Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	able_a	salvation_n	word_n	2,196	5	4.1078	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85049	A true relation of a dispute between Francis Fullwood minister of West-Alrington in the county of Devon, and one Thomas Salt-House, as 'tis said, of the county of Westmerland: before the congregation of them, called, Quakers; with some others that accidentally heard thereof: in the house of Henry Pollexsen, Esq; in the said parish of West-Alrington. On Tuesday the 24th day of October 1656. / Published by some that were present at the dispute; out of a single and sincere desire, that error may be shames, and the truth cleared. Together with an answer to James Godfries queries, by the said F.F.	Fullwood, Francis, d. 1693.	1656 (1656)	Wing F2520; Thomason E892_12; ESTC R206561	22,146	38

most remarkeably in the discourse Which doth even perswade us when we have thought thereupon since that though M. Fullwood had more charity for him in his discourse yet indeed he was a Papist The Lord awaken us betimes least we say peace peace when sudden destruction cometh Vale. A True Relation OF A DISPUTE between Francis Fullwood c. THe Quaker having ended his long discourse the drift whereof seemed to be onely to call the people to minde the light within them and to cry down the Ministery under the title of false prophets Mr Fullwood turned himself to Mr Pollexfen and said M. Pollexfen I acknowledg my self under your roof and therefore I shall speak nothing here without your leave M. Pollexfen replied you have liberty to speak your mind But before M. Fullwood could begin to speak he was prevented by a woman Quaker who began before him and forced the company to waite with patience till she had ended such another though shorter discourse as her brother before had delivered When she had ended M. Fullwood began to this effect Fullwood I have one word first unto this woman that spake last and that is to charge her with speaking expresly against the Scripture Sh● told us that eternall life was not to be found in the Scriptures whereas the Apostle saith expresly that the holy Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation Woman There is one lie already Didst not thou say thou wouldst speak but one word and hast thou said but one word I call the people to witness Full. I said I had one word to say to you I can easily instance the like expression in Scripture however I hope I have A w●rd of Exh●rtation Acts 1● 15. learned of him who when he was reviled reviled not again The man Quak. Let that pass the Scripture saith the same that she did Full. Doth any Scripture affirm that we cannot finde eternall life in Scripture Quak. Yea That Scripture which she intended as I shall shew thee Full. Pray Good people observe what he undertakes to prove viz. that the Scripture saith we cannot finde etenall life in Scripture Quak. 'T is in Joh. 5. Search the Scriptures for in them ye think to have eternall life Christ doth not say that ye shall have eternall life therein but ye think c. Full. Pray observe is here any such thing as he undertook to prove doth this Scripture say we cannot finde eternall life in Scripture it saith indeed ye think ye have eternall life in Scripture but is that ye cannot finde eternall life in Scripture Quak. But the Scripture saith He that hath the Son hath life not he that hath the Scriptures Ye will not come to me that ye may have life Full. True but this Son in whom eternall life is is alone to be found in Scriptures as the next words affirm they are they which testifie of me therefore eternall life is to be found in Scripture and thus your own text overthrowes you Full. But these had the Scripture and yet they did not come to Christ that they might have life they were without life though they had the Scriptures Quak. But these Scriptures continue and reveal this Christ in whom alone is eternall life and therefore could they but have searched the Scriptures untill they had found Christ therein they would certainly have found eternall life therein Here are in the text two propositions and an exhortation grounded thereupon 1. In the Scripturess ye think ye have eternall life 2. And as if he had said ye do not think amiss for they are they which testifie of me 3. Hereupon our Saviour grounds and strengthens his exhortation Search the Scriptures Why Because ye think ye have eternall life in Scripture and they do indeed testifie of me in whom alone is this eternall life therefore eternall life viz. in Christ may be found in Scripture Woman Can the letter of Scripture alone give life Full. The Scripture is able as a means though Christ alone be able as the principall cause to make wise unto salvation Quak. 'T is the man of God wise unto salvation Full. There are two truths in the words 1. The Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation 2. They are even able to make the man of God wise unto salvation The Company Come leave this here is an end of this Full. I shall now expect satisfaction from you speaking to the man-Quaker for I have many things to charge you with out of your own discourse But for our clearer process I desire to know first what shall be Judg betwixt us whether the Scripture or not Quak. Yea I am contented that the Scriptures as thou callest them be our Rule Full. I would ask but one thing more Quak. Nay Have I not answered thy question now thou shalt answer me one question Full. What is it Quak. Whether is that the Gospel-ministry that preacheth for hire Full. Have but a little patience and this will have its due place my other question is but in order to our clearer proceeding also Quak. Nay but I have answered thee one question already Full. One word will answer this also The Company Let him speak Full. My second demand then is this Whether the Scripture shall be our Rule in the express letter of it or whether we may draw any consequence from it Quak. I 'le have none of thy meanings or conceivings the very letter of the Scripture shall judg betwixt us Full. I am contented then that it should be so Quak. But now answer thou my question Is that a lawfull Ministry that preacheth for hire or not Full. Sir I expect that you prove from Scripture what you have delivered to us first Quak. Nay now I have answered thee two questions wilt not thou answer me one Full. Yes I will answer it it will come in its course Mr Tripe Then let M. Fullwood put one thing to you first which you delivered to us and do you answer to that and then let him answer this question Full. I am contented Quak. Thou hast a writing in thy pocket he saw M. Fullwood take Notes of his discourse give me thy writing and thou shalt be answered in writing Full. No Sir then for ought I know some Jesuit may answer it and not you I have you here now and expect that you answer for your self Quak. What thou afraid of Jesuit then Full. You shall find through Gods assistance that I am not afraid of you Woman Doest know the voice of a Jesuit when thou hearest him if not thou art a false prophet for the true Prophet knows the voice of a stranger Full. Prove that good woman Woman So I will The Scriptures say a stranger will they not follow for they know not the voice of a stranger Full. Well proved therefore they do know the voice of a stranger Woman But doest thou think that there is ere a Jesuit here Full. I am more charitable Yet more certain I

manifest in them Some do know the truth that do not walk in the truth but Christ is not in those that are unto every good work reprobate and do not walk in the truth Those that know their Masters will know the truth but those that know their Masters will may not do it 2. Some may know the truth and may have Christ in them and yet not know that he is in them If Christ as you falsly conceive be in every man and some men as this querie supposeth know not Christ manifest in them then Christ is in some men that know not Christ manifest in them And yet such may know the truth and beleeve in the truth and in Christ himself and yet not know that Christ is in them or that they are in Christ the case of many doubting broken hearts The Counter Queries hence arising 1. Whether there be no truth but Christ or whether there be no truth of Christ but Christ manifest within us 2. Whether Christ crucified or Christ ascinded or Christ interceding at the Fathers right hand be not truths or whether thus Christ be not without us 3. Or whether Christ be a mediator advocate and sufferer for us within us or as manifest within us only 4. Whether is the imputed merit and righteousness of Christ a truth or not or wrought within us only and not without us 5. Whether that light which is in every man be Christ or not if it be whether is Christ manifest in every man or not and then whether can any be ignorant of the truth in whom Christ is manifest if not where is the ground of this Question speak plainly without ambiguity or double dealing The Quakers fourth Querie Is there any other Christ the same yesterday to day and for ever and are not they reprobates that this Christ is not in The plain Answer There is no other Christ but he that died for our sins according to the Scriptures the same yesterday to day and for ever and they are reprobates that this Christ is not in Yet Christ is another then what he is as manifest in us 1. He is the second Person in the Trinity and as such he is not manifest within us he is within us in his Spirit who is said in Scripture to be sent into us by the Son as well as by the Father which is the holy Ghost distinct in person to the Father and Son therefore we read of three that beare record Mat. 28. in Heaven the Father the Word and the Spirit and the Word with the Father is said to bear record in Heaven only but the Spirit both in Heaven and earth 2. Christ is man also and as such he is not manifest in us for as man he is only in one place viz. in Heaven thus he was seen on earth thus he suffered under Pontius Pilate was crucified dead and buried and rose again the third day thus he ascended up into the Heavens which are appointed to contain Act. 3. him untill the restitution of all things To say that Christ is in every man is to contradict the Scripture mentioned which saith he is not in reprobates And to say Christ is in every man and yet to acknowledge he is not in reprobates is to contradict your selves Counter-Queries arising from this fourth Query 1. Whether hath Christ any humane body out of his Church Or whether hath he a real body in Heaven or in Heaven onely 2. Is Christ any other than what he is as manifest in man Or did he suffer and die being out of all other men for our 1 Cor. 15. 1 2 3 4. sins according to the Scriptures 3. Had Christ the same body in the daies of Abraham that he had in the daies of Herod Answer plainly by the Scriptures The Quakers 5th Query How and by what couldst thou have known there had been a Christ and a Saviour and a Mediatour if the Scripture had not spoken of them Answer or let thy silence acknowledge thy ignorance or natural knowledge The plain Answer Unless the Scripture had spoken of Christ I could not have known that there had been any such Saviour but by the revelation of God Angels or men Yet neither Angels nor men could have revealed it to me unless God the Father Son and Holy Ghost had first made it known unto them So great 1 Pet. 1. a Mistery is God manifested in the flesh Thus Christ was at first revealed by God himself otherwise he had never been known which revelation being now written by holy men of God moved by the Holy Ghost is become Scripture the onely ordinary way of making known unto men this Jesus Christ without special revelation Therefore those that would now attain to the knowledge of Christ must search the Scriptures for they are they that testifie of Christ Natural light cannot discover him neither may we expect new revelation seeing the old is acknowledged to be sufficient The Counter-Queries arising from this 5th Query 1. Whether the light which is in every man is able to discover Christ the Saviour without the help of Scriptures 2. Whether Angels have not as much natural light as men And why then do they look down into the Church for the knowledge of the Mistery of Christ 3. Whether Christ Saviour and Mediatour be different persons If not why then do you speak of them 4 Seeing nothing but God by his own word could reveale this Christ Whether the Scripture which onely speaks of Christ be not the Word of God Let not your silence acknowledge your ignorance or your Answer your error in so great concernments The Quakers 6 and 7 Questions Hast thou the Spirit of Christ yea or nay Is the hope that is in thee Christ yea or nay I choose rather to leave these two Questions for Mr Pitts his own plain Answer The Counter-Queries hence arising 1. Whether those that have the true light shining in their hearts have not the Spirit of Christ And whether all have not this true light shining in their hearts And then whether all have not the Spirit of Christ And then is it not strange if Mr Pitt want it 2. Whether all that have the Spirit of Christ be not Christs 3. Whether Christ and hope be all one If so whether hope died for our sins according to the Scriptures Whether hope be in Heaven contrary to 1 Cor. 13. Or Christ be not in Heaven contrary to Act. 3. 21. The Quakers 8th Query Whether Christ and his Apostles meant as they spake Or whether they left their words for Learned men to give another interpretation of their words Yea or nay The plain Answer Christ and his Apostles mean as they spake they left not their words for Learned-men to give another interpretation of them Yet in their words there are some things hard to be understood which learned and stable men alone can give the true interpretation of seeing men unlearned and unstable wrest the Scripture

am that the Papasts give you their doctrine and send you abroad to deliver it Man Quak. So then thou doest not think we are Papists Full. No truly But I beleeve you are deluded by them and used to manage their desparate and hellish designs But let me proceed to demand of you satisfaction in one thing seeing my present liberty goeth no farther 't is this Pray how do you prove that the Ministry of England preacheth another Gospel than that which Paul preached for that was one of the marks of the false prophets as you charge the Ministry of England to be and which I am here to challenge you to make good viz. that we preach another Gospel than that which Paul preached Quak. Who said thou wast a false prophet thou appliest it to thy self Full. Then am I a false prophet or not Quak. I did not say thou wast Full. But did not you mean the Ministry of England in your marks of false prophets Quae. I own a Ministry I own a Ministry in England for all thou saist I deny it One of the Company We do all understand that by false prophets he means the publick Ministry Full. I challenge him then to prove if he can that we preach another Gospel than that which Paul preached Qua. So I will Paul had his Gospel not of man nor by man but from God but thou hast thy Gospel by man Full. We attain to the Gospel another way than Paul did therefore our Gospel is another Gospel this I utterly deny prove this if you can that our different manner of receiving the Gospel doth render it another Gospel Qua. Doth not Paul say that he was an Apostle not of man nor by man but by the revelation of Christ Jesus and then tells us if any man preach another Gospel c. Full. But prove if you can that the manner of receiving did thus make it another Gospel Yea good people mark for in this his own text his argument is utterly ruined Gal. 1. 8 9. Though an Angel from heaven preach any other Gospel than that which I have preached or than that which you have received let him be accursed Observe 't is the same Gospel that Paul preached and that they received by his preaching Yet Paul as was said received this same Gospel immediatly from God and these Galatians from man from Pauls preaching therefore you may easily perceive that the d●fferent manner of giving or receiving the Gospel doth not make another Gospel the same Gospel is received by them from Paul which Paul received by the revelation of Jesus Christ Quak. But didst thou receive the Gospel as Paul did Full. I receive the Gospel from Paul as these Galatians did even from the same writings of Paul and they received the same from Paul which he received from God and therefore we receive the same Gospel which Paul did receive from the hands of God himself which Gospel we preach and not another The Company This is plain enough Go on to something else Quak. But thou preachest for Hire Full. I shall answer that anon but first do you prove that I preach another Gospel than Paul preached Quak. Thou preachest for Hire the Prophets prophesie falsly the Priests bear rule by their means we preach for nothing Full. Come come Sir You have told us that what you deliver you have by revelation from Heaven wherein I tell you you blaspheme the Lord Did God send you with lies and slanders to rail and reproach c Quak Did I slander thee wherein Full. You have slandered the Ministers in many things to name but one you have said to the people that the false prophets meaning us in the Ministry deny the light that is in all men Quak. Doest not thou say that there is no light in every man Full. No nor I beleeve any Minister in England The Company Then herein you are agreed Full. So far we are yet lest I should be misunderstood I shall shew wherein we differ about this light which is in every man We hold that this light is not of it self sufficient to lead men to salvation you as I conceive hold that it is sufficient to salvation Quak. Away with thy meanings and conceivings the word of God is not of any private interpretation Full. Stay friend I have a word of exhortation Wherefore according to a passage in your discourse you are bound to hold your peace Qua. Speak then Full. My discourse shall be grounded upon those known words Joh. 1. The true light which enlighteneth every man which cometh into the world This light is by severall parties taken in three severall senses yet it will appear that in neither of these it is sufficient to salvation Qua. He is at his senses and meanings again First Some take this light to be the relicks of that naturall knowledg which the goodness of God hath left and kept in man since the fall Now we grant that thus all men are enlightned yet it is very evident that all men are not savingly enlightened hereby for the Scripture witnesseth that some men have no such light in them namely such as speak not according to Isa 8. 20. this law and testimony of the word of God and notwithstanding this common light the Gentiles sate in darkness and in the shadow of death Secondly Others may suppose that every man is enlightened by Christ as Mediatour that all the light that is in men was purchased for them by the death of Christ and is wrought in them by the common influence of his spirit upon the world and thus they say Christ enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world Now should we admit this sense of the words yet this light as it is in every man will be found in Scripture to be onely common and not saving or not sufficient to salvation for yet notwithstanding the purchase and coming of Christ the Gentiles have their understandings darkned Eph. 4. And though it should be granted that this common light doth convince men of sin yet it doth not convince men of righteousness and judgment and therefore it is sufficient to leave men inexcusable but it is not sufficient to lead them to salvation Further Though it should be granted that this light might be called the Spirit of Christ if it be the effect thereof yet it is still denied that this operation of the spirit which is common to all is sufficient to salvation not but that the same spirit is sufficient but yet this operation of the spirit to convince of sin is not sufficient 3. Lastly Others do interpret this enlightning in the text to be the means of enlightning namely the Gospel-dispensation which the coming of Christ brought more eminently and universally into the world he being the first preacher of the Gospel in this sense Heb. 2. 3. Here I pitch for thus there is a light set upon an hill shining forth and offering it self to enlighten every man that comes

and are the Scriptures lies Mr Tripe But what they sing agreeth onely to Gods people and not to wicked men Full. 'T is their duty to sing and not their sin 't is their sin onely that by their wickedness they are not fit to sing They are not we grant such as their duty requires but can any be so weak to think that they are disobliged from their duty by their unfitness for it We require them to do their duty they shall answer it if they either neglect it or do it amiss This was the substance of the debate There were a few words passed about thee and thou which Mr Fullwood said might be proved from Scripture to be sinfull language because the Scripture determines the controversie about indifferent 1 Cor. 11. 16. things with an Argument from Custome If any be contentious we have no such custome nor the Churches of God Qua. See he pleads for old Customes Full. Sir What I say I bring Scripture for answer to Scripture Qua. But are these words indifferent Is Scripture-language indifferent Full. This is but the translation and it was indifferent for the translators to have translated it you or thou the original will suffer either Another But do not we say thee to God Full. Yes Pray let me take occasion to mind you when these expressions of thee and thou have their use in Custome namely in two cases 1. In a way of great familiarness as to our very intimates or those much below us 2. In a way of great reverence and distance as to God and to a Prince c. But in neither of these senses do you use them Qua. He dreams Full. You answer nothing There was no more offer'd to be said but one went one way and another another And Mr Fullwood having been sent for divers times he went to the door and there desiring the people in a few words to take heed of such seducers he went away many following him A Brief and Plain Answer TO JAMES GODFRIE'S QUERIES ENTITLED Some Queries to be answered by thee George Pitt who professest thy self to be a Minister of Christ but art found in the steps of the Pharisees and hast not the Spirit of Christ therefore the spirit of error With some Counter-Queries to be answered by James Godfrey thence arising By F. F. UPon the Title of these Queries I demand How did this James Godfrey know that Mr Pitt would not answer the following Queries according to his own mind And whether supposing Mr Pitt should return such an answer as James Godfrey would have him he be yet possessed with a Spirit of error Or whether he that erred in rash Judgment did so err by the Spirit of Truth The Quakers first Query Thou that saist Jesus Christ hath not enlightn'd every man which cometh into the world what are those that have not heard and can any hear except they be enlightned and is the Apostle or thee to be beleeved who said they have all heard answer in plain words The plain Answer I know none that speak what I suppose Mr Pitt is slandered with so directly against the Scripture as to say that Christ hath not enlightned every man that cometh into the world and whether all have heard or not or who those are that have not heard as the Apostle doth not so neither this James Godfrey nor any other man can tell however let him beleeve the Apostle before us in what we say contrary to the Apostle Yet he himself implies what we know certainly also that England hath heard and therefore hath had Preachers lawfully sent before such as he is came to teach her for how shall they hear without a Preacher and how shall they preach Rom. 10. except they be sent Counter-Queries to this first Querie 1. Which way doth Christ enlighten every man 2. Whether is hearing the means of enlightning or enlightning the cause of hearing and which is first 3. Whether Christ doth not enlighten any but those that come into the world and what shall we think of those that die in the womb 4. Whether men are enlightned as soon as they come into the world or when 5. Whether those that cannot hear be enlightned or not what shall we think of deaf persons if they be enlightned are not more enlightn'd then do hear if they be not elightned how is every man enlightned 6. Whether Christ may be said to be in all because he enlightens all 7. Whether all that are alive came within the Apostle Peters question Have they not heard 8. Where doth the Apostle say that all have heard answer thou in plain words 9. If all that have heard are enlightned whether our people had not heard before you came amongst us if not then how had all heard and if then whether they were not enlightned before you came and if so what need had they of you The Quakers second Querie Whether the light that shines in the heart doth not give the light of the knowledg of Christ which enlighteneth every man that cometh into the world The plain Answer The light of Christ as the Cause shines in the heart and gives the light of the knowledg of Christ as the effect to every one that is enlightned therewith and this light of the knowledg of Christ by the light of the glorious Gospel in our despised Ministery hath shone into the hearts of many of our people before ever you came amongst them to eclipse and darken it The Counter-Queries arising hence 1. Whether the light that is in the heart of every man shine in the heart of every man and whether the understandings of those can be darkened in whose heart the light shines 2. If so Then how can it be said of any that there is no light in them or that they sit in darkness or whether is Esa 8. there any darkness at all in the world or if there be whether it be there where the light shines in the hearts of men or not or whether their darkness doth not comprehend the light in whose hearts the light shines 3. Whether light that shineth in the heart of every man doth give the light of the knowledg of Christ to every man effectually and whether every man that is in the world hath the knowledg of Christ 4. Whether the light which shineth in the heart of every man is sufficient to give the light of the knowledg of Christ without the Scriptures if so then what is the reason that those that hear not of the Scriptures do not know Christ 5. Whether the Scriptures be not they that is only they that testifie of Christ The Quakers 3d Querie Is there any know the Truth but they that know this Christ manifest in them The plain Answer Some do know the truth that do not know Christ manifest in them For 1. Some do know the truth that have not Christ in them and therefore that do not know Christ to be in them much less