Christs mediation hee held it needfull to request other farre meaner then himselfe to pray for him All this is good saith a good Protestant for to instruct vs to request the helpe of other mens prayers that are liuing with vs but not of Saints who are departed this world Yes say we because the Saints in heauen are more charitable and desirous of Gods honour and of our spirituall good then any friend we haue liuing and therefore more forward to assist vs with their prayers They are also more gracious in the sight of God and thereby better able to obtayne our requests All which may easily be gathered out of S. Paul who saith that charity neuer faileth but is maruailously encreased 1. Cor. 13. ver 8. Ephes 2. ver 19. in that heauenly Country Also that we are not strangers and forraigners to the Saints but their fellow Cittizens and the houshold seruants of God with them yea we are members of the same body wherefore they cannot choose but tender most dearely all our sutes that appertaine vnto the glory of God and our owne saluation They therefore haue finally no other shift to auoide praying to Saints but to say that though all other circumstances doe greatly moue vs thereto yet considering that they cannot heare vs it is labour lost to pray to them To which we reply and that out of S. Paul that the Saints can heare vs and doe perfectly know our prayers made vnto them For the Apostle comparing the knowledge of this life with that of the life to come saith In part wee know and in part wee prophesie but 1. Cor. 13. ver 9. â—0 12. when that shall come which is perfect that shall be made voide which is in part And a little after VVe see now by a glasse in a darke sort but then face to face Whence not I but that Eagle-eyed Doctor S. Augustine De Ciuitat Dei lib. 22. cap. 29. doth deduce that the knowledge of the heauenly Cittizens is without comparison farre more perfect and clearer then euer any mortall mans was of things absent and to come yea that the Prophets who were indued with surpassing and extraordinary light did not reach any thing neare vnto the ordinary knowledge of the Saints in heauen grounding himselfe vpon these expresse wordes of the Apostle We prophesie in part that is imperfectly in this life which shall be perfect in heauen If then saith he the Prophets being mortall men had particular vnderstanding of things farre distant from them and done in other Countries much more doe those immortall soules replenished with the glorious light of heauen perfectly know that which is done on earth though neuer so farre from them thus much of praying to Saints R. ABBOT WE collect saith he as though it were any thing to vs what they collect when the question is what the Apostle teacheth It is true that the Apostle heartily craueth the Romans a Rom. 15. 30. to helpe him in their prayers and hopeth by the helpe b 2. Cor. 1. 11. of the Corinthians prayers to be deliuered from great dangers but what of that Marry saith he hence we reason thus If such a holy man as Paul was stoode in neede of other mens prayers much more neede haue we poore wretches of the prayers of Saints But doth not the wise man see that he here maketh a rodde to whip himselfe for if such a holy man as Paul was standing in neede of other mens prayers yet craued not any prayers of the Saints that were dead but only of the brethren that were aliue doth he not teach vs to doe the like that though we be to begge the helpe of other mens prayers yet we begge the same of the liuing only not of them that are dead Yea but the Saints in heauen saith he are more charitable and desirous of Gods honour and our spirituall good more forward to pray for vs and more gracious in Gods sight to obtaine our requests But why then say I did not St. Paul rather seeke to the Saints in heauen then to men liuing vpon the earth Why did he not say O Abraham Isaac Iacob pray for vs Why did he not desire God that by the merits and intercession of the holy Virgin of Saint Stephen St. Iames St. Ioseph and such others he would haue mercy vpon him Why did he seeke to them that were farre meaner then himselfe when hee might haue gone to those that were superiors to himselfe and more gracious in Gods sight Did not he know that charity is maruelously increased in that heauenly Countrey that they tender dearely all our sutes that they can heare vs and doe perfectly know our praiers made vnto them Why did he omit then rather to craue their prayers then the prayers of the Romans the Corinthiaus and others to whom he wrote M. Bishop cannot here answere any thing to giue satisfaction to any reasonable man yea it plainly appeareth by the Apostles example that all his collections are but vaine and phantasticall speculations Against which we oppose briefly that it is c Iam. 5. 15. the prayer of faith which saueth and true faith hath it seate d Rom. 10. 10. in the heart and God heareth euery mans prayer e 1. Kings 8. 39. as he knoweth his heart and f Ibid. he only knoweth the hearts of all the children of men and therefore the Saints know not our prayers because they know not our hearts And thus the Prophet Esay saith g Esay 63. 16. Abraham knoweth vs not and Israel is ignorant of vs. Wherupon St. Austin concludeth h August de cura pro mort gerenda c. 13. Si tanti Patriarchâ— quid erga populum ex his procreatum ageretur ignoraâ—erunt quibus Deo credentibus populus ipse de illorum stirpe promissus est quomodomortui suorum rebus atque actibus cognoscendis adiuâ—aÌ„disque miscentur Quomodo dicimus cis fuisse consultum qui obierunt antequam venirent mala quae illoruÌ„ obitum consecuta sunt si post mortem sentiunt quaecunque in vita humanae calamitate contingunt Et paulò pòst Ibi sunt ergò spiritus defunctor um vbi non vident quaecunque agâ—tur aut euenâ—â—nt in ista vita hominibus If so worthy Patriarches did not know what was done as touching the people that was descended of them to whom beleeuing God the same people was promised to come of their stocke how haue the dead to doe with the knowledge or helping of the state and doings of theirs and how doe we say that they were prouided for who died before those euils came which ensued after their death if after death they vnderstand what euils befall in the calamity of this life He concludeth The soules of the dead are there where they see not what things are done or happen to men in this life This M. Bishop cannot abide to heare of from St. Austin because he thinketh
and godly Fathers Nay it is a certaine demonstration that they had this knowledge of the God-head because out of those Scriptures wherein their knowledge and faith is set forth vnto vs wee haue testimony and proofe thereof though not so formall and cleare as in some few places of the new Testament is expressed yet such as from whence this point of faith is most certainly and vndoubtedly to be conceiued For when we finde on the one side h Deut. 6. 4. The Lord our God is one Lord and on the other side doe reade i Psal 2. 7. The Lord hath said vnto me Thou art my sonne this day haue I begotten thee and againe k Psal 110. 1. The Lord said vnto my Lord sit thou on my right hand c. and againe l Esa 48. 16. The Lord and his spirit hath sent me m Esa 61. 1. The spirit of the Lord God is vpon me with infinite other places to like effect how can we doubt but that in vnity of the God-head they saw distinctly three persons the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost And thus Gregory resolueth that n Gregor in Ezech. hom 16. Siâ—e hi qui elects in testameÌ„to veteri fuerunt siue hi qui in nouo testamento secuti sunt â—imirum constat quia omnes ex amore Trinitatis accensi sunt c. Ad veram speciem ex Trinitatis sunt cognitione decorats whether the elect in the old Testament or they that followed in the new they were all enkindled with the loue and adorned to true beauty with the knowledge of the holy Trinity As touching the last point which he mentioneth of Christ in vnity of person being both God and Man I answer him by St. Austin that they did so beleeue for o Aug. Epist 157. Cuius hominis eiusdemque Dei saluberrima fide â—tiam illi iusti salui facti sunt qui priusquam in carne vemret crediderunt illâ—m in carne centurum by the most wholsome beleefe saith he of Christ both God and Man euen those iust were saued who beleeued that hee should come in the flesh before that hee did come And in another place hee saith yet more expresly concerning Abraham p Idem cont Pelag. Celest lib. 2. c. 27. Nunquid il lud quod iubet Abraham ponere mark seruum suum sub semore suo iurare per Deum coeli alitèr quisquam rectè intellecturus est nisi Abraham scisse in qua vâ—ntuâ—us esset Deus coeli carnem de illo semore propagari When Abraham bid his seruant put his hand vnder his thigh and sweare by the God of heauen can any man otherwise vnderstand it aright but that Abraham knew that from that thigh should be deriued that flesh wherein the God of heauen should come If Abrah 〈…〉 knew that the God of heauen should come in flesh taken of his flesh hee could not bee ignorant I trow that when hee should bee come hee should bee in the flesh both God and Man To be short the same St. Austin presently after saith q Ibid. cap. 28. Nondum factum sed adhuc futurum eadem tamen ipsa patrum quae nostra est sides vna caÌ„tabal Tues Sacerdos in aternum c. The faith of the Fathers all one with our faith did sing that which then was not done but was as yet to come Thou art a Priest fâ—r euer after the order of Melchisedec Where we cannot doubt but their faith obserued as ours doth from the beginning of the Psalme that it was Dauids Lord to whom this was said and therefore that he was very God and because he could not be a Priest after the order of Melchisedec except he were man therefore that he was truly man and because God notwithstanding speaketh vnto him as only one therefore that in vnity of person he should be both God and man For conclusion M. Bishop granteth that they beleeued some few points of faith in particular and had a certaine confuse and darke conceipt by figures and types of most of the rest but inasmuch as he instanceth against me the most high mysteries of our Christian faith and yet it appeareth that they had the beleefe and knowledge thereof we doe not doubt but that they had likewise knowledge though not so easily as we but with more labour attained vnto yet they had knowledge not only of the most but also of all the rest W. BISHOP §. 3. TOuching these very points whereof M. Abbot would haue them wholly ignorant if his bare word without any manner of proofe were so powerfull I affirme that they held the most of them which I will not stand here to proue at large for that were Protestant-like to runne from one question to another without order but I will only giue a touch to euery one of his instances referâ—ing the Reader for more full satisfaction to the proper place of those head controuersies First no Catholike euer taught any man to worship Idols let that then passe as a Protestant slander but that Images are to be placed in Churches the examples recorded in the old Testament of hauing them both in their Tabernacle and in the Exod. 25. v. 18. Temple of Salomon and this sentence of the Psalmist 3. Reg 6. v. 23. Adore his foote-stole and many such like places and Psalm 98. v. 5. resemblances doe argue very strongly that Images are to be worshipped Secondly inuocation of Angels is most plainly practised by the holy Patriarke Iacob the Father of all Israelites God c. and the Angell that hath Genes 48. v. 16. deliuered me from all euill blesse these children The example of so religious a person is our sufficient warrant to pray to Angels and Saints for Saints in heauen are equall Luc. 22. to Angels as our Sauiour himselfe assureth vs and Iob was counsailed to pray and call for aide vnto some of the Saints Ad aliquem Sanctorum conuerte Thirdly Iob 5. vers 1. they of the old Testament knew good workes to merit life euerlasting and had by Gods grace free-will to doe them which I adde because by the same sentences I will proue both togither God said vnto Cain If thou doe Genes 4. v. 7. well shalt thou not receiue if euill thy sinne will be at the dore but the appetite or pange of it shall be vnder thee and thou shalt haue dominion ouer it see both power giuen to the wicked to doe well if they will and recompence promised therefore Againe in the law Moyses hauing propounded to the Israelites Gods Commandements exhorting them thereunto saith Consider Deut. 30. v. 15. that I set before you life and good and contrariwise death and euill if you loue God and will walke in his Commandemens life or else death c. choose therefore life c. Must they not be very dull Vers 19. that hence cannot gather the keeping of Gods
all that Christ taught and all that he commanded his Apostles to deliuer to all nations R. ABBOT THe wordes of mine answere are As they worshipped God so sauing ceremoniall obseruations we also worship him Consider now I pray thee gentle Reader from what braine M. Bishops illation proceedeth Then should we sacrifice to him Beefs Muttons Calues Lambs and our sacrificers should be of Aarons issue and order and we all circumcised Why M. Bishop are not all these in the number of ceremoniall obseruations Forsooth no I omit all their ceremonies saith he because M. Abbot excepteth them But did not M. Abbot in excepting all their ceremonies except circumcision and sacrifices and the whole Priest-hood of the law What is M. Bishop ignorant that circumcision and sacrifices and the whole rites and rules of the Leuiticall Priest-hood doe all belong to the ceremoniall law and that our Sauiour Christ in abrogating the ceremoniall law is vnderstood to haue abolished all these Is he to be set to schoole againe to learne what is meant by the name of ceremonies It were a shame to send a Doctor of Diuinity to his Catechisme for his credits sake I will referre him to a greater booke of Thomas Aquinas where he saith that a Tho. Aquin. sum 12. q. 101. art 4. Per tot In veteri lege singula praedicta Sacrificia Sacramenta sacra obseruantiae ceremoniae vocantur in the old law Sacrifices Sacraments sacred vtensils and implements and obseruances of singular or speciall conuersation are all called ceremonies and this I would haue him learne against the next time His next exception is against that I say As they prayed so and in the same wordes we also pray Then saith he they doe sometimes pray vnto God to remember Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to take mercy on them as Moses did Which in part we acknowledge and professe to doe to pray God in like manner as Moses did to remember Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to take mercy vpon the seede of Abraham but not to take mercy vpon vs. God bound himselfe to the seede of Abraham b Genes 17. 7. by an euerlasting couenant to be their God by reason whereof we beleeue that in this forlorne estate wherein they now be God still standeth entirely respectiue to the preseruation of that nation and though c Rom. 11. 28. as touching the Gospell they be enimies for our sakes yet as touching the election as the Apostle faith namely whereby God of old elected them to be his people they are beloued for their Fathers sakes Their present infidelity then is an interruption only not any finall reiection of them and the time will come when the effect of that loue will appeare by restoring that nation againe to the society and fellowship of the Church of Christ What hindereth then but as they are beloued for their Fathers sakes so we may pray God to remember their Fathers Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and for their sakes to shew his loue and to returne vnto them in mercy and compassion d 2. Cor. 3. 15 16. To take away the veile that is laid before their hearts that they may bee turned to the Lord Which notwithstanding we say not for our selues because God hath made no promise to vs properly and personally in Abraham but only e Genes 22. 18. 〈…〉 ls 3. 25. in the seede of Abraham f Gal. 3. 16. which is Iesus Christ by whom and in whom it is and not by Abraham himselfe that we are become the children of Abraham As for the text which he alleageth to proue that it was the expresse order and commandement of the Patriarchs that their posterity should so pray hee sheweth his ignorance in the abusing of it because no otherwise did Iacob say g Genes 48. 16. Vulg. Innocetur super cos nomen meam Let my name be named vpon them and the name of my Fathers Abraham and Isaac then as seuen women in a time of desolation are brought in by the Prophet saying to one man h Esa 4 1. Vulg. Innocetur nomen tuum super nos Let thy name be named vpon vs these women hereby crauing that they might be called the wines of such a man and the Patriarch desiring that Ephraim and Manasses should be seuerally reckoned for Tribes of the seed of Abraham and Israel as if they had beene immediately descended from him euen as Iacob himselfe a litle before expresseth his owne meaning saying i Genes 48. 5. Thy two sonnes Manasses and Ephraim which are borne vnto thee in the land of Aegypt before I came to thee into the land of Aegypt shall be mine as Ruben and Simeon are mine But now vpon this that hath beene said that they prayed God for those Fathers sakes to be mercifull to them M. Bishop being resolutely impudent to make all good that is starke naught groundeth a defence of a diuellish and horrible blasphemy which the Church of Rome had brought of old into the seruice of the Church Concerning Thomas Becket Archbishop of Canterbury in the time of King Henry the second slaine then without due and lawfull proceeding but yet dying no other but an insolent rebell and traitour to his Prince they haue beene wont to pray thus k Breuiar in trāslat S. Thomae Cantuar. Jesu Christe per Thomae vulnera Quae nos ligant relaxa scelera Tu per Thomae sanguinem quem pro te impendit Fac nos Christe scandere quò Thomas ascedit O Iesus Christ by Thomas his wound Release the sinnes wherewith we are bound By the bloud of Thomas which for thee he did spend Make vs O Christ to climbe whither Thomas did ascend In which prayers wee see how by the wounds and bloud of this holy Saint of theirs they aske at Gods hands remission of sinnes and euerlasting life which Christian faith abhorreth to aske by any other but only the bloud of Iesus Christ Yea so harshly it soundeth in Christian eares and so contrary is it to the common sense of Christian profession as that the Rabbines of the Roman Synagogue were content euen for very shame to blot it out of their Portesse thereby acknowledging that it was by apostasie and errour that it came first in But M. Bishop a man more wise and learned or rather a man of harder fore-head then they were taketh vpon him to assure vs that there was nothing amisse in that praier and that it might very conueniently and lawfully haue beene retayned still And why Marry because of old time they prayed thus Remember Abraham and Isaac and Iacob and againe Lord remember Dauid and all his mildnesse For saith he if they did then desire God to remember the excellent vertues of his seruants and for their sakes to shew mercy vpon others why may not we doe the same now why may we not as well beseech God to remember the constant fortitude
himselfe notable in his art he telleth his Reader that that vow was not much vnlike to the vow of religious persons and biddeth him thereof to see the sixt Chapter of the booke of Numbers as if looking there he should finde it so to be Now for their pupils and scholers who must yeeld to enlarge their throats to swallow all their Masters googeons hee knew well enough that they would neuer nay they dare not looke the Chapter and as for others though they finde him a lyar what cares he for that He that looketh into that Chapter or any other what shall he finde that may giue him cause to thinke the vow of the Nazarites like to the vow of religious persons The vow of religious persons is a vow of perpetual pouerty chastity and obedience and what is there in the vow of the Nazarites that carryeth any semblance of these things h Num. 6. 2. 3. c. He was to forbeare wine and strong drinke and all things of the grape to suffer no razour to come vpon his head but to let the locks of his haire to grow to come at no dead body not his father his mother his brother or sister and by these ceremonies to separate himselfe to the Lord but of giuing away all his goods to liue in pouerty of forbearing marriage or the company of a wife of liuing vnder obedience to any mans rules or lawes there is nothing I say nothing to bee found Now who can thinke it safe to trust M. Bishop that is not ashamed thus wilfully to falsifie that which is so plainly reported by the holy Ghost As for Saint Pauls taking vpon him that vow of a Nazarite which Saint Luke recordeth it was but a yeelding for the time to the infirmity of the Iewes becomming i 1. Cor. 9. 20. 21 to the Iewes a Iew that he might winne the Iewes as he professeth otherwhere For although in the death and resurrection of Iesus Christ the ceremoniall law of Moses were at an end and now to be abolished yet there was a time to be yeelded for instruction and teaching of the Iewes thereby to withdraw them from the opinion of those things which so long and by so great authority euen from God himselfe both they and their fathers had obserued that the sodaine relinquishing thereof might be no scandall or offence vnto them St. Austin saith notably hereof that k Aug. Epist 19. Cum venisset fides qua priùs illis obseruationibus praenunciata post morte resurrectione Domini reuelata est amiserant tanquam vitam officij sui veruntamen sicut defuncta corpora necessarioruÌ„ officijs deducendae â—â—ant quodammodo ad sepuituram nec simulatè sed religiosâ— non autem deserenda continuò vel inimicorum obtrectationibus tanquam canum morsibus proijcienda when the faith fore-shewed by those ceremonies was after the death and resurrection of Christ reueiled they lost as it were the life of their office or vse but yet as the dead bodies of friends they were by the office or seruice of friends religiously to be brought to their buriall and not to be presently forsaken or cast to the slanders of enemies as to the bitings or gnawings of dogs But though l Ibid. Illo teÌ„pore quo primùm gratia fidei reuelata est hoc noÌ„ crat pernicioâ—â— progressu verò temporis perniciosum erat nisi obseruationes illae ab omnibus Christ aniâ— desererentur it were not hurtfull as he there saith againe that these ceremonies at the first preaching of the faith were for a while obserued yet in processe of time it had beene pernicious that they should not haue beene forsaken of all Christians yea it should haue been impious to retaine them And hath not M. Bishop then for proofe of their vowes made good choise of an example which it were pernicious and impious to retaine in the Church of Christ But hee found there the name of vow and that he thought was enough to soppe them who he knew would take any thing that he should tell them From vowes he â—larteth to praier for the dead and saith that it is not true that in St. Paul there is nothing for prayer for the dead And what is there I pray for it He teacheth saith he that some of the faithfull who haue m 1. Cor. 3. 13. built vpon the right foundation hay stubble and such like trash shall notwithstanding at the day of the Lord be saued yet so as through fire But what is this to prayer for the dead Marry the ancient Doctors doe take this to be the fire of Purgatory and if many while the drosse of their works is purged do lie in fire it will easily follow that euery good soule will pray for the release of them Thus he telleth vs what some Doctors doe thinke and what he himselfe gathereth thereof but otherwise of St. Paul himselfe he can tell vs nothing It appeareth not by St. Paul himselfe that that fire is Purgatory fire it appeareth not by St. Paul himselfe that we are to pray for the dead therfore in all this M. Bishop hath said nothing because it is not the question what some haue gathered of an obscure sentence of St. Paul but what St. Paul himselfe hath deliuered and that in the Epistle to the Romans where Theodoret witnesseth as I haue said all doctrines of faith to be contained But he dealeth here after the very manner of Heretikes who are wont to make choise of some figuratiue and allegoricall and darke speeches of Scripture which they may construe at their owne pleasure and alleage them according to their owne construction to proue their falshoods and heresies by them when as notwithstanding the plaine and euident testimonies of Scripture doe make against them St. Paul speaketh of purpose to giue instruction of our carriage towards the dead where of Purgatory or praier for the dead he teacheth nothing n 1. Thess 4. 13. I would not brâ—thren haue you ignorant saith he concerning them which are asleepe that yee sorrow not as other which haue no hope for if we beleeue that Iesus is dead and is risen euen so them which sleep in Iesus wil God bring with him And then shewing in what sort God will bring them with Iesus he concludeth Wherefore comfort your selues one another with these words Is it possible that the Apostle should here omit to giue charge of praying for the dead if it were religion to pray for them Nay he telleth vs of the faithfull departed that they sleepe in Iesus and of them that sleepe in Iesus o Apoc. 14. 13. the spirit saith Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord which sleepe in Iesus for they rest from their labours and if they be blessed and at rest then they are not labouring in the restlesse fire of Purgatory and therefore neede none of our prayers for release Albeit if vve grant M. Bishop his Purgatory yet
who for defence of their Image-making when it was condemned obiected i Tertull. de Idololat Cur ergò Moses in eremo simulaâ—hruÌ„ Serpentis ex aere fecit scorsum figurae qua dispositioni alicui arcanae praestruebantur non ad erogationem legis sed ad exemplarium causae suae c. Benè quòd idem Deus lege vetuit similitudinem fieri extraordinario praecepto serpentis similitudmem indixit Si eundem Deum obseruas habes legem eius Ne feceris similitudinem Si praeceptum factae postca similitudinis respicis tu imitare Moysen Ne facias aduersus legem simulachrum aliquâ—d nisi tibi Deâ—tâ— iâ—sserit Why then did Moses in the wildernesse make the similitude of a brasen Serpent He presumeth that which M. Bishop vrgeth that all things befell to that people by way of figure but saith we are to set figures here aside which were appointed for some secret signification not for the prescribing of a law but for sampling the cause of the appointing of them It is well saith he that the same God did by his law forbid any image or similitude to be made and by an extraordinary charge appointed the similitude of the Serpent If thou regard the same God thou hast his law Thou shalt not make the likenesse of any thing If thou looke to the Commandement of making a similitude afterwards doe thou imitate Moyses make no image against the law vnlesse God himselfe command thee Euen so say wee to M. Bishop that the making of the Cherubins by an extraordinary commandement of God is no warrant for vs to breake the law of God We haue the law of God and that we are to follow but what God commanded for speciall vse and signification we must not draw to an example of imitation But to goe beyond the example and from the making of an image for typicall vse and construction to proceede to giue to images spirituall worship and deuotion this is a sinne inexcusable and hath no colour of defence by any example of the word of God Now as this so that which he saith for Relikes also deserueth no other but contempt The Israelites by the speciall commandement of God kept k â—xod 16. 33. a pot full of Manna that their posterity might see with what bread the Lord had fed them By the like commandement of God l Numb 17. 10. the rodde of Aaron which had blossomed and brought forth fruit was laid vp and kept for a token to the rebellious that they might not dare to murmure against Aaron and his Sonnes concerning the Priesthood By Gods commandement also m Exod. 40. 20. the tables of the Testament were put into the Arke there to be kept both that and all the rest being said to haue beene done n Vers 21. as the Lord had commanded Moses Now here I say to M. Bishop againe let him in this behalfe also imitate Moses and if God haue giuen any commandement concerning Relikes let him by vertue therof challenge deuotion to them But if God haue commanded nothing thereof why doth hee bring the example of things expresly commanded of God for warrant of those things that haue beene superstitiously deuised by men But it is worthy here to be questioned by what Chimicall tricke it is that the golden pot of Manna and Aarons rodde and the tables of the Testament are turned into Relikes and giuen vs for examples of Popish Relikes Popish Relikes are the bodies of Saints or peeces of their bodies or such things as they haue worne or haue beene applied vnto them as their coates their shirts their shoes the chaines and fetters wherwith they haue been bound the instruments of the tortures that haue beene done to them These they lay vp and keepe as matters of great deuotion and holinesse in their solemne Processions they carry them gloriously about and make the people doe great reuerence to them they shew them that the people may behold them touch them kisse them worship them pray before them offer to them they teach them to hang them and weare them about their necks with great confidence thereby towards God and the Saints whose Relikes they are to finde helpe at their hands they vow long Pilgrimages to goe to the places where these Relikes are in beleefe that God will heare their prayers rather there then otherwhere they promise to them that performe these deuotions to them large Indulgences and Pardons to deliuer their soules from Purgatory in the taking of othes they lay their hands vpon them as making the Saints their witnesses that they say truth To these Relikes they require such honors to be done vnder pretense that o Concil Trident c. de Reliq Sanct. Sanctorum Martyrâ—â— aliorum cum Christo viueÌ„lium sancta corpora quae viua meÌ„bra fuerunt Christi templa Spir. sancti ab ipso ad aeternam vitam suscitanda glorificanda à fidelibus veneranda esse c. the bodies of the Saints were the liuing members of Christ and the temples of the holy Ghost by him to be raised vp againe and glorified vnto eternall life Now I maruell how M. Bishop will apply these things to the golden pot of Manna to Aarons rodde and to the tables of the Testament Were these the members of Christ or the temples of the holy Ghost or had they any such application to the bodies of any Saints as to receiue holines from them Might hee not as well tell vs that the Arke was a Relike and the Tabernacle and the Temple and all the vtensils and implements thereof And where I maruell are the deuotions that were done to those Relikes of his Did the people bow downe to them did they worship them or pray to them or practise those abhominable idolatries to them which they doe to their Relikes What an impudent man is he to mock the vnskilfull Reader with such impertinent allegations nothing at all concerning those things for which hee bringeth them As for that which they alleage for a reason of those abhominations which they practise about their Relikes or as they terme it of the honour which they doe vnto them namely for that they haue beene the members of Christ and temples of the holy Ghost the vse of that reason was conceiued of old to serue for the burying of them in the earth not for the raking of them out of the earth to doe worship and deuotion to them And therefore St. Austin affirming that p August de Ciuitat Dei Lib. 1. Cap. 13. Nec idcòtamen contemnen da sunt abijcienda corpora defunctorâ— maximeque iustoâ—uÌ„ atque fidelium quibuâ— tanquam organis vasis ad omnia bona opera vsus est sanctuâ— spiritus c. Vnde antiquoruÌ„ iustorum funera officiâ—sa pictate curata sunt exequiae celebratâ— sepultura prouisa ipsique dum viueâ— ent de sepâ—liendis vel etiâ— transfereÌ„dis suis corporibus filijs
mandauerunt c. the bodies of the iust and faithfull which the holy Ghost hath vsed for instruments and vessels to all good workes are not to be despised and cast away inferreth that therefore the funerals of the iust of old were with all officious piety regarded their exequies celebrated and their buriall prouided for and they themselues whilest they liued gaue charge to their children for the burying of them or else for transferring them from the place where they were to be buried otherwhere He alleageth examples that Tobie in burying the dead is commended to haue pleased God that our Sauiour Christ commended the good worke of the religious woman which powred the pretious ointment vpon his body as of purpose for his buriall that they are laudably mentioned in the Gospell who tooke the body of Christ from the Crosse and vsed care to haue it diligently and honorably buried And thus Origen professing q Origen coÌ„t Cels lib. 8. Solas rationales animas honorare nouimus earli instrumenta solenni honore sepulturae dignamur Meretur enim rationalis animae domicilium non temerè proijci sicut brutorum cadauera praesertim quod fuit anima benè ac sanctè instrumento suâ— in certaâ—inibus vsae receptâ—culum to honour only the soules endued with reason sheweth what this honour is Their instruments that is their bodies we vouchsafe the solemne honour of buriall For the habitation of the reasonable soule is of more worth then carelesly to be cast away like the carkasses of brute beasts specially that which hath beene the receptacle of a soule that hath in spirituall fights and combates well and holily vsed the body Now if it be the honour that is to be done to the bodies of the Saints to bury them in the ground then is it a barbarous dishonour that is done to them in Popery vnder the name of piety to pull them out of their graues and to rent them in peeces and carry one peece this way and another another way the skull to one place the toe or finger to another one tooth hither and another thither as amongst them hath beene accustomed to be done Wherein how farre they haue departed from the ancient Church of Rome appeareth by Gregory Bishop of Rome who for his time affirmeth that r Gregor lib. 3. Epist 30. In Romanis totius OccideÌ„tis partibus omnino intolerabile est atque sacrilegum si sactorum corpora tagere quisquam fortassè praesumpserit Quod sl praesumpserit certum est quia bâ—c temeritas impunita nullo mâ—do remanebit in the Roman Church and whole Westerne parts it was a thing altogether intollerable and a matter of sacriledge to presume to touch the bodies of the Saints and if any man doe presume so to doe saith he certaine it is that his rashnesse shall by no meanes remaine vnpunished And hauing shewed diuers examples of them who aduenturing too neare to the stirâ—ing or touching of the bodies of some holy persons were thereupon greatly frighted or by death miscarried he concludeth Å¿ Ibid. Quis tam temerarius possit existere vt hâ—c sciens â—orum corpora non dico tangere sed vel aliquatenùs praesumat inspicere Who then knowing these things can be so rash as that he will presume I will not say to touch the bodies of such but in any sort to looke vpon them How is the world now changed in the Church of Rome that they dare not only looke vpon such buryed relikes but pull them out of their graues touch them kisse them carry them about as hath beene before said and will M. Bishop still notwithstanding be so impudent as to say that the religion of the church of Rome is now the same that of old it was For conclusion of this passage he alleageth t Heb. 11. 21. that Iacob adored the toppe of Iosephs rodde which was a signe of his power which he saith giueth all iudicious men to vnderstand that the Images of Saints for their holy representation ought to be respected and worshipped But what a spiâ—e hath the Apostle put him to thus to seeke for Images vpon the toppe of Iosephs rodde What meant he to be so sparing in the behalfe of the Roman Church as that hee would not name so much as one holy man to whom an Image had beene set vp to be worshipped in his name But the Apostle knew no such Marry M. Bâ—shop is able by a Romish art to supply that want by fetching an image out of the toppe of Iosephs rodde He had heard of Garnets image in the straw and hee thought the toppe of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 rodde or staffe to bee much more capable of an image But for the bringing of this about hee betaketh himselfe to a translation which is manifestly false the Greeke text not saying that he worshipped the toppe of his rodde but â— he worshipped vpon the toppe of his rodde that is as we translate it hee worshipped God leaning vpon the end or toppe of his staffe This Thomas Aquinas acknowledgeth and telleth vs the whole reason hereof u Tho. Aquin. in Heb. 11. sect 5. Super fastigium vt habetur in Graeco c. Ipse erat senex ideò portabat virgam vel recepit sceptrum Joseph donec iâ—rasset antequam redderet ei adorauit non ipsam virgam nec Joseph vt quidam malè putaueruÌ„t sed ipsum Deum innixus ad cacumen vel super fastigium virgae cius Iacob was an old man saith he and therefore carried a rodde or staffe or else he tooke the scepter of Ioseph vntill Ioseph had sworne namely that he would bury his father in Canaan according to his desire and before he restored it to him he worshipped not the rodde nor Ioseph as some haue thought amisse but God himselfe leaning at the toppe or vpon the toppe of his rodde We neede no more this is enough to dash M. Bishop out of comfort and to bereaue him of all hope to finde any succour for his Images in this place But if any man desire further satisfaction let him see this place handled at large in the question of Images the sixteenth section W. BISHOP §. 5. WIth as great facility and no lesse perspicuity we doe collect out of S. Paul that the Saints in heauen are to be prayed vnto for he doth hartily craue the Rom. 15. ver 30. Romans to helpe him in their prayers and hopeth by the helpe of the Corinthians prayers to be deliuered 2. Cor. 1. ver 11. from great dangers Whence we reason thus If such a holy man as S. Paul was stood in neede of other mens prayers much more neede haue we poore wretches of the prayers of Saints S. Paul was not ignorant how ready God is to heare vs nor of the only mediation of Christ Iesus and yet as high as he was in Gods fauour and as well informed of the office of