be_v due_a only_a to_o the_o creator_n and_o therefore_o i_o can_v but_o wonder_v at_o those_o who_o will_v make_v this_o only_a of_o the_o same_o nature_n with_o our_o desire_v fellow-christians_a to_o pray_v for_o we_o for_o be_v there_o no_o difference_n between_o a_o man_n entreat_v a_o courtier_n to_o present_v his_o petition_n to_o the_o king_n and_o his_o fall_v down_o on_o his_o knee_n to_o he_o with_o all_o the_o ceremony_n due_a to_o the_o king_n himself_o and_o then_o put_v it_o off_o with_o say_v that_o in_o all_o that_o he_o only_o desire_v he_o to_o sue_v to_o his_o majesty_n in_o his_o behalf_n although_o therefore_o we_o condemn_v not_o the_o solemn_a pray_v to_o god_n not_o only_o to_o hear_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n militant_a but_o of_o that_o part_n of_o it_o which_o be_v triumphant_a in_o behalf_n of_o the_o other_o in_o general_n yet_o this_o fall_v far_o short_a of_o solemn_a address_n in_o place_n of_o divine_a worship_n and_o in_o sacred_a office_n to_o the_o saint_n that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o we_o this_o be_v it_o which_o as_o to_o that_o you_o call_v virtual_a invocation_n you_o shall_v have_v prove_v out_o of_o st._n austin_n and_o yet_o even_o that_o fall_v much_o short_a of_o that_o direct_a and_o formal_a invocation_n which_o be_v both_o use_v and_o allow_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o you_o offer_v at_o a_o further_a proof_n of_o a_o direct_a ora_fw-la pro_fw-la nobis_fw-la in_o st._n austin_n for_o say_v you_o st._n austin_n do_v profess_v it_o to_o be_v the_o general_n custom_n of_o christian_n in_o their_o recommend_a themselves_o to_o the_o saint_n to_o say_v 27_o memor_n esto_fw-la nostrî_fw-la which_o sure_o no_o man_n will_v contend_v to_o signify_v less_o than_o ora_fw-la pro_fw-la nobis_fw-la i_o grant_v it_o signify_v as_o much_o where_o st._n austin_n use_v it_o but_o if_o you_o have_v consult_v the_o place_n you_o may_v easy_o have_v see_v how_o whole_o impertinent_a it_o be_v to_o your_o purpose_n for_o st._n austin_n speak_v not_o at_o all_o there_o of_o saint_n depart_v but_o of_o they_o live_v and_o that_o it_o be_v a_o common_a thing_n among_o christian_n to_o say_v to_o any_o one_o of_o they_o memor_n esto_fw-la meî_fw-la remember_v i_o in_o your_o prayer_n which_o appear_v by_o the_o whole_a scope_n of_o that_o chapter_n where_o he_o speak_v of_o give_v alm_n and_o the_o effect_n of_o they_o on_o those_o who_o receive_v they_o in_o make_v they_o mindful_a of_o they_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o some_o of_o they_o do_v use_v such_o expression_n to_o those_o who_o be_v near_o their_o martyrdom_n but_o still_o this_o only_o show_v the_o request_v it_o of_o they_o when_o they_o be_v sure_o they_o hear_v they_o but_o it_o prove_v not_o any_o solemn_a invocation_n of_o they_o when_o they_o be_v dead_a but_o if_o we_o shall_v grant_v that_o there_o be_v expression_n intimate_v a_o desire_n that_o saint_n in_o heaven_n shall_v pray_v for_o they_o which_o be_v the_o utmost_a you_o can_v make_v of_o the_o citation_n out_o of_o the_o sermon_n on_o st._n stephen_n which_o with_o the_o rest_n de_fw-fr sanctis_fw-la be_v vehement_o suspect_v and_o the_o other_o on_o job_n be_v counterfeit_a yet_o there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n to_o be_v put_v between_o such_o a_o call_n upon_o martyr_n of_o who_o only_a st._n austin_n speak_v out_o of_o a_o desire_n of_o their_o prayer_n and_o a_o solemn_a and_o direct_a pray_v to_o they_o in_o the_o most_o sacred_a office_n and_o public_a devotion_n which_o be_v use_v and_o approve_v in_o your_o church_n for_o whatever_o there_o may_v be_v of_o private_a devotion_n not_o to_o call_v it_o superstition_n this_o way_n in_o st._n augustine_n time_n in_o desire_v the_o prayer_n of_o depart_a saint_n who_o they_o can_v have_v no_o ground_n at_o all_o to_o believe_v they_o hear_v they_o yet_o you_o can_v bring_v no_o evidence_n of_o any_o use_n of_o this_o in_o the_o public_a office_n of_o the_o church_n much_o less_o of_o that_o direct_a invocation_n which_o we_o most_o of_o all_o charge_n your_o church_n with_o that_o than_o which_o begin_v in_o mere_a hypothetical_a address_n go_v somewhat_o further_o when_o they_o begin_v to_o grow_v more_o confident_a that_o in_o some_o extraordinary_a way_n or_o other_o the_o saint_n hear_v they_o but_o still_o this_o keep_v itself_o within_o the_o bound_n of_o the_o cultus_fw-la dilectionis_fw-la &_o societatis_fw-la that_o respect_n which_o arise_v from_o love_n and_o communion_n but_o it_o be_v a_o good_a while_n after_o before_o it_o obtain_v a_o place_n in_o the_o public_a office_n and_o yet_o long_o before_o it_o come_v to_o that_o height_n of_o religious_a invocation_n which_o be_v more_o practise_v then_o plead_v for_o in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o although_o great_a endeavour_n be_v use_v to_o smooth_a over_o these_o gross_a abuse_n with_o fair_a distinction_n of_o relative_a and_o absolute_a direct_a and_o indirect_a worship_n yet_o the_o general_a practice_n be_v uncapable_a of_o be_v palliate_v by_o these_o narrow_a cover_n there_o be_v the_o most_o formal_a and_o direct_a invocation_n use_v to_o saint_n for_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a blessing_n which_o be_v allow_v of_o in_o common_a practice_n and_o the_o most_o sacred_a office_n can_v never_o be_v excuse_v from_o as_o great_a idolatry_n as_o the_o heathen_n be_v guilty_a of_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o their_o inferior_a deity_n i_o conclude_v this_o therefore_o with_o that_o of_o spalatensis_n sanct._n religious_a invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v heathenism_n and_o mere_a civil_a invocation_n of_o they_o though_o not_o so_o bad_a be_v yet_o dangerous_a and_o therefore_o wicelius_n just_o say_v that_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v to_o be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o church_n because_o it_o ascribe_v god_n honour_n and_o attribute_n to_o his_o creature_n and_o derogate_v from_o the_o office_n and_o glory_n of_o christ_n by_o make_v saint_n mediator_n and_o intercessor_n 24._o which_o be_v that_o we_o now_o come_v to_o consider_v for_o as_o his_o lordship_n say_v when_o the_o church_n pray_v to_o god_n for_o any_o thing_n 276._o she_o desire_v to_o be_v hear_v for_o the_o mercy_n and_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n not_o for_o the_o merit_n of_o any_o saint_n whatsoever_o for_o i_o much_o doubt_n this_o be_v to_o make_v the_o saint_n more_o than_o mediator_n of_o intercession_n which_o be_v all_o that_o you_o will_v acknowledge_v you_o allow_v to_o the_o saint_n for_o i_o pray_v be_v not_o by_o the_o merit_v more_o than_o by_o the_o intercession_n do_v not_o christ_n redeem_v we_o by_o his_o merit_n and_o if_o god_n must_v hear_v our_o prayer_n for_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n how_o much_o fall_n they_o short_a of_o sharer_n in_o the_o mediation_n of_o redemption_n such_o prayer_n as_o these_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n make_v at_o this_o day_n and_o they_o stand_v not_o without_o great_a scandal_n to_o christ_n and_o christianity_n use_v and_o authorize_v to_o be_v use_v in_o the_o missal_n to_o this_o you_o answer_v in_o two_o thing_n 1._o that_o such_o prayer_n as_o these_o be_v use_v in_o scripture_n 292._o 2._o that_o they_o be_v no_o derogation_n to_o the_o merit_n of_o christ._n for_o the_o first_o you_o say_v solomon_n psal._n 132._o pray_n to_o god_n to_o hear_v he_o in_o effect_n for_o the_o merit_n of_o his_o father_n david_n decease_v when_o he_o say_v memento_n domine_fw-la david_n &_o omnis_fw-la mansuetudinis_fw-la ejus_fw-la lord_n remember_v david_n and_o all_o his_o meekness_n etc._n etc._n this_o you_o say_v can_v be_v understand_v of_o god_n covenant_n and_o promise_n make_v to_o david_n as_o protestant_n vain_o pretend_v but_o of_o david_n piety_n and_o virtue_n by_o which_o he_o be_v acceptable_a to_o god_n for_o which_o reason_n he_o add_v again_o for_o thy_o servant_n david_n sake_n turn_v not_o away_o the_o face_n of_o thou_o anoint_v the_o like_a be_v do_v by_o daniel_n moses_n hieremias_n and_o other_o prophet_n pray_v unto_o god_n and_o desire_v their_o petition_n may_v be_v hear_v for_o abraham_n for_o isaac_n for_o israel_n sake_n and_o for_o the_o sake_n of_o other_o holy_a man_n who_o have_v live_v before_o and_o be_v in_o their_o time_n person_n acceptable_a to_o god_n and_o for_o this_o you_o quote_v st._n austin_n and_o chrysostome_n so_o far_o you_o have_v very_o fair_o render_v bellarmin_n exact_o in_o english_a but_o we_o be_v yet_o to_o seek_v 19_o why_o all_o those_o expression_n in_o scripture_n be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o covenant_n and_o promise_n god_n make_v with_o those_o person_n who_o be_v mention_v by_o you_o for_o it_o be_v considerable_a that_o you_o instance_n in_o none_o but_o such_o who_o god_n have_v make_v a_o express_a covenant_n with_o as_o with_o the_o
patriarch_n and_o with_o david_n but_o since_o you_o say_v that_o this_o answer_n have_v not_o the_o least_o ground_n from_o the_o text_n therein_o you_o outdo_v bellarmin_n and_o speak_v that_o which_o the_o text_n evident_o contradict_v you_o in_o for_o psal._n 132.11_o next_o after_o those_o very_a word_n for_o thy_o servant_n david_n be_v sake_n it_o follow_v the_o lord_n have_v swear_v in_o truth_n unto_o david_n and_o in_o the_o follow_a verse_n the_o covenant_n god_n make_v with_o david_n be_v mention_v if_o thy_o child_n will_v keep_v my_o covenant_n and_o my_o testimony_n that_o i_o shall_v teach_v they_o their_o child_n also_o shall_v sit_v upon_o thy_o throne_n for_o evermore_o you_o have_v then_o much_o consult_v the_o text_n when_o you_o say_v this_o exposition_n have_v not_o the_o least_o ground_n from_o it_o for_o that_o speak_v express_o of_o the_o promise_n and_o covenant_n which_o god_n make_v with_o david_n and_o what_o you_o add_v to_o the_o text_n of_o david_n piety_n and_o virtue_n we_o may_v more_o just_o say_v have_v not_o the_o least_o ground_n from_o it_o for_o the_o word_n do_v not_o signify_v meekness_n but_o affliction_n and_o therefore_o aquila_n render_v it_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d symmachus_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o some_o old_a copy_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d all_o refer_v not_o to_o david_n merit_n but_o to_o his_o suffering_n and_o it_o be_v not_o improbable_o conceive_v by_o some_o that_o this_o psalm_n be_v not_o of_o solomon_n pen_v but_o of_o david_n and_o that_o at_o the_o time_n when_o the_o ark_n be_v to_o be_v bring_v back_o from_o the_o house_n of_o obed_n edom_n to_o jerusalem_n and_o in_o all_o those_o other_o place_n of_o scripture_n mention_v refer_v to_o abraham_n isaac_n and_o jacob_n the_o scripture_n be_v very_o plain_a that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o covenant_n god_n make_v with_o they_o as_o appear_v by_o the_o very_a word_n of_o moses_n remember_v abraham_n isaac_n and_o israel_n thy_o servant_n 45._o to_o who_o thou_o swear_v by_o thy_o own_o self_n etc._n etc._n and_o god_n himself_o speak_v often_o of_o his_o remember_v his_o covenant_n which_o he_o make_v with_o abraham_n isaac_n and_o jacob_n and_o that_o be_v the_o ground_n why_o the_o prophet_n afterward_o plead_v the_o remembrance_n of_o those_o person_n because_o the_o covenant_n make_v with_o they_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o all_o those_o blessing_n which_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n expect_v afterward_o the_o utmost_a that_o can_v be_v make_v of_o st._n augustins_n testimony_n be_v 49._o that_o god_n may_v sometime_o show_v favour_n to_o a_o people_n that_o have_v deserve_v ill_o at_o his_o hand_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o such_o as_o pray_v for_o they_o as_o he_o do_v to_o the_o people_n of_o israel_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o moses_n and_o all_o that_o st._n chrysostom_n say_v be_v that_o god_n may_v show_v mercy_n to_o wicked_a man_n for_o the_o sake_n of_o their_o righteous_a ancestor_n who_o be_v dead_a matth._n but_o this_o be_v no_o more_o than_o he_o have_v promise_v that_o he_o will_v show_v mercy_n to_o they_o that_o love_v he_o to_o the_o three_o and_o four_o generation_n but_o there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n to_o be_v make_v between_o the_o expression_n of_o god_n bounty_n and_o the_o foundation_n of_o our_o prayer_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v only_o a_o promise_n of_o god_n and_o in_o this_o case_n we_o deny_v it_o not_o to_o be_v lawful_a to_o pray_v that_o god_n will_v remember_v his_o promise_n but_o that_o be_v a_o quite_o different_a thing_n from_o pray_v that_o we_o may_v receive_v blessing_n through_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n so_o that_o it_o can_v be_v hence_o conclude_v that_o it_o be_v no_o unwarrantable_a thing_n to_o pray_v that_o god_n will_v hear_v we_o for_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n but_o this_o will_v be_v further_o explain_v now_o we_o come_v to_o see_v how_o you_o vindicate_v this_o from_o be_v any_o derogation_n to_o the_o merit_n of_o christ._n 25._o we_o believe_v say_v you_o 293._o and_o confess_v that_o christ_n alone_o be_v our_o redeemer_n and_o that_o he_o and_o none_o but_o he_o by_o the_o just_a price_n of_o his_o most_o precious_a blood_n have_v pay_v our_o ransom_n and_o full_o satisfy_v the_o justice_n of_o god_n for_o our_o sin_n all_o that_o we_o desire_v of_o the_o saint_n either_o when_o we_o mention_v their_o merit_n to_o god_n or_o simple_o beg_v their_o intercession_n with_o god_n for_o we_o be_v only_o that_o they_o will_v join_v with_o we_o in_o prayer_n to_o god_n and_o that_o god_n will_v be_v please_v for_o their_o sake_n who_o work_n be_v so_o grateful_a to_o he_o to_o bestow_v on_o we_o the_o favour_n we_o ask_v when_o thing_n be_v so_o odious_a in_o the_o practice_n of_o they_o that_o they_o cause_v all_o person_n of_o any_o ingenuity_n among_o yourselves_o to_o cry_v out_o upon_o they_o than_o your_o art_n be_v to_o let_v the_o same_o practice_n continue_v still_o but_o to_o find_v out_o some_o plausible_a pretext_n to_o colour_v they_o over_o with_o as_o it_o be_v here_o in_o the_o business_n of_o pray_v to_o saint_n and_o make_v they_o thereby_o to_o be_v mediator_n between_o god_n and_o we_o which_o imply_v so_o great_a dishonour_n to_o the_o all-sufficiency_n of_o the_o merit_n and_o intercession_n of_o christ_n you_o be_v fain_o to_o find_v out_o the_o fair_a excuse_n you_o can_v make_v for_o it_o although_o the_o practice_n still_o continue_v which_o overthrow_n all_o the_o distinction_n you_o use_v thus_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o direct_a and_o formal_a prayer_n in_o your_o church_n be_v make_v to_o saint_n but_o you_o say_v these_o be_v only_o to_o entreat_v they_o to_o pray_v for_o we_o you_o pray_v express_o as_o his_o lordship_n tell_v you_o that_o god_n by_o the_o merit_n and_o prayer_n of_o saint_n will_v deliver_v you_o from_o the_o fire_n of_o hell_n 277._o that_o you_o may_v obtain_v the_o glory_n of_o eternity_n by_o their_o merit_n and_o that_o god_n will_v absolve_v you_o from_o your_o sin_n by_o their_o intercede_v merit_n and_o yet_o for_o all_o this_o you_o will_v have_v we_o believe_v that_o you_o offer_v no_o derogation_n at_o all_o to_o the_o merit_n and_o intercession_n of_o christ._n but_o be_v it_o not_o the_o great_a honour_n of_o christ_n that_o his_o merit_n and_o intercession_n alone_o be_v all-sufficient_a to_o procure_v all_o spiritual_a blessing_n for_o we_o and_o can_v any_o spiritual_a blessing_n be_v great_a than_o deliverance_n from_o hell_n eternal_a glory_n and_o the_o forgiveness_n of_o sin_n and_o when_o you_o pray_v for_o all_o these_o through_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n how_o can_v you_o possible_o more_o disparage_v the_o all-sufficiency_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n for_o if_o those_o be_v sufficient_a what_o need_v any_o more_o will_v god_n grant_v that_o for_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n which_o he_o will_v not_o do_v for_o the_o intercession_n of_o christ_n or_o do_v we_o want_v the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n to_o apply_v the_o merit_n of_o christ_n but_o still_o something_o of_o weakness_n and_o defect_n must_v be_v employ_v in_o they_o if_o some_o further_a additional_a merit_n be_v want_v for_o the_o application_n of_o the_o former_a if_o a_o prince_n shall_v declare_v to_o some_o of_o his_o father_n subject_n that_o he_o will_v satisfy_v his_o father_n displeasure_n and_o intercede_v for_o they_o that_o they_o shall_v have_v a_o absolute_a pardon_n will_v it_o not_o argue_v a_o distrust_n of_o the_o prince_n interest_n to_o solicit_v some_o inferior_a attendant_n to_o entreat_v the_o king_n to_o pardon_v they_o for_o their_o sake_n and_o it_o be_v here_o a_o plain_a case_n whatever_o you_o pretend_v that_o you_o do_v not_o only_o pray_v that_o the_o saint_n will_v join_v in_o prayer_n to_o god_n with_o you_o but_o you_o run_v to_o they_o for_o help_n and_o assistance_n in_o order_n to_o the_o obtain_v the_o great_a spiritual_a blessing_n from_o god_n for_o so_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n express_o define_v that_o it_o be_v not_o only_o good_a and_o profitable_a to_o invocate_v the_o saint_n but_o ob_fw-la beneficia_fw-la impetranda_fw-la à _fw-la deo_fw-la per_fw-la christum_fw-la ad_fw-la eorum_fw-la orationes_fw-la ult_n opem_fw-la auxiliumque_fw-la confugere_fw-la for_o the_o obtain_n of_o blessing_n from_o god_n through_o christ_n we_o ought_v to_o fly_v to_o their_o prayer_n help_v and_o assistance_n if_o nothing_o else_o be_v mean_v but_o only_o that_o the_o saint_n shall_v pray_v for_o we_o what_o mean_v help_v and_o assistance_n mention_v as_o distinct_a from_o their_o prayer_n 504._o and_o the_o roman_a catechism_n more_o full_o deliver_v it_o which_o be_v publish_v by_o order_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n viz._n
that_o saint_n be_v not_o only_o to_o be_v invocate_v because_o of_o their_o prayer_n to_o god_n but_o because_o god_n bestow_v many_o blessing_n on_o we_o eorum_fw-la merito_fw-la &_o gratiâ_fw-la by_o their_o merit_n and_o favour_n and_o after_o add_v rogaâ—i_n &_o peccatorum_fw-la veniam_fw-la impetrabunt_fw-la &_o conciliabunt_fw-la nobis_fw-la dei_fw-la gratiam_fw-la be_v ask_v they_o will_v obtain_v the_o pardon_n of_o sin_n and_o procure_v for_o we_o the_o savour_n of_o god_n and_o what_o can_v be_v more_o say_v concern_v christ_n himself_o although_o therefore_o you_o say_v never_o so_o much_o that_o your_o prayer_n be_v make_v to_o the_o saint_n through_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n and_o that_o you_o conclude_v all_o your_o prayer_n per_fw-la christum_fw-la dominum_fw-la nostrum_fw-la yet_o all_o this_o can_v clear_v you_o from_o offer_v the_o great_a dishonour_n to_o the_o merit_n and_o intercession_n of_o christ_n since_o it_o be_v plain_a you_o rely_v on_o the_o saint_n merit_n in_o order_n to_o the_o obtain_v the_o blessing_n you_o pray_v for_o but_o say_v you_o if_o the_o saint_n be_v reward_v in_o heaven_n for_o their_o merit_n ibid._n be_v not_o injurious_a to_o the_o fullness_n of_o christâ—_n merit_n why_o shall_v their_o be_v hear_v by_o virtue_n of_o those_o merit_n when_o they_o pray_v to_o god_n for_o we_o through_o christ_n or_o our_o desire_n that_o they_o may_v be_v hear_v for_o they_o be_v think_v injurious_a to_o christ_n merit_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v those_o merit_n which_o you_o suppose_v in_o saint_n when_o they_o be_v reward_v in_o heaven_n have_v either_o a_o equal_a proportion_n with_o the_o reward_n they_o receive_v or_o not_o if_o not_o than_o they_o cease_v to_o be_v merit_n and_o the_o give_v the_o reward_n though_o a_o act_n of_o justice_n the_o promise_v suppose_v yet_o in_o itself_o be_v whole_o a_o act_n of_o grace_n and_o favour_n if_o they_o have_v than_o the_o full_a recompense_n be_v receive_v by_o that_o reward_n and_o nothing_o further_o can_v be_v obtain_v for_o other_o on_o their_o account_n but_o in_o the_o sense_n it_o be_v to_o be_v suspect_v you_o take_v merit_n in_o we_o as_o well_o assert_v that_o the_o proportion_v the_o reward_n in_o heaven_n to_o the_o merit_n of_o saint_n be_v injurious_a to_o the_o fullness_n of_o christ_n merit_n as_o their_o obtain_v mercy_n for_o other_o by_o reason_n of_o they_o only_o this_o latter_a add_v to_o the_o dishonour_n in_o that_o there_o be_v not_o only_o suppose_v a_o proportion_n between_o heaven_n and_o they_o but_o as_o though_o that_o be_v not_o enough_o a_o further_a efficacy_n be_v attribute_v to_o they_o for_o obtain_v mercy_n for_o other_o too_o his_o lordship_n therefore_o do_v not_o go_v about_o to_o pervert_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o prayer_n use_v in_o your_o missal_n but_o the_o plain_a word_n and_o sense_n of_o they_o evident_o show_v how_o contrary_a they_o be_v to_o christian_a doctrine_n and_o piety_n bellarmin_n saying_n that_o the_o saint_n may_v in_o some_o sense_n be_v call_v our_o redeemer_n can_v be_v vindicate_v by_o that_o say_n of_o s._n paul_n that_o he_o become_v all_o thing_n to_o all_o man_n that_o he_o may_v save_v some_o 9.23_o because_o salvation_n respect_v the_o effect_n of_o christ_n death_n the_o promotion_n of_o which_o may_v in_o some_o sense_n be_v attribute_v to_o the_o instrument_n of_o it_o such_o as_o s._n paul_n be_v here_o on_o earth_n but_o redemption_n respect_v the_o merit_n by_o which_o that_o effect_n be_v obtain_v and_o so_o belong_v whole_o to_o christ_n and_o can_v be_v attribute_v to_o any_o saint_n either_o in_o earth_n or_o heaven_n when_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o any_o subordinate_a instrument_n of_o god_n power_n be_v call_v numina_fw-la you_o may_v then_o excuse_v bellarmin_n for_o call_v the_o saint_n so_o but_o that_o be_v so_o incongruous_a a_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n that_o it_o need_v no_o confutation_n we_o be_v now_o come_v to_o the_o last_o error_n which_o his_o lordship_n here_o charge_v your_o pretend_a general_n council_n with_o which_o be_v 26._o concern_v adoration_n of_o image_n of_o which_o his_o lordship_n say_v that_o the_o ancient_a church_n know_v it_o not_o and_o the_o modern_a church_n of_o rome_n be_v too_o like_a to_o paganism_n in_o the_o practice_n of_o it_o 277._o and_o drive_v to_o scarce_o intelligible_a subtlety_n in_o her_o servant_n write_n that_o defend_v it_o and_o this_o without_o any_o care_n have_v of_o million_o of_o soul_n unable_a to_o understand_v her_o subtlety_n or_o shun_v her_o practice_n here_o you_o say_v the_o bishop_n be_v very_o bitter_a but_o no_o more_o than_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n require_v all_o the_o answer_v you_o return_v to_o this_o lie_v in_o these_o thing_n 1._o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n teach_v nothing_o concern_v the_o worship_n of_o image_n 294._o but_o what_o the_o second_o council_n of_o nice_a do_v nine_o hundred_o year_n ago_o which_o be_v that_o they_o must_v be_v have_v in_o veneration_n and_o due_a reverence_n but_o not_o have_v divine_a worship_n give_v to_o they_o 2._o that_o image_n be_v in_o common_a use_n and_o veneration_n too_o among_o christian_n in_o the_o ancient_a church_n 3._o that_o what_o abuse_n be_v creep_v in_o be_v not_o to_o be_v impute_v to_o the_o church_n but_o to_o particular_a person_n this_o be_v the_o substance_n of_o what_o you_o say_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o chapter_n as_o to_o which_o a_o brief_a answer_n will_v suffice_v because_o i_o design_v not_o a_o full_a handle_v the_o question_n of_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n if_o that_o which_o you_o say_v in_o the_o first_o place_n be_v true_a it_o do_v the_o more_o prove_v that_o which_o his_o lordship_n intend_v viz._n that_o not_o one_o bare_o but_o two_o of_o those_o you_o own_o to_o be_v general_a council_n have_v err_v in_o this_o particular_a if_o either_o those_o council_n or_o you_o have_v intend_v to_o have_v deal_v fair_o and_o honest_o with_o the_o world_n they_o and_o you_o shall_v have_v declare_v what_o that_o veneration_n and_o reverence_n be_v which_o be_v due_a to_o image_n what_o difference_n you_o put_v between_o that_o and_o the_o worship_n due_a to_o god_n and_o whether_o the_o same_o pretence_n and_o excuse_n will_v not_o as_o well_o have_v justify_v the_o pagan_a idolatry_n for_o this_o be_v it_o which_o his_o lordship_n charge_v you_o with_o that_o you_o come_v too_o near_a paganism_n in_o your_o practice_n but_o as_o to_o this_o you_o answer_v nothing_o but_o that_o if_o you_o do_v so_o do_v the_o council_n of_o nice_a too_o but_o be_v that_o a_o sufficient_a excuse_n for_o you_o it_o be_v well_o enough_o know_v what_o kind_n of_o council_n that_o be_v how_o much_o it_o be_v oppose_v by_o the_o synod_n of_o frankford_n how_o many_o person_n both_o in_o the_o eastern_a and_o western_a church_n declare_v themselves_o against_o the_o doctrine_n of_o it_o but_o what_o a_o pitiful_a plea_n be_v it_o for_o you_o to_o say_v that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n have_v silence_v all_o calumny_n by_o say_v that_o you_o attribute_v no_o divinity_n to_o the_o image_n but_o only_o worship_v they_o with_o such_o honour_n and_o reverence_n as_o be_v due_a to_o they_o will_v not_o any_o considerate_a heathen_n have_v say_v as_o much_o as_o this_o be_v but_o the_o question_n be_v whether_o that_o veneration_n of_o they_o which_o be_v use_v by_o you_o towards_o image_n be_v due_a to_o they_o or_o no_o this_o you_o shall_v have_v undertake_v and_o set_v the_o distinct_a limit_n between_o the_o worship_n due_a to_o god_n and_o that_o which_o be_v give_v to_o these_o you_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o this_o be_v no_o prohibit_v way_n of_o worship_n for_o if_o it_o be_v it_o can_v in_o no_o sense_n be_v due_a to_o they_o for_o since_o god_n may_v determine_v the_o mode_n of_o his_o own_o worship_n what_o he_o have_v forbid_v in_o his_o service_n become_v unlawful_a and_o so_o long_o as_o that_o command_n continue_v in_o force_n all_o act_n of_o worship_n contrary_n to_o it_o be_v a_o positive_a kind_n of_o idolatry_n for_o as_o there_o be_v a_o kind_n of_o natural_a idolatry_n lie_v in_o the_o worship_n of_o false_a god_n instead_o of_o the_o true_a so_o there_o be_v that_o which_o may_v be_v call_v positive_a idolatry_n which_o be_v a_o worship_a god_n in_o a_o way_n or_o manner_n which_o he_o have_v forbid_v from_o whence_o the_o israelite_n in_o the_o golden_a calf_n and_o the_o ten_o tribe_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o calf_n at_o dan_n and_o bethel_n be_v charge_v with_o idolatry_n although_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o true_a god_n and_o design_v that_o for_o a_o relative_n worship_n to_o he_o if_o it_o be_v so_o then_o you_o shall_v have_v show_v we_o how_o it_o come_v to_o be_v otherwise_o
refreshment_n by_o our_o prayer_n and_o that_o they_o obtain_v pardon_n and_o mercy_n and_o deliverance_n from_o pain_n for_o they_o and_o that_o by_o the_o help_n of_o our_o prayer_n they_o be_v bring_v to_o eternal_a rest_n and_o happiness_n but_o all_o this_o fall_v short_a of_o your_o purpose_n unless_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o any_o of_o they_o either_o believe_v or_o pray_v that_o any_o such_o ease_n and_o refreshment_n be_v obtain_v by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n before_o the_o day_n of_o resurrection_n that_o they_o pray_v that_o god_n will_v have_v mercy_n upon_o they_o in_o that_o day_n we_o deny_v not_o which_o imply_v ease_n comfort_n refreshment_n pardon_n deliverance_n from_o pain_n and_o eternal_a happiness_n but_o then_o all_o this_o refer_v not_o to_o any_o purgatory-pain_n which_o they_o have_v undergo_v before_o but_o those_o eternal_a pain_n which_o their_o sin_n deserve_v if_o god_n shall_v deal_v in_o justice_n with_o they_o we_o grant_v then_o that_o supplication_n and_o intercession_n be_v use_v in_o the_o church_n for_o the_o dead_a but_o we_o say_v they_o do_v respect_n by_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o church_n the_o day_n of_o judgement_n and_o god_n final_a justification_n of_o they_o by_o his_o sentence_n at_o that_o day_n for_o the_o scripture_n as_o my_o lord_n primate_n true_o say_v every_o where_o do_v point_n out_o that_o great_a day_n to_o we_o as_o the_o day_n wherein_o mercy_n and_o forgiveness_n rest_n and_o refresh_v joy_n and_o gladness_n redemption_n and_o salvation_n 227._o reward_n and_o crown_n shall_v be_v bestow_v upon_o all_o god_n child_n 2_o tim._n 1.16.18_o 1_o cor._n 1.8_o act._n 3.19_o 2_o thes._n 1.6_o 7._o phil._n 2.19_o 1_o thes._n 2.16_o 1_o pet._n 1.5_o 1_o cor._n 5.5_o ephes._n 4.30_o luk._n 21.28_o 2_o tim._n 4.8_o luk._n 14.14_o from_o whence_o it_o be_v no_o improbable_a deduction_n that_o even_o the_o soul_n of_o good_a man_n do_v not_o enjoy_v their_o full_a and_o complete_a felicity_n till_o the_o great_a day_n not_o that_o they_o either_o sleep_v or_o undergo_v any_o purgatory_n pain_n but_o that_o they_o be_v at_o rest_n from_o their_o labour_n and_o in_o a_o bless_a condition_n but_o still_o wait_v with_o a_o solicitous_a expectation_n for_o the_o glorious_a come_v of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v then_o receive_v the_o reward_n prepare_v for_o they_o before_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o world_n but_o whether_o those_o soul_n be_v in_o heaven_n as_o it_o note_v a_o place_n and_o not_o a_o state_n whether_o the_o degree_n of_o their_o happiness_n be_v proportionable_a till_o the_o great_a day_n to_o the_o degree_n of_o grace_n which_o they_o have_v when_o they_o leave_v the_o world_n be_v question_n of_o more_o curiosity_n than_o necessity_n to_o be_v resolve_v but_o as_o long_o as_o the_o scripture_n do_v insist_v so_o much_o on_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o great_a day_n both_o as_o to_o reward_n and_o punishment_n we_o do_v not_o condemn_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n in_o those_o prayer_n which_o do_v thus_o respect_v the_o day_n of_o resurrection_n if_o any_o of_o the_o father_n have_v any_o particular_a opinion_n concern_v the_o state_n of_o the_o dead_a and_o of_o the_o benefit_n which_o come_v to_o they_o by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n we_o be_v no_o more_o concern_v to_o defend_v they_o than_o you_o be_v to_o defend_v those_o who_o you_o acknowledge_v to_o hold_v that_o no_o soul_n do_v enjoy_v the_o beatifical_a vision_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n against_o who_o bellarmin_n and_o other_o dispute_v at_o large_a since_o you_o therefore_o confess_v yourselves_o that_o some_o of_o the_o great_a of_o the_o father_n do_v for_o many_o age_n hold_v erroneous_a opinion_n crncern_v the_o state_n of_o the_o dead_a with_o what_o reason_n can_v you_o press_v we_o with_o the_o testimony_n of_o those_o who_o you_o refuse_v yourselves_o and_o since_o they_o have_v so_o many_o different_a opinion_n concern_v the_o state_n of_o soul_n it_o seem_v strange_a that_o none_o of_o they_o at_o least_o till_o s._n augustin_n time_n shall_v hit_v upon_o such_o a_o state_n of_o purgation_n whereby_o they_o may_v be_v free_v from_o pain_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n and_o yet_o we_o find_v not_o one_o of_o they_o which_o do_v so_o much_o as_o dream_v of_o that_o purgatory_n which_o you_o call_v the_o upper_a region_n of_o hell_n or_o of_o any_o punishment_n which_o they_o who_o die_v in_o favour_n with_o god_n shall_v undergo_v between_o death_n and_o judgement_n out_o of_o which_o they_o may_v be_v deliver_v by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n many_o of_o they_o indeed_o suppose_v that_o soul_n be_v keep_v in_o secret_a receptacle_n but_o they_o be_v far_o from_o assert_v that_o they_o undergo_v at_o all_o any_o pain_n equal_a to_o the_o damn_a much_o less_o that_o any_o soul_n be_v translate_v thence_o to_o glory_n upon_o the_o intercession_n make_v for_o they_o other_o suppose_v that_o the_o soul_n of_o all_o good_a man_n be_v at_o last_o to_o pass_v through_o the_o fire_n of_o conflagration_n at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n other_o that_o the_o soul_n of_o wicked_a man_n may_v either_o escape_v or_o have_v their_o torment_n mitigate_v but_o all_o this_o while_n your_o purgatory_n be_v unthought_a of_o and_o be_v not_o conceive_v till_o afterward_o through_o the_o ignorance_n and_o superstition_n of_o some_o countenance_v by_o pretend_a apparition_n and_o vision_n of_o soul_n depart_v till_o at_o last_o it_o grow_v to_o be_v one_o of_o the_o favourite-opinion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n from_o whence_o it_o may_v easy_o appear_v how_o very_o much_o you_o be_v deceive_v when_o you_o will_v infer_v because_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a as_o it_o be_v now_o use_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v necessary_o suppose_v purgatory_n therefore_o it_o must_v do_v so_o in_o the_o ancient_a church_n for_o although_o we_o shall_v grant_v the_o same_o prayer_n to_o be_v still_o use_v yet_o since_o they_o be_v use_v for_o a_o quite_o different_a intent_n that_o may_v be_v suppose_v by_o you_o which_o be_v not_o at_o all_o suppose_a by_o they_o nor_o can_v be_v infer_v from_o what_o they_o do_v and_o yet_o it_o be_v plain_a that_o in_o some_o case_n you_o have_v change_v the_o prayer_n for_o the_o saint_n into_o prayer_n to_o they_o for_o whereas_o in_o the_o old_a gregorian_a sacramentary_a it_o be_v grant_v unto_o we_o o_o lord_n that_o this_o oblation_n may_v profit_v the_o soul_n of_o thy_o servant_n leo_n 210._o in_o the_o latter_a book_n it_o be_v turn_v into_o this_o grant_v unto_o we_o o_o lord_n that_o by_o the_o intercession_n of_o thy_o servant_n leo_n this_o oblation_n may_v profit_v we_o from_o whence_o you_o may_v see_v that_o your_o prayer_n be_v change_v from_o what_o they_o be_v for_o the_o ancient_a church_n pray_v universal_o for_o all_o saint_n and_o martyr_n but_o you_o think_v it_o a_o disparagement_n to_o they_o to_o pray_v for_o they_o and_o therefore_o from_o your_o kind_n of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a we_o may_v well_o say_v that_o purgatory_n be_v suppose_v but_o we_o can_v possible_o infer_v it_o from_o those_o prayer_n which_o be_v make_v for_o such_o who_o if_o any_o be_v suppose_v in_o a_o state_n of_o bliss_n and_o happiness_n 9_o and_o that_o the_o intention_n of_o your_o church_n be_v quite_o different_a from_o the_o ancient_n we_o now_o come_v more_o full_o to_o make_v manifest_a because_o none_o of_o they_o do_v believe_v that_o doctrine_n of_o purgatory_n which_o you_o assert_v but_o herein_o we_o must_v follow_v your_o footstep_n and_o consider_v the_o many_o authority_n which_o you_o produce_v out_o of_o bellarmin_n and_o undertake_v to_o vindicate_v in_o behalf_n of_o purgatory_n to_o which_o i_o give_v this_o general_a answer_n that_o some_o author_n be_v counterfeit_a and_o the_o place_n supposititious_a of_o those_o that_o be_v true_a some_o speak_v only_o of_o commemoration_n of_o the_o dead_a and_o oblation_n make_v for_o they_o other_o respect_v the_o day_n of_o resurrection_n and_o the_o fire_n of_o conflagration_n other_o the_o purge_n of_o the_o wicked_a other_o only_o of_o a_o purgation_n in_o this_o life_n but_o none_o of_o they_o all_o speak_v of_o any_o purgatory_n pain_n of_o those_o who_o die_v in_o favour_n with_o god_n which_o they_o undergo_v as_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n of_o sin_n from_o whence_o they_o may_v be_v deliver_v by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n which_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n you_o shall_v prove_v from_o they_o and_o this_o i_o come_v to_o make_v appear_v by_o the_o examination_n of_o the_o particular_n as_o they_o occur_v in_o order_n the_o first_o you_o begin_v with_o be_v dionysius_n areopagita_n and_o be_v not_o he_o say_v you_o 361._o a_o author_n of_o the_o first_o three_o hundred_o year_n as_o