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&_o 12._o 6._o that_o be_v year_n it_o be_v a_o very_a familiar_a thing_n to_o put_v day_n for_o year_n in_o prophetical_a write_n but_o if_o the_o church_n may_v be_v obscure_v for_o three_o year_n why_o not_o for_o thirty_o yea_o three_o hundred_o do_v christ_n in_o his_o suppose_a promise_n of_o perpetual_a visibility_n in_o the_o church_n make_v a_o exception_n for_o these_o three_o year_n i_o trow_v not_o and_o tell_v i_o i_o pray_v you_o shall_v you_o live_v till_o that_o time_n when_o antichrist_n shall_v prevail_v and_o your_o religion_n no_o less_o than_o we_o be_v obscure_a and_o invisible_a if_o any_o of_o the_o follower_n of_o antichrist_n shall_v dispute_v against_o you_o that_o you_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n because_o not_o visible_a will_v you_o grant_v it_o pop._n god_n forbid_v i_o shall_v be_v so_o wicked_a to_o deny_v my_o mother_n and_o church_n because_o of_o her_o affliction_n prot._n then_o i_o see_v you_o yourselves_o do_v not_o believe_v this_o to_o 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church_n what_o if_o the_o record_n of_o these_o thing_n by_o the_o injury_n of_o time_n be_v lose_v and_o their_o original_n leave_v in_o obscurity_n shall_v i_o therefore_o say_v it_o be_v now_o become_v no_o heresy_n i_o beseech_v you_o answer_v i_o free_o this_o question_n suppose_v i_o can_v bring_v plain_a and_o strong_a evidence_n from_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o from_o ancient_a tradition_n or_o the_o unanimous_a testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n that_o your_o doctrine_n of_o merit_n for_o instance_n be_v a_o heresy_n your_o doctrine_n of_o worship_v image_n be_v idolatry_n and_o that_o you_o be_v in_o divers_a particular_n apostatise_v from_o that_o faith_n which_o the_o scripture_n and_o father_n do_v own_o in_o this_o case_n will_v you_o not_o confess_v that_o you_o be_v guilty_a of_o idolatry_n heresy_n and_o apostasy_n pop._n if_o it_o be_v so_o and_o you_o can_v real_o bring_v as_o you_o false_o pretend_v you_o can_v but_o indeed_o can_v any_o such_o solid_a proof_n i_o must_v and_o will_v confess_v it_o for_o all_o our_o writer_n agree_v that_o although_o we_o must_v believe_v many_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o scripture_n yet_o we_o must_v believe_v nothing_o contrary_a to_o the_o scripture_n nor_o to_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o ancient_a father_n prot._n very_o well_o hence_o than_o i_o gather_v that_o the_o only_a question_n between_o you_o and_o i_o be_v whether_o we_o can_v evident_o and_o solid_o prove_v the_o particular_n now_o mention_v which_o if_o we_o can_v do_v as_o i_o be_o satisfy_v our_o minister_n have_v do_v you_o be_v convict_v in_o your_o own_o conscience_n and_o will_v confess_v yourself_o and_o your_o church_n guilty_a of_o heresy_n idolatry_n and_o apostasy_n whether_o i_o can_v tell_v the_o manner_n or_o time_n or_o author_n of_o this_o doctrine_n or_o no._n therefore_o leave_v these_o frivolous_a and_o impertinent_a question_n let_v i_o hear_v what_o you_o have_v to_o say_v more_o against_o 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to_o be_v the_o scripture_n only_o prot_n i_o be_o glad_a you_o have_v fall_v upon_o so_o material_a a_o point_n the_o decide_n whereof_o may_v make_v other_o dispute_n in_o great_a part_n useless_a tell_v i_o then_o what_o you_o have_v to_o say_v against_o this_o doctrine_n pop._n i_o will_v urge_v four_o argument_n against_o it_o 1._o scripture_n have_v no_o authority_n over_o we_o but_o from_o the_o church_n 2._o you_o can_v know_v what_o book_n be_v the_o holy_a scripture_n or_o part_n of_o it_o but_o by_o the_o church_n report_n 3._o if_o neither_o of_o these_o be_v true_a yet_o scripture_n be_v not_o a_o sufficient_a rule_n for_o your_o faith_n without_o tradition_n 4._o if_o it_o be_v sufficient_a yet_o it_o be_v so_o obscure_a that_o you_o can_v know_v the_o sense_n of_o it_o without_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o church_n you_o see_v here_o be_v a_o fourfold_a cord_n which_o you_o will_v find_v be_v not_o easy_o break_v prot._n make_v these_o thing_n good_a and_o i_o 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this_o case_n our_o doctor_n use_n and_o i_o stand_v by_o they_o in_o it_o they_o allege_v for_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n the_o testimony_n of_o all_o age_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o person_n the_o miracle_n wrought_v for_o it_o acknowledge_v even_o by_o the_o enemy_n of_o it_o the_o martyrdom_n that_o so_o many_o thousand_o and_o many_o of_o they_o wise_a and_o learned_a man_n do_v run_v upon_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o they_o who_o live_v so_o near_o the_o time_n of_o the_o write_n of_o they_o be_v best_a able_a do_v discern_v the_o truth_n and_o the_o wonderful_a power_n that_o go_v along_o with_o they_o in_o convince_a convert_v and_o comfort_v or_o terrify_v sinner_n prot._n do_v you_o believe_v these_o be_v solid_a argument_n
the_o command_n and_o usage_n of_o the_o roman_a and_o universal_a inquisition_n at_o best_a it_o seem_v i_o must_v not_o obey_v christ_n command_n of_o search_v the_o scripture_n unless_o the_o bishop_n give_v i_o leave_v but_o i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o do_v your_o people_n use_v to_o ask_v and_o the_o bishop_n to_o give_v they_o leave_v to_o read_v the_o bible_n pop._n i_o will_v not_o dissemble_v with_o you_o they_o do_v not_o and_o the_o truth_n be_v a_o approve_a writer_n of_o we_o ledesima_n put_v the_o question_n what_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v come_v to_o the_o bishop_n and_o desire_v liberty_n to_o read_v the_o bible_n and_o that_o with_o a_o good_a intention_n to_o which_o he_o reply_v that_o the_o bishop_n shall_v answer_v he_o in_o the_o word_n of_o christ_n matt._n 20._o 20._o you_o know_v not_o what_o you_o ask_v and_o indeed_o say_v he_o and_o he_o say_v it_o true_o the_o root_n of_o this_o demand_n be_v a_o heretical_a disposition_n vernaculis_fw-la prot._n then_o i_o 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and_o superior_a to_o that_o law_n whereby_o they_o be_v condemn_v tell_v i_o will_v not_o the_o french_a king_n take_v it_o for_o a_o great_a dishonour_n if_o any_o of_o his_o subject_n shall_v say_v that_o his_o edict_n and_o decree_n have_v no_o authority_n over_o his_o people_n without_o their_o approbation_n pop._n yes_o doubtless_o he_o will_v prot._n just_o so_o you_o deal_v with_o god_n and_o what_o can_v be_v a_o foul_a dishonour_n to_o god_n than_o that_o which_o your_o great_a stapleton_n affirm_v and_o gretser_n and_o other_o justify_v and_o your_o church_n to_o this_o day_n have_v never_o disow_v it_o that_o the_o divinity_n of_o christ_n and_o of_o god_n in_o respect_n of_o we_o depend_v upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o pope_n 17._o and_o what_o more_o dishonourable_a to_o god_n than_o what_o your_o great_a champion_n bellarmine_n say_v that_o if_o the_o pope_n shall_v err_v in_o forbid_a virtue_n which_o god_n have_v command_v and_o command_v vice_n which_o god_n have_v forbid_v and_o that_o he_o may_v so_o err_v divers_a of_o your_o most_o famous_a and_o approve_a author_n confess_v nullity_n the_o church_n be_v bind_v to_o believe_v vice_n to_o be_v good_a and_o virtue_n bad_a unless_o she_o will_v sin_v against_o conscience_n 5._o that_o be_v in_o plain_a term_n the_o pope_n be_v to_o be_v obey_v before_o god_n again_o be_v it_o not_o high_o dishonourable_a to_o god_n to_o give_v the_o worship_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o god_n unto_o the_o creature_n i_o confess_v the_o prophet_n isaiah_n have_v convince_v i_o of_o it_o isa._n 42_o 8._o i_o be_o the_o lord_n that_o be_v my_o name_n and_o my_o glory_n will_v i_o not_o give_v to_o another_o neither_o my_o praise_n to_o grave_a image_n pop._n i_o also_o be_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n but_o it_o be_v a_o scandal_n of_o your_o minister_n to_o say_v we_o give_v god_n honour_n to_o the_o creature_n i_o know_v where_o about_o you_o be_v you_o mean_v it_o of_o image_n whereas_o we_o worship_v they_o 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will_v not_o impute_v it_o to_o we_o prot._n tell_v i_o i_o beseech_v you_o will_v all_o kind_n of_o ignorance_n excuse_v a_o man_n pop._n no_o certain_o there_o be_v a_o wilful_a and_o affect_a ignorance_n which_o because_o it_o be_v against_o clear_a light_n will_v not_o excuse_v prot._n tell_v i_o far_o do_v this_o excuse_n the_o jew_n from_o their_o sin_n of_o crucify_a christ_n and_o the_o damnation_n due_a to_o it_o that_o they_o do_v it_o ignorant_o act._n 3._o 17._o pop._n no_o because_o they_o shut_v their_o eye_n against_o the_o plain_a light_n and_o clear_a evidence_n of_o that_o truth_n that_o christ_n be_v the_o messiah_n prot._n no_o less_o do_v you_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o sacrament_n for_o they_o have_v no_o great_a evidence_n against_o they_o than_o sense_n and_o reason_n and_o scripture_n all_o which_o you_o reject_v as_o i_o shall_v prove_v by_o god_n help_n and_o as_o your_o religion_n dishonour_v god_n so_o do_v it_o also_o high_o dishonour_n jesus_n 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the_o falseness_n of_o your_o religion_n for_o such_o will_v be_v apt_a to_o conclude_v that_o your_o faith_n be_v not_o right_a because_o your_o uncharitableness_n be_v so_o notorious_a and_o monstrous_a in_o condemn_v all_o the_o world_n beside_o yourselves_o and_o that_o too_o upon_o such_o frivolous_a pretence_n this_o argument_n therefore_o of_o you_o have_v little_a weight_n let_v i_o hear_v what_o further_o you_o have_v to_o say_v against_o our_o religion_n pop._n then_o consider_v serious_o of_o this_o that_o your_o church_n confess_v that_o she_o be_v fallible_a and_o that_o you_o have_v no_o infallible_a judge_n among_o you_o whereby_o controversy_n may_v be_v end_v but_o our_o church_n be_v infallible_a prot._n i_o confess_v now_o you_o speak_v home_o make_v this_o good_a that_o it_o be_v necessary_a the_o church_n shall_v be_v infallible_a and_o that_o you_o be_v so_o and_o i_o shall_v ease_v you_o of_o the_o trouble_n of_o further_a argument_n but_o i_o must_v ask_v you_o 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all_o agree_v the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n be_v monarchical_a prot._n be_v you_o then_o agree_v that_o the_o pope_n alone_o be_v the_o infallible_a judge_n speak_v the_o truth_n and_o the_o whole_a truth_n and_o nothing_o but_o the_o truth_n pop._n i_o will_v deal_v true_o with_o you_o we_o be_v not_o all_o agree_v in_o that_o point_n the_o french_a catholic_n general_o deny_v it_o and_o divers_a of_o our_o eminent_a doctor_n and_o writer_n as_o bellarmin_n confess_v 2._o and_o among_o the_o rest_n a_o pope_n adrian_n by_o name_n deny_v it_o and_o even_o they_o that_o seem_v to_o be_v better_o mind_v towards_o the_o pope_n acknowledge_v that_o it_o be_v no_o heresy_n to_o deny_v this_o and_o that_o divers_a good_a catholic_n deny_v it_o and_o that_o it_o be_v but_o a_o disputable_a point_n 1._o prot._n be_v it_o then_o a_o general_n council_n that_o be_v infallible_a be_v you_o agree_v in_o that_o deal_v true_o and_o clear_o with_o i_o pop._n then_o i_o must_v confess_v we_o be_v not_o all_o agree_v in_o that_o neither_o for_o the_o pope_n will_v deny_v this_o and_o all_o the_o jesuit_n and_o italian_a catholic_n and_o other_o who_o ascribe_v this_o infallibility_n to_o the_o pope_n only_o prot._n who_o then_o be_v this_o infallible_a judge_n pop._n the_o pope_n and_o a_o general_n council_n agree_v together_o prot._n be_v there_o then_o at_o this_o time_n any_o general_a council_n at_o rome_n or_o elsewhere_o which_o do_v agree_v with_o the_o pope_n pop._n no_o but_o though_o there_o be_v no_o council_n now_o in_o their_o person_n yet_o there_o be_v in_o their_o write_n and_o the_o pope_n agree_v with_o they_o be_v infallible_a prot._n but_o i_o have_v be_v tell_v that_o all_o your_o doctor_n agree_v in_o this_o that_o no_o write_n can_v be_v a_o judge_n of_o controversy_n if_o you_o deny_v this_o i_o shall_v think_v the_o write_n of_o god_n which_o you_o all_o acknowledge_v the_o scripture_n to_o be_v may_v challenge_v this_o privilege_n as_o well_o as_o the_o write_n of_o any_o council_n or_o man_n you_o all_o plead_v for_o the_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o a_o live_a infallible_a judge_n pop._n though_o catholic_n be_v divide_v in_o the_o manner_n of_o expression_n yet_o all_o be_v agree_v in_o this_o general_a proposition_n that_o our_o church_n be_v infallible_a prot._n call_v you_o this_o only_a a_o difference_n in_o manner_n of_o expression_n for_o one_o to_o say_v the_o pope_n be_v infallible_a another_o to_o say_v he_o be_v fallible_a for_o some_o of_o you_o to_o affirm_v the_o infallibility_n of_o council_n other_o utter_o to_o deny_v it_o i_o beseech_v you_o remember_v i_o be_o inquire_v after_o particular_n and_o therefore_o do_v not_o put_v i_o off_o with_o deceitful_a general_n who_o and_o where_o be_v the_o man_n or_o man_n to_o who_o i_o must_v go_v to_o be_v infallible_o resolve_v in_o all_o controversy_n for_o if_o the_o king_n shall_v tell_v his_o people_n he_o have_v appoint_v a_o judge_n to_o end_v all_o their_o civil_a controversy_n this_o will_v be_v to_o no_o purpose_n unless_o he_o shall_v tell_v who_o that_o judge_n be_v so_o that_o till_o i_o hear_v you_o be_v agree_v in_o this_o particular_a my_o doubt_n and_o perplexity_n must_v needs_o remain_v and_o then_o for_o the_o next_o point_n i_o ask_v you_o how_o you_o prove_v this_o infallibility_n which_o you_o pretend_v to_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o since_o it_o be_v the_o very_a foundation_n of_o your_o faith_n i_o expect_v very_o clear_a and_o undeniable_a proof_n i_o pray_v you_o bring_v i_o two_o or_o three_o of_o your_o strong_a argument_n pop._n in_o this_o you_o speak_v reason_n and_o i_o shall_v comply_v with_o your_o desire_n i_o shall_v give_v you_o two_o or_o three_o plain_a and_o evident_a scripture_n to_o prove_v it_o 1._o that_o of_o mat._n 16._o 18._o hence_o i_o thus_o argue_v the_o church_n be_v say_v to_o be_v build_v upon_o st._n peter_n he_o be_v the_o rock_n speak_v of_o and_o this_o rock_n do_v together_o with_o s._n peter_n include_v his_o successor_n and_o the_o church_n build_v upon_o this_o rock_n that_o be_v unite_v to_o and_o build_v upon_o the_o pope_n be_v infallible_a for_o it_o be_v say_v the_o gate_n of_o hell_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o it_o prot._n not_o one_o of_o all_o these_o thing_n be_v true_a 1._o it_o be_v more_o probable_a that_o not_o peter_n person_n but_o his_o doctrine_n or_o his_o confession_n concern_v christ_n which_o now_o he_o make_v be_v the_o rock_n upon_o which_o the_o church_n be_v build_v scripture_n be_v its_o own_o best_a interpreter_n it_o be_v not_o peter_n but_o christ_n which_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o the_o church_n as_o he_o be_v call_v isa._n 28._o 16._o compare_v with_o 1_o pet._n 2._o 6_o 7_o 8._o it_o be_v express_o 1_o cor._n 3._o 11._o other_o foundation_n can_v no_o man_n lay_v but_o that_o that_o be_v lay_v which_o be_v jesus_n christ_n and_o this_o be_v the_o more_o considerable_a because_o he_o speak_v against_o those_o that_o make_v the_o apostle_n foundation_n one_o say_v i_o be_o of_o paul_n another_o i_o of_o apollo_n i_o of_o cephas_n and_o if_o this_o be_v speak_v of_o peter_n no_o more_o be_v say_v of_o he_o here_o than_o be_v say_v of_o all_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n ephes._n 2._o 20._o you_o be_v build_v upon_o the_o foundation_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o beside_o if_o by_o this_o text_n peter_n have_v be_v make_v supreme_a and_o infallible_a head_n of_o the_o church_n and_o judge_n of_o all_o controversy_n no_o man_n in_o his_o wit_n can_v believe_v that_o st._n paul_n will_v have_v treat_v he_o so_o irreverent_o to_o speak_v the_o least_o as_o he_o do_v galat._n 2._o which_o be_v more_o considerable_a because_o than_o christ_n be_v dead_a and_o peter_z in_o the_o actual_a exercise_n of_o his_o headship_n and_o government_n and_o if_o we_o may_v believe_v you_o public_o and_o universal_o own_v for_o such_o that_o he_o will_v have_v equal_v himself_o with_o he_o as_o he_o do_v 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in_o the_o case_n of_o abraham_n offering_n up_o isaac_n and_o the_o israelite_n spoil_v the_o egyptian_n of_o their_o jewel_n yet_o i_o need_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o this_o i_o direct_o deny_v that_o here_o be_v any_o contradiction_n at_o all_o for_o our_o question_n be_v not_o about_o the_o make_n of_o image_n whether_o by_o god_n order_n or_o man_n but_o about_o the_o worship_v of_o they_o and_o albeit_o there_o be_v such_o image_n make_v yet_o they_o be_v not_o make_v to_o be_v worship_v as_o i_o before_o prove_v nor_o be_v there_o any_o danger_n the_o people_n shall_v worship_v they_o because_o they_o be_v not_o admit_v to_o see_v they_o but_o i_o pray_v you_o answer_v i_o this_o one_o question_n i_o be_o tell_v that_o divers_a of_o your_o own_o author_n confess_v that_o the_o jew_n indeed_o be_v though_o christian_n be_v not_o forbid_v the_o use_n of_o image_n by_o this_o command_n be_v it_o so_o pop._n these_o indeed_o be_v the_o word_n of_o our_o famous_a vasquez_n after_o 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i_o suppose_v you_o do_v not_o think_v all_o these_o ancient_a father_n be_v damn_v pop._n no_o god_n forbid_v for_o many_o of_o they_o be_v glorious_a confessor_n and_o martyr_n prot._n then_o i_o see_v bellarmine_n threat_n be_v not_o very_o formidable_a but_o to_o let_v this_o pass_v how_o do_v you_o prove_v this_o doctrine_n pop._n from_o plain_a scripture_n 1._o from_o mat._n 12._o 32._o whosoever_o speak_v against_o the_o holy_a ghost_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v forgive_v he_o neither_o in_o this_o world_n neither_o in_o the_o world_n to_o come_v which_o clear_o imply_v that_o some_o sin_n not_o forgive_v in_o this_o world_n be_v forgive_v in_o the_o next_o and_o that_o must_v be_v in_o purgatory_n prot._n i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o what_o sin_n be_v they_o which_o be_v forgive_v in_o purgatory_n pop._n not_o great_a and_o mortal_a but_o small_a and_o venial_a sin_n as_o we_o all_o agree_v prot._n be_v not_o blasphemy_n against_o the_o son_n of_o man_n a_o mortal_a sin_n pop._n yes_o doubtless_o but_o what_o of_o that_o prot._n if_o this_o text_n prove_v the_o pardon_n of_o any_o sin_n it_o prove_v the_o pardon_n of_o that_o sin_n no_o less_o than_o other_o because_o the_o sin_n against_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v here_o speak_v of_o as_o the_o only_a sin_n which_o be_v unpardonable_a in_o both_o world_n beside_o christ_n speak_v thus_o in_o opposition_n to_o a_o corrupt_a opinion_n which_o i_o have_v hear_v now_o be_v and_o then_o be_v rife_o among_o the_o jew_n to_o wit_n that_o divers_a of_o their_o sin_n be_v pardon_v after_o this_o life_n and_o that_o this_o be_v one_o of_o their_o ancient_a prayer_n let_v my_o death_n be_v the_o expiation_n of_o all_o my_o sin_n for_o they_o think_v the_o suffering_n of_o this_o life_n and_o death_n the_o last_o of_o they_o do_v free_v they_o from_o the_o punishment_n of_o the_o other_o life_n and_o i_o have_v hear_v that_o it_o be_v one_o of_o their_o say_n that_o every_o israelite_n have_v a_o part_n in_o the_o future_a life_n be_v these_o thing_n so_o pop._n to_o deal_v free_o with_o you_o this_o be_v not_o only_o true_a but_o it_o be_v one_o of_o our_o argument_n for_o purgatory_n that_o jason_n the_o cyrenian_a who_o live_v long_o before_o christ_n time_n express_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v profitable_a to_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a that_o their_o sin_n may_v be_v pardon_v 2_o mac._n 12._o prot._n i_o think_v that_o be_v impertinent_o allege_v for_o purgatory_n for_o the_o sin_n those_o man_n die_v in_o be_v a_o mortal_a sin_n as_o you_o confess_v and_o therefore_o not_o pardonable_a in_o purgatory_n but_o i_o thank_v you_o for_o this_o for_o now_o i_o be_o satisfy_v that_o it_o be_v a_o ancient_a opinion_n among_o the_o jew_n and_o so_o christ_n have_v just_a