see no reason to refuse it But if you will learne reason when it is shewed you maie see more then you do now Are your ancetors of the primitiue Church greater then Saint Paull Is there anie testimonié of man greater then the witnes of an Angell from heauen yet if Saint Paull him selfe or an Angell from heauen should preach an other Gospell then Saint Paull had preached and is contained in the holi scriptures that false Gospell were to be resused and the author thereof to be accursed Now that Saint Paull preached nothing beside the doctrine conteined in the scriptures he is a sufficient witnes himselfe Act. 26. 22. But why see you no reason to refuse such traditions so obtruded Forsooth because the same men that deliuered vnto you the scriptures and saide this is Gods writen worde and saide of other forged scriptures this is not Gods written worde the same deliuered to you these doctrines saying this is Gods wordes vnwritten So that by this reason you haue no other foundation of your faith but the testimonie of men who as they may speake the truth in one matter so they may lie or be deceiued in an other As euen by your owne reason the Grecians the Armenians the Georgians the Moscouites and all other sectaries are bound to beleeue all that to be the word of God vnwritten which the same men affirme to be such that deliuered the canonicall scriptures to them and said it was the word of God written But in steade of this vnsure and sandie ground the children of God haue a more firme rocke to builde their faith vpon namelie the spirit of trueth sealing in their heartes the testimonie of men concerning the truth of Gods worde written In which the same spirit also testifieth of the sufficiencie of the word written vnto saluation in such sort as if we receiue the word written for truth we must needs condemne for false what word soeuer speaketh either the contrarie or addeth any thing as wanting and not set forth in the word written And this I say not as though the primitiue Church or the godlie fathers of the same haue brought in any thing vnder the name of tradition of Christ or his Apostles as necessarie to saluation although some of them in matters of rites ceremonies haue alledged tradition beside the scriptures yet in such things as are now for the most part abolished either because they were not deliuered by the Apostles as it was pretended or els because such matters are mutable and not perpetuall though they were receiued from the Apostles But let vs examine the examples that you ioyne to your reason First Saint Augustine and Origen doe teach vs that baptizing of infantes is to be practized in the Church onelie by tradition of the Apostles For which you quote August lib. 10. ad gen lit cap. 23. Origen in cap. 6. Epist. ad Rom. What Saint Augustine saieth and how the baptisme of infantes is practized by authoritie of the scripture I haue shewed before sect 11. As for Origen in the place quoted hath neuer a word to any such matter But of these impudent allegations we haue had too many examples alreadie The second example is Saint Hierome and Epiphanius tell vs that the faste of the lent and oher the like is a tradition of the Apostles Hierom. Epist. 54. ad Marcella Epiphann Haer. 7. 5. Hieromes wordes are these against the Montanistes Nos vnam quadragesimam secundùm traditionem Apostolorum toto anno tempore nobis congruo ieiunamus 〈◊〉 tres in anno faciunt quadragesimas quasi tres passi sunt saluatores non quòd per totum annum excepta pentecoste ieiunare non liceat sed quòd aliud sit necessitate aliud voluntate munus offerre We fast one lent or fourtie daies according to the tradition of the Apostles in the wholl yeare in a time conuenient for vs they make three lentes or fourtie daies fast in a yeare as though three sauiours had sussered not but that it is lawfull all the yeare long except in the pentecostor fiftie daies but that it is one thing to offer a gift of necessitie an other thing to doe it of free will Here Hierome saith that one fourtie daies fast is of the tradition of the Apostles but other writers say otherwise For Damasus in his Pontificall saieth that Telesphorus Bishope of Roome did institute this seauen weekes faste before Easter Telesphorus him-selfe in his decretall Epistle saith that he and his fellow Bishoppes gathered in a Councell at Roome did ordeine this fourtie daies faste onelie for clerkes and contendeth in manie wordes that there must be a difference betweene clerkes and laie men as well in faste as in other thinges If you saie these authorities are counterfet 〈◊〉 as I thin 〈◊〉 you may truelie though you will not willinglie yet what saie you to 〈◊〉 an elder witnes then Hierome whoe testifieth out of yeares that two hundered 〈◊〉 before his time there was great controuersie betweene the next successours of the Apostles concerning the daie of the celebration of Easter and that the coutrouersie was not onelie of the daie but also of the fast some fasting one daie some two dates some more So that of the Apostles tradition we haue no certaintie in any monument of antiquitie Againe it is to be noted that Hierome holdeth it vnlawfull to faste betweene Easter and Whitesontyde which he calleth Peatecoste by the same tradition of the Apostles which yet in the Popish Church is not obserued at this daie for beside the fridaie fast they haue also the gang weeke fast in that time which in Saint Hieromes age was accounted vnlawfull to fast in Your other witnes Epiphanius speaketh not of your fourtie daies lent but of a shorter and yet a streighter For these are his wordes Aquo verò non assensum est in omnibus orbis terrarum regionibus quòd quarta prosabbato ieiunium est in Ecclesia ordinatum Siverò etiam oportet constitutionem Apostolorum proferre quomodo illic decreuerunt quarta prosabbato ieiunium per omnia excepta pentecoste de sex dieb paschatis quomodo praecipiunt nihil omnino accipere quà m panem salem aquam qualemque diem agere quomodo dimittere in illucescentem dominicam manifestum est And of whome is it not agreed in all regions of the world that one wednesdaie and fridaie fast is ordeined in the Church But if we must also bring forth the constitution of the Apostles how they haue there decreed one the wednesdaie and fridaie a fast thoroughout all except pentecost and of the six daies of Easter how they commaund to take nothing at all but bread and salte and water and how to spend the daie and how to giue ouer against the dawning of the Lords daie it is manifest Here he speaketh but ofsixe daies before Easter daie and of an other manner of diet then the Popish Church holdeth to be necessarie
testament Sozomenus in the place by you cited after he hath commended the Philosophie or contemplatiue life of the solitarie men in those daies hath these wordes of this excellent Philosophie was the beginner as some saie Elias the Prophet and Iohn Baptist so that it is not so absolute as you sett it downe but as some saie and it is of a Philosophicall studie and life in which if comparison be made with Popish Monkes for one thing which they haue like they haue three things vnlike or contrarie to the profession and practise of those auncient Monachi which might haue some resemblance with the manner of Elias life in some thinges and were more agree able to the example of the sonnes of the Prophets which were students in diuinitie as those olde Monks of the primitiue Church readie to serue in the place of teachers whensoeuer they were called That antiquity onely should let the Prophets to be examples of monasticall life it is your owne vaine collection and as vaine is your comparison of Adam to be a paterne of marted men Abel of sheepherdes Caine of husband men c. For M. Charke asketh what you are able to bring out of the word of God why Elias should after more then two thousand yeares be brough in for a patrone of friers which for so manie yeares could neuer be espied in the Church either of the Iewes or of the Christians As for the estate of maried men sheepherds husbandmen citizens Tentdwellers musitians smithes c. is either necessarie or otherwise commendable then by the examples of those auncients of which some in respect of their antiquitie are not to be followed at all as Cain and the rest of his cursed line who yet were inuenters of profitable artes by the gift of God and not by the worthines of the persons As for the slate of the Munkes and friers such as we striue about is neither necessarie nor profitable to the Church but a great infection and poison of the same Nowe whether Iohn Baptist were a president to Monkes whome Master Chark saith to haue beene an extraordinarie and perpetuall Nazarite whose example is not now laid vpon them that teach in the Church you answere that he doth wilfullie mistake the question for that you affirme not that such extraordinarie austeritie is laid vpon anie man of necessitie but that it is lawfull and maketh no sect when it is voluntarilie taken and vsed You do wilfullie omit the pith of Master Charkes argument who is not ignorant of your pretense of voluntarie but addeth that the seuerall offices of those that teach in the Church are expressed in the word of God and therefore there can be no new order of Ministers by anie title or voluntarie assumption but it is a suspitious sect howsoeuer seuerall persons maie as they see iust cause more or lesse prescribe vnto them-selues some extraordinarie austeritie of life for their priuate exercise or chastisment That Saint Iohns austeritie was for the moste parte voluntarie and not of necessitie of the vocation of a Nazarite it is fondlie proued of you by example of the superstitious sect of the Essenes described by Plinie and Iosephus of which Plinie speaketh verie little but Iosephus at large and in some points of austeritic noteth them to exceede any thing that we read in scripture of Saint Iohn Baptist as of their continuall exercise in labour of their handes their forbearing to spitte in the assemblies of men their forbearing to ease their bodies on the sabboth daie and such like superstitious toies Now the austeritie of Saint Iohn in that he did willinglie and not by compulsion vndergo it maie be called voluntarie otherwise in that it was appointed by the wisdome of god whose spirit directed him it was necessarie and especially for the forerunner of Christ to sing the dolefull song and to call the people to repentance and therefore not without presumption drawne into example by them that are neither led with the same spirit nor called to the same office and so no example nor platforme for the superstitious order of Monkes and friars albeit they alwares kept as great austeritie in deede as they professe in wordes But it is a wonderfull argument for your Monkes that the Nazarites did make a religious vow for their dedication to God as your religious people do also vse For it were somewhat that you saie if you could bring as good warrant for the vowes of your Popish votaries to be prescribed and accepted of God as you bring for the vow of the Nazarites otherwise it maie be said vnto you by God as he speaketh by the Prophet quis requisiuit c. who required these things at your handes which if it were said of those things which in some manner and to some end were required how iustlie maie it be spoken of these that in no manner nor to anie end are by God required at your handes but that Saint Iohn was a Monk of the new Testament and a patron of monasticall life although you confesse it to be more then you were bound to prooue so manie fathers as you name do testifie with one consent And what if he were an example followed of those Monkes that liued in moste of those fathers times is he therefore a patrone to your Popish Monkes of these late daies and new orders it will be more then hard for you to prooue that Now let vs consider your authorities which you affirme to testifie that Saint Iohn was a Monk of the new testament and a patterne of monasticall life First Gregorie Nazian orat de S. Bas. 1. hath this testimonie onelie he compareth Basill with Saint Iohn Baptist as resembling him in some thinges as he doth with Peter Paul Iohn the Euangelist and Stephan except you will saie theese were all Monkes Chrisostome in deed Hom. 1. in Mark. calleth Saint Iohn prince of the Monasticall life but not a Monke of the new testament as I haue shewed before in answer to your preface Neither doth Saint Ierome epist. ad Eustoch saie that Saint Iohn was a Monke and patterne of Monasticall life but speaking of the life of an Anachoret which liued by him-selfe alone in the wildernesse he saith huius vitae auctor Paulus illustrator Antonius vt ad superior a conscendam princeps Iohannes Baptista fuit Of this life Paul was the author Anthonie the beautifier and that I maie ascend higher the Prince or cheefe was Iohn Baptist. Where is Iohn Baptist the Monke or patterne of your Papisticall monkish life when they liued not in the wildernes but in cities populous townes not in caues and tents but in gorgious palaces Although Saint Iohn be the cheife of them that liued in the wildernes the same Ierome in the life of Paule the Heremite whome before he calleth the author of the Anachorites life hath these wordes Inter multos saepe dubitatum est à quo potissimùm monachorum eremus habitari
Can anie thing be spoken more abiect or more contradictorie to the scriptures and Fathers then this Can hell be more opposite to heauen then the carnalitie of this Apostata to the spiris of all saintes See you not how this fellow insulteth how he chafeth how he raileth but will you see also how he lieth how he falsifieth how he slaundereth For Luther saith not that mariage in comparison of virginitie is as golde he saith not that the state of virginity and continencie is as stinking dong c. But the comparison he maketh is betweene the state of matrimonie and the popish spirituall or Ecclesiasticall state of which he saith de vsu vel abusu c. of the vse or abuse of the states at this present we saie nothing but of the condition and nature of the states in them-selues and doe conclude that matrimonie is as gold but the spirituall state meaning of the popish Church is as doung because that setteth forwarde to faith this vnto impietie And lest you doubt what spirituall state he speaketh of he calleth it expresselie in the same discourse spiritualis status in papatu the spirituall state in poperie And for a more manifed discouerie of this impudent slaunderer I will set downe his wordes in the same place more at large yealding reasons why he doth so highlie prefer mariage before that popish state speaking nothing of virginitie or continencie or true chastitie as this shameles cauiller doth crie out Nemo igitur obiicies tua sententia coelelis permanebit sed quisque matrimonium contrahet quaeres huic Paulino textui aduersaretur Respondeo De spiriiuali nunc statu loquor ad matimonium comparato non de coelibatu Status spiritualis nulli prorsum rei accommodus est sed perditissimus praestaretque neminem spiritualem quemque coniungtam esse Porrò coelibatus vera continentia aliud est ac spiritualis status de hoc nihil omnino hîc Paulus agit de vera n. castitate loquitur Nullus enim statuum impudentior ad libinem promptior est Ecclesiastieo spirituali statu vt hodiernus dies contestatur Quòd siex illis coelibes quidam essent non tamen vtuntur calibatu ad Pauli institutum normam vt nequaquam castitas esse queat cuius hîc 〈◊〉 mentionē facit Isti enim ex castitate meritum iactantiam magnificentiam coram Deo hominib faciunt in eafidunt idquod cūfide pugnat D. Paulus verò exeafacilitatem quandam seruitutem ad verbum Dei fidem effecit Spiritualis verò status non ex labore suo viuit Arcadico iumento segnior c. Thou wilt obiect by thy sentēce therefore shall no man remaine continent but euerie one shal marie which thing is contrarie to the text of Saint Paule I answer I speake now of the spirituall state being compared to matrimonie not of continencie or virginitie The spirituall state or the spiritualtie is good for nothing in the world but is moste wicked and it were better that there were neuer a spirituall man and that all were maried But as for virginitie truecontinency it is an other thing then the state of the spiritualtie of which Saint Paul in this place speaketh nothing at all for he speaketh of true chastitie For no state in the world is more shameles and more prone to filthie lust then the ecclesiasticall and spirituall state as this daies experience doth testifie And if anie of them were continent yet they vse not their continencie to the purpose and rule of Saint Paull so that it can not be that chastitie whereof Saint Paull maketh mention in this place For these men of their chastitie do make a desert a boasting and magnificense before God and men and put their trust therein which is contrarie to faith Whereas Saint Paul thereof hath made a certaine easines and seruice vnto the word of God but the spirituall state liueth no of their labour being more slow then an Asse c. Thus hast thou reader Luthers iudgement out of his owne sayings by which thou maist must needes acknowledge what iniurie this falsarie hath donne vnto him in saying that Luther affirmeth the state of virginity or continencie to be as stinking dung promoting to impietie when Luther speaketh of the Popish spiritualtie whose doctrine and manners are blasphemous and wicked like the olde heretikes called Apostolici and Origeniani turpes which boasted of continencie and performed nothing lesse as Epiphanius and other do testifie The second of these last 4. that Christ and Saint Paull did not counsell but dissuade virginitie vnto Christians You aske if anie thing can be more contrary to Christs and Saint Paules sayings Master Charke answereth you sufficientlie the counsel pertaineth not to all but vnto those that haue the gift the rest are dissuaded from the attempt And for them that haue the gift Master Charke saith it is more profitable for them manie waies to absteine Luther saith Nec ideo coelibatum virginitatem reprobare mihi animus est nec inde quenquam ad iugale vinculam inuitare Quisque pro dono suo diuinitut impertito vt potest feratur Neither is it my minde to reiest continencie and virginitie nor to prouoke anie man from thence vnto wedlock Let euerie man beare him-selfe according to the gift that he hath receaued of God as he can What would you saie more that all men are here exhorted vnto virginitie euen those that haue not the gift of continencie it seemeth you would by alledgeing the saying of Saint Ierome Quasi hortantis c. it is the voice of our Lord as it were exhorting and stirring vp his souldiers to the rewarde of chastitie he that can take it let him take it he that can fight let him fight conquerre and triumph And whome doth Ierome meane by his souldiers all men in differently or those onely whom God hath armed with the grace gift of continencie If you 〈◊〉 say all S. Ierome in the wordes going immediatelie before in the same place will tel you another tale Qui potest capere capiat vt vnusquisque consideret vires suas vtrum poffit virginalia pudicitiae implere praecepta Per se enim castitas blanda est quemlibet ad se alliciens Sed considerandae suntvires vt qui potest capere capiat He saith he that can take it let him take it that euerie man maie consider his strength whether he be hable to fulfill the precepts of virginitie and chastitie For chastitie in deede of it selfe is pleasant and alluring euerie man vnto it But men must consider their strength that he which is hable to take it maie take it You see here that Christ exhorteth none but them that are hable by his grace and that all haue not strength to containe those that haue the strength Luther also exhorteth to vse it they that haue it not are commaunded by the Apostle to
wher of the high Priest was a figure Neither was the citie of refuge appointed onelie for the triall of the slaughter whether it were willinglie or vnwillinglie committed as you saie but also for a kinde of punishment and detestation of manslaughter so that if the sleaer were found out of the City before the death of the high Priest the auenger of blood might kill him and not be charged with his blood Where you refuse the mysterie of Christes death in the death of the high Priest and flie to the fantasies of the Iewes you declare that you care not what you bring so you maie obtaine your purpose But Chri stian diuines as Cyrillus Maximus and others of the death of the high priest in that place gather deliuerance by the death of Christ. Saint Ambrose also is cleere that the high Priest in this place signifieth Iesus Christ and confuteth the politike reasons by you rehearsed out of R. Mose and R. Leui for that in causis paribus there was impar euentus In equal causes vnequall end For the high Priest might die saith he the next daie after the manslaier hath taken his refuge Againe he addeth that Christ is exors omnium voluntariorum accidentium delictorum void of all offences voluntarie and chaunceable by which he acknowledgeth vnwilling manslaughter to be an offence Saint Ierome also Dialog aduers. Pel. lib. 1. is plaine in that wholl case and sinne of ignorance and that he which is fled to the citie must tarie vntill the high Priest die that is vntill he be redeemed by the blood of our Sauiour Beda also vpon this place by his allegorie sheweth how he thought of that kinde of sinne Also Theodoretus in lib. Num. quaest 51. declareth both the mysterie of the high Priests death and sheweth that such vnwilling manslaughter is sinne Cur ad obitum Pontificis praescribet eireditum qui nolens interfecit Qnia 〈◊〉 Pontificis secundùm ordinem Melchisedech erat humani peccati solutio Whte vntill the death of the high Priest doth he prescribereturne vnto him which hath slaine a man vnwillinglie Because the death of the high Priest after the order of Melchisedech was the loosing of the sinne of man and so forth to the same effect And if all the politike reasons be graunted of the mans tarying vntill the high Priest die yet the mysterie of Christes death is not thereby taken away whoos 's blood clenseth vs from all sinne voluntarie or vnuoluntarie The last fault of the definition is that the Iesuites acknowledge not the sinne of ignorance you answer they do of that ignorance whereof a man him-selfe is the cause but not of that ignorance which the schoolemen call inuincible which is not in the doers power to auoid nor he fell into it by his owne defaulte as in the example of the Queenes subiect being in his Princes affaires in India and commaunded by proclamation in Westminster to appeare there at a certaine daie in which cause his absence is excused by inuincible ignorance This case graunted betweene the Prince and his subiect prooueth not that ignorance excuseth before God because there is not the like reason seeing no such ignorance whereby a man should transgresse the law of God is in man but by voluntarie and witting transgression of the first man and his owne negligence which maketh his fact sinfull because he is cause of his ignorance by negligence or in the sinne of Adam in whome you confesse that all men sinned At least wise if originall sinne be voluntarie by the sinne of Adam so also is the transgression of gods law in these cases of inuincible ignorance wittinglie committed by the same sinne of Adam Augustine whome you quote for your purpose speaketh of naturallignorance and infirmitie which is in insants not of that whereby men fall into error and so transgresse Gods law For that he calleth penall ignorance and difficultie which is iustlie laid vpon them that neglected to seeke knowledge and is sinfull therefore cannot excúse sinne Chrisostome whome you quote likewise is manifestly against you his wordes are these Quòdsi ea ignoraueris quae scriri non possunt praeter culpam eris siverò quae scitu possibilia sunt facilia extremas poenas merito dabis If thou be ignorant of those thinges which are not possible to beknowne thoushalt be blamles but if they be possible and easie to be knowne thou shalt worthelie suffer extreame punishment As in the cases of Abimelech with Abrahams wife and Iacob with Lea who if they had made diligent inquirie needed not to haue beene deceiued through ignorance Neither doth God excuse Abimelech from sinne altogether as you saie albeit he pardoned his ignorance and kept him from the fact of adulterie acknowledged his minde to haue beene free from the purpose of Adulterie For the punishmeut laid vpon him argueth what he deserued by his ouer hastie purpose of mariage with Sara and Abimelech confesseth that Abraham had brought vpon him and his Kingdom a great sinne Also when God saith to him I haue kept thee thatthou shouldest not sinne against me he declareth plainlie that if Abimelech had lien with Sara vpon that ignorance he had sinned against God But of Iacobslying with Lea in steade of Rachell you mooue a greater contention and alledge Saint Augustine in his defense But whosoeuer gaue you your notes through your negligence in not reading the places your selfe made you erre through ignorance For S. Augustine doth notin all those Chapters once touch the question whether Iacob sinned in that he did not regarde what woman was laid in his bedde by which negligence as Master Charke saith he might haue committed most horribleincest with his mother aunt or daughter Onelie he defendeth his Polygamie by the custome of that time and the contention of his wiues for their lodgeing with him and last of all allegorizeth vpon the wholl storie drawing the error of Iacob and all the rest to a mysterie Nor yet de ciuit dei lib. 16. c. 38. doth he defend his negligence rehearsing onelie how he came to haue foure wiues when he went into Mesopotamia for one onelie adding that because he had lyen with Lea vnwittinglie he did not put her awaie lest he might be thought to haue mocked her Neither hath Iustinus Martyr lib. de verit Christ. rel anie defense of Iacobs innocencie or excuse of his negligence in this fact but sheweth onelie what mysterie maie be gathered of his marriages as Saint Augustine doth Finallie Theodores your last auncient witnes agreeing with the rest saith that Iacob betrothed onelie Rachell and beside the purpose of his will had to doe with Lea. But immediatelie assoone as he perceiued the deceit he tooke it heauilie and complained to his father in law what word of defense or excuse of his fact committed through ignorance negligence haue you in this saying yet you conclude after your vaunting mannner And what one
examples of inuocation of Saintes praier for the dead purgatorie and the like if you can winne them either by manifest wordes or by necessarie conclusion we are content you shall weare them and we also wilyeald vnto them otherwise you prate without proofe of expressed in the scripture trifling vppon the terme expressed which either we vse not in this question or els we meane therbie certainlie declared and taught in the scriptures either in expresse wordes or by necessarie conclusion But now let vs see how Master Chark is distressed in answering these twelue particulers For the first of the seauen which he acknowledgeth to be contained in the scripscripture which is that there is two natures and two wills in Christ he citeth these wordes Rom. 1. of his sonne which was made vnto him of the seede of Dauid according to the flesh Also Math. 26. not as I will but as thou wilt here you saie that the interpretation of the Church being set aside and the bare text onelie admitted these places cannot conuict an heretike yes verelie the onelie authoritie of the textis sufficient to confit me faith and to conuince an heretike For the former point thus The diuinitie and humanitie are two natures in Christ is diuinitie and humanitie ergo two natures The maior is manifest the minor is plaine by the text the sonne of God one nature the seede of Dauid an other nature For the fecond point The will of God and the will of man the one contradictorie to the other are two willes In Christ was the will of God contradictorie to the wil of man ergo two wills The minor is prooued out of the text not as I wil but as thou wilt seeing Christ was both God man That the Monothelits in the 6. Councill of Costantinople could not be conuinced out of the scriptures it is an intollerable slaunder of that reuerend assemblie for euen by this text and manie other their error was made manisest wherunto albeit the consent of the aun cient fathers was added yet is there no word in all that 4. action which you quote to prooue that they were not sufficientlie confuted out of the holie scriptures The second point is the proceeding of the holie ghost from the father and the sonne equallie for which Master Chark quoteth Ioh. 15. 26. When the holie ghoste shall come which I will send you from my father the spirit of trueth which proceedeth from the father c. Against this you cauill that it prooueth not the proceeding equallie and cite Cyril for your witnes in 15. Ioh. who out of this place prooueth that equally as wel as the proceeding seeing the heretikes might be ashamed to say that the spirit of the father was sent by the son as by a minister which also if they should saie he disprooueth for that if the sonn were as a minister he should be of an other substance then the father and the spirit proceeding from the father being of the same substance with the father should be greater in nature then the fonne whereas the sonne saith plainlie of the holy ghoste he shal glorifie me c. An other cauil you haue that this place telleth not whether he proceeded by generation or without generation from the father But it is sufficient that neither this place nor any other place of scripture teacheth that the holie ghoste is begotten therefore we beleeue without generation The third point is the vnion of the word vnto the nature of man and not to the person of man which because you did set downe obscurelie M. Charke did not rightlie vnderstand yet the text that the quoteth 1. 〈◊〉 14. The word was made flesh includeth that assertion also seeing there was no person of the man when the vnion was made vnto the nature of man but the word in taking vpon him the nature of man did vnite him selfe to it in vniting tooke it as it is euident Luk. 1. 35. Mat. 1. 20. The fourth doctrine is the baptising of infants for which Master Charke quoteth Gen. 17. 12. the infant of eight daies shall be circumcised Against this you haue manie trifling cauills that baptisme is not expressed of the sexe of the eight daie Against which I oppose the authoritie of Saint Augustine which lib. 1. cont Crescon Grammat cap. 31. confuteth the rebaptization of such as were baptized by heretikes by example of them that were circumcised by the Samaritantes whose circumcision was not to be repeated to whome the like might be obiected But it is sufficient that wherein baptisme answereth to circumsion the reason is one in both Circumcision was the sacrament of regeneration as baptisme is the one giuen to infantes ergo the other The cerimonie of the eight day had an other reason not needefull to be obserued in baptisme The distinction of the sexe is taken awaie by Christ in whome there is neither male nor female That Beza was striken dumme with this question in the conference at Poyssie it is a slaunder of Cladius de Xanctes confuted by Beza him-selfe But you had rather followe Saint Augustine who contendeth and prooueth that baptizing of infantes is onelie a tradition of the Apostles and not left vs by anie written Scripture lib. 10. cap. 23. super Gen. ad lizeram So you write but I will set downe Saint Augustines wordes that the reader may see what contention and proofes he vseth hauing protested of his ignorance how the reasonable soule commeth into the bodie he concludeth that the baptisme of infantes fauoreth their opinion which thinke that soules are procreated of the parentes And of the baptisme of infantes thus he writeth Consuctudo tamen matris Ecclesiae in baptizandis paruulis nequaquam spernenda est neque vllo modo superflua de putanda nec omnino credenda nisi Apostolica esset traditio Habet enim illaparua aet as magnum testimonij pondus quae prima pro Christo meruit sanguinē fundere Yet the custome of our mother the Church in baptizing of infantes is not to be despised nor by any meanes to be thought superfluous nor to be credited at all if it were not an Apostolike tradition for euen that litle age hath greate weight of testimonie which first obteined to shed blood for Christ. You see that here is neither contention not profe that it is onelie a tradition not leftin writing for he alledgeth one testimonie out of Scripture of gods acceptation of that age to martirdome much rather to baptisme and manie other testimonies might be brought for the same purpose as Matt. 19. 14. 1. Cor. 7. 14. c. As for Origen he doth onelie make mention of the baptisme of infants according to the obseruance of the Church to prooue originall sinne But whether it stand onelie vpon tradition and not vpon the scripture he saith not one word The 5. Doctrine is the changeing of the Sabbath into Sondaie M. Charke quoteth Apo. 1. 10. I was in the spirit on
the sense and true meaning of thinges them-selues And this is Chrisostomes meaning not of traditions altogether without the compasse of the scriptures and yet held necessarie to saluation For of the sufficiencie of the scri ptures he speaketh in diuers places and namelie vppon that cleere text 2. Tim. 3. Hom 9. of the scripiure he saith Siquid vel diseere velignorare opus sit illic addiscemus If anie thing be needefisli to know or not to know in the scriptures we shall learne But because you saie those wordes of Saint Paulare cleere 2. Thess. 2. for vnwritten tradititions I praie you what argument can you conclude out of them Saint Paul deliuered to the Thessalonians something by preaching and something by writing ergo he deliuered something that is not contained in the holie scriptures written either by himselfe or anie other of the holie men of God appointed for that purpose Who is so childish thinke you to graunt you this consequence therefore for anie thing you haue brought or can bring or anie thing that the fathers haue said or can saie the word of God writ ten is perfect and hable to make a man wise to saluation by faith in Iesus Christ which is to be had sufficientlie in the holie scriptures as Christ him-selfe doth witnes Iohn 5. 39. And so the former conclusion doth still stand It is great iniquitie to receiue traditions altogether beside the holie scripture as necessarie to saluation which must needes argue the holie scriptures of imperfection and vnsufficiencie Neither doth the consent of Antiquitie refute this assertion of Master Charke seeing the auncients as it is said spake either of doctrine not expressed in word but contained in deede in the scriptures or els of rites and ceremonies the perpetuall obseruation where of is not necessatie to eternall life as is prooued by the discussing of manie of them which the elder fathers do father vpon the tradition of the Apostles as much as anie other that they name And if you saie they were deceiued in such as are abolished how shall we know that 〈◊〉 not in such as are retained For in their 〈◊〉 they were all generallie receiued as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as well such as are discontinued as those 〈◊〉 remaine 〈◊〉 if any man will aske you what be these Apostolicall 〈◊〉 in particuler you could alleadge him testimonies 〈◊〉 auncient fathers for a great number But you referr 〈◊〉 Saint Cyprian Serm. de ablut pedum Tertullian 〈◊〉 milit and Saint Hieron dialog contra Luciferianos 〈◊〉 say he shall finde store Belike your note booke 〈◊〉 you thither although you listed not to take so 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 your selfe but turne it ouer to your 〈◊〉 Howbert he that is disposed to read the sermon 〈◊〉 Cyprian shall finde no store at all but of the necessitie of washing offcete which ceremonie was taken by the example of Christ yet is not thought necessarie in the Popish Church at this daie Tertullian in deede hath some prety store yet not to mantaine popish traditions so much as to ouerthrow them For he 〈◊〉 some things that are taken out of the scripture as to renounce the deuill in Baptisme c. some that are growne out of vse manie hundred yeares agoe as that the baptized should taste of milke and honie that they should abstaine from washing seauen daies after That men should signe their forheade at euerie steppe and proceeding going forth and comming home at putting on of apparell and at pulling on of shooes at washings at table at lighting of candells at beddes at stooles at all times and places Saint Hierome also in the person of the heretike rehearseth traditiones and among them such as Papistes do not obserue namelie the mixture of milke and honie geuen to them that are newlie baptized On the Lords daie and during the wholl time of Pentecoste neither to kneele in praiers nor to fast These are parte of those Apostolical traditions in particular which if they had beene necessary to saluation must haue beene perpetuallie continued If they were vntruelie ascribed to the Apostles what wartant can we haue of any other seeing the most auncient writers commend these as much as anie other for Apostolicall traditions Yet a few other examples you wil adde out of Saint Augustine whoe prooueth baptisme you sare by tradition of the Church lib. 10. de gen ad lit cap. 23. to this answere hath beene made sufficientlie in the 11. section that Saint Augustine doth not defend baptisme of infants onelie by the custome of the Church but also by the scriptures Likewise you saie he prooueth by the same tradions that we must not rebaptize those which are baptized of heretikes lib. 2. de bapt capt 7. lib. 1. cap. 23. lib. 4. cap. 6 It is true that he perwsadeth him selfe that this custome of not rebaptizing came from the Apostles tradition yet doth he by many arguments out of scripture prooue that such are not to be baptized againe which haue beene once baptized although by heretikes and therefore he saith of the same matter Hoc planè verum est quia ratio veritas consuetudini praeponenda est Sed cùm consuetudini veritas suffragatur nihil oportet firmius retineri This is plainlie true that reason and truth is to be preferred before custome but when truth consenteth with custome nothing ought more steadefastlie to be 〈◊〉 You see therefore that he buildeth not onelie vppon custome or tradition which is the matter in question but vppon trueth and reason which is founded by the holie scriptuers Your middle quotation de bap lib. 1. cap. 23. you may correct against your nextreplie for there are but 19. Chapters in that booke Againe you saie He prooueth by tradition the celebration of the Pentecost commonlie called Whitsontide ep 11 c. 1. If it were as you saie it is but a matter of ceremony not necessarie to saluation but in the power of the Church to alter as many like which are abrogated But in trueth he prooueth it not as you say by tradition For these are his wordes Illa autem quae non scripta c. But those thinges which are kept beeing not written but deliuered which are obserued thoroughout all the worlde it is giuen to be vnderstoode that they are retained as commended and decreed either by the Apostles them-selues or by generall Councells the authoritie of which is moste whollesome in the Church as that the passion of our Lord and his resurrection ascension into heauen and the comming of the holie ghoste from heauen are celebrated with yearelie solemnitie You see by his owne wordes that he is not certaine whether he should laie this ceremoniall celebration vpon deliuery of the Apostles or vpon decrees of general coun cells And whencesoeuer they came the matter is not great in such thinges as of their owne nature are indifferent and therefore alterable by discretion of the Church in all times Whether the Apostles were baptized which is
the next matter that you saie he prnoueth by tradition it is a question not so needefull to be decided although it may be prooued out of scripture that some of them which were Iohns disciples were baptized by him and so it is like were all the rest seeing Ierusalem and all Iurie and all the coast neere vnto Iordan were baptized by Iohn euen to the Pharisees and Saduces Publicans and souldiers it is not probable that the Apostles whoe before their calling by Christ were of honest and deuout conuersation did neglect that diuine institution which all men that would seeme to be religious made hast to receiue Furthermore you saie he prooueth by tradition the ceremonies of baptisme as deliuered by the Apostles lib. de fide Oper. cap. 9. The question is whether the Eunuch whome Philip baptized made such profession of his faith c. renouncing of the deuill as is required of them that are baptized when the scripture maketh mention onelie of a short confession that Iesus Christ is the sonne of God Where Saint Augustine sheweth that the holie ghost would haue vs to vnderstand that althinges were fulfilled in his baptisme which though they be not expressed in that scripture for breuities sake yet by order of the tradition we know that they are to be fulfilled Where tradition is not taken for that which is altogether beside the scripture but that which according to the scripture deliuereth what is to be obserued concerning the celebration of that sacrament which is the seale of mortification and regeneration That the Lordes supper should be receiued before other meates he thinketh of it as of other ceremontall matters that it came either from Apostolike tradition or from decrees of generall councell yet is it a thing not necessarie alwaies to be obserued for your selues doe housell sicke folkes at all times of the daie or night without respect whether they haue tasted any thing or no otherwise as a matter of order and decencie it is obserued of vs also to minister that sacrament before dinner and to them that be fasting if the case of necessity require not the contrarie Yet againe you saie he prooueth by tradition the exorcisme of such as should be baptized l. de nupt concu cap. 20. l. 6. cont Iulian. c. 2. But the truth is that by the ceremonie of exorcisme exsufflation and renunciation that is vsed in baptisme he goeth about to prooue that infantes before baptisme be in originall sinne and in the power of the deuill as is euident by both the places which prooue not exorcisme to haue beene receiued by tradition but by the end of that ceremonie vpon what beginning soeuer vsed in the Church at that time that infants are borne in originall sinne and subject to the power of Sathan before they be baptized The wordes of the former place are these In veritate itaque non in falsitate c. In truth therefore not in falsehoode the deuils power is exorcised in infants and they renounce him by the heartes and mouthes of their bearers because they cannot by their owne that beeing deliuered from the power of darke nes they may be translated into the kingdome of their Lorde Here is neuer a word of traditiō The second place hath these words Sedetsi nullaratione indagetur nullo sermone explicetur verum est tamen quòd antiquitas c. But although it originall sinne may be sought out by noe reason by no speach it may be expressed yet is it true that by true Catholike faith from auncient time is preached and beleeued thoroughout the wholl Church which would neither exorcise nor exsufflate the children of the faithfull if shee did not deliuer them from the power of darkenes and from the prince of death Here the auncient doctrine of original sinne is confirmed by the olde ceremonies of exorcisme and exsufflation which were vsed in baptisme to signifie that infants were by that sacrament deliuered from the guilt of originall sinne by which they were vnder the power of darkenes and death But that these ceremonies were Apostolike traditions he saith not or that they are of necessitie to 〈◊〉 vsed in baptisme when the one of them namelie 〈◊〉 is not vsed at this day for ought I know in the Popish forme of baptisme The Moscouites in place of it as it seemeth vse excreation For when the Godfathers and Godmothers answere that they renounce the deuil they spit out one the earth as it were in signe of detestation In Saint Augustines time they vsed to blow out In the last place you saie he prooueth by the same tradition that we must offer vp the sacrifice of the masse for the dead lib. de cura pro mort agenda cap. 1. 4. serm 32. de verbis Apostoli Of the sacrifice of the Masse Saint Augustine speaketh nothing but that praiers were offered for the dead at the celebration of the Lordes supper which he calleth sacrifice he saith it was by authoritie of the whol Church which was notable in that custome and that the wholl Church obserued it as deliuered from their fathers But seeing the elder Church for more then an hundred yeares after Christ had no such custome nor doctrine and especiallie seeing the same custome is against faith taught in the holie scriptures that the dead in the Lord are blessed that iudgement followeth immediatelie after death c. The authoritie of faith and trueth is to be preferred before the tradition and custome of men Neither is it to be thought to haue proceeded from the Apostles which is disprooued by the writings of the Apostles the onelie certaine witnes of the doctrine deliuered by them which is necessarie for vs to beeleeue and follow And therefore this new sir Censurer doth greatlie abuse the olde saints whome he would haue patrones of his vnwritten verities partely in charging them to referre vnto tradition many things that they doe not partlie in drawing to doctrine necessarie that which they speake of ceremonies mutable not the least in picking out one or two ouersightes to be pardoned vnder colour of them to maintaine all the grosse heresies of Poperie that are intollerable The fourteenth section Whether the Iesuites speake euil of scripture Art 6. intituled Nose of waxe IF you had ser downe Master Charkes replie betweene your Censure and your defense as reason would you should haue done for men to iudge indifferentlie betweene both you might haue spared more then two pages which you haue spent in charging him with a slaunder of the Iesuites where he reporteth that they saie the scripture is a nose of waxe when they saie it is as a nose of waxe For no reasonable man can make any other sense of those wordes the scripture is a nose of waxe but euen the same that you confesse to be the saying of the Iesuites the scripture is as a nose of waxe as Master Charke telleth you And moreouer that Paiua saith the fathers
of the canonicall scripture which was receiued by Christ and his Apostles and the primitiue Church long after them But the Papists adde of their owne authoritie to the holie canon and therefore as much are they subiect to gods curse as if they did take away Neither doth Luther discredit or deface the whol epistle of Saint Iames as you saie although in comparison of some other bookes of scripture by a similitude he maketh it farre inferior to them What Doctor Fulke and Master Whitaker haue written the one of the booke of Maccaebees the other of Tobie they haue sufficientlie maintained in their replies whereunto I remit the reader and for Master Charkes reuiling of Iudith to the reporte of the disputation in which your impudent slaunder is confuted Where you conclude that no man in the world euer spake more reuerentlie of holie scripture then Iesuites do you ouer reach very much as you do very often They which teach that the holyscripture is sufficient to make vs wise vnto saluation speake more reuerently then the Iesuits whichdeny the sufficiency of the scripture for the instru ction of the Church Last of al the Censure ridiculously charged M. Charke with fraudulent translation of this worde Immaculata when he alledgeth this text psal 19. as oppo sit to your nose of waxe The law of the Lord is perfect out of the original tongue the best translations from which the greek in sense dessenteth not not out of the olde latine translation Now you trifle to no purpose about the Hebrew Greeke Latine termes which to those that are but me anelie learned are well enough knowne what they signifie And first if you should graunt al that M. Chark said you thinke he had gained nothing For you also confes that the law of the Lord is perfect but not in that sense wherein M. Chark vsech it to wit that because the law of the Lord is perfect therefore the scripture cannot be wrested And afterward when you haue tolde vs that these wordes vnde filed irreprehensible and perfect which answer the latine greeke and Hebrue wordes 〈◊〉 not much in sense for whatsoeuer is irreprehensible and vnspotted may also be called perfect you conclude that this doth not prooue the scriptures to be perfect in sense in such sort as it maie not be wrested or peruerted You say true but it is false that Master Chark maketh anie such illation as you charge him For thus he inferreth the lawe of God is perfect ergo it cannot be wrested as a nose of wax or as his owne wordes are the scripture is perfect and manteineth her perfection against all corruptions as a right line sheweth it selfe bewraieth that which is crooked The lawe of a wise man as hath beene said before may be so perfect as it cannot be wrested like a nose of waxe into anie sense that the wrester wil imagine but that his vaine cauillation shall be odious and ridiculous to al men Much rather is the lawe of God so perfect as though all the deuilles in hell should breake their braines to wrest and peruertit yet can they neuer wrest it like a nose of wax to euerie side or shape but that the perfect sense of the scripture remaineth ful constant and manifest to them that haue the spirit of God yea euen to them that will iudge but indifferentlie according to right reason By the waie you charge Master Charke with railing and inueighing against your olde translation and with running he careth not whether forging he careth not what and reprehending he careth not whome yet in all that discourse he hath no more wordes of it but these your olde translation doth goe alone In which wordes what rayling running forging reprehending inueihing may be conteined let ihe wiser sort iudge and fooles learne to be wiser But where he saith that the best translations differ from the olde translation you aske what best or better or other good latine translation hath he then the olde As though none might be good but your olde translation I perceaue you would not acknowledge any good of them that were set forth by Munster Leo Iude or anie other professed protestant yet what saie you to the translation of Vatablus a famous and learned reader of Paris How dare you condemne the translation of Pagnine of the olde testament and Erasmus of the new testament as naught which the Pope allowed as good Finallie what exceptions can you take to the translation of Isidorus Clarius censured and approoued by the deputies of the Councell of Trent maie none of these be good better or best but that your olde translation hath the prerogatiue in goodnes in all degrees that it leaueth all other behinde it as nought O waightie censure of a wise Papist But let vs see wherein the excellencie of the olde translation doth consist as you suppose First you saie it was in vse in Gods Church aboue 13. hundred yeares past as maie be seene by the citations of the fathers which liued then But euen those verie citations doe prooue the contrarie at the least that it was not in generall vse in the latine Church Saint Augustine in the place by you quoted for the bowe of heretikes where your translation hath in obscuro did reade in obscura luna and standeth much vpon exposition of the darke moone Yea throughout the wholl Psalter whosoeuer wil compare the text which Saint Augustine vsed with your olde translation shall finde great difference betweene them But this your olde translation you tell vs was afterward oueruewed and corrected by Saint Ierome we know verie well that Saint Ierome did oueruew and correct a certaine auncient translation of the septuaginta that was vfed in his time But how are you hable to prooue that this your vulgar translation is the same either corrected or vncorrected For it appeareth by the citations of diuerse of the latine Church which liued after Saint Ierome that they vsed an other text then this translation euen vntill the daies of Bernard When you saie that this your olde translati on was highlie commended by Saint Augustine you make such a shameles 〈◊〉 as you obiect without shame to M. Charke when he saith that the Septuaginta agree with the hebrue in signification of the word perfecte for they saie irreprehensible which must needes be perfect but so is not your latine 〈◊〉 vnspotted or vndefiled which you your selfe in your censure do egerlie contend to be differing from perfection You name the translation of Erasmus and Luther of which the one translated onelie the new testament which Leo. 10. and Clemens 7. did both allow the other translated not the Bible at all in latine except perhappes some partes vpon which he wrote commentaries Here your Printer will make vs beleeue that you were remooued with a writ de remouendo so as you could proceede no further but now there is a writ de renouando sued against you if you
For at this daie the Bishops that be throughout all Christendome how rose they to that roome The Church calleth them fathers and yet shee did beget them and she placed them in that roome of their fathers Non ergo reputes desertam quia non vides Petrum quòd non vides Paulum quòd non vides illos per quos nataes de prole tua tibi creuit paternitas pra patribus tuis natisunt tibi filij constitues eos principes super omnem terram Do not therefore think thy selfe desolate because thou hast not Paull because thou hast them not now present by whome thou wast borne of thy owne issue fatherhood is growne to thee and for thy fathers thou hast brought forth sonnes them shalt thou make the rulers ouer al the earth Thus much out of Saint Augustine By whome you maie perceaue the great prouidence of God that euerlastinglie vpholdeth the ordinance of his sonne Christ Iesus as well now by the children borne from time to time in the Churches lap as before in the spring of our faith by the Apostles sent and appointed in person by Christ him-selfe FVLKE I suppose the title of your booke will admonish you not to restraine this office onelie to Bishops which so often you haue made common to all priestes For Gregory also in the same homyly nameth often times all pastours of the Church to whome the power of binding and loosing doth appertaine which are many other beside Bishops Moreouer inueighing against the ignorance and vnworthines of them that occupied such places which take vpon them to loose where God doth binde and binde where God doth loose he concludeth that then the absolution of the gouernours of the Chuch is true when it followeth the will of the eternall Iudge By which saying and more to the like effect in that place he declareth his iudgement of the kinde of power or authoritie which the Church hath that it is not absolute but subiect vuto the will of God and is an expressing of Gods forgiuenes or retaining not a proper forgiuing or retaining The saying of Saint Augustine prooueth in deede a continuance of the ministery of the Apostles in the office of Bishops but hereof it followeth not that onelie Bishops as they are distinct from priestes haue this power for not onelie Bishops be the children of the Church but all faithfull men to whome the inheritance of the world is like wise appointed ALLEN And here you must know that not onelie Bishops who succeede the Apostles in all kinde of power and regiment but also all other inferiour Priestes to be compted with them as successors in ministring diuerse sacraments as baptisme penance the reuerend Sacrament of the Aultar and such like but looke what power either Apostle or Bishop hath in remission of sinnes in consecrating Christes bodie in baptizing the same hath the wholl order of holie Priesthood by the right of their order and maie practize the same vpon such as be subiect vnto them in all causes not exempted for reasonable causes by such as haue further iurisdiction ouer the people Wherof I will not now talke particularlie the learned of that order know the limits of their charge and commission better then I can instruct them and the simpler sort must seeke for knowledge of their duetie by the holie Canons of Councels and decrees of Bishops made for that purpose I can not now stand thereon meaning at this present onelie to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Chistes owne word giueth which in this contempt of vertue and religion is moste necessarie for all men to consider FVLKE There is no power or authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ to preach the word of God or to minister anie sacrament but the same is common to euerie one of the Pastoures of the Church and not onelie lawfull but also necessarie for them to exercise in their seuerall charges Wherefore that ministering of some sacraments is permitted to them and of other denied them it is beside the word of god Againe the word of god that giueth them general power whose sinnes soeuer whatsoeuer you shal bind or loose is directlie against al exempted cases which sauor of nothing but of Antichristian tyrannie As for the cannons of Counceles and decrees of Bishoppes whether you send the simple to learne the limites of their charge can not restraine that Christ hath enlarged and therefore if your meaning were as your wordes professe to defend the holie order and challenge for it such right as the scripture and Christes owne worde geueth you would enueigh against the pride and ambition of the Pope other prelates that exempt anie cases from the Priests power and authoritie which the holie scripture and the expresse wordsof our sauiour Christ doth in such ample manner graunt vnto them ALLEN Therefore vpon our large discourses for this last point I now deduct the particulars to this summe which maie stand for a certaine marke as well for the good to discerne the trueth as for the aduersaries to shoote at whiles they liue Alpower and euery iurisdiction or right of Christs Church remaineth as amplie and in as full force and strength at this daie and shall till the worlds end so continue as they were by Christ graunted first in the persons of the Apostles or other instituted But the power of remission of sinnes was giuen properlie and in expresse termes to the Apostles Ergo the same remaineth still in Gods Church Whereupon it is so cleare that the Priestes at this day haue as ful power to forgiue sins as the Apostles had And this argument of the continuance of all offices and righte of the Church is the moste plainest and readiest waie not onelie to helpe our cause now taken in hand but vtterlie to improoue all false doctrines and detestable practises of heretikes For they must here be examined diligentlie what common wealth that is what Church that is in which Christ doth prescrue the gouernment giuen to the Apostles where it is that the power not onely os making but also of practizing al sacraments hath continued still what companie of Christian people that is wherein the Apostles Doctors preachers ministers through the perpetuall assistance of Gods spirit be continued for the building vp of Christes bodie which is the number of faithful people What Church that is which bringeth forth from time to time sonnes to occupy the romes of their fathers before them It is not good reader the pelting packe of Protestants It is not I saie and they knowe it is not their petie congregations that hath till this daie continued the succession of Blshoppes by whome the world as Saint Augustine saith is ruled as by the Apostles and first Fathers of Religion Surely our mother the Church hath hene long baren if for her Fathers the Apostles who died so long since she neuer brought forth children til now to occupie their roomes and
sentence of priests but the life of the parties accused in iudgement is enquired of We reade in Leuit. of the Lepers where they are commaunded to shew themselues vnto the priests and if they haue the Leprosie then they are made vncleane by the prieste Not that the priests doe make men Lepers and vncleane but for that they haue knowledge of a Leper and of him that is no Leper can discerne who is cleane who is vncleane Therefore looke how priest doth there make a Leper cleane or vncleane so here doth a Bishop or priest binde or loose not them that are vnguiltie or guilty but according to his office when he hath heard the variety of sinners he knoweth who is to be bound or who is to be loosed In this saying of S. Ierome diuerse things are to be considered First that the gift of the keies the power of binding loosing graunted to Peter by his iudgement and al mens in his time peiteineth to euerie Bishoppe elder or priest of Gods Church Secondlie that God onelie doth properlie and absolutelie forgiue sinnes and thirdlie that the priests sentence vpon earth is but declaratorie vpon his knowledge of the offendours of Gods sentence as the priests authoritie to make a Leper cleane or vncleane was onelie vpon certaine knowledge to pronounce that which God had wrought vpon him to his punishment or deliuerance and according thereunto either to seperate him or to receiue him into the congregation That penance in those daies was giuen greater then the fault required you finde not in Saint Ierome either in the one place or in the other that you quote Onelie in the later vpon the text of Mat. 23. which you cite of importable burthens he saieth Hoc generaliter aduersus omnes magistros qui grauiaiubent minora non faciunt This is spoken generallie against all such Masters as commaund burthenous things and them-selues doe not lesser thinges So that you would seeme to auoide Saint Ieromes iudgement vpon a false surmise For Saint lerome findeth as much fault with the prelates of his time for loosing them that are guiltie as for binding them that are innocent The contempt of your priests which you lament is both for there ignorance vnlawfull calling Whereas you assure them of the keie of remission and reteining of sinnes to be giuen them by God in their orders and then you send them to obteine discretion knowledge vertue with other qualities meete to exercise that office by praier and industrie you take a wrong course and contrarie to that which the Apostle prescribeth for he will haue men first to be tried and then to minister They must first by praier and other ordinarie meanes seeke to be fit for their office afterwarde lawfully be admitted thereto But where this order is peruerted they may haue calling and admission by men but I see not how they can haue power and approbation of God And therefore Saint Ieromes sentence standing your conclusion of the fruite of an ignorant priests absolution is nothing worth though there were no doubt of his calling ALLEN For this I dare be bolde to saie that the lacke of the appointed fruite of any sacrament ariseth a thousand times oftner by the vnworthines of the subiect and him that receiueth the sacrament then vpon any lacke of the giuer and minister thereof and namelie in this sacrament of the Churches discipline it chaunceth more often For as Saint Basil saith Potestas remittendi peccata non est absolutè data sed in recipientis obedientia in consensu cum eo qui animae ipsius curam gerit sita est The power of remitting sinnes is not absolutelie without condition giuen but it standeth in the obedience of the penitent and in his agreement with him that hath the charge of his soul. Therefore for Christs loue let vs cast perill oftner of our owne case then vpon other mens states for we are not so assured of the holie spirit or his grace to qualifie vs for the worthie receiuing as they are out of doubt for the right power of ministerie And to conclude against Caluin and all other that thinke the power of priestes either to be lesse for lacke of good life or want of much learning I alledge Saint Cyprian thus Remissio peccatorum per baptismum siue per alia sacramenta donetur propriè spiritus sancti est ipsi soli huius efficientiae priuilegium manet Thus in English Remission of sinnes whether it be by baptisme or by other sacraments giuen it properlie perteineth to the holie ghost and the preheminence of the foreceable effect is onelie his the solemnitie of wordes the inuocation of Gods name and the externall signes prescribed to the priests ministeries by the Apostles to make vp the visible sacrament but the thing it selfe and effect of the sacrament the holie ghost worketh and the author of all goodnesse putteth his hand inuisible to the externall and visible consecration of the priests So saith Saint Cyprian and maketh a farre long discourse how the diuersitie of the ministers desertes doe nothing alter the sacraments or the effect thereof but beeing a like to all receiuers of fit capacitie and condition by whomesoeuer they be serued and dispensed with iustice authoritie and calling thereunto The Baptisine of Iudas Iscarioth was no worsse then Simon Peters For S. Peter saith Connumeratus erat in nobis sortitus est sortem ministerij huius He was counted as one of our number had the lotte of the ministerie Nor the ministerie of Nicolas of lesse acceptation in it selfe then the function of Stephen being men of one office but of unlike deseruings The prophesie of Esate no more true then the prophesie of Caiphas nor the prophesie of Balaam lesse true then the prophesie of Baruc. If we were either absolued or baptized in the name of Peter and Paull or Iudas or Apollo then we might bragge who were best baptized or sureliest loosed from sinne and euery one might so either crake or be ashamed of his minister whereof Saint Paull earnestly checked the Corinthians But now euery one beeing both baptized and loosed and houseled and annointed and honoured in all other spirituall acts in no other name but in the name of Iesus his father euerlasting and the holie ghost proceeding from them both all must needes receiue the like benefite that be like qualified thereunto of whome soeuer the office is exercised if he be lawfullie called that is to saie haue by the handes of priesthood receiued the gift and grace of the holie ghost for his lawfull authorizing in that case the which gift of the holy Ghost being the selfe same that the Apostles receiued of Christ for the like functions continueth with them still though their life and desertes be neuer so euill and their ignorance neuer so much yea though they be by inst occasion as for heresie schisme or notorious life through the Censures of
name and authoritie shall sufficientlie beate downe these mens boldnes Saint Ambrose in this case is moste plaine and standeth with the Nouatians as I doe now with the Zuinglians euen in the verie same argument in these wordes Sed aiunt se Domino deferre reuerentiam cui soli remittend orum oriminum potestatem reseruent imò nulli maiorem iniuriam faciunt quà m qui eius volunt mandata res indere commissum munus refindere nam cùm ipse in Euangelis suo dixerit Dominus Iesus accipite Spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata c. quis est ergo qui magis honorat Vtrum qui mandat is attemperat an qui resistit Ecclesia in vtroque seruat obedientiam vt peccatism alliget laxat That is to saie These Nouatians saie that they denie penance or power to remit sinnes in earth in respect of the maintenance of such honour as is due to God to whome onely they will reserue the pardoning of mans sinnes But in deede none doe so much iniury to Gods glory as those which breake his commaundements and make a diuision of that charge and commission which he giueth For seeing our Lord Iesus by his owne mouth spake these words Receiue ye the holy ghost whose sinnes you doe forgiue they be forgiuen and whose sinnes you holde they beholden who in this case more honoureth God He that obeieth his commaundement or he that resisteth the same The Church obeieth in both as well in binding as in loosing Thus there And a litle after Looke to whome this charge was giuen and that person may lawfullie and with Gods good leaue vse the same Au l therefore the Church may lawfullie both binde and loose heresie and her attendants can rightlie doe neither This right is onelie committed to priests and therefore the Church rightlie challengeth that authoritie because shee hath lawfull priests and so heresie cannot doe because shee hath not the priests of God in her cursed congregation Thus said Saint Ambrose for the answere of the Nouatians in his daies and so say I now in the Churches behalfe against the like affected enemies of Christs honour which whiles they in face of scripture and Gods word would seeme to defend they are become sworne aduersaries of his honour and open contemners of his commaundements and holy ordinance Saint Ambrose here taketh it for a ground that it is Gods ordinance that Priests should remit sinnes he is bolde to call the contrarie doctrine heresie he maketh a principle of this that it neuer dishonoureth God that man should doe that which God giueth him either commaundement or commission to doe in his behalfe he taketh it for a knowne trueth that as the Church of God hath true and lawfull priests so shee may by them vpon Christes warrant bath loose and binde and contrariwise that heresie may well enough giue ouer that right of remission of sinnes because shee hath lightlie no lawfull priests by whome shee may practize the same FVLKE First you make a vaine exclamation or outcrie as though heresie hath spoiled the Church of her treasures vnder pretence of Gods glorie but such rhetoricall vamties all wise men will deride The Church is not spoiled of her treasures when neither Christ nor his grace is conteined in the sacraments but when Christ her onelie treasure is spoiled of his glorie of sole redemption and fatisfaction for our sinnes or of any other parte of the office that belongeth to the mediator Therefore it is her greatest honour that Christ may haue his true honour in whome with whome she hath al things not to the glory of flesh bloode but to the glorie of God to whome all glorie of right belongeth what Saint Ambrose did write against the Nouatians pertaineth not to vs who denie neither the power of remitting nor of reteining of sinnes but graunt both But that Saint Ambrose did not meane of such a power as the Papists doe claime I haue shewed before out of his owne wordes in the same place where he saieth that our Lord hath chosen such Disciples as should be interpreters of their Lordes will This power is graunted to all true ministers of the Church that they are the Legates or embassadors of god to declare his wil pleasure vnto men aswel for remitting as for reteining of sins And therefore Nouatus or Nouatianus did very absurdlie by Saint Ambrose his iudgement that did arrogate vnto himselfe power to reteine sinnes while he pronounced that they which fell into Idolatrie after Baptisme might not be receiued into the Church vpon any trial of their repentance and would not yeald that the ministers of the Church by the same authoritie might pronounce that they which were truelie penitent of their former wicked behauiour were forgiuen in the iudgement of God which was to remit their sins vpon earth with faith in Gods promise that they shall be forgiuen in heauen Thus the answere of Saint Ambrose vnto the Nouatians doth nothing in the world make against vs which denie no power that Christ hath graunted to his Church vnder collour of maintenance of Gods honour ALLEN And surelie it is a maruclous force of trueth or rather the might of Gods prouidence that driueth Heretikes to disdaine destroie and dissanull the graces and manifold giftes of Christes Church that impugning them where the verie right of such holie actes doe lie they may plainlte confesse and to their shame acknowledge that they haue none such themselues nor cannot by Gods warrant challenge any such giftes which with all their might they would wholie if they could together with Gods spirit and Church extinguish Alas into what miserie hath this forfaken flocke willfullie cast them selues and their adherentes which can forsake Gods house vbi mandauit Dominus benedictionem vpon which God hath bestowed his blessing abide there where by their owne confession there is no Priesthood no penance no host no sacrifice no remission where they can let of sinnes no grace in sacramentes nor no gift of the holie Ghost All other herisies lightlie by force of the Fathers Doctrine and iudgement lost either their Priesthood because they had no waie out of the Church to make Priestes as Saint Hierome writeth of Hilarie the Deacon or els the vse and function of Priesthood by reason the workes of God cannot be orderly nor benefi iallie vsed out of the house of God and yet they euer claimed to themselues not onlie the order but for moste parte all other functions that by Christ and his Church were annexed to that order but ours wherein they passe all their forefathers in a manner willinglie giue ouer the wholl profession freelie and without compulsion denie them selues with Nouatus to be priestes denie to sacrifice denie to enioyne penance denie to giue the holie ghost either by imposition of handes or by Chrisme or by any other solemne right of Gods Church To be short take nothing from these fellowes that belongeth
Christes owne person Which prouing and iudging of mans selfe to be meant by the diligent dif cussing of our consciences sinnes and misdeedes by contrition and confession of them to our ghostlie Father the practise of the Church doth most plainlie prooue which neuer suffered any greeuous sinner to communicat before he had called him selfe to a reckning of his sinnes before the minister of God and so iudged him selfe that he receiue not to his damnation that which to euery worthy person is his life and saluation Whereof S. Augustine or the authour of the booke de Ecclesiasticis dogmatibus set forth with his name giueth vs good notice for his time Quem mortalia crimina post Baptismum commissa premunt hortor priùs publica poenitentia satisfacere ita sacerdotis iudicio reconciliatum communioni sociari si vult non ad iudicium condemnationem sui Eucharistiam percipere sed secreta satisfactione solui mortalia crimina non negamus I exhorte euerie man saith this holie doctour that is burdened after his baptisme with mortall sinne to satisfie for the same by publique penance and to be reconciled by the priests iudgement to be restored to the communion of saints if he meane to receiue the holy Sacrament not to his iudgement and condemnation And I denie not in this case but deadly sinnes may be remitted by secret satisfaction Thus he By whose wordes you see in what a damnahle state men now of daies stand seeing that whosoeuer receiueth the sacrament of Christes bodie and blood before he be reconciled by a priestes sentence and assoiled of his sinnes he doth receiue it to his euerlasting damnation Vnto whose iudgement I ioyne Saint Cyprian in this same matter complainig verie earnestly vpon certaine Conuersies in his daies that would aduenture vpon Christes bodie and blood ante exomologesim factam criminis ante purgatam conscientiam sacrificio manu sacerdotis Before their sinnes be confessed and their consciences purged by sacrifice and the Priests hand Al these thinges might be at large declared and confirmed farther by the iudgement of mostauncient Fathers but because I haue bene verie long and enough alreadie maie seeme to be said for such as by reason will be satisfied a great deale more then anie Protestant will answere vnto and also the scriptures them selues giuing the Priest so plaine power of binding and retaining as wel as of remitting and loosing will do more with these that haue charged themselues with the beleefe of nothing that is not in expresse writing of Gods word then the vniforme consent of all ages and the moste notable persons in the same In respect of their humor therefore I will not saie much more for this point then I haue said onely my meaning now is for the Catholikes comfort to repeat a few such euident sentences out of moste authentique authors by whom we take a 〈◊〉 not onely of their meaninges which is much for the matter but especiallie of the Churches practise in all ages and moste countries christened since the Apostles time which I account the moste surest waie to touch trie truth by that by the example of al our forefathers euery man may willingly learne to submit him selfe to the sentence of such as God hath made the iudges of his soule and sinnes FVLKE Yf Saint Poul had meant Popish shrift he could and would haue said Submit your selues to the examination iudgement of the Priest and not as he hath said Let a man trie him selfe Iudge your selues brèthren Yf auricular confession be necessarie vnder paine of damnation for euerie one that receiueth the sacrament of Christes bodie and bloode immediately before it many thousandes of your priests which saie masse euerie daie without shriuing themselues are in a damnable case I or there passeth no day of mans life without some deadelie sinne if not in deede not word yet at the least in thought but that you popish hypocrites by your distinction of veniall sinnes flatter your selues to be cleare when you are moste foull and filthie but the perpetuall practize of the Church you saie prooueth the necessitie of auricular confession whereof you take witnes the author of the booke de Ecclesiasticis dogmatibus for his time which you doe honestly not to father vpon Saint Augustine being a man of much later time lesse learning and more corruption of doctrine but you do fraudulentlie cut of his saying in the waste because that which followeth declareth plainlie that either he meaneth not of mortall sinnes as the Popish Church now doth holde or else his opinion for secret satisfaction is farre differing from that you would haue men weene that he meaneth namely such as you vse to inioine in your confession fiue Ladies Psalters fiue fridaies fast fiue pence groates or shillings to so many poore men in remembrance of the 5. wounds and such like stuffe but these authors wordes require another manner of satisfaction Sed secreta satisfactione solui mortalia crimina non negamus sed mutato prius secularihabitu confesso religionis studio per vitae correctionem iugi immò perpetuo luctu miserante Deo it a duntaxat vt contraria pro his quae poenitet 〈◊〉 eucharistiam omnibus dominic is diebus supplex submissus vsque ad mortem percipiat Poenitentia vera est penitenda non admittere admissa deflere Satisfactio paenitentiae est causas peccatorum excidere nec eorum suggestionibus aditum indulgere But also that by secret satisfaction mortall crimes may be loosed we doe not denie but so that the secular habite be first changed and the studie of religion confessed by amendment of life and by continuall yea perpetuall sorow God being mercifull so onelie that he doe the contrarie things to those for which he doth penance and humblie and lowlie receiue the Euchariste euerie sondaie to his dying day It is true repentance not to committe things to be repented and to bewaile such as are committed The satisfaction of repentance is to cut of the causes of sinnes and to yeald no entrie vnto their suggestions Wherefore it is plaine that in this writers time there was no auricular confession but an open confession and publike penance for open and hainous offences and that none was admitted to secret satisfaction except he changed his habite became a Monke performed other conditions by him required by which it is manifest that the iudgement of this writer though corrupt yet is contrarie to the practize of the popish Church at this daie But Saint Cyprian is a better witnes I trow for the necessitie of auricular cōfession of secret sins sauing that he speaketh of them that had openlie fallen to Idolatrie and without open confession of their fault and publike satisfaction of the Church by some vndiscreete pastours were admitted to the Lordes table describing them he saith Mortiferos Idolorum cibos adhuc pene ructantes exhalantibus etiamnum
your pleasure First you say that Nectarius made the state of penance more free then before where as by the storie it is plaine that he toke awaie altogether that publique forme and triall of repentance leauing euerie man to his conscience Secondlie you saie the people tooke such occasion of libertie that they were loth to confesse or doe iust penance for their sinnes at all It is not vnlike that the wicked sort as they abuse all Christian libertie so being left to the examination of their owne conscience whereunto the scripture leaueth them would be more dissolute But the godly being deliuered from such a burthenous vnnecessarie ceremonie and custome would neuerthelesse confesse their sinnes before God and be truelie penitent and hartelie sorie for the same Thirdlie you saie Nectarius neuer meant to take awaie that whole order wherein he had no authoritie But that he toke it wholie awaie the storie is plaine and that he had authoritie in an order and decree of the Church first made against the Nouatians which was subiect to mutation Socrates doth declare And Sozomene reporteth the consent imitation of all the Catholike Bishoppes of the East which they it is not like would haue yealded vnto if it had beene as you say an institutio of shrist That it was not alowed of the writer of the storie Sozomenus it is a small matter seing it was alowed of so many hundred bishops for so manyyeares before him that were better deuines then he therefore you saie vntruly that it was but one mans doubtfull example but one bishops compelled act which was alowed of all the Bishops of the East followed But if it were good you saie it maketh nothing against priuat shrift yes verily for a thousand times greater incōuenience hath come by auricular confession then the abusing of one gentlewoman To omit all other the storie is famous and fresh in memorie within these few yeares when the Inquisitors in Spaine charged al honest women matrons that had beene sollicited by their ghostlie fathers vnto adulterie to confesse the same before them how the holie house was pestred with accusations and how full the streates were of women repairing to the holie house to declare the abuse of confession against their ghostlie fathers Wherfore if one such a fact as the old storie reporteth were thought a sufficient cause vnto all the godlie and learned Bishops of the East to abolish that vnnecessarie order custome of confessing and doeing open penance in the Church for secret faults how much more so many so shamefull abuses as haue ensued of this eare shrift ought to haue mooued the Church of God in these dates to put awaie the necessitie thereof that I speake nothing of the vngodlie opinions that are helde therof to the snare of mens consciences which make it alltogether intollerable Last of all where you alledge the practize of all Churches christianed to the contrarie how vntrue it is the verie storie is plaine and the custome of the Greeke Churches confessed by Gratian not to admit this kinde of confession as beeing onelie a positiue decree of men no necessarie institution of God ALLEN And sure it is that Saint Crysostome who succeeded Nectarius hadmuch a doe to bring the people made more licentious by the foresaide graunt to the distinct numbering of all their sinnes to the priest againe which he knew to be necessarie by Christes institution and therefore in exhorting them to confession he speaketh much of bashfulnes which the people had in vttering their sinnes and of feare of vpbraiding such things as they had confessed to the priests and of comming forth as it were to a publike stage to open their offences as the vse was in his predecessors daies Of all which things and other impediments of confession this doctor doth discharge the penitents by a warranting of them that priuate confession which is made without witnesse and to him that shall not laie any thing confessed to their charge or open it to the world is enough though the open order vsed before he counteth the more perfect and better wherein he saieth that Iob was not ashamed to confesse his faultes before the worlde much lesse Christen men should be aboshed to open themselues to God not meaning so by confession made to god as though he discharged them of opening their sinnes in the close consistory of the priests iudgement which he in deede did not but he meaneth as the Master first answered and other schoole men of great and exact iudgement after him that in steede of publike confession made in the face of the Church secret opening to the priest who occupieth there the seat of God and therefore would neuer shame him afore men would serue Marie the truth is that the late libertie that his people was set in through the disordered demeanour of the foresaid Deacon made this cunning shepheard and expert preacher so to vse his wordes as they might winne moste of the worste and be least offence to the weake And therefore he speaketh so warelie and indifferentlie that sometimes he biddeth them confesse to God and yet with seuerall numbering of euery of their sinnes and other whiles in the very same sermon he saieth atque oportebat maximè apud homines ea dicerc and yet they should be opened to men that so they might vnderstand his meaning and yet not be able to reprehend his words who were so weake as I said and so vsed to libertie by the loosing of the law in Nectatius daies that Saint Chrysostome had much a doe to make them submit themselues and their sinnes to the pastours of their soules Wherein not onelie his great obtestations in the beginning of his sermon but also his continuall beating on this string that they should not be confounded nor abashed to vtter their sinnes prooueth plainlie that his onelie purpose was to bring them to confession penance sacramentall done by the priestes ministerie For there he chargeth them that they did not weepe nor lament which he could not doe rightlie if those thinges were onelie inwardelie in cogitation harte to be done For how could be know that they did not make confession to man as we now know that no heretike maketh confession neither lamenteth neither doth penance for his sinnes because they haue remooued the way of Gods Church wherebie such things had wont to be done And by which Christ hath appointed is to be done Otherwise they will saie they confesse themselues dailie to God and so did Saint Chysostomes flocke I warrant you but he counted that no sacramentall confessing except they did it to God by the priestes ministerie which is the waie of confession which God hath appointed FVLKE So sure it is that Saint Chrysostome went about to bring the people to the necessity of auricular cōfession that it standeth only vpon your owne assurance without any warrant of Chrysostomes wordes which are cleane contrarie thereunto
to any other creature vnder God but also maketh the priestes to be as well the iudges as surgeons of our soules as to whome the searching the cutting the burning the hard griping the opening or the closing of our woundes and sores of conscience doth apperteine In all which cases he saith Quî igitur phramacum ei morbo adhibere quis possit cuius genus nequaquam intelligat How should a man salue that sore the nature and kinde whereof he knoweth not and to know it without confession of the partie is not possible For the things within a man none knoweth but the spirit which is in man And truelie said the Countie Bonifacius to Saint Augustine Ipse sibi denegat curam qui suam medico non publicat causam He hindereth his owne health that will not vtter his disease and the cause thereof to his Phisitian And further if you will be assured of the said Chrysostomes minde touching confession read his exposition vpon the wordes of the institution of this sacrament and of Christes breathing the holie Ghost vpon his Disciples for their power to remit sinnes Where he declareth that these holie things committed to the priests charge doe properlie apperteine to God by whose speciall grace we obteine remission euen then when the priest doth absolue vs where he also expresseth the verie manner of the Church in giuing absolution till this daie saying that the priest doth but as you would saie lende his voice and his hande Signifiyng that the manner was then as it is yet to speake the wordes of absolution and laie the hande vpon the penitents heade in the sacrament of penance So in sense saith Saint Chrysostome FVLKE Whosoeuer list to read that booke shall finde nothing in the worlde to prooue his iudgement for the necessitie of auricular confession but rather who so list to see Chrysostomes iudgement of the necessitie of shrift let him consider what we haue cited out of his writings in the last section For in this place by you cited he speaketh not of confession but of the difficulty of a Priests office as I haue shewed before to exact more knowledge and diligence of them because it is harder to be a shepheard of men then of beastes For the diseases of beastes maie moste commonlie be seene and they compelled to take the remedie the diseases of men are harde and sometimes impossible to be knowne and no waie either to compell men to discouer them or to receiue medicine for them Whereas if confession were a necessarie institu tion of God he might haue aptlie brought it forth in this place to shew what waie the spirituall shephearde hath to vnderstand the diseases of his sheepe His wordes are these after he hath spoken of the bodelie shephearde and his sheepe But the diseases of man first it is not easie for a man to see For no man knoweth those things that perteine to man but the spirit of man which is within him How wherefore should a man vse a medicine for that disease the manner whereof he knoweth not yea manie times he cannot know whether a man be sicke But when that is made manifest he hath more dissicultie about him For he can not heale all men with so great power as the shephearde doth his sheepe For there he may binde him restraine him of meate burne him cut him But here the power to receiue health lieth not in him that offereth the medicine but in the sicke person For this that wonderfull man saw when he saide to the Corinthians not that we are Lordes of your faith but we are helpers of your ioye And moste of all it is not required in Christians by force to reforme the transgressions of them that sinne But the forreine iudges when they take malefactors vnder the lawes doe shew great power ouer them and restreine them against their will to vse the same manners But here not by compulsion but by perswasion we must make such a one better for there is no such power giuen vs by the laws to restreine sinnes neither if the lawes gaue such power haue we where to vse it seeing God crowneth not them which of necessitie abstaine from wickednes but them that voluntaryly refraine from it Therfore there is neede of great cunning that they which are sicke may be perswaded willingly to submit themselues vnto the healing of the Priestes Thus much Chrysostome nothing fauouring the necessitie of auricular confession but rather denying any means wherby the inward disease of a man may be knowne except it be by voluntarie not extorted cōfession The countie Boniface speaketh of a publike fact which he cōmitted in taking a mā by force out of the Church for which he was suspended by S. Augustine vntil he did acknowledge his fault and shew him selfe penitent Therefore his saying can not be drawne to the necessitie of auricular shrift Neither doth Chrisostome vpon the 20. of Iohn declare anie iudgement or opinion that he thought it necessarie for a man to shriue himselfe to a Priest And where you vrge his wordes that the Priest doth lend his voice and his hands it is to farre of to prooue that it is necessarie for euery man to confesse al his secret faults to a Priest But I will set downe all that he saith in that place least anie man which hath not or can not vnderstand the booke may suspect there is further matter contained thererein toward this purpose then in deed there is Magna enim dignit as sacerdotum Quorumounque c. For great is the dignitie of Priestes Whose sinnes you shall remit saith he they are remitted Wherefore Paule saide Obey your gouernours and be subiect to them that you maie doe them the greatest honour For thou lookest to thine owne matter which if thou hast well ordered there is none other charge laide vpon the. The priest if he doe dispose his owne life and haue not diligentlie cared for thine he shall be thrust with the vngodlie into 〈◊〉 and sometime he is not damned for his owne deedes but for ours except he doe all things that perteine vnto him Therefore seing you see the greatnes of the daunger embrace them with much beneuocence which Paule also signified saying They doe watch as those which shall giue an account of your soules and therefore they are much to be looued But if you shal insult against them you shal not dispose your own things wel For so long as the master of the ship is of good cheereful minde the Mariners also are in quiet But if he begin to be hated of thē to be greeued he cannot likwise watch nor exercise his cunning being greeued against his will he shall trouble them with manie euills Euen so the priest if he shall see that the reuerence due to him is performed by vs he shall be able to gouerne vs well But if you shall kill him weakning his handes although he be of neuer so great
well as of anie other on whome handes were laide but of the sacrament of penance he speaketh not there or else where in all his workes nor of the necessitie of confessing of secret sinnes to a Priest ALLEN But to go forward in our matter Saint Basill a greeke writer also doth euidentlie shewe both his meaning and his Churches practise touching confession both often els namelie where he saith vpon the occasion of a question mooued touching that matter thus Necessarium est vt iis fiat confessio peccatorum quibus dispensatio mysteriorum Dei 〈◊〉 est Nam hoc pacto qui olim inter sanctos poenitentiam egerunt fecisse reperiuntur It is necessarie saith he that our confession should be made to them to whom God hath credited the disposing bestowing of his holy mysteries For so the Saints did penance as we reade And he alledgeth more that penance was vsed speciall sorowfulnes for sinnes with some kinde of confession of sinnes in baptisme how much more then must we now vse the same where it is more required where Christ hath instituted a Sacrament to that end to remit suines committed by relapse after Baptisme And in deed the custome of Iohn the Baptist prooueth that there was a kinde of confession necessarie or at the least conuenient before the institution of this Sacrament For the Euangelisten doe saie Baptizabantur ab eo in Iordane confitentes peccata sua Men were baptized of him in Iordane and made confession of their sinnes So that Iohn maie seeme to haue prepared the waie to Christes doctrine and Sacraments not onely by his baptisme but also by the vsing of the people to confess their faultes and yet it is not necessarie that his vsage of penance should be of like force or shoulde containe an exact conconfession of euerie sinne as the institution of Christ afterward did include no more then this Baptisme maie be thought to be fullie answerable either in manner of vsage or force and efficacie to the holie sacrament of Baptisme by Christ instituted for the office of the newe lawe And in an other place the saide S. Basill treateth how young Nuns and holie sacred Virgens should confesse themselues And in an other place he admonisheth all men to be circumspect in choice of their ghostlie father by whose sentence sinnes ought with singuler discretion to be iudged or examined Whereby it is most manifest that confession to the priestes was vsed and counted necessarie in his daies FVLKE You saie well that S. Basill speaketh vpon occasion of a question that was mooued touching this matter which question if it had pleased you to set downe Saint Basill shoulde haue serued you for no shew or colour of the necessitie of shrifte or confession of priuate offences The question is this O 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 He that is willing to confesse his sinnes whether ought be to confesse them to all men whatsoeuer they be or to certain men By which question it is manifest that cōfession was not necessary but voluntarie But if anie man will make confession S. Basill saith he ought to do it to them to whome the dispensation of Gods mysteries is committed For so they which repented of olde time are found to haue done vnto the holie men for it is written in the Gospell that they confessea ' their sins to Iohn the Baptist in the Actes of the Apostles all men confessed to them by whome they were baptized And we acknowledge as much that if any man will confesse his secret sinnes to be partaker of spirituall counsell and comfort for quieting of his conscience he may ought to confesse the same to them to whome the dispensation of Gods mysteries are committed But what is this for the necessitie of enumeration of all sinnes vnto a priest The same Basill in the Hom. 21. vpon Psal. 37. acknowledgeth in the person of Dauid confession to God alone to be sufficient yea the secret groning of the heart without moouing of lippes or vttering anie wordes to suffice In the 110. question for which you haue placed question the 100. as there is somewhat to prooue that confession was vsed to the priest or Elder so there is nothing to prooue that it was counted necessarie in his daies The question is this whether as at such time a sister maketh confession to an Elder the Elder women must be present This question declareth that priestes had not such familiar and secret shriuing of virgines in those daies as they haue now among the papists S. Basils answer is this The confession shal be made more decentlie and more reuerentlie by the Elder woman vnto the Elder man which is able wiselie to set downe the forme of repentance reformation This answer declareth that Saint Basell would not haue yong women to shriue them selues at all vnto the Priest but that if anie thing troubled their conscience which they were disirous to vtter they should first expresse it to an auncient woman and she should make report thereof to the Priest as in the colledges of virgines he prescribeth it moste conuenient to be done by the matrone or Elder woman that had the ouersight of the yonge sisters and in the next question he affirmeth that the said Elder woman or gouernesse hath iust cause to be angrie with the Priest if he appoint anie thing to be done by the sisters that are vnder her charge without her knoweledge Whereby he declareth plainelie that he alloweth not that priestes should heare the secret confession of such yonge women or appoint them anie penance without the knowledge of their gouernesse That men ought to make good choise of them to whome they wil confesse their secret offences it prooueth not that confession is necessarie whereupon we stand or that it was accounted necessarie in Saint Basills daies That Iohn Baptist made a preparatiō to shrift it is a fond dreame when you your selfe acknowledge that your sacrament hath no place in them that are not babtized That the institution of Christ doth include an exact confession of euerie sinne to the Priest you can neuer be able to prooue The Baptisme of Iohn was not instituted by man but by God therefore of as great efficacie as that which was ministered by the Apostles for Christ was baptized for vs not with the worse baptisme which was ministered by the hands of Iohn ALLEN Necephorus later then he but a learned Greeke writer declareth also vnto Theodosius a Monke that the power of binding and loosing sinnes was committed to bishoppes by our mercifull Lord Christ Iesus in so much saith he that once all men came and confessed their secret sinnes to them by whom they either receued pardon or were put backe But now through the encrease of Christian people and great tediousnes of the worke they haue committed this busines much what to religious persons such as be of tried conditions for to be moste profitable to others
Thus saith he in sense FVLKE This Nicephorus is too late a Greeke writer that we should approoue his iudgement for the necessitie or perpetuall practise of auricular confession Againe there is nothing but a fragment of an Epistle remaining by which we cannot thoroughlie gather what his iudgement was But this is manifest in him that men ought no more to confesse them selues to an vnlearned man then in sicknes to take counsell of one that is ignorant in phisike Againe he saith not as you report that once al men came confessed their sinnes to Bishopes But he gathered vpon the commission graunted to Bishoppes by those wordes which were spoken to Peter whatsoeuer thou shalt binde shal be bound and whatsoeuer thou shalt loose shal be loosed that olim omnes oportehat ad ipsos pontifices accedere suaque illis occulta prodere sic vel reconciliationem vel repudium ferre Ignoro autem quî factum sit cur haec minùs obseruentur quamuis existmem pontifices negocij taedio frequentique 〈◊〉 turbulentia defatigatos id operae ad Monachos transmisisse eos scilicet qui verè probati sint aliisque valeant esse vtiles nihil enim tale inexpertis indoctis permiserunt In times past it behoued all men to come to the bishoppes them selues to vtter their secretes vnto them and so to receiue either reconciliation or refusall But I am ignorant how it is come to passe that these thinges are not obserued although I thinke that the Bishoppes being wearied by the tediousnes of the busines and the often troublesomenes of the multitude haue set ouer that labour to the monkes namelie those that are trulie appooued and are able to be profitable vnto other for to vnexpert and vnlearned men they haue permitted no such thing In this writer there is nothing but his owne collection and coniecture which is not sufficient to 〈◊〉 mens consciences with a necessity of confessing all their secret sinnes to a Bishoppe or Monke and lest of all to an ignorant and vnlearned priest such as are and haue bene the moste rife and readie confessors among the papists ALLEN These therfore and manie other do testifie for their Church in what solemne vse sacramentall confession hath euer beene Wherein we haue the lesse need to stand long seeing the same Historie that our aduersaries doe sometime alledge plainlie reporteth not onelie in the Church of Constantinople but also in the West Churches and namelie at Rome alwaies since Nouatus the Heretikes false opinion touching penance rose a vertuous Priest sadde secret and wise was appointed to heare the sinnes of all men and was called the Pnitentiarie then as he and the like of that office he called yet We call them Confessours and of olde in Greeke they were named Spirituall Masters or Fathers as we now terme them in our Mother tongue Ghostlie Fathers also Quisecundùm vniuscuiusque culpam indicebant mulctans Who saith Sozomenus according to euerie mans fault prescribed due penance Which penance though it were often openlie done by the confessours appointment yet the sinnes were not knowne for which the penance was preseribed For the confession was secret or auricular as we call it now as is plaine by the historie else the Priest of that office should not haue beene charged with secrecie and silence though the confession sometimes was also open where the penitents deuotion or desire so required as it maie be yet For it is no matter for the substance of the sacrament whether it be publike or priuate And it is the condiscending to the peoples weakenesse that that should be so secret generallie which often in olde time hath beene open And yet I think no man was euer compelled by anie precept of the Church to confesse in the publike face of the Church his sinnes that were committed secretlie Though in Leo the greathis daies there was a custome not allowable that men were forced to giue vp a libell openlie of all their sinnes Which rigorous custome the said holie father afterward abrogated Neuerthelesse the penance was of olde often publike the forme whereof appeareth in Saint Ambrose in Tertullian who both haue written seuerall bookes De poenitentia in Saint Augustine in sundrie places and in this present Historie of Sozomenus And long after their daies there were called Poenitentes Penitents which were barred from the holie communion the secrets soueraigne holie of the blessed mysteries of the Masse so long as their prescribed penance indured besides fasting almes and other like penalties inioyed And especially in Lent time there were of these deuout publike penitentes as appeereth by diuerse orders of the seruice in the Church appointed agreeing to them who lightly were separated till the celebrating of the Lords supper passion in the holie daies next before Easter Whereof yet in most Churches there remaineth a small signe by discipline giuen to the people with roddes on the same daies But now these manie yeares the peoples feablenes considered there is no publike penance giuen nor receiued in the Sacrament much lesse open confession made of anie secret crimes the Church being well assured that this auricular confession sullie answereth Christes institution and agreeth also with the often practise of the Primitiue Church herein though the heretikes and some of their faulters as Beatus Rhenanus or who else soeuer wrot the preface that commonlie 〈◊〉 annexed to Tertullian denie the same And truly seeing their wanton pleasure is not to beare secret confession I dare saie they can much lesse awaie with publike penance or confession which is a thousand times more burdenous FVLKE There hath hitherto no ancient writer bin brought to testifie the necessitie of confession of secret sinnes nor that there is anie sacrament whereof such confession should be part The storie before remembred testifieth of the abolishing of such confession in the Church of Constantinople but that there was anie such Priest or confession vsed in the Church of Rome it maketh no mention but onelie sheweth that they which did open penance which was for open offences for which they were excommunicated were enioyned an exercise or triall after the performance whereof they were receiued into the Church againe As you thinke that no man for his sinnes committed secretlie was compelled to make confession in the publike face of the Church so doe I thinke that no man in those auncient and better times was euer compelled to make anie confession open or secret of all his secret faultes committed in thought word and deede The publike penance mentioned in Tertullian Ambrose Augustine was for publike offences The ridiculous discipline giuen with rodds in the popish Church by the verie name therof declareth that it is a mockery of the old discipline no signe of anie sacrament of confession And therfore as yet nothing is brought to prooue auricular confessing of secret sinnes to be a necessary institution of Christ or agreeable with the practise
the least they disdaine to submit themselues to the Priests whom God hath giuen power vnto to discearne the cleane from the vncleane But I would thou shouldest not beguile thy selfe by false perswasion or some respect of shame that thou hast to confesse vnto the priest who is Gods Vicare For I tell thee thou must vnder his iudgement whome God doth not disdaine to constitute his Vicegerent But this Doctour made a wholl worke of penance and the waies of recouerie of Christian mans fall after Baptisme by the Priests iudgement and sacrament of Confession Of the which bookes if any man list doubt yet let him be assured that they be both auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies whosoeuer made them And our cause is so much more holpen because not onelie Saint Austine who is plaine in these matters vpon Saint Matthwes Gospel and els where as it is declared alreadie but also other of great antiquitie confirme the same and plainly confound the pride of our daies in which men are not somuch ashamed of their sinnes as they be disdainefull to confesse their sinnes vnto a poore priest though he iustlie accupie the verie iudgement seat of God FVLKE You doe wiselie to deuorce vpon his meaning when you haue not his wordes to warrant you For so you maie blinde the eyes of the ignorant to beleeue that you haue som farther intelligence of meaning then can appeare euen by the words that you haue cited out of him For the 〈◊〉 of condemnation is not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against them which are ashamed to confes their faults to men if they amend them before god but against them that flie the knowledge and iudgement of men and yet doe not repent before God And therefore he saith si ea confiteri aut emendare noluerirt if they will not confesse them or amende them and againe si in maio suo permanserint if they shall continue in their euill But if they will amend their faultes and not continue in sinne he dare promise them forgiuenes and life euerlasting as is declared in the last section But now you charge vs with Saint Agustines authoritie and yet you will not abide by it that it is Saint Augastines authoritie wherein you deale more sincerely then Papists are commonlie wont to doe to acknowledge that these bookes you vouch are not admitted for Saint Augustines authoritie Among so many great and large volumes as are certeinlie knowne and generally receiued to be of Saint Augustines writing where you can finde nothing but these bookes of vncerteine credit to mainteine the necessitie of auricular confession the indifferent reader may well gather how litle ground your purpose cā finde in that age of S. Austins For that you haue declared alreadie out of S. Austine vpon S. Matthewes Gospel ells where how plaine it is for these matters let the reader iudge by that I haue answered in those seuerall places But as touching the bookes de visitatione 〈◊〉 being one of the two treatises that you cite as it is certaine that it was not of S. Austines writing so hath it no similitude with the doctrine of his time or with the stile of anie learned or auncient father The Censure of Erasmus vpon these bookes is this Sermo locutulei nec docti nec diserti Quid habuerunt vel frontis vel mentis qui talia scripta nobis obtruserunt nomine Augustini c. These bookes are the speach of a pratler neither learned nor eloquent What shame or wit had they which haue thrust vpon vs such writings vnder the name of S. Augustine Yet you dare assure vs that they be auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies But the reasons of your assurance you spare to shewe giuing vs nothing but your bare word which is sufficient among vnlearned and sottish Papists whose ignorance you knewe would accept whatsoeuer you brought and therefore were carles what all the learned of the contrarie parte might iudge of your impudent and shameles assertions Concerning the other whole worke of penance which you affirme that this doctour made although it were graunted that Saint Augustine was author of that worke of repentance as it shall be easilie graunted that if not Saint Augustine yet some other auncient and learned father was the writer of them neuertheles there is nothing in them by which you are able to prooue the matter in controuersie namelie the necessitie of confession of all mortall sinnes to a Priest And therefore albeit you set a good face vpon the matter you haue neuer a sentence to set downe out of those bookes that is able to giue but onely a glosse or colour to your Popish confession For if you had you woulde not haue beene silent in setting forth the sentence of another beside Saint Augustine as you saie and as I thinke of great antiquitie who against them that be impenitent and neither acknowledge their sinnes vnfainedlie before God nor studie to amend and reforme their wicked life writeth vehementlie shewing three kindes of repentance one before baptisme in them that are of yeares another after baptisme which is dailie sorowing for our infirmities in saying the Lordes prayer the third of heinous and notorious sinnes offensiue to the Church of them that are excommunicated and are not to be receiued without open confession and signes of humilitie But the necessitie of confessing all thinges to a poore priest iustlie occupying the verie iudgement seate of God there is no word in either of those two bookes De medicina poenitentiae de vtilitate poenitentiae ALLEN And Saint Ambrose these mens auncient somewhat did knowe this practise so well and allow it that he did sit in his owne person on confession as Paulinus doth recorde whose behauiour in that diuine office that all Priestes maie perceiue and all the people note I will report Quotie scunque illi aliquis ob percipiendam poenitentiam lapsus suos confessus esset it a flebat vt ilium flere compellerat Causas autem criminum quas illi confitebaniur nulli nisi Domino soli apud quens intercedebat loquebatur bonum relinquens exemplum posteris sacerdotibus vt intercessores apud Deum sin magis quà m accusatores apud homines That is to saie So often as anie man came vnto him to confesse his faultes and receiue penance he so wept that he made the Penitent to weepe also But the faults themselues which they confessed he vttered to no man but to God alone to whome for their sinnes he made sute leauing a blessed example to all Priestes of the posteritie to account themselues rather as intercessours to God for sinnes then accusers of men before the worlde for their sinne This saieth Paulinus of Saint Ambrose whereby at once we see the iudgement of them both for our matter FVLKE The iudgement of Saint Ambrose concerning the necessitie of popish thrift or auricular confession we haue
heard before out of his owne writinges Neither doth Paulinus testifie anie other thing of him nor any other thing then might be said of Luther and Caluin whoe were no friendes of Papisticall confession For if anie man did confesse vnto them his offences that he might shew himselfe truelie penitent and receiue comfort and counsell for his amendment no doubt but those holie men were greatlie grieued at his fall which mooued the offendour to greater sorow for his sinne and yet those faultes as were discouered to them being such as might with duetie to God and the state be concealed they would neuer vtter to aniebodie What would this make to prooue that they saie on confessions like popish Priestes and required all men vnder paine of damnation to confesse vnto them their secret deadlie sinnes as pop sh Priests doe But popish prelates disdaine to doe that which they faine Saint Ambrose to haue done Manie of them being such for their knoweledge as you might rather seeke water out of a pumise stone then the doctrine of comfort out of their mouthes and for their liues and conuersations such as deserue if there were anie hope of amendment in them to stand in the Church among open penitents rather than to sit in the chaires of gouernment and iudgement ouer other men Wherefore by this citation we neither see the iudgement of Paulinus nor of saint Ambrose for your matter of the necessitie of auricular confession For that secret confession maie be made in some case we denie not but that it is necessarie to be made of all deadlie sinnes that man can remember you haue not yet prooued ALLEN But to go forward Saint Cyprians meaning is so plaine for confession of sinnnes that he prescribeth the verie thoughtes of man that be sinnefull and damnable to be vttered vnto the Priestes praising them that vpon onelie intent and purpose of committing idolatrie hoc ipsum apud sacerdotes Dei dolenter simpliciter confitebantur did simplie and sorowfullie make confession thereof to the Priests of God And now that we are for the practise and proofe hereof at S. Cyprian which is high in Gods Church we neede not staie here though we be farre enough paste our aduersaries account in such cases that laie it downe at I ateran Councell a whole thousand yeares shorte of those daies I will not much speak of Tertullian whome Saint Cyprian calleth Master his wholl booke writen of penance doth make altogether for this sacrament and for confession to be made to Gods Priestes which he calleth exomologesin prosternendi atque humiliandi hominis disciplinam and amongst other things pertaining to the act of confession and penance which then was much more publike and seuere then it is now he reckeneth this to be one Presbiteris aduolui to be humblie laid at the Priests fecte where he also resembleth a man that is lothe to confesse his inwarde faultes to him that hauing a filthie botch in the secret partes of his bodie had rather let it 〈◊〉 vp the member then for foolish shamefastnes vtter the griefe to his surgeane FVLKE You slaunder Saint Cyprian greatlie to make him be so plaine of your meaning that he perscribeth the verie thoughts of man that be sinneful and damnable to be vttered vnto the priests although he praise them that vpon onelie intent and purpose of committing Idolattie did sorowfullie and simplie confesse the same before the priests of God His wordes are these Denique quando fide maiore timore meliore sunt qui quamuis nullo sacrificij aut libelli facinore constricti quoniam tamen de hoc vel cogitauerūt hoc ipsum apud sacerdotes dei dolenter simpliciter 〈◊〉 exomologesin conscientiae faciunt animi sui pondus exponunt salutarem medelam paruis licet modicis vulneribus exquirunt scientes scriptum esse Deus non deridetur Finallie seeing they are both of greater faith and better feare which although they be guiltie of no wicked fact of sacrifice or libell yet because they haue so much as thought of such a matter they sorowfullie and simplie confesse the same before the Priests of God they make confession of their conscience they declare the burthen of their minde they seeke for wholsome medicine although for small and litle woundes knowing that it is writen God is not mocked What prescription is in these wordes of anie necessitie of confession of all the sinnefull thoughts of men his meaning is that they shewe them selues more faithfull and to feare God better which voluntarilie when there is no necessitie offer themselues to open repentance For their onelie purpose of sacrificing to the better quieting of their conscience then they which being polluted with libells as they called them by which they professed to paie monie that they might not be compelied to sacrifice to Idolls yet would not acknoweledge that they were in anie faulte which was necessarie for them to doe before they could be admitted into the congregation And therefore you haue neither practize nor proofe of the necessitie of auricular confession in Cyprians time which was 1000. yeares before the Lateran Councell which decreed the necessitie thereof That you will not speake much of Tertullian it is because you haue litle yea nothing at all in him to vpholde your purpose His booke de Poenitentia is well knowen to be written of open penance for such as were to be baptized or els had openlie fallen with offence of the Church but as for your popish sacrament of penance or confession before the priests otherwise then before the whole Church you haue nothing in that booke and therefore among other thinges pertaning to that seuere discipline of publike repentance where he reckeneth Presbyteris aduolui to be one he addeth immediatelie arie dei adgeniculari omnibus fratribus legationes deprecationis sue 〈◊〉 And to kneele before the altars of God to require all the brethren to praie for them And immediately it followeth haec omnia exomologesis vt poenitentiam commender All these things confession requireth to set forth repentance And as touching him that refuseth this discipline for shamefastenes his wordes are these Plerosque tamen hoc opus vt publicationem sui aut suffugere aut de die in diem differre praesumo pudoris magis memores quà m salutis velut illi qui in partibus verecundioribus corporis contracta vexatione conscteniam medentium vitant ita cum rubescentia sua pereunt Yet I suppose that many doe either eschew or defer from day to daie this worke as a defamation of themselues being more mindeful of shamefastnes then of their health as those men which hauing gotten a vexation in the secret partes of their bodie do auoide to haue it knowne to them that should heale it so perish with their shamefastnes This saying doeth not prooue the necessitie of confession of all our sinnes so often as we fall but the necessitie of open
originall which Bull was graunted Hospitali Sancti 〈◊〉 in Saxia almae vrbis In which is an approbation of all pardons graunted by his predecessours to the saide hospitall and the members thereof Whereof there are rehearsed that Innocent the third graunted to the faith and deuotion of the faithfull and the saluation of their soules to all that visit the said hospitall and the members thereof from the feast of the natiuitie of our Lord and euerie day vnto the octaues thereof two thousand and 800. yeares of pardons The same Innocent graunted to the said hospitall and the members thereof in euerie festiuite of the Apostles 2000. yeares of pardons The same Ionocent graunted to the said hospitall and the members thereof euerie daie of the wholl yeare one yeare and 40. daies of pardon Also Pope Alexander the fourth graunted to the saied hospitall and the members thereof from the feast of the holie ghost in the moneth of Ianuarie euerie daie vntill the octaues of the same feast foure thousand yeares and eight hundred Lents of pardon remission of the seuenth part of al their sins And on the Sundaie in which there is song for the introite of the Masse Omnis terra the said Alexander graunted to the saied hospitall and to all and euerie the members thereof the first Sondaies of euerie moneth of the yeare 3000. yeares and as many Lentes and remission of the third part of all their sinnes The same Alexander graunted to the saide hospitall and the members thereof from the feast of Corpus Christi euerie daie vntill the octaues 2000. yeares and remission of the seuenth part of all their sinnes Pope Celestinus the 5. graunted to the saide hospitall and the members therof from the feast of the Epiphany vnto the octaues euerie daie a hundreth thousand yeares of Pardons The same Celestine graunted to the saied hospitall and the members thereof from the feast of the natiuitie of the Virgin Marie and in the octaues euerie daie thirtie thousand yeares of Pardon as many Lentes Also Pope Clement the 5. graunted to the said hospitall and the members thereof from the feast of the resurrection of Christ vnto the octaues thereof euerie daie two thousand and eight hundreth yeares of Pardon Item Pope Boneface the 8. graunted to the 〈◊〉 hospitall and to the members thereof from the feast of the ascension of Christ vnto the octaues 2500 yeares of Pardons Item Pope Clement the sixt graunted to the said hospitall and to all the members thereof from the feast of Pentecost vnto the octaues thereof euerie daie 8000. yeares 8000. Lentes full remission of all their sinnes Item Pope Innocent the 6. hath graunted to the said hospitall and to the members thereof from the feast of the assumption of the blessed Marie vnto the octaues thereof euerie daie 2000. yeares and 2000. Lentes of Pardons Item Pope Benedict the 12. hath graunted to the saide hospitall and the members thereof from the feast of all Saints to the feast of Saint Leonard 3000. yeares and as many Lentes of Pardons The summe of the daies of pardon graunted by Popes and by 60 Archbishops and by 70. Bishops in the consistorie of Lateran confirmed by the authoritie Apostolike maketh 700. yeares and as many Lentes The summe of the Masses of the wholl order by the yeare maketh thirtie two thousand and as many psalters of the bretheren which are of the order In these liberall grauntes where there is not onely thousandes of yeares and Lents by which you vnderstand paines penances inioyned or due for sinne what meaneth the remission of the seuenth part of the third part of all their sinnes yea full remission of all their sinnes except the Pope meane either to mocke men that receiue his pardons or els tooke vpon him to remit deadly sin as the words sound can haue none other sense seeing there is not onelie the vniuersall particle all their sinnes but also remission of sinnes is distinct from paine of penance due for sinnes Againe what should neede so large pardon for veniall sinnes which may so easilie be remitted without pardon except the pope meaneth to release the paines due for deadlie sinnes Doe ventall sinnes which may be washed away with holie water deserue so many hundred thousand yeares of penance or punishment as are conteined in these pardons Finallie what shal we saie to those pardons that are graunted for saying of certeine praiers wherof diuerse printed bookes are full in which is expresse mention of pardon for mortall sinnes As for example Pope Alexander the sixt graunteth to him that saieth a certeine praier deuoutlie in the worship of Saint Anne and the Virgin Marie and her sonne Iesus ten thousand yeares of pardon for deadlie sinnes and twentie yeares for veniall sinnes tottes quoties The praier with the indulgence is to be found in a booke printed at Paris no longer agoe then in anno 1534. fol. 85. in horis sanctae virginis What face then hath this proctor for the Popes pardons to affirme that the Pope neuer tooke vpon him by pardon to remit deadlie sinne But now let vs consider his reasons how he prooueth that the Popes pardons doe not properlie import remission of any deadlie crime c. Since the institution of the sacrament of penance no man can forgiue deadlie sinne without confession of the partie and purpose to satisfie the iustice of God Here are three positions assumed without proofe alwaies denied of vs namelie the institution of the sacrament of penance the necessitie of Popish confession or of the purpose of satisfying the iustice of God which no man can satisfie in any part but onelie Christ hath fullie satisfied the same for vs and therefore it is open blasphemie to saie that God can not forgiue a man his sinnes except he be willinglie to suffer due correction therefore For Christ hath once suffered for vs and found eternall redemption That God requireth repentance in them that receiue forgiuenes of sinnes beeing of discretion that is such as heare the worde and beleeue it is not so to be vnderstood as though God were restrained of his power by the impenitencie of man but that God giueth repentance to all such as whose sinnes he forgiueth For except he conuert vs we cannot repent Therefore it is a presumptuous saying to affirme that god cannot because he is righteous forgiue a man without he be penitent For his righteousnes is thoroughlie satisfied in Christ before we were borne And if it be his pleasure to forgiue a man his sinnes he will also giue him repentance and faith to apprehend Christ to his iustification But the Pope who is not able to giue repentance is no more able to forgiue sinnes If this matter hang as you saie vpon the necessitie of the sacrament of penance and confession to a Priest neither of both those necessities beeing prooued it hangeth in the aire and is concluded without proofe Now if God onelie by the ministerie of
som Bishops that were to easie in graunting reconciliation to greeuous offenders partlie to meete with the hyporisie of manie sinners which vpon hope to be easily receiued made lesse account to become offenders cast out of the Church Andhereof came those seuere canons of the Ancyrane councell which were soone afterward somwhat mitigated in the Nicen councell and charge giuen to the Bishop to deale more gently with them that shewed great tokens of repentance before their time of penance expired Abomnibus verò illud praecipué obseruetur vt animus eorum fructus poenitentiae attendatur But let this be chiefelie obserued of all men that their minde and their fruite of repentance be considered Wherby they declare for what cause such time of penance was prescribed namelie by the fruites of repentance to make triall whether men were truelie penitent for their sinnes and meete to be receaued againe into the congregation or no. The councell of Carthage aster that perceiuing manie inconueniences to arise by those certaine prescript times of penance decreed Vt poenitentibus secundùm peccatorum differentias episcopi arbitrio poenitentiae tempora decernantur That times of repentance by the discretion of the Bishop should be appointed vnto them that doe penance according to the differences of their sinnes but that there remaineth for the satisfying of Gods iustice some temporall scourge after eternall paines by deadlie sinnes deserued be forgiuen with the sinnes themselues we know not out of the scriptures but the contrarie namelie that these sinnes being forgiuen and Gods iustice throughlie satisfied in Christ there remaineth no temporall punishment due for the sinnes forgiuen but sometimes a mercifull and fatherly chastisment which is not in anie mans power to release or remit but when it pleaseth the father of his wisdome and clemency to take it awaie ALLEN And therefore S. Augustine saith of the Churches vsage in prescribing penance thus Sed neque de ipsis criminil us quamlibet magnis remittendis in Sancta Ecclesia Dei desperanda est misericordia agentibus poenitentiam secundùm modum sui cuiusque peccati auia plerunque dolor alterius cordis occultus est alteri rectè constituuntur ab iis qui Ecclesiae praesunt tempora poenitentiae vt fiat etiam satis Ecclesiae in qua peccata remittuntur Euen for sinnes being neuer so greeuous and great we maie not dispaire of Gods mercie nor of reneission to be had in the Church marie alwaies presupposed that the offenders must doe penance according to the quantitie and greeuousnes of their offences And because often it chaunceth that the sorrow of mans hart wherein much standeth is vnknowne to other men it is verie reasonable that the Church should limite their penance by her gouernour to be accomplished in certaine times and appointed seasons for the answere of the Churches right in which onelie all sinnes be remitted as out of her lappe none at al be forgiuen for any benefit to the partie So saith this doctour of publike penance And of secret satisfaction which nowe is more vsed after confession lest anie man should feare that that were not sufficient to satisfie for the remnant of debt due for mortall sinnes forgiuen thus saith the author of that booke de Eccles. dogm set forth with Saint Augustines name Sed secreta satisfactione solui mortalia crimina non negamus Neither we doe denie but mortall sinnes maie be loosed by secret satisfaction Feare nos the worde satisfaction as though it derogated anie thing to the redemption which is in Christ Iesus It is here and in manie places of S. Augustines workes most common and no lesse vsed of all Catholike writers since Christes time who knew right well that the fruites of Christian penance done in the vertue and force of Gods grace doe applie Christes satisfaction effectuallie to our benefit and not remooue the vse therof from vs. But they haue a faith so solitarie now a daies that it will alpne apprehend what ye list and reach so farre into Christes iustice that her fautors shall haue no need of Christian workes or fruitfull repentance FVLKE Saint Augustine saith to verie good purpose but nothing to the maintenance of your purpose for which you alledge him namelie that temporall punishment is due to Gods iustice for sinne remitted whose saying I maruell why you do so geld that you recite it not whollie as he hath written but that either you would not haue men certainlie know that he speaketh of open penance done for great crimes committed or else you haue cited the place of some other mans credit rather then of your owne reading After he hath said that some man maie liue without crime but no man without sinne his wordes be these Sed neque deipsis criminibus quamlibet magnis remittendis in sancta Ecclesia Dei desperanda est misericordia agentibus poenitentiam secundùm modum sui cuiusque peccati In actione autem poenitentiae vbitae lecrimen commissum est vt is qui commisit a Christi etiam corpore separetur noÌ„tam consideranda est mensura temporis quà m doloris cor enim contritum humiliatum Deus non spernit Verùm quia pierunque dolor â—lterius cordis occultus est alteri neque in aliorum notitiam per verba vel quaecunque alia signa procedit cùm sit coram illo cui dicitur gemitus meus à le noÌ„ est absconditus rectè constituuntur ab iis qui Ecclesiae praesunt tempora poenitentiae vt fiat etiam satis Ecclesiae in qua remittuntur ipsa peccata extra eam quippe non remittuntur Ipsa namque propriè Spiritum Sanctum pignus accepit sine quo non remittuntur vlla peccata ita vt quibus dimittuntur consequantur vitam aeternam But neither of those crimes be they neuer so great to be remitted in the holy Church the mercie of God is to be dispaired of to them that repent according to the measure of euery mans sinne But in the doing of penance where such a crime is committed that he which hath committed it is also to be separated from the bodie of Christ the measure of time is not so much to be considered as of the sorrowe for God dispiseth not a contrite and an humbled heart But because often times the sorrow of one mans heart is hidden to an other and commeth not into the knowledge of other men by wordes or other signes whatsoeuer although it be knowne before him to whome it is said my groning is not hid from thee there be rightlie appointed by them that gouerne the Church times of repentance that the Church also maie be satisfied in which those sinnes are remitted for whithout they are not remitted For she hath properlie receaued the pledge of the holie Ghost without whome no sinnes are remitted so that they to whome they are remitted doe obtaine eternall life In these wordes Saint Augustine sheweth plainely that times of penance or repentance were enioyned
him for neither Saint Paull Saint Cyprian nor the councell of Nice graunted such pardons to such persons and for such causes as he doth therefore he followeth not their example but his owne presumption Yet let vs see how this argument is fortified First the paine prescribed by law he maie release because he is the principall executor of the law But who will allow him anie such principalitie in the Church that is no member of the same Secondlie he maie remit the pennance enioyned by the Priest because he is superiour to all piestes which is nothing but a miserable begging of that which is in controuersie The like is to be said of his changing of penance whereby he challengeth the like authority Although his changing of sharpe pe nance into easie paiment doth bewray what is the end of such permutation money is intended whatsoeuer is pretended Vrbanus the 2. in the councell of Claremounte exhorting men of al nations to the warre of Ierusalem began that release of penance for seruing in that cause which his successours afterward haue vsed as a gaie and gainfull pretense when they were disposed to enrich their coffers and mantaine their priuate quarrels ALLEN The like they do also often to set forward other workes of charitie to the benefit of Gods people as for the relieuing of Hospitals of Churches of high waies and such like Sometimes againe they extende their power which Christ gaue them to edifie his Church and increase religion and deuotion in the people as when thy giue pardon for so manie daies to such as shall receiue the blessed Sacrament faste and praie that heresie maie cease in the Church that the enemies of Christianitie maie not preuaile that infidels Iewes and heretikes maie be conuerted and Schismatikes knit them-selues obedientlie to the fellowship of Chistes folde So doth the Pope for the encrease of zelous deuotion and aduancing Gods honour giue daies of remission or full pardon to such as shall vsuallie haue meditations of Christes passion and death by certaine holie praiers appointed or by visiting places in which there be seene some liuelie sieppes memories and expresse tokens of Christe miraculous workes or his Saintes Thus to helpe vp the dulnesse of praying and seruing God in our daies he geueth grace and pardon to such as shall freauent the Churches at the times of their dedication or on certaine principall Feastes there either to be confessed and receiue the 〈◊〉 sacrament or els to ioyne in praier and deuotion with other the faithful people that thither at those daies haue principall recourse Hereof we haue example not onelie in the storie of the institution of the solemne Feast of Corpus Christi but also in the great generall councell holden at Laterane For this cause also and the like maintenance of holie praier by which the Church of God moste standeth hath he mercifully with singular wisdome giuen a pardon of certaine daies or years to such as should deuoutlie occupie such beades books or praiers in all which things orderlie giuen reuerentlie receiued I see not what can be reprehended of anie but such as are offended with all workes and waies of mercie charitie and deuotion The power and iurisdiction is prooued lawfull the causes why he should exercise his authoritie herein be verie vrgent Gods honour with the peoples commodite exceeding well respected all thinges here do edify and nothing at all destroy all things do stande by good reason nothing can be reprooued either with rea son or good religion FVLKE You tell vs what the Pope doth but neither by what authoritic of the holie scriptures nor by what example of the holie auncient Church He could neuer sit in the Temple of God boasting him-selfe to be God except he had some religious colour to blinde the eies of the world which submitteth vnto his antichiristan power And yet all the world knoweth that monie obtained for hospitalles Churches beades bookes and such baggage all the pardons in a manner that haue beene graunted As for the pretense of setting forward the workes of charitie fasting praing c. is not onelie hypocriticall but also wicked For neither men muste be hired to the workes of charitie and other Christian exercises by pardon of their punishments but exhorted and charged for the loue of God and vpon their duties neither should a sale be made of that which ought to be freelie graunted if the Church had such authoritie For freely saith he you haue receiued therefore freely you ought to giue Therefore though you cannot see in this filthy nundination what is to be reprehended we can see nothing that can be defended where neither the power is proued lawfull nor the causes reasonable nor the end godlie whatsoeuer is pretended nor meanes by the worde of God or example of the Pimitiue Church allowable That not onelie the penance enioyned in the sacrament otherwise by canonicall correction but also such paine as God him selfe prouideth for sinne may be released by the Popes Pardons and that Purgatorie paines may especiallie be preuented by the same remissions THE 7. CHAP. ALLEN BVt now because some may by course of our matter looke that I should declare whether the Popes Pardons may release any whit of that paine which God himselfe putteth the penttent vnto after his sinnes be forgiuen I must somewhat stand hereupon the cause is weightie and much misliked of our aduersaries and some other perchance to that see not so farre into the matter as they should doe before they giue anie iudgement thereof That the gouernours of the Church should remit Canonicall correction and priuse satisfaction with the bonde of penance either enioyned or els which by the lawes spirituall might be enioyned manie will confesse But that their power should reach to the remitting of that paine which Gods hand hath laied vpon the offender of temporall correction that they vnderstand not Truely for this they must be instructed first that the temporall punishment which God taketh on sinners that be penitent though it standeth by the law of nature aud was practized of the laws of nature and was practized of God himselfe before anie mans lawes were made for puuishment of sinnes yet now it riseth prin cipallie vpon lack of punishing of our selues or the accomplishing of such penance as the Church of God prescribeth For if the Church punish her childrens faults by sharpe discipline doubtles it satisficeth Gods righteousnesse and he will not punish bis in id ipsum twise for one fault or if man earnestlie and sufficientlie iudge him-selfe God hath promised by S. Paul that he will not iudge him also that is to saie that he will not correct him with more heauie discipline of this life or the life to come for that signifieth this word iudicare as the Apostle him-selfe doth interpret it Then it followeth that the bond of anie temporall punishment to be inflicted by God him-selfe doth not now binde man otherwise then for the
Purgatory could not at al belong to the iurisdiction of the Church nor 〈◊〉 person therein yet in the life of the party some peece of the debt thereof oral may be released afore hand whiles the partie is in the power of the Church and her discipline ad so it must needs be at euerie time that the Church pardoneth the partie of all satisfaction or anic portion there of recompensing the same by application of Christes satisfaction and his saints For the bond of Purgatory riseth as I haue said vpon some satisfaction and penance to be fulfilled or done in this life the which 〈◊〉 bue either by our paines accomplished to the satisfying of Gods righteausnes or o therwise pardoned there is no debt or bond of purgatorie at all the which is so cancelled by thy Church our Mother that it can not be required of God our father FVLKE The Popish Church 〈◊〉 more sabtillie if shee take not vpon her at all either directlie or indirectlie to heale bodilie sicknes by pardons not because men can not iudge so well for what cause they are laid vpon the diseased but because shee knoweth right well that though shee may in the darke bregg of such a matter yet hath shee in deede no such power nor authoritie neither in the fortaken or reprobate nor in any of Gods elect But the bonde of Purgatorie where of there is neither argument nor experience shee may be bolde to deale with al at her pleasure either in preuenting or releasing Wherein I maruell you make the matter so deintie seeing it is holden on 〈◊〉 side that the Pope hath authoritie by his pardon 〈◊〉 onelie to release some out of the paines of purgatorie but also to spoile all Purgatorie and to leaue it 〈◊〉 Your example of the paines of hell that can not neither by God nor man be helped or released hath an instance in your owne schoole of the Emperour Traiane eased of hell paines at the praier of Saint Gregorie if the tole be true Beside Augustinus de Ancona disputeth earnestlie that the Pope hath power in hell to mitigate or release the paines of the damned or at the lest of some of them and that the Church praieth for that ende Wherfore you agree not with your fellowes nor with the Popish Church which praieth for the deade vt liberentur de ore Leonis de profundo lacu that they be deliuered from the mouth of the Lion and from the deepe lake But be it as you saie yet your argument of the similitude of hell and Purgatorie is of no force because we know certainlie by the scriptures that there is hell but Purgatorie we finde not in the holie scriptures as Saint Augustine saith of any third place But by the scripture we finde the ende wherefore Purgatorie is imagined to be forged false blasphemous against the sacrifice of Christ his death and satisfaction which was once perfectlie performed by himselfe and not committed to the application of any other man ALLEN And this mooued alwaies the Church of God diligentlie to prouide of her tender mercie toward her louing Children that they should neuer departe out of this life in any debt of penance knowing well that the residue not satisfied here should be required at their handes afore God in the next life And therefore though many yeares of penance were prescribed to all such as did notorious crimes yet there was made euer lightlie a prouiso that at the houre of their extremitie they should haue peace and pardon and the Churches blessing in the holie sacrament and so departe free from bond of the Churches discipline as far as in her laie might be also discharged of the temporall scourge in the next life as no doubt they were if their remained no other impediment in thēselues So doth Nice Councell moste mercifullie prouide and so doth Ciprian and other fathers of the Primitiue Church that saw in their high wisedome the temporall paine to come much to hang on the parties satisfaction and the bond of the Churches enioyned penance And euen at this daie prouision is also made that no penance be giuen but vpon condition of his recouerie to any man that lieth at the extremitie of death lest he depart hence Ligatus bounde as Saint Augustine tearmeth it whereby the debt of his enioyned satisfaction might be required in Purgatory And nothing in the world prooueth more the Churches doctrine of purgatory Pardons then doth the continuall concorde and moste agreeable practize of these holie acts of binding and loosing vsed in her gouernement FVLKE The auncient Church in deede not acknowledging that shee had any authority to release any punishment to be suffered after this life determined alwaies the times of Canonicall penance with the ende of mens liues as I haue shewed before now you do acknowledge no lesse But if the Church had power after men were deade to release them of any paines shee needed not to haue beene so carefull in that point as shee was willing to comfort the penitent offenders at their depar ture as for the cancelling of all debt due for the satisfying of gods righteousnes which you did ascribe vnto the Church was the proper office of our sauiour Christ who performed that most necessarie worke to our eternal benefit once for all when he did put out the handwriting that was against vs in decrees and vtterlie abolished it nayling it to his crosse Finallie if nothing in the worlde prooueth more the Popish Churches doctrine of Purgatorie and pardons then the continuall practize of binding and loosing iustlie vsed in gouernement as you doe constantlie affirme it will easilie appeare that nothing in the world can prooue at all your blaspemous heresies of Purgatorie and pardons seeing the right vse of that power can be none other then according to the authoritie graunted by our sauiour Christ of binding and loosing but neither purgatorie nor pardon out of that authoritie in any lawful forme of argument can euer be concluded howsoeuer in loose talke or scribling ignorant men may be caried awaie with the flow of wordes where there is no pitho argument How the practize of pardons of these late hundred veares differeth from the vsage of the primitiue Church and in what sense such great numbers of yeares and daies be remitted by the Popes pardons THE 8. CHAP. ALLEN BVt here we muste note some diuersitie in giuing Pardons and preuenting Purgatorie paines betwixt the primitiue Church of olde and ours of these latter hundred yeares which did moste iustlie rise vpon the alteration of ment manners state of things For in the primitiue Church enioyned penance was so large for euery mortal crime that it might seeme verie answerable vnto the nature of the faulte And doubtlesse it may not otherwise be thought but the spirit of God did limitate satisfaction by the Canons as agreeable in all pointes to the debt of sinnes forgiuen which God
that they haue any such power of healing bodelie diseases It is a better reason that you alledge out of Saint Augustine that remission of sinnes in the Church respecteth the iudgement to come but that he speaketh there of any temporal iudgement after this life you are not able to prooue Neither doth the citing of the text of Saint Paull I. Cor. II. helpe you which he citeth to prooue that temporall paines are laide vpon men in this life to them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued to the ende as his wordes are plaine in that wholl Chapter Magis enim propter futurum iudicium fit remissio peccatorum In hac autem vita c. For remission of sins ie made rather for the iudgement to come For in this life it preuaileth so much which is written a heauie yoke vpon the sons of Adam from the daie of their comming forth of their mothers wombe vnto the day of their buriall into the mother of all thus we see euen litle children after the lauer of regeneration to be tormented with the affliction of diuerse euills that we may vnderstand that all which is doue by the healthfull sacraments doth pertaine rather to the hope of good thinges to come then to reteining or obteining things present Manie euills also seeme to forgiuen heere and to be reuenged with no punishments but the paines of them are reseruea vntill afterwarde For not in vaine is that called properlie the daie of iudgement when the iudge of the quicke and the deade shall come As on the contrarie side some things are reuenged heere and yet if they be remitted verilie in the worlde to come they shall not hurt Wherfore of certaine temporall paines which are laid vppon sinners in this life in them whose sinnes are done awaie that they should not be reserued vnto the ende the Apostle saieth for if we iudged our selues we should not be iudged of the Lord but when we are iudged of the Lord we are chastened that we should not be damned with this worlde Thus it is plaine by Saint Augustines iudgement that Saint Paull speaketh of temporall paines laied vppon sinners in this life to bring them to repentance not of temporal iudgement to be exercised after this life But you meane not that Popes or Bishops pardons should alwaies take away bodelie sicknes because Christ did not so vnto ai Nay rather because they are not able to heale a sore finger in any one man For Christ healed as many as he would if the Pope haue Christs power why should he not as well heale whome he will Your similitude that as Christ tooke away temporall paines so may Popes and priests holdeth not for there is great odds betweene Christ and his seruants he did what he would they may doe no more then he hath giuen chem power and charge And for releasing of times of repentance appointed to satisfie the Church they may by power giuen from him but for the releasing of debt to be paied in the world to come he gaue them neither authority nor cōmaundement That the priest doth dailie heale in your sacrament of aneling it is an impudent lie For first they anoint none in their dailie practize but such as are in dispaire of life of whom if any recouer by the wilof God it is sacriledge to impure it to the power of the priests anointing who hauenot the gift of healing as the elders of the Apostles Church had whome S. Iames willeth to be sent for to heale the diseased ALLEN But in Saint Paull we haue inuincible proofe of the authoritie and iurisdiction of Bishops and princivali pastcurs touching as well the power of enioyned pename and satisfaction for sinnes committed as the lawfull power of pardoning the same which before was enioyned and so in one fact of the Apostle a cleare practize of binding and loosing He first bound him by excommunication that had so greeuouslie offended and to shew what a terrible torment this kinde of panishment is and how much it is to be dred he maketh it euident by a slraunge corporall vexation that all Chrillian men might conceiue the miserie of those persons which be excommunicated hereafter when the externall signe and miraculous torment should ceasse in the Church I wili reporte the matter fullie There was amongst the Corinthians one of reputation that kept vnlawfullie his fathers wife the which being knowne to their Apostle Saint Paul who then was absent srom them and being accounted of him as in deede it was an exceeding grieuous fact and notorious he gaue in charge to the Church of Corinth to take the person that had so offended as excommunicated that is to saie to be separated from the sacraments the seruice and common fellowship of Saints But see with what a maiestie and might of operation with what force of wordes and authoritie of his calling with what a kinde of punishment Christes officer here correcteth the offender Thus runneth his determinate sentence on the offender that all the worlde may take heede and wonder at the Churches authoritie and condemne the vaine voices of them that doe restraine the power of Gods ministers onelie to the preaching of the Gospell I beeing absent in bodie but present in spirit haue alreadie giuen iudgement as well as if I were present that the person that hath thus wickedlie wrought should be deliuered vpto Sathan in the vertue of our Lorde Christ Iesus you there being gathered with my spirit in the name of our said Lord Christ Iesus and all for the vexation of his flesh that his soull may be safe in the daie of our Lord Iesus Christ. This in effect is the Apostles sentence on that incestuous person wherby he was temporallie tormented by the force of Saint Pauls power of binding sinners giuen by Christ and exercised no otherwise as you may see but in Christs vertue holie name Where it may be noted for a strange 〈◊〉 of mans word that the deuill himse fe should be therby appointed to torment a sinners bodie not as he would but as far as the diuine Magistrate shall limit him Diabolus enim quia ad hoc paratus est vt auerses à Deo 〈◊〉 in potestatem audita sententia corripit eos The 〈◊〉 saith Saint Ambrose who is alwaies readie to take them to his power that are turned from God sireight as soone as he heareth the sentence pronounced vpon sinners he doth afflict and correct them As it may also appeere by our Sauiours wordes in the Gospell of a woman that had spiritum infirmitatis the spirit of infirmitie whome the deuill had eighteene yeares together fast bound in sickenes for her sinnes to whome also Christ gaue a pardon by imposition of his holie handes Where we may haue an other example of his mercie in loosing the temporall band and punishment appointed for sinne But let vs turne to Saint Pauls patient whome we left by the key of the
Apostles iurisdiction so fast locked and bound for his wickednes and let vs consider whether by the sime iurisdiction he may not receiue pardon and be loosed by which he was bound and punished before Yea let vs not doubt but it stoode in Pauis pleasure to padon the man sooner or later as he thought moste conuenient for the Churches edifying and the parties profit and therefore might haue tied him for twenty yeares together either in Sathans bondes or other enioyned penance or conirarie if he had thought expedient might haue loosed him within one houre and so haue giuen him so many daies of pardon as he list and ment to recompence by Christes satisfaction and the communion of Saintes in which the lackes of certeine may be supplied by the abundance of others Thus Saint Paul meaning to pardon the penitent giueth the Church of Corinth to vnderstand his pleasure touching the saide sinner that there stoode in the bandes of penance vpon his former sentence Lot his 〈◊〉 and checke giuen him of many be enough And now rather it were expedient that you did forgiue him and comfort him lest perhapps he be drowned 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 with excessiue sorow Therefore 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 renew and confirme your loue towardes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mooue you in this matter to prooue 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 you be obedien in all things And where you 〈◊〉 there doe I forgiue also In deede as for me 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 it is for your sake and in the person of 〈◊〉 that we be not circumuented of the deuill whose meaning in such matters I well vnderstande That you 〈◊〉 did the Apostle punish and thus did he remie againe 〈◊〉 the moderation of the Churchs discipline in his 〈◊〉 so far as his iurisdiction did extend amongest Christes people whose obedience in all such matters be claimed as you may perceiue by his owne wordes yet not without great respect and consideration of the offenders case and especiall care of the Churches edifying For full 〈◊〉 Saint Augustine said In actione autem poenitentioe vbi tale crimen commissum est vt is qui commisit à Christi etiam corpore separetur non tam consideranda est mensura temporis quà m doloris In the docing of penance where the sinne is such that it deserueth excommunication there is not so much respect to be had of the time as of his sorowfullnes that committed the fact FVLKE So long as you will gather nothing but the exercise of Christian discipline in binding loosing excommunicating and absoluing inioyning of Canonicall 〈◊〉 and pardoning of the sinne out of this example of Saint Paul you haue an inuincible proofe of the authoritie or iurisdiction of the gouernours of the Church of Christ against which we will neuer contend But when you will vrge more then the text will aford you can gaine no victory at our hands As first that the deuist was is aopointed to torment the sinners bodie it is not prooued by this text And Saint Ambrose whome you cite vpon Timothic speaking of the punishments of Hymineus and Alexander who perhapes were tormented for their blasphemie doth not so thinke vpon this very text but expoundeth this deliuerie vnto Satan to the destruction of the flesh to be his casting out of the Church which is the kingdome of god into the power of Satan as one that had deserued destruction both of bodie and soule that his carnall lust might be ouer come or mortified which Saint Augustine expoundeth also in like manner and more plainelie Quidergo agebal Apostelus nisi vt per interitum carnis 〈◊〉 spiritual 〈◊〉 vt siue aliqua poena 〈◊〉 corporali sicut Ananias vxer 〈◊〉 ante pedes Apostole Petri ceciderunt siuè per 〈◊〉 quoniam Satana traditus erat interimeret in se sceleratam carnis concupisientiam quia ipse 〈◊〉 dicit 〈◊〉 membra vestia quae sunt super terram inter quae for nicationem commemorat Et iterum Si enim 〈◊〉 carnem vixeritis moriemini c. For what did the Apostle but that by destruction of the flesh he might prouide for his spirituall health that whether by some temporall paine or death as Ananias and his wife fell downe before the Apostle Peters seet or whether by repentance because he was deliuered to Sathan he might kill in himselfe the wicked concupiscence of the flesh For he saieth also Mortifie your members which are vpon earth among which he rehearseth fornication And againe for if ye shall liue according to the flesh yee shall die By this you may see the opinion of corporal torment in this discipline of S. Paul is not necessary Againe where you saie it stood in Pauls pleasure to pardon the man sooner or later and he giueth the Corinthians to vnderstād his pleasure touching the said sinner you would perswad the ignorant that the gouerners of the Church vere bound to no lawe or rule in these matters but might doe what pleased them Although in the former you mittigate the matter by adding as he thought moste conuenient for the Churches edisying and the parties profit which is well said if by his thought you meane a sounde and right iudgement For the matter is not left to euerie man thinking more then to their pleasure but to a Godlie and necessarie consideration And therefore it stood not in Paulles pleasure to pardon the man sooner then he sawe in him the fruites of repentance nor later then he had certaine intelligence thereof Neither might he haue tied him for twentie yeares but vpon condition to release him immediatlie vpon his true repentance neither haue loosed him within an hower except within the space of that hower he had sufficient arguments of his repentance and satisfaction of the Churches offence and iudgement The reasons that he alledgeth why he iudged him now to be pardoned doe shewe no lesse lest he be swallowed vp by too much sorrowe lest we be intercepted by Sathan It was not lawfull for the Apostle to suffer the penitent to be ouercome with too much sorrowe not the Church to be circumuented by Satan Therefore it was not lawfull for him to haue differred his loosing anie longer As for the recompencing by Christs satisfaction the communion of Saints which is the blasphemous dispensation of the imaginarie treasure of the popish Church is not mentioned in this text nor in anie text of the bible nor in anie auncient Father but was lathe deuised to set a glosse vpon the popes pardons and practizes in purgatorie In the end you saie well both that the Apostle had great respect of the offenders case and care of the Churches edifying which prooueth that without neglecting that consideration and care he might not sooner or later haue loosed him nor tied him otherwise then he did And the saying of Augustine doth prooue wel that the prescript times of penance limited before his age were not so conuenient as the liberty of time where in the parties repentance might be iudged best as
after his wordes set dowen in the section last before in which he speaketh neither of the deserts of the liuing nor of the deade able to answere his iustice for other but altogether of the mercie of god which taketh occasion euen of his loue which he beareth towards his Saints that are departed to shew compassion vpon them that are aliue this for his couenants sake although Chrysostome seemeth to speake of the intercession of them that are departed which yet prooueth no merit or satisfaction For to become an humble suter for a benefit or a pardon is not to deserue a benefit or to satisfie for an offenders trespace And this benefit he giueth saieth Saint Cyrill vpon this text vnto the memorie of holie men that sometime he forgetteth the euills which their posteritie haue committed To the like effect speaketh Saint Hierome that which God giueth of his mercie is no merit or satisfaction to his iustice ALLEN And suerlie if in the daies of olde where neither so much grace nor mercie was to be found nor Christ which is the fountaine of all pardon was not yet offered vp to paie the debtes of his brethren sinnes nor the communion of Saint was yet so fullie established whereby the merits of one might redound to an other nor the Church so honoured with the gift of Gods spirite for remission of mans offences nor the priesthood of God so credited with the keies of the kingdome if afore all these things were no otherwise wrought but in base figurse such waies were found out and that by Gods owne procurement of mercie and grace in the midest of intoyned penance and punishment what neede we to doubt but their now be many meanes made in this happie societie of Saints so to remit the bond of satisfaction to some that Gods iustice maie be answered againe by other of this happie household in the aboundance of their holy workes which the Church holdeth moste holilie for to be a perfect and euerlasting treasure to satisfie Gods righteousnes and procure mercie to the needie which by loue zeale deuotion do deserue the same If God remitted of olde temporall paine vnto his people at the call of Moses and Aaron and for his childe Dauids sake that was dead what will not he mercifullie forgiue by our high priests procurements whose pardons and punishments Christ hath solemnlie promised he woulde ratifie and allowe in heauen aboue What will he not do in respect of the paines and aboundant passions of his own childe Iesus that hath yet in the Catholike Church his death so duely represented for the remission of our daily debts what can be denied to the intercession of so manie Saints to the chast combate of so manie Virgins to the bloodie fight of so manie Martyrs to the stout standing of so manie Confessours what mercie maie not the Church craue and doubtles obteine for anie of ber children either in penance ' in this world or in paine in the next that hath in her treasure such abundance of satisfaction first in our head Christ Iesus through whose gratious workes all other mens paines are become beneficiall either to themselues or their bretheren and then in the store of al holy saints trauilles not yet wasted in procuring mercie for others besides moe waies of grace and remission that our mother the Church hath in readines to relieue her children that doe continue in her happie lappe and in the societie of her communion with humble submission of themselues to the powers ordeined of Christ for the gouernment of their soules with request for this pardon at their handes to whome be giuen the bestowing and disposing of the inestimable treasure of so blessed a ministerie FVLKE The grace and mercie of God in Iesus Christ was as largelie to be found for the saluation of his people in the daies of olde as in these daies Iesus Christ was yesterdaie and to daie is the same and for euermore And the Lambe was slaine from the beginning of the worlde as touching the effect of his death vnto all Gods elect and the communion of the Saints was as fullie established to the receiuing of al vertue of life from Christ their heade and to the mutuall seruice of loue and ministring of gods gifts one to another but not to merite at all either for themselues or for other Such meriting is dishonorable to the heade from whome euerie member receaueth life and all power and offices thereof ac cording to the measure of euerie member to the encrease and building vp of the wholl bodie in loue The Church of olde had also the ministerie of remission of sinnes and the keies of the kingdome of heauen and that not in base figures onelie but insufficient effect to the euerlasting saluation of Gods people And therefore to saie that all these things were none otherwise wrought but in base figures is to denie the saluation of all the fathers that died before the incarnation of Christ. For base figures could haue but base effectes base figures could not worke eternall life The ministerie figures of the law separated from Christ are in deede the weake and beg gerlie elements of the worlde but beeing referred to Christ and made effectuall by his death through faith in the partakers they are of the same power and riches vnto euerlasting saluation that the ministerie and sacraments of the new Testament But admit that nothing was wrought to them but in base figures yet it followeth not that after the incarnation and actuall death of Christ there should be any more meanes to remit the bond of satisfaction by answering Gods iustice then in that onelie sacrifice obedience and suffring of Christ or that the Church should haue such a store house of mans merites to satisfie Gods righteousnes or that men by loue zeale and deuotion may deserue Gods mercie these popish positions can neuer be prooued Againe whatsoeuer God remitted at the praier of Moses and Aaron and for his couenant made with Dauid or whatsoeuer he gaue to the memorie of that holie man he remitted and gaue for Iesus Christs sake in whome onelie his iustice was satisfied and he well pleased But your high priest with his Antichristian pardons and punishments which are grounded vpon the merites of men or coloured with the merites of Christ which yet are rent and rorne from the effect of his death Christ will destroy with the breath of his mouth and abolish with his glorious appearing For the death and passion of his sonne Iesus Christ God wil be merciful to his seruants that by faith take holde of the power of his death but neither by masses nor pardons doth he bestow the vertue thereof The good workes and sufferings of the saintes be examples of vertue and patience not merits or gifts of righteousnes The death of Christ answering Gods iustice and reconciling vs to his fauour hath made that good workes of his saintes which are the giftes of his grace
the head of the house But if he will saie this other man was no frier then he must shewe what he was whoe was the testator what fraude Luther and his Prior vsed to deceiue him and bring good proofe thereof or els who is bound to beleeue him But to goe forward other estate or degree or Apostleshippe he knoweth not that Luther had anie what then was not this sufficient calling for him that was a Doctor of the Popish Church to preach against the abuses and errors thereof and when his doctrine and conclusions were vndoubtedly agreeable to the holie scriptures might he not iustlie affirme that they were from heauen And that he was sent from heauen to teach the Germanes the trueth of the Gospell which of long time had beene hidden from them For that he was their first Apostle or that before his daies they neuer had any true religion or Christian doctrine he neuer said Neither did he make more account of himselfe then of Saint Augustine and all other Fathers of the Church although in the booke quoted by Frarine he preferreth that doctrine which is agreeable to the holie scriptures before the iudgement of Augustine and all men that euer were As for the familiar conference and talke with the Deuill which Frarine affirmeth that he reporieth of himselfe And that Cocleus and al his enemies doe gnaw so much vpon to prooue that he was set on by the Deuil to gainesaie the masse Is nothing but a ridiculous cauill For Luther speaketh of a spirituall conflict that he had with Sathan for saying masse so long which at length he acknowledged to be blasphemous against the death of Christ. Not of any bodelie appeerance of the Deuill or familiar talke with him as the malice of the Papists doe expound him Next Luther our Orator will examine Caluins vocation Caluine saith he was borne at Nouiodunum in Picardie What of that He was banished from his countrie for his wicked behauiour That is false For he liued in his countrie in good credit both of learning and honestie till the crueltie of the Papists caused him to seeke the libertie and profession of religion abroad which he could not haue at home That he was the veriest vnthrist naughtiest varlet of all his companions when he was in his countrie is an impudent slaunder for at Orleans he red the lawe lecture oftentimes in the place of Petrus Stella the publike reader and was so well accounted both for his learning and vertue that the degree of Doctorship in that facultie with full consent of all the teachers was offered him without anie expences as one that had verie well deserued of the vniuersitie Afterward at Paris he set forth that notable commentary of his of Seneca de Clementia He was of great familiaritie with Nicolaus Copus Rector of the vniuersitie of Paris and in good credit with the Queene of Nauarre sister vnto King Frauncis He had conference with Iacobus Faber Stapulensis in Aquitanes and after he had set forth that worthie booke of his called Psychopanuchia at Orleans against them which taught that the soules departed doe sleepe vntill the resurrection without sense of good or euill he came to the Citie of Basill This course of his life as it is written in his storie with much more to this effect doth witnes that he was euen from his youth a man indued with singuler modestie temperance and godlines whatsoeuer his aduersaries without all proofe or shewe of truth are not ashamed to inuent and brute against him When he was at Basill he did not hide his head as the slaunderer saieth but desired in deed to be priuate that he might better applie his studies and especiallie the Hebrew tongue But such was his excellencie that he could not be hid from the principall learned men of that vniuersitie and so litle was he hid that there he first set forth his Institution dedicated to King Frauncis Our declaimer saith that from Basile he passed to Strasburg and there began to shew his head and preach to the Runnagats But that is false for from Basill he went into Italie to visit the Duchesse of Ferrara from whence he returned into Fraunce where hauing set all his affaires in order he brought away his onely brother AntonieCaluine intending to settle him selfe either at Basill or at Strasburg But al other passages being stopt he was forced to trauaile thorough Sauoye and comming to Geneua onely to visite Farellus and Viretus by whose zealous earnest labours Popery being banished and the Church there reformed he was staied by the terrible obtestation of Farellus and by the Presbyterie and Magistrates chosen to be a teacher and intepreter of the Scriptures in that Church But that he put out the deputie of the citie expelled the Bishops and Popish cleargie reigned there like a conquerour by the law of ireason and force of armes as Frarine saieth it is a moste impudent lie though an hundred Lindanes had sworne that it was true For the Bishoppe with his Popish cleargie was departed out of the citie and the Religion reformed by publike authoritie receiued long time before Caluines first arriuall thether Of like trueth it is that Beza in his baudie and filthie epigrames as it pleaseth Frarine to call them farre passeth the wanton Pagan Poetes Martiall and Tibullus For in the moste licentious of these epigrames first condemned by Beza himselfe there is not one word of obscenitie although they were made in a fained argument after the immitation of those Poets And if they had bin as full of baudie tearmes and matters as Martiall himselfe Yet so long as Beza cōtinued in popery where they were freely printed selde they were catholike enough What should I speake saith he of Bernardinus Ochinus the preacher of Polygamie Verelie there is no cause why he should speake of him seeing both the man and the doctrine are detested in our Churches and by our writings confuted He nameth also Bernard Rotman and Iohn of Leyd authors of the Anabaptisticall sedition at Monster as though wee had any thing to doe with them Yes saith he they conquered the field against the Lutheranes by pretence of scripture onelie as Rotman before vanquished the Papists The storie is written who list to reade wherein may be found they vsed other craftes beside force of armes then pretence of scripture onelie to compasse their diuelish attempts And what if they had vsed the pretence of scripture onelie as the diuel did in tempting our sauiour Christ was the scripture onelie of lesse force to confute their false pretence then when it was vsed by our Sauiour Christ against the Deuill He telleth vs of Hosiander reprooued of vs for heresie of Carolostadius who thorough folly madnes became a ploughnian The names also of Peter Martyr Illiricus Musculus Farellus Viretus and Bucer a gainst whom he hath nothing to say besides I know not what Marote Malote And that these should vsurpe
the Church the glosse thinketh that it should be in vaine if it should serue vs to no purpose as though if any such thing were might stand with Gods iustice it might not serue to set forth the glorie and riches of Christes incarnation Ad hereunto that the ouerplus were needeles for vs if the value of one drop be sufficiēt for the perfect redemption of the whol world it might also be sufficient to take away all temporall paine But if we should further admit that there were such a treasure of the Church who made the Pope generall stewarde of it and other Bishops to haue so small a portion of so infinite a treasure You answere that Saint Paull saith that Christ left to his Vicar generall and other his holie appointed ministers the beslowing of Gods mysteries But Saint Paull speaketh of no Vicar generall but of all Gods ministers which be not onelie bishops I trow that they be stewardes of his mysteries which mysteries are his holie word and sacraments or if this treasure were parte of them the dispensation of it perteineth to priests as well as vnto Bishoppes To proceede this treasure beeing so plentifull as you saie no man notwithstanding may claime the benefit of it otherwise then through such meanes as God hath appointed and by the ministrie of the man that he hath appointed But neither this treasure nor the meanes nor the man are appointed of God as farre as we can learne out of his written worde neither is the Pope any such steward to whome Christ would commit the keies of so inestimable a treasure which considereth not the worthines of the person but of the price which he receiueth for his pardons as the greatest practize of them hath beene euer since they were inuented Againe if the offendour be meete and of good congruitie worthie of grace and mercie what neede any peece of his treasure to be laide out aboute him for Gods iustice is as much bounde vnto congruitie as vnto condignitie Neither can he deny pardon to any that in any respect is worthie to receiue it sauing that grace is no grace where their is the worthines of the partie to deserue it but the rewarde is accounted according to debt and not according to grace ALLEN And such a perfect knot there is now since Christes incarnation of euerie member in Christes mysticall bodie which is the Church and companie of faithfull with him beeing the heade of the said bodie that his merites workes suffering and satisfaction maie well be applied to serue and supplie all wantes of ech member thereof yea more then that the holie suffering and tribulation of holie Saintes as of our blessed Ladie Christes mother and the holie Apostles with numbers of constant Martirs Confessours and Virgines helpe to supplie our lack also and encrease the huge treasure of the Church for the satisfying for our sinnes which yet notwithstanding as they were meritorious to the sufferers be fullie rewarded by the glorie of Christes kingdome and eternall felicitie which farre exceedeth not onelie the merites of all Saintes but sufficientlie rewardeth the incomparable humilitie and obedience of Christ to his father in suffering death vpon the crosse though his workes as they be satisfactorie for vs are not yet answered in vs nor can not be till the worldes end ALLEN That knot of communication of the benefites of Christes death was as effectuall before his incarnation as since although it became effectual by meanes of his incarnation euen as the effect of his death extended to the saluation of his elect before his death But you doe well to follow your author at the harde heeles the writer of that glauering glosse vpon Pope Bonefacius Bull which immediately aster the words by me last cited addeth Nam propter vnionem capitis membrorum meritum capitis attribuitur membris quia sic per alienum meritun non per proprium meritum liberantur à poena ideo quantum ad ipsos talis liberalior dicitur remissio seu indulgentia licet quoad Christum qui hoc nobis meruit vocetur redemptio copiosa For because of the vnion of the heade and the members the merit of the head is attributed and applied vnto the members and because they are so deliuered from paine by the merit of an other and not by their owne merit therefore in respect of themselues such deliuerance is called a remission or pardon although in respect of Christ which deserued this for vs it is called a plentifull redemption We know that by meanes of the vnion of the head vnto the members the redemption wrought by the head perteineth to the members but the application thereof is by the spirit of God and not by the Popes pardon or any ministrie of man in speaking properlie which extendeth no further then the outwarde senses in speaking the worde of God to the hearing in washing with water or deliuering the bodelie foode in signe of baptizing with the holie ghost and feeding with the bodie and blood of Christ. But more than that you saie the holie suffrings and tribulation of Saints doe helpe to supplie our lacke and increase the huge treasure of the Church Your wordes found as though your meaning were that the suffring of Saints doth more supplie our lacke then the infinite treasure of the passion of Christ. But that I may not take you at the worst you meane at the lest that they ad vnto it you say plainly they increase the treasure of the Church But you forget the infinite valure of Christes bloodwhich you spake of before which can no more receiue any increase then it can be diminished for there is no proportion of that which is infinite tò that which is finit But if the treasure of the Church which is infinite by Christs merit may be made greater by the merit of Saints which are finit then the quantitie thereof must be greater by so much or so manie partes as are added and so there shall be proportion of finit to infinite or ells the treasure of Christs merit shall not be infinite This grosse and impossible absurditie therefore came in after the first deuise of the Churches infinite treasure by Christs merit For Clemens the fixt which brought the Iubelie yeare from euerie hundred to euery 50. as he learned of Aug. de Ancona that liued in this time ioyneth in his bull the merits of all Saints to increase the infinite treasure of Christs merits Of what value the merits of Saints be we shall heare in the next section ALLEN And for Christ in this case our aduersaries perchance would not much sticke with vs but for the remaine of Saints satisfaction they can not abide And if Saint Paull in expresse words did not vtter this my meaning concerning the trauaile of holie Saints for Christes bodie which is his Church the litle kolie ones of these daies would haue spurned at these kinde of speaches for feare of doeing iniurie to Christ of
whose honour the good men make themselues so tender These wordes then doth Saint Paull vtter of his trauaile taken for the Churches sake Now I doe reioyce in my passions or tribulations taken for your sake and I fullfill those things that doe want of Christ passions in mine owne flesh for his bodie which is the Church Thus said Saint Paul Wherby you see that not onelie the want of one member may be supplied of the heade of the bodie but that ech member may helpe the insufficiencie of an other member Whereby for all that we may not conceiue that there is any lacke or insufficiencie on Christs parte or passion which was so full and abundant of it owne valure that by it selfe alone without the helpe of all mans merits or other creatures it was a sufficient price for the sinnes of all the worlde and moe if moe might be But the lacke that this his passion was not in effect so forcible and so fullie in all mens cases was the want of some paines and passion in his bodie the Church by which she and euerie of hers were bound to conforme them-selues vnto Christ by taking paines in their flesh and suffering together with Christ their head For so long Christes passion wanteth his due effect in vs though it were neuer so full and sufficient in it selfe as we do not conforme our selues to his paine tribulation taken for vs. Therfore though Christ in his owne person suffer now no more yet he doth suffer and dailie shall suffer till the worlds end in diuers members of his holie bodie as the heade saith Saint Augustine suffereth when the finger aketh and as Christ him selfe charged Saint Paul that he persecuted him when he onelie molested his members And so long as the Church militant trauailesh here in earth so long hath Christ our Maister somewhat to suffer to make his passion effectuall in such as shall be saued and in that sense some peece of his passion in euerie of the faithfulls bodies must be supplied By all which holie paines of the head himselfe principallia and of the holie members of his bodie who wrought not onelie for themselues but expreslie meant to benefit other by their workes as the Apostle confesseth of himselfe we neede not to doubt but the lacke of many a poore member of this blessed incorporation is dulie supplied and the want of worke satisfactorie in some recompensed by the abundance of paines and penance of others For this is the blessed cause of such as be in the Church of God in the fellowshippe of the faithfull in the knot of those members whereof our sauiour is the head that is to saie in the holie communion of Saints in which as some do lack so other some by Christs gift do abound and are able to procure mercie for the needie and to satisfie God for their poore breethrens sinnes And yet all this entercourse of benefits and mutuall helpes passeth not from the head to the members nor from one member of the bodie to another but by the ordinarie meanes of Christes appointment as by sacraments sacrifice and sundrie waies of his seruice and that not without the ministerie of men in whome he hath out the word of his reconciliation to whome he hath committed his keies to keepe his sheepe to feed his mysteries to dispose and to whome finallie he hath giuen full power both to binde and loose FVLKE Of all the auncient doctors and learned of the Church whose writinges haue come to our hands it is great maruell no one could see the increase of the Churches treasure in this texte of Saint Paull But seing they saw not all thinges let vs consider in what expresse wordes Saint Paul vttereth your meaning Where is mention of the treasure of the Church in this texte where is mention of the merit of Saintes where is mention of the remaines of Saints satisfaction ouer and aboue their owne necessitie where is mention of the wante of satisfying Gods iustice for temporall paines If there be neuer a worde of all these thinges in what expresse wordes doth Saint Paul vtter your meaning First he reioyceth in his afflictions which he suffered for their sake because they tended to the confirmation of their faith and example of Constancie Secondlie he sulfilleth those thinges that want or remaine of Christs passion in his owne bodie this argueth no insufficiencie of Christes passion you confesse for his parte but the wante of some paines in his bodie the Church so farre wee agree with you for Christ was to suffer in his members the saints and they are by suffering to be made conformable vnto him that they might reigne with him but that these sifferinges were satisfactions vnto Gods righteousnes for temporall paine to make the passion of Christ effectuall to themselues or vnto other Saint Paull saith not in expresse wordes neither shall you euer be able to prooue by a true syllogisme out of this place or anie text in the scripture that he meaneth But Saint Paull saieth he suffereth for Christes bodie which is his Church namelie to confirme the faith of the Church as all the olde Fathers doe expound it and as he doth a best expound himselfe 2. Cor. 1. 6. but to satisfic for paine not satisfied by Christes death he neuer saith ne meaneth In tribulationibus saith S. Ambrose vpon this text quas patiebatur exultare se satetur quia profectum 〈◊〉 videt in side credentium Saint Paull acknowledgeth that he reioiceth in the affictions which he suffered because he seeth his profit in the faith of the beleeuers And the words of S. Paul are plaine when he saith that he suffereth for the Church according to that dispensation which was committed vnto him which was to edifie the Church in the faith not to redeeme the Church by his sufferings S. Augustine speaking of the suffering of martyrs and the effecte of them and comparing them with the passion of Christ thus writeth Ille nobis non 〈◊〉 nos saluos saceret nos sine illo nihil possumus facere ille se nobis palmitibus praebuit vitem nos habere preter illum non possumus vitam postremo etst fratres pro fratrib moriantur tamen in fraternoruam peccatorum remissionem nullius sanguis martyris funditur quod fecit ille pro nobis neque in hoc quid imitaremur sed quid gratularemur He had no neede of vs that he might saue vs we without him can do nothing He hath giuen himselfe to be a vine to vs the branches we be side him can haue no life Finallie although breethren do die for their breethren yet the bloood of no martir is shed for the remission of his brcethrens sinnes which he did for vs neither hath bestowed vpon vs herein anie thing that we should follow but that we might reioycein In these wordes Augustine denyeth that Christes passion wanted the paines aud pas sions of martirs to be fullie