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scripture_n answer_v church_n know_v 2,837 5 4.2097 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A91884 A moderate answer to Mr. Prins full reply to certaine observations on his first twelve questions: vvherein all his reasons and objections are candidly examined and refuted. A short description of the congregationall way discovered. Some arguments for indulgence to tender consciences modestly propounded. By the same author. Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665.; Robinson, Henry, 1605?-1664?, attributed name. 1645 (1645) Wing R1676; Thomason E26_20; ESTC R13022 43,033 54

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church_n be_v a_o particular_a congregation_n of_o saint_n have_v power_n of_o censure_n within_o themselves_o and_o exercise_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n now_o this_o antiquity_n prove_v to_o be_v in_o the_o primitive_a time_n even_o many_o year_n after_o the_o apostle_n but_o suppose_v the_o contrary_a that_o there_o can_v not_o any_o such_o footstep_n of_o this_o way_n be_v find_v in_o antiquity_n yet_o have_v we_o no_o ground_n to_o think_v it_o be_v not_o true_a great_a be_v the_o apostasy_n of_o the_o church_n from_o the_o apostle_n doctrine_n that_o truth_n have_v be_v lose_v for_o a_o long_a time_n among_o the_o most_o it_o be_v a_o great_a mercy_n that_o since_o that_o defection_n from_o the_o pure_a way_n of_o christ_n to_o antichrist_n there_o have_v be_v any_o glimmering_n of_o light_n preserve_v any_o in_o secret_a that_o may_v worship_v he_o after_o his_o own_o mind_n that_o any_o thing_n have_v be_v refine_v and_o restore_v to_o its_o primitive_a institution_n 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not_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n etc._n etc._n to_o which_o i_o answer_v what_o if_o the_o command_n be_v repugnant_a to_o direct_v consequence_n of_o scripture_n though_o not_o against_o any_o express_a text_n and_o what_o if_o a_o man_n think_v it_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n must_v a_o man_n obey_v it_o that_o which_o to_o i_o be_v repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n be_v my_o sin_n if_o i_o do_v it_o beside_o what_o if_o it_o shall_v be_v repugnant_a either_o you_o must_v say_v the_o magistrate_n can_v command_v nothing_o repugnant_a to_o the_o word_n and_o therefore_o must_v be_v obey_v or_o else_o a_o man_n must_v see_v it_o in_o his_o own_o judgement_n not_o to_o be_v repugnant_a before_o he_o can_v obey_v it_o god_n forbid_v a_o tittle_n of_o the_o power_n god_n have_v give_v magistrate_n shall_v be_v take_v from_o they_o yet_o i_o will_v thing_n be_v so_o state_v that_o christ_n may_v not_o lose_v his_o prerogative_n master_v prin_fw-mi in_o his_o other_o twelve_o query_n and_o the_o latter_a end_n of_o this_o labour_v to_o persuade_v the_o parliament_n that_o these_o who_o he_o call_v independent_o be_v against_o the_o power_n of_o parliament_n on_o purpose_n to_o make_v they_o odious_a in_o their_o eye_n but_o let_v that_o honourable_a assembly_n know_v that_o what_o ever_o power_n the_o principle_n of_o presbytery_n will_v give_v they_o the_o congregationall_a way_n will_v give_v much_o more_o neither_o have_v the_o parliament_n true_a friend_n than_o they_o who_o will_v be_v more_o willing_a to_o venture_v their_o life_n and_o sacrifice_v all_o they_o have_v for_o they_o only_o this_o be_v desire_v by_o they_o which_o they_o know_v be_v the_o desire_n of_o that_o honourable_a assembly_n that_o the_o right_n and_o liberties_n christ_n have_v purchase_v by_o his_o own_o precious_a blood_n and_o leave_v the_o saint_n as_o his_o last_o legacy_n may_v not_o be_v take_v away_o by_o the_o secular_a power_n as_o that_o the_o secular_a power_n may_v not_o 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the_o meeting_n of_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n who_o separate_v themselves_o etc._n etc._n though_o your_o passion_n will_v not_o yet_o your_o charity_n may_v have_v give_v we_o better_a language_n you_o and_o your_o party_n be_v very_o full_a of_o these_o term_n though_o you_o nor_o they_o ever_o define_v what_o schism_n or_o heresy_n be_v we_o desire_v and_o challenge_v you_o to_o tell_v we_o what_o heresy_n we_o have_v broach_v in_o these_o conventicle_n in_o what_o fundamental_n do_v we_o differ_v from_o you_o which_o be_v heresy_n what_o act_v against_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n can_v you_o manifest_v against_o we_o what_o treason_n have_v we_o plot_v against_o the_o parliament_n in_o our_o meeting_n shall_v i_o call_v you_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_a etc._n etc._n because_o your_o judgement_n be_v presbyterial_a will_v you_o take_v it_o well_o the_o lord_n learn_v you_o meekness_n and_o a_o more_o sober_a spirit_n not_o to_o tax_v so_o high_o and_o slander_v so_o insufferable_o unless_o you_o make_v it_o out_o that_o we_o be_v such_o to_o the_o eight_o he_o say_v i_o answer_v negative_o and_o well_o i_o may_v my_o first_o answer_n be_v that_o the_o national_a church_n of_o the_o jew_n can_v be_v a_o pattern_n for_o we_o now_o because_o the_o covenant_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v not_o make_v with_o any_o one_o particular_a nation_n but_o to_o all_o in_o every_o nation_n that_o believe_v you_o have_v no_o promise_n nor_o prophesy_v of_o any_o nation_n to_o be_v holy_a to_o god_n but_o the_o jew_n when_o they_o shall_v be_v call_v again_o to_o which_o he_o reply_v 1._o that_o the_o independent_o have_v not_o the_o least_o precept_n or_o example_n for_o a_o solemn_a covenant_n but_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o church_n of_o the_o israelite_n and_o that_o no_o private_a congregationall_a but_o public_a national_a covenant_n prescribe_v by_o the_o supreme_a temporal_a magistrate_n and_o assembly_n yea_o the_o principal_a precept_n and_o precedent_n for_o sanctify_v the_o sabbath_n public_a or_o private_a fast_n you_o likewise_o derive_v from_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o that_o church_n why_o shall_v not_o therefore_o their_o national_a church_n be_v a_o pattern_n for_o we_o etc._n etc._n to_o which_o i_o answer_v first_o for_o the_o covenant_n we_o hold_v not_o that_o such_o a_o formal_a covenant_n constitute_v a_o church_n this_o be_v enough_o that_o there_o be_v a_o union_n whether_o by_o covenant_n explicit_a or_o implicit_a or_o consent_n that_o be_v certain_a the_o union_n be_v moral_a as_o all_o other_o must_v be_v that_o constitute_v a_o policy_n yet_o for_o that_o he_o say_v there_o be_v no_o precept_n or_o pattern_n but_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o a_o covenant_n it_o be_v answer_v second_o that_o its_o ground_n enough_o for_o such_o a_o practice_n the_o covenant_n not_o be_v ceremonial_a but_o moral_a and_o that_o which_o of_o necessity_n go_v to_o such_o a_o constitution_n it_o do_v not_o constitute_v the_o church_n as_o national_a but_o as_o a_o church_n indeed_o the_o covenant_n be_v national_a because_o the_o church_n be_v so_o but_o that_o be_v accidental_a it_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o covenant_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v national_a that_o do_v accedere_fw-la to_o it_o as_o it_o constitute_v such_o a_o policy_n and_o the_o same_o or_o which_o be_v equivalent_a must_v constitute_v a_o particular_a church_n the_o same_o formal_a constitution_n that_o be_v in_o that_o church_n as_o a_o church_n must_v be_v in_o every_o church_n also_o and_o though_o the_o dispensation_n in_o church_n be_v different_a yet_o the_o same_o constitutive_a principle_n remain_v in_o all_o for_o that_o he_o say_v the_o principal_a precept_n for_o a_o sabbath_n and_o fast_n we_o take_v out_o of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o therefore_o why_o shall_v not_o their_o 〈…〉_o church_n be_v a_o pattern_n for_o we_o to_o imitate_v as_o well_o as_o their_o national_a covenant_n sabbath_n etc._n etc._n i_o answer_v we_o keep_v the_o sabbath_n only_o as_o it_o be_v a_o moral_a precept_n in_o the_o decalogue_n not_o as_o peculiar_a to_o the_o jew_n for_o where_o there_o be_v any_o ceremonialnesse_n in_o it_o as_o the_o seven_o day_n it_o be_v change_v among_o we_o and_o for_o fast_n there_o be_v as_o great_a equity_n that_o when_o we_o have_v displease_v god_n we_o shall_v solemn_o humble_v ourselves_o before_o he_o but_o that_o the_o church_n be_v nationall_n be_v mere_o accidental_a and_o he_o may_v as_o well_o argue_v and_o it_o will_v as_o right_o follow_v that_o there_o must_v be_v but_o one_o visible_a church_n in_o all_o the_o world_n and_o that_o one_o nation_n as_o the_o jew_n be_v for_o if_o he_o argue_v from_o one_o part_n which_o be_v accidental_a he_o must_v argue_v from_o another_z that_o be_v so_o likewise_o beside_o if_o this_o be_v a_o property_n of_o a_o church_n that_o it_o be_v national_a then_o there_o be_v no_o church_n but_o what_o be_v national_a if_o that_o do_v convenire_fw-la to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n as_o a_o church_n that_o it_o be_v national_a than_o it_o do_v so_o unto_o every_o church_n and_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v that_o there_o be_v but_o that_o one_o church_n in_o the_o world_n then_o therefore_o there_o be_v but_o one_o now_o many_o such_o absurdity_n will_v necessary_o follow_v such_o a_o argument_n to_o that_o that_o i_o say_v that_o the_o covenant_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v make_v with_o no_o particular_a nation_n but_o with_o every_o one_o in_o every_o nation_n that_o believe_v and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o prophecy_n or_o promise_v of_o any_o one_o nation_n to_o be_v convert_v but_o the_o jew_n he_o answer_v that_o this_o reason_n be_v both_o absurd_a and_o false_a the_o covenant_n extend_v not_o only_a to_o particular_a person_n but_o to_o all_o nation_n etc._n etc._n and_o for_o this_o he_o quote_v many_o scripture_n in_o the_o margin_n the_o sum_n of_o which_o be_v contain_v in_o psal_n 2._o 8._o ask_v of_o i_o and_o i_o will_v give_v thou_o the_o heathen_a for_o thy_o inheritance_n and_o the_o utmost_a part_n of_o the_o earth_n for_o thy_o possession_n and_o that_o in_o esay_n 2._o 2_o 3._o the_o mountain_n of_o the_o lord_n shall_v be_v exalt_v on_o the_o top_n of_o the_o mountain_n and_o all_o nation_n shall_v flow_v to_o it_o therefore_o god_n have_v make_v a_o covenant_n with_o particular_a nation_n to_o be_v church_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v 1._o that_o if_o these_o text_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v so_o jesus_n christ_n never_o have_v a_o church_n since_o the_o dissolution_n of_o the_o jewish_a state_n for_o there_o have_v be_v no_o nation_n in_o the_o world_n yet_o whole_o give_v to_o christ_n none_o that_o may_v be_v call_v a_o holy_a nation_n as_o yet_o that_o prophecy_n be_v not_o fulfil_v what_o may_v be_v hereafter_o i_o know_v not_o second_o you_o may_v as_o well_o say_v that_o the_o covenant_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v make_v with_o all_o 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