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A11271 A goodly dysputacion betwene a christen shomaker, and a popysshe parson with two other parsones more, done within the famous citie of Norembourgh. Translated out of [the] Germayne tongue into Englysshe. By Anthony Scoloker. Sachs, Hans, 1494-1576.; Scoloker, Anthony, fl. 1548. 1548 (1548) STC 21537.7; ESTC S117736 15,831 48

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your customes Parson Syr I pray the tell me the Lutherians do neuer shryue nor confesse them whych is the greatest heresie of all Shomaker Nether is that commanded of God nor yet pronounced nether in the olde nor ●n the newe Testament Parson Dyd not Chryst saye Go and shewe thy Math 22. selfe vnto the priestes shomaker Doest thou call shewing shryuing that is a wōders straunge Englysshe ye must declare it better vnto me by scripture If the same shryuing in the eare were such a great bonde ād holy thyng it shuld truely be clerer declared in the scripture Parson What I say / wyll ye do nothyng els but that whyche is commaunded yow of GOD in the scripture that is a pitious case shomaker I can not fulfyll the same as it is declared Actes 15. / what nede I to lay any more burthen vpon me parson Such thynges haue the holy fathers ordeyned in their councels shomaker Who gaue them Auctoritie parson Chryst sayth I haue yet many thyngs to say vnto you but ye can not beare it awey Iohan. 16. now Howe sayst thou Are not than the councels instituted of God parson But Chryst speaketh before that I shall send the comforter which is the spyrite of trueth which procedeth of the father and Iohan. 15. he shall declare you all thynges whiche I haue tolde you Marke he sayth not he shall teache you new thinges whych I haue not tolde you but the same thynges which I haue tolde you euen the same shall he declare vnto you And sayth further hereafter / he shal leade you in all treuth Parson Thus holdest thou nothynge of the councels I perceaue well Inough shomaker yes verelye of that counsell whych the Apostles kepte at Ierusalem Parson Haue the apostles also kept a counsell shomaker yea if you haue a byble parson yea I haue one O Katherin / brynge he ther that same great old boke Katherin the parsōs handmayd Katherin Syr is that same it parson What no / that same is the decrees loke ye make it not soule what elses Katheryn Syr is thys it Parson Yea make it cleane and swepe of the So much dyd he regarde the byble dust and cobwebbes now master shomaker where is it shomaker Seke in the Actes of the Apostles in Actes 13. the. 15. chapter Parson Seke your self / I am not much vsed Now he telleth truth in the same boke I knowe other thynges which are proffytabler vnto me thē that shomaker There it is / beholde Syr. Parson Katherin rede Actum 15. nay let alone I wyll rede it my self and I wyll know what the same olde fellowes haue made Shomaker Yea Rede and ye shall fynde that mē may not say the burdens of the olde Testament vppon the Christians therfore are we not bounde to heare you in the olde muche lesse in the new testament Parson But Christ sayth Whosoeuer heareth Luke 10. you heareth me ād he that despyseth you despyseth me is that same not cleare Inough shomaker Yea when you do syncerlye and purelye teach Gods worde thē are men boūde to heare you euen as Chryste hym selfe But whē ye preach youre owne Imaginacyons and inuencyons thē ought no man to gyue care vnto you For all that is not planted of God my heauenly father shal be plucked vp by the rotes Parson Are the councelles then also the learnyng of men Shomaker If a man shulde say the trueth the coūcelles haue done great dammage in Chryhendome by two maner of wayes Parson What hurt or dammage declare them I pray the hartelye Syomaker Fyrst the cōmaundementes which are innumerable and vnmeasurable as you your self knowe / and that which is worst of all haue bene by excōmunycacyons cōfyrmed ād aboue that moost part are not grounded in the scrypture and such your cōmaundemēts men haue highly estemed and therwith greatly charged mens cōscyences / and haue bene reputed lyke the commaundmentes of God / yea set before thē wherby the commaundementes of God haue bene set backe and made vnknowen to the people Such people hath Paul declared with their commaundementes That in the latter tymes shulde departe 1. Timo. 4 from the fayth and gyue hede vnto spirites of errour / and deuelyshe doctryne of them which speake false thorow ypocrysy haue their consciences marked with an hote yron forbyddyng to marry and commaundyng to absteyne from meates which God hathe created to be receyued wyth thankes geuyng of them which beleue and know the truth Parson How is that come to passe with what commaundementes I pray the Shomaker To eate flesh on the fryday hath bene taken for a greater synne then to kepe a whore or two parson I vnderstande you very well what dammages are there more Shomaker Secondarely they haue brought forth many straunge Gods seruises / and called them good workes which is nothyng elles if a man shulde saye so the but verye apesplay and outward folysshnes / Wherof God neuer spake one worde / wherby both we and they / haue neglected and not regarded the good woorkes whych God hath commaunded vs. parson what are then the ryght true workes of a chrysten man shomaker Chryst sayth All what thou woldest the Math. 7. men shuld do to the do euen the same vnto them / and that is the fulfilling of the whole lawe and prophetes And he doth teache Math. 15. vs to fede the hungry / to geue drinke to the thyrstye / to harbarrowe the harbarroules to clothe the naked to visite the sycke and to comforte the prisonner parson Are that only the workes of a Christē man and the wholl sōme of a Chrysten lyfe shomaker Yea / a true and faythfull chrysten man Iohan. 3. which is borne a newe out of the water ād the Spyrite as it is written Iohan. iij. chapter serueth God onely in spyrite and Veritie and serueth also his Neighbour wyth the woorkes of charitie / that is the whole summe of a Christen lyfe / but these papistes meane that such a Chrysten lyfe is nothing at all because the same workes haue not such an outwarde shyne as their workes do Parson Thynke ye then that our syngyng and Readyng is of no worth shomaker Chryste shall require nothyng elles of Math. 15. vs at the day of iudgemēt / then the workes Gene. 3. of mercy / then shal ye priestes and mōkes Iob. 5. stande lyke foles which haue left their eares at the pylory Parson Thou hast hy● it wonders well / gette you to the furnace and warme you a lyttell Luke 10. doth Luther teache you suche thynges shomaker No. parson What holdest thou of Luther I pray the tell me Shomaker I hold him for a Chrystē Doctour ād I thynk there hath not beē a better sens the Apostles tyme. Parson What proffyt hath he done in the christen fayth Shomaker Mary fyrst he hathe discouered and brought to lyght youre false doctryne commaundementes tradicions
and Imagynacyons and admonysshed and warned vs therof Secondarely / he hath declared vs by scripture / that we shulde confesse that we are all the bondmen of synne Thyrdely / that Chryst alone is our sauyour and redemer of which two points the Rom. 5. whole scripture is full wherby we learne 1. Cor. 1. to putt oure truste / hope and sayth onelye in Christe which is a true and godly worke to saluacion as Christ sayth Ioan. 6 And Christ sayth Mat. 5. Let your lyght Iohan. 11. braste oute / and so shyne before the people / Math. 5. that they seing your good workes maye praise the father which is in heauen Parson Nedeth no worke therto Shomaker Paule sayth ▪ ad Rom. 5. we hold it therfore Roma 5. that man is onelye made right wes through fayth without the workes to the Romaynes in the last chapter The Rom. vlt. tyghtuous shall lyue by fayth Parson Iames sayth in his 2. chap. Fayth with out Iacob 2 ●ood workes is dead Shomaker A true Christen fayth can neuer be Idell but bryngeth alwayes good workes and frutes forth For Chryst sayth / A good tree an brynge forth no euell frute Math. 7. but such good workes ought not to be done for to meryte or deserue heauen therby / for Chryst hath merited and deserued it for vs neyther for feare and to a voyde the paynes of hell for Chryst hath delyueryd vs therof neyther for honour for all honour sh●lbe geuen onely vnto God as it is writen But ye shall do them for Math. 4. loue for a thankes geuyng to God and to the helpe and profyt of your neyghbour parson If Luther be so ryghtuous and so good a doctour as you name hī to be how cha●tet● it then that so fewe greate lords do cleaue and styck vnto his doctryne Saue onely a heape of rude and vnlearned people Shomaker Pylate Herode Cayphas nor Annas ●leued not to Chryst nor yet the pharizees but the common people Therfore Christ reioyced in spirite ād sayd Father I thanke you that ye haue hydden these Luke 10. thynges from the wyse of the world haue opened it to the lytle flocke Parson What I saye the common people cleane least of all to Luther and hys doctrine Shomaker Your dulheaded and folyshe preachers are cause of that / whych without any scripture crye and call he is an heretyke / he is an heretike But Chryste hath declared Math. 4. to the litell flocke Go thoroughe the narrowe gate for the gate is wyde and the way is broade whyche leadeth to dampnation and ther are many which walke in it And ther are many called and fewe electe Math. 22. Parson Men do vse to speake suche wordes in tauernes vpon the market and elles wher lyke fooles whych ought not to be spokē in suche places Shomaker Christ sayeth / what I saye to you in secret that shall ye preache vppon the house Math. 10 toppes parson If I shulde saye trueth I holde Luther for the greateste heretyke that euer was sence Arrius Tyme and thou arte hys folower and ther is no good in you nether commeth theyr any good frō you / vnderstandeste thou that The same tytell do I gyue both to Luther and to the● Shomaker Veryly you haue hitte the prycke / fo● theyr is no man good but God only Fo● oure nature is whole and all corrupte ●● Math. 14. vs as it is wrytten Genes 8. The hart● of man is inclyned to euell / euen from hy● Gene. 8. youthe / whych dayly muste be mortifyed wyth the crosse leaste it myght hinder th● spirite For nature ceaseth not to seke that thynge wherunto it is inclined all though the spyryte be made ryghtuous through● fayth For it is wrytten Prouer. 24. The ryghtuous falleth seuen tymes ●● the daye Therfore do we daily praye Forgiue Prou. 24. vs our trespaces Math. 6. and paule to the Rom. 7. The good which I wolde Math. 6. I do not / and the euell whiche I hate I Rom. 7. do ād after that speaketh he O miserable man / who shall delyuer me from the body of death Therwyth declareth he that w● are synners euen vnto death But syr Do ruine / yf thou arte wyth out Synne caste the fyrst stone vppon vs. Parson Ye are all vn proffitable people ye can prate very well / I truste ye shal shortly be Iohan. 8. knocked vppon your boanes for I perceaue there is none other remedye shomaker What wolde you be in hande with the swerde that apperteyneth not to the spyritual●●e Parson Hath not Christ Luce. 22. ordeyned two swerdes one spirituall and an other temporall shomaker Chryst did forbydde Peter Math. 26 and sayd he that striketh with the swerd● Math. 26. shall perysh with the swerde parson It helpeth not by other meanes therfore must it be holpen / wyth a quicke punishment for heresy hath in a maner taken the vpperhande therfore it is hygh tyme to stryke in the flocke Shomaker Oh do not so but rather follow the cōsell of Gamaliel / Actum in the 5. chapter If the ddctryne be of God ye can not for Actes 5. bydde nor defend it and if it be of menne then shall it fall without any swerde / to the intent ye he not takē as one that wyll fyght agaynst God parson Ther shall come nothyng elles therof for this shal be the ende Shomaker Nowe O lord of heauen thy wyll be fulfylled Math 6. The Discyple is not aboue hys master H●ve the●● persecuted Iohan. 15. me they shal persecute you also / a●d h●ppy Luke 6. are ys when ye are hated / dysdayned and dispysed for my names sake parson Some shall then holde their peace whych nowe do call and roare a lowde Shomaker He that confesseth me before the world him wyll I knowledge and confesse before my heauenly father Parson Ye shall be handeled and serued lyke as heretikes ought to be serued shomaker Chryst sayth feare not thē whych may Math. 10. destroy the body only but feare him which may destroy both body and soule O lorde God howe good is it to dye for thy names sake parson It were euen your iust rewarde / an heretyke after the third admonicion and warning ought to be put to death shomaker But yow ought fyrste to proue or defyne vs to be heretikes wyth the holy scripture parson That may we full easely ●o Shomaker Then shall God require our bloude at youre hands / because you haue suffered vs and the pore shepe of Chryst to haue bene thus long seduced and ledde out-of the right way And that you haue not resysted and disputed with so many preachers of this learning Parson It shal shortly come to passe we haue taken our aduise and counsell vppon the matter Shomaker Yea is that true indede I perceaue ye do fulfyll the sayeng of Mat. And the Phariz●es went and