thou_o be_v not_o to_o be_v the_o author_n but_o the_o keeper_n not_o the_o institutor_n but_o a_o scholar_n not_o leadinge_n but_o follow_v so_o as_o by_o timothee_n the_o whole_a church_n be_v understand_v as_o the_o same_o author_n say_v or_o especial_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o pastor_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o church_n creat_v not_o any_o new_a article_n of_o faith_n but_o teach_v only_o that_o which_o she_o have_v learn_v of_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n 6._o from_o which_o follow_v that_o other_o thing_n which_o i_o mean_v to_o tell_v the_o knight_n for_o his_o learning_n which_o also_o i_o touch_v before_o in_o a_o word_n to_o wit_n that_o when_o point_n of_o doctrine_n before_o in_o controversy_n and_o undefined_a come_v to_o be_v define_v by_o the_o church_n the_o doctrine_n be_v not_o therefore_o new_a because_o it_o be_v de_fw-fr fide_fw-la or_o matter_n of_o faith_n now_o which_o it_o be_v not_o before_o as_o he_o most_o false_o and_o fond_o suppose_v for_o a_o undoubted_a truth_n and_o upon_o this_o his_o own_o idle_a fancy_n build_v many_o goodly_a argument_n like_v so_o many_o castle_n in_o the_o air_n for_o out_o of_o this_o he_o think_v it_o to_o follow_v that_o we_o vary_v in_o our_o doctrine_n that_o because_o forsooth_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n now_o the_o fide_fw-la which_o be_v not_o before_o and_o whereof_o doctor_n do_v dispute_v which_o see_v we_o may_v not_o now_o doubt_v of_o therefore_o the_o faith_n be_v in_o his_o judgement_n alter_v but_o this_o show_v nothing_o but_o the_o poorness_n of_o his_o judgement_n for_o by_o this_o he_o may_v prove_v that_o the_o sun_n as_o it_o rise_v high_a and_o high_o and_o by_o spread_v his_o beam_n give_v light_n in_o some_o place_n att_o noon_n where_o it_o do_v not_o in_o the_o morning_n that_o therefore_o it_o be_v change_v in_o itself_o than_o which_o what_o can_v be_v more_o absurd_a 7._o and_o that_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o sun_n 6.9_o cant._n 6.9_o appear_v by_o that_o place_n of_o the_o canticle_n quae_fw-la est_fw-la ista_fw-la quae_fw-la progreditur_fw-la quasi_fw-la aurora_fw-la consurgens_fw-la pulchra_fw-la ut_fw-la luna_fw-la electa_fw-la ut_fw-la sol_fw-la terribilis_fw-la ut_fw-la castrorum_fw-la acies_fw-la ordinata_fw-la who_o be_v she_o that_o go_v forward_o as_o the_o morning_n rise_v fair_a as_o the_o moon_n choose_v as_o the_o sun_n terrible_a as_o a_o order_a army_n of_o tent_n which_o word_v no_o man_n ever_o doubt_v to_o be_v literal_o understand_v of_o the_o church_n even_o then_o as_o the_o sun_n may_v go_v spread_v his_o beam_n more_o and_o more_o with_o out_z increase_n or_o change_v of_o it_o own_o light_n in_o itself_o so_o may_v the_o church_n go_v more_o and_o more_o spread_v the_o beam_n of_o her_o divine_a faith_n with_o out_o increase_v or_o alteration_n of_o the_o faith_n in_o itself_o and_o as_o the_o sun_n beam_n may_v shine_v in_o a_o valley_n or_o room_n of_o a_o house_n where_o it_o do_v not_o shine_v before_o so_o may_v the_o church_n spread_v the_o light_n of_o her_o faith_n show_v such_o or_o such_o a_o point_n to_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n which_o before_o be_v not_o so_o know_v to_o be_v or_o which_o though_o it_o be_v a_o divine_a truth_n in_o itself_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o to_o us._n 8._o for_o more_o declaration_n whereof_o i_o may_v yet_o bring_v another_o more_o scholarly_o example_n which_o be_v of_o the_o principle_n of_o several_a science_n which_o be_v to_o be_v the_o premise_n in_o demonstrative_a argument_n of_o those_o science_n in_o which_o principle_n or_o premise_n be_v contain_v diverse_a truth_n which_o may_v be_v draw_v out_o of_o they_o by_o many_o several_a conclusion_n one_o follow_v of_o another_o these_o conclusion_n be_v truth_n in_o themselves_o before_o though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o appear_v unto_o i_o till_o i_o see_v the_o connexion_n they_o have_v with_o the_o premise_n and_o how_o they_o be_v contain_v in_o they_o and_o by_o the_o many_o several_a conclusion_n which_o be_v so_o draw_v the_o truth_n of_o those_o principle_n and_o premise_n do_v more_o show_v itself_o but_o not_o receive_v any_o increase_n or_o change_v in_o itself_o thereby_o even_o so_o we_o say_v in_o the_o prime_a principle_n of_o our_o faith_n reveal_v immediate_o to_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n and_o by_o they_o deliver_v unto_o the_o church_n be_v contain_v all_o truth_n which_o any_o way_n belong_v to_o our_o faith_n and_o whereby_o the_o church_n have_v in_o succeed_a age_n destroy_v several_a heresy_n as_o they_o have_v rise_v without_o create_v or_o coin_v new_a faith_n or_o alter_v the_o old_a but_o out_o of_o the_o old_a ground_n and_o premise_n draw_v those_o conclusion_n which_o destroy_v new_a heresy_n and_o show_v they_o to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o ancient_a faith_n and_o in_o that_o manner_n the_o church_n have_v grow_v and_o increase_v in_o knowledge_n by_o degree_n and_o shall_v still_o go_v grow_v and_o increase_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n 6._o greg._n moral_a lib._n 9_o cap_n 6._o as_o show_v s._n greg._n his_o discourse_n upon_o those_o word_n of_o job._n qui_fw-la facit_fw-la arcturum_fw-la &_o oriana_n &_o hyadas_n etc._n etc._n where_o he_o say_v thus_o vrgente_n mundi_fw-la sine_fw-la superna_fw-la scientia_fw-la proficit_fw-la &_o largius_fw-la cum_fw-la tempore_fw-la excrescit_fw-la as_o the_o world_n draw_v to_o a_o end_n the_o heavenly_a knowledge_n profit_v and_o with_o time_n increase_v wherein_o also_o she_o resemble_v our_o b._n saviour_n her_o chief_a lord_n and_o heavenly_a spouse_n who_o though_o in_o grace_n and_o knowlegde_v he_o never_o receive_v the_o least_o increase_n from_o the_o first_o instant_n of_o his_o conception_n 2.52_o luc_n 2.52_o yet_o the_o scripture_n say_v after_o proficiebat_fw-la sapientia_fw-la &_o aetate_fw-la &_o gratia_fw-la apud_fw-la deum_fw-la &_o homines_fw-la to_o wit_n because_o he_o show_v it_o more_o in_o his_o word_n and_o action_n 9_o this_o be_v far_a confirm_v by_o the_o manner_n and_o practice_n which_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n and_o father_n ever_o observe_v in_o and_o out_o of_o counsel_n in_o prove_v or_o define_v point_n of_o faith_n to_o wit_n by_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n belief_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o church_n in_o the_o search_n whereof_o the_o holy_a church_n join_v humane_a industry_n with_o god_n holy_a grace_n and_o assistance_n for_o when_o any_o question_n or_o doubt_v of_o faith_n arise_v particular_a doctor_n several_o dispute_v and_o write_v thereof_o then_o if_o far_o need_n require_v it_o the_o holy_a church_n gather_v together_o her_o pastor_n and_o doctor_n in_o a_o council_n to_o examine_v and_o discuss_v the_o matter_n more_o full_o as_o in_o that_o first_o council_n of_o the_o apostle_n 15.6_o act._n 15.6_o whereof_o the_o scripture_n say_v conueneruntque_fw-la apostoli_fw-la &_o seniores_fw-la videre_fw-la de_fw-la verbo_fw-la hoc_fw-la the_o apostle_n ad_fw-la ancient_n assemble_v to_o consider_v of_o this_o word_n the_o pastor_n come_v so_o together_o and_o have_v the_o presence_n of_o our_o saviour_n according_a to_o his_o promise_n and_o his_o holy_a spirit_n out_o of_o the_o prophetical_a and_o apostolical_a scripture_n and_o tradition_n join_v therewith_o the_o authoritye_n and_o interpretation_n of_o holy_a father_n and_o doctor_n out_o of_o praecedent_a time_n she_o do_v infallible_o resolve_v and_o determine_v the_o matter_n not_o as_o new_o but_o as_o ancient_a orthodox_n and_o derive_v from_o her_o forefather_n make_v that_o which_o be_v ever_o in_o itself_o a_o divine_a truth_n so_o to_o appear_v unto_o we_o that_o now_o we_o may_v not_o make_v far_a question_n thereof_o 10._o seq_n vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 27.28.29_o &_o seq_n and_o this_o be_v the_o common_a doctrine_n deliver_v by_o our_o catholic_a doctor_n i_o think_v it_o not_o amiss_o somewhat_o far_o to_o confirm_v and_o authorise_v the_o same_o by_o a_o excellent_a discourse_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o ancient_a father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n not_o recite_v his_o very_a word_n because_o it_o will_v be_v too_o long_o but_o only_o the_o substance_n which_o be_v this_o have_v prove_v by_o the_o word_n depositum_fw-la out_o of_o s._n paul_n that_o a_o pastor_n priest_n preacher_n or_o doctor_n there_o mean_v by_o timothee_n must_v only_o deliver_v the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v deposit_v with_o he_o or_o in_o his_o hand_n not_o find_v out_o by_o he_o which_o he_o have_v receive_v not_o invent_v whereof_o he_o be_v not_o to_o be_v author_n or_o beginner_n but_o the_o keeper_n or_o guardian_n he_o say_v that_o if_o such_o a_o man_n have_v ability_n for_o it_o he_o may_v like_v another_o beseleel_n adorn_v set_v out_o and_o grace_v the_o precious_a jewel_n of_o divine_a faith_n by_o expound_v more_o clear_o that_o which_o before_o be_v believe_v more_o
essay_n of_o your_o poor_a endeavour_n to_o make_v the_o world_n see_v it_o be_v no_o difficult_a matter_n for_o a_o mean_a lay_v man_n to_o prove_v the_o ancient_a visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a profession_n provoke_v thereto_o by_o a_o iesuit_n challenge_n to_o show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n that_o the_o protestant_n church_n be_v visible_a in_o all_o age_n before_o luther_n and_o this_o you_o undertake_v to_o do_v not_o only_o out_o of_o the_o most_o orthodox_n father_n but_o alsoe_o out_o of_o the_o romish_a bishop_n doctor_n cardinal_n etc._n etc._n this_o essay_n of_o your_o labour_n sir_n humphrey_n be_v poor_a indeed_o not_o to_o stand_v complementinge_v with_o you_o as_o i_o shall_v after_o show_v and_o for_o your_o proof_n out_o of_o father_n and_o other_o writer_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n we_o shall_v there_o also_o see_v what_o once_o they_o be_v that_o be_v either_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n or_o out_o of_o author_n brand_v with_o the_o mark_n of_o heresy_n or_o at_o least_o temerity_n and_o singularity_n for_o the_o challenge_n itself_o wherein_o consist_v the_o state_n of_o the_o question_n i_o say_v here_o that_o you_o do_v not_o set_v it_o down_o so_o true_o and_o full_o as_o you_o shall_v for_o you_o be_v to_o show_v the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n by_o name_v some_o who_o in_o all_o age_n do_v profess_v the_o protestant_a faith_n as_o it_o be_v now_o teach_v and_o profess_v in_o england_n entire_o believe_v all_o that_o be_v here_o believe_v and_o beleevinge_v nothing_o else_o that_o be_v contrary_a unto_o it_o which_o you_o may_v have_v do_v if_o it_o can_v be_v do_v out_o of_o some_o good_a history_n without_o stand_v upon_o proof_n of_o the_o particular_a point_n of_o doctrine_n out_o of_o this_o or_o that_o author_n for_o that_o be_v not_o to_o the_o present_a purpose_n 5._o neither_o be_v it_o sufficient_a as_o you_o say_v in_o your_o next_o paragraphe_n see_v it_o be_v confess_v on_o all_o side_n that_o the_o faith_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o first_o age_n have_v visible_a professor_n therefore_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v that_o which_o be_v deliver_v to_o the_o saint_n by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n without_o far_a recital_n of_o succeed_a witness_n this_o i_o say_v be_v not_o sufficient_a for_o the_o challenge_n then_o which_o you_o be_v now_o to_o answer_n and_o controversy_n which_o you_o be_v to_o handle_v be_v not_o so_o much_o of_o the_o truth_n of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a point_n or_o of_o the_o doctrine_n even_o in_o general_a but_o of_o the_o church_n itself_o which_o be_v to_o deliver_v the_o doctrine_n and_o by_o which_o we_o be_v to_o come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n who_o the_o man_n be_v that_o be_v trust_v to_o keep_v the_o depositum_fw-la which_o s._n paul_n give_v timothy_n charge_n of_o where_o the_o church_n be_v which_o the_o same_o s._n paul_n call_v the_o house_n of_o god_n the_o pillar_n and_o firmament_n of_o truth_n which_o be_v the_o seed_n of_o christ_n whereof_o i_o say_v prophesi_v and_o promise_v in_o the_o person_n of_o god_n the_o father_n to_o his_o son_n that_o he_o will_v never_o take_v away_o the_o word_n of_o truth_n from_o their_o mouth_n hoc_fw-la foedus_fw-la meum_fw-la cum_fw-la eye_n dicit_fw-la dominus_fw-la spiritus_fw-la meus_fw-la 59.21_o isai_n 59.21_o qui_fw-la est_fw-la in_o te_fw-la &_o verba_fw-la mea_fw-la quae_fw-la posui_fw-la in_o ore_fw-la tuo_fw-la non_fw-la recedent_fw-la de_fw-fr ore_fw-la tuo_fw-la &_o de_fw-fr ore_fw-la seminis_fw-la tui_fw-la &_o de_fw-fr ore_fw-la seminis_fw-la seminis_fw-la tui_fw-la dicit_fw-la dominus_fw-la amodo_fw-la &_o usque_fw-la in_o sempiternum_fw-la this_o be_v my_o covenant_n with_o they_o say_v our_o lord_n my_o spirit_n that_o be_v in_o thou_o and_o my_o word_n that_o i_o have_v put_v in_o thy_o mouth_n shall_v not_o depart_v out_o of_o thy_o mouth_n and_o out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o thy_o seed_n and_o out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o thy_o seed_n seed_n say_v our_o lord_n from_o this_o present_a and_o for_o ever_o who_o they_o be_v to_o who_o our_o bless_a saviour_n himself_o in_o person_n and_o with_o his_o own_o mouth_n promise_v that_o he_o will_v send_v the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n to_o remain_v with_o they_o for_o ever_o and_o that_o himself_o will_v be_v with_o they_o to_o the_o consummation_n of_o the_o world_n so_o as_o this_o controversy_n be_v of_o the_o church_n itself_o which_o be_v to_o be_v find_v out_o by_o the_o visibility_n and_o succession_n thereof_o not_o so_o much_o by_o the_o doctrine_n it_o can_v be_v no_o way_n sufficient_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v teach_v ancient_o though_o that_o can_v never_o be_v prove_v for_o as_o i_o say_v the_o question_n be_v not_o of_o the_o doctrine_n but_o of_o the_o person_n wherein_o the_o jesuit_n take_v the_o right_a way_n like_o a_o wise_a man_n and_o a_o good_a scholar_n to_o find_v out_o the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v a_o thing_n more_o spiritual_a and_o less_o subject_a to_o the_o sense_n by_o that_o which_o be_v corporal_a and_o more_o subject_a to_o the_o view_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n for_o this_o be_v the_o way_n that_o all_o scholar_n in_o the_o teach_n of_o all_o science_n take_v to_o wit_n to_o begin_v with_o that_o which_o be_v know_v and_o evident_a and_o by_o it_o to_o come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o that_o which_o be_v hide_v according_a to_o aristotel_n doctrine_n 6._o and_o this_o have_v ever_o be_v the_o way_n which_o the_o holy_a father_n have_v take_v either_o in_o prove_v the_o catholic_a faith_n or_o disprovinge_v of_o heresy_n so_o tertullian_n marcio_n tertullian_n praescrip_n cap._n 32._o &_o lib._n 3._o car_n adu_fw-la marcio_n so_o irenaeus_n 43.45.46_o irenaeus_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 1.2.3_o &_o lib._n 4._o cap._n 43.45.46_o so_o cyprian_n 76._o cyprian_n ep_v 52._o &_o 76._o optatus_n parm._n optatus_n lib._n 2._o adver_v parm._n and_o most_o of_o all_o that_o great_a doctor_n s._n augustine_n 7._o augustine_n psal_n 2._o part_n don._n &_o ep_n 165._o &_o the_o util_a credend_a cap._n 7._o in_o several_a place_n and_o particular_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr utilitate_fw-la credenai_fw-la where_o write_n to_o his_o friend_n honoratus_n who_o he_o labour_v to_o draw_v from_o the_o manichaean_n heresy_n and_o put_v case_n that_o he_o do_v doubt_v what_o religion_n to_o follow_v he_o say_v without_o doubt_n he_o be_v to_o begin_v his_o enquiry_n from_o the_o catholic_a church_n proculdubio_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la catholica_fw-la sumendum_fw-la exordium_n for_o say_v he_o whereas_o there_o be_v among_o christian_n many_o heresy_n all_o which_o desire_v to_o seem_v catholic_n and_o call_v other_o haeretique_n there_o be_v one_o church_n as_o all_o grant_n if_o you_o regard_v the_o whole_a world_n refertior_fw-la multitudine_fw-la ut_fw-la autem_fw-la qui_fw-la noverunt_fw-la affirmant_fw-la etiam_fw-la veritate_fw-la sincerior_fw-la caeteris_fw-la omnibus_fw-la sed_fw-la de_fw-la veritate_fw-la alia_fw-la quaestio_fw-la est_fw-la more_o full_a of_o people_n and_o as_o they_o that_o know_v she_o for_o truth_n more_o sincere_a than_o any_o other_o but_o of_o the_o truth_n it_o be_v another_o question_n so_o as_o here_o saint_n augustine_n make_v the_o first_o question_n of_o the_o church_n itself_o which_o he_o make_v to_o be_v the_o first_o thing_n that_o a_o man_n that_o doubt_v and_o seek_v to_o save_v his_o soul_n must_v inquire_v after_o leave_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o doctrine_n to_o be_v dispute_v in_o the_o second_o place_n 19_o praescr_n cap._n 19_o the_o like_a also_o have_v tertullian_n give_v withal_o a_o good_a reason_n thereof_o for_o make_v this_o prescription_n or_o exception_n against_o haeretique_n that_o we_o be_v not_o to_o admit_v they_o so_o far_o as_o to_o dispute_v with_o they_o of_o scripture_n he_o say_v it_o be_v first_o to_o be_v dispute_v quibus_fw-la competat_fw-la fides_fw-la ipsa_fw-la etc._n etc._n to_o who_o faith_n itself_o belong_v to_o the_o which_o the_o scripture_n pertain_v from_o who_o and_o by_o who_o and_o when_o and_o to_o who_o that_o discipline_n be_v deliver_v whereby_o man_n be_v make_v christian_n for_o where_o it_o shall_v appear_v that_o there_o be_v the_o truth_n of_o christian_a discipline_n and_o faith_n there_o shall_v be_v the_o truth_n of_o scripture_n and_o exposition_n and_o all_o christian_a tradition_n so_o tertullian_n in_o who_o judgement_n it_o be_v plain_a that_o we_o be_v first_o to_o seek_v the_o person_n that_o profess_v the_o faith_n that_o be_v the_o church_n because_o there_o certain_o be_v the_o truth_n to_o be_v find_v which_o be_v the_o course_n we_o catholic_n take_v and_o persuade_v other_o man_n to_o take_v follow_v the_o step_n of_o our_o forefather_n to_o wit_n to_o seek_v out_o the_o visible_a church_n whereas_o haeretique_n
not_o much_o short_a of_o idolatry_n for_o tertull_n doubt_v not_o to_o aequal_a they_o nec_fw-la dubitare_fw-la quis_fw-la debet_fw-la neque_fw-la ab_fw-la idolatria_fw-la distare_fw-la haereses_fw-la 40._o tertul._n de_fw-fr praeser_fw-ge cap._n 40._o quum_fw-la &_o auctoris_fw-la &_o operis_fw-la eiusdem_fw-la sint_fw-la cvius_fw-la &_o idolatria_fw-la neither_o ought_v any_o man_n to_o doubt_n that_o heresy_n do_v not_o differ_v from_o idolatry_n since_o their_o author_n and_o work_n be_v the_o same_o which_o idolatry_n nay_o in_o some_o respect_v haeresy_n go_v beyond_o idolatry_n as_o s._n thomas_n well_o show_v and_o s._n hierome_n say_v absolute_o and_o without_o limitation_n esai_n 2.2_o q._n lib._n 7._o in_o esai_n nemo_fw-la tam_fw-la impius_fw-la est_fw-la quem_fw-la haereticus_fw-la impietate_fw-la non_fw-la uincat_fw-la there_o be_v no_o man_n so_o impious_a who_o a_o heretic_n do_v not_o surpass_v in_o impiety_n therefore_o your_o comfort_n be_v vanity_n since_o your_o profession_n be_v impiety_n and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o matter_n 16._o now_o if_o any_o man_n will_v but_o lend_v a_o ear_n he_o shall_v hear_v a_o fine_a conceit_n of_o you_o whereby_o to_o prove_v your_o faith_n ancient_a universal_a and_o what_o not_o that_o be_v by_o answer_v our_o question_n where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n in_o this_o manner_n of_o the_o four_o creed_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o apostle_n of_o nice_a of_o athanasius_n and_o pius_n 4._o you_o believe_v 3._o which_o be_v believe_v before_o luther_n of_o the_o 7._o sacrament_n you_o believe_v 2._o which_o we_o confess_v also_o to_o have_v be_v institute_v by_o christ_n of_o scripture_n you_o acknowledge_v 22._o book_n for_o canonical_a which_o we_o allow_v &_o which_o be_v so_o believe_v before_o luther_n tyme._n 19_o why_o rather_o 7._o counsel_n then_o 17._o or_o 19_o of_o the_o 7._o general_a counsel_n 4._o be_v confirm_v by_o parliament_n in_o england_n not_o call_v by_o luther_n the_o tradition_n universal_o receive_v and_o which_o we_o confess_v to_o be_v apostolical_a be_v derive_v from_o the_o apostle_n to_o you_o as_o you_o say_v not_o from_o luther_n the_o prayer_n in_o your_o common_a prayer_n book_n be_v the_o same_o say_v you_o in_o substance_n with_o our_o ancient_a liturgy_n not_o broach_v by_o luther_n the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n be_v from_o the_o apostle_n not_o from_o luther_n if_o therefore_o say_v you_o the_o 3._o creed_n the_o two_o principal_a sacrament_n the_o 22._o book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n the_o four_o first_o general_n counsel_n the_o apostolic_a tradition_n the_o ancient_a liturgy_n the_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n be_v ancient_o &_o universal_o receive_v in_o all_o age_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n even_o by_o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n be_v it_o not_o a_o silly_a and_o senseless_a question_n to_o demand_v where_o our_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n all_o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n knight_n and_o most_o part_n your_o very_a word_n wherein_o you_o seem_v to_o think_v you_o have_v so_o satisfy_v our_o question_n that_o in_o your_o judgement_n it_o be_v silly_a and_o senseless_a to_o demand_v it_o any_o more_o but_o it_o will_v easy_o appear_v on_o the_o contrary_a side_n what_o a_o silly_a &_o senseless_a thing_n it_o be_v for_o you_o to_o frame_v such_o a_o discourse_n to_o yourself_o and_o much_o more_o so_o to_o publish_v it_o to_o other_o man_n as_o if_o any_o body_n else_o have_v so_o little_a wit_n as_o to_o be_v please_v therewith_o for_o be_v it_o so_o that_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n be_v ancient_o teach_v as_o they_o be_v now_o teach_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n what_o follow_v that_o you_o have_v a_o church_n before_o luther_n nothing_o less_o for_o a_o church_n consist_v not_o of_o point_n of_o doctrine_n or_o faith_n only_o but_o much_o more_o of_o man_n profess_v such_o and_o such_o sacrament_n &_o rite_n such_o a_o faith_n &_o religion_n if_o therefore_o you_o will_v show_v we_o a_o church_n you_o must_v show_v we_o such_o a_o company_n of_o man_n which_o till_o you_o can_v show_v the_o question_n remain_v unanswear_v if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v the_o same_o man_n of_o which_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v then_o consist_v which_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v in_o that_o you_o tell_v we_o your_o church_n be_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n i_o answer_v that_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o as_o now_o since_o luther_n time_n you_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n make_v a_o church_n such_o as_o it_o be_v by_o yourselves_o so_o you_o must_v show_v a_o company_n of_o man_n in_o like_a manner_n distinct_a in_o former_a time_n from_o we_o and_o your_o antiquity_n be_v only_o to_o begin_v from_o such_o a_o time_n as_o you_o begin_v to_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n from_o we_o you_o must_v not_o think_v to_o stand_v and_o contend_v with_o we_o for_o antiquity_n and_o then_o pretend_v our_o antiquity_n to_o be_v you_o but_o you_o must_v show_v a_o distinct_a succession_n of_o bishop_n a_o distinct_a common_a wealth_n or_o people_n profess_v that_o faith_n only_o which_o you_o believe_v &_o practise_v those_o rite_n ceremony_n and_o sacrament_n only_a which_o you_o have_v when_o you_o have_v do_v this_o you_o may_v better_o demand_v what_o a_o silly_a &_o senseless_a question_n it_o be_v to_o ask_v where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n 17._o but_o because_o you_o mention_v your_o be_v in_o former_a age_n in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n not_o only_o here_o but_o else_o where_o often_o in_o this_o your_o treatise_n as_o if_o thereby_o you_o will_v make_v your_o church_n seem_v one_o and_o the_o same_o with_o we_o or_o at_o least_o to_o descend_v from_o we_o 36._o tertull._n de_fw-fr praesâ—r_fw-fr cap._n 36._o and_o so_o to_o participate_v of_o our_o visibility_n and_o universality_n i_o will_v allege_v you_o a_o say_n of_o tertullians_n which_o do_v so_o full_o answer_v the_o matter_n that_o you_o will_v take_v but_o little_a comfort_n in_o the_o manner_n of_o your_o descent_n thus_o it_o be_v tertullian_n have_v allege_v for_o his_o eight_o prescription_n against_o haeretique_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o apostolic_a church_n which_o then_o keep_v the_o very_a authentical_a letter_n write_v to_o they_o by_o the_o apostle_n and_o especial_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o he_o call_v happy_a for_o that_o to_o it_o the_o apostle_n pour_v forth_o all_o their_o whole_a doctrine_n together_o with_o their_o blood_n and_o there_o put_v down_o a_o brief_a sum_n of_o some_o special_a point_n thereof_o conclude_v in_o these_o word_n haec_fw-la est_fw-la institutio_fw-la non_fw-la dico_fw-la iam_fw-la quae_fw-la futuras_fw-la haereses_fw-la praenunciabat_fw-la sed_fw-la de_fw-la qua_fw-la haereses_fw-la prodierunt_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la fuerunt_fw-la ex_fw-la illa_fw-la ex_fw-la quo_fw-la factae_fw-la sunt_fw-la adversus_fw-la illum_fw-la etiam_fw-la de_fw-la oliva_fw-la nucleo_fw-la mitis_fw-la &_o opimae_fw-la &_o necessariae_fw-la asper_fw-la oleaster_n exoritur_fw-la etiam_fw-la de_fw-la papavere_fw-la fici_fw-la gratissimae_fw-la &_o suavissimae_fw-la ventosa_fw-la &_o vana_fw-la caprificus_fw-la exurgit_fw-la ita_fw-la &_o haereses_fw-la de_fw-la nostro_fw-la fructificaverunt_fw-la non_fw-la nostrae_fw-la degeneres_fw-la veritatis_fw-la grano_fw-la &_o mendacio_fw-la siluestre_n this_o be_v the_o institution_n i_o do_v not_o say_v now_o which_o do_v foretell_v heresy_n to_o come_v but_o out_o of_o which_o heresy_n have_v come_v but_o they_o be_v not_o of_o it_o from_o the_o time_n that_o they_o become_v against_o it_o even_o out_o of_o the_o kernel_n of_o the_o mild_a fat_a and_o necessary_a or_o profitable_a olive_n the_o sour_a bastard_n olive_n grow_v from_o the_o seed_n alsoe_o of_o the_o most_o pleasant_a and_o sweet_a figtree_n arise_v the_o windy_a and_o vain_a or_o empty_a wild_a figtree_n and_o so_o have_v heresy_n fructify_v out_o of_o we_o but_o they_o not_o we_o degenerate_v from_o the_o grain_n of_o truth_n and_o become_v wild_a by_o untruth_n or_o lie_v thus_o far_o tertullian_n acknowledge_v indeed_o that_o heresy_n have_v their_o beginning_n from_o we_o that_o be_v that_o the_o man_n that_o broach_v they_o come_v out_o of_o our_o church_n but_o that_o they_o be_v no_o more_o we_o when_o they_o begin_v once_o to_o be_v against_o us._n and_o that_o the_o dishonour_n thereof_o redound_v not_o to_o we_o but_o to_o themselves_o he_o declare_v by_o the_o two_o similitude_n of_o the_o olive_n and_o figgetree_n compare_v we_o to_o the_o true_a and_o fruitful_a tree_n and_o they_o to_o the_o bastard_n vain_a and_o wild_a tree_n issue_v out_o of_o the_o former_a all_o which_o if_o you_o consider_v well_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o will_v find_v it_o but_o a_o small_a honour_n for_o you_o to_o have_v come_v out_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n though_o you_o have_v lie_v never_o so_o long_o in_o the_o very_a bosom_n thereof_o as_o you_o
brag_v for_o from_o the_o time_n you_o have_v begin_v to_o be_v against_o it_o you_o be_v not_o of_o it_o and_o so_o much_o for_o that_o 18._o now_o for_o these_o point_n of_o doctrine_n by_o you_o name_v wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o and_o which_o you_o have_v no_o succession_n of_o your_o own_o you_o can_v have_v it_o by_o any_o other_o mean_v but_o by_o and_o from_o we_o which_o therefore_o be_v we_o and_o not_o you_o we_o do_v not_o question_v you_o for_o your_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n but_o for_o these_o other_o point_n wherein_o you_o disagree_v as_o when_o you_o deny_v the_o doctrine_n declare_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n when_o you_o deny_v our_o seven_o sacrament_n deny_v the_o truth_n of_o one_o of_o these_o two_o sacrament_n to_o wit_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n &_o blood_n &_o necessity_n &_o efficacy_n of_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n baptism_n deny_v our_o canon_n of_o scripture_n our_o number_n of_o counsel_n our_o tradition_n etc._n etc._n for_o this_o be_v your_o faith_n proper_o as_o you_o be_v a_o distinct_a company_n or_o church_n show_v your_o doctrine_n in_o all_o these_o point_n that_o be_v your_o denial_n of_o they_o to_o have_v be_v ancient_o and_o universal_o teach_v or_o even_o before_o luther_n time_n and_o you_o have_v say_v something_o which_o you_o not_o do_v i_o can_v but_o wonder_v to_o see_v you_o so_o silly_a and_o senseless_a to_o use_v your_o own_o word_n as_o to_o think_v you_o have_v say_v something_o to_o the_o purpose_n we_o ask_v you_o the_o antiquity_n of_o your_o doctrine_n that_o be_v wherein_o you_o disagree_v from_o we_o and_o you_o answer_v we_o with_o the_o antiquity_n of_o so_o much_o as_o agree_v with_o we_o which_o be_v to_o answer_v we_o with_o the_o antiquity_n of_o our_o own_o you_o have_v be_v please_v to_o shape_n yourselves_o a_o religion_n out_o of_o we_o and_o you_o plead_v the_o antiquity_n of_o we_o but_o that_o will_v not_o serve_v your_o turn_n that_o shape_n which_o you_o give_v it_o be_v the_o form_n and_o essence_n of_o your_o religion_n so_o long_o then_o as_o that_o be_v new_a your_o religion_n be_v new_a neither_o can_v you_o say_v the_o same_o of_o our_o point_n define_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o say_v by_o ask_v where_o our_o church_n wasâ—_n where_o our_o trent_n doctrine_n and_o article_n of_o the_o roman_a creed_n be_v receive_v de_fw-la fide_fw-la before_o luther_n this_o you_o can_v likewise_o say_v to_o we_o for_o the_o define_n make_v not_o the_o doctrine_n new_a but_o bind_v man_n by_o authority_n of_o a_o council_n to_o believe_v what_o they_o do_v believe_v plain_o by_o tradition_n 32._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 32._o as_o vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v that_o the_o church_n by_o the_o decree_n of_o her_o counsel_n have_v do_v nothing_o else_o but_o that_o what_o she_o have_v before_o receive_v by_o tradition_n only_o she_o shall_v also_o by_o writing_n consign_v to_o posterity_n nec_fw-la quicquam_fw-la conciliorum_fw-la suorum_fw-la decretis_fw-la catholica_fw-la perfecit_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la nisi_fw-la ut_fw-la quod_fw-la prius_fw-la a_o majoribus_fw-la sola_fw-la traditione_n susceperat_fw-la hoc_fw-la deinde_fw-la posteris_fw-la etiam_fw-la per_fw-la scripturae_fw-la chirographum_fw-la consignaret_fw-la of_o which_o see_v more_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n here_o 19_o after_o this_o you_o ask_v again_o if_o your_o doctrine_n lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o say_v you_o no_o romanist_n can_v deny_v if_o it_o become_v hide_v as_o good_a corn_n cover_v with_o chaff_n or_o as_o fine_a gold_n overlay_v with_o a_o great_a quantity_n of_o dross_n whether_o it_o must_v be_v therefore_o new_a and_o unknown_a because_o the_o corn_n be_v not_o sever_v from_o the_o chaff_n the_o gold_n from_o the_o dross_n before_o luther_n time_n and_o than_o you_o bid_v we_o because_o we_o call_v your_o doctrine_n novelty_n to_o remove_v the_o three_o creed_n the_o two_o sacrament_n the_o 22._o canonical_a book_n the_o 4._o first_o general_n counsel_n apostolical_a tradition_n and_o see_v whether_o our_o church_n will_v not_o prove_v a_o poor_a and_o senseless_a carcase_n this_o be_v your_o learned_a discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v ask_v first_n what_o romanist_n do_v acknowledge_v your_o doctrine_n to_o have_v lie_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v ever_o any_o man_n write_v so_o do_v ever_o any_o man_n say_v so_o unto_o you_o nay_o what_o romanist_n have_v ever_o forbear_v upon_o occasion_n offer_v to_o deny_v and_o deny_v it_o again_o you_o teach_v not_o only_o those_o be_v two_o but_o that_o there_o be_v but_o two_o sacrament_n which_o what_o romanist_n ever_o acknowledge_v to_o have_v be_v teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n one_o of_o your_o sacrament_n be_v a_o empty_a piece_n of_o bread_n and_o a_o sup_v of_o wine_n which_o what_o catholic_n will_v ever_o say_v be_v teach_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n you_o allow_v 4._o counsel_n and_o but_o 4._o you_o allow_v 22._o book_n of_o canonical_a scripture_n and_o but_o 22._o will_n any_o catholic_a ever_o allow_v this_o to_o have_v be_v catholic_a doctrine_n take_v away_o your_o yet_o and_o then_o it_o may_v pass_v but_o than_o you_o take_v away_o your_o religion_n but_o here_o be_v one_o thing_n that_o give_v i_o much_o cause_n of_o wonder_n which_o be_v that_o you_o talk_v of_o tradition_n as_o distinct_a from_o scripture_n which_o be_v a_o thing_n that_o i_o do_v little_o expect_v from_o a_o man_n of_o your_o profession_n and_o i_o ever_o take_v you_o to_o be_v so_o fall_v out_o with_o they_o that_o you_o make_v the_o denial_n of_o they_o a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o your_o religion_n and_o that_o therefore_o you_o will_v not_o endure_v the_o word_n tradition_n even_o in_o holy_a scripture_n where_o it_o may_v be_v take_v in_o a_o good_a sense_n but_o always_o translate_v or_o rather_o falsify_v it_o into_o ordinance_n though_o both_o the_o latin_a and_o greek_a word_n do_v signify_v tradition_n most_o express_o but_o this_o your_o allow_v of_o tradition_n be_v not_o a_o thing_n that_o i_o reprehend_v in_o you_o though_o some_o puritan_n minister_n may_v perhaps_o not_o let_v you_o pass_v so_o gentle_o with_o it_o but_o that_o that_o follow_v to_o wit_n that_o you_o shall_v be_v so_o unaduised_a as_o to_o acknowledge_v your_o church_n or_o doctrine_n which_o you_o simple_o and_o confuse_o take_v for_o the_o same_o be_v very_o different_a as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v to_o have_v be_v involue_v in_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o to_o have_v become_v hide_v like_o good_a corn_n cover_v with_o chaff_n and_o like_o gold_n cover_v with_o dross_n till_o luther_n time_n and_o yet_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v visible_a before_o that_o time_n be_v the_o corn_n see_v when_o it_o be_v cover_v with_o chaff_n the_o gold_n when_o it_o be_v cover_v with_o dross_n 20._o answ_n to_o cook_n rep_v ep_v dedicat_fw-la nu_fw-la 20._o 20._o my_o lord_n cook_n show_v himself_o somewhat_o wise_a when_o ask_v himself_o the_o question_n which_o we_o ask_v you_o to_o wit_n where_o your_o church_n be_v before_o luther_n he_o answer_v it_o make_v no_o great_a matter_n where_o it_o be_v so_o he_o be_v certain_a it_o be_v confess_v thereby_o that_o his_o church_n be_v indeed_o invisible_a but_o yet_o in_o be_v which_o because_o it_o seem_v hard_a to_o persuade_v any_o man_n he_o bring_v a_o fine_a similitude_n of_o a_o wedge_n of_o gold_n dissolve_v and_o mix_v with_o brass_n tin_n and_o other_o metal_n which_o he_o say_v do_v not_o therefore_o loose_v his_o nature_n but_o remain_v gold_n though_o we_o can_v not_o determine_v in_o what_o part_n of_o the_o mass_n it_o be_v contain_v this_o be_v somewhat_o more_o like_a for_o a_o man_n by_o such_o a_o similitude_n to_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o church_n may_v subsist_v invisible_o for_o the_o which_o nevertheless_o a_o catholic_a divine_a tell_v he_o his_o own_o very_o sound_o but_o for_o you_o sir_n knight_n to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o your_o church_n by_o such_o a_o similitude_n it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v believe_v unless_o a_o man_n do_v see_v it_o in_o print_n you_o labour_v to_o prove_v your_o church_n to_o have_v be_v visible_a before_o luther_n time_n and_o yet_o you_o confess_v she_o to_o have_v begin_v her_o visibility_n by_o luther_n for_o thus_o you_o ask_v be_v there_o no_o good_a corn_n in_o the_o granary_n of_o the_o church_n because_o for_o many_o year_n space_n till_o luther_n day_n it_o be_v not_o sever_v from_o the_o chaff_n to_o sever_v the_o corn_n from_o the_o chaff_n wherewith_o it_o be_v cover_v be_v to_o make_v it_o visible_a if_o then_o luther_n do_v first_o sever_v it_o he_o
this_o point_n alone_o nor_o do_v campian_n mean_a that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o man_n that_o do_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o any_o one_o of_o your_o erroneous_a point_n but_o that_o there_o be_v never_o any_o house_n village_n or_o city_n that_o do_v agree_v with_o you_o in_o your_o whole_a faith_n and_o religion_n or_o make_v the_o same_o church_n with_o you_o and_o for_o the_o mangling_fw-mi and_o raze_v one_o of_o aelfrick_n latin_a epistle_n wherewith_o you_o charge_v we_o first_o sir_n it_o be_v not_o like_a by_o this_o that_o he_o say_v in_o his_o homily_n wherewith_o you_o say_v the_o epistle_n agree_v that_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n against_o we_o and_o if_o there_o be_v know_v you_o sir_n it_o be_v not_o our_o fashion_n to_o deal_v so_o with_o author_n but_o if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n contrary_a to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n we_o do_v what_o be_v to_o be_v do_v public_o as_o have_v authority_n and_o know_v what_o we_o do_v correct_v modern_a author_n in_o what_o they_o err_v &_o for_o ancient_a author_n note_v only_o what_o be_v amiss_o 4._o v._o reg_fw-la indi_fw-la de_fw-la correct_v lib._n §._o 4._o but_o not_o raze_v or_o blot_v out_o any_o thing_n that_o corner_n correct_v we_o leave_v for_o such_o corner_n companion_n as_o shun_v the_o light_n and_o so_o your_o principal_a argument_n be_v answer_v i_o go_v on_o to_o the_o rest_n 11._o first_o you_o tell_v we_o we_o be_v divide_v among_o ourselves_o touch_v the_o antiquity_n and_o universality_n of_o transubstantiation_n some_o derive_v it_o as_o you_o say_v from_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n some_o from_o his_o benediction_n before_o the_o word_n some_o from_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o father_n some_o from_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n some_o from_o scripture_n some_o from_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n where_o to_o fill_v paper_n and_o make_v a_o show_n you_o repeat_v again_o the_o same_o thing_n for_o what_o difference_n for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o this_o matter_n be_v there_o between_o the_o determination_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n between_o scripture_n and_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n but_o to_o let_v that_o go_v i_o say_v first_o your_o phrase_n of_o derive_v be_v improper_a as_o you_o use_v it_o for_o we_o derive_v our_o doctrine_n by_o succession_n from_o those_o man_n that_o have_v go_v before_o we_o by_o degree_n to_o the_o apostle_n time_n show_v that_o in_o all_o age_n and_o time_n it_o have_v be_v teach_v and_o believe_v but_o to_o speak_v proper_o we_o not_o derive_v but_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o doctrine_n out_o of_o scripture_n counsel_n father_n etc._n etc._n though_o the_o derivation_n be_v also_o a_o proof_n but_o yet_o different_a from_o that_o of_o scripture_n and_o counsel_n second_o you_o speak_v very_o general_o and_o confuse_o for_o whereas_o there_o be_v diverse_a thing_n in_o question_n between_o you_o and_o we_o as_o the_o realnes_n of_o christ_n presence_n in_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n and_o transubstantiation_n other_o among_o catholic_n themselves_n as_o whither_o or_o how_o far_o these_o point_n may_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n etc._n etc._n or_o by_o what_o word_n or_o action_n this_o change_n be_v make_v you_o make_v no_o distinction_n at_o all_o of_o any_o of_o these_o thing_n nor_o speak_v any_o thing_n certain_o or_o constant_o of_o any_o of_o they_o but_o run_v hop_v up_o and_o down_o from_o one_o to_o another_o now_o forward_o now_o backward_o that_o no_o man_n can_v tell_v where_o to_o find_v you_o but_o though_o this_o confusion_n of_o you_o cause_n a_o little_a more_o trouble_n and_o length_n in_o answer_v yet_o in_o the_o end_n it_o will_v discover_v your_o ignorance_n and_o vanity_n the_o more_o 12._o to_o begin_v then_o with_o you_o i_o will_v know_v to_o what_o purpose_n you_o allege_v our_o author_n in_o thing_n controvert_v among_o themselves_o only_o either_o now_o because_o they_o be_v not_o define_v or_o heretofore_o when_o other_o thing_n then_o controvert_v be_v not_o define_v though_o they_o be_v since_o and_o consequent_o out_o of_o controversy_n do_v this_o difference_n of_o our_o author_n make_v any_o thing_n for_o you_o noe_o very_o but_o much_o against_o you_o for_o their_o modest_a manner_n of_o dispute_v of_o these_o thing_n with_o due_a submission_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n to_o who_o censure_n they_o leave_v themselves_o their_o opinion_n and_o writing_n &_o their_o silence_n as_o soon_o as_o she_o do_v speak_v be_v a_o manifest_a condemnation_n of_o your_o haeretical_a pride_n that_o will_v stand_v to_o no_o judgement_n but_o your_o own_o and_o even_o those_o opinion_n of_o they_o which_o you_o take_v hold_v of_o they_o virtual_o retract_v so_o far_o as_o either_o they_o may_v be_v any_o way_n against_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n or_o in_o favour_n of_o haeretique_n which_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n you_o seek_v therefore_o in_o any_o thing_n wherein_o they_o may_v dissent_v from_o the_o common_a belief_n as_o they_o do_v not_o bind_v we_o so_o they_o do_v not_o favour_v you_o but_o of_o this_o i_o say_v enough_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n though_o in_o the_o authoritye_n which_o you_o here_o allege_v there_o be_v not_o much_o need_n of_o this_o for_o either_o they_o say_v nothing_o against_o we_o or_o you_o corrupt_v they_o as_o i_o shall_v show_v 13._o and_o to_o begin_v with_o caietan_n in_o matter_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n you_o say_v out_o of_o suarez_n he_o teach_v that_o these_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n do_v not_o of_o themselves_o sufficient_o prove_v transubstantiation_n without_o the_o suppose_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o therefore_o by_o command_n of_o pius_n v._o that_o part_n of_o his_o commentary_n be_v leave_v out_o of_o the_o romish_a edition_n thus_o you_o where_o first_o according_a to_o your_o usual_a liberty_n of_o falsify_v you_o put_v in_o the_o word_n suppose_v of_o your_o own_o to_o make_v the_o speech_n sound_v somewhat_o contemptible_o of_o the_o church_n whereas_o there_o be_v no_o such_o word_n in_o suarez_n his_o latin_a text_n which_o you_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n second_o you_o put_v in_o the_o word_n transubstantiation_n which_o suarez_n there_o speak_v not_o of_o as_o be_v evident_a but_o only_o of_o the_o real_a presence_n which_o be_v a_o distinct_a thing_n though_o you_o confound_v they_o and_o in_o that_o suarez_n indeed_o &_o the_o whole_a school_n of_o divines_n do_v worthy_o condemn_v cajetan_v for_o say_v that_o those_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n do_v not_o sufficient_o prove_v the_o real_a presence_n of_o our_o sauiour_n body_n for_o singularity_n whereof_o caietan_n be_v often_o note_v in_o matter_n of_o such_o moment_n be_v very_o much_o to_o be_v condemn_v in_o a_o divine_a &_o therefore_o pius_n v._o with_o great_a reason_n command_v that_o to_o be_v blot_v out_o agreeable_o to_o the_o rule_v praescribe_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n for_o correct_v of_o book_n whereof_o you_o complain_v much_o as_o think_v cajetan_v somewhat_o to_o favour_v your_o side_n yet_o you_o be_v extreme_o mistake_v and_o by_o allege_v caietanes_n authority_n in_o this_o you_o give_v yourself_o a_o wound_n for_o though_o he_o do_v not_o give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o to_o be_v sufficient_a of_o themselves_o to_o prove_v the_o reality_n of_o christ_n presence_n yet_o he_o say_v that_o join_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n exposition_n of_o they_o they_o be_v sufficient_a as_o he_o say_v in_o express_a word_n which_o yourself_o after_o cite_v and_o yet_o you_o can_v allege_v he_o for_o you_o as_o you_o think_v here_o and_o which_o be_v more_o impudence_n you_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o say_v that_o caietan_n deni_v the_o bread_n to_o be_v transubstantiate_v by_o those_o word_n for_o where_o have_v caietan_n such_o a_o word_n or_o even_a shadow_n of_o a_o word_n you_o think_v perhaps_o because_o in_o his_o opinion_n those_o word_n do_v not_o sufficient_o of_o themselves_o prove_v the_o verity_n of_o christ_n presence_n that_o therefore_o they_o do_v not_o sufficient_o cause_v it_o but_o if_o you_o think_v so_o as_o you_o seem_v you_o be_v much_o mistake_v for_o those_o be_v two_o different_a thing_n for_o example_n in_o baptism_n the_o word_n i_o baptize_v thou_o etc._n etc._n beside_o the_o cleanse_n of_o the_o soul_n from_o sin_n original_a &_o actual_a cause_n also_o the_o remission_n of_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n &_o imprint_v a_o spiritual_a character_n in_o the_o soul_n though_o these_o effect_n can_v be_v prove_v out_o of_o the_o signification_n of_o the_o word_n and_o so_o alsoe_o a_o man_n may_v say_v of_o the_o form_n of_o the_o eucharist_n the_o proof_n depend_v upon_o the_o speculative_a signification_n of_o
conveniret_fw-la sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la fieri_fw-la communionem_fw-la quam_fw-la sub_fw-la altera_fw-la tantum_fw-la hoc_fw-la enim_fw-la magis_fw-la consonum_fw-la est_fw-la eius_fw-la institutioni_fw-la &_o integritati_fw-la &_o refectioni_fw-la corporali_fw-la &_o exemplo_fw-la christi_fw-la etc._n etc._n that_o be_v if_o we_o regard_v the_o sacrament_n and_o the_o perfection_n thereof_o it_o be_v more_o convenient_a to_o have_v the_o communion_n under_o both_o kind_n then_o under_o one_o for_o this_o be_v more_o agreeable_a to_o the_o institution_n thereof_o and_o the_o integrity_n and_o corporal_a resection_n and_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n etc._n etc._n where_o first_o you_o leave_v out_o in_o your_o english_a translation_n those_o word_n habito_fw-la respectu_fw-la ad_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la though_o you_o put_v they_o in_o latin_a in_o the_o margin_n which_o word_n be_v the_o life_n of_o the_o sentence_n and_o plain_o show_v that_o tapper_n do_v not_o speak_v of_o the_o conveniency_n absolute_o and_o all_o thing_n consider_v but_o in_o some_o respect_n to_o wit_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o sacrament_n or_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o signification_n of_o our_o sauiour_n passion_n which_o be_v more_o express_a in_o both_o kind_n then_o in_o one_o &_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o institution_n which_o be_v in_o both_o &_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o integrity_n because_o as_o the_o divine_n say_v both_o the_o species_n be_v part_n integrantes_fw-la as_o two_o piece_n of_o bread_n in_o one_o loaf_n though_o both_o together_o have_v no_o more_o essential_a perfection_n than_o one_o alone_a and_o in_o respect_n of_o corporal_a refection_n which_o as_o it_o require_v meat_n and_o drink_v so_o the_o spiritual_a refection_n be_v more_o express_o signify_v by_o both_o though_o no_o less_o effectual_o perform_v by_o one_o so_o that_o this_o while_n tapper_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o absolute_a conveniency_n but_o only_o in_o some_o respect_n wherein_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o reader_n whether_o you_o have_v keep_v your_o promise_n of_o not_o wilful_o or_o witting_o misciting_a or_o mistranslate_n any_o author_n for_o here_o it_o appear_v how_o you_o have_v mis-translated_n leave_v out_o as_o a_o man_n may_v say_v the_o principal_a verb_n which_o shall_v yet_o more_o appear_v by_o that_o which_o follow_v immediate_o in_o the_o same_o author_n which_o be_v this_o alia_fw-la tamen_fw-la consideratione_n reverentia_fw-la uz._n quae_fw-la huic_fw-la sacramento_n dbetur_fw-la utque_fw-la in_o eius_fw-la usu_fw-la vitemus_fw-la omneâ—â—â—reverentian_n minus_fw-la convenit_fw-la atque_fw-la etiam_fw-la malun_fw-la est_fw-la nulloque_fw-la modâ—_n expediens_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la ut_fw-la populus_fw-la christianus_n sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la communicaret_fw-la bâ—â—_n in_o another_o consideration_n to_o wit_n of_o the_o reverence_n which_o be_v dew_n to_o this_o sacrament_n and_o to_o the_o end_n we_o may_v avoid_v all_o irreverence_n it_o be_v less_o convenient_a and_o even_o it_o be_v ill_a and_o no_o way_n expedient_a for_o the_o church_n that_o the_o christian_a people_n shall_v communicate_v under_o both_o kind_n loe_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v it_o honest_o do_v of_o you_o to_o leave_v out_o this_o be_v the_o other_o half_n of_o the_o sentence_n answer_v to_o the_o former_a which_o of_o itself_o be_v imperfect_a and_o which_o be_v the_o author_n absolute_a judgement_n and_o determination_n can_v any_o man_n ever_o give_v you_o credit_v more_o but_o because_o sir_n i_o will_v not_o leave_v any_o scruple_n in_o any_o man_n mind_n concern_v this_o author_n meaning_n and_o that_o by_o the_o perfection_n and_o integrity_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o former_a part_n of_o the_o sentence_n he_o do_v not_o mean_v the_o want_n of_o any_o spiritual_a fruit_n i_o will_v add_v one_o word_n more_o out_o of_o he_o which_o be_v this_o in_o omissione_n calicis_fw-la nullum_fw-la interuenit_fw-la peccatum_fw-la aut_fw-la periculum_fw-la nec_fw-la aliquod_fw-la gratiae_fw-la spiritualis_fw-la iactum_fw-la in_o the_o omit_v or_o leave_v of_o the_o chalice_n there_o be_v no_o sin_n or_o danger_n or_o loss_n of_o any_o spiritual_a grace_n what_o can_v he_o say_v or_o we_o desire_v more_o 10._o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o your_o conclusion_n which_o you_o draw_v out_o of_o that_o that_o because_o many_o father_n and_o learned_a man_n do_v agree_v in_o say_v that_o the_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n be_v most_o frequent_a in_o the_o primitive_a church_n therefore_o they_o give_v testimony_n of_o your_o doctrine_n it_o be_v most_o foolish_a for_o we_o also_o agree_v with_o they_o in_o the_o former_a and_o yet_o deny_v your_o doctrine_n which_o be_v that_o all_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n &_o consequent_o that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o to_o receive_v it_o in_o one_o kind_n and_o that_o so_o to_o receive_v it_o be_v to_o receive_v but_o a_o half_a communion_n and_o such_o like_a absurditye_n this_o be_v your_o doctrine_n for_o proof_n whereof_o you_o have_v not_o bring_v one_o word_n out_o of_o any_o author_n but_o bring_v some_o that_o say_v absolute_o and_o express_o the_o contrary_a as_o val._n tapper_n bell._n etc._n etc._n nay_o what_o will_v you_o say_v if_o a_o man_n shall_v show_v you_o out_o of_o your_o own_o statute_n law_n make_v now_o in_o this_o your_o time_n of_o reformation_n some_o approbation_n or_o allowance_n of_o the_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n 1._o 1._o edw._n 6._o cap._n 1._o which_o be_v the_o thing_n you_o exclaim_v so_o against_o we_o for_o see_v in_o the_o law_n of_o k._n edw._n 6._o reviue_v and_o confirm_v by_o q._n elizabeth_n whether_o they_o do_v not_o say_v only_o that_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v common_o deliver_v &_o minister_v to_o the_o people_n under_o both_o kind_n 1._o 1._o eliz._n ca._n 1._o &_o with_o this_o exception_n also_o unless_o necessity_n otherwise_o require_v look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n be_v it_o not_o here_o allow_v upon_o necessity_n though_o the_o necessity_n be_v not_o express_v what_o or_o how_o great_a it_o must_v be_v but_o hence_o it_o follow_v that_o if_o particular_a necessity_n may_v excuse_v in_o a_o particular_a case_n if_o the_o necessity_n shall_v prove_v great_a &_o universal_a it_o may_v be_v also_o sufficient_a for_o abstayn_v from_o one_o kind_n universal_o or_o general_o and_o howsoever_o it_o show_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n not_o to_o be_v so_o strict_o command_v by_o christ_n for_o if_o it_o be_v no_o necessity_n can_v excuse_v it_o in_o one_o kind_a 11._o and_o so_o this_o may_v serve_v for_o this_o matter_n but_o that_o i_o be_o loath_a to_o let_v pass_v a_o worthy_a say_n of_o you_o in_o the_o very_a end_n of_o this_o §_o which_o be_v this_o and_o as_o concern_v the_o half_a communion_n which_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n as_o it_o want_v antiquity_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n by_o their_o own_o confession_n so_o likewise_o it_o want_v a_o right_a foundation_n in_o the_o scripture_n which_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o have_v thus_o you_o where_o with_o your_o worship_n good_a leave_n a_o man_n may_v tell_v you_o you_o have_v as_o many_o fault_n as_o word_n we_o teach_v all_o the_o contrary_a to_o wit_n that_o it_o be_v not_o half_a communion_n but_o that_o christ_n be_v receive_v whole_a and_o entire_a and_o a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o as_o much_o spiritual_a fruit_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n in_o one_o kind_a as_o both_o as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n by_o your_o confession_n define_v we_o say_v it_o neither_o want_v antiquity_n nor_o consent_n of_o father_n as_o you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o many_o other_o we_o say_v it_o do_v not_o want_v a_o right_a foundation_n in_o the_o scripture_n for_o as_o i_o say_v before_o we_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o the_o scripture_n 24._o v._o bell._n lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr euch._n cap._n 24._o both_o of_o the_o old_a &_o new_a testament_n the_o doctrine_n and_o example_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o his_o apostle_n express_v in_o scripture_n we_o say_v also_o to_o conclude_v therewith_o that_o it_o be_v most_o false_a of_o all_o which_o you_o take_v every_o where_o for_o a_o very_a truth_n as_o if_o it_o be_v agree_v upon_o on_o all_o side_n to_o wit_n that_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n must_v have_v sufficient_a and_o express_a proof_n of_o scripture_n whereas_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n and_o as_o general_o conclude_v among_o all_o divine_n and_o father_n as_o you_o bold_o affirm_v you_o which_o assertion_n therefore_o of_o you_o i_o here_o absolute_o deny_v once_o for_o all_o and_o though_o i_o need_v not_o stand_v prove_v it_o be_v every_o where_n in_o all_o our_o author_n yet_o for_o the_o reader_n sake_n i_o will_v cite_v one_o place_n of_o s._n jerome_n come_v first_o to_o my_o memory_n who_o have_v prove_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n against_o the_o luciferian_n haeretique_n out_o of_o
church_n be_v to_o be_v speak_v aloud_o for_o say_v bell._n there_o be_v many_o as_o may_v be_v gather_v out_o the_o very_a constitution_n itself_o who_o to_o hide_v their_o own_o ignorance_n do_v contrary_a to_o the_o receive_a custom_n pronounce_v those_o thing_n soft_o which_o shall_v have_v be_v pronounce_v aloud_o and_o this_o to_o be_v so_o may_v appear_v plain_o by_o the_o law_n itself_o which_o you_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o have_v read_v for_o you_o cite_v it_o only_o out_o of_o your_o cassander_n who_o serve_v you_o to_o great_a steed_n for_o most_o of_o your_o citation_n 7._o you_o have_v in_o the_o next_o place_n a_o text_n out_o of_o the_o canon_n law_n the_o former_a be_v out_o of_o the_o civil_a to_o show_v your_o learning_n in_o all_o science_n ord._n cap._n quonian_a in_o plaerisque_fw-la de_fw-fr off_z iud_fw-la ord._n you_o cite_v it_o thus_o we_o command_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o such_o city_n and_o diocese_n where_o nation_n be_v mingle_v together_o provide_v meet_a man_n to_o minister_v the_o holy_a service_n according_a to_o the_o diversity_n of_o manner_n and_o language_n the_o word_n be_v these_o in_o latin_a pontifices_fw-la huiusmodi_fw-la civitatem_fw-la sive_fw-la dioceseon_n provideant_fw-la viros_fw-la qui_fw-la secundum_fw-la diversitates_fw-la rituum_fw-la &_o linguarum_fw-la divina_fw-la illis_fw-la officia_fw-la celebrent_fw-la &_o ecclesiastica_fw-la sacramenta_fw-la ministrent_fw-la instruendo_fw-la eos_fw-la pariter_fw-la verbo_fw-la &_o exemplo_fw-la in_o english_a thus_o letâ—_n the_o bishop_n of_o such_o city_n ordiocess_n provide_v meet_a man_n who_o according_a to_o the_o diversity_n of_o rite_n and_o language_n may_v celebrate_v unto_o they_o the_o divine_a office_n and_o administer_v unto_o they_o the_o ecclesiastical_a sacrament_n instruct_v they_o both_o by_o word_n and_o example_n whereby_o you_o see_v sir_n humphrey_n you_o may_v have_v cite_v the_o place_n more_o true_o though_o that_o be_v not_o so_o much_o the_o matter_n i_o cite_v it_o full_o for_o but_o for_o another_o purpose_n as_o you_o shall_v see_v when_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o bellarmine_n answer_n to_o this_o objection_n which_o be_v this_o that_o this_o decree_n speak_v only_o of_o the_o 2._o language_n greeke_n and_o latin_a for_o it_o be_v make_v by_o inno._n 3._o in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n because_o constantinople_n have_v be_v take_v not_o long_o before_o by_o the_o latin_n and_o then_o there_o be_v a_o latin_a emperor_n and_o patriarch_n and_o many_o latin_n by_o that_o occasion_n be_v mingle_v with_o the_o grecians_n in_o the_o same_o city_n they_o make_v a_o proposition_n in_o the_o council_n that_o they_o may_v have_v 2._o bishop_n one_o latin_a another_o greek_a to_o this_o the_o pope_n and_o council_n make_v answer_n that_o it_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o have_v 2._o bishop_n of_o one_o city_n but_o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o city_n shall_v substitute_v another_o in_o his_o room_n to_o celebrate_v the_o divine_a office_n and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n according_a to_o their_o own_o rite_n and_o language_n and_o this_o bellarm._n prove_v to_o be_v the_o true_a meaning_n of_o this_o decree_n not_o only_o out_o of_o the_o story_n but_o also_o by_o the_o effect_n for_o if_o this_o decree_n have_v concern_v the_o latin_a church_n any_o way_n it_o shall_v have_v be_v put_v in_o practice_n in_o some_o place_n thereof_o and_o most_o of_o all_o in_o italy_n in_o the_o pope_n sight_n but_o there_o be_v no_o sign_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n but_o plain_a proof_n to_o the_o contrary_n which_o answer_n be_v clear_a and_o solid_a but_o beside_o this_o answer_n of_o bellarmine_n a_o man_n may_v answer_n also_o that_o the_o council_n speak_v of_o two_o thing_n here_o to_o wit_n of_o celebrate_v the_o divine_a office_n and_o administer_a sacrament_n and_o then_o put_v two_o thing_n more_o answer_v unto_o those_o two_o to_o wit_n rite_n and_o language_n rite_n answer_v to_o divine_a office_n and_o language_n to_o sacrament_n as_o if_o it_o have_v say_v let_v such_o bishop_n provide_v man_n who_o may_v celebrate_v the_o divine_a office_n according_a to_o the_o diversity_n of_o their_o rite_n and_o administer_v the_o sacrament_n according_a to_o the_o diversity_n of_o their_o language_n for_o indeed_o it_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o necessity_n in_o administration_n of_o some_o sacrament_n to_o use_v the_o vulgar_a language_n as_o in_o marriage_n &_o penance_n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o of_o other_o thing_n for_o this_o reason_n than_o i_o cite_v the_o place_n as_o it_o be_v and_o though_o you_o may_v cavil_n at_o this_o answer_n yet_o i_o see_v not_o though_o there_o be_v no_o other_o why_o it_o may_v not_o serve_v for_o as_o good_a a_o objection_n as_o you_o 8._o but_o now_o you_o say_v you_o will_v not_o stand_v prove_v this_o point_n any_o more_o by_o cite_v the_o particular_a father_n but_o you_o will_v bring_v our_o own_o man_n confess_v that_o prayer_n and_o service_n in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n be_v use_v in_o the_o first_o and_o best_a age_n according_a to_o the_o precept_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o father_n and_o then_o you_o bring_v lyra_n joannes_n belethus_n gretzerus_n harding_n cassand_n and_o 2._o or_o 3._o more_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v true_a as_o these_o author_n say_v that_o in_o the_o beginning_n it_o be_v so_o but_o what_o think_v you_o be_v the_o reason_n even_o because_o those_o three_o holy_a language_n hebrew_n greek_a and_o latin_a be_v most_o vulgar_a and_o common_a the_o hebrew_n in_o jerusalem_n and_o the_o part_n adjoin_v the_o greek_a in_o greece_n where_o s._n paul_n preach_v most_o and_o latin_a at_o rome_n &_o other_o part_n subject_a to_o the_o roman_a empire_n for_o if_o you_o mark_v it_o sir_n humphrey_n most_o of_o your_o author_n which_o you_o bring_v speak_v this_o of_o prayer_n and_o benediction_n be_v wont_a to_o be_v make_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n by_o occasion_n of_o that_o 14._o chap._n of_o the_o 1._o to_o the_o corinthian_n where_o greeke_n be_v the_o vulgar_a and_o indeed_o that_o it_o be_v the_o vulgarne_n or_o commonesse_n of_o the_o tongue_n that_o the_o apostle_n regard_v most_o in_o their_o writing_n of_o scripture_n and_o the_o like_a it_o be_v plain_a by_o that_o that_o s._n paul_n of_o his_o 14._o epistle_n which_o he_o write_v to_o so_o many_o several_a nation_n and_o person_n he_o write_v only_o one_o in_o hebrew_n to_o wit_n that_o to_o the_o hebrew_n the_o other_o thirteen_o in_o greek_a even_o that_o to_o the_o roman_n though_o greek_a be_v not_o their_o vulgar_a or_o natural_a language_n and_o so_o do_v all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n save_v only_o s._n matthew_n who_o write_v his_o gospel_n in_o hebrew_n and_o as_o some_o say_v s._n mark_v who_o write_v his_o in_a latin_a though_o many_o doubt_n of_o that_o and_o say_v rather_o that_o he_o write_v it_o in_o greek_a whereof_o what_o other_o reason_n can_v there_o be_v but_o the_o uniformity_n which_o the_o apostle_n will_v have_v to_o be_v observe_v in_o the_o church_n by_o use_v for_o scripture_n and_o divine_a office_n those_o language_n which_o be_v more_o universal_a and_o common_a to_o most_o nation_n thereby_o to_o draw_v all_o to_o unity_n which_o though_o it_o can_v not_o be_v so_o absolute_a as_o to_o come_v to_o the_o use_n of_o one_o only_a language_n yet_o they_o restrain_v it_o to_o those_o few_o most_o universal_a language_n hebrew_n greek_a 15._o s._n hillar_n ap_fw-mi bell._n lib._n 2._o de_fw-fr verb._n dâ—i_n c._n 15._o and_o latin_a which_o be_v dedicate_v upon_o the_o cross_n our_o saviour_n title_n be_v write_v in_o those_o three_o language_n by_o mystery_n as_o holy_a father_n note_n to_o signify_v that_o by_o they_o christ_n his_o name_n and_o faith_n be_v to_o be_v most_o publish_v and_o preach_v over_o the_o whole_a world_n and_o for_o proof_n hereof_o we_o say_v it_o have_v not_o be_v ever_o hear_v of_o that_o any_o part_n of_o scripture_n be_v original_o write_v in_o other_o language_n or_o that_o there_o be_v any_o liturgy_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o near_o their_o time_n or_o any_o translation_n of_o scripture_n in_o other_o language_n much_o less_o be_v it_o ever_o hear_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v read_v in_o the_o meeting_n of_o christian_n or_o celebration_n of_o the_o divine_a mystery_n in_o other_o language_n then_o that_o wherein_o they_o be_v ordinary_o have_v and_o read_v to_o wit_n in_o some_o one_o of_o those_o language_n of_o late_a time_n we_o confess_v there_o have_v be_v use_n of_o other_o language_n as_o arabic_a chaldaic_a and_o the_o like_a but_o yet_o so_o as_o that_o the_o church_n have_v ever_o make_v choice_n of_o some_o one_o language_n which_o have_v be_v very_o common_a to_o many_o kingdom_n and_o nation_n not_o proper_a to_o any_o particular_a
apostasy_n and_o future_a damnation_n to_o each_o other_o this_o poor_a friar_n repent_v himself_o and_o thereupon_o come_v back_o to_o his_o monastery_n and_o do_v penance_n rather_o choose_v to_o suffer_v a_o little_a outward_a austerity_n then_o to_o carry_v about_o in_o the_o bottom_n of_o his_o soul_n such_o a_o inward_a assure_a testimony_n and_o belief_n of_o his_o eternal_a damnation_n as_o he_o see_v these_o two_o do_v i_o may_v say_v more_o of_o the_o man_n fine_a feat_n but_o there_o be_v book_n in_o dutch_a particular_o of_o they_o as_o i_o hear_v and_o so_o i_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o in_o this_o your_o learned_a buxhorne_n who_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n of_o licentiate_a make_v a_o doctor_n as_o in_o all_o your_o other_o learned_a man_n that_o bless_a martyr_n f._n edmund_n campian_n hit_v the_o right_a vein_n and_o discover_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o their_o apostasy_n when_o he_o tell_v the_o university_n man_n it_o be_v not_o any_o chark_n or_o hammer_n that_o hold_v they_o back_o as_o i_o may_v say_v also_o it_o be_v not_o any_o raze_n of_o evidence_n that_o make_v boxhorne_n fall_v from_o his_o faith_n but_o that_o there_o be_v certain_a lutheran_n bait_n wherewith_o many_o of_o they_o be_v catch_v which_o be_v aurum_fw-la gloria_fw-la delitiae_fw-la veneres_fw-la gold_n glory_n delight_n and_o venus_n of_o which_o some_o be_v catch_v with_o one_o some_o with_o another_o and_o so_o you_o see_v this_o your_o learned_a professor_n have_v so_o deep_o swallow_v the_o last_o of_o the_o four_o bait_n that_o it_o make_v his_o stomach_n turn_v at_o the_o catholic_a faith_n which_o exhort_v he_o to_o contemn_v some_o of_o they_o as_o gold_n &_o glory_n and_o force_v he_o to_o forbear_v other_o as_o his_o base_a and_o bestial_a delight_n and_o so_o forsake_v all_o obedience_n to_o humane_a and_o divine_a law_n at_o one_o clapp_n become_v a_o rebel_n to_o his_o prince_n a_o apostata_fw-la to_o religion_n and_o enemy_n to_o the_o catholic_a faith_n therefore_o of_o such_o fellow_n there_o be_v no_o other_o account_n to_o be_v make_v but_o let_v they_o go_v as_o the_o scripture_n say_v of_o one_o of_o their_o chief_a leader_n 2.25_o act._n 2.25_o ut_fw-la abiret_fw-la in_o locum_fw-la suum_fw-la that_o he_o may_v go_v into_o his_o own_o place_n of_o the_o 14._o sect._n the_o title_n whereof_o be_v this_o 14._o chap._n 14._o our_o adversary_n convict_v of_o their_o defence_n of_o a_o desperate_a cause_n by_o their_o blasphemous_a exception_n against_o the_o scripture_n itself_o chapter_n fourteen_o 1._o to_o this_o section_n the_o knight_n give_v a_o beginning_n by_o occasion_n of_o boxhorne_n word_n in_o the_o last_o section_n of_o a_o idol_n in_o the_o temple_n whereupon_o he_o very_o witty_o tell_v we_o that_o when_o we_o see_v the_o abomination_n of_o desolation_n stand_v in_o the_o holy_a place_n we_o must_v fly_v to_o the_o mountain_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o s._n chrysostome_n say_v but_o yet_o he_o think_v we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o trial_n of_o scripture_n because_o say_v he_o be_v we_o not_o all_o eye_n witness_n that_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n be_v call_v in_o question_n at_o the_o pope_n assize_n and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v of_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n in_o their_o gospel_n be_v not_o the_o sacred_a bible_n say_v he_o rank_v inter_fw-la libros_fw-la prohibitos_fw-la in_o the_o first_o place_n in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o forbid_a book_n &_o then_o he_o bring_v corn._n agrippa_n complain_v of_o the_o inquisitor_n that_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v man_n to_o prove_v their_o opinion_n by_o scripture_n this_o be_v the_o knight_n discourse_n which_o upon_o examination_n will_v prove_v as_o foolish_a as_o he_o think_v it_o witty_a i_o answer_v therefore_o that_o though_o catholic_n hold_v for_o most_o certain_a that_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o the_o sole_a rule_n of_o faith_n nor_o that_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o all_o controversy_n can_v be_v decide_v as_o for_o example_n that_o in_o particular_a which_o book_n be_v canonical_a scripture_n which_o not_o yet_o for_o most_o thing_n now_o a_o day_n in_o controversy_n many_o catholic_n have_v offer_v to_o try_v the_o matter_n by_o only_a scripture_n some_o have_v also_o write_v book_n of_o good_a volume_n faith_n anchor_n of_o faith_n to_o show_v the_o scripture_n in_o the_o plain_a and_o obvious_a sense_n to_o make_v positive_o for_o we_o &_o our_o doctrine_n in_o most_o point_n &_o against_o we_o in_o none_o whereof_o a_o man_n may_v also_o have_v a_o brief_a taste_n in_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o censure_n in_o the_o praeface_n in_o these_o point_n follow_v of_o supremacy_n real_a presence_n justification_n absolution_n vow_n tradition_n observance_n of_o the_o commandment_n satisfaction_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a prayer_n to_o saint_n etc._n etc._n in_o which_o respect_n therefore_o i_o may_v ask_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n how_o you_o come_v to_o be_v so_o sure_a that_o we_o will_v not_o come_v to_o the_o trial_n of_o scripture_n for_o though_o we_o ground_n many_o point_n upon_o tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n yet_o do_v not_o we_o ground_n other_o upon_o plain_a and_o express_v authority_n of_o scripture_n from_o which_o you_o be_v fain_o to_o fly_v run_v into_o this_o or_o that_o corner_n of_o i_o know_v not_o what_o figurative_a or_o tropical_a interpretation_n or_o even_o deny_v the_o very_a book_n of_o scripture_n nay_o what_o point_n be_v there_o that_o we_o do_v not_o bring_v better_a proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n for_o it_o which_o yet_o we_o need_v not_o than_o you_o can_v bring_v against_o it_o which_o yet_o be_v absolute_o needful_a on_o your_o part_n you_o stand_v so_o upon_o scripture_n as_o you_o do_v 2._o as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n &_o his_o apostle_n at_o his_o assize_n for_o obscurity_n and_o insufficiency_n this_o be_v a_o speech_n utter_v i_o suppose_v by_o you_o only_o in_o the_o fervour_n of_o a_o haereticall_a spirit_n wherein_o therefore_o a_o man_n be_v not_o to_o look_v for_o much_o truth_n but_o yet_o i_o may_v ask_v wherein_o i_o pray_v you_o do_v the_o pope_n question_n or_o condemn_v christ_n of_o obscurity_n &_o insufficiency_n what_o have_v christ_n leave_v write_v to_o be_v question_v or_o condemn_v his_o apostle_n &_o evangelist_n indeed_o have_v leave_v some_o thing_n in_o writing_n of_o which_o some_o be_v hard_a even_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o scripture_n itself_o 3.16_o 2._o pet._n 3.16_o for_o so_o say_v s._n peter_n of_o the_o epistle_n of_o s._n paul_n which_o say_v he_o the_o unlearned_a and_o inconstant_a do_v abuse_v as_o they_o do_v other_o scripture_n to_o their_o own_o perdition_n 14._o aug._n conf._n lib._n 12._o c._n 14._o and_o s._n augustine_n find_v so_o much_o difficulty_n in_o the_o first_o verse_n of_o the_o whole_a scripture_n which_o to_o a_o man_n seem_v be_v as_o easy_a as_o any_o other_o verse_n what_o soever_o that_o he_o be_v fain_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o wonderful_a profoundness_n thereof_o it_o be_v s._n peter_n and_o s._n aug._n therefore_o that_o call_v to_o their_o assize_n if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o so_o and_o there_o arraign_v and_o condemn_v s._n paul_n &_o moses_n of_o obscurity_n not_o the_o pope_n &_o so_o for_o insufficiency_n if_o any_o body_n condemn_v it_o it_o be_v s._n john_n in_o say_v that_o 2.14_o 2._o thess_n 2.14_o all_o thing_n be_v not_o write_v &_o s._n paul_n in_o willing_a the_o thessalonians_n to_o hold_v the_o tradition_n which_o they_o have_v learn_v whither_o by_o speech_n or_o letter_n by_o word_n of_o mouth_n or_o writing_n they_o be_v the_o apostle_n &_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n that_o acknowledge_v that_o hardness_n of_o scripture_n or_o what_o soever_o it_o be_v which_o your_o worship_n be_v please_v to_o call_v insufficiency_n what_o impertinent_a flaunt_n be_v this_o then_o in_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o tell_v we_o the_o pope_n question_v christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n to_o talk_v thus_o of_o assize_n and_o arraign_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v we_o know_v you_o be_v the_o son_n of_o a_o grand-iuror_n who_o it_o be_v pity_n you_o do_v not_o succeed_v in_o the_o place_n since_o you_o have_v the_o term_n so_o ready_a in_o your_o mouth_n 3._o but_o to_o let_v that_o pass_n i_o likewise_o answer_v you_o for_o our_o rank_v the_o bible_n in_o the_o first_o place_n of_o prohibit_v book_n as_o you_o say_v we_o do_v that_o it_o be_v false_a and_o false_a again_o for_o it_o be_v not_o in_o the_o catalogue_n of_o such_o book_n only_o in_o the_o rule_n which_o concern_v the_o index_n there_o be_v mention_v how_o the_o free_a use_n of_o vulgar_a translation_n be_v not_o to_o be_v permit_v 4._o reg._n 4._o but_o for_o the_o latin_a vulgar_a translation_n there_o be_v no_o manner_n
to_o name_v that_o father_n or_o catholic_a doctor_n to_o who_o judgement_n we_o will_v not_o stand_v for_o trial_n of_o the_o controversy_n between_o you_o and_o we_o and_o if_o he_o be_v for_o you_o in_o one_o i_o will_v undertake_v he_o shall_v be_v against_o you_o in_o 5._o or_o 10._o other_o for_o that_o one_o with_o what_o face_n then_o can_v you_o say_v we_o decline_v they_o but_o because_o i_o imagine_v you_o reflect_v most_o in_o this_o say_n upon_o this_o worthy_a work_n of_o your_o own_o i_o leave_v it_o to_o the_o consideration_n of_o the_o indifferent_a reader_n whether_o i_o have_v so_o decline_v one_o author_n either_o modern_a or_o ancient_a or_o whether_o i_o have_v not_o show_v every_o one_o which_o you_o have_v bring_v to_o be_v quite_o against_o you_o now_o for_o the_o scripture_n because_o you_o say_v we_o decline_v it_o as_o unperfect_a i_o challenge_v you_o to_o name_v the_o man_n that_o say_v it_o be_v unperfect_a &_o for_o that_o reason_n decline_v it_o you_o father_v indeed_o that_o term_n upon_o lessius_fw-la but_o i_o show_v it_o to_o be_v most_o false_a for_o that_o he_o have_v not_o the_o word_n at_o all_o in_o that_o chapter_n much_o less_o do_v he_o say_v it_o of_o scripture_n and_o less_o again_o do_v he_o decline_v the_o trial_n thereof_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o imperfection_n but_o only_o in_o regard_n that_o it_o be_v a_o write_a word_n no_o haeretique_n can_v be_v convince_v by_o it_o as_o i_o show_v also_o even_o now_o out_o of_o tertullian_n who_o say_v it_o be_v but_o lose_a labour_n to_o dispute_v with_o a_o haeretique_n out_o of_o scripture_n but_o because_o i_o see_v your_o drift_n in_o the_o often_o repetition_n of_o the_o word_n imperfect_a be_v only_o to_o beget_v in_o man_n mind_n a_o hard_a conceit_n of_o we_o â—_o de_fw-fr prâ—â—_n cap._n â—_o as_o if_o we_o make_v small_a account_n of_o scripture_n i_o will_v know_v of_o you_o who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v preserve_v the_o scripture_n with_o such_o care_n for_o so_o many_o age_n who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v translate_v commentend_v and_o expound_v they_o who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v make_v so_o many_o decree_n in_o particular_a and_o general_a counsel_n for_o the_o preservation_n authority_n reverence_n and_o due_a use_n of_o they_o who_o they_o be_v that_o have_v fill_v library_n with_o learned_a work_n not_o only_o expound_v the_o particular_a passage_n but_o frequent_o and_o large_o declare_v their_o necessity_n dignity_n utility_n and_o other_o perfection_n â—p_n veu_n b._n 2_o â—p_n sr._n â—p_n let_v any_o man_n by_o these_o effect_n judge_v who_o reverence_v they_o most_o catholic_n or_o protestant_n let_v he_o compare_v the_o labour_n of_o the_o one_o with_o the_o labour_n of_o the_o other_o and_o then_o he_o shall_v soon_o find_v the_o truth_n of_o this_o matter_n 8._o but_o because_o you_o still_o talk_v of_o our_o decline_a of_o scripture_n beside_o that_o it_o be_v false_a as_o i_o say_v before_o for_o we_o be_v content_a to_o admit_v any_o kind_n of_o trial_n with_o you_o to_o take_v that_o alsoe_o out_o of_o your_o mouth_n i_o answer_v you_o far_o that_o in_o this_o we_o condescend_v more_o unto_o your_o infirmity_n be_v willing_a to_o try_v all_o way_n to_o gain_v you_o than_o we_o need_v or_o you_o can_v of_o right_a challenge_n for_o we_o acknowledge_v that_o say_n of_o tertullian_n most_o true_a whereby_o he_o as_o it_o be_v stop_v this_o gap_n against_o you_o hunc_fw-la igitur_fw-la potissimum_fw-la gradum_fw-la obstruimus_fw-la non_fw-la admittendos_fw-la eos_fw-la ad_fw-la ullam_fw-la de_fw-la scripture_n disputationem_fw-la sihae_fw-la sunt_fw-la vires_fw-la eorum_fw-la arm_n eas_fw-la habere_fw-la possint_fw-la dispici_fw-la debet_fw-la cvi_fw-la competat_fw-la possessio_fw-la scripturarum_fw-la ne_fw-la be_v admittatur_fw-la ad_fw-la eas_fw-la cvi_fw-la nullo_n modo_fw-la competit_fw-la we_o stop_n up_o this_o entrance_n chief_o that_o they_o that_o be_v haeretique_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o disputation_n of_o scripture_n if_o in_o these_o their_o force_n consist_v we_o must_v see_v whether_o they_o may_v have_v they_o to_o who_o the_o possession_n belong_v lest_o he_o be_v admit_v thereunto_o to_o who_o it_o in_o no_o wise_n belong_v as_o also_o that_o other_o place_n wherein_o conformable_o to_o the_o question_n which_o here_o he_o make_v this_o be_v a_o important_a point_n he_o define_v 37._o de_fw-fr praesc_fw-la cap._n 15._o &_o 37._o non_fw-la esse_fw-la admittendos_fw-la haereticos_fw-la ad_fw-la incundam_fw-la de_fw-la scripture_n provocationem_fw-la quos_fw-la sine_fw-la scripture_n probamus_fw-la ad_fw-la scripturas_fw-la non_fw-la pertinere_fw-la that_o haeretique_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o challenge_n of_o scripture_n who_o without_o scripture_n we_o prove_v not_o to_o pertain_v to_o scripture_n that_o be_v not_o to_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o do_v with_o they_o for_o say_v he_o if_o they_o be_v haeretique_n they_o can_v be_v christian_n and_o not_o be_v christian_n they_o can_v have_v no_o right_a to_o christian_a writing_n wherefore_o sir_n humphrey_n while_o you_o stand_v brag_v of_o scripture_n and_o chaleng_v we_o we_o may_v say_v unto_o you_o as_o the_o same_o tertullian_n say_v consequent_o in_o the_o same_o place_n qui_fw-la estis_fw-la quando_fw-la &_o unde_fw-la venistis_fw-la quid_fw-la in_o meo_fw-la agitis_fw-la non_fw-la mei_fw-la quo_fw-la denique_fw-la martion_n jure_fw-la siluam_fw-la meam_fw-la caedis_fw-la etc._n etc._n who_o be_v you_o when_o and_o whence_o have_v you_o come_v what_o do_v you_o in_o my_o ground_n you_o that_o be_v not_o i_o by_o what_o right_a o_o martion_n do_v thou_o fall_v my_o wood_n by_o what_o leave_n o_o valentine_n do_v thou_o turn_v my_o fountain_n by_o what_o authority_n o_o apelles_n do_v thou_o remove_v my_o bound_n it_o be_v my_o possession_n what_o do_v you_o other_o here_o sow_v and_o feed_v at_o your_o pleasure_n it_o be_v my_o possession_n i_o possess_v it_o of_o old_a i_o possess_v it_o first_o i_o have_v the_o original_n from_o the_o owner_n who_o the_o thing_n be_v i_o be_o the_o heir_n of_o the_o apostle_n as_o they_o have_v bequeath_v unto_o i_o by_o will_n as_o they_o have_v commit_v to_o my_o custody_n as_o they_o have_v adiur_v i_o so_o i_o hold_v for_o you_o true_o they_o have_v ever_o disinherited_a you_o and_o cast_v you_o of_o as_o stranger_n and_o enemy_n this_o be_v tertullian_n discourse_n and_o word_n wherein_o it_o be_v but_o change_v the_o name_n martion_n valentine_n and_o apelles_n into_o luther_n caluin_n beza_n or_o if_o you_o will_v into_o sir_n hum._n line_v and_o it_o will_v fit_a as_o well_o as_o if_o it_o be_v make_v for_o you_o or_o speak_v in_o answer_n of_o what_o you_o say_v here_o that_o if_o you_o bring_v scripture_n we_o decline_v it_o for_o hereby_o you_o may_v see_v how_o much_o you_o be_v mistake_v we_o do_v not_o decline_v it_o but_o we_o decline_v you_o from_o it_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v none_o of_o you_o you_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o it_o the_o scripture_n be_v commit_v to_o the_o church_n by_o the_o apostle_n to_o be_v keep_v they_o be_v the_o church_n evidence_n therefore_o no_o man_n out_o of_o the_o church_n as_o you_o be_v have_v to_o do_v with_o they_o as_o tertullian_n tell_v you_o here_o 6._o ep_v dedic_fw-la n._n 6._o and_o as_o i_o tell_v you_o in_o my_o dedicatory_a epistle_n out_o of_o another_o place_n of_o he_o that_o we_o must_v first_o seek_v out_o where_o that_o faith_n be_v to_o which_o the_o scripture_n belong_v where_o the_o man_n to_o who_o christian_n discipline_n be_v deliver_v you_o must_v first_o show_v yourselves_o to_o be_v these_o man_n to_o have_v this_o faith_n before_o we_o can_v admit_v you_o to_o the_o scripture_n you_o must_v first_o show_v yourselves_o owner_n of_o the_o land_n before_o you_o can_v claim_v the_o writing_n and_o evidence_n which_o belong_v unto_o it_o and_o which_o make_v good_a the_o title_n therefore_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o can_v less_o admire_v your_o impudence_n in_o this_o which_o you_o say_v of_o scripture_n then_o in_o any_o thing_n else_o which_o in_o all_o this_o lindy_n treatise_n you_o have_v say_v though_o indeed_o as_o you_o go_v draw_v towards_o a_o end_n you_o show_v you_o self_n still_o more_o like_o yourself_o in_o this_o kind_n as_o shall_v appear_v by_o the_o follow_a section_n 15._o chap._n 15._o of_o the_o 15._o sect._n the_o title_n be_v this_o our_o chief_a adversary_n cardinal_n bellarmine_n testify_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o doctrine_n in_o the_o principal_a point_n of_o controversy_n betwixt_o us._n chapter_n xv._o 1._o in_o this_o section_n your_o drift_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o truth_n of_o your_o doctrine_n out_o of_o bellar._n who_o you_o say_v be_v enforce_v to_o confess_v the_o antiquity_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o doctrine_n and_o plain_o to_o acknowledge_v the_o
own_o author_n and_o why_o may_v not_o he_o do_v the_o like_a to_o we_o for_o the_o reason_n be_v clean_o different_a they_o have_v no_o public_a authority_n which_o can_v define_v what_o be_v faith_n and_o what_o not_o but_o that_o be_v leave_v not_o only_o to_o every_o private_a doctor_n or_o minister_n but_o to_o every_o private_a lay_v man_n and_o woman_n and_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o it_o be_v no_o convince_a proof_n to_o urge_v one_o particular_a protestant_a doctor_n be_v authority_n against_o another_o there_o be_v not_o two_o among_o they_o of_o one_o opinion_n whole_o much_o less_o one_o bind_v to_o answer_n for_o the_o other_o yet_o we_o be_v fain_o and_o may_v with_o good_a reason_n use_v it_o because_o they_o have_v no_o certain_a rule_n of_o faith_n wherewith_o we_o may_v urge_v they_o authority_n of_o church_n they_o have_v none_o scripture_n they_o have_v indeed_o but_o so_o mangle_v corrupt_a pervert_v by_o translation_n and_o misinterpret_v according_a to_o their_o own_o fancy_n that_o as_o they_o have_v it_o it_o be_v as_o good_a as_o nothing_o tradition_n they_o have_v none_o counsel_n they_o have_v not_o any_o among_o themselves_o nor_o will_v stand_v to_o we_o consent_v of_o father_n or_o schoolman_n they_o care_v not_o for_o consent_v of_o doctor_n they_o have_v not_o among_o themselves_o nor_o can_v have_v without_o a_o head_n neither_o if_o they_o have_v will_v any_o man_n think_v himself_o more_o bind_v by_o that_o then_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n what_o then_o be_v leave_v but_o to_o urge_v they_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o such_o as_o they_o acknowledge_v for_o their_o brethren_n but_o with_o we_o the_o case_n be_v far_o different_a for_o we_o have_v diverse_a infallible_a rule_n of_o faith_n though_o all_o with_o some_o reference_n to_o one_o principal_a rule_n as_o scripture_n in_o the_o plain_a and_o literal_a sense_n which_o be_v out_o of_o controversy_n tradition_n or_o common_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n counsel_n either_o general_a or_o particular_a confirm_v by_o the_o see_v apostolic_a the_o authority_n of_o that_o holy_a see_v itself_o define_v ex_fw-la cathedra_fw-la though_o without_o either_o general_a or_o particular_a council_n the_o common_a and_o uniform_a consent_n of_o ancient_a father_n or_o modern_a doctor_n and_o schoolman_n deliver_v any_o thing_n unto_o we_o as_o matter_n of_o faith_n 15._o all_o these_o six_o rule_n of_o faith_n we_o acknowledge_v wherewith_o let_v this_o knight_n or_o any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n urge_v we_o we_o flinch_v not_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v the_o authority_n but_o be_v ready_a to_o make_v good_a whatsoever_o be_v teach_v any_o of_o these_o way_n what_o folly_n then_o be_v it_o for_o a_o man_n to_o stand_v urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o private_a man_n who_o may_v straggle_v out_o from_o the_o rest_n though_o to_o go_v far_o than_o we_o need_v in_o such_o great_a liberty_n as_o we_o give_v protestant_n we_o give_v they_o leave_v to_o urge_v we_o with_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o one_o single_a doctor_n in_o a_o point_n wherein_o he_o be_v not_o contradict_v by_o other_o catholic_a doctor_n or_o which_o other_o catholic_n do_v not_o whole_o disavow_v what_o more_o can_v a_o man_n desire_n and_o yet_o again_o though_o the_o knight_n or_o any_o other_o protestant_n shall_v bring_v such_o a_o single_a author_n for_o his_o opinion_n yet_o be_v there_o such_o a_o main_a difference_n between_o he_o and_o they_o that_o no_o protestant_n can_v just_o plead_v that_o single_a catholic_a author_n to_o be_v whole_o of_o his_o opinion_n or_o belief_n in_o that_o point_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o other_o wherein_o they_o differ_v for_o the_o protestant_n hold_v his_o doctrine_n stiff_o not_o mean_v in_o any_o case_n or_o for_o any_o authority_n to_o change_v or_o leave_v it_o which_o be_v it_o that_o that_o make_v a_o man_n proper_o a_o haeretique_n whereas_o the_o catholic_a ever_o hold_v it_o with_o indifferency_n ready_a to_o leave_v it_o whensoever_o the_o catholic_a church_n shall_v determine_v otherwise_o which_o if_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v be_v but_o content_a to_o do_v we_o will_v bear_v with_o all_o his_o error_n because_o than_o they_o will_v be_v soon_o amend_v what_o little_a help_n than_o be_v he_o like_v to_o have_v from_o catholic_a author_n or_o what_o likelihood_n be_v there_o for_o he_o to_o make_v good_a his_o paradox_n or_o rather_o his_o most_o absurd_a heresy_n out_o of_o our_o own_o cardinal_n bishop_n doctor_n schoolman_n etc._n etc._n who_o he_o put_v all_o in_o the_o plural_a number_n as_o if_o the_o number_n be_v to_o be_v very_o great_a whereas_o god_n know_v they_o come_v very_o poor_a and_o single_a as_o shall_v appear_v and_o some_o be_v cardinal_n of_o his_o own_o create_v only_o as_o i_o shall_v after_o show_v but_o this_o he_o do_v for_o credit_n of_o his_o cause_n though_o it_o be_v with_o loss_n of_o his_o own_o 16._o and_o all_o this_o which_o here_o i_o say_v be_v to_o be_v understand_v suppose_v that_o indeed_o he_o cite_v catholic_a author_n and_o cite_v they_o true_o as_o here_o he_o promise_v which_o promise_v for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v true_a cite_n how_o he_o perform_v i_o shall_v afterward_o make_v manifest_a here_o only_o i_o shall_v add_v a_o word_n concern_v his_o author_n who_o he_o promise_v we_o shall_v be_v catholic_n whereas_o indeed_o for_o the_o most_o part_n they_o be_v either_o know_v haeretique_n or_o some_o such_o man_n as_o though_o with_o much_o ado_n they_o may_v pass_v for_o catholic_n as_o erasmus_n cornelius_n agrippa_n cassander_n and_o the_o like_a yet_o they_o give_v themselves_o so_o much_o liberty_n in_o they_o writing_n as_o they_o come_v to_o be_v note_v for_o it_o and_o their_o work_n forbid_v of_o which_o i_o will_v not_o therefore_o make_v any_o account_n as_o no_o other_o catholic_n do_v but_o when_o i_o come_v to_o such_o authoritye_n as_o there_o be_v many_o in_o this_o book_n i_o mean_v to_o make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o the_o author_n be_v condemn_v or_o book_n forbid_v in_o the_o index_n librorum_fw-la prohibitorum_fw-la the_o table_n of_o forbid_a book_n wherein_o i_o can_v but_o note_v sir_n humphrey_n ill_a favour_v and_o dishonest_a deal_n in_o pretend_v to_o cite_v only_o our_o own_o doctor_n and_o schoolman_n and_o yet_o afterward_o obtrude_a such_o as_o he_o know_v to_o be_v subject_a to_o so_o main_n exception_n and_o so_o to_o be_v by_o we_o disavow_v and_o reject_v as_o incompetent_a judge_n or_o witness_n 17._o but_o there_o be_v no_o other_o to_o be_v expect_v at_o such_o a_o man_n hand_n and_o therefore_o i_o will_v neither_o look_v for_o better_a nor_o say_v more_o of_o it_o but_o by_o this_o occasion_n add_v a_o word_n or_o two_o concern_v the_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la which_o so_o much_o trouble_v the_o conscience_n of_o these_o man_n which_o be_v right_o understand_v no_o man_n of_o reason_n and_o judgement_n can_v be_v offend_v with_o it_o for_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o continuance_n of_o the_o same_o care_n which_o have_v be_v ever_o observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n for_o preserve_v of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n and_o integrity_n of_o life_n from_o the_o corruption_n of_o haeretique_n and_o other_o wicked_a man_n who_o by_o book_n bring_v great_a prejudice_n both_o to_o faith_n and_o manner_n unless_o special_a care_n be_v use_v for_o praevent_v thereof_o of_o the_o necessity_n and_o justness_n of_o which_o course_n there_o be_v whole_a book_n write_v by_o diverse_a learned_a catholic_a doctor_n neither_o can_v any_o body_n dislike_v thereof_o but_o only_a haeretique_n who_o indeed_o find_v themselves_o mighty_o aggreive_v therewith_o as_o be_v by_o this_o course_n deprive_v of_o a_o chief_a mean_n of_o spread_v their_o wicked_a doctrine_n by_o book_n though_o indeed_o they_o have_v no_o more_o cause_n to_o complain_v then_o necromancer_n judiciary_n astrologer_n soothsayer_n witch_n magician_n and_o even_o bad_a catholic_n who_o publish_v naughty_a and_o lascivious_a book_n for_o this_o care_n of_o the_o church_n do_v extend_v to_o all_o whatsoever_o may_v be_v offensive_a or_o hurtful_a either_o to_o faith_n or_o good_a manner_n 18._o but_o because_o sir_n humphrey_n will_v needs_o have_v it_o that_o the_o bible_n be_v also_o forbid_a and_o the_o father_n writing_n appoint_v to_o be_v correct_v and_o raze_v i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o bible_n indeed_o it_o be_v not_o permit_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n to_o every_o body_n without_o any_o regard_n or_o distinction_n of_o person_n as_o it_o never_o be_v nor_o aught_o to_o be_v as_o be_v well_o prove_v by_o authority_n of_o father_n and_o reason_n in_o the_o preface_n of_o the_o rheims_n testament_n but_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o forbid_v but_o that_o it_o
gentile_n do_v do_v not_o this_o answer_n you_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v you_o not_o here_o find_v a_o difference_n between_o that_o worship_n and_o we_o between_o idolatry_n and_o religion_n between_o their_o adore_v the_o creature_n of_o wood_n and_o colour_n in_o place_n of_o the_o creator_n and_o our_o adore_v the_o creator_n represent_v by_o the_o creature_n between_o their_o adoration_n of_o idolatrous_a damn_a philosopher_n and_o our_o worship_n of_o the_o bless_a saint_n and_o servant_n of_o god_n live_v with_o he_o in_o glory_n this_o be_v too_o too_o gross_a for_o such_o a_o subtle_a knight_n as_o you_o be_v now_o for_o proof_n of_o your_o doctrine_n by_o succession_n from_o the_o 2._o commandment_n it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o call_v it_o succession_n though_o you_o take_v the_o place_n of_o scripture_n in_o the_o true_a sense_n as_o you_o do_v not_o for_o how_o do_v your_o doctrine_n succeed_v the_o commandment_n a_o man_n may_v prove_v his_o doctrine_n out_o of_o scripture_n but_o not_o derive_v the_o succession_n thereof_o out_o of_o that_o proof_n for_o this_o commandment_n it_o be_v neither_o the_o second_o but_o a_o explication_n of_o the_o first_o nor_o be_v it_o true_o translate_v for_o there_o be_v not_o the_o word_n image_n in_o that_o place_n of_o scripture_n 9_o a_o five_o point_n be_v communion_n in_o one_o kind_n which_o he_o say_v we_o have_v from_o the_o manichee_n and_o from_o the_o nazarite_n who_o it_o be_v not_o like_a as_o bellarmine_n say_v do_v drink_v of_o the_o chalice_n against_o their_o vow_n nor_o yet_o like_a that_o they_o do_v whole_o abstain_v from_o the_o communion_n out_o of_o which_o he_o gather_v that_o they_o do_v communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n only_o and_o here_o say_v the_o knight_n be_v their_o best_a succession_n from_o haeretique_n and_o a_o uncertain_a example_n of_o the_o nazarite_n whereas_o his_o doctrine_n he_o say_v be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o this_o be_v the_o knight_n discourse_n but_o to_o answer_v he_o i_o say_v that_o before_o ever_o there_o be_v manichee_n in_o the_o world_n the_o b._n sacrament_n be_v administer_v sometime_o in_o one_o kind_n sometime_o in_o both_o the_o manichee_n abstain_v indeed_o from_o receive_v the_o chalice_n out_o of_o one_o haeretical_a principle_n as_o now_o our_o haeretique_n stand_v to_o have_v it_o for_o another_o like_a principle_n against_o which_o as_o in_o that_o time_n the_o church_n forbid_v the_o use_n of_o one_o kind_n so_o now_o it_o forbid_v the_o use_n of_o both_o kind_n and_o may_v again_o give_v way_n when_o it_o shall_v seem_v convenient_a for_o the_o use_n of_o both_o kind_n the_o doctrine_n ever_o remain_v the_o same_o as_o upon_o another_o occasion_n i_o say_v before_o for_o that_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o from_o whence_o the_o knight_n draw_v the_o succession_n of_o his_o doctrine_n it_o be_v speak_v only_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o in_o they_o to_o priest_n not_o to_o the_o laity_n of_o which_o i_o shall_v have_v occasion_n to_o speak_v again_o afterward_o 10._o but_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o matter_n the_o knight_n draw_v our_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n from_o the_o angelici_fw-la our_o work_n of_o supererogation_n from_o the_o cathari_n our_o worship_n of_o the_o b._n virgin_n from_o the_o collyridian_n our_o forbid_v priest_n to_o marry_v from_o tatianus_n and_o the_o manichee_n who_o he_o say_v forbid_v it_o in_o their_o priest_n put_v down_o the_o latin_a word_n in_o sacerdotibus_fw-la as_o if_o those_o special_a word_n be_v in_o s._n epiphanius_n who_o he_o cit_v but_o this_o serve_v for_o nothing_o chron_n v._o gual_n chron_n but_o to_o show_v the_o man_n shamelessness_n more_o and_o more_o for_o the_o angelici_fw-la they_o be_v heretic_n swerve_v from_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n by_o excess_n that_o be_v honour_v angel_n more_o than_o their_o dew_n or_o more_o than_o creature_n as_o heretic_n of_o these_o time_n do_v by_o defect_n that_o be_v not_o honour_v they_o so_o much_o as_o be_v dew_n nor_o as_o creature_n special_o honour_v &_o employ_v by_o god_n for_o the_o good_a of_o mankind_n the_o cathari_n or_o puritan_n as_o he_o interprete_v the_o word_n himself_o a_o man_n will_v think_v shall_v belong_v more_o to_o he_o that_o be_v either_o a_o puritan_n or_o a_o brother_n or_o at_o least_o a_o reformer_n then_o to_o we_o catholic_n but_o the_o cathari_n be_v noâ—atians_n who_o out_o of_o pride_n and_o self_n conceit_n as_o if_o they_o be_v more_o clean_a and_o holy_a do_v condemn_v catholic_n for_o admit_v man_n to_o penance_n though_o they_o sin_v never_o so_o often_o &_o so_o grievous_o whereas_o they_o saint_n forsooth_o if_o a_o man_n do_v for_o fear_n deny_v his_o faith_n they_o will_v have_v nothing_o to_o do_v with_o he_o any_o more_o now_o what_o be_v in_o this_o like_o our_o work_n of_o supererogation_n that_o be_v work_n which_o a_o man_n be_v not_o bind_v unto_o the_o collyridian_n exceed_v the_o measure_n of_o honour_n dew_n to_o our_o b._n lady_n for_o they_o do_v offer_v sacrifice_n unto_o she_o as_o the_o antidico_n marianitae_n do_v err_v contrary_o deny_v her_o due_a honour_n who_o the_o knight_n do_v forbear_v to_o name_n lest_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o name_v his_o own_o sect_n now_o catholic_n go_v in_o the_o middle_n they_o do_v not_o offer_v sacrifice_n unto_o she_o that_o honour_n be_v dew_n to_o god_n alone_o but_o they_o give_v she_o all_o the_o honour_n that_o can_v belong_v to_o a_o pure_a creature_n tatianus_n and_o the_o manichee_n disallow_v all_o marriage_n but_o that_o they_o do_v disallow_v it_o special_o in_o priest_n i_o do_v not_o find_v in_o epiphanius_n as_o the_o knight_n will_v make_v man_n believe_v by_o put_v the_o word_n in_o sacerdotibus_fw-la in_o latin_a and_o in_o a_o distinct_a letter_n though_o indeed_o it_o be_v less_o allowable_a in_o priest_n then_o in_o other_o man_n 11._o it_o be_v then_o so_o that_o of_o these_o heresy_n which_o here_o the_o knight_n reckon_v &_o whereof_o he_o will_v make_v we_o guilty_a there_o be_v not_o one_o of_o they_o that_o any_o way_n concern_v we_o but_o rather_o as_o a_o man_n may_v easy_o prove_v that_o he_o &_o his_o church_n be_v guilty_a of_o almost_o all_o of_o they_o how_o vain_o and_o fond_o do_v he_o conclude_v this_o section_n by_o say_v these_o and_o the_o like_a error_n teach_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v either_o lineal_o descend_v from_o the_o aforesaid_a haeretique_n or_o at_o least_o have_v near_o affinity_n with_o they_o how_o vain_a i_o say_v and_o fond_a be_v this_o say_n of_o he_o how_o near_o they_o come_v any_o man_n may_v judge_v by_o what_o i_o have_v here_o say_v as_o also_o of_o the_o linealnes_n of_o the_o descent_n of_o our_o doctrine_n from_o former_a haeretique_n or_o of_o his_o from_o the_o apostle_n for_o whereas_o the_o line_n shall_v be_v draw_v along_o by_o a_o continue_a succession_n from_o the_o begin_n to_o the_o end_n he_o name_v sometime_o one_o only_a man_n or_o time_n for_o the_o whole_a 1500._o year_n sometime_o not_o so_o much_o as_o one_o man_n but_o only_o a_o bare_a place_n of_o scripture_n corrupt_v or_o misinterpret_v which_o what_o succession_n it_o may_v make_v let_v any_o indifferent_a man_n be_v judge_v wherein_o it_o seem_v the_o very_a guiltiness_n of_o his_o own_o conscience_n do_v make_v he_o misdoubt_v a_o little_a that_o he_o have_v not_o sufficient_o perform_v his_o promise_n as_o may_v be_v gather_v out_o of_o these_o word_n of_o he_o if_o i_o have_v fail_v in_o calculate_v the_o right_a nativity_n of_o their_o ancient_a doctrine_n etc._n etc._n but_o for_o all_o that_o he_o say_v he_o be_v sure_a that_o we_o be_v utter_o destitute_a of_o a_o right_a succession_n in_o person_n and_o doctrine_n from_o the_o apostle_n and_o ancient_a father_n as_o he_o say_v shall_v appear_v by_o many_o testimony_n of_o the_o best_a learned_a among_o us._n but_o the_o knight_n have_v so_o ill_o perform_v his_o promise_n past_a that_o he_o can_v look_v any_o man_n shall_v give_v he_o credit_v for_o those_o that_o be_v to_o come_v and_o for_o that_o which_o he_o be_v sure_a of_o that_o we_o have_v no_o succession_n in_o person_n and_o doctrine_n that_o be_v so_o false_a and_o so_o apparent_o false_a as_o that_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v but_o he_o that_o shall_v aver_v it_o will_v make_v no_o scruple_n of_o any_o lie_n how_o loud_o soever_o for_o do_v not_o our_o catalogue_n of_o pope_n sell_v and_o print_v in_o london_n testify_v the_o contrary_a for_o succession_n in_o person_n what_o clear_a testimony_n can_v there_o be_v in_o the_o world_n of_o personal_a succession_n then_o to_o have_v two_o hundred_o and_o odd_a
gospel_n be_v rather_o to_o be_v have_v by_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_v of_o the_o church_n than_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n and_o prove_v it_o by_o this_o that_o if_o we_o lie_v aside_o the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o use_n of_o the_o church_n no_o man_n can_v be_v able_a to_o prove_v that_o any_o priest_n now_o in_o these_o time_n do_v consecrate_v the_o true_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o same_o that_o he_o say_v after_o in_o other_o word_n in_o nostra_fw-la missa_fw-la in_o our_o mass_n that_o be_v mass_n in_o these_o time_n not_o say_v he_o that_o this_o matter_n be_v now_o doubtful_a but_o that_o the_o certainty_n thereof_o be_v have_v not_o so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o the_o gospel_n as_o of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n and_o use_n of_o so_o long_a time_n which_o they_o have_v leave_v to_o posterity_n for_o say_v he_o again_o though_o christ_n of_o bread_n make_v his_o body_n and_o of_o wine_n his_o blood_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v by_o force_n of_o any_o word_n there_o set_v down_o that_o we_o as_o often_o as_o we_o shall_v attempt_v any_o such_o thing_n shall_v do_v it_o which_o unless_o it_o be_v so_o say_v we_o can_v he_o certain_v thereof_o these_o be_v his_o very_a word_n where_o you_o see_v how_o together_o he_o deliver_v two_o point_n of_o catholic_a doctrine_n the_o one_o of_o the_o real_a presence_n the_o other_o of_o tradition_n for_o understanding_n of_o the_o scripture_n neither_o do_v he_o say_v that_o the_o real_a presence_n in_o our_o mass_n now_o a_o day_n be_v not_o prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n but_o not_o out_o of_o it_o alone_o without_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o father_n which_o we_o acknowledge_v general_o necessary_a in_o the_o exposition_n of_o scripture_n neither_o do_v you_o therefore_o right_o argue_v the_o real_a presence_n be_v not_o prove_v so_o much_o out_o of_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o scripture_n as_o out_o of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o father_n and_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la not_o out_o of_o scripture_n this_o i_o say_v be_v a_o idle_a argument_n for_o the_o father_n interpretation_n &_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n do_v but_o deliver_v we_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n 17._o what_o then_o have_v you_o here_o out_o of_o bishop_n fisher_n to_o prove_v any_o of_o your_o 4._o point_n not_o one_o word_n for_o if_o his_o word_n do_v prove_v any_o thing_n they_o shall_v prove_v against_o the_o real_a presence_n not_o against_o transubstantiation_n which_o be_v your_o controversy_n and_o for_o those_o other_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o this_o same_o holy_a bishop_n and_o martyr_n for_o a_o conclusion_n thus_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la igitur_fw-la per_fw-la ullam_fw-la scripturam_fw-la probari_fw-la it_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n they_o discover_v your_o dishonesty_n most_o of_o all_o for_o by_o break_v of_o the_o sentence_n there_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n believe_v they_o have_v relation_n to_o the_o word_n next_o before_o by_o you_o cite_v as_o if_o the_o bishop_n do_v say_v that_o it_o can_v not_o be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n that_o christ_n be_v real_o present_a in_o our_o mass_n whereas_o there_o be_v a_o whole_a leaf_n between_o these_o two_o place_n but_o the_o only_a bare_a recital_n of_o the_o bishop_n word_n shall_v serve_v for_o a_o confutation_n which_o be_v these_o non_fw-la potest_fw-la igitur_fw-la per_fw-la ullam_fw-la scripturan_n probari_fw-la quod_fw-la aut_fw-la laicus_fw-la aut_fw-la sacerdos_n quoties_fw-la id_fw-la negotij_fw-la tentaverit_fw-la pari_fw-la modo_fw-la conficiet_fw-la ex_fw-la pane_fw-la vinoque_fw-la christi_fw-la corpus_fw-la &_o sanguinem_fw-la atque_fw-la christus_fw-la ipse_fw-la confecit_fw-la quum_fw-la necâ—stud_fw-la in_o scripture_n contineatur_fw-la it_o can_v therefore_o be_v prove_v by_o any_o scripture_n that_o either_o lay_v man_n or_o priest_n as_o often_o as_o he_o shall_v go_v about_o that_o business_n shall_v in_o like_a manner_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n make_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n as_o christ_n himself_o do_v see_v that_o neither_o that_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n by_o which_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o his_o drift_n be_v only_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o express_a word_n in_o scripture_n whereby_o it_o be_v promise_v that_o either_o priest_n or_o lay_v man_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o consecrate_v &_o that_o though_o christ_n do_v himself_o consecrate_v &_o command_v his_o apostle_n so_o to_o do_v in_o remembrance_n of_o he_o that_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o add_v any_o express_a promise_n that_o the_o same_o effect_n shall_v always_o follow_v whensoever_o any_o man_n shall_v offer_v to_o consecrate_v which_o be_v not_o against_o us._n for_o we_o gather_v that_o power_n to_o pertain_v to_o the_o apostle_n successor_n in_o priesthood_n out_o of_o the_o word_n 1._o council_n trid._n sess_n 22._o q._n 1._o hoc_fw-la facite_fw-la in_o meam_fw-la commemorationem_fw-la not_o bare_o but_o as_o they_o have_v be_v ever_o understand_v by_o the_o church_n which_o be_v so_o far_o from_o be_v against_o we_o that_o we_o may_v rather_o urge_v it_o against_o you_o upon_o the_o same_o occasion_n that_o bishop_n fisher_n do_v to_o wit_n for_o proof_n of_o the_o necessity_n of_o tradition_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o understanding_n of_o scripture_n and_o so_o by_o this_o it_o be_v manifest_v how_o much_o you_o have_v abuse_v this_o holy_a bishop_n meaning_n as_o you_o do_v other_o two_o bishop_n that_o follow_v 18._o the_o one_o be_v gul._n durandus_fw-la bishop_n of_o mand_v out_o of_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o will_v prove_v the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n not_o to_o be_v of_o the_o essence_n of_o this_o sacrament_n for_o what_o else_o you_o will_v have_v with_o he_o i_o see_v not_o but_o special_o because_o have_v cite_v he_o thus_o in_o english_a christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n by_o his_o heavenly_a benediction_n and_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o word_n the_o bread_n be_v turn_v unto_o the_o substance_n of_o christ_n body_n then_o you_o put_v these_o word_n in_o latin_a tunc_fw-la confecit_fw-la cum_fw-la benedixit_fw-la they_o he_o make_v it_o when_o he_o bless_v it_o whereby_o you_o seem_v to_o put_v the_o force_n of_o this_o testimony_n in_o those_o word_n as_o if_o by_o they_o you_o will_v prove_v out_o of_o durandus_fw-la that_o christ_n do_v not_o consecrate_v by_o the_o word_n this_o be_v my_o body_n but_o by_o that_o blessing_n but_o durand_n himself_o shall_v disprove_v you_o sir_n knight_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v benedixit_fw-la benedictione_n caelesti_fw-la &_o virtute_fw-la verbi_fw-la qua_fw-la convertitur_fw-la panis_fw-la in_o substantiam_fw-la corporis_fw-la christi_fw-la to_o wit_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_n meum_fw-la he_o bless_v it_o by_o the_o heavenly_a blessing_n and_o power_n of_o the_o word_n by_o which_o the_o bread_n be_v turn_v into_o the_o substance_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n 14._o durand_n rat_n cap._n 41._o n._n 14._o to_o wit_n this_o be_v my_o body_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la which_o last_o word_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v sir_n humphrey_n why_o you_o cut_v of_o but_o i_o need_v not_o ask_v for_o any_o man_n may_v see_v it_o be_v because_o you_o will_v not_o have_v that_o powerful_a benediction_n whereof_o this_o author_n speak_v to_o consist_v in_o those_o sacred_a word_n but_o durand_n both_o in_o this_o very_a sentence_n and_o often_o in_o the_o same_o place_n attribute_v most_o plain_o that_o power_n to_o those_o very_a word_n not_o to_o any_o other_o blessing_n as_o may_v appear_v in_o that_o he_o say_v that_o we_o do_v bless_v ex_fw-la illa_fw-la virtute_fw-la quam_fw-la christus_fw-la indidit_fw-la verbis_fw-la by_o that_o power_n which_o christ_n have_v give_v to_o the_o word_n 19_o odo_n caemeracensis_n be_v the_o other_o bishop_n that_o follow_v who_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n you_o cite_v and_o as_o much_o to_o the_o purpose_n his_o word_n be_v these_o as_o you_o bring_v they_o christ_n bless_v the_o bread_n and_o then_o make_v that_o his_o body_n which_o be_v first_o bread_n and_o so_o by_o blessing_n it_o become_v flesh_n for_o otherwise_o he_o will_v not_o have_v say_v after_o he_o have_v bless_v it_o this_o be_v my_o body_n unless_o by_o blessing_n it_o he_o have_v make_v it_o his_o body_n which_o word_n you_o put_v in_o the_o margin_n in_o latin_a imperfect_o and_o translate_v even_o they_o corrupt_o benedixit_fw-la suum_fw-la corpus_fw-la you_o translate_v christ_n bless_v bread_n qui_fw-la priùs_fw-la erat_fw-la panis_fw-la benedictione_n factus_fw-la est_fw-la caro_fw-la which_o in_o true_a english_a be_v thus_o that_o which_o be_v bread_n before_o by_o blessing_n be_v make_v flesh_n you_o translate_v otherwise_o as_o may_v appear_v by_o your_o word_n though_o i_o see_v not_o to_o what_o end_n you_o shall_v so_o
several_a place_n you_o offend_v in_o another_o kind_n for_o whereas_o the_o council_n say_v that_o though_o christ_n in_o his_o last_o supper_n do_v institute_v the_o sacrament_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o so_o give_v it_o to_o his_o apostle_n you_o leave_v out_o that_o of_o the_o last_o supper_n and_o that_o of_o the_o apostle_n both_o which_o be_v put_v down_o there_o for_o very_o good_a reason_n and_o to_o our_o purpose_n that_o determine_v of_o the_o time_n of_o the_o last_o supper_n leave_v it_o free_a for_o we_o to_o think_v that_o christ_n may_v at_o some_o other_o time_n after_o his_o resurrection_n communicate_v some_o of_o his_o disciple_n in_o one_o kind_n as_o some_o father_n think_v he_o do_v his_o two_o disciple_n at_o emmaus_n or_o at_o least_o thereby_o do_v foreshow_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n as_o suarez_n show_v out_o of_o s._n aug._n and_o other_o 1._o suar._n 3._o p._n to_o 3._o disp_n 71_o sect_n 1._o that_o word_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v likewise_o put_v down_o to_o show_v that_o that_o particular_a fact_n of_o christ_n and_o command_n do_v pertain_v only_o to_o the_o apostle_n who_o be_v then_o ordain_v priest_n and_o in_o they_o to_o such_o as_o shall_v succeed_v they_o in_o that_o office_n whereas_o you_o by_o leave_v out_o that_o word_n will_v fain_o have_v it_o seem_v as_o if_o that_o of_o both_o kind_n do_v pertain_v to_o all_o thus_o much_o then_o for_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n 7._o now_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o say_v against_o this_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n first_o observe_v your_o strange_a folly_n in_o say_v that_o one_o that_o shall_v hear_v two_o counsel_n one_o accurse_v another_o condemn_v for_o haeretique_n such_o as_o shall_v deny_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o kind_n will_v glad_o know_v the_o reason_n whereas_o you_o yourself_o note_v in_o the_o margin_n a_o treatise_n of_o gerson_n against_o the_o haeresy_n of_o the_o lay_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n acknowledge_v that_o he_o show_v the_o cause_n for_o if_o he_o show_v cause_n why_o do_v you_o call_v for_o 〈◊〉_d as_o if_o there_o be_v none_o give_v if_o he_o do_v not_o why_o do_v you_o say_v he_o do_v but_o to_o let_v that_o pass_n with_o the_o rest_n of_o your_o non_fw-la sequitur_n you_o bring_v the_o two_o place_n of_o scripture_n before_o cite_v drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o and_o do_v this_o in_o remembrance_n of_o i_o which_o place_n you_o may_v see_v answer_v in_o bellarmine_n with_o all_o the_o enforcement_n and_o urge_v that_o luther_n caluin_n kemnitius_n melancthon_n 24._o bell._n de_fw-fr euch._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 24._o brentius_n and_o all_o the_o rabble_n of_o they_o can_v bring_v the_o answer_n in_o a_o word_n be_v this_o that_o the_o former_a word_n be_v speak_v only_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o in_o they_o to_o priest_n as_o appear_v more_o plain_o by_o s._n mark_v who_o show_v all_o which_o our_o saviour_n mean_v of_o 14.23_o mar._n 14.23_o when_o he_o say_v drink_v you_o all_o of_o this_o for_o say_v s._n mark_v and_o they_o do_v drink_v all_o thereof_o the_o late_a word_n import_v only_o the_o distribution_n in_o one_o kind_n be_v speak_v as_o appear_v by_o s._n luke_n immediate_o after_o the_o consecration_n of_o the_o bread_n 19_o luc._n 22_o 19_o before_o the_o consecration_n of_o the_o chalice_n and_o though_o they_o shall_v have_v be_v speak_v after_o both_o how_o will_v you_o prove_v to_o which_o action_n of_o our_o saviour_n for_o he_o do_v more_o than_o one_o at_o that_o time_n that_o pronowne_v hoc_fw-la have_v relation_n or_o which_o it_o do_v demonstrate_v the_o sense_n therefore_o and_o explication_n thereof_o be_v to_o be_v take_v from_o the_o father_n and_o church_n who_o understand_v no_o such_o precept_n in_o those_o word_n as_o be_v the_o give_v of_o both_o kind_n 8._o another_o argument_n of_o you_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o which_o you_o bring_v ten_o or_o eleven_o author_n which_o need_v nâ—t_o for_o we_o will_v have_v grant_v you_o that_o without_o all_o that_o labour_n but_o what_o proveâ—â—_n out_o that_o that_o all_o must_v do_v so_o now_o you_o must_v first_o prove_v it_o a_o practice_n ground_v upon_o some_o divine_a precept_n indispensable_a or_o else_o it_o follow_v not_o but_o that_o it_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o church_n to_o alter_v the_o practice_n in_o the_o use_n and_o administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o it_o be_v to_o change_v the_o sabbath_n into_o the_o sunday_n though_o the_o observe_n of_o the_o sabbath_n be_v a_o divine_a precept_n nay_o you_o must_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v general_a so_o as_o none_o do_v or_o may_v do_v otherwise_o but_o that_o you_o can_v do_v for_o bellarmine_n even_o in_o the_o place_n here_o cite_v by_o you_o teach_v that_o even_o than_o all_o do_v not_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n and_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o note_v two_o thing_n one_o be_v that_o whereas_o bell._n in_o the_o place_n here_o cite_v say_v he_o prove_v before_o that_o all_o do_v not_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n that_o of_o the_o prove_v you_o leave_v out_o putte_v a_o little_a line_n which_o may_v give_v a_o man_n some_o notice_n of_o something_o want_v which_o yet_o be_v a_o little_a better_a deal_n then_o common_o you_o use_v though_o not_o so_o good_a as_o you_o promise_v we_o at_o first_o another_o that_o whereas_o bell._n bring_v six_o main_a reason_n deduce_v out_o of_o scripture_n partly_o out_o of_o the_o figure_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o partly_o out_o of_o the_o doctrine_n and_o example_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o his_o apostle_n in_o the_o new_a and_o in_o one_o of_o those_o reason_n which_o be_v deduce_v out_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n he_o bring_v six_o several_a rite_n or_o practice_n which_o our_o adversaries_n can_v deny_v evident_o convince_a the_o frequent_a use_n of_o one_o kind_n you_o in_o your_o 7._o sect._n here_o before_o bring_v but_o one_o coniectural_a place_n which_o i_o there_o promise_v to_o answer_n as_o if_o bellarmine_n have_v no_o more_o nor_o no_o better_a proof_n even_o which_o conjecture_v you_o neither_o do_v nor_o can_v impugn_v for_o it_o be_v ground_v upon_o two_o place_n of_o scripture_n thus_o bellarmine_n say_v it_o be_v a_o probable_a conjecture_n that_o the_o nazarite_n among_o the_o first_o christian_n in_o jerusalem_n do_v communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n 24._o bell._n lib._n 4._o de_fw-fr euch._n cap._n 24._o he_o prove_v it_o thus_o one_o scripture_n say_v of_o these_o first_o christian_n in_o jerusalem_n that_o they_o be_v all_o persevere_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o break_v of_o bread_n which_o be_v the_o receive_n of_o the_o eucharist_n as_o all_o agree_v among_o these_o there_o be_v many_o nazarite_n as_o it_o be_v most_o probable_a for_o there_o be_v many_o continual_o among_o the_o jew_n which_o be_v so_o there_o be_v another_o scripture_n that_o do_v forbid_v a_o nazarite_n to_o drink_v wine_n or_o even_o eat_v a_o grape_n raisin_n or_o so_o much_o as_o the_o stone_n it_o be_v not_o like_a than_o that_o they_o do_v receive_v in_o both_o kind_n for_o either_o they_o must_v make_v the_o former_a scripture_n false_a if_o they_o do_v not_o communicate_v at_o all_o or_o they_o must_v break_v the_o command_n of_o the_o late_a by_o communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n this_o bellarmine_n do_v not_o say_v be_v a_o convince_a proof_n for_o such_o he_o have_v a_o great_a many_o other_o but_o only_o probable_a and_o such_o no_o man_n can_v deny_v it_o to_o be_v why_o then_o shall_v you_o stand_v jeer_a at_o it_o without_o once_o say_v what_o be_v false_a or_o improbable_a 9_o touch_v the_o rest_n of_o your_o author_n which_o you_o bring_v for_o proof_n that_o it_o be_v the_o common_a practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o laity_n to_o communicate_v in_o both_o kind_n i_o allow_v of_o their_o authority_n they_o affirm_v only_o that_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n not_o any_o command_n but_o for_o as_o much_o as_o you_o bring_v one_o authority_n to_o prove_v the_o more_o conveniency_n of_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n quite_o contrary_a to_o the_o author_n meaning_n i_o mean_v here_o to_o have_v a_o say_n unto_o you_o for_o it_o this_o author_n be_v ruardus_n tapperus_n who_o you_o cite_v thus_o it_o be_v more_o convenient_a the_o communion_n be_v administer_v under_o both_o kind_n then_o under_o one_o alone_a for_o this_o be_v more_o agreeable_a to_o the_o institution_n and_o fullness_n thereof_o and_o to_o the_o example_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n 15._o râ—ar_n tapp_n 〈◊〉_d 15._o the_o latin_a be_v thus_o habito_fw-la respectu_fw-la ad_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la eiusque_fw-la perfectionem_fw-la magis_fw-la
scripture_n which_o they_o stand_v upon_o he_o answer_v thus_o et_fw-la etiam_fw-la si_fw-la sacrae_fw-la scripturae_fw-la authoritas_fw-la non_fw-la subesset_fw-la lucifer_n dialog_n 2._o con_v lucifer_n totius_fw-la orbis_fw-la in_o hanc_fw-la partem_fw-la consensus_fw-la instar_fw-la praecepti_fw-la obtineret_fw-la and_o although_o the_o authority_n of_o holy_a scripture_n be_v want_v the_o consent_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n on_o this_o side_n shall_v have_v the_o force_n of_o a_o precept_n and_o so_o there_o be_v a_o end_n of_o this_o 5._o §_o of_o prayer_n and_o service_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n §._o 6._o 1._o in_o this_o §_o the_o knight_n speak_v against_o the_o practice_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n in_o two_o thing_n one_o be_v for_o use_v the_o public_a service_n in_o a_o tongue_n not_o know_v to_o the_o vulgar_a people_n another_o for_o say_v some_o part_n of_o the_o mass_n with_o a_o loud_a voice_n so_o as_o the_o people_n can_v hear_v the_o practice_n of_o which_o two_o thing_n though_o the_o knight_n confound_v they_o into_o one_o be_v several_o and_o distinct_o approve_v by_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n &_o anathema_n pronounce_v against_o whosoever_o shall_v condemn_v either_o of_o they_o against_o which_o notwithstanding_o he_o begin_v with_o the_o council'_v own_o authority_n think_v also_o even_o by_o it_o to_o make_v good_a the_o contrary_a practice_n of_o his_o church_n for_o say_v he_o the_o council_n in_o say_v that_o the_o mass_n do_v contain_v great_a instruction_n of_o the_o faithful_a people_n or_o as_o he_o translate_v the_o word_n of_o the_o council_n in_o the_o begin_n of_o this_o §_o great_a instruction_n for_o the_o common_a people_n and_o that_o it_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v unto_o they_o do_v consequent_o affirm_v that_o the_o service_n and_o prayer_n in_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n be_v better_a for_o the_o aedification_n of_o the_o church_n and_o this_o he_o confirm_v with_o a_o argument_n of_o his_o own_o thus_o and_o without_o doubt_n say_v he_o the_o apostle_n be_v command_v to_o show_v forth_o the_o lord_n death_n till_o his_o come_n it_o be_v not_o intend_v to_o show_v it_o to_o the_o wall_n or_o in_o a_o silent_a &_o unknown_a voice_n as_o it_o be_v now_o use_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o to_o pronounce_v it_o open_o to_o be_v hear_v and_o understand_v of_o the_o hearer_n so_o far_o our_o knight_n now_o to_o reckon_v with_o he_o 2._o because_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n say_v that_o the_o mass_n contain_v great_a instruction_n of_o the_o people_n and_o that_o for_o that_o end_n it_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v unto_o they_o he_o say_v it_o consequent_o affirm_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n to_o be_v better_o for_o aedification_n of_o the_o church_n do_v it_o so_o sir_n humphrey_n by_o what_o logic_n do_v this_o consequence_n follow_v or_o by_o what_o figure_n of_o rhetoric_n do_v you_o take_v one_o thing_n for_o another_o the_o council_n say_v that_o though_o the_o mass_n contain_v great_a instruction_n yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n you_o tell_v we_o the_o council_n by_o consequence_n do_v affirm_v it_o to_o follow_v the_o council_n think_v it_o better_a to_o retain_v the_o general_a and_o long_o continue_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o not_o use_v the_o vulgar_a tongue_n in_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n but_o for_o instruction_n of_o the_o people_n to_o interpret_v something_o of_o what_o be_v read_v you_o say_v it_o approve_v the_o contrary_a custom_n of_o your_o church_n if_o it_o have_v so_o have_v it_o not_o be_v a_o easy_a matter_n to_o have_v appoint_v it_o to_o be_v read_v in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n but_o the_o council_n know_v well_o that_o course_n be_v not_o so_o fit_a neither_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o public_a good_a of_o the_o church_n nor_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o private_a good_a of_o the_o faithful_a people_n for_o many_o reason_n 3._o first_o for_o the_o general_a practice_n and_o custom_n which_o have_v be_v observe_v in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n of_o have_v the_o mass_n and_o public_a office_n in_o latin_a all_n over_o the_o latin_a or_o western_a church_n both_o in_o italy_n spain_n france_n germany_n england_n africa_n &_o all_o other_o place_n and_o so_o likewise_o in_o greek_a in_o the_o grecian_a or_o eastern_a church_n though_o it_o be_v as_o large_a in_o extent_n &_o have_v as_o much_o variety_n of_o vulgar_a language_n in_o it_o as_o the_o latin_a church_n have_v which_o custom_n be_v not_o to_o be_v forsake_v especial_o for_o haeretique_n &_o out_o of_o that_o their_o false_a persuasion_n that_o it_o be_v no_o good_a or_o lawful_a practice_n second_o for_o the_o uniformity_n which_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v use_v in_o such_o thing_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v excellent_o declare_v &_o also_o much_o maintain_v by_o this_o unity_n of_o language_n in_o the_o church-office_n for_o as_o language_n be_v a_o thing_n most_o necessary_a for_o commerce_n among_o man_n in_o civil_a matter_n so_o also_o in_o ecclesiastical_a and_o without_o this_o use_n of_o latin_a in_o this_o manner_n there_o can_v not_o be_v that_o communication_n between_o man_n of_o learning_n neither_o will_v man_n of_o one_o country_n be_v the_o better_a for_o the_o writing_n of_o other_o there_o will_v be_v little_a meeting_n of_o man_n of_o several_a nation_n in_o counsel_n little_a study_n of_o counsel_n of_o father_n &_o other_o who_o have_v all_o write_v in_o latin_a or_o some_o learned_a language_n whereas_o the_o use_n of_o the_o latin_a tongue_n in_o the_o church_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o all_o the_o contrary_a effect_n as_o we_o see_v by_o experience_n three_o the_o use_n of_o vulgar_a tongue_n in_o the_o mass_n and_o church-office_n will_v cause_v not_o only_o great_a confusion_n but_o breed_v a_o infinite_a number_n of_o error_n by_o so_o many_o several_a translation_n not_o only_o in_o several_a country_n but_o by_o several_a translation_n in_o every_o country_n of_o any_o small_a extent_n even_o in_o the_o same_o place_n upon_o a_o little_a change_n of_o time_n for_o as_o we_o see_v in_o every_o age_n the_o vulgar_a language_n recive_v a_o great_a alternation_n of_o which_o translation_n the_o church_n will_v not_o be_v able_a any_o way_n to_o judge_v scripture_n be_v the_o hard_a thing_n to_o translate_v of_o all_o other_o &_o which_o therefore_o for_o the_o well_o translate_n thereof_o require_v the_o special_a assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n which_o no_o private_a man_n can_v promise_v himself_o last_o the_o use_n of_o a_o vulgar_a language_n in_o such_o thing_n will_v breed_v a_o great_a contempt_n of_o sacred_a thing_n with_o profane_v and_o irreligiosity_n beside_o the_o danger_n of_o haeresy_n which_o come_v no_o way_n soon_o than_o by_o misunderstanding_n of_o holy_a scripture_n neither_o be_v any_o more_o apt_a to_o mis-understand_v it_o than_o the_o simple_a sort_n of_o people_n if_o they_o once_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o understand_v these_o reason_n then_o among_o other_o but_o most_o of_o all_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n draw_v even_o from_o the_o apostle_n by_o perpetual_a succession_n and_o practice_n may_v persuade_v the_o council_n to_o think_v that_o though_o some_o benefitt_a might_n come_v to_o some_o few_o particular_a man_n by_o understanding_n what_o be_v write_v yet_o it_o be_v absolute_o better_a to_o retain_v the_o same_o custom_n still_o and_o even_o to_o remedy_v that_o inconvenience_n another_o way_n to_o wit_n by_o explain_v something_o of_o what_o be_v read_v in_o the_o mass_n which_o the_o council_n declare_v by_o a_o similitude_n very_o proper_a for_o the_o purpose_n to_o wit_n by_o break_v of_o bread_n to_o little_a one_o fort_n it_o be_v even_o as_o necessary_a for_o ordinary_a people_n to_o have_v the_o scripture_n so_o declare_v as_o for_o child_n to_o have_v their_o bread_n break_v and_o as_o unfit_a to_o give_v such_o man_n the_o scripture_n itself_o whole_a to_o read_v or_o to_o read_v it_o so_o unto_o they_o as_o to_o give_v a_o little_a child_n a_o whole_a great_a loaf_n neither_o if_o a_o man_n mark_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n word_n well_o do_v it_o say_v that_o the_o mass_n do_v contain_v instruction_n in_o that_o sense_n as_o if_o the_o only_a read_n of_o thing_n in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n will_v be_v a_o instruction_n but_o only_o that_o it_o contain_v great_a instruction_n that_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o may_v be_v good_a for_o the_o people_n to_o learn_v be_v explicate_v which_o a_o man_n may_v true_o say_v though_o even_o when_o it_o be_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n it_o can_v be_v understand_v without_o help_n of_o a_o expositor_n how_o then_o sir_n humphrey_n do_v the_o council_n acknowledge_v your_o
province_n or_o country_n 9_o and_o here_o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v further_o for_o answer_n of_o your_o authoritye_n in_o this_o point_n sir_n humphrey_n that_o whereas_o some_o of_o our_o author_n be_v of_o opinion_n that_o s._n paul_n in_o that_o 14._o chap._n of_o the_o 1._o to_o corinth_n where_o he_o speak_v of_o prayer_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o public_a prayer_n of_o the_o church_n that_o explication_n be_v contradict_v by_o most_o of_o our_o other_o author_n and_o there_o be_v many_o reason_n out_o of_o the_o very_a text_n and_o circumstance_n against_o it_o as_o namely_o that_o the_o man_n which_o be_v here_o reprehend_v for_o their_o ostentation_n of_o language_n be_v the_o people_n not_o the_o priest_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o whole_a epistle_n as_o i_o note_v here_o before_o §_o 3._o n._n 5._o upon_o another_o occasion_n as_o also_o because_o this_o pertain_v to_o woman_n also_o who_o it_o seem_v do_v use_v to_o speak_v among_o the_o rest_n which_o s._n paul_n therefore_o reprehend_v as_o a_o abuse_n and_o forbid_v three_o s._n paul_n speak_v of_o the_o infidel_n come_v in_o and_o be_v present_a at_o those_o their_o meeting_n and_o conference_n which_o therefore_o can_v not_o be_v of_o the_o church_n office_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n to_o which_o infidel_n be_v not_o admit_v wherefore_o it_o can_v be_v of_o the_o public_a prayer_n of_o the_o church_n which_o belong_v only_o to_o priest_n to_o make_v public_o for_o other_o in_o the_o church_n but_o though_o it_o be_v so_o and_o that_o some_o do_v put_v themselves_o to_o more_o strait_n than_o they_o need_v in_o interpret_n s._n paul_n of_o public_a prayer_n yet_o do_v it_o not_o avail_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n for_o even_o those_o man_n give_v a_o reason_n of_o difference_n why_o now_o it_o need_v not_o to_o wit_n because_o now_o as_o s._n thomas_n of_o aquine_n say_v people_n be_v sufficient_o acquaint_v with_o the_o ecclesiastical_a rite_n and_o man_n know_v very_o well_o what_o be_v do_v by_o be_v present_a and_o see_v though_o they_o do_v not_o understand_v the_o particular_a epistle_n and_o ghospel_n which_o be_v several_a according_a to_o the_o sunday_n and_o holy_a day_n but_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o mass_n be_v the_o same_o continual_o they_o understand_v it_o sufficient_o for_o exercise_v of_o their_o devotion_n though_o not_o to_o satisfy_v the_o vain_a curiosity_n of_o such_o people_n as_o you_o breed_v up_o in_o the_o pride_n of_o a_o heretical_a spirit_n to_o believe_v nothing_o but_o what_o they_o see_v and_o contemn_v whatsoever_o they_o do_v not_o see_v or_o understand_v our_o people_n know_v sufficient_o what_o the_o priest_n mean_v by_o turn_v to_o they_o &_o say_v dominus_fw-la vobiscum_fw-la oremus_fw-la orate_fw-la fratres_n and_o the_o like_a i_o say_v sufficient_o to_o lift_v up_o their_o mind_n to_o almyghty_a god_n to_o join_v in_o their_o heart_n &_o mind_n with_o the_o priest_n in_o that_o prayer_n which_o he_o make_v public_a for_o they_o as_o well_o as_o any_o learned_a clerk_n that_o understand_v the_o english_a of_o the_o word_n so_o as_o our_o author_n by_o you_o cite_v help_v you_o not_o a_o whit_n in_o this_o matter_n 10._o but_o now_o because_o you_o say_v this_o prayer_n in_o the_o vulgar_a tongue_n be_v use_v by_o the_o precept_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o practice_v of_o the_o ancient_a father_n i_o will_v know_v of_o you_o where_o this_o precept_n be_v express_v either_o in_o scripture_n or_o out_o of_o scripture_n in_o any_o author_n of_o credit_n i_o do_v not_o find_v so_o much_o as_o any_o shadow_n of_o a_o precept_n in_o scripture_n s._n paul_n in_o that_o epistle_n to_o the_o corinthian_n which_o your_o man_n for_o the_o most_o part_n stand_v upon_o do_v not_o condemn_v that_o prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n as_o you_o do_v for_o he_o both_o say_v it_o be_v good_a though_o he_o prefer_v the_o gift_n of_o prophecy_n before_o it_o and_o also_o he_o allow_v the_o use_n of_o it_o but_o wish_v withal_o that_o some_o other_o shall_v interpret_v it_o as_o you_o see_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n wish_v pastor_n and_o curate_n to_o do_v of_o the_o mass_n and_o mystery_n therein_o contain_v where_o then_o be_v the_o precept_n command_v a_o know_a tongue_n or_o forbid_v a_o unknown_a tongue_n and_o this_o i_o say_v suppose_v for_o disputation_n sake_n two_o thing_n which_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o so_o to_o wit_n that_o s._n paul_n there_o speak_v of_o public_a prayer_n of_o the_o church-office_n and_o that_o the_o latin_a greeke_n or_o hebrew_n tongue_n be_v right_o call_v unknown_a tongue_n or_o any_o way_n comprehend_v under_o that_o appellation_n in_o s._n paul_n 11._o now_o for_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o father_n which_o you_o speak_v of_o but_o name_n none_o i_o will_v glad_o know_v sir_n humphrey_n what_o father_n you_o have_v who_o authority_n or_o example_n you_o can_v bring_v for_o yourself_o in_o this_o matter_n name_n he_o if_o you_o can_v we_o show_v you_o father_n and_o learned_a man_n of_o many_o several_a nation_n and_o of_o different_a time_n use_v the_o scripture_n only_o in_o some_o one_o of_o these_o 3._o holy_a language_n for_o example_n italian_n spaniard_n french_a german_a english_a polish_v african_n and_o other_o use_v the_o latin_a and_o diverse_a ancient_a father_n of_o several_a country_n as_o s._n cyprian_n s._n august_n in_o africa_n s._n ambrose_n in_o italy_n s._n prosper_v in_o france_n other_o in_o other_o country_n cite_v the_o very_a word_n which_o we_o to_o this_o day_n use_v in_o our_o mass_n 16._o duran_n de_fw-fr ritib._fw-la lib_n 2._o cap_n 31._o &_o bell._n lib._n 2._o de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la cap._n 15._o &_o 16._o as_o sursum_fw-la corda_fw-la habemus_fw-la ad_fw-la dominum_fw-la and_o the_o like_a whereof_o you_o may_v see_v more_o in_o our_o author_n and_o yet_o be_v so_o destitute_a of_o all_o proof_n for_o yourself_o and_o so_o ignorant_a of_o we_o which_o we_o have_v in_o abundance_n you_o can_v talk_v so_o confident_o of_o the_o precept_n of_o apostle_n and_o practice_n of_o father_n but_o you_o will_v say_v you_o bring_v lyra_n belethus_n gretzerus_n etc._n etc._n to_o prove_v what_o you_o say_v whereto_o i_o answer_v no_o such_o matter_n for_o first_o they_o speak_v not_o a_o word_n of_o any_o precept_n second_o some_o witness_n only_o the_o practice_n of_o that_o time_n yet_o withal_o give_v the_o reason_n why_o it_o need_v not_o be_v so_o now_o other_o speak_v nothing_o that_o way_n for_o example_n io._n belethus_n even_o as_o you_o cite_v he_o say_v only_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n no_o man_n be_v to_o speak_v in_o tongue_n unless_o some_o body_n be_v to_o interpret_v from_o whence_o he_o say_v be_v grow_v our_o custom_n when_o the_o gospel_n be_v read_v to_o expound_v it_o which_o be_v quite_o against_o you_o for_o he_o acknowledge_v speak_v of_o language_n which_o you_o deny_v and_o expound_v which_o according_a to_o you_o will_v not_o be_v needful_a other_o again_o speak_v but_o doubtful_o as_o s._n thomas_n of_o aquine_n dicendum_fw-la fort_n say_v he_o it_o be_v to_o be_v say_v that_o it_o may_v be_v that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n benediction_n be_v use_v in_o the_o vulgar_a language_n who_o yet_o you_o make_v to_o speak_v absolute_o and_o certain_o three_o though_o some_o say_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n be_v use_v in_o a_o language_n understand_v by_o the_o people_n yet_o no_o man_n say_v that_o that_o language_n be_v any_o of_o the_o ordinary_a vulgar_a language_n or_o indeed_o other_o than_o hebrew_a greek_n or_o latin_a wherefore_o all_o the_o author_n you_o can_v bring_v though_o you_o shall_v bring_v ten_o for_o one_o in_o this_o manner_n will_v nothing_o avail_v you_o 12._o now_o for_o your_o citation_n and_o translation_n of_o such_o author_n as_o you_o bring_v i_o can_v find_v many_o fault_n but_o i_o pass_v they_o over_o only_a bellarmine_n i_o can_v let_v pass_n because_o you_o abuse_v he_o somewhat_o more_o gross_o for_o you_o bring_v a_o objection_n of_o his_o out_o of_o one_o place_n and_o a_o answer_n out_o of_o another_o there_o be_v no_o connexion_n or_o correspondence_n between_o the_o answer_n and_o objection_n as_o you_o make_v it_o thus_o it_o may_v be_v object_v say_v you_o out_o of_o he_o that_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n all_o the_o people_n in_o divine_a service_n do_v answer_n one_o amen_o and_o this_o custom_n continue_v long_o in_o the_o east_n and_o west_n church_n as_o appear_v etc._n etc._n which_o be_v true_a but_o nothing_o to_o the_o present_a purpose_n for_o man_n may_v answer_n amen_o to_o the_o public_a prayer_n of_o the_o church_n without_o their_o be_v in_o a_o vulgar_a language_n neither_o be_v it_o the_o thing_n
way_n will_v you_o think_v they_o make_v you_o a_o material_a god_n philo_n authority_n than_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n 7._o for_o the_o jew_n now_o adays_o who_o sir_n edwin_n sands_n say_v be_v avert_v from_o the_o christian_a faith_n by_o have_v the_o crucifix_n show_v unto_o they_o i_o answer_v it_o be_v no_o wonder_n they_o that_o can_v endure_v christ_n how_o shall_v they_o endure_v his_o cross_n s._n paul_n preach_v christ_n crucify_v though_o he_o be_v a_o scandal_n or_o stumble_a block_n to_o their_o ancestor_n and_o must_v we_o leave_v to_o preach_v he_o though_o their_o child_n stumble_v at_o the_o same_o block_n noe_o sir_n humphrey_n we_o must_v not_o cease_v to_o preach_v christ_n nor_o can_v we_o preach_v he_o without_o his_o cross_n they_o go_v both_o together_o no_o man_n can_v love_v he_o and_o hate_v his_o cross_n nor_o hate_v his_o cross_n and_o love_v he_o wherefore_o you_o in_o allege_v their_o hate_n of_o the_o cross_n as_o a_o argument_n why_o you_o shall_v also_o hate_v the_o same_o you_o tacit_o confess_v you_o love_n christ_n as_o well_o as_o they_o do_v 8._o but_o now_o for_o your_o conclusion_n which_o you_o infer_v hereupon_o that_o it_o be_v agree_v upon_o on_o all_o side_n that_o the_o jew_n in_o the_o old_a law_n for_o 4000_o year_n never_o allow_v adoration_n of_o image_n and_o this_o say_v you_o be_v concern_v the_o image_n of_o god_n the_o father_n i_o see_v not_o what_o premise_n you_o infer_v it_o upon_o nor_o who_o agree_v with_o you_o in_o it_o you_o name_v four_o author_n one_o catholic_a one_o jew_n one_o magician_n one_o protestant_a the_o protestant_n to_o wit_n sir_n edwin_n sands_n speak_v not_o of_o any_o picture_n of_o god_n the_o father_n as_o you_o say_v you_o mean_v but_o of_o the_o crucifix_n or_o image_n of_o christ_n upon_o the_o cross_n the_o magician_n to_o wit_n cornelius_n agrippa_n say_v the_o jew_n do_v abhor_v image_n but_o he_o be_v no_o man_n to_o build_v upon_o be_v it_o true_a or_o false_a which_o he_o say_v all_o be_v one_o come_v out_o of_o such_o a_o fellow_n mouth_n the_o jew_n to_o wit_n philo_n say_v that_o the_o invisible_a god_n be_v not_o paint_v which_o we_o grant_v as_o i_o say_v before_o according_a to_o his_o own_o nature_n the_o catholic_a indeed_o to_o wit_n vazq_n say_v that_o image_n in_o state_n of_o adoration_n be_v altogether_o forbid_v but_o yet_o grant_v the_o adoration_n of_o other_o thing_n of_o the_o same_o kind_n as_o the_o ark_n and_o temple_n neither_o do_v his_o opinion_n avail_v you_o for_o even_o according_a to_o it_o you_o must_v confess_v that_o the_o example_n of_o the_o jew_n in_o that_o be_v no_o precedent_n for_o our_o time_n but_o beside_o other_o say_v adoration_n of_o image_n be_v somewhat_o allow_v even_o then_o and_o they_o prove_v their_o say_n by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o cherubin_n in_o the_o temple_n which_o be_v adore_v how_o then_o be_v it_o agree_v upon_o on_o both_o side_n but_o much_o more_o i_o may_v ask_v how_o you_o come_v to_o say_v the_o jew_n never_o allow_v adoration_n of_o image_n for_o almost_o 4000_o year_n when_o as_o the_o people_n of_o the_o jew_n be_v not_o such_o a_o people_n above_o 2000_o year_n 3984_o v._o bell._n in_o chronolog_n moses_n live_v about_o the_o year_n 2403._o christ_n be_v bear_v anno_fw-la mundi_fw-la 3984_o nay_o moses_n live_v not_o pass_v 1500._o before_o our_o saviour_n so_o that_o of_o your_o own_o liberality_n and_o skill_n in_o chronology_n you_o have_v add_v 2500._o year_n to_o make_v your_o doctrine_n seem_v ancient_a last_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v your_o own_o impertinency_n and_o contradiction_n in_o all_o this_o which_o you_o have_v say_v your_o contradiction_n in_o that_o you_o say_v that_o this_o which_o you_o have_v say_v be_v concern_v the_o image_n of_o god_n the_o father_n whereas_o your_o authoritye_n be_v to_o the_o contrary_a to_o wit_n of_o other_o image_n your_o impertinency_n in_o that_o you_o stand_v bring_v these_o thing_n against_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n which_o speak_v not_o of_o god_n the_o father_n his_o picture_n but_o only_o of_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n picture_n against_o which_o they_o make_v nothing_o 8._o but_o bethink_v yourself_o a_o little_a after_o you_o say_v you_o will_v descend_v to_o see_v what_o order_n be_v take_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o representation_n of_o he_o and_o his_o saint_n and_o all_o the_o order_n that_o you_o find_v take_v or_o that_o you_o yourself_o take_v be_v to_o say_v that_o this_o law_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n be_v moral_a which_o though_o vazq_n and_o other_o divine_n contradict_v yet_o you_o say_v bellarmine_n be_v of_o that_o opinion_n well_o be_v it_o so_o let_v it_o be_v moral_a as_o you_o will_v have_v it_o what_o be_v you_o the_o better_a do_v christ_n or_o his_o apostle_n say_v so_o or_o be_v this_o the_o order_n that_o they_o have_v take_v if_o it_o be_v not_o you_o be_v never_o the_o near_a for_o it_o be_v but_o a_o matter_n of_o opinion_n between_o divine_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n far_o from_o any_o such_o authority_n as_o you_o promise_v by_o which_o a_o man_n will_v have_v expect_v some_o evident_a clear_a place_n either_o of_o the_o gospel_n or_o apostolical_a writing_n to_o prove_v that_o image_n be_v not_o to_o be_v adore_v at_o all_o or_o no_o more_o than_o in_o the_o old_a law_n of_o the_o jew_n but_o whereas_o this_o be_v to_o be_v expect_v at_o your_o hand_n you_o put_v we_o upon_o it_o to_o bring_v some_o example_n or_o precept_n out_o of_o the_o gospel_n for_o adoration_n of_o image_n but_o we_o say_v that_o need_v not_o for_o as_o in_o the_o old_a law_n notwithstanding_o that_o command_n be_v it_o moral_a or_o caeremonial_a man_n do_v adore_v the_o cherubin_n in_o the_o temple_n the_o ark_n in_o the_o temple_n and_o the_o temple_n itself_o so_o may_v we_o much_o more_o in_o the_o new_a adore_v the_o picture_n of_o christ_n and_o saint_n and_o this_o be_v enough_o without_o any_o new_a precept_n or_o example_n 9_o moreover_o we_o be_v not_o to_o be_v urge_v to_o this_o consider_v we_o teach_v many_o thing_n out_o of_o unwritten_a tradition_n and_o therefore_o there_o may_v be_v some_o precept_n and_o example_n both_o of_o our_o saviour_n and_o his_o apostle_n 21.25_o io._n 20.30_o &_o 21.25_o though_o not_o write_v in_o scripture_n because_o as_o s._n john_n say_v all_o be_v not_o write_v or_o rather_o a_o very_a small_a part_n be_v write_v as_o his_o word_n import_v three_o we_o say_v we_o have_v the_o example_n of_o our_o saviour_n and_o his_o apostle_n testify_v both_o by_o good_a authentical_a history_n and_o the_o perpetual_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n against_o which_o it_o be_v insolent_a madness_n to_o dispute_v as_o s._n aug._n say_v many_o great_a and_o grave_a author_n make_v mention_n of_o 3._o several_a image_n make_v miraculous_o by_o our_o b._n saviour_n himself_o call_n v._o durant_n de_fw-fr rit_fw-fr lib._n 1._o cap_n 5._o euseb_n eua._n procop._n adr._n 1._o damasc_n const_n porphyragenitus_n â—onar_fw-mi nicep_v pho._n niceph._n call_n one_o be_v that_o which_o he_o send_v to_o abgarus_n king_n of_o edessa_n who_o have_v desire_v to_o see_v he_o which_o request_n of_o he_o our_o saviour_n do_v in_o some_o sort_n satisfy_v by_o send_v he_o his_o picture_n another_o be_v that_o of_o veronica_n which_o he_o make_v with_o wipe_v his_o face_n as_o he_o be_v carry_v his_o cross_n and_o give_v to_o that_o devout_a woman_n that_o take_v so_o much_o pity_n of_o he_o as_o to_o give_v he_o a_o handkerchief_n at_o that_o time_n to_o wipe_v his_o face_n all_o bedew_v with_o blood_n and_o sweat_n a_o three_o be_v one_o which_o nicodemus_n give_v to_o gamaliel_n all_o which_o be_v testify_v not_o only_o by_o grave_n and_o learned_a author_n but_o i_o may_v say_v even_o by_o god_n himself_o though_o not_o inscripture_n yet_o by_o great_a and_o wonderful_a miracle_n whereof_o there_o can_v be_v no_o doubt_n in_o regard_n both_o of_o the_o number_n and_o credit_n of_o the_o author_n which_o report_v they_o we_o have_v the_o example_n alsoe_o of_o s._n luke_n paint_n our_o b._n lady_n which_o very_a picture_n be_v keep_v to_o this_o day_n and_o authorize_v likewise_o by_o god_n himself_o by_o many_o and_o wonderful_a miracle_n which_o though_o you_o perhaps_o may_v make_v yourself_o merry_a withal_o with_o your_o minister_n yet_o i_o hope_v the_o judicious_a reader_n will_v more_o regard_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o lest_o of_o these_o author_n who_o be_v not_o in_o number_n so_o few_o as_o 20._o i_o mean_v for_o ancient_a author_n than_o the_o impious_a scorn_n of_o a_o hundred_o such_o yesterday_o people_n as_o
answer_n be_v that_o polydore_n speak_v not_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n but_o of_o those_o of_o the_o old_a who_o therefore_o he_o name_v veteres_fw-la patres_fw-la the_o old_a father_n and_o in_o particular_a name_v moses_n and_o ezechias_n the_o reason_n indeed_o why_o they_o do_v condemn_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n be_v fear_n of_o idolatry_n but_o the_o reason_n of_o that_o fear_n be_v as_o he_o say_v because_o no_o man_n have_v see_v god_n they_o know_v not_o what_o shape_n to_o give_v he_o and_o discourse_v of_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n which_o be_v a_o figure_n of_o christ_n upon_o the_o cross_n he_o say_v a_o long_a time_n after_o god_n put_v on_o humane_a sharp_a and_o be_v make_v man_n be_v see_v and_o know_v by_o mortal_a man_n and_o in_o that_o humble_a shape_n by_o his_o own_o power_n wrought_v miracle_n beyond_o credit_n the_o same_o whereof_o make_v man_n come_v flock_v unto_o he_o who_o do_v so_o behold_v and_o reverence_v his_o face_n without_o doubt_n shine_v with_o the_o brightness_n of_o divine_a light_n that_o they_o they_o first_o begin_v to_o paint_v and_o carve_v his_o effigy_n now_o already_o imprint_v in_o their_o mind_n and_o there_o tell_v to_o that_o purpose_n the_o story_n out_o of_o eusebius_n of_o the_o hemorrhoisse_n and_o 2._o picture_n of_o our_o saviour_n make_v by_o himself_o one_o send_v to_o abagarus_n the_o other_o give_v to_o veronica_n he_o also_o say_v thus_o it_o be_v a_o constant_a opinion_n that_o s._n luke_n do_v paint_v in_o certain_a table_n the_o figure_n of_o our_o lady_n which_o to_o this_o day_n be_v in_o some_o place_n keep_v most_o holy_o and_o worship_v most_o religious_o then_o relate_v out_o of_o eusebius_n how_o the_o image_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v frame_v and_o keep_v by_o christian_n cit_v the_o word_n follow_v out_o of_o he_o insignia_fw-la etenim_fw-la veterum_fw-la reseruari_fw-la ad_fw-la posterorun_v memoriam_fw-la illorum_fw-la honoris_fw-la horum_fw-la vero_fw-la amoris_fw-la iudicium_fw-la est_fw-la for_o the_o reserve_n of_o the_o sign_n mark_n or_o thing_n belong_v to_o the_o ancient_n to_o the_o memory_n of_o posterity_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o honour_n to_o they_o &_o love_v in_o these_o hence_o say_v polydore_n be_v grow_v worthy_o a_o custom_n of_o place_v in_o the_o church_n &_o reverence_v the_o statue_n as_o well_o of_o our_o saviour_n as_o his_o ss_z but_o because_o by_o the_o memory_n of_o saint_n as_o it_o be_v a_o example_n or_o sample_n set_v before_o our_o eye_n which_o the_o image_n represent_v man_n be_v stir_v up_o to_o virtue_n &_o imitation_n &_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o image_n pass_v to_o the_o honour_n of_o the_o original_a as_o s._n basil_n say_v therefore_o the_o father_n have_v not_o only_o admit_v that_o custom_n but_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o 6._o synod_n at_o constantinople_n under_o constantine_n &_o justinian_n the_o 2._o his_o son_n it_o be_v decree_v as_o may_v appear_v by_o the_o canonical_a decree_n that_o the_o holy_a image_n of_o ss_z shall_v be_v have_v in_o church_n &_o worship_v with_o great_a veneration_n be_v to_o ignorant_a people_n in_o place_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n whereto_o also_o frankincense_n be_v offer_v and_o taper_n be_v light_v and_o there_o add_v 2._o or_o 3._o counsel_n more_o decree_a the_o same_o again_o he_o conclude_v thus_o ecquis_fw-la igitur_fw-la tam_fw-la dissolutus_fw-la tantaque_fw-la audacia_fw-la praeditus_fw-la est_fw-la qui_fw-la velit_fw-la possitue_a dubitare_fw-la seu_fw-la aliter_fw-la somniare_fw-la ne_fw-la dicam_fw-la sentire_fw-la vel_fw-la cogitare_fw-la de_fw-la imaginum_fw-la cultu_fw-la ac_fw-la demum_fw-la sit_fw-la tot_fw-la long_o sanctissimorum_fw-la patrum_fw-la decreto_fw-la constitutum_fw-la what_o man_n be_v there_o therefore_o so_o dissolute_a and_o endue_v with_o so_o much_o boldness_n who_o will_n or_o can_v doubt_v or_o otherwise_o dream_n that_o i_o may_v not_o say_v judge_n or_o think_v of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n then_o at_o last_o have_v be_v approve_v by_o the_o decree_n of_o so_o many_o most_o holy_a father_n thus_o far_o polydore_n to_o who_o demand_n why_o may_v not_o i_o answer_v that_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v be_v the_o man_n so_o dissolute_a and_o audacious_a that_o dare_v not_o only_a dream_n but_o wake_v with_o all_o his_o wit_n and_o sense_n that_o he_o have_v about_o he_o and_o speak_v and_o write_v dare_v i_o say_v not_o only_o doubt_v of_o but_o absolute_o deny_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n and_o not_o only_o this_o but_o even_o to_o bring_v thou_o o_o polydore_n virgil_n to_o witness_v with_o he_o against_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o all_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n condemn_v the_o same_o what_o will_v this_o author_n say_v to_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n if_o he_o be_v alive_a to_o see_v himself_o abuse_v by_o you_o and_o which_o be_v yet_o more_o even_o after_o dr._n white_n be_v convict_v of_o this_o dissolutenes_n and_o audaciousnes_n yet_o you_o will_v be_v at_o it_o again_o hereby_o a_o man_n may_v see_v there_o need_v no_o other_o confutation_n but_o only_a right_n cite_v of_o your_o own_o author_n 17._o for_o peresius_n his_o word_n be_v nothing_o against_o we_o for_o they_o touch_v only_o upon_o a_o school_n point_n whether_o the_o picture_n be_v to_o be_v adore_v with_o the_o same_o worship_n as_o the_o prototype_n or_o thing_n represent_v or_o with_o a_o inferior_a worship_n the_o former_a opinion_n only_o he_o deni_v because_o say_v he_o there_o be_v neither_o proof_n out_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n of_o the_o church_n common_a consent_n of_o father_n or_o determination_n of_o a_o general_a council_n which_o very_a say_n of_o he_o be_v enough_o to_o condemn_v you_o who_o will_v not_o acknowledge_v sufficient_a authority_n in_o tradition_n father_n or_o council_n to_o believe_v a_o thing_n which_o you_o like_v not_o but_o to_o make_v it_o plain_o appear_v how_o much_o you_o wrong_v peresius_n in_o bring_v he_o against_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n i_o will_v bring_v a_o place_n 2._o leaf_n before_o that_o which_o you_o cite_v out_o of_o he_o it_o be_v this_o manifest_a habes_fw-la etc._n etc._n imag_n peres_n de_fw-fr tradit_fw-la cap._n the_o imag_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o the_o use_n and_o worship_n of_o image_n have_v be_v universal_o in_o the_o church_n from_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o the_o disesteem_v of_o they_o begin_v from_o forlorn_a and_o infamous_a man_n 500_o year_n after_o the_o church_n be_v plant_v and_o true_o if_o the_o worship_n and_o reverence_n be_v do_v devout_o and_o sincere_o this_o institution_n be_v holy_a and_o profitable_a which_o both_o apostolic_a tradition_n have_v introduce_v the_o use_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n affirm_v the_o consent_n of_o very_o famous_a and_o general_a counsel_n both_o in_o the_o east_n and_o west_n be_v add_v thereto_o which_o also_o even_o natural_a reason_n do_v dictate_v thus_o far_o be_v peresius_n his_o own_o word_n whereby_o any_o man_n may_v see_v whether_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o deal_v well_o with_o he_o or_o not_o to_o pretend_v his_o authority_n against_o our_o use_n and_o worship_n of_o image_n pp_n agobard_fw-mi de_fw-mi pick_v &_o imaginib_fw-la in_o bibl_a pp_n 18._o now_o for_o agobardus_n who_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v great_a acount_n of_o if_o you_o consider_v he_o a_o little_a better_a you_o will_v find_v little_a cause_n he_o write_v indeed_o a_o book_n de_fw-fr picturis_fw-la &_o imaginibus_fw-la the_o whole_a drift_n whereof_o be_v only_o against_o the_o idolatrical_a use_n or_o abuse_v of_o image_n against_o which_o he_o speak_v very_o much_o by_o occasion_n of_o some_o abuse_n in_o his_o time_n as_o it_o be_v meet_v he_o and_o every_o good_a man_n shall_v and_o for_o the_o same_o end_n he_o bring_v many_o authoritye_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n all_o which_o speak_v plain_o against_o idolatry_n and_o likewise_o he_o bring_v that_o canon_n of_o the_o council_n of_o eliberis_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o he_o that_o no_o picture_n shall_v be_v paint_v on_o the_o wall_n understand_v it_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n which_o i_o allege_v in_o my_o second_o answer_n to_o that_o canon_n before_o to_o wit_n for_o avoid_v superstition_n in_o some_o young_a and_o unexperienced_a christian_n convert_v from_o gentility_n but_o for_o those_o word_n which_o follow_v in_o your_o citation_n of_o he_o to_o wit_n these_o there_o be_v no_o example_n in_o all_o the_o scripture_n or_o father_n for_o adoration_n of_o image_n i_o do_v not_o find_v they_o in_o he_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a of_o that_o they_o be_v not_o join_v with_o the_o former_a as_o you_o here_o join_v they_o thus_o indeed_o he_o say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n habuerunt_fw-la antiqui_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la imagine_v vel_fw-la pictas_fw-la vel_fw-la sculptas_fw-la sed_fw-la causa_fw-la historiae_fw-la ad_fw-la
wind_n indulgence_n §._o 8._o 1._o we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o §_o of_o this_o chapter_n which_o be_v indulgence_n which_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n begin_v after_o your_o wont_a manner_n with_o the_o ten_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n as_o you_o call_v it_o and_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n teach_v that_o christ_n have_v leave_v that_o power_n of_o grant_v indulgence_n in_o his_o church_n and_o that_o the_o church_n have_v use_v the_o same_o from_o most_o ancient_a time_n and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v retain_v in_o the_o church_n condemn_v also_o whosoever_o shall_v term_v they_o unprofitable_a or_o deny_v authority_n in_o the_o church_n to_o grant_v they_o which_o doctrine_n you_o allow_v not_o of_o as_o not_o be_v agreeable_a to_o christ_n institution_n nor_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a father_n you_o confess_v indeed_o that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v a_o power_n in_o the_o bishop_n to_o remit_v or_o mitigate_v the_o severity_n of_o the_o punishment_n which_o by_o the_o canon_n man_n be_v to_o undergo_v for_o certain_a great_a crime_n which_o mitigation_n you_o allow_v to_o have_v be_v call_v by_o the_o name_n of_o indulgence_n and_o in_o that_o sense_n you_o take_v that_o relaxation_n of_o the_o incestuous_a corithian_a by_o s_n paul_n thus_o far_o you_o go_v well_o with_o we_o but_o now_o you_o say_v the_o indulgence_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n &_o his_o saint_n term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n which_o treasure_n you_o say_v be_v apply_v to_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n and_o that_o which_o be_v former_o leave_v to_o the_o discretion_n of_o every_o bishop_n in_o his_o diocese_n be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o this_o not_o only_o for_o some_o few_o year_n in_o this_o life_n but_o for_o many_o thousand_o in_o purgatory_n after_o death_n 2._o this_o be_v your_o discourse_n sir_n humphrey_n which_o though_o you_o seem_v to_o take_v to_o be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o substantial_a one_o yet_o be_v it_o nothing_o so_o for_o first_o it_o neither_o prove_v any_o thing_n nor_o overthrow_v our_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n though_o that_o be_v true_a which_o you_o say_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n of_o these_o time_n and_o those_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o use_n of_o those_o time_n be_v not_o our_o only_a ground_n for_o this_o point_n of_o doctrine_n but_o we_o have_v other_o both_o of_o scripture_n tradition_n &_o undoubted_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n for_o above_o a_o thousand_o year_n at_o least_o and_o this_o of_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n in_o relaxation_n of_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o penitential_a canon_n be_v not_o urge_v by_o we_o at_o lest_o by_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n as_o a_o evident_a convince_a proof_n but_o only_o as_o coniectural_a and_o probable_a q._n suar._n to_o 3._o in_o 3._o pars_fw-la disp_n 49_o sect_n 2._o n._n 4.5_o &_o sâ—_n q._n it_o be_v not_o then_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o you_o to_o stand_v so_o much_o urge_v the_o difference_n between_o the_o indulgence_n of_o our_o time_n and_o those_o of_o other_o former_a time_n as_o if_o by_o do_v that_o you_o have_v do_v all_o that_o be_v to_o be_v do_v 3._o but_o beside_o to_o answer_n second_o you_o have_v not_o do_v even_o that_o for_o you_o do_v but_o only_o make_v show_v as_o if_o you_o will_v have_v man_n think_v they_o be_v different_a without_o show_v wherein_o the_o difference_n consist_v nay_o even_o out_o of_o that_o which_o you_o grant_v of_o those_o ancient_a indulgence_n you_o may_v be_v disprove_v in_o what_o you_o deny_v of_o we_o for_o to_o begin_v with_o the_o very_a word_n indulgence_n you_o grant_v it_o to_o have_v be_v in_o use_n in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v we_o be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n which_o though_o allege_v as_o a_o difference_n yet_o do_v i_o not_o see_v wherein_o the_o difference_n be_v for_o they_o be_v a_o absolution_n because_o it_o be_v a_o unloose_n or_o untie_n for_o whereas_o by_o the_o canon_n for_o certain_a great_a crime_n man_n be_v bind_v or_o tie_v to_o undergo_v such_o penance_n for_o example_n to_o fast_o with_o bread_n and_o water_n so_o many_o day_n in_o a_o week_n for_o so_o many_o month_n or_o year_n not_o to_o be_v admit_v to_o the_o sacrament_n and_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n and_o the_o like_a by_o this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o you_o grant_v they_o be_v untie_v or_o loose_v from_o so_o much_o or_o so_o little_a as_o by_o that_o pardon_n they_o be_v free_v from_o and_o so_o be_v it_o in_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o the_o absolution_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o lose_v or_o untie_n it_o can_v not_o be_v also_o in_o the_o guilt_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v remit_v in_o your_o indulgence_n as_o well_o as_o in_o we_o for_o a_o man_n be_v not_o free_a so_o long_o as_o he_o be_v guilty_a if_o then_o they_o be_v free_v by_o that_o pardon_n the_o guilt_n be_v take_v away_o thereby_o it_o be_v not_o likewise_o in_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o be_v alike_o remit_v in_o the_o one_o and_o other_o for_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n or_o penance_n which_o man_n be_v free_v from_o in_o those_o time_n by_o indulgence_n and_o so_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n which_o we_o be_v now_o adays_o free_v from_o by_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v sir_n humphrey_n when_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n in_o this_o say_v that_o indulgence_n which_o be_v first_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v now_o reduce_v to_o private_a satisfaction_n for_o what_o be_v not_o those_o indulgence_n give_v to_o private_a man_n for_o satisfaction_n or_o in_o lieu_n of_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o they_o be_v to_o make_v by_o the_o canon_n and_o be_v not_o we_o mitigation_n of_o the_o same_o unless_o you_o put_v the_o force_n in_o this_o that_o there_o the_o punishment_n be_v only_o mitigate_v or_o lessen_v &_o that_o in_o our_o indulgence_n all_o be_v take_v away_o which_o yet_o be_v false_a on_o both_o side_n for_o neither_o in_o we_o be_v all_o the_o punishment_n take_v always_o away_o and_o in_o those_o sometime_o all_o be_v take_v away_o as_o we_o see_v by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o corinthian_a who_o s._n paul_n do_v forgive_v without_o limitation_n beside_o this_o i_o do_v not_o imagine_v what_o you_o can_v mean_v in_o these_o word_n 4._o the_o difference_n also_o be_v not_o in_o the_o authority_n or_o power_n whereby_o this_o pardon_n be_v grant_v for_o than_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o the_o bishop_n and_o so_o it_o be_v also_o now_o for_o every_o bishop_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v this_o power_n but_o you_o will_v say_v humphrey_n not_o so_o much_o now_o as_o then_o be_v it_o so_o that_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o that_o be_v your_o complaint_n that_o it_o be_v more_o use_v now_o then_o in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v again_o the_o pope_n have_v more_o now_o than_o he_o have_v then_o and_o that_o all_o be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o late_a part_n be_v false_a all_o be_v not_o so_o whole_o transfer_v but_o that_o every_o bishop_n have_v his_o part_n of_o this_o power_n over_o his_o own_o subject_n though_o with_o some_o limitation_n and_o though_o the_o pope_n shall_v take_v it_o whole_o to_o himself_o and_o from_o other_o bishop_n what_o be_v this_o against_o indulgence_n do_v it_o alter_v the_o nature_n of_o they_o because_o the_o pope_n give_v they_o either_o more_o by_o himself_o or_o more_o liberal_o than_o he_o do_v heretofore_o by_o other_o the_o power_n be_v in_o many_o before_o now_o it_o be_v in_o one_o that_o one_o than_o have_v more_o power_n than_o he_o have_v before_o but_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o power_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n can_v consist_v in_o this_o but_o think_v not_o sir_n that_o i_o grant_v you_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o be_v more_o now_o then_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v nor_o less_o than_o they_o now_o it_o be_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o this_o power_n as_o of_o all_o other_o his_o power_n of_o bind_v &_o lose_v whereof_o this_o be_v one_o branch_n which_o do_v ever_o extend_v over_o the_o whole_a church_n over_o all_o pastor_n and_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o
riff_o raff_o stuff_n as_o your_o minister_n be_v wont_a to_o eke_o out_o their_o book_n and_o sermon_n without_o be_v able_a to_o show_v any_o bull_n of_o pope_n or_o testimony_n of_o good_a author_n of_o any_o indulgence_n so_o grant_v which_o though_o you_o or_o they_o can_v yet_o be_v be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n no_o more_o than_o your_o profane_a jest_n out_o of_o guiciardin_n of_o play_v a_o game_n at_o table_n for_o a_o indulgence_n for_o what_o suppose_v that_o be_v true_a may_v not_o a_o man_n think_v you_o tell_v as_o good_a a_o tale_n of_o some_o protestant_n who_o in_o their_o pot_n have_v make_v so_o bold_a with_o almighty_a god_n himself_o as_o to_o drink_v a_o health_n unto_o he_o and_o be_v not_o this_o a_o fine_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v no_o god_n beside_o guiciardin_n history_n translate_v by_o coelius_n secundus_fw-la curio_n which_o i_o suppose_v you_o to_o cite_v for_o it_o be_v most_o like_o you_o be_v no_o italian_a be_v forbid_v in_o the_o roman_a index_n that_o curio_n be_v a_o haeretique_n of_o the_o first_o class_n but_o pass_v from_o your_o merriment_n you_o tell_v we_o serious_o that_o you_o will_v not_o say_v it_o be_v a_o strange_a presumption_n for_o a_o council_n to_o determine_v a_o uncertain_a doctrine_n upon_o the_o pope_n infallibility_n and_o opinion_n of_o schoolman_n but_o you_o venture_v to_o say_v it_o be_v a_o weak_a and_o senseless_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_v to_o it_o without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n your_o meaning_n be_v by_o a_o fine_a rhetorical_a figure_n to_o say_v it_o be_v presumption_n by_o say_v you_o will_v not_o say_v so_o but_o sir_n humphrey_n i_o will_v go_v the_o plain_a way_n to_o work_v with_o you_o and_o tell_v you_o it_o be_v intolerable_a presumption_n for_o you_o suppose_v you_o be_v a_o man_n of_o learning_n to_o take_v upon_o you_o to_o censure_v of_o presumption_n so_o great_a a_o council_n as_o that_o of_o trent_n wherein_o the_o whole_a flower_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o learning_n and_o sanctity_n be_v gather_v together_o the_o splendour_n whereof_o be_v so_o great_a that_o your_o night_n owl_n haeretique_n dare_v not_o once_o appear_v though_o they_o be_v invite_v and_o promise_v to_o go_v and_o come_v free_o with_o all_o the_o security_n they_o can_v wish_v and_o for_o such_o a_o fellow_n as_o you_o to_o make_v yourself_o judge_v thereof_o what_o intolerable_a presumption_n be_v it_o it_o be_v presumption_n with_o you_o forsooth_o for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o point_n of_o faith_n upon_o the_o perpetual_a and_o constant_a belief_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n &_o upon_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o doctor_n be_v both_o of_o they_o sufficient_a rule_n of_o faith_n of_o themselves_o there_o be_v withal_o sufficient_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n in_o the_o sense_n which_o it_o have_v ever_o be_v understand_v by_o catholic_a interpreter_n and_o yet_o it_o be_v not_o presumption_n for_o you_o without_o doctor_n without_o father_n without_o council_n without_o scripture_n without_o any_o manner_n of_o authority_n to_o go_v against_o all_o this_o authority_n 13._o now_o whereas_o you_o say_v it_o be_v a_o senseless_a and_o weak_a faith_n that_o give_v assent_n to_o doctrine_n as_o necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v which_o want_v authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o consent_n of_o father_n i_o answer_v you_o do_v not_o know_v what_o you_o say_v it_o show_v plain_o you_o have_v not_o read_v one_o of_o those_o father_n of_o who_o you_o so_o much_o brag_v who_o all_o agree_v that_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n which_o man_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v upon_o unwritten_a tradition_n who_o authority_n you_o may_v see_v in_o great_a number_n in_o bellarmine_n 7._o de_fw-fr verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o but_o for_o consent_v of_o father_n it_o be_v true_a it_o be_v requisite_a because_o we_o have_v not_o the_o tradition_n but_o by_o consent_n of_o father_n but_o this_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v no_o more_o require_v to_o be_v by_o their_o express_a testimony_n in_o writing_n then_o in_o the_o scripture_n itself_o for_o where_o do_v you_o find_v that_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v know_v believe_v or_o practice_v no_o more_o but_o what_o they_o do_v write_v or_o that_o any_o one_o do_v write_v in_o particular_a all_o the_o whole_a belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n the_o father_n do_v in_o their_o writing_n as_o the_o apostle_n do_v in_o they_o that_o be_v write_v of_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a matter_n as_o the_o particular_a occasion_n of_o answer_v some_o haeretique_n or_o instruct_v some_o catholic_a do_v require_v and_o therefore_o mention_v no_o more_o than_o be_v needful_a for_o that_o end_n but_o the_o consent_n of_o father_n be_v most_o of_o all_o prove_v by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o the_o present_a time_n see_v that_o practice_n be_v without_o beginning_n can_v otherwise_o have_v be_v but_o from_o those_o that_o have_v go_v before_o from_o time_n to_o time_n and_o though_o you_o make_v a_o difference_n yet_o certain_o it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o the_o consent_n of_o catholic_a doctor_n in_o the_o present_a time_n as_o it_o be_v of_o holy_a father_n in_o former_a time_n who_o be_v the_o doctor_n of_o those_o time_n and_o as_o they_o be_v father_n not_o so_o proper_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o time_n wherein_o they_o live_v as_o of_o succeed_a age_n so_o the_o doctor_n of_o these_o time_n be_v father_n in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o shall_v come_v after_o they_o neither_o can_v the_o consent_n of_o doctor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n more_o err_v in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n and_o assistance_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v always_o the_o same_o no_o less_o in_o one_o time_n then_o another_o 28._o tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 28._o and_o tertullian_n rule_n have_v still_o place_n as_o well_o in_o one_o age_n as_o another_o to_o wit_n quod_fw-la apud_fw-la multos_fw-la unum_fw-la invenitur_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la erratum_fw-la sed_fw-la traditum_fw-la that_o which_o be_v the_o same_o among_o many_o be_v no_o error_n but_o a_o tradition_n the_o common_a consent_n therefore_o of_o doctor_n and_o particular_a church_n be_v always_o a_o sufficient_a argument_n of_o tradition_n and_o antiquity_n and_o consequent_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o a_o council_n to_o define_v a_o matter_n of_o faith_n against_o whatsoever_o novel_a fancy_n of_o any_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v take_v upon_o he_o to_o control_v the_o same_o this_o i_o do_v not_o say_v that_o we_o want_v sufficient_a proof_n of_o antiquity_n for_o any_o point_n but_o to_o show_v that_o we_o need_v it_o not_o so_o express_v in_o ancient_a author_n but_o that_o the_o very_a practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o stop_n the_o mouth_n of_o any_o contentious_a haeretique_n no_o less_o then_o in_o ancient_a time_n when_o that_o proof_n of_o forego_v writer_n can_v have_v no_o place_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n think_v he_o answer_v sufficient_o for_o defence_n of_o himself_o and_o offence_n of_o his_o contentious_a enemy_n 11._o 1._o cor._n 11._o when_o he_o say_v si_fw-la quis_fw-la videtur_fw-la contentiosus_fw-la esse_fw-la nos_fw-la talem_fw-la consuetudinem_fw-la non_fw-la habemus_fw-la neque_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la dei_fw-la if_o any_o man_n seem_v to_o be_v contentious_a we_o have_v no_o such_o custom_n nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o so_o much_o more_o may_v we_o now_o say_v of_o our_o long_a continue_a custom_n of_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n wherefore_o your_o exception_n sir_n humphrey_n against_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n for_o define_v this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n without_o such_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n &_o antiquity_n as_o you_o require_v be_v vain_a as_o that_o be_v also_o false_a which_o you_o here_o again_o repeat_v that_o a_o article_n of_o faith_n can_v be_v warrantable_a without_o authority_n of_o scripture_n for_o faith_n be_v more_o ancient_a than_o scripture_n for_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o the_o time_n before_o christ_n faith_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n himself_o without_o writing_n as_o also_o by_o his_o apostle_n after_o he_o for_o many_o year_n without_o any_o word_n write_v and_o so_o it_o have_v be_v ever_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o holy_a and_o learned_a man_n that_o as_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o apostolical_a preach_n then_o write_v so_o no_o less_o credit_n be_v still_o to_o be_v give_v to_o their_o word_n deliver_v we_o by_o tradition_n then_o by_o their_o writing_n the_o credit_n and_o sense_n even_o of_o their_o writing_n depend_v upon_o the_o same_o tradition_n among_o who_o the_o clean_a contrary_a principle_n be_v as_o certain_a and_o undoubted_a as_o this_o of_o you_o be_v with_o you_o
you_o see_v his_o meaning_n to_o be_v absolute_o to_o condemn_v idol-worship_n and_o approve_v image-worship_n neither_o do_v your_o note_n of_o the_o greek_a word_n in_o the_o margin_n in_o proof_n that_o s._n peter_n speak_v of_o idol-worship_n avail_v you_o for_o val._n speak_v only_o of_o the_o latin_a word_n which_o be_v more_o indifferent_a and_o in_o some_o author_n signify_v the_o same_o that_o imago_fw-la and_o even_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o it_o be_v now_o by_o the_o use_n of_o father_n counsel_n and_o doctor_n determine_v to_o signify_v a_o empty_a or_o vain_a image_n of_o a_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o according_a to_o that_o of_o s._n paul_n idolum_fw-la nihil_fw-la est_fw-la in_o mundo_fw-la a_o idol_n be_v nothing_o in_o the_o world_n 7.4_o cor._n 7.4_o yet_o if_o a_o man_n respect_v the_o primitive_a signification_n or_o etymology_n it_o may_v perhaps_o be_v take_v more_o indifferent_o for_o it_o come_v from_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o signify_v species_n or_o forma_fw-la the_o seem_a shape_n or_o beauty_n of_o a_o thing_n or_o person_n but_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o signification_n of_o word_n we_o must_v follow_v the_o ecclesiastical_a rule_n neither_o do_v i_o allow_v valencia_n his_o use_n of_o the_o word_n simulachrum_fw-la and_o explication_n of_o s._n peter_n text_n or_o even_o his_o argument_n draw_v from_o thence_o though_o the_o point_n of_o doctrine_n which_o he_o defend_v be_v true_a to_o wit_n image-worship_n but_o this_o be_v to_o show_v you_o how_o he_o may_v use_v the_o word_n harmeles_o especial_o declare_v himself_o plain_o by_o other_o word_n though_o for_o you_o to_o stand_v trifle_v &_o contend_v about_o word_n when_o you_o see_v his_o meaning_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o your_o want_n of_o matter_n but_o here_o by_o the_o way_n i_o can_v but_o note_v how_o to_o urge_v the_o matter_n more_o against_o valentia_n you_o run_v yourself_o upon_o the_o rock_n for_o you_o observe_v that_o the_o word_n use_v by_o saint_n peter_n in_o that_o place_n signify_v idol-worship_n not_o image-worship_n wherein_o you_o seem_v plain_o to_o confess_v that_o image-worship_n and_o idol-worship_n and_o consequent_o a_o image_n and_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o whereby_o as_o you_o think_v to_o advantage_v you_o self_n in_o this_o place_n against_o the_o jesuit_n so_o you_o do_v not_o mark_v that_o herein_o you_o contradict_v your_o self_n and_o the_o whole_a currant_n of_o your_o own_o doctor_n who_o chief_a argument_n against_o image_n be_v certain_a place_n of_o scripture_n against_o idol_n which_o you_o also_o bring_v before_o for_o if_o a_o image_n &_o a_o idol_n be_v not_o all_o one_o then_o be_v all_o your_o argument_n nothing_o worth_a or_o if_o they_o be_v then_o be_v valentia_n argument_n good_a choose_v which_o you_o will_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o cast_v up_o your_o count_n aright_o you_o will_v find_v you_o have_v lose_v more_o than_o you_o have_v gain_v by_o this_o citation_n of_o valencia_n 15._o a_o five_o point_n of_o uncertainty_n you_o deliver_v in_o these_o word_n concern_v the_o two_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o eucharist_n it_o be_v most_o evident_a say_v bellarmine_n but_o concern_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n it_o be_v not_o so_o certain_a and_o out_o of_o canus_n you_o say_v the_o divine_n speak_v so_o uncertaine_o of_o the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o they_o do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o give_v grace_n or_o no_o thus_o you_o sir_n humphrey_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o for_o the_o place_n of_o bellarm._n you_o be_v convince_v before_o of_o manifest_a corruption_n for_o whereas_o bellarm._n say_v it_o be_v certain_a fine_a cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o in_o fine_a but_o not_o so_o manifest_v you_o leave_v out_o not_o manifest_a and_o change_v certain_a into_o not_o certain_a beside_o what_o be_v that_o which_o bellarmine_n say_v be_v not_o manifest_v but_o certain_a that_o these_o two_o be_v sacrament_n the_o rest_n not_o noe_o such_o matter_n sir_n knight_n it_o be_v their_o signification_n which_o he_o speak_v of_o &_o yet_o not_o their_o signification_n of_o grace_n which_o they_o cause_n but_o their_o signify_v of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o beginning_n and_o aeternal_a life_n which_o be_v the_o end_n of_o the_o grace_n give_v by_o the_o sacrament_n this_o signification_n he_o say_v be_v certain_a but_o not_o so_o evident_a in_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o canus_n you_o corrupt_v he_o as_o foul_o also_o for_o first_o you_o join_v two_o several_a place_n together_o as_o if_o they_o be_v but_o one_o in_o canus_n himself_o &_o then_o make_v he_o say_v that_o the_o divine_n do_v not_o resolve_v whether_o it_o that_o be_v matrimony_n give_v grace_n or_o no_o which_o be_v most_o flat_o false_a for_o as_o i_o show_v before_o he_o grant_v it_o with_o all_o divine_n to_o be_v proper_o a_o sacrament_n his_o two_o place_n several_o be_v thus_o the_o divine_n speak_v so_o diverse_o of_o the_o matter_n &_o form_n of_o matrimony_n that_o it_o be_v folly_n for_o a_o man_n to_o resolve_v any_o thing_n certain_a this_o be_v one_o whereof_o i_o speak_v more_o before_o &_o show_v that_o his_o meaning_n be_v not_o to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a whither_o it_o be_v a_o sacrament_n or_o not_o or_o whither_o it_o have_v a_o matter_n and_o form_n 4._o cap._n 9_o §._o 4._o for_o that_o i_o show_v to_o be_v most_o certain_a and_o by_o most_o express_a word_n of_o his_o own_o but_o that_o no_o man_n can_v say_v determinate_o which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n which_o as_o bellarmine_n say_v well_o be_v not_o so_o necessary_a for_o we_o to_o know_v but_o that_o without_o it_o we_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o acknowledge_v a_o true_a sacrament_n it_o be_v enough_o to_o know_v what_o be_v requisite_a for_o celebrate_v a_o true_a sacrament_n and_o what_o those_o thing_n be_v without_o which_o it_o be_v not_o a_o sacrament_n though_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o of_o those_o thing_n be_v the_o matter_n &_o which_o the_o form_n for_o example_n if_o a_o priest_n in_o baptism_n use_v true_a water_n and_o the_o right_a word_n he_o do_v administer_v a_o true_a sacrament_n though_o he_o shall_v not_o know_v which_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o which_o the_o form_n nay_o though_o he_o shall_v think_v the_o word_n to_o be_v the_o matter_n and_o water_v the_o form_n though_o the_o clean_a contrary_n be_v truth_n the_o other_o place_n of_o canus_n be_v that_o he_o say_v that_o matrimony_n contract_v without_o a_o priest_n be_v no_o sacrament_n because_o in_o his_o opinion_n the_o word_n which_o the_o priest_n speak_v be_v the_o form_n and_o of_o that_o kind_n of_o matrimony_n he_o consequent_o deni_v it_o to_o give_v grace_n but_o of_o matrimony_n absolute_o and_o as_o it_o be_v use_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n he_o never_o make_v doubt_n see_v before_o his_o word_n 16._o the_o last_o matter_n of_o uncertainty_n be_v of_o our_o tradition_n which_o you_o say_v you_o be_v uncertain_a whereas_o the_o scripture_n be_v write_v to_o give_v we_o certainty_n for_o this_o say_n you_o allege_v no_o catholic_n true_o nor_o false_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v count_v of_o be_v so_o manifest_o false_a for_o whence_o have_v we_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o very_a scripture_n themselves_o but_o by_o tradition_n and_o much_o more_o of_o the_o sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n beside_o as_o i_o have_v often_o say_v and_o show_v this_o your_o prime_a principle_n be_v not_o only_o false_a but_o contrary_a to_o express_v scripture_n and_o contrary_a to_o the_o common_a consent_n of_o all_o father_n which_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v in_o whole_a treatise_n write_v hereof_o wherefore_o to_o come_v to_o a_o end_n of_o this_o your_o section_n of_o certainty_n we_o find_v nothing_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n uncertain_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n nothing_o certain_a on_o your_o side_n but_o only_o that_o you_o be_v always_o and_o every_o where_o sir_n humphrey_n line_v of_o the_o 11._o sect._n entitle_v thus_o 11._o chap._n 11._o the_o testimony_n of_o our_o adversary_n touch_v the_o great_a safety_n comfort_n and_o benefit_n of_o the_o soul_n in_o the_o protestant_a faith_n then_o in_o the_o romish_a chapter_n xi_o 1._o from_z certainty_n you_o come_v to_o safety_n whereof_o you_o need_v not_o have_v make_v so_o distinct_a mention_n and_o proof_n it_o follow_v necessary_o and_o manifest_o that_o that_o faith_n which_o be_v most_o certain_a in_o itself_o be_v also_o most_o safe_a for_o man_n to_o follow_v as_o also_o it_o can_v be_v safe_a without_o certainty_n wherefore_o as_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o certain_a in_o your_o former_a
section_n so_o be_v you_o not_o able_a to_o prove_v it_o safe_a in_o this_o wherein_o notwitstanding_o we_o must_v hear_v a_o little_a what_o you_o say_v and_o first_o i_o wonder_v you_o talk_v still_o so_o much_o of_o prove_v the_o safety_n and_o comfort_n of_o your_o faith_n out_o of_o our_o author_n when_o you_o can_v name_v that_o man_n that_o say_v any_o such_o word_n for_o suppose_v you_o find_v one_o author_n or_o two_o of_o we_o that_o say_v something_o different_a from_o the_o common_a opinion_n in_o this_o or_o that_o particular_a point_n of_o doctrine_n do_v he_o present_o say_v the_o protestant_a faith_n be_v safe_a for_o example_n one_o say_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n of_o itself_o give_v more_o gtace_n do_v he_o therefore_o say_v your_o faith_n be_v safe_a noe_o very_o but_o the_o same_o man_n do_v condemn_v your_o doctrine_n for_o most_o unsafe_a and_o dangerous_a and_o lead_v to_o the_o very_a pit_n of_o hell_n for_o even_o those_o thing_n which_o of_o themselves_o may_v perhaps_o seem_v indifferent_a your_o disobedience_n and_o spirit_n of_o contradiction_n make_v they_o damnable_a to_o eat_v be_v a_o thing_n indifferent_a but_o yet_o to_o eat_v with_o offence_n of_o our_o neighbour_n be_v ill_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v 14.20_o rom_n 14.20_o malum_fw-la est_fw-la homini_fw-la qui_fw-la manducat_fw-la per_fw-la offendiculum_fw-la it_o be_v ill_a for_o a_o man_n that_o eat_v by_o give_v offence_n and_o if_o the_o offend_a and_o scandalize_a of_o one_o of_o the_o little_a one_o which_o our_o saviour_n show_v speak_v of_o this_o matter_n of_o scandal_n be_v able_a to_o make_v a_o thing_n indifferent_a to_o become_v so_o ill_o how_o much_o more_o be_v scandalize_a of_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o rebellious_a stiffness_n able_a to_o make_v a_o thing_n otherwise_o indifferent_a or_o perhaps_o in_o some_o respect_n good_a to_o become_v not_o only_o ill_a but_o damnable_a but_o leave_v that_o i_o come_v to_o the_o point_n 2._o you_o prove_v the_o safety_n of_o your_o doctrine_n above_o we_o because_o bellarmine_n say_v of_o the_o scripture_n that_o it_o be_v a_o most_o certain_a and_o safe_a rule_n of_o believe_v and_o so_o also_o say_v we_o but_o what_o then_o wherein_o be_v your_o faith_n more_o safe_a than_o we_o we_o rely_v upon_o the_o same_o ground_n of_o safety_n as_o much_o and_o more_o than_o you_o how_o then_o be_v we_o less_o safe_a you_o say_v we_o rely_v upon_o the_o pope_n and_o church_n which_o be_v but_o the_o authority_n of_o man._n well_o grant_v for_o disputation_n sake_n it_o be_v but_o the_o authority_n of_o man_n if_o it_o be_v so_o that_o we_o do_v leave_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n &_o stick_v only_o to_o the_o pope_n and_o church_n it_o be_v somewhat_o than_o you_o may_v with_o some_o colour_n at_o least_o say_v your_o way_n be_v more_o safe_a but_o now_o that_o we_o acknowledge_v and_o reverence_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n as_o much_o nay_o much_o more_o than_o you_o and_o join_v therewith_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o pope_n and_o church_n for_o exposition_n of_o the_o same_o though_o it_o shall_v be_v but_o humane_a how_o do_v that_o diminish_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n or_o make_v it_o less_o safe_a a_o man_n in_o his_o right_a wit_n will_v think_v it_o will_v rather_o help_v then_o hinder_v but_o what_o if_o this_o authority_n be_v more_o than_o humane_a as_o indeed_o it_o be_v be_v we_o not_o then_o much_o more_o safe_a i_o say_v nothing_o of_o unwritten_a tradition_n which_o come_v not_o short_a for_o authority_n even_o of_o the_o write_a word_n itself_o and_o which_o in_o two_o resspect_n seem_v even_o to_o surpass_v it_o one_o respect_n be_v that_o tradition_n extend_v themselves_o to_o more_o thing_n than_o the_o write_a word_n and_o even_o to_o the_o authorise_a &_o expound_v of_o the_o same_o for_o by_o tradition_n we_o receive_v both_o the_o book_n of_o scripture_n &_o understand_v the_o sense_n thereof_o the_o other_o that_o they_o be_v less_o subject_n to_o the_o cut_a knife_n of_o haeretique_n which_o make_v they_o so_o mad_a at_o they_o for_o they_o can_v so_o corrupt_v they_o by_o put_v in_o and_o out_o at_o their_o pleasure_n as_o they_o can_v do_v the_o write_a word_n and_o this_o indeed_o seem_v the_o safe_a way_n in_o vincentius_n lerinensis_n his_o day_n for_o he_o be_v desirous_a to_o learn_v how_o he_o may_v discern_v catholic_a truth_n from_o haeretical_a falsehood_n receive_v this_o answer_n from_o every_o body_n as_o he_o say_v that_o if_o he_o will_v avoid_v the_o deceit_n and_o snare_n of_o haeretique_n and_o remain_v sound_a in_o faith_n he_o shall_v strengthen_v his_o faith_n two_o way_n to_o wit_n by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o divine_a law_n and_o then_o by_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n whereby_o you_o see_v the_o judgement_n of_o antiquity_n concern_v your_o safety_n and_o we_o 3._o again_o you_o say_v it_o be_v safe_a to_o adore_v christ_n sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o his_o father_n then_o to_o adore_v the_o sacramental_a bread_n i_o ask_v how_o you_o prove_v it_o for_o say_v i_o again_o it_o be_v as_o dangerous_a to_o deny_v adoration_n to_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o to_o christ_n in_o heaven_n for_o he_o be_v as_o sure_o in_o the_o sacrament_n as_o in_o heaven_n the_o same_o catholic_a faith_n teach_v we_o both_o veritye_n and_o to_o make_v you_o study_v a_o little_a i_o may_v say_v in_o some_o sort_n more_o sure_a for_o a_o man_n that_o will_v be_v contentious_a may_v deny_v christ_n to_o sit_v at_o the_o right_a hand_n of_o his_o father_n because_o his_o father_n have_v neither_o right_a nor_o left_a hand_n wherein_o for_o answer_v you_o must_v fall_v to_o expound_v the_o scripture_n and_o declare_v the_o meaning_n of_o that_o article_n which_o say_v it_o and_o therein_o you_o shall_v find_v as_o much_o to_o do_v as_o we_o do_v in_o expound_v the_o word_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_n meum_fw-la beside_o do_v not_o we_o adore_v he_o in_o heaven_n too_o as_o well_o as_o you_o how_o be_v you_o more_o safe_a than_o we_o yea_o but_o you_o will_v say_v that_o we_o adore_v he_o on_o the_o altar_n too_o it_o be_v true_a we_o do_v indeed_o and_o to_o suppose_v it_o doubtful_a for_o the_o present_a whether_o he_o be_v there_o or_o no_o i_o ask_v wherein_o be_v you_o more_o safe_a than_o we_o if_o he_o be_v not_o there_o we_o be_v in_o danger_n of_o adore_v he_o where_o he_o be_v not_o if_o he_o be_v there_o then_o be_v you_o in_o danger_n by_o not_o adore_v he_o where_o he_o be_v and_o it_o be_v as_o much_o danger_n not_o to_o adore_v he_o there_o if_o he_o be_v there_o as_o not_o to_o adore_v he_o in_o heaven_n wherein_o i_o say_v then_o be_v you_o more_o safe_a though_o there_o be_v no_o more_o certainty_n of_o belief_n on_o our_o side_n then_o you_o 4._o three_o you_o tell_v we_o out_o of_o s._n aug._n it_o be_v more_o safe_a to_o trust_v whole_o in_o god_n then_o partly_o in_o god_n partly_o in_o ourselves_o so_o we_o say_v also_o and_o so_o we_o do_v wherein_o then_o be_v you_o more_o or_o we_o less_o safe_a you_o say_v we_o trust_v in_o our_o good_a work_n it_o be_v true_a thus_o far_o that_o we_o teach_v that_o man_n by_o good_a work_n may_v cooperate_v to_o justification_n merit_v grace_n and_o glory_n but_o that_o be_v but_o conditional_o if_o a_o man_n do_v such_o good_a work_n but_o yet_o we_o be_v far_o from_o nourish_v your_o confidence_n which_o you_o speak_v of_o which_o be_v not_o ground_v so_o much_o in_o that_o general_a principle_n of_o good_a work_n as_o in_o the_o particular_a that_o i_o for_o example_n do_v these_o and_o these_o good_a work_n wherefore_o i_o say_v it_o be_v false_a in_o your_o sense_n for_o we_o do_v not_o teach_v any_o man_n to_o persuade_v himself_o that_o he_o be_v just_a and_o holy_a but_o teach_v he_o to_o fear_n and_o doubt_v himself_o continual_o and_o in_o all_o his_o work_n according_a to_o the_o example_n of_o job._n verebar_fw-la omne_fw-la opera_fw-la mea_fw-la i_o do_v fear_v all_o my_o work_n and_o if_o a_o man_n do_v good_a work_n we_o teach_v that_o he_o can_v be_v sure_a that_o they_o be_v good_a as_o they_o be_v do_v by_o he_o that_o be_v that_o he_o do_v they_o with_o such_o a_o right_a intention_n and_o by_o help_n of_o supernatural_a grace_n and_o that_o therefore_o no_o man_n can_v be_v sure_a of_o his_o own_o justification_n according_a to_o that_o alsoe_o of_o job._n 9.28_o job_n 9.28_o etsi_fw-la fuero_fw-la simplex_fw-la hoc_fw-la ipsum_fw-la ignorabit_fw-la anima_fw-la mea_fw-la although_o i_o shall_v be_v simple_a that_o be_v good_a the_o self_n same_o shall_v my_o soul_n be_v ignorant_a of_o 9.21_o job_n 9.21_o again_o we_o say_v
that_o suppose_v he_o do_v know_v they_o to_o be_v good_a yet_o they_o have_v not_o that_o goodness_n from_o he_o or_o as_o they_o be_v his_o but_o as_o they_o be_v from_o almighty_a god_n and_o by_o his_o grace_n and_o yet_o more_o we_o teach_v that_o he_o may_v fall_v again_o and_o loose_v all_o his_o labour_n which_o do_v exceed_o diminish_v confidence_n of_o a_o man_n self_n so_o as_o we_o leave_v nothing_o for_o a_o man_n to_o trust_v to_o of_o himself_o but_o that_o he_o must_v give_v all_o to_o god_n as_o s._n paul_n do_v in_o say_v 15.10_o 1._o cor._n 15.10_o non_fw-la ego_fw-la sed_fw-la gratia_fw-la dei_fw-la mecum_fw-la not_o i_o but_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n with_o i_o &_o qui_fw-la gloriatur_fw-la in_o domino_fw-la glorietur_fw-la that_o he_o that_o do_v glory_n may_v glory_v in_o god_n and_o to_o show_v that_o we_o have_v nothing_o of_o ourselves_o we_o say_v again_o with_o the_o same_o saint_n quid_fw-la habes_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la accepisti_fw-la what_o have_v thou_o which_o thou_o have_v not_o receive_v now_o on_o the_o other_o side_n examine_v you_o your_o own_o doctrine_n a_o little_a better_o and_o see_v whither_o it_o do_v not_o teach_v the_o contrary_a vain_a confidence_n in_o most_o of_o these_o point_n as_o that_o a_o man_n must_v assure_v himself_o that_o his_o sin_n be_v forgive_v that_o he_o must_v assure_v himself_o of_o his_o salvation_n that_o he_o can_v fall_v from_o grace_n and_o the_o like_a which_o ground_n suppose_v how_o can_v he_o work_v his_o salvation_n with_o fear_n &_o tremble_v as_o s._n peter_n teach_v and_o so_o we_o have_v answer_v 3._o point_n of_o safety_n which_o you_o begin_v withal_o out_o of_o your_o own_o invention_n now_o you_o come_v to_o other_o point_n of_o safety_n which_o you_o prove_v by_o authority_n of_o other_o man_n 5._o the_o first_o of_o these_o and_z fourth_z in_o order_n be_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n which_o you_o say_v be_v better_a than_o in_o one_o kind_n alone_o you_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o cassander_n vazq_n hales_n and_o valencia_n i_o answer_v that_o for_o cassander_n you_o know_v he_o be_v no_o author_n to_o be_v allege_v against_o a_o catholic_a for_o vazq_n it_o seem_v you_o be_v not_o so_o well_o skill_v in_o he_o as_o to_o cite_v he_o out_o of_o his_o own_o work_n but_o out_o of_o the_o french_a minister_n chamier_n who_o be_v another_o great_a man_n with_o you_o but_o for_o the_o matter_n it_o be_v true_a some_o few_o catholic_n as_o vazq_n hales_n 3._o p._n 4._o q._n 11._o m._n 2._o be_v 4._o §_o 3._o for_o valencia_n i_o shall_v tell_v you_o more_o anon_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o it_o be_v of_o great_a merit_n and_o fruit_n to_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n then_o in_o one_o but_o i_o ask_v you_o why_o it_o shall_v be_v more_o safe_a to_o follow_v those_o two_o then_o 10._o 20._o 30._o or_o 40._o other_o divine_n to_o the_o contrary_n for_o my_o part_n i_o do_v not_o see_v any_o reason_n for_o it_o if_o you_o weigh_v the_o matter_n by_o reason_n or_o by_o number_n and_o authority_n of_o doctor_n second_o neither_o of_o these_o two_o do_v acknowledge_v any_o danger_n in_o our_o practice_n of_o one_o kind_n but_o allow_v it_o for_o good_a and_o lawful_a for_o so_o say_v hales_n quia_fw-la christus_fw-la integrè_fw-la sumitur_fw-la sub_fw-la utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la bene_fw-la licet_fw-la sumere_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la sub_fw-la specie_fw-la panis_fw-la tantum_fw-la sicut_fw-la fere_n ubique_fw-la fit_v a_o laicis_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la because_o christ_n be_v receive_v entire_o under_o each_o kind_n it_o be_v very_o lawful_a to_o receive_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n under_o the_o kind_n of_o bread_n only_o as_o it_o be_v use_v almost_o every_o where_n by_o the_o laity_n in_o the_o church_n and_o vazq_n employ_v a_o whole_a disputation_n in_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o same_o truth_n out_o of_o scripture_n and_o tradition_n show_v withal_o that_o the_o latin_a church_n do_v with_o very_o good_a reason_n forbid_v communion_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o solue_v all_o the_o argument_n of_o the_o haeretique_n against_o it_o so_o as_o he_o acknowledge_v not_o your_o doctrine_n to_o be_v either_o safe_a or_o the_o same_o with_o he_o but_o a_o clean_a different_a haeresy_n for_o he_o be_v a_o school_n opinion_n not_o of_o the_o safety_n but_o of_o the_o fruitfulness_n of_o communion_n in_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n you_o be_v a_o haeresy_n deny_v the_o sufficiency_n of_o one_o kind_n and_o urge_v both_o as_o a_o matter_n of_o necessity_n for_o the_o integrity_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o fulfil_v of_o christ_n precept_n and_o deny_v also_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n for_o dispense_n therein_o and_o though_o in_o speculation_n vazq_n rather_o allow_v both_o kind_n to_o be_v more_o fruitful_a yet_o all_o circumstance_n consider_v he_o deem_v communion_n in_o one_o kind_n absolute_o better_a for_o many_o great_a reason_n pertain_v to_o the_o reverence_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o common_a good_a which_o do_v not_o only_o countervail_v but_o far_o surpass_v the_o want_n of_o that_o fruit_n which_o be_v give_v more_o by_o the_o other_o kind_n all_o necessary_a grace_n be_v give_v by_o one_o alone_a as_o he_o teach_v and_o for_o hales_n beside_o that_o he_o hold_v it_o very_o lawful_a to_o communicate_v in_o one_o kind_n only_o which_o be_v direct_o against_o you_o i_o think_v a_o man_n that_o will_v go_v about_o it_o may_v easy_o puzzle_v you_o out_o of_o he_o even_o for_o so_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o perfection_n of_o the_o spiritual_a fruit_n 1._o p._n 4._o q._n 10._o m._n 3._o be_v 1._o for_o thus_o he_o say_v to_o that_o which_o be_v say_v that_o he_o that_o receive_v under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n only_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n perfect_o and_o entire_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o sacrament_n be_v receive_v two_o way_n spiritual_o and_o sacramenta_o wherefore_o i_o say_v that_o quantum_fw-la ad_fw-la spiritualem_fw-la sumptionem_fw-la perfectè_fw-la accipit_fw-la for_o as_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o the_o spiritual_a receive_n he_o receive_v it_o perfect_o but_o not_o so_o for_o the_o sacramental_a receive_n now_o this_o perfection_n of_o a_o sacrament_n he_o explicate_v before_o to_o consist_v in_o the_o representation_n which_o say_v he_o be_v not_o so_o perfect_a in_o one_o kind_n as_o both_o which_o we_o also_o grant_v though_o we_o say_v the_o fruit_n to_o be_v the_o same_o in_o one_o and_o both_o kind_n see_v sir_n humphrey_n how_o you_o can_v get_v out_o of_o this_o brake_n now_o for_o valencia_n your_o three_o author_n who_o you_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n say_v that_o he_o affirm_v the_o same_o to_o wit_n with_o hales_n and_o vazq_n let_v any_o man_n see_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o play_v he_o a_o lindy-tricke_n for_o these_o be_v his_o word_n in_o the_o very_a same_o chapter_n by_o you_o cite_v 6._o val_n de_fw-fr leg_n us._n euchar._n cap._n 6._o hoc_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la tam_fw-la est_fw-la per_fw-la se_fw-la fructuosum_fw-la &_o efficax_n in_o altera_fw-la specie_fw-la quam_fw-la in_o utraque_fw-la specie_fw-la this_o sacrament_n be_v of_o itself_o as_o fruitful_a and_o effectual_a in_o one_o kind_n as_o in_o both_o and_o so_o your_o doctrine_n in_o this_o point_n be_v as_o safe_a and_o comfortable_a as_o your_o citation_n of_o this_o author_n be_v true_a 6._o the_o five_o of_o your_o safe_a and_o profitable_a point_n be_v of_o your_o communion_n of_o priest_n and_o people_n together_o the_o safety_n you_o prove_v not_o by_o any_o thing_n but_o your_o own_o bare_a word_n for_o the_o profitableness_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n indeed_o you_o prove_v it_o be_v more_o when_o the_o people_n communicate_v with_o the_o priest_n out_o of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n harding_n and_o bellarmine_n but_o sir_n that_o be_v not_o the_o controversy_n between_o you_o and_o uâ—_n but_o this_o whether_o the_o priest_n may_v not_o say_v mass_n unless_o he_o have_v some_o to_o communicate_v with_o he_o or_o even_o whether_o it_o be_v more_o profitableness_n for_o the_o priest_n that_o he_o have_v some_o to_o communicate_v with_o he_o or_o even_o whether_o the_o sacrifice_n be_v less_o perfect_a in_o itself_o in_o that_o case_n or_o not_o of_o this_o you_o say_v not_o a_o word_n as_o neither_o do_v your_o author_n which_o you_o bring_v for_o they_o speak_v only_o of_o the_o fruit_n which_o will_v redound_v to_o the_o people_n which_o we_o grant_v to_o be_v great_a when_o they_o communicate_v with_o the_o priest_n then_o when_o not_o but_o of_o the_o form_n or_o matter_n of_o controversy_n they_o all_o determine_v absolute_o against_o you_o their_o whole_a drift_n in_o those_o place_n be_v none_o other_o but_o to_o disprove_v you_o as_o may_v easy_o appear_v to_o any_o man_n that_o will_v look_v in_o they_o and_o i_o have_v partly_o show_v before_o