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scripture_n acknowledge_v church_n faith_n 2,659 5 5.1512 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A78132 A defence of the lavvfulnesse of baptizing infants. As also of the present baptisme, as it hath continued in the severall ages of the world, from John Baptist the first beginner thereof. In way of answer to something written by Iohn Spilsberie against the same. Barbon, Praisegod, 1596?-1679. 1645 (1645) Wing B749; Thomason E270_12; ESTC R212355 60,304 74

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fellowship_n etc._n etc._n this_o be_v only_o true_a of_o the_o proceed_v of_o the_o church_n as_o before_o but_o this_o join_n be_v to_o be_v of_o baptize_v matter_n as_o it_o be_v at_o the_o beginning_n which_o necessary_o call_v either_o for_o a_o person_n from_o heaven_n as_o in_o the_o instance_n of_o john_n or_o the_o continuance_n of_o baptize_v person_n in_o the_o world_n from_o john_n downward_o as_o be_v the_o case_n now_o though_o j._n s._n will_v not_o acknowledge_v the_o same_o the_o sum_n of_o the_o distinction_n he_o make_v to_o be_v this_o in_o the_o first_o sense_n the_o church_n be_v not_o before_o the_o scripture_n in_o the_o last_o sense_n it_o be_v before_o baptism_n utter_o untrue_a as_o before_o j._n s._n tell_v we_o his_o distinction_n be_v observe_v we_o be_v not_o to_o deny_v a_o church_n to_o be_v a_o church_n though_o the_o scripture_n do_v not_o so_o call_v it_o so_o the_o scripture_n of_o which_o he_o speak_v so_o great_a thing_n in_o case_n of_o raise_v baptism_n lose_v be_v now_o become_v deficient_a and_o we_o may_v be_v wise_a than_o they_o teach_v we_o and_o call_v a_o people_n a_o church_n though_o they_o do_v not_o so_o call_v they_o or_o teach_v we_o so_o to_o do_v and_o we_o be_v not_o so_o engage_v to_o speak_v as_o the_o word_n of_o god_n his_o reason_n of_o this_o strange_a divinity_n be_v the_o church_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o many_o of_o the_o new_a be_v church_n before_o they_o be_v so_o call_v but_o i_o say_v they_o be_v not_o right_o gather_v church_n before_o they_o be_v baptize_v neither_o do_v the_o scripture_n give_v that_o appellation_n to_o any_o in_o a_o relative_a way_n to_o christ_n and_o we_o may_v not_o be_v wise_a above_o what_o be_v write_v cornelius_n and_o his_o friend_n come_v together_o be_v no_o right_n orderly_o gather_v church_n before_o baptism_n neither_o do_v the_o scripture_n so_o call_v they_o after_o all_o say_v that_o may_v be_v he_o demand_v why_o it_o may_v not_o be_v so_o that_o 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of_o god_n as_o be_v john_n of_o old_a as_o be_v necessary_a to_o raise_v baptism_n if_o it_o be_v lose_v out_o of_o the_o world_n as_o they_o hold_v baptise_v according_o to_o their_o commission_n that_o those_o they_o baptize_v can_v put_v on_o christ_n nor_o be_v baptize_v into_o one_o body_n nor_o into_o the_o true_a profession_n of_o the_o trinity_n only_o because_o j._n s._n say_v so_o without_o any_o show_n of_o ground_n for_o three_o those_o scripture_n cite_v have_v no_o such_o thing_n in_o they_o certain_o to_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o rational_a man_n neither_o can_v it_o be_v imagine_v that_o there_o be_v any_o let_v in_o regard_n of_o any_o of_o they_o why_o a_o person_n send_v of_o god_n shall_v not_o baptize_v before_o the_o church_n be_v form_v for_o that_o in_o act_n 2._o 41._o he_o say_v it_o be_v only_o declarative_a of_o the_o great_a increase_n of_o the_o church_n through_o god_n goodness_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o declare_v plain_o that_o they_o 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word_n and_o spirit_n dwell_v yet_o be_v not_o come_v out_o of_o that_o state_n according_a to_o his_o sense_n now_o to_o grant_v this_o be_v more_o likely_a to_o keep_v up_o the_o state_n of_o antichrist_n and_o to_o deny_v this_o sure_a he_o dare_v not_o let_v he_o see_v how_o he_o will_v avoid_v his_o own_o argument_n upon_o his_o own_o ground_n sure_o some_o have_v see_v this_o and_o thereupon_o have_v hold_v no_o faith_n no_o grace_n no_o christ_n till_o so_o separate_v from_o babylon_n sure_o he_o must_v either_o renounce_v his_o reason_n or_o fall_v under_o the_o condemnation_n of_o it_o if_o he_o be_v true_a to_o his_o own_o principle_n in_o this_o particular_a that_o now_o i_o set_v down_o if_o my_o judgement_n fail_v i_o not_o he_o will_v never_o be_v able_a to_o avoid_v it_o by_o grant_v the_o scripture_n translate_v to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o useful_a in_o the_o church_n which_o babylon_n have_v translate_v keep_v and_o hold_v forth_o and_o build_v upon_o now_o 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etc._n and_o yet_o he_o hold_v a_o unbaptised_a church_n as_o we_o note_v before_o he_o add_v further_a that_o it_o be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n it_o be_v sin_n in_o any_o not_o to_o communicate_v with_o she_o a_o confident_a charge_n but_o where_o be_v the_o proof_n alas_o it_o be_v altogether_o want_v communion_n with_o a_o church_n be_v the_o question_n to_o which_o i_o shall_v say_v a_o little_a and_o leave_v the_o reader_n to_o judge_v first_o i_o distinguish_v of_o church_n second_o of_o communion_n church_n be_v either_o pure_a and_o undefiled_a or_o otherwise_o corrupt_a and_o in_o sundry_a thing_n pollute_v communion_n it_o be_v either_o general_a consist_v in_o own_v acknowledge_v and_o stand_v for_o or_o it_o be_v special_a and_o peculiar_a in_o fellowship_n and_o worship_n now_o for_o a_o church_n corrupt_a and_o defile_v general_a communion_n only_o can_v lawful_o be_v extend_v especial_o if_o she_o be_v great_o defile_v for_o we_o may_v not_o partake_v of_o other_o sin_n though_o we_o be_v to_o own_o their_o virtue_n and_o good_a thing_n that_o be_v in_o they_o and_o hold_v relation_n to_o they_o while_o they_o 22._o 1_o tim._n 5._o 22._o hold_v the_o head_n but_o with_o a_o pure_a church_n we_o may_v and_o aught_o to_o extend_v communion_n in_o all_o the_o part_n of_o communion_n but_o the_o question_n be_v of_o communion_n with_o a_o corrupt_a church_n i_o say_v we_o be_v to_o hold_v general_a communion_n with_o the_o same_o and_o to_o own_o it_o for_o the_o relation_n it_o have_v to_o christ_n so_o long_o as_o it_o hold_v the_o head_n and_o if_o particular_a communion_n in_o ordinance_n can_v be_v extend_v without_o partake_v in_o sin_n we_o shall_v not_o be_v want_v that_o way_n as_o occasion_n be_v offer_v but_o though_o with_o such_o a_o church_n in_o general_a and_o further_o as_o we_o can_v without_o sin_n yet_o not_o with_o she_o in_o sin_n we_o be_v to_o keep_v ourselves_o pure_a as_o before_o and_o in_o this_o case_n that_o be_v very_o considerable_a revel_v 18._o 4._o come_v out_o of_o she_o my_o people_n that_o you_o partake_v not_o of_o her_o sin_n so_o that_o here_o i_o both_o grant_n and_o also_o deny_v that_o which_o i._o s._n affirm_v i_o grant_v if_o it_o be_v a_o church_n though_o corrupt_a yet_o so_o long_o as_o it_o have_v relation_n to_o christ_n it_o be_v sin_n not_o to_o own_v she_o and_o acknowledge_v her_o relation_n i_o wish_v i._n s._n be_v free_a from_o this_o sin_n that_o condemn_v as_o no_o church_n of_o christ_n all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o the_o world_n only_o those_o of_o his_o way_n i_o pray_v he_o to_o consider_v of_o it_o i_o also_o deny_v what_o he_o say_v be_v refer_v to_o that_o special_a communion_n in_o ordinance_n and_o worship_n which_o we_o be_v bind_v no_o further_o unto_o then_o as_o we_o may_v partake_v with_o they_o without_o sin_n and_o defilement_n the_o seven_o thousand_o can_v not_o may_v not_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v bow_v to_o baal_n or_o kiss_v the_o calf_n or_o go_v to_o gilgal_n to_o transgress_v 5._o rom._n 11._o 4._o hosea_n 13._o 2._o hosea_n 4._o 15._o amos_n 5._o 5._o nor_o yet_o join_v with_o those_o priest_n make_v of_o the_o low_a of_o the_o people_n yet_o be_v they_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o circumcision_n and_o other_o of_o god_n ordinance_n may_v be_v do_v lawful_o of_o they_o yea_o those_o of_o the_o church_n do_v not_o sin_n in_o abstain_v communion_n in_o judah_n itself_o in_o the_o time_n of_o ahaz_n and_o manasses_n for_o as_o in_o go_v to_o gilgal_n so_o in_o go_v to_o jerusalem_n they_o shall_v have_v transgress_v all_o which_o consider_v i_o conceive_v it_o will_v appear_v to_o be_v very_o fabulous_a which_o i._o s._n affirm_v of_o infant_n baptism_n keep_v up_o the_o state_n of_o antichrist_n for_o indeed_o the_o contrary_n be_v rather_o true_a that_o the_o denial_n of_o they_o right_o to_o that_o holy_a ordinance_n do_v rather_o keep_v up_o that_o state_n by_o the_o harden_v they_o that_o otherwise_o will_v come_v out_o and_o also_o by_o the_o great_a confusion_n like_o another_o babel_n which_o this_o opinion_n and_o practice_n produce_v all_o which_o i_o leave_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o godly_a wise_a reason_n vi_o it_o be_v unlawful_a to_o baptize_v infant_n for_o that_o be_v to_o build_v faith_n upon_o humane_a testimony_n in_o matter_n fundamental_a for_o such_o as_o be_v baptize_v in_o infancy_n have_v no_o other_o way_n to_o satisfy_v themselves_o or_o other_o but_o the_o bare_a word_n of_o man_n that_o must_v stand_v in_o the_o place_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n for_o such_o their_o true_o receive_v so_o holy_a a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n answer_n this_o reason_n be_v very_o unlike_a i._n s._n he_o promise_v fair_a for_o gravity_n and_o wisdom_n etc._n etc._n but_o sure_o such_o a_o shallow_a and_o unsound_a argument_n be_v never_o frame_v before_o i_o suppose_v it_o be_v not_o his_o own_o but_o that_o he_o have_v receive_v it_o without_o consideration_n from_o some_o one_o that_o he_o be_v high_o take_v withal_o and_o be_v a_o new_a thing_n it_o please_v he_o and_o he_o set_v it_o among_o his_o reason_n why_o he_o will_v not_o have_v child_n baptize_v that_o they_o may_v be_v something_o for_o number_n though_o nothing_o in_o substance_n and_o weight_n his_o scope_n be_v easy_a but_o his_o expression_n dark_a and_o covert_a i_o shall_v go_v over_o they_o by_o way_n of_o quere_z first_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v what_o faith_n he_o here_o mean_v whether_o historical_a or_o of_o some_o other_o kind_n second_o i_o will_v know_v what_o he_o mean_v by_o build_v faith_n upon_o humane_a testimony_n three_o i_o will_v know_v what_o he_o mean_v
with_o all_o truth_n as_o the_o scripture_n quote_v compare_v together_o will_v prove_v to_o which_o i_o say_v they_o do_v easy_o and_o full_o prove_v the_o same_o and_o there_o be_v never_o any_o that_o hold_v the_o perfection_n of_o the_o scripture_n that_o do_v deny_v the_o same_o yet_o be_v j._n s._n never_o the_o near_o for_o all_o his_o pain_n in_o multiply_a expression_n to_o make_v the_o matter_n seem_v something_o when_o indeed_o it_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o purpose_n for_o to_o the_o law_n and_o the_o testimony_n we_o be_v to_o go_v and_o in_o 19_o esay_n 8._o 20._o 2_o pet._n 1_o 19_o difficult_a case_n to_o take_v heed_n to_o the_o word_n as_o to_o a_o light_n that_o enlighten_v in_o darkness_n now_o first_o i_o say_v the_o scripture_n give_v no_o light_n at_o all_o concern_v such_o a_o cessation_n of_o the_o church_n and_o ordinance_n nay_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o the_o scripture_n to_o believe_v any_o such_o thing_n jesus_n christ_n have_v say_v that_o hell_n gate_n shall_v not_o prevail_v against_o his_o church_n and_o 20._o matth._n 16._o matth._n 28._o 20._o have_v also_o promise_v his_o presence_n for_o preservation_n and_o continuation_n for_o ever_o second_o i_o say_v it_o be_v but_o directive_o that_o the_o scripture_n do_v furnish_v man_n in_o all_o case_n now_o their_o direction_n in_o this_o case_n it_o be_v to_o the_o church_n 18._o 2_o tim._n 3._o 17_o 18._o and_o to_o the_o ministry_n of_o man_n for_o the_o enjoy_n and_o be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o holy_a ordinance_n of_o god_n the_o holy_a scripture_n of_o old_a in_o a_o like_a manner_n stand_v in_o the_o stead_n of_o moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n in_o a_o sense_n and_o yet_o the_o heathen_a be_v to_o repair_v to_o jerusalem_n for_o the_o ordinance_n as_o they_o do_v and_o do_v not_o act_v 32._o esay_n 8._o 20._o 2_o pet._n 1._o 19_o 2_o chro._n 6._o 32._o they_o themselves_o with_o the_o help_n of_o the_o law_n the_o scripture_n in_o a_o sense_n stand_v in_o the_o stead_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n yet_o the_o people_n must_v go_v to_o john_n yea_o our_o lord_n himself_o that_o he_o may_v fulfil_v righteousness_n 15._o matth._n 3._o 15._o must_v go_v to_o he_o cornelius_n must_v send_v for_o peter_n paul_n must_v 10._o act._n 10._o 32._o act._n 9_o 10._o have_v ananias_n and_o so_o such_o as_o attain_v the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o truth_n they_o be_v to_o go_v to_o the_o church_n and_o ministry_n of_o man_n appoint_v of_o god_n and_o so_o that_o way_n to_o be_v add_v to_o the_o church_n and_o make_v partaker_n of_o the_o holy_a ordinance_n of_o god_n for_o it_o be_v most_o certain_a the_o 47._o act._n 2._o 47._o scripture_n act_v nothing_o neither_o can_v they_o they_o only_o direct_v in_o righteousness_n 16._o 2_o tim._n 3._o 16._o their_o direction_n be_v always_o as_o aforesaid_a and_o no_o otherwise_o three_o i_o say_v it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o the_o scripture_n be_v in_o the_o stead_n of_o the_o holy_a ministry_n ordain_v by_o god_n the_o scripture_n be_v not_o in_o the_o stead_n of_o the_o priest_n in_o case_n of_o saul_n sacrifice_v nor_o in_o vzzia_n the_o king_n his_o burn_a incense_n to_o enable_v they_o to_o do_v as_o they_o do_v 12._o 1_o sam._n 13._o 12._o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o in_o stead_n of_o circumcise_a jew_n unto_o the_o heathen_a to_o enable_v they_o or_o make_v they_o capable_a of_o build_v the_o temple_n 18._o 2_o chron._n 26._o 17_o 18._o they_o be_v not_o in_o stead_n of_o john_n baptist_n to_o our_o lord_n they_o be_v not_o in_o stead_n of_o peter_n to_o cornelius_n and_o his_o friend_n as_o it_o be_v not_o in_o stead_n of_o 32._o ezra_n 4._o 3._o matth._n 3._o 15._o act_n 10._o 32._o christ_n the_o apostle_n or_o holy_a ministry_n to_o a_o unbaptised_a person_n or_o person_n to_o enable_v they_o warrantable_o to_o baptise_v and_o so_o without_o commission_n to_o raise_v this_o ordinance_n a_o new_a so_o lose_v and_o decease_v out_o of_o the_o world_n according_a to_o his_o opinion_n the_o scripture_n which_o he_o quote_v i_o shall_v set_v down_o and_o they_o be_v these_o 2_o tim._n 3._o 15._o 2_o pet._n 1._o 19_o rom._n 16._o 25_o etc._n etc._n now_o i_o appeal_v to_o the_o indifferent_a reader_n whether_o these_o scripture_n all_o or_o any_o of_o they_o be_v any_o other_o then_o directive_n again_o whether_o their_o direction_n it_o be_v not_o to_o a_o precedent_n stative_a church_n and_o ministry_n of_o man_n appoint_v by_o god_n as_o former_o under_o moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n so_o in_o this_o latter_a dispensation_n under_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n as_o be_v before_o declare_v last_o whether_o these_o scripture_n or_o any_o of_o these_o or_o all_o of_o these_o compare_v together_o do_v give_v direction_n to_o a_o person_n unbaptise_v himself_o to_o baptize_v either_o himself_o or_o other_o and_o whether_o they_o do_v not_o rather_o testify_v against_o such_o usurpation_n of_o god_n holy_a thing_n and_o run_v before_o they_o be_v send_v in_o thus_o do_v a_o thing_n that_o never_o come_v into_o 21._o jerem._n 23._o 21._o the_o mind_n of_o god_n much_o less_o do_v he_o require_v it_o at_o their_o hand_n 35._o jerem._n 32._o 35._o j._n s._n proceed_v and_o say_v by_o all_o which_o we_o see_v that_o all_o thing_n be_v contain_v in_o the_o scripture_n answ_n yea_o in_o the_o way_n of_o direction_n and_o therefore_o such_o practice_n as_o be_v without_o the_o direction_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v unwarrantable_a such_o as_o be_v their_o cast_v away_o as_o null_a their_o present_a baptism_n because_o of_o some_o corruption_n that_o do_v attend_v it_o and_o begin_v it_o again_o with_o great_a corruption_n namely_o by_o a_o unbaptised_a person_n without_o commission_n act_v of_o it_o here_o he_o add_v many_o good_a word_n in_o commendation_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o contain_v all_o thing_n concern_v faith_n and_o obedience_n as_o be_v the_o prophetical_a mouth_n of_o christ_n to_o which_o all_o must_v repair_v unto_o and_o all_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n must_v be_v try_v by_o and_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n be_v not_o to_o be_v believe_v but_o as_o they_o speak_v according_a to_o it_o all_o which_o be_v directive_n as_o i_o say_v before_o and_o what_o then_o true_o nothing_o though_o he_o go_v over_o the_o same_o matter_n again_o with_o some_o different_a expression_n and_o some_o of_o they_o improper_a carry_v a_o show_n of_o favour_v his_o conceit_n and_o what_o he_o will_v have_v as_o where_o he_o say_v the_o scripture_n be_v the_o only_a place_n how_o be_v this_o proper_a or_o true_a unless_o he_o mean_v in_o a_o directive_n way_n where_o any_o ordinance_n of_o god_n in_o case_n aforesaid_a that_o be_v of_o cessation_n and_o loss_n of_o be_v again_o when_o or_o wheresoever_o any_o of_o these_o meaning_n ordinance_n of_o god_n can_v be_v find_v what_o then_o we_o be_v say_v he_o to_o go_v to_o the_o scripture_n direct_o and_o recover_v the_o same_o again_o as_o cant._n 1._o 7._o esay_n 8._o 19_o 20._o answ_n all_o this_o be_v but_o the_o same_o over_o again_o we_o be_v to_o go_v to_o the_o scripture_n for_o direction_n if_o the_o case_n be_v so_o the_o scripture_n direct_v and_o not_o act_v as_o esay_n 8._o 19_o 20._o the_o church_n act_v according_a to_o that_o direction_n and_o therefore_o person_n be_v send_v thither_o according_a to_o that_o cant._n 1._o 7._o allege_v which_o be_v according_a to_o the_o direction_n of_o scripture_n which_o always_o send_v man_n to_o the_o church_n in_o such_o case_n so_o as_o in_o this_o copiousness_n he_o do_v but_o puzzle_v his_o reader_n to_o make_v he_o believe_v what_o he_o be_v never_o able_a to_o prove_v he_o proceed_v say_v thus_o have_v find_v out_o the_o place_n or_o subject_n very_o improper_a expression_n be_v not_o the_o scripture_n the_o ground_n and_o foundation_n of_o all_o ordinance_n in_o a_o directive_n way_n do_v ever_o any_o christian_a question_n it_o much_o less_o deny_v it_o that_o he_o shall_v with_o often_o go_v over_o the_o same_o and_o with_o such_o improper_a expression_n and_o far_o fetch_v seek_v to_o make_v it_o appear_v as_o a_o discovery_n of_o truth_n not_o know_v or_o at_o least_o not_o assent_v unto_o sure_o he_o have_v some_o further_a drift_n in_o it_o then_o ordinary_a in_o the_o next_o place_n he_o say_v it_o be_v to_o be_v know_v how_o they_o that_o want_v it_o may_v come_v orderly_o by_o it_o for_o say_v he_o though_o god_n have_v join_v his_o word_n and_o ordinance_n together_o yet_o he_o have_v enjoin_v a_o orderly_a way_n for_o his_o people_n to_o come_v to_o enjoy_v they_o answ_n i_o will_v fain_o know_v to_o what_o end_n all_o the_o former_a matter_n serve_v if_o so_o be_v god_n require_v a_o
very_o dark_a and_o smoky_a this_o he_o will_v do_v by_o show_v the_o manner_n of_o the_o aforesaid_a constitution_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o how_o will_v he_o do_v it_o in_o pag._n 40._o by_o say_v over_o again_o what_o he_o have_v say_v again_o and_o again_o before_o namely_o that_o the_o scripture_n remain_v in_o the_o place_n of_o the_o apostle_n for_o we_o to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o and_o serve_v as_o the_o mouth_n of_o christ_n alas_o this_o be_v but_o a_o poor_a clear_n for_o this_o be_v only_o in_o a_o directive_n way_n as_o before_o i_o note_v and_o what_o then_o the_o scripture_n be_v so_o true_o nothing_o at_o all_o yes_o say_v he_o as_o the_o apostle_n do_v before_o the_o scripture_n be_v write_v to_o which_o i_o say_v there_o be_v scripture_n before_o the_o apostle_n to_o which_o the_o apostle_n have_v a_o eye_n and_o regard_n and_o direct_v other_o to_o do_v the_o like_a the_o holy_a apostle_n they_o act_v ordinance_n of_o religion_n preach_v break_v bread_n and_o baptise_v the_o scripture_n act_v nothing_o neither_o can_v they_o sure_o 42._o act._n 2._o 42._o this_o be_v a_o poor_a clear_n we_o will_v mind_v the_o scripture_n he_o here_o quote_v matth._n 28._o 20._o 2_o pet._n 19_o 20_o 21._o rom._n 10._o 6_o 7_o 8._o in_o answer_n i_o will_v not_o tire_v myself_o and_o the_o reader_n certain_o no_o man_n can_v imagine_v any_o thing_n more_o than_o direction_n from_o that_o full_a and_o perfect_a rule_n of_o the_o scripture_n as_o gatherable_a from_o those_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o as_o before_o i_o say_v none_o deny_v let_v he_o but_o call_v to_o mind_n what_o he_o say_v of_o a_o orderly_a way_n which_o god_n require_v and_o how_o that_o be_v as_o he_o conceive_v by_o the_o church_n and_o then_o let_v he_o tell_v i_o if_o he_o can_v to_o what_o purpose_n these_o scripture_n be_v or_o that_o which_o follow_v that_o as_o the_o lord_n people_n confer_v with_o the_o prophet_n and_o apostle_n about_o their_o great_a affair_n so_o have_v the_o lord_n people_n now_o moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n in_o their_o writing_n as_o luk._n 16._o 29._o and_o what_o then_o true_o nothing_o it_o be_v but_o for_o direction_n as_o before_o nor_o yet_o that_o which_o further_o follow_v in_o this_o clear_n matter_n of_o the_o constitute_a cause_n which_o be_v say_v he_o with_o the_o spirit_n of_o life_n in_o they_o as_o effectual_a as_o their_o personal_a presence_n if_o not_o more_o answ_n stay_v a_o while_n the_o matter_n be_v sure_a otherwise_o for_o this_o effectuallnesse_n if_o it_o be_v grant_v be_v but_o directive_n but_o it_o be_v not_o whole_o grant_v for_o that_o the_o apostle_n be_v man_n inspire_v and_o send_v of_o god_n to_o declare_v his_o will_n they_o be_v a_o save_a mean_n of_o good_a to_o man_n and_o god_n in_o his_o good_a pleasure_n as_o a_o double_a mercy_n give_v his_o word_n and_o send_v his_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n sure_o i_o take_v it_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o if_o the_o scripture_n be_v as_o effectual_a without_o the_o apostle_n and_o rather_o more_o then_o with_o they_o then_o god_n give_v the_o apostle_n in_o vain_a and_o the_o church_n be_v great_a loser_n by_o their_o personal_a presence_n but_o the_o truth_n be_v otherwise_o as_o be_v most_o manifest_a the_o scripture_n with_o the_o spirit_n of_o life_n in_o they_o act_n nothing_o but_o only_o direct_v and_o furnish_v man_n how_o to_o act_v according_a to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n in_o a_o orderly_a way_n according_a to_o what_o he_o hold_v for_o proof_n of_o what_o before_o he_o affirm_v of_o the_o effectualness_n of_o the_o scripture_n he_o quote_v joh._n 6._o 62._o 2_o pet._n 1._o 18_o 19_o revel_v 11._o 3_o 5_o 11._o answ_n that_o in_o john_n speak_v of_o christ_n ascend_v where_o he_o be_v before_o how_o this_o shall_v prove_v any_o thing_n be_v beyond_o my_o thought_n i_o will_v say_v nothing_o but_o leave_v the_o reader_n to_o judge_v of_o it_o that_o place_n of_o peter_n be_v of_o the_o sure_a direction_n of_o the_o word_n in_o dark_a and_o our_o do_v well_o to_o take_v heed_n to_o it_o that_o in_o the_o revelation_n be_v of_o the_o two_o witness_n a_o thing_n too_o mysterious_a to_o be_v a_o proof_n in_o this_o case_n i_o suppose_v j._n s._n will_v not_o hold_v himself_o to_o be_v one_o of_o those_o witness_n nor_o he_o with_o other_o of_o his_o way_n to_o be_v both_o those_o witness_n there_o speak_v of_o i_o will_v say_v no_o more_o but_o leave_v the_o reader_n to_o judge_v whether_o these_o scripture_n do_v prove_v that_o the_o holy_a scripture_n with_o the_o spirit_n of_o life_n in_o they_o as_o he_o be_v please_v to_o say_v be_v in_o stead_n of_o the_o apostle_n personal_o send_v of_o god_n with_o power_n to_o act_v ordinance_n or_o whether_o they_o in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o ordinance_n dispense_n in_o a_o orderly_a way_n be_v as_o much_o or_o more_o effectual_a than_o the_o apostle_n personal_o that_o be_v send_v of_o christ_n for_o that_o end_n who_o do_v not_o send_v the_o scripture_n as_o in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o eunuch_n but_o philip_n and_o in_o the_o case_n of_o cornelius_n peter_n as_o in_o those_o and_o the_o like_a instance_n may_v be_v see_v he_o proceed_v and_o in_o full_a conclude_v of_o this_o matter_n say_v and_o thus_o all_o succession_n what_o phrase_n have_v we_o here_o from_o the_o beginning_n come_v to_o christ_n of_o what_o speak_v he_o now_o of_o ordinance_n i_o have_v think_v all_o ordinance_n have_v ever_o proceed_v from_o he_o he_o be_v ever_o the_o lord_n of_o the_o church_n and_o sure_o he_o mean_v the_o ordinance_n namely_o those_o ordain_v of_o old_a under_o abraham_n and_o moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n these_o last_v &_o continue_v to_o the_o come_n of_o christ_n into_o the_o world_n the_o substance_n indeed_o of_o those_o shadow_n so_o his_o sense_n may_v be_v good_a from_o christ_n he_o say_v to_o the_o apostle_n from_o the_o apostle_n to_o the_o scripture_n this_o be_v pure_a nonsense_n if_o i_o mistake_v not_o and_o beside_o i_o ask_v he_o where_o be_v that_o orderly_a way_n he_o tell_v we_o of_o and_o how_o be_v the_o case_n now_o according_a to_o 1_o cor._n 3._o by_o he_o allege_v for_o the_o authority_n of_o a_o unbaptised_a church_n do_v he_o not_o by_o this_o descent_n seclude_v they_o from_o all_o rather_o than_o inright_o they_o to_o any_o such_o authorite_n happy_o he_o will_v say_v oh_o from_o the_o scripture_n to_o we_o very_o good_a but_o first_o how_o from_o christ_n to_o the_o apostle_n do_v christ_n our_o lord_n prefer_v the_o apostle_n before_o his_o belove_a spouse_n for_o who_o he_o give_v himself_o i_o always_o take_v the_o apostle_n as_o the_o servant_n of_o the_o church_n for_o christ_n sake_n second_o do_v the_o ordinance_n 5._o 2_o cor._n 4._o 5._o proceed_v from_o christ_n to_o the_o person_n of_o the_o apostle_n or_o to_o their_o office_n as_o apostle_n so_o as_o when_o they_o in_o regard_n either_o of_o person_n or_o office_n leave_v the_o world_n it_o descend_v to_o the_o scripture_n certain_o the_o right_a and_o interest_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o same_o before_o the_o death_n and_o cessation_n of_o the_o apostle_n as_o after_o and_o the_o scripture_n gain_v no_o legacy_n by_o such_o friend_n unless_o a_o seal_n to_o the_o truth_n and_o full_a authority_n of_o their_o direction_n so_o from_o the_o scripture_n to_o we_o a_o wonderful_a matter_n a_o very_a fair_a ring_n from_o the_o scripture_n to_o the_o scripture_n and_o so_o to_o we_o just_o nothing_o but_o a_o show_n of_o word_n without_o matter_n further_o he_o say_v that_o all_o succession_n be_v now_o spiritual_a so_o it_o seem_v he_o hold_v it_o be_v carnal_a before_o when_o it_o be_v from_o abraham_n to_o moses_n from_o moses_n to_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n and_o so_o to_o the_o scripture_n and_o now_o it_o be_v from_o the_o scripture_n to_o we_o it_o be_v spiritual_a a_o rare_a conceit_n he_o say_v it_o be_v now_o according_a to_o faith_n whether_o he_o mean_v faith_n of_o miracle_n or_o what_o else_o be_v hard_o to_o say_v but_o it_o matter_v not_o much_o for_o he_o be_v beside_o the_o scripture_n and_o walk_v in_o some_o other_o field_n it_o follow_v not_o say_v he_o the_o personal_a succession_n of_o any_o but_o only_o the_o word_n of_o god_n answ_n sure_a j._n s._n speak_v in_o a_o strange_a tongue_n he_o be_v never_o able_a to_o make_v out_o his_o sense_n that_o succession_n follow_v the_o word_n the_o word_n be_v immovable_a and_o that_o which_o abide_v for_o ever_o and_o have_v no_o place_n for_o succession_n though_o he_o thus_o speak_v he_o know_v not_o what_o and_o the_o word_n of_o god_n he_o say_v
please_v so_o as_o it_o must_v be_v the_o want_n of_o his_o new_a baptism_n or_o nothing_o and_o then_o i_o leave_v it_o to_o he_o to_o judge_v whether_o that_o be_v not_o the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n necessary_o according_a to_o his_o ground_n that_o give_v the_o be_v thereunto_o second_o if_o by_o such_o he_o mean_v those_o he_o be_v a_o opponent_n of_o in_o the_o former_a matter_n of_o the_o church_n continuation_n and_o likewise_o baptism_n under_o popish_a defection_n i_o shall_v add_v a_o little_a in_o the_o way_n of_o defence_n first_o grant_v that_o such_o hold_v indeed_o no_o church_n to_o wit_n right_o constitute_v as_o a_o right_n or_o lawful_a ministerial_a church_n without_o or_o before_o the_o matter_n of_o this_o church_n be_v baptize_v second_o deny_v that_o in_o so_o hold_v they_o make_v baptism_n the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n as_o he_o infer_v and_o so_o make_v baptism_n the_o form_n there_o be_v more_o go_v to_o the_o proof_n of_o a_o matter_n then_o so_o his_o five_o reason_n may_v well_o have_v be_v spare_v by_o which_o he_o will_v prove_v baptism_n not_o to_o be_v the_o form_n of_o the_o church_n till_o he_o have_v make_v that_o to_o appear_v to_o be_v of_o necessity_n the_o right_a consequence_n which_o sure_o he_o be_v never_o able_a to_o do_v for_o there_o be_v no_o right_a ministerial_a church_n of_o old_a without_o circumcision_n yet_o circumcision_n be_v not_o the_o form_n of_o that_o church_n a_o uncircumcised_a person_n be_v not_o to_o be_v admit_v a_o member_n much_o less_o a_o officer_n circumcision_n be_v then_o a_o external_a qualification_n of_o the_o matter_n as_o in_o like_a manner_n be_v baptism_n now_o in_o this_o matter_n we_o shall_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o first_o beginning_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o of_o baptism_n john_n the_o baptist_n the_o forerunner_n of_o christ_n send_v of_o god_n to_o prepare_v the_o way_n of_o his_o son_n according_a to_o commission_n baptize_v much_o people_n as_o do_v also_o afterward_o the_o disciple_n of_o christ_n our_o lord_n to_o he_o repair_v our_o lord_n to_o be_v baptize_v that_o righteousness_n may_v be_v fulfil_v it_o may_v be_v observe_v by_o the_o way_n that_o this_o be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n of_o these_o thus_o baptize_v be_v the_o church_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n begin_v whether_o the_o initiation_n of_o it_o be_v refer_v to_o the_o time_n before_o the_o passion_n of_o our_o lord_n as_o to_o himself_o and_o the_o twelve_o with_o who_o he_o break_v bread_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v refer_v to_o the_o time_n after_o his_o resurrection_n when_o he_o gather_v the_o 120._o together_o and_o bless_a they_o as_o be_v most_o 1._o act_n 1._o proper_a let_v he_o take_v his_o choice_n and_o refer_v to_o which_o he_o will_v it_o be_v begin_v of_o the_o aforesaid_a baptize_v matter_n which_o be_v certain_o to_o the_o life_n of_o the_o matter_n in_o hand_n in_o discover_v that_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o church_n be_v fit_v by_o baptism_n before_o it_o be_v lay_v together_o as_o be_v the_o church_n at_o the_o first_o rise_v of_o it_o so_o be_v the_o proceed_v those_o 120._o baptize_v those_o that_o join_v with_o they_o be_v not_o before_o baptize_v as_o it_o be_v write_v they_o be_v baptize_v and_o add_v to_o the_o church_n this_o first_o church_n scatter_v by_o persecution_n become_v the_o instrument_n of_o increase_n and_o the_o first_o matter_n of_o many_o church_n which_o church_n by_o their_o instrument_n baptize_v such_o as_o receive_v the_o faith_n and_o join_v into_o the_o lord_n and_o thus_o be_v the_o church_n and_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n spread_v throughout_o the_o world_n as_o the_o holy_a history_n do_v show_v and_o let_v j._n s._n or_o any_o of_o his_o way_n show_v that_o there_o be_v ever_o any_o unbaptised_a church_n or_o congregation_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n or_o that_o ever_o any_o unbaptised_a person_n be_v receive_v into_o fellowship_n or_o that_o ever_o any_o unbaptised_a person_n after_o baptism_n be_v a_o foot_n in_o the_o world_n baptize_v or_o be_v authorize_v for_o to_o do_v it_o and_o last_o let_v he_o tell_v i_o whether_o the_o order_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n as_o in_o another_o case_n he_o ask_v be_v not_o as_o strict_a in_o this_o case_n of_o baptism_n as_o it_o be_v in_o circumcision_n of_o old_a when_o no_o uncircumcised_a may_v have_v part_n in_o the_o church_n or_o fellowship_n in_o the_o ordinance_n much_o less_o act_n ordinance_n 44._o esek_n 44._o in_o way_n of_o dispense_n of_o they_o to_o other_o and_o let_v he_o tell_v i_o whether_o a_o precept_n or_o example_n be_v not_o as_o necessary_a in_o all_o those_o case_n as_o in_o that_o of_o baptise_v infant_n and_o last_o whether_o his_o practice_n of_o raise_v and_o begin_v the_o church_n of_o unbaptised_a person_n do_v agree_v with_o the_o primitive_a practice_n of_o our_o lord_n and_o his_o apostle_n that_o begin_v the_o church_n of_o baptize_v matter_n as_o before_o j._n s._n propound_v a_o second_o reason_n of_o his_o opponent_n thus_o the_o scripture_n speak_v of_o no_o church_n before_o baptism_n to_o which_o he_o answer_v as_o he_o do_v to_o that_o of_o the_o gate_n of_o hell_n not_o prevail_v against_o the_o church_n he_o must_v distinguish_v he_o say_v a_o mere_a shift_n to_o blind_v his_o reader_n and_o avoid_v the_o truth_n there_o need_v no_o distinction_n at_o all_o in_o the_o case_n he_o will_v not_o take_v it_o well_o if_o any_o shall_v distinguish_v in_o case_n of_o infant_n baptism_n but_o what_o be_v his_o distinction_n it_o be_v betwixt_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o baptism_n and_o the_o administration_n of_o it_o just_a as_o he_o do_v in_o the_o forenamed_a case_n as_o much_o as_o if_o he_o have_v say_v he_o must_v distinguish_v betwixt_o the_o scripture_n that_o teach_v baptism_n and_o baptism_n or_o wash_v according_a to_o the_o scripture_n in_o this_o first_o sense_n baptism_n or_o the_o doctrine_n of_o baptism_n as_o much_o as_o if_o he_o have_v say_v the_o holy_a word_n of_o god_n be_v before_o the_o church_n what_o this_o be_v to_o the_o purpose_n be_v beyond_o my_o judgement_n nor_o yet_o that_o which_o follow_v no_o church_n according_a to_o the_o order_n of_o christ_n testament_n without_o it_o or_o before_o it_o no_o church_n without_o or_o before_o the_o scripture_n how_o this_o be_v to_o the_o matter_n in_o hand_n and_o what_o clear_v or_o rather_o darken_n there_o be_v in_o this_o distinction_n i_o leave_v the_o reader_n to_o judge_v but_o now_o for_o the_o second_o part_n of_o the_o distinction_n namely_o the_o outward_a administration_n of_o baptism_n that_o ever_o follow_v the_o saint_n join_v in_o fellowship_n by_o mutual_a faith_n and_o agreement_n in_o the_o doctrine_n wherein_o consist_v the_o state_v of_o the_o church_n in_o her_o conjoin_v in_o covenant_n which_o ever_o go_v before_o in_o the_o administration_n of_o baptism_n and_o give_v power_n and_o authority_n for_o the_o same_o so_o say_v he_o in_o the_o first_o sense_n the_o church_n be_v not_o before_o baptism_n but_o in_o the_o last_o it_o be_v answ_n the_o sum_n and_o scope_n of_o this_o whole_a matter_n amplify_v and_o enlarge_v be_v utter_o false_a be_v refer_v to_o the_o purpose_n for_o which_o j._n s._n do_v bring_v it_o namely_o to_o prove_v a_o unbaptised_a church_n or_o the_o scripture_n speak_v of_o such_o alas_o this_o be_v far_o from_o prove_v the_o matter_n no_o not_o in_o a_o seem_a way_n in_o this_o case_n it_o may_v be_v true_o say_v from_o the_o beginning_n it_o be_v not_o so_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o church_n be_v fit_v outward_o by_o baptism_n as_o be_v before_o declare_v and_o the_o scripture_n give_v no_o precedent_n of_o such_o church_n officer_n or_o member_n at_o any_o time_n such_o a_o proceed_v be_v clean_o beside_o the_o scripture_n 2._o j._n s._n deceive_v if_o not_o himself_o yet_o other_o in_o what_o he_o set_v down_o in_o refer_v that_o to_o the_o initiation_n of_o a_o church_n which_o be_v only_o true_a of_o the_o proceed_v the_o church_n state_v and_o on_o foot_n in_o the_o world_n according_a to_o god_n of_o baptize_v person_n baptize_v other_o in_o way_n of_o proceed_v in_o a_o orderly_a way_n of_o administration_n so_o it_o be_v at_o the_o beginning_n and_o to_o begin_v otherwise_o be_v not_o according_a to_o the_o pattern_n so_o as_o not_o take_v notice_n of_o the_o difference_n between_o right_a beginning_n and_o orderly_o proceed_v he_o be_v clean_o out_o and_o beside_o the_o truth_n and_o his_o distinction_n will_v appear_v to_o be_v vain_a and_o to_o no_o purpose_n unless_o to_o deceive_v for_o as_o he_o set_v down_o that_o baptism_n ever_o follow_v in_o regard_n of_o the_o administration_n of_o it_o the_o saint_n join_v in_o