God euery spirit which câ—fesseth not Iesus Christ to haue come â— the flesh is not of God wherfore the samâ— is not of God which denieth either the dâ—uine or humaine nature of Christ and tâ— true vniting of them both or derogateth any thing from the office of Christ beeingâ— king who onely hath all spirituall rule anâ— authoritie committed vnto him beeing Prophet who onely is appointed to delâ—uer vnto vs his fathers minde and willâ— and to teach vs all truth being a Priestâ— who hath offered a sweete smelling Sacrifice for vs vnto God the father euen his owne body vppon the Crosse once for all which onely Sacrifice is of force and value to purge and clense the sinnes of all those that beleeue But who be they which denie Christ in person or in office â–ª euen that Church that woulde haue Christ as hee is â—n to be in any other shape fourme then that which he receiued of the virgin Ma 〈◊〉 in sundry places at one time contrary the nature of a true body or affirmeth â—at mankinde lost through Adams fal and ansâ—ression could be saued by any other leaâ—es then onely by Christ whether it be â—y mans merits and works or by the parâ—ons and indulgences of the Pope or by â—nie other deuise of man Finally that Church which teacheth anie other mediaâ—â—â— betwixt God and man either of reâ—emption or intercession then onely Christ â—he same Church denieth Christ to haue â—ome in the flesh and therefore is not the 〈◊〉 Church of god The bare name or title of the Church is not sufficient but as gold is tried by the Touchstone so we must prooue the Church by the woorde of 〈◊〉 which is the Touchstone of all truth This Church by the preaching of the Gospell by the Lodestarre of Christ his holy â—ord hath from time to time brought the â—le of God from Gentilitie from Iuâ—me from the grosse Idolatrie whiche â— haue vsed in your Church and from â— darke dungeon of ignorance and blindnes into the cleare light shining brightnes of true knowledge Yea this same râ—ligion and doctrine which nowe we dâ— teach was deliuered first by Iesus Chriâ— vnto the Apostles then preached by them afterwardes yet not without bloodshed taught from time to time for the space â— sixe hundred yeares as the writings of aâ— the auncient Fathers doo witnesseâ— and so forwarde vntill by little and little your superstitious patched religion increased by fire and Fagot and other extremâ— tortures and cruelties These thinges being manifest I tendering your saluation â— which doo call your â—elfe a Catholik or Papiste doo most earnestly admonish you that according vnto your promise yoâ— would yeeld your self vnto the eternal God who knoweth all secrets and abhorreth all hipocrisie Let Christ Iesus by the scepter of his woorde rule your conscience and direct your hart in his trueth suffer the holy spirit of God to instill the sweete tast of Gods holy woord into your minde that you may hate your owne ignorance and blindenesse and study to attaine the true light and to bee guided by the motions of the same comfortable spirit of God which the Lord graunt to you for his Christs sake Papist Aske of him what Church it was which â— hath induced the Christian people thoâ—row out the whole worlde to giue most â— humble credit in all pointes to the holy â—â—â—kes of the Byble what Church hath had 〈◊〉 discerning and seuering them from oâ—â—â— writinges of all sortes what Churche â—â—th had the custody of them and most safeâ—â— hath preserued them for the necessarie vse of Gods people and from the corruption of aduersaries aswell Iewes as Heretiks of all sortes and let the Protestant declare vnto me that this congregation hath had from time to time or euer had any right herein â—â— anie other Church sauing the catholike Church and I recante Answeare I Do merueile with what face you can â—rrogate vnto your Church that you haue moued the people throughout the â—orlde to giue credit vnto the scriptures 〈◊〉 that your Church hath deterred the â—â—â—ople from reading them affirminge â—â—â—m to be harde and difficult daungeâ—â—â—us to the simple and vnlearned a nose 〈◊〉 waxe a shippmans hose a dead letter and either of enuie vnto the poore souâ— whom you call dogges and hogges aâ— sing this text giue not that which is hâ— vnto dogges or of hate vnto the scripturâ— you haue kept the key knowledge whâ— is the holy woorde of God vnder a vaâ— in an vnknowne tounge fearinge aâ— iudge lest the misty cloudes of your persticious deuises would vanish awâ— if the bright beames of Christ his Gâ—pell might shine in simple mens mindâ— What humble credite do you giue vnto Scriptures seing that one of the pillerâ— your Church saieth That the Scripturâ— are not autenticall or of credite bâ— onelie by the warrant and aucthoriâ— of your Churche of Rome an other your Doctoures hath these woordeâ— The Apostles saith he when they deliuâ—red the Creed neuer said I beleue tâ— holy Byble or the holy Gospel but the saide I beleeue the holy Churche Aâ— likewise in an other place he saith â— any man haue the exposition of thâ— Church of Rome touchinge any placâ— of the Scriptures although he neitheâ— knowe nor vnderstand whether or howâ— it agreeth with the wordes of the Scriptures yet he hath the very word of God. â—nd how doubtful vncertain al your inâ—â—â—pretations be Cusanus a Cardinall 〈◊〉 the Churche of Rome sheweth It 〈◊〉 no meruaile saith he though the practise of the Churche expounde the â—â—â—iptures at one time one way and at â—â—â—other time another way For the vnderâ—â—â—nding or the sence of the scriptures runâ—â—â—h with the practise and that sence so agreeinge with the practise is the quicâ—â—ninge spirite And therefore the scripâ—â—res followe the Churche but contraâ—iewise the Churche followeth not the Scriptures And whereas in verie â—eede the scriptures be the light that geâ—â—â—th sight to the blinde and rightly called 〈◊〉 candle whereby the theefe is taken the truth which doeth disclose all errours 〈◊〉 rule to square and frame mans lyfe 〈◊〉 power of God vnto saluation I muse â—â—â—uely howe you daâ—â— presume to keepe his hid treasure from Gods inheritance â—nd yet preteÌ„d that you do perswade them â—â—â—stantly to giue most humble credit thereâ—â—â—to And forsomuche as you do challeng â—â—â—e discerning seuering the Scriptures â—â—â—om other writinges of all sortes you haue in verie deed not onely corrupted the trâ— sense of the Bible but also abased the authoritie of the scriptures and haue madâ— equall or rather preferred your owne decrees and constitutions before the holâ— Bible the errours in your old translatioÌ„ oâ— the Bible which you falsly ascribe vntâ— S. Ierome be so manifest so grosse thaâ— euery childe may easily espy them as iâ— the third chapter of Genesis these wordeâ— are to be found Ipsa conteret caput tuuâ— She shall breake
be more more discouered as in this answere to your questions wil appeare God grauÌ„t you eies to see it hearts to repent Where you demand quest 1. what church it was that coÌ„uerted the churches nations to the faith you seeme to aunswere your owne obiection for you say that that Church was Christes Apostles and a fewe mo who by their preachings and others planted Christian religion c. In the which saying you do wel agree with the Apostle Paule who saith to the Colossians That euen in his time the Gospel was fruitfull in all the worlde Nowe you know that your gorgious synagogue of Rome had not then receiued this gospel but did persecute it many yeres after So then it was the poore perseâ—â—â—ed church that brought the Gospel into Antioch into Rome or whersoeuer it was yet truelie planted vppon the earth Againe where you demaund quest â— what church hath had the custodie of the Scriptures and most safelie hath preserued them The Iewes would most easilie answere the papistes that it is their church For the Iewes haue kept them so warilie so manie aâ— were before Christes coÌ„ming that they durst not alter anie letter or title But if there seemed some cause of alteration by the order of the graÌ„mer rules as somtimes there did both in the auncient writings old printes there was acipher set downe to cause men to consider it â–ª but no man amoÌ„gst them was so bold as to aâ—â—er anie one iotte Such was Gods great prouidence towards vs that the vâ—â—â— â—mies of Christian religion should bee the â—epers preseruers of those bookes wherâ—on our christian religion is grounded so â—at we should always be able by diuine proâ—dence to confute both the Iewes and the â—istes by the same bookes which by diuine â—er haue bin preserued The Iewes more â—ely and religiously the papists through â—rupting some places for their purpose yet â—er permitted so far to corrupt the scripâ—es but that all their errours may easily be â—futed by anie of those textes that they reâ—ed Where you demaund quest 3. why beâ—e ye our church telling you this to bee â—ds word and booke and wil not credit her â—uouching it to be the true and vndoubted â—se of Gods booke The Iewe might aske â—â— and vs also this question but wee that â—ue heard Christ him selfe speake in his â—ting them in our heartes by his holy Spiâ— do answere both Iewes and papists as the â—maritanes did the woman that brought â—em the strst tidings of Christ Nowe wee â—eleeue say they not because of thy sayâ—ngs for we haue heard him our selues â—nd know that this in deed is the Christ â—nd Sauiour of the world wee beleeue â—im because of his owne word This is true faith onely to depend vpon the word of God and neither vpon the interpretation of the Iewe or Papist or any mans else further then he can manifest his sense by some manifest place of the selfe same word The 4 5. quest may easilie be aunswered by that which is alreadie written Againe where you demaund tauntinglie O Papistes where our principal pastour doth sitt in iudgement quest 6. we aunswere that he alwayes hath don so he now sitteth in the heauens doth pronounce sentence against that Antichrist of yours who doeth sit as God in the temple of God vpon earth and he will shortlie come to take a straight accompte of all inferiour pastours who are fellow elders and fellow pastours as Peter affirmeth And vppon the earth he hath made some Prophets some Apostles some Euangelistes some Pastours some Doctours or Teachers as Paule saith but no Popes no principall Pastours to put him selfe forth of that high office The which office if it had bene so necessarie vpon earth as your papistes do make it neither would Christ him selfe neither all his Apostles vtterlie haue forgotten it As for the place that you continuallie demaunde for where shall wee seeke this â—here shall we finde that Your Question â—o small purpose for our maister Christ â—e warneth that in these latter dayes â—ere should be such as should say Loe here â— Christ loe there is Christ as it were bin 〈◊〉 Christ and the grace of his spirituall â—er to a certaine place but he saith beâ—e them not The church the vineyarde of the Lorde and the true religion is neuer 〈◊〉 to place but as the people of anie place â—e growne in open contempt the Lorde 〈◊〉 taken away the Vineard of his church 〈◊〉 the euil husbandmen and giuen it to an other people that would yeelde better â—â—â—es So was the place remoued from Ierâ—â—lem which had so manie promises to â—â—â—oche to Ephesus to the Galatians Coloâ—â—ans Thessalonians and to sundrie places â—â—he earth besides wheresoeuer there 〈◊〉 fewe or manie gathered in the name of Christ Christ was among them Christ â— their principall pastour whose voyce â—e they would heare and thereby were â—wne to his sheepe So became they his â—rch and people though it were but soule one housholde or familie So became they his sheepe and he their Pastour and principall shepheard and Archpastour though in all congregations he had hâ— vndershepheard alwayes who fed the sheepâ— and fought for the lambs against the woluâ— And both these churches and pastours weâ— many times knowne to the true children â— the church when they were vnknowen â— the wicked world For the children of Goâ— who are called the children of wisedome dâ— alwayes take hold of the heauenlie wisdomâ— and haue that marke to knowe one anotheâ— and rest vpon Gods word without any respeâ— of person or place or anie earthlie thing â— the families of Noah Abraham Lot Isâ—ac Iacob c. hauing Gods woord to waâ—rant them cared not for al the world besideâ— whereas all they that depende vpon the ouâ—ward showe of place or persons haue falâ— continually from God and so from the trâ— church as both before Christ at Christs â—ming and since Christs comming it is manâ—fest in the Iewes in the Samaritans in tâ— Turkes and papistes in Agar and Ismael â— all those that chalenge authoritie by the auncientie and eldership without Gods prâ—mise Now we contrariwise depending onâ— vpon Gods word are the children of promâ— â— the manner of Isaac But as then hee â— was borne after the fleshe persecuted â—hat was borne after the spirit euen so â—ow Neuertheles what saith the scripâ— Cast out the bond woman and her â—e Our mother church Sara whiche â—th onely the worde of promise seemeth â— barren desolate and forsaken in the â— but God will not forget his promise â—efore we wil neither aske him of the â—â—or of the time nor of the meanes how â—ll performe it but knowing that hee â— begotten his church by his worde wee â— also that thereby he will nourishe it â—ultiplie it and preserue it for euer â—hall the world rage against it And â— where his worde soundeth wee must â—fâ—r his church And because the Roâ—ynagogue
the king as vnto the chiefe And to conclude he saieth Honour all men Loue brotherly felowship feare God honoure the king Markâ— also howe Tertullian a godlie Father agreeth with the Apostle against your supâ—rioritie We honour saith he the Emperoures maiestie as a man next vnto GOD for so is the Emperour greateâ— then all men while he is lesse then onelie the true God. Of this minde waâ— Pope Gregory as hee sheweth in an Epistle which he writeth vnto Mauritiuâ— the Emperour Beholde saith he Thuâ— will Christe answeare you by me beinâ— both his and your most humble seruantâ— I haue committed my priests into youâ— handes as for my parte I beyng subiect vnto your Maiesties commaundâ—ment haue caused your order to be senâ— throughout diuerse parts of the world â–ª So that by the premisses it plainelâ— appeareth what dangerous errours and corrupt doctrine moste repugnant to Christe your Churche of Rome hath taught the people of God. Papist 18 LET anie Protestante in the whole worlde prooue vnto me that their Churche coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that â— man aliue coulde name a place where â—y such churche was or that it might bee â—lled holie which had neither Baptisme â—r anie other sacrament to sanctifie anie â— her felowes withall or that it coulde bee â—e which as it grewe vp in the worlde was â—uided into so manie sundrie sectes â–ª or that â— might be called Apostolike which coulde â—uer make an accompt by orderly successiâ— from anie apostolike man or that the seâ—ete base and disordered congregation was â—er of that maiestie that it might require â—e obedience of all nations or that it was â—er able to gather generall councels or exâ—cise discipline vpon offendours or that â—hese titles proper by scripture and doctours â— the true church could euer be chaleÌ„ged by â—ght to their congregation I meane these â—itles following Corpus Christi the bodie of Christ Sponsa Christi the spouse of Christ â—nicè dilecta Christo the dearely beloued of Christ Amica Christi Christes louer Doâ—us dei Gods house Columba speciosa the beautifull Doue Columna veritatis thâ— piller of truth Ciuitas Dei the citie of Godâ— Ciuitas super montem posita a Citie set vpoâ— a hill Hortus conclusus a close garden Fons signatus a fountaine sealed vp Sponsa agnt The spouse of the Lambe Answeare 18 YOu doe vâ—ge often this Catholike Church and doe seme as of right to challenge iâ— to be your Churche of Rome but how vntruely I haue partely touched before This worde Catholike doth signifie vniuersall as in deede the true church of God is vniuersally spread and scattered abroade in all coastes and countries of the worlde and so doe diâ—erse good writers speake of it Saint Augustine sayeth That the catholike Churche is dispearsed throughout the whole earth And iâ— another place hee sayeth That the Church is called Catholike because she is vniuersally perfect and halteth in nothing and is poured throughout the whole worlde An other saith That the vniuersall Churche is Hierusalem the citie of the liuing God which comprehendeth the congregation of the electe and chosen written in heauen An other sayeth That the churche is truely called catholike which is separated by sincere pure and vnspotted communion or felowship from all vnfaithful persons and from their successours and companions These thinges of duetie appertaine vnto the Churche First that it is vniuersall and therefore as I haue sayde before it is not limited eyther to place time or person Secondarily that it is of â—he elect whome God in his secrete and â—rcane knowledge hath sealed vnto life eâ—erlasting Thirdly that it hath no felowâ—hippe with the vnfaithfull and with such â—s will not beleeue the trueth Neuerâ—helesse in the visible churche there be of â—ll sortes mixte together both good and â—adde beleeuers and hypocrites darâ—ell and pure wheate But to answeare â—our interrogation You woulde knowe Howe the Protestantes churche can be calâ—d the true Catholike and Apostolike â—hurche And I woulde demaund the like â—f you howe your Churche of Rome can â— knowne to be the true churche of god â—ruly there is an vnfallible rule set down readie howe the true Churche of God may be knowne and howe this controuersie may easily be decided For if we will beleeue the holie Apostle of God he telleth the Ephesians That they are no more straungers and Forrenners but citizens with the sainctes and of the howshould of God and are built vppon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophetes Iesus Christ himselfe being the chiefe corner stone in whome all the building coupled together groweth to an holy temple in the Lorde So that you may see that the true Church of God is discerned and knowen by the Scriptures The true sheepe doe heare the voice of Christ and will not heare a stranger And so the godly father Augustine saith That in the scriptures wee learneâ— Christ in the Scriptures wee learne the Churche Wherefore doe wee not then reteine in them both Christe and his Church And writing against the Donatists being notorious heretikes he saith Betwixt vs and you this cometh in question where the church is what shall wee doe nowe in this matter â–ª Shall wee seeke for the church in our owne words or in the words of her heade which is our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that wee ought to seeke it rather in his woords who is the truth and doth best of all knowe his owne body So Chrisostome saith That since the time that Heresies inuaded the church there can bee no triall of true Christianitie neither any other refuge of Christians which woulde know the true faith but onely the scriptures of God and therefore he which will know the true Church of God howe shall he know it but onely by the Scriptures Thus it appeareth that the true Church of God dooth defend her selfe onely by the Scriptures and woord of God which your Church of Rome doeth vtterly refuse for that you boldly affirme that the Scriptures haue not their strength neither receiue their authoritie from god But from the Church of Rome Yea moreouer you say That the holy Church of Rome hath power by a singular priuiledge graunted vnto her to open and to shut vp the gates of the Kingdome of heauen from whom shee listeth and that this power of binding and loosing is no lesse in your church of Rome then it is in Christ But you will say that I doe sclaunder you in saying That you affirme the Scriptures of God to haue their strength and authoritie from the church of Rome Truly one of your owne writers hath these wordes Who soeuer leaneth not sayth he to the doctrine of the Romaine church and to the authoritie of the Bishop of Rome as vnto the vnfallible rule of God of which Doctrine the holy Scripture taketh her force and authoritie he is an heretike He saith further That
the authoritie of the Romaine church and of the Bishop of Rome is greater then the authoritie of Gods word An other saith That this is the iudgment of all them that thinke lightly that ground the authhoritie and vnderstanding of the Scriptures in the allowance of the Church and not conrariwise â—lay the foundation of the church in the authoritie of the scriptures There be no coÌ„maundemeÌ„ts of Christ but such only as bee taken so and holden by the Church Therefore the scriptures followe the Church but contrariewise the Church followeth not the Scriptures An other saith That the Apostles haue written certaine things not that their said writings should rule our faith or religion but rather that they should bee vnder and be ruled by our faith the scriptures are dumbe iudges the scriptures are like a nose of waxe I might alledge many authorities out of your owne writers which go about to extoll your church of Rome aboue God and his holy worde â—ut these may perswade all men which be not wilfully blinded how arrogantly and Luciferlike you do preferre your Church both contrarie to the manifest expresse woorde of God and also to the opinion iudgement of the Godly learned fathers whose authorities I haue cited But let the indifferent reader iudge whether our church which groundeth her selfe wholy onely vpon the heauenly Scriptures and submitteth her selfe to the spirit of God as the true interpreter of the same hearkeneth onely vnto the voyce of her Pastor Christ and acknowlegeth him onely to bee her heade according as we are taught by the scriptures be the true Church of God the Catholik Apostolike church or your church of Rome which innketh her selfe equal with god vsurpeth authoritie aboue his most holy woord will not haue Christ but the Pope her heade which wil be iudge in all causes whether Christ will or no which mainteineth no not in one point the Apostolike doctrine and faith but doeth persecute euen vnto death the true professors of the same Whereas you doo aske Howe our Church can be one For that as you say it is deuided into so many sectes I haue shewed before that we doo not disagree now at this day in matters of faith and true religion as your Church of Rome dooth in matters of great weight and importance It hath beene a vulgar and common prouerbe of long time vsed that the Diuell will haue his Chappell nearâ— Gods Church Among the olde Prophets was some one Balaam or other In the small number which accompanied our Sauiour Christ was one Iudas many carnal Capernaites which sought rather their belly then the aduauncement of Gods truth which pretended a zeale and followed Christ yet depended vppon olde customes and ceremoniall traditions and helde other fond opinions Among the true Apostles were false Apostles which though not altogether yet in some parte preached either circumcision or iustification by woorkes repugnant to the doctrine of the true Apostles as you doo Our Sauiour truely prophesied That there shoulde arise false Christes and false Prophets Saint Paule saith yet in an other sence There must be heresies eueÌ„ among you that they which are approoued among you might bee knowne By which he noteth that Gods Church is not onely subiect to striffe and dissention as touching orders and maners but also to heresies as touching doctrine We doo not stand so stifely vppon our reputation but doe confesse that as we are men so we may erre But wee trye our iudgementes and opinions by the touchstone of Gods woord not respecting the person but the doctrine which we allow of so farre as the holy scriptures do approoue the same in which is no errour at all We doe not denie but that there may be amongest vs some carnall fleshly Gospellers some Epicures and Athistes some giuen to mainteine vnprofitable and straunge opinions as there are in your Church of Rome The like there were in the Apostles time some which helde of Paule some of Apollo some of Peter yea some which seemed to haue beene of the number of the faithfull because they occupied a place in the Church of whom the Apostle speaketh saying Babes it is the last time and as you haue hearde that Antichrist shall come euen nowe are there many Antichristes whereby we knowe that it is the last time they went out from vs but they were not of vs for if they had bene of vs they would haue continued with vs. It is manifest that in the primitiue church therewere false brethreÌ„ which were cloaked with the name of Christianitie Arrius that damnable heretik the fauourers of his sect which deny Christ to be God bosted theÌ„selues That they only were Catholikes and called others which mainteined the truth against them sometimes Ambrosians and sometimes Athanasians as you doo call vs nowe Lutherans nowe Caluinists nowe Zwinglians Ebion that Heretike who affirmed Christ to be onely man and saith that the obseruation of the Lawe was very necessarie to saluation would needes be called a Christian All other heretikes which were many in the florishing time of the church as appeareth by the stories bragged that they held the true faith that they were the true Church Shal we therfore coÌ„clude say that the Prophets the Apostles the godly Christians and fathers of the primitiue Church were not of the true Church of God for that in their times there were manie sectes which couered them selues with the cloake collour of true religion Saint Paule forseing through Gods spirite what woulde come gaue this watchworde to the Colosians To beware least that anie shoulde goe about to spoyle them through phylosophie and vaine deceit through the traditions of men acording to the rudimeÌ„ts of the world and not after Christ He also forwarneth the Thessalonians that Antichrist the sonne of perdicion shall sitt as God in the temple of God shewing him selfe to be God. It is wonderfull to see howe you are blinded seing you stumble at a strawe and doe leape ouer a bloke You strain at a gnat and doe swallow a Camel You see a moath in another mans eye and perceiue not the beame which is in your owne eye You are most giltie your selues in that which you would haue to be a notorious crime in others For you agree not in the principall poyntes of religion as I haue noted before but in that you demauÌ„d Whether our Churche was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all nations or gather generall councelles and howe the titles which you set foorth by name can bee applied to our Church I saie that our Church hath and doth enioy such priuiledges and preheminence as is limited vnto hir by the worde of God Neuerthelesse we doe not challenge anie such authoritie to the obedience of all nations vnto our Church but doe pray in the name of Christ vnto the Lorde of Heauen and earth to poure forth the
prison for that he woulde not take vpon him to be supreame heade of the Churche which Hildebrande poysoned sixe Popes was a coniurer and raised vp Diuelles and threwe the Sacrament into the fire Another saith that they were many that both priuatly and openly cursed Pope Hildebrande and said that with his hatred and ambition he troubled the worlde and that vnder the colour of Christ he wrought the feates of Antichrist This was he in whose time Sathan was let loose and when your Churche of Rome might truely be called the seate and harbour of Antichrist the man of sinne which setteth himselfe against God which sitteth in mens consciences is euen that whore which Saint Iohn speaketh of Which shoulde make the nations of the earth drunken with the cuppe of her fornication and hath imbrued her handes in the bloude of Gods Saintes Surely I muste needes say if that these Potenâ—ates had bene but a litle whitled and â—ot beastly drunke they woulde neuer haue bene so deceiued by Antichriste and receiued the marke of the beast What Lorde King or Emperour woulde haue kissed the Popes foote holden his stirâ—ope serued him at the table To coÌ„clude besides their wickednes in life as many of them being coniurers adulterets namelie Siluester the seconde whoe gaue him selfe bodie and soule to the Diuell that he might be Pope and Pope Ioane the woman Pope who traueled with Childe as shee was carried on foure mens shoulders about in procession their doctrine is most damnable and repugneth in all poyntes the Gospell of Christe As one saying of Agryppa speaking of the Pope and and Churche of Rome plainely sheweth They commaunde saith he the Angelles they haue power ouer the dead they vse violence against the Scriptures to haue the fulnesse of authoritie The Pope him selfe is become intollerable There was neuer Tyrant like vnto him in pompe and pride The Legates of the Byshoppe of Rome doe so riotte in their the Pope to be Antichrist as Irenaeus a godly father sheweth Antichrist saith he being a runnegate and a theefe yet hee will be woorshipped as a God And being but a bondseruant yet he will be proclaimed and published as a King. Another saith Antichrist shall faigne him selfe to bee holy that hee may deceiue men vnder the colour of holines yea he shall call him selfe God and shal cause him self to be worshipped and shall promise the kingdome of heauen An other saith Whereas he is a damned man and no spirit he pretendeth him selfe to bee a God and whatsoeuer he dooth no man may aske him Domine cur ita facis Sir why doo you so Enter now into your owne conscience examine these sayinges vprightly looke vppon them with a single eye and theÌ„ iudge you indifferently And I trust that you will recant according to your promise Papist 8 ITEM I aske what kinde and order of seruice or common prayer what way of ministring the Sacraments your Church had before papistrie as you cal it preuailed in the worlde shewe me one booke or coppie of communion or what else you list that was in english or lacked praying for the departed or inuocation of Saintes in heauen or that wanted oblation or sacrifice or that charged a number to receiue else the Prieste could not consecrate or say Masse receiuing alone or shewe anye note in a communion booke that people should take the sacrament for plaine breade or that they should giue no honour vnto it shewe this booke or anie Church or congregation that euer had aniâ—â—utenticall seruice but ours And I recant Answeare 8 I Shal not neede to stand long in reciting what kind of seruice was vsed before papistrie began verely euen the same which our Sauiour Christ set foorth which is recorded in the foure Euangelists and in the Epistles and writings of the Apostles from which the Apostles the congregations vnto whome they had preached the Gospell departed not one iotte And so the Apostle speaking of the institution of the Lordes Supper saith That thing which I haue receiued of the Lord the same haue I deliuered vnto you As though he should say euen he which ought onely to beare authoritie in the Church hath prescribed a way and orders of celebrating his laste Supper of whiche these are the chiefe partes That the Minister shoulde shewe the Lordes death by preaching his woorde and Gospell by calling vppon the name of the Lorde in prayer in deliuering the bread wine to bee receiued with thankesgeuing that the congregation shoulde for their partes proue and try them selues touching the knowledge of GOD fayth in the mercies of God offered in Christ and true sorrowe and lamentation for their sinnes past endeuouring them selues to leade a new life to shew forth the Lords death in consenting to his woorde and institution It is manifeste that the people to the number of three thousande soules beeing of diuerse countries and nations conuerted vnto the Gospell by Peters preaching continued for so the holie Ghoste speaketh in the Apostles doctrine and felowshippe and breaking of breade and prayers This order of seruice was vsed in all congregations from time to time amongest true Christians and remayned perfect for the space of sixe hundred yeares and odde yea vntill the same was altered by your Popish Cleargie who not being contented with that whiche Chrisâ—e his Apostles and the auncient Doctoures and Fathers of the Churche had sette foorth deuised a newe way of worshipping GOD a new â—order of ministration a straunge and newe â— deuised forme of prayer and so turned all vpside downe But in defence of the truth we may boldely and truely answeare you that we holde and mainteine the same order of seruice the same ministration of Sacramentes the same prayer that the true Apostles and faithfull Christians vsed in all ages And whereas you aske for Bookes in Englishe which were written before Papistrie beganne in which there is no mencion made of praying for the deade of inuocation to saintes of priuate Masse It is plaine that there were sundrie godly bookes of Scripture whiche Dioclesian that wicked Emperour did burne in open markettes whose steppes your Churche of Rome hath followed euermore in suppressing the truth by suche meanes Notwithstanding God be thanked there bee manie volumes exstant writteÌ„ both by the auncient and godly fathers of the Church as also in the Saxon tongue in verie oldâ— English of which I haue seene one veriâ— lately found in a verie olde ruinons wall which forbiddeth prayers for the deade whiche teacheth vs onely to inuocate thâ— name of God which maketh mention oâ— no masse but of the communion in botâ— kindes and to conclude doeth aduouche iâ— all pointes the same Sacramentes thâ— same principles of religion and the same manner of worshipping God that we doe and proueth the same by the scriptures Iâ— appeareth in histories that the Bohemians made peticion vnto the councell holden aâ— Basill that
the which â—uilding Christe is the chiefe corner stone â—hough you haue taught the people of God â—therwise affirming the Pope to be head â—f Gods Churche and to be of equiualent â—ucthoritie with Christ One of your scholeâ—octors saith That Christe and the Pope â—ake one consistorie and sinne onely â—xcepted the Pope can doe whatsoeuer God himselfe can doe And euen as you â—eale with Christe for the preheminence â—nd rule so you will appointe him a body â—r no bodie or alter or chaunge his bodie â—s you liste You cannot limit GOD â—is Church for his Church is in manie or â—ewe as his heauenlie wisedome appoyneth And therfore Christ saith That whenâ—oeuer two or three are gathered togeaâ—her in my name I am in the middest of â—hem And as one doth say as is before â—lledged Although there were but two â—en remayning in the worlde yet in â—hem two the Churche of God which â—s the vnitie of the faithfull shoulde bee saued Therefore though man be ignorant whome God hath elected vnto saluation and who be of Christ his bodie yet God who vnderstandeth all secretes doeth knowe who are his And euerie member of Christ hath the spirite of God to assure his conscience that he is the childe of god God graunt you that inwarde testimonie and the comfort of the same spirit grounded vpon the Gospell which they doe feele in themselues Then will you neuer be so carefull for these outwarde shewes Papist 15 SHew me that the church which ought to be a Christian mans stay in troubles â–ª and tempests of doctrine might become so hidden or so close that no man could finde her or so hartlesse that she coulde succour no man nor instruct anie man in hâ— doubte of conscience or distresse in faith Proue me that there may be such a decay â— Goddes spirit truth and churche And I recant Answeare 15 IT seemeth that you are harping alwaieâ— vppon one string but if you woulde dilâ—gently waie with your selfe the frailtie man who is dailie slipping away from dâ—tifull obedience towardes God and consider what bridles and bittes God hath ordained to pull him backe from the libertie of sinne to preserue him from daungers You shal finde other staies to grounde maÌ„s faith and settle his coÌ„science then anie such outwarde shewe of a visible Church as you imagin The ground worke and foundation of faith and the staie and buttresse of mans conscience are the holie scriptures which Dauid the blessed Prophet calleth the Mountaines vnto which the faithful shoulde lift vp their eyes which are the onely comforte to theÌ„ in their troubles Christ exhorteth vs To searche the scriptures for they do beare witnes of him who is our peace our iustification our sanctification our redemptioÌ„ The Apostle assureth vs That the scriptures are the power of god vnto saluatioÌ„ to as many as beleeue whether they be Iewes or Gentils What need we any further proofe to teach vs that faith is staied vpoÌ„ the scriptures then that which is spoken by Paule the Apostle â–ª Faith saith he commeth of hearing and hearing by the worde of God. Howe shall we knowe God â–ª Howe shall we knowe Christ How shal we know Gods spirit howe shall wee discerne true faith from a fonde opinion but onely by the scriptures Faith as Saint Augustine affirmeth doth stagger if the aucthority of gods scriptures do faile True faith true knowledge and a right conscience are grounded vpon the worde of god Constantine that worthie Emperour spake openly in the Nicene Councel to the like effecte The writinges saith he of the Euangelistes and Apostles and the oracles of the auncient Prophets do instruct vs plainely what we ought to vnderstande and beleue of Gods will and pleasure and therfore all contention set aparte let vs seeke the solution of those thinges which bee propounded out of the scriptures of God which by the testimonie of the holy Ghost be able to instruct vnto all good workes The doctrine of the scriptures teacheth especiallie these foure principles Knowledge Faith Godlines Iustice true brauÌ„ches of a christian mans life It is the parte of euerie Christian to learne to knowe God the Creatour and maker of all thinges to knowe Christ the the redemer of mankinde to knowe the holie Ghost the spirit of sanctificatioÌ„ what benefits he hath ond doth receiue by these â—hree persons vnited in one Godhead which â—noweledge the wise man calleth Perfect righteousnes and the roote of immoralitie Also our Sauiour Christ saith That â—his is eternall life that they know thee â—he onely true GOD and Iesus Christ whom thou hast sent Man created according to gods Image may not be like the Horse Mule in whom there is no vnderstanding or to bee such as God by the Prophet complaineth vpon That the oxe knoweth his owner the Asse his maâ—ters cribb But Israel hath not knowne â—ny people hath no vnderstanding It beâ—oueth him to beleue in these three persons and all thinges which he knoweth out of gods booke It is his part and duty moreouer to practise pietie and godlinesse towâ—rdes God iustice and vprigh dealing towardes man But I knowe what you â—hoote at Verely to haue vs to beleue and â—o stay our selues vpon the aucthoritie of your Church of Rome and the vnwritten â—erities of the same Church Because the true Church of God hath not alwaies appeared to the view of the whole worlde in outwarde pompe or shewe Therefore your indeuour to perswade yet I trust in vaine that man doubtfull in conscience and wauering in faith coulde receiue no comfort by that close inuisible and hartles Church as you call it I haue proued before that God hath raised vp in all ages since the beginninge of the worlde such as haue giuen a testimonie of their zeale and true religion vnto the worlde You must not limit and appointe God his Church or vpon whom hee shall power out his graces or in what measure he shall bestow his spirite God by the ministerie of his woorde doeth cure and heale suche as be broken in heart geueth medicine to heale their sickenesse maketh strong the weake faith and doth comforte the feeble minde of man by his holie spirite Gods spirite cannot decay or be of lesse power or Gods churche and spouse lesse honourable albeit there were but one simple man in the vniuersall worlde to mans iudgement which doeth imbrace the trueth of god Though Abell was but one thoughe Elias in his time was but one Noah and his housholde but a small number Christe our Sauiour and his simple Fishermen his Apostles men of no reputation a very few in respect of all the world besides had God therefore â—o Churche in these times Notwithstanding the law was corrupted before Christ the true worshipp of God cleane extinguised all the people geuen for the most part â—o idolatrie yea and no prophet to reproue the people from Malachie his time vntill
of God and your vnitie to agree â—ith Christs veritie and Gospell But is â—t this rather truely verified of your sucâ—ssion which was vttered by Pope Aâ—riaÌ„ Succedimus non Petro in pasceÌ„do â—d Romulo in parricidio We succeade â—aith hee not Peter in feeding but Roâ—ulus in murdering Succession of place â—uaileth not one strawe if you cannot in â—ke maner proue the succession of Christ â—s true doctrine The idolatrous priestes â— al ages might verie wel haue boasted of â—ccession of place And so might the Phaâ—sees which bragged somuch of their temâ—le and of their succession euen from Moâ—es and yet they were fouly fallen awaye â—roÌ„ the sincere pure Law of God worâ—hipped god in vain teaching the precepts â—nd doctrine of men You claime your sucâ—ession from Peter the blessed Apostle of Christ for that as you saie he was Bishope of Rome If nowe you can proue that your religioÌ„ is the same that Peter taught written by the spirit of truth for the comfort of the true Church of God conteined in the newe testament of Christ Then not onely I but all which defende the same truth with me will willingly ioyne handes with you But and if you can not proue your doctrine by gods worde you must theÌ„ pardoÌ„ vs in that we wil not take your part against Christ I woulde to God that you woulde vnfainedlie sect forthe to the vse of gods people that religion which the Apostle Paule I will not say Peter for that there is no warraÌ„t in the scriptures for his beinge at anie time in Rome planted amongst the Romanes Which faith true religion the Apostle commendeth in theÌ„ â–ª Then surely we woulde not onely goe but ruÌ„ne with you to the building of gods temple and woulde lay to our handes and our harts To this effect spaketh S. Ciprian that alwaies wee builde our faith succession and whole religion vpon a sure stedfast foundation If saith he The pipes of the cundit which before ran with aboundaunce happen to faile doe wee not serche to the heade c â–ª The priests of God â–ª â—â—â—ing gods commaundements must doe the same that if the truthe haue fainted or failed in any point we turne to the very originall of our Lord and to the traditions of the Gospell and of the Apostles that from thence the reason of our actions or doings may arise from whence the order it selfe and originall first began Thus wee may say of your vnitie in faith your vniformiâ—ie in ceremonies your holy functions If you can proue confirme these thinges by manifest places of the holy scriptures for my parte I will recant â—nd be of your religion But though you â—r an Angel would perswade me to the coÌ„trarie without the testimonie of Gods worde God assisting me with his spirit I will not beleue you I marueile why you will seeme to mainteine these matters seâ—ng it is most repugnanc to the truth The â—eade Capitaines of your religion and Doctours of your Church do not agree in â—he vnitie of your religion but do disâ—ent in the principle pointes thereof Some â—aye That Christes naturall body euen â—he same which was borne of the virâ—in Marie is receiued in the Sacrament â—ome denye saying that so soone as the forme of the bread is grated with the teethe straight way the body of Christ is caught vp into Heauen One sayth That a mouse may eate the body of Christ an other sayth That a mouse can not eate it and to dissolue these questions the cheefe piller of your church euen Petrus Lombardus saith What the mouse doth take or what she eateth God knoweth I can not tell And noting further the disagrement of your church men he saith Some men iudge thus some say thus some haue written thus some graunt thus some others haue taught thus that the verie substance of the bread wine remaine still And if a question saith he were moued what maner of conuersion or chaunge this is whether in forme or in substaunce or in some other manner I am not able to discusse An other saith How the body of Christ is there whether it bee by chaunging of something into it or Christes body beginne to bee there together with the bread both the substance and the accidents of the bread remaining still without chaunging it is not founde exprest in the canon of the Bible Innocentius the thirde Pope of that name sayth that there were some which sayde that as after consecration there remayned the very accidentes or formes of â—reade so likewise the verie substance of the same breade remaineth still Marke howe the pleasâ—â—nt and swete â—armonie and concordaunce of your â—hurch of Rome doeth agree and hange â—ogether as coÌ„cerning these weightie cauâ—s I thinke you iudge this transubstanâ—ation a matter of faith You may see â—en howe you agree or rather disagree â— the vnitie of faith Concerning your â—iformitie in your so manie superstitious â—uiteles and tedious Ceremonies and â—aditions of your owne inuentions it â—ay easily be veiwed and seene by the maâ—fold sectes of your religious stoare and â—ble of your heremites your Ankers â—d Ancresses your recluses your holy â—onkes of Benettes order of Cluniacenâ—s order of Lazarits order of Saint â—ieronimus order of Saint Gregories â—der the order of the shadowed valley of â—saphattes order of the Humiliats orâ—r of the Celestines order of Gilberâ—nes order of Iustinians order of the Charter house Monks of the Templaries order of the Iacobites order the Monks of Mount Oliuete Maries bretheren the order of the Flagellatours the Starred Monkes some white some black some graie some maled so called for thaâ— they did weare male cotes next their skin the order of Iesuites and a greate company of orders besides these Of Friers somâ— were called crosse bearers some Carmelitâ— or white Friers some Minorities or greâ— Friers some obseruant Friers some Mendicant or begging Friers some Dominicke some Franciscans so called of Sainâ— Frances whose coule as Thomas Aquine faith had power to remoue sinne I omitte your Channons your Virgiâ— Nunnes of all sortes but such as had nâ— oyle in their Lampes your Nominals your reals I might make a long discourse here in describinge the varietie of this religions crue and companie not only in ceremoniall matters but also in matters of faith and doctrine But I trust all the world doth knowe howe they haue bene bewitched with such kind of sorceries and therefore I should but wast labour and lose time You aske further Whether wee bee bounde to obey your Church of Rome and none other in all controuesies and doubtes raised by the difficultie of the Scriptures or by the vaine contention of heresies Hereby you seeme to chalenge two thinges not onely a prerogatiue or preheminence aboue all other churches but also the interpretation of the scriptures solely and wholy to appertaine vnto you But I pray you tell me from whence you had this
they mighte bee permitted to haue still the Gospels the Epistles and the Creede in their vulgare tongue iâ— which peticion they affirmed that in the Sclauon language it had beene vsed of old in the Church and likewise in their owne kingdome Charles the great called fiue councels namely at Mentze Rome Remes Cabilon and Arelate also decreed that onely the canonicall bookes of the Scripture shoulde be reade in the Church and none other as it was decreed long before in the councell holden at Carthage He â—ame one of them in the whole Church eiâ—her erected for your faith Church and serâ—ice or not prepared for all sortes for cathoâ—ke practises proue to me that it was done â—or any other seruice and religion then ours â—r that they be monuments of any other faith â—r church then that common knowne cathoâ—cke church And I recant Answeare 9. WHereas you demaund What furniture our Congregation euer â—ad c. I must needes tell you that either â—he hauing of such furniture or the want â—hereof are but weake feble argumentes â— proue the true Church of God by In â—utwarde pompe in superfluous ornaâ—ents in vnnecessarie toyes in vaine decâ—ing of your Churches with gold and silâ—er and other precious and costly attire in â—nprofitable rites in furnishinge your â—mples with abhominable idols in pleaâ—ng the eare in delightinge the eye in â—uginge in roaring in toying in trifâ—ng in nodding in becking in ducking â— all such heathenishe shewes and sensles significations wee thinke your Romishâ— Church excelled all idolatrous Ethnicks before and therefore in such superstitiouâ— trifles wee will not compare with you but willingly geue vnto you the preheminence because they be not signes of true religion but badges of Antichriste and furniture to deck the whore of Rome withall For all such kind of trumperie be her very markes As these was none of these toyes in the primitiue Churche neither in anie true reformed Churche sithence that â—â—ine â–ª so there was no Churches vntill the time of Constantine the great who builded churches and moued others to doe the like for the people of God to repaire vnto for to heare the worde of God truly preached to receiue the Sacramentes faithfully ministred according to Christes institution for the same vse and purpose we haue builded Churches and doe continually repaire and reedifie suche as be decayed and â—uâ—nous But vnto the time of Constantine the Christians were violentely and extremelie put to death and persecuted of tyrantes hauing no publike places to resorte vnto but priuately assembled themselues sometimes in dwelling houses sometimes in hollowe caues and dennes â—or feare of the cruel bloudie torments Laurentius Valla saith that in times past before the raigne of Constantine the greate the Christians had no temples but secrete and close places holie little houses but no great and gorgeous buildinges chappelles no Churches oratories within priuate walles no publike and open Churches For your chalices I will onelie vse the saying of Pope Boniface In time past saith he golden Byshoppes vsed woodden chalices but now wodden Byshopps vse golden chalices In like manner in Constantine his time there were no altars of lime stone but communion tables of wood and a long time after as it may easilie be proued by auncient writers Athanasius writeth That the ArriaÌ„ Heretikes in their furie and their rage did carrie foorth and burne the seates the pulpettes the wodden table and boorde and suche other thinges as they coulde gett out of Christian Churches S. Augustine writeth the same of the Donatistes Concerning your vestimentes your catholike practises and all your trumperies and beggerly Ceremonies for which you haue no warrant in Gods booke we way not one rushe Wee hould vs contented with that which Christ our sauior his Apostles and other catholik godly Fathers vsed Did not our sauiour Christ I pray you minister his last supper vnto his Apostles at the table without any further ceremonie euen as the Apostles all true Christians haue done euer more â–ª whose example the Lord grauÌ„t vs to folow Papist 10 I Aske of them whether the Lutherans Zwinglians Illirians Caluinists Confessionists Zwingfeldians Anabaptists and such like be all of one church And if either they can proue vnto me that these being of such diuersitie in faith and religion make one church or that eche of these sectes may giue saluation to their folowers being so disagreable one with the other in high points of our religion or that I should beleeue all these rather then the catholike church or one of these more then an other all makinge such a bould chaleÌ„ge for the truth Gospel Let the protestants of all these conferr together shew me of these things and with all amoÌ„g them selues agree to what sort of these sectes they would haue me I recant Answeare 10 I Do merueile greatly that you impute vnto our religion the heresies of the Anabaptists Swingfeldians seing that wee doe not in our daily sermons inueigh against their blasphemous errours but also haue written sundry bookes to confute the the same You doe aske a verie hard difficult questioÌ„ which you do vtter either for want of wit or lacke of knowledge to wit Whether Caluin c. were of one Churche whether they gaue saluatioÌ„ to their followers It is not in man precisely to define who is of Gods Church for that they only be of Gods inuisible church Whome God hath elected vnto saluation in his sonne Christ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was layd God only doth knowe who are his But it may be that you vnderstand it of the visible church then I will aunswere you accordingly that we are certainly persuaded that they were Gods children and that they ended their life and closed vp their eyes in the true faith of Christe doe rest now in Gods Kingdom Where you seeme to charg them with manifold scismes diuersitie of iudgmentes the truth is that they agreed in all points with the scriptures sauing that Luther in the real presence dissented from the rest which heresie as I haue noted before he receiued of your church of Rome I would not haue you to thinke that we ground our faith and religion or repose any part of our saluation vpon any particular Church or Councel or vpon any mortall man as you do We receiue mens iudgments and writings as they are men and so may erre And so the godly Fathers in times past were reputed and taken S Augustine hath these woordes Wee ought not sayth he to accept the disputations writings of any one be they neuer so Catholik and prayse worthie as we do receiue the canonicall scriptures but that sauinge their reuerence due vnto them we may well finde fault with or reiect some thinges in their writinges if it happen we finde they haue otherwise thought then the truth may beare them so am I in