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scripture_n apostle_n call_v place_n 2,419 5 4.2706 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A87231 The Quakers quaking: or, the foundation of their deceit shaken, by scripture, reason, their own mouthes at several conferences. By all which will appear, that their quaking, ministery, doctrine, and lives, is a meer deceit, and themselves proved to be the great impostors of these latter times: / by Jeremiah Ives. Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674. 1656 (1656) Wing I1103; Thomason E883_3; ESTC R207296 36,620 64

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the_o thirteen_o error_n be_v that_o james_n nayler_n say_v error_n 13_o error_n that_o none_o can_v come_v to_o god_n nor_o christ_n but_o they_o that_o come_v to_o perfection_n see_v naylers_n book_n call_v love_n to_o the_o lose_a pag._n 23._o if_o this_o be_v true_a paul_n be_v not_o come_v to_o god_n nor_o christ_n for_o he_o say_v phil._n 3.12_o not_o as_o though_o i_o have_v already_o attain_v or_o be_v already_o perfect_n and_o in_o the_o seven_o of_o the_o roman_n the_o same_o apostle_n say_v once_o and_o again_o that_o sin_n do_v dwell_v in_o he_o and_o do_v not_o christ_n call_v sinner_n to_o come_v unto_o he_o
question_n be_v a_o man_n or_o else_o he_o be_v not_o of_o age_n to_o understand_v that_o universals_z do_v include_v all_o particular_n of_o their_o species_n and_o yet_o these_o be_v the_o man_n that_o witness_v perfection_n let_v i_o tell_v thou_o reader_n whoever_o thou_o be_v that_o these_o man_n be_v the_o sad_a spectacle_n of_o god_n spiritual_a judgement_n that_o ever_o any_o age_n have_v hear_v of_o and_o sure_o if_o ever_o any_o people_n be_v give_v up_o to_o believe_v a_o lie_n these_o be_v the_o man_n for_o be_v it_o ever_o hear_v of_o that_o a_o man_n shall_v profess_v to_o be_v immediate_o send_v of_o god_n and_o to_o be_v infallible_o guide_v by_o he_o and_o to_o have_v attain_v to_o perfection_n as_o these_o will_v have_v it_o and_o yet_o not_o know_v common_a sense_n what_o think_v you_o if_o after_o paul_n have_v tell_v the_o athenian_n act_n 17._o that_o god_n do_v give_v to_o all_o life_n and_o breath_n if_o afterward_o he_o shall_v ask_v the_o areopagite_n 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i_o have_v say_v be_v justify_v be_v that_o though_o they_o say_v they_o own_o the_o scripture_n and_o will_v talk_v a_o few_o word_n sometime_o in_o their_o behalf_n yet_o one_o of_o they_o say_v in_o a_o book_n call_v truth_n defence_n pag._n 2._o in_o answer_n to_o parson_n camelford_n of_o stavely-chappel_n that_o he_o may_v as_o well_o have_v condemn_v the_o scripture_n to_o the_o fire_n to_o be_v burn_v as_o his_o quares_n that_o be_v send_v unto_o he_o or_o that_o he_o may_v as_o well_o have_v say_v the_o say_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n be_v absurd_a as_o to_o say_v those_o quares_n be_v absurd_a they_o mean_v his_o quaeres_fw-la be_v give_v forth_o by_o the_o same_o spirit_n the_o scripture_n be_v a_o four_o instance_n of_o their_o inconsistency_n be_v that_o one_o william_n tomlinson_n in_o a_o book_n of_o his_o call_v a_o word_n of_o reproof_n p._n 11._o do_v blame_v the_o minister_n for_o pray_v before_o or_o after_o sermon_n and_o say_v what_o do_v christ_n or_o 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the_o heathen_a god_n that_o they_o may_v the_o better_a effect_n their_o deceit_n as_o for_o instance_n one_o of_o they_o namely_o farnworth_n be_v charge_v by_o hen_n haggar_n and_o tho_n pollard_n for_o say_v paul_n be_v not_o convert_v when_o be_v speak_v those_o word_n in_o the_o 7_o to_o the_o roman_n where_o be_v cry_n out_o of_o a_o body_n of_o death_n to_o this_o they_o answer_v in_o a_o print_a book_n call_v scripture_n free_v from_o scandal_n pag._n 12_o &_o 13._o that_o there_o be_v not_o such_o a_o affirmative_a in_o the_o whole_a book_n now_o mark_v the_o charge_n be_v a_o negative_a proposition_n viz._n that_o paul_n be_v not_o convert_v when_o he_o speak_v those_o word_n in_o the_o 7_o of_o the_o roman_n concern_v a_o body_n of_o death_n they_o answer_v that_o there_o be_v not_o such_o a_o affirmative_a in_o the_o whole_a book_n reader_n have_v these_o word_n fall_v from_o the_o mouth_n of_o a_o man_n that_o be_v conscious_a of_o his_o imperfection_n charity_n will_v 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in_o stead_n of_o affirmative_n and_o affirmative_n in_o stead_n of_o negative_n how_o can_v they_o have_v be_v for_o our_o learning_n upon_o who_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n be_v come_v i_o dare_v challenge_v all_o man_n in_o the_o world_n either_o quaker_n atheist_n or_o anti-scripturalist_a to_o show_v i_o such_o a_o piece_n of_o nonsense_n from_o any_o of_o the_o penman_n of_o old_a who_o be_v inspire_v by_o the_o holy_a spirit_n who_o will_v believe_v that_o these_o man_n tongue_n and_o pen_n be_v infallible_a oracle_n that_o know_v not_o i_o from_o no_o and_o that_o put_v nay_o in_o stead_n of_o yea_o for_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o he_o be_v charge_v for_o say_v paul_n be_v not_o convert_v and_o he_o say_v there_o be_v no_o such_o affirmative_a in_o his_o whole_a book_n but_o than_o it_o seem_v there_o be_v such_o a_o negative_a and_o if_o so_o then_o how_o dare_v they_o call_v those_o honest_a servant_n of_o christ_n liar_n viz._n h_n haggar_n and_o though_o pollard_n by_o this_o you_o may_v see_v that_o these_o be_v the_o great_a seducer_n that_o these_o latter_a time_n have_v produce_v and_o the_o lord_n grant_v that_o these_o thing_n that_o i_o do_v bring_v to_o thy_o mind_n concern_v they_o may_v be_v as_o warning_n to_o you_o that_o stand_v to_o take_v heed_n leave_v you_o fall_v and_o you_o that_o know_v god_n delight_v to_o glorify_v he_o leave_v he_o give_v you_o over_o to_o a_o reprobate_a mind_n to_o do_v the_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o convenient_a take_v heed_n there_o fore_o and_o be_v warn_v of_o turn_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n into_o a_o lie_n as_o these_o man_n have_v do_v leave_v god_n in_o his_o justice_n give_v you_o up_o to_o believe_v
because_o i_o have_v purge_v thou_o and_o thou_o be_v not_o purge_v that_o be_v as_o if_o god_n have_v say_v i_o have_v do_v that_o which_o be_v sufficient_a for_o thy_o purgation_n and_o the_o like_a in_o joh._n 1.29_o christ_n be_v call_v the_o lamb_n of_o god_n that_o take_v away_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n though_o he_o that_o believe_v not_o shall_v die_v in_o his_o sin_n the_o meaning_n than_o must_v not_o be_v that_o every_o man_n have_v his_o sin_n pardon_v in_o like_a manner_n then_o when_o the_o same_o pen_n say_v that_o as_o he_o take_v away_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n ver_fw-la 29._o so_o he_o do_v inlighten_v every_o one_o that_o come_v into_o the_o world_n ver_fw-la 9_o which_o be_v as_o much_o as_o if_o he_o have_v say_v jesus_n christ_n by_o his_o bless_a mediation_n have_v do_v that_o which_o be_v able_a to_o effect_v pardon_n of_o sin_n for_o the_o world_n and_o which_o also_o be_v able_a to_o inlighten_v and_o inform_v the_o world_n into_o the_o knowledge_n of_o it_o how_o then_o do_v this_o text_n prove_v that_o every_o man_n have_v this_o light_n within_o he_o any_o more_o than_o the_o other_o text_n prove_v every_o man_n sin_n be_v take_v away_o the_o latter_a of_o which_o themselves_o will_v not_o allow_v but_o further_a if_o every_o man_n have_v receive_v this_o light_n joh._n 1._o then_o every_o man_n have_v receive_v christ_n for_o he_o be_v that_o light_n ver_fw-la 9_o but_o every_o man_n have_v not_o receive_v christ_n ergo._n the_o minor_a i_o prove_v from_o the_o 11_o ver_fw-la of_o the_o same_o chapter_n he_o come_v to_o his_o own_o and_o his_o own_o receive_v he_o not_o and_o the_o builder_n be_v say_v to_o refuse_v he_o matth._n 21.42_o and_o many_o other_o place_n but_o if_o they_o shall_v think_v to_o be_v relieve_v at_o this_o turn_n with_o this_o distinction_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o have_v the_o light_n and_o another_o thing_n to_o receive_v it_o then_o i_o demand_v if_o this_o light_n be_v not_o receive_v how_o can_v it_o be_v in_o all_o man_n unless_o they_o be_v bear_v with_o it_o second_o whether_o man_n have_v any_o thing_n but_o what_o they_o have_v receive_v according_a to_o i_o cor._n 4.7_o especial_o any_o light_n or_o knowledge_n of_o jesus_n christ_n last_o whether_o the_o scripture_n do_v make_v a_o distinction_n between_o a_o man_n have_v the_o spirit_n of_o christ_n or_o the_o light_n of_o christ_n within_o he_o and_o his_o receive_n christ_n and_o receive_v of_o the_o spirit_n within_o he_o or_o in_o his_o heart_n as_o the_o apostle_n phrase_n it_o rom._n 8._o but_o to_o proceed_v do_v not_o the_o scripture_n say_v john_n 11.10_o that_o he_o that_o walk_v in_o the_o dark_a stumble_v because_o there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o he_o and_o isa_n 8.20_o if_o they_o speak_v not_o according_a to_o this_o rule_n it_o be_v because_o there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o they_o and_o yet_o these_o say_v every_o man_n in_o the_o world_n have_v the_o light_n within_o he_o speak_v of_o john_n 1._o which_o light_n be_v christ_n three_o in_o opposition_n to_o another_o of_o their_o error_n i_o shall_v prove_v that_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n be_v not_o past_a which_o i_o prove_v thus_o if_o the_o heaven_n and_o the_o earth_n be_v reserve_v to_o the_o fire_n of_o that_o judgement-day_n then_o be_v it_o not_o pass_v already_o but_o the_o heaven_n and_o the_o earth_n be_v reserve_v to_o the_o fire_n of_o that_o day_n therefore_o that_o day_n be_v not_o pass_v already_o the_o major_n be_v unquestionable_a for_o if_o they_o be_v yet_o keep_v from_o the_o fire_n of_o that_o day_n and_o be_v reserve_v to_o the_o fire_n of_o it_o than_o it_o follow_v that_o none_o bathe_v see_v that_o day_n because_o the_o heaven_n have_v not_o feel_v the_o heat_n of_o it_o the_o minor_a be_v prove_v out_o of_o 2_o pet._n 3.7_o again_o if_o the_o day_n of_o the_o perdition_n of_o the_o ungodly_a be_v not_o past_a than_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n be_v not_o but_o the_o day_n of_o the_o perdition_n of_o the_o ungodly_a be_v not_o therefore_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n be_v not_o again_o if_o in_o that_o day_n all_o must_v give_v account_n of_o the_o deed_n do_v in_o the_o body_n and_o there_o be_v thousand_o and_o ten_o thousand_o that_o have_v not_o give_v a_o account_n than_o it_o follow_v that_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n be_v not_o past_a but_o there_o be_v thousand_o and_o ten_o thousand_o that_o have_v not_o give_v a_o account_n of_o the_o deed_n do_v in_o the_o body_n therefore_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n be_v not_o pass_v already_o again_o if_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n be_v pass_v already_o than_o the_o resurrection_n be_v pass_v already_o but_o the_o resurrection_n be_v not_o pass_v already_o ergo._n the_o major_a i_o prove_v from_o john_n 5.29_o the_o minor_a i_o prove_v thus_o in_o the_o resurrection_n they_o neither_o marry_v nor_o give_v in_o marriage_n but_o now_o man_n do_v both_o therefore_o they_o be_v not_o in_o the_o resurrection_n four_o they_o say_v there_o be_v no_o baptism_n but_o that_o of_o the_o spirit_n in_o opposition_n to_o which_o i_o do_v affirm_v a_o baptism_n with_o water_n which_o i_o prove_v from_o mark_n 16.16_o and_o matth._n 28.19_o 7._o 28.19_o act_n 2.38_o 41._o &_o 8.3_o 6._o &_o 10.4_o 7._o and_o that_o the_o baptism_n here_o command_v be_v waterbaptism_n it_o appear_v by_o what_o i_o have_v already_o say_v by_o way_n of_o reply_n to_o this_o notion_n also_o the_o scripture_n tell_v we_o heb._n 6._o of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o baptism_n and_o whereas_o it_o be_v object_v that_o the_o scripture_n tell_v we_o of_o one_o lord_n and_o one_o baptism_n i_o answer_v first_o this_o be_v not_o exclusive_a for_o there_o be_v lord_n many_o yet_o he_o say_v there_o be_v but_o one_o lord_n jesus_n so_o in_o like_a manner_n we_o read_v of_o divers_a baptism_n as_o of_o water_n and_o affliction_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n yet_o there_o be_v but_o one_o proper_o so_o call_v to_o wit_n that_o of_o water_n and_o the_o other_o be_v metaphorical_a baptism_n five_o that_o the_o lord_n christ_n do_v administer_v bread_n and_o wine_n in_o token_n of_o his_o bloodshedding_n and_o bodybreaking_n which_o they_o deny_v this_o i_o prove_v from_o mai._n 26.27_o 28._o where_o christ_n do_v use_v both_o bread_n and_o wine_n upon_o that_o occasion_n and_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v so_o appear_v from_o 1_o cor._n 11.23_o where_o he_o say_v that_o that_o which_o he_o receive_v of_o the_o lord_n he_o do_v deliver_v unto_o they_o how_o that_o christ_n when_o he_o be_v betray_v take_v bread_n and_o ver_fw-la 25._o in_o like_a manner_n say_v the_o apostle_n he_o take_v the_o cup_n when_o he_o have_v sup_v etc._n etc._n all_o which_o show_n that_o bread_n and_o wine_n be_v institute_v by_o christ_n and_o practise_v by_o the_o primitive_a christian_n in_o remembrance_n of_o the_o die_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n six_o that_o civil_a honour_n and_o respect_n be_v due_a to_o some_o person_n more_o than_o other_o which_o they_o deny_v first_o from_o the_o child_n to_o the_o father_n as_o exod._n 20.12_o eph._n 6.2_o second_o from_o the_o wise_a to_o the_o husband_n eph._n 5.33_o and_o 1_o pet._n 3.6_o sarah_n obey_v abraham_n and_o call_v he_o lord_z three_o this_o be_v due_a from_o servant_n to_o their_o master_n 1_o tim._n 6.1_o let_v as_o many_o servant_n as_o be_v under_o the_o yoke_n count_v their_o master_n worthy_a of_o all_o honour_n etc._n etc._n four_o it_o be_v due_a from_o young_a solk_n to_o the_o age_a levit._n 19.32_o thou_o shall_v rise_v up_o before_o the_o boary_a head_n and_o honour_v the_o face_n of_o the_o old_a man_n and_o fear_v thy_o god_n or_o as_o beza_n have_v it_o thou_o shall_v honour_v the_o person_n of_o the_o old_a man_n five_o this_o respect_n be_v due_a to_o person_n in_o authority_n as_o not_o only_o the_o apostle_n exhort_v i_o pat._n 2.17_o but_o as_o paul_n himself_o practise_v as_o i_o have_v say_v when_o he_o call_v festw_n most_o noble_a and_o our_o lord_n christ_n note_v the_o unjust_a judge_n for_o one_o that_o do_v not_o reverence_v man_n luke_n 18.2_o and_o yet_o the_o quaker_n make_v it_o a_o note_n of_o their_o infallible_a ministry_n that_o they_o do_v not_o reverence_v man_n when_o christ_n make_v it_o a_o character_n of_o a_o wicked_a man_n this_o be_v urge_v by_o james_n nayler_n at_o the_o bull_n and_o mouth_n near_o aldersgate_n viz._n that_o their_o not_o respect_v person_n be_v a_o sign_n they_o be_v immediate_o send_v of_o god_n as_o i_o have_v already_o mind_v again_o be_v not_o jacob_n a_o faithful_a man_n and_o do_v not_o the_o scripture_n say_v that_o he_o call_v esau_n lord_n gen._n 32.18_o gen._n 33.13_o
the_o flesh_n to_o this_o i_o do_v reply_v say_v that_o i_o have_v hear_v it_o report_v that_o the_o quaker_n shall_v deny_v christ_n to_o be_v bear_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n but_o i_o never_o hear_v it_o from_o any_o of_o their_o mouth_n before_o which_o say_v i_o tell_v ja_n nayler_n be_v contrary_a to_o these_o express_a scripture_n rom._n 1.3_o where_o it_o be_v say_v that_o christ_n be_v make_v of_o the_o seed_n of_o david_n according_a to_o the_o flesh_n and_o rom._n 9.5_o of_o who_o as_o concern_v the_o flesh_n christ_n come_v who_o be_v over_o all_o god_n bless_v for_o over_o and_o gal._n 4.4_o christ_n be_v make_v of_o a_o woman_n etc._n etc._n and_o act_v 2.30_o james_n nayler_n see_v this_o be_v a_o broad-faced_a piece_n of_o heresy_n be_v willing_a to_o cover_v it_o with_o the_o fig-leaf_n of_o this_o distinction_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n for_o christ_n to_o be_v bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n and_o another_o thing_n to_o be_v bear_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n to_o this_o i_o reply_v that_o the_o scripture_n make_v no_o such_o distinction_n for_o when_o moses_n do_v all_o thing_n according_a to_o the_o pattern_n show_v he_o in_o the_o mount_n heb._n 8.5_o do_v but_o compare_v it_o with_o the_o command_n in_o exod._n 5.40_o and_o you_o will_v find_v that_o god_n bid_v moses_n look_v that_o he_o make_v thing_n after_o the_o fashion_n show_v he_o in_o the_o mount_n now_o may_v not_o a_o man_n as_o well_o say_v that_o moses_n do_v not_o do_v thing_n after_o the_o pattern_n because_o the_o scripture_n say_v he_o do_v it_o according_a to_o the_o pattern_n as_o this_o man_n may_v say_v christ_n be_v not_o bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n because_o the_o scripture_n say_v he_o be_v bear_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n therefore_o let_v i_o ask_v one_o question_n whether_o a_o man_n may_v not_o as_o well_o say_v that_o moses_n do_v not_o all_o thing_n after_o the_o pattern_n because_o the_o scripture_n say_v he_o do_v all_o thing_n according_a to_o the_o pattern_n as_o say_v that_o christ_n be_v not_o bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n because_o the_o scripture_n say_v he_o be_v bear_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n but_o further_a that_o you_o may_v see_v that_o there_o be_v no_o place_n for_o this_o distinction_n about_o the_o case_n in_o hand_n do_v but_o take_v notice_n that_o beza_n render_v the_o text_n in_o gal._n 4.29_o where_o it_o be_v say_v that_o abraham_n have_v a_o son_n bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n etc._n etc._n sed_fw-la quemadmodum_fw-la tunc_fw-la be_v qui_fw-la secundum_fw-la carnem_fw-la word_n for_o word_n with_o rom._n 1.3_o i_o mean_v by_o word_n for_o word_n so_o far_o as_o concern_v the_o case_n in_o hand_n viz._n that_o it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o deny_v christ_n to_o be_v bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n as_o it_o be_v to_o deny_v he_o to_o be_v bear_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n and_o therefore_o where_o it_o be_v say_v that_o christ_n be_v bear_v according_a to_o the_o flesh_n in_o that_o place_n of_o the_o roman_n before-cited_n beza_n likewise_o render_v it_o de_fw-fr filio_fw-la svo_fw-la facto_fw-la ex_fw-la semine_fw-la davidis_fw-la secundum_fw-la carnem_fw-la so_o that_o these_o man_n you_o see_v be_v force_v to_o take_v sanctuary_n at_o any_o vain_a distinction_n that_o may_v keep_v the_o world_n from_o see_v into_o the_o bottom_n of_o their_o design_n which_o be_v indeed_o to_o deny_v christ_n to_o be_v make_v flesh_n or_o to_o be_v come_v in_o the_o flesh_n for_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o to_o say_v that_o he_o be_v not_o bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n this_o be_v the_o sum_n of_o the_o last_o conference_n with_o some_o additional_a answer_n that_o i_o have_v not_o then_o liberty_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o confusion_n that_o be_v among_o they_o to_o give_v in_o at_o that_o time_n and_o lest_o any_o shall_v think_v that_o these_o word_n be_v such_o as_o may_v fall_v from_o he_o in_o haste_n or_o unadvised_o about_o his_o deny_v christ_n be_v bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n and_o therefore_o i_o ought_v not_o to_o insist_v so_o much_o upon_o they_o let_v i_o tell_v thou_o reader_n whoever_o thou_o be_v that_o for_o more_o surety_n when_o i_o be_v go_v away_o i_o do_v ask_v the_o question_n again_o whether_o he_o do_v believe_v christ_n be_v bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n or_o whether_o he_o do_v deny_v it_o he_o answer_v that_o he_o do_v deny_v christ_n be_v ever_o bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n and_o so_o do_v another_o of_o their_o proselyte_n the_o same_o day_n in_o the_o afternoon_n before_o hundred_o of_o people_n at_o a_o private_a meeting_n in_o beech-lane_n who_o when_o the_o sermon_n be_v end_v stand_v up_o and_o oppose_v what_o be_v then_o and_o there_o deliver_v and_o withal_o do_v say_v that_o he_o do_v deny_v that_o christ_n be_v bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n now_o what_o be_v this_o less_o then_o to_o deny_v christ_n come_v in_o the_o flesh_n which_o be_v a_o antichristian_a doctrine_n 1_o joh._n 4.3_o and_o the_o same_o john_n say_v that_o whosoever_o shall_v deny_v christ_n come_v in_o the_o flesh_n be_v a_o deceiver_n 2_o joh._n 7._o for_o many_o deceiver_n be_v enter_v into_o this_o world_n which_o confess_v not_o that_o jesus_n christ_n be_v come_v in_o the_o flesh_n he_o be_v a_o deceiver_n and_o a_o antichrist_n and_o if_o these_o man_n be_v not_o such_o deceiver_n i_o know_v not_o what_o deceit_n be_v therefore_o let_v every_o one_o in_o the_o fear_n of_o god_n try_v the_o spirit_n of_o these_o man_n and_o see_v if_o this_o which_o have_v fall_v from_o their_o mouth_n do_v not_o prove_v they_o to_o be_v what_o i_o have_v say_v of_o they_o and_o the_o lord_n give_v you_o understanding_n in_o all_o thing_n vale._n finis_fw-la