Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	apostle_n	church_n	creed_n	2,605	5	10.2206	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A64702	The church-papist (so-called), his religion and tenets fully discovered in a serious dispute ... whereby the common ... arguments of pretended visibility, succession, universality, &c., of the Roman Church ... are briefly confuted : whereunto is added, a short discourse proving episcopacy to be of divine institution, kingly government of Gods setting up, and the religion of the Church of England, to be the best in the world / by one of the children of the late captivity, 1680.	Underwood, John, fl. 1680.	1680 (1680)	Wing U46; ESTC R7367	28,086	42

which is true many great men have turned Hereticks Judas chang'd from an Apostle to a Devil so 't is the easie for others to change from Shepherds into Wolves Nor can the Roman Prelates pretend they have only this veràm et sanam Doctrinam or claim a lawful succession of Pastors continually holding entire the Unity and the Eaith for they have not kept the Unity of the Church but have had more Schisms among them than any other Church above thirty acknowledged by their own Chronologer Onuphrius Even Popes themselves have many of them by confession of several Romish Authors who have written of their Lives been very vile erroneous Heretical c. So 't is clear Rome hath no lawful Succession by confession they have only a Succession of gross Superstitions and Errors for a bout a thousand years for which they can shew no Practice on Warrant from the Apostles You further say That our English Bishops had no Succession from Roman Catholick for immediately after Conscoration Stapleton Harding c. your own men told them to their faces they were no Bishops Ergo only the Roman Church have lawful Succession I see you are put to hard straits for proof that seeing the Fathers will not speak for you you are forced to be your own Testimony which with me is less than nothing for who will or can take an Adversary's bare objections for a sufficient confutation of a matter in question for by this your Argument and Rule of proof should I tell you that any of our Party say Stapleton Harding c. were no Scholars though indeed they were great Clarks and should I say they were damnable Hereticks and forsakers of the Truth as in truth they are you ought to admit it as a convincing Testimony else why do you obtrude your sayings for proof but let that pass You confess English Bishops had Consecration from the Roman and so enabled and qualified for the service of the Church If then the Roman had any lawful power to consecrate which I deny not I do not question but their Consecration is valid enough and hold good notwithstanding Stapleton and Hardings words to the contrary for such sayings do not unordain and so we have your Succession and Consecration to boot But whether ordinary Mission or Ordination be so absolutely necessary to the being of Truth as though Truth could nor be without it is with me a question seeing Christ encouraged the Faithful that did wonders in Christ's name and was not sent St. Mark 9.39 40. forbid him not he is on our part c. nor did I ever conceive a necessity lay on the English Church to receive Orders from Rome more than on the Roman to receive Orders from it seeing we were a Church Apostolick assoon yea were a Church before any settlement of a Church in Rome The Religion of Christ was received in Brittain tempore ut scimus summo Tiberii Caesaris in the latter time of Tiberius Caesar as saith St. Gildas de excid Brit. the same is acknowledged by your own man Baronius whereas St. Peter kept in Jury long after Tiberius his death And as Theodoret and Sophronimus Patriarchs of Jerusalem affirm the Apostle St. Paul first taught in Britain Also Aristobulus mentioned Romans 16. came to this Isle and discharged the Office of a Bishop as Dorotheus witnesseth and in his Synopsis also averreth Simon Zelotes Christum praedicavit in Britannia ubi crucifixus occisus et sepultus est The same also affirmeth Nicephorus lib. 2. cap. 40. Simon Zelotes Evangelii Doctrinam ad occidentalem Oceanum Insulasque Britannicas perfert And Joseph of Arimathea An. Dom. 53. taught the Gospel in Britain as Baleus Flemingus and others affirm likewise Tertullian who lived An. Christi 200 saith Britanorum loca Romanis inapoessa Christo subdita sunt advers Judaeos cap. 7.8 After him Origin An. Christi 260. witnesseth Britanniam in Christianam consentire Religionem So it is evident and most clear that Apostles and Apostolick men delivered over the Faith to us and were the first Planters we had many Waterers after of this Plantation and a succession of Doctrine by confession on all sides St. Jerom also Anno 405. records Gallia Britanniá Africa c. unum Christum adorant unam observant Regulam veritatis In which time Bellarmine confesseth the Church was a true Apostolick Church Antiqua Ecclesia primis quingentis Annis vera Ecclesia fuit c. Bel. l. 4. de notab Eccl. cap. 9. and then viz. the first four hundred years we and Rome were of one joint Belief and Faith from one Fountain Christ Jesus and his Apostles and the same faith we had then the same we have now we hold to the old Foundation the Scripture Creed and ractice of the general Church in those times so are we a true Church and a right Member of the Catholick having lawful succession of Doctrine convey'd to us as before is proved from Apostles and Apostolick men whereby it 's evident we are no Novelists nor any of our Profession the Antiquity whereof our very Enemies do acknowledge Reinerus a Roman Inquisitor above three hundred years since speaking of the Professors at Lyons calling them Valdensae Leonistae c. in contempt saith they are more pernitious to the Church of Rome than all other Sects for three causes First being of longer continuance than any other the Sect enduring ever since the Apostles Secondly It is general creeping into all Lands Thirdly It hath a great shew of Godliness they live justly believe all things well concerning God and all the Articles contained in the Creed only they Blaspheme in hating the Church of Rome c. He calls us indeed a Sect as of old the Priests of the Jews called the Church of Christians a Sect of Nazarites Acts 24.5 but you see by Confession we had our Doctrine in former Ages and were a Church from the Beginning and are not estranged from the Church of Rome where she holds the Truth but she from us and the true Catholick Church of Christ nor do we depart from her as they charge us or are any further remote from her than she her self is from her primitive Purity antient Principles from Scripture Reason Charity Antiouity and from what she was in her best of times our present Church of England though often have been under clouds and heavy persecutions still retaining the primitive verity to this day So your second Argument is invalid in that you have not proved nor can prove that the Church of Rome hath this lawful Succession of uncorrupted Doctrine and Principles or that succession of Pastors is necessarily tied to one particular place for ever to make the being of the Catholick Church as though the universal Church of Christ could cease to be if Rome and her Prelates were extinct and turn'd to Ashes Your third Argument from pretended Privileges belonging to the Roman Church viz. 3. That Church only that have confuted and anathematized

St. Peter's and why not St. Paul's Faith was not his as good and the other Apostles the same that St. Peter taught Was there no true Faith but what came from Rome and 't is yet a question whether St. Peter was ever there Rome could never yet make it appear Was all the Doctrine of the other Apostles invalid Was not their power equal Matth. 28.19 20. and 18.18 Joh. 20.22 23. 'T is most sure one was not above another as before is proved Christs Word was delivered to all to Preach from which our very greatest Adversary is forced to confess Summa Potestas Ecclesiastica non solum data est Petro sed etiam aliis Apostolis Bellarm. li. de Ro. Pont. ca. 1. all are Supreme Then they who pretend to be St. Peter's Successors have not Supreme Ecclesiastical Power any more than the Successors of the other Apostles for St. August Tract 50. in St. Jo. saith Si hoc Petro tantum dictum est non facit hoc Ecclesia The Keys were given to St. Peter and all the rest in a Figure of the Church as one saith to whose power and to whose use they were given not to one to Lord it over the rest It shall not be so with you c. as before And St. Augustin de Agon Chri. ca. 30. Petrus Personam Ecclesiae Catholicae sustinet huic datae sunt Claves quum Petro datae so the Power is in the Catholick Church not any single Person as is evident by the practise of the Primitive Church many hundred years after Christ when was no Universal Bishop as before is proved to St. Gregory's time St. Peter's Faith not his Person is the Rock against which c. for afterwards to his Person Christ said Get thee behind me Satan c. And a Temptation did too much prevail on him when he most horribly fell in a personal and shameful denial of his Master which cost him many bitter Tears Epiphanius li. 2. Heres 59. tells us 't is his Faith Super hanc Petram solidae Fidei edificabo Ecclesiam meam So St. Greg. Nyssen also Haec sides Ecclesiae fundamentum est de Trin. adver Judaeos The same Interpretation gives St. Hilar. li. de Trin. Super hanc igitur confessionis Petram Ecclesiae edificatio est And this Faith the whole Catholick Church hath which is the Rock against which Hell Gates shall not prevail to cause the Church to fail fundamentally If any were supreme why not the beloved Disciple to whom it was never said Get thee behind me Satan and who never denyed his Master Or St. Paul though none of the twelve yet an Apostle for whom there is more colour for He had the Right Hand of Fellowship given him Gal. 2.9 And he himself owned expresly an Authority 1 Cor. 7.17 And so ordain I in all Churches In all Churches in the Roman as well as other if Rome was then a Church Sollicitudo omnium Ecclesiarum The Care of all the Churches he saith 2 Cor. 11.28 And where was St. Peter's Supremacy yea where was his Infallibility when St. Paul rebuked and opposed him to his face in that He walked not uprightly according to the Truth of the Gospel Gal. 11.3.4 And where was his Supremacy when he was sent on Errands by the Church viz. by the other Apostles Acts 11.3 4. and Acts 15.13 And how can St. Peter's pretended Successors claim a Supremacy that St. Peter had not himself If any succeeded our Lord in the Principality of the Church Epiphanius twice tells you it is St. James the Lords Brother Ille primus Episcopalem Cathedram cepit quum ei ante caeteros omnes suum in terris Thronum Dominus tradidisset Epiphan l. 3. Haeres 78. Page 103. You go on and say What Faith the Romans had then the very same they have at this present c. Not so neither for Rome was a right Church and is now a wrong Their Faith is changed at least what Faith they have now they had not then the true Church then and many hundred years after knew not your present Errors and Superstitions not your prayer in the Church in an unknown Tongue as St. Paul witnesseth 1 Cor. 14. The Church owned no supreme Prelate no Pope above his fellows usurping a power to depose Princes no worshipping of Images no invocation of Saints no adoration of the Bread in Sacrament no breaking of Christs Institution in the Eucharist giving the holy Sacrament but in one kind no Purgatory no Decretal Epistles and Canons against Scripture to be believed as Scripture No Doctrine of Devils c. Tim. 4.1 2 3. St. Augustin whose memory is honoured through the whole Christian world in all Churches was of the true Catholick Church no man will deny and yet he was no Romanist in Opinion for he was in the separation of the Affrick Church from Rome with many other Bishops and died therein Ergo 't is possible to be of the true Catholick Church and yet out of the Roman We are taught by St. August de Bap. con Don. ca. 4. Evident Scripture before all things must take place for it is as your own man Stapleton confesseth Relict con 4. q. Ar. 3. the Foundation and Pillar of Faith Scripturam Fundamentum esse Columnam Fidei fatemur Then I shall not easily be led away from the Foundation by the subtle tradition of men seeing St. Paul gives more warning Coloss 2.8 Beware lest any man spoil you through Philosophy and vain Deceit after the Tradition of men Now what my Faith is I have told you in the beginning of my first Paper which I take to be the Faith of the present Church of England I embrace the Faith which the Apostles delivered I believe the holy Scripture and the Creeds and these in the sence of the ancient Primitive Church I submit in all humility to the four great General Councils so much magnified throughout Christendom their Determinations and Interpretations and I do believe all points of Doctrine generally received as fundamental in the Church of Christ This I confess and subscribe to and seeing I so do you are bound in charity to believe me for you have all the proof that can be had or that ever Man or Church required Now shew me where I do depart from the Foundation and yet I am no Papist or shew me if you can where the Church of England doth fail in any one point fundamental in the Faith We do not Hominis consuetudinem sequi sed Dei veritatem as St. Cypr. l. 2. Epist 3. teacheth for Consuetudo sine veritate vetustas est Erroris ibid. We are bid to go to the Law and the Testimony The Word is a Light unto our Feet and Lanthorn to our Paths we are taught to Search the Scripture which is able to make the man of God perfect saith St. Paul It was proclaimed from Heaven by God the Father first at Jordan then at Mount Tabor This is my

Succession Numerate Sacerdotes vel ab ipsa Petri sede in illo ordine Patrum quis cui successit videte as saith St. August In hoc ordine successionis nullus Donatista Episcopus invenitur And our English Bishops had no succession from Roman Catholick for immediately after their Consecration Stapleton Harding c. told them to their faces they were no Bishops Ergo only the Roman Church have lawful Succession The Third Argument from pretended peculiar Privileges belonging to the Roman Church viz. 3. That Church only that have confuted and anathematiz'd all Hereticks converted Nations deprived Schismatical Bishops restored Orthodox Bishops called Councils c. that is the True Church But only the Roman is such Ergo only the Roman is the True Church The Proof THe Major is plain because these Privileges belong to the Authority of the Mother Church which is Matrix Radix omnium Ecclesiarum The Minor is proved for In Ecclesia Romana semper viguit Apostolicae Cathedrae Principatus therefore in the Oriental Councils when some Bishops would not agree divers cryed out Romam ambulent Let them go to Rome Nam a Petro inquit August ipse Episcopatus tota Authoritas nominis hujus emersit and 't is manifest no Protestant Church ever confuted Hereticks converted Nations deprived Schismaticks restored Orthodox Bishops but slept Endimion's Sleep for above a thousand years or like a Didopper dived in the Apostles time and never rose again until Squire Luther that second Elias that fift Evangelist The Fourth Argument from Universality of the Roman Church viz. 4. That Church is only Catholick which is dispersed through all Nations But only the Roman is dispersed through all Nations Ergo the Roman Church only is the Catholick Church The Proof THe Major is proved for Universality is an evident mark of the Catholick Church Si vestra Ecclesia saith St. August sit Catholica ostendite per universam terram ramos suos copia ubertatis extendere for no Heresie can be Universal no Heretick can be Catholick Protestants are so far from Universality that 't is as hard a matter to find a Protestant in fifteen hundred as motum in vacuo The Minor is as evident that the Roman Church was dispersed through all Nations by St. Paul to the Romans 3.8 where he faith that the Roman Faith was Preached in all the World that is Peter's Faith and what Faith the Romans had then the very same they have at this present for the Roman Church is not to be new bottom'd neither to be reformed of new Calciners Fidei enim Regula una omnino est sola immobilis irreformabilis as Tertullian the Doctrine of Faith once delivered to the Apostles by the prime verity Jesus Christ and assisted by the Holy Ghost for ever cannot be altered and the Church being built upon a Rock need no repairing of new Masons Soliditas illius Petrae quae Apostolorum Principe est laudata perpetua est sicut Petra permanet quod in Christo Petrus credidit ita permanet quod PetrO Christus instituit Here St. Leo saith the Church is Perpetual and cannot fail so long as Christ is the Son of the Living God And although the Protestant Church be fallible yet the Roman is infallible therefore Vivat Fides Catholica Vivat Ecclesia Romana quae fuit tempore Apostolorum est eritque per secula sempiterna THE ANSWER SIR I Derive not my Faith from Luther or Calvin as Beginners of it yet do confess with St. Paul Acts 24.14 that aften the way which they call Heresie so worship I the Lord God of my Fathers I mean as those Fathers did whom Justin Martyr calls Patres Patrûm professing the Ancient Catholick Faith all the Articles of my Faith being grounded on Scripture and the constant belief of Fathers and Couneils in the Church of Christ the first four hundred years Antiqua Ecclesia primisquingentis Aunis vera Reclssia fuit Bell. lib. 4. de not Eccl. c. 9. The Opinions of any Posterior Fathers where they vary from the Doctrine of the First I think it unsafe to follow For St. Hierom teacheth me well Nec Parentum nec majorum Error sequendus est sed Authoritas Scripturarum Dei docentis imperium nam Judaei post Baalim abierunt quos didicerunt a Patribus In Jerem. ca. 9. We are not to take error by Tradition from our Fathers or Ancestors but the true sence of holy Scriptures is to be followed and the Power of God instructing us in them for the Jews went after Baal by the example of their Fathers As your Fathers did so do ye Acts 7.51 I am of the Apostles belief and I am sure they were no Papists rather Protestants protesting the Truth and sincerity of Faith against Error and Schism So we by receiving the true Sacraments which are called Visible Signs protesting the Faith protest against those which are corrupted and against all Doctrines contrary to Scripture and the Apostolick Faith c. and so in that sence you may call me Protestant Now to prove only the Roman Church to be the True Church you say That Church only that is Visible in all Ages is the True Church but only the Roman Church is Visible in all Ages Ergo only the Roman Church is the True Church And to prove the Major you instance the words of St. Mathew Dic Ecclesiae To which I answer that 't is not said Dic Romanae Ecclesiae Tell it to the Roman Church therefore makes no more for Rome than for Greece or any other place where the Church is hath been or shall be And to prove the Minor you only say 't is cleer by Church Histories Councils and Fathers that the Roman Church only is Visible but bring not one particular proof from any of them to make it evident and evince that the Church was no where else Visible for History also tells us that the East or Greek Church though often in great misery and persecution was and is a Church from the Apostles time So that Argument which is common to others you cannot appropriate only to the Roman seeing it makes as much for the Greek Church in whose Language the Oracles of the Son of Ged were written as for it The Greek Church was first honoured with the Original written Gospel and the Latin Church had it only by Franslation from it That there was and is a Church constant in all Ages though not apparently flourishing and visible at all times to all the world I not deny but that there is no Church where 't is not Splendid and Visible to all eyes you have not yet made any ways apparent Certainly the Ark of God was not less an Ark in being in Dagon's Tent and the Hands of the Philistines Persecution the fare of the Church Militant obscured the Churches Rays in many Nations and sometimes so totally Eclipsed her as she was not visible to Humane Eyes Besides your Position that