Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	pray_v	prayer_n	supplication_n	1,875	5	11.3215	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33987	An answer to Dr. Scot's cases against dissenters concerning forms of prayer and the fallacy of the story of Commin, plainly discovered.	Collins, Anthony, 1676-1729.	1700 (1700)	Wing C5356; ESTC R18873	65,716	77

First kindled So I do think Experience will demonstrate that no Form of Prayer made without the Man and taken up into the Lips will so affect the Soul as Words formed within it and then thrust out of the Lips Our Author in the next place comes to answer the Arguments for conceived Prayers most raising the Minister's Intention that is of Affection he saith They pretend That in praying by a Form the Minister's Affections follow his Words whereas in conceived Prayer his Words follow his Affections As to this he saith 1. That it is a very curious Distinction 2. That he is not able to apprehend either what Foundation there is for it or how it it applicable to the Matter The Distinction is used both by Dr. Ames in his Cases and by Mr. Calderwood in his Altare Damascenum Men both of Learning Reason and Piety If our Casuist cannot apprehend the Foundation of it our Charity to them will oblige us not presently to conclude that it hath none and our Charity to our Author obligeth us if we can to help his Apprehension When our Souls are imployed about any Object it first discovereth that Imployment by Thoughts upon it which produce the Motions of the Affections according to the apprehended Nature of the Object which the Thoughts are so imployed about if the Object be something to be beg'd or pleaded for of or from another The Soul is presently forming Words for the Tongue in the use of which they shall beg it Do not the Words here follow the Affections And are they not thrust out by them as a Bullet is driven out of a Gun by the Powder first fired beneath it and affecting it In praying by Forms it is not possible that the Heart should be sutably affected by any inward Motion of the Soul forming the Words for the Lips for they are already formed for them So that all the Affection that can possibly attend them must either be raised 1. From a serious Premeditation of the Matter of those Forms or 2. From Post-Thoughts or Reflections upon them when they are uttered If the latter only then what is said is true in the use of Forms The Affections follow the Words and have no Work either in the forming of them or sending them forth As to the former It must not be denied but we may be affected with the Premeditation of the Matter in any Form as well as an Orator may be affected with the Matter of a Speech which he is to utter before he uttereth it though the Speech he made not by himself but by another But I beseech this Reverend Author to consider as in the presence of God 1. Quotus quisque est How few there are or are like to be found in the World who being to Pray only by Reading Forms doth take any considerable Pains with their own Hearts every Time they use them to affect them praeviously with the Matter of those Forms which if one doth not it must be true that his Affections only follow his Words 2. Suppose we could find one of many that did so whether it would be possible for him to raise his Affections to that degree upon such prepared Forms as when his own Thoughts form the Words which he is to utter 3. Besides this it is hardly possibly to be sure not ordinary for Men and Women to be equally affected with Shame and Sorrow for past Sins as for Sins newly and lately committed or to be equally intense with Desires for ordinary and common wants as for such wants as presently pinch us and press hard upon us as to which Forms cannot serve unless they be renewed every Day but as to this we shall have occasion more to speak when we come to its proper Place This is enough said to make the Distinction plain and intelligible But then Secondly saith our Author Suppose it were true that in conceived Prayer the Words follow the Affections and in a Form the Affections the Words how doth it from hence follow that conceived Prayer doth more intend and heighten the Affections then Forms What Reason can there be assign'd why those Acts of inward Affections should not be as intense and vigorous as those that go before them Suppose that there can no Reason be given which yet I think may yet this follows that whereas the Grace of Prayer and the very Life and Soul of it as our Author somewhere speaketh lieth much in the Holy Affections that attend it If the Affections only follow the Words the Prayer being done when the Words are once uttered that Prayer is put up without any such Holy and inflamed Affections Nor sure is Shame and Sorrow two of the Affections mentioned by our Author so properly Consequents to as Concomitants of the Act of Prayer Our Author goes on p. 42. But then Secondly it is pretended that the Minister cannot so well express his devout Affections in other Mens Words as in his own To which he Answers That the Ministers business in Publick Prayer is not to express the degrees and heighths of his Affections or to acquaint God of the particular and extraordinary fervencies of his own Soul for in Publick he prayeth as the Commonmouth of the Congregation and therefore he ought not to express to God in the Name of the People any matter that is peculiar to himself c. This now is what I cannot possibly understand To express our particular Affections and fervency is one thing and to Pray for any particular Matter peculiar to himself is another thing yet certainly the first is the Ministers Duty and the latter his Liberty if not his Duty also Let a Man be praying in Publick or Private or Secret certainly he ought to do it with the most fervent intense and raised Affections which he can Let the Matter of his Prayer be what it will or can still Affection must be an adjunct to an acceptable Prayer and the more 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the more raised and setting the Soul on Work it is the better it is or else St. Iames was mistaken Iames 5.26 Nor is it true that a Minister in Publick Prayer ought to confess no Sins but what the whole Congregation is guilty of nor to put up Petitions for any wants but what are the common wants of the whole Congregation The common Practice both of the present Church and the Church in all Ages confuteth this If this were true in vain were the desires of any particular Person or Family in vain their Papers desiring the Prayers of the Minister and Congregation for them in vain are we in Scripture commanded to Pray one for another to make Supplications for all Saints Eph. 6.18 If our Brother Sin not unto Death to Pray for him 1 John 5.16 And certainly the Minister hath the same Liberty and Priviledge that the meanest of the People have I cannot therefore conceive what our Author means by this who surely hath a Hundred Times prayed for some

pretended Advantages to Devotion from Forms of Prayer to There are two eminent ones that it must want 1. One obvious Means to keep the Thoughts of him that prayeth from wandering And this is true both as to him that ministreth in Prayer and those who only pray the Thoughts of both have apparently a further Liberty to rove whether they will take it or no. Let every one speak from his own Experience and if they do differ in their Experience let it be considered whether their natural Temper doth not make the difference which is not a thing eligible but natural and upon that account necessary If the Ministers Thoughts be not attent he must speak Nonsense if the Peoples Thoughts be not they must say Amen to they know not what 2. A Second Advantage they must want is the Confession of renewed Sins and begging Pardon of them the making known of renewing Wants and giving Thanks for new Mercies which whether they ought to be the Matter of Confession Petition or Thanksgiving in Publick Prayer will fall under our Consideration in speaking to the next Case 3. To these two must be added That those who in Publick pray by Forms are tied up to those particular Opinions which the Composers of these Forms have which indeed is not an Evil falls upon the People that do not minister who may with-hold their Amen but yet by their Presence will appear to do what they indeed do not but it will fall heavy upon those that minister by them We have a plentiful Instance of this in the Popish Missal where their Idolatrous Opinions are mixed with their Prayers viz. That of the Invocation of Saints the Application of their Merits to us as well as their Heretical Opinions of Purgatory and departed Saints Intercession for us and the Merits of our own Works All which indeed are upon the Reformation left out of our Liturgy but may be put in again whenever we have Superiors of that Faith It is true in conceived Prayers the People are exposed to the same Danger as to their Ears but not the Person that ministreth and the People have a Power to with-hold their Amen and to complain of such as are guilty of such Errors But there is no complaining of Forms by Publick Authority confirmed Our Casuist saith truly p. 55. and 56. That Experience the best Judge in this Case is pleaded on both sides Some say they can keep their Thoughts most attent and their Affections most intense in praying by Forms others say the quite contrary But I do not think that our Reverend Casuist directeth the best way for reconciling these Experiences by endeavouring to perswade them That the Fault must lie in their Prejudice or Temper For it may be the Fault lieth on the other side in their customary Practices and Vsage or a not right understanding their Duty in Prayer but judging that it only lies in their saying Amen whether their Thoughts be kept attent to the Words and Matter of Prayer and their Affections intense yea or no If so the Cure must be wrought on the other side If our Author by his many good Christians meaneth many such as have an Ability to express their own and others Wants to God in Prayer and exercise that Ability in a daily Prayer with their Families and in their Closets I do very much doubt whether many such will say so at least I have not met with many such do say so If he meaneth others that have not attained to this Ability or Practice he ought to distinguish between a metaphysical Goodness and a moral Goodness and again betwixt the Degrees of moral Goodness We desire to speak Wisdom to those that are perfect and to all to strive after Perfection forgetting 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the things that are behind and pressing on to those things that are before and this is that which we wish even every Soul 's spiritual Perfection This is enough to have spoken to our Casuist's Three Cases handled in his First Part we now proceed to his Second which begins with this Case Case 3. Whether the common Cases and Wants of Christians can be so well expressed in one constant Form as in a conceived Prayer The Author hath a little perplexed this Case by putting in the Word Common the Question had been well enough without it Nor hath he sufficiently explain'd what he means by Common Cases and Wants whether he understands it with reference to Time and by Common understands Constant or with reference to Persons in which Sense Cases and Wants cannot be called Common unless all propound or have them We cannot therefore well speak to what this Reverend Author saith as to this Case without putting a previous Question viz. Quest. What and whose Cases or Wants the Minister is bound to represent or make known to God in the publick Congregations or Meetings of Christians I find our Author in part determining this Question P. 2. p. 2. Publick Prayers saith he ought not to descend to particular Cases and Necessities because they are the Prayers of the whole Congregation and therefore ought to comprehend no more than what is more or less every Man's Case and Necessity I take this to be a false and mistaken Hypothesis and the Reason given for it because they are the Prayers of the Congregation to be utterly insufficient for surely the whole Congregation is concerned in the true Wants and Welfare of every Member that they may rejoice with those that rejoice and weep with them that weep Rom. 12.15 otherwise they are not kindly affectionated one to another according to v. 10. And this is the declared Will of God Eph. 6.18 that there should be made Supplications for all Saints yea for all Men 1 Tim. 2.2 How are these Texts think we to be understood That Supplications should be made for all Saints so far as their Wants are all the same and no further Or that Prayers should be made for all Men as to those things that are the Common Wants of all Men but no further I would fain see one good Reason for this or one Text of Scripture to prove it It is true we cannot confess the Sins of particular Persons unless we know them nor put up Petitions for a Supply of the Wants of particular Persons unless we know them and tho' we do know them yet some particular Sins or Wants are not fit to be made the Matter of publick Confessions or publick Petitions But it is as true there are a multitude of other Sins which are not the Sins of all but of some particular Persons in Congregations and many other Wants which likewise are not the Wants of all the Congregation but of some particular Persons in them which may well enough be confessed and Pardon begged for and which we may well enough beg a Supply of and these ought to be made the Matter of a publick Prayer either upon the Pastor's Knowledge of them tho' the Sinner