Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	intercession_n	mediator_n	redemption_n	1,722	5	9.9845	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19150	Epphata to F.T., or, The defence of the Right Reuerend Father in God, the Lord Bishop of Elie, Lord High-Almoner and Priuie Counsellour to the Kings Most Excellent Maiestie concerning his answer to Cardinall Bellarmines apologie, against the slaunderous cauills of a namelesse adioyner, entitling his booke in euery page of it, A discouerie of many fowle absurdities, falsities, lyes, &c. : wherein these things cheifely are discussed, (besides many other incident), 1. The popes false primacie, clayming by Peter, 2. Invocation of saints, with worship of creatures, and faith in them, 3. The supremacie of kings both in temporall and ecclesiasticall matters and causes, ouer all states and persons, &c. within their realmes and dominions / by Dr. Collins ...	Collins, Samuel, 1576-1651.; Bellarmino, Roberto Francesco Romolo, Saint, 1542-1621. Apologia.	1617 (1617)	STC 5561; ESTC S297	540,970	628

the Apocalyps cap. 8. v. 3. after their Popish sense There were giuen vnto him many incenses that he should offer of the prayers of ALL Saints p. 304 91. Substantiall seruice of God there must bee none besides his word though decent ceremonies be left to discretion Caetera disponam The Adioynders instats to the contrary are answered à pag. 305. ad 309 92. The inditers of holy writ had commaundement for their doing p. 309. 310. vide Irenaeum lib. 3. c. 1. Per Dei voluntatem Euangelium nobis in Scripturis tradiderunt primò qui illud ipsum praeconiauerunt c. Sed Aug. de consensu Euangelist l. 2. c. extremo Deus ipse scripsit quae Apostoli Euangelistae scripserunt Quia scribenda illis tanquam SVIS MANIBVS imperauit Certè autem manus si consultò agunt nihil admodum agunt sine imperio animae Ergò 93. Baptisme of young children hath sufficient grounds in Scripture p. 310. 311 94. How the Churches determination stoppes heretikes mouthes though the Scriptures are silent p. 311. 312 95. The Canon of the Church of England about the Crosse in Baptisme no way guilty of the Adioynders malepert slaunder p. 312. 313. 314. 96. A viuis ad Diuos non sequitur consequentia And what the reason is p. 315 97. Onely Christ is mediator as well of intercession as of redemption p. 316. 317 98. The absurd blasphemy of the Iesuites as if God the Father commended vs to Christ his sonne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 317 99. The booke of Daniel makes not for praying to Saints or putting confidence in them Origen against it What is done for the Saints sake is not done for their merits sake nor to bee drawne to Inuocation p. 318. 319. 320 100. Bigge words of the Adioynder that the graunting of our prayers is to be ascribed to the authority that the Saints haue not onely to their suite Aptissima muscipula ad idololatriam p. 320. 101. The Papists faile in their probations by the Fathers touching prayer to Saints for all their iolly crakes More good Latine of the Adioynders p. 321 102. The Adioynders water will seeth no beefe He should haue testimonies enough he saies for praying to Saints out of the Fathers writings but that in such and such ages very few Fathers wrote at all p. 322 103. The signe of the Crosse hath antiquitie to commend it besides authoritie to commaund it Praying to Saints hath neither the one to be respected nor the other to be obeyed p. 323 104. Bishops may erre Chrys 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Episcopi vexant ecclesiam sicut Iobum vxor amici sui The safest relying when all is done is vpon Scripture Erunt stabula fidelium illic à pag. 323. ad 326 105. Fathers scattered misse of the validitie that they haue in Synods Vide Bell. de auct Concil l. 2. c. 2. Episcopos SEORSVM existentes spiritus sanctus non docet omnem veritatem ibid. in fine Sine dubio SINGVLI Episcopi errare possunt c. Vide eundem c. 6. Alia ratio est Pastorum in Concilio congregatorum alia vero dispersorum c. p. 326 106. Malum ex sanctuario Sal fatuum The Church-men broach error p. 327 107. The Scripture winnes the field though the Fathers come in at triumph And so meant S. Austen when he charges vpon Iulian with the authoritie of sixe Bishops as sufficient to conuict him Els we know sixe Bishops are nothing to weigh with the world of faithfull besides Originall sinne plaine by Scripture though the Adioynder stone-blind cannot see it p. 328. 329. 108. Once againe the Adioynders stale trumperies from Benefits and Miracles to conclude for Inuocation of Saints in blisse But Ter si resurgat c. p. 330 109. Two witnesses not to be heard against Christ or his word nor yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Peters priuie nippe in Galat. 2. as Remigius conceiues of it But the Popes for certaine or whosoeuer is the prime ibid. 110. Corruption easily creepes into the Church p. 331 111. Origens wauering about Saints praying for vs Audivi quendam ità dicentem c. But peremptorie that we must not pray to Saints or heauenly Angells but to God onely through Iesus Christ à pag. 332. ad 339. latè 112. The Bishops testimonies against praying to Saints which he produces out of the Fathers are farre more pregnant then ab authoritate negativè as the Adioynder slaunders him p. 340. 341. 113. The Bishops quotation of Athanasius most vpright and most authenticall though it please Mr. Adioynder either of blindnes or boldnes to denie that there is any such text in the booke By occasion of search not onely that but seuen more places of Athanasius are alleadged all of them neere hand and to the same effect viz. that God onely is to be adored and prayed vnto not Creatures p. 342. 343 CHAP. 9. 114. THe Bishop changes wordes without changing the question giuing more light to it He is not tied to tearmes as the Adioynder and they that haue no great store of Latine beforehand Earthly Monarchie disctaimed in shew but challenged in substance by the Adioynder and his copes-mates p. 345 115. Supererogation The Bishop swarueth not from the state of the question p. 346. 347. 348 116. The Sacrament not at all Christ euery where to be adored p. 348. 349. 350 117. Adoration of relliques The Bishop constant to the question though they cauill him for the cōtrarie Yea so constant that they carpe him for his very constancie to the Kings Apologie with the same breath p. 350. 351 118. S. Iohn was at a fault worshipping the Angell p. 351 119. The Adioynder turnes all into courting and complement betweene the Angell and S. Iohn p. 352 120. The very Popish authors will not permit vs to worship Angells since the Incarnation of Christ So as the Adioynder pleading for it shewes who is the Iew and the digger vp of ceremonies like Sara vnder the Oke as he reniles the Bishop but most senselesly euery where p. 353 121. No third kind of adoration Therefore no relligious to creatures ibid. p. 354 122. Iosephs rodde how worshipped by Iacob p. 355. 356. 357. 123. The worshipping of the footestoole Nabuchodonosors adoring of Daniel Subiection to Infidells is no disparagement to true vertue p. 357. 358 124. Awodden reason and a wicked yeelded by the Adioynder why it is called relligious worship viz. because done to relligious persons But by that reason God himselfe should haue no part in it who beares relligion to none The Saints so let in as God himselfe is shut out by our deuout Iesuits p. 359. 360 125. No adoration and yet a ciuill adoration makes no contradiction in the sense ibid. 126. Gregorie de Valentia flatly denying relligious worship to Creatures p. 360 127. The Bishop not to blame for expounding S. Hierome by S.

Bishop seemes to graunt that to pray vnto Saints is either good of it selfe or at least indifferent Why so For if it were absolutely bad saith he it were in vaine to demaund a precept of it which notwithstanding he doth What and if he demaund of them that thinke they doe well in so doing Yet the Bedlam addes So as either this his demaund is verie idle and absurd or else he must acknowledge it at least to be indifferent and consequently no lesse lawfull then the Crosse in Baptisme Time and paper how are you cast away § 35. Num. 45. If we cannot pray to Saints without iniury to Christ how doe we craue one anothers prayers here in earth If of sinners why not of Saints If of men why not of Angels Thus he And why might Adoniah marry lower and yet not match with Abishac his fathers concubine without high treason Of deepe prouidence hath almightie God enlarged charitie amongst Saints on earth and ratified the exhibitions therof by law But where there is no feare of decaying it any more as in the heauenly Kingdome where 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Cor. 15. the offices are superfluous that tend thereunto and all reference to the glorified spirits so complete of themselues that wee cannot requite their fauours with the like is construed to be preiudiciall to our common King By which we answer also to your retortion of the Bishops text in your numb 47. Is the desiring the prayers of liuing Saints as much as Venite ad me Doe not they come to vs as well as we to them in this sort Venite ad me therefore is a farre other matter and to bee shunned towards Angels towards heauenly Saints not so the borrowing of aide the imploring of help of men and pilgrimes such as our selues are § 36. Numb 49. You acknowledge like a man that Christ is our onely Mediatour by way of prayer as well as of redemption Accedens per semetipsum Heb. 7. and many such like Hold you to that then Your foote stands right if you can keepe it so And when S. Iohn saith whome you also quote 1. Ioh. 2. We haue an aduocate and he is the propitiation doth he not shewe that propitiation goes to make an aduocate So Vnus est Mediator but qui dedit se pro omnibus that is by redemption 1. Tim. 2. they goe still together Now the Angels are not for the one therefore not for the other § 37 You answer vs as you thinke Num. 52. That the Angels are not excluded as Mediators to God for vs but that by way of Christs merits they may mediate well enough and so you construe that of Austen contra Epist Parmen cap. 8. lib. 2. that onely Christ prayes for all he whets the prayers that others offer for vs. But what are Christs merits to the Angels good Sir what interest haue they in them Doe you thinke they were directed to the vse of Angels that they should lay hold on them And if not so with what confidence shall they pray to God through them how shal they desire to be heard of God whether they pray for vs or for themselues for that skils not by the merits of Christ as you fancie We haue heard that prayer presupposeth faith Shall the Angels repose trust in the merits of Christ which belong not to them So are you tossed in your vanity like a boate in a storme that you forget the verie principles of Christian relligion namely that Christ neuer tooke the Angels vpon him but the seed of Abraham Heb. 2. and for vs hee suffered not for them and by him not by them are we to be brought to God as Theodoret as Chrysost as Theophylact as Photius told you before as the Scripture euery where per quem habemus accessum Eph. 2. 18. § 38. Yet you say the Church concludeth her prayers to Saints and Angels per Christum Dominum nostrum adiuring belike the Saint to be gratious vnto vs for Christs sake for what els is the meaning of that clause As if Christ were now our Mediatour to the Saint not the Saint to Christ So are you gyddied and hurled vp and downe with euery blast of vaine doctrine euerie puffe of temeritie The like I read in Maffaeus his life of Ignatius the Iesuite-maker lib. 2. c. 5. that God the Father commended the Iesuites to his Sonne whom the Scripture speakes of as our commender to the Father and no otherwise A voice was heard from heauen saying to Salmeron and Laynez and those good fellowes Ego vos commendaui or conciliaui filio meo These were the trances and the windlaces of the first Iesuites § 39. But least you thinke you can wrest that club of S. Austen contra Epist Parmen before quoted out of the Bishops hands viz. that Christ is hee alone pro quo nemo interpellat sed ipse pro omnibus for whome no bodie makes request but he for all you may please to consider that if this be so then must the Angels of force giue ouer beeing Mediatours For if they mediate at all they must mediate for all and none for them which S. Austen saith is proper to Christ None for them because they are in no want as other folkes are all teares beeing wiped from their eyes or rather neuer any teare hauing bedewed their cheekes Againe they for all because burning with charitie they neglect none but compassionate the cause of all them that are in distresse And from hence it will follow that either Christ must needes giue ouer this specialtie which S. Austen inuests him with or the Angels their mediation Doe you see now how fitly the Bishop vrgeth this place against you and how you haue inuerted that of Daniel in stead of millia millium ministrabant ei setting vp so many Angels qui depraedentur eum to supplant God and robbe him of his honour § 40. But let vs heare you out of Daniel what you alleadge for your selfe Num. 57. out of Dan. 3. that militant Christians fare the better for the prayers of the Saints in glorie because Daniel belike vrgeth God with his promise to Abraham and Isaac c. This I finde not in the 3. of Dan. and the question is not whether Saints benefit vs or no but whether we may pray to them In this place Daniel onely mentions them to God but makes no petition to them himselfe Yet because it is a phrase that occurres in Scripture and may stumble the heedelesse I answer briefly For Abraham and Isaac and Israels sake that is not for the merits of the men as you construe it whereas they neuer entreated by their owne merits much lesse others by theirs see Dan. 9. 8. but for the tenure of Gods promise running vpon Abraham vpon Isaac and their seede So our Sauiour in S. Iohn Adhuc nihil rogâstis in nomine meo As yet you haue asked nothing in my name In my name that is in

like of the deposition of diuers Bishops of Constantinople by the Popes as you say and namely that Agapetus deposed Anthimus with many more Shall I tell you what wise men are wont to say in this case Agapetus did depose Anthimus but was Anthimus deposed as much to say They did their best but de bene esse onely and valeat vt valere potest for authoritie they had none And therefore all this while the Canon is not impeached but remains good § 18. What should I tell you of Euagrius l. 2. hist c. 4. that this Canon was enacted in that Councell by the Fathers not forged by the Bishop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you may read the rest in the very end of the chapter that Constātinople had 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 onely short of Rome and short but in 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as hath beene said in order or in number as the Logicians are wont to discerne things of the same species I might adde Iustinian Balsamon Zonaras the Councell quinisextum at Constantinople in Trullo c. 36. which both deduces it from the first generall Councell in Constantinop c. 3. which you quarrell and recites the words that offend you most in this of Chalcedon about aequalia priuilegia and Magnificari sicut illam equall priuiledges or equal prerogatiues and to be aduanced like as the other But I goe forward Indeed nothing is more absurd or rather can be then your descanting vpon intercedere in a double sense that you bring to shew you haue some smacke of the Latin yet at least when your masters and monitors helpe you Because the Bishop had said Leone frustrà intercedente per literas suas apud Augustum Augustam Anatolium that the Canon tooke place for all that Leo could doe by his letters to the Emperour to the Empresse and to Anatolius you dreame of intercession like that to the Saints which you build out of places as well construed as this And because in other places the Bishop happily so vseth the word following your owne tearmes for your better capacitie therefore you conclude he vses it so here but especially because else Leo should haue beene so potent as to resist the Emperour As if intercedere per literas did not a little mollifie the matter which is to hinder and to disswade but by his writing onely and how humble that Or to shew that Leo did all he could yet to no purpose which frustrà giues you to vnderstand added by the Bishop in the same sentence non frustrà But if you will needes make Leo so sawcie a Prelate you may doe as you please your iudgement is free concerning the Popes whom you pretend to honour we find his letters to be of another straine very humble supplicatorie towards the great ones especially and had rather construe more gently of him Sciens gloriosam Clementiam vestram Ecclesiasticae studere concordiae c. precor sedulâ suggestione vos obsecro Epist 54. ad Martianum Augustum That is Knowing your royall grace to be zealous of Church vnitie I pray and beseech you by diligent suggestion c. Neither any command shall you finde giuen by him to the Emperour nor resistance of authoritie though he professe much zeale to maintaine the Canons thinking he might not breake them as was said before Wherein neuerthelesse you dissent from him and say he might So as if you had beene his counsellor not onely this had bin a Canon but euen a Canon by Leo's owne consent which you so much oppose vnder colour of his name at this day § 19. But are the Iesuits so idle or so adle rather as to thinke that they may put such tricks I will not say vpon the Bishop cui nulla ciconia pinsit but vpon the yongest scholler in our Vniuersities as because intercedere hath a double sense either to withstand or to entreat they may pin which they list of the twaine vpon vs Was not the word rather chose by the Bishop of purpose to shew what a withstanding Leo vsed namely ioyned with entreatie as if all his resistance could not goe beyond praiers which another that had waighed the double meaning of the word and with single eye lookt into the matter would rather haue beleeued to be the Bishops very drift and especiall aime But how should then the Adioynder haue blurred so much paper to shew that Leo did make no suit Sure those words before alleadged out of his Epistle to Marcian put it out of doubt that he did make suit whatsoeuer this iangler mumble to the contrarie Et precor sedulâ suggestione vos obsecro I both pray and beseech you dutifully aduising or informing What can be plainer As for that he saies non frustrà not in vaine because the Emperour praised Leo for his constancie we haue refuted it before and the very euent proclaimes as much that it was frustrà or in vaine the Canon hauing gotten the credit which they in vaine maligne § 20. Now for that which he cites out of his Epistle to Pulcheria the 55. in number Consensiones Episcoporum repugnantes regulis apud Niceam conditis in irritū mittimus if it had beene onely so it might haue shewed Leoes resolution against the Canon and his stoutnes to deny it for his part not but all this while he was suppliant to the Emperesse But when he addes moreouer vnitâ nobiscum vestrae fidei pietate and per authoritatem B. Petri Apostols what a vantage does this giue euen to Pulcheria her selfe to interpose in determination of Church-businesses and as it seemes a kind of fellowship in S. Peters authority Yet this is our lay-Iesuites dish aboue Commons which before he called liberall dealing § 21. Concerning Anatolius his receauing to fauour and I know not what submission that he would faine bring him to as it were to aske Leo pardon I must tell him as before that Anatolius his cause and the Canon are two If either weakenes or dissimulation made him to shrink yet the Canon prospered and thriued daily neither did the Bishop say frustrà contra ingenium personae but contra Canonē only in that Leo made head in vaine against the Canon not against Anatolius his disposition which is nothing to our matter § 22. Neither are his reasons sound which he brings why Leo should be against the Canon though as I sayd neither this touches at all the Bishop as beeing no refutation of any part of his booke neither is it ought worthy our consideration since we hold the Canon might be good without Leo. Indeede they hold that Leoes consent was requisite to the enacting of it but that they prooue not His reasons for Leo are these 4. First because it sprang from Anatolius proud humour to aduance himselfe inordinately But this is a flat slaunder of Anatolius not a iustification of Leo or though it were true of Anatolius priuate part that he had

the worthy name which is called vpon you 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is as our late English excellently well hath it by which you are called And Esay 4. Seuen women shall say to one man let thy name be called vpon vs in the very same sense that is let vs be reckoned and accounted thine Salomon a little otherwise in the dedication of his temple desires that Gods name may be called vpon it yet not as if the temple should pray to God c. But the rather did the Patriarch here desire this concerning Ephraim and Manasseh least the disparity of their birth hauing an Egyptian to their mother might quaile their confidence in Gods promises to their Fathers and that they might know they had as good interest in them as the rest of their kindred § 6. As for S. Austens place Locutinoum de Genesi num 200. Hee determines not whether the Patriarks were inuocated by their children as F. T. would beare vs in hand or vpon them rather as we say but onely biddes vs note that the word inuocation is sometime veryfied vpon men aswell as vpon God and so exaudition likewise What of that § 7. Numb 7. Let him prooue and not say or not say till he prooue that intercession to Saints by our seeking to them and intercession of Saints to God for vs is all one Negamus pernegamus In all Chrysostomes Liturgy I meane that which beares his name where there is mention of the intercession of Saints for vs so many and so sundry times there is not the least praying on the faithfulls part so much as once to the greatest Saint § 8. To the. 9. Numb It will neuer be disprooued what the Bishop answers to S. Basils authority that aliud est faceré aliud statuere and Legibus non exemplis viuen dum est Gregory Nazianz. saying is as I remember Priuilegia paucorum non faciunt legem Ecclesiae Seneca himselfe Permittit sibi quaedam contra bonum morem magna pietas And what though S. Basil should draw an argument from thence which he doth not Does not S. Paul so from a corrupt fashion of baptising ouer the dead in some Writers opinions 1. Cor. 15. See Bellar. de Purgat lib. 1. cap. 6. confessing as much Likewise Chrysostome giues folke leaue to sweare by themselues that the name of God might be lesse dishonoured by them in their daily mention Is it lawful therefore to sweare by ones selfe Himselfe denyes it in the same place § 9. Numb 25. He saies there is no ordinance or no decree but in Councells Let him bring them hardly then let him cite the Councells Are not they Fathers and multiplyed Fathers Will his MAIESTIE refuse the Councells wherein so many speake as one man that is content to be ordered by the Fathers in singular if the authority be pregnant and the antiquity sufficient But how shamefully does he belye the Councell of Gangra Neither is any such thing in the Proeme there nor yet in the Canons Onely a corruption is crept into the Proeme which is nothing materiall neither though it were graunted See the Greeke at Paris of Tilius his edition see other Greeke copies And is to meet at Churches or not to shun assemblyes in Basilicis martyrum all one with the inuocation of Saints now become Why rather should we not thinke their priuate masse condemned vnder a Priest and his boy in the 6. Canon of that Councell contra 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against them that assemble without a lawful assembly as likewise their Gossip-baptizers taxed in that which followes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is against the performers of Churchbusinesses without Priestly assistance c. On the other side how mainely are the Popish practises in that Preface confuted About the honour of the married life the indifferency of celebrating with Priests married or vnmarried against women leauing their proper husbands to obserue the profession of I know not what continencie but like theirs certainly Against affectation of apparell as in the Nuns and Fryars now of all colours Yea for the authority of Masters ouer their seruants the very case of Supremacy this day in question though the one be Christian the other an infidell of which point Epiphanius most sweetly in a certaine place Nauis ecclesiae non recipit fugitivum neque qui à proprijs Dominis discedit The ship of God or of his Church admits no run-away nor for saker of his owne masters Against departing with riches vnder hope of more holynes which is their vow of pouerty so magnifyed at this day I might adde out of comparison of the 19. Canon with the second in that Councell that although fastings such as the Church appoints are to be kept which we deny not yet without preferring of fish before flesh as the more holy which is their error And doe they tell vs of the Councell of Gangra In which there is not one syllable neither in preface nor bulke of praying to Saints Yea in the 20. Canon 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 beeing distinctly so mentioned and attributed to the Martyrs 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 are put absolutely as onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Gods onely Yet we haue Councells against them euen auncient Councells prayer to Angells beeing condemned in the Laodicean Councell and called a close Idolatry of which hereafter Now if to Angels how much more to Saints as Epiphanius his argument is Ne Angeli quidem nedum silia Annae No not the Angels much lesse the daughter of Anna which is their highest Saint See the Councell of Nice Can. 20. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 prayers to God and to God onely as S. Paul in the Acts. 26. 29. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 2. Cor. 13. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is not Pauls speach more then vox ipsius naturae the voice of Nature Men praying still to God and to God onely by the instinct of nature As Tertullian obserues somewhat not vnlike in his Apologet O testimonium animae naturaliter Christianae Nature her selfe teacheth men this point of relligion But passe wee to more § 10. S. Hierome against Vigilantius neuer patronizes in one word praying to Saints Yet F. T. is not ashamed to confound the questions still of their praying for vs with ours to them Whereas if they pray for vs they pray to God and all our question tends onely to the end that God be not intermedled with in his right to heare prayers For so in the Psalm 64. I ween Thou that hearest the prayer and To thee shall all flesh come Well may they goe together The hearer of the prayer is the receiuer of all to him But no particular Saint receiues all flesh to him Ergò Againe Psal 5. v. 1 2 3 4 5. many reasons are giuen of his praying to God vnto thee doe I

pray saith he which vtterly abolish all praying to Saints As namely the absolute puritie of the diuine essence For thou art a God with whom dwells no wickednes wheras in his Angels themselues hee hath found folly as Iob saies And many the like But returning to our Adioynder how grosse is his ignorance numb 19. that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to pray or to runne to pray as if there were no other running Does not S. Austen speake of the fashions of his time curritur cum infantulis for baptisme no doubt to be had of the Priest not for praiers to the Priest and so for many other causes besides intercession Likewise Denys of Mars-street in his Epistle ad Demophilum not vnfit to be tung into a Iesuites eare to expell the deuill of rebellion that is in them as they hold opinion of bells that they are to be dis-enchaunted Si famulum in Dominum si adolescentem in Seniorem si filium in Patrem dicere videremus c. flagitiosè facere videremur nisi CVRRENTES superioribus epem ferremus etiamsi for sitan illi priores iniuriam acceperint Here is CVRRENTES and yet in no such sense But I will English the whole for the good that may come of it If we should see ones seruant giue his Master bad words the yonger to his elder the sonne to the father we might seeme to bee guiltie of no lesse then villanie if we did not R V N and succour them yea that though the iniurie sprang first from them viz. the superiours R V N saith Denys and succour the Magistrate Yet with this man currere is nothing but inuocare to runne is to pray vnto I might aske him here whom hee went to inuocate which of all the Saints that same aliquem Sanctorum as most fondly they construe Iob. 5. that he could not come to in England when he ranne beyond Sea Besides that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is to the monuments of the Martyrs not to the Martyrs themselues whom we need not to runne vnto if it bee as they say that they heare our prayers but may speake vnto them in euery place and from euerie place as shut vp no where Let them remember their owne principles Non inijcimus Christo compedes We doe not fetter Christ And surely where the Lambe is there are they Apoc. 14. 4. Euang. Ioh. 17. 24. § 11. In his 16. numb for I goe ouer them thus cursorily not curious of a method when he thinkes hee hath greatest aduantage against the Bishop and talkes so like a noddie of a new Grammer what sayes he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sayes he cannot signifie memorias martyrum or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 because that is masculine and these are feminine or neuter I might tell him of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or the like which in effect are all one with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or memoriae But let them stand aside Euripides in Medeâ speaking of the children newly returned from play 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is ex gymnasio ad eum vsum not frō the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 themselues though the one be masculine and the other neuter So here 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 per metonymiam is put for the place to which they belong of what gender soeuer they are that resort to the place See Casaubone of this in Theophrasti characteres And withall heare what the oracle of our parts for Greeke and all good learning Mr. Andrewe Downes whome I name by way of reuerence and singular honour hath taught vs of this matter euen ludibundus sometimes In orat Demosthen contr Androtionem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pro in comitio vbi congregatur 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the same oration pro 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theophrast in Charact. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. in loco vbi praestigiae spectantur I suppose this is the place that giues occasion to Mr. Casaubone whom I lately named to make the like obseruation but remembring the generall I had forgotten the particular I confesse At Athens in the Piraeum not farre from the hauen there was a place called the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 viz. where proofe was made of wares and merchandize Homer Odyss 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in answer to your quotations out of Homer about Thetis and the rest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 there is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for locus saltandi and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for locus certandi Plautus himselfe if his mention offend you not though why should it when you can front vs with your Ouid In iure pro eo quod est 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vbi ius dicitur So in ius vocare in ius ambulare pergere c. that is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In one of the Apocryphaes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pro in loco vbi discuntur docentur parabolae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 apud Aristoph pro 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sexcenta sunt eiusmodi I must bring you home How often in S. Leo or S. Gregorie crastino apud sanctum Petrum for in Basilica S. Petri or the like Your owne Maldonate in 4. Matth. v. 23. hath the like obseruation of the word ecclesiae both from the Hebrews and the Greeks as he saies The persons giue name to the place that they vse Chrysost orat 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to the same purpose 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 It is the Scriptures fashion when a thing is done at such a place or at such a time to call both time and place by the name of the thing So also of the persons Why not And yet 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shall not be cum memorijs but cum Sanctis ipsis For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is the place I say when words of moouing to it or remoouing from it are vsed as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 before But 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 implyes no such thing and may therefore be vnderstood of the Martyrs themselues Do you now see the reason good Sir to varie the construction without any inconstancie in the Bishop as you imagine § 12. Likewise once againe I must tell you to your num 17. the Cardinals argument is most ridiculously miserable from veneration of relliques to intercession of Saints Quo ferrumine tandem ista What sother hath he to make these hold Though we deny relliques to haue been euer venerated in the primitiue Church with your manner of venerations S. Austen indeede sayes veneramur baptismum Epist 145. and Hortatio haec quae vbique iam praedicatur quae vbique veneratur de Agon Christ cap. 11. Baptisme and the word preached are venerable to S. Austen So happily relliques They were venerabiliter habitae respectfully kept or regardfully preserued not worshipped nor adored You may read S. Gregory about this point Epist ad Constant August where he

Ad deum non est opus suffragatore that is To god wee neede no spokes-man He sayes S. Ambrose speakes against them onely that were deuoted to the Sunne and Moone and the Planets But did euer any man make them his suffragators or spokes-men to god And if as numb 18. you suggest to vs it was the Paynims fault to hold that God gouerned the world by vnder officers what is yours lesse that apply that so indeauouring to make way to inuocation of Saints Take thou power ouer fiue cityes thou ouer ten c Shall Paynims faults be onely taxed in Paynims and not in them that reuiue the errors of Paynims which they call Catholique You wish the Bishop to marke those words Ad deum promerendum in S. Ambroses mouth and so in other Fathers nothing to your merit god wot Multanos à deo bona meruisse cognouimus quibus nequaquam digni fuimus saies Theodosius the Emperour among the lawes I trow it is and many the like Ad promerendum deum that is ad conciliandum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is so translated by our old interpreter Heb. 13. By which you may see that to promerite is nothing but to gratify or to please But of merit heretofore and more hereafter § 13. You say no sacrifice might be offered but to God And is not prayer a sacrifice Indeede what richer Is not all almost turned thereinto Into puram precem as Tertullian saies And what salt is in sacrifice without prayer Yet sale salietur you know the place Euery sacrifice shall be salted with salt which you applie to purgatorie wisely no doubt You say that to God all hearts are manifest and he needes no relator Indeede because he onely is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 therefore onely he is fit to be prayed vnto sith praier is of the heart not a calfe of the lips though of them too when occasion serues but the life thereof is from the heart as Salomon saies truly that from the heart proceede the issues of life And I see not but it may be verified euen in this sense too To whome of the Saints then dare you pray thus either as they in the Acts 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. 24. or as the Church in her seruice O God to whome all hearts are open all desires knowne c. But that passes that by this reason S. Ambrose may seeme to take away our Sauiour Christs mediation and all if he be not limited by your interpretation Read but the Fathers Primasius Chrysostome Theodoret and Theophylact vpon Rom. 8. 34. Interpellat pro nobis You shall finde his intercession stands in offering vp the memorie of his death and passion to his father for vs. As a soldier which shewes his skars to his Prince though he say nothing yet he begs fauour Which makes our prayers at the Eucharist so much the more effectuall because therein we renew the memorie of his death and blood-shed so liuely According as himselfe said at the institution who best knew the vertue of his owne Sacrament Doe this as oft as you shall doe it in remembrance of me Our minds therefore beeing possessed with the remembrance of that his death wholly taken vp with that recogitation our prayers haue so much the more easie speeding towards the throne of grace to whome that giues force And can the Saints doe so of theirs Which of them all was crucified for you 1. Cor. 1. 13. yet you compare their intercession with Christs for vs. Of whome some died not at all most of them not violently but none at all to make atonement to God for vs. And because I haue vouched the Fathers exposition vpon Rom. 8. to be as I said I will set downe their authorities in no other words then their owne Theophylact saies Intuens namque Christi corpus pater recordatur dilectionis suae erga genus humanum quâ de causâ scilicet filius olim corpus gessit at que inde ad misericordiam miserationem inflectitur This sense renders Theophylact of interpellat pro nobis The like hath S. Hierome Comm. huius loci Interpellare pro nobis dicitur Christus dum hominem quem suscepit patri pro nobis pignus ostendit offert The very words of S. Hierome hath Primasius in his commentarie and Sedulius in his Remigius hath the sense in somewhat otherwords Interpellat pro nobis patrem saith he non voce sedmiseratione dum quotidie hominem quem assumpsit grauissimum genus mortis quod pro nobis sustinuit vultui paterno offert vt nostri misereatur Haymoes words in his commentarie are the very same with Remigius his now set downe Sauing that Remigius ends in this most sweete close Qui qualemc unque habet tribulationem hanc audiat Pauliexhortationem Into whatsoeuer tribulation any man is sunke let him giue eare to this exhortation of S. Paul Whereas the Papists thinke that some may be buried vnder so deepe oppressions for the conscience of their sinnes as they may not presume to come immediatly to Christ whose intercession saies Euthymius is semper essicax alwaies effectuall for vs in comm huius loci but they must runne circuiting and fetching a compasse about by the Saints Of what iudgement Chrysostome and Theodoret are may be seene by Theophylact before alleadged who sieldome dissent either for opinion or words Of Lyra and of Aquine the like might be promised But Sylvester in Summâ shall determine all though he expressely quote Aquine Part. 2. V. Oratio § secundo Filius orat patrem saies he ostendendo patri humanitatem cum mysterijs eius vt dicit S. Tho. Rom. 8. Let this susfice for this matter § 14. Neither does S. Ambrose say Declaratore non opus est but suffragatore non opus est You peruert him therefore when you say he meant no more then so that the Angels and Saints neede not informe God § 15. I will conclude with that that S. Ambrose forbidding to adore our fellow-seruants for prayer and adoration goe together with him as I told you of S. Cyrill euen now the saine saies we can reserue nothing more to God But you haue found out certaine distinctions and kinds of it which the Saints may partake without Gods iniutie Adoro te but thus farre intra Canonem intra mensuram 1. Cor. 10. 13. Huc vsque venies franges furentes fluctus tuos Dulicè not latricè Gloriam meam dabo but not totam dabo The strumpets diuidatur § 16. Numb 32. and 33. Tu solus innocandus is rather strengthened and fortified by Tu solus rogandus but surely not enseebled Though you cast this as cold water in the face of the other For S. Ambr. say you might rogare the people to pray for another Theodosius Is this comparable with our rogare Deū with our making requests to God Is God the people sued vnto alike Why then do you ioyne such vnsutable

when he said absens corpore prasens spiritu and yet knew not what they did but loue linked him nor might they petition to him in such absence Spectator actuum an Angell may be as you quote out of S. Ambrose and yet not cogitatuum which is prayers cheife seat as hath been often told you § 17. Wee say not that Saints are shut vp in a coffer as you malitiously slaunder vs with Vigilantius Wee graunt they follow the Lambe whethersoeuer hee goes but signanter dictum sequuntur non praeeunt they follow him not goe before him that is they applaude his resolutions of shewing mercy to his Church not importune him alwaies with fresh demaunds only sighing for our saluation in generall The blessed Martyr Fructuosus as you may read in Baronius Tom. 2. Anno. 262. when he was hasting to his martyrdome and now come to the stage of his execution one Felix requested him to haue him in minde belike after death To whom the holy Martyr and Bishop answered clarâ voce audientibus cunctis In mente me habere necesse est ecclesiam Catholicam ab oriente vsque in Occidentem That is I must needes haue in minde the Vniuersall Church of Christ euen from the East to West Limiting thereby his prayers to the Vniuersall estate of Christs Church here vpon earth and no longer owning particular suits after his departure out of the body As he that giues vs the Contents of the second Tome of Baronius in the ende of the booke vnderstands those wordes more peremptorily yet then so Non esse orandum sibi nisi pro Ecclesiâ Catholicâ that he may not pray for any but onely for the Church Whereas what if they should pray for the generall of mankind But I must further follow you § 18. S. Gregories speculum is reiected by your selues Is it like the Saints see as much as God Doe they see him as much as he is to be seene Doe they comprehend him in quantum comprehensitilis est Yet himselfe does so And if by seeing him they see as farre into him as the nature of things is resplendent in him they should doe this and all He meanes the presence and contemplation of God excludes all wretched and woefull ignorance from them and fills them full of happines but after the measure of their capacity And though they could discerne all that is in God yet it is a question whether he would not restraine them from some things purposely speculum voluntarium not naturale Though they affect vs well as wee confesse yet their felicity stands not in the knowledge of our welfare but in submitting themselues and all their desires to the pleasure of God of whome wee read that he shall be all in all in them but not that they shall be all in all in him I meane to see all that is to be seen by him § 19. I haue omitted one thing in the 17. Numb that the Saints offer vp our prayers vnto God Apoc. 5. for so you quote In all which chapter neuerthelesse there is no mention of offering at all The 24 Elders are said to haue harpes that is the instruments of praise and vialls full of sweete odors which the holy Ghost expounds to be the prayers of the Saints But their owne as well as others for ought I know Either their thanksgiuing to God for their wonderfull redemption as v. 12. for thanksgiuing is reckoned a kinde of prayer or because you are so delighted with the Bishops graunt the intercessions which they continually make for vs. As for the 8. chapter of the same booke where you read thus Another Angel came and much incense was giuen him to the ende that he might dare de orationibus Sanctorum offer as you conceiue it of the prayers of the Saints the originall Greeke reads dare orationibus that he might giue of that incense to the prayers of the Saints not offer them himselfe Which Angel S. Primasius expounds to be Christ so Beda so Ausbertus our Rhemists insinuating though not expressing so much S. Austen before them all Hom. 6. in Apocal. and therefore he is called another Angell as eminent aboue the former and he indeede graces our prayers with his merits as it were with sweete odours to make them acceptable to God Or if you will needes take it of the created Angels you see they adde no merits of their owne to countenance our prayers with but borrow incense from the Altar that is Christs merits from him for he is our Altar Hebr. 13. Data sunt ei thymiamata multa as hauing none of his owne Which is enough to ouerthrow the mediation of Angels though there were no more For by a scheme of speach they are made to be casters on of the perfume though it be Christ alone that can dispence his owne merits and the Angels are strangers to them As when it is said in Mulachie that a booke of remembrance was written before the Lord another is made to supply his memorie as it were though his singular sufficiency need no such helpe Lastly if we should read as we no where read that the Angels offered vp our praiers to God or carried them to God I would say that their carrying or offering them to God were nought els but their vnderstanding his gracious will and pleasure for the graunting of our praiers commēced in Christs name beautified with those incense whereof the text speakes and their returne to vs the execution or performance of them on their parts wherein we needed their succour as Tob. 12. Act. 10. and sundrie places in the Psalmes as Mandabit angelis suis de te againe Mittet de coelis cruet me He shall commaund his Angels hee shall send from on high and saue me c. § 20. It is not worth the ripping vp now how the Rhemists haue expressed their dotage vpon this place Apoc. 8. that because it is said vers 3. the prayers of all Saints c. or because the title of Saints they are but slowely belike brought to extend to holy persons liuing vpon the earth therefore they haue deuised mediations of mediators between themselues Saints for Saints and Angels for Angels making intercession in heauen the superiour for the inferior as they tearme it What greater victory could we wish to the Truth or where shall we stay if this be once admitted § 21. NVm 24. Hee comes to another head of the Bishops plea why wee should not pray to Saints because there is no precept for it and all addition to the Law in matter of Gods seruice is Leuiathan a bugge But he insists vpon the place Deuter. 12. alleadged by the Bishop Quod ●●bi praecepero hoc tantùm facies Thou shalt onely doe that which I commaund thee It extends no further saies F. T. then to the things in that Chapter namely to the not offering of such sacrifices as the heathen As if God could be offended onely one

omnibus pastoribus to all ministers past●● De Rom. Pont. l. 1. e. 12. resp ad 5. and moreouer whatsoeuer is said to him ratione off●… pastoralis in regard of his ministerie is common to all Vid● supra in hoe cap. Super terram Mo●●●chia terrestris Adi●yn Num. 22. cap. 5. Theodor. de Constantin Magno in principio historiae Concal Triburiens de Arnulpho anno Dom. ●95 vide edit Venet. tom 4. p. 27. A●apet Epist Praise comprehends all the meanes that Kings haue to reward though they are mary Because it is s●●um humano●… as Aristot●aves ●aves 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Numb 22. ●9 1. Sam 21. 9. Adioyn Num. 22 Expellit dictis non armis saies Lucret. lib. 5. Cap. 3. huiu● a Aqui● part 〈◊〉 summae quest 25. Artic. 3. in resp citans glossam Deus per creationem cui debetur Latria Dominus per po●…am cui Dulia Such are their fooleriet that in one respect now God and the Saint shall bee worshipped alike yea with equall worship with Dulia both Whereas 〈◊〉 Deo nihil mi 〈◊〉 est or els Non esset omne Deu● quod in Deo est contrarie to the Axiome See S. Leo sweetly pronouncing of this point serm 8. in N●t Domini b Contra Iul. lib. 3. cap. 2. c 〈◊〉 Call●st lib. 18. cap. 22. Hist Ecclesiast d Ioh 24. e In Euang. Iohann Tom. 32. f 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 In fine huius g Emong S. Hieromes workes the Com. vpon this Epistle is twofold In one hee extends charitatem to the Sanct● but not fidem ●…ing Qu● enim diligit caput diligat oportet membra not so Qui credit In the other thus he explaines himselfe Quod autem dico●ale est Cre●… quispiam in con●… Deum Non potest credere ●…si prius crediderit de Sanctis 〈◊〉 vera esse que scripta sunt Adam à D●e plasm●…m Eu●m c. Where is conscience now Mr. F. T 〈◊〉 in Ep. ad 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 habutt Phil. 〈…〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…lloru● ex●…tendo Or 〈…〉 pro communone 〈◊〉 as the 〈◊〉 words are explaining these that is d●●ds of mercie to which he was 〈◊〉 to ●…ort him not to beleeue in Saints The Co●… of Cal●… in Al●… ad 〈◊〉 pag. 21● Sur. call● this a ma●…●●ference 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Symb. Nicen. Quanquam idem symbolum vt exprimit●… a Basi●o in Epist ad Antiochen pag. 308. edit Graec. Froben Omnem fidem perspicuè reuocat ad tres personas Trinitatis ne nomin●… quidem Ecclesiā nisi in diuersissimum sensum sati●… di●● post pag. 94 〈◊〉 Iacob is made to Canonize himselfe yet aliue * Our Church seemes to reckon it for Chrysostomes calling one of the praiers in it Chrysostomes praier a Nothing but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And as for Marie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Not to her not to them but to Christ onely b Vnderstand this of the originall Greeke not of Leo Tuscus his translation Consol ad Marcian Hom. 10. in Acta Apost Non tamen inquit 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Our demaund of a decree for prayer to Saints a Can. 1. b Can. 4. c Can. 14. d Can. 12. 13. e Can. 3. lib. 2. Tom. 1. haer 61. quae Apostolicorum est Vide Praefat. Concil Martres memories but Gods seruice Hzres Collyrid Idem ferè Cyprian l. de vanitat idol Nam vulgus in multis Deum natural ter consitetur Item Quae haec summa'delicts est nolle agnoscere quē ignorare non poss●… Yet the Papists so Adioynd Numb 19. The Latine Translator doubted not to translate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hos oret the more wretch he expresting also the Indicatiue moode in the Greeke by an Imparatiue in the Latine so prates the parret and so he writes it how boldly both Doctrine of peace good order out of Mars-street Would this stand with Card. Allens proiect against Q Eliz● Superiours must be holpen against their subiect with all speed euen RVNNING though abused but in tongue onely yea though themselues haue done the wrong 〈◊〉 de Eucha●… Truely he must either make a new Grammer to 〈…〉 his construction or els retract his exposition and Num. 15. But will you further yet beare him confute his own glosse see him tript as I may say in his 〈◊〉 play The word HEE saith the Bishop cannot be referred to relliques For the gender doth not suffer it Why doth he then in the former place make hos to signifie memorias martyrum Doth the gender trowe you suffer it either in the Latine or the Greeke Can he make hi or ho to agree wish memorias 〈◊〉 monumenta c. Ad●…ynd Apud Lucian 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pro loco habendi symposy a S. Austen would haue Baptisme and the word preached to bee had in worship of vs. Which the Papists making slight of diuert their veneration now to the Sacrament of the Altar as if none but that S. Chrysostome hom 8. in epist ad Ephes Angeli venerantur 〈◊〉 Pauli which were too much for an Angel to worship Paul himselfe much more his chaines But Estimation with 〈◊〉 is called worship if F. T. would vnderstand this Cap. 10. Numb 19. of the Adioynd Adloynd Although the Cardinall citeth those words of S. Bisil for the veneration of rellique● Hi martvres c. yet the intercession of Saint is also CLEERFLY prooued thereby and againe the vse and veneration of holy relliques by the helpe protection 〈◊〉 we receiue from 〈◊〉 and Marty● Vocatus straight●…catus ●…catus or aduocatus Deus Christianorum often in the Church historians Does that inferre praying to Christians 〈◊〉 or not rather to the God of Christians only De praep Euan. l. 13. cap. 7. The Bishop chargeth the Cardinall with fraud in p●…ting the Greeke text because the words in the Greeke are somewhat otherwise making no expresse mention of praying to Martyrs but onely at their tombes Whereto I answer that the Latine translator followed the sense of Eusebius gathering the same out of the circumstance of the place For Eusebius shewing the conformitie of Platoes doctrine to our Christian relligion c Numb 29. A dioynd Apud Th●…t Apologet. Can. 35. apud Garanzam in ●…ma Cone Some thinke it should bee 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 per modum supplicationis tetigere manus But in Plut. Otho I find neither and both come to one ende Mark 15. 46. Com. in 21. Ioh. Nemo distrahat Martyres etiam 〈◊〉 sensu Vide August de oper Monach. c. 28. Alij membra Martyrum si tamen Martyrum venditant c. In Greg. Turon lib. 9. c. 6. A sachel of mice-bones moales-teeth beares-clawes c. were found with a Mountibanke in steade of true Relliques Sure in S. Gregories time it was impious and sacrilegious but euen to touch the bodies of Saints dead in the Westerne parts with whom we haue now to deale Intolerabile est atque sacrilegum Vide Epist 30. lib. 3. Regist

blandiatur quasi immunis à contagione delicto esse possit cum sacerdote peccatore communicans ad iniustum atque illicitum praepositi sui Episcopatum consensum suum accommodans cum per Oseam deus doceat omnes omnino ad peccatum constringi qui fuerint profuni iniusti sacerdotis sacrificio cotaminati Apostatare à side Lyr. in Matt. Apostatici saltem apotastici PP Geneb August cp 48. Commonitorio 〈◊〉 Actis Lib 7. loc c. 1. Omnes Sancti vno ore asseverarunt B. Vrginem in peccata conceptā Vnlesse you will admit of the rotten glosse of Pa●… de Palacio in his Comm. vpon S. Matth. cap. 5. that the Si indeede is put vpon the salt degenerating because Salt stands for life and good manners and Popes and Prelates may faile in them but not vpon the Light It is not said if the light be darkned to shew that Prelates cannot faile in truth of Doctrine This he Why then does he call the Pope Sal salium in the same place Is it because his manners cannot be tainted neither Or why does he say that Praelatus satuus mittendus est foras Shall the Pope be deposed for euill life It is not the fashion Or lastly why does he argue from In quo salietur co prooue that the Pope hath no superiour to salt him and therfore concludes that he cannot turne foolish because Christ saies he left nothing without remedie Is not the dunghill his remedie And yet in another place he allowes the Pope to be Pope though his light turne darknes as well as his salt follie Papa tenet cathedram etsi ignirantissimus in 16. Matth. How doe these things hang together The same he hath often in libr●… posterioribus contra Iulian. hac anno primùm ed●… per Claud. Menardum p. 170. 172. 194. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ●…r 12. Os labia ponuntur pro toto homine Espencaei obseruatio in ad Tit est ve●issima Ecclesiast Deut. 13. 1. c. Gal 1. 8. Com. in locum * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 idolatry at lest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 apud Euseb lib. 3. c. 32. Vide Euseb lib. 4. c. 7. c. 21. Clem. Alex. Strom. lib. 7. Tertul. de Praescrip Ammian Marcellin l. 21. Christianā relligionem absolutam simplicem anili superstitione confundens De Constan Hegesippus Tum quidem ecclesiam virginem fuisse idque antonomasticè vt declarat Baro. tom 2. Ann. 120. At deinde faciem eius nec decoram nec spectātibus dignoscibilem sed instar solis densis obtecti nubibus atque errores aperto capite in eam irruisse De praep Euan. lib. 12. 13. Item in Cant. hom 3. Non erit inconueniens sic putare In Ios c. 3. Ego sic arbitror And Audiui quendam ita dicentem This is great certaintie no doubt So Euseb of Potamiaena lib. 6. c. 5. that vndertooke to intercede for Basilides after her death 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Bee it as it may be as not greatly beleeuing it Valeat vt valere potest Coster Enchir. de venerat Sanct. We approach by Christ to worship the Father because by him we are reconciled to the Father Christ a sufficient bringer to the Father because a sufficient teacher of him De Satr Euchar. lib. 4. cap. 〈◊〉 As OVR RIGH PRIEST But the Saints are not so Yet this is Origens appropriating reason here And if the Schoolemen denie that an Angel may minister the cōmunion what more right haue they to of●… our praiers Is it not a priestly action Angels obedient to godly men * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 If 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 bee M●… praied vnto see cap. 〈◊〉 h●… thē here Angels helpe vs though they be not praied vnto But whether it be so or not Origen is direct against praying to them For if we may not vocare how much lesse invocare Matth. 25. 54. Luk. 24. 26. item ibid. 44. Idem habet Chrys hom 8. in Matth. Let them know Creatures worship not creatures Let them know a Per Christum Dom. nostrum vsed to the Saints b A new way of redemption out of the Papists new-fangle intercessions and like that of the Persians beating the robe for the noble mans offence S. Chrysost contrariwise before quoted in 3. ad Coloss saith the honouring of Angells canie from the Deuills enuying of vs and our honuor which in all likelihood he more malignes See also Epiphan quoted in the 9. cap. how often he puts all this idolatrie to Saints and Images vpon the Deuill 1. Earthly Monarchie Lib. 5. de Pont. Rom. See c. 1. h●…s § 42. 2 Supererogation We cannot answer him one of a thousands Iob. And S. Chrys The most righteous of all need mercye in Ep. ad Philip. c. 1. Serm. 4. at large Idem habet D●…s Ep ad Demoph Idem Epiph haeresi A●… discrimen hoc assignans inter Christum alius Sanctos quod apparere vult in funcribus mortuorum Aug. lib. 9. confess c. 13. Neque enim responde bit illa nihil se debere ne convincatur c. praeclarè In the places quoted by the Adioynder 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a fit resemblāce for an oecumenicall Pastor * S. Aug. ad Bonifac l. 3. c. 3. If you say the Apostle and name not which Apostle we vnderstand Paul contra Psych The Adioynders examples T. 8. D. Savile Ser 〈◊〉 1. in S. Apost Paulum saepiculè aliàs 3 Adoration of Christ De Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. 16. Ambros lib. 3. de Sp. Sanct. c. 12. Aug. in Psal 98. In Psal 118. Nunquam deposuit quod semel assumpsit Axiom Theol. Also Cornel. Mus com in Rom. 8. Sacramentum Eucharistiae est Ipsa Gratia which is Christs title 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tit. 2. 11. 4 Adoration of Relliques a As S. Chrysost in vlt. ad Coloss at those words Salutatio mea Pauli manu meâ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. It was like they would find themselues somewhat affected at the sight of Pauls hand Yet not to worship the paper So we at relliques Yet S. Pauls hand-writing not inferiour perhaps to relliques b The same saies Constantius apud Athan. Graecol p. 716. in epist ad Episc Arimini congregatos de doctrinâ verbo which S. Austen saies de codice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Behold the booke and doctrine venerable or worthie to be worshipped What more of the Sacrament or where the like of the species c S. Austen is of another minde quaest in Gen. 23. Corrigendus fuerat adorator Angeli The worshipper of the Angell viz. S. Iohn was to be reformed Therefore he might erre Yea therefore he did erre Act. 14. * S. Greg. idē repetit in Com. Cant. 8. praeter locos alibi citatos Now Reader iudge who comes neerer to Iudaesme the Bishop and the Church of England as F. T. obiects in diuers places or they that reuiue the worshipping of Angels vnder the new