but_o of_o what_o be_v to_o be_v require_v of_o such_o as_o join_v unto_o a_o church_n for_o a_o church_n may_v be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o yet_o be_v very_o corrupt_a as_o be_v general_o observe_v by_o protestant_a writer_n hoth_v out_o of_o the_o example_n of_o some_o church_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o that_o of_o the_o old_a in_o the_o great_a apostasy_n thereof_o we_o think_v in_o this_o same_o doctor_n field_n expression_n may_v be_v safe_o 7_o receive_v some_o profess_v christ_n say_v he_o but_o not_o whole_o and_o entire_o as_o heretic_n some_o profess_v the_o whole_a save_a truth_n but_o not_o in_o unity_n as_o schismatic_n some_o profess_v it_o in_o untie_v but_o not_o in_o sincerity_n as_o profane_a person_n and_o hypocrite_n some_o in_o unity_n and_o sincerity_n all_o these_o be_v partaker_n of_o the_o heavenly_a call_n by_o profession_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o consequent_o in_o some_o degree_n and_o sort_n the_o church_n etc._n etc._n but_o we_o think_v that_o this_o be_v no_o argument_n that_o either_o heretic_n schismatickes_n profane_a person_n or_o hypocrite_n if_o convictive_o discover_v that_o such_o be_v meet_a matter_n to_o be_v join_v to_o a_o church_n second_o when_o a_o work_n of_o grace_n be_v require_v and_o desire_v of_o those_o who_o be_v to_o join_v to_o a_o church_n the_o meaning_n be_v not_o as_o if_o we_o allow_v none_o to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n but_o real_a saint_n and_o such_o as_o give_v demonstrative_a evidence_n of_o be_v member_n of_o the_o invisible_a church_n for_o we_o profess_v according_a to_o the_o scripture_n and_o general_a doctrine_n of_o all_o reform_a church_n what_o ever_o their_o practice_n be_v that_o it_o be_v not_o real_a but_o visible_a faith_n not_o the_o inward_a be_v but_o the_o outward_a profession_n of_o faith_n whence_o man_n be_v call_v visible_a saint_n that_o constitute_v a_o visible_a church_n which_o faith_n so_o profess_v be_v call_v visible_a not_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o certainty_n from_o such_o infallible_a sign_n of_o it_o as_o may_v demonstrate_v the_o hide_a be_v of_o it_o within_o but_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o charity_n which_o hope_v the_o best_a 1_o cor._n 12_o 7_o in_o the_o weak_a christian_n and_o mean_a profession_n even_o when_o it_o sometime_o fear_v the_o worst_a and_o be_v not_o able_a at_o the_o present_a to_o convince_v the_o contrary_n three_o this_o judgement_n of_o charity_n concern_v the_o truth_n of_o another_o profession_n or_o that_o which_o be_v call_v the_o work_n of_o grace_n be_v to_o be_v regulate_v by_o the_o word_n which_o christ_n have_v leave_v as_o a_o complete_a rule_n not_o only_o of_o faith_n but_o also_o of_o love_n and_o charity_n to_o guide_v both_o in_o their_o act_n unto_o their_o end_n and_o hence_o large_a profession_n and_o long_a relation_n of_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n though_o full_a of_o exceed_a glory_n when_o humble_o and_o prudent_o make_v we_o exact_v not_o rigorous_o and_o necessary_o of_o all_o because_o the_o rule_n of_o charity_n direct_v we_o not_o so_o to_o judge_v because_o many_o christian_n may_v be_v draw_v to_o christ_n and_o have_v a_o seed_n of_o faith_n yet_o may_v sometime_o not_o know_v it_o sometime_o remember_v not_o the_o work_n of_o it_o sometime_o through_o bashfulness_n fear_n want_v of_o part_n nor_o not_o train_v up_o under_o a_o know_a ministry_n not_o be_v able_a to_o profess_v it_o so_o full_o and_o clear_o hence_o also_o to_o keep_v out_o other_o from_o communion_n out_o of_o groundless_a fear_n that_o all_o their_o profession_n may_v be_v in_o hypocrisy_n we_o allow_v not_o because_o no_o man_n in_o his_o charity_n be_v to_o be_v rule_v by_o his_o fear_n but_o by_o the_o word_n hence_o also_o to_o account_v any_o unfit_a for_o the_o church_n because_o their_o heart_n can_v close_v with_o they_o or_o because_o they_o like_v not_o their_o spirit_n speak_v not_o with_o favour_n or_o any_o such_o like_a principle_n and_o yet_o can_v give_v no_o rule_n or_o convict_a argument_n from_o the_o word_n why_o thus_o they_o do_v we_o think_v be_v rigour_n not_o charity_n regulate_v by_o the_o word_n for_o humane_a charity_n do_v not_o make_v god_n church_n but_o such_o person_n which_o from_o god_n according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o god_n charity_n be_v to_o receive_v and_o therefore_o the_o rule_n be_v to_o be_v attend_v here_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o look_v for_o a_o ground_n of_o certainty_n to_o faith_n but_o not_o for_o charity_n which_o can_v be_v infallible_o certain_a of_o another_o estate_n and_o therefore_o upon_o a_o hopeful_a supposition_n that_o the_o premise_n their_o profession_n be_v true_a hopeful_o only_o make_v the_o conclusion_n the_o question_n â—eing_v bring_v to_o this_o narrow_a it_o will_v here_o lie_v viz._n first_o whether_o profession_n of_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n and_o faith_n be_v not_o require_v of_o those_o that_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n second_o with_o what_o profession_n of_o the_o work_n of_o grace_n charity_n according_a to_o a_o rule_n be_v to_o rest_v satisfy_v the_o first_o we_o think_v be_v write_v with_o the_o beam_n of_o the_o sun_n for_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o neither_o the_o lord_n in_o the_o old_a testament_n exod._n 19_o or_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n act_n 2._o and_o in_o other_o like_a scripture_n do_v call_v for_o a_o profession_n of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n only_o but_o especial_o of_o the_o work_n of_o faith_n for_o when_o the_o lord_n promise_v to_o be_v a_o god_n to_o his_o people_n exd._n 19_o deut._n 29._o it_o be_v not_o with_o this_o condition_n if_o they_o do_v believe_v his_o word_n to_o be_v true_a etc._n etc._n but_o if_o they_o will_v hear_v his_o voice_n and_o keep_v his_o covenant_n which_o in_o a_o prepare_a people_n be_v a_o manifestation_n of_o a_o work_n of_o grace_n so_o when_o the_o apostle_n be_v require_v to_o go_v preach_v to_o all_o nation_n and_o baptize_v they_o and_o teach_v they_o look_v as_o they_o do_v require_v such_o a_o faith_n as_o be_v save_v he_o that_o believe_v shall_v be_v save_v so_o upon_o the_o profession_n thereof_o they_o do_v receive_v they_o as_o also_o appear_v act_v 2._o 38._o which_o therefore_o can_v not_o be_v of_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n for_o that_o the_o devil_n do_v and_o tremble_v and_o profane_a man_n of_o much_o knowledge_n may_v do_v and_o yet_o unfit_a to_o be_v receive_v and_o therefore_o it_o be_v of_o the_o work_n of_o faith_n and_o therefore_o act._n 8._o 37._o philip_n not_o only_o require_v faith_n but_o a_o believe_a with_o all_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o eunuch_n and_o upon_o such_o a_o profession_n baptize_v he_o and_o hence_o the_o church_n erect_v by_o the_o apostle_n at_o corinth_n colosse_n ephesus_n etc._n etc._n be_v call_v saint_n and_o sanctify_v of_o god_n in_o christ_n jesus_n etc._n etc._n how_o be_v it_o because_o debito_fw-la and_o de_fw-la jure_fw-la only_o they_o shall_v be_v so_o then_o all_o who_o hear_v the_o gospel_n though_o they_o reject_v it_o may_v be_v call_v a_o church_n for_o de_fw-fr jure_fw-la they_o ought_v to_o be_v so_o or_o be_v it_o because_o there_o be_v some_o that_o be_v true_o such_o among_o they_o and_o so_o in_o concreto_fw-la be_v call_v a_o church_n and_o body_n of_o christ_n not_o only_o so_o for_o there_o may_v be_v some_o visible_a church_n of_o visible_a saint_n and_o yet_o none_o among_o they_o of_o the_o invisible_a church_n unless_o any_o will_v think_v that_o to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n invisible_a be_v essential_a to_o the_o be_v and_o title_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v from_o their_o profession_n of_o save_a faith_n which_o they_o maintain_v be_v a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v require_v to_o the_o gather_n into_o a_o church_n john_n baptist_n also_o though_o he_o baptize_v none_o into_o a_o new_a church_n and_o therefore_o may_v require_v the_o less_o yet_o as_o he_o real_o promise_v remission_n of_o sin_n by_o the_o messiah_n so_o he_o require_v that_o very_a faith_n and_o repentance_n which_o may_v make_v they_o partaker_n of_o this_o heavenly_a benefit_n and_o therefore_o if_o what_o he_o require_v they_o manifest_v by_o their_o profession_n and_o confession_n of_o sin_n it_o be_v not_o only_o to_o believe_v the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n but_o a_o save_a work_n of_o faith_n which_o they_o hold_v forth_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o a_o outward_a profession_n of_o faith_n according_a to_o a_o creed_n which_o be_v require_v for_o then_o a_o papist_n be_v fit_a matter_n for_o a_o church_n nor_o willingness_n to_o hear_v the_o word_n and_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n for_o then_o heap_n of_o profane_a person_n be_v to_o be_v receive_v into_o the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v profession_n of_o a_o work_n and_o save_a work_n
in_o the_o high_a sanhedrin_n of_o israel_n but_o there_o be_v not_o in_o the_o church_n nor_o like_v to_o be_v such_o a_o supreme_a court_n where_o such_o appeal_n may_v be_v end_v ergo._fw-la object_n 2_o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o what_o a_o particular_a church_n bind_v on_o earth_n be_v bind_v in_o heaven_n except_o they_o err_v but_o then_o appeal_n may_v be_v make_v and_o their_o power_n be_v go_v answ_n on_o this_o ground_n the_o universal_a church_n shall_v not_o have_v power_n to_o bind_v on_o earth_n so_o as_o in_o heaven_n without_o appeal_n for_o they_o may_v err_v and_o that_o not_o only_o rare_o but_o frequent_o witness_v the_o complaint_n of_o nazianzen_n and_o other_o of_o the_o time_n pass_v yea_o they_o may_v be_v as_o much_o incline_v to_o err_v consider_v the_o great_a part_n of_o church_n in_o the_o world_n be_v for_o the_o most_o part_n corrupt_v yea_o though_o they_o may_v have_v better_a eye_n yet_o they_o be_v further_o from_o the_o mark_n if_o particular_a church_n have_v no_o power_n of_o excommunication_n because_o they_o may_v err_v be_v corrupt_a be_v partial_a or_o be_v divide_v upon_o the_o same_o consideration_n neither_o classical_a national_n or_o oecumeniall_a counsel_n have_v any_o such_o power_n for_o they_o may_v err_v grow_v corrupt_a be_v partial_a and_o be_v miserable_o divide_v as_o well_o as_o a_o congregationall_a church_n other_o church_n may_v admonish_v in_o case_n of_o scandal_n and_o counsel_n when_o a_o particular_a congregation_n want_v light_a and_o moderate_a if_o desire_v in_o case_n of_o difference_n but_o still_o the_o power_n be_v in_o the_o particular_a church_n other_o argument_n may_v be_v add_v but_o see_v this_o controversy_n as_o we_o hope_v will_v be_v more_o full_o and_o purposely_o dispute_v by_o a_o far_o better_a hand_n therefore_o we_o shall_v fall_v to_o the_o consideration_n of_o such_o scripture_n and_o some_o few_o general_a argument_n which_o we_o meet_v withal_o in_o mr._n ball_n brief_o propound_v and_o in_o divers_a other_o author_n more_o large_o insist_v upon_o which_o if_o the_o lord_n be_v please_v to_o help_v we_o to_o vindicate_v and_o clear_v up_o we_o think_v other_o reason_n and_o scripture_n of_o less_o force_n will_v fall_v of_o themselves_o and_o first_o we_o find_v cant._n 6._o 4._o etc._n etc._n to_o prove_v the_o whole_a catholic_n church_n visible_a to_o be_v one_o ministerial_a body_n because_o it_o be_v call_v one_o compare_v to_o a_o army_n terrible_a with_o banner_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o order_n of_o discipline_n and_o describe_v as_o be_v a_o organical_a body_n have_v eye_n hair_z tooth_n etc._n etc._n answ_n 1_o theologia_n symbolica_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la argumentativa_fw-la except_o it_o can_v be_v make_v clear_a that_o the_o parable_n be_v apply_v according_a to_o the_o true_a scope_n of_o it_o and_o no_o further_o which_o here_o be_v very_o hard_a to_o evince_v we_o know_v the_o whole_a book_n of_o the_o canticle_n be_v various_o apply_v by_o good_a interpreter_n brightman_n none_o of_o the_o mean_a in_o this_o kind_n of_o loc._n scripture_n apply_v this_o place_n to_o the_o church_n of_o geneva_n and_o the_o time_n of_o pure_a church_n to_o arise_v after_o it_o which_o be_v say_v to_o be_v terrible_a as_o a_o army_n with_o banner_n not_o in_o respect_n of_o discipline_n but_o in_o respect_n of_o warlike_a power_n whereby_o that_o state_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v defend_v itself_o 2_o but_o suppose_v that_o it_o be_v a_o description_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n visible_a yet_o it_o can_v be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n that_o it_o be_v one_o ministerial_a church_n for_o first_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v the_o same_o in_o all_o age_n and_o therefore_o by_o this_o reason_n it_o be_v a_o catholic_a ministerial_a body_n as_o well_o in_o the_o day_n from_o adam_n to_o abraham_n etc._n etc._n as_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n second_o by_o this_o argument_n we_o may_v prove_v christ_n the_o head_n and_o husband_n of_o the_o church_n to_o be_v a_o organical_a body_n as_o he_o be_v the_o head_n of_o the_o church_n for_o cant._n 5._o 10_o 11._o etc._n etc._n the_o church_n do_v allegorical_o describe_v the_o beauty_n and_o excellency_n of_o christ_n in_o several_a organ_n and_o part_n but_o we_o suppose_v though_o christ_n jesus_n in_o his_o humane_a nature_n have_v member_n yet_o the_o scope_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o at_o all_o to_o set_v forth_o the_o member_n of_o his_o humane_a body_n but_o the_o glorious_a excellency_n and_o spiritual_a perfection_n of_o christ_n as_o the_o redeemer_n and_o saviour_n of_o his_o church_n according_a to_o the_o manner_n of_o lover_n who_o be_v take_v with_o the_o beauty_n of_o their_o spouse_n in_o all_o their_o member_n when_o the_o spouse_n say_v cant._n 1._o 1._o let_v he_o kiss_v i_o with_o the_o kiss_n of_o his_o mouth_n it_o be_v too_o gross_a to_o apply_v it_o to_o the_o humanity_n of_o christ_n or_o to_o argue_v from_o thence_o that_o christ_n the_o husband_n of_o his_o church_n be_v a_o organical_a body_n three_o and_o last_o when_o the_o church_n be_v call_v one_o the_o only_a one_o of_o her_o mother_n though_o it_o be_v true_a she_o be_v one_o it_o seem_v rather_o to_o set_v out_o her_o excellency_n as_o rare_a and_o but_o one_o than_o her_o unity_n and_o so_o the_o other_o description_n all_o tend_v to_o set_v forth_o her_o beauty_n in_o the_o eye_n and_o esteem_v of_o christ_n neither_o be_v it_o any_o thing_n that_o the_o church_n be_v compare_v to_o a_o army_n terrible_a with_o banner_n for_o in_o the_o same_o chap._n vers_fw-la the_o last_o she_o be_v compare_v to_o the_o company_n of_o mahanaim_n or_o two_o army_n which_o be_v all_o one_o for_o the_o company_n of_o mahanaim_n consist_v of_o two_o army_n gen._n 32._o 1_o 2_o 3._o where_o jacob_n host_n meet_v a_o host_n of_o angel_n he_o call_v the_o place_n mahanaim_n or_o two_o host_n and_o therefore_o we_o may_v as_o well_o say_v the_o catholic_n church_n be_v terrible_a with_o two_o army_n of_o banner_n as_o one_o answ_n a_o second_o and_o chief_a scripture_n we_o meet_v withal_o in_o divers_a author_n be_v 1_o cor._n 12._o 12_o 13._o etc._n etc._n whence_o the_o reason_n stand_v thus_o that_o church_n wherein_o apostle_n prophet_n teacher_n etc._n etc._n be_v set_v be_v a_o organical_a church_n but_o those_o be_v set_v in_o the_o catholic_n visible_a church_n ergo._fw-la for_o the_o better_a clear_n of_o this_o scripture_n it_o be_v needful_a that_o we_o attend_v the_o scope_n of_o the_o apostle_n who_o come_v now_o to_o another_o branch_n of_o the_o thing_n this_o church_n have_v write_v unto_o he_o about_o chap._n 7._o 1._o &_o 8._o 1._o &_o 12._o 1._o and_o this_o about_o spiritual_a gift_n wherein_o they_o abound_v chap._n 1._o 7._o be_v the_o occasion_n of_o all_o their_o contention_n and_o disorder_n chap._n 1._o 12_o 13._o hence_o he_o be_v studious_a the_o more_o to_o reunite_v they_o again_o chap._n 12._o 13._o and_o to_o direct_v they_o how_o to_o improve_v their_o gift_n orderly_o to_o edification_n chap._n 14._o and_o in_o this_o chapter_n he_o persuade_v their_o mind_n to_o unity_n who_o be_v divide_v partly_o through_o pride_n in_o their_o own_o gift_n partly_o by_o disdain_n of_o other_o not_o so_o gift_v hence_o he_o put_v they_o in_o mind_n 1_o what_o once_o they_o be_v follow_v dumb_a idol_n 2_o that_o all_o gift_n be_v from_o the_o free_a dispensation_n of_o god_n and_o that_o one_o god_n one_o lord_n one_o spirit_n 3_o that_o god_n in_o his_o wisdom_n have_v dispense_v great_a variety_n of_o gift_n operation_n and_o administration_n 4_o that_o all_o be_v give_v to_o profit_v withal_o and_o these_o thing_n he_o illustrate_v by_o a_o simile_n take_v from_o a_o natural_a body_n which_o have_v large_o present_v and_o apply_v to_o this_o church_n vers_fw-la 27._o he_o conclude_v with_o the_o variety_n of_o administration_n in_o such_o thing_n wherein_o they_o so_o much_o differ_v chap._n 1._o 12_o 13._o god_n have_v set_v say_v he_o in_o the_o church_n not_o only_a apostle_n or_o prophet_n or_o tongue_n etc._n etc._n but_o all_o these_o be_v all_o apostle_n be_v all_o prophet_n &_o c_o no_o but_o the_o wisdom_n of_o god_n have_v give_v you_o variety_n of_o these_o gift_n and_o administration_n and_o therefore_o chap._n 3._o to_o quiet_v they_o he_o say_v paul_n a_o apostle_n apollo_n a_o evangelist_n etc._n etc._n all_o be_v you_o and_o as_o this_o be_v the_o scope_n of_o the_o apostle_n so_o we_o see_v nothing_o in_o the_o chapter_n but_o be_v appliable_a to_o corinth_n in_o particular_a yea_o apply_v unto_o they_o by_o the_o apostle_n as_o what_o he_o speak_v vers_fw-la 22._o of_o one_o body_n he_o apply_v to_o they_o vers_n 27._o what_o he_o speak_v vers_fw-la 28._o of_o apostle_n and_o
that_o the_o apostle_n do_v walk_v by_o ordinary_a rule_n general_o reply_n four_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n in_o receive_v the_o faithful_a etc._n etc._n be_v back_v on_o divine_a precept_n etc._n etc._n answ_n if_o you_o mean_v they_o baptize_v such_o without_o receive_v they_o into_o some_o particular_a church_n we_o deny_v this_o assumption_n upon_o the_o ground_n lay_v down_o before_o reply_n five_o in_o the_o first_o consideration_n you_o prove_v the_o seal_n to_o be_v the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n in_o ordinary_a dispensation_n by_o this_o passage_n of_o scripture_n then_o they_o that_o glad_o receive_v the_o word_n be_v baptize_v but_o if_o the_o apostle_n baptize_v by_o extraordinary_a dispensation_n in_o your_o sense_n this_o testimony_n be_v insufficient_a for_o that_o purpose_n answ_n although_o the_o print_a copy_n of_o our_o answer_n omit_v this_o proof_n whole_o and_o also_o rom._n 9_o 4_o yet_o in_o our_o true_a cypy_n we_o allege_v act_v 2_o 41_o 42._o 47._o wherein_o you_o will_v find_v not_o only_o this_o passage_n then_o they_o that_o glad_o receive_v the_o word_n be_v baptize_v but_o withal_o that_o they_o be_v add_v to_o the_o church_n and_o such_o a_o church_n as_o continue_v steadfast_o in_o the_o fellowship_n etc._n etc._n of_o the_o apostle_n likewise_o verse_n 47._o that_o the_o conversion_n and_o baptise_v of_o disciple_n be_v omit_v the_o join_n or_o add_v to_o the_o church_n be_v put_v in_o the_o stead_n thereof_o which_o proof_n as_o they_o be_v omit_v whole_o in_o the_o print_a copy_n so_o also_o you_o make_v no_o reply_n unto_o they_o second_o by_o these_o proof_n it_o may_v easy_o have_v be_v see_v that_o we_o do_v not_o look_v upon_o all_o the_o apostle_n act_n in_o this_o case_n of_o baptism_n as_o extraordinary_a but_o that_o their_o first_o and_o lead_v example_n be_v ordinary_a and_o in_o that_o order_n we_o plead_v for_o which_o if_o it_o have_v be_v regard_v much_o labour_n have_v be_v save_v in_o this_o dispute_n which_o have_v be_v spend_v to_o little_a purpose_n and_o our_o second_o reason_n reply_n in_o due_a order_n the_o sealeâ—_n belong_v to_o they_o to_o who_o the_o grant_n be_v give_v but_o the_o grant_n be_v vouchsafe_v to_o the_o faithful_a and_o their_o seed_n forgiveness_n of_o sin_n etc._n etc._n and_o the_o benefit_n of_o the_o covenant_n be_v so_o link_v together_o that_o where_o one_o be_v grant_v none_o be_v deny_v etc._n etc._n answ_n it_o be_v true_a the_o seal_n belong_v to_o all_o they_o by_o a_o remote_a right_n to_o who_o the_o grant_n be_v give_v as_o have_v be_v oft_o say_v but_o not_o immediate_a yet_o in_o the_o very_o propound_v of_o this_o reason_n we_o may_v observe_v two_o thing_n that_o do_v cut_v the_o â—â—ewes_n of_o it_o 1_o the_o limitation_n of_o due_a order_n which_o as_o have_v be_v say_v can_v no_o where_o be_v find_v but_o in_o a_o particular_a church_n let_v any_o show_n what_o order_n christ_n have_v put_v his_o catholic_n visible_a church_n into_o or_o where_o that_o order_n be_v to_o be_v see_v but_o in_o particular_a church_n by_o which_o order_n every_o one_o be_v bind_v to_o join_v to_o such_o church_n as_o well_o as_o to_o partake_v in_o the_o outward_a ordinance_n of_o god_n worship_n which_o be_v there_o only_o to_o be_v find_v second_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o not_o only_a forgiveness_n of_o sin_n but_o all_o other_o benefit_n of_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n be_v link_v together_o and_o be_v the_o grant_v seal_v up_o in_o the_o sacrament_n and_o if_o so_o be_v not_o visible_a conjunction_n with_o christ_n and_o his_o church_n with_o all_o the_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n and_o ordinance_n of_o the_o same_o part_n of_o that_o grant_n by_o the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n or_o of_o the_o gospel_n we_o suppose_v none_o will_v deny_v it_o why_o then_o shall_v not_o visible_a believer_n require_v and_o take_v up_o this_o part_n of_o the_o grant_n as_o well_o as_o the_o seal_n of_o it_o for_o sigillum_fw-la sequitur_fw-la donum_fw-la let_v they_o take_v this_o gift_n and_o the_o seal_n be_v ready_a for_o they_o and_o this_o may_v answer_v the_o first_o part_n of_o the_o reply_n about_o rom._n 4._o 11._o as_o also_o all_o the_o rest_n which_o follow_v be_v thing_n so_o oft_o repeat_v and_o answer_v before_o as_o make_v it_o tedious_a to_o all_o chap._n xiiii_o position_n 5._o that_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n be_v so_o in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n that_o what_o the_o major_a part_n shall_v allow_v must_v be_v do_v though_o the_o pastor_n and_o governor_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o assembly_n be_v of_o another_o mind_n and_o that_o peradventure_o upon_o more_o substantial_a reason_n reply_n this_o question_n be_v much_o mistake_v for_o the_o demand_n be_v not_o whether_o in_o the_o congregation_n matter_n shall_v be_v carry_v by_o number_n of_o vote_n against_o god_n as_o you_o interpret_v the_o position_n but_o whether_o the_o power_n of_o excommunication_n so_o lie_v in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n as_o that_o sentence_n must_v proceed_v in_o externo_fw-la foro_fw-la according_a to_o the_o vote_n and_o determination_n of_o the_o major_a part_n and_o so_o in_o admission_n of_o member_n etc._n etc._n and_o though_o they_o have_v no_o power_n against_o god_n but_o for_o god_n yet_o in_o execution_n of_o that_o power_n they_o may_v be_v divide_v in_o judgement_n and_o one_o part_n must_v err_v now_o hence_o the_o question_n be_v move_v whether_o the_o power_n he_o so_o in_o the_o people_n that_o what_o the_o major_a part_n determine_v must_v stand_v answ_n if_o our_o whole_a answer_n have_v be_v attend_v unto_o it_o be_v so_o clear_a and_o full_a that_o it_o can_v not_o with_o any_o show_n of_o reason_n be_v subject_a to_o such_o a_o mistake_n to_o omit_v the_o first_o part_n of_o our_o answer_n affirmative_o wherein_o we_o cite_v mr._n parker_n as_o consent_v with_o he_o in_o the_o second_o part_n to_o the_o position_n as_o state_v our_o answer_n be_v plain_o negative_a that_o excommunication_n be_v not_o so_o seat_v neither_o aught_o to_o be_v so_o in_o any_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o lord_n jesus_n what_o follow_v be_v our_o reason_n ground_v upon_o the_o last_o clause_n of_o the_o position_n because_o church_n ought_v to_o carry_v thing_n not_o by_o number_n of_o vote_n against_o god_n as_o this_o position_n imply_v but_o by_o strength_n of_o rule_n and_o reason_n according_a to_o god_n and_o for_o edification_n 2_o cor._n 13._o 8._o 2_o cor._n 10._o 8._o now_o let_v any_o judge_n whether_o the_o position_n do_v not_o imply_v such_o a_o absurdity_n so_o oft_o as_o thing_n shall_v be_v carry_v by_o the_o major_a vote_n against_o the_o officer_n and_o the_o rest_n have_v better_a reason_n and_o therefore_o we_o be_v apt_a to_o think_v that_o if_o the_o learned_a author_n have_v be_v so_o ready_a to_o embrace_v any_o syllable_n that_o lend_v to_o dislodge_v these_o thought_n of_o we_o as_o lean_v to_o separation_n he_o will_v have_v believe_v our_o plain_a negation_n of_o this_o position_n which_o indeed_o be_v according_a to_o our_o constant_a practice_n never_o follow_v the_o major_a part_n of_o vote_n against_o the_o officer_n but_o count_v it_o the_o duty_n of_o the_o officer_n in_o such_o case_n either_o to_o satisfy_v the_o conscience_n of_o the_o major_a part_n or_o lesser_a by_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n or_o to_o yield_v not_o to_o the_o vote_n but_o reason_n if_o they_o be_v stranger_n or_o to_o suspend_v the_o business_n and_o refer_v to_o the_o counsel_n of_o other_o church_n if_o they_o can_v agree_v but_o a_o division_n arise_v according_a to_o the_o pattern_n act._n 15._o reply_n among_o they_o that_o hold_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o church_n some_o as_o fenner_n parker_n i._o d._n distinguish_v between_o the_o power_n itself_o which_o they_o give_v to_o the_o church_n and_o the_o execution_n which_o they_o confine_v to_o the_o presbytery_n other_o give_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n with_o the_o exercise_n thereof_o to_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o church_n or_o if_o in_o the_o dispensation_n they_o attribute_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o officer_n it_o be_v but_o as_o servant_n of_o the_o church_n from_o who_o they_o derive_v their_o authority_n and_o here_o lie_v the_o stone_n at_o which_o the_o separation_n stumble_v and_o which_o we_o conceive_v to_o be_v your_o judgement_n and_o practice_n wherein_o we_o require_v your_o plain_a answer_n but_o have_v receive_v no_o satisfaction_n you_o refer_v we_o to_o mr._n parker_n reason_n to_o prove_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n belong_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n who_o be_v of_o far_o differ_v judgement_n from_o he_o in_o the_o point_n itself_o and_o if_o your_o judgement_n and_o
liturgy_n of_o which_o judgement_n we_o be_v answ_n it_o matter_n not_o whether_o they_o see_v so_o far_o and_o so_o judge_v if_o indeed_o the_o reason_n and_o nature_n of_o ceremony_n and_o the_o book_n be_v the_o same_o for_o the_o first_o reformer_n think_v their_o argument_n strong_a against_o oil_n cream_n and_o spittle_n etc._n etc._n in_o baptism_n but_o see_v not_o that_o they_o will_v hold_v against_o the_o cross_n surplice_n etc._n etc._n as_o well_o yet_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o the_o reverend_a author_n do_v judge_v of_o all_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n and_o so_o it_o be_v in_o this_o case_n reply_n advert_v 4._o if_o these_o reason_n be_v intend_v only_o to_o show_v why_o you_o receive_v not_o our_o form_n of_o administration_n it_o be_v that_o which_o we_o be_v persuade_v you_o know_v we_o never_o require_v of_o you_o if_o to_o disallow_v the_o use_n of_o the_o book_n among_o we_o altogether_o in_o thing_n lawful_a good_a and_o pertinent_a they_o will_v not_o hold_v weight_n answ_n 1_o we_o be_v tell_v in_o the_o first_o epistle_n of_o our_o reverend_n and_o dear_a brethren_n that_o while_o we_o live_v in_o england_n we_o join_v in_o the_o same_o ordinance_n and_o purity_n of_o worship_n and_o therefore_o we_o may_v have_v some_o just_a cause_n to_o clear_v up_o our_o differ_a practice_n from_o disuse_v that_o form_n of_o administration_n there_o consider_v that_o our_o differ_a practice_n may_v occasion_v other_o to_o rend_v off_o from_o your_o administration_n there_o whereof_o you_o complain_v 2_o we_o doubt_v not_o but_o in_o the_o popish_a form_n of_o mass_n matten_n and_o evensong_n etc._n etc._n some_o thing_n lawful_a good_a and_o pertinent_a may_v be_v find_v yet_o will_v not_o the_o godly_a allow_v these_o very_a reason_n we_o allege_v in_o the_o answer_n sufficient_a to_o refuse_v the_o whole_a form_n and_o so_o those_o good_a and_o lawful_a thing_n in_o that_o form_n as_o that_o they_o be_v devise_v by_o man_n without_o the_o command_n of_o god_n impose_v by_o a_o antichristian_a power_n abuse_v to_o idolatry_n and_o superstition_n wherein_o the_o people_n place_n much_o holiness_n and_o necessity_n full_a of_o scandal_n etc._n etc._n and_o if_o these_o reason_n do_v not_o hold_v against_o this_o form_n in_o the_o communion_n book_n the_o reply_n shall_v have_v acquit_v it_o from_o they_o or_o else_o the_o consequence_n must_v be_v yield_v in_o this_o case_n as_o in_o the_o other_o notwithstanding_o all_o the_o good_a and_o pertinent_a thing_n therein_o john_n simâ—son_n and_o john_n ardly_a martyr_n in_o q._n mary_n day_n and_o faithful_a witness_n make_v answer_v to_o the_o six_o article_n of_o bonner_n concern_v the_o mass_n that_o it_o be_v of_o the_o pope_n not_o of_o christ_n and_o therefore_o not_o good_a not_o have_v in_o it_o any_o goodness_n save_v gloria_fw-la in_o excelsis_fw-la the_o epistle_n and_o gospel_n the_o creed_n and_o pater_fw-la noster_fw-la and_o for_o this_o cause_n they_o say_v they_o have_v not_o nor_o will_v not_o come_v to_o hear_v mass_n the_o same_o answer_n be_v make_v by_o six_o more_o in_o those_o day_n mention_v by_o mr._n fox_n if_o therefore_o corrupt_a form_n may_v be_v use_v because_o of_o some_o thing_n good_a and_o lawful_a mix_v with_o they_o there_o shall_v have_v be_v show_v we_o some_o proof_n for_o it_o but_o if_o the_o meaning_n be_v that_o there_o may_v be_v a_o lawful_a use_n of_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v lawful_a and_o good_a in_o it_o we_o say_v so_o too_o due_a circumstance_n of_o their_o use_n be_v observe_v but_o than_o we_o fall_v off_o from_o the_o question_n between_o we_o otherwise_o we_o know_v that_o thing_n lawful_a and_o good_a in_o themselves_o yet_o not_o due_o circumstantiate_v may_v be_v evil_a and_o scandalous_a in_o their_o use_n hear_v what_o paul_n say_v it_o be_v lawful_a for_o paul_n to_o eat_v some_o kind_n of_o meat_n yet_o if_o it_o make_v my_o brother_n offend_v i_o will_v eat_v no_o flesh_n while_o the_o world_n stand_v 1_o cor._n 8._o 13._o hear_v what_o the_o author_n of_o the_o second_o admonition_n to_o the_o parliament_n say_v in_o queen_n elizabeth_n day_n the_o book_n of_o common-prayer_n which_o of_o all_o other_o must_v not_o be_v touch_v because_o they_o have_v get_v the_o state_n to_o bear_v it_o out_o yet_o he_o have_v but_o a_o bad_a conscience_n that_o in_o this_o time_n will_v hold_v his_o peace_n and_o not_o speak_v it_o for_o fear_n of_o trouble_n know_v that_o there_o be_v such_o intolerable_a abuse_n in_o it_o if_o there_o be_v never_o a_o ill_a word_n or_o sentence_n in_o all_o the_o prayer_n yet_o to_o appoint_v it_o to_o be_v use_v or_o to_o use_v it_o as_o the_o papist_n do_v their_o matin_n and_o evensong_n as_o a_o fit_a service_n to_o god_n though_o the_o word_n be_v good_a yet_o the_o use_n be_v naught_o but_o if_o this_o seem_v too_o sharp_a hear_v what_o a_o late_a godly_a and_o learned_a 2._o writer_n speak_v rejicimus_fw-la ill_a as_o precum_fw-la cultusque_fw-la publici_fw-la formulas_fw-la quae_fw-la tyrannide_fw-la quâdam_fw-la conscientiis_fw-la hominum_fw-la ut_fw-la â—ultus_fw-la divini_fw-la part_n essentiales_fw-la impoâ—â—ntur_fw-la quamvis_fw-la quoad_fw-la materiam_fw-la sunt_fw-la legitime_fw-la dispositae_fw-la quoad_fw-la formam_fw-la &_o modum_fw-la tamen_fw-la quo_fw-la inducuntur_fw-la illegitima_fw-la crudelitâ—tis_fw-la instrumenta_fw-la fiunt_fw-la &_o praetextus_fw-la improbae_fw-la malitiae_fw-la &_o occasiones_fw-la violentae_fw-la tyrannidis_fw-la in_o dignissimos_fw-la &_o optimos_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la filios_fw-la reply_n advert_v 5._o you_o be_v general_o you_o say_v loath_a to_o meddle_v with_o the_o affair_n of_o other_o church_n unless_o necessary_o call_v thereunto_o but_o when_o some_o upon_o request_n as_o we_o suppose_v of_o private_a friend_n and_o other_o out_o of_o their_o zeal_n and_o forwardness_n have_v labour_v to_o draw_v many_o to_o separate_v from_o the_o sacrament_n because_o minister_v in_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n we_o can_v apprehend_v any_o just_a ground_n of_o this_o apology_n the_o rent_n be_v wide_a and_o some_o brethren_n bad_a their_o hand_n deep_a therein_o which_o make_v uâ—_n crave_v your_o judgement_n and_o the_o reason_n thereof_o to_o make_v up_o the_o breach_n answ_n 1_o what_o you_o impute_v to_o some_o if_o just_o we_o grant_v will_v not_o allow_v this_o apology_n to_o be_v general_a for_o all_o but_o how_o many_o that_o some_o be_v or_o who_o we_o know_v not_o it_o may_v be_v one_o or_o two_o and_o if_o so_o one_o or_o two_o exception_n will_v not_o much_o infringe_v a_o general_a rule_n nor_o hinder_v this_o general_a apology_n 2_o if_o such_o brethren_n have_v a_o necessary_a call_v to_o speak_v or_o write_v what_o they_o do_v it_o hinder_v not_o our_o apology_n at_o all_o the_o desire_n of_o private_a friend_n which_o you_o only_o suppose_v the_o move_a cause_n may_v be_v very_o weighty_a the_o satisfy_n of_o tender_a conscience_n of_o near_a friend_n or_o such_o as_o once_o depend_v upon_o our_o ministry_n in_o such_o a_o time_n of_o press_v humane_a invention_n upon_o man_n as_o that_o be_v may_v be_v a_o very_a urgent_a call_n to_o interpose_v but_o that_o any_o have_v endeavour_v out_o of_o zeal_n to_o draw_v many_o to_o separation_n from_o the_o sacrament_n upon_o such_o a_o ground_n as_o you_o say_v as_o we_o utter_o dislike_v such_o fire_n upon_o the_o top_n of_o the_o house_n so_o it_o must_v be_v prove_v before_o we_o can_v call_v to_o mind_n or_o acknowledge_v any_o such_o thing_n reply_n advert_v 6._o j._n d._n object_n to_o mr._n p._n that_o his_o manner_n of_o preach_v proceed_v it_o shall_v be_v be_v disorderly_a in_o carry_v to_o the_o classis_fw-la a_o matter_n before_o he_o have_v declare_v it_o to_o the_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o may_v not_o we_o with_o like_a reason_n object_n that_o this_o manner_n of_o proceed_v be_v disorderly_a in_o seek_v to_o draw_v man_n to_o separation_n because_o of_o a_o stint_a liturgy_n 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mean_n of_o worship_n which_o those_o priest_n never_o be_v reply_n on_o the_o contrary_a if_o you_o will_v extend_v this_o text_n to_o all_o unworthy_a minister_n of_o what_o sort_n soever_o who_o the_o word_n of_o god_n condemn_v as_o not_o approve_a minister_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n answ_n we_o intend_v no_o other_o sort_n then_o such_o as_o we_o have_v in_o hand_n the_o unable_a and_o ungodly_a idol_n priest_n of_o england_n and_o therefore_o this_o discourse_n concern_v we_o not_o for_o we_o free_o confess_v that_o it_o be_v lawful_a in_o divers_a case_n at_o least_o for_o a_o time_n to_o communicate_v with_o such_o unworthy_a minister_n as_o may_v be_v contain_v in_o your_o description_n but_o that_o people_n must_v and_o aught_o to_o join_v with_o such_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o sin_n if_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o ordinance_n as_o you_o say_v the_o scripture_n allege_v teach_v not_o this_o so_o evident_o that_o we_o can_v see_v as_o 1_o sam._n 2._o 12_o 13._o 17._o 24._o that_o imputation_n verse_n 24._o they_o make_v the_o lord_n people_n to_o transgress_v do_v not_o depend_v immediate_o on_o verse_n 13_o 14._o 17._o but_o on_o verse_n 22._o 23._o where_o they_o be_v charge_v to_o have_v lie_v with_o the_o woman_n the_o other_o passage_n be_v interrupt_v by_o the_o story_n of_o samuel_n and_o his_o mother_n verse_n 18_o 19_o 20_o 21._o so_o jer._n 8._o 8_o 9_o micah_n 3._o 11_o 12._o contain_v only_a threat_n against_o wicked_a minister_n but_o not_o a_o word_n to_o prove_v people_n ought_v to_o join_v with_o they_o etc._n etc._n phil._n 1._o 15._o speak_v of_o such_o as_o preach_v and_o preach_v christ_n though_o not_o of_o sincerity_n do_v not_o reach_v such_o minister_n as_o the_o word_n condemn_v for_o many_o such_o may_v be_v approve_v minister_n by_o the_o word_n have_v a_o call_v according_a to_o the_o same_o but_o we_o shall_v not_o contend_v in_o this_o case_n wherein_o we_o do_v not_o dissent_v so_o that_o christian_n be_v leave_v to_o their_o lawful_a liberty_n of_o withdraw_a from_o minister_n gross_o wicked_a and_o teacher_n of_o false_a doctrine_n or_o idle_a and_o unsufficient_a when_o they_o can_v reclaim_v they_o or_o remove_v they_o in_o the_o use_n of_o all_o lawful_a mean_n within_o their_o power_n reply_n the_o reason_n whereby_o the_o ancient_a church_n condemn_v the_o donatist_n and_o catharist_n for_o their_o voluntary_a and_o seditious_a separation_n and_o the_o modern_a church_n condemn_v the_o anabaptist_n for_o their_o rent_v from_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n will_v hold_v against_o separation_n from_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o congregation_n because_o they_o be_v read_v by_o a_o ungodly_a minister_n we_o deny_v that_o we_o teach_v or_o hold_v such_o separation_n because_o read_v by_o a_o ungodly_a minister_n as_o be_v sufficient_o show_v before_o but_o what_o we_o speak_v be_v against_o conformity_n to_o and_o communion_n with_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o liturgy_n especial_o use_v by_o a_o unable_a as_o well_o as_o ungodly_a minister_n and_o therefore_o the_o argument_n mention_v will_v hold_v against_o our_o proposition_n just_a as_o the_o accusation_n and_o imputation_n of_o donatism_n puritanisme_n anabaptism_n which_o the_o prelate_n cast_v upon_o all_o nonconformist_n and_o man_n studious_a of_o reformation_n will_v hold_v and_o fasten_v upon_o they_o which_o be_v nothing_o at_o all_o reply_n the_o second_o proposition_n where_o the_o whole_a liturgy_n be_v use_v though_o by_o a_o able_a and_o godly_a minister_n it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o join_v in_o prayer_n in_o that_o case_n we_o can_v be_v of_o your_o judgement_n herein_o for_o in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o prophet_n and_o our_o saviour_n christ_n as_o great_a abuse_n no_o question_n be_v find_v etc._n etc._n but_o they_o never_o teach_v people_n to_o separate_v from_o the_o holy_a thing_n of_o god_n answ_n first_o we_o must_v still_o mind_v the_o reader_n of_o the_o true_a and_o full_a state_n of_o the_o question_n which_o in_o our_o answer_n be_v of_o join_v in_o prayer_n with_o and_o when_o that_o whole_a liturgy_n be_v use_v and_o he_o that_o join_v with_o that_o whole_a liturgy_n must_v needs_o be_v suppose_v to_o have_v actual_a communion_n with_o all_o the_o corruption_n thereof_o what_o ever_o they_o be_v and_o therefore_o though_o this_o proposition_n reach_v to_o the_o practice_n of_o able_a and_o godly_a minister_n yet_o let_v none_o think_v we_o plead_v herein_o separation_n from_o their_o ministry_n but_o only_o that_o people_n may_v not_o conform_v with_o they_o to_o any_o corruption_n in_o worship_n and_o by_o this_o proposition_n also_o the_o author_n may_v easy_o have_v see_v that_o we_o deny_v the_o other_o which_o be_v weave_v in_o with_o this_o not_o because_o of_o the_o ungodliness_n of_o the_o minister_n alone_o as_o he_o carry_v his_o dispute_n but_o chief_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o corruption_n of_o the_o worship_n together_o with_o the_o unlawfulnesse_n of_o such_o a_o ministry_n that_o be_v both_o unable_a and_o ungodly_a second_o concern_v the_o argument_n it_o run_v as_o full_a for_o conformity_n to_o all_o the_o corrupt_a ceremony_n of_o the_o book_n as_o the_o corrupt_a worship_n itself_o therein_o as_o be_v say_v before_o clear_v the_o one_o viz._n non-conformitie_n to_o ceremony_n show_v a_o reason_n why_o you_o will_v separate_v from_o the_o sacrament_n because_o you_o will_v not_o kneel_v according_a to_o the_o book_n and_o you_o answer_v your_o argument_n here_o allege_v against_o we_o but_o the_o reply_n proceed_v reply_n and_o if_o presence_n at_o form_n of_o prayer_n be_v not_o lawful_a by_o reason_n of_o the_o corruption_n allege_v there_o can_v be_v no_o visible_a society_n name_v since_o 200._o year_n after_o christ_n or_o thereabouts_o wherein_o a_o christian_a may_v lawful_o join_v in_o prayer_n read_v the_o scripture_n hear_v the_o word_n or_o participation_n of_o the_o sacrament_n their_o doctrine_n prayer_n right_n be_v less_o pure_a than_o we_o but_o no_o man_n we_o hope_v will_v be_v so_o bold_a as_o to_o affirm_v the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n within_o 200._o year_n after_o christ_n to_o be_v so_o miserable_o decay_v that_o the_o faithful_a can_v not_o without_o sin_n hold_v communion_n with_o they_o in_o the_o foresay_a ordinance_n of_o god_n answ_n first_o this_o argument_n hold_v as_o strong_o for_o conformity_n to_o the_o ceremony_n as_o to_o the_o whole_a book_n of_o common_a prayer_n as_o be_v say_v before_o second_o this_o be_v a_o dangerous_a kind_n of_o reason_v from_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o faithful_a in_o corrupt_a time_n of_o the_o church_n especial_o when_o they_o be_v decline_v and_o grow_a cloud_n of_o darkness_n and_o superstition_n overspread_v the_o church_n it_o be_v no_o breach_n of_o charity_n to_o think_v that_o through_o the_o iniquity_n of_o the_o time_n the_o godly_a live_v in_o many_o evil_n through_o ignorance_n and_o weakness_n which_o after_o light_n be_v come_v into_o the_o church_n we_o ought_v to_o abandon_v whole_o these_o be_v time_n of_o light_n and_o of_o the_o consumption_n of_o antichrist_n and_o time_n for_o we_o to_o abolish_v his_o liturgy_n and_o corrupt_a form_n of_o worship_n as_o well_o as_o image_n ceremony_n etc._n etc._n who_o do_v not_o pity_v the_o weakness_n of_o godly_a bilny_n and_o other_o that_o see_v some_o gross_a corruption_n be_v yet_o so_o devout_o obedient_a to_o the_o church_n as_o they_o call_v it_o in_o many_o gross_a superstition_n and_o the_o like_a may_v be_v say_v of_o those_o former_a time_n and_o we_o see_v not_o but_o this_o reason_n will_v go_v far_o in_o justification_n of_o communion_n with_o many_o false_a worship_n of_o antichrist_n that_o be_v not_o gross_o idolatrous_a three_o it_o be_v a_o great_a charge_n upon_o those_o time_n to_o say_v no_o visible_a society_n throughout_o the_o world_n can_v be_v name_v since_o 200._o year_n after_o christ_n that_o be_v not_o less_o pure_a than_o england_n in_o doctrine_n rite_n etc._n etc._n it_o may_v be_v that_o as_o general_o church_n be_v corrupt_a so_o they_o contemn_v and_o censure_v such_o as_o profess_v more_o purity_n but_o that_o there_o be_v some_o visible_a assembly_n more_o pure_a may_v be_v conceive_v by_o that_o testimony_n give_v to_o aerius_n and_o many_o orthodox_n christian_n with_o he_o though_o condemn_v for_o a_o heretic_n in_o that_o which_o we_o all_o now_o hold_v to_o be_v a_o undoubted_a truth_n also_o after_o the_o waldenses_n cast_v off_o the_o pope_n and_o his_o will_n worship_n and_o the_o follow_v reform_v church_n those_o of_o scotland_n geneva_n and_o divers_a other_o in_o france_n and_o switserland_n etc._n etc._n who_o doctrine_n rite_n and_o administration_n we_o doubt_v not_o will_v be_v confess_v more_o pure_a than_o english_a church_n it_o will_v be_v too_o tedious_a and_o in_o these_o know_a time_n
visible_a member_n of_o the_o flock_n of_o christ_n understand_v that_o particular_a church_n out_o of_o which_o they_o be_v cast_v so_o the_o right_n of_o baptism_n belong_v to_o their_o infant_n which_o be_v so_o they_o be_v not_o without_o that_o church_n though_o debar_v unjust_o of_o the_o present_a communion_n with_o it_o unless_o he_o renounce_v that_o church_n or_o other_o reply_n second_o if_o such_o church_n renounce_v it_o as_o be_v no_o member_n of_o a_o politic_a spiritual_a fellowship_n be_v without_o than_o the_o member_n of_o one_o church_n be_v without_o unto_o another_o etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o objection_n we_o have_v have_v and_o answer_v oft_o before_o in_o a_o word_n there_o can_v be_v the_o like_a reason_n no_o not_o in_o respect_n of_o that_o other_o church_n who_o may_v in_o a_o due_a order_n of_o christ_n persecute_v the_o censure_n against_o they_o though_o not_o complete_o among_o themselves_o which_o can_v be_v say_v of_o such_o as_o have_v not_o join_v themselves_o to_o any_o church_n and_o therefore_o we_o deny_v that_o the_o apostle_n reason_n be_v because_o they_o be_v without_o to_o corinth_n but_o without_o to_o all_o church_n reply_n three_o the_o fornicator_n of_o this_o world_n do_v they_o not_o explain_v who_o the_o apostle_n point_v unto_o by_o the_o title_n of_o be_v without_o verse_n the_o 10._o 11._o such_o as_o have_v not_o receive_v the_o covenant_n of_o grace_n answ_n we_o never_o think_v otherwise_o but_o that_o the_o fornicator_n of_o this_o world_n and_o the_o heathen_a be_v most_o proper_o without_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n but_o if_o our_o word_n be_v observe_v that_o in_o a_o certain_a respect_n or_o as_o our_o word_n be_v in_o regard_n of_o visible_a church_n communion_n such_o as_o be_v in_o no_o church_n society_n be_v say_v to_o be_v without_o what_o great_a offence_n have_v we_o give_v for_o first_o be_v not_o a_o godly_a man_n if_o just_o excommunicate_v without_o in_o this_o sense_n second_o do_v not_o the_o apostle_n john_n express_o call_v they_o without_o that_o forsake_v the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o church_n 1_o john_n 2._o 19_o saying_n they_o go_v out_o three_o be_v not_o the_o catechumeni_fw-la of_o old_a in_o this_o respect_n without_o and_o the_o lapse_v in_o time_n of_o persecution_n and_o the_o like_a who_o in_o those_o zealous_a and_o severe_a time_n of_o church_n discipline_n be_v not_o only_o say_v to_o be_v without_o but_o stand_v without_o though_o weep_v and_o pray_v as_o penitent_n at_o the_o church_n door_n sometime_o for_o two_o or_o three_o year_n and_o after_o this_o degree_n of_o preparation_n for_o entrance_n into_o the_o church_n which_o they_o call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d there_o be_v three_o more_o before_o they_o be_v receive_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n which_o severity_n though_o we_o approve_v not_o yet_o it_o may_v mollify_v the_o mind_n of_o the_o godly_a learned_a that_o be_v apt_a to_o be_v offend_v at_o such_o a_o word_n from_o we_o four_o our_o saviour_n himself_o express_o say_v and_o that_o not_o only_o of_o those_o of_o no_o church_n but_o such_o as_o be_v even_o of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o his_o ordinary_a hearer_n that_o many_o of_o they_o be_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o man_n without_o and_o therefore_o this_o application_n of_o 1_o cor._n 5._o 12._o need_v not_o be_v call_v insolent_a or_o raise_v such_o a_o hubbub_n abroad_o as_o we_o perceive_v it_o do_v reply_n four_o church_n order_n be_v necessary_a we_o deny_v not_o but_o that_o a_o man_n shall_v be_v a_o constant_a set_a member_n of_o a_o particular_a society_n by_o covenant_n to_o make_v he_o a_o member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n or_o to_o give_v he_o title_n or_o interest_n to_o the_o public_a order_n this_o be_v not_o teach_v of_o god_n this_o be_v but_o a_o bare_a denial_n of_o the_o position_n itself_o but_o what_o be_v mean_v by_o public_a order_n we_o know_v not_o or_o where_o the_o order_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v grant_v to_o be_v necessary_a can_v be_v find_v but_o in_o particular_a church_n we_o be_v yet_o to_o learn_v neither_o be_v it_o any_o where_o teach_v in_o this_o reply_n and_o we_o will_v glad_o learn_v how_o that_o church_n shall_v orderly_o deal_v with_o such_o a_o man_n in_o case_n of_o offence_n that_o be_v of_o no_o particular_a church_n reply_n five_o paul_n divide_v all_o man_n into_o two_o rank_n the_o first_o and_o great_a without_o the_o last_o and_o lesser_a within_o but_o that_o believer_n etc._n etc._n and_o their_o child_n shall_v be_v reckon_v without_o we_o read_v not_o in_o any_o scripture_n but_o in_o scripture_n phrase_n heretic_n themselves_o be_v within_o 1_o john_n 2_o 19_o 1_o cor._n 11._o 19_o answ_n all_o that_o be_v say_v in_o this_o objection_n except_o the_o last_o clause_n be_v but_o a_o repeat_v denial_n of_o the_o conclusion_n in_o other_o word_n to_o the_o objection_n about_o heretic_n within_o we_o grant_v they_o be_v within_o till_o cast_v out_o or_o go_v out_o of_o the_o church_n 1_o john_n 2._o 19_o and_o if_o go_v out_o how_o be_v they_o within_o and_o so_o if_o a_o orthodox_n professor_n will_v froward_o forsake_v all_o church_n and_o live_v alone_o or_o among_o the_o heathen_a how_o be_v he_o within_o we_o speak_v only_o in_o general_n reply_n six_o this_o have_v not_o be_v believe_v in_o the_o church_n answ_n we_o be_v not_o bind_v in_o every_o thing_n to_o be_v of_o the_o church_n faith_n and_o what_o we_o have_v say_v before_o may_v satisfy_v here_o reply_n seven_o without_o be_v dog_n etc._n etc._n rev._n 22._o 15._o not_o such_o as_o be_v faithful_a holy_a etc._n etc._n answ_n true_o proper_o such_o be_v without_o not_o these_o yet_o in_o some_o respect_n as_o have_v be_v say_v other_o also_o may_v be_v without_o as_o such_o as_o forsake_v the_o church_n etc._n etc._n as_o be_v before_o say_v more_o full_o reply_n eight_o they_o that_o be_v without_o in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n be_v alien_n from_o the_o commonwealth_n of_o israel_n stranger_n from_o the_o covenant_n of_o promise_n have_v no_o hope_n and_o without_o god_n in_o the_o world_n but_o we_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o pass_v such_o rash_a censure_n upon_o the_o brethren_n who_o be_v not_o gather_v into_o the_o society_n as_o set_v member_n answ_n to_o say_v some_o believer_n may_v be_v without_o in_o some_o respect_n be_v far_o from_o such_o a_o censure_n the_o scripture_n say_v of_o israel_n in_o their_o corrupt_a estate_n and_o defect_n of_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n that_o they_o be_v a_o long_a time_n without_o god_n without_o law_n without_o a_o teach_a priest_n yet_o that_o hard_a expression_n do_v not_o equal_v they_o with_o the_o heathen_a much_o less_o to_o say_v some_o believer_n be_v without_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o regard_n of_o visible_a church_n communion_n and_o we_o judge_v no_o otherwise_o of_o such_o then_o of_o ourselves_o when_o we_o be_v in_o the_o like_a case_n reply_n nine_o let_v this_o interpretation_n stand_v and_o he_o shall_v be_v without_o also_o that_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o community_n of_o the_o particular_a combination_n few_o or_o many_o without_z or_o with_o officer_n and_o so_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n that_o ascribe_v the_o key_n to_o the_o presbytery_n or_o classis_fw-la and_o not_o to_o the_o community_n and_o some_o among_o yourselves_o if_o not_o most_o shall_v be_v without_o also_o and_o therefore_o we_o can_v think_v that_o approve_a christian_n desire_v seal_n be_v either_o without_o or_o not_o capable_a of_o church_n censure_n if_o they_o offend_v though_o no_o set_a member_n for_o desire_v seal_n they_o put_v themselves_o under_o the_o ordinance_n for_o a_o time_n and_o may_v be_v proceed_v withal_o as_o offend_a member_n answ_n this_o objection_n have_v no_o colour_n without_o extreme_a strain_n of_o our_o application_n of_o 1_o cor._n 5._o 12._o see_v we_o never_o limit_v the_o position_n to_o church_n of_o the_o same_o judgement_n or_o in_o like_a degree_n of_o order_n to_o we_o it_o be_v only_o a_o force_a odium_fw-la which_o be_v cast_v upon_o we_o but_o we_o can_v bear_v more_o at_o our_o brethren_n hand_n neither_o do_v we_o know_v any_o church_n or_o elder_a that_o ascribe_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n to_o the_o presbytery_n or_o classis_fw-la exclude_v the_o community_n among_o we_o second_o for_o that_o objection_n that_o such_o put_v themselves_o under_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n for_o the_o time_n if_o with_o profession_n of_o faith_n and_o subjection_n to_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n they_o desire_v seal_n it_o be_v something_o but_o that_o the_o very_o desire_v of_o seal_n do_v include_v such_o a_o subjection_n in_o itself_o be_v but_o for_o this_o or_o that_o act_n of_o administration_n
first_o institution_n that_o it_o shall_v be_v dispense_v to_o none_o but_o member_n of_o a_o congregationall_a assembly_n answ_n it_o be_v free_o grant_v first_o that_o baptism_n be_v a_o privilege_n of_o the_o church_n second_o that_o such_o as_o profess_v the_o faith_n and_o have_v receive_v the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n if_o by_o church_n be_v mean_v the_o church_n mystical_a consider_v as_o visible_a though_o not_o always_o political_a three_o that_o these_o may_v receive_v baptism_n by_o such_o as_o have_v power_n to_o baptize_v they_o but_o immediate_o to_o baptize_v they_o none_o have_v power_n but_o by_o a_o extraordinary_a call_n of_o god_n so_o to_o do_v as_o have_v be_v former_o show_v but_o it_o will_v not_o hence_o follow_v that_o ordinary_a officer_n have_v such_o a_o power_n want_v such_o extraordinary_a call_n because_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_a have_v right_o unto_o the_o seal_n yet_o the_o immediate_a fruition_n of_o they_o they_o must_v have_v by_o ordinary_a officer_n in_o a_o political_a body_n the_o only_a subject_n according_a to_o order_n of_o all_o such_o institution_n otherwise_o we_o must_v admit_v private_a baptism_n if_o the_o extraordinary_a example_n of_o the_o apostle_n be_v press_v for_o our_o pattern_n reply_n then_o the_o apostle_n in_o dispense_n seal_v walk_v by_o rule_n of_o scripture_n and_o ground_n common_a to_o we_o and_o then_o the_o difficulty_n remain_v be_v only_o this_o whether_o a_o pastor_n may_v dispense_v seal_n to_o such_o as_o have_v right_a to_o they_o and_o do_v orderly_o desire_v they_o though_o he_o be_v not_o yet_o a_o set_a member_n of_o a_o congregation_n answ_n we_o grant_v the_o apostle_n ordinary_o and_o general_o baptize_v upon_o common_a ground_n but_o still_o when_o they_o do_v so_o they_o receive_v they_o into_o some_o particular_a church_n and_o so_o baptize_v they_o and_o in_o the_o like_o orderly_a way_n any_o pastor_n may_v do_v the_o same_o second_o we_o answer_v thing_n may_v be_v do_v sano_fw-la sensu_fw-la upon_o common_a and_o moral_a ground_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o be_v do_v by_o other_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n to_o give_v one_o instance_n in_o stead_n of_o many_o the_o apostle_n preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o gather_v in_o the_o elect_a of_o god_n and_o to_o edify_v the_o church_n etc._n etc._n and_o minister_n upon_o the_o same_o common_a ground_n must_v now_o preach_v the_o gospel_n also_o yet_o in_o that_o the_o apostle_n on_o those_o ground_n preach_v to_o all_o nation_n this_o do_v not_o warrant_v minister_n now_o to_o do_v the_o like_a so_o here_o though_o we_o baptize_v believer_n as_o they_o do_v yet_o we_o may_v not_o do_v it_o to_o all_o in_o all_o case_n as_o they_o do_v and_o therefore_o the_o rule_n hold_v only_o when_o all_o circumstance_n be_v alike_o as_o well_o as_o the_o common_a ground_n reply_n second_o in_o the_o instance_n give_v it_o be_v not_o probable_a that_o baptism_n be_v evermore_o administer_v by_o the_o apostle_n or_o evangelist_n for_o before_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n the_o disciple_n baptize_v when_o they_o be_v neither_o apostle_n nor_o evangelist_n proper_o after_o the_o death_n of_o christ_n etc._n etc._n if_o philip_n ananias_n and_o other_o may_v baptize_v such_o as_o be_v no_o member_n of_o particular_a congregation_n then_o may_v ordinary_a pastor_n do_v the_o like_a answ_n you_o mistake_v here_o in_o the_o force_n of_o our_o answer_n as_o have_v be_v show_v in_o the_o first_o consideration_n to_o which_o this_o objection_n and_o answer_n belong_v for_o we_o do_v not_o make_v all_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n extraordinary_a but_o general_o orderly_a in_o the_o way_n we_o profess_v second_o we_o answer_v to_o the_o particular_n not_o to_o wrestle_v with_o the_o ghost_n of_o humane_a imagination_n and_o conjecture_n whether_o any_o beside_o the_o apostle_n baptize_v the_o 3000._o act._n 2._o as_o for_o philip_n and_o ananias_n if_o they_o baptize_v do_v they_o baptize_v as_o private_a man_n or_o as_o church_n officer_n if_o the_o second_o what_o officer_n be_v they_o ordinary_a or_o extraordinary_a we_o think_v it_o will_v not_o be_v think_v they_o be_v ordinary_a who_o be_v honour_v with_o such_o extraordinary_a work_n but_o in_o what_o office_n soever_o they_o be_v those_o particular_a action_n in_o baptise_v the_o eunuch_n and_o paul_n be_v do_v by_o a_o immediate_a call_n of_o god_n as_o be_v evident_a in_o the_o story_n reply_n three_o it_o be_v very_o improbable_a that_o the_o person_n baptize_v be_v in_o church_n state_n or_o order_n if_o they_o be_v member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n not_o yet_o dissolve_v this_o be_v not_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o man_n have_v not_o right_a to_o baptism_n because_o member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n but_o because_o disciple_n and_o as_o you_o say_v join_v together_o in_o covenant_n etc._n etc._n answ_n we_o grant_v that_o since_o the_o visible_a kingdom_n of_o christ_n be_v set_v up_o in_o visible_a christian_a church_n the_o seal_n belong_v proper_o and_o ordinary_o to_o the_o member_n of_o christian_a church_n not_o jewish_a yet_o we_o may_v affirm_v that_o if_o in_o any_o special_a case_n a_o believer_n be_v baptize_v by_o any_o that_o have_v a_o special_a call_v thereto_o where_o there_o be_v no_o christian_a church_n present_v actual_o to_o join_v unto_o yet_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n not_o yet_o dissolve_v the_o case_n do_v not_o so_o much_o vary_v from_o the_o set_n order_n of_o christ_n in_o those_o time_n and_o that_o be_v all_o we_o intend_v reply_n if_o the_o eunuch_n and_o centurion_n be_v proselyte_n and_o of_o the_o jewish_a church_n the_o samaritan_n who_o philip_n baptize_v be_v not_o so_o and_o that_o any_o gentile_n or_o the_o jailor_n be_v set_v member_n of_o a_o christian_a assembly_n be_v very_o strange_a etc._n etc._n answ_n this_o be_v full_o answer_v before_o in_o the_o first_o consideration_n and_o that_o which_o be_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n and_o mind_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o first_o and_o common_a practice_n of_o the_o apostle_n act._n 2._o to_o join_v man_n to_o the_o church_n when_o they_o baptize_v they_o need_v not_o seem_v strange_a reply_n in_o the_o apostle_n practise_v two_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v consider_v first_o the_o circumstance_n of_o the_o action_n second_o the_o substance_n or_o quality_n of_o the_o act._n in_o some_o circumstance_n the_o baptise_v of_o some_o of_o these_o may_v be_v extraordinary_a but_o the_o substance_n and_o quality_n of_o the_o action_n be_v ground_v upon_o â—ules_n perpetual_a and_o common_a to_o we_o and_o they_o that_o be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n etc._n etc._n answ_n 1_o we_o suppose_v among_o such_o circumstance_n you_o will_v reckon_v that_o for_o one_o that_o the_o eunuch_n be_v baptize_v alone_o in_o the_o wilderness_n not_o in_o any_o visible_a assembly_n of_o saint_n wherein_o ordinary_a pastor_n may_v not_o imitate_v that_o act_n and_o this_o come_v not_o far_o short_a of_o what_o we_o say_v for_o the_o chief_a proof_n that_o they_o be_v not_o receive_v into_o a_o particular_a church_n lie_v in_o their_o absence_n from_o such_o a_o assembly_n and_o if_o they_o may_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o catholic_n church_n without_o the_o presence_n of_o any_o christian_a but_o he_o that_o baptize_v they_o why_o not_o into_o a_o particular_a church_n as_o well_o 2_o the_o large_a discourse_n about_o the_o apostle_n extraordinary_a power_n and_o do_v thing_n upon_o common_a ground_n be_v so_o oft_o say_v for_o substance_n and_o answer_v before_o that_o it_o be_v vain_a to_o trouble_v the_o reader_n again_o with_o the_o same_o thing_n reply_n second_o a_o argument_n follow_v necessary_o from_o a_o particular_a example_n to_o a_o general_a when_o the_o proof_n of_o one_o particular_a to_o another_o be_v make_v by_o force_n of_o the_o similitude_n common_a to_o the_o whole_a kind_n under_o which_o those_o particular_n be_v contain_v now_o in_o this_o matter_n we_o speak_v of_o no_o reason_n can_v be_v name_v why_o we_o shall_v think_v it_o lawful_a for_o the_o apostle_n to_o baptize_v such_o as_o be_v no_o set_a member_n and_o the_o same_o shall_v be_v unlawful_a in_o all_o case_n for_o pastor_n of_o particular_a congregation_n answ_n we_o deny_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v so_o ordinary_o and_o therefore_o your_o argument_n do_v not_o hold_v if_o it_o be_v build_v upon_o the_o common_a practice_n but_o if_o it_o be_v build_v upon_o some_o few_o special_a case_n we_o retort_v the_o argument_n thus_o that_o which_o the_o apostle_n do_v ordinary_o upon_o common_a ground_n that_o pastor_n ought_v to_o do_v but_o ordinary_o they_o baptize_v disciple_n admit_v they_o first_o into_o particular_a church_n therefore_o in_o the_o three_o reason_n we_o grant_v the_o conclusion_n of_o it_o
for_o the_o good_a of_o the_o church_n but_o if_o the_o question_n be_v of_o the_o application_n of_o a_o office_n and_o the_o power_n of_o it_o to_o such_o and_o such_o person_n in_o the_o church_n we_o will_v demand_v whether_o christ_n do_v this_o to_o such_o a_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n immediate_o or_o mediate_o if_o immediate_o than_o their_o call_n be_v not_o in_o this_o different_a from_o apostle_n which_o paul_n express_o distinguish_v gal._n 1_o 1._o paul_n be_v a_o apostle_n not_o of_o man_n nor_o by_o man_n but_o of_o god_n and_o by_o jesus_n christ_n false_a teacher_n be_v of_o man_n and_o by_o man_n true_a pastor_n as_o thomas_n john_n etc._n etc._n be_v of_o god_n by_o man_n and_o if_o christ_n communicate_v this_o office_n and_o the_o authority_n annex_v unto_o it_o mediate_o by_o man_n not_o immediate_o the_o question_n be_v who_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o this_o power_n to_o call_v and_o so_o to_o apply_v this_o office_n in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n to_o this_o or_o that_o person_n john_n thomas_n etc._n etc._n we_o hold_v this_o fraternal_a ministerial_a power_n under_o christ_n be_v in_o the_o church_n and_o so_o far_o we_o shall_v defend_v this_o position_n and_o where_o ever_o it_o be_v else_o place_v it_o will_v be_v subject_a to_o all_o the_o absurdity_n that_o be_v impute_v to_o we_o to_o the_o sentence_n of_o parker_n we_o answer_v that_o the_o misinterpret_v one_o word_n of_o his_o sentence_n do_v pervert_v his_o whole_a meaning_n his_o word_n be_v pro_fw-la dono_fw-la conditionali_fw-la ut_fw-la rectoribus_fw-la communicetur_fw-la i._n e._n that_o the_o church_n may_v not_o communicate_v that_o power_n to_o officer_n nor_o keep_v it_o in_o her_o own_o hand_n or_o that_o it_o may_v be_v communicate_v from_o christ_n by_o the_o church_n and_o this_o will_v appear_v his_o meaning_n and_o it_o agree_v with_o that_o position_n he_o hold_v so_o strong_o that_o the_o church_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n reply_n after_o the_o church_n be_v establish_v it_o take_v not_o effect_n for_o it_o be_v no_o where_o find_v in_o scripture_n that_o christ_n first_o commit_v this_o power_n to_o the_o apostle_n and_o after_o to_o the_o community_n the_o minister_n and_o guide_n be_v immediate_o of_o jesus_n christ_n from_o who_o immediate_o they_o derive_v their_o power_n and_o authority_n by_o who_o they_o be_v set_v over_o their_o charge_n in_o who_o name_n they_o execute_v their_o office_n etc._n etc._n yea_o pastorship_n be_v the_o gift_n of_o christ_n as_o well_o as_o apostleship_n and_o every_o pastor_n be_v not_o immediate_o call_v but_o the_o office_n and_o order_n of_o pastor_n the_o call_n authority_n and_o jurisdiction_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n not_o from_o the_o church_n answ_n first_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n in_o a_o right_a sense_n give_v to_o the_o church_n take_v effect_n from_o the_o begin_n in_o christ_n institution_n and_o in_o the_o frequent_a practice_n of_o the_o church_n as_o be_v show_v before_o and_o therefore_o this_o be_v needless_a to_o be_v prove_v that_o it_o take_v effect_v after_o second_o that_o minister_n and_o guide_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n if_o you_o mean_v ordinary_a officer_n and_o that_o every_o pastor_n be_v not_o immediate_o call_v seem_v to_o be_v a_o contradiction_n the_o place_n act._n 28._o 8._o ephes_n 4._o 8._o etc._n etc._n do_v not_o prove_v that_o all_o officer_n be_v immedate_o from_o christ_n though_o they_o be_v set_v in_o the_o church_n by_o christ_n and_o over_o the_o church_n by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n etc._n etc._n this_o the_o lord_n can_v do_v and_o do_v do_v by_o the_o mean_n of_o his_o church_n walk_v according_a to_o his_o rule_n and_o institution_n and_o therefore_o you_o must_v come_v at_o last_o home_n to_o our_o tenant_n as_o here_o you_o do_v that_o pastorship_n the_o office_n power_n jurisdiction_n etc._n etc._n annex_v to_o it_o be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n viz._n by_o his_o institution_n in_o the_o gospel_n but_o pastor_n every_o one_o that_o receive_v this_o office_n have_v it_o from_o christ_n but_o by_o his_o church_n call_v they_o to_o the_o same_o and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n apply_v it_o to_o they_o and_o thus_o far_o we_o agree_v with_o you_o reply_n the_o steward_n be_v appoint_v of_o the_o master_n of_o the_o family_n alone_o and_o have_v all_o his_o authority_n from_o he_o every_o ambassador_n in_o the_o cause_n of_o his_o embassage_n do_v immediate_o depend_v upon_o he_o from_o who_o he_o be_v send_v but_o if_o the_o function_n order_n and_o authority_n of_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n be_v immediate_o from_o christ_n than_o it_o be_v not_o receive_v from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o immediate_a receptacle_n answ_n answ_n first_o though_o pastor_n in_o respect_n of_o the_o exercise_n of_o their_o function_n dispense_v the_o word_n and_o other_o mystery_n of_o christ_n as_o from_o he_o immediate_o and_o so_o be_v fit_o compare_v to_o ambassador_n and_o steward_n yet_o in_o the_o call_n of_o the_o one_o and_o other_o to_o that_o work_n there_o be_v a_o plain_a dissimilitude_n the_o one_o be_v call_v mediate_o the_o other_o immediate_o by_o their_o master_n and_o therefore_o in_o this_o case_n it_o prove_v nothing_o what_o do_v this_o argument_n conclude_v if_o only_o that_o the_o function_n and_o order_n be_v not_o from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o first_o subject_n we_o ready_o grant_v it_o if_o the_o application_n of_o the_o office_n to_o such_o a_o person_n so_o far_o as_o may_v be_v do_v by_o a_o outward_a call_n it_o follow_v not_o at_o all_o for_o the_o function_n and_o office_n may_v be_v from_o christ_n and_o the_o application_n thereof_o by_o the_o church_n reply_n thus_o protestant_n divine_v dispute_v against_o papist_n if_o bishop_n receive_v their_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o exercise_v immediate_o from_o christ_n by_o mandate_n mission_n and_o commission_n from_o he_o than_o not_o from_o the_o pope_n and_o so_o for_o presbyter_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o bishop_n answ_n the_o reason_n and_o ground_n of_o that_o dispute_n be_v because_o the_o pope_n claim_v a_o plenitude_n of_o power_n from_o peter_n whence_o all_o must_v see_v derive_v to_o all_o bishop_n etc._n etc._n be_v they_o never_o so_o orderly_o choose_v and_o ordain_v in_o their_o own_o esteem_n and_o so_o indeed_o usurp_v the_o prerogative_n of_o christ_n the_o head_n of_o the_o church_n the_o like_a usurpation_n â—â—_o its_o degree_n be_v in_o the_o bishop_n over_o presbyter_n but_o here_o the_o case_n be_v far_o different_a the_o church_n clame_v no_o such_o power_n but_o only_o ministerial_a in_o the_o outward_a call_n of_o officer_n according_a to_o his_o direction_n and_o so_o the_o application_n of_o that_o office_n unto_o the_o person_n which_o have_v sufficient_a ground_n of_o scripture_n from_o christ_n and_o therefore_o we_o grant_v the_o conclusion_n viz._n that_o they_o derive_v not_o their_o power_n from_o the_o people_n but_o from_o christ_n by_o mean_n of_o the_o church_n ministerial_o and_o instrumental_o apply_v that_o office_n to_o they_o whereunto_o christ_n have_v annex_v that_o power_n last_o the_o like_a argument_n may_v be_v object_v against_o any_o other_o subject_n of_o this_o power_n you_o can_v or_o will_v suppose_v even_o the_o presbytery_n itself_o reply_n it_o be_v usual_o object_v that_o the_o church_n can_v convey_v what_o she_o never_o have_v but_o the_o people_n may_v elect_v their_o pastor_n whereunto_o the_o answer_n be_v direct_a and_o plain_a nothing_o can_v give_v that_o it_o have_v not_o formal_o or_o virtual_o unless_o it_o give_v it_o as_o a_o instrument_n minister_a to_o one_o that_o have_v it_o but_o so_o it_o may_v give_v what_o it_o never_o have_v nor_o be_v capable_a of_o a_o steward_n may_v give_v all_o the_o office_n in_o his_o master_n house_n as_o ministerial_o execute_v his_o master_n pleasure_n answ_n this_o answer_n do_v not_o satisfy_v for_o we_o can_v put_v off_o our_o old_a principle_n of_o reason_n that_o every_o instrument_n minister_a to_o the_o principal_a cause_n do_v confer_v vim_o ad_fw-la effectum_fw-la and_o so_o far_o or_o in_o what_o sense_n it_o give_v any_o thing_n to_o the_o effect_n in_o that_o sense_n and_o so_o far_o it_o must_v needs_o have_v virtual_o or_o formal_o the_o same_o in_o itself_o if_o a_o conduit_n convey_v water_n ministerial_o from_o the_o fountain_n to_o the_o house_n it_o have_v water_n in_o such_o a_o sense_n as_o it_o do_v concur_v to_o the_o effect_n and_o so_o the_o church_n can_v give_v the_o key_n to_o the_o officer_n as_o a_o instrument_n of_o christ_n but_o it_o must_v be_v grant_v she_o receive_v they_o from_o christ_n virtual_o to_o give_v they_o to_o the_o officer_n second_o for_o the_o instance_n if_o it_o be_v mean_v of_o a_o steward_n give_v the_o office_n to_o such_o