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scripture_n admit_v church_n holy_a 2,216 5 4.9585 4 false
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A87879 An answer to the Marques of Worcester's last paper; to the late King. Representing in their true posture, and discussing briefly, the main controversies between the English and the Romish Church. Together with some considerations, upon Dr Bayly's parenthetical interlocution; relating to the Churches power in deciding controversies. To these is annext, Smectymnuo-Mastix : or, short animadversions upon Smectymnuus in the point of lyturgie. / By Hamon L'Estrange, Esqr. L'Estrange, Hamon, 1605-1660. 1651 (1651) Wing L1187; Wing L1191; Thomason E1218_2; ESTC R202717 68,906 120

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censure_n of_o the_o romish_a church_n and_o his_o lordship_n hope_v to_o prove_v it_o out_o of_o scripture_n if_o you_o neglect_v to_o hear_v this_o church_n you_o shall_v be_v a_o heathen_a and_o a_o publican_n matth._n 18._o 17._o this_o church_n in_o the_o marquis_n his_o sense_n be_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o i_o grant_v it_o be_v but_o not_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n only_o for_o it_o be_v as_o well_o the_o english_a the_o french_a the_o geneva_n or_o any_o other_o particular_a church_n and_o admit_v it_o be_v only_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n yet_o the_o matter_n wherein_o that_o church_n be_v to_o be_v obey_v be_v not_o article_n of_o faith_n neither_o the_o very_a text_n tell_v we_o it_o be_v only_o in_o point_n of_o scandal_n and_o breach_n of_o unity_n in_o civil_a matter_n his_o next_o scripture_n be_v ephes._n 5._o 27._o where_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v present_v unto_o christ_n a_o glorious_a church_n not_o have_v spot_n or_o wrinkle_n here_o be_v a_o church_n 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be_v the_o rule_n of_o faith_n 5._o and_o after_o he_o tell_v you_o why_o it_o must_v be_v so_o because_o a_o rule_n must_v be_v certain_a and_o know_v for_o if_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a it_o be_v no_o rule_n and_o if_o not_o know_v it_o be_v no_o rule_n to_o we_o now_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o certain_a or_o more_o know_v than_o the_o scripture_n compare_v the_o marquis_n his_o infallible_a rule_n of_o tradition_n with_o this_o say_n of_o bellarmine_n and_o it_o will_v appear_v they_o have_v little_a of_o a_o rule_n in_o they_o for_o certain_o what_o be_v more_o uncertain_a when_o the_o primitive_a church_n itself_o within_o a_o hundred_o year_n after_o the_o apostolical_a time_n be_v split_v into_o that_o great_a schism_n about_o the_o celebration_n of_o easter_n which_o be_v but_o a_o mere_a tradition_n and_o be_v not_o reconcile_v till_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a and_o for_o be_v know_v nothing_o be_v less_o see_v in_o the_o very_a church_n of_o rome_n they_o be_v not_o yet_o agree_v which_o be_v apostolical_a tradition_n part_n the_o scripture_n he_o urge_v be_v rom._n 12._o 6._o and_o there_o be_v a_o rule_n of_o faith_n i_o grant_v and_o a_o infallible_a one_o too_o thom._n but_o it_o be_v not_o praeter_fw-la beside_o nor_o extra_fw-la without_o the_o scripture_n but_o that_o mention_v in_o the_o scripture_n gal._n 6._o 16._o there_o be_v a_o rule_n but_o a_o rule_n of_o doctrine_n concerning_o christian_a liberty_n in_o the_o point_n of_o circumcision_n no_o rule_n of_o faith_n rom._n 6._o 17._o there_o be_v neither_o rule_n nor_o faith_n but_o a_o form_n of_o doctrine_n deliver_v to_o they_o by_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o gospel_n what_o he_o urge_v out_o of_o 2_o cor._n 10._o 12_o 16._o be_v so_o extreme_o and_o gross_o impertinent_a as_o sure_o when_o he_o cast_v his_o eye_n upon_o that_o place_n his_o lordship_n be_v either_o enter_v into_o or_o new_o raise_v from_o such_o a_o nap_n wherein_o the_o doctor_n find_v he_o m._n but_o lest_o we_o 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et_fw-la scripturas_fw-la sine_fw-la periculo_fw-la exponunt_fw-la these_o preserve_v our_o faith_n and_o expound_v the_o scripture_n without_o peril_n of_o error_n etc._n observe_v first_o it_o be_v high_a these_o man_n who_o be_v so_o near_o the_o apostle_n as_o they_o be_v instruct_v by_o those_o who_o be_v contemporary_n with_o they_o as_o himself_o say_v then_o again_o it_o be_v exponunt_fw-la they_o do_v expound_v not_o that_o they_o be_v infallible_a or_o can_v expound_v otherwise_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n 1600_o year_n after_o christ_n irenaeus_n be_v full_a enough_o in_o this_o point_n and_o pointblank_o against_o the_o marquis_n a_o 63._o to_o expound_v scripture_n decord_v to_o scripture_n be_v the_o true_a way_n and_o least_o perilous_a as_o for_o tertullian_n his_o meaning_n be_v thus_o make_v out_o b_o ib._n the_o heretic_n with_o who_o the_o church_n be_v to_o dispute_v do_v not_o receive_v all_o scripture_n for_o canonical_a and_o those_o they_o do_v receive_v entire_a they_o do_v not_o or_o if_o entire_a they_o feign_v strange_a interpretation_n of_o their_o own_o fancy_n and_o a_o corrupt_a sense_n prejudice_v truth_n as_o much_o as_o a_o corrupt_a text_n be_v they_o accuse_v for_o vitiate_a and_o falsify_v the_o text_n or_o for_o introduce_v absured_a exposition_n they_o retort_v the_o same_o charge_n upon_o their_o adversary_n in_o this_o case_n of_o malicious_a obstinacy_n the_o church_n have_v only_o this_o remedy_n to_o provoke_v they_o to_o declare_v who_o found_v their_o church_n for_o if_o it_o appear_v they_o be_v the_o apostle_n there_o be_v no_o more_o to_o be_v say_v it_o be_v in_o those_o day_n c_o ib._n constat_fw-la and_o evidence_n enough_o of_o truth_n that_o their_o church_n be_v of_o apostolical_a foundation_n as_o for_o vincentius_n have_v speak_v before_o of_o the_o perfection_n of_o scripture_n with_o a_o satis_fw-la superque_fw-la that_o it_o be_v all-sufficient_a and_o to_o spare_v he_o suppose_v it_o may_v be_v demand_v what_o need_n be_v there_o then_o of_o the_o church_n sense_n to_o which_o he_o answer_v because_o all_o man_n understand_v it_o not_o in_o one_o sense_n and_o alike_o therefore_o it_o be_v necessary_a say_v he_o that_o the_o line_n of_o interpretation_n be_v direct_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o catholic_a and_o ecclesiastical_a sense_n now_o what_o be_v intend_v by_o a_o catholic_a sense_n be_v the_o question_n the_o papist_n will_v have_v it_o to_o be_v tradition_n unwritten_a but_o we_o say_v it_o be_v that_o which_o the_o universal_a church_n have_v always_o hold_v for_o vincentius_n explain_v his_o catholic_a to_o be_v that_o a_o 3._o which_o always_o everywhere_o and_o of_o all_o man_n have_v be_v believe_v and_o this_o rule_n we_o willing_o admit_v in_o point_n essential_a where_o variety_n and_o different_a sense_n be_v inconsistent_a but_o in_o other_o point_n of_o less_o concernment_n we_o say_v with_o saint_n augustin_n b_o exponatur_fw-la if_o any_o thing_n be_v set_v down_o in_o sacred_a scripture_n more_o obscure_o as_o a_o exercise_n for_o the_o mind_n of_o believer_n it_o be_v commendable_a if_o it_o be_v interpret_v many_o way_n provide_v no_o way_n absurd_o m._n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n christ_n bid_v we_o do_v and_o observe_v whatsoever_o they_o bid_v we_o who_o sit_v in_o moses_n seat_n matth._n 23._o 2._o therefore_o there_o be_v something_o more_o to_o be_v observe_v than_o scripture_n true_o it_o be_v to_o be_v observe_v that_o his_o lordship_n here_o take_v observe_v and_o do_v to_o be_v matter_n of_o faith_n which_o i_o never_o read_v in_o scripture_n nor_o anywhere_o else_o 22._o but_o be_v we_o to_o do_v whatsoever_o they_o bid_v we_o who_o sit_v in_o moses_n seat_n sure_o no_o if_o they_o have_v any_o commission_n it_o be_v not_o great_a than_o that_o of_o moses_n be_v nat._n and_o his_o be_v after_o the_o tenor_n of_o the_o word_n deliver_v he_o in_o the_o mount_n exod._n 34._o 27._o and_o therefore_o christ_n say_v in_o vain_a you_o worship_v i_o teach_v for_o doctrine_n the_o commandment_n of_o man_n mat._n 15._o 9_o will_v you_o not_o as_o well_o believe_v what_o you_o hear_v christ_n say_v as_o what_o you_o hear_v his_o minister_n write_v yes_o sure_a and_o much_o more_o for_o what_o christ_n say_v be_v truth_n itself_o believe_v it_o i_o must_v but_o what_o his_o minister_n write_v be_v many_o time_n erroneous_a and_o then_o credat_fw-la judaeus_n apella_n non_fw-la ego_fw-la believe_v it_o who_o will_v for_o i_o their_o commission_n be_v all_o thing_n which_o i_o have_v command_v you_o hom._n m._n we_o say_v the_o scripture_n be_v not_o easy_a to_o be_v understand_v you_o say_v they_o be_v our_o church_n say_v it_o be_v full_a as_o well_o of_o low_a valley_n plain_a way_n and_o easy_a for_o every_o man_n to_o walk_v in_o as_o also_o of_o high_a hill_n and_o mountain_n which_o few_o man_n can_v climb_v unto_o and_o this_o the_o marquis_n in_o a_o manner_n grant_v p._n 129._o say_v it_o be_v easy_a in_fw-la aliquibus_fw-la but_o not_o in_fw-la omnibus_fw-la locis_fw-la in_o some_o place_n not_o everywhere_o m._n we_o say_v this_o church_n can_v err_v you_o say_v it_o can_v what_o his_o lordship_n mean_v by_o this_o church_n we_o may_v demand_v 79._o have_v he_o not_o tell_v we_o at_o first_o to_o what_o church_n he_o will_v lead_v his_o majesty_n and_o that_o be_v the_o romish_a church_n of_o which_o our_o church_n make_v no_o bone_n to_o say_v it_o have_v err_v not_o only_o in_o live_v 19_o and_o matter_n of_o ceremony_n but_o also_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n here_o she_o be_v i_o confess_v somewhat_o bold_a with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n than_o the_o marquis_n be_v with_o his_o majesty_n but_o perhaps_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o she_o be_v not_o infallible_a may_v err_v in_o her_o
weak_a finite_a and_o err_a man_n still_o their_o canon_n be_v no_o article_n of_o faith_n their_o decree_n no_o infallible_a rule_n not_o so_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n i_o be_o assure_v by_o the_o confession_n of_o both_o side_n augustine_n be_v to_o dispute_v with_o maximinus_n his_o first_o demand_n be_v dic_fw-la mihi_fw-la fidem_fw-la rehearse_v to_o i_o thy_o faith_n the_o subtle_a heretic_n suppose_v augustine_n will_v urge_v the_o nicene_n creed_n against_o he_o reply_v i_o believe_v as_o the_o council_n of_o ariminum_n believe_v but_o find_v after_o that_o augustine_n will_v not_o take_v this_o for_o a_o answer_n say_v further_a i_o do_v not_o plead_v the_o council_n of_o ariminum_n to_o excuse_v my_o opinion_n but_o to_o show_v the_o authority_n of_o the_o father_n who_o according_a to_o scripture_n deliver_v to_o we_o a_o confession_n of_o faith_n which_o they_o have_v out_o of_o the_o scripture_n augustine_n perceive_v maximinus_n let_v go_v the_o council_n of_o ariminum_n be_v resolve_v to_o stand_v as_o little_a upon_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a but_o close_v with_o he_o thus_o neither_o ought_v i_o to_o produce_v the_o council_n of_o nice_a against_o thou_o nor_o thou_o that_o of_o ariminum_n against_o i_o i_o be_o not_o bind_v to_o the_o authority_n of_o this_o nor_o thou_o of_o that_o let_v we_o in_o our_o conflict_n urge_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n witness_v indifferent_a to_o both_o and_o not_o peculiar_a to_o either_o see_v here_o the_o orthodox_a and_o heretic_n both_o compromise_n to_o abide_v the_o order_n of_o scripture_n and_o both_o wave_n the_o authority_n and_o judgement_n of_o two_o general_a counsel_n which_o certain_o they_o will_v not_o have_v do_v have_v they_o repute_v they_o infallible_a and_o a_o judge_n not_o infallible_a shall_v rule_v no_o faith_n of_o i_o but_o the_o doctor_n tell_v we_o page_n 79._o his_o society_n of_o man_n must_v be_v such_o as_o can_v say_v it_o seem_v good_a unto_o we_o and_o to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n now_o doctor_n you_o speak_v to_o the_o point_n indeed_o that_o society_n of_o man_n that_o church_n will_v i_o fain_o see_v but_o be_v you_o well_o advise_v what_o you_o say_v if_o yea_o than_o it_o must_v seem_v good_a to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n because_o so_o to_o we_o whereas_o the_o first_o form_n if_o he_o ever_o promise_v to_o be_v there_o with_o infallible_a assistance_n i_o dare_v take_v his_o word_n for_o it_o but_o have_v it_o to_o the_o holy_a ghost_n first_o and_o then_o to_o we_o but_o assign_v the_o holy_a ghost_n what_o place_n you_o please_v if_o he_o be_v there_o it_o be_v all_o i_o look_v for_o and_o i_o will_v not_o take_v you_o unless_o you_o show_v i_o that_o promise_n which_o hitherto_o you_o have_v not_o do_v but_o we_o will_v not_o part_v so_o neither_o admit_v for_o once_o you_o find_v the_o church_n you_o so_o hunt_v for_o and_o a_o spirit_n of_o infallibility_n direct_v she_o in_o that_o council_n must_v and_o will_v all_o controversy_n present_o cease_v certain_o no_o such_o matter_n for_o may_v not_o perverse_a spirit_n wrest_v to_o their_o own_o destruction_n what_o the_o holy_a ghost_n shall_v declare_v in_o a_o general_n council_n as_o well_o as_o what_o he_o have_v deliver_v in_o the_o sacred_a scripture_n do_v not_o the_o nestorian_n vouch_v for_o their_o heresy_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a as_o general_a a_o council_n and_o as_o much_o endow_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n as_o ever_o any_o since_o that_o of_o jerusalem_n be_v or_o i_o believe_v shall_v be_v nor_o do_v i_o speak_v only_o of_o what_o the_o malice_n of_o satan_n sow_v tare_n and_o man_n crooked_a and_o untoward_a will_n a_o soil_n proper_a for_o they_o may_v produce_v for_o the_o holy_a ghost_n speak_v in_o a_o manner_n signanter_fw-la and_o express_o there_o must_v be_v notwithstanding_o such_o assistance_n controversy_n still_o for_o if_o there_o must_v be_v heresy_n there_o will_v be_v without_o controversy_n 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