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scripture_n aaron_n apostle_n show_v 21 3 5.2038 4 false
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A66579 The vanity of humane inventions held forth in a brief exercitation upon the controverted ceremonies, managed in certain queries : first drawn up for the satisfaction of some private friends, and now made publick for the good of others. Wilson, Joseph, d. 1678.; Willson, John, d. ca. 1672. 1666 (1666) Wing W2928; ESTC R2749 85,695 142

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and_o unprofitable_a work_n peter_n martyr_n chemnitius_n and_o other_o reform_a writer_n teach_v that_o all_o ceremony_n what_o soever_o that_o be_v inexpedient_a and_o unuseful_a aught_o to_o be_v throw_v out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o some_o of_o the_o papist_n say_v the_o same_o aquinas_n say_v it_o be_v sufficient_a for_o the_o casheer_v of_o a_o thing_n that_o it_o be_v not_o profitable_a or_o edify_a nay_o bellarm._n render_v this_o as_o the_o reason_n wherefore_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o scribe_n and_o pharisee_n be_v unlawful_a because_o they_o be_v vain_a and_o unprofitable_a some_o amongstus_fw-la demand_n what_o hurt_v there_o be_v in_o the_o ceremony_n and_o what_o evil_a we_o can_v see_v in_o they_o now_o this_o even_a in_o the_o judgement_n of_o papist_n be_v a_o frivolous_a question_n for_o we_o must_v not_o only_o see_v that_o what_o we_o use_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n be_v not_o evil_a but_o that_o it_o be_v good_a not_o only_o that_o it_o be_v not_o 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and_o beget_v strife_n among_o brethren_n nothing_o at_o all_o 131._o t._n 3._o de_fw-fr bapt._n l._n 1._o c._n 24._o p._n 131._o and_o therefore_o bellarmine_n have_v mention_v the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n and_o some_o other_o matter_n use_v by_o we_o in_o baptism_n challenge_v our_o writer_n to_o prove_v any_o of_o they_o either_o from_o testimony_n or_o example_n of_o holy_a scripture_n what_o the_o ceremony_n under_o debate_n be_v for_o decency_n and_o order_n shall_v appear_v in_o due_a place_n qu._n 5._o whether_o since_o god_n have_v no_o where_o empower_v the_o church_n to_o institute_v ceremony_n she_o may_v take_v upon_o she_o to_o do_v it_o without_o warrant_n from_o he_o if_o we_o may_v measure_v her_o power_n in_o these_o day_n by_o what_o it_o be_v in_o former_a she_o may_v not_o hear_v what_o god_n say_v to_o the_o jewish_a church_n you_o shall_v observe_v say_v he_o to_o do_v as_o the_o lord_n your_o god_n have_v command_v you_o 5.32_o deut._n 5.32_o you_o shall_v not_o turn_v aside_o to_o the_o right-hand_a or_o to_o the_o left_a again_o what_o thing_n soever_o i_o command_v you_o 12.32_o deut._n 12.32_o observe_v to_o do_v it_o thou_o shall_v not_o add_v thereto_o nor_o diminish_v from_o it_o mark_v he_o do_v not_o only_o forbid_v they_o to_o add_v to_o his_o commandment_n but_o to_o that_o which_o he_o command_v which_o be_v so_o plain_a and_o full_a that_o one_o will_v think_v it_o shall_v make_v those_o who_o believe_v the_o scripture_n cautious_a how_o they_o introduce_v any_o thing_n of_o their_o own_o into_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n but_o leave_v precept_n i_o shall_v offer_v you_o some_o particular_a instance_n which_o may_v serve_v to_o clear_v this_o matter_n abel_n noah_n and_o other_o ancient_a patriarch_n offer_v external_a sacrifice_n unto_o god_n but_o
cassand_n anglican_n p._n 26._o that_o though_o the_o ceremony_n be_v inconvenient_a &_o not_o as_o they_o shall_v be_v yet_o in_o case_n of_o deprivation_n we_o may_v conform_v to_o they_o but_o though_o what_o he_o allege_v as_o i_o shall_v show_v hereafter_o do_v not_o hold_v against_o we_o yet_o it_o do_v against_o they_o though_o we_o may_v not_o do_v evil_a that_o good_a may_v come_v of_o it_o yet_o they_o may_v forbear_v evil_a that_o good_a may_v come_v of_o it_o though_o we_o may_v not_o use_v the_o ceremony_n that_o thereby_o we_o may_v gain_v liberty_n to_o preach_v the_o word_n yet_o they_o may_v wave_v the_o impose_v of_o they_o to_o let_v we_o have_v liberty_n to_o do_v it_o qu._n 13._o whether_o shall_v they_o not_o in_o all_o their_o constitution_n observance_n and_o imposition_n take_v care_n that_o they_o avoid_v scandal_n and_o offence_n choose_v what_o thought_n they_o may_v have_v of_o it_o christ_n make_v a_o business_n of_o it_o and_o such_o a_o business_n that_o he_o advise_v we_o rather_o to_o pluck_v out_o a_o right_a eye_n 5.29_o mat._n 5.29_o or_o cut_v off_o a_o right_a hand_n than_o suffer_v they_o to_o offend_v nay_o he_o declare_v that_o it_o be_v better_o for_o a_o man_n to_o endure_v the_o great_a temporal_a punishment_n and_o so_o escape_v than_o offend_v any_o of_o his_o servant_n whoso_o shall_v offend_v say_v he_o one_o of_o these_o little_a one_o 18.6_o mat._n 18.6_o which_o believe_v in_o i_o it_o be_v better_o for_o he_o that_o a_o millstone_n be_v hang_v about_o his_o neck_n and_o that_o he_o be_v drown_v in_o the_o depth_n of_o the_o sea_n if_o it_o be_v such_o a_o dangerous_a thing_n to_o offend_v one_o what_o be_v it_o to_o offend_v many_o and_o if_o it_o be_v such_o a_o dangerous_a thing_n to_o offend_v such_o as_o be_v of_o little_a stature_n in_o godliness_n what_o be_v it_o to_o offend_v such_o as_o be_v of_o great_a but_o to_o go_v on_o paul_n likewise_o make_v a_o business_n of_o it_o 10.32_o 1_o cor._n 10.32_o give_v none_o offence_n say_v he_o neither_o to_o the_o jew_n nor_o to_o the_o gentile_n nor_o to_o the_o church_n of_o god_n shall_v we_o occasion_v our_o brother_n fall_n god_n may_v just_o suffer_v he_o to_o die_v in_o his_o iniquity_n and_o after_o require_v his_o blood_n at_o our_o hand_n qu._n 15._o whether_o notwithstanding_o this_o be_v not_o our_o adversary_n in_o their_o rigorous_a urge_n of_o the_o ceremony_n guilty_a of_o gross_a and_o apparent_a scandal_n that_o you_o may_v the_o better_o understand_v this_o note_z that_o there_o be_v a_o three-fold-scandal_n such_o as_o be_v mere_o active_a that_o be_v give_v and_o not_o take_v or_o such_o as_o be_v mere_o passive_a that_o be_v take_v but_o not_o give_v or_o such_o as_o be_v both_o active_a and_o passive_a that_o be_v both_o take_v and_o give_v a_o man_n do_v active_o scandalize_v his_o brother_n either_o by_o become_v a_o stumbling-block_n to_o he_o and_o occasion_v his_o fall_n and_o so_o balak_n scandalize_v israel_n 2.14_o rev._n 2.14_o in_o tempt_v they_o to_o eat_v thing_n sacrifice_v unto_o idol_n and_o commit_v fornication_n or_o by_o displease_v or_o grieve_v he_o through_o some_o action_n which_o he_o perhaps_o take_v to_o be_v lawful_a but_o his_o brother_n take_v to_o be_v otherwise_o and_o thereupon_o be_v trouble_v think_v he_o offend_v god_n and_o dishonour_v he_o and_o do_v not_o make_v that_o conscience_n of_o his_o way_n he_o shall_v and_o so_o peter_n scandalize_v our_o saviour_n when_o he_o dissuade_v he_o from_o go_v up_o to_o jerusalem_n 26.23_o mat._n 26.23_o in_o both_o these_o a_o man_n be_v very_o injurious_a to_o his_o brother_n for_o by_o the_o former_a he_o attempt_v the_o ravish_a of_o his_o innocency_n and_o by_o the_o latter_a his_o comfort_n now_o be_v not_o our_o adversary_n guilty_a of_o both_o these_o of_o the_o former_a they_o be_v guilty_a by_o harden_v and_o encourage_v papist_n in_o their_o way_n whereas_o they_o shall_v rather_o labour_v to_o convince_v and_o reduce_v they_o by_o suggest_v to_o the_o magistrate_n the_o necessity_n of_o the_o ceremony_n and_o move_v he_o to_o make_v law_n to_o constrain_v such_o as_o stand_v out_o to_o submit_v to_o they_o by_o create_v in_o the_o people_n a_o conceit_n of_o excellency_n and_o usefulness_n in_o they_o and_o persuade_v they_o to_o close_v with_o they_o and_o by_o tell_v both_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o that_o those_o who_o refuse_v to_o comply_v with_o they_o in_o the_o use_n of_o they_o be_v proud_a factious_a disloyal_a and_o the_o like_a labour_v thereby_o to_o incense_v they_o against_o they_o and_o stir_v they_o up_o to_o persecute_v they_o and_o of_o the_o latter_a they_o be_v guilty_a by_o vex_v and_o grieve_v their_o brethren_n with_o these_o their_o sinful_a practice_n whereby_o they_o hinder_v they_o of_o that_o joy_n and_o comfort_n that_o otherwise_o they_o may_v have_v c._n epist_n ad_fw-la regin_v eliz._n col_fw-fr 24_o c._n what_o shall_v i_o say_v say_v zanchius_n of_o the_o conscience_n of_o private_a believer_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o they_o be_v great_o trouble_v with_o this_o commandment_n about_o put_v on_o these_o linen_n garment_n for_o they_o do_v so_o great_o complain_v that_o their_o lament_a voice_n and_o groan_n do_v reach_v unto_o and_o be_v hear_v in_o germany_n now_o how_o grievous_a and_o distasteful_a a_o offence_n it_o be_v to_o trouble_v the_o conscience_n of_o the_o godly_a the_o holy_a scripture_n show_v 270._o repl_a p._n 270._o etc._n etc._n nay_o mr._n sprint_v say_v it_o may_v be_v grant_v that_o offence_n and_o hindrance_n to_o edification_n do_v arise_v from_o the_o ceremony_n and_o who_o set_v out_o those_o who_o the_o god_n of_o this_o world_n have_v be_v deal_v with_o be_v so_o blind_a as_o not_o to_o see_v it_o to_o pretend_v it_o be_v offence_n take_v and_o not_o give_v as_o our_o adversary_n do_v be_v a_o shift_n too_o gross_a to_o take_v place_n in_o a_o day_n of_o such_o light_n when_o they_o have_v prove_v that_o the_o ceremony_n be_v lawful_a and_o that_o they_o do_v lawful_o impose_v they_o than_o they_o may_v with_o some_o show_n of_o reason_n make_v such_o a_o pretence_n but_o till_o they_o have_v do_v that_o they_o shall_v forbear_v but_o suppose_v it_o be_v offence_n take_v not_o give_v yet_o will_v not_o that_o clear_v they_o because_o they_o be_v the_o occasion_n of_o take_v it_o it_o be_v not_o only_o require_v that_o we_o do_v not_o intentional_o or_o direct_o give_v offence_n to_o our_o brethren_n but_o likewise_o that_o we_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o administer_v a_o occasion_n whereby_o they_o may_v take_v it_o unless_o it_o be_v in_o the_o necessary_a discharge_n of_o our_o duty_n and_o then_o indeed_o it_o be_v not_o culpable_a to_o we_o but_o to_o they_o what_o do_v our_o adversary_n think_v of_o the_o high_a place_n gideon_n ephod_n 8.13_o exod._n 20.24_o judg._n 8.27_o 2_o king_n 18.3_o 1_o cor._n 8.13_o the_o brazen_a serpent_n the_o eat_n of_o flesh_n before_o a_o weak_a brother_n be_v the_o offence_n in_o these_o thing_n give_v or_o take_v which_o of_o they_o all_o be_v not_o in_o itself_o lawful_a nay_o which_o of_o they_o all_o may_v not_o have_v be_v very_o useful_a yet_o the_o holy_a ghost_n when_o they_o come_v to_o be_v occasion_n of_o stumble_a will_v have_v they_o lay_v aside_o if_o we_o will_v walk_v even_o and_o avoid_v offence_n we_o must_v not_o only_o shun_v that_o which_o be_v evil_a but_o that_o which_o have_v so_o much_o as_o a_o appearance_n 130._o syntag._n l._n 6._o c._n 3._o p._n 339._o sum._n 22._o q_o 4._o art_n 7._o comm._fw-la erum_fw-la in_o illum_fw-la loc_fw-la de_fw-fr repub._n part_n 1._o l._n 1_o c._n 11._o n._n 18._o p._n 130._o or_o show_v of_o it_o as_o not_o only_a polanus_fw-la and_o such_o like_a protestant_a writer_n but_o aquinas_n cajetan_n bannes_n spalatensis_n and_o other_o papist_n teach_v and_o whether_o the_o ceremony_n before_o we_o have_v not_o in_o they_o so_o much_o as_o a_o appearance_n or_o show_v of_o evil_n you_o may_v hear_v anon_o but_o they_o go_v on_o and_o say_v that_o in_o urge_v the_o ceremony_n as_o they_o neither_o desire_v nor_o intend_v any_o offence_n so_o they_o render_v a_o reason_n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o what_o they_o do_v for_o the_o prevent_v it_o they_o appoint_v minister_n to_o show_v the_o intention_n of_o the_o church_n and_o declare_v the_o true_a sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o they_o ans_fw-fr 1._o just_o thus_o the_o adiaphorist_n of_o saxony_n and_o lipsia_n reason_v 509._o vide_fw-la schluss_n catal_a vol._n 9_o t._n 13._o p._n 509._o they_o will_v have_v corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la day_n observe_v but_o withal_o to_o salve_v the_o business_n they_o will_v have_v a_o sermon_n to_o teach_v the_o people_n their_o meaning_n in_o
present_v themselves_o to_o we_o to_o raise_v spiritual_a meditation_n and_o if_o so_o wherefore_o may_v we_o not_o frame_v or_o take_v up_o such_o matter_n as_o other_o have_v frame_v which_o be_v apt_a to_o teach_v and_o mind_v we_o of_o spiritual_a thing_n answ_n 1._o this_o plea_n as_o well_o as_o the_o former_a tend_v to_o the_o justify_n of_o image_n and_o those_o ceremony_n which_o be_v lay_v aside_o as_o well_o as_o those_o which_o remain_v 2._o we_o must_v put_v a_o difference_n betwixt_o take_v occasion_n from_o those_o outward_a sensible_a matter_n that_o be_v before_o we_o to_o raise_v spiritual_a meditation_n and_o a_o set_n up_o of_o such_o matter_n for_o a_o stand_a use_n and_o place_v a_o spiritual_a signification_n in_o they_o 4.10_o joh._n 6.27_o 4.10_o we_o may_v with_o our_o saviour_n from_o common_a bread_n and_o water_n take_v occasion_n both_o to_o think_v and_o speak_v of_o spiritual_a yet_o we_o may_v not_o take_v either_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o and_o set_v it_o up_o as_o a_o stand_a remembrancer_n to_o we_o we_o may_v from_o the_o behold_n of_o a_o surplice_n take_v occasion_n to_o think_v of_o the_o presumption_n and_o boldness_n of_o man_n that_o not_o content_v themselves_o with_o the_o simplicity_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o perfect_a institution_n will_v be_v frame_v of_o such_o needless_a superstitious_a vanity_n but_o yet_o if_o we_o shall_v take_v a_o surplice_n and_o hang_v it_o up_o before_o we_o that_o so_o it_o may_v continual_o put_v we_o in_o mind_n thereof_o we_o shall_v render_v ourselves_o as_o ridiculous_a as_o those_o who_o use_v they_o for_o another_o end_n 3._o we_o must_v also_o put_v a_o difference_n betwixt_o make_v a_o spiritual_a use_n of_o those_o sensible_a matter_n that_o be_v before_o we_o and_o bring_v they_o into_o the_o house_n of_o god_n and_o there_o allow_v they_o state_n in_o his_o worship_n we_o may_v from_o the_o be_v hold_v of_o a_o lamb_n take_v occasion_n to_o think_v of_o he_o who_o be_v lead_v as_o a_o lamb_n to_o the_o slaughter_n but_o yet_o we_o may_v not_o bring_v a_o lamb_n into_o the_o place_n of_o worship_n to_o mind_v we_o of_o he_o that_o be_v to_o put_v upon_o a_o silly_a beast_n the_o office_n of_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n which_o be_v ordain_v for_o that_o use_n but_o to_o leave_v this_o while_o our_o adversary_n be_v labour_v to_o maintain_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o their_o significant_a ceremony_n i_o will_v by_o the_o way_n know_v one_o thing_n of_o they_o and_o that_o be_v this_o they_o say_v they_o teach_v no_o doctrine_n but_o what_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n and_o yet_o withal_o say_v that_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n do_v teach_v we_o not_o to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o christ_n crucify_v now_o let_v they_o either_o show_v we_o where_o the_o scripture_n say_v that_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n do_v thus_o teach_v we_o or_o else_o confess_v that_o they_o teach_v some_o doctrine_n beside_o what_o be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n qu._n 21._o whether_o may_v they_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o add_v new_a part_n to_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n that_o sure_o they_o may_v not_o do_v without_o guilt_n of_o high_a presumption_n it_o do_v and_o ever_o do_v and_o always_o will_v undoubted_o belong_v to_o god_n and_o none_o but_o he_o to_o institute_v and_o prescribe_v his_o own_o worship_n and_o every_o part_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o all_o such_o as_o undertake_v to_o do_v it_o how_o wise_a holy_a or_o great_a soever_o they_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v do_v no_o less_o than_o invade_v his_o royal_a throne_n and_o usurp_v his_o sovereign_a power_n what_o guilt_n then_o have_v our_o adversary_n draw_v upon_o themselves_o in_o institute_v of_o the_o ceremony_n for_o have_v they_o not_o introduce_v they_o into_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n and_o make_v they_o part_n of_o it_o be_v not_o remembrance_n and_o instruction_n concern_v constancy_n pureness_n reverence_n and_o such_o like_a duty_n real_o and_o proper_o religious_a worship_n and_o be_v not_o the_o ceremony_n such_o thing_n as_o these_o do_v they_o not_o allow_v they_o state_n in_o their_o worship_n have_v they_o not_o the_o same_o use_n and_o end_n that_o other_o part_n of_o worship_n have_v do_v they_o not_o urge_v they_o with_o the_o same_o rigour_n that_o they_o do_v hear_v of_o the_o word_n pray_v sing_v of_o psalm_n and_o other_o substantial_a duty_n do_v they_o not_o count_v the_o pure_a holy_a sincere_a service_n as_o imperfect_a disorderly_a slovenly_a and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o without_o they_o be_v it_o not_o therefore_o evident_a that_o they_o make_v they_o part_n and_o considerable_a part_n too_o of_o worship_n 92._o t_o 3._o the_o effect_n sac_fw-la l._n 2._o c._n 31._o p._n 92._o bellarmine_n deal_v open_o herein_o and_o in_o plain_a term_n tell_v we_o that_o ceremony_n be_v a_o part_n of_o divine_a worship_n and_o if_o our_o adversary_n that_o follow_v he_o so_o close_o in_o other_o point_n think_v it_o convenient_a to_o speak_v their_o mind_n perhaps_o they_o will_v say_v as_o much_o of_o they_o whether_o there_o be_v not_o ground_n for_o it_o i_o leave_v you_o to_o judge_v by_o what_o i_o have_v here_o brief_o hint_v 46._o aim_n fresh_a suit_n part_n 1._o p._n 46._o and_o a_o learned_a author_n have_v full_o prove_v qu._n 22._o whether_o may_v they_o institute_v new_a sacrament_n and_o add_v they_o to_o those_o institute_v by_o christ_n if_o they_o may_v let_v they_o show_v where_o they_o be_v empower_v to_o do_v it_o if_o they_o have_v a_o power_n to_o do_v it_o let_v they_o show_v their_o letter_n of_o credency_n for_o it_o if_o it_o be_v a_o thing_n common_a to_o all_o christian_a pastor_n and_o church_n wherefore_o do_v they_o fall_v so_o foul_o upon_o the_o papist_n for_o it_o whenas_o in_o other_o thing_n they_o be_v so_o ready_a to_o justify_v they_o and_o join_v with_o they_o if_o they_o may_v not_o institute_v new_a sacrament_n how_o will_v they_o defend_v the_o ceremony_n which_o though_o they_o do_v not_o call_v they_o sacrament_n yet_o they_o give_v they_o the_o nature_n of_o they_o sacrament_n as_o they_o themselves_o teach_v be_v outward_a sper●●●●_n sign_n of_o inward_a and_o spiritual_a grace_n and_o be_v not_o the_o ceremony_n such_o thing_n as_o these_o when_o they_o baptise_v a_o child_n do_v they_o not_o make_v a_o cross_n upon_o his_o forehead_n in_o token_n that_o hereafter_o he_o shall_v not_o be_v ashamed_a to_o confess_v the_o faith_n of_o christ_n crucify_v and_o manful_o to_o fight_v under_o his_o banner_n against_o sin_n 264._o dr._n burg._n of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o kneel_v c._n 17._o p._n 52._o mr._n paybody_n apol_n forkneel_v part_v 3._o c._n 2._o sect_n 15._o p._n 264._o the_o world_n and_o the_o devil_n and_o to_o continue_v christ_n faithful_a soldier_n and_o servant_n unto_o his_o life_n end_v and_o as_o for_o the_o surplice_n do_v not_o they_o maintain_v the_o use_n of_o it_o to_o be_v to_o signify_v the_o pureness_n that_o ought_v to_o be_v in_o a_o minister_n and_o as_o for_o kneel_v at_o the_o supper_n do_v not_o they_o say_v it_o be_v a_o signification_n of_o the_o humble_a and_o grateful_a acknowledgement_n of_o the_o benefit_n of_o christ_n wherein_o then_o do_v their_o cross_n surplice_n kneel_v fall_v short_a of_o sacrament_n they_o be_v new_o devise_v sign_n and_o every_o new_a divise_v sign_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o very_a eminent_a protestant_a writer_n 587_o writer_n willet_n of_o baptism_n q._n 8._o err_v 15._o p._n 587_o be_v a_o sacrament_n it_o be_v true_a they_o lack_v divine_a institution_n but_o have_v they_o not_o go_v as_o far_o as_o they_o can_v towards_o the_o make_n of_o they_o sacrament_n they_o be_v not_o in_o every_o respect_n sacrament_n but_o that_o be_v not_o because_o they_o will_v not_o have_v they_o to_o be_v so_o but_o because_o they_o can_v not_o make_v they_o so_o now_o may_v they_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o make_v sacrament_n when_o they_o be_v not_o empower_v to_o do_v it_o be_v they_o able_a to_o work_v that_o which_o be_v signify_v by_o they_o or_o do_v they_o think_v that_o god_n will_v make_v they_o effectual_a for_o produce_v of_o the_o end_v intend_v as_o for_o the_o former_a i_o suppose_v as_o bold_a as_o they_o be_v they_o will_v not_o pretend_v to_o it_o and_o as_o for_o the_o latter_a i_o may_v say_v with_o chemnitius_n we_o have_v a_o promise_n of_o the_o efficacy_n of_o the_o word_n 228._o exam._n pt_n 2._o de_fw-fr rit_fw-fr p._n 228._o but_o not_o of_o figure_n invent_v by_o man_n though_o we_o may_v upon_o good_a ground_n expect_v that_o god_n will_v bless_v his_o own_o ordinance_n yet_o we_o have_v no_o ground_n to_o expect_v that_o he_o will_v bless_v those_o device_n which_o man_n have_v take_v up_o not_o only_o without_o