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A40102 A vindication of the Friendly conference, between a minister and a parishioner of his inclining unto Quakerism, &c. from the exceptions of Thomas Ellwood, in his pretended answer to the said conference / by the same author. Fowler, Edward, 1632-1714.; Ellwood, Thomas, 1639-1713. 1678 (1678) Wing F1729; ESTC R20275 188,159 354

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I hope these scandalous Ministers will prove but few when compared with such as truly thirst after the honour of God in a faithful discharge of their duty Here you may have a full view of the Quaker's honesty Par. But says he however the Priests have fed the People it is evident the People have fed the Priests well for they are grown fat and wanton c. p. 3. Min. But while such a number of the Priests are so slenderly provided for And while the People are so wanton as to kick at their Lawful Pastors it may be easily inferr'd who is the better fed of the two Par. Next he comes to enquire into the causes why the People are not profited under your Ministry We read says he of some in former times who did not profit the People at all and the reason thereof is also given c. In the 23d of Jeremiah vers 30. the Lord by the Prophet saith Therefore behold I am against the Prophets that steal my Word every one from his Neighbour Behold I am against the Prophets saith the Lord that use their Tongues and say He saith Behold I am against them that prophesie false dreams saith the Lord and do tell them and cause my People to err by their lyes and by their lightness yet I sent them not nor commanded them therefore they shall not profit this People at all saith the Lord v. 32. Here the very Ground and Reason why that Ministry did not profit nay why it was rendred uncapable of profiting the People at all is most plainly given by God himself viz. He sent them not nor commanded them p. 4. Min. That this Scripture does not reach his purpose will be evident if we consider 1. That this non-proficiency of some of the People do's not inferr that we are not sent seeing it may proceed from other causes In the careless hearers of Ieremiah it proceeded not from any corruption in his Doctrine which was Divine nor of his Life which was Holy but from the hardness of the Peoples hearts in that they would not bearken In the hearers of the false Prophets it proceeded from their dreams lyes and lightness which they taught and to which the People trusted 2. That this Scripture is ignorantly and injuriously applied to the present Ministry appears in that those false Prophets perswaded the People and that to the ruine of that Nation that Jerusalem should not be destroyed that they should neither see Sword nor Famine Which was an Errand upon which God never sent them Besides they were a company of Fanatick Enthusiasts who cheated the People by false pretences to extraordinary inspirations I have dreamed I have dreamed was their canting note Not to profit the People then is in the true sense of this Scripture not to secure them from the Captivity and Calamities hanging over that Nation Now let us examine how truly this Scripture is applied to the present Ministry Do We come with any new Errand to the World or pretend to extraordinary inspirations to confirm it as those did Or do We Preach peace to impenitent sinners No the contrary is well known So the words do rebound upon the Quakers themselves while in their strange doctrines and misconstructions of Holy Scripture they are guilty of the same fault with those lying Prophets in saying The Lord saith when he hath not said and in their presumptuous pretences to Revelation to confirm it as also in opposing the true Ministers of God as those Fanaticks opposed Ieremiah Par. But he denies your Ministry when he saith Hath God sent thene or do they send one another That they are Ministers of Mans making common experience shews page 6. Min. I answer The Ministry in general is distinguisht into Ordinary and extraordinary Thus it was under the Law and under the Gospel too Of old the Priesthood belonged to the head of every Family challenged by a right of primogeniture But when the House of Israel multiplied into many Families it pleased God for the more advantageous settlement of his Church and the better Government thereof to devolve the Priesthood upon Aaron and to call him to the same in an extraordinary manner by a Commission from Heaven to Moses for his Consecration and to settle that Priesthood successively upon his Posterity without any further need of an extraordinary Call to the Priests of succeeding Generations Such too was the Evangelical Ministry For Aaron's Priesthood being antiquated The Apostles were called to their Function in an extraordinary manner even by Christ himself and by the visible descent of the Holy Ghost were accordingly qualified for the discharge of it Yet even in the Apostles days this Extraordinary Call ceased For Timothy and Titus were Ordain'd by imposition of hands and were commanded so to Ordain others by which means the Ministry was by the Divine Ordinance to descend to all Ages in an orderly succession though not in one Family as Aaron's did These things thus premised do determine our present case as followeth He that is sent according to the order appointed by God in Holy Scripture though by the Ministry of men is not a Minister of man's making but of God's But both the Priests of the Law and the Priests of the Gospel though consecrated and Ordained by the Ministry of Men were sent according to the order appointed by God Therefore they were not Ministers of Man's making but of God's and by him truly call'd and sent Were Timothy and Titus Ministers only of Man's making because they were ordain'd by imposition of hands And if many of the people did not profit by their Ministry as many of the Cretian's did not by Titus's was the fault think you in their not being sent Par. No sure Min. Do you suppose T. E. himself could be ignorant of a truth so obvious Par. Methinks he should not Min. What then should he mean by saying We send one another and by that common experience which he says shews that we are Ministers of Man's making Par. What can he mean by it but your going to the Bishop for Orders as common experience shews you do Min. Truly his words stand very fair for this meaning and therefore not only you but doubtless his whole Fraternity and many others do so take it and through ignorance may be corrupted by it and made to believe We are not sent by God because ordained by the Ministry of Men. Par. Indeed I cannot deny but this passage brought me under some scruples till you gave me this satisfaction Min. If T. E. could not be ignorant in so plain a Case what can be his design here Whatever a Man pretends to mean by any of his expressions yet to set them down in such terms as will impose upon vulgar Readers and engage them in error can surely be no upright dealing Par. No how should it But if says he speaking still of the Ministers of England they ministred by the
Answer to an Exchequer Bill and very formally too put off their Hats and kiss'd the Book The late Bishop of Lincoln being either as Plaintiff or Defendant concern'd in a Chancery Suit a Quaker at a Commission came very formally to swear against him One of the Commissioners from whom I had the account ask't him How it came to pass that he being a Quaker would swear He told him Thou knowest that among Huntsmen it was never thought amiss to kill a Fox or Badger by any means such being allowed no fair play c. leaving it to himself to make the application You see then that it 's lawful to go to Law in civil Cases to ingage others to swear and sometimes to swear themselves As it interest and envy ought to take place though contrary to the Principles and Honour of Christianity God knows I mention none of these things out of any envious Principle but to discover to the Quakers the danger that they are in From which Good God deliver them for His blessed Names sake Amen The Conclusion Par. IN the conclusion of T. E's Book having first falsly told His Reader that He had given a particular Answer to the most material passages in yours He gives you a warning from writing any more against the Quakers for if you do you may expect him on your Bones again For He saith that He no way doubts but that the Lord will enable him or some of his Servants to vindicate his truth p. 363. Min. God no doubt will take care of his truth but if He enable T. E. to write we may be confident that it will be a Recantation of what he hath already writ However let not him think that his idle Threats will discourage me in duty of doing good Par. His main Business here is to present His Reader with a collection of some of your Phrases which He calls Virulent Expressions and which He saith your Academical Education hath bestowed upon you p. 364. Min. Whether my Expressions were Virulent or no This I am sure here 's a foul and impudent Slander in charging my Academical Education therewith but wherein do's this Virulency appear Par. His first Instance is this the Spirit of Quakerism and the Delusions of it ibid. Min. This mind 's me of an old Woman who corrected Her Maid for swearing because She call'd a Hen a Jade Is not the Quaker think you sadly put to 't when for want of matter He falls upon such innocent expressions as these I must confess I could not forbear smiling when I found not only a Fanatical Iesuit for a woful bitter expression but the whim in the pate put into his Catologue Pray do you remember upon what account it was spoken Par. Yes For to vindicate Scripture from the idle fancies of some You supposed a Man troubled with a Vertigo in his Head should say he was confident the Earth turned round you askt whether it was the Earth or the Distemper in the Brain that occasioned that misapprehension so said you every Fanatick will tell you that he has the Scripture on his side in behalf of his opinions where is the fault in the Scripture or in the Whim in his Pate Min. You see then how that expression concern'd all Fanaticks in general and is it not very pleasant that to prove me virulent He should take Fanatick to himself and Party Par. You said the Quakers were Cheats and Impastors ibid. Min. It s true I said it but not before I first plainly proved it You know the Quakers pretend to immediate Teaching and that they speak and write by the infallible dictates of the Spirit of God if so then must all their works be as authentick and of equal Authority with the Scriptures themselves Now having discovered their gross ignorance in the interpretation and applicacation of that saying of Ieremiah The Priests hear rule by their means How could I be true to the Souls of Men in saying less Had T. E. clear'd his Brethren from the imposture He had effectually convicted me of virulency But he is so farr from clearing them in this point though their credit lay at stake that he sneaks off without taking any notice of it as was observed before Should I forwarn a Traveller from coming in such place and tell him that the People there are Thieves and Robbers if they were honest Men or I know nothing to the contrary my fault would be very heinous But if I knew them to be such it would be a breach of Justice and Charity to hide it from the Traveller Alas what I said of the Quakers were not bitter expressions but so many sad and serious truths and spoken out of a Principle of the truest charity and kindness to prevent their running headlong into eternal ruine and destruction But if no such expressions can proceed but from a malevolent crusty waspish and virulent Principle then let me ask my Friend Ellwood whether there is not such a People in the World who use to call Ministers Dumb dogs Hirelings Serpents Baals Priests and what not If he will be pleased to consult the works of His weighty Friend Hubberthorn He may there collect a large Catalogue indeed of expressions truly virulent and bitter Or let me tell him of another whose memory I suppose is much dearer to him I mean Ed. Burroughs who in his Works hath these expressions Reprobate Child of darkness a Stranger to the Life in the Sorcery and Witchcraft Dragon Diviner and many more such like He that had seen no more of T. E's Book than the Conclusion would at the first blush take him for such a gentle sweet and humble Quaker that one would imagine that the Royal Society had been trying some Experiment upon him and that they had taken out the very Splene out of his Side If this be so in truth Those Gentlemen must excuse me if I tell them in plain terms that they have proved themselves no good Artists in that they have left the main matter behind Therefore I shall give you some of his expressions and do you judge whether they be Virulent or no The Author of that book partly through Ignorance but principally through Envy in the first page of his Preface Ay but might the Parishioner have said He told me that I must not be covetous yet of all my acquaintance I know none more Covetous than He He told me I must not be drunk yet have I seen him so often He told me I must live chastly yet He himself was incontinent and so he goes on p. 23. The whole Book shews him big with envie p. 25. Bishop Gauden was as hold and no less blind than himself p 171. His envie and evil nature p. 210. My greedy Adversary p. 286. This Priest like a saucy and unthankful Son p. 279. And when the merciless Priest comes p. 347. To omit divers others in this very conclusion This Mans malevolent Tongue So that I shall not