We are bound as Christians not only to bear the scourge of tongues but more also for the Gospels sake when called to it Augustin said to Petilian his tongue was not the fan I am a man in the floore of Christ and if good grain will be laid up in the Garner blow the wind as it will So we may say to such râ—ilers yea if the adversarie would write not only pasquils but a book of this kind we may bind it to our shoulders and wear it as our crown For the Lord will in due time wipe of the rebuke of his people Is 25. 8 which they bear for his Name That saying of Bernard is sweet Cimbae me comitto in tanto discrimine confidens in Domine qui pro illo recte lâ—quentibus pro illo laborautibus dicit Adsum 〈◊〉 run the reaâ—k trusting in the Lord who hath promised presence to all who speak and act rightlie for him And heroickly Luther to the same purpose if truth be on my side quidni pro viribus agam why should â—â—ot do my uttermost sim homicida sim adulter â—â—â—do silentii non arguar dum Christus patitur Let them call me what they wil if I be not guilty of sinful silence when Christ suffereth in his truth It is a very smal matter upon this account to be judged of men 1. Cor. 4. 3. these things are light and heavy as we ordinarily take them If this strain of reproaching did siste at us it were not so much but they reproach the written word of GOD and sentence it boldly of imperfection contrar to Psalm 19. 7. 2. Tim. 3. 15. 17. and of obscuritie as if it were not a light and lantherue to our paths Psalm 119. 105. Yea they shamelesly averre that the authority of the Church and Pope of Rome is greater to us nor Scripture Is it not lamentable that men called Christians for pompous selfish interests should laboriously studie to cast aspersions upon the unâ—ported word of GOD and depretiate it so in the world May not this render Popery suspicious to any knowing man that the abettors thereof decline the written word of GOD to be the sole umpire of faith and manners and endeavour to discredit it before the Nations which is the touch-stone of truth and best fence we have against Satan and all his complices such non sunt audiendi saith holy Aug. Confes lib. 6. cap. 5. they should not in this be heard far less obeyed Their second device when they are pressed with the truth is to coin evil grounded distinctions and with this ley money to make merchandise of poor simple souls Needle headed men have strangely acted their inventions herein and cruÌ„bled Gospel truths thus that he is now thought the best and most learned Papist who can findout subtile subterfugies and receptacles against plain Scripture verities So that the Romanists are the great foxes which eat up the tender vines Other Sectaries who separat themselves from the Church builded on the foundation Eph. 2. 20. and deface the doctrine which is according to Godliness are of lesser magnitude That ye may know what sort of proppes uphold their rotten building take these five instances First When we prove that the Scripture is the rule of faith this they grant in part but say they it is a partial not the total rule they must sowder somewhat of their own tradition to it erre they acknowledge it for a rule This is a reasonless shift If the rule be not total and perfect in its own kinde for its own ends it is no rule at all but a semi-rule regula nec appositionem nec ablationem admittit saith Theophilact on the 3. chap. to the Philip. Nothing can be added to or taken from a rule the law of nature the law of reason are sufficient for their own ends so is the written word of GOD for salvation When we say Secondly that the word of GOD cannot have authority from men therefore the Scripture is judge of the Church and not the Church of the Scripture They answer by a leaden distinction that it hath authority from the Church in respect of us but not in respect of it self This is a reasonless evasion for all authority is an act quoad extra and relative to us The Scriptures have excellency and dignity internal but all its authority is external and relative to men So that distinction is null If the Scripture hath its authority from the testimony of their Church then their faith must be ultimatly resolved into their Church testimony as more authoritative nor the word of GOD. Propter quod unumquodque est tale illud ipsum est magis tale Therefore Popish faith by this maxime is not divine but ecclesiastick and humane Now the Church and faith of Believers should be builded immediatly upon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles Iesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone Eph. 2. 20. Therefore the Pope with his traditions cannot found the Church nor the faith of Christians other foundation can no man lay then that which is laid 1. Cor. 3. 11. To this they returne a distinction that Iesus Christ is the principal and the Pope the secondary foundation seeing it was said to Peter upon this rock I will build my Church This subterfuge in like the rest if this was said to Peter personally as Tertul. de praescrip thinketh then not to his successours suppose the Pope were the man a personal individual prerogative is incoÌ„municable If it was not personal but to him and his successours then if the Apostle Paul were living the Pope behoved to be above him in dignity and Church prerogative by reason Peter was above him and he succeedeth to his superioritie This to any discerner may appear absurd Beside the Church is builded on the foundation of the Prophets and Apostles Eph. 2. 20. then not upon one Apostle take the words as ye will The true meaning of these words upon this rock I will build my Church is this the confession of Peter concerning Iesus Church the Son of the living GOD was a â—ock on which the Church was builded This interpretation is authorized by Augustin who interpreteth the words thus Tract ult in Iohan. serm 13. de verbis Apost he giveth also strong reason for it lib. 1. retract cap. 21. non enim dictum est Petro tu es petra sed tu es Petrus which reason Valentia challengeth in vain disp 1. to 3. quaest 1. punc 7. Further there câ—nnot be two foundations if we speak properly If no man can lay another as the Scripture speaketh why should it be asserted Christ Iesus alone set forth in the doctrine of Prophets and Apostles is that solid foundation on which we build all our salvation he is that sure foundation laid in Zion and no wayes can this without blasphemie be applyed to the Pope seeing the Apostle Peter maketh application of it to Christ only 1. Peter 2. 6. Thirdly When we
prophecie it vvill make against the Pope of Rome vvho giveth himself out for sole Bishop and all under him his Vicars onlie This is clear from the historie of the Trent Council lib. 7. pag. 599. Father Simon the Florentine there speaketh after the same tenour When it is demanded whither any Bishop be Jure Divino One must answer affirmativelie One onlie the Successour of Peter And thus the famous saying of Cyprian must be expounded there is but one Bishoprick and every Bishop holdeth a part thereof in solidum otherwise it cannot bâ—e defended that the government of the Church is the most perfect of all that is Monarchical but must necessarlie â—all into an Oligarchie All the Popes Prelats did speak then the same language will not this make him solus Episcopus so that in Estius sense he must be concluded to be Rex superbiae because he is sole universal Bishop The primitive Fathers studied modestie charitie humilitie But Head of the whole Church Prince of Priests infallible universal Monarch were names unknown to them Yet this is the Popes motto summarei the great foundation sine qua corruit Ecclesia saith Bellarmin in the forecited place Further worship in an unknown tongue was not heard in the Church till it was commanded by Witalianus in the 7. Cent. saith Platina and Aquinas on the 1. Cor. 14. telleth that the worship in the primitive Church was performed in the vulgar language The mutilation of the Sacrament of the Supper by withholding the cup froÌ„ the people was unknown to ant quitie For Valentia de legitimo usâ— Eucharistiae cap. 10. saith that the receiving of the Sacrament under one kind came into the Church by no decree but by the custom of the people not long before the Council of Constance at which time the custom was made a law The with-holding Scripture from people was detested in the primitive Church Was it not decreed in the Council of Nice saith Agrippa that no Christian should be without a Bible espcially if he could read in Augustin Chrysostom and Hieroms days the people are required to search the Scriptures according to the rule Iohn 5 39. Tutius ambulatur per Scripturas saith Aug. lib. 3. de doct Chri. cap. 28 nor by humane traditions or glosses Some names of things occurring in antiquitie are preserved in the Roman Church but it will be found that the Fathers understood them not in that sense nor made use of them as they do The nature of things new in Poperie is unanswerable to the old names as snal afterward appear By this we may perceive that Popery was not from the beginning The mysterie of iniquitie encreasing vain men set their posts beside the Lords posts their thresholds beside his Ezek. 43. 8. And making up a bodie of superstitious inventions have placed Religion in these which they hold forth to the world as eldest and have so falne out with Scripture truths that they are not ashamed to accuse them and their professours of noveltie heresie c. But be it known to all that we wil have no Religion to be called ours younger nor the Apostles and primitive Christians It shal eitheâ— be sixteen hundred years old it shal be founded on the Scripture sensed by pute antiquitie or else not outs Beside this their foistery that which is foisted poysoneth souls and filleth them with the East-wind For by their merits and mediatours they derogat from the honour of Christ and from the faith of Christians seeing he is is so precious to them who believe 1. Pet. 2. 7. It is not strange that contrar to Scripture they will deny the imputation of the righteousness of Christ Iesus to the blessed Elect and that imputed righteousness of Saints is affirmed by them to profit others and relieve them from temporal punishment As if the death and merits of the Mediatour were not of sufficient value to save us frâ—m all evil They say that no man can have certaintie of SalvatioÌ„ by faith and yet without any revelation they will canonize others as Saints Can any be more certain of the salvation of another nor his own Their doctrine concerning the Priests intention taketh away all certaintie of faith if the Priest do not seriously intend what he professeth to do there is no Sacrament no consecration no ordination And who but the Lord searcheth the heart and knoweth human intentions By making the Body of Christ now in Heaven to be corporally present in the Sacrament of the Supper when it is administred they deny many articles of the Christian Creed they strengthen the heresie of the Valentinians who said that his Bodie was phantastical not real they contradict the Scripture which calleth it the fruit of the vine after consecration Luke 22. 18. And Aug. tract 5. in Iohn who saith that the bread remaineth bread after the consecration and the Body of Christ a real Body after the Resurrection By their doctrine of Free-will they make free Grace to stand at the beck of the wil whither it shal be operative or not Yea they make providence in its acting dependent on the will For this is their tener GOD worketh because the will consenteth not e contra see Bellar de gratia libero arbitrio lib. 4. cap. 15. Will it not follow then that we should thank our will for our Conversion and intreat it to make grace efficacious and providence effectual Seeing it hath a negative voice in all these matters And what is more prejudicial to the providence and worship of GOD or to the efficacie of grace nor this tener which Aug refuteh well in his Enchrid cap 32. By invocation of Saints the worship of Reliques and the whole house of their imagerie they give the glory of the Lord to another and are reproved Is 42. 8. Yea there be many whom they invocat of whom they are not certain if either they were Saints or lived in the world Cassander who lived in communion with Rome acknowledgeth that much superstition is sostered by this way Consult â—1 Is it not then soul-damning By their distinction of mortal and venial sins by Purgatory by prayer for the dead by their absolution under so bare a degree of contrition they make people sin securely for under the name of vâ—nial sins they comprehend grievous crimes as sivearing by the wounds of Christ Per Membra Christi est venialis irreverentia si reverenter juretur nullâ—â—s videtur esse peccatum saith Valentia tom 3. disp 6. quast 7. punct 3. Legerdemaine in vendition ubi quantuns quale mutatur may be venial si materia sit levis saith Tolet. de 7. pecc cap. 49. whereas diverse measures without exception are declared abomination Pro. 20. 10. All these remedies which they apply after death make men less diligent in dutie while they live And if Purgatory be the Popes peculiar as they call it he must have little love to Souls and too much to his own gain who will not
directly answered by me whither on man or many should be judge of controversies To this he saith I dare not answer because I will not grant the power either to the high Bishop or general council nevertheless he findeth this to have been the constant practise of the Church both in the Old and New Testament established by the express word of God and received by the Fathers in all ages for in the Old Testament from Deut. 17. from 8. to 13. we read that GOD did command the people in matters of controversie to go to the Priests Levits and judge who should be in those days appointed by him for that end saying and thou shalt do according to the sense of the law which they shal teach thee and according to the judgement which they shal tell thee Remark he saith not according to the sense of the law which thou shalt read but which they shal teach thee not taken according to the privat judgement and spirit but according to the judgmeÌ„t which they shal tel thee where God promiseth out of their mouth judicii veritateÌ„ truth and verity in judgement or as you turn it sentence of judgement See for this also 2. Chr. 19. 8. where Jehosophat established what was first instituted Viz. a council of Levits Priests and chief fathers of Israel to judge not only between brethren and brethren blood and blood but also betwixt law and coÌ„mandments statutes and judgements Not leaving law and commandments to the peoples privat reading and interpretation as you do in your rule of faith In the 11. verse he concludeth thus Amaziah is over you in all matters of the Lord where it is evident that the council and chief Priest is established judge of controversie and not the written Word as every one readeth and expoundeth In the New Testament again you have this practise clearly set down Acts. 15. Where Paul and Barnabas though Apostles themselves go up to Jerusalem about the question of circumcising the Gentiles converted to the faith And there was holden the first council in which this is decided not out of Scripture but by the authority of the Council it self It seemed good to the Holy Ghost and us said they having the assured promise of the assistance of the Holy Ghost as the Church hath at all time Wherefore after the Apostles councils have decided with the same authority and upon the same infallible ground of the Holy Ghosts assistance promised to the Church Many controversies are acknowledged by Protestants for points of faith without express passage of Scripture Marcion teaching that Baptism should be conferred more then once and Donatists that Baptism conferred by Hereticks should be reiterated as invalid are condemned in the council holden at Rome under Melchiadâ—s Pope in the year 313. now what passage of Scripture I pray you is for this Sâ—bellius putting one person only in the God-head is câ—ndemned in the council of Alexandria under Pope Cornelius in the year 319. but scripture maketh no mention of persons Nestorius putting two persons in Christ is condemned in the Generall Council holden at Ephesus under Pope Caelestin the year 434. Yet neither doth the Scripture speak of thâ—â— The Monotheliâ—s giving to Christ one will in two Natures are condemned in the third general Câ—uncil holden at Constantinople under Pope Agathon the year 679. albeit there be no formal scripture for this So you see it belongeth both in the Old and New Testament to the high Priest and general Council to decide controversie either by Scripture if there be any passage clear for that point or without Scripture by Apostolick tradition conserved in the Church which scripture it self warranteth 2. Thess 2. 15. Hold fast the traditions which ye have learned either by word or our epistle but it seemeth you care not who be condemned or by whom if you take away all power on earth to condemne your selves Every Protestant will be condemned by none but Scripture and yet will make none judge of the Canon Version and sense of Scripture but himself All your answer is that we grant the Promulgation of the law to the pure Gospel Church but you shew not what is this pure Gospel Church neither can you infallibly prove the purity of the Gospel it self or that there is a Gospel or the true sense of the Gospel but by the Catholick Church her authority Hear Aug. contta Ep. fund cap. 5. Where he saith I my self would not have believed the Gospel were it not that the authority of the Church moved me to it Now the Catholick Church is that whose faith is spread through all the world in the Apostle Paul his time which maketh her to be justlie called the Catholick Roman Church and whose faith hath been in all ages since Christ which all the records of the Protestant writters witness of the Roman Church wherein the succession of Popes Bishops Councils is made conspicuous to all who have written Chronology or Church history in every age none whereof make mention of your Church or of men professing your tenets before Luther and Calvin from whom ye dissent in many things Answer first This is a prolix reply the Pro. Du. 1 substance of which might have been taken up in seven or eight lines As it is spacious so it is an impertinent rapsodie and like a beggers cloak clouted here and there with divers parcells without any method or cohesion It seemeth to have been taken out of some Index and cast in here to fill the page For the answer was That the promulgation of the law is not denyed to the pure Gospell-Church which is not the Roman-Church for it is impure Is not this a direct answer You prove that there hath been a Ministerial-Church in the old and new Testament which we doe not deny but this is the point did they so pronounce sentence and decide Controversies that all discretive judgement was taken from people or called they themselves infallible whether they had scripture warrand or not Or wil the promise of presence to the Apostles Prophets and penners of Scripture in measure and duration agree to any Church Officers now on Earth Or should promises made to the Universal-Church agree to any particular Church such as Rome Or will promises made to the collective body of the Church agree to the representative unless these be proved you fight with your own shadow For we are much for the authority of Christs Church and think that her judgment of old and late should sway privat men unless they can prove by scripture or sound reason that she erreth We are much for the authority of all lawful Councils and we give them all reverence in regard of the authority of their constitution but if they depart from the scriptures we owe them not active obedience Well speaketh our learned Camero tom 1. tract de infallibilitate ecclesiae So oft as any thing is decreed by a Council or assembly of men appointed by lawfull autharity
in the Church it should have this weight with us that rashly without grave and diligent enquiry after the truth it should not be rejected by us And whereas it is alleadged there will be no effectual way against Controversies and divisions in religion unlesse some one supream and infallible judge be appointed on Earth in whose â—udgement and decision parties controverting should â—â—st and acquiesce It may be well answered in your own Bellarmin his wordes lib. 2. de Concil cap. 19. It is no wonder if the Church remaine without any humane remedy seeing the welfare of it doth not primarily rely upon humane industrie but upon divine protection seeing its King is GOD therefore may and ought the Church to pray unto God and it is certaine he will care for the well-fare of it Answer second Albeit I cannot comprehend the purpose of this laxe discourse yet Pro. Duply 2 for satisfaction to the Reader I shal inform him in these 5. particulars First what Papists mean by the Church or whither they understand themselves in this Secondly Whither Church officers since the dayes of the Apostles are infallible Thirdly What kind of obedience should be tendered to them Fourthly What government the Christian Church should have whither Papal and Monarchical or Aristocratical and Ministerial Fifthly How that testimony of Augustia non credidissem Scripturae c. is to be understood For the first by the Church all the Jesuits who are the Popes life-guard understand the Pope So Valentia disk Theol. tom 1. disp 1. qu. 1. Coster Enchir de sum Pont Gretser Colloq Ratis Ses 1. Bell. hanketeth in the point for once he saith that the Pope without the Council may determine matters of faith De Christo. lib. 2. cap. 28. and de Concil lib. 2. cap. 17. Against this de verbo Dei lib. 3. cap. 3. he saith the Pope with a Council is the judge of the true sense of Scripture So speaketh this reflecter The Sorbonists Jansenists and others of the Popish partie understand by the Church the present Romish officers assisted by the Pope and stand by the Canons of the Councils of Constance Sess 4. 5. and Basil Sess 2. wherein it was decreed that the Pope should obey the Council The Council of Trent according to its manner is ambiguous herein Sess 4. decr 2. And saith that the Church should judge the true sense of Scripture yet tell us not what they mean by the Church Now whatever way it be taken whither for Pope or Council there must be another judge of controversies otherwise the Church wanted a judge 300 years for there was no such judge then pretending to the infallible supremacie now claimed Secondly The Romish Synagogue headed by the Pope cannot be our judge for they are party partial against whom we have just acception Thirdly Is not this a jugling trick that when controversies occasioned and raised by them are in the Christian Church they will have none to be judge but themselves so they would be sure of the sentence and must suspect their own cause Fourthly If by the Church they mean the Pope as now they mantain it is hard to call him judge of controversies seeing it is a great controversie whither there should be any Pope at all and beyond controversie with us that he is an usurper Fifthly According to the Popish tenet the intention of the Priest is necessar in his ordination in his Baptism succession without interruption is necessar and Simony maketh him no Pope as Gratian telleth from the Canon law causa 2. qu. 1. Now if so he may be a Pagan for who knoweth the Priests intention who baptized him He may be a Laick and yet without ordination upon the same ground if one be such it marreth uninterrupted succession and so ceaseth the Pope Then by your own writters it is clear that many Popes entered by Simony as Barronius testifieth Annal tom 9. ad annum Christi 912. And Alexander the 6. was notorious that way This un Popeth all for it breaketh the chain of succession and leaveth the Church collective without any judge It is clear hence how slipperie the Romish Church is in its foundations seeing he whom they call the Church may be a Pagan Secondly As to the second thing proposed viz. Whither Church officers since the days of the Apostles are infallible The Church whither taken for Pope or Council or Pope Council is not infallible When the Councils condemned hereticks of old they did it not pro arbitratu imperio but judged by the Scriptures which is indeed an infallible rule but the church taken whither for Pope or Council or Pope and Council is not infallible First If the Jewish-church erred in matter of faith and worship then may the christian-church erre also For they had statutes judgements and promises to them were committed the oracles of GOD. Rom. 3. 2. But Aaron and the people erred grosly Ex 32. So did Uriah the Priest 2. Kings 16. May not then Popes erre Seeing Aaron the saint of the Lord was not infallible Yea both Priest and Prophet erred in judgement see Is 28. 7. on which words Sanctius the Jesuit saith Priests Prophets and people were spiritually drunk Did not the Church rulers while the Levitical Priest-hood lasted procure the death of Christ Secondly Under the Gospel Popes and Councils have erred Ergo they are not infallible Tertullian telleth contra Praxetam that Eleutherius the Pope approved Montanus heresie and obtruded it on the Church as his Irenicum Your own Barronius telleth ad ann 302. that Marcellus the Pope sacrificed to Idols Athaudsius †Athanasius in epist ad Solitariam vitam agentes testifieth that Liberius the Pope was Arrian Honorius was condemned in the sixth General Council as a Monothelit Anastasius the Pope saith Alphonsus de cast lib. 5. cap. 25. was Nestorian Now can Monothelism Nestorianism Arrianism Montaaism and Idolatry be â—nherent to a man infallible Or can a chair make that man who is Arrian Orthodoxe or him who sacrificeth to Idols unerring who will believe this Councils may erre adversaries being judges Occam asserteth so much and Petrus Alliaco Cardinalis qu. vespert art 3. for he saith that this promise the gates of hell shal not prevail against the Church is made universo catui fidelium to the whole number of the faithful not to the representative Church which may erre Panor sup 1. part sib decret Dicit Ecclesiam quae non potest errare esse totam collectionem fidelium nam ista est Ecclesia quae non potest errare that is the whole company of believers which cannot erre Nic. de Clemang in his disp with the Parisians saith the promise Matth. 18. as likewise that Iohn 16. The spirit of truth shal lead you into all truth belongeth only to spiritual ones and it were better to be much in fasting and prayer for direction then to bragge we cannot erre So then I reason the Pope may erre
Councils may erre Ergo the Pope and Council may erre The argument will hold here a divisis ad conjugata as well as thus the Magistrat may be diseased and his council infected therefore both Magistrat and Council are subject to sickness It is a deluding evasion to say that the Councils confirmed by the Pope cannot erre for the Jesuits place the infallibility in the Pope the Parlsians in the Council and they are not agreed in this amongst themselves In the sense of the one a Church Session confirmed by the Pope is as infallible as a Council And in the sense of the other a Council confirmed by a privat Bishop is at infallible as if it were confirmed by the Pope Thus then we argue that must have no entity which can find no subject but Papists cannot agree upon the subject of this infallibility therefore it is not ens Further General Councils have been of this judgement that the Popes consent is not requisit for making their decrees right For in the Council of Chalcedon where were conveened 630. fathers in the year 454. where Martianus the Emperour was present it was contrar to the desire of the Popes Legats appointed that seeing the seat of Rome had no divine warrand for its supremacie Constantinople should have alike priviledges with it This was as full a Council as we read of and yet all these fathers thought the Popes coÌ„sent not necessary for their statutes Yea they declared his supremacie not to be Juris Apostolici in the first Council of Constantinople which was the second generall Council The Councills of Constance and Basil judged the Council to be above the Pope In the first three generall Councills the Pope did not so much as preside in them either by himself or by his legats For in the first presided Hosius Bishop of Corduba In the second Nectaâ—ius Bishop of Constantinople And in the third at Ephesus Cyril Bishop of Alexandria in which Councills Controversies were deterrained by the plurality of suffrages and every one of the fathers there did subscrive their name to the constitutions and conclusions of the Council The council of Trent again did all Proponentibus legatis therefore either it or they were in an errour so not infallible And indeed it is above dispute that the council of Trent was erronious and not the council of Chalcedon in that which Gregory the Great and all ancients so extoll and commend This is said not in the least to derogate from lawfull councills which we judge necessary helps for ordering the effaires of the house of God in diverse exigencies Yea we give more to the foure Generall Councills then Papists doe for they cast both at the second and fourth But we have another judge and determiner the Scripture of God Augustin confirmeth this Nec ego nicaenum nec tu debes Ariminense tanquaÌ„ prajudicaturus †Aug. contra Maxi. Arrian Episcop praeferre consilium nec ego hujus auctoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum auctoritatibus non quorumcunque propriis sed utrisque communibus testibus res cum re causa cum causa ratio cum ratione consentiat i. e. Neither would I preferre the Nicen nor ought you as prejudged to preferre the Arimin council I am not holden by this or thou by that but by the authority of the Scriptures which are witnesses common to all appropriat to none let one thing agree with another cause with cause reason with reason Thirdly As to the third thing proposed The Church is not appointed to be obeyed Pro. An. 3 but in subordination to the law of God for I know not the Church but by the word therefore I cannot obey it but by it also Secondly Subjects should not judge the law authoritatively If thou judge the law thou art not a doer of it Iames 4. 11. The word of God is the law and all churches are subject to it Thirdly The Text you cite the 17. of Deut. from the 8. v. to the 13 where the people are commanded to go to the Priests for decision of controversiies hath this expresly in it v. 11. According to the sentence of the law which he shall teach thee Cajetan upon the place sayeth That in the Hebrew it is super oâ— legis ideo doctrina eorum esset conformis divinae legi There doctrine of decision should be warrandable by the law Glossa ordinaria explaineth the place thus non dicitur tibi ut obedias nisi â—uxta legens docuerint i. e. thou art not commanded to obey if they teach not according to the law Lyra is of the same judgement si dicant falsum non sunt credendi if they speak false they are not to be believed In Mal. 2. 7. The Lord sheweth that the Priests lips should preserve knowledge where he declareth not what was for they had gone out of the way at that time but what should be Ribera saith the words are not to be read in the present but in the future tense and according to Cyril he is called the Messenger of the Lord because he should give men of the oracles of God as he hath received them from the Lord. Also that place Matth. 23. 2. where Church rulers are appointed to be heard when they siâ— in Moses chair Theophylact expoundeth iâ— quando docent ea quae continentur in lege when they teach the things contained in the law O if your Scribes and Pharisees would do so they might be better heard That place 2. Chr. 19. 8. 11. concerning Amaziah who was over them in all matters of the Lord holdeth only forth this that Magistracy and Ministry are distinct offices And in the church of Jerusalem albeit the Apostles were infallible yet they proceed according to the word and built their sentence on the Prophets Acts 15. 14. these places prove that implicit obedience is not to be given to any Church rulers And the Bâ—reans were commended for searching the Scriptures when the message was delivered to them How gross then is Bellarmin who saith †Bell. lib. 4. de â—ont cap. 5. Sâ— Papa erraret praecipiendo vita prohibendo virtutes tenetur Ecclesia credere virtutes esse malas vitia bâ—nâ— If the Pope saith he should coÌ„mend vice and call it good which they grant he may do notwithstanding of his infallibility then people were bound to obey and call vice good Valentia saith more that the people are bound without any enquiry Valent. Tom. 3. disp 1. disp 7. qu. 3. Punct â— to erre with their rulers and errores corum in tali causa sunt actus Christianae obedientiae their errours are acts of Christian obedience Aeternae vitae meritoriae deserving eternal life When Papists speak so great absurdities what will they not do for their interest Fourthly As to the fourth thing proposed Pro. An. 4 the Church of Christ is to be ruled by its officers lawfully called but the government of it here is not Monarchical
but Aristocratical Under the New Testament the Lord appointed no visible Monarch on earth to be an officer in his church for our last appeal in dubious cases is regulated by that well known Scripture Matth. 18. 17. If he will See Bish Laud. againstâ— Fisher not hear the church let him be to thee as a publican Now it is absurd to say that this should be the sense of it tell the Pope for in no language the word Church can signifie a visible Monarch Secondly The council of Jerusalem maketh not for this for not only proceed they upon Scripture grounds but although they were infallible men yet none of them took the Papal way and the government was not Monarchical It seemed good to the holy Ghost and us Thirdly Church power is Ministerial Matth. 20. 25. 26. 2. Cor. 1. 24. 1. Pet. 5. 3. but Monarchy is Magisterial therefore it agreeth not with church power And when Papists reason for the power of the church and mention councils the argument may be thus propounded church officers councils have been appointed to rule and order the affairs of the house of God Ergo they may do what they will and who can say unto them what dost thou I deny the consequence Ergo the Pope is one of these officers it is absolutly refused And this is summa totalis of the prolix answer to the fourth question which may be taken away with a word Ergo if the word make not for them theâ— they may betake themselves to their own traditions and rule by them That is denyed also by us And suppose they should give the Law to their own Vassals will it therefore follow that they empire it over the whole Christian-church And seeing all churches are bound to a rule can any be infallible which have need of a rule When you make the Pope your church do ye not build your faith on him Is this like the foundation Eph. 2. 20. What is this but to make your faith humane And is it not absurd to say that Alexander the siâ—â—h Pope Iohn 22. in the cathedra were infallible as the Prophets and Apostles in dyting Scripture they cannot blush who speak so Fifthly As for the fifth particular viz. That place of Augustin cont ep fund cap. 5. I would not have believed the Scripture Pro. An. 5 unless the authority of the church had moved me Our Divines have answered fully long ago so it is a threed bare argument for he speaketh not there concerning the formal reason why Scripture is believed but concerning the mean and motive by which intrants are brought at first to the knowledge of the Scripture I mean the consused knowledge of the Scripture as when a man delivereth a letter he may tell from whom it is but the faith of it is from the subscription So here then by the church he understandeth not the church or Pope of Rome but the Primitive-church of the faithful which did hear see Christ and his Apostles So saith Durand †Dur lib. dist 24. qu. 1. he had to do with the Manichees who would make him believe their Gospel No saith he the testimony of those who did see with their eyes hear with their ears and handle the word of life is to be preferred to your assertion and this is a motive which made me at first quite Manichism and close with the Gospel of Christ so speaketh Melchior Canus lib. 2. de loc cap. 8. therefore it maketh nothing for the imperious supremacie of the Pope or Church in matters of faith fot there is a difference between coÌ„muma motivafidei and formalis ratio credendi See learned and perspicuous Dr. Barron against Turnebul Tract 4. pag. 188. Who hath unanswerably demonstrated this truth and so interpreteth these words of Augustin The testimony of the church is a principle inductive and a motive to new intrants to read hear and consider the holy Scriptures and it produceth only an humane faith the inward testimony of the holy Spirit is the principle effective of divine faith and the Scriptures themselves are the formal reason and terminative principle whereinto divine faith is resolved as a building upon its foundation Eph. 2. 20. To conclude this answer We judge that the pure Gospel Church is and should be the pronouncer of divine sentence from the Scripture that the authority of Councils should be inrerposed for making men willing and obedient to the divine law so should the Magistrat concurre in his station for that effect But the church of Rome is not pure nor like that which once it was in the Apostle Paul his time and at no time could she be called the Universal church far less now Albeit then her faith was spoken of throughout all the world Is this a good argument the faith of the Church of Brittain is mentioned throughout all the reformed churches of Transylvania Hungaria Polland Germany Bohaemia Flanders France and Helveâ—ia therefore it is the universal-Universal-church no we claim no more but to be a Sister church to these in the confession of faith according to the Scriptures †Alb. Pighius lib. 6. Eccl. hierarc cap. 3. and all together make up the Universal-church And any one of these is preferable to the church at Rome as it is now corrupted and apostatized Will ye hear Albertus Pighius Quis unquam per Romanam Ecclesiam intellexit universalem who ever did by the Roman Church understand the Church universal Why do ye then speak so and ambitiously empire it over all the world Question fifth Seeing no Scripture is of Pa. Qu. 5 privat interpretation 2. Pet. 1. 20. should privat men take upon them to interpret the same Answer The sense of that text is no scripture Pro. An. is the indytment of a privat spirit but proceedeth from the holy Ghost for it followeth holy men of GOD spake as they were moved by the holie Ghost and it came not of old by the will of men Therefore it is no ways to be thought that privat men should be barred from searching the Scripture seeing Christ Jesus commanded the contrar Io. 5. 39. This was spoken to a whole multitude of persecuting Jews The word is the sword of the spirit Eph. 6. 17. should any privat man be disarmed amongst his foes And blessed is he whither privat or publict who meditateth in the law of the Lord day and night Ps 1. Reply In your fifth answer you grant with the Apostle that no prophecie of the Scripture Pa. Rep. is of any privat interpretation so should you grant also that the Scriptures cannot be rightly expounded of every privat spirit and fancie of the vulgar Reader but by the same spirit wherewith they were writren which resolveth in the Church And I am very confident no learned or wise Protestant will allow any privat man to expound scripture against the common consent of the whole Catholick Church wherein they were immediatly before But you insist that it is
not to be thought that privat mâ—n should be barred from searching the scripture seeing it is contrar to that text John 5. 39. where if by searching the Scripture you mean the reading and interpretation of it that cannot be the sense of it For the Apostle Paul saith 1. Cor. 12. GOD hath set in the Church Prophets Apostles Doctors c. Then he addeth are all Apostles are all Prophets are all Doctors do all interpret Then this doth not belong to every man to read and interpret Scripture but to search the deep meaning and sense thereof from the Doctors of the Church For the Jews did search the scripture reading and hearing it read in their Synagogues and yet did deny Christ to be the Messiah which scripture doth clearly testifie Even as Protestants do read Scripture and in it the real presence the power to forgive sins granted to men justification by faith and good works anointing the sick virginity preferred to marriage and yet deny all this Wherefore as Christ exhorteth the Jews to do it with greater reflection and attention not superficially turning and shuffling it over as Protestants do so do I exhort them The word is the sword of the spirit upon which you inferre should any privat man be disarmed amongst his soes So let me tell you that the Apostle calling it a sword sheweth that it should not be put into a mad mans hand or in the hand of a fool i. e. Poor ignorants who as Peter saith wrest it to their own destruction and yet this is your consequence if it should be granted to all privat men Children and fools get not arms amongst their foes wherewith they might rather wrong themselves then their enemies but are under the protection of their Paedagogues and attendants And so the ignorant should not easily handle the sword of the word being ignorant and only capable of the letter but should receive the sense thereof from the Church and her Pastors that it may be to them an arme of defence Pro. Duply 1 Answer first All this is answered fully in the return of the first question to which place I referre the Reader lest I make idle repetition If the rule of right reasoning had been observed nothing of this ought to have come in formerly but here in its own proper place I distinguished betwixt privat men and privat interpretations then betwixt the extraordinar gift of interpreting and the ordinar Thirdly Betwixt the priviledge and the exercise Privat men have the priviledge to search the Scriptures you say it should be by no other then doctors if that be true then the Lord Jesus did not direct the people who heard him to use prayer and meditation for knowing the Scriptures but to go to their rulers Scribes and Pharisees who did what they could to make the Scriptures testifie against him and all his I appeal to the conscience or reason of any if this exposition on the place can hold water Or if an indvidual act such as this being performed by another is an obedience to a command If this exposition be good then when the Lord pronounceth the man blessed who meditats in the Law day and night the sense of it must be if his Pastors do it for him it is enough Who will admit this But the one is as true as the other Secondly You contradict your self for once you say that privat men should not interpret Pro. An. 2 Scripture but take it from the mouth of the church then immediatly you exhort them to do it not superficially but with attention and we exhort to no more Thirdly You make all the people who are Pro. An. 3 privat men mad fools and Children by your coÌ„parison in whose hand the word of GOD should not be put then it must be taken from them and how agreeth this with the former exhortation What if this were told to the Kings and Queens who are Popâ—sh By the testimony of your doctors ye are all de clared unfit to rule others for mad men fools children caÌ„not govern In effect ye guide theÌ„ as such in divine matters for ye muzle and blindfold the people all this passeth under the notion of Paedagogy But sad is the case of such pupils â—f they knew what belonged to their peace Let ignorants be catechised and trained in the ways of GOD this may make them more discerning of the sense and meaning of the word of God Seneca telleth Coenant nobiscum quidam quia sunt docti alii ut sint doâ—li Some men suppe with us because they are learned others that they may be learned The testimonies of the Lord make wise the simple should they then be deprived of them Question sixth Ye agree not about the Pa. Qu. 6 rule for some cast at the Epistle of James others receive it Answer None of the pure reformed do Pro. Qu. so it was only rejected by some Lutherians in which we do not owne them Secondly The number of Scripture books is not the question but whither these mantained by all be the rule of saith Seeing all men are murable creatures and at their best state vanity Popes clash with Popes Councils with Councils Pulpits with Pulpits let any judge whither it be safest that the revealed will of God be our rule or the dictats of self contradicting men Reply You say none of these pure reformed Pa. Reply reject the Epistle of James and you disclaime the Lutherians who do so and they you for I am confident they will acknowledge none for pure reformers who take an Epistle for scripture which they hold to be none Then you say the number of Scripture books is not the question Sir you move questions as you please but hear Mr. Hooker one of your most learned Protestants lib. 1. Eccl. pol. Sect. 14. pag. 36. of these things necessar saith he the very chief is to know what books we esteem holy which is impossible for it self to teach Apply this to your only determiner of faith in your first answer And truely I think this should be the first question of all to the pure reformed according to the pure word of God as you cal them which are the books of the pure word of GOD Now if you answer these are mantained by all which you make the rule of faith how few books of Scripture shal be this rule if any at all For there be few or none whereof some have not doubted or flatly denyed Saint Augustin contra Faustum Manichaeum and lib. de mor. Eccl. cap. 1. Saith the Manichees did deny Moses and the Prophets the Jews did deny the New Testament What books of Scripture are mantained by all For by that you make the consent of all judge of canonical Scripture how then can you disclaim tradition and say immediatly after men are mutable creatures and at their best state vanity Seeing upon the consent of men ye take up your rule of faith and number of Scripture books I know other Protestants
alleadge for this that the books of Scripture like the Sun shew themselves to be such to him who hath the spirit But I would ask at such why the Rev. St. James Epistle the second of St. Peter and two of St. John did not shew themselves to be Scripture to Luther that spiritual man and the Protestants very first Apostle in the work of reformation in the end you say Let any judge whither it be safest that the revealed will of God be your rule and determiner or the dictats of self contradicting creatures Where you seem to rubbe on Catholicks But Sir this toucheth not them at all for they profess not to believe self-contradicting creatures but the unanimous consent of Councils and fathers or the Catholick Church known to be the only Church established by Christ and his Apostles and by the continued succession of Popes Bishops and Pastors the unity universality and gifts of miracles in all ages c. Which Christ hath called the ground and pillar of truth 1. Tim. 3. 15. and against which he assureth us the gates of hell shal not prevail Math. 16. 18. and which he hath commanded us to hear otherwise to be holden as heathens and publicans Math. 18. 17. so you see that the written word maketh the Church our judge which we should obey and that ye who make so much of the written word do not believe it when ye do not obey her And here I remarke that Protestant Ministers and preachers deceive the people in that they ground their faith on the written word only and Roman Catholicks say they on humane tradition and their Churches authority which being composed of men is subject to errour Whereas the contrar is true for Roman Catholicks believe nothing which the written word believing both the tradition of the Church and Apostles doth not expresly warrand As for the Church what is more expresly said then what I have cited both to prove that we are bound to hear her Mat. 18. 18. and hold her authority infallible Math. 16. 18 and the house of God which is the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3. 15. Neither doth it avail you to say this is not said of the Roman Church which is not the universal Church but a particular one a strumpet c. For we speak not of any particular Church when we say that the Church is infallible nor when we say the Roman the Catholick do we understand the particular Church at Rome But that Church which professeth constantly the Romans faith spread in saint Pauls time through all the world As we call yet the Roman Empire that which hath its seat in Vien of Austria Yea Protestants calling their own the reformed Church cannot say but we have one Church on earth which Christ commanded us to hear constantly And if the reformed Church be the true Church then she must have taken the place from that church which was deformed and had fallen into an errour and so deserved no more to be called the pillar and ground of truth or to be heard Moreover the very pillars of the Protestant Religion grant all the world to be in an errour before themselves and so against the express written Word must deny the infallibility of any Church whatever For Calv. Instit lib. 4. cap. 18. saith they made all the Kings and People of the earth drunk from the first to the last and Hospinian epist 41. saith Luthers separation was from all the world White in his defence chap. 37. saith Popery was a leprosie breeding so universally in the church that there was no visible company of men free from it Jewel in his Sermon on Luke 11. The whole world Princes and people were overwhelmed by ignorance and bound by oath to the Pope which if it be true that the Church in former ages did erre the reformed Church may erre that themselves do not deny Thence it followeth clearly that the Protestant Church is not the house of GOD called the pillar and ground of truth that she is not Christs Church against which the gates of hell shal not prevail that none are bound to hear her in matters of faith being subject to errour And so Protestants may well desire men to read the Scripture and believe what they found there but not urge any man to follow their doctrine but in so far as they find it conforme to Scripture which all Roman Catholicks protest they do not As for traditions are we not commanded to hold them in the clear written Word 2. Thess 2. 15. Hold the traditions which ye have learned whither by word or our epistle Protestants read documents but documents by word and traditions are the same thing on which place Chrysost saith It is evident that the Apostle did not deliver all things by writ but many things by word which are worthy of credit as wel as the other That is Christs word as well as his writ therefore we call them divine and Apostolical traditions Aug. lib. 5. de Trinit cap. 23. speaking of rebaptization The Apostle saith he commanded nothing of it but that customâ— which is believed to proceed from the Apostle is opposed against Cyprian in it as many things are which the whole Church holdeth and therefore are believed to be commanded by the Apostles though not written Aâ—d in the first age saint Dennis chap. 1. speaking of the Ecclesiastick hierarchy saith These our chief captains of Priestly function did deliver to us the chiefest and supersubstantial points partly in written partly in unwritten institutions Epiph. Haeres 61. is of the same minde we must hold traditions saith he for the Scripture hâ—th not all things and Tertullian de praescrip grounds his faith on the authority of the Church and what tradition I believe saith he I received from the present Church the present Church from the primitive that from the Apostles the Apostles from Christ Here I hope you see you must either admit traditions as necessar in themselves and infallible in their authority or else disclaim both Scripture and Fathers All that Protestants can say either against the authority of the Church in general Councils or Apostolick traditions delivered by her is that all her decisions and traditions flow from men and so are not infallible But I answer neither were the Prophets Apostles Evangelists who penned the Scripture but men yet I hope their writtings are not fallible or subject to errour Because they were inspired directly and assisted by the Spirit of God The Fathers of the Church have to this day that promise verified to them Math. 28. 20. which was made as well to their successours as to themselves As for that some Protestante speak of an invisible Church composed of the Elect it is but a shift to delude the ignorant for as it is a Maxime of law Idem est non esse non apparere i. e. it is the same not to be and not to appear to be in the matter of any
as appeareth from Aug. contra Cresconium lâ—b 2. cap. 3. and ep 48. This was one of the weapons whereby they did bâ—at the Donatists Answer The ground of separation of the Donatists was the personall vices of men Prote ∣ stants Answer not the doctrine professed in the Church For in that they agreed with the universall Church as is clear from the above mentioned ep Now we did not separat from Rome because their Popes whom they take for a patron have been Atheists Hereticks denyers of the soules immortalitie Whore mongers c. as their own writters confess in the lives of Silvester 2. Alexander 6. Iohn 22. and many moe but because ye apostatized from the Apostles doctrine and corrupted the worship miserably so these testimonies concern not us Secondly If interrupted succession make void the Ministry ye Papists have none at Ans 2. all For ye often had Anti-Popes and the Councill at Pisa deposed two Popes at once as Hereticks departing from the faith The Councill of Constance deposed Iohn 23. for denying the immortality of the soul and the resurrection Behold then your succession and the infallibility of your Popes Eugenius the fourth was deposed by the Council of Basil and all the following Popes were his successours albeit the Council judged Faelix the fifth to be Pope Yea further this place hath vaiked for many years together so that a line of immediat successours cannot be drawn by your selves Thirdly We have a lawful Ministry as Ans 3. powerful as the world affordeth honoured by the blessing of the Lord by begetting souls to himself and many can from their experience say that it hath been the power of GOD to their salvation how then can you challenge our Ministry Is not this near of kine to that old Anti-Christian question proponed to our Master by what authority dost thou these things And if personal succession had such weight as you say the Priesthood under the law had been at a great loss For the line of it was interrupted oftner then once before the coming of Christ yet he commendeth submission and obedience to them so long as they did sit in Moses chair and no further Matth. 23. 1. So that in Ministers it is the Doctrine and not the Genealogy of persons that is so much regarded Reply In your eleventh Answer you grant personal vices are not a sufficient ground Papists Reply of sepaâ—ation from the Church and say that Protestants did only separat themselves from the worship miserablie polluted and because the Roman Church had Apostatized from the Apostolick Doctrine But Sir let me ask you when the Catholick Roman Church which before your Reformation at least was a true Church Apostatized And who was a competent judge to declare her Apostacie and give you leave to separat Was â—t Scripture as according to your first rule you must say Then I ask if two or three under pretence of a Reformation may adhere to what they think to be in Scripture against the judgement of the whole Church at that time Which â—ssuredly all must grant who teach that the true Church may erre and so give the same libertie to all Sectaries which they take so boldly to themselves But albeit you say your separation was not from our personal vyces yet you impute in the by going heresie denying of the souls immortalitie whoredom to two or three of our Popes Silvester the second Alexander the sixth John the twenty two How justly we shal presently see But however this were true it could no more wrong the Popes authority in his Canonical decrees then Davids adultery or Solomons Idolatrie in penning Scripture Neither is it a great wonder that amongst 240. Popes there have been two or three evil Since even amongst twelve Apostles there was one Judas Nor do Catholicks canonize all their Popes although for these three whom ye name wicked they have 33. most famous Martyrs and Saints What ever they teach as privat doctors as it mâ—keth no law in the Church so it cannot derogat in the least to their decision and doctrine as Popes But to answer for these three what Martinus Polemius and the Magdeburgh say against Silvester the second as a Magician is known by all the learned to be meer fables imputed to him for his eminent knowledge and learning in the Mathematicks which made the ninth Age wherein he lived to call him a Magician because of its gross ignorance Alexander the sixth is also blamed for lewdness by no impartial writter And what Calvin saith lib. 4. instir against John 22. is known to be errour and lies speaking of him as Pope whatever was his opinion as a privat Doctor of the soul before the day of judgement which he disclaimed to be his at his death professing and protesting that he had never any belief but that of the Catholick Church saith John Williams lib. 11. hist cap. 19. But Hereticks speak of Popes as Rebels of Kings discontented subjects of Ministers of state and criminals of their lawful judges which no wise man will much regard Then to shew that we have not an uninterrupted succession you speak first of Anti-Popes as if they did interrupt the succession of Popes more then Usurpers the succession of Kings Secondly Of Popes deposed by Councils but you cannot instance that any lawful Pope was deposed by any general Council what ever Thirdly You say the See of Rome hath vaiked for many years To which I answer as Kings die not so neither Popes as it doth not interrupt the succession of Elective Kings that after the death of one there be long debate before the Election of another the royal power then residing in the Electours so neither interrupteth it the succession of Popes and their Election You speak nothing of your own succession because ye have none You bragge much of a powerful Ministrie but shews no call you had to the Ministrie from GOD nor his Church so we had good reason to challenge it albeit you call this an Anti-Christian question to ask at new upstarts who pretend to reforme the Church who gave you a call because the Jews had such a question to Christ But Christ John 15. 24. saith if he had not shewed himself to be the Son of GOD by his words and works which none else could do no man had been obliedged to belive him Yet ye will have us to believe you are lawful Ministers without succession or a call and that Luther and Calvin were extraordinarily sealed for Reformation without the least sign mark or miracle shewing that they were sent for that end So that in Ministers you conclude it is the Doctrine more then the Genealogie of persons which is so much regarded As if preaching of true doctrine were sufficiant to make a man a Minister without any ordination or call the Scripture expresseth another thing saying how shal they preach except they be sent And as to seek true successsion of Bishops and Pastours in
other differences we are not for one GOD one Faith one Baptism it is absurd to speak so Question thirteenth May there not as yet Papists qu. 13 be an accommodation and union betwixt you and us Answer Will ye be like the Church at Rome to which the Apostle Paul did wâ—ite Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 his Epistle we will presently accord with any prosessing that faith and not destroying it by contradicting consequences and practices But ye are no more like that Church of Rome except in name then a strumpet is like to a Virgin The Epistle to the Romans is now against the Romans witness the point of Justification and subjection to the higher powers Secondly Will ye take the Scripture for the only rule of faith worship and manners We differ from none such But ye regard not the Scripture so much as your own traditions For ye fainzie that it is imperfect obscure must have an authoritie from your word otherwise that it is not to be believed Thirdly Those who have intended that work have lost their labour and thanks at all hands as Cassander Antonius de Dominis Barnesius Forbesius What agreemeÌ„t can the Temple of God have with Idols 2. Cor. â— 14. Reply In your 13. Section you answer to a Papists Reply Question which no Catholick would have made if ye understand by an accommodation betwixt you and us such as are in Scottish Trysts We granting something to you and ye something to us For as to gain the whole world a man should not lose his own soul so neither can be quyt one article of his faith without which it is impossible to please God But your way being better asking only two conditions to make this so much desired agreement The first is if ye will be like that Church of Rome to which the Apostle Paul did write his Epistle And the second is that we will take scripture for a rule We most willingly grant you both not taking scripture as every bungler who wresteth it but according to the exposition of the Church and the unanimous consent of the fathers Appoint the meeting where ye please on these terms He challenge no moe calumnies on this Question seeing now we are in terms of agreement having sufficiently confuted them before Duply You say no Catholick would have moved the question Are ye nâ—â— for unitie in the Lord amongst all Christians where is Prote ∣ stants Duply 1 your charitie now I remember you said once nothing here was mentioned by me but what was mentioned by others but now you graunt this hath nor come to your ears formerly this is strange Have you not seen Grotius and de Sancta Clara who move the same wheel At first you seem to be against all accommodation asmuch as against all reformation You cannot quite on article not unum jot a saith Bellarmin otherwise your Church might be declared fallible therefore such as hanker after reconciliation with you unless they mind to come up your length will prove fools in the end and lose all their labour Yet on a sudden you forget your self accepting of these terms offered but in repetition you embezle them unfaithfully For first will ye be like that Church to which the Apostle Paul did writ in point of justification by faith and subjection to the Magistrat These two you leave out being conscious that ye are contrar to divine direction in both these And how cometh it to pass that when the Apostle chap. 16. saluteth so many Saints at Rome he omitteth the Pope If he was then head of the Church and maketh no mention of his supremacie nor of their subjectioÌ„ to him which is summa rei one of your fundamentals seeing chap. 13. he ordained them for conscience sake to be subject to Nero. The world may see that the Apostle Paul hath been no Papist Secondly When you propound the second condition it is propounded lame barely you say that ye hold the Scripture for a ruleâ— but I said for the only rule of faith worship and manners Hold that then ye renounce traditians in matters of faith for the law of the Lord is perfect Ps 19. The Popes infallibility and univeâ—sal supremacie your latine worship communion under one kind prayers to Saints and for the dead Purgatory all which are clearly confuted by Scripture So if ye do not adhere to these conditions the meeting will be to smal purpose where ever it be appointed Justin Martyr Expos recta fidei saith Amongst the children of the Church matters divine must not be ordered and directed according to mens reason and thoughts but our speach and interpretation of them should be sitted to the sense and will of the Spirit of GOD. Basil in Exercit. de Fide It is a manifest defection from the faith and a clear evidence of pride either to reject any of these things which the Scripture contain or to bring in as a point of faith any thing which is not written in the word and he citeth that of our blessed Lord Iohn 10. 5. My sheep hear my voice a stranger they will not hear but flee from him Hilar. lib. 1. de Trinit when we speak of divine matters let us give to GOD the knowledge of himself and let us with all veneration follow his sayings for he is a meâ—t witness to himself who is not known but by himself Aug. lib. 6. Conf. cap. 5. Thou hast perswâ—ded me O GOD that not these men who believe these books which thou in all Ages hast founded upon thy authority are to be blamed but such as believe them not neither are they to be heard If any perchance should say to me whence knowest thou these books to have been ministred to man-kind by the Spirit of the one and most true GOD even that very same thing was mostly to be believed Aug. lib. 2. de Baptismo contra Donatist as Let us not bring false ballanceâ— wherein we may weigh what we will and as we will according to our own arbitriment saying this is heavy that is light but let us bring the divine ballance out of the holy Scriptures as the Lords treasurie and let us weigh in it what is more heavy and weighty Yea let us not weigh only but also acknowledge scriptuval truths to be weighed and determined alreadie by the Lord. Si Scriptura habeat controversiam ex eadem Scriptura adhibitis ejus testibus terminâ—tur Aug. de doctr Chr. lib. 3. cap. 28. Papists Quest. 14 Question fourteenth We are still gaiâ—ing Proselyts from you but few turne off from us and become members of your Church Answere Your pelf and policie is greater Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 then ours hereby simple soules are ensnared Secondly Ye give indulgencies for looseness this catcheth prophaine ones who love to live at random but without some such carnall design or prejudice we hear not that any turn off from us Thirdly Have not sundrie left Rome in the integrity of their heart and closed
with naked persecuted truth in our Church as the Marques of Galeacia Mr. Smeton c. yea sundry have gone to Rome been converted by taking a distaste at their worship and way Fourthly Our run awayes runagads have to mourn before the Lord for their Apostacie seeing they cannot deny that the Ordinances in our Church have been by the Lords blessing instrumental to beget children to God This they must graunt unless they will say that all the reformed Church is unconverted which they have no confidence to averre Now how gross is it to spit in the face of her who did bear and foster them which I wish the Lord may lay to the consciences of such revolters But not to insist further I desire you in the fear of God to pause and consider well whether you are going to heaven or hell and by what rule you walk If the will of man or the revealed will of God have the power of your consciences or whether it be safer to take the scriptures way in which the Prophets and Apostles walked to heaven or the way of your own traditions and vaine inventions He who walketh according to the scripture rule peace and mercy shall be upon him and upon the Israell of God Reply In your last answer you say our Papists Reply pelf and policie is greater then yours both which I grant but glories in neither Yet if Ministers augmentations hold on they will shortly equal our pelf but not our Christian policit in employing it so well our glorious and goodly edifices of Churches Hospitals Monasteries dispersing and distributing their rents to pious uses But the thrusting down of Churches Hospitals Monasteries dispersing and dissipating their rents testifie your want of policy blind avarice mad passion Secondly You say we give indulgencies for looseness as if in Catholick times there had been greater looseness then since the Reformation Whereas the keeping of Lent and Fasting dayes were abolished Pennance and satisfaction for sin taken away Celibacie in Church men thought a crime Laicks allowed after divorcement to marry all good works thought impossible the Commandments thought impossible to be keeped and that men sin of necessity in their best actions which as it excuseth all wickedness and sin so it giveth way to all looseness and prophainness Thirdly You say many quit Rome in the integrity of their heart such as the Marquess of Galeacia and closed on their peril with naked truth in your Church To which I answer that all Hereticks and Schismaticks have quit Rome not in the integritie of their heart but in the blindness of their mind and that with their own peril eternal damnation closing with a very naked faith and Religion not well cloathed with the least colour of truth but not with naked faith or belief which Catholicks confidently and constantly assert what ever you say to the contrar And it is no where else to be found for they know there is but one faith and one GOD and one true Church Consequentlie united in the same faith in all which points as she was established by Christ and his Apostles hath continued since their time visible in her Pastours and People in all Ages holy and incorrupted in her Doctrine religious in her Sacraments and ceremonies powerful and glorious in her wonders and miracles conversion of Infidels in the which the holy Fathers have lived and all true Martyrs have died Which only all new upstarts and Sects do persecute and oppose as Protestants at this day under the pretence of Reformation and upon the same ground of wresting Scripture against the common consent of the Church and Fathers with them For as all divisions in Christianity have been from the Roman Catholick Church so all have turned both their armes and pennes chiefly against her but in vain she is builded on a rock against which the gates of hell shal not prevail against her And so who return from you to her are neither run-awayes nor run-agads as you call them but like the forlorn child or lost sheep return'd Whose example undoubtedly many more would follow if they would consider Faith without unity amongst Protestants a Church without a Head a Body without united Members a Law without a Judge a Temple without an Altar Religion without Sacrifice Divine service without Religious ceremonies Sacraments which do not sanctifie Doctrine without infallibility Belief without a ground Preachers without a call Commandments impossible to be keeped Exhortation to what is not in our power Reprobation without workes Reward without Merits Sin punished where there is no Free-will Scripture received or rejected upon the catalogue of the Jewes GODS word patched up by men Reformation without authority New-lights against old received veâ—iâ—ins the Privat-spirit against the whole Church single mens opinions against the unanimous consent of the Fathers in a word wavering Pastours unsetled Government unstable Faith In the post-script there be a parallel patched about our Reformations which being composed of the gall of bitterness without verity or reason deserveth no answer but that which Hezekiah commanded Is 36. 21. Duply You graunt that ye are rich and politick this is true there is much prophain Prote ∣ stants Duply 1 policie where Jesuited equivocation is mantained But tell me if this be like the Godly sinceritie and Gospell simplicitie which was the old Apostolick way and ground of their rejoicing 2. Cor. 1. 12. If ye exceed us in sumptuous buildings which politickly you mistake for the policie mentioned by me though your pelf be greater then ours we want not Hospitalls Bridges Temples according to our abilitie But what is that to the doctrine which is according to Godliness The Turks exceed you as farre that way as ye doe us And the Temple of Diana at Ephesus exceeded you and them also Secondly You deny that Poperie fostereth prophanness but it is too apparent and Duply 2. how can it be otherwise If indulgencies bought and sold like an horse in a market tend not ex natura operis in it self to make men loose and prophane let any sober man judge For thus may they reason shall I quite my lusts for a little money I know what will do the bussines and put me in favour with God Why should I pluck out my right eye and cut off my right hand when a little time in puâ—gatorie will do the turne and a soulemasse which I can have for the Legacie of a summe of money will free me thence But we with the scripture forbid men to deceive themselves for they who do such things shall not it herit the kingdom of heaven So with us nothing less will satisfie then Gospell repentance and the least ground of hope is not granted to those hereafter who turne not away hore from their iniquities How can this be denyed seeing your latest Casuists such as Escobar Busenbaius and Diana the Sicilian have purposly devised latitudes for rendring prophane men secure about Duells Sodomy and other acts of
uncleanness which would make chaste ears to â—ingle And that men who in hainously are not bound to repent imediatly as it is fully proved by Reverend Learned Mr. MENZIES in his Papismus Lucifugus pag. 158. to 169. And when it is defended that minus probabile may be chosen although it have no ground in scripture contrar to more probable grounds and the stream of Doctors doth not this open a door to make the may of Christianity broad whereas the scripture calleth it strait and narrow Thus ye gaine proselites And it is observable that manâ— loose livers in the land who are adversarieâ— to the power and puritie of Religion hate to be reformed do encline to Popery And to me it is not minus probabile that it is only upon this account We are not against fasting chastity mortification Nor do we say that men sin not willingly or that good workes are impossible yea we hold them necessar to salvation Only we deny that faln man can be justified by the workes of the law otherwise we needed not a Saviour not a Gospell-remedy It is your ordinar way to mistate questions and then intend a skirmish which is easie work this is a sinfull and shallow evasion Thirdly You fall out with bauling expressions which rational men cannot value much and scoâ—fe at these worthies who did take their lives in their hands and closed with persecuted truth neither for gaine nor for honor but for conscience sake Was not this a commendable duty If self denyall be not a chief ingredient in Christian performances I know not the Gospell You assert that it was blindness not integrity I averse it was integrity and not blindness Who art thou that judgest another mans servant remember thou shalt be judged You talk much concerning the authority and unity which is amongst you but some who were at Rome and have come not long ago from you to us againe tell what sort of integritie puritie and chastitie is amongst you So it is no wonder albeit many tongues and pennâ— be employed to pull down that whorish Babell which ye call Zion Fourthly You imply that none can be saved but such as are subject to the Pope Therefore our run-awayes must nor be apostats with you for they are Prodigals returned and lost sheep found When I pray you went they from you to us Were they not baptized in our Church and partakers of all ordinances with us till of late Then I pose you and them again whither ye damn all who are not Popish and judge them unconverted If they be Hereticks in your sense this must follow Yet you have nor the confidence to speak it directly And sure I am Scripture requireth not subjection to the Pope as an article of the Creed If without this â— man cannot be saved albeit he believe and live like the Gospel the Apostle Paul was no chosen Vessel which is contrar to Scripture there was no Pope in his dayes nor long after that Your Church hath been visible by bell book and candle fire faggot pomp policie Your Pastours are more for the fleece then the flock Ye are superstitiouâ— by addition substractioÌ„ multiplication without any warrand Your Ceremonies are partly Paganish partly Jewish and for the most Schismatick so not religious nor venerable Your miracles woÌ„ders are such that it is good for you to have them wrought in America and told in Europe Like are ye to him who cometh with lies and wonderâ— 2. Thess 2. 9. Your conscience can witness what Leger-demain is in these And it is our way to try miracles by the Scripture I wish Infidels were converted to the Christian faith and not to a faction By the Scripture noâ— by fopperies and military Compulsators Stephen the Apostles and some primitive Fathers were Martyrs but they died not in the Romish Faith as it is now mantained And how can your Church be called Catholick which is a particular one wherein be many dissenters It is not strange to us albeit ye indulge them who runne away and Apostatize from us but it is strange why they have done so and what hath sascinated them to burst all bonds and swallow on a sudden the whole bulk of Popery It requireth an Ostrich stomach to digest such iron Where in did Gospel-truths Gospel-worship or their mother and nurse weary them testifie against her if they can Fifthly You say we have Faith without unity then you grant us faith and our unity in fundamentals is more then your own A Church without a head We acknowledge no Pope head of our Church Christ is our head and the visible Government of the Church is Aristocratical not Monarchical the mystical Members of his Body are united in him so we are not a body without united members Neither want we a Judge in controversal matters It is known that many points of Christianity cannot be judged by râ—en because the Kingdom of Grace is within us and consisteth not in meat or drink but righteousness peace and joy in the holy Ghost Rom. 14. 17. Who will say that the hidden man in the heart can be cognosced by any external living judge on earth The spiritual man â—udgeth all things but he himself is judged of no man 1. Cor. 2. 15. The written word is the rule of this and other such cases For other matters we have Councils and Church Ruleâ—s appointed by the supream Judge who are bound to discern according to Scripture and all are appointed to obey them in the Lord so we have not a Law without a Judge The golden Altur is our Altar we have sacrifices of Prayer and Praises and one living sacrifice is better then many carcases that is reasonable service Rom. 12. 1. Then we have order and decencie and such positives as set forth the worship in a Gospel way without pâ—mpous observation therefore we lack not an Altar Sacrifices and Ceremonies in such manner as Gospel-work under the New Testament requireth Our Sacraments are instruments to seal and sanctifie our rule is infallible for it is Scripture the grounds of our faith are such as will not make us ashamed for we have his revealed will and word for it Therefore it is a calumny to say we have Sacraments which do not sanctifie Doctrine without infallibility and Belief without a ground If our Preachers had runne unsent the Lord had not sealed their Ministrie with such success Ier. 23. 32. It may be spoken without vanity to the praise of free-grace that there be many real sincere serious solid Christians in BRITTAIN Blessed be the Lord we go not without our CoÌ„verts who can speak with any adversary in the gate And they will and do bless our Ministry upon the brink of eternity which hath been the power of GOD to their Salvation So our Ministry is not without a call we say not that any divine command is in it self impossible to be keeped but that fallen man through his own fault is imperfect in obedience
Firmament we may see the singer of GOD so here †See Barron against Turnbul tract 9. p. 643. we may behold divine Majestie Heavenly efficacie the consent and harmonie of parts the fulfilling of Prophesies see August lib. 6. Confes cap. 5. Persuasisti mihi non qui crederent libros tuos quos tanta in omnibus fere gentibus authoritate fundasti sed qui non crederent esse culpandos nec audiendos esse si qui forte mihi dicerent unde scis illos libros unius veri Dei spiritu esse humano generi administratos id ipsum maxime credendum erat The Scripture it self then testifieth whose it is holy men of GOD did so speak and writ that ye may know the certainty of these things Luk 1. 4. and believe them Jo. 19. 35. this is taken from the very Scripture and not from any distinct Tradition from iâ— Beside all this we have miracles wonderful providences sealing this word the testimonie of adversaries Jews and Gentiles to the doctrine therein contained the testimonie of old and late writters to our whole Canon And seeing the Lord hath sealed it and it is called his Testament none should adde to it or alter any point contained therein This is expresly forbidden Deut. 4. 2. 12. 32. Pro. 3. 6. how grosly Papists make void the Testament of the Lord by new datives and in that are like the Pharisees Matth. 15. 3. 6. shal appear hereafter Answer fourth Although all books †The Papists reject some of these Apocriphal books from the Canon of Scripture aâ— Esdras the book of Baruch c. are not rejected by us upon this account only because the Iews did so but for many other good reasons for self-murder is commended in Razis there contrar to the 6. Command c. The authours crave pardon for that which is spoken amiss whereby it is acknowledged that they had not the spirit of infallibility in all ages exceptions were made against them as is well proved by our Divines S. Thomas and Nicodemus Gospels have approbation of none so need no refutation Now I referre it to any Reader whither this first reason be sufficiently refuted or if this reflecter understandeth Logick or himself who thus reasoneth The number of Scripture bâ—oks is controverted therefore that which on all hands betwixt PROTESTANTS and Papists is acknowledged to be Scripture is not the determiner of faith Who will not perceive here a mis-stated question and gross non-consequence Yet no greater not that concerning the Messias which deserveth no answer being so absurd and bordering with blasphemie The second Reason Why Scripture cannot Pa. Rea. 2 be the rule of faith is because PROTESTANTS believe many things whereof the Scripture maketh no mention at all as the keeping holy the Sunday for the Sabbath or Saturday the procession of the Holy Ghost from the Father and the Son the Trinity of Persons in God that there is one person although two natures in Christ for the Scripture maketh no more mention of Persons then of Papish-tran substantiation that Baptism of Hereticks is not to be reiterat against the Donatists that Ordination of lawful Ministers should not be reiterâ—t against Marcion that Baptism and the Lords Supper are Sacraments which are the very fundamentals of your Religion I answer to this that errour is broodie for ere it be confessed by some men they will Pro. An. 1 broach absurd Tenets and shake foundations which appeareth evidently here For this man deâ—yeth the Articles of our Creed to be grounded on Scripture which is most abominable to utter What is not the Trinity the Sacrament of Baptism and the Supper scriptural truths Let not this be heard in Gath. This giveth the Council of †Sess 7 Can. 1. de Sacr. in gen Trent the lie so the author is anathematized by them Let Papists read such as writ positive Divinity these points are aboundantly proved by them from Scripture Catechists will teach them to speak better and it they be not founded there why do your own writters prove them thence Secondly The mysterie of the Trinity is directly in Scripture 1. Io. 5. 7. there are An. 2. three which bear record in Heaven the Father the Word and the Spirit these three are one The Word Person is in Scripture Heb. 1. 3. we indeed make use of words in the doctrine of the Trinity which are not Scripture words but all the things are there otherwise our foundations would soon dissolve This is Augustins answer against the Arrians Contra Max. lib. 3. cap. 5. and Naz. Orat. 5. de Theol. yea your own Bellarmin lib. 2. de Christo cap 2. saith Quadam verba sunt utilia ad explicanda mysteria Scripturae quae licet in Scripturis non habeantur eorum tamen aequivalentia semina ibi habentur i. e. Some words are necessar for explaining the mysteries of Scripture which though they be not contained in the Scriptures yet their parallels and seeds are contained there This he proveth by instances cha 3. 4. 5 which I need not to translate So that the Tenets which we mantaine concerning the Trinity and the two Sacraments being Scripture truths it is gross to say we have no Scripture warrand for these seeing we may make use of words for explaining divine truths any may behold the weakness of this Reply The name Trinity and Sacrament is not in Scripture therefore the thing is not there As for the Sabbath we once prove from Scripture that Saturday is no Sabbath to us Col. 2. 16. 17. then from Scripture that one day of seven behoved to be observed by reason of the fourth Command which is Moral Secondly That the seventh in number â—â— Moral the seventh day in order only ceremonial Thirdly That the Lords-day by right succeedeth †See Palmer Candrey about the Sabbath as is here made out And what day can be more sit then that on which Christ Jesus arose and put an end to the work of Redemption Then our Lord came in amongst the midst of his Disciples Io. 20. 26. which Mâ—ldoâ—at on the place confesseth to be some proof to shew that the Lords-day hath its origen from the will of Christ Acts 20 7. The Disciples conveened to the worship and the breaking of bread that day and 1. Cor. 16 they had their collections that day Hierom contra Vigilantium sayeth that per unaâ— Sabbati is understood the Lords-day And Rev. 1. 10. There is express mention of the Lords day on which place Ribera the Iesuit remarketh that in the Apostles times the solemnity of the Sabbath was changed to the Lords-day and consecrated by the Lords Resurrection Esthius on Gal. 4. v. 10. refuteth you fully by saying Diei Dominicae observationem Apostolicam esse constat ex Scriptura i. e. It is clear from Scripture that the Apostles observed the Lords day How then can you say that we have no Scripture for it Thirdly That the holy
Ghost proceedeth from the Father and the Son is clear in Scripture Io. 14. 16. 17. Ioh. 15. 26. Io. 16. 7. Gal. 4. 6. Fourthly That there be two Natures in Christ is clear Io. 1. 14. The Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us And Augustin who refuteth Rebaptization mantained by Donatists maketh no use of unwritten Traditions against that errour but of that Scripture Eph. 4. 5. One Lord one Faith one Baptism for he sayeth reâ—urrantus ad fontem viz. Scripturas let us return to the Scriptures which are the fountain then citeh that text mentioned Tom. 7. lib. 5. cap. 26. and Ordination is expressed in that Tense which by vertue of the word excludeth Reiteration It being a matter of Order if it be once done according to the rule 1. Tim. 4. 14. it is enough neither should this be debated here for all that we assert is that all points necessar to salvation are comprehended in Scripture either expresly or cosequentially by general or particular precepts Perinde sunt ea quae ex Scriptuâ—is Colliguntur atque ea quae scribuntur saith Nazianzen †Naz. de Theol. orat 5. i. e. These things which by necessary consequence are deduced from Scripture are of the same force with these which are written in it Let the Reader judge whither Popery be a safe way which buildeth our main foundations upon humane testimonie and derogats so much from the Scriptures of GOD. Yea ere they will give them their due rather will they strengthen Anti-Trinitarians Arrians Anti-Sacramentarians Anti-Sabbatarians Donatists and Separatists The Lord grant repentance to such who leaving the truth have a massed a body of errors Thirdly For that amongst many Versions Pa. Red. 3 yea and corruptions of Scripture which all do acknowledge and each sect imputeth to its adversaries it seemeth very hard to discern authentick Scripture many of the originals being lost and the extract comming to the hands of very few and few understand the Hebrew and Greek tongues wherein they are written and yet of this first of all we must be understood and assured if we will not waver in matters of fâ—â—th Answer first This is a digression to another Pro. An. 1 question concerning the Version for I would ask if there be any right Version at all this will not be denyed for the old Latine translation is acknowledged by you then it is the rule of faith and no humane testimony What doth this arguing prove against the point there be some corrupted Versions Ergo the Original rightly translated must not determine my faith some men are evil cloathed therefore a man should not be well cloathed against the cold there is no consequence there Further this objection maketh the word of God useles to men Now is it like that all should be commanded to go to the Law and Testimony to search the Scriptures if they could not be had by any Yea this Objection spoileth Providence of its rent of praise which hath appeared so visibly in the preservation of the Scriptures And we bless his Name for it that we have the Originals in Hebrew and Greek and so pure a translaon that if any will compare them they wil find great faithfulnes and skill in the translators But to answer this impertinent Objection An. 2. more fully we say that the Version is a Commentary be way of interpretation and we make neither the translatioÌ„ of the 70. nor of the vulgar Latine authentick but wheÌ„ we find errours in either we go ad judicem incorâ—uptum hoc est primaevam linguam to the uncorrupted Judge that is the first language so much speaketh your Acosta lib. 2. cap. 10. and in this rightly But yee Romanists have preferred the vulgar Latine to the Hebrew and Greek whereas it is a corrupt translation as some of your own testifie and corrupteth the doctrine witness that one text for many Gen. 3. 15. Ipsa conteret caput tuum She shal break thy head which is contrar to the Hebrew hu to the 70 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and putteth the Virgin Mary for Christ so overturneth a foundation Pagâ—â—n in his Preface to the Hebrew Grammar saith Optarem ut ostenderent mihi Germanam translationem quae enim pâ—ssim legitur non est Hieronymi incorrupta translatio i. e. I wish they would shew me the Genuin translation for that which is coÌ„monly received is not Hieroms pure translation and Sixtus Senensis Bib. lib. 8. sub finem sayeth Multa ibi sunt parum accommodate versa There are many things in it not fitly rendered so that our Version will be found as good as any And we are not hindered to run to the fountains in case of doubting we make use of these streams as helps and the Version is an humane instrument leading us to the well-head of the Original tongues Dei verbum non est linguased doctrina The word of GOD is not the language but the doctrine saith Rivet in his Isag cap. 1. and we need Grammar more then Tradition for understanding thereof Reason fourth Many cannot read Scripture and more as yet do not understand it the Pa. Rea. 4 Scripture then or written word cannot be the Rule of Faith to these poor ignorants but their Churches or Pastors authority And so it seemeth the Scripture cannot be the rule of faith to all persons or in all points or of any point contained in it self untill I be first assured of some infallible rule that this translation I rely upon is conform to the original in all points and this Bible I am reading is the authentick word of God Answer First This maketh nothing against Pro. An. 1 our assertion wherein it is only said that the Scripture is the rule of faith to a right discerner which is granted by the Arguer in the next reason It is Regula regulativa to all apt and meet to decide all controversies if men have ears to hear what the Spirit saith to the Churches if it be not Regula regulans to some who are ignorant and unstable Vitium ost in Organo the fault is in the Organ It is ill argued to say the Sun shineth not because blind men see it not Secondly They who cannot read the Scriptures An. 2. can hear them read and it is more easie for dark ignorant ones to hear the word read and explained in their own language then to travel from Scotland to Rome to hear the sentence of the Pope for they could not understand the language in which it is delivered they cannot travel through their decretals and acts They know not if it be a lawful Pope who pronounceth the sentence And by their Confessours here they may be and are deceived Thirdly It is the priviledge and promise An. 3. of God to open the heart to enlighten the eyes by the word read and preached but no where hath the word of man this prerogative See Is 32. 3. 4. and Is 35. 5. 6. 7. 8. These are Gospel
prophecies The Roman Trash may well make seeing men blind but will never make blind men see the right way Fourthly We do not deny ministeriall An. 4. helps to unlettered people for such are commanded Heb. 13. 7. and 17. provided alwayes their faith be resolved into the word of God at least interpretative virtualiter What ever means be used this milk of the Word is the authentick instrument which begetteth faith and it must be received not as the word of man albeit the treasure be in earthen vessels and the milk in a wooden pape The difference of assent betwixt the learned and the unlearned is only accidental and modal the one being more express then the other we Catechise and instruct the ignorant and require them to hear the Church and follow their guides so far as they follow Christ 1. Cor. 11. 1. we hold forth coâ—munia fidei motiva interna 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 inward testimonies the common motives of faith reasons and testimonies of old and late and what ever may help their edification but we dare not lead them from the Scripture to men neither will the interpretation of the Scripture permit us to admit of an other determiner And it may be wel enough known by them who understand these languages that these Greek and Hebrew words do thus signifie as they are translated without the help of an infallible decree of Pope or Council thereanent Without this also GODS word can discover it self to be from GOD as hath been shewed already Reason 5. Reading of the Scripture with the privat spirit and taking it up as every one Pa. Rea. 5 thinketh maketh all the controversies in Christendom daily multiplying both Heresies and sects Luther no sooner swerved from the Church and denyed her authority but as soon he broached this principle That every man might take the Bible follow that interpretation which after due diligence used he thought best whereupon preseÌ„tly did spring up an incredible number of different sects Antimonâ—ans Osiandrians Majorists Synergists c. Now hear what Luther himself said of Calvins heresie Tom. 7. fol. 380. I scarce ever read saith he of a more deformed heresie which presently in the beginning was divided into such variety of sects as so many Toads and such disagreement of opinions not one like to another You see then how the word cannot be the determiner of faith which all these sects take with you for their rule yet alone will never agree â—hem As for that you say the scripture hath Divine authority Heavenly majestie and maketh Spiritual impressions on the soul all this I grant if once a man know or believe it to be the word of GOD. Answer First All this is answered to the fourth or fifth question and should not be Pro. An. 1 brought in here yet passing the digression and informality which I hope the Reader cannot impute to me the Defender I answer to the 5. Reason the Scriptures in the Primitive Church were published â—o all this your own Azâ—â—iâ—s confesseth Iust mor. p. 1. lib 8. c. 26. â—he Scriptures in the Primitive Church were to be published throughout all Nations and therefore made common in the most famouâ— languages In Hierom and Chrysostoms dayes the ley people were exercised in reading the Scriptures Espencaeus saith Comment on Tit. 3. 2. it is manifest by the Apostles doctrine Col. 3. 16. and by the practise of the Church that the publies use of reading the scriptures was then permitted to the people The Council of Nice decreed saith Agrippa that no Chriâ—tian shoulâ—â—e without a Bible Augustin alloweth de Doct. Christi the use of scriptures to all for he saith they are not so hard but every one by his use making of them may attain to so much knowledge of them as may further him in his salvation Chrysost hom 3. de Lizaro exhorts all men and women yea Tradsmen to get Bibles Now I pray you to what purpose if they dare not search for the sense of them Secondly It is denyed that when privat Pro. An. 2 men search the Scriptures this is an act of a privat spirit †It may be privat respectupersonae which is publick rationâ— modi medii è contra for such may pray and have the spirit of grace and supplication poured forth on them according to the promise Zach. 12. 10. and none call that a privat spirit so they may interpret Scripture by Scripture and have the gift of it Hear your own Gerson primâ— part de ex doct Si aliquis non authorizatus sit excellenter in sacra scriptura eruditus plus credendum est ejus assertioni quam Papae declarationi i. e. If any not ordained be well instructed in the holy Scriptures his assertion is more to be believed then the Popes declaration Secondly Our Divines distinguish well three sorts of interpreters the first is extraordinar and miraculous 1. Cor. 12. 30. The second is ordinar and ministerial 1. Cor. 14. 32. The spirits of the Prophets are subject to the Prophets The third is of privat persons who are commanded to â—ry the spirits and are commended for so â—â—ing Aâ—t 8. 28. 29. Aâ—t 17. 11. The first kynd of interpretation is gone the two next are in use as yet but the one is subservient to the other Thirdly â—he different sects that lay claim to Scripture cannot deprive us of the priviledge to search it and make use of it Will any man approve this argument Meat and drink is abused by some therefore none should eat or drink If the matter be indifferent and subject to abuse then we are to restrain our selves of liberty in the use of that in different thing Vâ—tandum estlicituÌ„ non necessâ—riuÌ„ propter vicinitatem illiâ—â—ti Aug. de câ—v Dei lib. 15. But when it is necessar necessitate precepti medii by necessity of precept and mean who can forbid the use of a necessar mean Now it is most necessar to improve the Scriptures by reading understanding application meditation and blessed is he who doth so day and night sitting or standing Deâ—t 6. 6. It is absurd to say â—lbeit Luther and Calvin did differ in some points that he fathered the sects of Germany on Calvin who was as free of Munster malady as the man unborn and was malleus haereticorum as his learned writtings testifie aboundantly In that place cited he speaketh of the swarms of sects which were indeed monstrous like at that time but never imputed it to the use making of Scripture for then he would not have understood himself nor could he blame Calvin for it upon that account seeing it was his own tenet Now Reader stay and impartially consider the weaknes and impertinency of these 5 reasons why our faith should not be resolved into the Scriptures and determined by them For the sume of all is thus concluded The word of GOD is not wel understood by some is evil translated by others and
seem to me against our oath of supremacie not to acknowledge any other judge in matters of controversie then scripture Seeing there his Majestie is said to be and we sworn to acknowledge him supream judge in all cases as well Civil as Eclesiastick and I pray God that Preachers and Ministers to whom only you ascribe the power of herauldry had not taken on the coat of arms these years bygon to publish any other sentence then that which did proceed from the mouth of that supream judge Answer first The Scripture we call a rule Pro. An. because it maketh the man of GOD perfect 2. Tim. 3. 16. as a rule doth a line and the Duply 1. doctrine therein is termed a judge Metonymically properly a judge is a person because it is the voice of a supreame judge who is our law-giver This we speak with the Scripture Io. 12. 48. Io. 7. 51. and Heb. 4. 13. It is the descerner of the thoughts of the heart Where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is given to it You grant here that it is our law book Ergo Metonymically our judge and determiner it must be for we appeal to the law for judgement To this the Apostle Paul appealeth Act. 26. 22. Then there be many cases incident to a Christian in his spiritual exercise which none on earth can judge The spiritual one is judged of no mam 1. Cor. 2. 15. yet this will discern the thoughts of his heart The divine doctrine now written is the only impartial infallible determiner he who heareth not Moses the Prophets and the Apostles will not hear one risen from the dead Conscience is a rule Rom. 2. 14. a witness Rom. 2. 15. and a judge 1. Io. 3. 20. 21. It is to be considered that there is a difference betwixt humane Courts and this work the one concerneth temporals wherein we may be ruled by reason but here in matters of salvation we must have an infallible rule by revelation albeit in humane Courts the rule the witness and the judge are different for guarding against corruption to which fallen man is subject yet in foro divino in the court of GOD one may be witness judge rule accuser such is the scripture The Spirit of GOD speaketh there Is it not the law the testimony the canon or rule Gal. 6. 16. is it not a witnesser a warner Ps 19. 11. doth it not speak to men Rom. 9. 17. and will it not judge us hereafter The word which I speak to you will judge you in the last day Io. 12. 48. if then why now is it not our judge Further the judgement of discretion is but a discretive faculty no proper bench and liker a watch then a judge for it hath no authority over others the Ministerial authority is subordinâ—t and more like the office of a steward nor of a proper judge 2. Cor. 1. 24. Only the written word is the determiner and the Lord speaking there is absolute supreame judge from whom there is no appealing Answer second If the second be as good as the first it is well for notwithstanding of all Pro. An. 2 your weapon-shews you yeeld in the end what I said that we should go to the law and testimony with all our cases and that the scripture to any believer and right discerner hath divine authority Heavenly majestie and maketh spiritual impressions on the soul If it have divine authority is it not judge was there any more asserted in the first answer we hold the same similitude the King is head of Council and Session the law ratified by King and Parliament is the rule and the officers of Council and Session are administrators So our Lord Jesus is the head of his Church the written Word is the law and the Ministers of the Gospel are administrators by whom the people are directed and instructed But if the officers go contrar to the will of the King and his law the subjects may appeal from their administration to the acts of Parliament and hear the Kings pleasure when subjects wrong their inferiours and neighbours See Ps 85. 8. Hear what the Lord will say and who hath ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit sayeth to the Churches Answer third Ministers of the Gospel are called Messengers Rev. 2. 2. Cor. 8. 23. So Pro. An. 3 were they termed under the law Mal. 2. 7. and doth not the Greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 oft used for Preacher in the N. T. signify a cryer or herauld Why then do you scoff at Scripture As for your prayer it seemeth you pray all by the book and here you are beside it present or future things are the object of prayer but that factum should be infectum to pray that a thing done should be undone is an unwarrantable petition what hath been wrong in us heretofore should be regrated what is or hath been right is the object of praise but your prayer is unwarrantable and impossible Answer fourth Albeit our Soveraign Lord Pro. An. 4 the Kings Majestie be supream magistrat according to the Scripture 1. Pet. 2. 13. and ex officio a nursing father to the Church Is 49. 23. to whom every man civil or Ecclesiastick doth owe subjection Rom. 13. 1. Yet it will not follow that the word of GOD is not the supream determiner of all controversies in Religion Whatsoever primitive Fathers gave to Constantine the great Theodosius elder and younger c. that we give to our Soveraign Lord the King And there be no Church on earth which by their confessions of faith honour the Magistrat more then we Yet notwithstanding of this prerogative asserted and mantained against Papists by our †Viz. Bp. Bilson de Subject Usher Dr. Strang. Divines Our Soveraigne Lord the Kings Majestie will not deny that the scripture is the determiner of all the Articles of our faith seeing he mantaineth the 39. Articles of the Church of England whereof this is one Answer fifth How cometh it to pass that Pro. An. 5 you own the oath of supremacie By calling it ours seeing the main scop of that oath was to renounce the Pope his jurisdiction in the Kings dominions you must either have a dispensation for this that you here subscribe a renunciation of the Popes supremacie or else you will be declared apostar at Rome And no Papist keeping his principles can averre that wich is here set down under your hand Question third If the Scripture be judge why be there so many controversies undecyded Pa. Qu. Answer The perverseness of men is to blame for this Unstable unlearned ones wrest the Scripture to their own perdition Pro. An. 2. Pet. 3. 16. and make difficulties where there be none As much as containeth the way to salvation is plain in Scripture so that he who runneth may read and learn Reply In your third answer you please me Pap. Reply well and it confirmeth all I have said but refuteth your former answer to the full For if the
pretended right so in the matter of doctrine an invisible Church and no Church is the same For if I cannot see nor know the Elect as being invisible to the eye of man so I cannot know that the Church composed of them speaketh to me or that this Doctrine I hear of any man is infallible more then that he is one of the Elect. Answer I am weary transseribing a number Protest Duply of wordâ— without weight that is a compleet rapsodie and no return to the former question If such digressions were heard in the School the Writter behoved to be sore censured The question was how the Scripture could be the square Seeing all agree not about the number of the books some cast at the Epistle of James as the Lutherans And the answer I gave was that although some Lutherans differre from us about the authority of that epistle yet we both agree here that uncontroverted scripture is the determiner And for the numerick question it was sufficiently answered in the second answer to the first querie so we needed not this tauâ—oligie to make the Reader nauseat If I had to do with a Lutheran then I could prove the divine authority of that Epistle but you do not deny it therefore to what purpose should I insist on that subject against you Mr. Hooker whom you cite maketh nothing against us as is alledged for that which he sayes is first that the light of reason rightly managed is a requâ—sit mean for the knowledge of scripture books and what sayeth that against us seeing we suppose the Readers of Scripture to be â—ational men that reason in its own line may be helpful to them for understanding scripture Secondly Mr. Hooker directly disclaimeth your traditions page 86. and affirmeth that they who betake themselves to that testimonie as divine have not the truth but are in an errour Thus he condemneth you as erronious so it had been your advantage to have spared this tradition neither was it needful to tell us that the Manichees denyed Moses and the Jews the New Testament We have to do with Papists who hold all the books of the Old and New Testament which we hold for Canonick At lest what some others make disputable as Melchior Canus telleth us you put it out of dispute so you are not in bona fide to reason about their number with us seeing ye question none which we mantaine albeit we justly call in question Apocryphal writtings which ye put into the Canon Is it not safer to regulate our faith by these uncontroverted Scriptures then by the dictats of mutable self-contradicting Popes When Church Rulers have been fully corrupted Believers have continued orthodoxe as in the time of the Arrian persecution The Fathers who lived the first 300. year believed without either Pope or General Council as propounders of their faith For then there was no such pretending to infallible supremacy They had no infallible testimony from the Church they acknowledged not her testimony to be such And for ought I can learn theâ—e be no testimony of your Church nor statute enacting her testimony to be infallible If so it is nor according to you de fide however ye make a great noise amongst people with it And if all the faith you have depend upon the testimony of the present Church which is your doctrine your faith is not one with Abrahams faith for the word of God did beget his faith but it is the testimony statute of the Trent Council that begettâ—th yours and I would gladly hear from you whither there was universal consent there or not Such clashing and pocket orders as the author of that history telleth to the world will not permit you to say without a blush that the Council was unanimous and Gospel-like in their way Therefore unless it be against us all their otheracts are made up of ambiguous stuffe like the Delphian responses this is purposely coÌ„trived to cover debates with general termes And if their testimony make the word of GOD Scripture to me living under Popery what rule had they for their faith who made these conclusions Their own testimony could not be the cause of their own belief if you say that the testimonie of the ancient Church was their rule then ye go contrar to your own Doctors who declare that the present Church of Rome is above all former councils and their authority dependeth on her testimony See Bell. lib. de Eccl. cap. 10. Valentia Tom. 3. disp 1. quest 1. Further that the supream power of judging is not in the Council but in the Pope that he is above a general Council that he cannot be subject to it See Bell. lib. 2. de Concil cap. 17. Valentia tom 3. disp 1. Suarez disp 5. de fide and your own Vives in his comment on Augustins 20. book de civit Dei cap. 26. telleth us how little ye make of Councils or of the ancient Church when they militat against you Illa demum videntur iis Concilia quo in rem suam faeiunt reliqua non pluris estimantur quam commenta mulierum in textrina aut thermis i. e. These appear to be Councils to them which make for them the rest are no more esteemed by them then the sables of old women in the weavers shop or sloves Brisâ—â—erius writting against Collag a Jansenist as he is cited by learned Dalleus †See Dâ—lleus de usu Patrum saith Councils are literae mortuae nisi animentur à praesenti Ecclesia i. e. They are dead letters if they be not animated by the present Church This appeareth to be true from experience for ye agree not with the primitive either in doctrine worship or government The ancients thought that Images should not be in the Church See Epiph. epist ad Iohannem Hierosolymitanum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 cum vidissem Imaginem penderâ— in Ecclesia contra authoritatem Scripturae i. e. When I saw an Image hang in the Church contrar to the authority of Scripture how grieved was I. But the Council of Trent appointed them to be had in houses and Churches and that debitus honor reverentia Sess 25. eis impertiatur i. e. Due honor and worship be given to them The Fathers thought that the Virgin Marie was conceived in sin so saith Ambrose Augustin Chrysostom as Melchior Canus de loc Theol. lib. 7. telleth The Council of Trent Sess 5. will not conclude heâ— under Original sin The Fathers excluded Tobias Judith Wisdom Ecclesiasticus and both the books of the Maccabees out of the canon of Scripture So did Hierom in his prologue ad libros Solomonis Epiph. lib. de Pond mens cap. 2. pag. 162. Gregorie Nazianzen câ—rm 3. Athanasius epist fest But the Council of Trent anathematizeth them who exclude these books out of the Canon Sess 4 Baptism was delayed till Pasch and Pentecost in the primitive Church it is not so with you The 4. Council of Carthage did forbide women
to baptize Canon 100. ye allow it The Sacrament was administred in the primitive Church to all present and they who did not partake were appointed to remove Ite missa est exite foras qui non vultis accipere Sacramentum i. e. Go it is closed go forth ye that will not receive the Sacrament Now the words are muttered and administred before all They took with their hand and the bread was broken of old Now it is not for ye make whole wasers and put them into their mouth For fourthteen hundred years the Church appointed the Sacrament to be administred by bread and wine to the people all Christians of whatever judgement except Papists do so communicat as yet Petau de poenit pub lib. 2. sheweth that it cannot be denyed nisi ab homine insigniter supra omnem modum vel impudenti vel imperito i. e. Except by a man remarkably and above all measure either impudent or unskilful that this was the primitive practise yet the Council of Constance hoc non obstante and the Council of Trent decree the contrar The primitive Church heard nothing of the Popes universal supremacie or infallibility which now by you iâ— made Summa rei See Cyprian ep 55. â—â— Cornelius Bishop of Rome and how he stileth him fâ—ater c. and he saith that they were formerly chosen to officiat Non sine consensu plebis not without the Popes consent ep 68. Ipsa plebs habet potestatem c. Is not this far from your imperious pompous way of Monarchy how then can you so boldly averre that ye have the unanimous consent of Councills and fathers for you when indeed ye do not regard them so much as we Hear your own Cornelius Mus †See Dâ—lleus ubi supra ep Biâ—ont in ep ad Rom. cap 14. Ego ut ingenue fâ—teâ—r plus uni summo pontisici crederem in his quae fidei misteria tangunt quam mâ—lle Hieronymis Augustinis Gregoriis Credo enim scio quod summus Pontifex in his quae fidei sunt errare non potest quia auctoritas determinandi quae ad fidem spectant in Pontisice residet i. e. That I may ingenuously confesse I would give more credit to one Pope in tâ—e things which belong to the misteries of truth then to a thousand such as Augustin Jerom or Gregory For I know certainly that the Pope cannot erre in these things that belong to faith because the authority of determining matters of saith resideth in the Pope yet ignorant people are made to believe that Papists have the consent and practise of the primitive Church along with them and Melchior Canus lâ—c Theol. lib. 7. cap. 3. num 10. Sequi majores nostros per omnia in illorum vestigiis pedes nostros figere ut pueri faciunt per lusum nihil aliud est quam ingenia nostra dâ—mnare judicio nos privare nostro facultate inquirendae veritatis i. e. to follow our ancestors in all things and to â—race their footsteps and fixe in them as children use to do in play is no other thing but to condemn our own wit and to deprive our selves of our own judgement and faculty of searching the truth Salmeron in cap. 5. epist ad Rom. disp 5. asserteth quo juniores eo perspicaciores sunt doctores and citeth Exod. 23. follow not the multitude viz. of ancients This is sufficient to prove that as the Papists are jealous of Scripture so are they of the Primitive Church her consent But it is alleadged that ye have the word of God for your warrand Matth. 16. 18. Matth. 18. 18. 1. Tim. 3. 15. To this I answere that the first Text is meaned of the collective body of the Church which fall not away this is clear from the context for it is the Church builded on that confession mentioned by the Apostles and an house so builded cannot fall because it is builded on a rock Matth. 7. 25. Yet it will not follow that there be no drops in it for particular beleevers cannot totally and finally fall away but that they are infallible who can say see Iohn 10. 28. and comyare it with 1. Cor. 13. 9. Iames 3. 2. beside your own writters interpret it so see Melchior Canus lib. 5. de loc Theol. cap. 5. and Panormitan on the place The second Text Mat. 18. is to be understood of a particular Church which you grant is not infallible so Chrysostom interpreteth the place and it is further clear from the Connexion for it is the Church to which appeals should be made in prima instantia this undoubtedly is a particular Church But admitting that it is meaned of the universal church your Pope nor your Church is not it The third Text 1. Tim. 3. 15. holdeth forth no more then what is granted in the answer to the fourth question or if you please to take learned Cameron his exposition who knitteth these words with the 16. verse you may do well But what ever be the priviledges of the true Gospel Church which is the Bride of Jesus Christ Rome hath forefaulted all these and is but a leprous part of the universal Church you grant that the church of Rome is but a particular church Why plead you then for the whole priviledges of the universal Church Is not this absurd arrogance Nor doth Calvin Hospinian Luther or White speak absolutly as ye alleadge but assert that the generality for a time was leavened by Popery which is truth But what then followeth That the mysterie of iniquity did arise by degrees and over-runne all for the most we grant so did the Arrian heresie therefore was not Athauasius and such as adbered to the truth right in their way The whole world in the Apostles time did ly in wickedness 1. Iohn 5. 19. Therefore were they not Sons of truth who endeavoured a Gospel reformation Your last hold is tradition and you say we are commanded to hold them 2. Thes 2. 15. for this you cite Aug. Cyprian St. Dennis Epiphanius To this I answer we are not against Apostolick traditions nor Church history in matters of fact We make use of traditions there mentioned But for your Legends we deny that they are such and disclaim them Have you Sir learned Logick Why do you argument so a genere ad speciem affirmative Is this a good argument Est annual ergo est homo he is a living creature therefore he is a man Can this be better there were traditions delivered to the Church of Thessalonica ergo yours are these Credat Judaeus Appella Secondly If there were unwritten traditions why do you dare to writ these things which the Apostles would not writ Thirdly Will that argue the Scripture of imperfection You may as well argue the Minister writteth a book the summe of which he hath preached to people Ergo his book is imperfect You have then to prove for your end that these traditions mentioned 2. Thess 2. 15. were
about matters of faith Secondly If so they be no where written in Scripture Thirdly That if they be not written they be the same which ye deliver to the people and by what authority ye press and writ them But to take this text wholly from your mis-interpretation hear Theodoret who saith that the Apostle spake not of diverse doctrines but of the same diversely delivered For first he preached to the Thessalonians and then did writ the substance of it But as where ever ye find fire in the Scripture ye make it Purgatory so where ye find tradition ye make it pari ratione yours Will ye listen to Bell. lib. 4. de verbo Dei cap. 10. and he will put all out of doubt for he granteth that all in substance were written by the Apostles which they preached to the people or were necessar to salvation Cyprian in his epist ad Pompeium admitteth not any traditions but such as may be perceived to be in the Evangels in the Epistles or Acts of the holy Apostles Therefore it is a perfect rule to all discerners say I and no more was at first asserted Your Maxime Idem est non esse non apparere holdeth in law but not in divinity For the soul is not visible yet who can deny the being of it What is more in the Reply I judge not worthy the noticeing and I am forced to make digression because of an impertinent return Is it not strange that when I called men mutable creatures and at their best state vanitie subject to clashing contradiction and that the written Word is the only infallible rule for direction that upon this tradition universal consent should be so prolixely commented on without any connexion They who follow this reflecter must resolve to deviat from tho high way Question seventh Your Church which ye Papists Quest. 7 call reformed is but of yesterday where was it before Luther Answer It is as old in its doctrinals as Prote ∣ stants Answer the Scripture therefore not of yesterday See what societie from the beginning professed the doctrine mantained there that was out Church The Romans Corinthians Ephesians Philippians Thessalonians as taught by the Apostle Paul are our Church of old so it is not new Secondly In all ages there have been and are eminent professours of that doctrine which we mantaine as is abundantly proved by Flaccus Illyricus in his Catalogue Testium veritatis and learned Dr. Usher in successione Ecclesiae reform which testimonies no Popish shaveling of what ever ordour yet could answer Thirdly where was the church of Rome as now constituted before the council of Trent Nay more was the Popes supremacy and infallibility heard of the 600 year after Christ Is not all Popish faith as such resolved into a lie viz. the infallibility of the Pope or Council which though errand untruths are the key of the Popish Religion Fourthly All the positives of the reformed Religion were mantained substantially in the Primitive church the first 300. years I speake not of changeable circumstances nor integrals but essentials and the negatives could not be there because the controversies were not then started But ye Papists have amassed a body of humane inventions gross errours contrare to scripture obtruding them under Anathema to be the established doctrine of the Church And because we of the reformed Profession will not own these and call that which is new old ye excommunicat us as Hereticks Reply In your seventh Answere you say Papists Reply your doctrine is as old as scripture and your Church as the Apostles and this is common to you with all sectaries to claime the scripture and the Church in the time of the Apostles And like to that answer of the common people we are all come of Adam and Eve But I shall let you presently see how contrar your doctrine is to that scripture and how unlike your Church is to that of the Apostles the first 300 year In the second part ye pretend that Illyricus and Doctor Usher have sufficiently shewed that there have been eminent men of your Profession in all ages and that without a Reply of any Popish shaveling of whatever ordour But Sir I am sorrie that you who are a Nazarian and not a shaveling shoule be so ill versed in books of controversie as not to have seen so many Catholick writters who demonstrat clearly that of all these eminent men before Calvin you pretend to be yours there is not one hath holden all the same tenets with you and no more For it is enough for you that they dissent from the Church of Rome and sling at the Popes authority what ever tenets they hold in matters of belief to call them yours Which hath made Dr. Vane Chaplain to our late King judiciously compare them to Sampsons foxes which were all bound together by the tails although their heads went diverse wayes So that when you call the Luthereans Valdenses Albigenses Hussites Catharists Wicklessians Graecians Egyptians yours you may as well call the Turks and Tartars yours if we trust all records which speake of their tenets And as for the Fathers hear if they were yours in the opinion of the most learnea Protestants Dudithius apud Bezam ep 1. If that be true which Papists say the Fathers with mutual consent are altogether on their side Pet. Martyr 2. de verbo col 1539. as long as we stand to Councils and fathers we shal alwayes remain in the same errours And fully confesseth that Hierom Ambrose and Augustin held the invocation of Saints Chemnitius in ex concil trid art 3. pag. 100. did not disput but avouch that most of the Fathers said the souls of the Martyrs heard the petition of those that prayed to them they went to monuments and invocated Martyrs by name Whitgift in his defence pag. 473. all the Bishops and writters of the Greek and Latine Church too who no doubt were the Fathers for the most part were spotted with the doctrine of Free-will Merit Invocation of Saints Judge then Sir if they were pure In the third part you ask where was the Church of Rome before the council of Trent I answer you even where she is now except in Jappony India China and some parts of America where by their Christian labours and by the blessing of GOD she hath been established since Neither can you instance that she is not constantly the same in all points Nay more say you was the Popes infallible universal supremacie heard of the first 600. years Where it seems you must be very deaf who hear not the voice of 1200. Fathers speaking only in the four first general Councils He who holdeth the See of Rome is chief and head of all Patriarchs saith right seeing he is the first as Peter to whom all power is given over all Christian Princes and all their people and who ever contradicteth this is excommunicated Can. 29. Concil Nicaeni anno 325. Where 316 Bishops were conveened Secondly
obstinatly deny what they so clearly testifie but to consider and reflect on the Catholick verities there delivered as that Christ was truely the Son of GOD. Answer If my Answer be weak it is the more easily refuted But how can a Scripture Prote ∣ stants Answer argument be weak except it be misapplyed which you do not alleage here I had almost forgotten the reason which is this that all Scripture is like Aesops fables to you unless it be sensed and animated by your Church Hinc illae lachrymae Then you say I am confused in the met od I beginne with the Scripture then I go to the woâ—ship c. Is there any thing jumbled here I know no rule tendered by Methodists for sorting Scripture citations if they be pertiuently cited And whither you speak truth in â—athering contradictions upon me it will afterward appear when I consider your anâ—weâ—s to these 20. texts of Scripture and compare them with your former Replyes it putteth me in mind of our Sea fouls which can flee only above water and slutter on the land So you mount up with humane traditions but can scarcely slutter when you mention Scripture it is not your Element this appeareth by your first Reply and the rest are no better For once you deny that the people I said you call them Laicks not that we deny a distinction betwixt Pastours and people as you would insinuat But to note your vaine appropriating the name of Clergie or the Lords heritage to your Priests as if the people of GOD were not a part thereof contrary to 1. Pet. 5. 3. and as if you had a coÌ„manding power over them For the arrogancy of your Roman Clergie Jerome called them Senatum Pharisaeâ—um the Senate of the Pharisees I say the people are forbidden to read the Scripture by you And that some in SCOTLAND of your way are licensed to read them if this were true why is it a ground of inquisition abroad to have a Bible by them and made a ground of perâ—ecution here in the time of reformation if there be no countermand why is it held a transgression Secondly The granting of a licence to some implyeth an inhibition and ye are wiâ—ty in licensing some few to read it here and none in Italy or Spain For there be no hazard to the Popedom here which might be there if they were not so muzled Next you say the wâ—rd Iohn 5. 39. is not in the imperative but indicative mood for that you cite Cyril and Beza Gâ—ving noâ— granting that it is so it maketh still against your practise Fot they searched the Scriptures with his approbation and our Lord referreth the people to them as the rule of their direction for knowing him which ye refuse to do for ye must have another infallible judge to bear testimonie of him Thirdly You desire people not to shuffle but search the Scriptures I am glad to hear you speak so you yeeld the cause we seek no more Blessed be the Lord GOD of truth Magna est vis veritatis and blessed is the man who meditate in the Law of GOD day and night For your application of the place it is selfish and the similitude halteth on more leggs then one The second Scripture is that 1. Cor. 14. Protestants 2. Inst § 2. 14. which forbiddeth your Latine service If I pray in an unknown tongue my understanding is unfruitful c. How shal one who occupieth the room of the unlearned say amen verse 16. Reply You reply that the word unknown Papists Reply is not in the Original but taken in by interpreters neither is if great inconvenient albeit men pray publickly in an unknown tongue sithence preaching only is for edification and information of the judgment not prayer Iâ— there any scripture forbidding us to pray except the understanding of the hearers be instructed The high Priest amongst the Jews prayed in the sanctuary and was seperated from the people therefore could not instruct their understanding yet that was their forme of publict worship And the Apostle in the same chapter verse 5. To speak with tongues I forbid not I wish ye did all speak with tongues and he desireth them to pray that they might interpret And the Liturgies of the Church are interpreted to the people This scripture maketh more against your Ministers who with extemporarie prayers speak non-sense which hath made one of your own Poets say fools understand not us nor wise men you Answer You have need to understand the Greek tongue better that there be a difference Prote ∣ stants Answer betwixt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is an unknown tongue and when the Apostle saith 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it needed no other word for that comprehendeth barbarous language as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth the known tongue Further he desireth them to pray that they might interpret Ergo it was an unknown tongue Varro lib. 6. de lingua latina when he citeth Aristotles book intituled Absolet names calleth them Glossae Aristotelis any may see more of this in that learned Critick Mausacius †Mausacius in Harpoerationem pa. 352. If you will read the 7. verse the equivalent of it is in the original for he mentioneth speaking in a tongue not understood and is not that an unknown tongue Then it is in a tongue to which the unlearned could not say Amen when one blessed oâ— gave thanks Thus verse 16. and it is the purpose of the Holy Ghost to refute that unedifying way at length by sundry arguments Amongst which this is one that the understanding was thereby rendered unfruitful Therefore the Apostle resolveth to pray with the spirit and the understanding also verse 15. You absurdly contradict the Apostle by your practise and adde in termes that it is no great inconvenient albeit the understanding be unfruitful He saith it is one You deny it Whither shal I believe the Apostle Paul or you I am ashamed of your impudencie herein How dare you Palam in â—s contradict the Scripture Your ragged reasons subjoyned Because prayer is not so much for the understanding as Preaching and Catechising Is there any scripture say you not to pray except they instruct the understanding of hearers I answer the scripture is for it verse 15. I will pray with the spirit and the understanding also And if this were not so Parâ—ats might pray but we ought to speak because we believe Your other reason against the Apostle is That the high Priest amongst the Jews praying in the Sanctuary was separated from the people and did not instruct their understanding yet that was the forme of their publict worship Yea in the same chapter verse 5. The Apostle saith and to speak with tongues he prohibiteth not I answer that the high Priest amongst the Jews when he was with the people prayed in an known tongue Num. 6. and when he was alone in the most holy place where he entered but once a
year and that not without blood to typifie Jesus Christ he spoke also in the vulgar language of the Nation And was not all their administrations in Hebrew their mother tongue How then can you say that any of their worship was in an unknown tongue As for that you adde of the 13. verse and verse 16. it is so dark nonsense â—hat to me now ye speak in an unknown tongue and deserves no answer He desireth them to speak with tongues and interpret them to the unlearned for the use of edifying that all might say Amen What can be more clear against you At last you come off this as formerly and yeeld the cause and say that the liturgie of the Catholick Church is interpreted to every one and the greatest part of the publick prayers translated to the people and set down in their own prayer books And this place of Scripture maketh not against us but Ministers who with their extemporarie prayers speak non sense which hath made one of your own Poets say fools do not understand us nor wise men you I am glad to hear that this point which was deryed at the Council of Trent is now granted and if it be so why jangled you so much formerly But I find it is not so for you are taught to equivocat And what your greatest part meaneth is unknown here it is certain your Masses Aves c. are yet muttered and worded in Latine ye are ashamed to owne it not without reâ—son For your reflection on our worship we are for reasonable service and lively work to a living GOD not for none-sense and would to the Lord your worship were as pure as ours is this day many souls might be edified thereby Thirdly Invocation of Saints and Angels is will worship Col. 2. 23. How can we call Inst. 3. on him in whom we do not believe Rom. 10. 14. or lay stress of belief on a creature Beside they know not what we say Abraham is ignorant of us and Israel acknowledgeth us not Isaiah 63. 16. To this your return is that I wrest the Papists Reply scripture Col. 3. which speâ—keth only of the duty of Masters and Servants and not one word against the worship of Saints or Angels And that place Rom. 10. 14. is concerning prayer to GOD only not about prayer to Saints or Angels Because we will supplicat men on earth in whom we do not believe And the text Isaiah 63. 16. cited by you is meaned of the knowledge of approbation as Hierom interpreteth the place According to which it will rather follow that tâ—ey did know what passed here below and disowned a degenerated multitude Answer I confess if I had cited that place which you mention upon this subject I had not only wrested but martyred Scripture Prote ∣ stants Duply You may believe it never entered into my mind to do so The place I cited was the 2. chapter of the Collâ—ssians verse 23. where worshipping of Angels is termed will worship And what can you say to that I would suspect that you purposely have omitted this scripture yet this might as easily be refuted by you as 1. Cor. 14. For he who said the one said also the other The 10. Rom. 14. you labour to interpret thus that it is meaned of prayer to GOD not of calling on men or Angels because we will call on men on earth in whom we do not believe The words are general and the interrogative is equivalent to a negative None can call on them in whom they do not believe You say we call on men on earth What do we pray to men The calling here is a part of religious worship which cannot be given to the greatest Potentat in the World Then you tell that the 63 of Isaiah is meaned of a knowledge of approbation like that depart from me I know you not id est I approve you not so Hierom expâ—undeth the â—ext and accâ—rding to this expâ—sition it wâ—ll rather follow that they did know wâ—â—t passed â—ere below and disowned a degenerated 〈◊〉 I â—nswere that exposition of Is â—â— is contraâ—e to the strâ—â—â—o Interpreters Yet to the connexion of the words For it is a prayer put up to God and the 〈…〉 to be this Thou O Lord knowest how â—o helpe us although Abraham knoweth noâ— what is become of us So it is an opposition between divine knowledge and that of Abraham Doubtless thou art our father c. But supposing Hieromâ— interpretation to be true it will not follow that they knew what was done on earth but only this that if Israel were on earth they were so 〈◊〉 degenerated that he would not know â—is posteritie I 'le close this with the testimony of your own Eckius in his Enchir. ch 15. there is no warrand for invocation of Sâ—ints â—r Aâ—gels from the scripture and that the Apostieâ— either by word or writ left any thing behind them to be done c. He might have said more there be warrand for the contrar Fourthly Your worshipping of Imâ—ges is Inst. 4 an express breach of the second Command which forbiddeth any sort of worship to any Image in Heaven or in Earth Ex. 20. 4. And ye Papists being conscious of your guilt herein have thievously stoln out the second Command and divided the tenth into two branches witness Bellarmins Catechism and your other writters To this you answer That the division of the Commands is not in scripture so we cannot know the second or third How then standing Papists Reply by scripture your only determiner shal we judge of tâ—is And if you come to authority or reason I appeal to your self whither it be Idolatrie to worship Images Seeing all Idolatrie is against the first Command It being the worship of a creatâ—re in the place of GOD. Therefore Bellarmin and others take what ye call the second Command for a further explanation of the first and so set down but the substantial words Thou shalt have no oâ—her Gods but me Yet take not the rest out of the Bible which is there set down at length But Protestanâ—s take away all the Commandments saying it is impossible to keep them For there is no Command where there is no obligation of keeping aâ—d Nemo â—enetur ad impossibile Then reason mâ—keth for dividing the tenth Commandment in two For as theft and adulterie are forbidden by two Commands so the inward desire of the heart after a mans wife and goods should likewise in reason be rather forbidden by two Commandments then Idolatrie alone by two But if making of Images kneeling before them or worshippâ—ng them not as Gods but as things which keep us in mind of GOD and his Saints as the seventh general Council saith as the holie boâ—ks Why did GOD make man to his own Image and obliedge us to honour him as his Image Why did he put two Cherubs on the Aâ—k before which the Jews kneeled Why commanded he the Jews to adore the same Ark
pâ—â—loineth honour from the Lord and giveth it to others beside him as adultery giveth conjugal benevolence to others beside the husband or wife Idolum saith Isiodorus in suis Origin lib. 8. cap. 11. Est simulachrum quod humana effigie factum consecratum est That is an Idol which is made like a man and consecrated for worship So the exhibition of Religious worship to that is Idolatrie according to him Aug. epist. 119. ad Jan. saith in primo praecepto prohibetur coli aliqua in sigmentis hominum DEI similitudo quia nulla imago ejus coli debet nisi illa quae hoc est quod ipse nec pro illo aut cum illo In the first Command where he taketh in the second to us every similitude of GOD is forbidden to be worshiped because nothing should be woâ—shiped with him or for him but He himself alone Then according to him worship given to any Image made with hands not being God is Idolatrie Then it will follow first that the Gentiles did not alwayes worship a false GOD as ye shal afterwards hear And next that the Images representing â—he true God worshiped by them were Idols So that worship must be Idolatrie wâ—erever it is The Adulterie of a Pagan and a Christian are one So the Idolatrie of the one and the other cannot be diverse whatever difference may be otherwise amongst them Gerson sayeth Varietas imaginum plurimâ—s ad idololatriam pervertit Thereby implying that statue worship as practised by Romanists was Idolatrie Josephus a Jew con Appio saith it is abominable to place any Image in the temple of God and declaimeth against Pilat for intending the like It is known how averse the Jewes after the captivitie were from this way whatever pollutions formerly they committed Religious worship rendered to Images was detested by them and reckoned Idolatrous Varro a heathen as he is cited by Aug. lib. 4. de civit Dei sayeth that at Rome in the beginning fuit purior Dei cultus sine simulachris centum septuaginta annis Then by the twilight of Pagans the worship is polluted which is by Images And in Pagan Rome it was free of that 170. years Afterwards they took in Images and multiplyed their Gods so were they given up as the Apostle telleth Rom. 1. 23. By all these it is evident that Idolatrie is religious worship given to that which is not GOD. Idolatry Superstition and Will-worship may be thus distinguished Superstition is according to the Etymolygie of the word supra statutum and may be in many cases where there be no worship at all As when men are afraid of the signs in Heaven Jer. 10. 1. 2. If they meet such a foot in the morning if people be affrighted with dreams vain divinations as the falling of salt c. And be charmed from dependance by faith on the word of GOD. That is superstition which ordinarily prophecieth according to their sentiments all the fears they imagine The Papists would willingly take with superstition if we make Scripture the sole rule of faith and manners In this they are not unlike some Witches who will acknowledge when pannelled gross crims such as adultery drunkenness swearing Sabbath breaking that they may be thought the more ingenuous in denying Witch-chraft Bell. lib. 2. de Imag. cap. 8. saith no less Non est tam certum an imagines DEI sanctae Trinitatis sint faciendae in Ecclesia It is not so certain whither the Images of GOD and the holy Trinity should be made in the Church And he thinketh that worship given to these to be founded only upon opinion Therefore he must acknowledge it at least to be superstition Will worship is where there is no statute terminating it As the worshipping of Angels Col. 2. and they go away from it with this return who hath required it at your hands Thus all Idolatrie is superstition and Will-worship For the Apostle Acts 17. calleth the Athenian worship such and maketh use of a general smooth word to dispose them the more for hearing or because it may be there was no Image there but an Altar to the unknown God Yet all superstition and will-worship is not Idolatrie although all of them are damnable Ezek. 43. 8. and religious worship should not be ex arbitrio humano sed imperio divino †Tertull de Jejunio cap. 13. in vain do they worship me Matth. 15. 9. saith our Lord who do so There be no difference in scripture betwixt a consecrated Image and an Idol If an image terminat worship make it the brazen Serpent it is an Idol And that sculptile forbidden in the second Command the Hebrew word signifying it is Pesel which is ordinarily rendered by the 70. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Deut. 4. 16. and in the 4. of the Judges the word is twice rendered 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The greek word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is a name giveÌ„ to paga idols Rom. 1 2 3 the image of the beast Re. 13. 14 is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the worship whereof no Christian can deny to be idolatrie Image in Latine is quasi imitago and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is ordinarily tendered simulachrum imago Hippocrates Aph. 18. calleth the body of a man without the soul Idolum The truth of this causeth Lorinus confess that apud profanos authâ—res i. e. Criticks and Humanists 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aeque late patent si latinitate utraque daretur eadem est significatio idoli iconis Sed apud Ecclesiasticos i. e. Popish writters it is not So now let any reasonable man judge whither byassed Papists or learned Criticks not involved in the controversie can give the soundest sense of these words And seeing the Hebrew signifying both is one if it be safe to hazard Salvation upon a distinction meerly nominal without a sure ground of Scripture or reason 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in scripture and amongst Humanists are promiscuously taken for the Hebrew word Gnabad is indifferently taken and signifieth service wâ—ich is rendered by the 70. interpreters sometimes by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sometimes by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 For instance Daniel 6. 20. the speach of the King Darius to Daniel is thus tendered by the 70. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Daniel servant of the living GOD is the Lord whom thou servest constantly able to deliver thee from the Lyons In one verse 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are taken for one And it is ordinar in the Old Testament to render the word Gnabad by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Yea more in it self the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 coming from dal signifieth the most submisse service so it is absurd to say it belongeth to Saints and not to GOD whom we should most humbly serve And in the New Testament in more then 40. several places as Pasor proveth fully these
hoâ—ny or milk â—o the Sacrament of the Supper Neither is it reason to â—rgue from tâ—e name to the thing Wâ— call it Baptiâ—m with the Scripture And seeing his implyeth washing with water â—â— is grâ—â—â— superstition to do this without a warrand which hath â—o relation to washing 〈◊〉 would have mâ— râ—semblance with that then salt The name Sacrament is acknowledge I not to be a Scripture word But what Logick is thâ—â— The seals of the Covenant are named Sacraments by the Church Ergo we may adde materials to the work without a warrand The practise of the Baptist objected by me seemeth unanswerable for you fail by it as by a rock which is not candid dealing Yet it is your ordinar manner to pass with silence material arguments Seventhly Ye adde to the Bible humane § 7. Inst traditions which ye equalize and in a sort preferre to it This is point blank contrar to the Word Deut. 4. 2. Rev. 22. 18. If any man adde to these things GOD shal adde to him the plagues written in this book so ye have â—o fear a plague in due time Reply These are open calumnies made Papists Reply to deceive the people in Pulpits as I have shewed reflecting on your sixt answer And prove againe summarily by this Syllogism what is expresly contained in Scripture is not contrar to it But this is expresly commanded 2. Thess 2. 1. Hold fast the traditions which ye have received Neither are your citations of Deut. or Rev. to any purpose For when it is said there If any man shal adde to these things GOD shal adde to him the plagues written in the book Of necessity it must be understood of these books only adding any thing as a part of them otherwise it will exclude all other Scripture as well as tradition But it may be you think the Revelation the last written book of Scripture and that St. John there did speak of all the Bible But this is a conceit out of ignorance seeing Chemnitius your great Gun sayes his Gospel was written after the Revelation And some say so of his Epistles in the very last of which and last verse he sayes I have many things to writ unto you but not with pen and ink but I trust to come unto you and speak face to face But ye would not have believed him speaking face to face who will believe nothing but that which is written Answer You again defend traditions by your old argument A genere ad speciem affirmative Prote ∣ stants Duply which is none concludent as I have proved fully already upon the sixth question to which I referre the Reader And your answer to the 4. Deut. and Rev. 22. confuteth your self For you grant that it is not lawful to adde any thing as a part of these books Then say I it is as unlawful to adde traditions as a part of the Bible and make an entire object of faith with both which is your doctrine If the Pirrat was faulty for taking a ship Alexander was more faulty by taking of Nations We will put nothing to the Scripture that way For then we might make a new Bible and nothing into our Creed but what was written by the Penneâ—s of it You make me ignorant of the time when the Revelation was written and goes about to father that on me which came not into my mind How far and wherein we hold traditions Vide supra on Quest sixth I have no delight to make repetitions Eightly Ye mis-regard the Lords-day and § 8. Inst celebrate dayes of your own devysing contrar to and without any warrand from the Word see Gal. 4. 10. You reply that these are calumnies for we Papists Reply are taught to keep the Lords-day most religiously and with it the holy dayes of Christs-Birth Circumsion adoration by the Kings presentation in the Temple the feasts of the Mother of GOD of the twelve Apostles of some Martyrs and other Saints upon the same ground of Apostolick tradition and ordinance of the Church which the Scripture commandeth us to hear hold fast so what we do in this is neither contrar to Scripture nor without warrand from the written Word And your citation may be as well applyed against your observation of dayes of humiliation and thanks-giving For that place forbiddeth only Heathenish or Jewish days or dismal days superstitiously keeped on frivolous remarkes See Hierom on the place Aug. cont Argenant cap. 16. and in his epist 118. cap. 7. and hear the same Aug. speaking of all our holy dayes in express terms which Protestants taking away what St. Aug. saith may creep in both ungrateful forgetting of Christs mysteries and unkind oblivion of his Saints You call this Argument a Calumnie but it in too well known how small regard is had Prote ∣ stants Duply to the Lords day throughout the Popes Dominions And how farre other dayes of humane institution are by you preferred to them And for Aug. whom you cite as the main patron of them he was so far from approving the trash of his time brought in by the devices of men in the worship of God that in his 119. ep he sayeth If they continue they will become Heathnish and Judaize in many things So according to Hieroms exposition on the text Gal. 4. 10. concerneth you for some of your stust is Judaicall some Paganish Polyd. Virgil de invent lib. 4. in proaemio sayeth That a verie world of Jewish and Heathnish ceremonies pestereth the Lords field Agrippa de Vanit cap. 6. sayeth That Christians now are more oppressed with ceremonies then the Jewes were The Jewish holy dayes were but few in respect of the Romish for they had but their Passover Pentecost feast of Tabernacles of Trumpets Reconciliation New-Moons Purim and Dedication the most of which were of divine institution These have holy dayes for every Saint All saints all soules for the Cross Corpus Christi two dayeâ— every week Lent fast c. without any warrand from scripture or pure antiquitie For Aug. sayeth ep 86. against Urbicus we are indeed commanded to fast but I find not the dayes prescribed in the Evangelicall or Apostolicall writtings The same saith Socrates that it was left by the Apostles to every mans free choise lib. 5. cap. 22. and Erasmus on the 11. of Matth. complaineth that in Hieroms time there were few holy dayes beside the Lords day but now they were unreasonable and burdensome because of their multitude Thus you see neither Hierom nor Aug. savour your holy dayes unless it be in yoâ—r Utopian tractate contra Argentinant for there is non-such among his workes You might easily perceive that Gal. 4. 10. doth not militate as much against our dayes of humiliation or thanksgiving as your holy dayes if you woâ—ld consider First We have more regarde to he Lords-day nor any of these this we desiderar mâ—inly in you for as ye preferre humane traditions to the Scripture so do you these your dayes
of commutative justice betwixt GOD and man by the dignity of their workes after conversion and their refusing to have Heaven gratis Andradius the interpreter of the Council of Trent Orthod explic lib. 6. saith The reward of the just is not freely given but Heaven is set to the sale for our workes Tâ—pperus saith in Explic. art Lovan tom 2. art 9. GOD forbid that the just should expect eternal life as the poor man doth his almes it is our conquest our triumph and the prize due to our labours Valentia tom 3. disp 7. telleth that the workes of the faithful are satisfactory for the punishment of sin Bellarmin bringeth forth a new evasion de just if lib. 5. cap. 10. saying that Christ merited that we should merit So that the merit of our workes is from his merits this is plaister to daub with For where do we read in Scripture that phrase He hath suffered for us that we should be holy in all manner of Conversation and serve him in righteousness and holiness but no where that we should merit eternal life the gift is wholly from him so it is written Rom. 6. 23. Secondly This is petitio principii for the question betwixt Papists and us is whither we are unprofitable servants when we have done all So speak we with Scripture they say we are meritorious men Thirdly Suarez saith Tom. 1. in Thomam disp 4. another thing that good workes are in themselves and of their own nature meritorious therefore not such because of Christ his merits Otherwise saith he we could not be said to merit We say this is the way to clipe the satisfaction of Christ Jesus the value of the price payed for us What good workes we do are mixed with imperfections and are too few alas if the Lord accept of them and reward these workes with temporal or spiritual blessings it is not for the merit of the work but of free grace and mercy and for the merits of Christ meerly So we may be freely rewarded see Matth. 5. 46. Luk. 6. 32. where the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are promiscuously taken We cannot make amends to GOD nor satisfie his justice but his promise is sure not according to our merits but his own mercy so we must inherit eternal life this is Aug. doctrine on Ps 88. and Chrysost on Col. 2. Your satisfactions and merits are contrar to Scripture pure antiquity dishonourable to Jesus Christ and prejudicial to souls Now you see this reflection might have been well spared for it is no reply at all to what I said Sixteenthly Ye foster loosness and prophainess § 16. Inst by telling tales about Purgatory the use of prayer and sacrifices for the dead But the Scripture saith Heb. 9. 27. after death cometh judgement which must be understood immediatly otherwise it might be said after birth cometh judgement and in the grave there is neither work nor invention neither is there any place appointed for people after their removal hence save Heaven or hell Reply The telling of men that after their Papist Reply sins are forgiven they must suffer for the temporal pain due to them is not a way to foster loosness but rather to terrifie all who believe from offending GOD in the least seeing all such must be chastised either by GOD punishing or man doing pennance and that voluntary either here or in Purgatory hereafter according to the Apostle 1. Cor. 3. 15. If any ones work burn he shal suffer loss but he shal be saved yet so as by fiâ—e which place Augustin citing on Ps 37. saith and because it is said he shal be saved that fire is contemned yet that fire shal be more grievous then whatever a man can suffer in this life Purge me O Lord and make me such a one as shal not need that mending fire c. Now doth St. Paul or Aug. here tell tales Or can that mending fire by which a man is saved be more grievous then what he can suffer here Or can it make a man loose to pray with Aug. thus But it may be he was doting here as when he said Mass for his Mothers soul as we read in his Confessions committing both sacriledge and Idolatrie as commonly Protestants say to please an old wâ—fe after her death You adde that Scripture saith after death cometh judgement and in the grave there be neither work nor invention What maketh this against Purgatory Do Catholicks deny that we are justified at the very moment of death before they go to Purgatory Or that they work in the grave But how is it true say you there is no place mentioned in Scripture save Heaven oâ— hell to which the godly and wicked do go Albeit all go to one of these places yet is there not a prison mentioned from which a man shal not go till he hath payed the uttermost farthing Matth. 5. 25. which the Fathers expounded to be Purgatory viz. Hierom on this chapter St. Cyp. ep 52. Tertull. lib. de anima and doth not St. Paul above cited speak of another fire then that of hell Duply You have Rhetorications in defence Prote ∣ stants Duply of Purgatory which I pass and touch reason or testimonie produced by you You mention two texts of Scripture the one is Matth. 5. 25. where we are commanded to agree with our adversarie quickly c. this place proveth no Purgatory prison For first It is allegorick and so cannot be argumentative on a controverted point All that is here intended is that brethren should dwel together in love and forgive other their trespasses against them as is clear from the context Secondly If it were meaned of Purgatory it would make the Lord their adversarie they behoved to be delivered up to the Devil for he is the Jaylor of the prison Now it is strange divinity to say that the Lord is an adversary and the Devil a Jaylor to the man whose sins are forgiven him Thirdly If this prison be Purgatory then there is commutative justice betwixt GOD and man for such here pay the uttermost farthing And who can say to the Lord forgive me have mercy upon me and yet be of this judgement that he can pay all his debt by that mending fire and not owe any thing to free gracious pardon Fourthly It maketh punishment to purge away punishment which is Repugnantia in adjecto For you grant that the filth and blot of sin is removed here Your own Jansenius interpreteth it not of Purgatory Concor in locum The other Scripture is 1. Cor. 3. We shal be saved yet so as by fire that is not meaned of purgatorie fire but of probatorie fire in this life not hereafter Let any man read the chapter and he will see this the purpose of the Holy Ghost to shew what was doctrinally or practically erroneous should be put to the firie tryall when judgment should begin at the house of God as the Apostle Peter
errours but when the first seed was â—owne of these tâ—res probably men sleeped and an adversary hath done it Your Anti-Popes made an interruption of succession and possession otherwise their work was non ens If so then where is your uninterrupte I succession And if it be nor such you speak nothing to the point You say I cannot instance that any lawful Pope was deposed by a Council I hold no Pope lawful and your School-men say the Council cannot depose a Pope so it is an unlawful sentence But seeing it appeareth you are of the contrar mind I produced the instance of Eugenius the fourth deposed by the Council of Basil and all the Popes were his successours albeit the council judged Falix the 5. to be Pope But after your manner you pass with silence what you have not mind for You say vacancy for many years maketh no interruption because the Pope is like an elective King and the power in the interim continueth in the Electours This is loose language for once ye make the Popes like the Kings of the Nations against Matth. 20. 25. then ye make no inter-Regnum but seat the power in the Electours If so the power is not of GOD but of man contrar to Scripture Iohn 19. 11. Rom. 13. all that Electours have is the application And if it be theirs originally then they may depose a Pope by the Conclave For ejusdem est author are exauthorare That saying the King dieth not is meaned of hereditary Kings The Pope is not such and you will not say it For Elective Kings the Kingdom by his death wanteth a King as a Burgh doth a Provost If then the seat of the Pope vaiked so long the Church was headless for many years How make you out then the line of uninterrupted succession You come over again upon the call of our Reformers to which I answered formerly that oâ—r Ministers are called of GOD is proved by the success which some of them had in converting confirming convincing souls see Ier. 23. 32. they who runne unsent profit not at all but they have edified many and turned them from darkness to light We say not that the call of Luther and Calvin was immediat and wholly extraordinar But admit it were so it needed not miracles for the Baptist wrought no miracles yet was called extraordinarily What our Lord Jesus and the Apostles did that way are ours for use and aggravateth the sin of those who will not believe Gospel truths The place cited by you Iâ— 15. implyeth no more yet it is well known that Luther Calvin Knox Wishart Welsh Davidson were more then ordinar men and had the spirit of prophecie in some measure But we will not lay weight on these things seeing we have a more sure word of prophecie to which we are bound to take heed And this doth warrand us to purge out the old leaven with both out hands that we may become a new lump And no more is designed by our Reformation To conclude this then Our first Reformers had as lawful ordination as the Roman Kirk could give them And this is a strong argument ad hominem Secondly The power which that ordination gave them you say was to edification we are perswaded they made use of that in a Scripture way and edified more in one year then ye did in many If any man called to the work of the Gospel oppose the errours of many can that strengthen Sectaries Did not Paphnutius oppose a whole Council and was commended for it because he walked according to the rule and had Scripture on his side Did not Athanasius oppose the whole world almost turned Arrian and who ever blamed him for so doing The case is the same these called men adhered to the divine commission and opposed the errours of Popery Their praise therefore must be in all the Churches of Christ Question twelfth Ye are so broken amongst Papists Quest. your selves that ye look not like the primitive Christians who had one heart and way Answere first Our breaches are our burden before the Lord and a stroak upon us for Prote ∣ stants Ans 1 the abuse of that great Gospell-light under which we have long lived but not for coming out of Babylon Secondly Ye Papists are more divided Ans 2. for we all agree in doctrine and essentials but ye skirmish about that so frequently that if the â—udgment of the Roman Church be the sentence of your Church it is hard to know what people shall doe tyed to beleeve as your Church doth For sometime the Councill is put above the Pope sometime the Pope above the Councill The pragmatick sanction of France is allowed and subscrived by many cryed down by others Some will have a divine predetermination on the will others only morall swasion Some are for mediat concourse of the first cause with the second others for immediat If Unity be a convertible note of the Church ye are none Thirdly Perfect Unity in all things is not to be expected here so long as we know but Ans 3. in part 1. Cor. 13. 9. If whereto we have attained we walk by the same rule the Lord will reveal more to us in due time Phil. 3. 16. If any should have said that the Church of Corinth was not true because of some divisions or that therfore these of Corinth should return with the foolish Galatians to the covenant of workes it had been a Solecism in reason yet no greater then this to alleadge that some differences make us no Church Reply In your 12. Answer you grant your breaches amongst your selves as your burthen for the abuse of pure Gospel light How can Papists Reply ye all agree in Doctrine except in so far as the abuse of the Gospel which is to say true all the unity ye have Neither is it wonder ye do nor agree seeing ye do not acknowledge the high Bishop successour to St. Peter who as Hierom saith was chosen for this amongst the twelve that a head being constitute the occasion of Schism might be taken away Secondly You pretend that Catholick Romans are more divided then ye because sometime the Council is put above the Pope sometime the Pope above the Council But find you this as an article of the Catholick Church What ever hath been the opinion of sacred men yea of Fathers and Councils thereanent yet they were never confirmed nor owned by the Church for an Oecumenick decree And suppose both sentences were decided it is easily answered that the Pope is approved to be above a Council not approved by himself and a Council approved by a Pope is above a Pope alone wherein there is no disagreement or contradiction As for the pragniatick Sanction as it hath no reference to matters of faith so it maketh nothing for your purpose no more then praedetermination seeing all Catholicks who hold it think it taketh not away free-will But then you say perfect unity in all things is
and without Christ can do nothing Iohn 15 5. If you say more speak it out for it will be plain Pelagianism Exhorrations and communications are means to make us willing and obedient It is not in our power to think a good thought as of our selves dare you deny this Why then fall you fondly on us speaking with the Scripture Luke 17. 10. By grace we are saved freely through faith and eternal life is the gift of GOD the reward is a free remuneration and may be without our merits we grant free-will in Augustins sense and Jansenius proveth that this is true liberty by arguments which were never yet answered But we do disclaim Jesuitical indifferencie because it taketh away divire providence the power of grace and setteâ—h up anti-providences from the will of man Because we sin willingly who can deny that we are punished justly Neither take we the Scripture Catalogue from the Iewes but make use of reason testimonies from old Writters universal consent to be a porch for eâ—trie to the knowledge of the numerick controversie and how can you say so of our Catalogue seeing we mantain no book to be Scripture but such as ye allow And are ye not helped by the Jewes herein as wel as we Only we lay that the authority of the Scripture dependeth not on humane testimonie as upon its principal foundation nor yet upon unwritten tradition because divine faith must be begotten by a divine testimonie And we believe the Scriptures authority and truth side lâ—â—ina because the Lord hath spoken it In this true faith must be finally resolved else it is not divine It is a calumny to say we patch the Word seeing we make Scripture the only rule of our faith There be none in the Christian Church who adde such patches to the word of GOD as ye Our Reformation had authority both from Heaven and men on earth The Lawes of the Land can restifie this which are yet in vigor for it and against you And there may be new light in time of darkness which was formerly dimmed or put out which light is the good old light proceeding from the Father of lights If ye condemned this the world should have still continued Arrian when it was over-clouded with it and all Reformation even the Scripture one is unlawful see you not your absurdity here Yea it was prophesied Dan. 12. 4. that in the latter times knowledge should encrease and light also be extended but light without verity deserveth not the name Privat men have the liberty of discerning allowed to them Acts 17. 11. 1. Io. 4. 1. Yea such may have publict spirits and be called to publict employments But what you mean by this I conceive not For the Gospel worship which we mantain hath the consent of all the Scriptures Churches and primitive Fathers as is formerly proved to the full We wish the hearts of all our Pastors may be established by grace that they may be subjected to him who hath the government on his shoulder and by their faith working by love glorifie the chief Shepheard of the stock We will not recriminat ralling for railing but it were easie to shew Ye have a Church composed state-wayes Your policie devouâ—eth all pâ—â—ty Your superstitious vowes against marraâ—ge all chastity Your impeaching of the Scriptures all divine verity Your blind allegiance to the Pope all loyalty Your superstitious buskings all puritie Your worship in an unknown tongue all fervencie Your addition to the one Sacrament and mutitation of the other all sincerity Your universal infallible supremacie all primitive antiquity It is not long since this Reply came to my hand at the first view whereof I intended to take in and discuss arguments proposed by Dr. Vane in that Pamphlet entituled The lost sheep found And these contained in another of the same kind called Presbytries tryall And to survey the other two entituled The Touchstone and Fâ—at lux But finding the substance of all these in this reflecter and that he hath little of his own but maketh malt for the most of their barley by answering this all the foure are macerially answered which a discerning Reader will find to be true Now to close I obtest all who read this Vindication of the reformed Religion to consider the cause seriously without partialitie pride passion prejudice Remember that Iames 2. 1. Have not the faith of our Lord Iesus with respect of persons And the spirit of truth lead you into all truth The spirit of errour and lies be rebuked and resisted by the Lord That a pure offering may be offered to Him from the rising of the Sun to the going down thereof FINIS A POSTSCRIPT Containing an Advertisement and Advice to the Merchants of DVNDIE who travell abroad that they be not ensnared with the fopperies of Poperie AFter the writting of this VINDICATION I judged it expedient to give this word of Advertisement and Advice to such as be called by their affairs to negotiaâ— in Countreys where the Popish worship is only professed and mantained Because many travellers return home from these places as that French fool came back from Rome who passing through Ravenna least he should return empty to his friends gathered in that Forrest a multitude of bees and flees which being closed into a cloath bagge he poured forth amongst his relatives to their prejudice and offence And all they gained by his voyage was made up of stings and buzings So when travellerâ— return from forrain Nations either Neutral Nullisidians or leavened with Popish saperstition what is their purchase Nothing that can edifie any Will ever practical Atheism Gallioeâ— temper or tampering betwixt truth and errour advantage a man at the long runne Not at all These will sting like a serpent more then themselves a wound and dishonour may they have by it but nothing else The hazard which some Travellers tunne cannot be unknown to you For the man who in this City hath become Popish and stingeth some is thought by all that know him to have received the first dye thereof abroad when he travelled thither And although the flecks of that pestiferous malady broke nor forth immediatly after his return till the Carduns Maledictus of prejudice against some fellow Citizens made them appear yet there probably he was first infected Now if he who was gifted above many Merchants catched so sore a back-ward fall abroad that he hath now turned his back on that Church wherein he was born and iostered Have ye not reason with full purpose of heart to cleave to the truth of GOD which can only set you free It is not for nought that our Saviour said to his Disciples Luke 17. 32. Remember Lots wife It is certain that the Church of SCOTLAND is a great eye-sore to Papists and they craftily lay snareâ— to seduce her members at home and abroad Their hooks are feathered with variety of colours and the Convent at Rome de Propagan fide furnisheth many Emissaries who