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A12919 A discourse wherin is debated whether it be expedient that the scripture should be in English for al men to reade that wyll Fyrst reade this booke with an indifferent eye, and then approue or condempne, as God shall moue your heart. Standish, John, 1507?-1570. 1554 (1554) STC 23207; ESTC S117827 41,170 164

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ninth probation The vniuersal church of Chrst did neuer allowe nor approue Scripture to bee in the vulgare tongue weying the manifolde inconueniences that haue issued thereof but euer from tyme to tyme amonge other errours did tread that doune suppresse it If we therfore according to the article of oure Crede beleue the vniuersal Churche we must not admit the scripture to be in our Englishe tongue knowing that as S. Ciprian sayeth that whiche hathe been done and ordeyned by the church the holye ghost being the guyde is of as great weyght as that whiche was done by Christ him selfe The tenth probation Scripture is coūted to be somtimes meate somtimes drinke Greg. lib. i. moral drinke in light places meate in obscure places which in expoūdinge is as it were eaten being broken It was not therefore withoute great mysterie that Christ caused the Apostles to breake the breade to the multitude of the people whom he fed with v. loaues signifiynge the spirituall breakynge of the bread of the soule amonge the people euer to bee done by the ministers diligentlye and that it should not be complayned vpon by the Prophet Hierem. Thren iiii sayinge my children haue desired bread and there was none to breake it to them and likewise by Amos there is a great hunger sayeth he not of lacke of bodily foode but of hearinge the worde of God And also by Esay the nobles did perish for lacke of mete and the multitude for lacke of drinke Esay v. By these it maye well appeare that the common people shoulde not presume to expounde the scriptures thē selues nor to be iudges therof whiche yet they wyll doe as experience sheweth yf they haue it in the vulgar tongue Therfore away with it The eleuenth probation There be diuers and sundrie senses in the scripture as bothe Origen and Augustine doe declare whiche be not for euerye simple brayne to finde out Orig. homil 2. ● 11. in Ge. Aug. de vtilitate cre ad honor cap. 3. The mysterie oft is hidde the well of scripture is depe puteus altus est euery ones strength is not hable to drawe vp the water of lyfe furth of the botome of it Therfore the welle muste be couered lest the yonglinges fall into it and so be drowned The xii probation Paule thought not the Corinthians hable to haue the mysteries opened vnto them i. Cor. iii. saying I feede you with milke yet our most ignorant people wyll murmur if they may not fede thē selues with the highest mysteries of all euen in theyr owne natiue language Paule s●●th he fedde the Corinthians as younge children whiche yf they fede thē selues wyl defile slober their clothes And do not these nowe in oure dayes defile theyr weddinge garmente with presuming to feede them selues with spiritual fode of the soule And marke here I prai you that it was not without cause that Paul vsed here this similitude seinge children not suffered to fede them selues ofte strike the meate throughe frowardnes furth of the nources hande ofte forsake it and tourne awaye euen as doe styl the wicked whiche woulde feede them selues spirituallye with the englishe translation of scripture to theyr vtter poysoning after the maner of children which being permitted to fede them selues may gather vp poyson or ven●m and fede thereon not that I meane that in scripture shoulde be any poyson but that a medicine ministred by the Phisitian oft healeth which takē by your selfe not knowinge how where nor when to take it poysoneth and kylleth The Bee and the Spider gather on one floure the one honye the other poyson the floure ministring no occasion thervnto but onely their owne natures Where vpon S. Augustine sayeth Aug. in psal xlviij omnia diuina eloquia salubria sūt bene intelligentibus periculosa ijs qui eam volūt ad sui cordis peruersitatem detorquere all holye scriptures be holsome and moste profitable to them that vnderstande them aright but they be perilous to al suche whiche wyll wrast them after the frowardnesse of theyr owne heartes O lorde howe manye haue wrasted the scripture amisse throughe the wicked libertie of hauinge it in Englishe these many yeares The xiii probation Christ sayd to the Saduces ye do erre not vnderstāding the scriptures Math. xxii Ioseph lib. 2. de bel Iud. et li. 18. de antiquit the cause was that thei receyued no interpreters vppon scripture not muche vnlike vnto our men which only with the Englishe translation though it be neuer so false so corrupt and dampnable woulde take vpon them the full vnderstandynge of scriptures The .xiiii. probation Saincte Peter testified as it is in my fyrste chapter that many thynges in S. ii Pet. iii. Paules epistles were hard to be vnderstand which the vnlearned did then peruert to theyr destruction as they dyd other places of scriptures And yet for all this dare our vnlearned men be styll desyrous to haue the same scriptures in theyr owne speache to peruerte to they re owne condemnation The xv probation Dyd Christ ofte testifie that it was not for euery one too knowe the high mysteries and yet dare the blynde so presume styll onely with theyr English translation It was not wtout great cause that Christ woulde not his mysteries to be published to al people For the comen sort neuer vsed them well And therfore many hyghe mysteries there be sayth S. Basyl which neuer were wrtten but in the heart of the elect And. S. Hierom vpon Labia sacerdotis custodiunt scientiam Malach. ii sayeth that the ministers of Christes Churche whose duty is to teach the scripture must not styll vtter but kepe Tertull. in lib. de praescript haeret in medio libri tribuit omnibus apostolis arcana cognoscere quae ignobili vulgo nō licuit ▪ that in tyme and place it may be published Theyr office is this to do not for euery mā to searche the secretes Christe wold not euery one to be a medler when he sayde to his disciples it shall be youre office to know the mysteries and to Nicodeme Art thou a Master in Israell and knowest not this gere as who should saye it belongeth to teachers to be rype in scriptures and for other to be hearers iiii Esd xii God said to Esdras speakyng and declaring hygh misteries put these secretes surely vp and teache theym to the wise mē that be hable to vnderstande theym iiii Esd iiii as for the lewde he rebuketh theym as vnmete to knowe suche highe secretes and mysteries Euery Idiote can beare stones to the building of a house and lay a hepe together but none can couche theym as they ought to be in theyr places but the mason euery foole can reade and bable of the scripture but only the godly learned teachers can play the spirituall masons parte in couchyng the lyuely stones in the spirituall buylding of Christes house The .xvi. probation God sayth by Malache
nedefull God woulde haue sent it to the Eunuche to Saule and to Cornelius in the viij ix and x. of thactes but there ye reade that god sent them teachers Philip Anany and Peter and not the scripture whiche hadde been but in vayne as appeareth by the Eunuches sayinge howe shall I vnderstāde scripture by reading except I be taught Whervpon S. Hierom sayth Ego vt de me loquar nec sāctior sū hoc eunucho nec studiosior qu●cū librum teneret c. ignorabat tamen eum quē in libro nesciens venerabatur O howe manye this daye muche more ignorāt then Theunuche will take in hande onelye with their English boke to open mysteries bothe to theyr owne destruction and others The xxiij probation Our men wyll nothinge but theyr english booke but the holy man Ireneus which dyd see S Iohans disciple or as some affirme whiche was scholer to S. Iohans disciple named Policarpus doeth testifie that we must folowe the order of the traditions whiche the forefathers dyd leaue vnto them vnto whō they committed the cure of Christes people vnto whiche ordinaunces the very heathens sayth he comming to Christes stocke did obey hauing their belefe written by the sprit of God in theyr hartes and not writen with ynke in velom or perchement What shal we say then to theym whiche yet bewaile their Iewish scriptures plucked besyde the postes and walles onlye desyre theyr scripture with inke and paper in the booke As for saluation only wryten in the hart by the holy spirit it should seme they passe not of The .xxiiij. probation The heathen Philosopher would not youth to be the medlers with moral philosophy bycause they were vnapte therunto eyther to be Iudges therof or to take any profyt thereby and he ment not only youthe in yeares but also in maners a childe saieth Esaie of an hund●eth yeares old shal dye Esay lxv What then shal we saie shal we admit vnto the hādling of our heauēly philosophy whome the heathen thought vnmete vnworthy to handle theyr lerning whiche was but prophane woulde not the Iewes permitte all ages to the reading of all the bokes in the olde testament and shall we christen men doe it wyll we be worse then the Iewes Yea worse thē the prophane ethnickes and more out of order O Lord be mercifull vnto vs. The .xxv. probation It was neuer admitted though somtymes permitted in any place of christenedome scripture to continew in the vulgar tongue but only in tyme of scisme or heresy shall it nowe then be suffred to continew any longer in this realme so many mischefes yssewyng therout as haue done daily increasing these many yeares and would do styl more and more The .xxvi. probation When it is in the vulgar tonge the comen sorte play with Gods worde as the deuyll did disputing with Christ brought Gods worde but to a wronge purpose Christ said man lyueth not only by breade but by euery worde that procedeth fourth of Gods mouth The deuill spake Gods worde but it was not fourth of Gods mouth so did the olde Prophete of Bethell speake Gods word iii. Reg. xiii but not out of Gods mouthe Likewise did the CCCC iii. Re. xxii Prophetes whiche deceyued Achab. All sorcerers witches and cōiurers vse gods worde but not oute of Gods mouthe so haue all heretikes in tymes past and doe at this day But when is it Gods worde furthe of Gods mouthe Howe shall we know or proue that Euer when it is spoken according to the consent faythe of the catholike churche For very scripture doeth shewe that the trew vnderstandynge of Goddes worde and that is furth of gods mouth spoken is euer to be soughte in the catholike churche for the catholike church alone hath euer the true sense of scripture whiche is for that cause called of S. Paule the pyller and foundation of all trueth i. Timo. iii. wherein also for this cause God ordeyned some apostles some Euangelistes Ephes iiii some Prophetes and teachers styl to cōtinue lest we shoulde be ouerthrowē with blastes of errour And therfore Ireneus wttnesseth Iren. li. 3. cap. 3. and longe after him S. Augustine that the trewe meaning of scripture is to be hadde by the triall of the succession of the holye bishoppes and fathers since Peters time in the see of Rome which thinge caused S. Augustine to say I would not beleue the ghospell if thautoritie of the churche caused me not so to doe Aug. in epist fund So that we must beleue that hath been receyued of all men at all times and in all places of christendome and we muste leane to thantiquitie to the generalitie and consent of the fathers and the true sense and meanyng of scripture must euer be proued and tried oute herby How be it to none of this our new men wil agre because it whollye maketh agaynst thē but thei euer do studie to bring al into question to deny al general councels all ordinaunces decrees canons and expositours vpō scripture And much of this disorder thenglish Bible doeth cause wherfore me thinke it maye not well be permitted to continue The xxvij probation Can it be chosen but so long as all people haue the Byble in English at their pleasure there shal euer be some amonge them readie ministers of the deuyl to dispute reason and teache the residue to the vtter destruction of all deuotion and good order And yet amonge them selues they shall saye the cause is they can not be taught truelye of the preachers abrode And hereby heresye shal be sowed plentifullye and Gods worde pitifullye abused vnder a colourable defense therof Thei shal say o the Ghospell ought not to be kept from christen men and that is verye trueth it oughte to bee taught them and preached vnto them but not to teache them selues for wrastynge it amisse The xxviij probation It is the occasion of manye heresies to haue the scripture in the vulgar tongue Howe be it heresie dyd neuer spring furth of scripture but only of the peruerse vnderstandynge of scripture sayeth Hilarius Hilar. lib. ij de triuitate And yet then seing the rude ignorāt sort be euer prone peruersly to wrast the scriptures we muste thinke that to haue scripture in english is to minister occasiō to the cōmon sorte to fall into errours· that it so shall doe appeareth by that they be not hable to weye nor beare the mysteries nor to vnderstand the tropes and allegories whiche the greate learned men ofte are scant hable well to digeste howe much lesse the cobler carter or coryer The xxix probation Hilarius vpon In corde meo abscondi eloquia tua Sheweth that the high mysteries oughte not to be publyshed abrode amonge all people It is good saieth he to hyde the kynges priuetie and secret And s Paul saith he was aferd to fede the people with any other but with mylke Math. xiii Christ in the gospell telleth of
If Spiridion iustlye reprehended Triphillius but onelye for chaunginge of one worde in scripture cubile for lectū what reprofe are our men worthye Lib. i. Tripere capit x. whiche chaunge many hundred wordes yea sentences and all If holy Basilius wold not suffer one syllable of scripture to be corrupted or altered lib. vii tripert cap. xxxvi but rather would haue suffered many deathes what shall we then say to the great and damnable corruption and alteration that hath been among our men If holy Basilius bad the Emperors coke medle with his cokerye let scripture alone tuū est inquit de pulmētarijs cogitare nō dog mata diuina de coquere lib. vij ●rip ca. xxxvi what woulde he haue sayde to oure men these yeres past The .l. probation Hauinge the scripture in Englishe causeth manye braynles bodies to dispute and reason they know not whervpon and euer to lay scripture for the wickedlye as al heretikes euer did where as in dede in reasoninge with suche scripture wyll not serue Tertull. de praescrip haerettcorū et lib. iiij cōtra M●rtionem For as Tertullian saieth in disputing with an heretike we muste not flee to scriptures nor pitche our battel there for ther eyther neuer or els very hardly the victory shal be gotten Heretikes wylbe ouercome sayeth Sisinius vnto Nectarius in the storie of Socrates li. 9. trip ca. 19 neither with scriptures nor with disputations † Approbata ab ●cclesia nō oportet rursus rationibus fulcire etc. Nam quēadmodū par est spiritui fācto et Cbristo diuinitas ita in suis institutis est aequa authoritas potestas Nec minus ratū est quod eeclesia dictāte spiritu sancto tradidit quā quod ipse tradidit Haec Cypri de Lot ped but only by the authoritie of the churche and by the traditions of the fathers elders So that beside the scripture written we muste receyue manye traditions not written many generall councels in whō the holye ghost did speake and sundrie interpretations vpon scriptures made by the holy fathers beinge replenished wyth Gods spirite ¶ The conclusion of this simple discourse SEing now these probations which be euident against the scripture in Englishe seing also the great hardnes that is in scripture with the causes therof and how many waies the letter doth kyl And seing againe that the vniuersall churche of Christ hath vtterly forbid the scripture to be in the vulgare tongue consideryng the manyfolde inconueniences that ryse therof as great numbres of heresies disobedience and contempt of powers with fleshely libertie c. And finally seing that by no meanes so soone as by the scripture in english heresies do both spryng daily and be also mainteined wherin should good men be more diligent than in thexter patiō hereof wherfore it shal be euery faithful christians duetie being in authoritie to lay to his healping hande to the taking away quite that with al spede the Englishe translations with all hereticall Englishe bookes whiche no doubt haue been the greatest occasion of all the mischeifes we haue hadde in this realme of late dayes Through these our newe founde religion hath euer strongly been mainteined and vpholden Our new found religion I say which ye must nedes confesse to haue ben starke nought and damnable because the beginnyng was aduoutry the continuaunce extortion the ende plaine treason Yea euen from the beginning their procedinges for so they termed them beyng rather worthy the name of retrocedinges were styll from synne to synne Fyrst Peccatū quod per paenitētiā nō deletur suo pondere ad aliud peccatū grauius trabit Et hoc suppliciū domini longe omniū est grauissimū quād● vnū peccatū per aliud p●nitur quod peccatur quum in profundu ●enerit contēnit forsaking the head of the churche falling from the vnitie therof then despising all generall counselles all ordinaunces frō the beginning kept through out christendome After this spoyling pollyng pylling robbing and stealing all landes ornamentes goodes of the churche being more fearse then euer was Iulian thappostata without mercy or pitie And finally spytefully contemninge all the holy sacramentes with all censures and iudgementes of the churche and fathers vpon scripture only sticking to their own what pleased them to phansie O lorde was not this a tyme most miserable Iesu be mercyfull vnto vs and graunt vs neuer to fall againe into the lyke palpable darkenes ¶ Of Masse all other diuine seruice in the churche to be in Latine and not in the vulgare tongue ANd here note further I beseche you that like as it is nowe spoken of scripture not to be in English euen so is it ment that as vnlawful it is yea and more too if more may be that the high mysteries in the sacrifice of Masse or other diuine seruice should be in English where as the preist is a comon person and offereth vp for al the people beyng the meane betwene God and them so that his communication is to God and not to the people What cause is there then why diuine seruice should be in Englishe except ye thynke that God vnderstandeth no Latine Neither the Italians nor Greciās haue diuine seruice in their vulgare tongue Moreouer at that tyme of diuine seruice all the comen people then present shuld onely put their whole affiaūce in fide ma●ris ecclesiae in the fayth of oure mother the catholyke churche like as our beleif is in the baptisme of infantes Yea note further that it was not without great mystery the writyng of Christes tytle at his passion in Hebrewe Greke and Latine Also it was not without great mysterye that many wordes were neuer translated as Alleluya Osanna Amen Sabaoth Kirieleison c. And that Christ praied in secret silence alone the head for the whole bodie to signifie vnto vs thereby that the priestes office is likewise to doe the same the cōmon minister for al the people being meane betwene God them As for that of Paule to the Corinthians i. Cor. xiiii which might appeare to the simple to make for theyr purpose to haue all in the vulgar tonge yf ye marke it well it is onely spoken for them whiche doe preache expounde or interprete scriptures in the church that is to saye that their sermons their expoūdinges or interpretatiōs of scriptures they beinge authorised therevnto must euer be made in that tōge whiche the hearers doe vnderstande and perceyue And this ye know well bothe is and euer hath ben vsed And therfore here now further A man might demaunde a questiō wherfore ye com to the Churche I suppose ye wyll saye as ye muste no doubte yf ye tell the treuthe that the chiefe intente of your comming is or ought to be to pray though sermōs and diuine seruice and the ministration of the holy sacramentes be causes also seing that Christe called the Church the house of prayer