but only cast downe some encroachments and improvements of poperie wee have no more erâ—cted a new faith in respect of the substance and essentials thereof than that zealous reformer Iosia built a new materiall Temple when hee cast out the Idols and Idolatrous worship out of the Lords house There is no other difference betwixt the Reformed and the Romish Church then betwixt a field well weeded and the same field formeâ—ly overgrowne with weeds or betwixt a heape of corne now well winnowed and the same heape lately mixed with chaffe And if it be a vaine and frivolous thing to say it is not the same field or the same corne as vaine and frivolous is it to say the Church is not the same it was or in the same place after it is swept and cleansed of the filth and dust or to say the Churches of Corinth and Galatia after their reformation occasioned by Saint Pauls writing were new Churches and not the same they were before because that in them before the Resurrection was denied Circumcision practisâ—d discipline neglected and Châ—isâ—s Apostles contemned which things now are not found in them or to say Naaman was not still the same person because before hee was a Leper and now is cleansed PA. If our Romane Church were so corrupt whence then had you the truth what you had you received from us PRO. Saint Austine saith that the Iewes were to the Christians Library-keepers of the bookes of the Law and the Prophets and might not the Romanists performe the like office to the Protestants The Iewish Church what time it was unsound preserved the Scriptureâ—Canon and by transcribingâ— and reading the same delivered the whole text therof trâ—ly to others And thus the Roman Church though in many things unsound preserved the bookes of holy Scripture and taught the Apostles Câ—eed with sundry parts of divine truth gathered from the same and by these principles of Christianitie preserved in that Church judicious and godly men might with study and diligence finde out what was the first delivered Christian doctâ—ine in such things as were necessary to salvation And herein was Gods gracious providence sâ—ene that even that Church wherein Luther himselfe received his Christianitie Ordination and power of Ministerie should for the benefit of Gods children preserve the Word and Sacraments and deliver them over to us though somewhat corruptly by their adding more Sacraments than ever Christ ordained and abusing those which we retaine with divers unwarrantable rites and Ceremonies In a word we received from you some truth mingled with errour wee have pared away your corruption as a worme out of an Apple and retained the wholsome and substantiall truth PA. Was there any Chucrh in being save our Roman Catholick in thâ— Ages next before Luther if so show uâ— where it was and with whom it held Communion PRO. When Christ came first into the World the Iewish Church was corrupted both in doctrine and manners this Church had in it Scribes and Pharisees as well as Zachary and Elizabeth Ioseph and Mary Simeon and Anna with others these were all of the same outward Communion with the Priesthood for they resorted to the Temple there they prayed and performed such holy rites as God himselfe enjoyned untill they heard farther of the Gospel by Christs manifestation Now I demand were not Ioseph and Mary and such good people â—ound members of Gods Church although the Scribes and Pharisees bore all the sway in the Church and had the Priesthood the word and Sacraments in their dispensing yet even then God had a Remnant of holy people which made up his Church though others went under the name thereof and exceeded them in number Now with these the sound part kept an outward Communion yet did not partake in all their erronious doctrines but condemned their grosser errours In like sort we were all of one outward Communion of one Church wherin salvation was and yet we shared not in those errours which a faction in the Church like the Pharisees of old maintained For as learned Dr. Field saith The errours which wee condemne at this day whereupon the difference groweth betweene us and the Romish faction were never generally received nor constantly delivered as the doctrines of the Church but doubtfully disputed and proposed as the opinions of some men in the Church not as the resolved determinations of the whole Church For had they beene the undoubted doctrines and determinations of the Church all men would have holden them entirely and constantly as they held the doctriâ—e of the Trinity and other Articles of the Faith And I have already showne from age to age that the errours condemned by us never found generall allowance and constant consent in the dayes of our fathers but that some worthy guides of Gods Church ever opposed them And thus was our Church preserved under the Papacie as wheaâ—e is among tares for wee were formerly mingled together like corne and chaffe in one heape until the time of Reformation came and winnowed our wheat from the chaffe of Poperie So that howsoever divers under the Papacie not brooknig Reformation maintained sundry erronious opinions Yet there were other worthies who living within that Communitie were not equally poysoned with errour but firmely beleeved all fundamentall truth and delivered the maine Articles of Christianitie over unto others For Answer then to the Question Where had our Church her being in the Ages next before Luther we say It was both within the Romane Church and without it For as learned Doctor Chaloner saith Our Church had in those dayes a twofold Subsisâ—encie â—he one Separate from the Church of Rome the other Mixt and conjoyneâ— with it Separate so it was in the Albâ—genses and Waldenses a peâ—ple whoâ— so soone as the Chuâ—ch of Rome had inteâ—preted her selfe touching sundry of those maine poynts of dâ—ffâ—rence betweene us and that a man could no lâ—nger Communicate with her in the publicke worship of God by reâ—son of soâ—e Idolatrous rites and customes which shâ— had establishâ—dâ— arose in France Savâ—y and the places neere adjoyning and professed the same substantiall Negatives and Affirmatives which we doe in a state Sepaâ—atâ— from the Church of Rome having Pastours and Congregations apart to themselves even unto this day From these descended the Wicklefisâ—s in England and the Hussites in Germanie and oâ—hers in other Countries who Maâ—gre the â—urie of fire and Sword maintained the same doctrine as they did The state of the Church mixt and conjoyned with the Church of Rome it selfe consisted of those who making no visible separation from the Roman profession as not perceiving the mysterie of iniquity which wrought in it did yet mislike the grosser errours and desired a Reformation To answer then the quâ—stion directly where was the Prâ—testants Church before Luthers time that is where was any Church in the world that taught that doctrine which the Protestants now teach â—
affection as the Scriptures are to be reverenced Is not this to minglâ— water with wine base mettall with good Bullion and so indeed a corrupting of Scripture Besides you have which is fearefull detracted from Gods Word thaâ— which was written with his owne finger to wit the second Commandement against the worship of Images and because the words thereof are sharpe and rip up the heart-strings of your Idolatrie you have therefore omitted them in your Catechismes Prayer bookes and in your Office of the blessed Virgin set foorth by commaund of Pius Quintus and to salve up the matter lest thereby wee should have no more then nine Commaundements you have cut the tenth into two You might well have left the words â—here that Gods people might know there was such a Commandement howsoever they had counted it the first or the second Now as you have detracted so you have added to the rule of Faith by thrusting into the Canon the Apocryphall bookes which Hierome the best languaged of all the Father rejected Lastly you doe not only allow but impose on others a corrupt translation of Scripture to wit the vulgar Latine Edition whereas wee referre our selves to the Originals Now surely wee may better trust an originall Record than a Copie extracted thence and it is more wholesome to drinke at the well-head than at a corrupt and muddie streame Now the Latine Edition which you follow and preferre before all others it is but a Translation it selfe but the Hebrew and Greeke which wee follow are the Well-springs and Originalls Is not this now a manifest corrupting of Scripture to bind all men as your Trent Councell doth that none dare presume to reject this Translation which by your owne men is confessed not to be Saint Hierâ—mes and already showne to be a corrupt one by the learned of our side PA. I looke to have your Professors named PRO. Restore us entire our Evidence which you have marred and made away returne us our Witnesses which you have chained up in your Vatican Library and elsewhere and wee accept your challenge But doe you indeed looke to have our professors named and why so the true Church of God may bee visible though the names of her visible professors from time to time can not be shewed there might be thousands of professors in former ages and yet happily no particular authentick Record of their names now extant or if extant yet so as we cannot come by them Neverthelesse to answere you at your owne weapon I hope to make it cleare that God hath dealt so graciously with his Church as that he hath continually preserved sufficient testimonies of his truth that are ready to be deposed on our side and that successively from age to age so that I may say as Saint Ambrose did in the like case You may well blot out our Letters but our Faith you shall never abolish Papists may conceale our evidence and wipe out the names of our Professors out of the Records but when all is done the Protestants faith is perpetuall Now in that we yeeld thus farre to their importunitie we doe not this as if it were simply necessary for the Demonstration of our Church to produce such a Catalogue of visible Professors in all Ages but onely out of the confidence of the truth of our cause and partly to stop the mouth of our clamorous adveâ—saries For it is Tertullians Rule that A Church is to bee accounted Apostolike if it hold Consanguinitie of Doctrine with the Apostles Now what though we could noâ— successively name such as taught as we doe yet because God hath promised there should be alwaies in the world a true Church having either a larger or smaller number of Prosessors it sufficeth that we are able out of Scripture to demonstrate that we maintaine the same Faith and Religion which the holy Apostles taught and Christ would have to be perpetuall this I say sufficeth to manifest our Succession although all Histories were silent of the names of our Professors Now that I am to speake of the Church in her severall and successive Centuries and Ages to give the Reader some Character and touch thereof I will beginne with the fiâ—st 600. yeares next after Christ wherein ten severall times during the fiâ—st three Centuries the Church was persecuted by Tyrants and almost continually assaulted by Heretikes yet in the end Truth prevailed against Error and Patience overcame her Persâ—cutors This is the time wherein our learned Bishop Iewell challenged the Papists to shew any Orthodoxe Father Councell or Doctor that for the space of those 600 Yeares taught as the present Church of Rome did the like challenge was lately renued by my deare friend that worthy Divine Doctor Featly of Oxford challenging the Iesuits to produce out of good Authors any Citie Parish or Hamlet within 500. yeares next after Christ wherein there was any visible assembly that maintained in generall the Articles of the Trent Councell or such and such points of Popery as at the Conference hee named in particular Now of this period the first 300. yeares thereof were the very flower of the Primitive Church because that in theâ—e dayes the truth of the Gospell was infallibly taught by Christ and his Apostles and that in their owne persons as also by otheâ—s that lived to heare see and converse with those blessed Apostles and disciples of Christ Iesus and this haply made Egesippus an ancient Authour call the Church of those dayes an uncorrupt and virgin Church and yet was this virgin Church ill intreated by such a sowed the tares of errour which yet the carefull husbandman in time weeded up neither indeed for the space of these first 300 could those Tenets of Poperie get any footing their Papall Indulgences were yet unhatched their purgatory fire was yet unkindled it made not as afterwards their pot boyle and their kitchin smoake the Masse was yet unmoulded Transubstantiation was yet unbaked the treasury of Merits was yet unminted the Popes transcendent power was uncreated Ecclesiastickes were unexempted and deposing of Kings yet undreamed of the Lay-people were not yet couzned of the cup Communion under one kinde was not yet in kinde it was not then knowne that Liturgies and prayers were usually and publikely made in a tongue unknowne they did not then worship and adore any wooden or breaden god they worshipt that which they knew and that in Spirit and truth and they called on him in whom they beleeved so did they and so doe wee In a word in the former ages of the Church Satan was bound after the thousandth yeare hee was loosed and after the middle of the second Millenary about the yeare 1370 hee was bound anew Concerning the Churches estate in the next five hundred yeares it grew very corrupt so that of these times we may say as Winefridus borne at Kirton in Devonshire after surnamed Boniface was
may grow in respect of farther Explanations but it cannot increase in Substantiall points even as a child as Vicentius Lirinensis â—aith though he grow in stature yet hath he no more limbs when he becommeth a man than he had when he was a child so the Church hath no more parts or Articles of Faith in her riper age than she had in her infancie and by this rule new Rome is a Monster if she have more â—word oâ— liâ—bs of Faith now in her declining age than ancient Rome had in her flourishing age And herein we challenge our adversaries to shew the body of their Religion peâ—fited in this first and purest age what time the Church was in her vigour and the Scripture Canon finished and consigned but they dare not be tried by the booke of Scripture Now for us we willingly put our cause to bee tried by that honourable and unpartiall Iury of Christ and his twelve Apostles and the Evidence that shall be given by the testimonie and vivâ voce of holy Scripture but they turne their backs and fly from this triall But I proceed and come to Ioseph of Arimathea whom I named for one of our Ilands speciall Benefactors it was this Ioseph as our best Antiquaries say that together with twelve other Disciples his Assistants came out of France into Britaine and preached the Christian Faith in the Western part of this Iland now called Glastenbury which place in ancient Charters was termed the Grave of the Saints the Mother Church the Disciples foundation whereby it is very likely that our land was first converted by Ioseph of Arimathea being sent hither by S. Phillip not from S. Peter and that not from Rome but from Arimathea which was not farre from Hierusalem so that Hierusalem is the Mother of us all as both Hierome and Theodoret say And this is the rather probable because that upon Austin the Monks comming into England the British Bishops observed their Easter and other points of difference according to the Greâ—ke or Easterne Church and not after the Romane Westerne Church which makes it probable that our first conversion came from the Christian converted Iewes or Grecians and not from the Romanes but howsoever it were or whence-soever they came wee blesse God for the great worke of our conversion THE SECOND CENTVRIE From the yeare of Grace 100. to 200. PAPIST WHom doe you name in this Age PROTESTANT In this Age lived Hegesippus of the Iewish Nation afterwards converted to Christianitie Melito Bishop of Sardis Iustine Martyr who of a Philosopher became both a Christian and a Martyr Now also lived Irenaeus Bishop of Lyons in France sometimes Scholler to Polycarp and both of them Martyred foâ— the name of Christ of this Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna it is recorded that being urged by the Romane Deputie to deny Christ he stoutly replied on this manner I have served him these foure-score and six yeares and he hath not hurt me and shall I now deny him Now also lived Clemens Alexandrinus who was Scholler to one Pantenus these two seeme to be the Authors of Vniversities and Colledges for they taught the Grounds of Religion not by Sermons and Homilies to the people but by Catecheticall doctrine to the Learned in the Schooles Now that in point of doctrine we consent with the Worthies of this Age it may appeaâ—e by the testimonie of Irenâ—us a Disciple of those that heard Saint Iohn the Apostle for he layeth downe no other Articles of Faith and Grounds of Religion then our ordinarie Catechisme teacheth besides he sheweth that in the unitie of that Faith the Churches of Germany Spain France the East Aegypt Libya and all the World were founded and therein sweetly accorded as if they had al dwelt in one house all had had but one soule and one heart and one mouth The like doth his contemporary Tertullian he gives the fundamentall points of Religion gathered out of the Scriptures and delivered by the Churches the same which our Church delivereth and no other for the Rule of Faith Of the Scriptures Sufficiencie and Canon Irenaeus saith The Scriptures are perfect as spoken from the Word of God and his Spirit and Erasmus observes that Irenaeus fought against the troupes of Heretikes onely by the forces and strength of Scripture indeed he sometimes chargeth them with the Churches tradition wounding them with their owne weapon but this was with such undoubted tradition as were in his time thought to bee Apostolike which he might easily discerne living so neere the Aposâ—les dayes Melito Bishop of Sardis being desired by Onesimus to send him a Catalogue of the Bookes of the Old Testament makes no mention of Iudith Tobit Ecclesiasticus nor the Maccabees and yet he profesâ—eth that he made very diligent search to set downe a perfect Cannon thereof And this is likewise confessed by Bellarmine many ancients saith he as namely Melitoâ— did follow the Hebrew Canon of the Iewes Of Communion under both kinds and number of Sacraments Iustin Martyr saith they which are called Deacons among us give to every one that is present of the consecrated Bread Wineâ— adding withal as Christ coÌ„manded them now these words which mention Christs Commandement Bellarmine would haue to belong to the Consecration only not to the Communion whereas Iâ—stin extends Christs precept to both both being injoyned in that precept doe this in remembrance of me so that we have both Christs precept and this Ages practice for our Communion in both Clemens Alexandrinus wrote a booke against the Gentiles which he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as ye would say woven after the manner of coverings mixed with the testimonies of Scriptures Poets Philosophers and Histories and therein he hath these words When they distribute the Holy Eucharist as the custome is they permit every one of the people to take a part or portion thereof and what he meaneth by Eucharist himselfe explaineth saying the mingling of the drinke and of the Water and the Word is that which we call the Eucharist so that according to him not Bread onely but Bread and Wine is the Eucharist and of this every one of the people participated in his time and therefore all dranke of the Cup. Iustine Martyr in his Apologie for the Christians specifies no other Sacraments than Baptisme and the Lords Supper and yet in that treatise of his he was justly occasioned to mention the Sacraments of the Church and there he relates the manner of their Church-service Liturgies and Commnuion so that there had beene a fit place for him to have named those other five if the Church had then knowne them Of the Eucharist That the substance of Bread and Wine remaineth in the Sacrament after the words of Consecration albeit the use of the elements bee changed is cleere by the Fathers of this Age. Iustine Martyr saith that the elements of Bread
Waldenses from such foule imputations The first Article Objected Parsons saith they held that when the flesh doth burne that all conjunction with man or woman is lawfull without destinction The three Conversions the 3 part chap. 3 nu 12. Answere Indeed many have borne false witnesse against them but their witnesse doe not agree together I know this is objected by Parsons and others and yet Reinerius who was one of their Inquisitors said of them as is already alleaged that they made a great shew of Godlines and lived righteously before men and beleeved all things rightly touching God and concerning all other Articles of the Creed Againe Casti sunt Leonistae the Leonist's liue chastly and againe Quae libet naturâ turpia devitant They avoyd whatsoever is naturally dishonest Claudius Seisselius Archbishop of Turin a man in great credit under Lewes the twelfth King of France although he had written a booke expresly against the Waldenses yet he thus farre cleereth them saying that it makes much for the confirmation and toleration of that profâ—ssion that setting aside differences in point of Faith in other things they welnigh leade a more godly life than other Christians for they sweare not unlesse they he constrayned they seldome take the name of the Lord in vaine and they are very carefull to keepe their promise When some of the Cardinalls and Prelates accused the remainders of the Waldenses in Merindol and Cabriers that they were Heretickes sorcerers and incestuous persons and thereupon mooved that good King Lewis the twelfth to roote them out the Waldenses having notice hereof sent their Deputies to his Majesty to declare unto him their innocencie whereupon the Prelates were instant upon the King not to give such Heretikes any accesse or audience but the King answered that if he were to make warre against the Turke he would first of all heare him whereupon the King sent master Adam Fume his Master of Requests and one Doctor Parvi his confessor to search and inquire both into their life and religion the Commissioners accordingly visited those places and upon their returne related to the King what they had found namely that Infants were baptized the Articles of faith were taught the Lords Prayer the ten Commandements the Lords day observed the Word of God Preached and no shew of wickednesse or fornication to be perceived amongst them onely they found not any Images in their Churches nor any ornaments belonging to the Masse The King hearing this report of the Commissioners sayd and he bound it with an oath that they were better men than he or his people better than himselfe and the rest of his subjects And thus we have cleared the Waldenses from Parsons his first imputation a foule slander indeed but yet such as we finde was cast upon the auncient Christians as well as upon them and most unjustly and untruely upon both of them Object They held that it was not lawfull for Christians to sweare at all for any cause whatsoever because it is written Doe not sweare Matthew 5. Iames 5. They held also that the magistrate ought not to condemne any to death because it is written Iudge not Matthew chap. 7. Luke chap. 6. Parsons loco citato Answere Claudius Seissel as before is alleadged saith indeed that they doe not sweare unlesse they be constrained belike then being lawfully called they refuse not to sweare in Iudgement in triviall matters they would not sweare rashly according whereunto they alleadged our Saviours precept besides they affirme that there are lawfull oathes tending to the honour of God and their Neighbours good and they alleadge that place in the sixth to the Hebrewes 16. that an oath for confirmation to them is an end of all strife The other cavill arose upon their complaining that the magistrates delivered them to death without any other knowledge of the cause than the bare report of their Inquisitors Priests and Friers who were parties and their professed enemies otherwise the Waldensian doctrine was that they were not to suffer the Malefactour to live Object They hold that the Apostles Creed is to be contemned and no account at all to be made of it and that no other prayer is to be used but onely the Pater Noster set downe in Scripturâ— Parsons quò suprà Answere This is an idle cavill for Reinerius hath already told us that they beleeve all the Articles contained in the Creed besides in their bookes they have very good and Catholike expositions of the Creed Doe these men then slight the Creed They doe not indeed hold the Creede to be a prayer no more doe they that of the Angels Haile to Mary they hold it to be a salutation and no direct invocation as Claudius Seissel saith it followes not hence because they hold not the Creede nor the Angelicall Salutation to be any direct prayer that therefore they neglect the Creede The other allegation is as idle for their owne writers Reyner and others record divers other of their prayers as for grace before meate this He that blessed the five Barly loaves and two Fishes in the Desert to his Disciples blesse this table unto us and after meate thus God which hath given us corporall food give us also spirituall life Object They held that the power of consecrating the body of Christ and of hearing confessions was left by Christ not onely to priests but also to lay-men if they be just Parsons ibid. Answere The first part of this Article they held not but rather the contrary that neither Priests nor Laikes could consecrate the body of Christ for Reinerius saith They doe not beleeve the Sacrament to be the true body and blood of Christ but the bread consecrated is called in a certaine figure the body of Christ as it is sayd the Rocke was Christ and the like For the second they sayd truely and we hold that we are to confesse our faults one to another Iames 5 16. yea though they be Lay-people so they be godly and discreet and able to counsaile and comfort us but especially to the discreet and learned Minister of Gods Word to receive from him Ghostly comfort counsaile and upon our hearty repentance absolution Object They held that no Priests must have any living at all but must live on almes and that no Bishops or other dignity is to be admitted in the Clergie but that all must be equall Parsons ibid. Answere That their Ministers may not lawfully take and enjoy livings or that it was sinne so to doe they taught not but were sorry they had not sufficient stayed livings for them whereby they might have more time to their studies and greater opportunity to instruct them with necessary doctrine and knowledgeâ— but they were not ashamed of their Ministers that were content to worke with their hands to get their living as the Apostles had done before them So that if they spoke ought that looked that way
Fishers Relation of his third Conferâ—nce Vpon this very point saith hâ—e that we acknowlâ—dge An honest ignorant Papist may be saved they worke upon the advantage of our Charitie and their owne want oâ— it to abuse the weake but if they would speak truly and say many Protestants indeed conâ—esse there is salvation possible to bee attained in the Romane Church but yet the errours of that Câ—uâ—ch aâ—e so many and some such as weaken the foundation that it is very hard to goe that way to heaven especially to them that have had the truth manifested unto them the heart of this Argument were broken The force of this Argument lyes herein that wee and ouâ— advâ—rsaries consent that there is salvation to some in the Romane Church What would you have us an malicious at least as rash as your selves are to us and denye you so much as possibilitie of salvation if we should we might make you in some things straine for a proofe But we have not so learned Christ as either to returne evill for evill in this hâ—adie course or to deny salvation to some ignorant silly Soules who hold the foundation Christ Iesus and survey not the building But this was an old tricke of the Donaâ—ists who shut up the Church in Africke as they doe now in Rome and the Romane See For in the point of Baptisme Whether that Sacrament was true in the Catholicke Church or in the part of Donatus they exhorted all to bee Baptized among them Why Because both parts granted that Baptisme was true among the Donatists which that peevish sect most unjustly denied the sound part as Saint Austine delivers it I would aske now had not the Orthodoxe Bapâ—isme among them because the Donatists denyed it injuriously or should the Orthodoxe against truth hâ—ve denied Baptisme among the Donatists to cry quiâ—tance with them Besides what have they gained by some Protesâ—ants confession saying thaâ— some might be saved in the Romane Church this terme Might be Saved grâ—nts but a Possibilitie to some weâ—ke ones no sure or safe way to salvaâ—ion For a safe way they can hardly goe who pertinaciously adhere to their errours having sufficient meanes to be betâ—er informed Howsoever their reckonâ—ng is like to bee â—he heavier who for some by-respects oppose a knowâ—e truth which they either doe or might beleeve if their hearts were upright and not perversly obstinate and not onely so but draw other weâ—ke ones to their bent Saint Augustine saith There will be ever a difference betweene an Hereticke and a plaine well meaning man thâ—t is mis-led and bâ—leeves an Hereticke God pittieth the blind that would faine see and cannot but wiâ—l he pitty them that may see and will not that harden themselves in their affected wilfull blindnesse he delivered Ionas from dâ—owning in the bottome of the Sea will you plung your selves therefore to see if God will deliver you Because we grant saith that most learned Prelate Doctor Vsher that some may scape death in Cities and Streets inâ—ected with the Plaguâ— will you therefore be so foole hardy after warning givâ—â— of the present danger as to chuse to take up your lodging in a Pest-house if you doe we may well say in our Câ—arity Lord have mâ—rcie upon you but you may justly feare that you dangerously tempt the Lord to send you Strong delusion to beleeve a lye bâ—cause you received not the love of the truth to beleeve it Lâ—stly if we grant you a possibility of salvation and you deny the same to us which yet is not yours to give or to withhold â—hâ—s sheweâ—h not thaâ— you have moâ—e truth on your side than wee but rather that wee have more charity than you who without truth or modesty aâ— our learned Provâ—st of Queenes Colledge in Oxford hath showne in his Answer to Charity mistaken dare afâ—â—rme that Protestancie destrâ—yeth salvation Bâ—â— lâ—t nâ—t the Protestant bâ—e discouraged with this hâ—â—dy censure for wee are confident that the faith pâ—oâ—essed in the Church of England is the Catholike Oâ—thâ—doxe and saving â—aith and we can shew good â—eason â—oâ— it For to bâ—leeve the Scripture of the two Tâ—staments to bâ—lâ—â—ve the thâ—ee Câ—eeds in the sense of the ancient Pâ—â—â—itive Chuâ—ch to receive the foure great generall Counâ—â—ls so mâ—â—h magnified by antiquity to admit What ever the Fathers for the first five hundred yeares with joynt consent agreed upon to bee beleâ—ved as a necessary point 〈◊〉 salvation or at least-wise to bee humbly silent not presuming to condemne the same is a faith in which to live and die cannot but give salvation specially being accompaâ—ied with a godly life and a faithfull death Now whether it bee wisedome in such a point as Salvation is to forsâ—ke a Church in the which the gâ—ouâ—d of salvation is fâ—â—me to follow a Church in which it is possiblâ— oâ—e may bee saved but very probable one may doe woâ—sâ— if he looke not well to the foundation judge yeâ—â— I am sure Saint Augustine thought it waâ— not and judged it A great sinne in point of salvation for a man to preferr◠〈…〉 incertainties and naked â—osâ—ibilities bâ—fore an 〈◊〉 and certaiâ—e course Now this â—ulâ— of Saâ—nt Augustines makes for us for wee goe upon certâ—inâ—â—â—s anâ— walke in the Via tuâ—a the safe way â—s thâ—t leâ—rnâ—d Knight and my worthy good 〈…〉 hath showne at large 〈…〉 bâ—ene said the vanity of the 〈…〉 for as Master â—â—del saith in hi◠〈…〉 Wadâ—sworths motives by the 〈…〉 bâ—tter to have become a Iewish Proâ—elite iâ— thâ— Apoâ—â—les time then a Christian for the Christians acknowledged the Iewes to bee the people of God and sâ—iled them brethren notwithstanding their zeale to the Ceremonies and traditions of their Fathers excused their ignorance and baâ—e with â—hem Whereas on the contrary they called those that professed Christ Heretikesâ—nd â—nd Sâ—ctaries accursed thâ—m drew them out of their Synagogues imprisoned them as you doe now the Protestants By like reason a Pagan in Saint Augustines time should rather have made himsâ—lfe a Christian among the Donatists then with the Catholikes For as it is already noted the Catholikes granted the Donatists Baptisme to be true and accounted them breâ—hren the Donatists on the contrary renounced their brother-hood and baptisme both rebaptized such as fell to their side used these formes of speech to their friends Save thy soule become a Christian like to those termes used by our Romish Reconcilers at this day PA. Prove what you say that in poynt of Religion you goe the safe way PRO. This appeares to be true in that divers of your side the moderate and sober sort at least doe oftentimes grant our Conclusions and that in sundry things our course is the safer As in making no Image of God In trusting onely in the merits of Christ. Iâ— worshipping none but the Trinity In directing our pâ—ayers to our Lord Iâ—sus Christ alone In allowing
Moone The Church sometimes shines in the cleare dayes of peace and is by and by over-cast with a cloud of persecution as the same Austin saith The Moone is not alwayes in the Full nor the Church ever in her glorious aspect PA. If your Church were alwayes visible where then was it before Luthers time PRO. I might also aske you Where was a great part of your Religion before the Trent Councell which was but holden about the yeere 1534. Now for our Religion it was for substance and in the affirmative parts and positive grounds thereof the question being not of every accessory and secondary poynt it was I say contained in the Canonicall Scriptures wheras you are driven to seeke yours in the Apocryphall in the Trent Creed the Trent Councell Now ours it was contained in the Apostles Creed explayned in the Nicene and Athanasian confirmed by the first foure generall Councels taught in the undoubted writings of the true ancient and orthodox Fathers of the primative Church justiâ—ied from the tongue and penne of our adversaries witnessed by the confessions of our Martyrs which have suffered for truth and not for treason This is the Evidence of our Religion whereas for proofe of yours in divers poynts you are driven to flie to the bastard Treatises of false Fathers going under the name of Abdias Linus Clemens S. Denys and the like as sometime Perkin Warbek a base fellow feigned himselfe to be King Edward the fourths sonne and for a time went under his name and yet these Knights of the poste must be brought in to depose on your behalfe though others of your side have cashiered them as counterfeits PA. If your Professors were so visible name them PRO. This is no reasonable demaund you have rased our Records conveied our Evidence clapt up our Witnesses and suborned your owne you have for your owne advantage as is already showen by that learned Antiquary of Oxford D. Iames and others and shall God willing appeare in the Centuries following you have I say corrupted Councells Fathers and Scriptures by purging and prohibiting what Authors and in what places you would and now you call us to a tryall of Names PA. Particular men may mis-coat the Fathers but our Church hath not PRO. You have witnesse your expurgatory and prohibitory Indices or Tables whereof since my selfe have of late bin an eye-witnesse and seene divers of them both in the publike and private Libraries in Oxford I will therefore acquaint the Reader with the mysterie thereof When that politike Councel of Trent perceived that howsoever men might bee silenced yet bookes would be blabs and tell truth they devised this course They directed a Commission to a company of Inquisitors residing in severall places and therby gave them power to purge and prohibit all manner of Bookes Humanitie and Divinitie ancient late in such sort as they should think fit Vpon this CoÌ„mission renued as occasion served the Inquisitors set forth their severall expurgatory and prohibitory Indices printed at Rome in Spaine in the Low-countries and elsewhere and in these Tables yet to be seen they set down what books were by theÌ„ forbidden and which to be purged and in what places ought were to bee left out whensoever the Workes should be printed anew for according to their Tables or Corrections books were to be printed afresh Now to make sure worke they got as many of the former Editions of the Fathers workes as they could into their hands and suffered no new Copie to come foorth but through their fingers purged according to their Receit neither feared they that their adversaries would set foorth the large volumes of the Fathers Workes or others having not the meanes to vent their Impressions being forbidden to be sold in Catholike countries By this meanes the Romane Censurers thought to stop all tongues and pennes that none should hereafter speake or write otherwise than the Trent Councell had dictatedâ— and so in time all Evidence should have made for the Romane cause Hereby the Reader may perceive that had their device gone on they would in time by their chopping and changing the writings of the Ancient at their pleasure have rased and defaced whatsoever Evidence had made for us and against themselves But so it pleased God that howsoever they had carried the matter cunningly in secret yet at length all comes out their plot was discovered and their Indices came into the Protestants hands The Index of Antwerpe was discovered by Iunius the Spanish and Portugall was never knowne till the taking of Cales and then it was found by the English PA. Might wee not purge what was naught PRO. Indeed if you had purged or prohibited the lewd writings of wanton Aretine railing Rablais or the like you had done well but under-hand to goe and purge out the wholesome sentences of the Fathers such as were agreeable to the Scriptures thus to purge those good old men till you wrung the very blood and life out of them bewrayeth that you have an ill cause in hand that betakes it selfe to such desperate shifts Neither can you justly say that you have corrected what others marred for it was your side that first kept a tampering with the Fathers Works and corrupted them Francis Iunius reports that hee comming in the yeare 1559 to a familiar friend of his named Lewis Savarius Corrector of a Print at Lâ—yden found him over-looking Saint Ambrose Workes wâ—ich Frâ—llonius was printing whereof when Iunius commended the elegancie of the Letter and Edition the Corrector told him secretly it was of all Editions the worst and drawing out many sheets of now waste paper from under the table told him they had printed those sheetes according to the ancient and authenticke Copies but two Franciscan Fryers had by their authoritie cancelled and rejected them and caused other to bee printed and put in their roomes differing from the truth of all their owne books to the great losse of the Printer and wonder of the Corrector so that had yoâ— prevailed neither olde nor new Greeke nor Latin Fathers nor later Writers had been suffered to speake the truth but eiâ—her like Parraâ—s been taâ—ght to lispe Popery or for ever beeâ— put to silâ—nce The best is the Manuscripts which by Gods providence are still preserved amongst us they mâ—ke for us as D. Iames excellently vers'd in Antiquitie hath showen at large PA. Have â—ee purged ought in the Fathers or Scriptures that was not to bee purged PRO. You have as appeares by these instances following St. Chrysostome in his third Sermon uâ—on Lazarus and elsewhere maintaineth thâ— peâ—spicuitie and plainnesse of the Scripâ—ures saying That in divine Scriptures all necessary things are plaine Hee likewise holdeth that faith onely sufficeth in stead of all saying This one thing I will affirme That faith onely by it seâ—fe saâ—eth In like sort Saint Hierome holds That faith only justifieth that workes doe not justifie that
they do meane the Pope for the time being Now to this height the Pope came under pretence of the Churches government the Churches discipline racking the spirituall censure to a civill punishment by the Church solemnities in crowning Emperors by his Excommunications Absolutions and Dispensations he rose to his greatnesse of state by the doctrine of workes meritorious Iubilees Pardons and Indulgences hee maintained his State And now I come to shew out of good Authors that in nine severall weighty poynts of Religion the best guides of Gods Church for the space of 1500 yeares have taught as the Church of England doth THE FIRST CENTVRIE From the first yeare of Grace unto the yeare One Hundred Christ Iesus and his Apostles the Protestants Founders PAPIST WHom doe you name in this first Age that taught the Protestant Faith PROTESTANT I name our blessed Saviour Christ Iesus and his Apostles Saint Paul and his Schollers Titus and Timothie together with the Churches which they planted as that of the Romanes Corinthians and the rest These I name for our first Founders and top of our kin as also Ioseph of Arimathea that buried Christs body a speciall Benefactor to the Religion planted in this land These taught for substance and in the positive grounds of religion as we doe in our Articles Liturgies Homilies and Apologies by publike authoritie established in our Church of England Besides these there were but few Writers in this age whose undoubted Works have come to our hands yet for instance sake I name that blessed Martyr of Christ Ignatius Bishop of Antioch who for the name of Iesus was sentenced to bee dâ—voured of wild beasts which hee patiently indured saying I am the Wheat or graine to bee ground with the teeth of beasts that I may be pure Bread for my Masters tooth let fire rackes pulleys yea and all the torments of Hell come on mee so I may winne Christ. Here also according to the Roman Register I might place Dionysius Areopagita whom they usually place in this first Age as if hee were that Denys mentioned in the Actes whereas indeed hee is a post natus and in all likelihood lived about the fourth Age and not in this first for Denys saith That the Christians had solemne Temples like the Iewes and the Chancell severed with such and such sanctification from the rest of the Church whereas the Christians in this fiâ—st age made their assemblies to prayer both in such private places and with such simplicitie as the Apostles did and as the times of persecution suffered them Againe Denys tells us that when hee wrote Monkes were risen and they of credit in the Churches and many Ceremonies to hallow them whereas in the Apostles time when the true Dionysius lived Monkes were not heard of yea Chrysostome saith That when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Hebrewes there was not then so much as any footstep of a Monke PA. I challenge Saint Denys for ours hee was as our Rhemists say all for the Catholikes PRO. Take him as he is and as he comes to our hands hee is not wholly yours but in some things cleane contrary to you as namely in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper wherein you vary from us most Besides hee hath not your sole receiving of the Priest nor ministring under one kind to them who receive nor Exhortations Lessons Prayers in a tongue which the people understand not he hath not your Invocation of Saints noâ— adoration of creatures nor sacrificing of Christ to God nor praying for the soules in purgatory so that in things of substance and not of ceremony onely he is ours and not yours as I hope will appeare by his Writings for we will for the time suppose him to be a Father of this first age although the bookes which beare Saint Denys his name seeme to bee written in the fourth or fifth age after Christ. PAP Can you proove that Christ and his Apostles taught as you doe PRO. Wee have cleare testimonies of Scripture which appoint Gods people to receive the blessed Cup in the Sacrament and to be present at such a divine service as themselves understand wee have expresse command forbidding Image-worship against Invocation of Saints it is said that Abraham knoweth us not and Isaac is ignorant of us and the blessed Angel refused all religious honour and Adoration Likewise against Merit of workes and workes of Super-erogation it is said that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall bee revealed in us and that wee are unproâ—itable servants when we have done all that was commanded us we have but done that which was our dutie to doe and the like PA. You alleadge Scripture and so doe wee yea in some things the Scripture is plaine for us as where it is said This is my Bodie PRO. What though it make for you in shew so doth it for the Anabaptists where it is said that the Christians had all things common you will not hence inferre that because in such an extremitie their charitie for the reliefe of others made things common concerning the use that therefore we should have no property in the goods that God hath given us It is not the shew and semblance of words but the sense thereof that imports the truth Saint Paul sayes of his Corinths Ye are the body of Christ yet not meaning any Transubstantiation of substance but hâ—reof anon in his due place PA. The Scriptures make not for you but as you have translated them PRO. For any point we hold we referre our selves to the Originalls yea wee say further let the indifferent Christian Reader who hath but tollerable understanding of the Latine Tongue compare our English translations with those which your owne men Pagnine Arias Montanus and others have published and they will finde but little countenance for Poperie and namely for Communion in one kind and Service in a strange Tongue which as is already proved hath bene decreed directly contrary to Gods expresse word but let us come to the particulars Of the Scriptures sufficiency and Canon The Church of England holds that Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation so that theâ—e is no doctrine necessary for our everlasting salvation but that is or may bee drawne out of that Fountaine of truth as being either expressely therein contained or such as by sound inference may bee deduced from thence and this is witnessed by Saint Paul saying that they are able to make us wise unto salvation that the man of God may bee perfited and throughly furnished unto all good workes which they should not bee able to doe if they contained not a perfect doctrine of all such poynts of faith as we are bound to bâ—leeve and duties to bee practised And if it be said that S. Paul speakes of the man of God such an one as
find it to bee bread but the body of Christ insomuch as Bellarmine upon this testimonie saith Quid clariùs dici potest What can be said more plainely Answer Cyril saith The bread which is seene of us is not bread and the same Cyril saith of the Water in Baptisme it is not simple water let the one satisfie the other Cyril saith of the bread as hee doth of the oyle that it is no bare simple or common oyle but Charisma the type and symboll of a spirituall gift and so hee meant of the bread the Consecrated bread that it is no ordinary or common bread but of different use and servâ—ce and yet theâ—ein not any change of substance at all Neither doth Cyril say as Bellarmine corrupâ—ly traâ—slateth it or at leâ—st mâ—kes use of a corrupt trâ—nslation That the body of Câ—rist is given Sub spâ—cie panâ—s Vnder the forme of bread but as it â—s in the Greeke Vnder the type of bread even as hee saith afterwards Thinke not tâ—at you taste bread but tâ—e Antitype of Christs body so that hee calleth the consâ—crated bread and wine â—ypes and Antitypes that is signes of the body and blooâ— of Christ. Now whereâ—s Cyril would not have us judge of thâ—s Sacrament by our taste or sense it iâ— true that as the Bread and Wine are â—ound and whiâ—e aâ—d sweet in taste our bodily senses mâ—y indeed perceive thâ—m but as they are types and Aâ—titypes that is signâ—s Of the body and blood â—f Christ so â—hey aâ—e spiâ—itually to bee discernâ—d with our understanding onely as the Reverend and learned Dâ—ctor Morton Lo. Bishop of Coventry and Lichfiâ—ld and now Lord Bishop of Durâ—sme hath observed Lastly the same Cyril saith That wee have râ—pentance and remission of sinnes confined onely to the terme of thâ—s prâ—sâ—nt life More might be alleadged out of the same â—yâ—il but these may suâ—fice to shew what hee in his Caâ—echismes taught his schollers touching the Scripturâ—s sâ—fficâ—encie aâ—d Caâ—on Communion in both kinds the Euchaâ—ist and Purgatory Before I cloâ—e up this Centurie I must needs speake of Constantinâ— the Great and the two generall Councelâ— held in this Age. In â—his age flourished the honour of our nation that Christian Pâ—ince Constantine the Great borne of our coâ—nâ—rey woman Hâ—lâ—na both of them Britaines by biâ—thâ— Royâ—ll by descent Saints by estiâ—ation and true Catholikes by profession PA. Doâ—tor 〈◊〉 and Master Brerely show them to have bâ—â—nâ— o◠〈…〉 PRO. Our reverend and learned Doctor Doctor Abbot late Bishâ—p of Salisbury hath sufficiently confuted your Bishop and acquitted them from being Papists since they held not the grounds of Popery as at this day they are maintayned PA. If constantine were no Papist of what faith tâ—en was hee PRO. Hee was of the true ancient Christian Faith as may appeare by these instances following Hee held the Scriptures sufficient for deciding matteâ—s of Faith and accordingly prescribed this rule to the Nicene Councell saying Because the Apostles Bookes doe plainely instruct us in divine matters therefore we ought to make our Determinations upon Questions from words which are so divinely inspired he saith not that the Scriptures plainely teach us what to thinke of the nature and substance of God as Bellarmine would wrest it but also of the holy Law and things concerning Religion for so doe the words sound in the originall and herein saith Theodoret the greater part of the Councell obeyed the voyce of Constantine Constantine held it not the Popâ—s peculiar to summon generall Counâ—â—lls for hee called the Councell of Nice himselfe and therein sate as President and mâ—deratour receiving every mans opinion helping sometimes one part sometimes another reconciling them when they were at ods untill hee brought them to an agreement in the Faith The same Eâ—perour by his royâ—ll Letters Prescribed to the Bishops such things as belonged to thâ— good of Gods Church yea hee held himselfe to bee a Iuâ—ge and supreme Governour in Causes Ecclesiasticall for hee professeth speaking generally of all soâ—tâ— of men if any shall rashly or undadvisedly maintaine these pestilent assertions meaning the Arrians His saucinesse shall beâ— instantly curbed by the Emperours exâ—cution who is Gods Ministers Moreover Constantine never sought to the Pope for pardon hee never worshipped an Image never served Saint nor Shrine never knew the Masse Transubstantiation nor the halfe Communion hee prayed not for his Fathers soule at the performance of his Funeralls used no Requiems nor Diriges at his Exequies he wished not any prayers to bee made after his death for his owne soule but having received Baptisme newly before his death professed a stedfast hope that needed no such after-prayers saying Now I know indeed that I am a blessed man that God hath accounted mee worthy of immortall life and that I am now made partaker of the light of God And when they that stood about him wished him longer life hee answeâ—ed That hee had now attayned the true life and that none but himselfe did understand of what happinesse he was made partaker and that he therfore hastned his going to his God Thus Constantine dyed outright a Protestanâ— hee craved no after-prayers for his soule hee dreaded no Purgatory but dyed in full assurance of going immediately to his God Was this Prince now a Trent papist Now to proceed the fiâ—st Generall Councell in Christianitie after the Synod of the Apostles was that famous fiâ—st Councell of Nice consistiâ—g of 318. Bishops the greatest lights that the Christian world then had it was called about 325 yeares after Christ against Arrius that denyed Christ to bee veâ—y God from this Councell wee had oâ—r Nicen Creed it was summoned not by the thâ—n Bishop of Rome but by the Emperour Constantine Gathering thâ—m together out of divers Cities and Provinces as themsâ—lves have lâ—fâ—â—ccorded Wee produce the sixth Canon of this Councell against the Popes monarchicall Iurisdiction the â—enour thereof is this Let ancient customes hold that the Bishops of Alexandria should have the government over Aegypt Lybia and Pentapolis because also the Bishop of Rome hath the same custome as also let Antioch and other Provinces hold their ancient priviledges Now these words of the Canon thus limiting and distinguishing the severall Provinces and grounding on the custome of the Bishop of Rome that as hee had preheminence of all the Bishops about him so Alexandria and Antioch should have alL about them as likewise every Metropolitane within his owne Province these words I say doe cleerely shâ—w that before the Nicene Councell the Pope neither had preheminence of all through the world as now hee claymeth to bee an universall Bishop nor ought to have greater preheminence by their judgement than he had before time this being the effect of the Canon to wit That the Bishop of Alexandria shall have authority over his Diocesses as the Bishop of Rome
saw the evill that came upon the place Besides these learned Trium virs there lived in this age Theodoret bishop of Cyrus a towne in Syria Cyrill bishop of Alexandria Leo the great and Gelasius bishops of Rome Vincentius Lirinensis a great impugner of Heresies as also Sedulius of Scotland whose Collections are extant upon Saint Pauls Epistlâ—s and his testimonies frequently cited by the learned L. Primate Doctour Vsher in his Trâ—atise of the ancient Irish Religion Oâ— the Scâ—iptures sufficiencie Saint Augustine saith In those things which are layd downe plainely in the Scriptures all those things are found which appertaine to faith and direction of life Bellarmine would shift off this place by saying That Austine meant that in Scripture are contayned all such points as are simply necessary for all to wit the Creed and the Commandements but beside these other things necessary for Bishops and Pastors were delivered by tradition but this stands not with Austines drift for in the Treatise alleadged de Doctrinâ— Christianâ hee purposely instructeth not the people but Christian Doctors and Teachers so that where he saith In the Scriptures are plainely set downe all things which containe Faith Hope and Charity he meaneth as elsewhere hee expresseth himselfe all things which are necessarily to bee believed or done not onely of the Lay people but even of Ecclesiastickes In like sort the same father saith Those things which seemed sufficient to the salvation of believers were chosen to bee written Vincentius Lirinensis saith that the Canon or Rule of Scripture is perfect abundantly sufficent in it selfe for all things yea more than sufficient neither is this a false supposall as a Iesuit pretends it to be but a grounded truth and the Authors doctrine Liâ—inensis indeed maketh first one generall sufficient Rule for all things the sacred Scriptures Secondly another usefull in some cases onely yet never to be used in those cases without Scriptures which is the Tradition of the Vniversall Church and generall consent of Fathers The first was used by the ancient Church from the worth that is in it selfe the other is used to avoyd the jarring interpretations of pervâ—rse Heretikeâ— that many times abuse the sacred Rule Standard of the Scripture Now we admit the Churches Interpretation as ministeriall to holy Scripture so it be conformable thereunto And wee say with the learned Rejoynder to the Iesuit Malounes Reply Bring us now one Scripture expounded according to Lirinensis his Rule by the Vniversall consent of the Primitive Church to prove Prayer to Saints Image worship in your sense and we will receive it Saint Cyril saith that All things which Christ did are not written but so much as holy writers judged sufficient both for good manners and Godly faith And in another place he saith The holy Scripture is sufficient to make them which are brought uâ— in it wise and most approved and furnished with most sufficient understanding Saint Hierome reasoneth Negatively from the Scriptures saying As we deny not those things that are written so we refuse those things that are not written That God was borne of a Virgin we believe because we reade it That Mary did marry after shee was delivered we beleeve not because we reade it not Saint Chrysostome saith that All those things that are in holy writ are right and cleere that Whatsoever is necessarie is manifest therein yea he calleth the Scripture The most exact Balance Square and Rule of Divine veritie This was the Fathers Rule of Faith of old and the same a perfect one but the Papists now adayes make it but a part of a Rule halfe a Rule and piece it with Tradition Of the Scripture Canon Saint Hierome who was well skilled in the tongues travailed much and saw the choycest Monuments of Antiquitie as also the best Libraries that the Easterne Parts could afford and was therefore likely to meete with the best Canon nameth all the Bookes which we admit and afterwards addeth Whatsoever is besides these is to be put amongst the Apocrypha and that therfore the Booke of Wisedome of Iesus the Sonne of Syrach of Iudith Tobias and Pastor are not in the Canon The same Hierome having mentioned the Booke of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus and delivered his opinion that it is untruly called the Wisedome of Salomon and attributed to him then addeth That as the Church readeth Iudith Tobias and the Maccabees but receiveth them not â—or Canonicall Scriptures so these two Bookes â—amely the Wisedome of Salâ—mon and Iesus the Sonne of Syrach doth the Church reade for the edification of the pâ—ople not to confirme the authority of any doctrine in the Church Objection The Carthaginian Councel received those Books which you account Apocryphall Answer They received them in Canonem Morum not in Canonem Fidei It is true indâ—ed that Saint Austine and the African Bishops of his time and some other in that Age finding these Bookes which Hierome and others rejâ—ct as Apocryphall to be joyned with the other and together read with them in the Church seeme to account them to be Canonicall but they received them onely into the Ecclesiasticke Canon serving for Example of life and instruction of manners and not into any part of the Rule of Faith or Divine Canon as Saint Austine speaking of the Bookes of the Maccabees distinguisheth saying This reckoning is not found in the Canonicall Scriptures but in other Bookes as in the Maccabees plainely distinguishing betweene the Canonicall Scriptures and the Bookes of the Maccabees Wherein saith he There may be something found worthy to be joyned with the number of those miracles yet hereof will we have no care for that we intend the miracles Divini Canonis which are received in the Divine Canon Of the booke of Iudith he tels us The Iewes never received it into the Canon of Scriptures and withall there he professeth That the Canon of the â—ewes was most Authenticall Touching the bookes of Wisedome and Ecclesiasticus he tels us that They were called Salomons onely for some likâ—nâ—sse of Stile but the Learned doubt whether they bâ—e his Lastly the Councel of Carthage whereat Saint Austine was present Prescribing that no bookes should be read in the Church as Canonicall but such as indeed are Canonicall leaveth out the booke of Maccabees as it appeareth by the Greeke Edition though they have shuffled them into the Latine which argueth suspicion of a forged Canon Now to this ancient evidence of Hierome and Austine the Papists make but a poore Reply Canus saith that Hierome is no rule of Faith and that the matter was not then sufficiently sifièd Bellarmine saith I admit that Hierome was of that opinion because as yet a Generall Councel had decreed nothing touching those bookes and Saint Austin might likewise doubt thereof so that by Bellarmines confession Hierome
knowledge of Letters and study of Tongues specially the Greeke Latin began to spread abâ—â—ad thorow divers parts of the West Of this number were Emanuel Chrysoloras of Constantinople Theodorus Gaza of Thessalonica Georgius Trapezuntius Cardinall Bessarion and others in like sort also afterwards Iohn Capâ—io brought the use of the Greeke and Hebrew tongues into Germany as Faber Stapulensis observeth And in the beginning of this age Hebrew was first taught in Oxford as our accurat Chronologer Mr. Isaacson hath observed Now also lived Nicholas de Lyra a converted Iew who commented on all the Bible In this age there were divers both of the Greeke and Latin Church who stood for Regall Iurisdiction against Papall usurpation and namely Barlaam the Monke Nilus Archbishop of Thessalonica Marsilius Patavinus Michael Cesenas Generall of the gray Friers Dante the Italian Poet and William Ockam the English man sometime fellow of Merton Colledge in Oxford surnamed the Invincible Doctor and Scholler to Scotus the subtile Doctor Now also lived Durand de S. Porciano Nilus alleadgeth divers passages out of the generall Councels against the Popes supremacy and thence inferreth as followeth That Rome can not challenge preheminence over other Seas because Rome is named in order before them for by the same reason Constantinople should have the preheminence over Alexandria which yet she hath not From the severall and distinct boundaries of the Patriarchall Seas he argueth that neither is Rome set over other Seas nor others subject to Rome That whereas Rome stands upon the priviledge that other places appeale to Rome he saith That so others appeale to Constantinople which yet hath not thereby Iurisdiction over other places That whereas it is said the Bishop of Rome judgeth others and himselfe is not judged of any other he saith That St. Peter whose successour he pretends himselfe to be suffred himselfe to be reproved by S. Paul and yet the Pope tyrant-like will not have any enquire after his doings Barlaam prooveth out of the Chalcedon Councell Canon 28. That the Pope had not any primacy over other Bishops from Christ or S. Peter but many ages after the Apostles by the gift of holy Fathers and Emperours if the Bishop of Rome sayth hee had anciently the supremacy and that S. Peter had appointed him to be the Pastour of the whole Church what needed those godly Emperours decree the same as a thing within the verge of their owne power and jurisdiction Marsilius Patavinus wrote a booke called Defensor Pacis on the behalfe of Lewis Duke of Baviere and Emperour against the Pope for challenging power to invest and depose Kings Hee held that Christ hath excluded and purposed to exclude himselfe and his Apostles from principality or contentious jurisdiction or regiment or any coactive judgement in this world His other Tenets are reported to be these 1 That the Pope is not superiour to other Bishops much lesse to the Emperour 2. That things are to be decided by Scripture 3. That learned men of the Laiety are to have voyces in Councels 4. That the Cleargy and the Pope himselfe are to be subject to Magistrates 5. That the Church is the whole coÌ„pany of the faithfull 6. That Christ is the Head of the Church and appointâ—d none to be his Vicar 7. That Priests may marry 8. That St. Peter was never at Rome 9. That the popish â—ynagogue is a denne of theeves 10. That the Popes doctrine is not to be followed With this Marsilius of Pâ—dua there joyned in opinioÌ„ Iohn of Gandune and they both held that Clerkes are and should be subject to secular powers both in payment of Tribute and in iudgâ—ments specially not Ecclesiasticall so that they stood against the Exemption of Clerkes Michael Cesenas Generall of the Order of Franciscans stood up in the same quarrell and was therefore deprived of his dignities by Pope Iohn the two and twentieth from whom he appealed to the Catholicke universâ—ll Church and to the next generall Councell About this time also lived the noble Florentine Poet Dante a learned Philosopher and Divine who wrote a booke against the Pope concerning the Monarchy of the Emperour but for taking part with him the Pope banished him But of all the rest our Countrey-man Ockam stucke close to the Emperour to whom he sayd that if he would defend him with the sword he againe would defend him with the Word Ockam argueth the case and inclineth to this opinion that in temporall matters the Pope ought to be subject to the Emperour in as much as Christ himselfe as he was man professeth that Pilate had power to judge him given of God as also that neither Peter nor any of the Apostles had temporall power given them by Christ and hereof he gives testimony from Bernard and Gregory Ockams writings were so displeasing to the Pope as that he excommunicated him for his labour and caused his treatise or worke of ninety dayes as also his Dialogues to be put into the blacke bill of bookes prohibited and forbidden It is true indeed that Ockam submitted his writings to the censure and judgement of the Church but as hee saith to the judgement of the Church Catholike not of the Church malignant The same Ockam spoke excellently in the point of generall Councels Hee held that Councels are not called generall because they are congregated by the authority of the Romane Pope and that if Princes and Lay-men please they may be present have to deale with matters treated in general Councels That a generall Councell or that congregation which is commonly reputed a generall Councell by the world may erre in matters of faith and in case such a generall Councell should erre yet God would not leave his Church destitute of all meanes of saving truth but would raise up spirituall children to Abraham out of the rubbish of the Laiety despised Christians and dispersed Catholikes Wee have heard the judgement of the learned abroad touching Iurisdiction Regall and Papall let us now see the practice of our owne Church and State In the Reigne of King Edward the third sundry expresse Statutes were made that if any procured any Provisions from Rome of any Abbeyes Priories or Benefices in England in destruction of the Realme and holy Religion if any man sued any Processe out of the Court of Rome or procured any personall Citation from Rome upon causes whose cognisance and finall discussion pertained to the Kings Court that they should be put out of the Kings protection and their lands goods and chattels forfeited to the King In the Reigne of King Richard the second it was enacted That no Appeale should thenceforth be made to the Sea of Rome upon the penalty of a Praemunire which extended to perpetuall banishment and losse of all their lands and goods the words of the statute are If any purchase or pursue
acts of pietie and devotion without these frivolous Additions Gabriel Biel in his Lectures upon the Canon of the Masse saith That the Saints in Heaven by their naturall knowledge which is the knowledge of things in their proper kinde know no Prayers of ours that are here upon earth neither mentall nor vocall by reason of the immoderate distance that is betwixt us and them Secondly That it is no part of their essentiall beatitude that they should see our prayers or our other actions in the eternall word and thirdly That it is not altogether certaine whether it doe appertaine to their accidentall felicity to see our Prayers At length he concludeth That it may seeme Probable that although it doe not follow necessarily upon the Saints beatitude that they should heare our Prayers of congruitie yet it may seeme probable that God revealeth unto them all those suits which men present unto them By this we see that for the maine Gabriel concludeth that the Saints with God doe not by any power of their owne by any naturall or evening knowledge whatsoever understand our prayers mentall or vocall they and we are dâ—sparted so farre asunder as there can not bee that relation betweene us so that wee might haply call and they not bee Idonei auditores not at hand to heare us Now as learned Master Mountague now Lord Bishop of Chichester saith The Saints their naturall or evening knowledge onely is that which wee must trust unto as being a lonely in their power to use and to dispose and of ordinary dispensation In a word Peter Lombard saith It is not incredible that the soules of Saints heare the prayers of the suppliants Biel saith as we have heard That it is not certaine but it may seeme probable that God reveleth unto Saints all those suits which men present unto them here is nothing but probability and uncertainâ—y nothing whereon to ground our praying to Saints Of Iustification and Merits Trithemius the Abbot who lived in this age complaines that Aristotle and the heathen Philosophers were oftner alleadged in the Pulpit than Saint Peter and Saint Paul and therefore hee disswades his friend Kymolanus from too much study of profane sciences Let us saith hee seeke after true and heavenly wisedome which consisteth in faith onely in our Lord Iesus Christ working by love Cardinall Cusanus in a treatise of his De pace fidei brings in Dialogue-wise Saint Peter and Saint Paul instructing the severall nations of the world Greekes and Arabians the French and the Almanies Tartarians and Armenians and there in that conference hee laboureth to bring them to an agreement In pace fidei in the unity of faith and amongst other things he proves at large That wee are justified only by faith in Christ and not by any merit of our owne workes The doctriâ—e of free Iustification is excellently handled by Savonarola in his meditations upon the fiftieth Psalme which Possevine acknowledgeth to be composed by him whiles hee was in durance the day before hee was led to the stake Vpon occasion of those woâ—ds of the Psalmist They gat not the land in possâ—ssion through their owne sword neither was it their oâ—ne arme that helped them but thy right hand and thine arme and the light of thy countenance because thou hadst a favour unto them Psalm 4â— ver 3.4 â—e sweetly commâ—nteth on this sort Thou â—avâ—uredst them that iâ— they were not saved by their owne merits or workes lâ—st they should glory thâ—â—ein but even because of thy goâ—d will and pleâ—sure Vpon occasion of that Petition of the Lords prayer Forgive as our trespasses hee renounceth all merit of his owne workes and professeth in the words of the Pâ—ophet Esay That all our righteousnesse is as the rags of a menstruous woman Picus Mirandula treating on the same Petition saith it is certaine that wee are not saved for our owne merits but by the onely meâ—cy of our God Gerson taught that wee are not justified by the perfection of any inherent qualitie that all our inherent righteousnesse is imperfect yea that it is like the polluted rags of a menstruous woman that it cannot endure the triall of Gods severe judgement even Esay himselfe with the rest became vile in his owne eyes and pronounceth this lowly confession all our righteousnesse is as filthy rags The Cardinall of Cambray proveth by many reasons and authorities of Scripâ—uâ—e That no act of ours from how great charity soever it proceed can merit eternall life of condignity And whereas God is said to give the kingdome of hâ—aven for good merits or good workes the Cardinall for clearing hereof delivereth us this distinction That the word Propter or for is not to be taken Causally as if good workes were the efficient cause of the reward as fire is the cause of heate but improperly and by way of consequence noting thâ— order of oâ—e thing following oâ— another signifying that the reward is given after the good worke and not but after it yet noâ— for it so that a meritorious act is said to be a cause in respect of the rewâ—rd as Causa sine quâ— non also is said to be a caâ—se though it be no cause properly Thomas Walden professeth plainely his dislike of that saying That a man by his merits is worthy of the kingdome of heaven of this grace or that glory hoâ—sâ—ever certaine schoole-men that they might so spâ—ake had invented the termes of Condignity and Congruity But I repute him saith he the sounder Divine the more faithfull Catholike and more consonant with the holy Scriptures who doth simply deny such merit and with the qualification of the Apostle and of the Scriptures confesseth that simply no man meriteth the kingdome of heaven but by the grace of God or will of the Giver as all the former Saints untill the late Schoole-men and the Vniversall Church hath written Out of which words of Waldens wee may further observe saith the learned and Right Reverend Doctor Vsher Arch-bishop of Armagâ— both the time when and the persons by whom this innovation was made in these later dayes of the Church namely that the late Schoole-men were they that corrupted the ancient doctrine of the Church and to that end devised their new termes of the merit of Congruity and Condignity Paulus Burgensis expounding those words of David Psal. 36.5 Thy mercy O Lord is in heaven or reacheth unto the heavens writeth thus No man according to the common Law can merit by condignity the glory of heaven Whence the Apostle saith in the 8. to the Romans that the sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the future glory which shall be revealed in us And so it is manifest that in heaven most of all the mercy of God shineth forth in the blessed I will close up this point as also this age with that memorable