Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	pray_v	prayer_n	supplication_n	1,875	5	11.3215	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A53364	A discourse of the unlawfulness of praying to saints and angels being a full answer to a letter of Sabran the Jesuite : wherein the practice of the Church of Rome, in praying to saints and angels is plainly proved to be contrary to the doctrine of Christ and the presented authority by him produc'd, to be either forged or impertinent / by Titus Oates, a presbyter of the Church of England.	Oates, Titus, 1649-1705.	1689 (1689)	Wing O33; ESTC R38151	88,775	90

Protect and Secure but saith they will ask the Continuance of that Protection and Security which God was pleased to bestow upon the Church as a Reward of St. Theodore's Sufferings by whose Death the Church might perchance otherwise have sustained some loss But you will say further that St. Gregory prays to St. Theodore to ask for Peace It is true the Bloud of Christ's Martyrs do cry to Heaven see Revel 6. 9 10. And when he had opened the fifth Seal I saw under the Altar the Souls of them that were Slain for the Word of God and for the Testimony which they held and they cryed aloud How long O Lord Holy and True dost thou not judge and avenge our Bloud on them who dwell on the Earth And if he calls for Vengeance upon the Persecutors of the Peace of the Church such a sort of asking St. Theodore might use and for such an Intercession as this St. Gregory might perchance Invocate St. Theodore We find such Invocations as these frequently amongst fanciful Men to Persons to whom they would pay no Worship The Noble Army of God's Martyrs as they do Praise God in Heaven so their Bloud calls for Vengeance upon their Persecutors on Earth Therefore Sir upon the Consideration of the whole Words there is nothing more to be said but that they were a Rhetorical Strein in Honour of the Memory of St. Theodore and not a Prayer to him as an Act of Adoration that he paid to that Saint The Reason that I give is this because that in his Works against Eunomius Lib. 5. he most excellently speaks thus We are taught to understand that whatsoever is Created is a different thing from the Divine Nature and that we are to Adore that Nature only which is Vncreated Whose Character is this that neither at any time began to be or ever shall cease to be Now compare St. Gregory with St. Gregory and you must conclude that there is no Invocation as an Act of Adoration nor Formal Prayer as any Act of Devotion paid to this Saint but as the Psalmist did Invocate the Dragons and Deeps Sun Moon and Stars and as the three Children did call upon the Frost and Snow to magnifie God without any mention of Adoration or Formal Supplication and such an Invocation many fanciful Men at this day use But you are pleased to say that St. Gregory did pray to St. Theodore to get the rest of the Martyrs St. Peter St. Paul and St. John to pray for the several Churches planted by them This plainly sheweth that it was but a Rhetorical Redundancy of Speech of St. Gregory in Memory of that Saint The Cryes of the Martyr's Bloud reacheth to Heaven and is heard by God and his avenging their Bloud upon the Persecutors on Earth secures the Peace of the Church but that St. Gregory did so supplicate St. Theodore for that he believed that the Saints hear our Prayer I cannot gather from his Words beccause that he is so full against giving any Worship unto any but the Uncreated Being so that you may see he intends no Adoration to St. Theodore nor any Prayer to him as if he did believe that St. Theodore did hear him or did make Intercession to God otherwise then his Bloud crying to Heaven for Vengeance Thy Brothers Bloud cryeth to me from the Earth saith God to Cain Gen. 4 10. The Saints Bloud did Cry and St. Theodoret's Bloud did Cry What then were they therefore Mediators of Intercession were they to be Prayed unto and Worshipped as if they could hear our Prayers No St. Gregory doth not Invocate him for those Reasons nor for that End. But those warm Expressions of Holy Men have given great occasion to your Idolatrous Practices their Heats of Zeal were many times beyond the Bounds of their Judgment by which Sir you may observe that we do not depend much upon the Authority of the Fathers we having a more sure Word of Instruction which gives us no Warrant for this way of Worship nor have we any Precedent in the New Testament that ever any Worship to them was ever performed You say that St. Gregory doth explain himself in his Oration on Theodore the Martyr The Christians saith he call on this Martyr as on God's Minister who being Invocated by them he is able to Impetrate for them what Favours he pleases and this you tell us is St. Gregory's Explanation of himself and you tell us that his Prayer was as full and as plain as could be The Church at that time did begin to have great Devotion to the Monuments of their Martyrs not that they did permit any Worship to be paid to them and their great Orators did in their Orations on the Saint whose Memory they kept use a great many Rhetorical Apostrophies which looked like Prayer But I tell you again that they designed no praying to their Saints but did Invocate them as the Ministers of God The Psalmist did so by the Angels the Sun Moon and Stars and it was only in Honorem Sancti not in Adorationem They did use to repeat all their good Words and all their good Works and did speak to their Monuments and their Reliques and is there no difference betwixt Invocation by way of Honour and Invocation in order to Worship The former might perchance be used to St. Theodore but latter not But you press still and say that St. Gregory saith That St. Theodore being Invocated by them is able to obtain what Favours be pleases 'T is true that God doth look upon himself Honoured when we retain a grateful Memory of those who have highly served him and in a most Eminent Manner have suffered for him and many times the word Invocate signifyeth only a calling to and not always a calling upon they spake of their Saints with great Reverence and reported their Works and Services and Sufferings to induce their Hearers to follow their good Examples then according to the custom of the Time they did use to convert their Speeches to the Monuments or Images of these Saints which you call Praying to them which was no more a Prayer than a Poets calling upon his Muse and as for the Intercession you would have us take notice of is no more then the Cry his Bloud makes to Heaven from under the Altar for upon the Account of their Sufferings great Blessings have been bestowed on the Church of God Sanguis Martyrum est Semen Ecclesiae by the Example of their Constancy many have been brought to the Faith and by their Eminent Holiness many have enter'd into so strickt a Course of Life that they have been of great Use in the Church of God and therefore these Fathers did mention the Names of these Martyrs and did as it were speak to them that they might engage their People to follow their good Examples so that with them they might be made partakers of Bliss and Happiness This is all that I can apprehend from St. Gregory

my Protestant Brethren in discovering what those Hellish Popish Conspirators were doing against our Religion Lives and Liberties and of their Villanous Firing the City of London and Borough of Southwark Your eyes have seen enough and would have seen more had not Almighty God put a stop to their Career by confounding their Councels and defeating theirwicked purposes against us I will therefore say no more but shall ever stand by that Truth which I have delivered and will not hide one Iota of what remains behind undiscovered And I have taken care of that though it should please God that my Enemies should by any indirect course take away my Life and I shall always approve my self an honest man. and at present remain November 1. 1688. Your Brother and Servant in the King's Bench Prison for the Testimony of a Good Conscience TITVS OATES AN ANSWER TO SABRAN the Jesuit SHEWING The Unlawfulness of Praying TO Saints and Angels SIR I Perceive you are very earnest in the defence of a great Point much controverted between the Divines of the Reformed Churches and the Church of Rome viz. The Doctrine of Praying to Saints and Angels a Doctrine exploded by the Protestants and as zealously defended by those of your Communion And because the unknown Minister hath not as you would make the World believe dealt ingenuously with you you take occasion to fall upon Mr. Needham for Licensing those Replies made to your Sermon in which you were pleased to defend that Doctrine so much opposed by us of the Reformed Religion I will not go about to use any unhandsome Reflection upon you or any of your Communion for any point of Religion which I am satisfied in my Conscience to be contrary to the Doctrine of God our Saviour Amongst the many Errours the Church of Rome doth hold and maintain I humbly conceive this to be one and an Errour tending highly to the overthrowing of the Mediation of Christ the High-Priest and Apostle of our Profession Therefore the Point that I shall lay down is this That your Practice of Praying to Angels and Saints departed this Life is contrary to the Doctrine of Christ and abominable in the sight of God. I shall not Sir trouble you at present with those many Reasons those of our Church and Communion have offered to justifie this Assertion of mine therefore I shall only tie my self up to these few First Our Divines have rejected the Doctrine of Praying to Saints and Angels and look upon it as a Doctrine contrary to the Doctrine of Christ and abominable in the sight of God because it hath no Warrant from the Word of God. This Sir is acknowledged by the most Learned of your Communion Bannesius saith Orationes ad Sanctos faciendos neque expresse neque involute Sanctae Literae docent 2 Qu. 1 Artic. 10. Lib. 1. Which in plain English is this That it is not taught in the Holy Scripture neither expresly nor covertly that Prayers are to be made to Saints Bellarmine de Beat. Sanct. cap. 19. saith plainly It was not the manner under the Old Testament to say Holy Abraham pray for us for which he gives several Reasons as that the Fathers were then shut up in Prison and did not see God. So that by the confession of that Learned Doctor it was no Practice of those that lived under the Ministry of Moses his Law. Salmeron in 1 Tim. 2. saith the same and withal adds That there is nothing expressed in all the Gospels or Epistles of the Apostles touching the matter And withal he saith It would have been hard to enjoyn such a thing upon the Jews and the Gentiles would have thought that many Gods were put upon them instead of the many Gods they had forsaken His own words Sir are these Durum eratie Judaeis percipere Gentibus daretur occasio putandi multos sibi Deos c. Therefore be pleased to observe that it was the Practice of the Church of God to require Christians when they did labour under any Distemper whether of Body or Mind to have recourse to the Prayers of living Saints and were taught that the Prayers of such were prevalent and if the Prayers to Saints supposed to be in Heaven were a Doctrine according to truth why were they not then order'd to apply themselves to the Patriarchs and Prophets to the Blessed Virgin to St. Stephen and St. James and other more early Martyrs of the Church whose Prayers by your common received Opinion in your Church are highly meritorious and far more prevailing But Sir you see these great Doctors of your Church and men of great Reading confess that there are not the least foot-steps in the Scripture for this Practice as also Suarez Tom. 2. in disput Thes 42. Sect. 1. Eccius in Enchyrid suo But suppose Sir that these Great Men had not been so ingenuous as to confess yet give me leave to tell you that it is not possible for you to find the least intimation of any Warrant for this Practice which is apparent if you will but consider that in the Book of God there is neither one Precept from our Lord nor one Precedent to justifie such a Worship Now if you can produce no Command from God nor Example from any of the Saints of God in the time of the Apostles you cannot expect to gain one Soul that hath the least consideration to the belief of that Proposition of the Lawfulness of Praying to Saints and Angels which you so fiercely maintain If you have a Warrant from God's Word then it will lie upon you first to produce the Command then you must produce the Promise that the complying with that Commandment shall be acceptable for there is not one Command enjoyned us in the New Testament but hath its peculiar Promise and you must also produce a Threat if this Command be not obeyed Then secondly shew but where and when the holy Apostles in their day or any Christian under their immediate Ministry did ever practise Praying to Saints and Angels and you shall be my great Oracle in Controversies of Religion otherwise you must give me leave not to believe Father Sabran's Ipse Dixit in this case Sir give me leave to put you in mind that the Holy Scripture every-where makes God to be the only Object of Prayer and Invocation How many hundred Petitions or Prayers are upon Record there and not one of them put up to any other When our Lord taught his Disciples and us in them to pray he directs them to say Our Father which art in Heaven The Scripture often expresseth this Duty by the term of Praying without any mention of the Object When you pray use not vain Repetitions When thou prayest enter into thy Closet And hereby it is intimated that Prayer in matter of Worship can signifie nothing else but Praying to God. It is not Prayer if it be directed to any other From all which I must necessarily conclude that your Practice

dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea even there shall thy hand lead me and thy right hand shall uphold me Now Sir if God be in Heaven Earth Sea Hell and fills all Places with his Presence this shews him an Omnipresent Being Now produce as much of the Mother of Jesus or of any of the Saints and Angels and we will joyn with you in making our Addresses to them but this cannot be said of any Saint or Angel whatsoever therefore How can they hear How can they help And if they can neither hear nor help what reason have we to pray unto them 2. As they are not Omnipresent so they are not Omniscient for suppose they could hear what Men do or speak yet they cannot understand what they think if we could imagine that they could hear us what our Mouths do utter yet we cannot imagine that they know the Secrets of the Heart Now Sir the greatest part of our private Devotions are mental they are conceptus Animi such as are conceived in our Hearts and Minds nay Sir let me tell you that our most acceptable Prayers many times consist of those Sighs and Groans which cannot be utter'd and if you will make the Saints and Angels privy to these it is to give that to them which is only due to God see what Solomon saith the 2 Chron. 6. 30. Thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men there was no Man nor no number of Men but will say that such Knowledge was too painful and too wonderful for them in a word Sir you well know that to search and try the Heart is an incommunicable property and perfection of Almighty God. It hath been Sir a Question among the Divines of your Church Whether the Saints in Heaven have any knowledge at all of our Human Actions and Affairs on Earth but I think the Scriptures are as full as may be to the contrary viz. That they have no knowledge of our Affairs or Actions here upon Earth see Isai 63. 16. Doubtless thou art our Father though Abraham be ignorant of us and Israel acknowledge us not and see the 22 Kings 20. Thine eyes shall not see all the evil that I will bring upon this place for I will gather thee to thy Fathers and thou shalt be gather'd in peace this was a Promise made unto Josiah so take notice of Job who tells you that ye know not what is done after their death Their sons may come to honour and they know it not and they are brought low and they perceive it not of them From all which you may easily conclude that there can be no Man whether good or bad that can tell any thing of earthly Transactions after they are departed this Life This I may assert with the greatest assurance that the Saints have no such knowledge as is necessary in this case they can neither know nor understand the Prayers that Men offer up to them nor which is also highly necessary with what Mind they offer their Prayers whether in sincerity or in hypocrisie I pray call to mind what St. Augustine saith Mortui nesciunt etiam Sancti quid Agant Vivi etiam eorum filii This was the Opinion of that Great and Learned Doctor and Bishop of the Church of God and it is so plain a Truth that whatsoever shall be brought in to say in contradiction to it it will be scarce received for a Catholick Verity in the Church of God. But Sir how can we expect any satisfaction from you when your Divines are to this day divided about that matter and can neither satisfie themselves nor one another how the Glorified Saints come to have knowledge of our Supplications and Prayers you know that many nice and curious Questions have been argued in our Schools amongst many Learned Men for at least Six Hundred Years Pro and Con without any satisfactory Determination as Gratian Gloss in 13. Qu. de Mortuis and St. Augustine in his Tract De cura pro Mortuis they have all left the matter in doubt As whether the Souls of those to whom they Pray be present or absent If they be present whether they be present actually or virtually If they be absent and have Information from others then whether it be from the Angels or from God himself and if it be from God then whether it be by particular Revelation from him or by the Beatifical Vision of him Thus Sir you know it hath been inquired into and debated amongst your own Doctors one hath determined one way and another hath determined another way and there is not yet to this day any Catholick Determination made of any of those Questions 't is true they all agree that they are made acquainted with the Prayers or else in vain they would be Invocated but how they come by this knowledge Non convenit inter Omnes saith your Pinello all are not agreed about it Some of your Divines that have been very fanciful have been taken with the Notion of a Looking-glass in the Face of God wherein those blessed Spirits have an exact and full view of all things past present and to come the Notion is pleasant and 't is pity you have not had the good fortune to beget a firm belief amongst those of your own Church of this Point for since this Looking-glass was broken in pieces even in your own Church there hath been some of your own Doctors who could see nothing in it but the Folly and Rashness of those who first invented it without any Warrant from the Word of God Cajetan Gabriel Durandus Scotus Occam and many other great Names think themselves no whit obliged to this imaginary Glass for they were then satisfied of the vanity of that Imagination nor will the Text In thy light we shall see light nor will that Saying Qui videt videntem omnia is Videt omnia He seeth all things that seeth him who seeth all things establish the belief of it For Sir if it were so he that sees God seeth whatsoever is in God and whatsoever God seeth Then the Angels that always behold his Face and look up to this Glass would have never stooped down to pry as they did into the Mysteries of the Gospel and needed not be informed by the Church about the manifold Wisdom of God then would they not be to seek concerning any future Events no nor be ignorant of the Day and Hour of the last Judgment I shall conclude this with the Saying of St. Augustine in his Discourse De cura pro Mortuis If saith that Father so great and famous Patriarchs as Abraham and Jacob did not understand how the World went with their Posterity how then can it be that the Dead should at all take Notice of the Living or intermeddle with assisting them That is they neither know their Wants nor can they give them any assistance Why then we should make our Prayers to them I hope Sir you will give a Reason for

conclude that if your Doctors are in the right your Ambrose and your Bembus and your Ambrosius Catharinus your Cusanus if they be in the right and your Offices the which I have by me are in the right then the Virgin Mary and the rest of the Saints are Mediators of Salvation as well as Jesus Christ and upon that consideration you must part with your fond distinction between being a Mediator of Salvation and of Intercession Now if it be true that none ever arrived to that Priesthood but Christ himself who was called of God as was Aaron Heb. 5. 7. and he took not the Office upon him till God did so call him then how dare you thrust this Office upon them which is only due to Jesus Christ And because he is the Great High-Priest and Apostle of our Profession the Angels of God are commanded to worship him And till you prove the Saints to be such you must pardon us we will pay them no Worship we do praise God for them but we will not pray to them Sir I know you make a great account of the Virgin Mary upon the consideration that she was the Mother of our Lord It was a great Honour and Grace that God Almighty conferred upon her and therefore you run into those extravagant ways of worshipping her Truly I with very good assurance do affirm that it is a greater Honour to be a Child of God than to be the Mother of Jesus Christ Observe what St. Augustine saith Beatior ergo Maria fuit percipiendo fidem Christi quam concipiendo carnem Christi Materna propinquitas nihil Mariae profuisset nisi felicius Christum Corde quam Carne Gestassit Mary was more blessed in that she received the Faith of Christ than that she conceived the Flesh of Christ Motherly kindness could have done Mary no good unless she had born Christ more blessedly in her heart than she bear him in her flesh Aug. de Sancta Virginitate cap. 3. Again he saith Mater mea quam appellastis foelicem unde foelix est quia verbum Dei custodivit non quia in illa verbum caro factum est My Mother whom ye have called blessed therefore is blessed because she hath kept the Word of God not because the Word in her was made Flesh Aug. in Joh. Tract 10. To the words of this holy Doctor give me leave to joyn the words of Christ himself in Luke 11. 27 28. And it came to pass as he spake these things that is while he preached to the people a certain woman of the company lift up her voice and said unto him Blessed is the womb that bear thee and the paps which thou hast sucked But he said Yea rather blessed are they that hear the Word of God and keep it I pray you to observe the words of Epiphanius Lib. 3. Haeres 79. con Collyridianos Christus dixit quid mihi tibi est mulier nondum venit hora mea quò non putarent aliquis magnis eximium esse Sanctam Virginem mulierem eam appellavit voluti prophetans quae essent futura interra sectarum Haereseon genera ut ne aliqui nimium admirari Sanctam in hanc Haeresim ejusque deliramenta delebantur est enim Ludibrium tota Res Anicularum fabula ut ita dicam tota Haeresis tractatio Christ saith unto his Mother Woman what have I to do with thee my hour is not yet come Lest any man should think the Virgin Mary was of greater Excellency he called her Woman as it were prophesying of the kinds of Sects and Heresies that were to come into the World lest any man having too great an Opinion of that holy Saint should fall into the Heresie and the Dotage of the same for indeed the whole matter is but a Mockery and Old Wives Tale and truly to say nothing else but the handling of an Heresie You see St. Epiphanius his Judgment of the Worship that is due to the Virgin Mary We do not find him to call her Redemptrix or Mediatrix he takes no notice at all of that but in plain words tells you that she is not to be worshipped Now if she had been in any sence a Mediator she would have had some title to be worshipped and adored In short Sir you can never prove her in any case whatever to be a Mediator Then do you not do the greatest affront and contempt to Jesus Christ by applying your selves to her as a Mediator or to any other Saint whatsoever Do you not in your Offices pray to them all that they through their merits would obtain for you life everlasting But Sir to be plain with you it is necessary that you consider that there are as the effects of Christ's death for us three great Products which are the Rule and Measure of our Prayers and of our Confidence 1. Christ's Merits 2. His Satisfaction And 3. His Intercession By these three we come boldly to the Throne of Grace and pray to God through Jesus Christ But if we pray to God through the Saints too and rely upon their Merits Satisfaction and Intercession do we not make them equal to Christ in the great Office of his Priesthood You know very well that this is the publick avowed Practice of the Church of Rome to rely upon the Saints Intercession to be made valid by the Merits of the Saints together with their Satisfaction for if by the shedding of their Bloud for the Church hey purchased Salvation for the Church then by shedding their Bloud for the Church they made satisfaction for the sins of the Church So that you make the Virgin Mary and the Saints equal if not superiour to Christ in the great Work of obtaining Salvation for us Give me leave Sir to put you in mind of some of your Prayers that have been used and whose use still continues in your Church In the first place take notice of a Prayer to one Etheldred an English Saint in these words Look O most gracious Virgin upon our Troubles which we most deservedly sustain and by the Merits and Intercession of thy Holiness both appease the Anger of the Judge whom we have offended and obtain that Pardon which we have not deserved Sacrum Breviary fol. 100. In the Office of the Hours as it is used at Rome Omnes Sancti Sanctae Dei subvenite mihi ut per merita vestra per venire valeam ad eternae beatitudinis Patriam There is another Prayer in the Roman Breviary directed to St. Jude in English it is thus We pray thee O St. Jude the Apostle that by thy Merits thou wouldest drive me from the custom of my sins and snatch me from the power of the Devil and advance me to thy invisible power I pray consider another Prayer in your Offices for the Sunday before the Ascension of our Lord made to St. Mary Magdalen in these words O Mary Magdalen hear our Prayers which are full of Praises

and most clemently reconcile this Company unto Christ that the Fountain of Supream Piety who cleansed thee from thy sins giving pardon may cleanse us who are his Servants and thine But above all see that excellent Prayer to St. Becket whose Bloud ye have supposed to be as soveraign as the Bloud of the Son of God. 'T is not enough to pray as you do that by his Merits and Prayers you may be deliver'd from Vice to Virtue and from the Prison to the Kingdom this you hope for from the more ordinary Saints but as for St. Thomas of Canterbury you pray That by his Bloud you may climb to Heaven as he hath done before you Now do you judge in your own Conscience Whether this and all your Saints be not made equal to Christ and whether you do not make them Mediators of Salvation as well as Intercession And more than all this one of your own Doctors tells us That the Intercession of the Saints is more available than the Intercession of Christ and that as Christ wrought greater Miracles by his Saints than by himself so oftentimes he sheweth the force of their Intercession more than his own This Doctor of yours put a Question Whether it is better to pray to God through Christ alone or thro' the Saints which Question he determineth That it was better to pray to God through the Saints So that by the Doctrine of your Learned men you may nay you ought to go to God through the Merits Satisfaction and Intercession of the Saints so that there is nothing remaining of the Honour due to Christ our Saviour and our Confidence in Him but the same in every kind is by your Church imputed to the Saints therefore the Being and Oeconomy of Christianity is destroyed by these Prayers and the People are not and cannot be good Christians in these Devotions and what hopes are laid up for them who Repent to no purpose and pray with derogation to Christ's Honour is matter of deepest consideration Therefore our Church will take care that her Members may not be seduced with little Tricks and Artifices of useless and laborious Distinctions and Protestations against Evidence of Fact. Therefore Sir you ought with Fear and Trembling to consider what God said by the Prophet My people have done two great evils they have forsaken me the living fountain that is the strong and living God and have digged to themselves cisterus that is little phantastick helps that hold no water that give no refreshment Jer. 2. 13. Or as St. Paul expresseth it They worship and invocate the Creature 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beside the Creator so the word properly signifies and so it is used by the Apostle in other places 1 Cor. 3. 11. and Gal. 1. 8. But to conclude this Head I beseech you Sir to remember the words of St. Augustine Tutius jucundius loquar ad meum Jesum quam ad aliquam Sanctorum Spirituum Dei I can speak more safely and more cheerfully to my Jesus than to any of the Saints and Spirits of God Lib. 1. Cap. 2. De Visitatione Infirmorum For that Holy Father knew that Jesus was the only Mediator and it was highly tending to the prejudice of Christ's Priesthood who only ever lives to make Intercession for us to pray to any of the Saints Fourthly You know Sir that Christians are every-where exhorted to flee from Idolatry and to keep themselves from Idols for this I shall not need to use many Arguments to satisfie you or any man therefore we cannot consent to your Practice of Praying to Saints and Angels because it is Idolatry I confess this is and hath been a Charge which none of your Communion could bear but have been and are still highly offended at it Any man saith a Doctor of your Church of common Reason would think it as easie to prove the Snow to be black as so innocent a Practice to be Idolatry But Sir I humbly conceive that Learned Person may be mistaken for it is agreed by both the Romish Doctors and those of the Reformed Religion That Idolatry in the proper notion of it is a giving that Worship and Service to the Creature which is due only to God yea though men worship God yet if they worship the Creature also they are Idolaters The holy Apostle reproves those Rom. 1. 25. that worshipped the Creature besides the Creator And this was the Idolatry of those whom the King of Assyria sent to inhabit Samaria The Text saith They feared the Lord and served other or their own Gods 2 King. 17. 33. Now that you worship Saints and Angels as well as Almighty God is notorious enough for you profess and practise it and is not that a worshipping the Creature besides the Creator And if to worship the Creature besides the Creator be Idolatry how shall you be excused from the just Charge of Idolatry The distinction that you think to help your selves out withal is that of Latria and Dulia which I think is as ill applied as ever any distinction was I confess I am no Proficient in the Hebrew but those that are Masters of that Tongue tell us there is but one word in the Hebrew for Dulia and Latria but that skill I have in the Greek assures me that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are indifferently taken in the Old and New Testament both for one and the same thing and both applied to God the former to him as he is Lord and the latter as he is God as St. Augustine saith that first made the distinction and therefore as I said before I repeat it to you again it was neither made by him nor used by him to justifie any such Practice as you maintain in your Church But there is another distinction of yours much to the same purpose that is of Superiour and Absolute Worship which you say is only due to God and Inferiour and Relative Worship which is applicable to the Creature Now Sir if by Inferiour and Relative Worship you mean a Religious Worship as you must do if you will justifie your own Doctrine then give me leave to tell you that you have no ground for this distinction in all the Word of God and had the Arians found out such a distinction by its help they might have destroyed the force of the Apostle's Argument whereby he proves the Deity of Christ because the Angels of God are enjoyned to worship him Heb. 1. 6. Psal 97. 7. To this they might readily have replied that the Text intends a Religious Worship of an Inferiour degree such as may be given to the most excellent Creature But Sir you know that shift was not found out then and therefore they were not able to give any answer but were necessitated to silence You must either prove that this distinction is grounded on the Word of God or you must quit your distinction And if you quit that then it roundly follows that

do not think you lie under any such Obligation but you are bound to inform the Abused and to reprove this notorious Idolatry as all the Ministers of Christ and Stewards of the Mysteries of God do in the Reformed Churches and declare against such Abominations I confess the Tridentine Chapter very zealonsly forbids all Superstitions but wisely forbears to tells the World what is Superstition and what is not So that the Members of your Church still go on in those Superstitions and Idolatrous Practices Nay every Nation hath its Saint as England hath St. George Scotland St. Andrew Ireland St. Patrick Wales St. David Spain St. James France St. Dennis nay every City every Family almost every House and every devout Person chuseth his particular Saint whose Altars they more devoutly frequent whose Images they more Religiously Worship to whose Relicks they more readily go in Pilgrimage to whose Honour they say more Pater Nosters and Ave Maria's whose Festivals they more solemnly observe spoyling their Prayers by their Confidence in unknown Persons living in an unknown Condition diminishing that Worship they owe to God and that Honour they owe to our Lord Jesus Christ and that Affiance they ought to have in God through Christ and pay it to them who cannot save Give me leave to tell you that the number of your Saints are so many that your People can scarce tell which Saint to turn himself to first and if you will take the Authority of a Writer of your own Church you will find that your Church have been so far from correcting of the Superstition and Idolatry of the Common People and the abused Zealots of your Communion for Isuardus a French Monk diligently searching out the number of Saints found that in every day in the year there are more than three hundred Saints to be served such a number of Saints have the Bishops of Rome brought into the Church of their own Authority whom they have Sainted partly for Favour and partly for Money and partly of blind Zeal and partly for satisfying other Mens corrupt Affections these I say must be Worshipped and Prayed unto so far are you from reproving Idolatry that you incourage and promote it Another saith That from the time the Bishops of Rome began first to Canonize and make Saints unto the time of John the two and twentieth Bishop of Rome there were Canonized five thousand five hundred fifty five Saints this I have from the Author Fasciculus Temporum Therefore Sir you must confess the Extravagancy of those who have had the Guardianship of the Church It is not the fault of the People only running wilfully into such Idolatrous Practices but it is the Practice of your Church warranted and taught by some of her Guides Now whereas your Divines have pleaded That the Worship that the Pagans give to their Gods was Idolatry because they were the Souls of wicked Men and Devils and that your Worship that you pay to Saints and Angels cannot be Idolatry because they are such This I humbly conceive to be a great Mistake for though there be a disparity because the Idolatry of the Pagan World did not lie in the ill choice they made of their Daemons they Worshipped but in giving that Religious Worship to a Creature which was due only to the Creator Let him be a good or a bad Angel a just or a wicked Person since he is but a Creature 't is Idolatry to offer Religious Worship or to Invocate him so that if it be Idolatry to Worship ill Men or Devils because they are Creatures then it is Idolatry to Worship good Men or Angels because they are Creatures likewise Before I conclude this Head let me tell you the Opinion of one of your Church upon this matter his Words are these Multi Christiani in re bona plerumque peccant quod Divos Divas que non alitur Venerantur quam Deum nec video in multis quid sit discrimen inter eorum Opinionem de Sanctis id quod Gentiles putabant de Diis suis Ludvi Not. in Aug. De Civit. Dei Lib. 3. Cap. 27. Edit Anno 1596. Many Christians do for the most part transgress in a good thing that they Worship Hee-Saints and Shee-Saints no otherwise than they Worship God nor do I see in many things wherein their Opinion of the Saints do differ from that which the Heathens had of their Gods. I think no Protestant could have said more Sir Let me ask you Was it not Idolatry in the Jews to burn Incense to the Queen of Heaven And was not God highly provoked at it What difference is there betwixt burning Incense to her whom you call the Queen of Heaven and the Jews burning Incense to the Queen of Heaven which is termed Idolatry Is not this your Practice to this day And if the Jews were guilty of Idolatry for that Worship how can you expect to clear your selves from the same Charge If they Worshipped that which was not and therefore were guilty of Idolatry I pray what is your Queen of Heaven when was she made so and by whom What Text can you bring to prove any such thing Did God ever say to the Virgin Mary whom you call Queen of Heaven Sit thou at my right hand Or did he say Let all the Angels of God Worship Her If he did produce your Text and you will do much and till then you will not easily perswade those of our Church either to joyn with you in any Worship to the Virgin or quit you from the Charge of Idolatry I will leave these to your Consideration and so conclude this Head. Fifthly As your Practice of Praying to Saints and Angels is the vilest Idolatry so it is the greatest Blasphemy and from hence we conclude it to be an unreasonable Service and an Abomination in the sight of God. To prove this Sir I will take notice of some of those Prayers to the Saints used in your Offices and shew how you attribute that to them which only belongs to the great God that made the Heavens and the Earth You must know Sir that God hath several Attributes that are incommunicable and to give these to any Creature whatever must be the highest Blasphemy against God. The Council of Trent I confess is more modest than some of your private Doctors but blasphemous enough in its Determination C. Trid. Sess 9. Sanctis una cum Christo Regnantibus Orationes pro Haminibus offerentibus bonum atque utile est supplicare eos Invocare ob Beneficia a Deo Impetranda per filium ejus Jesum Christum qui solus noster Redemptor Salvator est ad eorum Orationes opem Auxiliumque Confugere That is the Saints Reigning with Christ and offering their Prayers for Men it is good and profitable humbly to Invocate them and that we may obtain benefits of God through Jesus Christ our Lord who is our only Redeemer and Saviour to have recourse to

divales Sacras Jussiones de veniendo aut mittendo ad Concilium recepit The Authority of the Council doth not so depend upon him by whom it was Summoned so that unless it be Summoned by the Pope it can be no Council for so we shall avoid the first eight General Councils for we read they were Summoned by the Emperour and not by Popes and the Pope received the Emperour's Majesty's Commandment to come or send to Councils as other Patriarchs did And your own Writers have owned that the Council of Ephesus which was the third General Council was held under Theodosius the younger and by his Order that Holy Father did preside and not from any Legantine Authority he received from Pope Coelestine Here you fail in this particular and therefore we have just cause to question the whole But this shall suffice as to the first Enquiry 2. I pray how do you prove that Cyril spake this in the Name of the whole Council For if that the whole Council was not for Praying to the Saints and Angels he could not be said to speak in their Names Then how could he in their Names make such an Address to the Virgin without being deputed by them If it had been said by you that he did in the Name of Theodosius the Emperour make this Prayer you had said something for Praying to Saints was then scarce heard of in the Church of God. I confess toward the latter part of the fourth Century it began to creep into the Church but was questioned again by the Council of Carthage and the Council of Laodicea both which Councils determined against the Invocation of Saints and Angels In the 35 Canon of the Council of Laodicea it was thus determined That Christians ought not to leave the Church of God and go and call upon Angels and make Meetings which are things forbidden Let him be accursed because he hath forsaken the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God and applied himself to Idolatry Theodoret in his Exposition upon the Colossians doth twice mention this Canon and declare the Sence of it upon Col. 3. 17. The Apostle saith he commandeth us to adorn our Words and Deeds with the Commemoration of our Lord Jesus Christ and to send up our Thanksgiving unto God the Father by him and not by Angels The Synod of Laodicea following also this Rule and desiring to heal this old Disease viz. Angel-Worship made a Law That they should not Pray unto Angels nor forsake our Lord Jesus Christ And on Col. 2. he adds That this Vice continued long in Phrygia and Pisidia for which cause the Synod assembled at Laodicea the chief City of Phrygia and forbad them by a Law to Pray unto Angels Can it then be supposed that the whole Council of Ephesus should be agreed in the Point of Praying to Saints and Angels Since both these Councils had determin'd against it how then could St. Cyril do this in the Name of the whole Council For it is well known that there was yet never any General Council that had determin'd for it 3. Let us know Sir how you prove that ever St. Cyril did speak those Words or make such a formal Prayer as you pretend he made I have given myself the trouble of Reading the Council of Ephesus but I find nothing at all of the business and therefore you would do well to examine that Council once more and let us have the Prayer in Greek without an c. But I will tell you I have great reason to suspect the truth of it because I perceive you take it upon the credit of Baronius who was one of your own Writers and therefore worthily suspect it for certainly it was his design in all his History to promote the Doctrine and Interest of the Church and See of Rome If you would shew us St. Cyril's Speech it would go a great way further as to its reputation Yet Sir consider your Divines have falsified that Council of Ephesus and have represented that Council to have determin'd against administring the Communion in both Kinds which is a meer falshood because the Cup was not denyed to the Laity for several hundred years after But if it were taken away why was there no Decree made thereupon that is extant in that Council nor any mention of by any Learned Man within a great time after and those that laid first that Doctrine upon the whole Council might as easily make a Speech for St. Cyril and a Prayer for him too to the Virgin Mary the better to give countenance to that way of Worship The next proof you bring sorth is a Prayer of St. Gregory Nyssen unto St. Theodore in these words Martyr use the liberty you enjoy speak for your Fellow-Servant you have conquer'd the World but you have not forgotten the Passions and Necessities our human Condition is liable unto Ask for Peace that those Publick Meetings may continue that the enraged and wicked Barbarians may not plunder and destroy our Churches and Altars that no impious Man tread the Holy Thing under-foot for we that have been untouched and alive do own ourselves obliged to you for that Blessing and will ask your Protection and Security for the future No doubt but St. Theodere might be a Worthy Saint and Martyr of Christ to whom this St. Gregory might use a Rhetorical Apostrophe tho he were not present in Person yet he might be present by his Picture or some Monument that was set up in the Honour of so great a Saint But Sir Remember the Psalmist He calls upon Angels to Praise God and all the Hosts of Heaven the Sun the Moon and all the Stars of Light he calls upon Dragons and all Deeps he calls upon the Fire Haile Snow and Vapour to Praise God not that the Fire did hear him or the Sun Moon and Stars or Mountains Hills fruitful Trees or Cedars did hear him yet here was Invocation but answer me plainly Were these Words spoken by way of Adoration Was this a Formal Prayer to St. Theodore or only an acknowledgment only that God for the Sake of that Saint had preserved the Church You know that God did for the Sake of Abraham shew many favours to the People Israel and for the Sake of St. Paul a whole Ships Company were preserved as you may see in Acts 27. 24. Fear not Paul thou must be brought before Caesar and so God hath given thee all them that Sail with thee as in the same Sence that the People that Sailed with Paul were obliged to Paul for their Preservation In the same Sence doth this Holy Gregory tell St. Theodore that those who had escaped the Cruelties of the Barbarians and were alive they were obliged to him for that Mercy but you will say that St. Gregory saith That we own our selves obliged to you for this Preservation and we will ask your Protection for the future That is the same Protection he doth not pray to St. Theodore to

Nyssen Another Proof you produce is St. Gregory Nazianzen who you bring in praying to St. Basil in these Words O Sacred and Divine Man look down upon us from Heaven and either by your Prayers mortifie that Sting of the Flesh which God hath given us for our Instruction or move us to bare it with a couragious Mind and direct our whole Life to that which is most fitting and when we part out of this Life receive us there in your Tabernacles Sir I have read over the Life of Nazianzen written by Gregorius Presbyter and he tells us that Nazianzen came to Caesaria a great while after St. Basu's Death and it is like he might Visit St. Basil's Grave but I do not remember any Prayer he made to St. Basil and since Gregorius Presbyter maketh no mention of it who wrote his Life and no mention being made of it by Socrates and Sozomen nor of St. Gregory Nyssen nor Gregory Nazianzen himself and other old Writers of approved Credit that also wrote St. Basil's Life mention that Prayer made to St. Basil by St. Gregory Nazianzen Till you give me some Instructions where to find this Prayer you must excuse me from believing any thing of the Matter I partly guess at your Authour who if well considered will give you no manner of Reputation The next Proof is a Prayer of St. Maximus to St. Agnes which I shall not give my self the trouble of answering till you tell me where you find that Prayer and then I shall be in a better condition to make a Reply to it I yet never met with any such Prayer in my Reading I would have you tell where in your Books you meet with it I will then tell my Thoughts of it till then I shall forbear any Reply The next Proof you produce is Father Hillary of Arles his Prayer to St. Honoratus To this Hillary I must confess I am wholly a Stranger but I have considered St. Hillary Bishop of Poicters and he knoweth nothing of the business and therefore I pray tell us who this St. Hillary of Arles was but the Saint Hillary that I know was Bishop of Poicters and was a married Bishop and did Learnedly write of the Holy Trinity I have both Fathers and Councils by me and I have read some things of this St. Hillary but he mentions nothing of praying to St. Honoratus I pray Sir tell me whether there were two St. Hillaries or no if not then let me tell you that I cannot find it till I have some directions from you and you must excuse me from giving any Credit to it for I doubt you depend upon an Author that will have little or no Credit for the Prayer as you call it smells so much of your Romish Forgery that I cannot well mention without great Indignation for St. Hillary the said Bishop of Poicters lived and flourished presently after St. Athanasius and then praying to Saints was not in fashion In the latter part of the fourth Century some of the Fathers were very full of their Rhetorical Apostrophies and did call upon their Saints but not pray their Speeches many times were directed to them that Men might follow their good Example having had an Account of their Lives but no Prayer at all intended to them Sir in your Epistle to the English Peer you make mention of one Amphilochius as a great Defender of the Lawfulness of Praying to Saints but in your Letter to Mr. Needham are pleased to take no notice of him therefore give me leave to tell you that it is true there was an Amphilochius that did maintain and defend that Doctrine but he is a new Amphilochius of your Churches setting up and not the true Amphilochius and your Prayers of St. Gregory Nazianzen to St. Basil and your Prayers of St. Gregory Nyssen to St. Theodore and your Prayers of Nectarius Patriarch of Constantinople to St. Theodore are all taken out of your Amphilochius the falseness of that Author shall be made appear by and by him you make a Writer of St. Basu's Life and what not We confess there was Amphilochius that was of Iconium but not Bishop of Iconium but Archbishop of Layconia he was a stout godly and worthy Bishop that did write against the Messalian Heretiques whom he couragiously suppressed and joyned with Flavianus Bishop of Antioch and drove them out of their Diocesses and in the Assistance of these Holy Prelates one Laetoius who was a Zealous Man came and burned up their Monasteries or as Theodoret termeth it their Den of Thieves Lib. 4. c. 11. But your Amphilochius who as your Divines pretend was Bishop of Iconium and if we may believe your Church-men was Consecrated by Angels from Heaven He pretends to write St. Basil's Life and was as yours say an Ancient Father and the Credit this Amphilochius hath did incourage you to make use of his Name and Authority in your Epistle to the English Peer for a Proof of the warrantableness of the Doctrine of praying to Saints as it is now practised in your Church I confess the Names of the Ancient Fathers of the Church are worthy of great Honour The Life of St. Basil was written and published by several worthy Fathers as by St. Gregorius Nyssenus and by his dear Friend St. Gregory Nazianzen by Gregorius Presbyter by Socrates and by Theodoret by Sozomen and Nicephorus and St. Chrysostom hath some Remarks of his Life in his Works notwithstanding of late years he that wrote Vitas Patrum and Jacobus de Voragine and Vincentius in speculo who seem to intitle this Amphilochius to be a great Writer of St. Bazil's life and therefore from him you have the prayer St. Gregory Nazianzen is supposed to have made to St. Bazil The reason of my suspition is because I cannot find this Prayer as I observed to you in any of the Works of those ancient Writers before-mentioned If you have I pray deal so ingeniously with us as to tell us But in the mean time to let you understand of what Credit your Amphilochus is I pray see how he hath dealt with St. Bazil in his pretended writing his Life and by that you may see what stress may be laid upon his Authority as to the controversie now in hand We will therefore compare your Amphilochius with Socrates Sozomen Gregory Nazianzen and Gregory Nyssen and other Ancient Fathers of undoubted Reputation in the world that did on purpose write the life of St. Bazil but not one syllable as ever I could see of that Prayer Socrates and Zozomen do say that Bazil in his Youth was under the Education of Libanius and was his Scholar but your Amphilochius saith that he was Companion and School-fellow to Libanius Socr. l. 4. c. 21. Sozomen l. 6. c. 17. Nazianzen and Gregorius Presbyter say that Basil living some time at Caesaria was well acquainted with Eusebius the Bishop of that place before he went into Pontus Your Amphilochius saith that at his return

imply Prayer but an Acknowledgement and the word here is sometimes taken for to own as that in Zach. 13. 9. So that the Holy Father if he did use those words he neither intended any Adoration to be paid to these Saints but only an Acknowledgment of their Graces and great Holiness and Faith in their Services and Sufferings for Christ and these were owned as Honourers of those Saints As for the Intercession there mentioned I never Read of any but that of their Blood which from under the Altar cryeth to Heaven but that any Man was justified or accepted or had a promise of being accepted but he that came to God in the Name of Christ alone I never read or heard of from the Scriptures In a word the Prayer as you call it is a muddy sort of business and scarce Sence as you have represented it You bring in Gregory the Great affirming that greater Miracles are often wrought where the Saints Bodies are not that our Mind being fixed upon God our Faith may have a greater Merit for as much as we know they repose not there and yet believe that they fail not to hear and grant our Requests I confess it is true that where the Primitive Christians did more trust in God that greater Miracles were wrought then by the Bodies of the Saints and those that have fixed their Minds upon God have received Eminent Favours from God as a Reward of their Faith But what of all this what have you to say to St. Gregory He is here brought in by you but I pray for what He doth indeed tell you that greater Miracles were wrought where the Bodies of the Saints were not therefore doth it follow that you must pray to them Nay the Bodies of the Saints not being there occasion'd some of the Christians to have their Minds fixed upon God Ergo the Prayer to Saints is lawful and they that have their Minds thus fixed their Faith hath a greater Merit therefore Prayers to Saints are lawful The Christians did know that their Bodies were not reposed in the Church where they were praying and this was an Argument of a strong Faith and therefore the Practice of the Church of Rome in praying to Saints is lawful You say St. Gregory saith That they hear and grant our Request That is we are owned and obtain favour from Heaven upon the consideration of our following their good Example for as God did much for the People of Israel for Abraham's Sake and saved a Ships Company for St. Paul's Sake if you will have it so worded And when God did shew any particular Favour to any Man for his Esteem that he had of God's Servants that were Martyrs it was often attributed to the Saint not believing that they did do it but only to ingage them to Honour the Memory of the Saints and to follow their good Examples But I think Sir St. Gregory the Great is somewhat too young an Author to be brought upon the Stage to prove this Doctrine You advanced next as Witnesses to your Doctrine by you defended those Fathers who owned that the same Saints Reliques lay in several places were Honoured in and carried about to distant places the Evident import whereof is that the Saints may be worshipped in many nay in a thousand different places In a word wherever the God of Saints is as St. Ambrose you say observes who every where manifests these Prayers to his Saints and grants the Blessings asked by their Intercession These Sir are your own words what proof have you for this What doth St. Ambrose observe he observes you say That the God of these Saints is every where and so do I and all Protestants and we believe that he doth hear us at all times and in all places Doth St. Ambrose say that therefore we must Worship the Saints Because God heareth us every where therefore must we pray to the Saints They make Intercession for those that pray to God and have Blessings granted by their Intercession How comes this to pass God saith St. Ambrose reveals it to them Suppose all this be true Doth it therefore follow we must pray to them because by Virtue of a Divine Revelation or Manifestation they come to understand that we have made our Prayers to God. This is not a way of Arguing that becomes a Grave Father of the Society The God of these Saints is every where therefore we ought to pray to him only as that Father saith But I pray in your next tell us where St. Ambrose makes this Observation and upon what Occasion Till then I cannot see any just Reason you have to bring in St. Ambrose for a Voucher I believe he will stand you in little stead But having taken your leave of St. Ambrose you then begin to produce your main Witnesses in Defence of your Doctrine The first you produce is St. Gregory Nazianzen What would you have him to prove Would you have him to prove that the Saints Relicks lying in several places and being Honoured in and carried about to distant places they may be Worshipped in many yea in a thousand different places I pray what saith St. Gregory He attests that a little Dust the least Splinter of their decayed Bones a Lock of their Hair their Clothes some drops though almost worn off of their Bloud have as much Worship paid as their whole Body that the very calling of the place by the Martyrs Name was known to him to have as much Efficacy as if the whole Body had lain there I am much surprized at this Authority or Witness for here is not one word to justifie the Doctrine of praying to Saints unless you will Argue thus That some of Relicks of the Saints have as much Worship paid to them as the whole Body Ergo the praying to Saints is lawful and they may be prayed to at one and the same time in a thousand different places This Logic Sir will not do but let us go on the very calling of a place by a Martyrs Name was known to St. Gregory to have as much Efficacy as if the whole Body had lain there I believe as much to the full and so you and I shall agree there but what then I hope you will let us see what will follow upon this Praying to Saints is Lawful and praying to them at one and the same time in different places By no means I do think Logicians of very little Proficiency would detect this way of Arguing Your second Testimony is from Theodoret who is brought in saying thus Their Bodies are not each in their own Monument but being divied amongst Cities and Villages are by them esteemed the Preservers of their Souls and Bodies and called their Physicians and Honoured as their Protectors and Guards and making use of their Intercession they by them obtain Divine Benefits and their divided Bodies retain their Power intire This was a Learned Writer but I cannot perceive what Service he doth you

Decree in the case I therefore judge that your citing the Council was to little or no purpose the Practice of a number of Bishops being no Warrant for any Doctrine whatsoever unless approved allowed and decreed by a General Council You have met with sundry Debates amongst Learned Men that have not been opposed by the rest of the Council yet when the Question hath been put it hath been carryed against the Debates though they have appeared with a considerable Party But I will consider your Invocation here in the Council of Chalcedon The Words of your Invocation are these Flavianus lives after Death let him Pray for us I pray Sir do but consider the occasion of the Words There were two Persons that stood Candidates for the Bishoprick of Ephesus Bassianius and Stephen who both contended for that Bishoprick Bassianius appears before that Council and he having had this Flavianus to communicate with him in his Life-time and having been a great Favourite with him he because of that intimacy engaged the Bishops of the Obedience of Constantinople who cryed out in the Council in the behalf of Bassianius Flavianus the Martyr lives after Death he shall Pray for us Which is no more than this he shall intreat you to do us this favour as to give the Cause for Bassianus and confirm him Bishop of Ephesus let him Pray for us since he was a Martyr for the Faith let his Martyrdom oblige you to appear for his Friend These Bishops did not say Flavianus lives after Death he shall pray to God for us for you must understand these Bishops had made the Cause of Bassianus their own but he shall pray or intreat this Council for us This is a worthy proof for the Lawfulness of Praying to Saints for do but consider if it be given for granted that the intention of those Bishops was Let Flavianus pray to God for us What then doth it say Let us pray to Flavianus Here is not one Word of that nor indeed of the other Secondly You in the second place cite the Council of Gangrae Can. 20. If any one through Pride believing himself perfect accuse those Meetings which are had at the places where holy Martyrs Repose or in their Churches or believes that such Oblations as are made there ought to be slighted Let them be accursed But I pray Sir why do you put these words in that is need not the Intercession of the Saints that is the greatest Folly that ever Men could be guilty of What Man of Learning could ever give this Explication of a Canon which the thing will in no wise bear But Sir I will forfeit all the skill I have if you can bring any of the Doctors of Sorbonne or any of the Congregation De propaganda fide that would produce this Canon of the Council of Gangra to prove that Praying to Saints was enjoyned by the Catholick Church Nay I will appeal to any of the Learned of your own Society whether they in their Consciences do believe that it looks like a proof to justifie that Doctrine The Canon being taken as you have laid it down says no more that they are accursed who shall take down the Monuments of the Martyrs or should believe that the Oblations made in those Holy Places were to be slighted or should in any measure reflect on those that did frequent the Meetings had and held where the Bodies of the Martyrs did repose Here is not one word of Praying to the Saints or of the Saints making Intercession for us Thirdly You produce the Council of Laodicea held in the Year 320 as allowing the Worshipping of the true Martyrs of Christ mentioning Churches built in their Honour over their Monuments whether the Christians resorted I perceive you are faint-hearted and durst not say the Sence of the Council of Laodicea see the 35 Canon where it was determined by that Council That Christians ought not to leave the Church and go and call upon Angels and make Meetings which are things forbidden If any Man therefore be found giving himself to this secret Idolatry let him be accursed because he hath forsaken the Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God and hath applied himself to Idolatry Theodoret in his Exposition upon the Epistle to the Colossians doth twice mention this Canon and declare the Sence of it upon Col. 3. 17. the Apostle saith He commandeth us to adorn our Words and Deeds with the Commemoration of our Lord Jesus Christ and to send up thanks giving to God and the Father by him and not by Angels The Synod of Laodicea follow also this Rule and desiring to heal this old Disease viz. Angel-Worship made a Law That they should not Pray unto Angels nor forsake our Lord Jesus Christ. And on Col. 2. he adds That this Vice continued long in Phrygia and Pisidia for which cause the Synod assembled in Laodicea a chief City in Phrygia forbad them by a Law to Pray unto Angels Oecumenius hath much the same words upon the same place and here I am sure you find nothing of Praying to Saints but rather forbidden for if it be unlawful to Pray to the Angels and that be Idolatry then it is unlawful to Pray to the Saints for without doubt the latter is as lawful as the former In the Sixth and thirty sixth Canons of that Council you say That the Worshipping of Martyrs was as it were allowed or that I may not be charged for a Misrepresenter you say That you produced that Council as allowing the Worshipping the true Martyrs With what face can you assert that when those Canons speak nothing of the Worship of the true Martyrs The Council makes mention indeed of the resort of the Christians to the Churches of the Martyrs where they did use to pray but there is nothing in that Council that intimates any thing of the lawfulness or the necessity of Praying to Saints but rather forbids it Fourthly The last Council you cited is the fourth Council of Carthage held you say in the Year 368 not only Authorizing Christiansto meet in Churches Dedicated to Martyrs and even where-ever any Monument of a Martyr should be but commanding that all Altars should be demolished if there be not an evident certainty of the Relicks over which they were erected What is all this to the purpose The Council of Carthage say you Authorised Christians to meet in Churches Dedicated to the Martyrs Ergo Prayers to Saints are lawful That the Councel ordered the demolishing of all Alters if there were not an evident certainty of the Relicks over which they were erected Ergo the Council did command Praying to Saints But if you will look into the third Council of Carthage you will find it against the Praying to Saints You are pleased to say that this was the most expressive method of authorizing Devotion to the blessed Saints The Council authorized Christians to meet in Churches Dedicated to the Martyrs this was indeed an expressive method

of authorizing Devotion to the blessed Saints but where are your Injunctions for the Praying to Saints what was the Decree of that Council and what was that Council that did decree for the putting in practice this Romish Doctrine of Praying to Saints In a word your Four Councels make no mention of any Injunction for the people to pray to Saints no they do not so much as intimate to us that it was the practice of the Church at that time You know that your Chapter at Trent makes a formal Decree enjoyning all upon pain of a Curse to apply themselves in their Prayers to the Saints and if you had produced such a Decree you would have done some small matter of Reputation to the practice of the Church Since your Authorities taken from these Four Councils will do you no service away you hasten to St. Augustine who in his 137 Epistle commends the Christians for flocking to the Monuments of Martyrs there to ask miraculous Favours and to some particular Saints for such and such peculiar Graces to others again for different ones The Christians did go to the Monuments of the Martyrs and did ask for Favours but I hope you will tell us from whom they asked these favours St. Austin in all that Epistle doth not say one word of their asking the Saints but their Prayers were directed to God that he might obtain this or that favour or Grace which the Saint was supposed to be indued withal in the time of his or her life Here you are failed in your Authority for this saying of the holy Doctor proves nothing for the lawfulness of Praying to Saints You come to the close of the matter and here you offer the commemorations of the Blessed Virgin and holy Saints as more full and expressive in the ancient Liturgies then any in the present Roman Missal This I am sure is not ad Rem for the commemoration of the Saints to bless God for them and their good examples they left us and heavenly Doctrine they taught In that we are all agreed but I am inclined to joyn with you and examine your Authorities you produce and perhaps you may find something to drop in that may help your Doctrine of Praying to Saints which no doubt but will give your Church some colour for that Practice The first Authority you produce is St. Cyril Patriarch of Jerusalem who bears witness to this Prayer in the Liturgies of his time We pray to thee all of us and offer thee this Sacrifice so as to make a Commemoration of those who have slept before us first of the Patriarchs Prophets Apostles Martyrs that God through their Prayers would accept of our Prayers We never say more than this in any Commemoration in our Masses Well here is plainly set forth that the Saints make Intercession for us but nothing of any Prayer made to them But your Author is not very well received because this Prayer of his smells so rank of your Romish Superstition that none but such an old Doctor newly set forth could be guilty of I am lothe to call his Credit in question but I tell you that in his style in his way of arguing he is not at all like the Greek Fathers in wording his Notions he appears to have lived but of late Years and therefore his Authority Sir will be of little Credit at this time Yet he doth you no manner of Service he shews that in his time the Intercession of Saints was a received Notion but hath not one word of Praying to them and St. Augustine in his Tract in Johan seemeth to countenance it but doth not at all point at any Invocation or Prayer to be made to the Saints and Martyrs But say you doth not the saying of St. Cyril and St. Augustine prove that their Intercession must be asked that it may be obtained In answer to this I say I do not find that either your St. Cyril or St. Augustine doth in either of these places direct us to apply our selves to the Saints for the benefit of their Intercession the one saith That in the Prayer of the Liturgies in his time the faithful did commemorate the Saints that God through their Prayers would accept of your Prayers And St. Austine saith That the Christians commemorate the Saints at the holy Table that they may pray for us He doth not say that Christians pray to the Saints that they may pray for us It may be worth your while to consider how little these two Authors do appear to help you out in this point which you so zealously defend You say that you offered devout Prayers to the blessed Virgin out of the Liturgies of St. Basil and St. Chrysostom Those Liturgies have both been so miserably abused that they are not of any great value with the Doctors of you own Church for the Interpolations are so frequent that we can scarce tell either the order or the sence of those Liturgies I have seen the old Copies of those Liturgies where I find commemorations of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints but I cannot find any Prayer made to them in latter times They may have crowded a Prayer to the Virgin which you perchance have used but it is no proof For Dr. Stephen Gardner the notorious Bishop of Winton he saith and that not without due consideration had of those Offices that both of them were miserably disordered that set behind which should have been before and that the Ignorant Scribes of the latter Ages had basely corrupted both those Liturgies This is the Credit that the Liturgies of those Fathers had with that Bishop of your own Church and therefore we have reason Sir to refuse them as Authors that have been corrupted by the Scribes of your own Church Steph. Gard. ad object 185. And that St. Chrysostom's Liturgie hath been abused doth thus further appear for in that Liturgie set forth by Claudus Sanctes you have St. Chrysostom praying for Pope Nicholas in these words Nicholai sanctissimi Vniversalis Papae longa sunt tempora We pray God send Nicholas that most Holy and Universal Pope a long time to live whereas it is well known to you that Pope Nicholas lived in the year of our Lord 857. which was almost 500. years after St. Chrysostom's decease likewise in the same Liturgie there is a Prayer for the Empire and Victory of the Emperour Alexius who lived in the year 1080. after the death of St. Chrysostom 700. years Now it is very hard if we should receive the Testimonies that are Authentic since they are made to serve all the vile Turns imaginable so that you may see what Stuff here is that you father upon two burning and shining Lights of God's Church and upon them we must ground our Faith and Salvation We must pray we know not what and I know not to whom If we receive either or both your new St. Basils and new St. Chrysostoms Liturgies for in their old Liturgies there

able to give and I am he for whom they must be obtained being his Servant who observe him alone Apologetic c. 30. There is a Discourse of the Trinity by Novatian which is added to the Works of Tertullian in which you may meet this passage If Christ be only a Man Why is a Man called upon in our Prayers as a Mediator seeing that the Invocation of a Man is judged of no Efficacy to Salvation Why also is Hope reposed in him seeing Hope in Man is Accursed From hence observe that if Christ may not be Prayed unto if he were but a Man then the Saints who are but Men may not be prayed unto If Christ be but a Man he cannot be prayed unto as a Mediator therefore how can you justifie Praying to Saints as Mediators seeing they are but Men If a Prayer to a Man be of no Efficacy to Salvation then Prayer to Saints can be of no Efficacy to Salvation since they are but Men. If Christ were but a meer Man then why is Hope reposed in him the Saints being but Men Why should Hope be reposed in them for if you pray to Saints you must not only believe that they hear you but hope that they will answer you which hope is in vain because they are but Men. Observe what he saith further Si Homo tantum modo Christus quomodo adest ubique invocatus haec-Hominis Natura non sit sed Dei ut adesse omni loco possit If Christ be only Man how is he present being called upon every where seeing this is not the Man but God that can be present in every place De Trinit c. 14. The Saints being only Men how are they present being called upon every where they cannot be in all places it being the Nature of God only to be present in every place If the Omnipresence of God be the great Argument why we should call upon him every where then you can give no reason why the Saints should be called upon every where because they are not Omnipresent We could not justifie Praying to Christ every where as Mediator if he were but a meer Man because as such as he could not be in every place How then can you justifie Praying to Saints every where as Mediators sure they cannot as Men be in every place Observe what St. Ambrose saith in his Funeral Oration upon Theodosius the Emperour Tu solus Domine Invocandus es Tu Rogandus ut eum in filiis Representes Thou only O Lord art to be Invocated Thou art to be Intreated to make up the want of him in his Sons If this Holy Doctor saith true which is beyond all Contradiction then how can you justifie the Invocation and Prayer to Saints as it is practised in your Church Why might not St. Ambrose have applied himself to the Saints to make up the want of Theodosius in his Sons if that the Praying to Saints had been lawful And if the Praying to Saints be lawful how can this passage of that great Doctor be by you justified If you can but reconcile this you shall be my great Oracle for if God alone be to be called upon and Intreated then none else ought to be called upon and Intreated Why then are your Saints called upon and Intreated Consider that passage of St. Augustine in his Confessions he thus Prays unto God Quem invenirem qui me Reconciliaret tibi an eundem mihi fuit ad Angelelos qua prece quibus Sacramentis multi conantes ad te redire neque per seipsos volentes ficut audio tentaverunt haec inciderunt in disiderium curiosarum Visionem digni habiti sunt Illusionibus Whom shall I find that might Reconcile me to thee Should I go to Angels with what Prayer With what Sacraments Many endeavouring to return unto thee and not being able to do it by themselves as I hear have tryed these things and have often fallen into the Desire of curious Visions and were accounted worthy of Delusion If Angels and Saints had been Mediators as your Church saith they are then St. Austin could have lain under no great difficulty of finding some body to Reconcile him to God If praying to Angels had been a Doctrine according to Truth he would not have wanted a Prayer He saith Should I have gone to the Angels With what Prayer If praying to Angels had been a received Doctrine there would have been Directions given with what Prayer he should have gone to them and the very same may be said of the Saints Should we go then with what Prayer See what he farther saith I confess and know my Soul is Defiled But who shall cleanse it or to whom else should I cry besides thee Confess lib. 10. c. 41. Sir The Question had been altogether needless or else soon answered had your Doctrine been true the Distemper that he laboured under had soon been cured had your Practice been lawful If it were lawful for St. Austine to cry to none but to God and seek redress from him then why doth your Church engage us to call upon Saints and Angels There is another Saying of the same Father that doth appear against your Practice and Doctrine in Controversie in these words Divine singulariter in Ecclesia Catholica traditur nullam Creaturam collendam esse c. In the Catholick Church it is divinely and singularly delivered that no Creature is to be Worshipped by the Soul but only he that is Creator of all things De quantit Animae C. 34. It is apparent that the Word of God is against you for you have no warrant from thence for this assertion nay you have the express Words of Christ against it Mat. 4. 10. Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve Which Injunction was delivered by Moses to the Jews Deut. 6. 13. chap. 10. 20. And by the Prophet Samuel 1 Sam. 7. 3. with a Promise of their being deliver'd out of the hands of the Philistines and not only so but you have a Tradition of the Church Catholick Traditur saith the holy Doctor in Ecclesia Catholica nullam Creaturam collendam esse From whence I argue if no Creature is to be worshipped but God only who is the Creator of all things then the Saints who are but Creatures are by no means to be worshipped because Worship is only due to God for that he is the Creator of all things Again the same Doctor saith Christus Sacerdos est qui nunc Ingressus in interiora veli Solus ibi ex his qui Carnem Gustaverant interpellat pro nobis in cujus rei figura in illo primo populo in illo primo templo unus sacerdos intrabat in Sancta Sanctorum populus omnis foras stabat Jesus Christ is the Priest who being now enter'd within the Vail alone there of them that have been partakers of Flesh doth make Intercession for us in figure of which thing amongst that first People

A DISCOURSE OF THE Unlawfulness of Praying TO Saints and Angels BEING A full Answer to a LETTER OF SABRAN the JESUITE WHEREIN The Practice of the Church of Rome in Praying to Saints and Angels is plainly proved to be contrary to the Doctrine of Christ and the pretended Authority by him produc'd to be either Forged or Impertinent By TITVS OATES D. D. A Presbyter of the Church of England LONDON Printed for Richard Baldwin near the Black Bull in the Old-Baily MDCLXXXIX ERRATA PREFACE PAge 1. line 1. read Controversies ibid. l. 7. r. new Matter p. 3. l. 8 r. that rascally DISCOURSE PAge 2. line 24. read erat Judaeis p. 4. l. 12. r. perparum ibid. l. 36. r. Caroli p. 5. l. 35. r. ut nonnulli ibid. l. 38. r. adorari ibid. l. 40. ● for if p. 11. l. 25. r. Apostolum Christi non sicut Antichristum p. 12. l. 〈◊〉 r. Mulieres ibid. l. 38. r. Filii ibid. l. 39. r. subactas p. 13. l. 21. r. 〈◊〉 ibid. l. 28. r. posteros p. 14. l. 35. r. affinity ibid. l. 41. r. inde p. 15. l. 3. r. Dixit quid mihi tibi est ibid. l. 4. r. quod non putaret aliquis magis eximiam ibid. l. 5. r. veluti ibid. l. 7. r. admirati delibantur p. 16. l. 7. r. I pray p. 17. l. 7. r. aliquem p. 19. l. 13. r. quisque ib. l. 16. r. Nymphis ib. l. 21. r. Nympha p. 21. l. 8. r. hath been far ib. l. 26. r. Now your Divines ib. l. 42. r. alitèr p. 22. l. 33. r. supplicitèr p. 24. l. 3. r. drive our sins away p. 25. l. 12. r. call a sequence ib. l. 25. r. it is by her ib. l. 36. r. per manus ipsius administrantur ib. penult r. aureum p. 26. l. 37. r. than he that is p. 28. l. 14. r. of his skill ib. l. 33. r. King moved him to wrath that he threatened p. 30. l. 3. r. recalling ib. l. 26. r. of Tours in France p. 31. ult r. Revelations meant p. 33. l. 12. r. who are intreated in the Name of the King. p. 34. l. 29. r. of Blood throughout p. 36. l. 13. r. dependit p. 41. l. 3. r. do not mention p. 43. l. 7. r. was kept that he went from thence into p. 44. l. 40. r. as I have already observed dead p. 51. l. 36. r. was only p. 52. l. 38. r. and were not p. 53. l. 13. r. honorificentiam qui nobis salutem profusione sui p. 54. l. 9. r. great Miracles p. 57. l. 4. r. in Testimony that p. 58. l. 4. r. Martyrs I must tell you that of these ib. l. 5. r. doubt were very ib. l. 14. r. portenta ib. l. 22. r. qui essent veri Christiani qui. ib. l. 28. r. mirabiliarios ib. l. 30. r. ut inducant p. 63. l. 17. r. Rem it being only for the. p. 64. l. 30. r. longa sint tempora ib. l. 38. r. Testimonies as Authentick p. 65. l. 11. r. years to justifie your groundless Notions p. 66. l. 31. r. Grace who by Nature were ib. l. 35. r. whom they asserted p. 68. l. 12. r. an eundum mihi ad Angelos ib. l. 13. Neque per seipsos potentes ib. l. 15. r. that may reconcile p. 69. l. 13. r. gestaverunt ib. l. 15. r. Sanctum Sanctorum ib. l. 17. r. Vail there he alone of all them p. 70. l. 27. r. quia si pie vixerunt These are the gross Faults of this Piece besides which are many other smaller Errors not only literal but in the Pointing which I have omitted here and desire the Reader to Correct with his Pen. ADVERTISEMENT WHereas a Late Paper was Publish'd Entituled A Petition and Proposals to his Highness the Prince of Orange this is to satisfie my Friends it is a very unjust Imposition on me both by Printer and Publisher TO ALL True Protestants GRACE and PEACE c. BRETHREN THE Controversie between us of the Reformed Religion and the Synagogue of Rome have been so often debated and the Authorities on both sides so often produced that to some who are yet Strangers to the present Constitution of Affairs it may seem unnecessary to say them over again and I must confess that it will be scarce possible to bring forth any Matter or if we could it is scarce probable that what can be newly laid down as Proof can prevail more than all those Arguments that have been used and urged in those great Controversies by Men Eminent in their Generations for Learning and Piety and who have blessed the World with their Labours in a most signal manner but these Considerations have not discouraged me from doing my Duty because that Experience hath taught me that the same Medicaments are with Success applied to a returning or abiding Vlcer and the Truth of it is the Ministers of Christ and Stewards of the Mysteries of God must be for ever ready to put the Church of God in mind of such things as they have already heard and by the same Scriptures and the same Arguments endeavour to prevent and destroy Sin and by the same Authority from the Word of God to extirpate Heresies which daily are sowed by those cursed Impostors of the See of Rome These eight or ten years of warm Weather and many Indulgent Showres of soft Rain have made many of their Damnable Heresies like Weeds to take Root greatly and to spread themselves widely and the Conspirators by their repeated Importune Impudence have had great Encouragements to seduce our Countries from their Obedience to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and they bave had some Success upon those who have made Gain to be Godliness and their Interest their God and have to the utmost of their Power and Skill endeavoured to brand and blacken all Men that have stood in their way some they have almost Ruined for endeavouring to prevent the Mischiefs they have ever since the Restauration been Plotting and Contriving against our Lives Liberties and Religion amongst which I am one and should have been silent under my present Oppression and unjust Vsage and given way to others of better Abilities to have defended the Cause had I not been provoked to appear in Print Some time since Mr. Lewis Sabran who calls himself a Priest of the Society of Jesus wrote a scurrilous Letter to Mr. William Needham in answer to a third Letter by him Licensed written to him the said Sabran in the fourth Page of which Letter he is pleased to use these words Hence have taken their Rise those black unconcionable Calumnies by which when they could reach it they have taken away our Lives to this end of late years was singled out against us the Minister Oates Their Fury being now disarmed they turned the Stream of those Calumnies on the Catholick Church by misrepresenting her Doctrine and again when all the false Colours of those Misrepresentations are wiped of those Slanders that scurrulous

of Praying to Saints and Angels must be an Abomination for God will allow of nothing in his Service and Worship but what he himself hath instituted Therefore all Protestant Divines have with one consent agreed that all necessary parts of Religious Worship do so depend upon the Will of God revealed in his Word that whatsoever is not founded on his Word is contrary to his Will. Therefore Sir hear what the great Doctor of the Church St. Augustine saith De Consens Evangel Deum sic colere Op rtet quo modo seipsum Colendum esse praecepit We ought so to worship God as he hath appointed himself to be worshipt Be pleased to remember what the Scripture saith Deut. 12. last verse The Israelites are dehorted from using the Religious Rites and Customs of the Heathens in the worshipping of God. How then in what manner must they worship him Whatsoever thing he commands they must observe to do they may not add thereto nor diminish from it To which Sir let me add that of our Saviour Mat. 15. 9. In vain do they worship me teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men that is pressing mens Traditions in the room of God's Institution Sir give me leave to press one thing more as worthy of your consideration that is that the worshipping of Saints and Angels of which Prayer and Invocation is a principal part and is not only without any Warrant from the Word of God but also is forbidden in the Scripture there it is written Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve I must here tell you I am not ignorant of your distinction of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the former your Divines say belong to God only and the latter may be applied to the Creature But Sir you very well know these are reciprocally used both in Sacred and Profane Writ And some Learned men of your own Communion have been so ingenuous as to acknowledge the same Quid si una Religionis vertus sit quae Latriam duliamque continet certe plurimis atque Sapientissimis ea est Opinio You know well enough who it was that coyned this distinction and that though he was a great Light in the Church of God yet he was no Critick in the Greek Tongue as he himself saith Ego quid Linguae Graecae perpurum assecutus sum prope nihil It was St. Augustine himself whom you very well know did never intend it for that end and purpose for which it is now used for he confesseth That the one is due to him as he is our Lord and the other as he is our God. These are St. Austin's own words which taketh away to all intents and purposes that imaginary difference between your Latria and Dulia therefore when I meet with any of yours urging the one to signifie the honour that belongeth only to God recognizing his Supream Dominion and the other to signifie service that is due to the Creature I find that they say just nothing but thus much We must honour God and serve the Saints It is like the Saying of your Lyra One Knee we may bow to a Noble Personage but upon both we may kneel only to God. This Lyra thought he had done the business when he had so learnedly salved the matter But I pray Sir what if the common people understand no Greek and cannot so learnedly discern Latria from Dulia but take the one Adoration for the other truly as it now fareth in your Church they use them universally without difference therefore this distinction thus applied seemeth much like to the Physician 's Wife that once said that Pepper is cold in working and hot in operation for I humbly conceive this distinction so much made use of by the Divines of your Church standeth not in difference of matter but only in words Certainly Sir Constantius the Bishop of Constantia in the second Nicene Council was so zealous for the Worship of Images that he laid aside this distinction of Latria and Dulia and very roundly in Libro Carole Magni tells you his thoughts of the Worship of Images Ego Imaginibus cultum honoris exhibeo eundem qui debetur Individuae Trinitati si quis nolit idem facere eum anathematizo ut Martionem Manichaeum I for my part yield unto Images the same Adoration of honour that is due to the Holy Trinity and if any man refuse to do the same I accurse him as I do the Hereticks Martion and Maenicheus Now Sir this distinction of your Church-men falls to the ground if the Authority of this Doctor and Bishop of your Church may pass for currant but lest you should wave the Authority of this Bishop I pray consider the determination of the second Council of Nice where it was determined thus Non sunt duae Adorationes sed una adoratio Imaginis primi exemplaris Cujus est Imago There are not two sorts of Worship or Adoration the one called Latria the other Dulia as your Divines divide them but one only Adoration both of the Image and also of the Pattern whereof the Image is Likewise your Great Doctor Thomas of Aquine after a long Debate upon the Point of the Worshipping of Images and shewing with what Worship they ought to be Worshipped The Image saith he and the Thing thereby represented must be Worshipped with one and the same Adoration Tho. 3 Senten Dist 2. And for example saith The Cross or Image of Christ must be Worshipped with Latria that is with Godly Honour because Christ himself is so honoured and the Image of our Lady with Dulia because that Honour as he saith is due unto our Lady But this Determination is reproved by Holcot in his Readings upon the Book of Wisdom Reading 158 and his Reason is this Latria or Godly Honour is due only unto God but the Image of God is not God therefore Latria or Godly Honour is not due to an Image otherwise saith he the Creator and the Creature would be Worshipped or Adored with one and the same Honour and notwithstanding Henricus de Gandavo Petrus de Aquila Johannes de Gui Verra Durandus and other School-Doctors of your Communion agree with Holcot and their Judgment seems more agreeable to reason yet your Author that wrote Fortalitium Fidei saith The common Opinion and Practice of your Church holdeth to the contrary And one Jacobus Payva a great Stickler on that side with great assurance writeth thus Non Tamen Inficiamur hac Nos Latriae Adoratione Christi praeclarissimam Crucem colere Venerari We deny not but we do Worship and Adore the Most Noble Cross of Christ even with this Godly Honour that we call Latria Sir Be pleased to take Notice that some of your Divines the better to colour the absurdity of this way of Adoration they will in all their Writings refer the Adoration of the Thing represented by the Image yet I

find that Jacobus Nauclantius the Bishop of Clugium in Italy is so zealous that he tells you That the Image and the Thing represented by the Image must be Worshipped with one and the same Adoration Be pleased Sir to observe his Words which are these in Epist ad Roman Cap. 1. Ergo non solum fatendum est fideles in Ecclesia Adorare coram Imagine nonnulla ad cautelam fortè loquuntur sed Adorare Imaginem sine quo volueris scrupulo quin eo illam venerari cultu quo proto typon ejus propter quod si illud habet Adorari Latria illa habet adorare Latria Therefore we must confess that the faithful People in the Church do not only Worship before the Image as some men use to speak for more assurance but that they Worship the Image itself and that without any manner of scruple of Conscience whatsoever yea and further they Worship the Image with the same Honour wherewith they Worship the Thing represented as if the Thing represented by the Image be Worshipped with Godly Honour then must the Image itself be Worshipped with Godly Honour These Sir are the Doctors of your Church Men of no small figure in their day The Bishop's Works were Printed at Venice 1557 and Pava was Printed at Cologne 1564 both allow'd as not being against the Catholick Faith From all which what availeth your Distinction of Latria and Dulia For the one by your Doctors is given to the Creature as well as the other Why may not the Virgin Mary have Latria as well as a Stock or Stone which have Eyes and see not and Hands and handle not a Nose and smell not Ears and hear not Feet and walk not So that if you trust to the Distinction you will fail of your expectation Service and Worship being only due to God Thou shalt Worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve hereby both Dulia and Latria applyed to God and to none else for if you compare the Text with the Text in the Old Testament Deut. 6. 13. you will find the word Only not used but our Blessed Redeemer puts it in to shew that God and none but him is the Object of our Latria and Dulia the one signifying Religious Worship and the other signifying Religious Service In the Text if you please to consider the occasion that was then given to the Blessed Jesus to speak those Words in Matth. 4. our Lord was tempted by the Devil to Worship him the Reply Christ makes is this Get thee behind me Satan for it is written Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve You cannot imagine Sir that the Devil did desire of Christ to pay that Service to him which you call the superiour and highest Service nor did he pretend to be God himself but only his Minister and enjoy what he offer'd by the Bounty of God and a little Religious Prostration would have served his turn I say the most he could appear to be was an Angel of Light yet Christ refused to pay to him either your Latria or Dulia for he saith Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him only shalt thou serve where you must observe that as the Devil had no Right to any Religious Worship so no Creature can pretend to it it being due to God only Sir Be pleased further to consider that passage in the Revelations 19. 10. where St. John seeing an Angel I fell saith he at his feet to worship him and he said unto me see thou do it not I am thy fellow-servant and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus worship God. This St. John was so transported with the Great and Glorious Tidings he had received from Heaven by the Angel he falls on his Face to acknowledge to the Angel his Joy for his News and his Thankfulness to the Messenger but he is forbidden and commanded to Worship God See thou do it not but worship God. And see Revel 22. 8 9. And I John saw these things and heard them and when I had heard and seen I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things then said he unto me see thou do it not for I am thy follow-servant and of thy brethren the Prophets and of them which keep the sayings of this book worship God. Hence you may see that the Angel forbids St. John Worshipping him nay he chides him for offering to pay him a Religious Worship 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 I am thy Companion in Dulia therefore Worship not me but God as the only Object of Religious Worship do not Worship me that am thy Fellow-Servant and Fellow-Worshipper Secondly I pray Sir be pleased to consider that the Almighty hath enjoyned us a Rational Worship and Service fit for Mankind to perform and as most suitable with the Glory of his Holy Name but I conceive the Practice of the Church of Rome in this Point of Praying to Saints and Angols to be irrational and by your leave let me tell you that nothing can be more irrational and absurd this I shall make appear in these two Particulars I. Consider that the Saints and Angels are under an incapacity of hearing the Prayers that are directed to them and if so then Sir you will own it to be ridiculous and irrational to pray to them that cannot hear our Prayers I remember the Scripture saith How shall we call on them in whom we do not believe I may with as much reason say How shall we call on them who cannot hear us that this is the Case of the Glorified Spirits is evident 1. Because they are not Omnipresent they are circumscribed and finite Creatures and can be but in one place at one and the same time This may be affirmed with very good ground of the Virgin Mary herself who then must be incapable of hearing the Prayers of One Hundred Thousand Persons who it may be are Praying to her at one and the same time some in one part of the World and others in the other part of the World and if she cannot hear their Prayers I cannot suppose that she can help those who are so much devoted to her Service I pray Sir Why do we call upon the Name of the Great God Is it not because he is present to observe and present to accept our Petitions and answer our Suits all Men have his essential Presence good Men have the Presence of his Grace which doth not only flow from his Nature but from his Promise also Now how can a Saint or Angel be either present to observe or present to accept of the Petitions of those that make suit to them That saying of the Psalmist is plain Psal 139. 7 8 9. Whither shall I go from thy presence If I ascend up to heaven thou art there if I make my bed in hell behold thou art there if I take the wings of the morning and

at the present I am to seek Thirdly It is Sir in the third place highly destructive to the Mediation of Christ It destroys both his Glory and Power as a Mediator between God and Man. Our Divines have from the Scriptures satisfied those over whom they by the Holy Ghost were made Overseers and by our knowledge we have of the Scripture we are convinced that we have no other Mediator or Intercessor by whom we may have access to God but Jesus Christ in whose Name alone all things are obtained at the hands of his Eternal Father therefore we are much concern'd at the Vanity and Superstition we see in your Churches not only that your Mediators are without number though you know well Sir that St. Paul in the 1 Tim. 2. 6. saith There is but one Mediator between God and Man the Man Christ Jesus Your Divines give it for granted that there is but one Mediator of Salvation but there are many Mediators of Intercession And thus with this fond Distinction they convey themselves away as if they had sufficiently acted their part But Sir be pleased to tell us that since you own that Christ alone is the Mediator of Salvation why do you pretend to call upon the Virgin Mary Salva omnes qui te glorificant Save thou all those that glorifie thee Here you intrude upon the Office of our dear Redeemer and make the Holy Virgin not only Mediator of Intercession but also of Salvation for by your Prayers and by the Practice of the Church of Rome even contrary to your own Distinction you desire Salvation of our Lady and so make her a Mediator not only of Prayer but of Salvation You shift off this and say That when you say Save us you mean no more but Pray for us that we may be saved but this is but shifting for you shift from Saving to Praying and from Praying to Saving at your pleasure but if you crave nothing from the Mother of Jesus but only her Prayer or Intercession I pray Sir what is the true meaning of these Words Meritis praecibus suae piae Matris here are not only Prayers but also Merits You still say that the only thing you crave from the Virgin is her Prayers What then will you do with those Words so often mentioned in your Offices Monstra te esse Matrem Shew thy self to be the Mother and let him know it that is to say Command him he is thy Son. I pray observe a Command cannot be Prayer Merits cannot be Prayer nor Salvation cannot be Prayer But Sir why should your Divines stand upon this Distinction since a fictitious Author that carryeth the name of St. Ambrose in Serm. 6. de S. Margareta writ thus Reddere debemus sanctis honorificentiam qui nobis salutem profusione sui sanguinis pepererunt qui tam sacra Hostia pro nostra propitiatione domino sunt oblati We must yield honour unto the Saints who have procured Salvation for us by the shedding of their blood who also were offered up unto the Lord so holy a Sacrifice for our Salvation If we have Salvation in and by the blood of the Saints then is not our blessed Lord the only Mediator of Salvation Therefore Sir how shall this be reconciled to your Doctrine or how will you reconcile your Doctrine to this of your young St. Ambrose for you say that Christ himself is the only Mediator of Salvation and your Author saith that Salvation is procured by the blood of the Saints also by which you may perceive your distinction will not serve your turn upon any terms whatsoever Therefore Sir give me leave to offer this to your consideration that the end and office of Christs Mediation of Intercession as also of Salvation is to reconcile us to God and to procure us Mercy which Christ performeth for he reconcileth us to God he presenteth us unto the Throne of Grace and therefore as St. Paul saith Rom. 8. 34. That he is at the right hand of God and maketh Intercession for us and that there is one Mediatour between God and Men the Man Christ Jesus Tim. 2. 5. I confess that God hath commanded his Saints and Servants to Pray one for another but St. Paul never commanded the People to Pray to Saints I pray take notice of the words of St. Augustine Paulus non facit se Mediatorem inter Populum Deum sed Rogat ut pro se orent Invicem ontnia Membra Corporis Christi Paul maketh not himself a Mediator between God and the People but requireth that they Pray one for another they being all the Members of Christ's Mystical Body Aug. Epist Parmen Lib. 2. Cap. 8. And of St. John he saith Si Johannes ita diceret hoc scripsi vobis ut non peccetis siquis peccaverit Mediatorem me habetis apud Deum ego exoro pro peccatis vestris Sicut Permenianus quodam loco Mediatorem posuit Episcopum inter Deum Populum quis eum ferret bonorum atque fidelium Christianorum Quis sicut Apostolorum Christi non sicut Antichristium intueretur If St. John would say this I have written unto you that you sin not and if you sin you have me your Mediator before God and I will intreat for your Sins As Parmenian the Heretick in a certain place made the Bishop a Mediator between God and the People What good and faithful Christian could abide him Who would look upon him as the Apostle of Christ and not rather think him to be Antichrist Thus you may see that it is repugnant to the Sence of St. Augustine and other of the Doctors of the Church That Christ is the only Mediator of Salvation and that he is not the only Mediator of Intercession for whosoever takes that upon him is Antichrist St. Paul himself not assuming to himself the Office of a Mediator Why should we without any just ground judge and deem him so since no Man can take this honour to himself unless called of God as was Aaron to this High-Priesthood of Intercession which the Blessed Lord himself did not take upon him till he was thus called so that you may plainly see that St. Augustine is as positive as may be that no Man can be a Mediator of Intercession but Christ himself alone who ever liveth to make Intercession for us and your young St. Ambrose he saith That Christ is not alone the Mediator of Salvation Therefore what is become of your Distinction of his being the only Mediator of Salvation but not the only Mediator of Intercession And by the by be pleased to observe that Parmenianus the Heretick against whom St. Augustine wrote never thought that the Bishop was a Mediator of Salvation and yet St. Augustine saith That if St. John would have said so much of himself viz. That he had been a Mediator of Intercession he had not been the Apostle of Christ but rather should have been judged and taken for

Antichrist This Sir I humbly conceive is worthy of your Consideration And I hope that you will not for the future rely much upon that Distinction I must mind you of that Saying of the Prophet Where are thy Gods that thou hast made thee Let them arise if they can save thee in the time of thy trouble for according to the number of thy Cities are thy Gods O Judah Jer. 2. 28. chap. 11. 13. And according to the number of the Streets of Jerusalem have you set up Altars to the shameful Thing even Altars to burn Incense unto Baal So you have your innumerable Company of Saints to whom ye erect Altars insomuch that those of your Communion cannot tell to which Saint it were best to turn them first yet you have assighed every one of them their Office and direct your Disciples what things they ought to ask and what to give and what to bring to pass under their respective Protections without any manner of Warrant from the Word of God. But Sir be pleased to understand me I do not apply these false Gods to the Saints for that would be Blasphemy and it were to call them Idols which is absurd seeing that they see the Face of God evermore and are with God in Glory but in respect of those horrible Abuses and vain Fancies of those of your Communion the words of the Prophet may be justly applyed for you in your Imagination of the Saints of God you have made Idols and have so multiplied and increased the same that the number of them have exceeded the number of your Cities and Towns But Sir if you will give me your patience I will shew you that an eminent Light in the Church of God did apply these very words of the Prophet unto the Blessed Mother of Jesus being then abused most Idolatrously by the Hereticks Collyridians in the same manner as you abuse her and other Saints now even to the highest Idolatry it was the old Father Epiphanius Lib. 3. Haeris 79. Nequis comedat de Errore qui est propter Sanctam Mariam tam si enim pulchrum sit lignum tamen non'est ad Cibum si Pulcherrima est Maria Sancta Honorata at non ad Adorationem Hae vero Mulieris colentes Mariam rursus Renovant fortunae mixturam praeparant Mensam Diabolo non Deo quemadmodium Scriptum est pascuntur cibo impietatis rursus Faeminae terunt Pollinem Filiis colligunt Ligna ut faciant Placentas Oleo subactus Reginae Caeli Compescantur Jeremia tales Mulieres ne turbant Orbem Terrarum ne dicant Honoramus Reginam Coeli Let no Man feed upon this Error touching St. Mary for though the Tree be fair yet is not the Fruit to be eaten and though Mary be Beautiful Holy and Honourable yet is she not to be Adored But these Women Worshipping St. Mary run again to the Sacrifice of Wine mingled in the Honour of the Goddess Fortune and prepare a Table for the Devil and not for God as it is written in the Scriptures they are fed with the meat of wickedness and again their Women boult flower and their Children gather sticks to make Cakes in honour of the Queen of Heaven therefore let such Women be rebuked by the Prophet Jeremiah and let them no more trouble the World and let them not say We worship the Queen of Heaven Here you may see Sir that these words were spoken of the filthy Idols of the Heathen and by this holy Father applied to the Mother of our Lord not to deface that blessed Woman but to declare the fond Errours of those Hereticks what is done less to that great Saint in those Countries that pay Obedience to the Church and See of Rome than these Hereticks did of whom this holy man thus complaineth Do you not offer to her Candles Incence Garments Jewels of Silver and Jewels of Gold Are not by pretence of Worship your Churches inriched And all this you do because you say She is the great Mediator of Intercession But you pay the same Homage to her if not more as you do to her Son the Redeemer of the World. You pray to her to save and defend you in Body and Soul now and in the hour of death for you call her The Queen of Heaven the Lady of Angels you say to her Command thy Son shew thy self to be a Mother Your Cardinal Bembus telleth the Virgin Dominam Deam Nostram Bemb in Epist ad Carolum 5. Ambrosius Catharinus one of the Council of Trent Sess 2. calleth the Virgin God's Fellow Fidelissima ejus Socia Nicholaus Cusanus a Cardinal of Rome saith Excitat Lib. 8. Hoc cedit ad Laudem dei Virginis Mariae Matris quod ipso suo principatu Authoris mortis nullo unquam tempore fuit non indiguit virgo Liberatore qui ipsam absolveret a sententia in Adam in posteres Lata Maria non est deleta de Libro Mortis quia nunquam in eo scripta fuit This thing turneth to the praise of God and of the Virgin Mary the Mother that she never was at any time under the power of the Author of Death that Virgin needed no Deliverer that should ransom her from the Sentence pronounced against Adam and his Posterity Mary was never razed out of the Book of Death for she was never written in it When our Nation did profess the Romish Religion I meet with a Council held at Oxford where the Name of Christ is quite left out and Mary's Name put in for thus it beginneth Authoritate Dei Patris Baeatae Virginis omnium Sanctorum By the Authority of God the Father and the Blessed Virgin and of all Saints Do you not in your Offices call her Mediatrix and Redemptrix Why then do you shuffle off your Hearers with this distinction that Christ alone is the Mediator of Salvation and that the Virgin and Saints are only Mediators of Intercession and not of Salvation I would once more pray you to observe how you contradict your own Doctrine left by men whose Authority was not to be question'd by any that did succeed them If your St. Ambrose saith true The Saints by shedding their Bloud did purchase Salvation for us how comes it to pass that they are not Mediators of Salvation But if they did not purchase Salvation for us I pray how comes it to pass that they are Mediators of Intercession When did this Priesthood of theirs commence When did God say to any one of them Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee The Saints did not glorifie themselves to be made Priests nor did God call them to that Priesthood that should intitle them to such a Mediatorship that you would put upon them and Christ himself had not glorified himself to be made an High-Priest but God glorified him and said Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee Heb. 5. 8. From all which Sir we may

your paying that Worship to the Creature which is only due to the Creator you bring the just Charge of Idolatry upon your selves which we are commanded to avoid I beseech you Sir to tell us wherein you differ from the Gentiles in their Idolatry Do you not do by your Saints and Angels as they did by their Gods Do you not manifestly revive their Doctrine of Daemons which is foretold in Scripture as that which should fall out in the latter days amongst the degenerate and apostatizing Christians So the Apostle tells us 1 Tim. 4. 1 2. That in the latter times some should revolt from the Faith giving heed to seducing Spirits and Doctrines of Devils or Daemons Now what these Daemons were I will not pretend to inform you but only remind you that the Idolatry of the Gentiles and their notions of Daemons is revived and re-enforced in your Church The Gentiles feighned that their Daemons were an inferiour sort of deified Powers that stood in the midst between the Soveraign Gods and them The Soveraign Gods were by them supposed so sublime and pure that Mortals could not and might not approach therefore they introduced this middle sort of Divine Powers to be as Mediators and Agents betwixt them These Daemons or Mediators were supposed to be of two sorts some were the Souls of men deified after their death for you must understand that the Canonization of Heroes and deceased Worthies is somewhat older than your Canonizations in your Church for Rome whilst it was under the Clouds of Heathenism had a custom to canonize their deceased Emperours and they called them Divine or Saints as well as the Church of Rome hath now We read of a Divus Augustus as well as of a Divus Augustinus The Gentiles I say had another sort of Daemons which were more sublime and had never dwelt in mortal bodies but were from the beginning always the same These second sort of Daemons do fitly answer those Spiritual Powers which we call Angels as the former above-mentioned sort do to those we call Saints To these Daemons they built their Temples and their Images Shrines and Reliques they worshipped with all Religious Devotion So that in many respects the Idolatry of the Pagans is a perfect Pattern of the Idolatry of your Church the one hath great affinity with the other and is exactly parallel with it and your Practice of Praying to Saints and Angels hath its Rise and Being from the Adoration that the Gentiles paid to their Daemons The Gentiles distributed Offices and several Duties limited and appointed to each Daemon in his station and degree which I prove out of Augustine de Civit. Dei lib. 4. cap. 12. who there saith thus Varro dicebat ita esse utilem cognitionem Deorum si sciatur quam quis quae Deus vim aut potestatem habeat cujusque rei ex eo enim inquit poteremus scire quem cujusque rei causam Deum advocare atque invocare debeamus ne faciamus ut Mimi solent Optomus à Libero aquam à Lymphis Vinum Varro said the knowledge of the Gods is profitable if a man understand what Power and Authority each God hath in every thing for so saith he we may know whom to call upon and whom to pray unto lest by chance we do as certain Mimi are wont to do that is to say lest of Bacchus the God of Wine we beg Water and of Cymphae the Goddess of Water we beg Wine These things having their beginning amongst the Pagan Idolaters have since been brought into the Church of God to the high displeasure of Almighty God and great scandal of the glorious Gospel of his dear Son. So all the Saints in Heaven have been appointed each one in his Order to his several Office lest any one should intrude into anothers Room Observe what Antonius a Bishop of your Church nay if I mistake not he was Archbishop of Florence saith in his time He saw Sr. Paul and Fryer Dominick painted together Under the Image of St. Paul there was written Per hunc Itur ad Christum We may come to Christ by this Saint but under the Picture of Fryer Dominick they wrote thus Sed Magis per Istum What did they mean by this Sir but that Fryer Dominick's Office and Authority before God was somewhat better and of more credit than St. Paul's You teach your People to pray to St. Gal for the fecundity and health of their Geese and to St. Windiline for their Sheep to St. Antony for their Hogs St. Pelagius for their Oxon. Nay your several Trades-men have their particular Saints the Physicians are patronized by Cosmas and Damian as Aesculapius was to the Physicians in the time of Paganism The Heathens were wont to invok Lucina in the Pains of Child-birth but you do judge St. Margaret the better Midwife and therefore you pray to her The Pagan Sea-men they called upon Neptune but your Church judgeth St. Nicholas to have as much or more power than he therefore your Sea-men call upon him Your Painters have St. Luke for their Patron and the Pagan Painters had Appelles for theirs Your Porters have Goalus And the Hunts-men Eustachius Your Curtezans have St. Affra and St. Mary Magdalen You I suppose know who was the Patroness of the Pagan Ladies of Pleasure The Heathens did rely upon their particular Daemons for the cure of several Diseases and you rely upon your particular Saints St. Sebastian and St. Roch have a special priviledge to cure the Plague St. Petronilla the Fever with the help of St. Sigismund St. John and St. Bennet the Abbot to cure Poyson St. Apolonia the Tooth-ach St. Oliva fore Eyes St. Apollinarius the French-Pox for he had got that Employment since the discovery of the West Indies St. Vincentius hath a special faculty of restoring stoln Goods and St. Liberius doth infallibly cure the Stone and St. Faelicitas will give the Teeming Mother a fine Boy It is strange that if nothing but the Intercession of these Saints were intended that they cannot as well pray for other things as these or that they have no Commission to ask of those any thing else I pray Sir compare your Readings together and see whether or no the Heathens had not their particular Gods for these things to whom they did pay all Worship and therefore were charged by God himself with Idolatry and their Gods were termed Idols and the reason why they were Idolaters was because they gave Worship to their Gods which were but Creatures which was only due to the Creator You may say Sir that these Daemons or Inferiour Deities of the Heathens were the Souls of wicked men and Devils whereas those that are invocated and adored by us are the Spirits of just men and Angels And as to the distributing to every Saint his peculiar Office we are not tyed to defend the Superstitions of the Vulgar or the Abused To this Sir I must reply and tell you We

The first is that Hymn which you in your Church for what Reason or Etymology I know not and should be at little cost or trouble to be informed calleth a Sequence The Council of Constance did to Invocate the Blessed Virgiu in the same manner as the Council did use to Invocate the Holy Ghost they call her the Mother of Grace the Remedy to the Miserable the Fountain of Mercy and the Light of the Church Attributes proper to God and incommunicable they Sing her Praises and Pray to her for Grace they Sing to her with the Heart they call themselves her Sons they declare her to be their Health and Comfort in all Doubts they call on her for Light from Heaven they trust in her for the destruction of Heresies and the repression of Schisms and for the lasting Confederations of Peace This Piece of Service and Worship did the Prelates of that remarkable Council perform And Sir you may know that many approved Doctors of your Church have followed the Footsteps of those Counsellours One saith That she being the Mother of God who doth give the Holy Ghost are by her Hands administred to whom she pleaseth when she pleaseth and how she pleaseth and as much as she pleaseth Bernardin Senen Sermon 6. Art. 1. Cap. 8. Your Doctors have taught and I do not believe them Changlings That she is Constituted above every Creature and whosoever doth bow his Knee to Jesus doth fall down also and supplicate his Mother So that the Glory of the Son may be judged not to be so much common with the Mother as to be the same I will do your Writers no wrong for I will set down the very words of Barnerdinus Senensis which are these Mater est filii Dei qui producit Spiritum Sanctum Ideo omnia Dona Veritatis gratiae ipsius Spiritus Sancti quibus vult quando vult quomodo vult quantum vult per Manu ipsius administratum The other Saying hath for its Author Arnoldus De Laudibus Beatae Virginis Constituta est super omnem Creaturam quicunque Jesu Curvat Genu Matri quoque pronus supplicat filii gloriam cum Matre non tam communem Judico quam eandem But Sir to proceed there is another Saying of Bernardus Senensis Ipsa Dei Mater de omnipotentia filii sui ●ui est innixa quando vult sibi assumit de Bust Ma. P. 12. Ser. 2. That she assumeth to herself as much of the Omnipotency of her Son as she pleaseth Damian Serm. 1. de nat B. V. accedit ante aurum humanae Reconciliationis Altare non solum Rogans sed Imperans Domina non ancilla That she comes before the Altar of Human Reconciliation not Interceeding only but Commanding as Mistress not a Servant A Divine of your Church that was willing to shew the strength of his fancy tells us That the History of Ahasuerus in Esther was a figure of God's bestowing half his Kingdom upon the Blessed Virgin that having Justice and Mercy as the chiefest Goods of his Kingdom he retained Justice to himself and granted Mercy unto her Hence if a Man find himself agrieved in the Court of God's Justice he may appeal to the Court of the Mercy of his Mother she being that Throne of Grace whereof the Apostle speaketh in the Hebrews chap. 10. my Author is Gabriel Breit upon the Canon of the Mass Reading 80. Well Sir there is a Prayer to the Virgin Mary in the Psalter approved by th● Doctors of the Sorbonne that is well worth considering and 't is this My only Succour my Lips are bound to publish no other Praises but thine by thee the Head of the Serpent hath been bruised the World repaired thy Power is boundless unto thee I confess my Sins into thy Hands I commit my Soul come unto Mary all ye that have thirst pray unto her that with her Water she will wash away the filthiness of your Sins This Sir is your Devotion and how blasphemous it is I leave to the World to judge The latter part I suppose is intended for some pious Meditation rather than a Prayer but here you make her infinite in Power for you say her Power is boundless here you make her to have bruised the Head of the Serpent which is only to be attributed to Christ Jesus here you commend your Souls into her Hands who are all at the disposal of Almighty God. Christ saith Come unto me but your Doctors call upon Men to come to our Lady God through Christ hath Power to forgive Sins but you say the Virgin Mary hath that Power What can be greater Blasphemy then this In a word in this Prayer you give the Virgin the same Power that God himself hath nay some will give her more and impudently justifie themselves therein But at this also I do not wonder for your Barnardinus tells us That in respect of her God after a sort is more bound to us then we are to him Propter Beatam Virginem Deus quodamodo plus obligetur nobis quam nos sibi Then again the said Writer saith speaking to the Virgin Tu fecisti Majora ei qui Potens est she saith He that is mighty hath done great things for me but of her we may say she hath done greater things that is mighty The same Author further saith Though she be subject to God inasmuch as she is a Creature yet she is said to be superior and preferred before him inasmuch as she is his Mother And is not that the reason why ye direct more Prayers to her than to God himself Do you not teach your People to say ten Ave's for one Pater And she hath more days set apart for her then Christ himself I have but one thing more to trouble you with upon this Head and that is the Psalter of our Lady which is made in imitation of David's Psalms the Name of the great God is every-where put out and the who Name of the Virgin Mary is put in its place You know very well who the Author is that it was compiled by your Seraphical Doctor Bonaventure Bishop of Alba and Presbyter-Cardinal of your Church You may know also the great esteem it is in the Church of Rome it hath been several times Printed at Venice and Paris and else-where Instead of In thee O Lord you read it In thee O Lady have I put my trust let me never be confounded Instead of Let the Lord arise it is Let our Lady arise and let her Enemies be scatter'd And instead of O come let us sing unto our Lord it is O come let us sing unto our Lady let us make a joyful Noise unto the Queen of our Salvation Now whether these things can be said without horrible Blasphemy I suppose needs not much disputation From all which I must conclude that it is irrational to practise Praying to Saints and Angels because of the horrid Blasphemy those that perform this Worship and

Service are guilty of Sixthly The Practice of your Church in Praying to the Saints is irrational and abominable because upon a due consideration of what manner of Saints you Invocate they are such whose Saintship nay whose Existence is by us justly to be question'd I pray call to mind what Cassander one of your own Church speaketh by way of complaint in his Chapter De Meritis Intercessione Sanctorum These are his words The People do now almost despise the Old Saints and serve with more Affection the New whose Holiness is less certain Yea there are some of them of whom we may justly doubt whether ever they lived in the World. I. You pray to some of doubtful Saintship or Holiness who instead of reigning in Heaven it may be are frying in Hell. You I suppose very well know that I do not now speak without Authority for it is a famous Saying of Gregory the Great That the Bodies of many Persons are Worshipped on Earth whose Souls are tormented in Hell. This is not only the opinion of one Doctor but Thomas of Aquine and Cardinal Cajetan and others do acknowledge that in a matter of Fact his Infallible Holiness may be mistaken and that his Holiness may be in an Errour in this very business of Canonization And many of your Church have taken great offence at that prostitution of Devotion usual in your Publick Assemblies to every upstart new Saint Do you not in this Worship many times ye know not what Christ put the Question to the Samaritan Woman give me leave to put the same to you I pray Who is it that you Worship How came they to be the Objects of your Worship and great Devotion paid to them in your Churches after they were dead whose Conversations were much questioned whilst alive against whom many Scandals were proved How many of your Saints Sir have been made f●r Money Many of them Traytors to the Government under which they then lived It would be an endless Task for me to make Observations upon the Lives of some of your Saints Murderers and common Disturbers of the Peace of Christendom Sir I will instance in the Lives of those Saints that have been of Note in the English Nation The first Instance that I shall give you is that of Austin the Monk and Archbishop of Canterbury who was sent into this our Nation by Gregory the Great and therefore called by your Church The Great Apostle of England this Monk with others were by this Gregory sent into this Island to turn the People to the Romish Religion which Augustine when through his pretended Holiness or rather Hypocrisie had got a Party to own him and had obtained of King Ethelbert to be Archbishop of Canterbury and Primate of all England went into Wales where he found many Godly and Learned Bishops and Preachers of God's most Holy Word which sincerely and truly taught the Doctrine of the Scriptures and rightly administred the Sacraments according to Christ's Institution whom this Austin the Monk laboured to the best of skill and power to allure from the Sincerity and Simplicity of Christ's Religion unto the Superstition and Idolatry of your Church setting out that he was a Legate of the Most Holy Father the Pope sent from Rome and that he was made and ordained the chief Bishop and Primate of all England and therefore he commanded them to obey him and his Doctrine and to receive that Most Holy Father of Rome and his Religion but the Godly and Learned Fathers boldly answer'd That they were already true Christians and according to the Word of God they governed their Churches therefore would neither obey him nor submit themselves to the Authority of that strange Romish Bishop nor yet receive his strange Superstitious Ceremonies but continue as heretofore they had done in their old way of serving of God. For which cause Austin the Monk with his Companions departed and being not satisfied with the entertainment these holy men gave him he found a way to give these Christians great trouble because they would not obey him nor comply with the Bishop of Rome's pretended Title over them This develish Priest he complained to King Ethelbert that the Britains would neither obey him nor any man but only the Archbishop of Carleon which thing thus represented to the King it moved him to wrath and threatned to destroy them all Writing to Elfrid King of Northumberland that he would come to him with all the Force he could raise and that he would meet him at Leicester and from thence they would go into Wales and destroy the Archbishop of Carleon and all those who had refused to obey Austin and his Doctrine When these holy men heard of this and that the two Kings with their Armies did approach to the end they might destroy them they sent unto the Kings certain holy and good men who went barefoot and with all Humility and Meckness besought them to cease from so ungodly an Action But these wicked Kings would not speak to these holy men but presently order'd them to be slain which was presently done being in number five hundred and forty some say eleven hundred And from thence these Kings went to Bangor in order to destroy all the Britains but they having received notice of the intentions of these instigated Princes they assembled themselves and raised all the Force they could resolving to fight in the defence of their Religion and Country so that in the Battel King Ethelbert was slain by the just Judgment of God and Kind Elfrid was sore wounded in the Battel and forced most shamefully to fly the whole Army also were defeated and almost all destroyed Thus God gave his Servants Victory over their Enemies Ex Chron. Angl. This Sir is a Saint to whom great Devotions are paid by your Church for that as your Divines say he was the first that brought the Faith into this Land which is false the Faith having been Received by the Inhabitants thereof many hundred years before he was born But behold his Pride and Cruelty two Vices that did rather intitle him a Devil than a Saint His Pride is sufficiently set forth by Venerable Bede who tells us That he did disdain to rise up in token of Reverence to seven Bishops and other Learned and Grave men of Britain when they made their appearance at his Council And because of this his Pride they would not hearken to his Demands nor take him for their Archbishop thinking that if he carried himself so insolently to them whilst a Stranger what Respect might they hope for when they came under his Jurisdiction His Cruelty appears in stirring up two Kings to commit such barbarous Murders Now Sir what reason have we to pray to such a Saint as this that had stained his Life with such foul Crimes as these Besides I could never yet read of his Repentance for that Bloud which he had occasioned to be shed Nay see but the old Chronicle written in

French above three hundred years ago by Thomas Gray a Member of your own Church you shall find him thus to speak Austin being thus Refused of the Bishops and other learned men of the Britains made such complaint thereof unto Ethelbert King of Kent that he forthwith levyed his Power and marched against them and slew many of them most barbarously c. Hereby it appears that he was not only proud but envious and an inflamer of Wars and a causer of Slaughters yet a Saint and much Devotion paid to him He did not only stir up War but went in person himself in company with the Kings that made War against the innocent Britains I shall be so far from praying to such a Saint that instead thereof I and all Protestants must pray From such a Saint good Lord deliver us Another of your Saints is St. Anselmn he is a person that is canonized and by your Church he is worshipped and prayed to therefore I shall observe to you a little of his Saintship which appeared in his behaviour to Henry the First his Soveraign Lord with what Impudence Insolence and Disloyalty did he carry himself to that King till he was forced to banish this Anselmn the Realm and so he continued for some time till the King partly through fear of the displeasure of the Bishop of Rome who was then very potent and partly through his Zeal to the Church of Rome did permit the return of this Bishop who when he was returned made such havock in the Church of England as never the like was heard of before and what Wars he occasion'd testifieth that he was no Saint on Earth I doubt therefore the Pope could upon no terms justifie his being canonized and you can by no means be justified in paying any Devotion to such a Wretch Ex Chron. Angl. p. 253. Another of your Saints is Thomas Becket whom you call St. Thomas of Canterbury The Prayers you make to him are so extravagant that flesh and bloud is not able to bear them they are so full of Blasphemy that it 's a shame they should be named amongst Christians him you call a Saint and Martyr But Sir to be plain with you he was neither Saint nor Martyr 't is true he was slain at Canterbury but the true cause of his death was his Ambition and Vanity and Wilful maintaining of manifest Wickedness of the Clergy to the dishonour of God's holy Name as by the Writers of that time it doth fully appear and for proof of this I pray be pleased to read the Story of Guilielmus Nubrigensis that lived in the same Age with this high and mighty Saint of yours who thus writeth of Becket That Henry the Second took him into his especial Favour and being only the Arch-deacon of Canterbury made him Lord Chancellour of his Realm and so treated him with all kind of Honour that he seemed to Reign as well as the King that afterwards he promoted him to the Archbishoprick of Canterbury and sent him to the Council of Towers then holden in France being there as upon some remorse of Conscience he misliked and secretly refused the King's Gift and resigned the Archbishoprick unto the Pope and received it again at his hands and so he secretly betrayed his Princes Right unto a Stranger At his return there grew a great Question within this Realm touching the Prerogative of the Clergy The Judges complaining that there were many Rapes and Robberies and Murders committed within the Realm to the number of one hundred by Ecclesiastical Persons and therefore made Request to the Parliament That some consideration might be had of it for that they themselves being Temporal Ministers had neither Law nor Jurisdiction against them As for the Bishops saith Nubrigensis whose part it was to see such Disorders corrected of so many thousand wicked Priests they never degraded nor punished so much as one for they saith he seeking more carefully how to maintain the Dignity and Liberties of their Clergy than the Correction of their Manners think they do good Service to God and his Church if they maintain wicked Priests against the Government whereby saith he it cometh to pass That the Priests that should shine as the Stars in Heaven having free liberty to do what they list care neither for God nor Man for redress whereof the King was resolved to take Order by his Parliament all the rest of the Bishops not one excepted agreed thereunto and confirmed the same under their Seals only Thomas Becket Archbishop of Canterbury stood stiff and stout and would not yield afterwards when he saw the King's displeasure grew against him in the Morning before he should come to make his Answer he caused the Mass of St. Stephen's Office to be sung with this Preface Sederunt Principes c. The Kings sat down to speak against me and the wicked sought to persecute me This done he took his Silver Cross in his hand and went boldly to the Court but perceiving the King was much moved and misliked his stoutness the next Night following he fled over into France and afterwards sought Aid of the Pope at the last being reconciled unto his Prince and returning again into England he brought with him the Pope's Suspension and thereby suspended all the Bishops of the Realm and would never agree to release them by reason of which the whole Church and Kingdom was much disorder'd and shortly after ensued his Death This is the true Story of Thomas Becket Lib. 2. Cap. 16. Sir not only Neubrigensis but also Baronius by the account he gives of Beckett shews us That they were both strongly of the opinion that the Pope was out when he Canonized this Becket and commanded the People of England annually to Celebrate the Day of his Passion and that by Prayer to him they should endeavour to merit the remission of their Sins Now Sir this Becket for ought that can appear by these your own Historians was a proud Praelate a Rebel to his Prince one that had set the Nation in a Flame to defend the Pope's Quarrel against the King and when he dyed was rather the Pope's Martyr then Gods. Seeing he dyed not for the Faith of Christ but for the Defence of the Popish Tyranny and Usurpation This Sir is owned That the People were so devoutly Affected to this new Saint that in respect of him they had little or no Consideration of the Blessed Virgin or of Christ himself and to incourage the Peoples Devotion many Stories were told and Reports made of the many Miracles that were by him wrought on them that did pray unto him I fear Sir I shall move your Patience I will but instance in one Saint more whose Saintship I must call in Question so do all the Reformed Divines it is St. Francis the great Founder of the Order of Fryars called Franciscans he is no ordinary Person in your Church you make him equal with Christ in his Birth Life Temptations

Doctrine Miracles and what not This and a great deal more may be Read of him in his Book of Conformities which was Published with Allowance in the Year 1590. of him Turcelline Sings Qui Franciscus erat nunc tibi Christus erit Your Bonaventure Sware at Paris That it was revealed to him by Almighty God that Saint John by the Angel that had the Seal of the Living God in the Revelations was meant no other then this Saint Francis yea such is your Esteem of this Intercession that some of you have preferred it to Christs and say Christus Oravit Franciscus exoravit Christ hath Prayed and Francis Obtained I pray you seriously to Read his Book of Conformities and Bonaventure of his Life and if you please those other Chronicles and Records under the Hands of Writers that were of your own Communion then you will soon find that he was a strange sort of a Saint and that he did a multitude of things that argued him destitute of common Sence What can you say of a Man that shall Preach to Birds and Beasts and salute them kindly saying Brother Bird and Brother Beast How can you approve of his taking up the Lyce that were fallen from his Garments and putting them on again for fear of wronging those Innocent Creatures What can be said for his cutting his Garments in pieces and giving them away What account can be given of his tumbling in the Mire unless it were some significant Ceremony you must certainly have more Sence than to justifie his making his Crucifixes of Mortar as Children do Babies of Dirt. What can you say for his making a Wife of Snow and embracing her to Allay his Amarous and Lustful Heat These with many more such rediculous Actions shew him to be no Saint but rather a Bedlam Sick-brained Creature What reason then for his being Sainted Why should he be Adored Sir In short concerning the Doctrine and Practice itself I may say to you as our Lord said to the Woman of Samaria Ye worship ye know not what such are St Fingare St. Anthony of Padua Charles Borromaeus Ignatius Loyola Xaverius and many more of whom Cardinal Bessarion complains that many of them were such persons whose Lives he could not approve of and such concerning whom they know nothing but from their own parties and by pretended revelations made to particular and Hypocondraical persons In Libro de Sanctis Hibernicis Another of your own Writers Augustinus Triumphus affirms that all who are Canonized by the Pope cannot be said to be in Heaven and this is apparent beyond all dispute for Prateolus tells us that Herman the Author of the Heresie of the Fratricelli was for Twenty years together honoured for a Saint and at last his body was taken up and burnt but then since as Ambrosius Catharinus and Vivaldus observes if one Saint be called in question then the rest may what will become of the Devotions that have been paid to such Saints as have been Canonized for these last eight hundred years concerning whom we can have but slender Evidence that they are in Heaven at all and therefore the Cardinal of Cambray Petrus de Aliaco wishes that so many new Saints were not Canonized Secondly You Worship some Saints who are of dubious Existence as well as Holiness as many of your Saints have been suspected so you have many feigned or fabulous Saints in your Church In the Breviary of Sarum I find you there pray to Saint Christopher so in the Roman Breviary this Saint Sir your Divines and other Writers have supposed him to be a Giant of prodigious stature Mantuan Lib. 7. Fast saith he was many Ells high Ludovicus Vives saith he saw a Tooth of his bigger then his Fist your Writers report That he carried Christ over Marinum Flumen an Arm of the Sea and at last became a Martyr of Christ This Saint is in much request though but an imaginary one Who could ever have thought that any number of Men should be so besotted as to worship such a Saint that rather is a Monster than a Saint or only a nominal Saint of whom we have no account but what is romantick or fabulous Another Office we find to the three Kings of Cullen King Jasper King Melchior and King Balthazer and are intreated by the King of Kings whom they merited to see crying in his Cradle to shew compassion to their Petitioners in their distress And in another Office we find for the most Holy Vrsula and eleven thousand Virgins who you say were her Companions in Martyrdom and were killed at Cullen as your Writers tell us by the barbarous Hunns where they were all Interred and many of their precious Relicks reserved to this day and it did not a little encourage them in their Martyrdom that Christ had sent his Vicar amongst them Pope Ceriacus to absolve them from their Sins and to die a Martyr with them but there is so great a difference and disagreement amongst your Writers that we of the Reformed Religion must be excused if we doubt whether there were any such number of Virgin-Martyrs or no and must suppose your Church to be in a great Errour to Pray to Saints of which she herself hath great reason to doubt I could give you several other instances of these sort of Saints as the Seven Sleepers who slept in the time of grievous Persecution three hundred sixty two years till the time of Theodosius at which time they awaked and are Worshipped as Saints in your Church And St. Longuinus the Soldier that with his Launce pierced our Lord Jesus upon the Cross and being almost blind with the sparkling of that Blood immediately received his sight of which the Evangelist makes no mention though a most considerable passage this Saint you say upon receiving his Sight believed and being instructed by the Apostles forsook his Military Profession and lived thirty eight years a Monastick Life and was at last Martyred for the Christian Faith. If this had been true I am sure his Name would not have been omitted and therefore I must conclude it to be a meer fiction and that there was no such Saint To conclude therefore this Argument upon a serious view of the Roman Breviary I have met with many more of this sort yea which some of your own Church calls Symbolical Saints which are yet Worshipped and Invooared with the greatest formality but this is sufficient to prove that your Praying to Saints and Angels is absurd and irrational and abominable in the sight of God. Give me leave Sir now to make some observation upon those Testimonies you did produce in your Letter to Mr. Needham to prove the lawfulness of Invocation and Adoration of Saints The first Advocate you bring upon the Stage is St. Athanasius who you say in his Book De Incarnatione Verbi hath these words Hearken O Daughter of David and Abraham and stoop thy Ears to our Prayers and forget not thy People we

lift up our Voice to thee Remember us Holy Virgin and return us for these inconsiderable Speeches great Gifts and Riches of your Grace Hail most Gracious the Lord is with thee Interceed O Mistress O Lady O Queen and Mother of God. Sir I must tell you a Story that this Athanasius is said to be the Author of and that considered you will find these words thus cited to smell more of Rome than of Alexandria Your Divines represent him to tell a mighty formal Story of an Image that was abused by the Priests of the Jews the Story is this A Christian having occasion to remove his Family from an House he had long inhabited amongst his other Goods he had an Image of Christ equal to him in length and breadth and in all proportion through forgetfulness leaveth it in a secret place in his House out of which he removed after him a Jew doth inhabit the same House for some time and seeth not the Image a strange Jew sitting there at Dinner immediately espyeth it standing open against a Wall. This is your Athanasius not Bishop of Alexandria but an Athanasius of your own making one while it is open and another while it is in a secret place The Priests and the Jews came together and abuse it with all Villany they Crown it with Thorns and make it drink Vinegar Gall and stick it to the Heart with a Spear out issueth Blood in a great quantity the Powers of Heaven are shaken the Sun is darkned and the Moon looseth her light and from hence saith your young Athanasius we have had Hailstones of Blood and all other like Blood throughout the World. Nay you make him to tell another doughty Story How that Nicodemus that came to Jesus by Night made an Image of Christ with his own Hands and that when he lay upon his Death-bed he deliver'd it to Gamaliel that was Schoolmaster to St. Paul and when that Gamaliel saw that he should die he deliver'd it to James and James left it to Symon and Zacheus which Image came from hand to hand by Succession and continued a long time at Hierusalem and from thence it was carried into Syria and from thence into a City called Berytus not far from Tyre and Sydon where it was abused by the Jews and a great many Wonders were shew'd by that Image This Sir is Athanasius of your Church but not St. Athanasius the Bishop of Alexandria And he that was the Author of these Fables was the Author of that blasphemous Prayer to the Virgin Mary For I suppose you well know that St. Athanasius wrote concerning that matter and the Heresie of the Arrians gave him occasion for it They maintained That Christ was a meer Creature and yet they prayed to him He on the contrary asserted That if he were Created he must not be Invocated and Adored Observe his third Oration against the Arrians To God alone saith he it belongeth to be Worshipped and the Angels themselves are not ignorant hereof for although they excel in Glory yet they are Creatures and are none of those that are Worshipped but of those that Worship the Lord. Again Because that Jesus Christ is not a Creature but is begotten of the Substance of his Father and is by Nature the Son of God therefore is he to be Worshipped 'T is true the Arrians did Worship Christ but it was not upon a good consideration for they Worshipped Christ upon the account that the Word of God abided in him This great Doctor shews them the absurdity of the Reason of their Worshipping of Christ For saith he by the same Reason you may Worship the Saints who have the Word of God abiding in them He doth not at all countenance the Worshipping of Saints but shews that the Worshipping of Saints is the sad consequence of Worshipping of Christ because the Word of God did dwell in him You are pleased to represent St. Athanasius to say thus If you Worship the Man Christ because the Word of God dwelleth there at the same time Worship also the Saints on God's account who hath his Word dwelling in them which you make use of to prove the lawfulness of Praying to Saints when as he useth it as an Absurdity the Arrians run into they Worshipping the Man Jesus only as the Word of God dwelling in him Another Author for Praying to Saints is St. Cyril of Alexandria at the Council of Ephesus who presided in that Council as Pope Caelestine's Legate and at the Second Action or Session of that Council in the Presence of the Bishops that sat in Council and in their Names and in the Names of the whole Council he you say spake these words Hail in all our Names Holy Mother of God most excellent Ornament of the whole World unextinguishable Lamp Crown of Virginity Scepter of right Doctrine Temple never to be destroyed the Dwelling-place of him that cannot be contained within any place Mother and Virgin by whom he is named Blessed in the Gospel who comes in the Name of our Lord. Hail you that did bare in your Holy Virgin 's Womb him that is Immense and Incomprehensible by whom the Holy Trinity is glorified and adored the universal World over by whom the Earth exults by whom Angels and Arch-Angels rejoyce by whom the Devils are put to flight then you say he concludes That none can sufficiently praise that glorious Virgin and ends his whole Discourse with these words Let us fear and worship the undivided Trinity Celebrating with Praises Mary the ever Blessed Virgin to wit the Holy Temple of God and her Son and immaculate Spouse This you say was plain and full and so say I But how do you prove 1. That Cyril was there President of the Council of Ephesus as Legate to Pope Coelestine 2. How do you prove that he said the Words in the Name of the whole Council 3. How do you prove that ever he spake them at all These are three Particulars worthy of consideration I perceive your great Voucher and if so the whole thing is to be suspected as a meer Forgery of your Church You are pleased to give the Words in Greek to Mr. Needham who understands Greek and so do others yet your putting it into Greek will give you no Reputation in this point only that you may understand Greek Therefore Sir Consider in the first place that Cyril of Alexandria did not preside in that Council by Virtue of any Legantine Authority he received from the Bishop of Rome for the Bishop of Rome did not Summon that Council nor indeed had he that Power in him for the first five hundred years after Christ For Cusanus a Cardinal of your Church saith Authoritas Consilii non ita sependit a Congregante ut nisi a Papa congregetur non sit Concillium quia tunc omnia Octo Vniversalia Concilia non fuissent firma quoniam per Imperatores Conv●cata Leguntur Romanus Pontifex instar aliorum Patriarcharum

which was soon after Eusebius knew him not neither had he ever seen or spoken with him before Nazianzen in vita Basilii and Greg. Presb. in vita Nazianz. Your Amphilochius saith that Basil was Bishop of Caesaria in the time of Julian the Emperour whereupon he tells a great many fond Fables of that Holy Basil Nazianzen his nearest Friend saith that he was chosen a Bishop there a long time after in the time of Valens the Emperour and was not there Bishop all the time of Julian Your Amphilochius tells a Canterbury Story how that St. Mercury being then dead and a Saint in Heaven at the Command of the Virgin Mary took his own Speare out of his Chappel where it was kept and went out of the same into the Field and slew the Emperour Julian and that the same Speare was found bloudy afterwards Nazianzen Socrates and Sozomen and Theodoret say It could never be known by whom that cursed Apostate was slain Nazianz. in Oratione contra Julianum Socrat. Lib. 3. c. 18. Soz. lib. 6. c. 2. Theod. lib. 3. c. 25. Your Amphilochius tells us that Basil foretold the Death of Julian but Theodoret saith it was one Julianus Saba and not Basil Theodoret. Lib. 3. c. 2. Your Amphilochius saith that Valens the Emperour did yield unto Basil and gave him place but Sozomen saith that the Emperour persisted in his Resolution and would not yield but persisted in his Obstinacy against St. Basil Your Amphilochius saith that Nazianzen was present at St. Basil's Burial but Nazianzen in his Monodia saith he came after his Burial and was not present of these two which must we believe Gregorius Presbyter that wrote Nazianzen's Life saith that he came a great while after that Basil was buried but your Amphilochius saith that Nazianzen came in and saw the blessed Body and fell upon it when it was buried upon which you may see that your Author did not lay his Lyes together so close but that they may be detected for if St. Gregory Nazianzen saw St. Basil's Body how was it buried if it were buried how could he see the Body but you may see where the Prayer to St. Basil was invented for he saw the Body saith Amphilochius and from thence we conclude that he is your Author for this Prayer Now Sir What Credit can we give to this Author that hath set himself up to contradict Authors that are even to this day of great Credit with the Divines of your Church I wonder that you should Rank him amongst the Fathers that is so young as to write the Life of Thomas Becket which was seven hundred years after your Divines suppose him to have lived and in quoting this Author you very much betray your self for do but observe the Impudence of the Man to pretend that he wrote St. Basil's Life and that St. Basil dedicated his Book called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 unto him the said Amphilochius Since Nazianzen reckoning up all St. Basil's Books in his Monodia and passeth that Book by as none of his and Sozomen writeth Lib. 3. c. 13. that it was judged not to be St. Basil's but the Work of one Eustathius a notable Heretique a Book full of Superstition and wicked Doctrine and condemn'd by the Council of Gangra praefat in Concil Gangren but you did consider better of it and therefore omitted that Author in your Letter to Mr. Needham Another Instance for praying to Saints is Nectarius Patriarch of Constantinople who as you say preceded St. Chrysostom This Prelate having given an account why St. Theodore's Feast was kept on the Saturday of the first week in Lent to wit in Thanksgiving to the Saint for having in a Vision forewarned the Patriarch of Constantinople that Saint during the Persecution of Julian that the Apostate designed to pervert or destroy all the Christians by permitting no Meat to be sold in the Market but such as had been offer'd to the Idols and besprinkled with the Bloud of those abominable Victims and advis'd him to prepare such a provision of Bisquets as would suffice his Flock to feed upon Whilst the Markets were thus shut up to them and for having thus secured their Religion and Lives he makes this following Prayer to the Saint The words of the Prayer you say are these O Splendor of the Martyrs Glory of the Saints O worthy Gift of God O Vnconquered Keeper and Defender of the Faithful be not unmindful of our Poverty and Dejectedness but vouchsafe thou always to pray for us O most Admirable Man nor do thou despise us who are daily assailed by Julian the Spiritual one who both then and now is the Author of Evil the Enemy of our Souls for we believe that you live after Death Thou then who art yet alive in Christ and standeth near unto him endeavour by thy Prayers to make him Gracious unto us thy Servants that freed by thee from the present Miseries we may attain unto the happiness that is there reserved for us I pray good Sir in what part of Nectarius his Works is this Prayer found What Historian that writes his Life hath this Prayer There is one Euthymius that your Divines suppose to be an Ancient Greek Father I thought you would have quoted him but I commend you for your Modesty you have recourse to Bellermine who directs you to Lippomanes who I suppose you do not esteem an Ancient Father for he was Bishop of Verona he filled two mighty Volumes of this Stuff which were printed at Venice and Lovaine about a 120 years ago This Father Aloysius Lippomanes you will find to have no Credit he being so young an Author besides it 's well known that Julian was dead twenty years before Nectarius was installed in that Patriarchate of Constantinople and therefore sat not in the time of Julian's Persecution and stood in no need of St. Theodore's Advice in that business of providing of Bisquet for his Flock which your Lippomanes takes no notice of and if no such Restraint were put upon the Christians by the said Julian then what Obligation lay upon Nectarius to return St. Theodore thanks and that there could be no such design of Julian in the time of the said Nectarius for that he was as I observed before dead twenty years before Nectarius was Patriarch of Constantinople The last Prayer you offer was that of St. Gregory Nazianzen O Venerable Virgin chast and most happy hear my Voice benignly and grant me that which is chief of all viz. That departing this Life I may find thee to be my Patron This is another of your Prayers you say but this smells so like the Church of Rome that I must suspect it till you are pleased to tell me where you find this Prayer in the Works of St. Nazianzen Doth not your Amphilochius help you here at a dead lift Gregorius Presbyter that wrote the Life of Nazianzen saith nothing of it nor do I find it in any of his Works If Amphilochus doth

not I pray how far doth your Aloysius Lippomanes give you his assistance For they are a couple of Fathers your Church hath of late coyned to help them in the time of need but if you did find it in Nazianzen I pray tell us where that we may give you a more satisfactory Reply but if you have none but your young Authors we judge it a Forgery of your Church Then you proceed to produce your Authority from those Fathers which did defend the Practice of Invocation of Saints and the first you produce is that of St. Gregory Nyssen which I have replyed to already and will say something more You tell us that in his Oration upon St. Theodore that he saith The Christians call on the Martyr as on God's Minister who being Invocated by them is able to impetrate for them what Favours he pleaseth To this Sir give me leave to say That where the Fathers are contrary to the Word of God there we must leave them where they are agreeable there we do agree with them but you have so ordered the matter that you make the Fathers speak your own sence by your frequent Forgeries putting that upon them which they never speak or else leaving out what they did really say And this Father's Expression doth look like a Forgery of your Church for I find in the Life of St. Theodore written by St. Gregory Nyssen who wrote it with much Eloquence in the Praise of the Church where the Monument of that Holy Martyr was kept and speaks of the Excellency of the Image that was made for the said Saint which did so lively represent him as if the whole Story of him were written in a Book And in his Oration upon that Martyr he doth by a passionate Apostraphe direct himself to the Image but that he prayed to that Saint as if he could hear him that I deny Because that in his Writings against Eunominus he saith We are to Worship and Adore that Nature alone which is uncreated whose Character is this That it neither at any time began to be nor ever shall cease to be Contr. Eunom Lib. 5. But from these Words of St. Gregory you cannot prove such an Invocation as points the least at any Adoration intended by him to this or any other Saint but certain it is that this extravagant way of speaking to St. Theodore is by no means to be justified it being repugnant to the Word of God and tending to the countenancing of an heathenish Custom viz. Of bringing Images into the Churches Euseb Lib. 7. Cap. 16. Who saith That the Use of Images was brought into the Churches first by the Heathens and St. Hierom tells you the decking of them was to deceive the simple Argento Auro decoravit illud ut fulgore utriusque Materiae dicipiat simplices qui quidem Error ad nos usque transivit ut Religionem in divitiis arbitremur Hieron in Jer. Lib. 2. Cap. 10. He adorneth his Image with Silver and Gold that by the lustre and glory of both these Metals he may deceive the simple which Errour crept in amongst us so that now we think our Religion standeth in Riches I say this was the consequence of those high flown Apostrophes and Invocating them though they intended no Worship to them for they were convinced that the Saints could not hear them therefore the end of their calling upon them was the more to induce their Hearers to follow the good Example of these Saints whose Works they magnified and in their transports of Zeal they did call upon them as some of the Fathers did upon other things which I am sure they did never believe that they were capable of hearing them Thus it was with this holy Nyssen in this Oration upon St. Theodore and means and intends no Prayer at all to be made to him but only a naming his Name and Works that his good Example might be followed Your Doctrine of the Saints Intercession is no ways proved for St. Gregory intends no more than to shew you that those who name his Name and profess the Faith he professed and that the consideration of his holy Life and glorious Martyrdom working in them a willingness of obedience to the Will of God they might obtain those Favours God usually bestows on his Church Blessings suitable to the great Sufferings and Services of his Saints and this all Protestants do own that God for the sake of his Saints that have been eminent in their day hath been pleased to shew great Mercy to his People by their Example of Holiness and Obedience and couragious Sufferings many have been brought to God and many have been confirmed in the Faith of Jesus Christ and an holy emulation hath been by this means occasion'd amongst Christians who should out-vie each other in Practices suitable to the glorious Gospel which they profess in the World by following the Examples of those Saints whose Names they had in continual remembrance You say That St. Basil is evidently plain the Martyr called by his Name sheweth himself present to as many as call by his Works Behold say you he useth the same terms which express the Invocation of God in Zachary Sir I must own that the Saints of God have left sweet Memorials of their Holiness and Piety and in this Sence they may be said to be present but by calling upon the Saints the holy Doctor doth not at all imply any Prayer to them but only professing the Holiness and Faith for which they laid down their Lives I pray Sir observe the words of the Prophet Zachary 13 chap. 9. They shall call upon my Name and I will hear them I will say it is my People and they shall say the Lord is my God. Where the words of the Prophet are not so much to be understood an actual Prayer to God as an acknowledgment of him and these words I will hear them we may understand thus much I will own them Those shall be owned by Almighty God that acknowledge him both in respect of his Justice in correcting them and in his Mercy in preserving them which explication of the words is justified by the following words I will say it is my People and they shall say the Lord is my God. And Sir give me leave to tell you that St. Basil saith thus much and no more That the Christians have great reason to own the Martyrs and are justified in so doing for that they art yet present by their own Works and by those good Examples they have left us St. Paul saith Let every one that nameth the Name of Christ depart from Iniquity So let every one that nameth the Name of this or that Saint or Martyr depart from Iniquity let Men not only call them by their Names or pretend to own them by an outward Profession only since they are present by their Works that is their Examples are left for us to follow But what reason you had to bring this

Saying of St. Basil to prove your Doctrine of the lawfulness of the Practice of your Church in Praying to Saints And why you should think to corroberate your Authority with the Saying of the Prophet Zachary that I must leave to you to consider of for at the present I do not see any tendancy that way by the words of St. Basil Another Testimony you produce was an Observation of St. Augustine on the Blessing of Job Gen. 48. to wit that not only Exaudition but Invocation is used in reference to Men as well as to God where your Printer I conceive was mistaken for there was no mention made of the Blessing of Job but there is mention made of the Blessing of Jacob in the fifteenth and sixteenth Verses of that Chapter where the Text saith That Jacob blessed Joseph and said God before whom my Fathers Abraham and Isaac walked and the God which fed me all my life long until this day The Angel which redeemed me from all evil bless the Lads and let my Name be named on them and the Name of my Fathers Abraham and Isaac and let them grow into a Multitude in the middest of the Earth Now I pray Sir what do you infer from these words I suppose that you lay some stress upon these words The Angel which delivered me from all evil bless the Lads and from the Names used of Abraham and Isaac you would prove the Lawfulness of the Invocation of Angels and that the Saints do interceed for us that could not be Jacob's meaning For Sir it was not Angelus Domini that Jacob points at but at Angelus Dominus who is called the Angel of the Covenant and him only Jacob doth Invoke for a Blessing for when he saw this Angel he saith I have seen God face to face and my Life is preserved Gen. 32. 30. And that the naming of Abraham and Isaac doth imply the Intercession of Abraham and Isaac in the behalf of his two Grandchildren is an Errour for according to the Sence of Bellarmine one of your own Church and Order it was not the manner under the Old Testament for Men to apply themselves to the Saints and he gives this reason The Fathers were then shut up in Prison and did not see the Face of God therefore if this be true you must not conclude the Doctrine of the Intercession of the Saints from these words or that they were to be prayed unto You further cite St. Augustine and you bring him in saying The Christian People celebrate together the Memory of the Martyrs a Religious Solemnity both to excite an imitation of them and that they be partakers of their Merits and be assisted by their Prayers That the Christians did meet to praise God together for the holy Lives and happy Deaths of God's most blessed Saints and Martyrs Sir is no question and that they did it in a most Religious Solemn Manner is beyond all doubt and that they did in order to follow these good Examples that were recorded of these Saints is as clear And what of all this They did Meet together to celebrate the Memory of the holy Martyrs Ergo They prayed to them They met to Celebrate the Memory of the holy Martyrs to excite an Imitation of them Ergo They prayed to them This is not Logick fit for a Man of your Station and Character certainly no such Logick was taught in any of your Philosophy Schools at Liege You may know that in such Religious Assemblies congregated for the commemoration of the Saints and Martyrs the Priests did recite the Names of the Martyrs together with some short account of their holy Lives and heavenly Exits they made and of the Miracles that were wrought by them but I do not observe any Prayer or Prayers were made to them they did praise God for them and did pray to God to give them Grace to follow their good Examples and performed many Works of Charity in token of the sincerity of their Prayers But I do not find that any Direction is given by that holy Father for any Adoration or Worship to be paid to them You will say the great end for which they did Celebrate together the Memory of the Martyrs was that they might be partakers of their Merits and be assisted by their Prayers Here are two things worthy of observation 1. What is to be understood by being made partakers of the Merits of the Martyrs 2. What is to be understood by being assisted by their Prayers and both these seriously considered may I humbly conceive satisfie any reasonable Man. To the first then by the Merits of the Saints I apprehend the holy Doctor intends no more than those Gifts and Graces with which the Martyrs were indued both in their Lives and at their Deaths and that those that did meet together to commemorate these Martyrs did pray for those Gifts and Graces with which these Martyrs were indued and by which they arrived to that degree of perfection that their Lives and Deaths were Sacrifices with which God was well pleased therefore to infer that because the Christians meet together to commemorate the Martyrs to the end they might be made partakers of those Gifts and Graces with which the Martyrs were indued from on high That therefore they prayed to the Saints is a consequence which you would not allow in any other case whatsoever And Secondly consider the words of that great Saint and light of Gods Church and let us see what is to be understood by being assisted by the Prayers of the Martyrs I have observed that the blood of the Martyrs do cry How long O Lord holy and true dost thou not judge and avenge our blood Revel 6. 10. Abels blood it did call to Heaven Gen. 4. 10. If you will call this praying the point will soon be at an end If by these prayers the faithful may be said to be in a sort assisted then you and I shall not need to debate the Controversie any further for we shall soon put a period to this difference Nay Sir your own Divines from those words in the Revelations do teach That the Saints of God are present at their Tombs and Monuments and Relicks and have cited St. Jerome to prove the same And therefore I perceive it is that the Christians did meet together to commemorate the Martyrs at their respective Tombs or Monuments because from thence their cry did go to Heaven and by virtue of such Prayers and crys of these Martyrs the Church received benefit for calling for vengeance upon the wicked implies a calling for Mercy upon the Church In this sence they may be said to pray as blood may be said to have a Voice and Cry and doth it follow that because their blood doth pray and their blood hath a voice and doth Cry that we must pray to them I pray Sir in your next lay your Arguments a little closer and conclude aright from your Premises The Martyrs Prayers do assist

the faithful Ergo the faithful must pray to the Martyrs no young Logician would be guilty of such Reasoning You call St. Austin again to your Aid to prove that there was an Invocation and Adoration used at the Meetings of Christians to commemorate the Martyrs We offer to thee O Peter O Paul O Cyprian What was it that was offered pray in your next let us have the whole sence of the Father these are imperfect sayings and we will reply to them in the next but this by the way The words are no more than a Rhetorical Apostrophe to the Images or Tombs of these Saints The reason you say the holy Doctor gives for their Invocation is because of the Oblation they make to God who hath Crowned the Martyrs their Martyrdom was a Sacrifice with which God was well pleased and their Holiness comes up as a Memorial before God for he is not unmindful of their Blood which still doth cry from under the Altar which after a certain manner we may term an Oblation And in this Sence that great Doctor saith They make an Oblation But what then Because St. Austin doth Invocate the Saints that therefore he prays to them You know Sir Invocation doth not imply a belief that the Person Invocated doth hear or that the Person Invoked is prayed unto And this Sir will be made appear from those Divines and Doctors for which you have no small esteem I suppose Sir you have not forgotten that in your Church you use thus to Salute the holy Oyl Ave Sanctum Oleum All Hail thou holy Oyl Nor do I believe but that within a few days you did thus Salute a Cross of Wood or Silver or Brass Ave Rex noster I am confident you have prayed to the Cross thus O Crux ave spes unica hoc Passionis Tempore Auge Piis Justitiam Reis que dona veniam All Hail O Cross our only Hope in this time of the Passion Give thou increase of Righteousness unto the Godly and give thou Pardon unto Sinners You have seen the Prayer that Pope Bomface the Eighth made to be said before a Picture and Image of the Cross which is this O Crux altissima O Innocens Sanguis O Poena magna O Christi penuria O profunda Vulnera O Lanciae perforatio O Sanguinis fluctio O Cordis Fractio O Dei amara Mors O Dei veneranda Dignitas adjuva me in Vitam oeternam Amen O most high Cross O innocent Blood O great Pain O the Penury of Christ O the deep Wounds O the piercing through of the Spear O the flowing of the Blood O the breaking of the Heart O the bitter Death of God O the Worshipful Dignity of God help me unto everlasting Life I cannot believe Sir that you give Divine Worship unto a corruptable Creature or that you believe that Christ is there present under the Form of Wood. You know that the Sacrament hath been Invocated and yet the Sacrament is a thing unsensible as Epiphanius saith Dyonisius who as your Divines say did Invocate it but see what Pathymeres the Greek Paraphrast saith Expounding the Words in this Sence O Divinum Sacrum Mysterium affatur illud tanquam rem animatam He speaketh to the Sacrament as if it were indued with Sence and Life and yet the Sacrament is not a Thing that hath Life and Sence So Gregory the Great saith O Great and Holy Passeover Therefore Sir every thing that is called upon is not Adored with Divine Honour Consider Sir what your own Abdias saith of St. Andrew when he came to suffer upon the Cross for the Testimony of God and his Christ he represents the Holy Apostle thus speaking to the Cross Salve Crux c. All Hail thou Cross that here standest thus looking for me I come of my own accord unto thee for I know thy Secrecy I know thy Mystery I see in thee the things that are promised to me of my Lord Receive thou me O thou chosen Cross that an thus humbled for my God and help the poor Servant unto his Master Sir here are plain Words of Invocation here is manifest Adoration yet I hope you will not believe that St. Andrew did indeed give Divine Honour unto a Wooden Cross on which he was to suffer I pray consider the words of St. Ambrose Lib. 10. Cap. 22. in Lucam Observe how he doth speak to the Water of Baptism O Aqua quae humano aspersum Sanguine c. O thou Water that hast washed the World stained with Man's Blood O thou Water that deservest to be a Sacrament of Christ thou beginnest thou fulfillest the perfect Mysteries Do you think that St. Andrew's Cross had Eyes and Ears Do you think that the Baptismal Water had Eyes and Ears You cannot imagine therefore that St. Andrew expected to be heard by the Cross or St. Ambrose by the Water And as St. Ambrose did not expect to be heard so he designed no Divine Honour to the Water I pray consider what Devotion your Church doth use to the Girdle of the Blessed Virgin O Veneranda Zona fac nos Haeredes aeternae beatae Vitae hanc nostram vitam ab interitu conserva tuam Hereditatem tuum Populum O Intemeratae Zona intemerata conserva habeamus te vires Auxilium murum pro pugnaculum portum Salutare Refugium O Blessed Girdle make us the Inheritors of Eternal and Blessed Life and keep our present Life from Destruction O unspotted Girdle of the unspotted Virgin save thy Inheritance O save thy People be thou our Strength our Wall our Fort our Haven our Refuge This Prayer of your Divines is not taken out of Euthymius but it is taken out of Aloysius Lippomanus the Bishop of Verona where you had your Prayer to St. Theodore made by Nectarius for in the Margin he hath made this Observation upon the Prayer O quam magna mira petit a Veneranda Zona O how great and marvellous things he desireth of this Blessed Girdle From this Prayer you cannot say that either Euthymius or Lippomanus would have you Worship the Virgin Mary's Girdle with Divine Honour From all which I easily gather that though the Fathers did in the Fourth and Fifth Centuries Invocate and ask the Saints for Favours yet in that they paid them no Divine Honour Prayer being of its own nature due only to the Creator and not to the Creature nor indeed can any thinking Man justifie the Fathers in those Raptures and Rhetorical Apostrophe's in which their Zeal did exceed the bounds of their Knowledge for their Judgments were otherwise when they came to be more sedate and had taken these Raptures into consideration which I shall shew you by and by By your writing I perceive that you are so fond of the notion of the lawfulness of praying to Saints that you endeavour to deliver your notion from that great objection of the incapacity of the Saints hearing us in many

places far distant from each other at one and the same time for you must know that at the first creeping in of this fend notion the memory of those Martyrs were only kept up where their Bodies were Intombed and their Relicks kept but now you generally pray to them in many places at one and the same time where you have no Monuments of those Saints nor any of their Relicks which you do endeavour to prove offering several Authorities in vindication of the same The first Authority you produce is St. Augustine who as you say saith The Solution of this Question is beyond the reach of my Vnderstanding how the Martyrs help those which most certainly are helped by them whether or no they be themselves present at one time in so different places c. From whence you conclude that the holy Doctor Is certain that the Martyrs help their Clients at one and the same time in different places yet uncertain whether they were themselves present It was not say you his Perswasion that then the Saints help was to be required only where they were believed to be present This you say is a clear demonstration Your using the word Clyents is fitter for a Lawyer than a Divine of your station there might another word have been sound out but I let that pass and tell you that I do really believe the examples of the Martyrs have been of great use to the faithful and in this sence they may be said to help those that follow their good example you see it was past St. Austins understanding to solve the question How the Martyrs did help those that were their Clients as you call them in his Cura pro Mort. c. 16. but Sir suppose I should ask this question whether or no the Saints in Heaven have any knowledge at all of Humane Affairs on Earth I am sure there St. Austine can resolve me and he will tell us That the Dead can have no knowledge of our Affairs here upon Earth Mortui nesciunt etiam Sancti quid agant vivi etiam eorum filii Again Si rebus viventium interessent animae mortuorum c. If saith he so great and famous Patriarchs as Abraham Isaac and Jacob did not understand how the world went with their posterity how can it be that the dead should at all take notice of the living or intermeddle with assisting them De cura pro Mort. c. 13. 16. I pray Sir observe that St. Austin here is so far from praying to Saints that he tells you they are so far from helping or assisting that they know not your affairs on Errth for they have not the least knowledge of our condition Therefore when he saith the Christians are helped by the Martyrs you must not understand help as a consequent of your Prayers to them but of your following those holy Rules and Examples they have left you for by their Examples they may be said to help men Another Authority you produce is St. Gregory Nazianzen in his twelfth Oration who you say having largely shewed how the Martyrs cure Diseases put the Devil to flight c. He adds where their Bodies only are the same effect is had as from their Souls whether they are touched or worshipped The Reliques of Saints are much in Esteem in your Church and no Christian I think should offer any Indignity to them were they not false and fictitious and put upon Men in order to deceive them and those things termed to be Reliques which indeed are not so and many of the supposed Miracles done by them so foolish that a Man hath no reason to expect any miraculous Effects from them but rather ought to set them at nought they being the Inventions of Men to deceive the Simple but with your pardon I think St. Gregory here only speaketh of the Miracles that have been done by the Bodies of the Saints that have suffer'd for the Testimony of Jesus I will not dispute the Truth that the Holy Father delivers but I think from these words you cannot yet justifie your Doctrine of praying to Saints The Bodies of Martyrs cure Diseases and put the Devils to flight say you therefore must we pray to the Saints and Martyrs I think it by no means will follow Another Authority you produce is St. Ambrose in his Sermon upon the Holy Martyrs Nazarius and Celsus Have you invocated the Martyrs saith he He hears you every where who is honoured in the Martyrs according to his Dispensation who weighs your Vows and dispenceth his Gifts in so much is a nearer presence of the Intercessor granted as the Faith of the Clyent is more devout These words you say are St. Ambrose's words and so do several of your Divines But Sir I will offer you another saying of St. Ambrose as you call him in his Sixth Sermon upon St. Margaret Redere debemus Sanctis honorisicentium que nobis salutem profusione suis sanguinis perpererunt qui tam sacra hostia pro nostra propitiatione Domino suo oblati We must yield Honour unto the Saints which have procured Salvation for us by their shedding of their Bloud which also were offered up unto the Lord so Holy a Sacrifice for our Salvation You must not think Sir that any Protestant Divines will take either of these for the sayings of St. Ambrose for your Divines have miserably corrupted this Father and made him speak such Blasphemies against God and his Christ which that Holy Father would never have uttered and especially in his Sermons upon the Feasts of the Saints And the reason why I offer this is because that I find St. Ambrose is corrupted by Eutropius one of your own Authors and instead of Dominici sanguinis consecrationem He saith Dominici sanguinis dispensationem and again we find him in his Funeral Oration upon Theodosius to say these words Tu solus Domine Invocandus es Tu Rogandus ut eum in filiis Representes Thou alone O Lord art to be Invocated Thou art to be Intreated to make up the want of him in his Sons If a Saint and Martyr might lawfully be prayed unto then St. Ambrose was not Orthodox in this Request he put up to God. If he were Orthodox in this then God only is to be Invocated and not the Saints wherefore I conclude that when you Represent him to Admonish his Hearers to call upon the Saints that then you make him speak what your Divines have Forged and not his own Sence And this doth further appear if you will but consider that the Prayer you call his makes the Creature Omnipresent which is an Incommunicable Attribute of Almighty God of which great Blasphemy that Holy Father would not be Guilty But I suppose your Lippomanus or your Amphilochius hath helped you to this Prayer for in the old Edition of St. Ambrose I cannot find the Title of this Sermon but if they should be the words of St. Ambrose you know the word Invoke doth not always

ista vel figment a Mendacium hominum vel protent a fallacium Spirituum Let no man say it is true for that or this Man hath wrought this or that Miracle for that Men make their Prayers at the Tombs of our Dead and obtain their Desires or for that these or these Miracles be wrought there c. Away with these things they may be either the Juglings and Mockeries of deceitful Men or else Illusions of Iying Spirits Aug. de Vnitate Ecclesiae Cap. 16. Again St. Chrysostome saith Per Signa cognoscabatur qui essent essent veri Christiani qui falsi nunc autem signorum operatio omnino levata est mag is autem Invinitur apud eos qui falsi sunt Christiani In old time it was known by Miracles who were the true Christians and who the false but now the working of Miracles is taken quite away and is rather found amongst them that are false Christians Chrysost in Matth. Hom. 49. Therefore St. Augustine saith Contra illos mirabiliar is cautum me fecit Deus meus dicendo in novessimis diebus exsurgent pseudo Prophetae facientes signa portenta ut inducunt in errorem si fieri possit etiam Electos Against these Miracle-Mongers my God hath armed me saying In the latter days shall arise false Prophets working Signs and Wonders to deceive if it be possible the Elect of God. Aug. in Johan Tract 13. Sir you have told us of a great many Miracles that have been wrought by the Bodies and Relicks of Saints and Martyrs But I wonder you being of the Society of Jesus would not give us one touch of the Relicks of St. Xaverius in East-India and of his Relicks at Rome nay there is scarce a Colledge of Jesuits in Christendom but have of them more or less and by those Relicks many Miracles have been wrought Why did you not prove that he might be Worshipped all over Christendom as well as any other Saint Why did you not give an account of the Miracles of the Saints of your Order in India Who by their Holy Water have driven Mice out of the Country and made barren Women to bare Children and such other wonderful Miracles But you are a modest Gentleman and would not therefore take notice of them at this time lest the World should not at this time of day be under any obligation to believe them or any part of them and as the World is now cautious so have Learned Men in all Ages Alexander of Hales saith In Sacramento apparet Caro interdum humana procuratione interdum operatione Diabolica In the Sacrament itself there appeareth Flesh sometimes procured by Men and sometimes by the working of the Devil Alex. de Hales Par. 4. Quest 53. Mem. 4. Therefore from hence observe that Miracles are not the Signs always of true Doctrine especially of the Doctrine you defend viz. Praying to and Worshipping of Saints Love you know is bountiful and as it hath produced a very fair Account of the Miracles wrought by the Relicks of Saints and the Bodies of your Martyrs so give me leave on my part to tell you what Miracles I have seen wrought by the Preaching of the glorious Gospel of our dear Redeemer the Blind see and the Dumb speak the faint-hearted are made couragious our Bishops are stout in the Cause of our blessed Lord our Presbyters speak now with the Tongues of Angels the Voice of our God is heard amongst us and the People are turned from Darkness to Light and from the power of Antichrist to the obedience of the Gospel The Doctrine that is Preached amongst us is quick and powerful and sharper than any two-edged Sword piercing even to the dividing asunder of Soul and Spirit and of the Joynts and Marrow confounding Principalities and Powers Spiritual Wickednesses and High Places good Men are perfected the Body of Christ is edisied these Sir if you have Eyes to see are great Miracles Saint Chrysostom saith The Conversion of the World is a Miracle Chrysost in cor Hom. 6. St. Austin saith Modo Caro caeca non aperit Oculos Miraculo Domini Cor caecum aperit Oculos Sermone Domini Now adays the blind Flesh openeth not her Eyes by the Miracles of our Lord but the blind Heart openeth his Eyes at the Word of our Lord Aug. de verbis domin Secund. Mat. Ser. 18. Again Modo Aures corporis surdae non aperiuntur sed quam multi habent clausas Aures Cordis quae tamen verbo dei penetrante Patescant Now adays the deaf Ears of the Body be not opened but how many are there who have the Ears of their Heart shut up which notwithstanding are opened when the word of God that pierceth entereth I think that these Miracles are greater Arguments why we should Worship God through Jesus Christ then the Miracles of the Relicks and Monuments of the Martyrs are why you should Worship and Pray unto the Saints It may be you may not take it well if I should not take notice of your Miracles once more therefore I will I behold the Countenance of your Glorious Miracles Your Crosses they can speak and your Idols can go your Images can light their own Lamps your Holy Water is able to drive away Mice and to make barren women Fruitful and to calm the Sea. This I have learned from some of your own Writers but your Miracles and your Doctrine of Praying to Saints is much alike but I will conclude this Head with the Saying of St. Hierom Mendacium Antichristi Christi Veritas devorabit The Truth of Christ shall devour the Falshood of Antichrist Having examined your Doctrine that because the Relicks of the Martyrs are dispersed about into divers places and being honoured in their respective places where their Relicks are reposed that therefore they might be Worshipped in a thousand different places at one and the same time for which you produced several Witnesses and they being all considered you now proceed to shew that this Doctrine of Praying to Saints was authorised by four Councils held within the space of the first five hundred years after Christ By the Authority of those Councils you think you do your work First You cite the Council of Chalcedon and say That in the First General Council held there the Bishops belonging to the Patriarchate of Constantinople publickly in the Council and unopposed used this Invocation to Flavianus Flavianus lives after Death let the Martyr Pray for us And more you say you do not express in your Litanies to the Saints This was a Practice But I pray Sir where is the Injunction There is a Decree in your Chapter held at Tront That the Saints shall be Prayed unto If you can find such a Decree in the Council of Chalcedon I pray let us see it or else never pretend to cite the Authority of the Council I was big with expectation and truly did give myself the trouble to peruse and consider it but finding no

is no mention made of praying to Saints nor of the Saints Intercession for us It hath been commonly observed when the learned Writers of your Church have wanted Scripture for any Point or Notion of Religion which they have endeavoured to defend then they pretend the Authority of the Fathers and Counsels to justifie them in the maintenance of their Notions and in particular this practice of your Church in pray-to Saints and Angels Your Bellarmine says That all the Fathers both of the Greek and Latin Churches teach us to pray to Saints Salmeron and Stapleton and others do speak the same Language but all of you to this day have so inured your Tongues to talk of the Fathers that you can hardly use any other form of Speech nay you have attempted to bring several of the Fathers of the first four or five hundred years But you have not yet produced one Testimony out of any Father whereby it may appear that any account at all was made of it nay those whom you have named were all against it I could produce Testimonies in abundance for this my Assertion but it would be too tedious for me to Write and you to Read therefore take a tast of these few Ignatius who flourished about the year of our Lord 140. in his Epistle to the Philadelphians writeth thus You Virgins have none but Jesus Christ before your Eyes in your Prayers and the Father of Jesus Christ Ignat. ep 6. By which Testimony it appears to me that the Christians of his time did not so much as pray to the Virgin Mary herself To the same effect is that of Origen We must pray to him alone who is God above all things to him also we must pray who is the Word the only Son of God and the first Born of all Creatures Tom. 8. cont celsum pag. 395. in eod lib. p. 381. 384. 402. 416. 420. Tom. 5. conta celsum lib. 8. in ep ad Rom. c. 10. Athan. in orat 3. contr Arrian To God alone saith he it belongeth to be Worshipped and the Angels themselves are not ignorant hereof for although they excel in Glory yet are they but Creatures and are none of those that are Worshipped but of those that Worship the Lord And again because Jesus Christ is not a Creature but begotten of the very Substance of the Father and is by Nature the Son of God therefore he is to be Worshipped Therefore Sir what becomes of your urging of Athanasius for countenancing of Invocation and Prayer to the Saints and of his Prayer as you call it to the Virgin Mary Consider Origen once more and he hath this expression if I understand his Greek aright That we ought not to Worship our Fellow-worshippers nor to pray to those that pray themselves which saying of this great Doctor agrees with that passage in the Revelations c. 22. 9. c. 19 10. When St. John offered to Worship the Angel he saith to him See thou do it not for I am thy Fellow-Servant and of thy Brethren the Prophets and of them that keep the sayings of this Book Worship God. That great Doctor saith in another place If Celsus will have us to procure the good Will of any others after him that is God over all let him consider that when the Body is moved the shaddow thereof doth follow it So in like manner having God propitious to us who is over all it follows that we shall have all his Friends both Angels and Saints loving to us for they have a fellow-feeling with them that are thought fit to find favour with God neither are they only favourable unto such but they work with them also that are willing to do Service unto him who is God over all and are friendly to them and pray and intreat with them so as we boldly say that when Men with Resolution propose unto themselves the best things do pray unto God many thousands of the Sacred Powers pray together with them unspoken to Origen lib. 8. contr celsum p. 432 433. The Writings of Origen are full of Evident Testimonies against this Doctrine for which you so earnestly contend And Athanasius wrote as much as he about this Point and the Arrian Heresie which had spread itself in his time in many considerable parts of Christendom against which he contended with great Zeal and as great Judgment gave him occasion for it They maintained Christ was a meer Creature and yet they prayed unto him The Holy Doctor on the other side did with the Orthodox Fathers maintain That if he were Created he must not be Invocated What reason had they to pray to Christ who was a meer Creature You very well remember that their Plea was because the Word of God dwelt in him then he argueth upon them thus If you Worship the Man Christ because the Word of God dwelt in him at the same time Worship also the Saints who have the Word of God dwelling in them The Word of God dwelling in Christ was no manner of Plea or Argument for his being Worshipped but because he is not a Creature but is begotten of the very Substance of his Father and is by Nature the Son of God therefore he is to be Worshipped If you find St. Athanasius to say That the Saints are by Nature the Sons of God and begotten of the Substance of the Father then we must Worship the Saints but since they are the Children of God by Adoption and Grace and by Nature they were the Children of Wrath as well as those who are yet dead in Trespasses and Sins though since their Conversion the Word of God and Seed of God remaineth in them and they are not to be Worshipped If the Plea of the Arrians for the Worship of Christ who they asserted to be a meer Creature had been justifiable then by Vertue of the said Plea it had been lawful to Worship the Saints but as the Plea cannot maintain the Arrians in the Worshipping of Christ so that Plea will not justifie you nor your Church in the Practice of Praying to Saints Hence it is that the great Doctor St. Athanasius That if you Worship the Man Christ because the Word of God abideth in him Worship also the Saints who have the Word of God abiding in them I humbly conceive it may not be unnecessary to put you in mind that as the Greek Fathers now cited do by no means Countenance your Doctrine and Practice of Praying to Saints and Angels there are also several Latin Fathers who are of the same Opinion Tertullian who lived about the beginning of the third Century he saith Haec ab alio orare non possum quam aquo me scio consecuturum quoniam ut ipse est qui solum praestat c. The substance of which words is this He tells us that such and such things he might not pray for from any other but from him from whom he knew he should obtain them because it is he who alone is

and in that first Temple the Priest only did enter into the Holy of Holies and all the People stood without Aug. in Ps 64. How came Christ to be a Priest And of what Order is he a Priest The Author to the Hebrews tells you That he was a Priest after the Order of Melchizedeck and that he was called of God see Heb. 5. 4 5 6. And no Man taketh this Honour unto himself but he that is called of God as was Aaron so also Christ glorified not himself to be made an High-Priest but he that said unto him Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee as he saith in another place Thou art a Priest forever after the Order of Melchizedeck Whoever termed the Saints to be Priests after the Order of Melchizedeck Who called them to be Priests When did did they enter within the Vail The Father saith That he alone of them which did partake of the Flesh doth make Intercession for us How comes the Saints now to do it When did this Intercession of theirs commence Christ did not enter into the Holy of Holies till after his Resurrection then God constituted him the great High-Priest and Apostle of our Profession saying Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee Are the Saints yet risen from the Dead if they are not How then can they appear in the Presence of God for us If they do when did their Mediatorship begin Christ alone entered and alone doth interceed with God for Mankind If the Saints are joyned with him why then doth the Father here say He being now entered within the Veil alone of them who have been partakers of the Flesh The High-Priest in the time of the Law was a Type of Christ because he went into the Holy of Holies alone and all the People stood without How can that be true for you say That Christ did not alone go into the Holy of Holies but the Saints are entered also Holy Men of the Jews could not go in because they were not called to be Priests but you croud in the Saints though you can prove no Call. St. Austine saith He alone doth Interceed But you say That Christ doth not Interceed alone You must by no means contradict your own Bellarmine he saith thus The Saints in the Old Testament were not prayed unto because they were shut up in Prison they did not enjoy the Presence of God. Do the Saints now enjoy the Presence of God in Body and Soul If not how can they be Priests And how can they interceed for us How can they be said to have entered within the Veil Christ our High-Priest he is risen from the Dead and both in Body and Soul he appears in the Presence of God for us Give me leave to deal freely with you and tell you that your Stapleton tells us That Tertullianus Ireneus Origen St. Chrysostome Theodoret Oecumenius Theophylact St. Ambrose Clemen Romanus and St. Bernard did not believe that the Saints were admitted into Heaven or had a clear sight of God till the Resurrection from the Dead therefore they did not assent to this Sentence which is defined as a Doctrine of Faith that the Souls of the Righteous enjoy the sight of God before the Day of Judgment but did deliver their Opinions contrary to this Diffinition of your Church and if so they could not be of the Opinion by Bellarmine's own confession That Men on Earth should pray to them as those of your Church do to this day Do but observe this Holy Doctor once more saying thus Non sit nobis Religio cultus hominum Mortuorum quia se pie vixerunt tales non quaerunt Honores c. Honorandi ergo sunt propter imitationem non adorandi propter Religionem The worshipping of Men that are Dead should be no part of our Religion because that if they lived piously they will not seek that kind of Honour they are to be honoured therefore for Imitation but not to be adored for Religion Aug. de Ver. Relig. cap. 35. If it were no part of Religion in St. Augustine's time to Worship Saints then by what Authority do you make the Worshipping of Saints to be a part of your Religion It lies upon you therefore to justifie your self from this great absurdity of making that to be a part of the Christian Religion which is not really so I hope your Saints to whom you pray lived and dyed in the Faith of our Lord Jesus Christ or as this great Doctor hath it they lived piously If so when did they claim or challenge this Worship as due to them for he saith They well not seek that kind of Honour It lies Sir upon you to satisfie the World in this particular Again observe That if the Memories of the Saints and Martyrs be to be honoured only for Imitation as I have observed before Then by what Authority do you adore them for Religion since the aforesaid Doctor tells you They are not to be worshipped for Religion That the Memories of the Saints and Martyrs of our dear Redeemer ought to be honoured that no Christian will deny but that they ought to be worshipped is by this Doctor plainly forbidden Again the said Father saith Oratio quae non fit per Christum non potest delere peccatum sed etiam ipsa fit peccatum The Prayer which is not made by Jesus Christ not only cannot blot out Sin but itself also is sin Aug. in Psal 108. From which saying if to go to God in the Name of the Saints be sin how much more to go to the Saints themselves for you may remember that our sins are pardoned for the sake of Christ alone and that we have no Promise to receive at the hands of God those things we ask unless we go to him in the Name of his Son only And the said St. Austin in plain terms calls them Hereticks that were inclined to worship Angels De Haeres Cap. 29. Now if they were Hereticks that were inclined to worship Angels much more are they which worship Saints for if the more honourable may not be worshipped then the less honourable must not if the first be Heresie the latter cannot be Orthodox If this Father here condemns the one how can you with reason pretend to justifie the other St. Chrysostome who was a great Doctor in the Eastern Church In his third Homily on the first Chapter to the Hebrews hath this saying Why do you gape after Angels they are Servants to the Son of God and are sent to divers places for our sakes Sir Why do we worship Jesus Christ but because he is God over all blessed forever and God hath commanded the Angels to worship him Heb. 1. 6. Ps 97. 7. But he never commanded us to Worship the Angels for if Worship be due to the Angels how will it appear that he was made better than the Angels and that he hath by Inheritance obtained a more excellent Name than they

Nay the Apostle makes this observation in ver 5. Unto which of the Angels said he at any time Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee Ps 2. 7. And observe verse 13. of this first Chapter to the Hebrews to which of the Angels said he at any time Sit thou at my right hand until I make thy Enemies thy footstool And if upon these Considerations this great Doctor useth this expression Why gape ye after Angels upon the same consideration I may say Why gape ye after the Saints To which of the Saints said he at any time Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee or Sit thou at my right hand until I make thine Enemies thy footstool If God by not speaking this to the Angels doth shew that they ought not to be worshipped then it necessarily follows that the Saints ought not to be worshipped unless you can tell where and when God used such expressions to them as he used to his Son. Again we find that God made his Angels ministring Spirits sent forth to minister to them who shall be Heirs of Salvation and they being no more St. Chrysostome saith Why do you gape after Angels Then what can we expect from the Saints who are not so much as ministring Spirits who never were sent forth by God to minister for the People of God here upon Earth St. Chrysostom in his eighteenth Homily on the Epistle to the Romans saith Vnto whom shalt thou flee whom wilt thou call upon to fight for and help thee shall it be to Abraham he will not hear thee shall it be to these Virgins but they also shall impart none of their Oyl unto thee shalt thou call upon thy Father or Grandfather but none of them shall be able to release or relieve thee These Sayings considered worship and pray to him alone who hath power to blot out thine obligation and quench that flame You may observe the holy Father shews the vanity of those Men that have a recourse to the Saints departed and how they are disappointed that expect any Relief or Comfort from any other but God. Therefore the holy Doctor admonisheth Christians to have recourse to God alone who is able to help and to relieve them Now I pray if God alone is able to help and relieve us to what end is it for us to have recourse to Angels and Saints if they are not able to relieve us and release us And what warrant can you pretend from God to worship or pray to any other since this Holy Father saith You must worship and pray to God alone Again the same Father in his ninth Homily upon the Colossians he shews us that the Devil envying the Honour that we have to address our selves to God immediately hath brought in the Worshipping of Angels It is strange that you should practice that as an Institution of God which was but a meer Intention of the Devil and that the Council of Trent should define that as an Article of Faith which hath been Condemned by the Fathers of the Church Catholick as Sin and a manifest breach of our Duty and Obedience we owe to God and if that the Worshipping of Angels were an Invention of the Devil Then Sir I pray what reason have you or any sober Man to think that Worshipping of Saints can be an Institution of God and that you may see the latter as well as the former was a meer contrivance of Hell. I pray consider the Doctrine which holy Epiphanius did teach the Church in his time and largely refuting the Heresies of those who were called Collyridians from the Collyrides or Cakes which they used to offer to the Virgin Mary and says That neither Elias nor John nor Thecla nor any of the Saints are to be worshipped and again God will not have Angels to be worshipped much less her that was born of Anna And again which of the Prophets have permitted a Man to be worshipped much less a Woman The Virgin is a choice Vessel indeed but a Woman Let Mary be in honour but let the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost be worshipped Let no Man worship Mary Epiph. Haeres 79. This Doctor is as plain as may be in the Point in debate They offered her Cakes and you Incense and Vestments and Candles If they were Hereticks in Epiphanius's time for worshipping the Virgin Mary what are you who do it now I have one Father more to offer to your Consideration and that is Lactantius who is a Doctor of great esteem with you observe what he saith Qui supplicant mortuis rationem hominum non tenent Lactant. Insti Divin Lib. 2. Cap. 18. It is a short Testimony but as plain as can be in opposition to your Doctrine of Praying to the Saints who are departed and can neither hear your Prayers nor are they in any capacity of granting your Desires This sort of Service must unman you for that you do not pray upon any good ground nor can you pray for any good end If you can let us know the Principle upon which you pray and the end for which you pray to the Saints for all Services that have not their Foundation upon good Principles and are not performed for a good end are so far from being Christian Services that those who perform them are scarce worthy of the Name of Men. I have taken some pains to make it appear that the Doctrine of Praying to Saints and Angels is unlawful I have deliver'd you my thoughts freely in answer to those Authoiries which you have produced which at the first view had the aspect of Prayers but upon a strict observation they prove to be no more then Rhetorical Apostroplies those holy Fathers used not adoring the Saints for Religion but only honouring them to beget in their Hearers an holy imitation of their Vertue and to oblige them to follow those good Examples the Saints left behind them and then I have given you the Authorities of the most eminent Fathers both of the Greek and Latin Churches that with one consent condemn your Doctrine and Practice by you defended But in truth Sir Humane Writings are no Foundation of our Faith we have a more sure Rule of our Faith in this particular the Holy Scriptures which are the Word of God whereunto you will do well to take heed and no more endeavour to bring in the Authorities of humane Writers to stand in competition with the Holy Word of God that hath commanded us to worship and serve him alone and hath sworn by himself that he will not part with this Honour to another but if this doth not satisfie you I am ready to reply to any thing you shall further bring in to give countenance to the Point in hand as it is defined and determined in your Church Sir you were pleased in your Epistle to the English Peer to reflect upon the Ordination of the Church of England and in words at length you