and justice here from his Domestick Servants 'T is pitie that this Argument was not framed before the Church of Israel madeher complaint that Abraham was ignorant of her It would have taught her better divinity 2. 'T is no Demonstration sure God would not hide from Abraham the thing he was to do which concern'd so much his Brother Lot albeit he never revealed afterwards to any of his dearest servants that we read of unless his Prophets any such thing therefore he will reveal to any Saint in Heaven the praiers that are made to them by any person whatsoever By what hath been said I may be bold to infer that the invocation of Saints is very foolish and if so that the Church of Rome is not infallible But our Authour claps in two places of Scripture without any coherence at all Sect. 10 to prove I know not what and albeit they have been answered an 150. times he shall not bate me a single unite Yet doth he bolt them forth without any notice of the answers given We read saith he not only an Angel but every one of the four and twentie Elders to have in their hands golden Censers and Vials full of Odours Rev. 8.3.5.8 which are the prayers of the Saints that is of their Brethren upon Earth Now to take these two places in their Order 1. Revel 8.3 We read another Angel came and stood before the Altar having a golden Censer and many Odours were given to him that he should offer them with the prayers of all Saints upon the Golden Altar which was before the Throne and verse 4. The smoke of the Odours which came of the prayers of the Saints ascended up before God out of the Angels hand Now 1. Let it be granted that to one Angel was this given to offer Odours to come up with the praiers of all Saints How doth it follow that they are to be invocated or that he knows when any particular person praies to him or any other Saint May not he offer up his incense continually as knowing onely this that praiers are made continually 2. If one Angel do this How will it follow that all do it or that all Saints 3. If this be a created Angel is there not a fine round of Praiers 1. They are carried by an Angel or revealed by God to the Saints then he pteseuts them to the Angel the Angel to Christ and Christ to the Father 2. This Angel is said to offer Odours to come up with the praiers of all Saints which surely is to do somwhat which may make them more acceptable to God and will they say that the Virgin Mary is no Saint or that any Created Angel offers somwhat to God which makes her praier more acceptable Well but we denie it to have been a created Angel but say it was the Angel of the Covenant who by the incense of his merits and intercessions offers the praiers of all Saints to God and makes them more acceptable unto him For 't is manifest that here is reference to that which was used to be done in the Levitical administration where the Priest entering the Temple offered Incense on the Golden Altar whilest the people in the Court put up their praiers to God Luk. 1.10 Whence we may understand that phrase that the Angel offered his Odours with the prayers of the Saints Now the Levitical Priest who offered incense was a type of Christ not of the Angels and this is that which the Apostle intimates that Christ the Angel of the Covenant Typified by the Levitical Priest offers up the praiers and sighes of his members groaning under the Tyrannie of wicked men and by the incense of his merits makes them acceptable unto God The second Scripture is Apocal. 5.8 where we are told That twenty foure Elders fell down before the Lamb having every one of them Harps and Golden Vials full of Odours in their hands which are the prayers of the Saints Answ 1. Many interpret these of the Elders of the Church as Beda in verse 10. Here it is more plainly declared that the Beasts and the Elders are the Church redeemed by the blood of Christ and gathered from the Nations also he sheweth in what Heaven they are saying they shall reign upon the Earth And so Irenaeus lib. 4. cap. 33. Ambrose on the Apccalyps and Haimo 2. Vossius will tell you that here is nothing intended but Eucharistical praiers not petitory and the four and twenty Elders onely intimate that the whole Family of Christians in Earth and Heaven did render continuall Doxologies to God for the redemption of the World by his Son There is one Argument of greater moment insisted on and that is taken from the miraculous effects not onely of prayers directed to God at the monuments of the Saints but also directed to the Saints themselves Now to this I answer First By denyal that any approved testimonies can be produced of such miraculous effects wrought by any prayers immediately directed unto Saints the Instances which Mr. C. refers us to shall be answered anon Secondly I say that these pretended miracles may justly be suspected for Satanical delusions and that upon several accounts First From the silence of all undoubted Antiquity of any such Sepulchre wonders in the three first ages albeit the Christians long before had used to keep their assemblies at the Coemiteries and Monuments of their Martyrs When God had ceased to exert his power as in former times that he should thus freshly exert it upon these occasions seems incredible and that which cannot easily be admitted by considering men who are acquainted with the Artifices of the Devil Secondly from the nature of them which rendreth them very ridiculous Basilius Selutensis l. 2. c. 10. Thus of Saint Thecla we are told that they who watch the night before her festivity do at at that time yearly see her driving a fiery Chariot in the aire and removing from Seleucia unto Dalisandus a place which she did principally affect in regard of the commodity and pleasantness of the scituation that when she had demanded of Alypius the Grammarian C. 24. forsaken by the Physitians what he ailed and he had replied upon her in that of Homer 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 thou knowest why should I tell it thee that knowest all things the Martyr being delighted partly with the man and partly with the verse for you must know that after her death she was much affected with Poetry and Oratory C. 21. 24. and continually delighted with such as would be accurate in her praises conveyed a certain round stone into his mouth with the touch whereof he was presently healed Yea the same Basil tells us how having prepared an Oration for her anniversary festivity the day before it should be pronounced he was taken with such an extream pain in his ear C. 27. that the Auditory was like to be quite disappointed But that the Martyr the same night
the Saints in Heaven are prayed to at once as it is in many Collects and peculiarly on all Saints Dayes surely that day is not an holy day to the Guardian Angel who must be fain to trot to all the Saints in Heaven and acquaint them that Serenus Cressie being very sick and weak desires their prayers But when they pray to all Angels then the poor Angel must not travel over all the Heavens onely but the Earth to boot But we will not deal too severely with him let him proceed and thus he doth it History tells us that Magiclans have alwaies the Devil ready to come at their call why then should not Angels be witnesses of our Actions P. 184. and especially our prayers which as the Scrripture saith they offer as Incense to God Now to I eave the Scripture till anon Here we have more work for the Angel for seeing 't is an Angel Apoc. 8.3 that offers up the prayers and incense of all Saints the Guardian Angel must make a journey to him to unless you will have him to be Christ which will do our Author but little service 2. History likewise will tell us that Magicians and Witches can swim over the Sea in a shell can creep through a key-hole Can dip their finger in a little juice and flie away out of the Chimnie he may believe one as soonas the other Lastly the number of Magitians I hope is few in comparison of other men and so there is some difference as to that for one Devil may better afford to be nigh them especially seeing his service is so much promoted thereby As to that dispute of Saint Austine which concludes the Section I say 1. That he was very uncertain in it and one while denies and again suspects that such a thing might be 2. He saith only possit fieri it may be done this way And again 3. Vt quaedam cognoscant that they may know something and how little service this will do him every one may see P. 184. S. 8. 2. He further tells us We are ignorant how great the sphere of Activitie of the glorified Saints may be in respect of this whole visible world perhaps saith he in the words of Spalatensis the whole sensible world may be no more to one of them then its proper body to an humane soul informing it Answ And are not these men think you put to their shifts who are fain to coin such inventions to salve their Hypothesis But tell me is it probable they inform the whole world so as to be present each of them in every part of the world Or Secondly to operate in each part of the world albeit not present there If the first then will they be little short of omnipresent nor will it be proper to God to fill Heaven and Earth and they being in Hell as well as Heaven and also in Purgatorie How do they escape the fire How â—re the Angels said to ascend to Heaven and descend from it Is it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 only How are the souls of the Fathers delivered from their limbus said to depart thence and to be with Christ to be absent from the body and present with the Lord was Lazarus's soul carried to Heaven and afterwards extended Again to what end is this extension seeing they may be happie without it and why should we imagine it seeing here 't is certain they are not extended beyond their bodies If the second let them tell me how or by what Operation a soul that is in Heaven can tell that such a one who praies in his mind only is praying to him And suppose two were praying together and the one prayed to Peter and the other to Paul by what operation can these spirits discern that the one prayed to him and not the other I suppose a Praier to Saint Paul makes a different motion in their Orb of Aether but then how doth St Paul know who it is that praies to him Perhaps different men make different motions but Saint Paul never knew them and how shall he be informed Why the Guardian Angel must go up and tell him 't is S. C. that makes such a motion and haply he will remember it But how will he know when he prayes Hypocritically why truly when an Hypocrite praies it makes a different motion from a sincere one in the spirits Orb of Air. This Platonical stuff is all that I can imgine to salve the Hypotheses Si quid novisti rectius istis candidus imperti Lastly be it that their presence or operations were so vast yet could they not judge of the heart seeing to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is proper to God and consequently must be as zealous for an Hypocrite as a devout Christian Thirdly Sect. 9 we cannot tell saies he what things God may reveal to them Answ Nor he whether he reveals any thing to them at all and therefore in these things he doth most evidently 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. What a ridiculous thing is this to suppose such a Circle that when a man hath made a praier that praier should come to God and be revealed by him to a Saint and that Saint bring it to God again 3. Why must he be thought to reveal this to the Spirits in Heaven and not to the Souls in Purgatorie or if equally why are not they also praied to 4. But it is evident from Scripture that God doth not make any revelations of this kind for 't is said Eccles 9.5 The Dead know nothing that is done in this world neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the Sun And again Abraham is ignorant of us Esay 93.16 5. Bellar. himself confutes this Evasion by 2 Arguments 1. If it were so the Church would not say so boldly to all Saints Orate pro nobis but sometimes would prayto God to reveal our desires to them 2. No good reason can be given why Saints under the Old Testament should not be invoked for God might have revealed their Petitions to them though in Limbo Patrum and sure their praiers might have been as beneficial as the praiers of such as were alive 6. Why upon the same presumption should we not pray to the Saints living for albeit their praiers be not quite so effectual as the praiers of Saints departed yet they are effectual and consequently to neglect this will be to neglect one means conducing to our welfare I say upon the same presumption for this reason why God must be supposed to reveal our Praiers can be no other then our good and would not the reason move him to reveal them to Saints on Earth as well as those in Heaven Mr. Cr. p. 185. Oh but saith our adversarie If God said to Abraham a Pilgrim on Earth shall I hide from Abraham the thing that I do how much more may we imagine tha he hideth not the mightie works of his mercie
dulia due unto your Images if latria then again according to your own principles they were the grossest of Idolaters Secondly The Idolatry of Achaz is thus described that he made high places wherein to burn Incense unto other gods and likewise the Idolatry of Israel This burning Incense is therefore Idolatry Jer. 44.21 23. because the Nature of Idolatry agrees to it which is to give the honour due unto God unto another thing and therefore seeing this was done by burning Incense to the brazen Serpent that also must be Idolatry for to say that 't is not sufficient to make an act idolatrous that it attributes the honour due to God unto another thing unlesse it be an Idol is very false for then the offering of sacrifice to the Image of Christ would not be Idolatry the giving it latria terminated thereon would not be so The Arrians could not have been accused of Idolatry in worshipping our Saviour with divine honours and yet esteeming him to be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Collyridians in worshipping the Virgin Mary the Carpocratians in worshipping the Image of Christ and a 1000. other things 2. This major may be farther confirmed thus to offer sacrifice is Idolatry by the confession of the * Mag sent l. 3. dist 9. Bell. li. de Eccles Triumph c. 12. See Exod. 22. He that effers sacrisice to any but God alone shall be cut off And Act. 7. The Israelites are said to offer sacrifice to the Calf and then presently are called Idolaters Ste 1 Cor. 10. Papists themselves but to offer Incense to an Image or any other thing is to offer sacrifice Thus Tertull. Apol. c. 30. Offero majorem hostiam quam ipse mandavit non grana Thuris so that according to him Incense must be a sacrifice and Gyprian de lapsis speaking of those that presently went to offer Incense They would not stay saith he to be apprehended nor did they leave this to themselves ut sacrificare Idolis inviti viderentur Saint Basil tells us in his Oration on Barlaam the Martyr that they brought him to the Altar and put Incense into his Hands that so by casting it out he might seem to offer sacrifice and this he calls 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thus * Lib. de poenit c. 14. p. 512. Tom. primi 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 male 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Lat. ver pro more daemoniaci libaminis Peter Bishop of Alexandria as we have it in Balsamon tells us that the hands of many were brought unwillingly to offer prophanum sacrificium that is as Balsamon hath it coacti sunt thus immolare yea Saint Austin C. 16. de unico Baptismo having said that Petilian accused Melchiades de Thurificatione of offering Incense he adds that had it been true he might have been excused as being not bound to plead his cause coram homine sacrificijs idolorum inquinato It may be Answered that to offer animate or living sacrifice is Idolatry but as for inanimate sacrifices they may be given to a creature Rep. Now not to mention how arbitrary this distinction is the Fathers frequently teach this offering of inanimate sacrifices to be Idolatry Thus Epiphanius condemns the Collyridians for offering cakes to the blessed Virgin which yet were inanimate sacrifices Ep. au 〈◊〉 num l. 10. Ep. 97. so Pliny tells the Emperour that some worship his Image with Incense and Wine which they that are true Christians cannot be compelled to do albeit it was the Image of him who was himself 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as counting that homage due to God alone Now this refusal Tertullian calls obstinationem non sacrificandi The onely fault saith he with which the Christians stood charged by Pliny in his Epistle to the Emperour yea the Carpocratians were condemned as Hereticks for offering Incense to the Image of Christ among other things l. 1. c. 24. as you may see in Irenaeus Observationem circa cas similiter ut Gentes faciunt they observed the rites of the Gentiles towards them what were they Saint Austine tels us l. de Haer. c. 7. they did it adorando incensumque ponendo Eis thura adolebant ac libahant saith Theodoret l. de Haer. fab And this as he condemned in the Israelites who worshipp'd the brazen Serpent of Idolatry calling them Ophitae worshippers of a Serpent qu. 18. in 4. Reg so here he adds tanquam deos adorabant not that they did it by any other sacrifice of which we have no mention made but that the performing of these ceremonies was an evidence thereof this being worship proper to a Deity Haer. 27. and Epiphanius tells us that with the Images of the Philosophers imagines Jesu collocant they place the Images of Christ and worship them and perform the Rites of the Gentiles to them or Heathenish Rites and then presently he adds Gentium myfleria persiciunt Tom. 2. l. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Cap. nunc autem distinct 2. P. 334 335. what are the Rites of the Gentiles but sacrificium alia Now what he means by sacrifice he tells us in his Epit. viz. to offer Incense yea Bellarmine informes us that Marcellinus sacrificed to Idols and proves it from the Pontifical of Damasus the Epistle of Nicholaus the first to Michael but the Pontifical onely saith he did incendere offerre burn Incense and offer it and Nicholaus that he did grana thuris super prunas imponere put corns of Incense on the coals So then from Scripture and the assertions of Fathers grounded on it we have evinced them to be Idolaters And yet I cannot chuse but requite your story with an other out of Master Chillingworth That one great impediment which among many kept the seduced followers of the faction of Donatus from the Churches Communion was a visible Calumny raised against the Catholicks that they did set some strange thing upon their Altar which as Optatus informes us was a picture which the Donatists knowing how detestable a thing it was to all Christians at that time to set up any Pictures in a Church to worship them as your new fashion is bruted abroad to be done in the Churches of the Catholique Church but what Answer do Saint Austine and Optatus make to this accusation do they confess and maintain it Do they say as you would now it is true we do set Pictures upon our Altars and that not onely for ornament and memory but for worship also but we do well to do so and this ought not to trouble you or fright you from our Communion what other Answer your Church could now make to such an Objection is very hard to imagine And therefore were your Doctrine the same with the Doctrine of the Fathers in this point they must have answered so likewise but they on the contrary not onely deny the crime but abhor