again If the Church may erre it may erre in circumstance without dispute and what is the errour of Infant-baptism if it be an errour more then a circumstantiall errour for have we not ever kept the substance of it the matter water and the form In the Name of the Father Son and holy Ghost how then I pray you can the errour of Infant-baptism destroy our Churches or nullifie our Ministers or ●●her Ordinances 2. But alas who told you that Infant-baptism was an errour before the Anabaptists of Germany did who told you when this errour came first into the Church What Precept or Precedent have you against it in all the Scripture or what command have you to shew for the baptizing beleevers only alas poor men who among you dare answer to any one of these questions and how then wilt thou be able to answer them all and much lesse can you warrant the desperate conclusions you have built upon so weak so tottering a foundation But why do I trouble these poor men alas they are but the weapons and Organs of Jesuites who play their game under these mens cloaks Methinks I see them instilling their damnable doctrines into these mens ears and venting them again at their mouths how naturally do all the abominable errours of these our times if you follow them a little kindely saluting each other and joyning in one stream tend and flow to the Sea of Rome the Seminaries are sowing their Tares among us which indeed spring too fast all the Land over and if they be not rooted up and stopt in time the Pope it 's to be feared will shortly reap too large a harvest among us in England which Canterbury I remember warned us off who know more of their plots and methods perhaps then he should or we do in his speech upon the Scaffold Honoured Sir give me leave I beseech you to point a little at the Jesuites drift as I conceive among us His generall last end is to advance the Pope and bring in Popery which hath been hatching many years The means he makes use of for this great end is to

also the door of the Church for persons though really converted by the preaching of the Gospel and the Children of Beleevers born in the Church are not though virtuall actuall members of the visible Church before Baptism which seems to be built upon the known Text Go disciple all Nations baptizing them that is disciple not by teaching only not by teaching properly but by baptism the participle using to signifie the manner of doing Go disciple but how must we disciple why as before by circumeising so now by baptizing and in this Commission in Matthew to the Apostles the Commission given to our Father Abraham is but enlarged 't is the same * The Sacraments of the Jewish Church in substance were one and the same with our Sacraments Heb. 13. 8. 1 Cor. 10. 1 2 3. Joh. 8. 56. Joh. 6. 50 51. Col. 1. 11 12. 1 Cor. 5. 7. all say this except Papists Anabaptists Arminians and Socinians for substance though it differ in circumstance the work is the same to disciple and make up Churches though the matter is larger Abraham chiefly that one Nation to come out of his loines together with all that would joyn as proselytes and the Gospel Ministers must disciple all nations i. so far as they can and the nation will submit unto them Abraham was commanded to disciple by that initiating ordinance of Circumcision and the Gospel Ministers by this of Baptism indeed there is teaching prerequisite to prepare and fit men out of the Church for the ordinance of Baptism and so much was requisite to make men proselytes for Circumcision which thing makes it cleer that not only Abrahams naturall seed had right to this Ordinance or that his seed were circumcised as his seed but as they were capable of being members of the visible Church and therefore we finde that when heathen people were willing to become members of the Church they had the Ordinance of initiation Circumcision to enter them in and not them only but their children also which is a cleer pattern for the Ministers of the Gospel towards the Gentiles How shall we behave our selves to them why we have commission to disciple them But how why as the Ministers of Law did proselytes Gentiles before us by Circumcision so must we now by Baptism but whom among them why as they before us the prosely to Gentiles and their children too so must we also disciple by baptism the nations of the Gentiles and their children too so far as they submit themselves and their children to the Ordinance of Christ But I must return Baptism wee see is the door of the Church which further appears by Joh. 3. 5. Except a man be born again of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God this Kingdom of God I conceive to be the Church for Christ is telling Nicodemus here of earthly things and you may conceive the Church invisible or visible if invisible here is a door to let you in the baptism of the spirit and regeneration reall if visible here is another door for that too the baptism of water a regeneration visible a man may be born again i become a new man two waies and accordingly may have place in the Church two waies he may be born again indeed by a reall work of the spirit within and thus becomes a member of the invisible Church or else a man may be born again in shew only from a visible member of the world and the divel discipled by baptism and made thereby a visible member of Christ and entered into the visible Kingdom of Heaven the visible Church which indeed is sometimes first according to the order of the words except a man be born again of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the visible or invisible Church the Kingdom of Heaven Now to end with this it cannot be denied upon a good ground but we in England are a discipled nation and are entered into the Kingdom of Heaven the visible Church being born again by water Neither have we the seal only for we have the writings 2. And word of it Church is built upon the foundation of Apostles and Prophets too not only a pledg or token of the bargain but the word of the Covenant also the Scriptures in purity and the Ordinances of them in power and fullness which is undeniable and therefore we have the Covenant Deut. 4. 13. Heb. 9. 4. also above all reasonable contradiction and therefore we are the Churches of God for full satisfaction To * Rom. 9. 4. the Jews belonged the Adoption glory and Covenants but how does it appear because to them belonged the giving of the Law and the service of God And what advantage had the Jew by being a Church above the Gentile that was none why much every way but chiefly because to them were committed * Rom. 3. 1 2. The walls of the Church have their foundation in the Names i doctrine of the twelve Apostles and is therefore the pillar and ground of truth Rev. 21. 14. the Oracles of God shewing that they were a peculiar priviledge to and a distinguishing character of the visible Church for God sheweth his word unto Jacob his Statutes and judgements unto Israel and hath not dealt so with any nation that is among the heathen that have no Church Psal 147. 19 20. compared with Cant. 1. 7 other nations doubtless might have the Bible among them as we at this day have the Turkish Alcoron but here lay the difference God did not shew promulge or preach his word to them it was not with them as the Oracles of God the word of the Covenant to them Gospel Ordinances are a great part of the outward administration Ubi est fides illic est Ecclesia ubi non est fides ibi non est ecclesia Chryso of Gospel Covenant where God is pleased to hold a visible communion with us and we with him as before and so long as we have these we are no doubt in covenant with God and then a Church of God And to make all sure we have the peculiar blessings of the 3. And the blessings of it covenant which God bestows on none but such as are in covenant with him his own Churches These are chiefly three the blessing of his spirit of his providence and of his people the first is inward the two later outward but all spirituall and all speciall and peculiar blessings but of them in order The first and inward blessing of the Covenant is the blessing 1. Conversion I mean not only the common convictions enlightenings with the knowledge of the Gospel which is indeed peculiar to the Church however but the speciall blessings of the Spirit of God accompanying his word for the work of conversion in the hearts of our hearers This I make an infallible Mark of the truth of our Churches Conversion ordinarily wrought in our Churches Conversion may be

examination ordination and inauguration to the Magistrate nomination presentation confirmation to the people consent suffrage approving or as circumstances may require postulation Not willing to give all to the Minister with Papists to the Magistrate with Erastians or to the people with Libertines Anabaptists Brownists c. and to the purpose Amesius speaks who goes as far in this as we desire for the care that all things saith he touching ordination of Ministers he means be done rightly belongs to the Magistrate whose care and power doth contribute to us and disown you 'T is but vain to say that this is to fetch our power from the earth for we rather look on the favour of Magistrates and their assistance as a plain performance of that Gospel-promise Isa 49. 23. And Kings shall be thy nursing Fathers and their Queens thy nursing Mothers which I know not how can come better to passe then by their providing the sincere milk of the Word for us Now thus far we are come having stept beyond you four degrees into the approbation of indifferent men we are found to have for our wartant in preaching what you have or allow and over and above what may well be required by any other men yet one thing remains of greater concernment then all the rest for further yet we excell you in this that we have besides what the Word requires either to make or manifest us true Ministers the sum of the following Section SECT III. And we are not allowed true Ministers only by our adversaries We have what the Word requires principles by our own Congregations by all the Reformed Churches in the world and by a Christian Magistracy as hath largely been shewed but by the Word of God besides we having whatever the Word requires to make us Ministers or to evidence us such 1. To make us Ministers We have first whatsoever the Word requires to make us Ministers viz. Ordination according to the Word of God now The nature of Ordination that this may appear I shall briefly unfold the nature of Gospel-ordination of Ministers and for that end I pitch on and desire you to turn to that of Act. 13. 1 2 3. where we shall learn two things 1. What the nature of Ordination is 2. In whose hands the power of ordaining lies 2. Ordination is described here with respect to its substance and so it is a separating v. 2. or a sending v. 3. as also with respect to its Ceremonies v. 3. which are fasting and prayer and laying on of hands Now from both these we have this Rule That ordinary Gospel-ordaining of Ministers is a sacred separating and setting them apart for the work of the Ministery which ought to be solemniz'd and distinctly signified by fasting and prayer and laying on of hands Concerning which I lay down these rules 1. This Ordination is more or lesse necessary the more or lesse Rules touching the necessity of Ordination the means thereof may be had 2. Therefore it is not simply necessary or with a necessity of means as if in no case a man might be made a Minister without it 3. Yet it is necessary secundum quid by Apostolicall instruction 4. Whole Ordination is of necessity required in a constituted Church on the Ordainers part not on the part of the person ordained I mean though God requires they observe his rule in ordaining yet the omission of some circumstances doth not null the substance of any ordination had without them upon this Rule * M. Seaman In talibus non est aliquid iterandum saith a Canon of the Papists themselves Note Because Calvinists and Lutherans place so much in a Christian Magistrate the edification of the Church is so necessary that it must be endeavoured as providence makes way and I had rather have the substance only viz. a setting apart by lawfull Ministers authoriz'd thereto by the Civill Magistrate without the other convenient ceremonies then to have full Ordination both substance and ceremonies from men not allowed by publike Authority 5. We must then distinguish betwixt the substance and ceremonies of Ordination and then we say that the substance which I take to be neer the same with vocation is far more necessary then the circumstance of fasting and prayer and imposition of hands 6. The substance of Ordination is absolutely necessary to make a Minister a lawfull Pastor to any particular flock though not so to licence a mans teaching to heathens out of a Church for suppose the highest case a company of Christians are cast upon the shore among heathens and there is no returning for them to the true Church again one of these may be made Pastor and overseer to the Church none doubt but how it must be by the calling of the rest whereby they separate him for the work which is the substance of Ordination and without the same no man among them may take that honour unto himself All these ceremonies of Ordination are to be gladly received The necessity of imposition of hands in some respects either for orders sake or to avoid scandal is acknowledged by these Protestant Divines who make least account of laying on of hands M. Seaman p. 74. Note Our Ordination is such as the word holds out when they may be had and readily submitted to not as the practice but the plain institution of the blessed Apostles and that that therefore will render a mans call into the Ministery most clear from scandall or any touch of offence These Rules I doubt not to lay before you as the conclusions of Protestant Divines and very much favoured by holy Scripture which would easily appear should I not exceed the bounds of a Sermon Now as these do keep the middle way 'twixt Papists upholding the absolute necessity of Ordination in all cases and Socinians and Anabaptists that deny it to be any way necessary at all so do they allow and maintain the lawfullnesse of out Ordination and calling to the Word of the Ministery both now and heretofore in the Church of England being no other but what is most clearly and evidently gathered from the Text before us this Act. 13. 2 3. with many other places Object But how shall we know that the way of ordaining in the text is the ordinary way for the Churches of Christ to walk in since the persons ordained seem to us to be extraordinary men Barnabas and Paul Answ That very thing proves it for if both these men had a call extraordinary before this their call then must needs be ordinary The Ordination of Barnabas and Paul was ordinary which is more plain too if we consider the work is the work of ordinary Ministers hereunto they are called viz. to preach ver 5. and to ordain others cap. 14. 23. they having an extraordinary call before that need not be repeated but they being to be sent about the work of ordinary Officers they have therefore moreover an ordinary call

and Ordination confer'd as a Rule for the practice of suceeding Churches to the end of the world 2. If we doubt of the meaning of the Text let us weigh and consider its interpretation in the practice of the Primitive Churches afterwards as also of all the Churches of Christ since those daies for the practice of both doth undoubtedly conclude that this was ordinary Ordination but the doubt lies not touching the practice of future Churches for that 's without doubt that all the Records of former Churches since the Apostles mention Nos enim sai h Tarno of the business in hand necessarium existionamus secundum quid nimirum quia citra scandalum omitti hodiè non potest qui tot annos in ecclesiâ ufitatus fuit no other Ordination but this and though this hath much weight in it doubtlesse and nothing lesse then presumption will offer to question the uninterrupted practice of the Churches throughout all ages since the primitive times yet let us consider Was it not so also from the beginning do we reade of any other Ordination in the Primitive Churches but this Did not Paul and Barnabas ordain others in the same manner Act. 14. 23. Did not Paul charge Timothy with the same order the negative command containing an affirmative when he said Lay hands suddenly on no man 1 Tim. 5 22 and did not the Apostles take the same course in Act. 6 Indeed the Scripture speaks more carelesly of the Ceremonies Note of it in some places taking no notice of one nor in some of another c. though we cannot thence argue they were omitted and all that we can gather from such a non-mentioning of them is this that the Ceremonies seem to be of weaker necessity then the substance of our call which is still most carefully noted and expressed by the holy Ghost in every place that mentions any thing of Ordination by the substance I mean here as before a solemn separating and setting apart by the Church for the work of the Ministery but however unlesse you can shew us some place of Scripture where this way of Ordination by fasting and prayer and laying on of hands is forbidden or where another way or course is appointed and used we may not safely lay aside the old much lesse presume to invent a new alas what harm or danger is there in fasting and praier the most happy Christian means to solemnize and speed an important businesse or in laying on of hands whose three uses in Scripture Gen. 48 14 20 concurre and meet in ordaining Ministers viz. blessing * Num. 8. 12. consecrating and setting apart unto an office So much for the nature of Ordination it self now follows the Persons ordaining consideration of the persons in whose hands the power of ordaining lies Who are either principall according to the Text or ministeriall 1. Principall the holy Ghost The principall person ordaining here is the holy Ghost touching whose act in this businesse the Text affords two expressions the one before the other after the mediate Ordination of the Church the first we have in ver 2. the holy Ghost said separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them Whence we note That an inward or secret call by the holy Ghost is not enough according Observ 1. to the order and rule of the Gospel but requires for the regular making a Minister the formall Ordination of the Church besides Or Whom the holy Ghost doth call to be Ministers he doth hint to the Church to be ordained The second expression that discovers the finger of the holy Ghost here we have immediately after the Churches Ordination ver 3. in ver 4. so they being sent forth by the holy Ghost Whence Those that be ordained according to the Rule by the Church of Christ may be said to be sent by the holy Ghost And when they hed fasted and prayed and laid their hands on them they sent them away and the very next words are v. 4. so they being sent by the holy Ghost 2. The Ministeriall persons sending or ordaining here you 2. Ministeriall ordinary teaching Elders have described in ver 3. Such as ministred to the Lord by office Ministers and nam'd vers 1. 1. From their Offices Certain Prophets and Teachers 2. By their proper names Barnabas Simeon Lucius Manaen and Saul These were ministring these were spoke to by the holy Ghost the rest fasted and prayed and laid on their hands on Barnabas and Saul and sent them away So then the persons ordaining here were Prophets and Teachers which names do signifie their offices and are in this place sy●●nimous as Marlorat judgeth mark then they are not called Apostles to confute the Papist nor yet can they be the body of the people without any Officers to silence the Anabaptists Brownists c. the power of ordaining lies then in the hands of Prophets and Teachers of ordinary teachers as well as of extraordinary Prophets else it would have been said that the Prophets onely laid hands on them yea of Prophets not as such but as they were Teachers the greater ever containing the lesse for as we never finde that it was proper to Prophets as so to ordain so nor as extraordinary Officers onely for then Ordination had ceased with extraordinary Officers which would gratifie the Seeker too much Therefore it is said both Prophets and Teachers to intimate to us that Teachers and ordinary Officers have a stewardly power of Ordination and Prophets as supplying the place and doing the office of ordinary Teachers that are to succeed to the end of the world Eph. 4. Whence the note and Observation is That the power of sending or ordaining Ministers lies in the Observ hands of ordinary Officers as stewards of it not in the hands of Five Arguments to prove the power of Ordaining in the hands of ordinary Officers Apostles only not in the hands of the people ordinarily for which I shall but name five Arguments two of which I hinted in the clearing of the Text. 1. If the power of ordaining had lain in the hands of extrordinary Officers only there had been no way left for the perpetuation of a Gospel-Ministery which Christ hath resolv'd to continue in the world to the end thereof 2. If Teachers had power to ordain then ordinary Officers had power to ordain for Teaches were ordinary Officers Eph. 4. But Teachers we see in the Text had power to ordain Ergò 3. If men by vertue and with and in their own Ordination receive power to ordain then ordinary Ministers have power to ordain for they are ordain'd But men by vertue and in and with their own Ordination receive power and authority to ordain others as appears abundantly As my Father sent me so send I you saith Christ this seems to be spoken in answer to secret Objections which the Apostles made against their call to preach the Gospel as

beleeve so we tell our Children that they are obliged by Baptism to serve God own Christ forsake the World resist the Devil mortifie their flesh the more which if they neglect their condition is worse than the very Heathens Thus we have made good the first command of Matthew 28. 19. We shall now proceed to the other which you have in Acts 2. 38 39. Repent and be baptized every one of you c. For the promise is to you and to your Children c. Whence I argue The command of the Sign is as large as the Promise of the thing signified but the promise is to you and your children therefore the command of Baptism reacheth to you and your children too upon your repentance as to Abraham when he himself believed God commands him to be circumcised himself and his Children So here when you repent both you and your Children are taken into Covenant and you are commanded to receive Baptism for your selves and Children Repent ye parents and be baptized every one of you both Parents and Children who have call'd for Judgement upon your selves and Children for the Promise notwithstanding is to you and to your Children Col. But this promise here is a promise of the Spirit Ful. And of the forgivenesse of sins too ver 38. Coll. But that promise however is a spiritual promise Ful. Yet the promise which is said to be to you and your Children there is more then Spirituall indeed it is onely spiritually applyed at this time and why Because those to whom it is applyed are at this time onely spiritually wounded pricked to the hears yet the promise here is indeed the Covenant which hath both temporall and spirituall promises which is very evident if we turn to the second of Joel out of which the Text is taken which Chapter is almost made up of temporal and spiritual promises as if it were an Exposition of the Covenant Which Chapter was openly read and found to be so So this command was ended too for they being urged to say what they could for themselves they refused to say any more but would leave what had been said to the judgement of the people we being somewhat imboldened by their parties silence referr'd it to the people as they desired and asked them whether they were not satisfied with what had been said for in-Infant Baptism In Answer to which severall persons cryed out They were and not one of their partie said any thing to the contrarie but one who call'd to the people and asked them Why they would say they were satisfied when they were not Hereupon as we remember Master Hadridg stood up and asked these two Sophisticall questions Had. I have three Children which were never sprinkled and I would fain know what Command I have omitted I my self have been dipt and I would fain know what Command I have broken Ful. As for your own being Dipt or Rebaptiz'd you have broke the Command that is easily inferr'd from the words of Suppose I should say I have two children that have been both of them sprinkled what command have I broken And for my own part I was never Dipt or Baptizd again what command have omitted What Answer can you make the Apostle there is but one Baptism for you have had two And for the neglecting the baptizing of your Children you have plainly omitted the commands that have been prest for Infant Baptism which stand as yet unshaken notwithstanding what hath been moved against them Now we have given you these Commands we shall shew you example also which hath a probable Argument in it that Children were baptized by the Apostles It was That we have many examples of whole houses that were Baptized and surely those times were very barren if there should happen to be so many housholds without one child and if it be probable that there was but one Child in all these Houses as it is a very probable Argument for Infant Baptism since the whole households where ever they came were Baptized with the chief of their houses none ever excepted against or rejected There was some jangling about some particular houses but nothing of moment said to the Argument Then some indigested Objections were made against Sprinkling The sum of the Answer to them was 1. We do not exclude either Dipping or Sprinkling though we conceive that Baptism is rather a washing then either Dipping or Sprinkling 2. 'T is out of Charitie as well as judgement that we doe not Dip Infants and we have Scripture-warrant for it I will have mercy and not sacrifice 3. The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth Sprinkling or Washing as well as Dipping they Baptized Beds and Cups and Tables c. And when Beds and Tables were Ceremoniously wash'd or Baptiz'd no man will say they Dipt them under Water The Adversaries unwilling to say any more against Infant-Baptism were urg'd to return to their first Discourse touching the Churches and say what they could against our Ministerie the thing mainly intended to which they agree● but Master Fullwood being over-wearie desired respit it was urged that Master How who had sufficiently provided for it whose exercise was gladly and thankfully read and transcribed by several Godly Ministers about us might state the Question touching the Ministerie which was Whether the present Ministerie of the Churches now in England be the true Ministerie of Jesus Christ exclusively Which they refused pretending that would be too long but gave way that Master How might bring an Argument or two for the Ministerie of England for which he engaged and performed as followeth How Those that are Instruments in the hands of Christ for the work of Conversion are the Ministers of Christ 1 Corinth 9. 2. But the Ministers of England are Instruments in the hands of Christ for the work of Conversion Rom. 10. 11. Ergo. Again Those that come in at the door of the Sheepfold are the true Shepheards But the present Ministers of England came in at the door of the Sheepfold therefore they are true Shepheards Coll. I deny the Minor How Those that come in after the mind of Christ come in at the door of the sheepfold But we come in after the mind of Christ therefore c. Col. I deny the Minor How Those that come in an Apostolicall way come in after the minde of Christ but so we come in Col. I deny the Minor How Those whose substantialls in point of Call were such as the Apostles acted by in point of Ordination came in the Apostolick way But it was so with us Col. I deny the Minor How Four things onely are required in Scripture so far as I can ●●nd to make a compleat Apostolicall Ordination First Examination for Abilities 2 Timoth. 2. 3. Secondly The Savour of good report from the Church Acts 16. 2. Thirdly a time of seeking to God Acts 14. 23. Fourthly Imposition of hands 1 Tim. 4. 14. Col. You fail in the End How Personall failings