nothing is superfluously repeated so nothing is obscurely couered in it And though this Article He descended to hell wanted for a time in some Churches euen as some part of Scripture did yet was it retained by all Christian Writers as a ground of true religion from the Apostles time and professed in some Churches very anciently in their Creed and at last generally receiued in all places All the Fathers of Christes Church with one consent teach this as a point of the Christian faith That Christ after death descended to hell insomuch that Austen resolutely sayth Who but an Infidell will denie that Christ was in hell Where Abrahams bosome was neither was nor is agreed amongst the learned only Austen rightly inferreth out of Christes words That being a place of comfort and farre off aboue Hades where the rich man was tormented with a great Gulfe setled betwixt those two places it could be no part nor member of hell The rest which are very many appeare by the seuerall Titles ouer ech Page or by the Table prouided to finde the same with more facilitie THE SVRVEY OF CHRISTES SVFFERINGS FOR MANS REDEMPTION IT may seeme somewhat strange to thee Christian Reader as it doth likewise to me that one and the selfe same cause being twice now debated and discussed in writing on either side we should at the last be farther from agreeing on the true state of the controuersie than we were at the first entring into the matter If the fault be either in the doubtfulnesse of my words proposing it or in the diuersnesse of my mind defending it I refuse no reproch of follie and inconstancie but if I keeping close to the points which I first propounded and calling vpon the aduerse part with as great vehemencie and importunitie as I could to goe directly to the issue and no way to digresse from the things in question the Impugner trusting more to the couert of his words than to the soundnesse of his proofs will of purpose shunne the marke prefixed and roue at pleasure with doubtfull and deceitfull termes to hide the nakednesse of his side and to make the Reader beleeue he hath matter of moment when indeed he doth not so much as vnderstand himselfe or take any knowledge of the chiefest things which I obiect or alledge then is he woorthie to beare the blame who best deserueth it and thou Christian Reader mayest soone perceiue and assoone pronounce both for thine owne ease and for an end to be had in this strife for to thee the Confuter referreth himselfe and so doe I whether of vs flieth the touchstone of trueth and faileth in the due proofe of his doctrine as neere as God shall giue thee wisdome to discerne light from darknesse and grace to preferre trueth before falshood In the Preface of my Sermons published I much misliked and openly charged the ouer hastie Discourser that called himselfe H. I. for cleane changing the state of the first Question and to the maine diuision of his Treatise where he sayth The whole controuersie hath in it two points the first That Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God c I replied in my conclusion It was too much boldnesse to outface the world in print that this was the position which I impugned There were too many witnesses there for me to denie or for him to belie the Question he knew it well enough but he could not tell how to proue that which I then reproued and therefore he shranke from it and dallied with generall and doubtfull termes And lest either the patient Reader or strict Examiner should be forced farre to seeke for the chiefe points by me denied or affirmed in those Sermons I purposely and plainly numbred and deliuered them in such sort as none could mistake them but he that would wilfully ouerleape them My words thou wilt pardon me to repeat good Christian Reader that thereby thou mayest see whether I alter or new frame my first questions and resolutions as this Prater pretendeth by his euery where complaining of my manifolde ambiguities fallacies and contrâ—…rieties or he rather dissembleth the weaknesse and couereth the badnesse of his cause vnder certeine perplexed and confused phrases as anon thou shalt heare more at large These are my words in the foresayd Preface I laboured in these my Sermons to prooue these foure points First That it was no where recorded in holy Scriptures nor iustly to be concluded by the Scriptures that Christ suffered the true paines of Hell Secondly That as the Scriptures describe to vs the paines of the Damned and of hell there are manie terrors and torments which without euident impietie can not be ascribed to the Sonne of God Thirdly That the death and bloud of Christ Iesus were euidently frequently constantly set downe in the writings of the Apostles as the sufficient price of our Redemption and true meane of our Reconciliation to God and the verie same proposed in the figures resembled in the sacrifices of the Law and sealed with the Sacraments of the New testament as the verie ground-worke of our saluation by Christ and so haue beene receiued and beleeued in the Church of God foureteene hundred yeeres before any man euer made mention of hell-paines to be suffered in the soule of Christ. Lastly where the Scriptures are plaine and pregnant That Christ died for our sinnes and by his death destroyed him that had power of death euen the diuell and reconciled vs when we were strangers and enemies in the body of his flesh through death besides That the Holie ghost in these places by expresse words nameth the bodily death of Christ as the meane of our Redemption Reconciliation to God no considerate Diuine might affirme or imagine Christ suffered the death of the soule for somuch as the death of the soule must exclude Christ from the grace spirit and life of God and leaue in him neither faith hope nor loue sanctitie nor innocencie which God forbid any Christian man should so much as dreame And if any man to mainteine his deuice would inuent a new hell and another death of the soule then either Scriptures or Fathers euer heard or spake of they should keepe their inuentions to themselues it sufficed me to beleeue what I read and consequently not to beleeue what I did not reade in the Word of God which is and ought to be the foundation of our faith Whether there be any darkenesse or doubling in my speech I leaue it to thy censure good Christian Reader I affirme touching our redemption and reconciliation to God what the Scriptures affirme and as neere as I could in the selfe-same words I denied the late additions of some men in matters of so great weight which the Scriptures by their perpetuall silence denie and by their open and euident consequents disprooue and impugne If any man thinke my Sermons in these points lesse euident or pertinent to the purpose than my Preface let him looke
other Looke to the Story of Daniell and see whether he doth not say of him selfe that King Nabnchad-nezzar fell vpon his face 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and bowed himselfe to Daniell and willed them to offer Sacrifice and sweete odours vnto him This the King profered by Daniels owne confession and though we doe not doubt but Denâ—…el refused it and otherwise aduised the king yet there is no such thing recorded in the Text. Hence if you will conclude Daniel to be a false Prophet you shall shew your selfe to be a rash false and wicked teacher but if you will excuse him because he was one that feared God and knew his duty though there be no mention made of his deniall what spleene mooueth you to condemne Thaddeus being not him selfe the writer of the Storie and one that was not onely trained vp in Moses Law but a Disciple of Christs and sent by him to preach and which more is endued with the power of the holy Ghost to heale the sicke to plant the Gospell and conuert nations vnto the faith Fourthly I doe not see how it can possibly be true which this Thaddeus saith that Christ ascended vp to his Father with a great multitude seeing the Scripture sheweth how after fortie dayes he ascended in all their sights alone vp to heauen Might Christ doe nothing but he must first acquaint you with it that you take so straight a view who went vp to heauen with him The Apostle noteth that God said of his Sonne when he brought him into the world Let all the Angels of God worship him Can you tell when this was done Christ spoiled powers saith Paul and principalities and made an open shew of them It would trouble you to tell how where and when So Christ ascending on high led captiuitie captiue Who knoweth how farre or how many that he ascended to his Father with a multitude may be referred either to Angels or men If all the Angels adored him when he came into the world what did they when he ascended to heauen Nazianzene saith If Christ ascend to heauen ascend thou with him and ioyne thy selfe to the Angels that accompanie him or receiue him So Cyprian Non indiget vectoribus Angelis sed precedentes subsequentes applaudebant victori Christ ascending needed not Angels to beare him but they going before and following applauded him as a conquerer And Austen Sublatus est Christus in manibus Angâ—…lorum quando assumptus est in caelum non quia si non portarent Angeli ruiturus erat sâ—…d quia obsequebantur Regi Christ was caried vp by the handes of the Angels when he ascended to heauen not that he should haue fallen if he had not beene stayed by Angels but that they might serue their King And touching men why might not Thaddeus speake this of those that were raised out of their graues when Christ rose from the dead since they were partakers of Christs resurrection why should they be reiected from his ascension They rose from the dead not to die againe much lesse to bee left wandring on the earth Ascend before Christ they could not he was in all things as the head to haue the preeminence Then must they ascend with him or after him neither of which is expresly mentioned in the Scriptures It appeareth by Tertullian the Church in his time was opposite to his conceit and made him this answere Our abode after death which there is called sleeping is in Paradise quò iam tunc Patriarchâ—… Prophetae appendices dominicae resurrectionis ab inferis migrauerunt whither the Patriarkes and Prophets that were dependents on the Lords resurrection pâ—…ssed euen then with him FROM THE PLACES BELOW Cyprian saith of Christ spolians Inferos captiuos praemittens ad superos spoiling the places below and sending the captiues before towards heauen Austen saith Reddunt Infernavictorem superna suscipiunt triumphantem Hell restoreth him a conquerer and heauen receiueth him a Triumpher Where then the Apostle saith that Christ triumphed ouer powers and principalities in his owne person and likewise that he ascended on high leading captiuitie captiue which prooueth his ascent to heauen to be the fulnesse and perfection of his triumph since triumphes amongst mortall men are not secret nor solitarie shall we thinke that Christs triumphant ascension to heauen was the close conueying of him alone into heauen neither Angels nor man attending nor magnifying him or rather as Peter saith he went to heaâ—…n hauing Angels powers and mights subiected to him that is all sorts and orders were they neuer so excellent high or mightie seruing submitting confessing and applauding his humane nature as the subduer of all his enemies and Sauiour of all his Elect Where you would faine perswade the world that the Apostles Creed was not in the primitiue Churches which we haue now yea that at â—…irst it had no exact for me at all This is the way to discredite all thinges besides your owne deuices You may say as much against some parts of the Scriptures as you do against some parts of the Creed For the Scriptures themselues were not fully receiued in all places no not in Eusebius time He saith the Epistle of Iames of Iude the second of Peter the second and third of Iohn are contradicted as not written by those Apostles The Epistle to the Hebrewes was for a while contradicted by the Church of Rome not to be Pauls Eusebius report is the truer because the Churches of Syria did not receiue the second Epistle of Peter nor the second and third of Iohn nor the Epistle of Iude nor the Apocalypse as appeareth to this day by the translation of the new Testament into their tongue which wanteth all these bookes as no approoued parts of Scripture The like might be sayd for the Churches of Arabia Will you hence conclude that these parts of Scripture were not Apostolike or that we neede not receaue them now because they were formerly doubted of The Creede we doe not vrge as vndoubtedly written by all the Apostles for then it must needes be Canonicall Scripture but we vrge it as the best and perfectest forme of faith which was deliuered to the Christians at the first planting of the Gospell by the direction and agreement of the Apostles and kept and professed in some of the most famous places which when the Church of Christ had well considered and examined she receiued and preferred before all others Now that this forme of faith which we haue was both in auncient times and diuers places preserued and professed as comming from the first erectors of the Churches you haue seene the testimonies of Cyrill for Ierusalem of Chrysostome for Antioche of Austen for Africa of Ruffine for Aquileia of Venantius for Poyctiers and this very Article he descended to hell is by them witnessed to haue beene then in their Creedes of whom
call it they labour more to impeach my proofes than to iustifie his former reasons and as it were slipping their owne necks out of the coller they inuade my Sermons with their whole might making the world beleeue I haue not only proued nothing but vttered such strange positions as no Diuinitie will endure Howbeit in their hoatest onsets I might soone perceiue they still wrested my words from their right sense as they did both Scriptures and Fathers and shrouded themselues vnder certaine generall and ambiguous phrases as That Christ suffered the proper wrath and meere iustice of God and full punishment of sinne in substance though not in circumstance with which they seeke to blinde the Reader and intangle the Opponent that he should neuer finde their exact and particular Assertion but they would alwayes be sure to haue a refuge to their large and vnknowen couerts from which they step not an inch and without which they say nothing for feare to be taken tardie with heresie or open impietie To waste time and enter brabbles about words my manifolde businesses and publike seruices did not suffer me and had not my late Soueraigne now with God at her last being at the Castle of Farnham taken knowledge of the things questioned betwixt me and them and directly commanded mee neither to desert the doctrine nor to let the calling which I beare in the Church of God to be trampled vnder foot by such vnquiet Refusers of trueth and authoritie I confesse to your excellent Maiestie I had made farre shorter worke with them and not spent a quarter of the paper which now is bestowed on the cause Vpon her appointment which was sacred to me notwithstanding my sicknesse which detained me two yeeres from studie whiles I was forced to seeke the recouerie of my health and many other affaires and attendances which continually called me away I beganne to reuiew the whole and since there was neither order nor method in their writing to trace them in their confusion which hath beene most tedious and in the end to let them see That neither for themselues nor against me in that whole Defence they haue vttered one true sentence though the waightiest and most of their matters besides their darke and deceitfull generalities be proposed with as it were in a sense it seemeth after a sort and such like wauering and perplexed speech I haue openâ—…d to your most sacred Maiestie most prudent Prince the cause and course of this large Suruey which it hath pleased God to reserue to your Princely view my late Soueraigne being taken out of this life the beginning of that Summer wherein I meant to commit it to the Presse and so had I done the first yeere of your Maiesties entring into this Realme had not the infection of your principall citie and my attendance on your Maiestie as my duetie bound me here in this countrey stayed me The points handled in the former Sermons and iustified in this later Suruey are many and those very materiall the chiefe heads whereof though they appeare aswell in the Titles ouer â—…ch Page as in the Table prepared of purpose to helpe the confusion of their Defence yet I will summarily contract and annex to these presents that your Princely wisdome may with more ease perceiue in euery of these things controuersed what I defend and censure the same when it hath pleased your Highnesse at your leasure to view the particular parts and proofs as it seemeth best to your learned and religious iudgement My only desire and humble petition to your most sacred Maiestic as becommeth a Christian Bishop is That in the foundations of our faith I meane the worke and meane of our Redemption and Reconciliation to God by Iesus Christ men be not suffered vnder your godly gouernment to preach or publish their vnwritten fansies and by their continuall Synecdoches which are manifest additions to the Word of God to alter and inuert the Trueth so plainly fully and frequently deliuered by the Apostles of Christ in the sacred Scriptures lest if they get this liberty with vnnecessary figures where they list to interlace the Word of God in these maine points of Saluation they leaue neither doctrine nor discipline sound in the end And as in the first question they adde to Christes sufferings the death of the soule and of the damned though there be no such thing warranted or witnessed in the Scriptures so in the second they outface Christes Descent to Hell with phrases and figures when it is plainly professed in the Creed where not phrases of speech but Articles of faith are deliuered and expressed in the Scriptures That Christes soule was not left or forsaken in hell and that very place alleaged by Peter as properly pertaining to Christ and no way common to him with Dauid who being a Prophet knew that God had sworne with an oath to raise vp Christ to set him vpon his Throne to make him Lord of all and Christ that is the anointed Sauiour of his people from Sinne Death and Hell And though all the Fathers Greeke and Latine from the Apostles times haue receiued beleeued and deliuered that to be the sense of Peters words as likewise of Pauls That Christ who ascended on high descended first to the lower parts of the earth yet they sticke neither at Scriptures Creeds nor Fathers but wrench and wrangle with them all subiecting euery thing to their sleights and shifts that they may raigne as they will in the Word of God Where likewise they shame not to condemne all the Fathers Greeke and Latine as conspiring against the Trueth and peruerting the Scriptures by altering the authentike vse of words for which they appeale to Plato and prophane Poets This the Treatiser blusheth not to write This Iaffirme It is only the Fathers abusiue speaking and altering the ancient sense of Hades that hath bred this â—…rrour of Christes descending into Hell their vnapt and perilous translating it into Latine Inferi and our naughtie and corrupt translating in English Hell hath confirmed the same And note heere this first It is a thing too rife with the Fathers yea with some of the ancientest of them to alter and change the authentike vse of words whereby consequently it is easie for errours and grosse mistakings to creepe in This lowd and lewd Proclamation he maketh against all Christian Writers Greeke Latine and English since the first foundation of the Church and yet therein erreth most absurdly and shamefully For the Greeke Fathers vse the word Hades as the Apostles and Euangelists did for the place where torments after this life are prepared for the wicked and the prophane Graecians one conceit of Socrates excepted did alwayes take it for a place of darkenesse vnder the earth whither they thought good and bad descended the wicked to punishment the better sort to such delights as carnall men dreampt of after death in their Elysian fields In both these questions I haue not spared most
redâ—…mption Fuller or more sufficient than eternall redemption we neither expect nor euer shall haue any since that which is eternall admitteth no change nor increase Then that redemption which Christ hath purchased by his blood is most full and sufficient by the Apostles testimony and sooner shal you proue your selfe to be no sound Teacher than that to be no sound dóctrine which hath so manifest witnesse in holy Scripture I teach that the ioynt sufferings of Christ the soule feeling what the body suffered are most auailable for our saluation and that besides the sacrifice of Christes body there is no other sacrifice of his soule which can be neither bodily nor bloody If I alone did teach thus and not the whole Church of Christ with me or if the sacred Scriptures which must guide vs all what to affirme and beleeue in the worke of our saluation did not teach the same I wâ—…re worthy to be challenged but if I say no more than the Scriptures do warrant me to speake looke you Sir Discourser to your late created Creed that can not admit nor endure the words of the Holy Ghost That the true sacrifice for sinne was but ONE and ONCE made and that it required the BODIE BLOOD and DEATH of the Offerer is not my addition but the Apostles assertion Christ appeared sayth Paul in the end of the world once to put away sinne by the sacrifice of himselfe and by reason he was an high Priest after the order of Melchisedech and a Minister of the true Tabernacle and Sanctuarie it was of necessitie he should haue somewhat also to offer Wherefore when he commeth into the world he saith to God Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not but a bodie hast thou ordained me It is written of me that I should doe thy will O God by the which will we are sanctified sayth the Apostle euen by the offering of the body of Iesus Christ once Who after he had offered this one sacrifice for sinne sitteth for euer at the right hand of God For with this one offering hath he consecrated or made perfect for euer them that are sanctified That likewise without effusion of blood there is no remission and therefore Christ with his owne blood entred in once vnto the holy place and obtained eternall redemption as also that the death of the testator must be where a testament is in either of these the Apostle is euident and vehement Now if you Sir Discourser can conuey these things to the soules proper and immediate suffering the paines of hell from the hand of God and shew how these resolutions of the Apostle perteine properly yea only to the soule of Christ we shal greatly woonder at your wisdome For thereby shall you prooue that the soule hath not only a body but blood also that may be shed which are miracles I will not say monsters both in Scripture and nature A spirit sayth Christ hath no flesh and bones as ye see me haue If you can teach Christ that he neuer knew before by my consent you shal be allowed for more than a Creed-maker Howbeit you will marre your owne market in so doing For if the soule consist of bodie and of blood what shall become of her proper and immediate facultie of suffering without and besides the bodie which you so highly aduanced in the beginning as to make it the proper and principall humane suffering If you shrinke from these follies or rather frensies as I hope you will then must you grant the ioynt sufferings of Christ I meane the wounding of his body and shedding of his blood euen vnto death as the Scriptures describe it to be the true sacrifice for sinne and consequently most auaileable for our saluation If you thinke I exclude the soule of Christ from her part in this bodily and bloody sacrifice of Christ I haue so often said and shewed the contrarie in my former reply that I am weary of iterating one and the same thing though you be neuer weary of mistaking it My former words I repeat againe that the Reader may see I haue no cause to recant or controle them The true sacrifice for sinne which Christ offered must haue the body the blood and the death of the offerer none of which agree to the soule of Christ though the body without a soule could be no reasonable sacrifice and therefore I exclude not the soule whose obedience innocence and patience concurred to sanctifie this sacrifice but I note the parts of the sacrifice for sinne by the Apostles doctrine were those which I named the blood and death of the Sacrificer both which must needs be found in his bodie and not in his soule These words you quote in the margent but you take not the paines to refute them much lesse to establish your vnbloody and vnbodily sacrifice of Christs soule suffering hell paines from the immediate hand of God Which kind of offering for sinne is as strange to the Scriptures and to all the learned and auncient fathers as the rest of your vnknowne doctrine And therefore you doe well to straine still on the same string by censuring what you mislike and neuer proouing what you affirme least you should marre your musicke if you should proceede to the parts or proofes of your new found Redemption by the paines of hell Yet somewhere I seeme to yeeld wholy as much as you affirme as where I say the same part indeede might suffer in Christ which sinned in man I meane the soule Somewhat it is you find so many writers new and old on your side you here no sooner the suffering of the soule or the anger of God against sinne in any man but you presently count him vnder your coulours Euen as I make for you when I write against you so doe the Auncient fathers and later Diuines whose names you abuse But if I meane as I ought then at least I follow your meaning It is a peece of your skill when I speake directly against your fancies to make men beleeue I meane as you doe or at least I ought so to meane Indeed if you may be vmpeere what I ought to meane I shall be sure to iump with your meaning but looke to my words good Sir and measure my meaning by that which I speake and not by that which you would haue me speake I said Christs soule might suffer for sinne what collect you thence I did not adde without or with the body so that all the sufferings of Christ inflicted on his body might be and were impressed in his soule and you nothing the nearer to your purpose of hell paines suffered in the Soule of Christ. But graunt the soule of Christ did suffer for sinne without concurrence of the body must it needs follow he therefore suffered the paines of hell how many griefes and paines of the soule are there not proceeding from the body
dereliction beseemeth the time place person and cause of Christ our ransome payer and purchaser of saluation with the price of his owne most direfull paines not any other farre fet or hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men As iâ—… trueth all those other senses hereof are which you rather embrace Somewhat it was you mustered foure places of Scripture so wisely chosen and well becomming your cause before you would offer to determine the matter and now puft vp with pure pride and prickt on with singular disdaine you censure the whole Church of Christ and the chiefe lights and leaders thereof I still except the Apostles as peruerters of the Scriptures traducing their expositions as farre fet hardly applied and strangely deuised by the braines of men But if you so much despise their learning religion and iudgements who were Gods blessed instruments to maintaine his trueth against all heresies and his Church against all Schismaticks and thinke your braines to be more than the braines of a man take heed lest your Reader begin to suspect you haue the braines of some other kinde If Athanasius Hilarie Chrysostome Basil Cyrill Epiphanius Ierome Ambrose Augustine Origen Tertullian and Leo may not be thought in the verdict of any wise or sober man as likely to vnderstand the sense of Christes words on the crosse as your humorous and presumptuous shall I say braine which you so much abase in others or head without braine then I must confesse my fault who loue not to leane to mine owne wit in cases of faith but rather preferre the religious and laborious inquiries of others chiefly of learned and ancient Fathers where it concerneth matters of saluation and the grounds of Christian religion which they carefully receiued and faithfully deliuered to Gods people so many hundred yeeres before we were borne And what maâ—…uell you be so bolde with the braines of men as you terme it when you take vpon you to ouerrule the words of the Holy Ghost For where in the sacred Scriptures the bloud of Christ shed for vs is recorded to be the true price of our redemption you controlling as well the Apostles as the Fathers tell vs here that Christ o Pa. 108. li. 23. purchased our saluation with the price of his most direfull paines where by direfull paines you meane hell paines that your speech in this case may be as new as your faith Belike then in your conceit Peter Paul and Iohn though Christes Apostles were neuer well Catechised nor instructed in their faith since they affirme p 1. Pet. 1. we were redeemed by the precious bloud of Christ and q Ephes. 1. we haue redemption in Christ through his bloud and Christ r Reuel 5. by his bloud redeemed vs vnto God which lesson you like not and therefore you say our saluation was purchased with the price of Christes direfull paines that is of hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ which hath no bloud vnlesse you can as easily deuise new bloud for Christes soule as you haue done a new hell for Christs sufferings Till you so do giue me and other Christians leaue to thinke that the second death which you dreame of did neither beseeme the time place person nor cause of Christ our Redeemer and therefore his words on the crosse could haue no such reference as you haue riddled in this place s Defenc. pag. 108. li. 27. Your expositions are sixe in number the first is that when Christ on the crosse cried out My God my God why hast thou forsaken me by this word ME he should meane his Church for which you haue no reason in the world but the bare names of Austen Leo Athanasius The moe the senses may be of these words and euery of them agreeing with Christian pietie as I professed of them the lesse soundnesse is in your conclusion that would inferre vpon a strange and needlesse sense of these words your paines of the damned to be then suffered in the soule of Christ. And in denying your direfull exposition of Christes words I haue all the Fathers of Christes Church for 1400 yeeres of the same opinion with me And if your chiefe and capitall proofes were such newes to them what thinke you was the rest of your new faith They are sixe in number you say and they all can not stand together You are nimble in trifles and in substance no bodie Nor I nor any man liuing may take vpon vs to determine which shall be the meaning of Christes words when the words themselues admit and allow manie senses In this very case the persons and the parts forsaken the graces and degrees wherein and how farre that dereliction might extend receiue diuers opinions and though they be different they are not repugnant the one to the other And yet it is no newes in many places of holy Scripture by reason of the different or repugnant significations of the words circumstances of the sentence and degrees of extension and intension in many things to finde contrarie iudgements of men euen of the same words and things in holy writ Neither doe diuers expositions disgrace the word of God so long as they containe nothing repugnant to the text it selfe in that or any other place but shew rather the depth of Gods wisedome which incloseth many things in few words and often passeth the reach and search of mans wit But you that carpe at euery thing besides your owne conceits would faine make your Reader beleeue that siue fingers and one hand ten toes and two feet can not stand together For the matter it selfe as dereliction is confessed on all sides because it is mentioned in the words of Christ so it may be questioned of what persons to what part and in what things Christ conceined and intended that for saking of which he spake For as God is sayd in the Scriptures to be present with vs diuers wayes and to diuers effects namely when he lightneth strengtheneth and inwardly guideth vs with the grace of his spirit or outwardly blesseth our wayes and heareth and helpeth vs in time of trouble so when he withdraweth or with holdeth any of these things from vs whether it be his helpe his blessing or his grace he is sayd to depart and to forsake vs. Now if we take forsaking in Christes words for the losing or lacking of Gods What forsaking could not be found in Christ. fauour grace or spirit it was not possible that any such forsaking should at any time be found in Christ our head though the members of Christ do all well deserue to be depriued of all these things and were depriued of them till by Christ they were restored Since then this kinde of forsaking could neuer be verified of Christes person but only of his members and he suffered for vs t Ephes. 2. 16. to reconcile vs to God by his Crosse these words of Christ on the Crosse some learned Fathers haue expounded to
significations of the same word in other places of Scriptures This therefore if you take not heed is a vaine ostentation of phrasiologie wherewith you thinke to make euery thing of any thing with your figuratiue and phrasitiue fansies Against this argument you say you haue one place Acts 2. 27. euen onely one where you thinke it is plaine that Christ saith God would not leaue his soule in hell That we haue or say wee haue but one place to prooue Christes descent to hell is a tale of your telling who seldome speake trueth but that you shall neuer with all the wittes and shifts you haue euert the vigour of this place that I say and you shall see by Gods grace I will pâ—…orme it But omit your Prefaces and goe to your proofes and then it will soone be seene where trueth is The Hebrew word controuersed is Sheól the Greeke Hades Now must the word Sheól and Hades needs signifie hell being applied to soules departed hence so indeed you auouch more confidently then truly and hâ—…reupon it seemeth you pawne the triall of this question You be so fine in your phrases that you can not frame your lippes to trueth I auouch indeed you can prooue no such thing and so I suppose it will fall out But in neither of these two pages which you quote doe I pawne the question on that issue and in the 312. by you cited in your margine I speake not a word of Sheol or Hades so well couched are your conceits that you cite things neither written nor ment Wee hope then when this proofe which you aske for against your opinion is shewed you will correct your opinion in this point Your proofes I feare will be so wide from the purpose that they will rather confirme then conuince mine assertion of Sheól but neuer make so deintie to bring foorth your choisest stuffe it will be some great onset that you make so many offers to it before you begin Let it be considered which the Psalmist hath of this matter What man liueth and shall not see death shall he deliuer his soule from the hand of Sheol Heere now the soule attributed to euery man liuing must be properly taken as well as in the former place Now then it is apparant that heere the soules of all men liuing both good and badde after death are appointed to Sheol For there is none that can possibly escape it saith the text Therefore in the Scripture sheôl and Hades applied to departed soules is not alwaies hell but the condition or place as well where the iust mens soules are after death as that where the damned are Heere is the Cannon that must craze the Creede and beate downe the walles of Christes Church but your deuices doe not deceaue mine expectation Set aside the wordes of the Psalmist which you violently draw to fit your dreames there is not one true nor likely word in all this reason First you say The soule attributed to euery liuing man must be properly taken you meane for his immortall spirit as well as in the former place where without question the soule of Christ as after death was seuered from his bodie This is a foolish and false position openly impugned by the Scriptures for the soule attributed to euery man liuing by the Scriptures importeth not only his life which by death is dissolued and brought to Sheol but also his senses desires and euen corporall affections and passions Of this can no man doubt that haâ—…h read any part of the Scriptures The soule is there sayd to hunger and thirst to lust to loath meats to eat and drinke to weepe to melt to suffer all violence to be strooken or pierced with the sword These things are attributed to the soules of men liuing by which not the substance of the soule but the affections and passions of the bodie that are common to vs with beasts are intended Much more then when the soule is sayd to haue bloud to die or not to be deliuered from the power of soâ—…ol are these things applied to the life of men which are most false of their soules once seuered from their bodies So that no man is able to deliuer his soule from the hand of Sheol but he must see death as the words next before do import but that Sheol after death shall possesse the soules of all men there is no such thing in the Prophets words by you produced The hand or power of Sheol which endeth this life sundreth the soule from the bodie that power of Sheol shall no man escape because it is appointed for all to die or as it is in your allegation to see death but what becommeth of their soules after death whether they be in Sheol or in Paradise this place expresseth not And therefore your interlacing those wordes after death of your owne authority besides the text sheweth that you affirme so much but the Psalmist sayth no such thing And because the Reader shall plainly see how lamely and loosely you conclude and cleane contrarie to the direct words of the holy Ghost euen in the Psalmes he shall heare the words of Dauid himselfe whether his soule after death should be subiected to the power of Sheol or no. Speaking of the foolish he sayth Like sheepe they lie in Sheôl death deuoureth them but God will deliuer my soule from the hand or power of sheol for he will receiue me Where first is a manifest contradiction to your maine collection out of the former place that the soules of all men good bad after death are appointed to Shâ—…l Secondly here is a full confirmatition of mine assertion that whose soules God receaueth they are not in Sheól But God receaueth the soules of his Saints their soules therefore are not in Sheól Neither is this confession to bee found in the Psalmes alone Salomon auoucheth the same Thou shalt smite thy child with the rod and shald deliuer his soule from Sheol Then are not the soules of all men in Sheol after death since the soule of a childe well nurtered and in time chastened shal be deliuered from Sheol And so shall the soules of all men that after death liue with God The way of life is on high for him that vnderstandeth to dâ—…line from Sheol belowe Life is on high Sheol is below the Saints then whose soules liue with God are freed from Sheol which is below To be in both places at once is impossible for one and the same part of man Then such as you graunt are in any part of heauen can by no meanes remaine in Sheol But the soules of the righteous are in a blessed rest with God and as Christ promised the thiefe that was crucified with him at least in Paradise They be therefore not in Sheol And as for the mirth that you make with me and Saint Augustine that O then this point of faith
it It is a plaine true rule in mine opinion that the Euangelists and Apostles euery where by Hades intended hell and none of your wandring or stragling fansies Besides the Greeke Fathers with one consent vse Hades after the direction of the Canonicall writers for a place of darknesse vnder the earth prouided to receaue and detaine the Soules of men And in this sense neither the Scriptures nor the Fathers departed much from the auncient and true vse of the word amongst heathen and prophane Authors sauing that the Pagans made it common to the Soules of iust and vniust which the Scriptures neuer doe and the Fathers vtterly refuse after Christs Resurrection whatsoeuer they doe before Since then Hades by the manifest exposition of Saint Luke in his Gospell is the place of torment where the wicked after death are punished and the same Euangelist expresseth Dauids meaning to be this that Christs Soule after death was not left or forsaken in Hades what cause or reason hath any man to denie that Christ dying descended to hell there to spoyle powers and principalities and thence to leade Captiuitie Captiue that as he ascended to the highest heauens there to sit superiour to all the Elect Angels so he first descended to the bottomlesse deepe there to subiect the Reprobate Angels vnto his humane nature and to dissolue the power and sorrowes of hell of which it was impossible he should be held Here we must consider a maine obiection of yours euen those words of our common Creed he descended into hell originally it is he descended into Hades and in truth this is all you haue to alleadge for your opinion but I answere two waies first admitting then denying the Authoritie of these words in our common Creede You haue seene by this time what I haue to alleadge for that which I defend may besafely conceiued of the Creed The words themselues he descended to Hades haue euident warrant in the holy Scriptures and Peter exactly concludeth out of Dauids words that Christs Soule was not left in Hades What Hades is with S. Luke the writer of the Acts we likewise haue seene It is euen the place where the wicked are tormented after death Put these together and tell me what they want of Christes descending into hell before he rose from the dead The words in English he descended into hell are confirmed by the publike authoritie of this Realme as well in the Booke of common praier as in the Articles of Religion agreed on by the Conuocation and ratified by Act of Parliament So that all your euasions elusions of the priuation condition and dominion of death to be ment thereby are vtterly reiected and condemned by generall and full consent of Prince Pastours people within this Realme and Christs descent to hell after death hath beene constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of England euer since the Gospell was here established What you haue said against it I leaue to the Readers wise and indifferent iudgement who wil easily tell you you must bring better sluffe then either phrases or fansies before the common Creede may be thus reiected and despised You enioyne vs three Rules to be exactly and precisely kept in the expounding of these words Namely 1. distinction of Matter 2. consequence of order 3. proprietie of words Might not those godly men thinke you misse in some such circumstances although the Scripture cannot The first compilers of the Creede meaning shortly orderly and plainly to deliuer the summe of the Christian faith as touching the three persons in Trinitie and the chiefest blessings which God bestoweth on his Church in this life and the next by Iesus Christ our Lord might not with any discretion in so briefe and compendious assume of Christian Religon proposed to the simple and vulgar sort of all ages and sexes vse either any needlesse repetition disordered confusion or obscure inuolution of things requisite to our Saluation To these Rules agree all that haue expounded the Creede in the Church of Christ to this very day saue your selfe and such as haue opened you the gap to these innouations And these Rules allowed do cleane cast your exposition out of doores For where it is most plainly said that Christ died and was buried which words no plow-man woman nor child of reasonable yeeres can mistake you after Christs buriall come in with a darke and figuratiue phrase of descending to Hades which in effect you confesse is no more but what was said before in knowen and open speech that Christ died And this obscure and strange circumlocution of death you will haue to be an Article of your faith as if euery Christian creature were bound vpon danger of his saluation to vnderstand what Sheol or Hades doth signifie in the Greeke and Hebrew Tongues which is a position meete for such a Diuine as you are Your exposition therefore is repugnant to all three Rules For it is a superfluous vnorderly enigmaticall iteration of that which was before expressed in due place with as plaine and easie wordes as any might be spoken by the tongue of man Now with what Arguments you or any man liuing Hu. Bro. not excepted can prooue that Hebrew or Greeke phrases are Articles of Religion and must be conceaued and beleeued of all men before they can be saued as yet I doe not vnderstand And this is the miserie of your cause that not onely you haue no word in Latine English nor in any tongue else answerable to your Sheol or Hades but when you come to lay open your owne phrases the exposition is more ridiculous then the Translation For by Christs descending to Hades which you call the power dominion and kingdome of death you meane no more but that Christs Soule seuered from his Body went to heauen to the rest of the blessed Soules there And here I report me to him that will vouchsafe to read your 196. 197. pages whether you haue any thing there but store of phrases extending intending enlarging amplifying the name power and dominion of death which when all is done and said amounteth to this much that Christes soule seuered by death from his body submitted it selfe to the base and low condition of the dead by taking the paines to goe to heauen to the rest of the Saints there This is all in effect that your Periphrasis and Emphasis moriendi doe containe and the great fall or whole casting downe of Christes person which you so Rhetorically set out with termes of the broadest and longest size hath nothing in it but only this that his soule after death which dissolued his person ascended to the societie of the blessed soules in heauen The rest is your emphaticall and paraphrasticall vanitie swelling with wordes and shrinking in sense which needeth none other refutation but sober obseruation that when two sides are spent nothing is said but you are where you began For would you not varie so many phrases
THE SVRVEY OF CHRISTS SVFFERINGS FOR MANS redemption AND OF HIS DESCENT TO HADES OR HEL for our deliuerance By THOMAS BILSON Bishop of Winchester The Contents whereof may be seene in certaine Resolutions before the Booke in the Titles ouer the Pages and in a Table made to that end ROM 6. v. 10. In that Christ died he died to sinne ONCE ROM 10. v. 6. 7. Say not in thine heart Who shall descend to the bottomlesse deepe That is to bring Christ backe from the dead AVGVST Epist. 99. Quod fuerit anima mortificatus Iesus quis audeat dicere That Iesus was dead in soule who dare auouch Quis nisi Infidelis negauerit fuisse apud Inferos Christum Who but an Infidell will denie Christ was in Hell Perused and allowed by publike Authoritie LONDON Printed by Melchisedech Bradwood for Iohn Bill M. DC IIII. TO THE HIGH AND MIGHTY VVISE AND RELIGIOVS PRINCE IAMES by the grace of God King of Great Brittaine France and Ireland Defender of the true and Christian Faith c. MOst religious and renowned Prince if the Heathen reaching no farther than the light of Nature could leade them sawe those Common-weales would soone flourish whose Gouernors were giuen to the study of Philosophy how much rather must Christians ascribe that to heauenlie Wisdome which they did to earthly and confesse those Realms to be blessed indeed where the chiefe Rulers are carefull to seeke first the Kingdome of God to prefer the loue of true pietie before all respect of humane policie For since Gods purpose and promise is to honour them that honour him and no good thing can be wanting to those that rightly worship him according to his will how liberall benedictions mercifull protections may those Princes hope for at Gods hands who set their hearts wholly to seeke him and make all their wayes straight in his sight This fauour from heauen to be guided by good and godly Princes the Realme of England hath tasted a long time to their no small comfort whiles for these 45 yeeres by the Christian care of a most milde and gratious Queene now with God they haue beene directed to the trueth of the Gospell of Christ and defended in peace from the violence of all impeachers and impugners of either And after her decease though our vnthankfulnesse had prouoked the wrath of God and our vnfruitfulnesse well deserued the Kingdome of God should be taken from vs yet he that is rich in mercie towards all that call on him respecting more the glory of his name lest his enemies should blaspheme than any worthinesse of ours not onely continued but increased his accustomed goodnesse to vs and gaue your Maiestie being the lineall and rightfull heire to the Crowne of this Realme a present and peaceable entrance with the greatest applause of all states sorts and sides that hath beene seene these many ages and specially of the godlie who saw the happinesse of the former gouernment would be doubled by the manifolde gifts and graces of your Christian and Princely integrity clemency bounty wisdome and piety And surely their hope hath not deceiued them for who so hath rightly discerned and duely considered your beâ—…ignesse of nature your ripenesse of iudgement your deepnesse of wisdome your vprightnesse of iustice your readinesse to mercie your bounteousnesse to the best your euennesse to all your desire of peace your care of your people your fauour to your Cleargie and respect to your Church your promptnesse in professing and stedfastnesse in establishing the true seruice of God amongst vs which your Highnesse hath constantly shewed since you came to the Crowne can not but acknowledge that to be iustly applied to your Maiestie which was first sayd of Salomon Blessed be the Lord your God which loued you to set you on the Throne of all Britaine because the Lord loued this land made you King to doe equitie and iustice happie are those your seruants which stand euer before you and heare your wisdome Whereof because it pleased God and your Maiestie I should attend you aswell at your Table in your first Progresse into these Countries of Surrey and Hampshire as at your conference for matters of Religion and assemblie of States for the welfare of this Realme I can beare certaine and assured witnesse as likewise can the rest of your Nobles and Bishops then present who all with no lesse admiration than contentation heard with what sharpnesse of vnderstanding maturenesse of knowledge soundnesse of reason firmnesse of memorie and aptnesse of speech your Highnesse entred debated and resolued the greatest and hardest points of diuine and humane wisdome shewing in euery of them such dexteritie perspicuitie and sufficiencie as I professe before God without flattery I haue not obserued the like in any man liuing As therefore I iudge the whole Realme blessed and beloued of God for giuing them a Prince of such rare prudence intelligence and experience so doe I after the example of the Apostle thinke my selfe happy that I shall this day bring these matters in question before so learned religious and iudicious a King no lesse skilfull in the sacred Scriptures than carefull to continue the true Christian faith thorowout his Dominions without dissenting from the will of God reuealed in his Word or departing from the primitiue Church of Christ in her best and purest times May it then please your excellent Maiestie to be enformed that vpon some mens too much forwardnesse to innouate as well the doctrine as the discipline of the Church of England they thinking those deuices alwayes best which are newest it was rife in Pulpits and vsuall in Catechismes that the death of Christ Iesus on the Crosse and his bloudshed for the remission of our sinnes were the least cause and meane of our redemption but he did and must suffer the death of the soule and the very same paines which the damned doe in hell before we could be ransomed from the wrath of God and this was that descent of Christ to hell which we are taught by the Creed to beleeue This opinion began to preuaile so fast that children were trained to it and the people led to controle the Scriptures as not rightly deliuering the true cause of our redemption by Christ in that they mention no meane to ransome vs from death and hell but the bloud of his crosse and death admitted in the bodie of his flesh and therefore in all such places we must as they say by a kinde of Synecdoche conceiue the death of the damned to haue beene suffered for a season in the soule of Christ and that to be the full and perfect price of our redemption I was much grieued I confesse to your sacred Maiestie to finde this so often in Catechismes and frequent in Pulpits and without iust ground in the Word of God to be so confidently blazed whiles the doctrine of this Realme proposed by publike authoritie to the people in the Booke of Homilies
was neglected and loathed And vpon conference with the most reuerend Father the late Archbishop now with God was aduised in open audience to deliuer what the Scriptures teach touching our redemption by the death and bloudshedding of Iesus Christ the Sonne of God Which accordingly I did declaring by occasion of the Apostles words Be it far from me to reioyce but in the Crosse of Christ first the Contents and then the Effects of Christes crosse In the Contents of Christes crosse I shewed what Christ suffered by the witnes of holy Scripture and what he suffered not and there ioyned this issue That no Scripture doth teach the death of Christs soule or the paines of the damned to be requisite in the person of Christ before he could be the Ransomer of our sinnes and Sauiour of the world And because the proofs pretended for this point might be three Praedictions that Christ should suffer those paines Causes why he must suffer them and Signes that he did suffer them I likewise insisted on all three and shewed there were no such Praedictions Causes nor Signes of the true paines of hell to be suffered in the soule of Christ before he could saue vs. Wherein his Agonie in the Garden and Complaint on the Crosse were examined as well by the rules of holy Scripture as by the maine consent of all the Fathers And lest the death of Christ suffered in the bodie of his flesh on the altar of the Crosse as it is described in the Scriptures and the shedding of his precious bloud should be disabled or distrusted of any as no sufficient meanes or price of our redemption in the Effects of Christs crosse I prooued the merits of Christes suffering to be infinite in respect of his person who was God and of the perfection of his obedience vnto the death of the Crosse the maner of his offering to be bloudie foreshewed by the Sacrifices of the Law and sealed by the Sacraments of the Gospell the power of his death to be mightie as able to conquer Sinne Hell and Satan the comfort of his Crosse to be necessarie to which we must all be conformed to suffer with him before we can raigne with him the victorie thereof to be heauenly in that he rose the third day into a celestiall and eternall life hauing all his enemies vnder his feet Yet for peace sake I yeelded the name of hell-paines might in some sort be tolerated in the sufferings of Christ if we meant thereby great and intolerable paines as the word is sometimes metaphorically taken in the Scriptures at the least by our vulgar translation for the word indeed was Sheôl which is vsed aswell for the graue as for hell and so those speeches of Dauid That the paines of Sheol found him out or compassed him might import the paines of death which brought men to their graues And concerning that Article of our Faith Christ descended to Hell I taught it might not by the course of the Creed be referred to Christ liuing but to Christ dead and safely note the conquest which Christs manhood after death had ouer all the powers of darkenesse declared by his resurrection when he rose Lord ouer all his enemies in his owne person Death Hell and Satan not excepted and had the Keyes that is all power of death and hell deliuered him by God that those in heauen earth and hell should stoope vnto him and be subiect to the strength and glorie of his Kingdome These things were first vttered by speech and after committed to writing that aswell the parts as proofes of euery point might more plainly appeare to all that would examine them My care was in either of these to ioyne with the doctrine prescribed by the booke of Homilies to be taught in the Church of God to the people That there is none other thing that can be named vnder heauen to saue our soules but this only worke of Christes precious offering his bodie vpon the Altar of the Crosse. For so great was Gods wrath and displeasure towards sinne that he could be pacified by no other meanes but only by the sweet and precious bloud of his deere Sonne And so pleasant was this sacrifice and oblation of his Sonnes death which he so obediently and innocently suffered that God would take it for the onely and full amends for all the sinnes of the world As for Christs descent to hell I deliuered the same ends and intents which the booke of Homilies doth where it saith Christes death destroyed death and ouercame the Diuell His death destroyed hell with all the damnation thereof Christ passed thorow death and hell to the intent to put vs in good hope that by his strength we shall do the same He destroyed the Diuell and all his tyrannie and openly triumphed ouer him and tooke away from him all his Captiues meaning all the Elect and hath raised and set them with himselfe amongst the heauenly Citizens aboue These things thus preached and printed by me it may please your excellent Maiestie to vnderstand were first impugned by an hastie and humorous Treatise whiles my Sermons were yet vnder the Presse and after by a larger and warier Defence which is this that I now refute The Treatiser sliding from the things proposed by me wherein he could not open his mouth but with as many vntrueths as words did beare men in hand the question was Whether Christ suffered for vs the wrath of God or no whereas I mooued no such doubt but rather acknowledged That all which Christ suffered in soule or in bodie was the wrath of God against our sinnes if we speake as the Scriptures doe of punishments prouided â—…or this life where Christ did suffer and not of the wrath to come which is the vengeance prepared for the Diuell and the damned in another world And because in this Treatise I found moe distempered pangs of erroneous follie than aduised steppes of learning or religion I refelled the chiefe reasons thereof in a Conclusion added to my Sermons as they were in printing not thinking it worth my time or paines to make any longer resutation of him that remembred so little of that I had vttered and reasoned so loosely for that which he would establish No sooner were those Sermons and that Conclusion published but the curious Brethren seeing their kingdome of conceits impugned made their obseruations on both and sent their collections and reasons to the Treatiser that he might make a fresh Defence correcting in many things his former rashnesse and now leading him rather cunningly to cauill with the Fathers speeches than so proudly to disdaine their testimonies which maketh him not only to change his minde in many matters from that he sayd before but often to crosse himselâ—…e in the selfe same leafe whiles he doth not marke what he sayth out of his owne heart and what he bringeth out of other mens supplies and papers In this Defence for so they
religious Prince aswell to examine the Scriptures with all diligence as to shew the confession and resolution of Christs Church long before our times that all the world may see I maintaine none other grounds of Faith nor sense of Scripture than haue beene anciently constantly and continually professed and beleeued in the Church of Christ for these fifteene hundred yeeres till this our present Age and the same allowed and ratified by the publike lawes of this Realme which your Maiestie in your most Princely wisdome and courage professe to vpholde and continue God for his holy Names sake blesse your most sacred Maiestie and prosper all your vertuous and Christian cares that as in learning and wisdome in clemencie and pietie he hath made you the Mirrour of this Age so in peace and prosperitie in concord and vnitie in all happinesse and felicitie he may exalt you aboue all your neighbour Princes and hauing vnited the two Realmes of England and Scotland in one subiection vnder your Princely right and regiment he will knit the hearts and hands of both to honour and serue you loue and obey you and your royall issue after you to the worlds end Your Maiesties most humble subiect and seruant THO. WINTON THE CHIEFE RESOLVTIONS OF THIS Suruey THe cleerenes and fulnes of the Scriptures in the worke of our Redemption is exactly to be reuerenced so as no man ought to teach or beleeue any thing touching our redemption by Christ which is not expresly witnessed in the sacred Scriptures much lesse may we distrust the manifest words of the holy Ghost to be impertinent or vnsufficient in declaring the true price and meane of our redemption The maine ground of the Gospell which the Apostles preached the faithfull receiued wherein they continued and whereby they were saued was this That Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures and was buried and rose the third day according to the Scriptures Since then we are reconciled to God by the death of his Sonne we must acknowledge none other death of Christ then that which he suffered in the bodie of his flesh after which he was buried and from which he rose the third day which death the Scriptures most apparently describe to be the death of Christs bodie If we were redeemed by the bloud of Christ and God proposed him to be a Reconciliation through faith in his bloud which was shed for the remission of sinnes we may not presume to appoint a new price of our redemption or new meane of our reconciliation since by the bloud of his crosse Christ hath pacified both the things in earth and things in heauen and the bloud of Iesus Christ cleanseth vs from all sinne The Scriptures doe no where teach nor mention the death of Christs Joule or the death of the damned which is the second death to be needfull for our redemption We must not therefore intrude our selues into Gods seat to ordâ—…ne a new course for mans redemption If the Spirit doe quicken and the iust liue by faith and he that abideth in loue abideth in God who is life it was vtterlie impossible but the soule of Christ in that abundance of Spirit euidence of Faith assurance of Hope and perfection of Loue which he alwayes retained should alwayes liue to God Life and death being opposed as priuatiues and so not to be found in one and the same subiect at one and the same time the soule of Christ alwayes liuing could neuer be dead Neither could a dead soule be pleasing to God who is whole life and therefore hateth death as contrarie to his nature when yet he was alwayes well pleased with Christ. Where some imagine extreame paine in Christs soule may be called the death of his soule that position is repugnant to the Scriptures for the greater the paine which the soule feeleth and endureth with innocencie confidence obedience and patience such as were all Christes sufferings the more the soule liueth and cleaueth to God for whose glorie it suffereth so much smart as appeareth in Martyrs whose soules do most liue in their greatest torments The late deuice of hell-paines in Christes passion is not only false but also superfluous for the true paines of hell neither are nor can be suffered in this life where by Gods ordinance extreame paine driueth the soule from the bodie much lesse can man or Angell endure them with obedience and patience as Christ did all his paines And what need was there of hell-paines in the crosse of Christ since God can by euery meanes or without meanes raise more paines in bodie or soule than any creature can endure Christs soule could not be strooken with any horrour of Gods displeasure against him since in his greatest anguish he professed God to be his God and his Father and by prayer preuailed for his persecutors as appeared after by their conuersion and gaue eternall life to the soule of the Thiefe hanging by him and beleeuing on him Now to giue life is more than to haue life and restore others to fauour he can not that himselfe is in displeasure Hell-fire which the damned and diuels do and shall suffer is a true and eternall fire prepared by the mightie hand of God to punish aswell spirits as bodies and this errour That the fire of hell was only an internall or spirituall fire in the soules and consciences of men was long since condemned in Origen by the Church of Christ. Reiection therefore desperation confusion horrour of damnation externall and eternall fire which are the torments of the damned and true paines of hell can not without blasphemie be ascribed to Christ. Christ therefore suffered neither the death of the soule nor the paines nor horrors os the damned or of hell Euery sinne is common to the whole man who is defiled euen with thoughts that be euill not only because the bodie is the Seat wherein and the instrument whereby the soule worketh but also for that the first infection of sinne commeth to the soule by the bodie and the first information and prouocation to sinne riseth from the senses and affections which are mooued with corporall spirits and all the parts and powers of the bodie attend the will with most readie subiection to haue each sinne which the soule conceiueth impressed on them and executed by them And therefore the suffering for sinne in the person of the Mediatour must be common both to bodie and soule in such sort that as in transgressing our soules are the principall Agents so in the suffering for sinne his soule was the principall Patient Christ would vse no power to assuage the force and violence of his paines though he wanted none as appeareth by his ouerthrowing them with a word that came to apprehend him but submitted himselfe to his Fathers will with greater obedience and patience than any man liuing could We may therefore safely beleeue That the iustice of God condemning sinne in Christes flesh proportioned the paines of his bodie in
ouer to Christ by God and all things subiected vnder his feet because he hâ—…bled himselfe and was obedient to his father vnto death euen the death of the Crosse. Was it then wrath in God without loue that brought Christ to his death or rather vnspeakable loue in God towards his sonne which ouerruled his iustice prouoked by our sinnes and so highly accepted and plentifully rewarded the death of Christ that he made him LORD ouer all things and persons in heauen earth and hell to giue grace and peace mercie and glory to Gods elect by his meanes and merites and to inflict excecation destruction and damnation on the wicked both men and diuels by his iudgement and sentence If it were admirable loue and fauour in God towards Christs humane nature to ioyne mans flesh and spirit into the vnitie and societie of his Sonnes Diuine maiestie what inestimable honor and glory was it to put the whole gouernment of Gods kingdome in heauen and earth into Christs hands which is the reward that God hath allotted to Christs obedience patience shewed on the Altar of the Crosse So that the learned may soone perceiue I worke no deceit nor mistaking to the Reader through the ambiguitie of this word THE VVRATH OF GOD as you pretend but you wandring in the desart of your owne deuises haue fashioned to your selfe a fardle of phrases as Gods proper and improper wrath 〈◊〉 meere iustice and such like and vnder the generalitie and vncertaintie of these words you hide your head and when you are required to make some proofe and shew some parts of Gods wrath out of the Scripture which Christ suffered besides the death of the Crosse and paines thereof you answere to particularize or to specifie the parts of Gods wrath which Christ felt as I will you to doe what madnesse were it in men to attempt and what folly is it in any to require Indeede it would be madnesse in you to attempt it for thereby you should plainly disclose that absurditie and impietie which now is cloaked vnder generall and doubtfull termes but those that be godly will neuer suffer their faith to be framed by your phrases except you shew warrant of Gods word both whence you collect them and what you meane by them neither of which you doe nor can doe with any truth in these points now in question For first by what Scripture proue you that Christ did or must suffer the proper wrath of God or the punishment and vengeance of sinne I following the sense and words of the Scriptures and of Diuines both olde new which make shame sorrow paine and death in this life the effects of Gods wrath punishing sinne in Adam and his of-spring at his fall did by consequent a specie ad genus affirmatiue gather and in that respect confesse that Christ suffering those things on the Crosse suffered the wrath of God and due punishment of sinne in this life but you tell vs now the Scriptures in that point speake most improperly you haue found out that Gods wrath signifieth properly the paines of the damned and those Christ suffered for our sinnes True it is and long since by me auouched that Gods wrath against sinne extendeth to all the paines and punishments of Soule and body as well in hell as on earth and in comparison of the terrible torments of hell fier the paines and punishments of the faithfull in this life may be called and accounted rather the chastisements of a Father then the rigour of a Iudge but since you refuse that sense of Gods wrath which I collected from the Scriptures as very improper take no aduantage of my confession and let Gods wrath stand in your sense either for Gods displeasure against the person offending or for the vengeance of sinne executed on the wicked and damned I aske you now by what authoritie of holy Scripture can you prooue that Christ suffered Gods proper wrath or his wrath at all I recall not my former Resolution which I take to be sober and sound but you reiecting it as improper and deceitfull let vs see how you prooue by the Scriptures that Christ suffered Gods wrath which you so much presume and make the chiefe pillour of all your procedings In your late defence with shame enough you yeeld at last that this word HELL is not literally and expresly applyed to Christs sufferings in the Scriptures you must likewise yeeld by your leaue that this speech the wrath of God is not literally nor expresly affirmed of Christs sufferings in all the Scriptures That he was wounded for our transgressions and torne or trodden vnder feete for our iniquities and we healed by his stripes as also that he was afflicted and oppressed and bare our iniquities and poured out his soule vnto death the Prophet Esay witnesseth that he dranke of the Cup which his Father gaue him the Euangelists mention and the Apostle saith he was deliuered and died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures but none of these expresse or inferre that he suffered the proper wrath of God or full punishment and vengeance of sinne which are the phrases placed for the ground-worke of all your discourse though no way prooued by any shew of Scripture The words vsed generally by the holy Ghost to expresse Christs sufferings besides the former import that he gaue himselfe for vs to be the sacrifice the price and the ransome of our deliuerance All which wordes note no wrath conceiued against him nor vengeance executed on him but rather the exceeding loue and fauour of God towards him as the onely Sacrifice that God would accept the onely price that God did esteeme the onely ransome that God would receaue for the sinne of the world This Sacrifice was his body this price was his bloud this ransome was his death We are sanctified by the offering of the body of Iesus once ‖ made ‖ priceâ—…th â—…th Paule that is yee were redcemed with the precious blood of Christ saith Peter For we haue redemption in him by his blood And he is the mediatour of the new testament through death for the ransome of the transgressions in the former testament So that by the sacrifice of his bodie price of his blood and ransome of his death he hath made a most full recompence satisfaction and redemption for the sinnes of the world and consequently the punishment which he sustained when he bare our sinnes in his body on the tree was the full perfect purgation and propitiation of our sinnes full not in the degrees and parts of condemnation and vengeance due to sinne which the damned doe suffer as you falsely and absurdly insinuate but full in price and force of Redemption and deliuerance from sinne for somuch as Gods holinesse is highly pleased with the obedience Gods glory greatly aduanced by the humilitie and Gods iustice fully satisfied with the
firy worme not dying nor destroying the bodie but breaking forth of the bodie with vnceasing anguish Howbeit because S. Austen leaueth it indifferent for euery man to refer the WORME properly to the bodie or figuratiuely to the minde as he liketh best so that by no meanes he thinke the bodies in hell shall not be touched with the paine of fire I left it likewise free for euery man to make his choise and saw no need of farther answer Touching brimstone you may iest at S. Iohn if you list who saith of the wicked they shall be tormented in fire and brimstone before the holy Angels and before the Lambe and likewise of the diuell that he was cast into a lake of fire and brimstone or if you please you may oppose God himselfe and aske whether materiall brimstone were mixed with the fire which hee rained from heauen on Sodom and Gomorre and why hee powred them both on the heads of those wicked ones as if fire alone were not sufficient to destroy them who are set forth for an ensample by suffering the vengeance of eternall fire But howsoeuer you presume to alter or new frame the iudgements of God after your fansies when I reade that God hath rained brimstone and fire out of heauen on Sodom and the cities adioyning and will raine fire and brimstone vpon the wicked as Dauid testifieth I dare not allegorize either of them because I reuerence the word of God which is his will and by no meanes distrust his power For if God will haue brimstone mixed with hell fire to make it burne not onely the darker and sharper but also the lothsommer and so to grieue the sight smell and taste of the wicked which haue heere surfeited with so many vaine pleasures what haue you or any man liuing to say against it yea rather why teach you not men to tremble at the terror of Gods iudgements who can and will so fully punish all the powers and parts of bodie and soule with one and the same fire in hell Your obiection of true chaines and much wood I called sleeuelesse in deed I should haue called it witlesse for but you no man that would seeme wise euer did account it worth the obiecting or answering Who knoweth not that the names of artificiall things applied to Gods iudgement or gouernement must not import with him as they doe with vs things made or prouided with mens handes but the woonderfull works and powerfull acts of God tending to the same end for which these artificiall things do serue with vs As when we read in the Scriptures of Gods sword cup bow booke sootestoole furnace and such like Is any man so foolish as to aske after the Cutler Goldsmith Flâ—…tcher Stationer Carpenter Mason that made those things for God and not rather to looke to the vse of these things amongst men and thence to collect the marueilous and manifest effects of Gods power iustice counsell and prouidence determining and perfourming in this world and the next what pleaseth him against men and Angels The chaines wherewith the deuils are bound Peter calleth the chaines of darkenesse not of mettall which man can frame and they note the ineuitable subiection and immutable condition of deuils plunged in outwarde and inward darkenesse malediction and horror whereby they are now kept vnto damnation without any power to resist or decline the iudgement which shall be pronounced on them That God hath a Smith to make Iron chaines to bind the deuill or a fueller to cut and fetch wood for hell fire lest it should faile these were such meriments to be concluded out of Scripture that if you find no vanitie nor absurditie in them against the trueth and glorie of God you may take the Legend or the Alcoran into your Creede without any scruple of conscience but if these things be more then sottish then deserue your obiections a worse name then I gaue them The Scriptures you say shew no more any true fire in hell then true chaines and much wood To suppose those things to be needefull for hell which are prepared by the hands of men is a very wicked and wilfull impietie For so should hell fire quickly cease which Christ hath said shall be euerlasting And that the Scriptures prooue no more the trueth of fire there then they doe of wood is an open and arrogant vntruth For first all the Fathers of Christs Church and the soberest Diuines of our time are condemned by this insolent assertion as ignorant and absurd teachers who confesse the trueth of hell fire to be established by the Scriptures which of wood they do not Secondly the words of Christ and his Apostles are chalenged to be false For they in plaine speech affirme fire to be in hell which of wood they doe not Thirdly the reason whereupon the Defenders obiection is grounded ouerthroweth all religion in this life and all reward in the life to come For this is and must be the pillar whereto his obiection leaneth The Scripture nameth fire and so it nameth wood and therefore it sheweth the trueth of the one no more then it doth of the other but if the wood be figuratiue so must the fire be Applie this reason to the Church of Christ on earth or to the kingdome of heauen or to Christ himselfe and see whether it will not vtterly subuert them all and make all Gods promises and graces here and in heauen to be allegoricall and not literally true Of Christ God saith Behold I will lay in Sion a stone a tried stone a precious corner stone And of himselfe Christ saith I am the true Vine Were it not braue blasphemie to say the Scriptures shewe Christ to be no more a true God then a true Stone or a true Vine because they affirme of him all three To his Church God saith I will lay thy foundation with Saphires and will make thy windowes of Emeraudes and thy gates shining stones All thy children shall bee taught of God and much peace shall be to thy children in righteousnesse shalt thou be established Shall we say that wisedome peace and righteousnesse here promised to the Church are figuratiue because Emeraudes and Saphires mentioned in the very same place must be figuratiuely taken Christ saith to his disciples I appoint you a kingdome as my Father hath appointed to mee that you may eate and drinke at my table in my kingdome Are all the rewards of the faithfull in the kingdome of heauen allegoricall because this most apparantly is so Proude and false therefore is that surly resolution of yours Sir Discourser who auouch the Scriptures shewe no more true fire in hell then much wood because the Prophet in one place nameth them both and if your obiections be no better let the Christian reader iudge whether there be any cause you should so earnestly call for an answere But let vs view the place whence you
sense and case that I do Peruse the labours of that learned Father Bishop Iewel and see how often in his Replie to Harding and his Defence of the Apologie he calleth the testimonies of the ancient Fathers and Councels Authorities We rest sayth he vpon the Scriptures of God vpon the Authoritie of the ancient Doctours and Councels And againe to reckon vp the authorities of ANTIQVITIE it would be infinite The halfe communion by the authoritie of Gelasuis may well be called open sacriledge In the conclusion of the same booke I grant you haue alledged authorities sundrie and many such as I knew long before Verely I neuer denied but you were able to bring vs the names and shadowes of m◅ny Fathers You haue defended the open abomination of your stewes by the name and AVTHORITIE of S. Augustine You haue sought vp a companie of new petite Doctors Authors void of Authoritie full of vanities In the conclusion of his defence of the Apologie my Authorities of Doctors and Councels as you haue vsed them are few enough What meant you in fauour of open Stewes to shew vs the name and AVTHORITIE of S. Augustine Peter Martyr against Smithes bookes of the singlenesse of Priests sayeth In iudging of things obscure we must haue two waies or meanes to direct vs one i◅ward which is the Spirit the other outward which is the word of God Tum si ad haec patrum etiam authoritas accesserit valebit plurimum to these if the authoritie of Fathers be ioyned it is of great force So Chemnitius in his examination of the Tridentine Councell Quod de patrum authoritate sentimus etiam ab ipsis Patribus didicimus That which we hold touching the authoritie of the Fathers we learned of the Fathers themselues Where also he teacheth you this Rule worth the noting for your new found Redemption and the rest of your nouelties Sentimus etiam nullum dogma in ecclesia no◅m cum t◅ta antiquitate pugnans recipiendum We also confesse that no point of Doctrine which is new to the Church and repugnant to all antiquitie is to be receiued If the Fathers themselues will better please you I want not their example for the vse of that word which so much offendeth you Ierome in his Epistle to Damasus in very earnest manner maketh this petition Vt ◅ihi epistolis tuis siue tacendarum siue dicendarū hypostase◅n detur authoritas That AVTHORITIF may be giuen me saith he by your letters to vse or refuse the word hypostases Vincentius in his book against heresies mooueth this question Here some perchaunce will aske where as the Canon of the Scripture is perfect and abundantly sufficient in it selfe for all things quid opus est vt ei ecclesiasticae intelligentiae iungatur authoritas what neede is there that the authoritie of the ecclesiasticall interpretation should be ioyned with it The effect of his answere which is good for you to obserue that claime such libertie for your selfe to expound the Scriptures at your pleasure is this least euery man should wrest the Scriptures to his fansie and sucke thence not the truth but the patronage of his error Saint Augustine that is euery where carefull to yeeld the Scriptures their due reuerence yet giueth the word Authoritie to the decrees of Councels and writings of godly Fathers before his time Speaking of generall Councels he saith Quorum est in ecclesia saluberrima authoritas Whose authoritie is most wholsome in the Church And alleaging the testimonies of Irenaeus Cyprian Hilarius Ambrose Gregorie Chrysostome Basil and others against Iulian the Pelagian he concludeth Hoc probauimus Catholicorum authoritate sanctorum this haue we prooued by the authoritie of Godly Catholike men vt vestra fragilis quasi argutula nouitas sola authoritate conteratur illorum that your weake and sleigh noueltie might be ouerwhelmed with their onely authoritie For your contumacie is first to be repressed by their authoritie With these testimonies and so great authoritie of holy men thou must either by Gods mercy be healed or else thou must accuse the egregious and holy Doctors of the Catholike truth against which miserable madnes I must so answere that their faith may be defended against thee euen as the Gospell it selfe is defended against the wicked and professed enimies of Christ. If then this word seeme insolent to you which is so frequent with the best Diuines of former and latter times let your Reader iudge whether it be ignorance or insolence in you to stumble at so plaine a word as if the religious and auncient Fathers and lights of Christs Church were not worthy with you to be counted learned Authors nor their testimonies to be named Authorities fit to guide and lead others to the knowledge of the truth I trust no aduised Christian will challenge more authoritie to the Fathers then was giuen by those of Beraea to the Apostle nor deny indeede to any priuate man much lesse to a Minister to iudge and discerne in themselues not onely the words of men but euen of the sense and meaning of the Scripture by the Scripture it selfe which thing the Beraeans did and are commended by the holy Ghost for it I trust you claime no power to iudge of the Scriptures you may discerne the truth there written but with necessitie to beleeue not with libertie to iudge And if by your freedome you fasten on falsehood it is no excuse for you but a condemnation vnto you Saint Austen speaking of the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles saith quos omnino indicare non audeamus which we may not dare at all to iudge And where you say the Ber◅ans are commended by the holy Ghost for not beleeuing that Paul spake touching Religion till they had examined by the Scriptures and seene whether the truth were so as he vttered You speake not one◅y vnwisely and vntruely but if you would haue Christians to follow that course you shew intolerable pride against the word of God for the Beraeans were commended when as yet they neither beleeued in Christ nor acknowledged Pauls Apostleship for their readinesse to heare and care to search whether Paul spake trueth or no. This if you now assume to your selfe ouer Pauls words or writings you incurre the crime of flat impietie Pauls words to vs that beleeue without further search or other credit are of equall authoritie with the rest of the Scriptures and not to beleeue him till we examine and see the trueth of his doctrine is meere infidelitie Behold I paul say vnto you must suffice all Christians and if an Angel from heauen preach otherwise than he preached we must hold him accursed For our comfort that beleeue and to perswade them which as yet beleeue not we may search and see the consent betwixt the Prophets and Apostles yea the sonne of God sent men to the writings of Moses and the
Prophets not as wanting soueraigntie and sufficiencie in himselfe aboue all Prophets but leading them that knew him not to consider better of those Scriptures which they knew It is as true of Pauls writings as of the rest of the Apostles and Prophets which S. Augustine affirmeth De quorum scriptis quòd omni errore careant dubitare nefarium est Of whose writings to doubt whether they be free from all error is plaine wickednesse Neuerthelesse I well perceiue that all this great shew of cleauing to the Fathers iudgements is but coloured in you For in other points againe we see when they speake not to yoúr liking the case is altered I see in this booke where you forsake the ancient and learned Fathers that is as you speake in my case you conâ—…mne despise them The more vniust then and iniurious was your slander that I went about by the vse of one word which olde and new Diuines vsed in like sort before me to make the Fathers of equall authoritie with the Scriptures since now you can both obserue and obiect that euen in this booke which you impugne I say and do the contrarie And though I be farre from repenting or misliking any thing that I sayd touching the prerogatiue of the sacred Scriptures and their irrefragable authoritie against all the words and wits of men yet can I not chuse but note your negligence that marke neither what nor of whom I speake Had I brought Fathers in matters of faith against or without the Scriptures you had some colour to choake me with mine owne words but taking care as I did that in cases of faith the Scriptures should be plaine and perspicuous for my purpose before I cited them and the testimonies of the Fathers euident and concurrent with the Scriptures how doe I crosse any of those places which you quote out of my writings touching the authoritie and sufficiencie of the Scriptures in points of faith or what agreement hath your dissenting from the Scriptures and Fathers in the chiefest keyes of Christian religion with my leauing them in some expositions and positions not pertinent to the faith nor generally receiued of them all It is vanitie enough to dreame of contradictions where none are and as great infirmitie not to see that which lieth before your eyes but to pronounce that you know how wauering and slipperie I am for the most part therein when you neither consider nor conceiue what I say that is more than childish temeritie As I sayd so I say againe In Gods causes Gods booke must teach vs what to beleeue and what to professe and therefore what I reade in the word of God that I beleeue what I reade not that I doe not beleeue Yea I adde thereto S. Basils conclusion If all that is not of faith be sinne as the Apostle sayth and faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word of God all that is without the Scripture inspired from God as not being of faith is sinne This confession I constantly holde and as in the first booke which you quote I directly and expresly defend that no point of faith should be beleeued without Scripture so in my Sermons I no where varie from it how slipperie soeuer your tongue be to tell a tale in stead of a trueth I doe reiect Austens opinion in three speciall points and diuers Fathers in two other cases and some of those things I affirme against all the Fathers and almost against all the Church and yet I bitterly reproue you for vsing the like libertie Doe I any where reiect S. Augustine or all the Fathers in any point of doctrine necessarie to our saluation as you do in the chiefest grounds of our redemption And when I let the Reader vnderstand that the reasons which some Fathers bring to fortifie their priuate opinions are not sufficient for to force consent to be giuen vnto them doe I call them fond absurd without reason or likelihood and paradoxes in nature as you do These two things I iustly reproue in you which I my selfe doe not fall into for all your fitning In the maine principles of Christian religion and our redemption you make the best learned Fathers ignorant of their Creed and Catechisme and when their expositions of the Scripture crosse your imaginations you Reuell against their Iudgements as void of sense and reason This doâ—… I not In the rule of faith I renounce not their maine consent nor vndoubted maximes least I conclude them or my selfe to erre in faith In other questions of lesâ—…e importance wherein they differ sometimes from ech other sometimes euen from themselues I let the Reader see their reasons and leaue him free to follow what he liketh or to suspend his iudgement if he find cause therefore This libertie I neuer take from you nor mislike it in you but when you pronounce all to be absurd fond and foolish that yeeld not to your fansie wherein you doe not onely proudly aduance your owne dreames as necessary Doctrines but reprochfully preiudice the freedome of others This difference is not my deuise the auncient consent of Godly Fathers saith Vincentius is with great care to be searched and followed of vs not in all the questions of the Diuine Law but onely or chiefly in the Rule of Faith Whether therefore the bodies of such as arose and came out of their graues after Christs resurrection returned againe to corruption or still kept the honor of immortalitie which was bestowed on them as also when Christ said to the theefe on the Crosse this day shalt thou be with me in Paradise whether Christ ment the presence of his humane soule or of his Diuine glory should be that day in Paradise and so whether the soules of the faithfull dâ—…parting this life goe straight to heauen or stay in a place appointed them of God till the day of iudgement and likewise whether Abrahams bosome were a receptacle for soules within the earth and neere to hell or far aboue the earth and lastly whether the loosing of Adam from hell by Christs descent thither which the whole Church almost seemed to hold by tradition freed onely the person of Adam from the place of hell or both him and his posteritie from all feare and danger of hell These be things that may be liked disliked or suspended without any manifest breach of faith and wherein Saint Austen probablely disputeth but determineth nothing for certaintie to be beleeued alwaies tempering his words in these cases with Ego quidem non video explicent qui possunt nondum intelligo nulla causa occurrit nondum muâ—… I see not how let them declare it that can as yet I vnderstand it not I conceaue presently no cause as yet I find it not cleere If I then laboured with respectiue words and other places of the same Fathers to shew wherein they doubted or dissented who but a light head and slipper tongue would call this
ambiguous and quarrellous The whole propitiatorie sacrifice are words as doubtfull as the other for since Christ was the Priest who by his eternall spirit offered himselfe vnspotted to God and gaue himselfe for vs to be an offering and sacrifice of a sweet smel vnto God his innocence and obedience chiefly rested in his soule thence sanctified his bodie which suffered death for the ransome of our sinnes Though then all things in Christ were holie and acceptable vnto God and so sacrifices most meritorious yet nothing did fully satisfie the iustice of God for sinne nor make a perfect reconciliation for vs with God but his obedience vnto death For that which must satisfie for sinne must be death other ransome for sinne God neither in his wisdome and counsell would nor in his trueth and iustice could accept after his will once determined and declared It was the first wages appointed and denounced by God to sinne In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt die the death or certainly thou shalt die the doubling of the word noting the inflexibilitâ—…e of Gods counsell and iustice The Apostle witnesseth the same when he sayth The wages of sinne is death Then as sinne was irreuocabâ—…e rewarded with death so must it necessarily be redeemed by death Which rule stood so sure that when the Sonne of God would giue himselfe for vs to redeeme vs he could not do it by reason of Gods immutable counsell and decree but by death Wherefore the Apostle calleth him the Mediator of the New testament through death for the redemption of transgressions And where a testament is there MVST BE sayth he the death of the testator He contenteth not himselfe to say there was but there must be the death of the testator before we could be redeemed A necessitie not simplie binding Gods power but plainly declaring his counsell to be fixed and his will reuealed Since then Christ was to taste death for all men that through death he might destroy him which had power of death euen the diuell and deliuer vs who were reconciled to God by the death of his sonne the point which indeed wee both must stand on is what death Christ suffered to redeeme vs from sinne and to reconcile vs vnto God whether it were the death of the damned which is the second death or the death of the soule or as I auouch the death of the bodie only Other parts of Christes person and beames of his vertues and kinds of his sufferings are not to this quâ—…stion â—…arther than they commended and presented to God Christes death which must ransome our sinnes but the scope to which all the rest was referred and the â—…lose which consummated all the rest was death and therefore no sufferings of Christ were parts of the propitiatorie sacrifice which ransomed sinne but such as ended in death or tended to that sorrowfull shamefull and painfull death of Christ which by order of Gods iustice was appointed to satisfie for sinne The fulnesse of which satisfaction consisted in death and therefore the death and bloud of Christ though they were not the whole sacrifice yet were they the full and perfect ransome and price for sinne because without them the rest could not preuaile and to them all the rest was directed If then you will deale plainly as you pretend or not forget your duetie to God and his trueth you must leaue cauilling with the words of the Holy Ghost and go soberly to consider not whether any other sufferings but whether any other death of Christes be mentioned in the Scriptures to ransome our sinnes besides the death of his bodie If you finde any other there professe â—…t in Gods name if you finde none but only that described or mentioned in the Scriptures leaue snarling at the depth and bredth of those words which the Spirit of God hath authorized and learne rather to vnderstand them truely than vainly to oppose against them In sense and substance there is no difference betwixt these words the death bloud and crosse of Christ the crosse noting the tree whereon Christ died a reprochfull and cruell death for vs and his bloud expressing the maner of his death by sundrie sorts of shedding the same as by whipping piercing his head with thornes boaring his hands and feet to fasten him to the crosse and hanging him thereon three houres by the sorenesse of his wounds till his soule departed from his bodie To make these iarre one with the other which the holy Ghost had knit together is the signe of a busie but not of godly wit and howsoeuer you and your adherents can flourish with figures of Grammar you were best take heede that you turne not your eares from the trueth of God The bodily death which Christ died to ransome our sinnes the holy Ghost doth note sometimes by his Flesh sometimes by his Body sometimes by his Blood and sometimes by his Crosse and these either ioyned or seuered and sometimes also by his soule or life laide downe or powred out vnto death for vs. We finde them ioyned when Paul saith It pleased God by Christ to reconcile all things to himselfe and to pacifie by the BLOOD of his Crosse through him both things in earth and things in heauen And you which in times past were strangers and enemies hath he now reconciled in the BODY OF HIS FLESH through death Seuered are they when Peter saith You were redeemed by the precious blood of Christ as a Lambe vndefiled Who by his owne blood saith the Apostle entered in once into the holyplace and obtained eternall Redemption And so when Iohn saith The blood of Iesus Christ clenseth vs from all sinne As likewife Paul We haue Redemption through his blood euen the Remission of sinnes Of his body himselfe saith This is my body which is giuen for you and my flesh will I giue for the life of the world so are we sanctified by the offering of the body of Iesus Christ once Likewise of his soule by which the Scripture meaneth his life for that life wholy dependeth vpon the presence of the soule in the body My Father loueth me sayth Christ because I lay downe my soule or life The sonne of man came to giue his soule or life as a ransome for many And Esay foreshewed that Christ should diuide the spoyle of or with the mightie Because he powred out his soule vnto death which seuereth the soule from the body and so made it an offering for sinne by laying it downe of himselfe that death might seaze on his body This then being the maine foundation of the Gospel which the Apostle receiued that Christ died for our sinnes according to the Scriptures the Question still standeth as I first set it What death Christ died for our sinnes by the witnesse of holy Scriptures and not what sufferings went before or what other things ioyned with his death which is
being yet coherent Euen as Hippocrates sayd before him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when the lower iaw is broken if it be not cleane forced a sunder but that the bone is in some part coherent By which it is euident that as well ioynts as bones may be BROKEN and that either in part or in whole Klan then whence klômenon is deriued importeth not necessarily the breaking of bones in mans body as by your new Diuinitie you haue lately deuised to make way for your hell paines in the soule of Christ but it signifieth generally to breake as our English word doth and frango with the Latines likewise whether it be by bowing or straining that which is straight by losing that which is fast by bruizing that which is sound or by cutting and seuering in part or in whole that which is coherent And so much our English word BROKEN expresseth We say the necke or backe is broken when neither bone nor skinne is broken but the fastning of the ioynts is losed Likewise the head the face the shinnes are broken when the skin or flesh of these parts is by some violence razed or torne Yea the veynes are broken with a rupture and children are broken out when their flesh doth exulcerate And since the diuiding of that which was coherent which the Phisitians call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the solution of vnitie or continuitie whether it be strayning cutting razing tearing or bruizing the bones or flesh of mans body in part or in whole is contained in the English word breaking and in the Greeke word Klômenon the Apostle spake properly enough when he said that Christs body was broken for so much as all the ioynts of it were losed in sunder the vaines and sinewes tornc with piercing and grating of Iron spikes the flesh and the skinne cut and rent with thornes whips and speare and bruized with staues though the bones were not broken which is your ignorant exception against the Apostles words But MEDVCCA in the Prophet is broken in peeces properly or crushed and broken to powder as these Scriptures doe vse the word likewise and all Lexicons doe confirme Your resolutions are so rash that no man will trust your report for the proper signification of words DACHA indeede is properly to bruize whether it be with hand or foote but not to peeces nor to powder without some other word added to expresse so much For your Lexicons to which you so confidently appeale consult that of Pagnine perused and augmented by Mercere Ceuattere and Bertrame and Printed at Lyons in Fraunce Anno 1575. or Forsters Printed at Basile Anno 1564. and see whether they do not plainly reproue your folly Forstere expresseth the theme whence MEDVCCA commeth by oppressione seu depressione contusus est to be bruized by oppression or depression neither doth he so much as mention the signification of frangere to breake in all the examples of that theme Pagnine declareth the force of that theme by conterere frangere contundere to beate breake or bruize but Mercere addeth as Forstere did oppressione vel depressione by oppressing and depressing And against your beating to powder Pagnine taketh speciall exception out of the Rabbins in the very same place of Numbers whence you would inferre it For vpon the words Numbers 11. verse 8. the people gathered Manna and BEATE IT in morters and made cakes of it He saith differt a SHACHAK secundum Hebreorum Doctores quod SHACHAK est minutatim contundere terere The word here vsed differreth from SHACHAK according to the opinion of the Hebrew Doctors because SHACHAK signifieth to beat a thing small or to powder which cosequently this doth not And though they had dissembled so much yet the Scripture it selfe doth conuince that your obseruation out of that place as out of all the rest which you quote for that word is starke false For Manna by the description of Moses was a small round thing small as the hore frost on the earth and fell in the night with the dew and melted away when the heate of the sonne came Now Manna being so moist that it would melt with the heate of the Sunne was not beaten in morters to bring it to powder as you boldly suppose since it would rather cleaue together then come to powder but by bruizing it betweene two stones which was their kind of Mill in the Wildernes or in a morter with some water they did worke it to batter or dough thereof to make wafers or cakes But were it so that Manna would come to powder which yet the text doth not infeâ—…re will you conclude because beating in a morter bringeth dry things to powder that therefore beating doth generally and necessarily signifie beating to powder And as that place is mistaken by you which only seemed to make for you so not one of the rest which you quote in your maâ—…gin doth conuince either beating to powder or breaking in peeces properly to which you so violently wrest the words of â—…say For where the Prophet saith the Nettes of Egypt shall be torne that is farre from beating to powder except you haue lately deuised the powder of Nettes to make a plaister of And if we should say they were torne to pieces what necessitie is there that either this tearing should be properly breaking which you admit not but in things that be stiffe and hard as bones and such like or that those pieces should be diuided from the whole and not rather be ruptures in the whole as we see in torne nettes which are not alwaies rent cleane a sunder The next and last place which you quote for the proper vse of this word it as wide from your purpose as West from East None wounded sayth Moses with any contusion â—…r abscission of his secret parts shall enter into the congregation of the Lord. Can thosâ—… parts of man be properly broken in pieces or beaten to powder They may be bruized or wounded as other fleshy parts may be but breaking to pieces properly or beating to powder were very strange in that case That bruizing was vsed as well as cutting to make men Eunuches appeareth by Paulus Aegineta where he sayth Huâ—…us reâ—… modus duplex est vnus collisione alter excisione absoluitur The way to do this is double one by bruising the other by cutting And since Moses compriseth both these wayes in his words it is euident that DACCA is a bruize and consequently the word may be properly applied to Christes bodie which was sorely bruized as well with the beating of sâ—…aues and whips as with piercing and grating of iron spikes These are the grounds on which you gather the Prophet could not by that word meane the wounding and bruizing of Christes bodie but because powder and pieces as you dreame are properly comprised in that theme therefore it must be referred to the soule of Christ. As if pieces and powder came
neerer in soules to the right signification of bruizing than the mangling tearing and contusing of Christs body which he suffered from the violent rage of the Iewes Your other word of the very same nature keepe to your selfe When your proofs faile you in this you may not be suffered to roue at your pleasure and to reach after other words out of your own vnlearned skill to vouch they are of the very same nature Wherefore there is no cause why the coherence of Esaies wordes should be cut in sunder by your vnhandsome deuice of the peeces and powder of soules but as the first words in that sentence he was wounded for our transgressions and the last with his stripes we are healed are plainly referred to the punishments of Christes bodie so the middest he was bruized for our iniquities should haue the same relation and intention especially the Prophet foretelling the people what they should see in their Messias and how they should misiudge of him We sayth Esay did iudge him as plagued and smittâ—…n of God but he was wounded for our transgressions and bruized for our iniquities and with his stripes are we healed Neither is it any strange thing in the Scriptures to ioyne this very word which you talke so much of with wounding as with a word of the same nature and force For besides that Moses sayth None wounded with any bruizing or â—…utting of his secret parts shall enter into the Lords congregation Dauid saith to God Thou hast bruized Rahab as one that is wounded Where wounding bruizing are more properly lincked together as words of like force and effect than your breaking of soules into pieces or beating them to powder The verie same word is also vsed in the Scriptures to note the bruizing of mans bodie by sicknesse or of his estate by wrong and oppression Dauid in a grieuous sicknesse complaining that he felt nothing sound in his flesh nor any rest in his bones addeth I am weakned and bruized very much Bruize not the poore in the gate sayth Salomon that is oppresse not the poore in iudgement The children of the foolish shall be bruized that is oppressed in the gate and none shall deliuer them And when it is applied to the soule it may note that to be either wounded with sorrow oppressed with wrong or humbled with obedience but as for powder and pieces from which you would pull a iust proportion which nothing can answere but the paines of hell it is a sicke conceit of your owne braine it hath no deriuation either from the Prophets or Apostles words You did not meane that the soule might be properly broken in pieces but that thus it is neerer and better applied to the soule than to the bodie which was only pierced and boared thorow Then was your former opposition out of the Scripture very licentious and your conclusion as friuolous In that a bone of Christes was not broken you inferred that Esaies words He was broken for our sinnes could not be properly meant of Christes bodie flesh and bones as if there were no breaking of ioynts veines sinewes flesh or skinne but only of bones And yet as if the soule of Christ which is by nature altogether indiuisible might properly be broken in pieces you conclude the breaking of the bread can not properly belong to the bodie of Christ BVT TO THE SOVLE Had you denied the breaking of the bread properly to belong to either your words must haue beene It can belong properly neither to the bodie nor to the soule but you denie the one and auouch the other It can not belong properly to the body but to the soule Whether those words of yours doe not expresly import that the breaking of bread doth properly belong to the soule of Christ as to the trueth wherein they must be verified I leaue it to the iudgement of the discreet Reader Howbeit you denie not but broken applied to the soule of Christ is figuratiue And so you grant there was no cause you should take such exceptions as you did to the Apostles wordes This is my bodie which is broken for you For since it can not be verified of the soule but figuratiuely as you now confesse it may so be most iustly verified of Christes bodie without any sense of hell paines suffered in the soule of Christ. And if the consent of the English Latine and Greeke tongues may be trusted for the vse of a word breaking may properly be affirmed of Christes bodie which can not be of his soule for so much as his ioynts veines sinewes flesh and skinne were broken and torne in sunder though his bones were not And but that your fashion is to follow no man farder than your fansie leadeth you you might haue seene with what reuerence and conscience Master Beza that otherwise vpholdeth the sufferings of Christes soule referreth this word KLOMENON to the tearings and torments of Christes bodie being hereto led by the Apostles assertion By the word broken in Pauls wordes is designed the kindâ—… of Christes death because besides that the Lords bodie was torne bruized and euen broken with most bitter torments though his legges were not broken as the theeues were Christ breathing out his soule with a most violent death was as it were rent in two parts according to his humane Nature This word then hath a MARVELLOVS EXPRESSE SIGNIFICATION that the figure should fullie agree with the thing it selfe to wit that the breaking of the bread should represent to our minds the verie death of Christ. Peter Martyr hauing made your obiection that a bone of Christ was not broken resolueth But heereof I will not greatly contend for somuch as this breaking is by many Fathers referred to the body of Christ. With whom the wordes following doe make broken for you which indeed leadeth me to consent vnto them and to acknowledge a double breaking one in the bread another in the bodie of Christ. Bullinger sayth The bread is properlie sayd to be broken the bodie of man to be slaine howbeit in the Hebrue tongue to breake is to waste to kill and destroy And so the visible bread which in our sight is broken with our hands doth certeinly set before our eyes that bodie of Christ which was broken or done to death by vs or for vs. So Haymo q Christ himselfe brake the bread which he deliuered to his Disciples to shew that the breaking and suffering of his bodie came not but of his owne accord Which wordes he tooke out of Beda vpon the Gospels of Marke and Luke Before whom Prosper When the host is broken and the bloud is powred out into the mouthes of the faithfull what other thing is designed than the doing to death of the Lords bodie on the crosse and the shedding of the bloud out of his side And likewise Austen The table of thy spouse sayth he to the Church hath bread
his Resurrection as antecedent since he possessed not that immortall and heauenly life which now he hath but vpon his arising from the dead And so the Apostle placeth them Christ died and rose againe and reuiued into such power and glory that he was made Lord ouer dead and quicke And Cyrill who often times vseth this word he reuiued of Christ meaneth the third day after Christs death when the Scriptures affirme he rose from the graue So Cyrill and the Synode of Alexandria that ioyned with him in writing vnto Nestorius say of Christ. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he reuiued the third day hauing spoyled hell and so in his second confession of the true faith to the religious Queenes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Christ spoyling death reuiued the third day And in his Epistle to those of Egypt Christ is said in the Scriptures first to haue died as a man 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and after that to haue returned to life by that which he was by Nature If then he died not in the flesh according to the Scriptures he was not quickned by the Spirit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is he reuiued not againe So that Cyrill hath not any seeming words for the death of Christs Soule but saith as Christ said in effect before that the Sonne of man gaue his soule or life to be a ransome for the life of all and not for the Soule of all which in the singular number is neither good English nor good Diuinitie though to smooth it you put the plurall and say for our soules which is not in Cyrill The words of Ambrose will prooue that Christ offered his Soule for vs hoc in se obtulit Christus quod induit Christ offered in Sacrifice all that which he assumed Besides that you falsifie Ambrose by adding ALL to his words which haue no such thing in them you â—…est Ambroses words against Ambroses meaning For though it may well be graunted that Christ offered body and soule as a Sacrifice of holinesse and obedience vnto God and that Christs Soule likewise was laid downe vnto the death of his body to feele the smart thereof and to be seuered by the force thereof in which respect Esay saith that Christ powred forth his Soule vnto death Yet Ambrose speaking of Christs sacrifice for the sinnes of the people meaneth as the rest of the Fathers doe that part of the Sacrifice which was slaine which was by his and their confession Christs body and not Christs Soule Heare Ambrose him selfe In quo nisi in corpore expiauit populi peceata In quo passus est nisi in corpore Wherein did Christ sacrifice for the sinnes of the people but in his body wherein did he suffer death but in his body And so Theodoret Christ was called a Priest in his humane nature 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and offered none other Sacrifice but his owne body Athanasius nameth what Christ put on and what he offered The word of God that made all things was afterward made an hie Priest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Putting on a body that was borne and made which he might offer for vs. Nazianzene saith to Christ. Thou art a sheepe because thouwast a Sacrifice thou art an hie Priest because thou offeredst thy body Augustine also Sacerdos propter victimam quam pro nobis offerret a nobis acceptam Christ 〈◊〉 a Priest for the Sacrifice he tooke of vs that he might offer it for vs. What that Sacrifice was he sheweth saying Assumpsit a nobis quod offerret Domino ipsas diximus sanctas primitias carnis ex vtero virginis Christ tooke of vs that he might offer to the Lord we meane the holy first fruits of his flesh taken from the wombe of the Virgine Theophylact A Priest may by no meanes be without a Sacrifice It was then necessarie that Christ should haue somewhat to offer Quod autem offerretur praeter eius corpus nil quidpiam erat necessariò ergo mortuus est Now there was vtterly nothing that he might offer besides his body it was needfull then he should die This that Christ tooke a body to offer is most agreeable to Ambroses mind as well in the booke which you cite as in other parts of his writings Ex segenerauit Maria Marie conceiued of her selfe to wit of her owne body that what was conceiued of her might be the true nature of a body And alleadging Saint Pauls words that Christ was made of the seede of Dauid according to the flesh Rom. 1. and made of a woman Galat. 4. He concludeth Ergo ex nobis accepit quod proprium offerret pro nobis vt nos redimeret ex nostro Then Christ tooke of vs that which hee might offer as his owne for vs to the ende he might redeeme vs by that which was ours And declaring what he meant euen by the words which you bring Christ offered that in himselfe which hee put on Ambrose addeth Non igitur diuinitatem induit sed carnem assumpsit vt spolium carnis exueret Christ put not on the nature of his Diuinitie but he tooke flesh that he might put off the spoyle of his flesh when he should die Now if the flesh of Christ were subiect to all iniuries how say you that Christs flesh is of the same substance with his Godhead What else doe you in so saying but compare Adams slime and our earth to the Diuine substance Here Ambrose plainely confesseth what hee meant Christ tooke vnto him and offered for vs euen Adams slime and our earth whereof his body was made Which elsewhere hee precisely auoucheth saying Corpus suscepit nostrae mortalitatis vt pro nobis haberet quid offerret Christ assumed our mortall body that he might haue what to offer for vs. And least you should after your trifling maner aske whether we exclude an humane soule from the body which Christ tooke of the substance of his mother and which hee offered for vs to death on the Crosse I answere with Ambrose Cum susceperit carnem hominis consequens est vt perfectionem incarnationis plenitudinemque susceperit Nihil enim in Christo imperfectum Where as Christ tooke vnto him the flesh of a man it is consequent that hee tooke vnto him the perfection and fulnesse of incarnation for there is nothing imperfect in Christ. And what neede was there hee should take flesh without a Soule when as an insensible flesh and an vnreasonable soule was neither subiect to sinne nor capable of reward An humane soule was a necessarie sequell to Christs body which he tooke of the seede of Dauid and substance of his mother as it is to all ours before we can be men but the soule is not comprised in the name of the body much lesse doeth it receiue the same conditions and properties which the body doth Though then I make no doubt but Christ at his birth and
shall neuer inferre by phrases of your owne making which only serue to hide your owne meaning that Christ suffered the paines of hell As for Gods wrath against sinne it hath many degrees and parts by the verdict of holy Scripture though you will not heare thereof For as Gods blessings benefits when he first made man were of his heauenly goodnes richly prouided for man and plentifully powred on the body and soule of man as well for the leading of this life in plenty safety and delight as for the surer attaining of euerlasting ioy and blisse in an other place so when man by sinne fell from God by iustice God depriued him and his of all those earthly and bodily fauours and comforts no lesse then of the spirituall and inward gifts and graces of the mind by that meanes making way to his euerlasting and dreadfull Iudgements against sinne Now if these externall things bestowed on man in his first creation were iustly called and must be confessed in their kind to be the blessings and fauours of God afforded to all mankind when he made man and the whole world for his vse then out of question the taking them away from man and subiecting him by iustice to the contrary for sinne committed may as truly be named and must be beleeued to be the signes and effects of Gods displeasure against sinne which the Scripture nameth wrath And so God calleth either of them when he promiseth the one to the obseruers of his Law and threatneth the other to the breakers thereof who vseth not to promise or threaten words but deeds Neither hath it any reason because the reiecting of man from the greater and higher blessings of inward grace and eternall blisse was farre the sorer and sharper punishment of mans sinne that therefore the withdrawing of these should be no degree nor effect of Gods wrath against sinne no more then the losse of a legge or an arme should be counted no mayme because a man hath an head and an hart which are more principall parts of his body Wherefore though in comparison they may be iustly diminished and abased farre beneath the worthinesse of the rest of Gods blessings which are reserued for his Children in an other life yet can they not be denyed to be Gods blessings euen in this life and if to giue them to man when he was first made were the fauour and bountie of God towards man which no Christian may deny to take them from man for sinne must truely argue Gods displeasure against sinne not in improper speech as you gloze but in a lesse degree then those which bring with them perpetuall subuersion of Body and Soule And when the Scriptures meane to expresse the spirituall and eternall wrath of God they doe it not by proprietie of words as you pretend but by different circumstances either of the TIME after this life when no wrath is executed but that which is euerlasting as Christ deliuereth vs from the wrath to come and thou heapest vp wrath against the day of wrath which is the day of iudgement or of the PERSONS who are wicked and the vessels of wrath prepared to destruction and for whom is reserued the mist of darknesse for euer as for such things commeth the wrath of God on the Children of vnbeliefe or of the CONTINVANCE which neuer ceaseth as the wrath of God abideth on him that beleeueth not or of the HIGTH thereof when it is full as the wrath of God is come vpon them to the vttermost or of the CONTRARY when it is eternall life as God hath not appointed vs vnto wrath but to obtaine Saluation by Iesus Christ or of the CONSEQVENTS which are suddaine destruction and such like as kisse the Sonne least he be angry and ye perish in the way when his wrath shall suddenly burne blessed are they that trust in him By these and such like particulars we may perceiue when the Scriptures speake of the one wrath and when of the other but otherwise the wordes are common to both as also the cause which is sinne O Lord saith Moses why doth thy wrath waxe hote against thy people turne from thy fierce wrath and desist from this euill towards thy People And againe I fell downe saith he fortie daies and fortie nights before the Lord because of all your sinnes which yee had sinned doing wickedly in the sight of the Lord and prouoking him For I was afraid of the wrath and indignation wherewith the Lord was kindled against you to destroy you and the Lord heard me at that time also Exceeding many are the places which teach vs that our iniquities auert the outward blessing of this life and that our sinnes hinder good things from vs Though God after that comfort his people when their warrefare is accomplished and they haue receaued sufficient Correction at the hands of God for all their sinnes Surely these warnings of the holy Ghost are not empty words or improper speeches but effectuall and faithfull instructions for the Church of God to learne them that God doth visite their sinnes when they forget to repent and obey though he spare them in comparison of that wrath which is effunded on the wicked And therefore the name of wrath is rightly and truely applyed in the Scriptures euen to those afflictions wherewith God scourgeth his owne Children for their negligence and impenitence though God haue an other and greater which is eternall wrath laid vp in store for the Reprobate who die without Repentance and Remission of their sinnes Howsoeuer the strife for words standeth wherein I confesse I may not be brought to disalow the tongue and pen of the holy Ghost it is most certaine that the Gospel reporteth of Christs sufferings nothing but what was common to him with his members euen in this life where he suffered The Apostles plainely prooue as much to wit that we haue fellowship and communion with Christs afflictions and are conformed to his death Now there is no communion but where the same things are common to both though the degrees may differ And you your selfe when it maketh for you can vrge that the Apostle speaking of Christs sufferings saith He was tempted in all things like to vs yet without sinne So that in my iudgement it is a most cleere case as well by the witnesse of Scripture as by your owne confession that all Christes sufferings were LIKE yea the SAME that ours are as being common to both and consequently if you any way vnderstand what belongeth to trueth or reason the sufferings of the godly must either bee wrath as well as Christes or if their bee not his were not since they were the same And so the godly must either in all their afflictions small and great suffer as Christ did the proper wrath of God and true paines of hell which you make equiualent or if the godly doe not so
with both parts as well with bodie as with soule and so Christ if your proportion were any thing needfull which I wholly reiect as needlesse in the Sonne of God by this reason of yours needed no proper sufferings of the soule without and besides the bodie Paul vnderstoode Rom. 7. vers 7. when hee became a Christian that the desiring of euill is sinne before the outward act bee consummate You alleage Saint Paul as you doe the rest for matters that he neuer meant Paul speaketh not there of the actuall desire of euill when the will hath thereto consented such as was in Adam when hee resolued to eate the forbidden fruite but of the naturall inclination and first motions to sinne which are in vs after Adams disobedience but were not in him before his fall For that precept thou shalt not lust conuinceth and condemneth our nature to be corrupt and sinfull to which originall concupiscence the roote and spring of all sinne in vs cleaueth so fast that euen in our cradles this corruption excludeth vs from the kingdome of God if we be not regenerate in Christ by water and the holy Ghost In Adam besore sinne there was no such thing his nature was vpright and sincere as it was first created and voide of all concupiscence intended by this precept as the best learned of our time teach till by his transgression sinne entred and infected both body and soule Neither doe you conceiue right of Paul as he was a Pharisee when you suppose he tooke the outward fact of sinne onely to bee sinne Neuer read he thinke you when he was a Pharisee the words of Esay Aram hath taken wicked counsell against thee but it shall not stand Nor of Salomon The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord and the euill thought of a foole is sinne Could hee not tell what to iudge of Hamans thoughts against the Iewes or of Achitophels purpose against Dauid or of Balams counsell against the Israelites The very heathen Philosophers placed vertues and vices in the minds of men and the prophane Poets would haue mens enterprises measured by the intent not by the euent The Pharisees were neuer so blinde as to thinke all counsels thoughts desires and lusts to bee lawfull against the manifest and expresse words of the law and Prophets but they blindly mistooke the law of God as forbidding externall facts onely which are hurtfull to others vpon paine of malediction and damnation They rather stood vpon the Popish opinion of veniall and mortall sinnes and did not thinke that veniall sinnes did exclude them from the righteousnesse of the Law nor from the kingdome of heauen Of that opinion was Paul when he was a Pharisee but vpon his conuersion and better instruction by the spirit of Christ hee vnderstoode that not onely euill desires and thoughts were forbidden by the seueral precepts of Gods law as deadly sinnes which the Pharisees would not admit to vphold their owne righteousnesse but that euen the secret tentation to sinne and the inward propension and corruption of our hearts are interdicted and condemned by this precept thou shalt not lust as sinne sufficient to exclude vs from the kingdome of God Your doctrine is very strange where you teach that the soule properly committeth no sin but by with the body that is the soule in it selfe by it selfe alone sinneth not You say all prouocations and pleasures of sin the soule taketh from her body all acts of sin she committeth by her body which speeches are exceeding vntrue and hurtfull To him that either fully can not or rightly will not vnderstand what is said all things seeme strange otherwise set aside your olde ordinarie phrases of proper and meere without which you can say nothing and the matter which you so much maruaileat is very plaine as well by the rules of Scripture as proofes of nature Is it so strange a doctrine with you that the whole man and not this or that part of man is by the word of God charged with the committing of euery sinne and guiltie thereof in such sort that the whole person is defiled therewith and shal be condemned therefore Depart from me Lord saith Peter to Christ for I am a sinfull man Blessed is the man saith Dauid to whom the Lord imputeth no sinne O God be mercifull vnto me a sinner saith the Publicane Tribulation and anguish vpon the soule of euery man that worketh euill saith the Apostle By which as by infinite other places of Scripture wee are taught that the whole person which is man himselfe is the sinner by which part so euer he sinneth Euery one that committeth sinne is the seruant of sinne saith our Sauiour Can the soule be in bondage for sinne and the body bee free Cursed is the man saith Moses that keepeth not all the words of the law to doe them Can the soule bee accursed for sinning and the body be blessed as not sinning The wages of sinne is death saith the Apostle Shall death preuaile against the Soule for sin and the Body escape death as voyd of sinne Surely no. Sinne defileth the whole Man by what part soeuer it is committed yea the very thoughts of the hart coinquinate the whole man When the Pharisees held opinion that meate eaten with vnwashen hands defiled the Body our Sauiour reprooueth that error in them and teacheth his Disciples that nothing without a man can defile him when it entreth into him but the things which come foorth of him are they that defile the Man For from within out of the hart of Man come foorth euill thoughts couetousnesse wantonnesse a wicked eye pride foolishness All these euils come from within and defile a Man Where we see that enuie which Christ noteth by a wicked eye and pride and such like inward sinnes yea and euill thoughts defile the Man that is as well the Body which the Pharisees tooke to be defiled with vncleane hands as the Soule The Apostle stretcheth the infection of sinne farder euen to the meates them selues that are eaten of the wicked All things saith he speaking of meates which the Iewes counted vncleane are cleane to the cleane but to the vncleane and vnbeleeuers nothing is cleane but euen their minde and conscience is vncleane So that the vncleannesse of the inward Man defileth the outward Man and all things which the outward Man vseth This is so true that not onely the guiltinesse and filthinesse of sinne is in this life communicated from the Soule to the Body but both shal be therefore condemned in the righteous iudgement of God to euerlasting fire We must all appeare before the tribunal of Christ euery man to receiue the things done by his Body Where all sorts of sinnes in thought word or deede are by the Apostle called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or as others read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 things done
to cast in his face And though there be neuer so manie old and new writers that would leade you to the true senâ—…e of these words you leaue them all and will needs by wilfull abusing the Scriptures haue Christ to be sinfull and defiled hatefull and accursed euen to God for taking vpon him to purge vs from our sinnes I shewed you the iudgement of Austen and Ambrose in my conclusion for the right vnderstanding of these words but you satisfied with nothing saue with your owne sense pasâ—…e surly by them and the rest as multitudes of men and preferre the proud conceit you haue of your selfe before them all Yet for the Readers sake that he may settle his iudgement with trueth and sobrietie he shall see the consent of all ages and writers how Christ was made sinne for vs and how he condemned sinne in the flesh Origen that Christ was made the sacrifice for sinne and offered for the clensing of sinnes all the Scriptures witnesse touching this sacrifice of his flesh it is said he condemned sinne in the flesh as the same Apostle else where sayth he appeared in the later times to destroy sinne By this sacrifice then of his flesh which was offered for sinne he condemned sinne that is he chased sinne away and abolished it Cyrill Christ is therefore made according to the Scriptures a sacrifice for sinne For this cause we say he is called sinne at selfe for so Paul writeth Him that knew no sinne God the Father made sinne for vs. We doe not say that Christ was made a sinner God forbid but being iust yea Iustice it selfe the Father made him a sacrifice for the sinnes of this world Ierom the Father made Christ who knew not sinne to be sinne for vs that is as the sacrifice offered for sinne is called sinne in the Law In Leuiticus it is written He shall lay his hand on the head of his sinne So Christ being offered for our sinnes tooke the name of sinne Augustine Christ then did no sinne but God made him sinne for vs that is as I haue said a sacrifice for sinne For if thou remember or wilt reade thou shalt finde in the bookes of the old Testament the sacrifice for sinne to be called sinne Againe God then made Christ sinne for vs that is a sacrifice by which our sinnes should be remitted because sacrifices for sinne are called sinne And so in the questions vpon Numbers It is said he shall offer a Lambe for a sinne because that which was offered for sinne was called sinne Whence it is that the Apostle saith of the Lord Christ him that knew no sinne God the Father made sinne for vs that is a sacrifice for sinne He that will see this more at large repeated and confirmed let him read at his leasure Saint Austen 120. Epistle cap. 30. the third booke and 6. Chapter against the two Epistles of the Pelagians his Enchiridion cap. 41. besides the seuenth Sermon De verbis Apostoli and the 48. Sermon De verbis Domini secundum Ioannem which I formerly alleaged Oecumenius the sacrifice which is offered for sinne is called sinne as the Prophet saith they eate the sinnes of my people that is the sacrifices for sinne So the Father made the Sonne a sacrifice to be offered for sinnes Primasius likewise the sacrifice for sinne is in the Law called sinne though it did not sinne as it is written and he shall laie his hands on the head of his sinne So Christ being offered for our sinnes tooke the name of sinne Sedulius obserueth the same words Beda Our Redeemer was made sinne that we might be the righteousnesse of God in him How In the Law the sacrifices which were offered for sinne are called sinne When the offering was brought for sinne the Law sayth the Priests shall put their hands vpon the sinne that is vpon the sacrifice for sinne And what els was this but Christ the true sacrifice for sinne Behold by what sinne he condemned sinne by the sacrifice which he made for sinne euen thereby he condemned sinne To skip Haymo Lyra and others the eleuenth Councell of Toledo in the confession of their faith Christ in the forme of man which he assumed is according to the trueth of the Gospell beleeued to haue beene borne without sinne and to haue died without sinne who aloâ—… was made sinne for vs that is the sacrifice for our â—…innes The new writers beare euen with the old To omit Erasmus Bullinger Peter Martyr Musculus Gualter Vitus Theodorus and others who doe follow the same steps Aretius vpon these words God by sinne condemned sinne in the flesh that is saith he All our sinne in our flesh God condemned by or for sinne to wit by or for the Sacrifice appointed for sinne Now Christ is the Lambe of God which taketh away the sinne of the world this Lambe is called sin because in the Law the sacrifices are called the sinne for which they are offered Hence is it that Christ who knew no sinne was made sinne by his Father Beza in his notes on the New Testament and on those words Him that knew no sinne God made sinne sayth Paul calleth sinne in this latter place the sacrifice for sinne after a maner of speech proper to the Hebrewes with whom the word Ascham is so taken as Leuiticus 7. 2. Tremelius the publisher and interpreter of your Syriack Testament obserueth the like vpon the same place Him that knew no sinne he made sinne for you that is a sacrifice for sinne which euery where in the bible is called Chattath by which name sinne also is called The booke of Homilies authorised in this Realme holdeth so fast to this exposition that it setteth it downe in the Apostles name as the Apostles true meaning S. Paul likewise sayth God made him a sacrifice for our sinne which knew no sinne that we should be made the righteousnesse of God in him The Apostle farder sayth the second time Christ shall appeare without sinne meaning that the first time he appeared with sinne Put the Apostles words vttered in the same place touching Christes first appearing with sinne to these which you cite and the sense is plaine and easie of it selfe In the end of the world Christ appeared once to put away sinne by the sacrifice of himselfe and vnto them that looke for him he shall appeare the second time without sinne vnto saluation Christes first appearing was with sinne that is either with an offering for sinne or with the infirmitie tentation miâ—…erie and mortalitie of sinne for such was the time of his humilitie when he came to purge sinne by the oblation of his bodie the next time of his appearing shall be in glorie that is without either sacrifice for sinne or any other infirmitie of sinners For sinne applied to Christ in the Scriptures may receiue a triple interpretation as Austen obserueth
day shall award heauen and hell with the warrant of this speech I was hungrie and yee gaue me meate I thirsted and yee gaue me drinke I was a stranger and ye lodged me I was naked and yee clothed me I was sicke yee visited me I was in prison and yee came vnto me and so foorth where in one Chapter Christ calleth his members by the name of himselfe 27. times All which are most false of Christs person for he then raigned in glory at the right hand of his Father endured none of those miseries but yet they are most true in his members whom he calleth by the name of himselfe because he loued them as himselfe more then himselfe since for their sakes he humbled and emptied himselfe And this reason of his words himselfe will giue before men and Angels â—… In as much as you did it vnto one of the least of my brethren you did it vnto mee The same is verie vsuall in the Scriptures Hee that heareth you heareth me and he that despiseth you despiseth me He that receaueth you receaueth mee They haue not reiected thee said God to Samuel they haue reiected mee He that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eie Where a most louing acceptation is shewed of the sufferings and seruices of men for Christes sake but no proper attributton verified of Christ. This Damascene expresseth by making two kinds of appropriation vnto Christ in the Scriptures one naturall and substantiall the other personall and habituall Naturall as when the Lord in Nature and trueth being made a man had experience of things incident to our Nature Personall and habituall as when one putteth on the person of another for pittie or loue and vseth speech in his name and for him NOTHING APPERTAINING TO the speaker HIMSELFE According to which Christ appropriated the curse and dereliction due to vs not himselfe being made those things but assuming our person and reckoning himselfe with vs. For neither as God nor as man was he euer forsaken of his Father neither was he made sinne nor a curse Assuming therefore our person and reckoning himselfe with vs as the head for the members he spake these things For weâ—… were guiltie of sinne and malediction as incredulous and disobedient and for that cause were forsaken Which are Cyprians plaine words also Quòd pro eis voluisti intelligi qui deseri à Deo propter peccata meruerant Thy complaint of forsaking thou wouldst haue vnderstood as spoken for them who had deserued to be forsaken of God in regard of their sinnes Then by Cyprians iudgement Christ spake those wordes neither for himselfe nor of himselfe but for those and of those that deserued to be forsaken of God whom he calleth by the name of himselfe as he doth oftentimes elsewhere in the Scriptures because they were members of his bodie and as deare to him as himselfe If this be all that Cyprians words imply how come you to make that false and prophane collection out of Cyprian that Christ suffered such a forsaking of God touching sense of paine and want of present seeling of comfort in his paines AS THE DAMNED DOE You would faine set your infernall imaginations to sale vnder the names of some of the auncient Fathers to inure your Reader with the name of the DAMNED lest he should detest your irreligious presumption if you should proferre these pedegrees in your owne name But a man may know the fowle by the feather and your deuices shew themselues by the verie vtterance of them For expressing two points in Christes sufferings the one is sensiblie absurd the other apparantly false and wicked The paine of Christes soule you euery where defend was inflicted by the immediate hand of God and was the selfe same which the damned doe suffer Then how could this be called a forsaking in Christ when it was rather a plaine persuing of him by Gods owne hand Doth a man depart from an other when he persueth him or forsake him whom he followeth with the stroke of his hand If therefore Christes suffering in soule came from the immediate hand of God as you dreame Christ should haue said my God my God why persuest thou me or why doth thine hand oppresse me and not why doest thou forsake me and leaue me in the hands of mine enemies without any shew that thou regardest or respectest me The second point is farre woorse For if Christ had no more comfort in his paine theâ—… the damned haue then Christ for the time of his suffering had neither faith hope grace nor loue of God nor any fauour with God nor â—…xpectation that hee himselfe should be saued much lesse that he should saue others from all which the damned are cleane cut off Indeed this was the conceit that the diuel by the mouths of the wicked did vrge against Christ to vpbraid him with his case as desperate and to persue him as forsaken of God and therefore this resolution that Christ was thus indeed forsaken or felt no more present comfort then the damned doe is plainly the diuels Diuinitie and maketh as flat a contradiction to all the Scriptures as any the damned themselues could deuise For Dauid ledde by the spirit of God sayth exactly of Christes sufferings in the person of Christ I set the Lord alwaies before me he is at my right hand that I shall noâ—… slide Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue reioiceth my flesh also doth rest in hope And the Apostle saith that Iesus for the ioy that was set before him endured the crosse and despised the shame And he that against these expresse Scriptures auoucheth that Christ had no more feeling of any comfort in his paines then the damned haue in theirs I see no cause why the whole Church of Christ should not hold him madde or woorse But you meane no present comfort As if faith hope and grace the assured fauour and promise of God yea personall coniunction with God and his owne certaine knowledge that he should rise againe the third day Lord of the quicke and dead and Sauiour of the whole world did not yeeld him present comfort in the middest of his greatest paine insomuch that the Apostle saith Christ endured the crosse hee meaneth with patience and desâ—…ised the shame thereof So great was the ioy proposed and comfort conceaued euen in the sharpest of his sufferings By present comfort you meane present deliuerance Meane what you will your meaning is lewd and wicked to broche the doctrine of diuels vnder parables and paraphrases of abused wordes and slâ—…e comparisons with the damned For if Christ hâ—…d hope then had he comfort because hope confoundeth not If he had no hope then did he despaire and so must you admit in Christ either consolation which you denâ—…e or desperation for the time which must be ioyned with infidelitie fâ—…r that he could not want hope but by lacke of faith
Because you coyne new Principles of Religion you thinke your selfe Authorized to make newe Rules for Similitudes In the Scriptures it is not required that Similitudes made of God or of Christ his Sonne should be lawfull in euery part of the Comparison but onely that they be possible and so propose the thing which the holy Ghost would intimate The day of the Lord shall come euen as a Theife in the night Will you iustifie night Robbers because Christs comming is resembled to theirs Christ draweth a comparison from the vnrighteous Iudge to God and taketh likewise a Similitude from Vsurers and Extortioners to teach that God will haue his gifts carefully imployed Will you by that Parable make it lawfull to lend money for aduantage Or for men to reape where they did not sow because these things are proportioned to Gods graces Christ bringeth the Similitude of an vnfaithfull Steward that wasted his Masters goods and abated his Masters debts and saith the Lord and Master commended the vniust Steward that he had done wisely Will you hence vphold prodigalitie and infidelitie in seruants which cosen their Masters rather then they will worke or want Similitudes we see of things most vnlawfull are made and referred to Gods Actions by Christ himselfe and therefore it is no weakning to my Similitude whatsoeuer you say that no King hath power by Gods Law to lay bodily death on his Innocent Sonne I doe not by that resemblance make any thing lawfull or vnlawfull but shew how euill it becommeth Prisoners and Captiues to twite or vpbraid their Redeemers and deliuerers as if they were defiled and guiltie of their Sinnes for whom they mediate and intreate Of bodily death I spake neuer a word that is your Idle conceite added to my comparison But the Similitude fitteth not Christs sufferings in our Redemption No more doth any Similitude that man can make I say of Christs death as Saint Austen saith of his birth If you seeke for areason it shall not be wonderfull if you aske for an example it shall not be singular The Acts of men may in some sort resemble or imitate they cannot match or euen the works of God But why are you so curious in other mens Similitudes that are so carelesse of your own Doth your example of a Suretie fit the bodily sufferings of Christ I hope humane lawes haue no power nor practise to take mens liues away for Suretiship nay they allow no Sureties for any corporall paines as we saw before because no man is Master of his owne Body to engage the whole or any part thereof to be mangled or maymed vnlesse he will be an homicide of himselfe which Gods Law doth not permit nor mans Law accept How much lesse then doth your Suretie resemble the paines of the damned suffered in the Soule of Christ as you say from the immediate hand of God If men haue no power to pawne their owne Soules nor to kill other mens your similitude of a Suretie bound to the Law to pay an other mans debts is as wide from Christes sufferings as mine and farre wider For he must be Suretie not onely life for life but Soule for Soule which Mans Law doth not meddle with And yet your owne example of a Suretie serueth my turne to declare your Doctrine to be false as well as any other For if a Man fined by a Court for ryots contempts or other misdemeanures and committed to prison till he pay the same find friends that to purchase his libertie will make present payment of his fine haue you any reason or conscience to charge them as guiltie or partakers of those Riots or other offences done by him whom they deliuer If men may be Sureties Mediators and ransomers of others and yet not deserue to be blamed for other mens Crimes why could not the Sonne of God take vpon him the punishment of our sinnes and yet be most free from the fault and guilt thereof Because God did punish Christ you will say with his immediate hand which he would not doe if Christ were Innocent Soft Sir that is no way prooued but barely pretended by you that God was the Tormentor of Christs Soule with his immediate hand The Scriptures teach the contrarie that God deliuered him into the hands of sinners to doe what soeuer Gods hand and counsell had determined before to be done And though the wicked be the Rod of Gods wrath and the staffe in their hands is his Indignation Yet serue they their malice in afflicting the faithfull when God hath an other end which is most iust and holy to put his Saints to the tryall of their obedience and patience in suffering for righteousnesse sake that he may be glorified in them and they exalted and crowned by him In the cruell and wrongfull death of his Sonne to which Christ willingly submitted himselfe God had farre greater and waightier causes and works euen the Redemption of the world and the demonstration of his Diuine power and wisedome and such like which I haue often mentioned and therefore doe presently passe them with silence An other Reason of mine you impugne with marueylous skorne and detestation That seeing Christ on the Crosse spoyled powers and Principalities and made a shew of them openly triumphing ouer them Therefore I collected that Christ selt the diuels as the very instruments that wrought the very effects of Gods wrath vpon him I grant I tooke it to be not a ridiculous but impious iest rather then a tolerable reason for you to conclude that because Christ triumphed ouer diuels therefore diuels tormented his Soule with the very effects of Gods wrath which euery where you make to be the paines of the damned And surely as yet why I should conceiue better of it I see nothing either proued or produced by you First you assume that these words of the Apostle were spoken of Christ hanging on the Crosse but what Scripture assureth that besides your selfe you peremptorily put it into the Text by saying Christ on the Crosse spoyled Principalities but your additions are no good illations with me The place if you take the paines to turne to it doth rather shew the Contrarie To proue that the faithfull are tied neither to the Rites and shadowes of the Law nor to any submission or seruice of Angels the Apostle bringeth Christs death for the one where the hand-writing of Ceremonies that kept vs in bondage was fastned to the Crosse and so cancelled and we freed from it and for the other he bringeth Christs Resurrection by which all contrarie powers were openly spoyled triumphed and subiected to Christ as to the head of all power and principalitie Yee were buried with him in Baptisme saith Paul with whom yee were also raised and when yee were dead in sinnes and in vncircumcision of your flesh he quickned you together with him forgiuing your sinnes and cancelling the hanauriting of ordinances
haue what reason had you out of the Apostle to conclude so confidently that Christ must suffer the very same sorowes and paines of hell which sometimes in this life befall some men through vehement remorse of sinne and faintnesse of faith For they are not generall to all Ages and Persons and if they were yet proceede they from the guiltinesse of our owne consciences and the not feeling of Gods grace for the time that we may see our owne vnworthinesse neither of which could haue place in Christ. Generall termes you say should be vnderstood according to the possibilitie and probabilitie of the matter Be those the raines of your Reasons that you will vtter matters neither probable nor possible and then require to haue your speech recalled to possibilitie and probabilitie Doe other men vse so to speake or write that when they haue ouer lashed themselues they flie to probabilities and possibilities such as they best like You must looke good Sir to your Propositions and Conclusions that they be sound and good concording with the grounds of Faith and Rules of holy Scripture and then you shall not neede to make such idle reseruations Now in your Conceits which I repeated and refuted what probabilitie or possibilitie doe you dreame of that Christ was touched and plunged deeper then any other man into feares Passions and Agonies of reiection confusion desperation and damnation though at last with much a doe he wrastled from them all Such Probabilities keepe to your selfe no wise Christian will admit them except he see them prooued with stronger Reasons and cleerer Testimonies then such loose possibilities and probabilities as you bring Your waterish stuffe in the rest of this page is not woorth the speaking to You wander about to salue the smallest and cleane skip ouer the greatest points that are obiected against you That l Defenc. pag. 87. Christ had not his eies put out as Sampson had nor was swallowed vp by a Whale as Ionas was nor was cast into a burning fornace as Sydrac and his fellowes were nor was stoned to death as Naboth and Steuen were These I say were iust and full reproofes of your licencious inference that Christ of necessitie must suffer whatsoeuer his members suffered I opposed other instances besides these touching the soule of man from which Christ hath holpen many though he neuer had experience of thâ—… same as from caecitie and obstinacie of heart from infideliâ—…ie and all manner of Iniquitie from frensie furie follie and such like vexations and afflictions of diuels Wherein if you giue Christ no power nor abilitie to heare and helpe at his good pleasure you take both his honor and office from him If you confesse which the Scriptures auouch that he hath healed many which were possessed and oppressed by the diuell then you must either recall your inuincible Reason as a palpable follie or else you must subiect the Body and Soule os Christ not only to diuels which you dare doe but to all manner of Impâ—…etie and iniquitie since there is no sinne so great which Christ will not forgiue vpon true repentance saue wilfull Blasphemie against his Spirit You speake of Paines not of sinnes And is it no paine to be possessed with the diuell in body or mind as we read of many in the Gospell diseases burning 〈◊〉 and such like which Christ neuer suffered are they no paines frensie furie lunacie are they not rather painfull and greeuous punishments of sinne then sinne your Proposition which could not be refuted by the witte of Man was this Christ succoureth vs not but wherein he had experience of our Temptations and Infirmities This speaketh of Temptations and Infirmities now how farre these words doe stâ—…etch can you not tell but you will amend the matter and cleere both the Apostle and your owne Conclusion m Defenc. pag 87 〈◊〉 37 pag â—…8 1. 1. Thus this Scripture is cleered and my Reason iustified Christ succoureth vs not in any extreamer kind of paine then he himselfe had experience of But he succoureth vs in the feeling of the terrors of God he releaseth vs of the paines sorrowes vnâ—…easurable that rise thereof Therefore him selfe had experience of them You should doe well to tell vs how this Scripture is cleered the place prooueth that Christ had a Similitude with hiâ—… Bretheren in generall that is as well in flesh and bloud subiect to death as other sufâ—… and temptations These three the Apostle reckneth and calleth katapanta all the parts of Resemblance which Christ had with the weaknesse and wretchednesse of our condition and Nature Your selfe confesse those three to wit n Defenc. pag. 8â—… li. 6. Infirmities Temptations and afflictions to be all the things wherein Christ was like vs for his manhood in substance was the same that ours is and so more then like As for en 〈◊〉 by which you would haue to be signified o Ibid. li. 28. All the matter and euery kinde of paine Wherein Christ succoureth vs besides the manifest falsenesse of that construction which I haue sufficiently reprooued you depart as your manner is from all Interpreters new and old to a singular sense that no man liketh but your selfe The Gâ—…ke Schoâ—…s collected by Occumenius thus expound it p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 2. cap. ad Heb. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in that he suffered signifieth For as mvch as he 〈◊〉 And Theodorct The Apostle saith q Theodoret. â—…n 2. ca. ad Heb. Whereas by experience Christ learned the weakenesse of Mans Nature he hâ—…lpeth those that are impugned And Theophylact. r Theophylact. in 2. cap. ad Hebreâ—…s That which the Apostle saith is this Because as a Man Christ vnderstandeth all by experience and knoweth what affliction and 〈◊〉 is therefore he can helpe that is he is the readier to streteh forth his hand and with mercie to aide the oppressed From these perhaps you will derogate the knowledge of the Greeke tongue though they were all naturall Grecians as you do from Saint Austen but that will doe you little good and lesse honestie For the skilfullest interpreters that are of our Age and Religion and wâ—…l learned in the Greeke tongue do exactly agrâ—… with them against you 〈◊〉 in his obseruations vpon the new Testaâ—…ent saiâ—…h s 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in 2. ca. ad Hebreâ—…s 〈◊〉 id est 〈◊〉 THEREFORE 〈◊〉 Christ suffered and was tempted he is able to 〈◊〉 them that are tempted t In 2. caâ—… ad Hebrees Caluine t In 2. caâ—… ad Hebrees Beza t In 2. ca. ad Hebrees Piscator t In 2. ca. ad Hebrees Marlorate t In 2. ca. ad Hebrees 〈◊〉 in his Translation and others with one consent expresse en ho not by WHEREIN as you doe but by ex eo quod 〈◊〉 hoc quod ex quô by that which Christ suffered or becausâ—… he sufâ—…ered and was tempted he is able or ready to succour the tempted The 〈◊〉
Translation expoundeth it by for as much as And though you would 〈◊〉 the matâ—… and the 〈◊〉 together least you should be taken tardie with a violent wresting of the Scriptures yet the simplâ—… can see great diâ—…nce betweene these two Interpretations WHEREIN Christ suffered and was tempted therein and in nothing eâ—…se he is able to succour vs which is your erroneous exposition of the Apostles 〈◊〉 and by this that Christ suffered or because he suffered and was tempted he is able that is ready to helpe them that are tempted which is the Generall Resolution of all these late Expositors And so your clâ—…g of the Scriptures is the crossing and misconsturing of them against the full accord of new and old Interpreters As for your reason that is iustified with a â—…itnesse as error is 〈◊〉 by wilfull ignorance The Defenders 〈◊〉 in framing Arguments For if a man would rake vp all the reasons that euer thwarted Aâ—… or truth he shall hardly finde any more or worse â—…aults in any 〈◊〉 then this hath To a Negâ—… maâ—…or being a plaine comparison you put an Negatiue conclusion that is a simple position all three propositions haue one and the same subiect and the predicate in the Conclusion is no where found in the premisâ—…es But your Arte is like your trueth and therefore I maruell at neither The forme of your reason being so out of frame let vs see how the matter of it can be iustified The maior of your first argument which â—…ou 〈◊〉 u Trea pa. 46 li. 31. could neuer be refuâ—…ed by the witte of man was this Christ succoureth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but wherein he had experience of our temptations and infirmities that is Christ helpeth no man in any thing which he himâ—… before hath not felt This false and lâ—…d assertion you are gone from and now you substitute an other of the same here by way of comparison Christ x Defenc. pag. 87. 〈◊〉 38. succâ—…ureth vs not in any extreamer kinde of 〈◊〉 then he 〈◊〉 had experience of Before it was the selfe same paine but now it must be as extreame a paine though not the same Neither of these hath any foundation in the sacred Scriptures nor any coherence with the question which I proposed Besides this later which is new coined is a bold intrusion vpon things vnknowne a false comparison of Christs succouring and suffering and no way helpeth the Conclusion that is sowed to it For first how prooue you that former oâ—… this later proposition 〈◊〉 you will say must be like 〈◊〉 in all things Omit that thâ—…se wordes are but that any such came simply from me truely I doe not remember they made nothing to my matter who proposed the death of Christ by the shedding of his bloâ—…d to be the full redemption of mankinde without the death of the soule and paines of the damned And by that time we both are considered you are as likely a man to fitten or misconceiue as I to forget and mistake mine owne doctrine Next we see that your plaâ—…e out of Ambrose is alo fully to the same effect Both Cyrill 〈…〉 24. and Ambrose speake to one effect but neither of them one word to your purposâ—… Christ taking our nature tooke also our naturall affections of feare and sorow So sayd Cyrill so sayth Ambrose What then ergo Christ doubted and feared reiection and damnation Be those naturall or sinfull feares in vs If sinfull Christ had nothing to do with them He was like vs in all things sinne excepted Naturall they are not because they are neither necessary nor common to all though they be consequents of our sinâ—…ull corruption when faith faileth vs. There is a feare as Damascene teacheth which is natural and innocent and not subiect to sinne This the Lord admittâ—…d or suffered when he would not as we doe by constraint There is another feare 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that proceedeth from infidelitie and the betraying or selfe-yeelding of our thoughts This the Lord admitted not You confound both these and by one which â—…s a naturall infirmity would proue the other which is a sinfull infidelitie to be in Christes person But awake out of this drowsie dreame and you shall see them not onely distinct but as farre distant the one from the other as iniquity is from the integrity of mans nature That Christ layed aside for the time the delight of his eternall Deity and would be aâ—…ed with the tediousnesse of our infirmitie Ambrose sayth but that it parted away from him is your false translation not Ambrosâ—…s intention That Christ did not dissemble our naturall affections of griefe and sorow but would feele them for our sake and in respect of our danger Ambrose confesseth but that Christ exempted himselfe from nothing Defenâ—…â—…ag â—…8 li. 33. in his passion that we haue experience of as touching paines and sorrowes this is your medly it is no part of Ambroses meaning The causes of Christes sorrow are in that place repeated by Ambrose you haue the cunning to skippe them and to surmise others in their steads of which Ambrose neuer dreampt as the feare and terror of reieâ—…tion maledâ—…ction and damnation which Ambrose abhorreth k Pro me doluit 〈…〉 quod doleret Christ sorowed for me who had nothing which he might sorâ—…w for himselfe l Doles igitur Domine non tua sed mea vulnera non tuam mortem sed nostram infirmitatem Thou grieuest therefore Lord sayth Ambrose not at thy wounds but at mine not at thine owne death but at our weaknesse The occasions and respects of 〈◊〉 griefe and sorow are there set downe by Ambrose which you make light of and therefore you abuse the words of Ambrose not so much against me as against himselfe But these places and particulars I haue handled before that may suffice till we come to Christes agony m Defenâ—… pag. 〈◊〉 li 1. To this vâ—…ry purpose also many others before rehearsed do affirme most fully He that knew not your vaine and vaunting humour would thinke that so many names of ancient Fathers as Nâ—…ianzene Fulgentius Bernard Tertullian and Ierome should not be impanelled but to some purpose but the Reader hath by this time so good experience of your mistakings and wrestings that he will easily suppose you would make your most aduantage as well of their words as of their names if you had any sure holde in them Howbeit these places are already discussed and therefore as you referre me to the Pages where you cited them so I send you to the places where I examined and answered them Where the Reader shall soone see how you can play with places that make nothing for you by dreaming that ancient Fathers thought as you do because they speake of humane infirmitie and sorow in Christes soule n Dâ—…fenâ—… pa. 89. l. 4. You greatly abuâ—…e them who take tâ—…em otherwise namely as if they meant that by the flesh and blouâ—…shed of
place which thinketh that Paul led with a feruent This exposition may not simply be receiued loue and zeale to haue the Iewes partakers of Christ did not remember or respect either the Counsell or Iustice of God to be immutable which yet are but brake forth into a vehement affection as desiring to exchange his eternall damnation for their Saluation These leaue out all manner of Conditions not because there were not many and must be many before the wish can be religious and pleasing to God but for that the Apostle wholy defixed on his care for the Iewes did not in that Passion consider the rest But by their leaues that are the leaders to this exposition well this may be conceaued of some short and suddaine motion rising from mans infirmitie but this can neuer be imagined of the Apostle aduisedly and iudicially writing to the Romans and weighing all his words with the wisedome of Gods spirit which if they take from the Apostle in that part of this Epistle where he calleth Christ and the holy Ghost to witnesse that he speaketh the truth I see not why they may not derogate all Authoritie from the rest of his writings when after so great deliberation and vehement protestation they make him forget the chiefest grounds of Christian Religion earnestly vrged by himselfe in the selfe same Epistle and euen in the next wordes before written in the later ende of the eight Chapter It is therefore a dangerous position to say the Apostle was amazed or astonished in his writings or so caried away with his affections that he knew not what he wrote in those Scriptures which are Canonicall For it openeth a gap to all impieties and heresies to thinke that Paul led with Christs spirit did not remember nor respect that Gods eternall election could not be changed nor the chosen vessels of Christ be euerlastingly condemned for the loue and zeale which they bare to Christ nor any man or Angell admitted to be the Redeemer and deliuerer of the Reprobate from the iust and deserued wrath of God prouided for them All which pestilent errors are consequent to this supposition that the Apostles speech was absolutely without condition and must be graunted to be possible before his desire or wish could simply take place It is therefore resolued euen by them who first deuised this exposition that Pauls wish in this place was wholy impossible as well in respect of God who would not change his eternall counsels and decrees as of the Apostle who being a chosen vessell could not perish and likewise of the Iewes whose deserued destruction so often denounced by our Sauiour as where he said h Matth. 21. The kingdome of God shall be taken from you and to Ierusalem i Luke 19. They shall not leaue in thee a stone vpon a stone because thou knewest not the day of thy visitation and many such threats could not be auerted Only this Defender to shew his discretion out of these darke places which admit many senses collecteth that to be possible which by the verdict of the holy Scriptures and of all Interpreters new and old is auouched to be simply impossible and thence he maketh his notable obseruations which indeede are nothing else but grosse and palpable errors k Defenc. pag. 96. li. 25. From thence I obserue foure notable points First That if God omnipotent and onely soueraigne Lord will he may inflict damnation and the paines of hell vpon meere men not for themselues but for others nor for their owne sinnes but for the imputed sinnes of other men much rather then might he doe this to Christ whom God sent indeede and ordained for that purpose Flatly contrarie to your Assertion To make your Obseruation Note the nearer to the patterne which you follow you must say that God if he will may inflict eternall damnation for temporall damnation to hell the Scripture knoweth none on his elect so were Moses and Paul for their loue to Christ and their Foure notable errors falsely grounded on the facts of Moses Paul whereof 〈◊〉 the first bretheren for that was the cause of their wish And then you haue made a worthy Corollarie that indeede contrarieth my Assertion and not mine onely but also the expresse words of the holy Ghost the maine grounds of the Christian Faith and the resolution of all writers first and last that haue spoken of these places To Moses Petition Gods answere was that he would not wipe an Innocent out of his booke but l Exod. 32. verse 33. Whosoeuer hath sinned against me said God I will put him out of my booke So that God himselfe did not onely refuse Moses Prayer in that part but declared it to be repugnant to his Iustice to condemne the guiltlesse with the guiltie The Apostle the next words before these by which you would make it possible that he might perish for others professed that m Rom. 8. v. 38. neither death nor life nor Angels nor things present nor things to come nor heigth nor deapth nor any other creature was able to separate him from the loue of God in Christ. And therefore generally demandeth n Ibid. v. 35. Who shall separate vs from the loue of Christ No creature is able as he exactly auoucheth and as for the Creator o Verse 33. It is God that iustifieth and therefore cannot be contrarie to himselfe p Verse 34. who shall condemne where God in Christ doth acquite God you thinke may change his mind His eternall counsell decreed reuealed and assured in Christ God neither will correct because he is wise and before all worlds foresaw all that might mooue him to the contrarie neither can alter because he is truth and so can neither repent nor change as men doe The q Rom. 11. Gifts and calling of God are without repentance r 2. Tim. 2. The foundation of God standeth sure and hath this seale the Lord knoweth who are his s Iames. 1. With him is no varying nor turning And therefore our Sauiour excepteth it as a thing not possible that the elect should perish when he saith that false Prophets and great wonders in the later daies should deceaue t Matth. 24. If that were possible the very Elect. By his power you will say God may doe it though he will not Gods power was most absolute ouer all creatures to dispose them at his pleasure before he determined and setled his will in Christ Iesus what to doe with them since which the holy Ghost teacheth vs in plaine words it is impossible that God should lie hauing made his promise to all his elect in Christ and bound it with an Othe not because he is become weaker then he was but because he hath fastned his counsell and reuealed his truth in his Sonne which he neither will nor can change not for want of power but because of his truth which is constant and immutable u Heb. 6.
voluntarily subiect himselfe to our miseries paines and afflictions I then neither doe nor neede denie that our naturall infirmities were common to Christ with vs but those were voluntarily receiued in him e August de trinitate li. 4. cap. â—…3 quia voluit quando voluit quomodo voluit because he would when he would and as he would euen as Austen saith of his death And though it be most true which the Apostle writeth of Christ f 2. Cor. 13. He was crucified through or as touching his infirmitie which was the flesh of man in him yet Saint Austens exposition of those words is right good where he saith g Ibid. lib. 13. cap. 14. de qua infirmitate ait Apostolus quod infirmum est dei fortius est hominibus euen of that 〈◊〉 wherein Christ was crucified the Apostle also saith the weaknesse of God is stronger then men What seemed weaknesse in Christ and is so called in the Scriptures in comparison of his diuine power euen that farre passeth the power and strength of men and therefore the same Apostle calleth h 1. Cor. 1. Christ crucified the wisedome and power of God i Defenc. pag. 101. li. 9. Faine you would wipe away that Argument of ours which sticketh neerer to you then you will seeme In malefactours there is a quiet and contented suffering of most exquisite and extraordinarie torments often times which they endure onely by 〈◊〉 naturall strength and courage of mind How much more likely is it then that Christ the very Rock of all strength and fountaine of patience would not thus seeme affrighted and astonished for his meere bodily death and that before it came vnto him Your brablement is more tedious to me then your Argument troublesome You spend here a whole leafe to shew that Malefactors and Martyrs oâ—…ten suffer most horrible torments very quietly and altogether without any such agonie as Christ shewed in the Garden How maketh that against me who teach out of Hilarie Ambrose Ierom and Bede that Christ was not thus agonized for any sufferings of his owne much lesse for feare of a bodily death though he would be like vs in hauing a naturall horror of death as Athanasius Austen Cyrill and Damascene affirme What wandering and trifling is this to be loquent in things superfluous and silent in matters most serious The whole worke and waight of our redemption was now before Christs eyes and apprehension in more exact and liuely manner he now appearing before the iudgement seate of God then we in this body can discerne or describe For as all things needfull shall be present and patent to vs when we are brought to Gods Tribunall where no truth of things without vs or within vs which concerne vs shall be couered or concealed from vs so Christ presenting himselfe before the iudgement of God to haue Man redeemed by the ransome which he would yeeld for him and satan eiected from preuayling against his members by his mediation did perfectly and fully behold both the detestation that Gods holinesse had of all our sinnes and the power of his wrath prouoked by our defection and rebellion as also the dreadfull vengeance prepared and ordained for sinne and our dull and carelesse contempt of our owne miserie together with the watchfulnesse and egernesse of the Aduersarie the brunt and burden of all which he must receaue and auert from vs by that kind of satisfaction and recompence which the iustice of God should then require at his hands None of those things might be hid from Christs present and perfect view when he came now to performe that which the iudgement of God should thinke a iust price and full recompence for the sinnes of men The due consideration contemplation intuition and apprehension whereof being in Christ more cleare then we can conceaue might worthily make the Manhood of Christ not onely feare and tremble but in his prayers to God to stirre and inflame all the powers and parts of body and Soule as farre as mans nature and spirit were able with all submission intention and deprecation possible to powre forth themselues before God These you push away not as false but as parts of Christs holinesse as if any feare or sorrow could be in Christ which were not religious and holy and substitute other sufferings of the damned as the second death and the true paines of hell from the immediate hand of God deuiced by your selfe without any direction of the Scriptures and those you dreame Christ not onely feared but really felt in the Garden otherwise he could not sorrow and sweate as he did And because you would seeme to say somewhat though little to the purpose and lesse against me who auouch no such thing you heape vp heere malefactours murderers and theeues besides martyrs who neuer sweate bloud for any bodily torments inflicted on them Grant all this though there be differences which yet you see not what inferre you That Christ did not thus sweate for his bodily death What then Ergo he suffered in the Garden the death of the damned and the true paines of hell This conclusion hangeth to the premisses with hay-ropes you winde it which way you will and then you say I would faine wipe it off But to me that neither say nor said any such thing that Christ was thus agonized onely for feare of his meere bodily death these be rather wildgoose-races then sober mens reasons impugning any thing that I did or doe defend And yet your comparisons be not so currant as you conceaue them For though murderers or malefactors for obstinacie or stupiditie and martyrs for constancy may despise the torments which they suffer so long as strength of desperate malice in the one or of heauenly grace in the other resisteth or endureth the paine yet when nature is subdued and conquered by paine that the soule must yeeld to death and depart then can no man expresse nor euer could any man declare what conflicts of feare and horror the soule hath with death and in death Onely Christ who on the Crosse did voluntarily and instantly breath out his soule with all quietnesse contrarie to the course of mans nature might before hand shew in himselfe if it pleased him the anguish and agonie which naturally the soule hath in her strugling with death and fainting vnder death and which God had impressed on mans nature at the time of the departure of the soule from the bodie in remembrance and resemblance of Gods displeasure against sinne when by his mightie power he seuered the soule and spirit of man asunder to giue way to death for the reuenge of the first mans disobedience in all his ofspring I speake not this as if there were none other causes that might be of Christes agonie but to shew that your comparisons which you take to be so strong are woorse then weake since the soules both of Martyrs and Malefactors haue a naturall terror and horror of death
agonie With this childish Art you haue almost waded by them not denying as indeede you cannot that they were then before Christs eyes when he feared and sorrowed in the Garden but that either they were no new things to him or else parts of his righteousnesse and holinesse Both which Answeres are very idle For your hell paines if that were part of his Passion were no more newes to his foresight then the rest and all Christs sufferings euen of your hell paines if that conceite had any truth in it were parts of his obedience and patience as well as his suffering of feare and sorrow or of bodily death Wherefore these be but straines and starts to make your Reader beleeue you haue somewhat to say when indeed your oppositions are so sleight that they bewray how gladly you would and how hardly you can distresse any of these causes which I said might concurre in Christs Agonie They all were weightie and godly respects impressing no small degrees of feare sorrow care and zeale on the Soule of Christ and directly pertinent to the worke of our redemption now in hand And where you shift them of as parts of Christs habituall holinesse alwaies resting in him know you good Sir that I speake not in this case of the permanent gifts of grace alwaies inherent in Christs Soule but of the painfull impressions which those respects did therefore now presently and sensiblie make on the Soule of Christ more then at other times because they came now to execution which before were but in cogitation by religious and humble praier he was now to settle the whole course force effects of his sufferings c Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10. Call you this greater perfection in him than in other men to pray expressely against the knowne will of his Father yea against his owne That Christ praied against the knowen will of his Father is an irreligious and dangerous dreame of yours This Toy you trump in euery where as if it were some choise Answere and yet this emptie reason maketh as much against you as against me if there were any waight in it For if Christ did suffer the paines of the damned according to your deuice was it not his Fathers knowen will he should so doe yea and his owne also How then doe the paines of hell excuse him from praying against his Fathers knowen will he was so amazed therewith you will say that he knew not what he did Christ must then be wholy depriued of all vnderstanding if he neither remembred his Fathers will nor his owne nor our saluation for whose sake he was content to suffer And how then came he so suddainly in the very next syllable to remember himselfe and his Fathers will He was now freed you will say from that astonishment How fell he then thrice into it he had so many touches of hell paines which must needs confound all the powers and parts of his body Then all the time of his apprehension examination condemnation and crucifixion he felt no such thing since the Gospels beare witnesse that he wisely religiously constantly carefully and euery way admirably behaued himselfe in eche word and deede after to the instant of his death and remembred all things that were written of him Is not here a fine mockerie which is the fortresse of all your hidden mysteries that to prooue your hell paines you must bring Christ into three such fits and pangs of confusion and obliuion that he knew not what he said or did presently with the speaking of YET to restore him againe to his perfect sense and memorie and so to free him from all your new deuised Passions besides your selues no writer old nor new did euer find in Christs prayer that he knew not what he said and the condition added before his prayer d Luke 22. Father if thou wilt take away this Cup from me and the submission following with the same breath yet not my will but thine be done doe plainely prooue that Christ had exact remembrance and regard of his fathers will besides that the Apostle affirmeth of this prayer that Christ e Heb. 5. was heard in that he feared So that if this be all the Scripture you can produce for your hell paines I protest before God and his whole Church I will sooner beleeue that you were out of your wits in writing this then that Christ was forgetfull in praying that which he spake in the Garden f Defenc. pag. 105. li. 10. Againe could this thing in any reason be such an horrible griefe vnto him to haue his flesh lie dead for a day and a few howers would the thought of this make him sweat bloud for griefe and to neede an Angell from heauen to comfort him and to pray three times vehemently this cup might passe from him verily it is vnreasonable to thinkeso Who hath bewitched you thus openly and vsually to fasten on vntrueths I alleaged six causes that might 〈◊〉 in Christes agonie you haue piked out of my wordes foure more then euer I ment to be reasons of his bloudie sweate and are nine of these now puft away with a breath and nothing left by your swelling and insulting eloquence but the deadnesse of Christs body whiles the soule wanted this it is for a man to trust to his tongue when his teeth be gone and to bleate when he cannot bite If the cause were not Gods it might be thought a pastime thus to faine and face but in so serious questions to vse such idle and false imputations and friuolous refutations is a griefe to any good mans eares and a corrosiue to his conscience Of Christes agony and the causes that might occasion his feare his sorow and his zeale in the garden I haue said so much that I am wearie with repeating though you be neuer weary with resuming the selfe same childish and erroneous mistaking The reason of my speach is plaine and euident howsoeuer you take the course rather to misreport it then refute it For if the soules of Gods saincts doe by nature vnwillingly leaue their bodies to which they are vnited though by them they are often molested and burdened otherwise death were no punishment of sinne but a signe of Gods far our which is nothing so how farre iuster cause then was there Christ should naturally dislike death not only because it was a subuersion of nature created quickned by God and an effect of Gods displeasure against sinne imposed on all men but also for that it should during the time depriue him of life sense and action with great slaunder and infamie and cheefely should exclude for a season his bodie from that blessed communion and fruition of his diuine grace and glorie which formerly it felt though the personall vnion should not be disâ—…olued now the more Christ liked and loued that adherence to God which he liuing enioied the more grieuous was the want thereof which death tooke from him for
that you name for a contradiction to this But the Scriptures are against it That were worth the hearing if you had any in store but if your ignorance be such that you bring the parts of Christs agonie for the causes thereof and your insolence such that you will pronounce what the Scriptures shall say or meane without any farder proofe you may soone make them contrarie to themselues as you doe in the maine matter and merit of our redemption by the death and bloud of 〈◊〉 That Christ in the Garden began to be afraid and said of himselfe he was on euery side sorrowfull and after comfort receaued by an Angell from heauen fell into an agonie of intentiue prayer in which his sweate was like drops of bloud this the Scriptures report What was the direct and particular cause of this feare and sorrow or for what after the vision of an Angell from heauen Christ prayed so earnestly that his sweate was like bloud this is the Question in this place Wherein like some late risen Apostle you take vpon you to decide what best sorteth with your error and proclaime that to be expresse Scripture But where doth the Scripture expresse that Christs feare sorrow and discomfort caused his Agonie If they were parts of his agonie as well as his bloudie sweate then must there be a cause as well of these as of the other and they caused not his bloudie sweate Now the cause of neither is directly mentioned in the Scriptures The Scripture Comfort by an Angell and intentiâ—…e prayer went before Christs bloudie sweate speaketh of Christs prostration and prayer of his triple Petition that the Cup might passe from him of his Disciples heauinesse and neglect to watch with him of their danger and tentation of the weaknesse of flesh as well as of his sorrow or feare Doth it therefore expresse these to be the causes of his agonie and how doth the Gospell declare discomfort to haue caused that agonie because it saith there appeared to him an Angell from heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strengthning or comforting him the Angell was not able to inspire any spirituall strength into Christ that is proper to the spirit of God neither did the Angell performe the part of an honest neighbour to perswade Christ with words to be content and patient these kinds of strengthning and comforting are not tolerable in this place but by his message from God for he was Gods messenger comming from heauen he declared in all likelihoode that Christs prayers were heard in that he feared For so much the Apostle noteth of Christs prayers in the Garden which in all coherence was the comfort the Angell brought with him when he appeared to him in the Garden Now this comfort would rather asswage his sorrow and feare then increase it Yea how could any comfort brought by the Angel cause this agonie you dreame perhaps Christ would not receaue that comfort but notwithstanding the Angels comfortable message continued his former agonie or fell into a worse then before wherein he sweate bloud If your dreames be expresse Scripture then here is all the Scripture you haue euen your presuming besides the Scripture or rather against the Scripture For since the Euangelist affirmeth t Luke 22. an Angell from heauen that is from God appeared comforting him that is with a comfortable message to him in all reason his feare and sorrow did now cease and he fell vpon this comfort receaued as I thinke not repelled as you imagine to an agonie not of feare and sorrow much lesse of hell paines but of more vehement prayer then before and in that zealous and inflamed prayer in which he powred forth not onely the strength of his Soule but the very spirits of his body for desire to preuaile for man against sinne and satan his sweate was like bloud u Defenc. pag. 107. li 1. The words next before in the text are u Luk. 22. 43. 44. AN ANGEL CAME TO GIVE HIM SOME COMFORT that is lest he should be ouerwhelmed quite in his sorow discomfort but still he was in his agonic and sweat like drops of bloud trickling downe to the ground and presently sayth MY SOVLE IS FVLL OF SORROVVLS EVEN VNTO THE DEATH â— The Tempter in the wildernesse that sought by pretence of Gods power and protection to procure Christes ouerthrow had more regard not to be taken tardy with corrupting the Scriptures than you haue in this place for he cited the words as they lay without addition or interposition of his owne which you do not buttaking some parts of the text for a shew you most vntruly and most pestilently corrupt both the text and the trueth of the Gospell You cite out of S. Luke ca. 22. vers 43 44 these words in a different letter as the words in the text next before Christes bloudie sweat An Angell came to giue him some comfort c. Are these the Euangelists words Was your haste so great or your care so little that you could not or would not so much as looke in your booke for the right words of the text S. Luke sayeth x Luk. 22. v. 43 There appeared vnto him an Angell from heauen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 strengthening him or comforting him no doubt with a message from God which what it was we do not know except we applie the Apostles words to this purpose where he sayth Christ y Heb 5. v. 7. in the dayes of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 did offer vp prayers and supplications with strong crying and teares to him that was able to saue him from death AND WAS HEARD IN THAT WHICH HE FEARED This if we take to be the comfort which the Angell brought from heauen the Apostle might well intend it For that Christes prayers were heard and so much declared to him by an Angell from heauen could not be but very comfortable to him If we list not to beleeue this was the Angels message of comfort then we must confesse that the comfort which the Angell brought is vnknowen to man as the certaine cause of Christes bloudie sweat But whatsoeuer we suppose of the Angels message there is some difference betwixt S. Lukes words and those which you cite as the words next before the text not in matter you will say I speake of the words which you may not alter when you professe to cite the text whatsoeuer the matter be You keepe the meaning of the Euangelist you thinke Such a meaning as you your selfe make of the Euangelist for you translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is strengthening him to giue him some comfort Where by the diminutiue some you would implie that it was not sufficient to remooue his feare and that intent you betray in the next line citing againe your owne words in stead of S. Lukes and apparently corrupting his text for comming to cite the 44 verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and falling into an agonie he prayd more earnestly or intentiuely in stead
patience whereby we might be assured that he felt his afflictions on the Crosse with quicker sense and greater paines then we are able with any patience to endure And is this all that now you would say that Christ found no ioy in his paines what Cow-keeper doth not know that paine is paine and not ioy but was Christes paine such that it excluded his soule from the remembrance or sense of all Gods graces so richly powred on him and promises so faithfully made vnto him you were best come in with your mooueable fittes of astonishment and tell vs that in one and the same sentence when Christ said My God my God he was in full and perfect assurance and assistance of Gods fauour whom els he could not call his God if he felt no comfort in him that is the God of all comfort and when he pronounced the next syllable why he presently fell into a sudden pangue where he was forsaken and left all comfortlesse and alone according to your deuices And if any man be so wise to let you lead him through such thornes as to graunt in Christ on the Crosse sometimes hope of glorie and sometimes feare of confusion sometimes comfort and suddainly distrust of his saluation sometimes Gods fauour and full assistance as in affliction and by and by the second death and the paines of the damned he may dally with faith and infidelity with heauen and hell with Christ and Beliall as you doe But if it were not possible for Christ crucified being the wisdome and power of God to be tossed and tumbled with such contrarie blasts then hath the forsaking which he complained of an other manner of sense then you imagine And whatsoeuer meaning you ascribe vnto it you may not with a word that admitteth diuers interpretations impugne the plaine and open wordes and deeds of our Sauiour in which is no question As when the high Priest asked him e Mar. 14. art thou Christ the sonne of the blessed Iesus said I am and ye shall see the sonne of man sit at the right hand of power and come in the cloudes of heauen And when the Theefe that was crucified with him said vnto him f Luc. 22. Lord remember me when thou comest into thy kingdome he answeared Verily I say vnto thee to day shalt thou be with me in Paradise As also breathing out his soule he said g Ibidem Father into thine hands I commend my spirit If to be the sonne of God and to sit at Gods right hand in glory if to dispose of Paradise at his pleasure and to commit his spirit into his Fathers hands be no signes nor proofes of comfort and ioy then let your exposition beare some shew but if these be more then arguments of most excellent honour and glory not onely reserued for him and confirmed vnto him but assumed and professed by him euen when he was condemned and crucified who that had any care of trueth or respect to reason would auouche that Christs h Defenc. pag. 108. li 9. godhead gaue him for that season of his passion no sense nor feeling of comfort and ioy neither in spirit soule nor body i Defenc. pag. 108. li. 16. This was that extreame humiliation and exinâ—…nition of nature wherein God spared not his sonne and wherein Christ spared not himselfe If you may sit iudge not only ouer Prophets and Apostles but ouer Christ himselfe you will soone appoint him to suffer what pleaseth you but when you come to make proofe thereof you betray the violence of your spirits that must haue all thinges giue way to your wills and the weakenesse of your iudgements that discerne not humility from infidelity nor religious patience from hellish astonishment k Philip. 2. Exinanition and humiliation the Apostle nameth in Christ but either voluntary and either in comparison of his diuine glory and maiesty wherein being equall with his father he tooke on him the forme of a seruant and Christ emptied himselfe of glory not of gracâ—… humbled himselfe becomming obedient to the death of the crosse The Apostle neither saith nor meaneth that Christ emptied himselfe of all grace or comfort in his whole humane nature but laid aside the vse and shew of his diuine power and honour whiles for loue to vs he performed the worke of our redemption in the shape of a seruant and became obedient vnto the death of the crosse which was painefull and shamefull but not astonished with the paines of the damned nor subiected to the second death This is your yarne which you would faine weaue into the Apostles words but truth and falshood haue no fellowship no more haue your dreames and the Apostles doctrine As much it maketh for you that God spared not his owne sonne but gaue him for vs all whence you may as well conclude that God adiudged his sonne to euerlasting destruction and damnation for that were indeed not to spare him as that he inflicted on him the true paines of hell least he should seeme to spare him The Apostles wordes expound themselues God spared not his sonne but gaue him for vs This giuing him into the hands of sinners for our sakes was Gods not sparing him otherwise that God spared him in nothing which either his power was able to impose or our sinnes did deserue this is doctrine for him that meaneth to be an Apostata from all faith and trueth to set the father at as great enmity with his sonne as our sinnes did deserue or could prouoke The higth of Christs not sparing himselfe was as the Apostle teacheth his obedience vnto the death of the Crosse if you will haue Christs obedience stretch to the second death of the damned you must get you some new Scriptures these that are already written witnesse no such thing How beâ—…t you will lacke no Scripture For rather then you will acknowledge your want in that behalfe you will make euery Chapter throughout the Bible to speake of your dreames For euen * 〈◊〉 pag. 〈◊〉 heere you quote Deutero 10 17 and Luc 16 17 in the first of which places the Scripture saith l Deut. 10. 17. The Lord your God is God of Gods and Lord of Lords a great God mightie and terrible which accepteth no persons nor taketh rewards What is this to Christes sufferings or to the paines of the damned was it after noone or after midnight when you quoted these places you knew not why nor wherefore So play you with Luc 16 17. where it is said m Luc. 16. 17. It is more easie that heauen and earth should passe away then that one tittle of the Law should fall Will you hence inferre which is the thing that you should prooue ergo Christ was forsaken of all outward and inward comfort and ioy besides you no man hath the grace to make such faire and cleare demonstrations of your doctrine n Defenc pag. 108. li. 21. This forsaking or
not proue them to be either irreligious or vtterly comfortlesse since b Heb. 12. for the ioy that was set before him he endured the crosse and despised the shame and c Reuel 3. ouercomming sitteth with his Father in his throne By which confession of our Sauiours we must learne that he vsed no power to repell or rebate his paines but that he had as sensible and tender feeling of all his sufferings in the weaknesse of his flesh which he with obedience and patience subiected to that burden as any man could haue and rather more in that he willingly layd aside his strength whiles he suffered for sinne d Defenc. pag. 115. li. 21. You do very ill to make these parts of Christs holinesse proper parts of his satisfaction and the maine causes of his agonie and complaint And woorse you doe if you ascribe them not to any paines in him at all And what doe you to acknowledge no cause in Christ of his complaint or agonie neither religious nor naturall but only the paines of hell and to seuer the inward sacrifice of an afflicted spirit from the outward sacrifice of his bodie for the purgation of our sinnes since he wanted in no point that was required or accepted of God but yeelded that to him which was due from vs in farre more excellent and perfect maner than we can comprehend It is therefore voluntary blindnesse and deafenesse in you to shut eyes and eares at all sorts of religious sorowes and feares when you reade that Christ feared and sorowed in the Garden and so to pitch on the paines of the damned which haue no witnesse in holy writ that nothing can remoue you or content you but your owne conceit e Defenc. pag. 115. li. 25. Secondly the summe of these fore-noted texts must be considered namely that Christ expresly wished sundry times in his dreadfull astonishment suddenly euen against Gods knowen will in one respect and here are expressed with his strange astonishment his mightie sorowes and feare of them partly felt and partly further to come After a large promise of cleere proofs and expresse Scriptures for so great and weighty matters as these are you trole out your owne false and absurd conceits no way gathered from the Scriptures but violently vrged on them with more rage than reason and now so often refuted that a man would be wearic if not ashamed to spend so much time in these idle repetitions of the selfe-same misapprehensions and misconstructions of some words of the Euangelist The summe of all these fore-noted texts is that the Euangelists say Christ professed his soule was heauie vnto death that the Apostle addeth he was heard in that he feared that himselfe on the crosse sayd My God my God why hast thou forsaken me All these places are already handled and cleered and no paines of the damned or of the second death found any thing neere to any of these words What meaneth then this importunitie to obtrude them againe as fresh and new proofes without any farder paines bestowed on them then barâ—…ly the repâ—…ating of only two poisened rootes you haue added to them out of your owne store the one is the dreadfull and strange astonishment during all the time of Christs praier in the Garden the other is the sundry suddaine wishes of Christ in that astonishment euen against Gods knowen will which things as your maner is you proue by your owne authority painting them out with dreadfull strange and mighty words when your proofes be weake and childish That Christ praied suddainly and sundry times against the knowen will of God is a false and wicked position and as directly repugnant to the Scriptures as any thing may be Saint Luke saith his praier was f Luc. 22. v. 42 Father if thou wilt take away this cup from me And the Apostle saith he was heard in that he feared So that not only you auouch this thing against expresse Scripture but you bring the sonne of God within the compasse of vnaduised and faithlesse praiers which you excuse with as false and lewd a deuice because he was past sense and memory what he did whereas he well remembred mentioned and reserued his fathers will in his praiers and warned his Apostles to g Matth. 26. watch and pray that they entred not into temptation and constantly continued his praiers till he was h Luc. 22. comforted by an Angell from heauen and i Heb. 5. heard in that he â—…eared As for his astonishment neither doe the words vsed by the Euangelist Saint Mark import any such strange and dreadsull want of sense and memory as you imagine neither doe the consequents declare any such continuance as you pretend but in both these you prescribe your owne will ro be the rule of your faith First the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth either admiration alone or â—…ls a mixtion thereof with some feare vpon any suddaine or strange sight When the Creeple that lay at the beautyfull gate of the temple asking almes was healed by Peter and Iohn the people seeing him walking and leaping and praising God were filled with admiration and astonishment and flocked to Salomons porch 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 euèn amazed This affection in them Peter expresseth in the next verse after this sort k Acts 3. v. 12. Ye men of Israell saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 why wonder you at this 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or why looke you so steadfastly on vs so that stedfast beholding and inward admiring are the force of this word in that place When Christ returned from the mountaine where he was transfigured to his nine Disciples that were disputing with the Scribes l Mar. 9. v. 15. All the people as soone as they saw him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were amazed and came to him and saluted him In neither of these places can we imagine the people were stroken with such great feare that should take their senses from them and in this last it is expressely written they ranne and saluted him which argueth that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 importeth a sudden admiration sometimes without feare and sometimes permixed with feare for the sight of some strange or vnknowen thing So the people when they saw him cast out vncleane spirits with his word m Mar. 1. v. 27. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were all amazed and asked one of another What thing is this What new doctrine is this And the women that went earely to Christes sepulchre and n Mar. 16. v. 5. saw a yong man sitting clothed in a long white robe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they were afrayd and he sayd to them o 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Be not afraid In none of which places the word signifieth any hellish paine or confusion but either admiration or such sudden feare ioyned with some wondering as a strange or vnknowen sight breedeth though we feare no hurt towards our selues And of these very
indeed reueale some reall tast of his heauenly ioies to his children euen in this life I haue already shewed but am not answeared You slide from some blessed men to all the children of God to whom you affirme God doth reueale indeed some reall tast of his heauenly ioies euen in this life What you meane by a reall tast we must learne from your owne mouth by such doubtfull phrases which you may after wrangle about you vse to deliuer your doctrine If you meane ioy in the holy Ghost whiles by hope we expect the promises of God at his determined time that indeed is common to all the children of God in their measure but that teacheth a maine difference betwixt the things heere enioined and reserued for vs in heauen and quite crosseth the new heauen which you would establish For we learne by the Scriptures that our z Coloss. 3. Life is hid in Christ and when Christ who is our life shall appeare then shall we also appeare with him in glory a 1 Iohn 3. Now we are the sonnes of God but yet it doth not appeare what we shal be and we know that when he shall appeare we shal be like him for we shall see him as he is Our knowledge loue and ioy of God and in God beginne heere by the preaching of the Gospell and the working of his spirit but the Scripture neuer calleth those the ioies of ueauen though they shall there continue yet so augmented and accompanied with heauenly brightnesse and glory that they shall not be the same they were For as our naturall vnderstanding and sense and corporall life and flesh shall not be abolished in heauen but abide and be glorified and yet no man is so senselesse as to thinke or say the glory of our creation is the glory of our resurrection so our knowledge loue and ioy which heere are weake and wanting all perfection as being mixed with ignorance and error lust and vnlawfull desires feare and griefe and often obscured and almost ouerwhelmed with infirmity iniquity and misery no wise man will defend to be the ioies of Gods heauenly kingdome where is no want nor defect of any good nor feare nor doubt of any euill inward or outward but as God shall then be all in all so shall we be filled with the sight and fruition of God our loue and ioy increasing according to our knowledge which then shal be the manifest vision of God face to face who is the vnceasing and vnsearchable fountaine of all goodnesse and blessednesse The b Treatis pa. 80 proofe on which you stand as yet not answered is a place of the Apostle to the Corinths applied by many men to the preaching of the Gospel then it maketh nothing for your purpose but if it be referred to the ioyes of heauen as you would haue it it maketh quite against you For c 1. Cor. 2. eye hath not seene saith the Apostle neither eare hath heard neither hath mans heart conceaued the things which God hath prepared for them that loue him If those be the ioyes of heauen which the Apostle there meaneth then is it euident that men are not capable of them whiles they are compassed with sinne and infirmitie but God hath reserued them in the heauens for vs when we shall come to his presence though in the meane time d 1. 2. he hath reuealed to vs by his spirit that such things are kept in store for vs which then shall appeare that is be apparently and perfectly bestowed on vs and we euerlastingly inuested with them The Reuelation which the Apostle here speaketh of is the reuelation of knowledge whereby these things are promised and assured vnto vs not the reuelation of glory whereby we shall see that which we now hope for and enioy that which we now expect This doctrine howsoeuer you would delude it with your reall tasts is plainely deliuered in the Scriptures When Moses besought God to shew him his glory God answered e Exod. 33. ver 20. Thou CANST NOT SEE my face and liue for there shall no man see mee and liue Where God doth not meane that men shall not see him in heauen when they come to be f Matth. 22. as the Angels of God who g Mat. 18. v. 10. alwayes behold the face of God in heauen his owne sonne hath sayd h Matt 5. blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God and his Apostle likewise i 2. Cor. 13. Now we see through a glasse darkely then shall we see face to face But he meaneth that no man liuing in this mortall flesh can see his face Otherwise it is the cleere resolution of the Scriptures that we k 1. Iohn 3. shall see him as he is that is not by faith as now we doe nor by some created shew of his glory as Moses Elias Esai and other the Prophets and Patriarkes did see him for the confirmation of their callings or consolation of their miseries but as the Apostle speaketh face to face Vpon these words of S. Iohn we shall see him as he is S. Austen learnedly and truely sayth l August in 〈◊〉 Iohan. Tract 101. Ista visio non est huius vitae sed futurae non temporalis sed aeterna Hunc totius laboris sui fructum Ecclesia nunc parturit desiderando tunc paritura cernendo This vision of God as he is is not in this life but in the life to come not temporall but eternall This fruite of her whole labour the Church now trauelleth with by desiring it but then shall attaine by beholding it Now if the sight of God himselfe face to face that is of his substance and glory in plaine full and perfect manner and measure be the same with the darke and enigmaticall beholding his graces and promises by the glasse of faith then haue you some reason to say the ioyes of heauen may be had in this life but if in the manner measure obiects and effects of our sight of God in this life and the next there be so great difference then you deceiue both your selfe and your Reader to affirme we haue the ioyes of heauen heere in this life when not onely our sinne our ignorance our miserie mutabilitie and mortalitie but euen our faith and hope do clearely prooue that we haue not that which we desire nor as yet enioy that which we expect and beleeue wee shall haue m August epist. 112. Non corda munda suae substantiae contemplatione fraudauit cum haec magna summa merces Deum colentibus diligentibus promittatur dicente ipso Domino quando corporalibus oculis visibiliter apparebat inuisibilem se contuenaū mundis cordibus promittebat qui diligit me diligitur a Patre meo ego diligam eum ostendā meipsum illi God hath not defrauded cleane harts of the sight of his substance since that is promised to those which serue
man compassed with sinne is able to see He saw posteriora Dei the backe parts of God for so God sayd vnto him y Exo. 33. v. 22 I will couer thee with mine hand whiles I passe by z 23. After I will take away mine hand and thou shalt see mine hinder parts but my face shalt thou not see Whereupon S. Austen sayth very aduisedly a August de Symbolo aâ—… Catethâ—…menos li 〈◊〉 ca. 3. Ipsa sunt illa posteriora Dei Christus Dei Those hinder parts of God were the Christ of God Which exposition Christ confirmeth when he sayth b Iohn 8. Your Father Abraham reioyced to see my day and he saw it and was glad Other shewes of Gods glorie some others had as Elias in the Caue the People in the Wildernesse Salomon in his Temple and Iohn Baptist in Iordan when he saw the Holy Ghost descend like a Doue and abide on Christ but none of those was the sight of Gods face which no mortall man can see and liue And that is the true and essentiall ioy of heauâ—…n to which all other degrees of perfection and happinesse are consequent c August dâ—… ciuitate Dei li. 16. â—…a 9. Videns Deum quod erit in sine praemium omnium sanctorum The sight of God sayth Austen shall in the end be the reward of all his saints Which doctrine he learned from S. Paul and S. Iohn the Apostles of Christ and they from their Master d 1. Cor. 13. Then we shall see him face to face and then shall I know sayth S. Paul euen as I am knowen When Christ shall appeare sayth S. Iohn e 1. Iohn 3. we shall be like to him for we shall see him as he is And so our Sauiour f Iohn 14. I will loue him that loueth me and shew mine owne selfe vnto him g Defenâ—… 〈◊〉 120. li. 15. Secondly it is true the Apostle sayth that here we walke by faith and liue by hope yet some rare exceptions do not ouerthrow this generall course The Scriptures are true with you saue where you list to make exceptions of your doctrine as not conteined in them nor agreeing with them No man in this life Christ Iesus only excepted had euer any such vision of God or possession and fruition of his heauenly kingdome that he did not walke by faith and liue by hope Paul was h 2. Cor. 12. taken vp into the third heauen and heard words not lawfull or not possible for man to vtter Did he then cease to walke by faith who after and alwayes prosessed of himselfe i 1 Cor. 13. Now I know in part but then I shall know as I am knowen And including himselfe with the rest k 2. Coâ—… 5. We walke by faith not by sight And â—…xactly speaking of himselfe l Galat. â—… That I now liue in the flâ—…sh I liue by the fâ—…ith of the Sonne of God m Phil. 3. that I may know him and the vertue of his resurrection and fellowship of his afflictions not as though I had alreadie attained to it but I endeuour my selfe to that which is before and follow hard towards the marke for the price of the high calling of God in Iesus Christ. If you dare defend that Paul in Paradise did see God face to face then may you say that at that time he walked not by faith but by sight but if that be a plaine errour then Paul as yet attained not the sight of Gods face nor the crowne of righteousnesse layed vp for him which should be giuen him by the iust Iudge at that day and consequently neither faith nor hope ceased in Paul notwithstanding his being in the third heauen The like I say of S. Iohn who n Reuâ—…l 4. saw a dore open in heauen and was willed to come vp thither and of all the Saints that either talked with God or had any manifest reuelation of his glory whiles here they liued The transfiguring of Christ in the mount was to him not only a ioyfull hope but a reall taste of his very heaueâ—…ly ioyes That transfiguration of Christ whether it were for himselfe or for the confirmation of his Disciples the Scriptures doe not precisely determine When a voice came from heauen to Christ in the audience of all the people Christ answered This voice came not because of me but for your sakes S. Peter who was one of those Disciples that saw him transfigured writeth thus of it o 2. Pet. 1. We followed not deceiuable fables but with our eyes we saw his Maiestie for he receiued of God the Father honour and glory when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory This is my beloued Sonne in whom I am well pleased This voice which was greater glory than his transfiguration came in respect of them to confirme them in their faith and obedience to the Sonne of God then incarnate and yet to assure their eyes by sight as well as their â—…ares by that voice he was transfigured before them but this transfiguration did not frâ—…e Christ from feare sorrow shame violence and death which followed and therefore this was not heauen to him nor all the glory prepared for him but an outward shew thereof to establish rather his Disciples then himselfe For his soule within him had here on earth greater glorie continually then a transitorie change of his body as namely the personall vnion with God which no creature man nor Angell in earth or heauen had or hath besides him the fulnesse of Gods spirit resting on him by which he knew all the counsell and will of God and all the secrets of mens hearts power ouer all flesh and command ouer all creatures which neither Saint nor Angell in heauen hath In the glory of his body Moses and Steuen did here on earth in part communicate with him P 2. Cor. 3. Moses face did shine when he knew it not The children of Israel could not behold the face of Moses for the glorie of his countenance which so glittered that the children of Israel were afrayd to come neere him he forced to put a vaile vpon his face when they spake with him and yet Moses q Exod. 34. ver 29. wist not that the skin of his face shone bright And likewise r Acts 6. all that sate in the councell where Steuen was conuented condemned looking stedfastly on him saw his face as the face of an Angell that is bright and glorious though Steuen knew it not no more than Moses for ought that the Scripture noteth of him saue that in the end Steuen s Acts 7. looking stedfastly into heauen saw the glory of God and Iesus standing at the right hand of God But the inward and continuall glorie of Christes soule heere on earth was proper to him no man nor angell matching him therein How come you then to attribute heauen vnto Christ for the
lachrymas modo oculis sed sanguinis guttas è corpore exprimit seria deuota oratio vt in trepidatione Christi est cernere Serious deuote praier doth not onely draw teares from the eyes but a bloudie sweate from the bodie as we see in Christes Agonie And surely the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrewes must either not collect this from the Scripture but report it besides the Scripture which is somewhat dangerous os else by the sweate of Christes face trickling downe to the ground he collected that in that in entiue and vehement prayer teares ran downe as fast as sweate and ioyntly with sweate and other sound gathering it from the Scriptures there is none And this collection if you graunt that the Apostle from the vehemencie of Christs prayer obserued the cause of the one to be the cause of the other since it was not possible the face should runne with sweate through the feruencie of prayer and not the eyes with teares then graunt you that it may soundly be gathered from the Scriptures that zeale of prayer and not heate of paine was the cause of Christs bloudy sweate z Defenc. pag. 132. li. 34. The Apostle in all reason may be vnderstoode to haue respect to all the woefull times and cries of our Sauiour as on the crosse and in the 12. of Iohn There is no reason to extend the Apostles wordes to Christs praier in the 12. of Iohn for there the Scripture doth not mention either strong cries or teares which are the Apostles words On the crosse he vsed a loud voice but teares he shed none neither was the sense of his prayer there to be freed from death but rather to hasten his death to which he had now wholy submitted himself according to his Fathers will And therefore your stretching the Apostles wordes to all those times to make Christs agonie if you could tell how to continue on the crosse wanteth all reason His paine most increased on the crosse and his sorow rising thence could not decrease but neither his astonishment nor that which the Scripture calleth his agonie accompanied with his bloodie sweate continued on the crosse You thinke it vnreasonable to say that Christ on the crosse had persistance in ioy and beheld God alwayes fauourable and faithfull vnto him a Defenc. pag. 132. li. 38. without intermission or obscuration though his flesh in which sinne was condemned and his body where he bare our sinnes were subiected to most shamefull and cruell torments fâ—…om the hands of the wicked what vncoherence is there in those wordes or what disagreement from the Scriptures I saw the Lord alwayes before me said Dauid concerning Christ. For he is at my right hand that I should not be moued If this beholding of God were b Sermon pâ—… 116 li. 25. alwayes then was there no intermission if before his face then was there no obscuration These are my words which why you should dislike or how you can refute I doe not see You can touch nothing which you one way or other turne not out of his right course Firmenesse of faith and assurance of hope I giue vnto Christ on the Crosâ—…e and either of those bring with them inward ioy of mind how much soeuer our outward state be troubled or our flesh afflicted Neither are these such contraries as cannot stand together since they are both in diuers parts and for diuers respects S. Peter saith c 1. Peter 1. we reioyce in the faith of saluation though for a season wee are in heauinesse through manifold temptations S. Iames saith my d Iames 1. brethren count it an exceeding ioy when ye fall into diuers tentations S. Paul saith e Rom. 5. we reioyce vnder the hope of the glory of God neither so onely but also we reioyce in tribulation knowing that tribulation bringeth foorth pâ—…tience experience and hope which maketh not ashamed Then as it is no absurditie that the spirit should be readie and the flesh weake nor that the inward man should be renewed when the outward man perâ—…sheth no more is it any repugnancie that Christ should haue ioy in the holy Ghost and in hope when he found and felt exceeding affliction in his flesh and as the Apostle teacheth f Hebr. 12. for the ioy set before him endured the crosse and despised the shame thereof If then there be ioy in hope how could Christ want ioy if he wanted not hope and hope if you take from him you leaue him in despaire which is the losse of hope which whether you will adde to the rest of your vnsound faith I leaue it to your choice Notwithstanding your selfe in this very booke allow to Christ on the crosse and in his agonie by reason of the very same wordes which I cite page 116. not onely g Defenc. pag. 110. li. 28. 34. constant and continuall ioy in God but exceeding and generall ioy with which whether your hell and perpetuall extreme agonie as well on the Crosse as in the Garden may stand I referre it to the sober and wise Reader h Defenc. pag. 133. li. 3. 1. How vaine is this consequent how false are these sayings and contrarie to the Scripture in the circumstances that his astonishment must continue eighteene houres from his entering into the garden to the ending of his life the next day at three of the clocke afternoone Indeed it is most absurd and openly repugnant to the Scriptures and to all the circumstances thereof to defend that Christs agonie which you say was the cause of his astonishment or his astonishment which was the effect thereof continued on the Crosse and yet such is your error that you make Christs spirituall paines on the crosse to be greater then in the Garden and his astonishment to be lesse because you doe not find that on the crosse where his paine was present and most sharpe he prayed ought against the knowen will of God as you auouch he did in the Garden Your supposing and presuming without all warrant of holie Scripture that God with his immediate hand inflicted the paines of the damned on the soule of Christ i Defenc. pag. 133. li. 9. 10. sometimes more sometimes lesse and sometimes more suddainly then at other times and sometimes staying it and this variablenesse of Gods hand to be the true cause of Christs astonishment is a saucie senselesse and shifting imagination aggrauating easing and iterating Gods hand at your pleasure and yet such is the folly and fâ—…lshood of your doctrine that without this desperate deuice euery child would crie shame on you For where on the Crosse by your owne confession Christes meere spirituall paines most increased euen there his astonishment was none at all and though you teach it not possible for Christ not to sinke and k Treat pag. 54. li. 28. not to be confounded vnder the burden yet when he l Ibid. pag. 63. li. 15. came to
So that all your platforme is quite ouerthrowen by the direct words of the Apostle freeing Christ and all his elect euen in this life from all power of the second death And therefore you set your selfe in this section euidently to confront the holy Ghost when you seeke to proue that Christ suffered the second death of the soule as the Scripture speaketh And besides the Scriptures if you talke of second deaths you may as well tell vs tales of a new world as of an other word without the witnesse of Gods spirit But you haue found out many places of Scripture where this last kinde of death is so called and named Eight you quote by the side in your margine but take not the paines to discusse one of them onely you pronounce after your stately manner that those places of Scripture prooue that which you meane to bee the death of the soule Now what if not one of them speake any such thing is not your Reader sure to find you a true man of your word when you quote eight places and not one of them to your purpose but this is your perpetuall course to mistake and misuse Scriptures at your pleasure and then to say you haue soundly prooued it On the contrary I affirme that none of these places intend any such thing as you imagine of your terrestiall and temporall hell but they exactly conclude against you that damnation is eternall and no death of the soule which is not euerlasting is expressed or intended in any of those Scriptures or in any other that you or your friends are able to picke out And though it may suffice me as well to say nay as you to say yea yet for the Readers better resolution I will not bee grieued to run through all these places as much as shal be needfull The first is l Ezech. 18. ver 4. the soule that â—…inneth it shall die These words may signifie either subtraction of grace in this life which is consequent to sinne in the wicked or exclusion Eight places of Scripture abused for the temporall death of Christs soulâ—… from glory in the next world which is the iust and full wages of sinne But that euery soule which sinneth hath felt or shall feele in this life your temporall hell or the pains of the damned this is a grosse error to be fathered on those words and repugnant not onely to the trueth of this text but euen to the sense and experience of all the Godly and such as your selfe dare not auouch since you qualifie your conceit in that behalfe with these words that m Defenc. pag. 134. li. 15. some in some measure are conformed with Christ in these his sufferings But if God by Ezechiel ment your earthly hell then absolutely all men children not excepted must feele in this life paines equall with the damned for so much as they haue sinned and deserued euerlasting damnation The second is the commination that God made to Adam n Genes 2. ver 17. Whensoeuer thou â—…atest thereof thou shalt die the death or surely thou shalt die Here are all sorts of deaths threatned but not to be executed either on all men nor in this present life God reseruing to himselfe power and libertie to dispose of all mens soules according to his determinate counsell though they should all be guiltie and liable to all kinds of death by vertue of those words vpon the transgression of the first man This exposition the Apostle giueth when he saith o Rom. 5. The offence of one came on all men to condemnation which is the verifying of these words that all men died in Adam to wit were subiect to death not onely by dying the death of the bodie which is appointed for all men but to the guiltinesse of euerlasting death not executed on all though deserued by all The third which is the p Rom. 6. Apostles conclusion is either generally ment of all kinds of death which came in by sinne as the rewards and punishments thereof and then it is nothing to your intention or else it expresseth the full wages of sinne to be euerlasting death by opposition to eternall life mentioned in the next wordes following For eternall life is the gift of God as eternall death is the wages that is bothe the desert and repayment of sinne Take which you will either the generall or speciall construction of death it is no way pertinent to your purpose Lesse is the fourth that the Apostles were the q 2. Cor. 2. vers 16. sauour of death vnto death in them that perished as they were the sauour of life vnto life in them that were saued For the preaching of the Gospell which the Apostle meaneth in that place doeth not proclaime a terrestiall or temporall heauen to them that beleeue in Christ but life eternall and consequently neither doth it denounce a temporall death to them which refuse Christ but euerlasting death And therefore there can be nothing more absurd then to conuert these places to the proofe of your temporall hell for so you should doe the reprobate a very good turne if you could shew that the death threatned them for not beleeuing in Christ were to dure but for a time or in this life only where your new found hell hath power and place and no where else With like successe you note for your fifth that the r 2 Cor. 3. vers 7. ministration of death was glorious the Apostle so calling the law because it denounced death not temporall but eternall to all transgessours So that if the full wages of sinne be eternall death by the word of God then did the law not denounce a temporall death due to all men by course of nature be they good or bad though euen that at first entered as a part of the punishment of sinne but euerlasting death which is the second death is reserued as S. Iohn writeth for all sorts of sinners and liers Saint Iames is the sixth who sayth s Iames 5. He that conuerteth a sinner erring from the trueth shall saue a soule from death If a man conuerted shall be saued from your temporall hell which you here would intend by the death of the soule then much more the Conuerter and he that neuer erred from the trueth shall be free from your hell and consequently Christ was most free who was trueth it selfe and neuer erred But as trueth is the way to euerlasting life and freeth men from all bondage of sinne and Satan so errour and infidelitie haue another maner of death than your terrestiall hell which you make common to Christ and some of his members and he that is conuerted from errour or sinne shall be saued from euerlasting perdition which indeed is the death of the soule depriuing it of all blisse and ioy for euer The seuenth and eigth you take out of Saint Iohn who sayth t 1. Ioh. 5. vers 16 17. There is sinne vnto
death for which we must not pray But whosoeuer is borne of God sinneth not that sinne and so neither Christ who was the true Sonne of God nor any of his chosen who are the children of God by adoption can sinne that sinne nor die that death because he that is begotten of God liueth by God who is eternall life to all that know him and cleaue vnto him without separation If then the sinnes of the Elect be not vnto death but such as we in pietie may and in charitie must pray for consequently the death of the soule here meant by Saint Iohn is such as is not incident to any of the sonnes of God and so not the temporall hell which you communicate to Christ and his members Heere are your eight places of Scriptures proouing as you pretend the second death of the soule which you ascribe to Christ in euery one of which saue the first and second there can be no question but euerlasting damnation is intended and in those two the guiltinesse of eternall death which is due to sinne may be comprised in the name of death which the Apostle iustifieth when he sayth t Rom. 5. v. 12. The offence of one came on all men vnto condemnation which is in effect that he sayd before Death went ouer all men forasmuch as all men haue sinned But that any of these intend your temporall hell brought into this life not by snares and feares working on the soules of men but by substance and essence and not eternall death in hell fire with the Diuell and his Angels you nor all your adherents shall euer be able by any ground of holy Scripture to make it appeare And therefore your presuming it vpon the bare shew of places concluding no such thing is a pestilent intrusion vpon the word of God whiles you sticke not to couple your conceits which are false and erroneous with his vndoubted and vndefiled trueth x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 31. First ordinarily and commonly it belongeth only to the damned wherewithall are the ordinarie accidents and concomitants desperation induration vtter darknesse c. with perpetuitie of punishment and that locally in HELL Generally and truely the Scriptures neuer vse the name of the second death but for the lake burning with euerlasting fire into which the Diuell and all the Reprobate shall be cast and whatsoeuer you otherwise pretend is your owne absurd deuice without the Scriptures and against the Scriptures to keepe your doctrine from open derision and detestation And since your selfe acknowledge that this is the ordinarie and vsuall doctrine of the Scriptures it shal be needfull for your Reader to hold you to that till you fully proue your extraordinarie deuice by the same Scriptures by which the other is euidenly confirmed and so much openly confessed by you y Defenc. pag. 135. li. 36. In this sense the Fathers generally do take it where they denie that Christ suffered the death of the soule and so do we If your cause haue so little holde in the Scriptures it hath lesse in the Fathers who in the necessarie worke of our redemption thought it sacriledge to say any thing that was not apparently proued by the Scriptures And as you light not on a true word when you come to deliuer vs the mysteries of your new hell so this is patently false that the Fathers generally take the death of the soule for eternall damnation only when they denie that Christ died the death of the soule They speake as the Scriptures leade them and confessing two deaths of the soule as the Scriptures doe which are sinne excluding all grace and the wages of sinne euen euerlasting damnation they generally denie that Christ died any death of the soule and haue for confirmation of their doctrine therein the whole course of the sacred Scriptures concurring with them x Defenc. pag. 135. li. 37. Secondly the death of the soule or the second death may be extraordinarily and singularly considered namely to imply no more but simply the very nature and essence of it You broach two apparent and euident vntrueths which you make the whole foundation of your presumptuous errour First that either Christ or his Elect in this life did or do suffer the very nature and essence of the second death Next that the Scriptures do singularly and extraordinarily reserue that kinde of second death for Christ and his members Shew either of these by the word of God before you make them grounds of your doctrine or els any meane Reader may soone conceiue you meane to teach no trueth confirmed in the Scriptures but a bolde and false deuice of your owne which you would extraordinarily intrude vpon the word of God a Defenc. pag. 136. li. 5. This is a death to the soule as before we haue shewed according to this sense the Scriptures and Fathers before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to denie it in Christ. When you glaunced before at the death of Christes soule you prayed vs to haue patience When the Defender shouâ—…d proue the death of Christs soule he sayeth bee hâ—…th proued it already till you came to the place where we should receiue a reasonable satisfaction and now you are come to the place where you should make iust and full proofe thereof you send vs backe againe and say you haue shewed it before What meaneth this doubling and deceiuing of your Reader but that you would seeme to haue many proofs when indeed you haue none and therefore you post vs to and fro to seeke for that we shall neuer finde In the 113. Page of this Defence you went about by your miserable misconstruing of certaine wordes vsed by some of the Fathers to enforce a shew of a death on the soule of Christ but against the haire as there I haue proued and therefore stand not on your former vnfortunate aduentures but either heere make proofe by the Scriptures that Christ died the death of the soule or leaue prating and publishing it so confidently as you and your adherents do for the chiefe part of mans redemption The Scriptures and Fathers you say before noted may rightly be vnderstood not to denie it in Christ. Is this all you haue to say for the death of Christes soule that the Scriptures and Fathers may be vnderstood not to denie it The Scriptures must affirme it before you can make it any point of Christian religion or part of our reconciliation to God b Rom. 10. Faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God and not by not denying If that be your course to put any thing to the Creed which you list to say the Scriptures doe not denie you may quickly haue a large Creed containing all things which the Scriptures abused with your figures and wrested to your fansies shall not in expresse words as you thinke denie c Defenc. pag. 136. li. 9. Moreouer let it be obserued that if we had no proofes at all
man of any learning or vnderstanding thus in print and open view of the whole Realme to rage revell rush on with lying craking and facing when he speaketh not one true word for first Sir flincher is this the point heere or any where proposed by me whether Christs sufferings were only bodily did I promise or produce any Fathers to that end is it not the death of the soule and the paines of the damned which I impugned in Christs sufferings haue I not most truely performed which I euer professed that the whole Church of Christ for so many hundred yeeres neuer thought neuer heard of the death of Christs soule in the worke of our redemption but rested their faith on the death of Christs body as a most sufficient price both for the soules and bodies of the faithfull What cunning then is this first to shift your hands of that you can no way prooue though you still doe and must professe it and then to clamour at me for drawing the Fathers cleane from their intent and meaning is this the way to credit your new Creed by such deuices and stratagemes to intertaine the people of God least they should see how farre you be slid from the ancient primatiue Church of Christ take a while but the thought of a sober man and this pangue will soone be ouerpast Did you not vndertake to prooue the death of Christs soule by Scriptures which indeed I first and most required and haue you so donne looke backe to your miserable mistakings and palpable peruertings of the words of the holy Ghost and tell vs what one syllable you haue brought sounding that way are your secrets such that they be no where reuealed in the word of God must all faith come from thence and is your faith exempted that it shall haue no foundation there are men and Angels accursed that preach any other Gospell then was deliuered and written by Christs Apostles and shall you be excused for deuising a new kind of redemption by the death of Christs soule no where witnessed in the Scriptures you see how easie it were to be eloquent against you in a iust and true cause but words must not winne the field What I impugned my sermons will shew what I haue prooued I will not proclaime If I haue failed in that I endeuoured the labour is mine the liberty is the Readers to iudge Let the indifferent read it they shall find somewhat to direct them let the contentious skanne it they shall see somewhat to harle their hast and perhaps to restraine their stifnesse What euer it be I leaue it to others since the discourser hasteth towards an end and so doe I. s Defenc. pag. 146. li. 2 This is the profit that comes by ordinarie flaunting with Fathers which many do frequent in these dayes Thinke they if the Scriptures alone suffice not for things in religion that the Fathers will suffice or if the Scriptures may be wrested by subtle heads that yet the Fathers can not Is it not enough for your selfe to be a despiser of all antiquitie and sobrietie but you must insult at them that beare more regard to either than you do If to flaunt with Fathers be so great a fault which yet respecteth their iudgements that haue beene liked and allowed from age to age in the Church of Christ what is it to fliske with pride and follie grounded on nothing but on selfe-loue and singularitie It were to be wished that euen some of the best writers of our age as they thinke themselues had had more respect to the auncient Fathers then they shew we should haue wanted a number of nouelties in the Church of God which now wee are troubled withall as well in Doctrine as in discipline This course of concurring with the lights of Gods Church before our time in matters of faith though you mislike other manner of men then you are or euer will be haue allowed and followed as u August contra Iâ—…num li. 1. Augustine x Theodor. diol 2. 3. Theodorete y Leo epist. 97. 〈◊〉 Leonem Leo z Cassi. de incarnat Domini li. 7 ca. 5. Cassianus a Gelas. de duabus in Christo natâ—…ris Gelasius b Vigilius li. 5. cap. 6. Vigilius and the two c Hispalensi concilium 2. ca. 13. councels of Hispalis and others not doubting the sufficiencie of the Scriptures but shewing the correspondencie of beleeuing and interpreting the Scriptures in all ages to haue bene the same which they imbraced and vrged And in all euennesse of reason were it better to feede the people with our priuate conceits pretended out of Scripture or to let such as be of iudgement vnderstand that we frame no faith but such as in the best times hath bene collected and receiued from the grounds of holy Scripture by the wisest and greatest men in the Church of God your only example turning and winding the words of the holy Ghost to your owne conceits will shew how needfull it is not to permit euery prater to raigne ouer the Scriptures with figures and phrases at his pleasure and thence to fetch what faith he list If you so much reuerence the Scriptures as you report which were to be wished you would why deuise you doctrine not expressed in the Scriptures Why teach you that touching mans redemption which is no where written in the word of God Indeed the Scriptures are plaine in this point of all others what death Christ died for vs if you did not peruert them against the histories of the Euangelists and testimonies of the Apostles Omit the description of his death so farely witnessed by the foure Euangelists what exacter words can we haue then the Apostles that Christ d Coloss. 1. pacisied things in earth and things in heauen by the bloud of his crosse and reconciled vs which were strangers and enemies in the bodie of his flesh through death Beleeue what you reade and what you reade not in the word of God beleeue not and this matter is ended but by Synecdoches without cause you put to the Scriptures not what you read in them but what you like best and by Metaphores and Metonimies you will take bodie for substance and flesh for soule And so where the Apostle auoucheth that we were reconciled to God through death in the bodie of Christs flesh you tell vs we could not be redeemed without the death of Christs soule and the essence of the paines of the damned suffered by suddaine touches from the immediate hand of God after an extraordinarie manner If you teach no doctrine but deliuered in the Scriptures aband on these deuices not expressed in the Scriptures If you content your selfe with the all sufficient word of God in matters of faith you must relinquish the death of Christs soule and paines of the damned as no part of our redemption since there is no such thing contained in the word of God To me and
mouth of this most insolent prater that I professe I mislike nothing the writings and resolutions of all these learned Protestants for as much as I haue seene and read of them which is as much as I could get touching our redemption by the death of Christ but teach the same that they taught and in my priuate moderation could beare the words of many others those onely excepted who elude the plainenesse of the Scriptures with the finenesse of their new deuices were it not that such hoblers as this is vpon such occasions will neuer leaue their fresh inuenting new meanes and causes of our redemption till they be they know not where Taking it therefore to be no euill way when men of great wits and gifts begin to turne to their owne deuices to see what the learned and auncient lights of Christes Church beleeued and deriued from the sacred Scriptures in those very points of trueth and our saluation I haue chosen rather to shew thee Christian Reader the generall and continuall consent of religious and reuerend antiquitie then to muster mens names of latter times and by disgracing or comparing their labours or learnings to set any man or Church in fire If so many learned and auncient fathers displease happilie some in respect of their priuate contrarie conceits I haue done my duety to declare the trueth and shewed my desire of peace whiles I neuer ment nor can yet bee drawen to impeach any mans name or credit howsoeuer I thinke that some of them swarue from the exact rule and sense of holy Scriptures in some few points as well of doctrine as of discipline THE SECOND PART WHAT IS MEANT BY THIS IN THE CREED THAT Christ descended to HADES or Hell I Shall not need good Christian Reader to spend much time or paines in this question An article of the Creed since it is That Christ descended into Hell and the same deriued from the Scriptures confessed by all Antiquitie and confirmed by authoritie of this whole Realme as well in the booke of Common prayer as in the Articles of Religion ratified by Prince and Parliament it is not for an English man directly to dispute against it howsoeuer retaining the words many doubt or denie the sense thereof I may be the shorter for that the Refuter insisteth onely on foure reasons against the descent of Christ to the place of the damned which our English Creed calleth Hell and the rest which he bringeth is like his former labor that is is nothing but a bolde pronouncing of his owne conceits and a false misconstruing of other mens sayings His first reason is If there be a good and sound generall reason in Christian faith that Christes soule leauing his bodie ascended vp to heauen and there remained till his resurrection and if there be no speciall reason of authoritie to the contrariè that his soule now descended thâ—…n surely euerie good Christian ought to beleeue that his soule ascended to heauen and descended not locally into hell But both these former parts are most true Not one of these parts is true and were they as they are not most true yet conclude they not your purpose That Christes soule leauing his bodie ascended vp to heauen is more than any Scripture expresly auoucheth The order of our Creed leadeth vs to beleeue that Christ rose the third day from the dead before he ascended to heauen That he was in Paradise the same day that he died his owne words to the penitent thiefe This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise may proue if we admit them to be spoken of Christes soule and not of his Deitie as Saint Austen and others expound them but that Christes soule departing from his bodie and returning to the same againe diuerted no whither nor spoiled powers and principalities nor made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them for this there is neither good reason in the Christian faith nor warrant in the word of God but onely your couragious assuming any thing that may seeme to support your cause On the other side what reasons there are generall or speciall for Christes descent to hell though you make light of them the Church of Christ from the beginning hath receiued and professed them not from the mouthes of men but from the witnesse of holy Scripture howsoeuer you turne and winde the words of the Holie Ghost to fit them to your appetite And what so great need is there of speciall reasons of authoritie to the contrarie Will not generall testimonies of the Scriptures serue to proue a trueth except the speciall circumstances of time and place and maner be therewithall expressed The analogie of faith requireth that the head should be there where the members were and where they remaine till their resurrection that there he tarie till his resurrection It seemeth also these texts will prooue it Where I am there also shall my seruant be I will that where I am there they also shall be with me Did you speake of the perpetuall abode of the head and members in one and the same place of ioy and blisse at Gods appointed time Your words had some dependance on Christes promise saying Where I am there also shall my seruants be but this speech of Christes is restrained to a certaine time in which it shall be verified as appeareth by that he sayd I goe to prepare you a place I will come againe and receiue you vnto my selfe that where I am there also you may be At his next comming he will take vs vnto himselfe and then shall we be euer with the Lord. This is the time when his promise shall be performed And though the Saints dissolued are now with Christ that is not only receiued to rest and ioy in Christ but also where the glory of Christ sitting at the right hand of his Father continually shineth to them and on them with full assurance of euerlasting glory prepared for them yet no analogie of faith nor any words by you brought do proue all the Saints to haue their bodies now in heauen because Christ hath his there or that the soules of the iust were after the speaking of these words alwayes here on earth where Christ was or that all the Saints rose with him as some did or that when and where Christ appeared after his resurrection all his Saints must or did appeare with him Much lesse is there any sequele from either that all the soules of the righteous must or did accompanie Christes soule going to Paradise and comming thence so that he could not descend to Hell to triumph ouer Satan and all the power of darkenesse but the spirits of the iust deceased must leaue Paradise and go thither with him I see not but that he promiseth heere his seruants euen a locall accompanying of him after this life and that also generally whither soeuer he went Then was Peter a slender Diuine who hearing these words from his Masters mouth did
departed from the bodie it rested not idle but descended ad inferos vnto hell And surely the one and the other societic both of godly soules and of the damned found the presence of Christes soule For the soules of the faithfull were cheered with great comfort and gaue God thanks sor deliuering them by the hand of this Mediatour and performing that which so long before he had promised Other soules also adiudged to euerlasting damnation animae Christi aduentum persenserunt perceiued the comming of Christes soule Zanchius shewing the different interpretations of those words of the Apostle Christ spoiled powers and principalities and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in himselfe that is in his owne person sayth Other Interpreters hold that these enemies were vâ—…nquished and conquered on the crosse by Christ but the triumph was pâ—…rformed when Christ in his soule entred the kingdome of Hell as a glorious victorer For so they interpret the Article He descended into Hell And because the word deigmatizein doth signifie to carie one in an open shew as the Romans were woont in the eyes of men to leade their enemies once ouerthrowen with their hanâ—…s bound behinde them to their perpetuall shame and the soule of Christ separated from his bodie might really doe this to the diuels bringing them out of their infernall kingdome and carying them along the aire in the sight of all the Angels and blessed soules therefore nothing hindereth vs to interpret that which Paul heere writeth as the words sound euen of a reall triumph ouer the diuels in the sight of God onlie and of the blessed spirits specially since the Fathers for the most part so expound them ex nostris non pauci neque vulgares and of our Expositors not a few and those no meane men Aretius in his Problemes purposely treating of Christes descent to hell first alleageth that Tota Ecclesia vbique terrarum hodie illum Articulum agnoscit diuer sum à sepultura recitat the whole Church throughout the world at this date acknowledgeth that article and reciteth it as different from Christs buriall And to that obiection that some Creeds had not this clause he answereth The Church finding the descent of Christ to hell to be plainly deliuered in the Scriptures with great aduise admitted this Article into the Creed Otherwise how could it be that with so full consent of all nations and all tongues this clause should be so constantly and so consentingly receaued Repeating therefore many other senses he refuseth them euery one and concludeth Quare mea est sententia Christum descendisse ad inferos postquam tradidisset spiritum in manus Dei patris in cruce c. Wherfore mine opinion is that Christ descended into hell after he yeelded his soule on the Crosse to the hands of God his Father And hell in this question we put to be a certaine place appointed for the damned euen for Satan and his members To the words of Christ vttered to the thiefe this daie shalt thou be with me in Paradise I answere they hinder not this cause For Christ was in Paradise with the thiefe according to his diuinity in the graue according to his body in hell according to his soule Howbeit there is no certaintie how long Christ staied in hell not long it seemeth so that he might in soule that verie day returne from hell and after a glorious sort enter Paradise with the thiefe Neither hath that any more strength that Christ commended his soule into his Fathers handes For the soule of Christ was still in his Fathers hands though he descended into hell This descent was voide of forrow and shame to Christ. Where they say there was no need of this descent they run backe to the beginning for how should it be needlesse which the Scripture pronounceth Christ did and we confesse in our Creed We iudge it therefore needfull first for the reprobate that they might know he was now come of whose comming they had so often heard but neglected it with great contempt Againe Satan was perfectly to know that this Christ whom he had tempted in the desart and deliuered to death by the fraud of the Iewes was the very Messias and the seed promised to the woman Hoc inquam expediebat etiam Demonibus in imo Tartaro innotescere This I say was expedient euen for the diuels in the deepe of hell to know Thirdly it was expedient for the elect that Satan might see he should haue no right no not on their bodies since Christ heereafter would raise them to life Hemmingius As Christ by his death conflicted with the enemy on the gibbet of the crosse and ouercame him so by his glorious descent to hell resurrection and ascension to heauen he executed the triumph erecting as a monument of his victorie the ensigne of his crosse Mollerus writing on the 16. Psalme Touching Christes descent to hell We saith he vnderstand that Article of our faith in the Creede simply and without allegorie and beleeue that Christ truely descended to the lower parts of the earth as Paul speaketh Ephes. 4. It is enough for vs to beleeue which Austen affirmeth in his Epistle to Dardanus Christ thereforâ—… descended that he might helpe those which were to be holpen For Christ by his death destroied the powers of hell and the tyrannie of the diuell as is said Osee 13. O death I will be thy death and thy destruction O hell And this his victory he would in a certaine maner shew vnto the diuell that he might strike perpetuall terrors into the diuell and take from vs all feare of Satans tyrannie Let it suffice vs to know this and omit curious questions and disputations heereabouts Pomeranus on these words of the 16. Psalme Thou wilt not leaue my soule in Hell Heere hast thou saith he that Article of our faith Christ descended into hell If thou aske what he did there I answer He then deliuered not the Fathers onely but all the faithfull from the beginning of the world to the end thereof not out of Lymbus but out of the lowest nether most hell to which we all were condemned and in which we all were as in death by the sentence of God There euerlasting fire did abide to vs all that being deliuered to death by the sinne of Adam we might in the last iudgement be deliuered to punishment and perpetuall sire Christ therefore descended euen thither vnto death and hell to this end least thou shouldest dâ—…scend thither that as he had redeemed vs from death so he might deliuer vs from hell Westmerus in his expositions of the Psalmes followeth worde for word the confession of Pomerane Wolfgangus Musculus Christ therefore was to die not that he should simply be dead but that by his death he might conquer death and ouercome him that had the rule ouer death and so he was to descend to hell
vs though against the opinion of the Fathers that the soules of the holie Patriarks dead before Christ were not beneath but aboue Not in Limbo but with God in peace ioy and blisse euen in Paradise that is heauen Your certainties be your owne ouerhastie coniectures neither well vnderstanding your selfe nor others In the places which you quote out of my Sermons I say as Christ himselfe deliuered that the iust deceased were in Abrahams bosome which the wise man calleth the hand of God And that Abrahams bosome was vpward farre aboue hell as appeareth by the wordes of our Sauiour more I durst not determine Neither did I make Abrahams bosome to be Paradise or Heauen I had no warrant so to doe but the place whither the soule of the thiefe was caried the day of his death Christ calleth Paradise which the Apostle seemeth to make a part of the third heauen And heere were the soules of the righteous after Christes death except you thinke that Paradise was prouided only for the penitent thiefe which S. Austen counteth a great absurditie Thus much I said and still say as also that the faithfull departing this life rest from their labours and dwell with the Lord in places prepasred and appointed for them though as yet they haue not their house which is eternall in the heauens nor are clothed with life swallowing vp mortalitie But that the soules of the Patriarks were in heauen that is in the glorie of gods kingdome before the death and comming of Christ I haue no such wordes in any of the pages which you produce I vse not of things vnknowen to giue hastie iudgement I leaue it to God who hath many places of abode in his house and desire not to search into his secrets vnreuealed in this life Hence I conclude that Christes soule after his death ascended indeed and descended not downward beneath vs heere I heare your conclusion but I see no premises from which you may iustly inferre so much For though the soule of Christ might ascend after death if we respect situation of place in comparison of the earth yet because the Scriptures reckon no ascending but into the glorie of heauen otherwise the diuels that rule in the aire should ascend and the damned that come to iudgement shall ascend the Christian faith doth not say that Christ ascended before he descended And the apostle exactly obseruing the relation and application of those two wordes vnto Christ saith his descending was the first of the twaine that was performed This saith he that Christ ascended what is it but that he first descended into the lower parts of the earth Otherwise if you be disposed to play with the ascending and descending of Christes person bodie or soule before or after death you may finde vs many descents and ascents besides the two that are mentioned in our Creed The Nicene Creed saith of his person that for vs and our saluation he descended from heauen and was incarnate by the holy Ghost of the virgine Marie and of himselfe he saith I am the liuing bread which descended from heauen Then after his death his soule ascended as you say and so must descend againe before his body could be restored to life Now the apostle saith Christ descended into the lower parts of the earth and likewise must thence ascend before his resurrection And lastly after forty daies he ascended body and soule aboue all the heauens Heere are sixe descents and ascents if you list to controle the Creed but the Christian faith following the apostle noteth onely two his descending to hell or to the lower parts of the earth and his ascending aboue all heauens which were two materiall parts of our saluation after he tooke flesh and profitable for vs to know And though you stifly stand on this that Christes soule descended not downeward beneath vs heere Yet against the Creed and the apostles wordes that Christ descended to hell and to the lower parts of the earth no wise man will admit either your opinion or assertion howsoeuer you thinke you can make a florish with Dauids words who saith he was fashioned beneath in the earth of which we will speake when we come to examine the force of the apostles wordes Only except there be some speciall reason of good authoritie to the contrary which is the second point of importance heere to be considered Touching which thus I say without expresse and euident Scripture there is in the world no sound nor meet authoritie to disprooue our former reason or conclusion Your reasons raked out of the Scripture are such that no man need to regard they are miserable mistakings and palpable misapplyings of the Scriptures intending no such thing as you imagine and for the contrarie they are plaine enough and such as haue been receaued and reuerenced by all Christendom without exception till you and some others in our age started vp with figures and phrases to mince and manage the Scriptures to your pleasure They are â—…eely diuines that doe not know the names of heauon and hell of life and death of flesh and spâ—…it of Christ and of God may be diuersly taken and diuersly vsed euen by example of holy Scriptures but it is the high way to all heresie and infidelity to turne and wind euery word occurrent in the Scriptures after euery signification that may be found thereof in the old or new Testament without respect to the maine grounds of the Christian faith and to make Rabbins and Pagans to be the best interpreters of words vsed by the holy Ghost to expresse the mysteries of Christs kingdome And how come you now to be so strickt in this second question that without expresse and euident Scripture against which you cannot so much wrangle you will yeeld to nothing who were so licentious in the former that without all Scripture and against the Scripture you maintained a new kind of redemption by the death of Christs soule and his suâ—…ering the second death which if you stand to the word of God is eternall damnation of body and soule in hell fire you shew your selfe more then a Patriarke in the Church thus to coine new articles of the Creed without all warrant of the word and to cast out the old though confessed and continued since Christs time because you find some words to haue diuers senses at least with Iewish and heathen writers though not with Christians Austen himselfe auoucheth well and faithfully supposing there were no expresse nor plaine Scripture for Christes descending theâ—… sayth he it were maruellous boldnesse that any should dare say he went downe to hell But the same Austen in the same place telleth you that euidentia testimonia infernum commemorant dolores euident testimones of Scriptures mention both hell and the sorowes thereof to which Christ came And for full proofe heereof he sayth euâ—…n in the same Epistle We can not contradict
the holy Scriptures hath great weight with me There is as much difference betwixt this mans modestie and yours as there is betweene his learning and yours He durst not condemne the iudgement of the Fathers because it had probable grounds and was no way contrary to the Scriptures you auouch they had no shew of reason from any place of Scripture But your reward will be according for where he is with all and euen by your selfe reputed a sound and learned Writer no man will take you but for an vnsound and vnlearned Boaster I haue largely and plainly shewed Treat pag. 140. that this place speaketh not a whit neither of hell nor of Christes soule descending locally neither before his death nor after I◅ noteth only Christes sensible and apparent humiliation to the last and lowest point that is to the graue according to the Hebrew phrase which the Apostles frequented in their Greeke writings very much You haue shewed it as your maner is with your seeming saying that so you iudge but other proofs you offer none besides phrases and figures wherein you take vpon you to be very copious I say then Thus I say It seemes to me and Thus do I iudge these be your best demonstrations the rest is idle and vaine talke Three senses you make of these wordes but not one of them otherwise than by your owne authoritie Some thinke you say that this Greeke phrase to the lower parts of the earth is only a figure of speech a kinde of hypallage for the earth which is the lower part of the world If euery mans thoughts may stand for sound and true Expositions of the Scripture we shall haue many moe deuices than the world hath yet heard of but how proue you this in◅erting of the Apostles words by your supposed figures to be the true meaning of the holy Ghost Whatsoeuer pleaseth not your humour in the words of God if you may chop and change with figures of speech you will lea◅ little the◅e that shall not taste of your turnsall Others doe thank◅ that it may be taken as al◅ding to that metaphoricall Hebrew phrase tachtijoth erets the lower parts of the earth where Dauid meaneth his Mothers wombe And then wh◅re Dauid meaneth only Christs taking our flesh The Christian faith was neuer framed out of phrases or figures of speach vnknowen to the people and passing their vnderstanding neither did the Apostles so deliuer matters of doctrine as purposely ◅oluing them in euery darcke and doubtfull phrase that might be gathered out of Moses or of the Prophets this is the way to leaue nothing certaine in the booke of God though the wordes be neuer so plaine as long as any phrase or figure may peruert it If Dauid once by a metaphoricall kind of resemblance called the lowest part of his Mothers body where he was fashioned and framed tachijot◅ arets the bottom of the earth that is of his mother being earth or compared with the earth which is the common mother of vs all whence our bodies first came and whither they must returne or noted the strangenesse and secretnesse of his conception and formation in his mothers wombe by the bowels of the earth where mettals and minerals lie and grow in like manner What is this to the Apostles words who dallieth not heere with obscure phrases and metaphors as Dauid did for ciuilities sake calling his mothers wombe the bowels of the earth but expoundeth the words of Dauid cited immediately before that Christ ascending vp on hi◅ led captiuity captiue and gaue gifts vnto men That then which the apostle immediately addeth by way of a Parenthesis must tend wholy to the declaration and exposition of these words of Dauid that Christ ascending led captiuity captiue the later words that he gaue gifts to men he presently and largely sheweth how they were performed after Christs ascending to heauen And since Christs conception though it be an Article of our faith yet was wrought by the holy Ghost not as Dauids was neither was Christs body fashioned by degrees first in seed then in bloud after in flesh as Dauid confesseth his was but after a more strange and wonderfull manner as the Fathers both Greeke and Latin teach and during the time of his conception Christ did not lead captiuity captiue his mothers wombe can no way pertaine to the Apostles purpose in this place howsoeuer you or some others would faine shew their deuices in making the Apostle hunt after strange and obscure metaphors out of Dauids words once vsed for good manners sake It seemes to me a very plaine Hebraisme expressing tachijoth erets which words are no where found for hell for the graue they are found Like to this is erets tachtith Ezechiel 31 where the seuerall circumstances doe plainly teach that the graue only is there ment and the condition of death the same sense manifestly hath another Hebrew phrase very like to this Sheol tachijah psal 86 and Sheol tachath Esa 14 where though many thinke hell is signified yet surely the circumstances doe conuince that the graue only is there ment this do I iudge that the descēding of Christ to the lower parts of the earth may be taken truly plainly as is agreeable to the Hebrew phrase whence surely this Greeke phrase ariseth namely for Christs humiliation vnto the graue Heere is your third exposition of the Apostles words which you call a plaine demonstration that this place speaketh neuer a word of hell nor of Christs descending thither but only of his graue and if these proud and vaine bragges may goe for proofes you will prooue any thing but you must come backe for all this hast and learne that trueth is not so lightly put from her holdfast as you suppose For setting aside your hypallages and metaphors which are nothing to the meaning of the Apostle in this place the ground which heere you lay that erets tachtith the lowest earth and Sheol tachtijah the lower Sheol are no where vsed for hell but euery where for the graue is false and full of rash resolution directly repugnant to the trueth of the Scriptures and the circumstances of those places to which you appeale And least the Reader should thinke I speake altogether out of mine owne head peremptorily and presumptuously as you doe he shall heare the iudgement of some of the eldest Rabbins and others well learned in the Hebrew tongue touching these phrases and then we will examine the circumstanccs of the texts themselues And because I would make but one labour of manie and the meaning of Sheoltachtijah the lower sheol and erets tachtith the lower earth cannot well be discerned vntill we see what sheol naturally and truely signifieth I will fir◅t examine the signification of sheol at which you and others so much stumble and then grow to consider of the places where those words are vsed and their circumstances Sheol properly signifieth the pitts or places vnder earth where the bodies or
is into hell Euthymius After death they shall descend to hell Lyra. Into the lower parts that is to Gehenna which is in the lower parts of the earth So Pellican They that seeke me to death shall fall on destruction and be rather thrust downe to hell Pomerane These things shew that all the endeuours of such as be enemies to godlinesse shal be frustrate and they shall descend to hell to euerlasting death Westhmerus followeth Pomerane word for word Bucer Dauid denounceth destruction to his enemies seeking his soâ—…le to death as that they should be cast downe to hell which he meaneth by the lower parts of the earth The verse ensuing fortelleth the reiection of their carcaâ—…es to be meat for Foxes Felinus insisteth on the very same words Mollerus They shall goe to the lowest parts of the earth that is they shall vtterly perish and descend to hell and their carcasses be cast abroad in the fields to be torne and deâ—…oured of wild Beasts Hauing now found by the circumstances of the Scriptures themselues as also by the iudgement of so many Iewish Rabbins Christian writers old and new expositors that your heaping vp of Hebrew phrases is but the vaine broching of your owne fansies and consequently that there is no cause for you to controle the full consent of so many learned Fathers as haue applied the Apostles wordes to Christs descent to the lower parts of the earth that is to hell which the Scriptures place vnder the earth Let vs see which of these two senses yours or mine best fitteth the apostles purpose Of yours I may safely say it hath no coherence with the wordes nor intent of the Apostle For these two verses the ninth and the tenth interposed wiâ—…h a parenthesis apparantly pertaine to the verifying of Dauids wordes cited immediately before in the eight verse that Christ ascending on high lead captiuitie captiue Before Christes ascending by way of relation the Apostle putteth Christes descending and because descending and ascending must haue contrary extreames from which and to which the motion is made therefore to the highest heauens aboue which Christ ascended Paul opposeth the lowest parts of the earth to which Christ first descended The end of his descending is comprised in Dauids wordes to leade Captiuitie Captiue which must be from the place of their chiefest strength euen as the end of his ascending after hee had led captiuitie Captiue was to giue gifts to men Now these two are the greatest blessings that Christ in this life bestoweth on his Church and in order follow one the other as Dauid first and after him the Apostle setteth them For we were first to be deliuered from our enemies and from the hands of all that hate vs I meane the enemies of our soules as Zacharie filled with the holy Ghost did prophesie we should before we could serue him without feare in holinesse and righteousnesse as wee ought to doe â—…ll the dayes of our life Deliuerance from the power of our enemies we had none but by Christs conquering them and leading them Captiue And full conquest ouer them Christ had none but by rising from the dead and treading vnder his feet all their power and strength not onely against himselfe but against all his And no place fitter to dissolue and breake all their force and might then in the chiefe castle of their kingdome which is hell seated in the lower parts of the earth So that this exposition of the learned and auncient Fathers which I before abundantly deliuered in their owne wordâ—…s is so farre from any iust challenge that it orderly and plainely lightneth and iustifieth the wordes of Dauid which the Apostle there taketh vpon him to illustrate Now in your exposition there is no such thing For first the graue is not in the lower parts of the earth nor opposite to the height of heauen whither Christ ascended according to the Apostles wordes Next Christ descending to his graue was rather lead captiue of death then shewed any conquest ouer death Thirdly before Christ many rose from the graue as well aunciently raised by Elias and Elizeus as then newly by Christ himselfe But this conquest which Dauid heere celebrateth was not ouer the graue onely but ouer hell Satan sinne death and all the power and feare of the enemie which Christ led Captiue leauing none vnconquered and made an open shew of them triumphing ouer them in his owne person as the same Apostle elsewhere deliuereth Therefore this place must stand for good till you or your friends bring better helpes to vnioynt it then your and their idle phrasiologie gainsaying the whole Church of Christ for your priuate nouelties and vanities Where you expound the text and say he descended to the lowest and ascended to the highest that he might fill all places with the presence of his manhood you speake both inconueniently and farre from the Apostles meaning You adde to it with his presence very deceitfully in a differing letter like the text and together with the text What censure this deserueth the godly doe know What censure deserue you that cannot speake three lines without an open iniurie or manifest folly You first confesse I expound the text and then you charge me with adding to the text as if any man could possibly expound any place of Scripture and adde nothing to the wordes Then were plaine reading of the text the best expounding of it and so should all exposition be superfluous and iniurious as most of your expositions are And who besides you so deepely doteth as to charge an expositour with saying somewhat besides the text but I adde it in a different letter like the text and together with the text I cannot expound any place of Scripture but I must insert the wordes of the text which I expound and ioyne them together with mine owne The text I cite not three lines before exactly as it lieth in the apostles writings and set by the side the quotation of the place Ephes. 4. with a direction to the wordes alleaged by me out of the apostle I then reason from the true meaning of the apostles wordes who saith that Christ first descended to the lower parts of the earth and ascending on high lead captiuitie captiue Whence did Christ lead captiuitie captiue but from the lower parts of the earth If that were the purpose of his descending the lower parts of the earth were the place whence he lead captiuitie euen all his our enemies captiue And so I made the conclusion of mine owne and not a fresh allegation as you absurdly mistake of the Apostles words Christ then descended into the lower parts of the earth and thence lead captiuitie captiue that he might fill all places with his presence Where if your eies were not more then dimme you might soone see I quoted no text as I did before but declared by mine owne wordes inserted what I gathered out of the
Then notwithstanding your exception not worth a straw these are two maine grounds of the Christian faith that Christ dying descended to the decpe and rising ascended to heauen and hee that but doubteth in his heart of either of these by the apostles verdict emptieth and reuerseth Christs death and resurrection And did not this latter question who can descend to the deepe pertaine directly vnto Christ who onely of all men that euer were descended to the deepe of Hell and returned againe with safetie and glory we might not onely iustly doubt whoeâ—…er besides Christ descended to the deepe of the earth but our faith teacheth vs plainely â—…o denâ—…e that euer man Christ cxcepted did descend to the deepe supposing now that to signifie hell as you doe and yet doth not our faith frustrate the death of Christ but therein rather commend it and exalt it that neuer man was able to doe as he did that is dying and descending to subiect hell vnder his power and to deliuer all his from thence So that if the deepe heere doe signifie hell then is heere a plaine resolution of the Apostle that Christ dying descended to hell Now least you should take any pride in your peâ—…ting answere not worth a tagge of of a blew point the Reader shall see that all interpreters old and new and euen those on whom you would seeme most to relie haue with one consent comprised the person of Christ in these two questions and yeelded the Apostles answcre to be very extrauagant which God forbid vnlesse Christ were comprised as well in the questions as in the answeres Oecumenius The Apostle referreth these things to Christ. That is wauer not neither say in thy mind how did Christ descend from heauen or did Christ being dead rise from the deepe that is from the lowest places cast all such thoughts out of thy mind Theophylact. Stagger not saith the apostle neither doubtingly cast this in thy mind how Christ descended from heauen or how after death he rose from the deepe id est ex abditissimo profundissimo loco that is from the deepest and most hidden place Erasmus Who shall ascend to heauen that being spoken of the Law Paul interpreteth and applieth to Christ. For that is saith he to draw Christ from heauen Or who shall descend into the deepe that is who will beleeue the things that are spoken of hell except he see them this is sayth Paul to draw Christ backe from the dead as though he did not descend to hell or they desired that in their sight he would againe descend to hell Peter Martyr thus setteth the Apostles questions Who shall ascend to heauen to see whether God bee reconciled to vs by Christ or who shall descend downe into the deepe to see euerlasting death weakned and abolished by him that is by Christ Bucere The Apostle acknowledgeth in this question the deniall of Christ and that he draweth Christ downe from heauen which admitteth this doubt It is euident that the deepe is taken pro inferis for hell and in this sense the Apostle seemeth to haue vsed this word the deepe for hee addeth that is to bring Christ backe from the dead to wit to account his descent to hell to be void and his victorie ouer death and Gehenna Hyperiâ—…s Say not who shall descend into the deepe thou art eased of this trouble by Christs resurrection from the dead and from hell Gualtere Who shall descend to the deepe to see whether death be disarmed hell gates broken open the Diuels kingdome subuerted and we truely redeemed from all these doâ—… not they denie death to haue beene conquered by the merit and resurrection of Christ and therefore would haue him againe to die and to returne to hell to doe that once more which he hath alreadie performed Piscator The heart of him that beleeueth doth not descend by his thoughts to the deepe to trie whether victorie be obtained against eternall death For if he doubt of this he must also doubt whether Christ were dead ad inferos descender it and descended to hell Beza Because the law proposed heauen but vnder an impossible condition and threatned the deepe that is destruction for the offence to which we are all subiect whosoeuer cleaueth to the righteousnesse of the law of force is compelled to crie out who shall ascend to heauen or descena into the deepe to take me hence and lead me thither But contrariwise faith suggesteth that Christ is he which ascended to heauen to carrie vs thâ—…ther with him and descended into the depth of death to abolish him that had power of death Take which of these expositions you will it is euident in euery one of them that by the Christian faith both these impossible actions as man thinketh of ascending to heauen and descending to the deepe were performed for vs in the person of Christ and therefore now to doubt of either is to weaken eneruate the power of Christ who most perfectly hath accomplished both to saue vs from one and bring vs to the other And heere also by the deepe those whom you would seeme to follow vnderstand destruction and eternall death as all the rest doe from which Christ hath freed vs by descending and destroying them for vs. This I say the dead heere importeth the generall condition and state of all the dead as it is opposed to the state of the liuing Yea it is not vnlikely that the former word Abyssâ—… the deepe is vsed also heere by the Apostle to signifie not hell but euen this condition and state of death which is a gulfe bottomlesse neuer satisfied and vnrecouerable like as Sheôl in Hebrew doth likewise properly signifie You shew your selfe by your saying to haue little care what you say that not onely you crosse all Expositors without exception but euen the Scriptures themselues without any respect of trueth or touch of conscience For where the Apostle proposeth this last point Who shall descend to the deepe and returne againe as possible onely to Christ and to none else by your vntidie tale that the deepe heere signifieth the generall condition of the dead opposed to the liuing you make the apostle a weake reasoner or rather a plaine lyer For could Paul at this time be ignorant that Elias and Elizeus raised some from the generall condition of the dead that Christ restored three from death Peter did the like for Tabitha Is there not plaine testimonie giuen in the Scriptures that through faith the women receaued their dead raised to life If this were not onely possible but so vsuall as the Scriptures declare how could Paul make this actioÌ„ of descending to the deepe possible but only to Christ wherefore I say you must be better aduised or else you shew yourselfe in an open and impudent falshood to ruffle and reuell with the holy Ghost testifying that many haue gone to the condition
that rest which Lauatere nameth is not the ioy of heauen but rest from the labours of this life which our bodies attaine in the graue specially when the Soule enioyeth her eternall and happie rest which the wicked want that are adiudged to the place of torments Tremellius saith This Hebrew word Sheôl doth signifie any station or state of the dead in generall in very many places of Scripture and hell it may sometime signifie but by a figure Synecdoche Tremellius hath been once afore alleadged and answered He doth not say that Sheol signifieth Heauen or Paradise but the Stations of the dead he maketh to be Sepulchrum or infernum the graue for dead bodies or Hell for the dead Soules to both which Sheol is a common name and sometimes importeth the one sometimes the other and sometimes both When both are intended the word hath his full force when onely one the figure Synecdoche is vsed as he thinketh But what is this to your purpose shew that euer Tremellius translateth Sheol by Heauen or Paradise and then you saâ—…â—…mewhat though I be not bound to Tremellius authoritie farder then he maketh faire and cleere proofe of his assertion Otherwise this is a plaine conâ—…ction of your falsehoode if you pretend by mistaking Tremellius words that Sheol signiâ—…eth as well Heauen as Hell and the graue and when you be asked for an example of that signification in the Scriptures you can produce no one place in the whole Bible where Tremellius himselfe hath so translated Sheol Of â—…nius I haue formerly spoken he was very learned but he tooke holde of Tertullians errour repugnant to all the Fathers as I haue shewed before He likewise mistooke Chrysostom for Chrysostom supposeth Abraham to be in hades before Christes resurrection but not after Irenaeus sayth the soules of Christes Disciples haue an inuisible place defined them of God but he expresseth neither name nor site thereof What proofe make any of these that heauen or paradise is called infernus or hades or that there is a state of the dead in one place common to good and bad as you defend out of Fulgentius The rather this sensâ—… of hades we are to acknowledge because it hath beene the ancient phrase and common vsâ—… of speech before Christianitie which sufficiently â—… shewed before out of Homer Plato and others The heathen writers fitted their phrases to their heathen errors and therefore except you be disposed to reuiue their prophane fansies of Infernus and Hades which they thought common to good and bad you haue no reason to follow their phrase either in Hades or Inferi What hath heauen or paradise to do with Plutoes kingdome vnder earth where the Pagan Poets and Philosophers placed both torments for the wicked and pleasant fields for the godly And therefore your idle and fruitlesse discourse of almost three whole leaues tending onely to smooth vp the vnchristian follies and phrases of Pagans I omit as not woorth the answering and as you referre them to the iudgement of the learned and wise Reader so do I not doubting but if he be learned or wise he will not suffer you to expound the Scriptures by fabulous Poets or erroneous Philosophers altogether strangers to the Christian religion but will keepe you rather to the rules and directions of the holy Ghost whose sense is the safest and surest way to measure matters of faith Only I will touch two or three of your foolish ouersights and bolde presumptions lest my silence should breed you confidence in your conceits The holy Apostles doe teach the heauenly trueth with the very words and Grammar of the heathen men whereunto that serueth which is written of them we euery man heare them speake in our owne tongues and languages wherein we were borne Why speake you of Grammar which is common to all professions and skip the signification and meaning of these words which are proper to Christians who though they vse many words abused by Pagans to ignorant and false apprehensions yet retaine they such sense of those words as the trueth of God prescribeth and not as Pagans and Idolaters imagined And to whom did the Apostles speake in this place which you cite to prophane and heathen men or to Iewes that were well acquainted with Moses and the Prophets though they were borne in diuers places of the world and vnderstood the languages of many other nations the Scripture saith euen of this multitude then assembled to heare the Apostles speake with diuers tongues There were dwelling at Ierusalem Iewes men Religious or fearing God of euerie nation vnder heauen Els to what end did Peter alleage to them the Prophets Ioel and Dauid if they knew the writings of neither but that whole Sermon of Peters prooueth that they were familiarly conuersant in the Scriptures and therefore the Apostles speaking strange languages so tempered their wordes and sense as men trained vp in Moses might wel vnderstand their meaning And when the Apostles spake or wrot in other tongues besides the Hebrew trow you they retained the same sense and vnderstanding in euery word that the Pagans did who knew nothing of Christ how many words are there which the writings of the Euangelists and Apostles turne from their generall and vsuall signification amongst the heathen to expresse things proper to Christian religion shall Euangelium fides spiritus ecclesia episcopus diaconus presbyter martyr diabolus and many such import no more with Christians then they did with Pagans who euer was so blind that euer read any thing Hades then the apostles might did vse for a place vnder earth where the wicked after this life were tormented so far they agreed with the vse of the word formerly receaued but where vnbeleeuers thought the soules of the godly were likewise in the same place vnder the earth tho gh in more rest or in some pleasures such as naturall men could deuice the Apostles and Euangelists instructed no doubt by their Master and by his example correcting that error named the place where the soules of the faithfull were receaued after death Paradise and an heauenly habitation And where the Iewes vsed Sheol foâ—… all that was vnder the earth were it the graue for dead bodies or hell for wicked soulâ—…s the new Testament distinguishing hades from death and making the one a consequent to the other in the wicked prooueth hades there to be taken onlie for the place of torment after this life I thought that those few allâ—…gations which I brought out of Plato Homer and Plutark for the Greeke of the Latins for the Latin would haue sufficed to cause you not to deny so cleare and manifest a trueth That hades with them did signifie the world of soules without any limitation in the very word it selfe either of state or place Had the Pagans any hades which they thought was in no place or were the soules of good and bad in no state doe not the
also in the same place with the damned Such new Cosmographie well becommeth your new Diuinitie without such misshapen Asses you are not able to open your mouth But if this be your best defence for your new found Hades your Reader I trust will be better aduised before he will be in the same place or minde with you The Scriptures teach vs to distinguish places according to their names giuen them by God himselfe as heauen earth and hell and not to make all one common place or world of soules which you haue newly created We stand not so much on this that by hades must be vnderstood any one place common to all the dead but the state and condition of death among the dead All this while you haue beene prouing that hades is an inuisible place and so doth Ambrosse expound it aïdes is a place not seene which we call Hell now you can not tell how to bring heauen and hell which are so farre distant asunder to be one common place you would faine reduce them to one common state or condition of death when the Scriptures euery where make them opposite ascribing light and life to the one and darkenesse and death to the other But you haue found one common condition of death in both which is to want their bodies What say you then to Elias who was caried vp to heauen or to Paradise aliue and neuer died Are he and the rest who rose from their graues with Christ in the common condition of death What say you to Core Dathan Abiram and their company who descended aliue to hades are they free from the condition of death in hades because they haue their bodies Meere priuations are no conditions or states And therefore to want their bodies for a time either in heauen or in hell maketh no common estate to both no more than that they are all soules and contained in some certaine limitation of place which nothing touch their condition or state otherwise the damned in hell and the blessed in heauen shall alwayes haue one common state and condition because they shall eternally be fastned to their places and shall haue their soules vnited to their bodies and shall remember things past and such like which yet do not performe one common estate or condition to both since they shall haue so many contraries to make them differ euen as now they haue though degrees of ioy and paine shall then increase The Pagans esteemed indeed a part of his dominion to be hell properly but a part also to be the region of the happie This is like the rest of your trueths Did the Pagans know or acknowledge none other heauen but hades Did euer man so write or speake that had read but one leafe of prose or Poetrie neuer read you what Cicero citeth out of Ennius Romulus in caelo cum Dijs agit aeuum Romulus enioyeth eternitie with the Gods in heauen And addeth of his owne Quid totum propè coelum nonne humano genere completum est The whole heauen is it not almost replenished with mankind Homer and the rest of the Greeke Poets were not ignorant hereof nor silent herein Of Hercules Homer sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He doth solace himselfe with the immortall Gods And what was ouranos with them if hades were their heauen Arristotle sayth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The highest place of the world being the seat or habitation of God is called heauen To this heauen the Poets admitted the sons of their Gods obscurely lighting on that rule of true religion the sons of God shal inherit the kingdome of God but the Philosophers plainly affirme of iustice and pietie ea vita via est in coelum such a life is the way to heauen And for al the helpers encreasers and preseruers of their countrey certum esse in coelo ac dâ—…finitum locum vbi beati aeuo sempiterno fruantur there is a set and certaine place in heauen where they shall enioy euerlasting blessednesse The Greeke Poets then were not ignorant of heauen aboue when they sent most men departing this life to Hades beneath but they had heard somewhat of that diuine sentence which adiudged mankind for sinne to death both of body and Soule and thereupon as there manner is to multiply their owne fansies and fables they placed all mortall men in Hades below and yet allowed the better sort of men some ease and comfort though they neuer brought them to heauen except they thought them the sonnes of some God What is this to the true heauen which is the glorious seate of God and the euerlasting habitation of his Angels and Saints Why yoke you Gods trueth with Poeticall fables and humane fansies as if the one were not onely a meet paterne for the other but the same place with the other How commeth hades to be al one with the created world and so not only men liuing are in hades but Saints and Angels yea Christ himselfe is still in hades since neither he nor they are without the compasse of the created world So large is your predicament of hades that the whole world is scant wide enough for it After this you reade vs a lecture of more than two leaues how the Apostles taught the trueth of the Gospell with the very words of the heathens and as you make rules for their speech at your pleasure so you take paines to bring no authour for all that you say besides your selfe I haue heard so many of your trifling and wandering discourses that I am starke wearie with reading them and if it haue no better weight than your word you may keepe your winde and saue your labour Who doubteth but the Holy Ghost might and did correct as well the words as errours of the heathens and reduced both their eares and hearts to the vnderstanding and imbracing of the Gospell Wherefore such words as Infidels abused and defiled with their wicked imaginations the Apostles of Christ restrained and applied to expresse the trueth thereby teaching the heathen to keepe their words and leaue their errours and not framing the Gospel to the prophane sense or vse of their speech What conclude you hence for hades That the Apostles retained the erroneous sense of that word and made it worse than the Pagans did For the heathen vsed that word for places vnder the earth where soules after this life were kept and you would haue the Apostles vse it for Heauen and Paradise where the soules of the righteous are as well as for hell where the damned are Leaue therefore your idle vagaries the Apostles vsed the word hades for the places vnder the earth where soules were detained as the heathen did but in this they redressed the Pagans conceits that they as naturall men dreamed of bodily pleasures in hades which the Scriptures make a place of torment with perpetuall fire Put this correction to the Poets opinion of hades as touching
the very Tartarean Chaos or dungeon of hell You know the Apostle mentioneth the Aire and that on high as being the place of diuels Notwithstanding farre be it from me to affirme that hell certainely is not beneath Yet your pretended Scriptures are meerely forced to prooue it Your are lighted iust on Master Broughtons argument whose folly hath filled many sheetes afore and now all his Religion learning and reasons are emptied in the fourth part of one poore printed sheete of the lesser size of paper Onely in this he shewed some witte that he foresaw of such brainesicke stuffe the least would be the best But doe you vnderstand for he is not worthy an answere who can frame himselfe to nothing but to rage and riddles that which the Psalmist saith of the elect Angels God shall giue his Angels charge ouer thee to keepe thee in all thy waies or which the Apostle saith They are all ministring spirits sent foorth for their sakes which shall be heires of Saluation Doth this prooue there are no Angels in heauen I troe not Their office is here to attend and defend the faithfull and yet heauen is the place of their habitation whither they repaire with vnspeakeable celeritie when their speciall seruice is finished So the diuels haue hell appointed for the place of their condemnation and thither they cary and there they torment the wicked as also they are commaunded to the deepe and chained there at Gods becke notwithstanding some of them are by Gods wisedome and patience permitted to wander in the ayre and compasse the earth to tempt the wicked to trie the godly to shew their power vpon the creatures and bewray their malice against the Church of God Wherefore the ayre and earth are the places of their seeing and assaulting vs but hell is their home to be remanded thither vpon any the least occasion when pleaseth God The griefe terror and torment of their inward confusion obscuration malediction and condemnation they alwaies beare about them and within them being no way freed or eased of that wheresoeuer they goe but they are often spared from the place of torment which is the deepe that they feare and shun and yet know they must all thither at last to be terribly and eternally plagued and punished there for all their hatefull impieties and villanies They therefore during the time of our warfare conflict with them gouerne the darkenes of this world and Rule in the Ayre yet not all nor onely there they haue their chiefe their powers and principalities and their kingdome is not diuided against it selfe yet the strength and terror of their kingdome is in hell which they neither doe will nor can forsake how fearefull soeuer the place be to themselues as well for the present paines there as for remembrance it shall be in the ende of the world their perpetuall prison when their torments shall be exceedingly increased and they not suffered to start from thence The Scriptures which I brought you say are meerely forced to prooue Hell to be beneath And why because Sheol in the Scriptures by your conceite doth no where signifie hell that Sheól is a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth the bottome whereof we know not your selfe admit Then if the wicked dead or aliue descend to this vast deepe and vnknowen gulfe in the earth whither go they I pray you to the graue or to hell To goe aliue to the graue were somewhat strange and yet the graue is no deepe nor vnknowen gulfe but to descend aliue or dead to the bottom of the earth were more stranger if hell be not ment by that gulfe in the earth And if no more be ment by descending aliue to Sheol then to fall aliue into a cleft of the earth there to die the terrible iudgement of God executed on Core and his companie for their rebellion in the sight of all Israell is vtterly cluded since to fall into a deepe well or Cole-pit and there to die is as great a punishment as they suffered and is a descending aliue to Sheol as theirs was And where is the fire of Gods wrath inflaming the foundations of the hils and burning to the bottome of Sheol is that also in your gulfe of the earth and not in hell which Moses saith is the lower Sheol And how can dead men whose carkasses either lie on the earth vnburied as the King of Babylon did or are layed in their graues descend to Sheol beneath or to the lower earth if neither of these import hell but a vast and deepe gulfe in the earth whither dead bodies neuer come this for the Situation of Sheol what say you now to the opposition of Sheol to heauen Euery opposition betweene Shammaijm the heauens or skies and Sheol doth not signifie the opposition betweene heauen and hell Shammaijm thus placed signifieth the skies not the very place of Gods heauenly glory in the presence of God which in English we call heauen When Sheol is opposed is opposed in the Scriptures to Shammaijm the ground of the opposition is either the heigth of the one and the depth of the other or the glory and felicitie in the one and destruction and miserie in the other In those three places Iob 11. vers 8. Psal. 139. vers 8. Amos 9. vers 2. the perfection presence and power of God are expressed to be higher then Shammaijm and deeper then Sheol Now doth your religion serue you to restraine any of these three to the skies and the graue and not to make them superior to the highest heauen and deeper then the lowest Sheol Shammaijm you say is the skie as well as the heauen of the blessed Shammaijm is the ayre also where birds flie as well as the skies Doe you therefore thinke it a meete comparison for the presence or power of God to say that if you clime to the top of an high steeple which standeth in the ayre the hand of God can reach you there as though it were enough for the perfection presence and power of God to reach to the skies and you were skant resolued whether you should graunt it to stretch any farder But though you cauill with Hades quarrell not with God His perfection presence and power are infinite aboue the highest heauen and beneath the deepest Sheol yea these comparisons do not match him but leade vs to those places where the most wonderfull workes of God are to which no man liuing can ascend or descend much lesse can we search or attaine to the heigth or depth of him or his perfection presence or power And this is so plainely comprised in those places that none but an irreligious and impious conceiter will doubt thereof Canst thou by searching sinke out God or trace the Alâ—…ghtic to his perfection saith the booke of Iob. the heauens are high where his glory dwelleth what canst thou doe it is deeper then Sheol how canst
their Creede yet retained the sense and meaning of them in that they were perswaded this was the law of humane necessitie without Christ that as mens bodies were buried so their soules descended to hell which descent Christ refused not to restore men as Hilarie and others auouch This you say was Ruffines owne meaning who going about to proue by the Scripture that Christ descended to Infernum sheweth that he meaneth his death hereby his buriall I suppose few men will trust you hauing tried you false so often Ruffine going about to prooue by the Scripture of the old Testament that euery part of Christes passion and his resurrection was fore-shewed in the law and the Prophets plainely distinguisheth his death buriall and descent to Hell For Christs death he saith spiritum post haec scribitur reddidisse after this it is written that hee gaue vp the Ghost This was fore spoken by the Prophet saying into thy handes I commend my spirit Sepultus quoque perhibetur He is then said to be buried For which he alleageth a place of Ieremie and addeth Euidentissima haec Sepulturae eius indicia propheticis vocibus designata sunt accipe tamen alia These most manifest signes of his buriall are expressed in the Prophets speeches and yet thou shalt haue other Where he alleageth three other places of Scripture how fitly to his purpose I need not pronounce Then commeth he to Christes descent to hell and saith Sed quód in Infernum descendit euidenter praenunciatur in Psalmis That also he descended to hell is evidently fore told in the Psalmes Now whether his places bee aptly cited or no is not to the question though you make that your whole aduantage For first they be as aptly cited as the rest Next they haue euery one of them somewhat more in Rusfines apprehension then of Christes buriall For hee standeth not onely on those wordes the dust and corruption of death but hee fastneth most on the words of descending and bringing downe in limum profundi to the mire of the deepe Which things though you flurt at as waighing light in your eyes it is certaine he intended thereby more then the graue as is euident by his owne wordes For citing the place of Peter thus In which spirit Christ descended to preach to the spirits inclosed in prison which were incredulous in the dayes of Noe he addeth in quo quid operis egerâ—…m in Inferno declaratur in which it is declared what Christ did in hell In the graue I trust Christ did nothing In Paradise he did not preach to those that were in prison disobedient in the dayes of Noe. Since then this end of Christs descent to hell is expressed by Ruffinus and this could not bee done either in the graue where nothing can be done or in heauen where these disobedients were not in prison It is cleere that Ruffinus had no such meaning as you make him by Christes descent to intend no more but his death and buriall He holdeth indeed that Christ went downe to Infernum that is to Limbus patrum as an opinion then common among them and worthie as he thought to be beleeued If hee ment this as you now confesse then he ment more by Christes descending to Infernum then Christes death and buriall And so by your owne mouth you are conuinced of a lie fathered on Ruffinus against both his words meaning And yet I find no such expresse mention or description of Limbus in Ruffines words as you would seeme to impose vpon him He mentioneth Christs conquest ouer hell quód Inferna sibi Regna 〈◊〉 that Christ would subiect the Infernali kingdome to himselfe qui mortis habebat Imperium disruptis Inferni claustris velut de profundo tractus he that had the rule of death was drawen as it were from the deepe the cloisters of hell being broken open He saith also Animabus de Inferni captiuit ate reuocatis the soules being reuoked from the captiuitie of hell but whom he thereby meaneth he expressed before with the Apostles words when he said qui simul consuscitauit nos simulque sedere fecit in caelestibus Christ raised vs vp together with himselfe and made vs sit in heauenly places with him So that if you and your friends when you prate so much against all or the most of the auncient fathers as vpholding Limbus would bethinke your selues that most of them speake indifferently as well of the liuing and yet vnborne as of the dead before Christes time when they say that soules were deliuered out of the bondage and captiuitie of hell and Satan you should doe them lesse wrong and lesse deceaue your selues then now you doe And for those fathers that indeede were of this opinion that before Christes resurrection Abrahams bosome was vnder the earth you shall doe well to thinke and speake more reuerently of them considering what master Bullingere a learned and graue Diuine resolued euen of that point Sinus Abrahae aliud non est quam portus salutis vbi autem fuerat quondaÌ„ hic locus an apud superos an apud inferos nolo pronunciare imo malo ignorare quam temere definire quodliteris sacris expressum non habeo In his vt curiosus esse nolo ita nihil desinio cum nemine super hac re contendere volo Satis mihi est intelligere fateri veteres sanctos in refrigerio loco vtique certo non in tormentis ante ascensionem Domini fuisse vt maximé ignorem vbi ille locus fuerit The bosome of Abraham is nothing els but an entrance or port of saluation Where this place formerly was whether aboue in some part of the heauens or below vnder the earth I will not pronounce Yea I had rather be ignorant thereof then roshly to define that which I find not expressed in the Scriptures In these things as I will not be curious so doe I determine nothing neither will I contend with any man about this matter It shall suffice me to vnderstand and confesse that the godly of the old Testament were in a certaine place of rest not in terments before the oscension of Christ though I know not where that place was That it was no part nor member of hell we haue S. Austins firme resolution grounding himselfe on the words which our Sauiour in the Gospell ascribeth to Abraham Betweene you and vs there is a great gulfe setlâ—…d But whether it were vnder the earth till Christs resurrection of that some fathers doubted wherein we may not be reprochfull to them though we dissent from them since the Scriptures as this great Diuine thinketh expresly decide not the question Ignatius you thinke is cleerely yours likewise one Thaddeus by Eusebius report one of the 70. disciples which the Euangelist Luke speakes of Also Athanasius Creed Ignatiâ—… saying Christ desâ—…ended to hades alone but rose againe with many meaneth euidently
you so highly esteeme is a meere counterfait You say this report of him in Eusebius by some men is counted fabulous Nay who euer since Eusebius I thinke held it for better Were there no more in it but the records of Edessa then remaining and the report of Eusebius translating the same they fairely prooue this clause of Christs descending to Hades to haue beene aunciently and openly receaued and professed in the Primatiue Church Otherwise the religious of those Ages that liued with and after Eusebius if he had vnder this pretence broched any new point of faith as in duety they were bound so no doubt they would haue resisted and refuted it But the whole Church accepting and allowing that Historie hath likewise admitted and approoued this Article of Christs descent to Hades to be a part of the Christian faith and the best learned of those times in their writings acknowledge the same And where you aske Who euer since Eusebius held it for better then a fable it is a signe how little conuersant you are in any mans labours that fit not your licentious humors Your owne Author on which you so much build Ruffinus translated these bookes of Eusebius Ierom commended them and Gelasius an auncient Bishop of Rome with a Councell confirmed them And touching this very Historie Nicephorus largely reporteth it and many of the best Historiographers before our time alleadge it not as fable but for a truth As namely Blondus Decadis 2. li. 5. Nauclerus volumine 2. generat 2. Sabellicus Enneadis 7. li. 1. Volateranus geographiae li. 11. de Sectis Syriae Martinus Polonus in Friderico 1. Platina in Lucio 2. I am not alone then in allowing Eusebius report but you rather are so headstrong and withall so ignorant that you censure all men besides your selfe It is all forged and fowly corrupted for these reasons First this writing saith that Iudas the Apostle was the same who was also called Thomas the Apostle But the Scripture it selfe sheweth that Iudas and Thomas were diuers and seuerall Apostles When you goe about to challenge a record neuer corrupt it for so you challenge your selfe and not that which you would ouerthrow The writing doth not say that those two Apostles were one as you dreame but rather obserueth that with them Thomas had two names Now what inconuenience is in this that one Apostle should haue two names or that they should call Thomas also Iudas Peter had three if not foure names Simon Cephas Peter Bar-Ionas and Iudas the brother of Iames Matthew calleth Lebbeus and Thaddeus Matthew was also called Leui. It was a thing most vsuall with the Iewes to haue two or mo names as appeareth in the genealogie of Christ rehearsed by Matthew and Luke who vse many wordes in that Catalogue no where recorded in other Scriptures And since Thom in Hebrew whence Thomas commeth doth signifie no more but a Twinne which name is common to both the brethren borne at one time it must needs be that Thomas then had an other name to distinguish him froÌ„ his brother This therfore is no iust exception to discredit that auncient Record with a thing most vsuall among the Iewes Againe with the Syriaâ—… not skilfull in the Hebrew tongue how easie a skippe was it in steed of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Iew to conceaue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iehudah which is Iudas he and Iod being letters that are often changed one from another and where the writer would haue said a Ieâ—… which was Thomas â—…nt Thaddeus so to set it downe as if it were Iehuda which was Thomas sent Thaddeus Yea the Syriack words for a Iew and Iudas 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 differ but a â—…od 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which in auncient writings is soone worne out of sight I omit other diuersitiâ—…s which might easily happen in the Greeke as that Iuâ—…as sent Thaddeus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which alâ—… Thomas did one small title added to the Article to make it the â—…uter relatiue or changing their places saying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iudas and also Thomas sent Thaddeus There is neither Greeke nor Latin Father in whose Treatises I will not readily find greater stâ—…ps This I may coniecture because Nicephorus writeth that Iudas the brother of Iames came after to the Citie of Edessa the Citie of king Abagaâ—…e which also Bede and Oecumenius doe witnesse and supplying what wanted in Thaddeus ministerie there ended his life and so might be one of those that sent him But you that thinke this so great a matter in the recordes of Edessa what say you to the Syriack translatour of the new Testament who twice calleth this Iudas the Apostle the sonne of Iames where indeed he was the brother of Iames and the Sonne of Alpheus If you will excuse him for that he neuer saw the Epistle of Iude where hee calleth himselfe the brother of Iames how great reason then is it to excuse the men of Edessa that were ignorant of the Hebrew tongue and altogether vnacquainted with the Scriptures at that time when this was written if they put he for Iod which letters are often permuted the one for the other howbeit as I first said I see no ground of any iust challenge in this that the record which is auncient importeth Thomas to be called Iudas in the place where he liued and died farre from Iewrie which was a thing very common among the Iewes in their owne countrie or Thomas to be called a Iew and thereby to distinguish him from others that were not Iewes Secondly we may probably conceiue another error that this Thaddeus one of the 70. seemeâ—…h to be mistaken in the Syrian writing for Thaddeus one of the twelue Apostles This is rather an error in you to thinke that none were called Apostles but the twelue or that Apostle doth not sometimes signifie a Messenger Christ himself is called the Apostle of our profession Paul saith to the Philippians Epaphroditus your Apostle and to the Corinthians he saith of some sent by him with Titus They are the Apostles of the Churches And to the Romanes he saluteth Andronicus and Iunia which are honorable 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the number of the Apostles He chalengeth others for transforming themselues into the apostles of Christ not that they affirmed theÌ„selues to be of the twelue for Paul himselfe was none of them but they pretended to be sent of Christ when they were not And so Christ meant when he said to the Angel of Ephesus Thou hast examined them which say they are Apostles are not that is which say I sent them when I did not Now the Syriack writer taking knowledge that Thomas was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an Apostle one of the twelue and that he sent Thaddeus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 his
vs. 132. 133 How Christ shall the second time appeare without sinne 27 How far Christs sufferings must be extended 343 How Christs soule was in his Fathers hands 549 How Christ was in Paradise the day of his death 549 How Christ was like vs in all things sinne excepted 86 How Christ might feare and yet be freed from it 486. â—…87 How Christ loosed the sorrowes of death 624 How Christ must rise from the dead 627 What Christ discerned in all his sufferings 317 What Christ vndertooke for vs. 324 What things Christ inwardly beheld in the garden 387 Why Christ might dislike the death of the body 398 The ioynt sufferings of Christ in his bodily death most auaileable for our saluation 68 Euery thing in Christ was meritorious but not satisfactorie for sinne 179. 180 Both body and soule must suffer in Christ. 130. 131 Christs bodily death part of the punishment of our sinnes 11 By Christs corporal punishment we are freed from spirituall and eternall 222. 223 Christs blood could not be shed but by Satan and his instâ—…uments 231 Christs recompence for the wrong receaued at Satans hands 232 Christs suffering without the gate of the city 113. 114 Christs death was most iust with God in respect of his will to saue vs. 262. 263 Christs death not exacted as a debt but â—…eceaued as a voluntarie sacrifice 264 Christs doings aboue mans reason 310 The nature measure and purpose of Christs sufferings 332 The paines of Christs soule as of his body were equall to the strength of his patience 334 Christs faith did not faile in the sharpest of his paines 335 All Christs sufferings were righteous and holie 344. 438 Christs words Iohn 12. auouch not contraries 482. are expounded 483 Christs senses were not ouerwhelmed with feare and sorrow 477 Christs feares and sorrowes not like the reprobates 448. 449. 450 We must not increase Christs sufferings at our pleasure 478 Christs passió did not kil his soul but his body 528 Christs conquest secureth our soules seuered from our bodies 670 Christs Soule was not tormented with Gods immediat hand 34 Christs Soule suffered but died not for vs. 133 Christ soule suffered by all her powers but not the death of the Soule 136. 137. 140 Christs Soule chiefe patient in paine and agent in merit 179 Christs Soule could not merit if it wanted vnderstanding and will 480 Christs Soule in her greatest paines did most shew the life of patience and obedience to God 524 Christs Soule was passible but died not 533 Christs Soule was not fastned to hell three daies 551 Christs Soule was in glory before his Body 669 Christs Soule liuing by grace could no way be dead 523 Neither Scriptures nor Fathers vnderstâ—…nd Christs Soule by his Body 426. 427 Christs Soule was not crucified through infirmity 510 Christâ—… Soule was not vnder the dominion of death 650 What wee must beware in the sufferings of Christs Soule 536 Many writers teach the sufferings of Christs Soule without the paines of hell 536 Why Christs Soule and not his Body was to conquere hell 668 It is not against the faith that Christes Soule should conquere hell 622 Christs manâ—…ood praied for that with all humilitie which hiâ—… person by â—…ight might haue chalenged 378 Christâ—… manhood might feare the glory of Gods iudgement 380 Christs manhood miâ—…ht feare the power of Gods wrath against our sinnes which he was to beare 380 Christs manhood might feare the sting of death as horrible to mans nature 381 Christs manhoode was to conquere hell 667. though by power of his Godhead 670 Christs flesh found no ease in death though his Soule were full of hope 424 Christs flesh was weake though his Spirite was willing 508 Christs flâ—…sh could not putrifie 623 Christs praier in the Garden was well aduised 397 Christâ—… praier was no maze 4â—…7 Christs praier was not against his Fathers will 397. 465. 466. 470. 471. 472 Christs praier was full of faith 474. 475 Christs praier was with condition and reseruation of Gods will 382 Compassion and pittie are alwaies painfull 27 Compassion is affliction though it be a vertue 438 Christ more compassiâ—…nate then Moses or Paul 359 Christs complaint on the Crosse. 409 How many senses it may beare 418. 420. 421 The first sense 416 The second sense 418 The third sense 421 The fourth sense 430 The fift sense 432 The sixt sense 433 The Saints compâ—…aint in their afflications 418 The euent of Christs coâ—…plaint on the Crosse. 419 No shame for Christ to complaine on the Crosse as he did 420 Leo maketh Christs complaint on the Crosse an instruction no lamentation 432 We were conceaued in sin before we were quickned with life 173 Mans flesh is defiled in conception before the soule is created and infused 174. 175 None can be euerlastingly condemned for anothers fault 363 Christs conquest ouer hell and death 667 was ordered most to Satâ—…ns shame 669 Contradictions obiected by the Defender are easily answered 69 Contradictions in the Defender 320 A shamefull contradiction of the Defender 423 The words of the Creed examined 648 How long this clause of Christs descent to hell hath beene in the Creede 653. 654 Hades in the Creede muâ—…t signifie hell 649 Hell in the Creede is no new translation 652 The Creede continued from the Apostles times 664 Twelue parts of the Creede â—…64 What Crâ—…sse of Christ it was that Paul so much reoiyced in 73. 74 75 How the Fathers and new writers expound that place 76. 77 How farre the Crosse of Christ extendeth it selfe by the Scriptures 79 We reioyce in the effects of Christs Crosse. 81 Christ was not voâ—…de of all comfort on the Crossâ—… 410. 411 What comfort Christ had on the Crosse. 412 The death of the Crosse the greatest exâ—…anition of Christ. 433 Christs Soule was not Crucified through infirmitie 501 Figuratiuely the Soule may be said to be Crucified 80 What Cup Christ dranke of 373 What Christ meant by the houre and Cup of his Passion 443 Christ and his members must drinke of one and the same Cup. 353 What part of the Curse Christ bare for our sinnes 234. 235 Hanging on a tree was not the whole Curse of the Law 236 A double Curse of sinne 236 Two kindes oâ—… Câ—…rses in the Law 239 The bodily death which Châ—…ist suffered was the Curse which he sustained 240 Cursing and blâ—…ssing compared doe manifest each the other 249 What is true Cursing and blessing from God 250 How Christ was made a Curse for vs. 257 Christs death was a kinde of Curse 259 Christ vndertooke to satisfie but not to suffer our Curse 260 The Curse for sinne is triple 266 Cyprian wrested by the Defender 274 D D Amnation What paines are essentiall to it 37. 39 The horror of Gods iudgements not neere the paines of the Damned 227 The Godly in this life feele not the paines of the damned 320 Sharper paines are reserued for the damned then now they feele 334 Christ was not
Defenc. pag 194. li 38. k Pag. 195. li. 1. l Defenc. pag. 195. li. 4. m li. 7. n Pag. 189. li. 31. The defender maketh three hels instead of one o Luke 8. p Iob 1. q Pag. 183. li. 25. 29. r Pag 178. li 28. s 1. Cor. 7. t Defenc. pag. 195. li. 16. u Reuel 20. v. 13. x Reuel 20. v. 12. y 13. z 1 Thess. 4. v. 16. a Beda in cap. 20. Apocalyp b August de Ciuitate Dei lib. 18. cap. â—… â—…ide Lactant. de diuino praemio li. 7. cap. 1â—… c Reuel 20. verse 11. d Andreas Câ—…sarien in 20. cap. Apâ—…c b August dâ—… ciuitate Dei lib. 20. ca. 15. f Ibidem g Primas in 20. cap. Apocalyp h Aretas in Apocalyps cap. 65. i Haymo in Apocalyp c. 2 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 k Bullinger homil 90. in Apoc. l Chytreus in 2â—… ca. Apo. de extremo Iudicio m Ibidem numero 7. de poeâ—…is Impiorum Why hades doth signifie hell in the new Testament n Defenc. pag. 195. li. 36. o Acts. 2. v 31. p Defenc. pag. 196. q Defenc. pag. 196. li. 34. What things the death of the bodie doth import r Ecclesiast 1â—… s Pag. 196. li. 33. t Defenc. pag. 197. li. 28. u li. 35. x Pag. 198. li. 1. y 4. z Ibid. li. 4. a In Apologia aduersus Ruffinâ—…m b Ruffinus in Symbolum Apost c What is meant by sitting at Gods right hand d Defenc. pag. 198. li. 11. Oleuians conectures are but weake e Defenc. pag. 198. li. 23. Hell in the Creede is no new translation f Pag. 198. li. 34. g Defenc. pag. 199. li. 3. h li. 13. i Ruffimus in Symbolum Apostolorum k Cyrill Hierosâ—…ly Catech. 4. l Chrysosi de expositione Symboli homil 2. m Augusi sermo 131. de ten pore n Idem sermo 195. o Treat paâ—… 94. li 25. p Pag. 93. li. 7. q Eusebij hist. ecclesiast lib. 1. ca. 13. r Ignatij epist. ad Trallianos s Defenc. pag. 199. li â—…8 t Innocent 3. de mysterijs Missae li 2. cap. 15. u Concil lateranens sub Innocent 3. cap. 1. de fide Catholica x Eras. in Symbolum Catechesi 4. y 9 28. Aquinas 2. 2. quest 1. Articulo a Synod Arelaten sub Carolo ca. 1. b Concil Foroiuâ—…tens in Symboio fideâ—… c Ibidem d Concilium Toleta 4 cap. 10. e Venantius in Symbolum Aposto f Defenc. pag. 199. li. 21. g Pag. 199. li. 32. â—… Pag 199. li. 38. i Defenc. pag. 200. li. 24. k Ruffinus in expositione Symboli Apost What Ruffinus meaneth by Christs descent to hell l Defenc. pag. 2. c. h 5. m 〈◊〉 in Symbol Apost n Ephes. 1. The place of Abrahams bosome vnknowen o Bullingerus in Lucae ca. 16. p q Luke 16. r Defenc pag 20. li. â—… Hades with Ignatius is not the graue s Matth. 27. t August ep 99. u 1. Cor. 1. x Colos. 1. y Euseb. Eccle. hist. li. 1. ca. 13. z Defenc. pag. 201. li. 15. a Ignat. epist. ad Trallianos b 2. Kings 13. c Iohn 11. The wall of hades neuer broken but by Christ. d Heb. 11. v. 5. e Eusebij hist. li. 1. cap. 13. f Defenc. pag. 202. li. 4. p Defenc pag. 202. q Euseb. hist. li. 1. ca. 13. i Athanas. de â—…car Christs k Ibidem l Idem in passioneâ—… crucem Domini m Ibidem n Ibidem o Ibid. p Defenc. pag. 202. li. 27. The ancient Creeds are imperfect in words q Symbolum Niceni concilij r Symbolum Constantinop s Concil t Concilium Ephes ca. 13. Aphrica ca. 104. u Epiphanius in â—…eresium Anacephalaiâ—…st x Vigilius contra 〈◊〉 li. 2. ca. 3. y Ibidem z Defenc pag. 203. li. 2. Eusebius report allowed by the best Historiographers a Hiâ—…ro de Ecclesiast Scriptoribus in Euselao b Dâ—…inct 15. Sancta Romana c Nicephor li. 2. ca. 7. d Defenc. pag. 203. li. 9. How Thomas might bee called Iudas e Galat. 2. f Acts 1. g Matth. 10. h Mark 2. i Nicephor li. 2. ca. 40. k Bedâ—… in 1. ca. Actoâ—…um l Oecumen prolegomâ—… in Acta m Luke 6. m Acts 1. n Iudae epist. o Defenc. pag. 20â—… li 16. More Apostles then twelue p Hebr. 3. q Philip. 2. r Corinth 8. s Rom. 16. t 2. Cor. 11. u Reuel 2. x Eusebij li. 1. ca. 13. y Defenc. pag. 203. li. 18. z Genes 23. vers 7. a Genes 33. b Ibid. vers 7. 6. c Exod. 11. d Exod. 18. e Lnke 10. f Galat. 4. g Philip. 2. Angels and good â—…en haue receiued the bowing of the body h Acts. 10. i Reuel 19. k Genes 19. l Reuel 3. m 1. Sam. 24. veâ—…s 9. n 1. Sam. 25. veâ—…s 23. o 2. Sam. 9. vers 6. p 2. Sam. 14. p 2. Sam. 14. q 2. Sam. 18. r 2. Sam. 24. s 1. King 1. t Eusebij li. 1. ca. 13. u Daniel 2. vers 46. x Defenc. pag. 203. 27. y Hebr â—… z Coloss 2. a â—…phes 4. b c d August in Psal. 90. e Tertull. de anima ca 55. f Cyprian de resurrectione Christs g August de tempore sermo 138. h Coloss. 2. i Ephâ—…s 4. Triumphs are not solitarie k 1. Peter 3. l Defenc. pag. 201. li. 4. Some Scriptures â—…ncertaine for a tâ—…me as well as the Creede m â—…useb ecclesiast â—…istor 3 li. ca. 25. n Ibidem li 3. ca. 4. Twelue parts of the Creed o Ambros. serm 38. p Leo epist. 13. ad Paâ—…cheriam q Hiero. â—…p 61. ad 〈◊〉 caâ—… 9. r Isâ—…orus de eâ—…lesiast offiâ—…s li. 2. ca. 3. â—…ertull de 〈◊〉 virgiâ—…us t Tertull. aduers Praxeam u Idem de praescriptionibus aduersus haereticos x Idem de velandis virginibus y Irenaeus li. 5. cap. 2. z Ib. dem li. 1. ca. 3. b Defenc. pag. 205. li. 19. b Pag 206. li. 11. c Pag. 2â—…6 li. 19. d Defenâ—… pag. 206. li. 22. e Philip. 2. Christs resurrection sheweth his conquest ouer hell and death f Defenc. pag. 205. li 32. g Hebr. 2. Christs manhoode must conquere hell h Defenc. pag. 206. li. 34. s Pag. 2â—…7 li. 26. Christ was to rise full conquerer of hell and death k Paâ—… 207. ad marginem lâ—… 31. l Defenc. pag. 207. li. 37. m Pag. 208. li. 1. Christ ordered his conquest most to Satans shame n Pag. 208. li. 15. o Pag. 208. li. 18. p Defenc. pag. 208 li. 2â—… q Defenc. pag. 208. li. 28. Christs manhood was to conquere though by power of his Godhead r s Defenc. pag. 202. li. 7. t Athanas. de incarn Christi u Cyprianus de passione Christi x Epiphanius in 80. heresium anacephalaiosi y Idem in Ancoratâ—… z August serâ—… 138. 131. a Concilium Toleta 4. ca. 10. Arelatens ca. 1. b Innocent de mysterijsmissae li. 2. ca. 50. c Durand in rationali diuinorum li. 4. rub de Symbolo d Appendix de diuersis sermo 42. e 1. Thess. 4. ver 16. f Defenc. pag. 209. li. 12. g Treat pag. 97. li. 28. h Pag. 98. li. 6. i li. 10. k li. 27. l Treat pag. 102. * Defenc. pag. 171. m Treat paâ—… 164. * Pag. 154. o Pag. 156. p Conclâ—…s pa. 3â—… q Conclus pa. 358. r Treatis pag. 156. s 159. t Zanchius in c. 2. Coloss. v. 15. u Defenc. pag. 209. li. 28. x Acta concâ—…ij Ephes. y Chalced. concilium act 5. z Constantinop concilium act 6. a Cyrill de recta fide ad Reginas li. 2. ca. quòd Christus in virtute patris resurrexit à mortâ—…is b Idem de recta fide ad Theodosium c Athanas. in â—…llud profecti in pagum inuenietâ—… pullum alligatum d Idem de incarnat Christi e Idem contra Arianos orat 2. f Defenc. pag. 209. li. 30. g Origen li. 5. in ca. 6. ad â—…ma h Hiero in ca. 12. Mattheâ—… i Zanchius in 2. ca. ad coloss k Ibidem l Defenc. pag. 210. li. 2. m Acts 20. n Defenc pag. 21â—… li. â—… o Treatis pag. 172. p Defenc. pag. 210. li. 19. The things misliked in king Edwards synod q Articuli Synodi Londâ—…nens anno 1552. r Defenc. pag. 210. li. 24. 1 Athanas. episi a 〈◊〉 â—…tum 2 Cyrill de fide ad Theodosiâ—…m 3 â—…ilar in Psal. 118. vers 82. 4 Ambros in ca. 10. ad Roma s Ezechiel 18. vers 27. s Luk. 17. v. 33. u 1. Peter 4. t 1. Peter 3. x Catechis anno 1574. pa. 70. y Deâ—…enc pag. 210. li. 31. z August contra 〈◊〉 Arrâ—…num ca. 15. a Gregorius 〈◊〉 in illâ—…d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 exiuit sâ—…guis aqua b Anselmus in Eluâ—…idario totius Christianae Tâ—…logiae c Defenc. pag. 210. li. 35.
guided to be done Heere apparantly is the hand of God named and confessed but mediate that is ordering and disposing the Iewes rage and violence according to Gods foresetled counsell Wherein the goodnesse of your iudgement and cause appeareth that when you should prooue any thing you produce places that euidently impugne your purpose With like discretion you cite that which followeth For what if God condemned that is abolished sinne in the flesh of which words I haue spoken enough before doth that imply that God punished Christes Soule or bodie with his immediate hand Small store of proofes you haue for your vpstart doctrine of God tormenting Christes soule with his immediate hand when you turne aside to texts that no way mention any such matter and prate in your pride that the word of God is flat contrarie to me p Defenc. pa. 82. li. 12. Gods owne hand then did smite Christ and inflicted on him whatsoeuer he suffered as the condemnation of sinne Well leapt From Gods hand vsing the Iewes and Gentils as his meanes to doe to Christ whatsoeuer his counsell had determined you step to Gods owne hand excluding all meanes directly against the profession of the Apostles and the whole Church with them and against the tenor of the new Testament which sharpely rebuketh the rage and wickednesse of the Iewes that put Christ to death Were you not caried with the spirit of slumber and giddinesse could you thus loosely conclude so weightie causes not onely without but against the Scriptures q Ibid. li. 16. The punishment ordained for sinne by the iustice of God and inflicted by the hand of God whatsoeuer meane it pleaseth him to vse is called the wrath of God as you acknowledge My words make as much for you as the Apostles did euen now when they expresly contradicted you but such as your cause is such is your conscience you duck and diue you care not where nor whether so you may haue a generall Phrase to beare you aboue water when you are out of breath You set your selfe to prooue that God with his immediate hand afflicted the Soule of Christ and when your proofes faile you you catch vp my words auouching r Conclus pa. 245. li. 31. the punishment ordained for sinne by Gods Iustice or inflicted on vs by Gods hand WHATSOEVER MEANE HE VSâ—… is called the wrath of God Would you hence inferre that because God vseth meanes therefore he vseth no meanes but inflicteth all punishment of sinne with his immediate hand Or because all punishments great and small on vs or on whomsoeuer come from the Souera gne power hand of God therefore God vseth no meanes Or what other absurd conceite would you collect out of my words I speake not here of the Reprobate I speake of all mankinde though you leaue out my words inflicted ON VS of purpose to serue your owne sense Neither do I say it is Gods eternall or spirituall wrath but all afflictions imposed on vs for sinne by what means soeuer are in the Scriptures called the wrath of God as I haue else where shewed albeit they tend not to damnation nor destruction What is this to Gods immediate hand punishing the Soule of Christ Or which way recall you this to the Conquest that Christ had ouer Satan and all his power wherewith you began s Defenc. pag. 82. li â—…8 Then how may we thinke Gods infinite iustice and power punished Christ You must goe by thoughts indeed and neither by warrant nor word of holy Scripture How Christ bare our sinnes in his body on the tree and gaue the same to be t Matth. 26. broken for vs and t 1. Pet. 2. his bloud to be shedde for many for the remission of sinnes we shall need no thoughts nor concerts of yours the description of his sufferings is so particularly and precisely set downe in the Scriptures that no man doubteth thereof besides you that respect moreyour secret sansies then the publike histories of the Euangelists x Defenc. pag. 82. li. 21. In his spirit certainâ—…â—…e suffered spirituall and incomprehensible punishments being no sinnes such as mens soules are subiect vnto as from God Though by no learning you can truely deriue any such thing from the Scriptures touching the tormenting of Christs soule by the immediate hand of God yet your conceit is so strong that you CERTAINLY auouch any thing For in these few words you presume more then you will prooue whiles you liue to make God with his immediate hand to afflict the soule of Christ with the same paines that the damned are tormented and other reason for it you haue none but because all power in heauen earth and hell is from God and called the hand of God By which the Scriptures doe not imply the immediate hand of God but his power working by meanes appointed and established by him In the Scriptures God is euery where proclaimed to be THE LORD OF HOSTES and therefore as there is no power in Angels Diuels Men or other creatures that cometh not from him so they are not idle armies nor lookers on but are indued with power from God as well to protect as to punish where when how and whom they shal be appointed Which the wisdome and power of God hath ordained and setled not to shorten his arme nor to weaken his strength as needing assistants but by constituting Seruants and Ministers vnder him to let men and Angels good and badde continually behold how mightie and wise righteous and glorious he is that wanteth no meanes to execute his will and yet directeth all things by his wisdome Is not God able to preferre and keepe his Saints by his word or his will without aide of others who doubteth it And yet y Psal. 91. He giueth his Angels charge ouer thee to keepe thee in all thy waies And z Psal. 34. the Angell of the Lord pitcheth round about them that feare him and deliuereth them Is he not able also to punish with his own hand to reuenge his enemies without helpe of his creatures Who denieth it that knoweth what belongeth to a God And yet Dauid praied thus against his enimies a Psal. 35. Let them be as chaffe besore thâ—…â—…nd the Angel of the Lord scatter them Let their way be darke slippery the angel of the Lord persecute them And the Psalmist describing the plagues powred out on b Psal. 78. Egypt saith God rest vpon thâ—… the fiercenesse of his anger indignation wrath vexation 〈◊〉 the senâ—…ing in of euill angels amongst them God then in this life vseth men angels to perâ—…orme his iudgements chiefly the diuel is vsed againstsinners as we may see by the Apostles â—…peech and course who deliuered hainous offenders vnto Satan as vnto the publike tormentor appointed by God to execute vengeance wherein though he were to haue power leaue from God yet execution was allotted to him The auncient
Fathers haue duely obserued so much out of the Scriptures c August ad Simpli â—…anum li. 2. quaest 1. Vâ—…itur Deus ministres eitam malis 〈◊〉 ad vindictam malorum vel ad bonorum probatioâ—…m God vseth as his ministers euill spirits saith Austen to reuenge the wicked and to trie the good Saint Ierom. d Hierony in Ioâ—…l cap. 2. Non solum homines ministri sâ—…t vltores ira eius sed etiam contrariae fortitudines quae appellantur furor ira Dei. Not onely men are Gods ministers and reuenâ—… of his wrath but also the contrarie powers which are diuels are called the wrath and displeasure of God For e 〈◊〉 as the Babiloâ—…ans punishing Ierusalem are called Gods armies so wicked angels are called Gods hosts and camps whiles they execute the Lords will I 〈◊〉 sâ—… Basile f Basil. â—… Psal. 3â—… Euill spirits which execute punishment on the wicked and the powers that serue 〈◊〉 in that sort are called the Anger and wrath of God And that this was a receaued opinion amongst Christians Ierom giueth testimonie where he saith g Hierony in 〈◊〉 cap. 30. Plâ—…rique 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 â—…am â—…uroris Domini Diabolum interpretantur cui tradimur ad puniendum The most of our men interpret the wrath of Gods furie to be the diuell to whom we are deliuered to be punished And to that end this office is assigned the diuell and his angels h Idem in 〈◊〉 cap. 30. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to mentis praepositi sunt Wicked angels are appointed to inflict or execute torments Wherefore this resolution is learnedly and truely made by Zanchius i Duâ—… ad summam sunt officia ad qua Damones omnes sunt a Deo destinati There are summarâ—…ly two offices to which all the diuels are appointed of God One that by their tentations the godly elect may be exercised in patience and humilitie and so their saluation more and more â—…urdered the other that God by them as his ministers and executioners 〈◊〉 spirituall and corporall punishments on thâ—… wicked reprobate k Ibidem Id quod maxime 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fine seculi c. Which shall most be seene in the end of the worlde when God shall perfourme that the diuels shall be tormented themselues and torment others in the place of eternall punishments You take the diuels office from him and impose it on God himselfe making him the tormentor of damned soules with his immediate hand to which incomprehensible punishments as you call them you subiect the soule of Christ on the crosse without ground or grant of holie Scripture and as if this were not desperate impreâ—… enough with obstinate impudencie you say CERTAINLY it was so l Some God himselfe immediatly inflicted some he inflicted by meanes and instruments but 〈◊〉 his hand principally which did whatsoeuer was done vnto him You told vs not twelue lines before that Gods owne hand inflicted on Christ whatsoeuer he suffered now you tell vs some God himselfe immediatly inflicted some by meanes and instruments but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The first is a notorious and presumptuous vntrueth no way 〈◊〉 by any Scripture the next is a trifling cauill or a pestilent blasphemy for 〈◊〉 you meane no more then that God was the principall 〈◊〉 and Appointer how in 〈◊〉 and his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should haue power ouer Christes bodie so God is the principall Agent not only in all the â—…usterings of Martyrs and Innocents but the supreame and 〈◊〉 Director and Disposer of all things done by angels men or diuels A thought can not rise in the heart a word can not proceed out of the mouth the hand can perforâ—… 〈◊〉 act without the power and will of the Creatour In n Acts. â—…7 him 〈◊〉 moue and 〈◊〉 â—…ur being and so haue the Angels all whose power commeth from him and 〈◊〉 him But if you meane that God by his reuealed will or publike ordinance sâ—…t the Iewes and the diuell on worke to kill his Sonne then you must either excuse them by Gods authoritie or charge God with the same iniquity o Defenc. paâ—… 82. li. 27. You can not say that Christes punishment was Gods meere and bare permission onelie What you meane by meere and bare permission I know not it proceeded I say from the 〈◊〉 kinde of will and power in God whence all the trials of his saints and deaths of his 〈◊〉 come though this were of more moment then all theirs in that it touched a greater person and tended to a greater honour then men might haue p Ibid. li. 2â—… Nay 〈◊〉 punishment was God written and reuealed will his expresse and publike ordinance and most 〈◊〉 appointment from the beginning of the world God in his written and vnwritten decrees in his publike and priuate ordinances is equally wise iust and holy that is he is alwayes like himselfe Wherefore this farre set Preface hath in it no strength to 〈◊〉 the whole 〈◊〉 of Christes sufferings to Gods immediat hand Did not God expresly by his Prophet denounce to Dauid what he would doe against 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 wise and deuouring him with the sword And yet I trust you will not impute 〈◊〉 ambition rebellion and incest to Gods immediat action What q Matth. 24. affliction and tribulation the Church shall suffer towards the end what r 2. Thess 2. strange illusions and lying wondâ—…rs shall leade them to beleeue lies that receiue not the loue of Gods trueth what s â—… Tim 4. heresie and t 2. Tim. 3. iniquitie shall abound in the latter dayes the written and reuealed will of God his expresse and publike ordinance doth appoint foretell and assure Shall we therefore ascribe all these persecutions delusions and transgressions to Gods immediat action Except you be madde you will be of another minde In decreeing ordering and effecting all these God is most iust pure and holy and yet these actions in their immediat authors perswaders and approuers are most vniust impure and vnholy Wherefore this prating of Gods meere and bare permission will nothing helpe your false and wicked collection But God you say appointed Christes sufferings from the beginning of the world As if any thing were new and lately remembred with God From the beginning of the world all his works were knowen to him little or great all are alike decreed appointed and setled with him u Defenc. pag. 82. li. 33. The whole suffering of Christ was Gods owne and most proper action Most proper is that which is more PROPER then all other or at least as proper as any If these words of yours be true then all that Christ suffered in bodie was as properly Gods action as the creation of the world the renouation of mans minde the infusion of grace the mission of the Holy Ghost and glorification of his Elect. And consequently Christ suffered nothing at the hands of men but all that is reported in the Scriptures of his outward
presumptuous follie and other shew of any matter worth the medling with you do make none c Defenc. pag. 91. li. 32. First I heartily intreat the Christian Reader to marke well and to consider how your L. doth contriue three notable equiuocations in these few words Christ suffered in his soule the wrath of God which you seeme to grant but in trueth you doe not And if we adde also the paines of hel then he opposeth a fourth fallacy against vs. And these three or foure are the only pillars of his doctrine I make no pillars of my doctrine but the manifest words of the Holy Ghost teaching vs by the Scriptures the price and maner of our redemption which lest any man should thinke I diuert and wrest to my priuate or secret conceits as you doe I shew the ancient and true Church of Christ did so beleeâ—…e them and expound them before me The pillars of your doctrine are phrases follies and falsities which if you did not hide with generall and ambiguous words the considerate Reader without intreatie would soone marke your mysteries but because you are so kinde as heartily to pray the Reader to marke how you play the man I desire him likewise to obserue how shamefully you come short of your great brags and euen betray your cause to him that well considereth it d Defenc. pag. 91. li. 37. For the three former your first equiuocation is in the word Suffered and about it wee deale in this place e Et pag. 92. li. 19. Now your next equiuocation is in this He suffered in soule Your next in Gods wrath Both which I haue plainly shewed before As also your fourth fallacie which may be called Fallacia accidentis To the three last notable equiuocations as he calleth them here is all that this Defensor speaketh in this place where he would haue thee Christian Reader so considerately to marke some maruellous matters And thus shalt thou often be troubled with his vaine tatling when thou most expectest either his proofs or his promises He sendeth thee backe to peruse his former pages where thou shalt finde as little to the purpose as here thou doest though words he wanted not to couer his conceits Is there be any thing in those pages proued by him which I haue not in the same places confuted I am content to hazzard the perill of thy censure Howbeit I thinke thou mayest perceiue by my carriage that I desire to auoid and preuent all ambiguities as much as in me lieth I speake as plainly as my simple abilitie will suffer me I distinguish thinges as euidently as either the matter permitteth or the trewth requireth And therefore he that in all his defence hath yet vttered not one distinct and cleere sentence touching his cause but clowded and cloaked with proper and meere and such like shifts and shadowes neuer expounded by himselfe and knowen to no man but himselfe hath small reason though as much in this as in the rest to say that fallacies are the Pillars of my doctrine But if thou beleeue Pedlers praising their owne wares then maiest thou credit this booke-maker craking of his cleere and Sunne-shine proofes which he himselfe neither expresseth nor vnderstandeth The equiuocation of the word SVFFERING which in this place his mastershipp will deale withall will giue thee a tast what thou shalt looke for in the rest f Defenc. pag. 92. li 1. The common and ordinarie phrase vnderstandeth herein Christes feeling of paines inflicted on him by way of PROPER punishment and satisfaction for sinne which he vndertooke for vs. Onely this in the ordinarie and vsuall manner of speach is signified by Christes suffering or his passion and so we alwaies vnderstand by it This is one of your enlightned and purified expositions which is as faire and bright as the darknes of Egypt Doe men vsually ordinarily describe Christs passion to be nothing els but the feeling of paines inflictedon him by way of proper punishment who vseth these wordes by way of proper punishment besides your selfe and your adherents who vnder that colour would secretly conuey the paines of the damned into the soule of Christ for what is the proper punishment of sinne that which all sinners not Redeemed by Christ must endure or that which all men being sinners doe endure or that which none endured but Christ alone because it was proper to the dignitie of his person with that punishment which god laied on him by the hands and mouthes of men to satisfie the iustice of God for our sinnes and vtterly to abolish the guilt and wages of our sinne Proper may be either to the damned whose sinnes are neuer pardoned or proper to sinne in all mankinde euer since the first man forsooke his Creator or proper to Christes person and not common to him with the damned Which of all these senses do you containe in the word Proper You spake euen now of equiuocations and made a grieuous complaint to your Reader that I meant to circumuent you with ambiguities and what is this but to turne your Readers eyes aside on me whiles you play your part with the maine worke of Christes passion for mans Redemption how often haue I chalenged in you this shifting with proper and improper when and where pleased you Christes sufferings in all mens speeches saue yours were farre larger than his passion He suffered afliction all the time of his life yea the whole course of his life was a continuall suffering of reproches disdaines dispites besides the naturall infirmities of our flesh as hunger cold wearines weeping and such like which in his person were all sufferings and yet no man calleth his life his passion his passion we take to be the manner of his death and so all his sufferings from the Garden to the graue imposed on him by the hands mouthes or harts of men betraying forsaking or pursuing him were parts of his passion The false accusing and vniust condemning him the mocking reproching and reuiling him to be wicked and forsaken of God were parts of his passion and yet these were no inherent nor sensible paines of which you would seeme to speake when you exclude his affections of feare and griefe of minde as no parts of his passion g Defenc. pag. 91. li. 6. You cunningly take another rare sense of this word as it signifieth the affections of the mind in Christ wholy bent to holines and obedience of god you are a learned Squire that doe not vnderstand the soule suffereth as well by her affections as by her senses and that in Christ the harts and tongues of the Iewes concurred to his passion as well as their hands The affections and perturbations of the soule are vsually and properly called by the Greeke fathers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and by the Latine passiones passions or sufferings of the minde The Apostles applie the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 SVFFERINGS both in Christ and in vs as euenly and
as often to feare sorowes rebukes reproches losses and such like griefs of minde as to stripes and other violences profered to the body Manifest proofes thereof are euery where occurrent in the Scriptures h Heb. 10 v. 32 Remember the former dayes sayth the Apostle to the Hâ—…brewes wherein you sustained 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a great conflict of sufferings partly whiles ye were made a spectacle with reproches and troubles partly whiles you did communicate with them that were so vsed 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for you had a ioynt feeling of my bands and receiued with ioy the spoiling of your goods Yet had they i Hebr. 12. not as yet resisted vnto bloud by striuing against sinne So Peter k 1. Pet. 4. Wherein you communicate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with the sufferings of Christ reioyce that in the reâ—…elation of his glorie you may be glad and ioyfull If you be reproched for the name of Christ blessed are you and the spirit of glorie resteth on you And againe l 1. Pet. 2. This is thanks with God if a man for conscience to God endure sorrowes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 suffering vniustly Pauls afflictions which he calleth his infirmities euen as he sayth m 2. Cor 13. Christ was crucified through infirmitie are reckened in many places by himselfe amongst which are n 2. Cor. 6. Reproch infamy want sorow feare of o 11. danger o 11. care affection and o 11. zeale for others o 11. weakened or o 11. offended whereby it may be seene what was meant by the words of Christ touching Pauls sufferings p Acts 9. I will shew him how many or how great things he shall suffer for my name and by his owne I reioyce q Coloss. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in my sufferings for you Yea not only feare and sorow of minde which are the painfnll affections of our nature but euen corporall affections though naturall were sufferings in Christ. Damascene writing of the naturall and innocent yet painfull passions and sufferings which Christ tooke vnto him sayth r Damascen orthodoxae fidei li. 3. ca. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 naturall and innocent passions or sufferings are those what soeuer which entred into mans life by the condemnation of the first transgression as hunger thirst wearinesse labour weeping vexation declination of death feare agonie and such like which are naturally in all men These all Christ tooke vnto him that he might sanctifie all And how can it be otherwise since the soule feeleth paine and griefe as well by her vnderstanding and will as by her senses and that in other mens dangers and troubles where loue and pittie preuaile with vs no lesse then in our owne s August de ciuitate Dei li. 14. ca. 6. what is feare and sorrow sayth Austen but the will dissenting from those things which displease vs and generally according to the varietie of things which are desired or shunned as the will is pleased or offended so is it changed aâ—…d turned into these or those affections Then as nature teacheth vs to feare our owne dangers foreseene by sense or vnderstanding and to sorrow for our present miseries or losses so loue teacheth vs to do the like in other mens harmes either present or approching whose persons the more we embrace their perils and ouerthrowes the more we lament Now he that is t De ciuitate Dâ—…i li. 12. â—…a 16. affected suffereth sayth Austen Neither are the violences offered to the bodie called paines but because the soule by nature disliketh them howsoeuer by faith she may be content to endure them for Gods cause and so the impressions of feare and sorrow in that they are painfull they are sufferings of the soule though charitie perswade them in other mens troubles or necessitie impose them in our owne cases or pietie raise them in respect of God u Psal. 51. A broken heart and contrite spirit is it not a suffering because it is a sacrifice vnto God x Philip. 2. Workâ—… your saluation sayth the Apostle with feare and trembling Are these no sufferings because they tend to saluation y Matth. 5. Blessed are you when men reproch you and pursue you and speake all euill against you falsly for my sake Reioice and be glad for great is your reward in heauen so pursued they the Prophets before you This is a great blessednes and yet a great suffering of minde to be reuiled and slandered and therefore holinesse in Christ as in the Saints did not exclude but rather commend and aduance Christes sufferings z Dâ—…fenc pag. 92. li. 12. Speake plainly I beseech you and deceiue vs not Call not this his soules suffering but his â—…oules holines and righteousues I call that SVFFERING in Christ which was painefull and grieuous vnto him though withall it were righteous and holy a Matth. 11. Blessed are they that suffer persecution for Righteousnes Shall it be no persecution or no suffering All Christes sufferings were rigâ—…teous and holy by reason the cause is righteous and holy for which the godly do suffer and their patience and submission to god in their troubles are dueties of holines all sufferings in Christ were most righteous and holy for in them he shewed not only voluntarie patience and obedience but innocence also Doth this make his stripes woundes or death to be no sufferings because he b 1. Pet 3. Suffered the iust for the vniust Deceaue not your selfe and I see no man els that goeth about to beguile you I speake not of those workes of piety and charitie which Christ performed to God and man with ioy and delight I speake of those infirmities temptations and affections which were grieuous and painfull vnto him though the suffering and enduring thereof were most religious and righteous in him And you that seuer his holinesse and righteousnesse from his sufferings as if he were defiled and accursed with them lewdlie abuse both the word of God and faith of Christ which containe no such thing c Defenc. pag. 92. li. 10. Christes exact and perfect keeping of Gods iust law and his sufferings are two parts of Christes mediation greatly differing and ought not both in trueth be called his passion or satisfaction for sinne His passion I call the things suffered at or about the time of his death because not the instant of breathing out his soule but the whole order and maner of comming to his death after his last supper is by the Scriptures inclosed in the name of his death and by all sober and aduised writers called his Passion or suffering of death His whole life besides was full of sufferings and euen those naturall infirmities of hunger thirst wearinesse and such like were voluntarie sufferings in him because he had power enough in himselfe to represse or exclude those punishments inâ—…licted for sinne on our nature and
this as a part of the Creede in his time for that he doth not set it in the right place where it should be but putteth it after the Resurrection Howbeit Erasmus might haue suspected that some other had changed Aquinas order as well as augmented Aquinas worke For it is euident that Aquinas in his summe of Diuinitie acknowledgeth that Article of Christs descent to hell to come from the Apostles and numbereth it in the 4. place before the Resurrection of Christ from the dead And this reason he giueth why it was not mentioned in the Creedes of the Fathers because no heresie was then risen about that point and therefore they still presupposed it as foredetermined in the Apostles Creede And yet there want not Councels and Fathers declaring and confirming this to be a part of the Catholike and Christian faith The Councell of Orleance kept in the 46. yeere of Charles the great in the profession of their faith say thus Descendit ad Inferos he descended to hell to deliuer the Saints which there were held deuictóque mortis Imperio and subduing the kingdome of death rose againe concluding also thus this is the faith of the Catholike Church this confession we keepe and hold The Councell of Foroiulij otherwise called Aquileia in which Citie Ruffinus that expoundeth the Creede was a Presbyter made this exposition of the Creede in the time of Carolus Martellus and Pipine his Sonne Father to Charles the great In Eadem dignatus est mori sepeliri ad Inferos descendere tertia dei resurgere In the same humane nature Christ vouchsafed to die to be buried to descend to hell to rise againe the third day Which they close with this attestation This most sincere puritie of the Catholike faith we will all degrees of the Church distinctly to learne and commit to memorie it a vt ne vnus quidem apex intermittatur vel augeatur so that not one the least point of it be omitted or encreased The 4. Councell of Toledo in the time of Sisenandus King of Spaine about 630. yeeres after Christ made the same profession word for word which the Councell of Orleance did after imitate Christ descended to hell to deliuer the Saints which there were held and subduing the kingdome of death rose againe Venantius Bishop of Poictiers in France that dedicated some of his poems to Gregorie the first commenting on the Apostles Creede distinctly rehearsed the Article descendit ad Infernum he descended to hell among the rest and saith farder of it but descending to hell Christ suffered no iniurie for that he did it in respect of his mercie As if a King should enter a prison not to be there held himselfe but to loose such as were guiltie We can not see but that whensoeuer whosoeuer put it first into this place they signified thereby it seemeth that Christ went to Limbus a place vnder the earth where they imagined the blessed Patriarkes rested When this clause was first inserted into the Creede no man can directly pronounce Some places had it not for a time and some had it aunciently transmitted from the first founders of their Churches which being duely considered by the rest that wanted it and the Article on euery side confessed to be true it was at length generally receaued throughout the Church not as a thing newly deuised by themselues but formerly commended to many Churches euen from their first erection Thaddeus Ignatius and Athanasius haue these very words yet say they not any where that they were in that set forme of the Apostles Creede which we now haue If Thaddeus deliuered it to the Church of Edessa at the first preaching of the faith vnto them and they kept a record thereof in the publike monuments of their Citie to the time of Eusebius why should it not be counted and calle a part of the Apostles Creede that is of the short and plaine forme of the faith deliuered to the people when they first receaued the Gospell of Christ And how should Ignatius Athanasius and all the auncient Fathers both Greeke and Latine throughout the world light on the same words in effect agnise them for a point of Christian faith if sundry Churches had not retained that Article in the Summarie confession of their faith euen from the beginning Ruffine alleageth truely these words descendit ad Inferna but not out of any example of the Apostles Creede yea he expresly denyeth it to be therein any where at that time Cyrill and Chrysostom expound these words as parts of the common Creede receaued in their Churches and called Apostolike because it was descended from the Apostles times Ruffine doth the like for the Church of Aquileia where he was a Presbyter he setteth downe these words as a part of the common Creede which he expoundeth and nameth Apostolike And here for triall of your truth and modestie if you know what those things meane I referre my selfe to the printed Copies of Cyprians and Ieroms works where this exposition is extant whether these words crucifixus sub Pontio Pilato sepultus descendit ad Inferna He was crucified vnder Pontius Pilate and buried he descended to hell be not expresly set downe as a part of the Creede which Ruffine expoundeth and calleth Apostolike The Copies printed at Bafile by Frobenius and at Lyons by Gryphius 1537 at Basile by Heruagius 1540 at Antuerpe by Crinitus and at Paris by Stephan Petit. 1541 seuer these words with an halfe moone from Ruffinus explication as they doe the rest of the Creede Those printed at Rome by Paulus Manutius 1563 at Antuerpe by Stelsius 1561 by Peter Bellerus 1589 and by Iohn de Preux 1593. at Paris by Sebastian Niuellius 1603. distinguish them by greater or different letters from the rest So that your denying them to be part of the Creede which Ruffine bringeth for Apostolike is a manifest mentirie As you peruert Ruffines wordes so you doe his meaning For he doth not say that Christes descent to hell was all one with his buriall but where the Churche of Rome with some others wanted those wordes he descended to hell yet with them the effect thereof was contained in the word buried And no maruaile that the Church of Rome for that he chiefly noteth by the Latin word sepultus extended the word buriall to hell since they did and to this day doe follow the olde Latine translation of the Bible Luke 16. where it is written the rich man was buried in hell It was an easie matter therefore for them by Christs buriall to vnderstand his descent to hell since as they thought they found the word so farre extended in the Scriptures And graunt that Ruffine and others of the auncients as you affirme did thinke it consequent as an effect to Christs buriall that his soule did descend to hell what prooue you by this but against your selfe that such as had not those wordes expressed in