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A45153 The question of re-ordination, whether, and how a minister ordained by the Presbytery, may take ordination also by the Bishop? by John Humfrey ... Humfrey, John, 1621-1719. 1661 (1661) Wing H3704; ESTC R8105 33,209 104

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it does do according to the law of our Church or Land wherein I am not so well-skill'd as to speak surely In the first regard to wit of what it ought to do we stand upon it to be valid or good we profess that that alone is such according to Scripture as ought to give us the repute and full reception as Ministers by all persons and to all intents and purposes whatsoever But in the second regard to wit of what it does do we yield it is not valid we acknowledge it indeed hereby not to be so It does not do this 't is true it is that we perceive and know and complain of what through error in some and wilfulness and injury in others they render it to us as null both as to the main and special effects so that it will not any longer serve the turn or end through the stream of the times how happy soever otherwise to give our Ministry its free course the marrow of all and upon that account are we ordained again Which being I say the reason or one main reason at least of this rite it self it is substantially satisfactory and I suspect also obligatory for our yielding to the same And thus do I avoid both the sin on one hand of disowning our first Orders and the Soloecism on the other of doing only what is done in our last When yet I should have thought this matter might have passed pretty well at first if it had been but so determined as to be if men would some kind of Soloecism but no sin You have the body of this main Objection I shall now proceed to the limbs of some farther scruples Object Ordination is our entrance into the Ministry How can a man have a double entrance into the same state Answ Besides that this is taken off in the reason of the thing as to its foundation I return So is Marriage an entrance into the conjugal estate Suppose a couple marryed only by the Magistrate and as to some considerable effect their marriage is in question Who would doubt but upon such or any other serious cause for it they may be marryed again by the Book of Common Prayer And why not upon this very reason Because there is nothing else in it but only that that Form which is compiled in the Book for the entring or what is the truth signifying the entrance of two persons into wedlock is now used to signifie these to be entred or confirming them legally in that estate which it will do as well as enter them at first Who will say it is a sin or transgression to use it so A great piece of matter and mis-usage is it not Apply the same here and if any will condemn us for the like use of the form of ordering Priests let them include the multitudes that have been so marryed in these times and take heed they can answer it before the Lord. Who art thou that judgest thy Brother Rom. 14.10 Indignum est sayes the Father ut propter ea qua nos Deo neque digniores neque indigniores possunt facere alii alios vel condemnemus vel judicemus Object Ordination is not a naked sign only to declare a man a Minister before men but there is grace implored we are recommended to Gods grace and we are to suppose grace accompanying of it Now Is not the being twice ordained a kind of offering an indignity to the grace of God Answ If we look into 1 Cor. 15.10 we have footing for a distinction of Grace I laboured yet not I but the grace of God which was with me There is therefore the grace of God in us or with us That grace which is implored unto which we are committed and may expect from this solemnity is I take it the grace of God with us the assistance and blessing of God upon us for our work which being what we may alwayes pray for or what is continually vouchsafed I hope there is no more evil here then the bidding several times God speed or blessing our friends in the Name of the Lord more then once It was no wayes derogatory to the divinity of Pharaohs first Dream that it was seconded by another For that the dream was doubled unto Pharaoh twice it is because the thing is established by God By the way A second Ordination then by various persons and rites destroyes not the first but is an Establishment the title by which I have chosen to call it Object But there is a gift given by Ordination which is in us Neglect not the gift that is in thee which was given thee by Prophesie with the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery 1 Tim. 4.14 with 2 Tim. 1.6 And that gift it is likely can be received but once Answ It is probable that this gift was something extraordinary and peculiar to Timothy Because 1. It was given him by this ceremony as is thought according to the miraculous gifts of those times 2. He was an extraordinary Officer an Evangelist 2 Tim. 4.5 or at least a singular person 3. It is given him by Oracle 4. There is no mention of such a gift in the Ordination of any other If so this objection is quite taken off from us If not but the Gift is ordinary it will concern us And what then is it let us search that is conferred by this Rite It is not the grace of God gratum faciens or saving grace for that is not tyed to this means Nor is it the Original talent Endowment Parts or Abilities for the Ministry for those are tryed and to be found first in the party to be ordained and therefore not given hereby Nor should it be the Office it self one may judge because 1. What need is there the word Gift should be taken Metonymically when it may be taken properly 2. How can the Office be said to be stirr'd up Stir up the gift that is in thee sayes the second Text which is proper of the grace to discharge it 3. That which is yet harsher How can it be said of the Office The Gift that is in thee It is proper to say a man is in his Office but to say a man Office is in him seems strange 4. If it be thought the office must necessarily be conferred by this rite it is false in our instance of Paul for certain and Barnabas likely Haec manu●m impositto non eò spectabat ut Episcopalem gratiam cis largiretur sed docente Scripturâ ut segregarentur in opus commendarentur gratiae Dei Mason de Min. Ang. p. 46. If it be thought it may and does confer it where it is not before that shall be still supposed by me though not granted nor conceived Suppose it then seeing it is the most currant sense that by this gift is meant Docendi Officium as our London Divines with Anselm Thomas Cajetane Gerson Bucer or what is all one Authority Power and Commission for this Office
in Scripture and a stress is laid upon it but I read not so of one Ordination Where there is no law to the contrary where I pray lyes the transgression It is true there may be found in some ancient Canons something against this perhaps where they had not the like reason Si quis Episcopus aut Presbyter aut Diaconus secundam ab aliquo Ordinationem susceperit deponitor tam ipse quàm qui ipsum ordinavit say the Apocryphal Canons of the Apostles Can. 67. Where this very distinction thus made of the Clergy does witness them this one of them at least to be of after-times and so forged as Rivet notes it I know also the Trent Doctors out of the Schoolmen do tell me with an Anathema that there is an indelible character imprinted by three of their Sacraments whereof this is one for which cause they cannot be iterated but I know not that any of them can tell what this character is or where or how it is impressed or shew it me in the Bible or in the Fathers or that the Protestants do make any thing at all of it Synops pur Theol. Disp 43. Thes 36. Let my fear O Lord be taught me by thy Precepts and neither by mans meer notions nor Tradition Quod Baptismus non sit iterandus sayes Chemnitius in his Examen de Charactere de re magná agitur Pactum gratiae in illo Deus nobiscune iniit Illud verò sayes he blaming the Trent determination quod Baptismi proprium est ut scilicet non iteretur ad suos Ordines transtulerunt You may see easily through this little cranny the true light of this Great Mans free thoughts Will you be pleased therefore to hear an honest learned and impartial Doctor speaking his mind out full for him Dr. Baldwin Professor of Wittenberg De casibus conscientiae putting this very case Whether a man ordained by the Papists may be ordained again by us and maintaining that there is no necessity of it does yet clearly deliver here his thoughts in this matter Quod si quis existimat se tranquilliùs suo in nostris Ecclesiis Officio perfungi posse si etiam nostris ritibus ad Sacrosanctum Ministerium utatur nihil obstat quin Ordinationem à nostris accipere possit non enim eadem est ratio Ordinationis quae Baptismi qui iterari non potest Hoc enim Sacramentum est Ecclesiae illa autem externus tantum ritus Lib. 4. c. 6. cas 6. SECT III. I Have done now with my Essay as to the Question I come to the Scruples and Objections that have run into my Soul like water I shall endeavour through Divine Assistance to lave them out as well as I can by Confession or Solution For the first it hath been this The Apostle limiting the use of our Christian liberty in indifferent things to the rule of charity instances in meats offered to Idols The weak Brethren thought in their consciences it unlawful to eat of such meats the stronger Christian hereupon is bound to forbear because they seeing him who had knowledge sit at meat their consciences would be emboldned to eat likewise who having not that knowledge should sin Apply the case here Many of my Brethren do think it unlawful it is likely to be ordained again Now they seeing me though the meanest among them yet whom they think may have some knowledge to be re-ordained Shall they not be emboldned to do so likewise which if they do whilst they believe or doubt it to be unlawful they perish But when you sin against the Brethren and wound their weak consciences you sin against Christ I confess I do the rather propose this for the seeking satisfaction if it can be given me in regard of the vast range the Case hath and takes in more especially all Ceremony I cannot wear a Surplice nor read Common Prayer at this interim or stand up at the Creed Nay I cannot wear my hair long and a hundred more certainly indifferent things but some do think these in their consciences unlawful and so while I embolden them by my pattern to do the same I occasion their ruine and incur the hazard of such Texts Rom. 14 15 21. 1 Cor. 10.28 1 Cor. 8.11 12. Mat. 18.6 7. I must profess if this Proposition will arise from any one or from all these Texts that a man who is satisfied of a thing as indifferent and lawful must yet forbear upon the account that by his example others may be emboldned to the same who having not that knowledge do judge it unlawful and so sin if they do it then is the way of poor Christians the Lord knows very straight Nevertheless besides the learned Hammonds interpretation of that Chapter 1 Cor. 8. bearing away quite the edge of that place I am though through grace something enlightned to judge that a man may sometimes do much good in leading an example to the doubtful when a thing is becoming necessary as he may do much amiss in things more certainly lawful that are better spared As for the Schools definition of Scandal I say an indifferent commanded becomes rectum which was minùs rectum before and Scandalum with them is Dictum vel factum minus rectum praebens alteri occasionem ruinae I will take up with that here of Mr. Calvin treating about indifferent things in this case and mentioning Pauls circumcising Timothy and yet not Titus as to the point Nihil jam sayes he hâc regulâ expeditius quàm Utendum libertate nostrâ si in proximi nostri aedificationem cedat sin ita proximo non expediat eâ tunc abstinendum Inst lib. 3. c. 19. § 12. SECT IV. THE grand Objection in the second place and chief that I can think of and which I am perswaded if I can satisfie thoroughly I have done my work I will lay down as cleer as possibly I can frame it for it hath come in often and laid long with the dint of it in my thoughts Ordination is that which according to Divines does give a man the office of the Ministery they mean they say as to the Essence of the outward Call Jus Divin Evan. ch 11. This is the end they account hereof Now when a man is a Minister already there is not this end If there be not it's end it is to no purpose an ordinance or Gods name taken in vain which is against the Third Commandement To this I answer as cleerly I hope directly and fully and shall enlarge upon it after There are more ends then one in Ordination as in Baptism and other Institutions It is not necessary to the taking or using an ordinance that a man be capable of all it's ends I might adde if need were nor the grand end so long as there is some right and sufficient end of the same Ordination it is said does not install a man in his office but gives a man his commission and authority that is
it must be meant does not only doe this for it necessarily does the first whether it does the last or not I will suppose then it does no lesse It makes a man a Minister I say I suppose this not grant it and also signifies him to be such before men It gives the office and also it makes a man to be received as such in the Church where he is sent which is a matter of great weight and open importance as I shall say more about it Now I am fixed here Though we that are Ministers already cannot be ordained to the one end which is supposed the most common our case being peculiar yet are we may we and for any thing I know if required ought we to be ordained again for the other The common and generall end of Baptism was for remission of sins yet was Jesus Christ baptized who was not capable of that end but some others The common end of Ordination is for the office as is supposed yet if the Bishop shall say here Why comest thou to be ordained Thou hast no need that art a Minister already I will answer him humbly in my Saviours words Suffer it so to be now for it becommeth us to fulfill all righteousness It becometh us to conform to the peace unity and government of the Church as well as State so far as we can in the Nation St Paul is made a Minister by Christ himself Mark the words well for they are beyond dispute I have appeared to thee for this purpose to make thee a Minister And now I send thee to the Gentiles to open their blind eys c. Act. 26.16 17 18. And yet is he ordained after by the hands of men Act. 13.3 Will any man say that the imposition of hands did make him a Minister or confer his office That were not only against that text but such a manifest wrong he will never put up who in expresse termes stands upon it that he was an Apostle not of men neither by man but by Christ Gal. 1.1 which is the truth 'T is plain then that a man who is a Minister already may be ordained or that it is not necessary to be ordained only to this end to have the office conferred on him And now then my Friend that art in my case doe thou tell the Bishop thou art a Minister already Be sure thou doest not renounce thy former ordination and consequently as much as in thee lyes all thy ministeriall acts past together with thy consent to the Reformed Churches for any thing If he shall thereupon ask thee wherefore then wilt thou be ordained Say To this end this very end St. Paul here was ordained let it be what it will it is that alone I come for which indeed in effect is nothing else but the canonicall stamp of allowance or Establishment of thy former vocation and as for the bare Ceremonies it self twice using which alone is left to be excepted at value it not Who does not know that imposition of hands with prayer is used for Confirmation as well as Ordination I will advance here on further The reason of a precept is to be look't on as the precept To perform a precept against the reason of it is to break it To do according to the reason though not according to the precept is to keep it We have no precept in Scripture for Re-ordination but we have here in this instance the reason of it Let any one tell me the reason of this imposition of hands upon Paul by Lucius and Niger who could not be made a Minister by man seeing Christ had appeared to him as is said for that purpose before I will presume to give the same or the like for our re-ordination by the Bishop If you say Here was a command of the Holy Ghost It is true but that takes not away the reason of the rite the thing must have it's due end and reason but the rather for that What then is the reason indeed hereof Is it for to give the ministerial office and nothing else Surely if it does that at all which one may think God alone does by the warrant of his word upon his enabling gift and the mans Consent Yet is not this the reason altogether for certain because here is an instance to the contrary let any man cavill at it what he can What is the reason then Why really I think it is this This solemn rite does give the currant repute or valuation to a man of a Minister so that he who was truly called of God before is now received as such by all as to the exercise of his function with freedome and acceptation And this is that authority alone I count the Bishop gives at least as to us in those words Take thou authority c. To wit an authority of esteem in regard of men who many will not and many perhaps out of conscience mislead cannot hold me for a true or legall Minister otherwise And hereupon you see upon what ground it is we go in Re-ordination and that is no other then the very reason it self of Ordination which believe it is not a little matter even no lesse then that of the Apostle 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 namely the very course and glorifying of our Gospell which ought to be I think one of the greatest Concernments to us in the world To be short then for we are now at the bottome Forasmuch as our former ordination by the Presbytery though it be good according to God and consequently such as ought to give us this reputation or outward authority as Ministers which is the reason of ordaining yet does not do it and reach it's end in our Church by reason of the times and perhaps according to the ancient Laws as they are now changed and like to stand I argue where the reason of the precept is repeated who can deny nay who dare refuse the repetition of the duty And here the prime knot of the whole difficulty is also loosed which is this We on one hand dare not but own out former Ordination as valid for our ministeriall acts past On the other hand if we owne the first as valid what room can there be for a second There must be some sense therefore wherein it is to be conceived not valid null or rather as the case truly is nullified as to some considerable intents or else a second ordination does nothing but what is done which is absurd I answer therefore directly The validity of our former Ordination accipitur dupliciter This is what is cleer and so may seem easy to you found but cost mee many thoughts to frame and find This validity I say is to be taken either in regard of what it ought to do or in regard of what it does do as I have said It would be fuller if I could say In regard of what it ought to doe according to the Law of God and in regard of what
neighbour for his edification And here I may propose ex abundanti this farther Whether an irrefragable argument may not be drawn from the Apostles use of Circumcision upon any after the Resurrection of Christ to prove that an Ordinance may be used without breach of the third Commandment or other sin even then when it cannot be directed to its principal no not its proper end so long as it will but attain one higher then all to wit The promotion of the Gospel of the Lord Jesus I will therefore now call the Reubenites instance again to mind craving leave to make so much use thereof in the cloze as humbly likewise after this to declare our case There are many of us who have been some years fellow Souldiers with our Brethren we cannot find it in our hearts to be lawful to give our selves a discharge in this war which were so pleasing to the flesh upon a pretence that will not hold with the Lord and hereupon we have been content to be farther engaged and submit in this thing Now the Lord God the Lord God of Gods knows we have not done this to erect an Altar against an Altar one Ordination against another we have not done it in rebellion or renuntiation thereunto but rather for fear of this thing that in time to come or that now is they should say What have you to do with the Lord God of Israel or with his Ministry that are not ordained according to the fashion of the Land and so they shall make us cease from our service of him Therefore said we that it shall be when they should say so to us that we may say again Behold the pattern of your own orders for a witness between us and you that we have our part also in the Lord and how much we desire accommodation And now I hope that Phineas himself the High-Priest and all our pious and tender Brethren when they have heard these words will be pleased and let us pass with that blessing This day we perceive that God is among us because you have not committed this trespass against the Lord. For the second part of the Objection It hath pleased God by his Providence to call us universally to change and it is not the interest now of good men to be stiffe and dividing but to be finding out the most conscionable grounds of complyance as far as ever they can with one another It would have been ingenuous I think for the case of Bancroft and the Scotch Presbyters is known if Episcopacy would by some general act of Confirmation have waved Ordination past but if she deal me thinks against her nature Pedantically not generously not Catholiquely herein it will become us yet who are the parties thus ordained and properly concerned to be fair We know what is her chief flower something must be yielded to her if we would have her part with any thing again and so long as we may declare our own sense and escape the sin we are to comprimize the matter for our selves by bringing our conscience toward God and submission to her unto composition If a second Ordination did necessarily in the fact imply a renunciation of the first what a hainous thing had it been for Paul to be ordained after by men that was made a Minister immediately by Christ Assure your self therefore most firmly from the former Paper about that matter For my part I will confess although I am one that cannot be lookt on as engaged to the Presbytery any more then to have been ordained by them yet am I so held under the conviction of the power and life of godliness in some of that sort of men above many others that I cannot let Naomi go easily and much less part with her with any indignity When these good men or party were high I could not fall in with them Now they are down my spirit like Ruth is more ready to cleave to them Nevertheless as for their way and particular government I cannot choose but retain my freedom and be apt to understand with those that give us the greatest latitude unto agreement and concord in the Nation To which end that tenent of Whitgift Def. Ad. p. 78 83 98. to my thinking does conduce It is true that nothing ought to be tolerated in the Church as necessary to Salvation or as an Article of Faith except it be contained in the Word of God It is true also That nothing in Ceremonies Order Discipline or Government in the Church is to be suffered being against the Word But that no Ceremony Order Discipline or kind of Government may be in the Church except the same be expressed in the Word of God is an absurdity and breedeth many inconveniences For we know sayes Calvin that every Church hath liberty to ordain and appoint such a Form of Government as is apt and profitable for it because the Lord hath therein preseribed no certainty upon 1 Cor. 11.2 as he quotes him To proceed on this subject I have in my second Paper and second Proposition set down certain Texts which according to St. Jerome at large on the first of Titus do plead the identity of a Presbyter and a Bishop and from him made use of by others Now I will take a Note or two thereon which will come in fitly here as the farthest way perhaps about but the neerest way home of saying something to purpose in this business The one Note is this that As those places on one hand do shake Episcopacy if pressed strictly Jure Divino So do they on the other hand go farther and take the Lay-Elder clean away which while some have pressed as strictly in Presbytery it would not pass A Presbyter or Elder is all one with a Bishop in Scripture But there was never heard of a Lay-Bishop a Lay-Pastor and consequently no Lay-Elder I mean as to ruling Ecclesiastically in Ecclesiastical affairs for if there were any as to deciding of quarrels to prevent the Brethrens going to Law according to 1 Cor. 6. that I suspect was all When there are no qualifications layed down by the Apostle 1 Tim. 3. where he directs about the making Church officers but only of the Bishops and Deacons as it cuts off the Bishop from being a distinct Order from the Presbyter so does it quite cut away the Lay-Elder For that controverted place therefore 1 Tim. 5.17 which as it is urged in the Divine right of Church government did hold me under conviction until this light of the Presbyter being one with the Bishop was clearer than it I will give you my interpretation And the rather because neither of the many which Erastus Field Bilson Downam Mead Sutliffe or others have invented to wave that Text against Presbytery could satisfie me as perhaps this of mine may not likewise satisfie others Such as it is however you shall have it The Bishop and Elder I have said are one office the one name only signifying Industriam curae