they be As for other thinges without that compasse we refuse not such trials as are 〈◊〉 for them also But he sayeth This is a shifte common to all 〈◊〉 suche as Maister Charke is And the cause thereof Augustine doth testifie of the Heretikes of his time But first he should haue prooued vs Heretikes and then haue giuen vs that name August testifieth truely that al Heretikes abuse the letter of the Scriptures as doe the Papistes Anabaptists Familie of loue and such others But is not this a good 〈◊〉 Heretikes catche at the letter and wordes of the Scriptures to mainteine their errors Ergo the scriptures are not the touch stone to try al spirits by yea but 〈◊〉 are other thinges to trie the meaning of the scriptures by what are they Forsooth the sense of the Churche Of what churche Forsooth of that Synagogue of Rome of her Doctours of her generall councelles and such like conspiracies and I cannot tell what As though the scripture written by Gods spirite shoulde bee expounded by the spirites of men and of such Erroneous men as from time to time by the scriptures haue been founde to 〈◊〉 the sonne of God as though there should bee vncertaintie in GOD and certaintie in these men Emptinesse in 〈◊〉 writings of the Apostles and 〈◊〉 in their balde and absurde 〈◊〉 especially when they haue deliuered That the Scriptures are to be fitted to the tyme and to be vnderstood 〈◊〉 so that at one time they are to be expounded according to the vniuersal currant rite or ceremonie But if that ceremonie be changed then the sentence is to be changed Againe if the Churches iudgement be changed why then Gods iudgemēt is also changed Farther the scripture as touching the letter is not of the essēce of the church which may be vtterly destroyed by a Tyrant but it is the spirit that quickeneth 〈◊〉 Prierias Eckius Hogstratus holde that the Pope alone may determine all matters of faith and that the Pope may expounde the scripture as he wil. Habet authoritatem interpretandi sacram Scripturam authoritatinè pro suo sensu Therefore what may we hope for concerning the Synagogue of Rome that challengeth to be iudge ouer all seeyng it is prooued by the practise of it that sometime they interprete the scripture one waye and somtime another as afterwardes may appeare by their contradictory doctrines But here M Defender putteth downe three causes why these newe Teachers appeale 〈◊〉 to Scripture Wee must by the way endure 〈◊〉 names without anie proofe when it is euident that they are the newe Teachers and we the old teaching the same doctrine that Moses the Prophetes Christ his Apostles and all holie Martyrs haue taught and professed according to that worde 〈◊〉 the beginning of the world and they resisting it and persecuting it But what are these three Forsooth the first is to gette credite with the people The seconde because we woulde exclude Counselles Fathers and Auncetours of the Churche who from time to time haue declared the true sense of scripture vnto vs that wee might haue libertie and authoritie to make what meaning wee list and thereby giue colour to euerie fansie wee list to teache The thirde because wee woulde deliuer our selues from all ordinaunces or doctrines lefte vnto vs by the first pillers of Christe his Churche not expressely set downe c. For the first whether it bee a way to get credite to cleaue to the worde of GOD with the common people let them iudge that knowe howe contrarye it is to mans corruption onelye to relye vppon it Indeede it deserueth credite with all when they shall see that wee iustifie God in his woorde and forsake our owne testimonies and the testimonies of 〈◊〉 and blood 〈◊〉 who made him a God to knowe our purpose and to enter into our heartes We leaue it to all the worlde to iudge whether they hunt not more for the prayse of the 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 of men then we doe who like proude Pharisies doe whatsoeuer they doe to be seene of men and to be praysed of them And therefore bring the scriptures of God into captiuitie vnder men and vnder their interpretation to flatter them withall And so in other thinges they fast and praye openly at euery piller and euery streete they giue their almes like 〈◊〉 blase their vainglorious good woorkes to all men c which also sheweth the purpose of their heart For the second touching Councels Fathers 〈◊〉 c. Wee indeede exclude them from being eyther aboue or equall with the worde of God we make them not Iudges though some tymes in matters of storie to shewe the practise of the Churche wee admitte them for witnesses The 〈◊〉 is because Generall councelles haue erred and haue beene one agaynst another one Doctour agaynst another and diuers tymes against them selues The seconde Councell of Ephesus was agaynst the Councell of Chalcedon the one condemning and the other absoluing Eutiches The second of Nice 〈◊〉 that of Franckford about images The first of Nice and those of 〈◊〉 Mentz and of Carthage about the marriage of Ministers Those of Constance and Basill against those of Florence and Trent about your holy fathers vsurped Supremacy and so of diuers others Concerning Fathers and Doctors whether you meane the former or the later it is so also of them For if councels gathered together in the name of God hearing eche others reasons and debating matters for finding out of truth haue yet thus iarred to the end we should not rest vpon them as iudges but onelie vpon the Scriptures what are wee like to finde amōgst men yea amongst the eldest and what then amongest the latest If in the eldest as in Irenae the errour of the Chiliastes in Cyprian Anabaptisme in Tertullian the heresie of Montanus that there should come a new holie Ghost a new Prophesie also condemning seconde marriages and denying it to be lawful to flie in time of persecution In Origene in finite which Hierom writing to 〈◊〉 hath noted before vs and so in all the rest howe may wee bee iudged by them we speake not of those that you count errours but suche as are errours indeede both with you and vs. What shal we say then of Thomas and Scotus and your other schoole men foole men What shal wee say of your other late writers of your Popes of their Canons in al times It would fil a whole volume to declare al their errours and dissentions O But we cleaue to onely scripture that we might deliuer our selues from traditions which you call ordinaunces and doctrines of men and surely we haue also good cause so to do For as they are infinite variable so also they are impious and ridiculous neither fitte nor possible to be kept If any can be proued out of the word of God as deriued from those first pillers of his Church containing in
frō faith to works making them the cause of iustification breathing out his poysō with a sweet breath with sweete words couering his deadly venome Leuit. 20. Gen. 4. 1. Re. 22. 38. 3. Reg. 2. 37. Rom. 13. Iugdes 14. Mark this frūper at the phrase of the scripture As though if twenty had alledged one thing hee that alledged but ten or two had concealed the 〈◊〉 Reade 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Col. Censura Fol. 17 117. 220. Pet. a Soto contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Psal. 119 1. Pet. 2. Iohn 15. Luke 15. 1. Tim. 3. Collos. 2. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Mulus 〈◊〉 seabit * In the disputations the last day when it was agreed that both sides should stay tyll their 〈◊〉 were set down In the preface to the dispu The 〈◊〉 which the Papists at 〈◊〉 require before they 〈◊〉 dispute What cause they had may appear by their own stories by the cruell death they were put to So doth Staphi Ius Ficklerus the rest to bring those that were sound godly into 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 14. 32 〈◊〉 a Soto 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVittenb cap. de concilijs Alfonsus a Castro aduersus Heres lib. 1. cap. 8. Verractus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap. 24. c. 1. Cor. 〈◊〉 15. August 〈◊〉 de correctione 〈◊〉 cap. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Epi. cap. 3. Where knowledge and trial is to be sought August lib. 1. de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cap. 1. ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. 〈◊〉 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Our doctrine the same that the Prophets Christ and his Apostles haue taught Papists 〈◊〉 all things for the praise of men Mat. 6. Read all the Fathers this shalbe found true Councels against Councels Fathers against fathers Lib. 〈◊〉 Reade their workes who shal and they shal find in thē iudging thē by the Scriptures 〈◊〉 Illirie lib. de 〈◊〉 Papist Traditions infinite variable vnnecessary hurtful offensiue See their Pontificall their masse booke and such other good stuffe 〈◊〉 in 〈◊〉 Catechisme See the harmonie of the confessions of the Churches that cleare vs from this slaunder VVhē Luthers booke De captiuitate Babilonica was written King Henrie not the head of the Church as the Papistes vnderstand by head in their Antichrist Heretikes are to be cut off not such as they cal Heretikes but suche as they are thēselues who are proued to be Heretikes by Gods word This also he handleth afterwardes Concerning Luthers heat 〈◊〉 The 〈◊〉 of the Papists The papistes account that a fault in vs which they challenge them selues VVho vse grea ter libertie the Papists or we we that onelie keep our selues to the scripture or they that roue vp and downe are boūded within no lists or boundes Chrisost. in Ioh. bomil 16. 〈◊〉 3. in opere imperfecto Ioh. 10. 2. Pet. 1. 20. 2. Tim 3. 17. 〈◊〉 Ioh. 4. Testamente 〈◊〉 in the annotat vpon 1. Tim. cap. 2. Lut. Cortez in li. 3. distin 3. 〈◊〉 Aquin. Iohn de 〈◊〉 Cremata Iren aus lib. 1. Epiphanius August Read Tapperus Ficklerus the whole broode of them This may appeare through out S. August in many places They that denie the offices of Christ his kingdome priesthood prophetshippe they denie Christe Ephe. 4. For he meneth by Puritās not the Anabaptists spiritual illuminates but those that dutiefully seek the reformation of the Church 〈◊〉 Heb. 10. 11. c. Authoritie of the Pope vsurped The Masse an Idoll of the Popes making patched togeather by many long after Christes ascention 〈◊〉 7. 9 See there how trimly they alleadged interpreted the 〈◊〉 in defence of 〈◊〉 images Syricius The place 〈◊〉 of the 19. of 1. Tim. 4. 〈◊〉 Sozomenus So 〈◊〉 onius Tutelares dei Camp in Epist. set out by 〈◊〉 us In Paris a great 〈◊〉 against Iesuits and wheresoeuer they come where other such vermine are like vipers they gnaw out the bellies one of another Hier. in Epist. ad Eustochiū ad Rusticum Concil 〈◊〉 Concil 〈◊〉 Quest. 16. sub 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Guliel de sancto amore Nicolaus de Cle. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Real presence An. bros hb. 〈◊〉 Sacra cap. 〈◊〉 And. in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 11. Lib. de Sacra Lib. in Iob. 4. cap. 14. In 〈◊〉 22. This also he mētioneth afterward where looke for further answeare Vowes Psal. 76 Perfection in selling all Things spokē to singuler persons in respect not simply The place of Iames concerning Iustification 2. Cor. 9. Fathers Our owne writers Who is Caietane or Conturene against the whole Church Disputation Peter Martir first Latimer Ridley Cranmer at Oxeford in Queen Maries dayes Maister Philpot M. Elmer Haddon Cheney and the rest that disputed in the Cōuocatiō house 1553. Octob. 18. Reade M. Foxes booke of Acts and Monuments printed in 1570. fol. 1571. fol. 1579 in manie places Conference at VVestminster anno primo Regni Eliza. 〈◊〉 King 17. 4 Reade the spanish Inquisitiō Acts monuments of M. Foxe M. Cryspius historie in French of their martyrs and the last French history of the beginning grouth of the churches in Fraunce Popish writers 〈◊〉 agreed yet about the Canonical scriptures whiche are the bookes and matching their constitutions with Gods word 〈◊〉 20. cap. de libellis dist 19. cap. in Canonicis Agath dist 19. cap. Sic omnes Read August vpō this place and Hierome vpon 38. of Esay Ephe. 6. Gathered out of their 〈◊〉 Bibles Mat. 26. Luke 22. Luke 23. Rom. 8. Reed Rationale Diuinorū Gab. Biel Vaux his Catechism and there you shall see suche misteries fetched out of the scriptures as are pitifull to heare VVhy salte creame spitle are vsed why they haue lights at noone dayes why bels ringe not on good Friday but they vse wodden clappers and suche 〈◊〉 stuffe General 〈◊〉 Reade Onuphrius ioyned with Platina in his Epitom Doctors Consent in the truth allowed by vs. Vniuersalitie antiquitie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Catholique what it meaneth Howe wee are departed because they are gone from the truth 〈◊〉 Tim. 4. 1. Aug. con Epist. 〈◊〉 cap. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The 〈◊〉 worst great consent in 〈◊〉 In their 〈◊〉 Testament set out by the scho lers of 〈◊〉 ful of ridiculous 〈◊〉 1. Thes. 2. Ioh. 10. In his 〈◊〉 before his booke of images Diui. 17. 76. c. * Belarmi quest 5. in dicta scriptis Cocleus Hosius Pet. a 〈◊〉 Stapletonus 〈◊〉 7. lib. 2. cap. 12. saith that faith is not learned out of the scriptures Again that the holy ghost teacheth the church many things without thescripture Censu Colonien fol. 2 20. Andradi lib. 2 Concil Trident. Andradius in defen Conc. Tri. priest of Potiers of Later an in conc 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Papae Eccius Verractus Pighius de Hierarch The impietie of the papistes in interpreting the holy scriptures In antididagmate Colo. sol 17. The doctors corrupted and many bastarde writings vnder their names thrust vpon vs. Euseb. li. 3. 〈◊〉 38 Nicepb lib. 3. cap 18. Epipha 〈◊〉 1. to 2. beresis 38. 〈◊〉 in vita Clem 〈◊〉 Gennadi in catal
in the worlde They are therefore in deede those theeues of the Scriptures that Origene mentioneth that haue not right vnto them being not the Churche of God because they renounce obedience to the will of God and heare not his voice And thus much for this point The third thing you charge him with is that in his eleuenth Assertion hee should charge the Iesuites to holde that there bee many things more greeuous and more damnable then those that repugne the lawe of God and yet the lawe condemneth them not namely traditions mans lawes and precepts of the Church Here also you play with a fethar and woulde catche the winde in a net For you say the Iesuites doe teache the quite contrarie to wit that what souer is sin is condemned by the law of God which none but wicked men past shame can denie but you dare not say that whatsoeuer is contrary to the lawe of God is sinne least concupiscence which you defend and some haue not beene ashamed to maintaine as a vertue 〈◊〉 assuming that if God shoulde commaund the 〈◊〉 not to lust it were as if he should commaunde the Sun and Moone not to shine the fire not to 〈◊〉 muche like as Campion in the disputations at the Towre 〈◊〉 that it was a speciall vertue that beeing in the Queenes Iewell house and being suggested to steale did yet abstaine from it abusing that place of Saint Iames Blessed is hee that is tempted But say you whatsoeuer offendeth the lawe of God if it bee done wittingly and with consent of hearte for otherwise it offendeth not the lawe it is sinne whereby you establishe that whatsoeuer sinne is committed if he that committeth it knoweth it not to bee sinne or if hee doe not approue it by 〈◊〉 his seale of consent vnto it it is no sinne And heere also you shut out originall sinne in infants who are notwithstanding sinners by reason of their corrupt nature that is in them and subiect to condemnation without Christe But if Gods lawe bee a perfect lawe that reacheth not only to the outwarde man but to the inwarde and to the very thoughts of man and therefore your venial sinnes whereof you make no accounte and teach that in respect of themselues we need not to repent of them but as they make way to daunger if those I say bee called sinnes for that they are against the lawe of God it must needes bee that they which are committed against the first table though they bee onely conceaued by lust though the hearte and will haue not subscribed yet they are to bee condemned This is but a ciuill righteousnesse before men but cannot stande before God whose lawe is plaine Cursed is 〈◊〉 one that abideth not in all thinges which are written in the booke of the lawe to doe them Whatsoeuer therefore resisteth the lawe of God in it selfe and by nature it deserueth the curse of God But sinne in it selfe and in it owne nature kindleth the wrath of God in him that transgresseth in one there is giltinesse in all and the 〈◊〉 of the least iote of Gods lawe setteth a man giltie before God in all And what a beastly shame is this in all your Iebusiticall sort that dare to lessen the breach of the lawe of God and will aggrauate the transgression of such traditions as your selues deuise vnto your selues vnder the name of the traditions of Christe and his Apostles But how shall wee knowe them so to be either they muste bee written or vn written If they be written shew vs the word if they be vn written and haue been deliuered from hand to hand let vs see howe they agree with the written tradition which is called the doctrine of the Apostles But if we can shew you when they were hatched who were the deuisers of them that they are against the puritie of Christs doctrine seruing neither for comelinesse nor edification being besides impious in them selues because you aduaunce them in equalitie with 〈◊〉 commaundements of God 〈◊〉 aboue them then M. Hanmer hath iustly collected both in this and other poyntes noted also by other learned 〈◊〉 before him that you make those sinnes which the law of God hath made no sinnes and whiche the lawe hath condemned for sinnes those you make vertues But say you if they be traditions or precepts of the church then the breach thereof as also of our superiors commaundementes are offences against men but yet consequently also against God for he hath commaunded men to obey their superiors which rule them and foole wisely that they must doe it of conscience as Saynt Paule proueth Rom. 13. But here first we denie that they are preceptes of the Churche for though you boast the church of Rome to be the Churche of Christe 〈◊〉 that is the question and we haue and doe still for good causes denie it But to giue you somewhat to plaie withall admitte it were yet wee saye that the church may commaund nothing either contrarie or besides the worde of God If it doe we are not to obey it The place of the Apostle is euen vnderstood of you as all the rest of the scriptures are which you 〈◊〉 to your owne destruction and yet your new Maisters of Rhemes tell vs that this place is to be vnderstood of remporall rulers which you wil haue to be vnderstoode of the Churche And though Chrisostome and others shew you that whether hee bee a Bishoppe or of any other calling yet he must be subiect you wil not be subiect to your naturall princes no not in thinges concerning God that are commanded according to his worde but to mainteine a forreigne 〈◊〉 tyrannie in a countrey and church where he hath nothing to doe You care not what treasons you committe that you may yet haue the name of Martyres and may be chronacled in his Chronicles and haue your names in his Kalenders Of the traditions commaundements of the churche whiche without the promise commandement of God you faine to be necessarie to saluation reade before The fourth falshood you charge him with is that hee saith That the Iesuites say that there is no other iustification then the seeking or searching of righteousnesse or to speake philosophically a motion vnto righteousnesse This you say is follie besides malice shewing that hee knoweth not what he speaketh himselfe and therefore out of Canisius you set downe another description as though the other had bin sucked out of his owne fingers But it is playne what soeuer Canisius say that Censura Celoniensis hath the same words Dialogo 〈◊〉 in the very beginning sol 141. and this they say is the Catholike doctrine that is the doctrine of the papists of whom I coulde aduouch a number besides if I studied not to be short The 〈◊〉 charge is gathered out of the 19. and twentieth assertions first that the Iesuites holde a twofold iustification whiche you confesse to be true and therfore needed
you say it is such a 〈◊〉 as hee made in the Tower surely both this and that in the Tower thankes bee to God were so twisted as your greatest Gordian could not otherwise vndoe them but by a plaine hacking them asunder as also you doe now As for Campions conclusion at Tyburne it followed rightly of those premises where into hee was entred For beeing a traytour hee receiued the rewarde of a Traitour and so did the rest that suffered and I beseeche God that such conclusions may followe to all the sort of you that shall enter into the like practizes For it is meeter that they dispute with the gallowes then with their pretended disputations to bring the truth into doubt to disquiet the state and to practise the ouerthrowe and destruction both of the Churche and common wealth But you aske what there is in this illation that can prooue the Iesuites a secte if all were graunted That they vow to preache heerein you say they doe but as the Apostles did that they did it of free coast why hee may bee ashamed to finde faulte with that seeing Christ commanded it As for whipping and tormenting themselues why Paule chastized his owne bodie hee carried the brands of Christe in his flesh and there is much talk in the scriptures of mortifiyng the flesh Surely all these doe proue them no table sectaries as like the Circumcelions as can bee and shewe most liuely vnto vs howe wickedly you peruert the scriptures to your owne damnation For will you make that commandement giuē to the Apostles stretch to the maintenance of a gadding ministerie in al places for al posteries in your order of Iesuits which yet is not reckoned amongest any the Ministers of Christe Was the office of the Apostles temporall their extraordinarie giftes ceasing their office of Apostleship also ceasing because they must bee called immediately of God bee conuersant with Christe and seehim in the fleshe whose ministerie was the wide worlde without all limitation as appeareth by the same commandement that you alleadge What bussarde but a Papist or an 〈◊〉 woulde euer alledge the scriptures so The Apostles forsooth vowed to preache Therfore Iesuites that are no Apostles haue no office place or calling in the Church they must vowe to preach The Apostles were commaunded to preach euerie where and of free coast as you say therefore the Iesuites will become newe Apostles and they will preache euery where and gad vp and downe of free cost And yet further as these argumentes are false so these scriptures whereupon they are grounded are wrested For where can they proue that the Apostles vowed to preache seeing preaching was layde vpon them of necessitie and was not voluntarie as they 〈◊〉 Againe how can they out of these proue that they must preach begging seeing they make nothing against the taking possessing of those things that are necessarie for Christe in the same places teacheth that the labourer is worthie his rewarde and themselues expound it that preachers may not carefully seeke after the superfluities of this life or any thing which may bee an impediment to their function But for necessaries they deserue them at their hands for whom they labour spiritually yea the Iesuites thēselues vnder this colour of free cost receiue double the value of the stipends of painful godly pastours whereas in deed they haue no right so to doe hauing no ordinarie calling in the Church of God As for the chastising that Paul vsed it was such as was inioyned and is necessarie for all Christians Mortification of the corruption of olde Adam is taught ought to be put in practise to the humbling of all to bring that vnder the obedience of Christ. This maketh nothing against that cherishing maintenānce of our 〈◊〉 which is meet to be done in sobrietie Paul speaketh therfore of taming the corruption of the fleshe would not haue men to hate their flesh It is written in the law of nature that no mā hateth his owne flesh but rather cherisheth nourisheth it For this is the reason of the commandement That hushands should loue their own wiues because they are one flesh with thē He meneth 〈◊〉 not that outward exercise of the body which bringeth little profit but the inwarde Moreouer the markes of Christ that S. Paule carried in his body were the 〈◊〉 of his stripes laid vpon him by persecutors and tyrants and such you were wont to lay vpon vs. But what maketh all these to proue whipping of your selues The examples of Iohn and of those holy men mentioned in the 11. to the Hebrewes proue no such matter the example of Baals Priestes that launced themselues would haue proued it better The one was extraordinarie in Iohn the greatest though the last amōgst the Prophets the other 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that holy men indured laid vpon them not by themselues but by others whē either they must haue forsaken God or els haue lost their liues As for Marcus Marulus whē wee get his booke and reade it wee will then tell you more of it but 〈◊〉 it bee of your religion wee perswade our selues that there is no greate 〈◊〉 or foundnesse in it But if whipping cheere be such a good cooling to your flesh eyther your Popish Votaries vse it not or els it hath not that effecte For in truth all the worlde 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and wicked 〈◊〉 belike they lay not on harde enough If it bee so good a remedie why doe you not vse it oftener Why do you not suffer others to lay you on that wil pay you more surely then your own partiall hands Certainely if you had done it in good earnest your kingdō wold not for shame haue stood so for the stewes as it hath done nor for the maintenāce of simple fornication to bee no sin neither woulde your monsters haue written in the praise of Sodomitree and haue been found so filthie in all their wayes as they haue beene Concerning Hieroms practise and others punishing their owne bodies so immoderately wee giue them no farther credite therein to folow their example then wee finde them warranted by the word of God Our liues are not our owne no more then our bodies are and therefore wee must cherishe them by those meanes that God hath appointed No man hath hated his owne fleshe but cherisheth it This is written in the lawe of nature which is the lawe of God Mortification respecteth the killing of the corruption of the olde manne it teacheth vs not to kill our bodies yee may aswell say you will pine your selues hang and draw your selues cut and slash your selues as whip your selues As for your 〈◊〉 and ruffianlike speech calling him runnagate Fryer as also you do Luther whiche I maruell considering it is an abasing of your owne order it is a fit couer for such a cuppe And yet I thinke you faile in your quotation For Peter Martyr neuer wrote vpon the thirde booke of
reason of his high place gay apparrell great wordes assistance of friendes c. It is but a stale lying 〈◊〉 to fill vp the booke for 〈◊〉 man is sufficiently knowen to stand vpon none of these things If God strengthened his ministerie to daunt suche an aduersarie which is the thing that most stingeth you wee praise God for it Whether his dealing be false or true for which by your assignement hee may weare the garland hee will sufficiently declare in his answere Hee is olde enough to answere for himselfe and when these examples come wee shall consider of them I loue not to bring sod Colewortes twise that is a propertie belonging to the papists and fittest for them that will receiue no answere That question allo concerning concupiscence which is the greatest bulk of your booke shal at this time be omitted of mee as being often handeled in other places As for his other trickes which you say proceed not of negligence simplicitie or ignorance but must needes bee of set malice as for example the repeating of diuers vntruths out of Gotuisus concerning the lesuites you say in the first booke hee concealed the authours name whiche is most false For he nameth him often in that booke Now you say necessitie compelling him he confesseth Wherein you discredite your selfe and bring credite to him that hee doth not conceale them but yet you say finding in his owne conscience the things to bee false which he reporteth whereas his authour citeth alwayes two bookes Censura Coloniensis and Canisius great Catechisme he citeth but one and that not to bee had which is another lye and omitteth the other whiche sheweth the falshood both of M. Chark and of his authour Yea which is more when Gotuisus did not belie the Iesuites sufficiently M. Charke without blushing will falsifie his wordes to make them more odious Is not heere a merueilous long threed drawen out of a little flaxe and no bottome What a fine spinster is this that can make so much of a little of concealing the one and aduouching the other As though men were alwayes bounde to alleadge all and in the very wordes of their authours also might not choose amongest store which to alleadge or as though one authour were not to be cited vpon the credit of another but all the rest must bee discredited whye doeth not sir Robert confute Gotuisus and so make way to confute master Charke But as he vseth in other thinges so in this hee leapeth ouer hilles and dales and when hee shoulde ouercome the formost he striketh at the the hindmost and when hee cannot touche the hearte hee hitteth the heele But what are the matters forsooth that Gotuisus saith the Iesuites holde The Scripture is as it were a nose of waxe and master Charke saith theyr wordes are the Scriptures are a nose of waxe What els O infinite such things in the treatise whiche sheweth master Chark to bee a man of no sinceritie Is not heere wonderfull a doe about nothing But I pray you what difference is there doth not hee say that the scripture is a nose of waxe that saith it is as a nose of waxe that may bee turned and wrested which way a man will Is not their doctrine generall to derogate from the authoritie of the scripture that it is a dead letter a matter of strife dark maymed vncertaine a nose of waxe a leaden rule a lesbeian building an occasion of all heresies which comprehendeth not all thinges necessary to saluation Is not this doctrine as full in abhomination as that allegation And therefore Cardinall Hosius worse then any Anabaptist saith That it is a vaine labour that is bestowed vppon the Scripture whiche is bestowed as vppon a dead and beggerly element that rather wee must looke for voyces from heauen that must instructe vs. This is the foundation of all their vnwritten verities of man his traditious which they preferre before the worde of God because as Andradius saith It often times commeth to passe that hee is wrapped in a greater wickednesse that breaketh the Ecclesiasticall traditions then those that are Goddes adding that example of the Sacrament in one kinde c. And yet who knoweth not that the holy Scripture commendeth the Scripture vnto vs as a light shining in a darke place vntill the day breake foorth And Christe himselfe though they woulde haue vs to shunne them 〈◊〉 vs to search them as those that witnesse vnto his both his nature and his will Abraham also signifieth to the ritche man that was in hell that his brethren were to bee taught out of Moses and the 〈◊〉 to the ende they might bee deliuered and obtaine euerlasting saluation So Paule affirmeth to Timothie that all Scripture is inspired from aboue and comprehendeth all thinges necessarie to the perfection of saluation Nowe hee wrote this Epistle when in a manner all the Apostolicall writings were committed to writing as may appeare out of the fourth Chapter And concerning your traditions Christ saith They worship me in vaine with the precepts of men and Paul plainely condemneth that will worship in the second to the Collossians For his behauiour towards Campion in the Tower whome you so highly aduaunce for singuler learning those that were present can tell the vanitie of this accusation Hee gaue him no vncomely wordes but such as became both his owne person and his to whom he spake The one being a godly man standing for the truth and the other an enemie traitour both against god and it There was not any one word vttered of barbarous threat onely hee might when hee was insolent bee put in minde of his place and condition Of the like vanitie is it that you tell of his turning and speaking to the people that they shoulde prayse God for his good argument and of shutting the dores to keepe the people in to heare his prayer Hee might perhaps now and then as reason was admonish the people to beware of suche a runnagate Fryer who hauing challenged our whole churche shewed himselfe so insufficient to maintaine his owne cause As for hatred in his hart putting it in execution it is too malitious to be suspected of master Charke or any such of his profession You are the blood suckers the malicious men whose furie could neuer yet be otherwise quéched then with the effusion of christian blood If I lye thē let all the places and countries where euer you ruled witnes against mee If master Charke had had such malice as you say yet how could hee put it in execution being a priuate man To whome did he euer complaine What inditement did hee euer drawe or cause to bee drawne against him Where did he euer goe or intermeddle in any these matters but when and wherein hee was called But you may lye by authoritie For here are no lesse then fiue together one that he dealt inciuilie Another that hee commended his argument
is to denie all Fathers Doctours Councelles histories examples Presidents customes 〈◊〉 and prescriptions and to make our selues Iudges ouer them Yea it is to denie the Bookes of Scripture them selues and the sense reseruing all interpretation to our selues But what is this els but to begge that which is in question To charge vs with that whiche your selues vsurpe and put in continual practise And howe is this to denye the bookes of Scripture when wee staye onelie vppon the Scripture And howe is this to denie the sense of the Scripture when wee staye vppon that interpretation of the scripture whiche is by scripture whiche is not priuate of or by any man but from the holye Ghost And is this to denie Councelles Fathers Doctours Hystories and Examples c When wee reade them consider of them thanke GOD for the lighte and helpes they yeelde to vs by these giftes God hath giuen them yet alwayes trying them and all things by the onely touchstone which is the scripture Is this that Iesuiticall Logicke that will make vp the mouth of Poperie against whiche no man shall dare to wagge Surelie it is peeuishe it is foolishe Yea but Catholikes though they giue soueraigntie in all thinges to it yet they bynde them selues also to other thinges besides Verie well that is to saye though the scriptures be chiefe yet they set other thinges equall with them And what other thinges bee they If they bee of men Why then it must followe that you matche the thinges of men with GOD you make earth equal with heauen the wisedome of the 〈◊〉 you couple to the wisedome of the spirite And this is one of your chiefest Abhominations your wittes are vnhappie enough to abuse the truth But 〈◊〉 whether they haue more libertie to roaue abroade that haue the wyde worlde to wander in or they that are sh ut vp in a parlar Whether are they looser to choppe and chaunge affirme and denie allowe and mislike that rest in the Scriptures or they that wil wander in euerye wildernesse of mens deuises customes prescriptions and I cannot tell what Indeede I know that the word of God is larger then al the world and he is at greater libertie that is bound vnto it then he that wandreth after men and yet we acknowledge Gods giftes in men and when the fathers speake as the worde we acknowledge the worde in them and reuerence them for the wordes sake But if they speake as Chrisostome sayth With the voyce of a stranger then we cannot hearken vnto them We know the voyce of Christ but not the voyce of a stranger And al that are Christes doe alwayes speake in Christes voyce and if this exception be to be taken of them that are Christes How should we except against them that haue plainely prooued themselues to be none of Christes You may therefore put vp your pipes concerning those whom by supposition you cal Heretikes but yet could neuer proue them so to be for standing only to the Scripture As for the interpretation of the Scripture it is from the Authour of the Scripture not from mens writings but from the Scriptures themselues which are not of any priuate interpretation as the Apostle saith Maister Charke chanteth therefore worthilie as a good Musition vpon this special point treading the path of al faithful Christians before him in keeping himselfe fast to the Scriptures and you like a rouing Heretike followe the pathes of your forefathers that dare not be tried by that rule of righteousnesse but followe your owne sinneful deuise and as you are a corrupt flesh flie so you feede vpon the corruptions and soares of men because you loue that which is moste agreeable to your corrupt nature That Spirites must be tried you confesse but that full and 〈◊〉 rule out of the Apostle vexeth you to the heart and howsoeuer you raue at it bringing in a diuersity of interpretations to set them at oddes with M. Charkes as that the auncient fathers interpreted it of the Iewes and against Ebion and Cerinthus that denied the Godhead of Christ and 〈◊〉 his comming in the flesh and rather against M. Charke and his fellowes yet it wil sit neerer your skirts then that you can so easily remoue it For albeit it be nothing to the purpose if you shoulde bring twenty diuers interpretations of sundry to preiudice the true meaning gathered naturally out of the circumstances of the text yet what letteth that interpretation of the Doctors that it should not bee also applyed to you For Christe is resisted by some one way and by some another As the Iewes therefore Ebion and Cerinthus denied Christe dissolued Iesus that I may vse your owne worde so doe you in truth though you confesse him with your mouthes For of him with the Iewes you denie him to bee a sole sufficient and onely Sauiour You destroy his true humanitie and crucifie him continually as they did You stand vpon former priuiledges pretend a personall succession and fathers euen as they did when yet they crucified the Lord of glory for which act you praise them and teache they had sinned deadly if they had not done it Euen as the Ebionites also taught that faith was not only sufficient to saluation but that the keeping of the lawe must bee ioyned with it so doe you Againe you holde with them that Christe was not before the Virgin Mary What heresie is there in the worlde that you doe not communicate withall in one poynt or other I haue shewed it largely in another place and therefore meane not no we to stand vpon it With the Valentinians you haue deuised an infinite number of Goddes As the Collyridians sacrificed to the virgin Mary and worshipped her so doe you As the Angelists gaue diuine honour to the angels so doe you As Montanus deuisyd lawes for fasting and dissolued Matrimonie so do you As the Tatians Eucratians and Manichees cryed out that mariage was a carnall kinde of life and forbade it to those that woulde bee perfect so doe you As the Pellagians denied concupiscence of it selfe without consent to bee sinne and ascribed to the naturall powers strength to doe spirituall thinges and affirmed that a man is saued by keepyng the lawe so doe you and it is the greatest matter handeled in this booke Master Charkes good grace therefore in interpreting that place of Iohn cannot bee so easily wyped away For if Christ must bee confessed as hee must in deede then the controuersie is not of the confession of his name in bare wordes and with the mouth only but of his power of his offices that is to say of his prophetship of his kingdome and of his priesthood acknowledged also from the hearte And though all the papists in the worlde sweare that they allowe these in Christe and answeare the matter with a 〈◊〉 flam that they allowe Prophetes teache kinges to raigne vnder
them to honestie not to villanie as it is too euident they did when scarse amongest a number fewe escaped from their filthie abuse by which they were defloured many bastardes begotten and murthered many buggeries con tinually committed against the worde of God As for the Arrians Saint Augustine had good cause disputing against them that abused the scripture in that same sacred misterie of the Trinitie to stande vpon that liuely tradition of the Apostles which is no suche thing as you intende by tradidion contrary to the written word of God but the same was receiued from hande to hand agreed with the doctrine of Christe and his Apostles written and set downe to all posteritie In this respect that misterie of beleeuing in the father the sonne and the holy Ghoste was so called in the councell of Constantinople by Tertullian and Basill and of such like speaketh the Apostle when hee saith Holde fast those traditions which you haue receiued eyther by our worde or by our Epistle In this respect Augustine disputing against Maximinus an heretike appealeth to the tradition of the Apostles But what serueth this to maintaine your false named traditions vnder the name of the Apostles that are but byrdes hatched yesterday yet calow and scarse couered with feathers as vnlike those whom you woulde make their dammes as your selues are who in all thinges are degenerated from them Of like consequence for proofe of your Masse Altars Chalices Chrisme and Priestes vestiments is that you set downe as you say noted by Optatus before Augustine Surely the place by you alleadged serueth as little to your helpe as the other Wee denie not but that in the waste made by those barbarous Vandalles There was great spoyle in the iust iudgemente of God brought vpon the churche all kinde of learning ceasing almost and the monuments thereof being vtterly decayed which one of your great pillers master Harding saith was because of their schisme from the church of Rome which was neither so nor so in which yet Rome it selfe was taken possessed and 〈◊〉 by sundrie men aboue 6. times in a small space But would you hereby insinuate your Idolatrous Masse which then had not halfe the Idolatrous patches that since haue been added woulde you insinuate your chalices which then were no otherwise knowen and taken then as cuppes fit for that seruice woulde you insinuate your aulters of stone that tooke their first beginning from Pope Sixtus as both Uolateran Vernerius testifie For as in Christs time there were not many temples builded so there were not many alters erected and therefore in Origens time it was obiected by Celsus that they had neither images nor aulters nor temples and so Arnobius sayth that the Heathen cast this likewise in their teeth whereby it appeareth that in their times the church was not acquainted with your prophanations In deede the name of Masse of latter times hath been vsed but it sheweth not that it was vsed then or that it was yours wherof they spake I mean your priuat Masse no it was the communion and according to that they had tables of wood and no aulters They might sometime call the communion tables by the name of aulters as also some other things by those names that you yet retaine but this was by Metaphor and as a man would say improperly rather for the receiued maner of speech of the auncient worship instituted vnder the lawe before the comming of Christe whilest sacrifices endured then now to prooue such a blasphemous sacrifice or aulter as yours is For Siluester the first as some of you write though falsly was he that commanded that none shoulde consecrate at a woodden aulter and Bonifacius was he that first deuided the priest from the people And S. Augustine complaineth that the Donatistes on a time in great rage brake the boords of the aulter and wounded the priestes And that they were made of wood and stoode in the middest of the Church c. It may appeare by this that hee saith it was the subdeacons office to remoue the table which he could not haue done if either it had beene of stone or fast fixed against any wall Eastward as your superstitious maner is And is this your burning charitie to compare vs with those barbarous heretikes the Donatists or those Vandals being in deede Arrians as all the rest were that made suche hauocke not onely of the Churche of Rome but of the Churches in Affricke of Antioche of Hippo where Augustine was and sundrie others These were madde against the truth and we stand for it It is not we that trouble Israell but Achab and his fathers house Is it all one to rage againste the people of God to execute Gods sentence vpon Baals priests For with as good right Baals priestes might haue blamed Helias and Helizeus Iehu and such godly princes for destroying their aulters ouerthrowing their temples shedding their blood as you blame and charge vs. The difference is plaine they were Donatistes and Arrians wee Christians they like sauage and brutish Boares brake in vpon the Lords inheritance we labour to keepe out such Boars Wolues and beastes as you are and haue proued your selues to bee The same may bee saide of that obiected by Basill against Iulian the 〈◊〉 his fellowes You are the Iulians and wee those whome you persecute in Christe in his members But for qualities we shall say more hereafter For your contentednesse to admit now what soeuer triall wee will for the finding out of your spirites surely wee cannot but congratulate your kindenesse But is this the opinion of all your fellowes or of yourselfe alone If of all then let vs see their handes authentikclie vppon recorde deliuered vnto vs. Once wee are sure of this that it is against their generall doctrine as hath beene saide before If it bee or your selfe that I may vse your owne phrase you are somewhat too cockishe against the common opinion of your Church to offer so franckly and yet as you saide to M. Hanmer I thinke when it shall come to triall you shall be none of the disputers As for that you write that you are not daunted For that Campion and Sherwinn that were foreward that way are taken away by death surely we thinke so If the tryall of your cause had depended vppon them then your religion had falne with their treason And thankes be to God howe harde soeuer your heartes bee yet you haue and had cause to feare seeing vnder pretence of Disputation they were prooued to practise 〈◊〉 and to establish an Antichristian iurisdiction against the crowne dignitie and peace of our Soueraigne Queene and Princesse I giue you warning therefore before Looke ere you leape for without doubt your religion and treason are so clasped and twined together that they will hardly bee sundered Woulde you dispute with vs who are to bee shunned Come you to
proud spirite condemning vs of choler impatience and heate if wee speake but plainely and yet swallowing vp in your selues the greatest sharpnesse and filth of speeche that may bee and namely againste suche whose shoe latchettes you are vnworthie to loose For what speeche is this to bee vsed to a reuerende learned man in deed to call him a pearte and cockishe merchaunt who in comparison of gifts trauaile and labour in the ministerie of the Gospel hath done more then any one or all the pack of them euer did for the maintenance of their own abhominable popery Againe hee playeth vpon another worde vsed by master Charke when hee saith and that truly that they haue nothing to vpholde theyr popishe religion and to defende it but lying tyrannie hypocrisie and rebellion Heere hee leaueth the very cause and looketh backe to his owne ayme and asketh where those 〈◊〉 and hypocrisie are As for tyrannie that hee returneth vpon vs because that iustice is executed vpon suche rebels and traytours as Campion and his companions were His parte had beene to haue cleared Poperie from this iust charge and to haue cast it vpon the Gospell As for that iustice whiche vndutifully and like himselfe hee calleth tyrannie because traytours are racked and quartered hee myght haue remembred that as well theyr executions against the like transgressours myght haue been called tyrannie But what their tyrannicall dealing hath beene in deede 〈◊〉 for and in regarde of religion while in so fewe monethes they not onely burned quicke but hanged drowned and killed more then haue beene executed amongest vs these many yeeres Let 〈◊〉 tyrannie witnesse in the Inquisition of Spayne in the murthers of Fraunce the blooddie slaughters procured by their meanes in Flaunders and all the dominions and kingdomes els where in the worlde where Antichriste their Pope hath had any dominion As for his gentle admonitiō to vs whō in contempt he calleth Ministers wherein hee doth so friendly aduise vs for our good to confesse our fcare in plaine wordes wee will consider of that at further leasure In the meane time if hee finde vs 〈◊〉 away and leaue our places emptie let him hardly possesse them keepe thē if hee can and if he and all the rest of thē as many as shal write dispute or contend for their Maozim and false religion shall finde vs too fewe to match them or too weake to answere them yet let them not fat their heartes in their sinne crie out a victorie against God and against his truth who is Almightie and which standeth fast and shall in the ende preuaile against all their cursed treacherie Another thing he 〈◊〉 at is master Charkes modest honest defence of master Hanmer hee hauing charged them that nothing could bee had either from the one or the other but words and why forsooth Because the disputation cannot bee procured and perfourmed by them being priuate men vpon whose warrant yet if they would like to come it is like they woulde bee readie to encounter them and perfourme the disputation in deede But because master Charke will defende master Hanmer whō by a Rethoricall diminution hee laboureth to abase with some praise of the one and disgrace of the other hee hath raked together and laide out of an heape as hee saith of his fooleries and falsehoode patched for sooth after the fashion of our 〈◊〉 some fewe thinges But surely if a man woulde but take a little paines to rake in their dounge I meane not onely in the foolish writings of many their worshipfull writers that haue written in controuersies against the religion of Christe but much more in their patched confuse sermons he shoulde finde nothing els but ridiculous absurdities blasphemous opinions and fooleries such as woulde make a mans eares to glowe and to tingle either in heating or reading them I referre the Reader for controuersies but to Eckius Blyndasinus Aloysius Lypomanus Topiarius Grenewith Frier Perine Tefflerus Marshall and all the rest of that sort not reckoned amongst the best learned and as for their sermons they are well worse Hee may bee ashamed to 〈◊〉 that wee patch our Sermons For his patches vse nothing but patcherie whilest their preachings are nothing but pratings toyes fancies of their owne denising as farre from the taste of Gods spirite and the knowledge of the woorde of God as them selues are from all spirituall feeling and taste of godlinesse demne it vnlesse it be done warilie Sometime they say if the Pope bee founde negligent of his own saluation and of his brethrens if he be foūd vnprofitable and remisse in his businesse and altogether without anie goodnes so that he hurt himselfe and others lead thē by whole heapes into hel to the diuel yet it is not lawful for any mortal man to reprooue him or to say sir why doe you so the reason is because he is to iudge all men and to be iudged of no man c. And yet their Rubricke gainsayeth that same blasphemous Canon as also the Canon admonendi Causa 2. quest 7. It were infinite and tedious to followal but as they are one against another so they are against themselues and against their other general doctrine in many things confirming that which they so persecute with fire faggotin vs as for example Clement the Pope saith that the holy scripture is to be interpreted by it self The canōs of the Apostles are reiected out of Isiodore because they were made by heretikes It is saide nothing is to be forbidden that the scriptures forbid not They teach that finnes are forgiuen through faith only the promise of pardon may be obtayned Againe they affirme that we being the sonnes of wrath cānot be saued but through faith in Christ the mediator And they allowe the Sacrament to be ministred to the lay people in both kinds and the glosse is not against it Against their counterfeit supremacie also Cyprian the pope saith that the other apostles were of the same authority that Peter was The supremacie of the pope is reiected in the Church neither hath the Pope al things in the closet of his breast They 〈◊〉 also the right of choosing the pope and appoynting the apostolical See vnto the Emperor 〈◊〉 they take away the pluralitie of benefices and ordeine that one priest shal not haue many churches committed to his charge They teach as we doe that al the dutie of priests as they cal them consisteth in preaching and that this duetie also belongeth to Bishops They forbid their Clarkes to be present at marriage feastes or to haunte ale houses or ta uernes they must haue no cōuersation with women the masse of a priest which keepeth a whore may not be heard Their 〈◊〉 that haue not the gift of chastitie may marrie Their mōkes according to their names