de notis eccles cap. 7. Si solae vna prouincia retineret veram fidem adhuc verè propriè diceretur ecclesia Catholica dummodo clarè ostenderetur eam esse vnam eandem cum illa quae fuit aliquo tempore vel diuersis in toto mundo if one only countrey should retaine the true faith yet the same should truly and properly be called the Catholike church so that it might cleerely be shewed to be one and the same with that which hath been at any time or times ouer the whole world For by this rule nothing hindreth but that our church though now it be not receiued generally in the greatest part of the Christian world yea if it were but in one onely country yet may truely and properly be called the Catholike church if it be prooued to be one and the same with the church which at any time heeretofore was spred ouer all the world But that our church is the same with that which at the first was spred thorowout the world it is very euident as Tertullian teacheth vs to prescribe g Tert. de praescript adu haeret In eadem fide conspirantes non minus Apostolicae deputantur pro consanguinitate doctrinae by consanguinity or agreement of our doctrine with the doctrine of that church For by the Gospell which the Apostles preached the church was founded thorowout the whole world h Iren. lib. 3. cap. 1. Quod quidem tunc praeconiauerunt postea per dei voluntatem in Scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostrae futurum The gospell which the Apostles preached they afterwards by the will of God deliuered to vs in the Scriptures to be the foundation and pillar of our faith The same Gospel deliuered to vs in the Scriptures we receiue we adde nothing to it we take nothing from it as we finde it so we teach it Our faith therefore is the same with the faith of that church which at the first was planted thorowout the whole world There is no cause then for vs to forsake our owne church or to thinke that the same began with Friar Luther as this dreamer imagineth which by so plaine deduction is approoued to be the same with the first church and consequently to be truely and properly the Catholike Church Finally saith he they beleeue no church in all points of faith But doth his wisedome finde it in the articles of the Creed that we are to beleeue any church in all points of faith The church how farre to be beleeued in points of faith We are taught there to beleeue that there is a holy catholike Church which is the communion of Saints but nothing doe we finde there of beleeuing any Church in all points of faith We beleeue the Church in points of faith so farre as she yeeldeth herselfe like a faithfull and obedient spouse to be guided by the voice of her Lord and husband Iesus Christ But if the Church preferre her owne will before the word of Christ as the proud harlot of Rome doth it should be a wrong to Christ to beleeue the Church and a way to set vp humane errour in stead of diuine truth It is not the voice of the Church but the word of the written Gospell which God hath appointed as Irenaeus euen now hath told vs to be the foundation and pillar of our faith For the words of the Church are many times the words of errour and vntruth and therefore if we should relie our saluation vpon the credit thereof wee should indeed relie vpon an vncertaine ground and erring guide but the word of the Gospell is alwaies one and the same without any variablenesse or vncertainty and therefore safely may wee relie our saluation thereupon Now therefore it cannot be said but that wee alwaies beleeue one holy catholike Church according to the profession of faith specified in the Creed though sometimes and in some things we doe not beleeue that is credit the visible Church as touching points of faith because the Church sometimes teacheth vs to beleeue otherwise than God hath taught Which though it seeme strange to M. Bishop in that language which he hath learned to speake yet to vs it is not strange who in the Canonicall histories of the Churches both of the old and new Testament do so often see them diuerting and turning from the right way As for that hee saith that our learned masters doe commonly cashiere out of the Creed the addition of the cōmunion of saints it is but a fruit of the harnessing of his face and he is therefore bold to say it because he hath learned not to be ashamed of any thing that he list to say That by the Saints are there meant al good Christians all the faithful whether aliue or dead we will not denie Communion of Saints implieth neither Purgatorie nor praier to saints but that either praier to saints or praier for soules in purgatorie belong to this communion of Saints we neuer yet learned and are too old to learne it now For as for the Saints in heauen i Aug. de vera relig cap 55. Honoramus eos charitate non seruitute honorandi propter imitationem non propter religionem adorandi We honour them with loue as Austin saith but not with seruice to follow them by imitation not to adore them by religion and therefore not to pray vnto them Further entercourse as yet there is none betwixt them and vs because k Esay 63.16 they know vs not nor are acquainted with vs nor can we any way acquaint them what wee say vnto them Now beside the Saints triumphant in heauen wee acknowledge none but those that are militant vpon the earth because the holie Ghost diuideth the whole body of the Church into l Eph. 1.10 Col. 1.20 those that are in heauen and those that are in earth and pronounceth them all m Reu. 14.13 blessed that are dead in Christ as who rest from labours and sorrowes and thereby are discharged from all Purgatorie paines But if there be any soules in Purgatorie to which all good Christian soules should yeeld and affoord their helpe to doe them ease and this be one matter of the entercourse and communion of Gods Saints why doth the Pope violate the communion of Saints by withholding from those tormented soules that helpe and ease which he is able to affoord them Surely if he cannot doe them ease then is he an impudent liar and a notable impostour and cozener of the world If he can do it then is he a cruell wretch that without compassion suffereth poore souls to lie broiling in those fierie flames But we rather approoue the former member of this diuision and take him for a liar both for that without warrant hee thrusteth in Purgatorie into the articles of our faith and with lesse warrant challengeth the same for a iurisdiction to himselfe 13. W. BISHOP 10 The forgiuenesse of sinnes
consequence but both parts fully agree that there is such an authority left by Christ in his Church They agree in deed but it is like Herod and Pilate against Christ Accordingly as they carrie themselues in this point so they deserue to be credited in all the rest But M. Bishop telleth vs that Christ might haue giuen him that authoritie without degrading himselfe And I answer him that the question is not what Christ might haue done but what he hath done Therefore his instance of a King substituting a Viceroy will not serue his turne for hee that without any commission from the King taketh vpon him to be a Viceroy and vnder pretence thereof impugneth his Princes lawes and maketh construction of them at his owne pleasure and to serue his owne turne howsoeuer he seeme to doe all in his Princes name yet is indeed a traitour and a rebell to his Prince This is the Popes case and therefore vnder the name of the Vicar of Christ he is no other but a traitour and a rebell against Iesus Christ As for those faculties of greater authoritie and vertue because wee reade nothing thereof in the Gospell no not in S. Peter himselfe thove faculties which they attribute to the Pope therefore we hold them and that iustly to bee the Popes owne presumptions the flatteries of Parasites the deuises of ill disposed men k Tit. 1.11 who speake things which they ought not for filthy lucers sake The Popish Priesthood is not true and reall but meerely fantasticall for a true and reall Priesthood such as they boast of requireth a true and reall sacrifice for sinne which they haue not For after the sacrifice which purchaseth forgiuenesse of sinnes l Heb. 10.18 there is no more offering for sinne But in the death of Christ is a full purchase of the forgiuenesse of sinnes Therefore after Christs death there is no more offering for sinne We say then of Priesthood as Cyrill hath taught vs to say m Cyril epist. 10 ad Nestor Nec praeter ipsum alteri cuipiam homini siue sacerdotij nomen siue rem ipsam ascribimus We ascribe not the name of Priesthood or the thing it selfe to any other but to Christ only See that question saith M. Bishop But where for hee himselfe hath said nothing of it and whatsoeuer he would say it is already preuented in n Sect. 27. answer of his Epistle to the King To the last obiection that for one Iesus the all-sufficient Mediatour of intercession they haue made as many as be in the Popes Kalendar he answereth yea and many more to What M. Bishop so many Mediatours when the Apostle saith plainly o 1. Tim. 2.5 There is one God and one Mediatour betwixt God and man euen the man Iesus Christ We hold saith hee that any of the faithfull yet liuing may bee also requested to pray for vs. True M. Bishop yet not as Mediatours as if we may plead any thing that they haue done or can do for vs for our owne accesse to God but onely as fellow-members of one body affected in compassion one towards an other pleading for our selues and ech for other that which Christ hath done for all Wherefore as the greater praieth for the lesse so doth the lesse also for the greater not onely S. Paul for the Romans the Ephesians the Collossians but also the p Rom. 15.30 Romans the q Eph. 6.19 Ephesians the r Col. 4.3 Colossians for S. Paul And although we thus request the praiers one of another yet doe we not pray to God that he will heare vs for their sakes whom we request to pray for vs but all expect mercy onely for Christs sake But Popish praiers are of a farre other nature Å¿ The golden Letany By the holy name of Marie haue mercy vpon vs by the intercession and merits of S. Peter S. Paul S. Iohn the Euangelist and other of thine Apostles haue mercy vpon vs by the vertues and merits of the holy fathers S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Chrysostome S. Ambrose and all other haue mercy vpon vs. This is one of the abhominations of Popery that they do not onely idlely intreat the Saints to pray for them but do also alleage to God their merits and intercessions by vertue thereof to obteine mercy at Gods hands But hee saith it shall be hard for vs to prooue that Christ onely maketh intercession for vs. Yea M. Bishop but why then doth S. Austen say that t Aug. in Psal 64. solus ibi ex his qui carnem gustauerunt interpellat pro nobis in heauen of all that haue beene partakers of flesh Christ onely maketh intercession for vs Did hee speake more then hee could prooue Deceiue not your selfe M. Bishop hee could prooue this matter well enough but you cannot prooue that which so iniuriously to Christ the onely Mediatour you affirme and teach that Mediation of intercession belongeth to the Saints it being a thing vnreasonable and absurd to thinke that Mediatours for vs stand in need of a Mediatour for themselues 4. W. BISHOP Lastly saith M. PERKINS for the only merits of Christ in whom alone the Father is well pleased what was he not well pleased with his Apostles they haue deuised a treasury of the Churches containing besides the merits of Christ the ouerplus of the merits of Saints to be dispensed to men at the discretion of the Pope and thus wee see that Christ and his merits be abolished Answer The good man is somewhat mistaken for we hold not any ouerplus of merits in Saints the which we acknowledge to be by God fully rewarded in heauen but we affirme that some Saints and blessed Martyrs haue suffered more paines in this life then the temporall punishment of their own sins deserued Who therefore might truely say with that iust man Iob Iob. 6.1 would to God my sinnes whereby I haue deserued wrath were weighed with the calamitie that I suffer euen as the sands of the sea this should be the heauier Now part of these sufferings of Gods Saints as being needlesse for their owne satisfaction are reserued in the Churches storehouse and may by the high steward of the Church to whom the dispensation of her treasure belongeth be communicated to others as verie reason teacheth vs for who is fitter to dispose of any mans goods then he to whom the charge thereof is giuen by his testament And thus I hope euery reasonable man doth finde vs Catholikes to be farre off from transforming Christ into an Idoll of mans conceit as M. PERKINS dreameth onely we see a misconceited man labouring in vaine to deface Christs benefits towards vs to calumniate his chiefe seruants and to skirmish against his owne phantasies then against any doctrine of â—â—rs R. ABBOT Whether M. Bishop or M. Perkins doe mistake The Popes storehouse merits lately built let the Reader iudge The Pope saith that a Extrauag de poenit remiss cap.
Vnigenitus Ad cutus thesauri cumulum beata dei genetricis omnium electorum à primo vsque ad vltimum merita adminiculum praestare noscuntur the merits of the holy Virgin and of all the elect from the first to the last are knowen to yeeld supply or help to the store of his treasury M. Bishop saith that they doe not hold any ouerplus of merits in Saints and therefore denieth any merits to be laied vp in that storehouse If M. Bishop say true then the Pope lieth If the Pope say true then M. Bishop lieth And if there be no ouerplus of merits in Saints we desire to know what reason they haue then to craue mercy of God by the merits of the Saints as we haue already seene in the former section But M. Bishop doth not loue to be demanded a reason of all matters he will haue vs to take his time though it be without reason Well though there be no merits yet what els may we thinke is laied vp in that storehouse of the Pope forsooth some Saints and Martyrs haue suffered more paines then the temporall punishment of their sinnes deserued Full wisely spoken the temporall punishment of their sinnes deserued paines But let that passe and what I pray of those paines forsooth the sufferings of the Saints which were needlesse for their owne satisfaction are reserued in the Churches storehouse and are to be dispensed by the Pope And therefore Iob is brought vs for an example who complaineth that b Iob 6.3 his calamity was heauier then his sinnes Indeed the holy man Iob considering the course of Gods iudgements in this world and knowing the cleerenesse of his conscience and the vprightnesse and innocency of his life might well and truely answer his friends that his strange fall and so vnspeakeable calamity was more grieuous then could be expected out of that condition of life which he had liued God had another end in the afflicting of Iob which Iob himselfe vnderstood not and therefore wondered at that which befell vnto him Whatsoeuer he suffered he is therein set before vs for an example of patience but as touching matter of satisfaction we read nothing Nay as Paul in that respect said of himselfe so must it be said of Iob also c 1. Cor. 1.13 Was Iob crucified for you Albeit we would gladly know of M. Bishop what became of the ouerplus of Iobs satisfactions for so long a time for the storehouse of which M. Bishop speaketh was of farre later time The matter of it was prepared by Heretikes the Pope gaue it ground and the Scholemen built it Where then was the superabundance of Iobs sufferings and of others all that while reserued to the Popes vse yea or how may it appeare that the disposing thereof is committed to the Pope Who is fitter saith M. Bishop to dispose of any mans goods then he to whom the charge thereof is committed by his testament Alas good man and doe ye now appeale to the Testament of Christ Bring vs foorth the Testament M. Bishop and shew vs where it is that Christ hath made the Pope supervisour of any such goods He is a lewd man that belieth and falsifieth the Testament of another man what are you then that thus belie the Testament of Christ Of this blasphemous fancy enough hath beene said before in the question of d Sect. 4. 7. satisfaction His parenthesis what was not the father well pleased with his Apostles such a wise one as it is is answered also e Of Merits sect 2. before He was well pleased with his Apostles but it was Christ alone in whom he was well pleased towards his apostles and is well pleased towards vs. f Greg. in Ezechiel hom 8. In solo sibi redemptore nostro complacuit pater quia in solo non inuenit cuâ—pam c. In Christ only saith Gregory the father was well pleased because in him only he found no sinne 5. W. BISHOP He laieth lastly a third kinde of Atheisme against vs for worshipping of God not with such respect as is sutable to his nature For saith he our worship is meere will worship for the most part without any allowance or commandement of God as Durand in his Rationale in effect acknowledgeth it is a carnall seruice standing of innumerable bodily rites and ceremonies borrowed partly from the Iewes and partly from the Heathens it is deuided betweene God and some of his creatures in that they are worshipped both with one kinde of worship let them paint it as they can c. Answer Ipse dixit Pythagoras hath pronounced his sentence yet you need not beleeue him vnlesse you list because he fableth so formally doth Durand acknowledge that all our worship is meere will worship and that it hath no allowance of God O egregious and impudent deceiuer For that learned deuout Author Durand doth nothing else in al that Booke then set out the Maiestie and declared the meaning of the worship of God vsed daily in our seruice throughout the whole yeare And therefore doth entitle his booke Rationale Diuinorum the reasons of diuine seruice And as for bodily rites wee vse but few and those very decent full of reuerence and most fit to stirre vp and cherish deuotion We bee not spirits and therefore must serue God by bodily ceremonies although the life and vertue of them proceed from the spirit employing all parts of the body in his worship and to his honour that made it neither be they borrowed of Iewes nor of the Heathens albeit they might perhaps the one by the commandement of God the other by the light of nature vse some such like but ours were deuised by the inspiration of the holy Ghost the heauenly guide and directer of the Catholike Church to mooue vs to serue God more deuoutly and with greater reuerence Now to say that we giue the same worship to any Saint that we giue to God is a stale iest that hath long sithence lost al his grace being found to be nothing els but a notorious vntruth very often confuted as by others else where so by me more then once in this booke where also these other slanders here cast vpon vs are more at large in their seuerall places discussed this therefore may serue in this place for an answer to those imputations of Atheismes which Master PERKINS obiecteth against vs. R. ABBOT It is not the maiestie of Gods worship that Durand setteth forth but the foolery and absurdity of Popish superstition Popish worship of God is but carnall seruice Of how many idle ceremonies doth he imforme vs and what great mysteries doth he make of them for which when he bringeth no allowance or commandement of God doth he not acknowledge in effect that they are a Col. 2.22.23 wilworships according to the doctrines and commandements of men Which being so God asketh thereof b Esay 1.12 who required these things at your hands and by
and assembling of the persons for the performance of that seruice The Church may be visible the former way when it is not visible the latter because it may be seene and knownen that there are many persons of such deuotion though they be not seene in any assembly for the practise of their deuotion In this sort there haue beene alwaies some either few or moe either one where or other who to the world though with perill and losse of their liues haue giuen testimony of the truth of God If we will vnderstand visible the latter way we must consider that the church it selfe may be spoken of diuersely either as touching the title of outward vocation and calling or as touching the sinceritie and truth of profession and faith There may be a church as touching outward calling visible to the world which yet doth not preserue that integrity truth of faith whereby it first became a church There may be a people tied by couenant vnto God and by Sacraments professing in their assemblies to serue him who yet vnfaithfully peruert the seruice of God and depart from that way of religion which he hath taught them In this outward state and condition of the Church it is to be remembred which our Sauiour Christ saith k Math. 22.14 Many are called but few are chosen the multitude generally taking vpon them to be called the people of God when few of them are so indeed in so much that the Prophet Esay cried out concerning the Church of Israel l Esay 10.21 Rom. 9.27 Though the number of the children of Israel were as the sand of the sea yet but a remnant shall be saued For euen in the profession of true religion and where the word of God hath publicke maintenance and state yet how few are there commonly who care to bring foorth the fruits thereof in holy conuersation Albeit it falleth out further also many times that this outward face of the church is beraied with the filth of manifold superstitions and idolatries that true doctrine is reiected and in place thereof humane traditions and inuentions are set vp and magnified whilest men neglect and forget the couenant of God and will needes vse their owne wits for seruing him Yea so far they proceed in the admiration and liking of their owne doings as that they hate the truth and become persecutours of them who continue constant therein and refuse to ioine with them to be partakers of their sinne Thus it came to passe in Israel by the sinne of Ieroboam and much more by the sinne of Ahab and in Iudah by the Apostasie of Manasses who brought abhomination into the temple of God and set vp idols there to be worshipped instead of God At which time the case so stood as that Israel and Iudah hauing both cast off the yoake of the law of God broken the bounds that he appointed them there was no publike state of true religion throughout the whole world The publike state and gouernement of the same church of the Iewes the onely visible church refused the preaching of Christ preferred their owne traditions before Gods commandement and pronunced sentence of death against the Sonne of God They onely were the people of God the Church of God but perfidiously they rebelled against God and refused to be guided by his word But yet amidst all this Apostasie and defection of the church the calling of God did not become vaine neither was his couenant of circumcision without effect but still he had a remnant in whom he was glorified m 1. King 19.18 seuen thousand in Israel though vnknowen to Elias who had not bowed their knee vnto Baal in Iudah many who continued stedfast in the testimony of God in the pursute of whom Manasses is said n 2. King 21.16 to haue shed innocent blood exceeding much and to haue replenished Ierusalem therewith from corner to corner In a word at the comming of Christ amongst a huge heape of chaffe there were some graines of wheat some few faithfull that o Luk 2.38 23.51 waited for redemption and for the kingdome of God Now then where the church importeth them only that are professours of Gods true religion there the church is sometimes visible and somtimes inuisible visible one where another where inuisible For true religion sometimes hath publike state maintenance and the assemblies and congregations for exercise thereof are apparant to all mens eies that whosoeuer will may resort vnto them But sometimes hypocrisie getteth the vpper hand and vnder the name of the Church challengeth to it selfe the places of publike assemblie driuing out from thence synceritie and truth and suffering nothing to be done there but for it owne behoofe Heere then the professours of truth are faine p 1. King 18.4 Heb. 11.37.38 to hide their heads and to keepe themselues in corners and by stealth onely to assemble and meete together It falleth out heere many times that they are forced with Elias q 1. Kin. 19.3 to flie for their liues and because they are watched and waited for to be drawen to death therefore doe betake themselues to places where so neere as may be they may saue each to other neither be knowne nor seene In this case therefore the church that is the professours of the true faith and religion of the Church are said to be inuisible not for that they are meerely to mens eyes inuisible as is the Church in the first sense before named but because it is not to bee seene in publike state and assembly in free open profession as in times of peace and liberty it is woont to be For that otherwise they are visible appeareth plainly in that they liue continually subiect to the malignity of their aduersaries to indignity and reproch to bonds and imprisonment to cruell massacrees tortures and death all which they should auoid if they were wholly out of sight But this inuisibility of the church is not to be considered onely in the church persecuting the church the worse part thereof the better r August de doct Christ l. 3. cap. 32. Corpus domini verum atque simulatum the counterfeit body of Christ as Saint Austin calleth it the true but also when by foreiners and strangers attempt is made against the whole church For so it is sometimes that the whole name of the church of God is impugned and the aduersary vseth all his might vtterly to extinguish the memoriall thereof God by this meanes making triall of his and exercising their faith and patience and bringing iust reuenge vpon hypocrites who abuse his calling and grace to the doing of their owne will Heere then God giuing way to the enemy the outward state of the church is wholy ouerthrowen the publike exercise of religion is altogether interrupted and broken off and the members of the church though they be seene and knownen as such a people yet are not seene in the condition of the
church that is assembling themselues together to performe religion and seruice to their God This was the state of the church in the captiuity of Babylon when Ierusalem was burnt to the ground the temple destroied the people of God carried away into strange lands and heere and there dispersed amongst the heathen nations The like befell them by the tyranny of Antiochus euen in their owne land their temple being defiled their religion interdicted and euery one commanded to be slaine that would not renounce the law of God Now to apply all these things to the state of the church of Christ it was first oppugned by professed enemies who sought wholly to root out the name of Christians and to abandon the faith of Christ vtterly out of the world Thus did the Iewes first and after them the Heathens persecute the whole profession of Christianity and by the importunity of their cruelty did many times so obscure and darken the face of the church as that for the most part it was hardly to be seene Whosoeuer were found to giue open testimony to the name of Christ were martyred and slaine the rest for feare of the like danger either fled into wildernesses and solitary places or else had their meetings very couertly and secretly that they might not be espied Yea their sauage and barbarous fury so far preuailed as that they seemed to themselues to haue gotten a perpetuall victory ouer the name of Christ and did set vp pillars of marble as trophees thereof whereof it is said that some monuments are yet remaining vntill this day Thus albeit many thousands there were who heere and there dispersed and scattered continued steadfast in the faith of Christ and in many places couertly gathered themselues together for the exercise of their faith yet the Church to the sight of the enemies therof was inuisible neither could they in a manner take knowledge of any against whom their malice might any further proceed But when by the prouidence and mercy of God the sword of those tyrants was wrested out of their hands this inuisible church soone came to light againe and began to enioie outward state and honour and the Saints who seemed to haue beene dead and buried in euerlasting reproch and shame became renowmed and glorious in the world and as they were indeed so began they in the opinion of men to be exalted vnto heauen From thencefoorth we affirme that the church hath neuer ceased to be eminently and apparantly visibly to al the world so far are we from saying that which Bellarmine as the master and M. Bishop here as the scholar do impute vnto vs Å¿ Bâ—llarm de notis eccl cap 9. Ecclesiam visibilem a multis seculis perijsse c. docent omnes that the visible church for many ages was quite perished out of the world How can we be taken to say that the church was perished for many ages who doe hold that for those many ages whereof we speake Antichrist according to that that was prophecied of him did t 2. Thess 2.4 sit as God in the Temple that is to say the church of God If we say that Antichrist sate that is dominated and tyrannized in the church the visible church then surely we deny it not to be the visible church wherein Antichrist did sit We confesse that the church in all that time hath beene apparant to the eies of all men the whole world saw it Turkes and Saracens fought against it and did their vttermost to root it out that the name of Christians might no more haue beene heard of amongst men But we say withall that the visible church by the vsurpation of Antichrist was become for the most part as the temple of God in the daies of u 2. King 2â— 4.7 Manasses replenished with idolatries and abhominations or as the church of the Iewes at the comming of Christ euen x Mat. 9.36 like sheepe without a shepheard burdened with humane traditions and wanting the free aire of the word of God whereby hee ministreth the breath of euerlasting life As y Ierem. 3.20 the wife that is rebellious and vnfaithfull to her husband z Prou. 2.17 which forsaketh the guide of her youth and forgetteth the couenant of her God so was the state of the Church shamefully polluting her selfe with manifold fornications whiles she proftituted herselfe to the embracings of the Romane adulterer and yeelded to him the obedience and seruice which she should haue reserued vnto Iesus Christ Shee was the mother indeed by whom God through baptisme brought foorth children to himselfe but being though by nature a mother yet by affection a step-mother when she had brought them foorth shee poisoned them or else hated and put them from her if any refused to drinke of her cup and to approoue those adulteries and sorceries wherewith their father her husband and Lord was dishonoured by her And many such were there through the whole decourse of the desolations of Antichrist whose eies God opened some more some lesse to see the filthinesse of their mother who though happily by education they were not wholly without some aspersion of the errors and superstitions of their times yet abhorred those Idolatries and abhominations whereby the Church had broken her faith to God and made way so much as in her lay for her full diuorce and separation from him For God forbid that we should thinke that the spirit of trueth was wholly departed from the Church or that the couenant of Baptisme was voide on Gods behalfe sealing none vnto him but that amidst those ruines he had still his remnant which not in name onely but in trueth were the Church of Christ For as in a common pestilence though it rage neuer so sore yet it infecteth not all and many whom it doth infect yet are not deadly infected but many by preseruatiues escape and others by strength of nature expel the venime in botches and sores so as that life is still preserued euen so in that generall pestilence and infection which the breath of Antichrist had blowen abroad through the church howsoeuer it were vniuersally dispersed yet it tainted not all and many that were touched with it yet drunke not so deepe of the whore of Babylons cup as to surfet and die thereof and albeit they might seeme in a maner to bee drowned in common errours yet reteined that fundamentall doctrine of true faith in Christ whereby they keept the head aboue water to receiue the breath of life and through the fire of repentance by harty praier vnto God for remission of all their sinnes and ignorances whether knowen to them in their end or remaining vnknowen passed vnto eternall life a See Simon Goulart Catalog test veritatis Many such there were in the bosome of their church euen in their monasteries and religious houses to whom God reuealed the light of his truth Who b Ezech. 9.4 mourned and cried for all the abhominations that were
cannot bring so much as one man within the compasse of eleuen hundred yeeres after Christ that euer reduced the Sacraments to that number And shall not we well deserue to bee written vpon the backe-side of the booke of Wisedome if we shal take that for a principle of Christian religion which came first out of their schoole for the space of more then a 1000. yeres was neuer so knoweÌ„ in the church of Christ The Apostle m 1. Cor. 10.1.2 c. when he wil shew the Church of the Israelites to haue beene equall to vs in grace of Sacraments instanceth the same only in our two sacraments because he knew no more And no more did the ancient Fathers know who vniuersally holding the same mysterie of the creation of the woman out of the side of Adam being asleepe namely that n Aug. in Psal 56. Dormienti Christo in cruce facta est coniux de latere percussum est enim latus pendent is de lancea et prâ—fluxerunt Ecclesiae Sacramenta in Ioan. tract 15. thereby was figured the framing of the Church by Sacraments out of the side of Christ being dead when being pearced there issued out of it o Ioh. 19.34 1. Ioh. 5.6 water and bloud doe name those Sacraments as we doe p Aug. de symbol ad CatechuÌ„ lib. 2. c. 6. Sanguis aqua quae sunt Ecclesiae gemina sacramenta Chrysost in Ioan. hom 84. Theophy in Ioan. 19. Cyprian de passione Christi Of the effects of the Sacraments two onely and no more Whereas he saith that we extinguish the vertue and efficacy of those two sacraments it is only his blinde conceit We deny not but that the Sacraments are instruments of grace and of remission of sinnes and yet we deny them to bee so in that sort as is affirmed by the church of Rome namely as to giue grace ex opere operato for the very worke wrought as the Schoolemen speake It is worthily obserued by Saint Austin that q Aug. in Ioan. tract 80. Aâ—cedat verbum ad elementum fit Sacramentum etiam ipsum tanquam visibile verbuÌ„ a Sacrament is as it were a visible word because by it in way of signification God as it were speaketh the same to the eie other senses which by the word he soundeth to the eare Yea hee affirmeth that the outward element of it selfe is nothing but it is by the word that it hath whatsoeuer power it hath r Ibid. Quare non ait Nunc mundi estis propter baptismum quo loti estis sed ait propter verbum quod locutus sum vobis nisi quia in aqua verbum mundat Detrahe verbum quid est aqua nisi aqua moxâ— Vnde ista tanta virtus aquae vt corpus tangat cor abluat nifi saciente verbo Non quia dicitur sed quia creditur Why doth not Christ say Now are yee cleane by the baptisme wherewith yea are washed but by the word which I haue speken to you but because in the water it is the word that clenseth Take away the word and what is water but water Whence is it that the water hath so great power to touch the body and to wash the heart but that the word doth it and that not because it is spoken but because it is beleeued Now if the Sacrament haue all his vertue and efficacy from the word and the word haue his power not for that it is spoken but for that it is beleeued we must conceiue the same of the Sacrament also that the effect thereof standeth not in being applied by the hand of the minister but in being beleeued by the faith of the receiuer God both by the one and by the other ministring and increasing faith and the holy Ghost accompanying both the one and the other to doe that that is beleeued Thus is baptisme a signe of representation to the vnderstanding and seale of confirmation to faith effectuallie deliuering to the beleeuer through the holy Ghost the grace of God and the remission of all his sinnes And why doth it trouble M. Bishop that wee make baptisme in this sort onely a signe and a seale when as though signes and seales be not the things themselues yet by signes and seales men are woont to be entitled and inuested to the things signified and sealed And hath not the Apostle himselfe taught vs thus to speake Gregory Bishop of Rome saith that Å¿ Greg. Moral lib. 4. c. 3. Quod apud nos vales aqua Baptismatis hoc egit apud veteres vel pro paruulis sola fides vel pro maioribus virtus Sacrificij vel pro his qui ex stirpe Abrahae prodierant mysterium circumcisionis what the water of baptisme doth with vs the same did the mystery of circumcision with the seed of Abraham But of circumcision the Apostle saith thus * Rom. 4.11 The reall eating of Christ a grosse fancie Abraham receiued the signe of circumcision as the seale of the righteousnes of faith Baptisme therefore must be to vs the signe and seale of the righteousnesse of faith Their doctrine of reall eating the body of Christ importeth no matter of comfort and dignitie but a carnall rude and profane fancy t Cyril ad Euopt cont reprehens Theodor anath 11. Num hominis comestionem nostrum hoâ— sacramentuÌ„ pronuntias irreligiose ad crassas cogitationes vrges eorum qui crediderunt mentem attentas humanis cogitationibus tractare quae sola pura inexquisita fide accipiuntur Doest thou saith Cyril pronounce our Sacrament to be the eating of a man and irreligiously vrge the minds of them that beleeue to grosse imaginations and assay to handle by humane conceits those things which are to bee receiued by only pure and vndoubted faith Christ indeed is not the foode of the belly but of the minde and therefore u Cyprian de caena dom Haec quoties agimus non dentes ad mordendum acuimus sed fide syncerae panem sanctum frangim us partimur we doe not whet our teeth to bite but with syncere faith we breake and diuide the sacred bread saith Cyprian because x August in Ioan. tract 26. Credere in Christum hoc est menducare paenem viuum to beleeue in Christ saith Austin that is to eate the bread of life and y Iohn 6.54.56 he that thus eateth the flesh of Christ and eternall life and Christ shall raise him vp at the last day And because we thus teach that spritually and by faith we eate the very body of Christ and drinke his blood as alwaies so specially in that speciall helpe of faith which God hath ministred vnto vs in the supper of the Lord and that thereby we grow more and more into communion and fellowship with him to become partakers of the riches of his grace to immortality and euerlasting life therefore we doe not take
appeare further As for his other quarrell that we haue in our churches neither Altars nor Images it pleaseth vs the better for that we finde the same also obiected to the first Christians by x Celsus apud Origen cont Cels l. 7. Non ferunt templa aras statuas inspicere lib. 8. Celsus ait nos ararum statuarū templorumque dedicationes fugere Celsus the Pagan We like well to be vnlike to the Church of Rome so that we may be like to them For M. Bishop we know him to be a man much delighted with babies a trimme gilded Rood and a goodly faire Lady they are the ioy of his heart Let God say what he will that y Esay 44 10. the Image is profitable for nothing and that z Ierem. 10.8 the stocke is a doctrine of vanity yet he will not be perswaded but that the sight of these goodly Idols is the only way to procure heauenly meditation As for sentences of Scripture to be set vp vpon the Church walles that is but dawbing it is but Ale-house fashion and no heauenly meditation groweth thereof But may we not thinke that he came from the Ale-house when he wrot this and that he is indeed fitter for an Ale-house than for the Church What must we thinke that the looking vpon a dumbe and dead stocke is fitter to mooue heauenly meditation than the liuelie word of God But we see his meaning well enough it is this Scripture that troubleth him his stomacke can by no meanes brooke this Scripture to haue Gods commandement written vpon the church wals as by order it is appointed a Exod. 20.4 Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen Image nor the likenesse of any thing that is in heauen aboue or in the earth beneath c. Thou shalt not bow downe to them nor worship them c. This is it that galleth him to the soule this is it that vexeth him in behalfe of his faire and religious pictures that no bowing downe no holy and religious worship may bee done to them But it is nothing to vs that wee offend him God himselfe who said of his Commandements b Deut. 6.9 Thou shalt write them vpon the postes of thine house and vpon thy gates did not thinke it Ale-house fashion to haue them written vpon Church-walles but that we should set vp Altars and Images in our Churches wee doe not finde any warrant to haue come from him His last exception is very idle It was the ancient custome of Christians to pray with their faces towards the East So is it ours also as appeareth vsually in all our Churches Yea but our Ministers in their highest mysteries looke into the South Well and so is it alleaged by Bishop Iewell that c Bish Iewel Replie art 3. Diuis 26. at this day in the great Churches at Millaine Naples Lions Mentz and Rome and in the Church of Saint Laurence in Forence the Priest in his seruice standeth towards the West hauing his face full vpon the people and that heereupon Durand saith that in such places the Priest needeth not to turne himselfe round when he saith Dominus vobiscum and saluteth the people as otherwise hee is woont to doe And why not our Ministers towards the South as well as theirs towards the West Will he haue vs to conclude heereof that their religion is now declining and going downe If not let him acknowledg then the folly of his owne collection that our spirituall state is now at the highest and that in our religion there is no hope of rising towards heauen but assurance of declining Albeit I must aduertise him briefely that true religion wherby the Sunne of righteousnesse shineth vnto vs and whereby we rise to heauen hath beene subiect to such condition to bee sometimes rising sometimes at the height and sometimes declining againe yea sometimes woonderfully eclipsed and hidden in a maner quite out of sight yet notwithstanding it neuer had such a fall but that as the sunne it hath had a time to rise againe But the whore of Babylon the persecutour of true religion albeit she haue flattered herselfe in the security of her state and said of herselfe d Reuel 18.7 I sit like a Queene and am no widow and shall see no mourning yet shee hath begun to fall and notwithstanding the props and staies that her louers vse to hold her vp shall fall daily more and more neuer to rise againe God hauing so foretold vs that e Vers 21. as a milstone shee shal be cast with violence into the sea thencefoorth to be found no more 21. W. BISHOP I may not heere omit that of late yeeres they haue caused the Kings armes to be set vp in the place where Christs armes the Crucifix was wont to stand the which I confesse would haue graced their Church better if it had beene elsewhere placed But I hope they will giue mee leaue to aske them how they durst set vp any such Images in their Churches as be in that armes For they haue taught hitherto that it is expresly against the second commandement and a kinde of Idolatry not only to worship Images but also to set them vp in Churches and yet now as it were cleane for getting themselues they fall into that fault themselues that they haue so much blamed in others Neither will it helpe them to say that they reprooued only the setting vp of holy pictures but not of others For the second commandement as they expound it is aswell against the one as the other forbidding generally the making of any kinde of Image And is it not a pitifull blindnesse to thinke that the pictures of Lions and Liberts do better become the house of God than the Image of his owne Son and of his faithfull seruants And may not simple people thinke when they see Christs armes cast downe and the Princes set vp in their place that there dwell men who make more account of their Princes honour then they doe of Christs And that their meeting in that place call it what you will is rather to serue their Prince than to serue Christ But I haue beene longer in their place of praier than I thought R. ABBOT The King is a great mote in M. Bishops eie and therefore he could not heere passe by without a quarrell to the Kings armes The Kings armes lawfully set vp in our Churches and not popish images We haue placed hee saith the Kings armes where Christs armes the Crucifixe was woont to stand But who made M. Bishop a herauld to assigne armes to Christ and that without any priuity or liking of Christ himselfe Did Christ euer tell him or any man else that he meant to giue a Crucifixe for his armes This is a fantasticall imagination neither did Christ take course by a picture but by the word of the Gospell to be a Gal. 3.1 described before our eies as crucified amongst vs. But if the
seruice M. Bishop sheweth himselfe to be a man of a leaud and dishonest tongue that will make any comparison of the Church of Rome to our Church And thus we are come to an end of his long preface wherein what mature iudgement he hath shewed concerning a matter of so great moment it remaineth for the Reader to iudge for my part I iudge he did very ill bestow his time in blotting so many papers with so much folly and vntruth But his transition is woorthy to be noted Now to the rest of his questions saith he according to his own â—â—â—der whereas of twelue questions consequently handled by M. Perkins he speaketh not a word but onely passeth to an aduertisement in the end where hee thought least harme might befall to him Heere is some want of plaine dealing which may iustly cause his Reader to bee suspicious and doubtfull of him A confutation to D. BISHOPS answer to Master PERKINS his Aduertisement W. PERKINS An aduertisement to all fauourers of the Roman religion shewing as he weeneth that the said Religion is against the Catholike principles of the Catechisme that hath beene agreed vpon euer since the daies of the Apostles by all Churches Which principles be foure The Apostles Creed the tenne Commandements the Lords praier the institution of two Sacraments Baptisme and the Lords Supper 1. COR. 11. v. 23. 1. W. BISHOP I Had once determined to haue wholly omitted this goodly post-script because it containeth in manner nothing else but an irkesome repetition of that which hath beene I will not say twice before but more than twenty times handled ouer and ouer in this former small treatise notwithstanding considering both how ready many are when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and also for that these pointes heere reiterated are the most odious that he could cull out of all the rest to vrge against vs I finally resolued to giue them a short answer And further also by prouing their new religion to be very opposite vnto those old grounds of the true religion to requite him with the like that I die not in his debt Thus he beginneth The Roman religion established by the Councell of Trent is in the principall points thereof against the very grounds of the Catechisme the Creede the tenne Commandements the Lords praier the two Sacraments THe Catholike religion embraced and defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul fifteene hundred yeeres before the Councell of Trent and hath been euer sithence by the Bishops of Rome their lawfull successours constantly retained and most sincerely obserued and maintained some articles thereof called into question by the Heretikes of this latter age were in that most learned generall Councell of Trent declared and defined And great meruaile it were if the principall points thereof should be against the grounds of the Catechisme which is in euery point most substantially expounded by the decree and order of the very same Councell Or is it credible that the Church of Rome with which all other ancient Churches and holy Fathers did desire to agree and which hath beene euer most diligent to obserue all Apostolicall traditions should in the principall points of faith crosse and destroy the very principles of that religion that hath been agreed vpon by all Churches euer since the Apostle daies as he saith Is it not much more likely and probable that the Protestants who slander all Churches euer since the time of the Apostles with some kinde of corruption or other and who hold no kinde of Apostolicall tradition to be necessary is not not I say more credible that they should shake those grounds of faith which come by tradition from the Apostles and haue beene euer since by all Churches agreed vpon I suppose that few men of any indifferent iudgement can thinke the contrary R. ABBOT M. Bishop is desirous to seeme to haue omitted nothing because many saith he are ready when they see any thing omitted to say that it could not be answered and yet he hath cunningly omitted the handling of twelue questions as I haue already noted which are more than the third part of the booke which he vndertooke to answer In that which here he hath sent vs he taketh vpon him as to answer M. Our religion and not Popery is the old religion Perkins so by way of requitall to prooue that our new religion as he calleth it is very opposite vnto the old grounds of the true religion But if his eies were open he would easily see that that new religion and the true religion are all one our new religon as to him it seemeth being indeed no other but that onely true religion whereby all the faithfull haue been saued from the beginning and so shal be to the worlds end And if he will haue our religion to be taken for a new religion he must first impeach those grounds of antiquitie wherby we haue hitherto iustified the same against his vaine and wilfull cauilations As for that which he saith that the religion now defended by the Church of Rome was planted and established there by the Apostles Saint Peter and Saint Paul it is the begging of the question a fond presumption an idle headed dreame who but fooles and madde men beleeue it when they see the writings of the Apostles Peter and Paul and therein finde no mention of the religion that is now at Rome neither of the Pope nor of Purgatorie nor Pardons nor Iubilies nor Masse nor Images nor any other of that filth If the successors of that See had constantly reteined the faith that by the Apostles was deliuered we should now haue that religion at Rome which is taught in the Epistle to the Romanes which now is our religion and was then the religion of the church of Rome Of that religion those heretikes whom no otherwise he so nameth but according to the a Act. 24.14 Iewish phrase called nothing into question they only questioned impugned those additions and alterations wherewith the church of Rome hath defiled and disgraced that religion The Councel of Trent a mockerie of the world The Councell of Trent which declared and defined against them was neither learned nor generall It was a base and a vile collusion and meere mockerie of the world partially assembled by the Pope guilefully managed by his Agents directed wholly by his intelligence nothing there to bee concluded but what hee first approued yet all in sine left at his will by that damnable clause neuer heard of in any former Councel b Conc. Trid. sess 7. in princip sess 25. cap. 21. de reformat Salua semper in omnibus authoritate sedis Apostolicae Sauing alwaies and in all things the authoritie of the See Apostolike Some Diuines there were of qualitie and worth who gaue their assistance in that businesse but as for the Bishops of which
not Apostolical traditions which appeare certainely so to be and yet woorthily we reiect those vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions of the Papists which are falsely fathered vpon the Apostles It is by these vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions that the grounds of our faith are impeached and shaken We therefore cannot be said to shake the grounds of faith who retaine the meere simplicity of those grounds and refuse all other strange and bastard stuffe but they shake the grounds of faith who become patrons of such tradition coloured with the names of the Apostles when notwithstanding they plainely crosse the written doctrine of the Apostles 2. W. BISHOP But let vs descend to the particulars wherein the truth will appeare more plainely Thus beginneth Master PERKINS with the Creede First of all it must be considered that some of the principall doctrines beleeued in the Church of Rome are that the Bishop of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike Church that there is a fire of Purgatory that Images of God and Saints are to be placed in the Church and worshipped that Praier is to be made to Saints departed that there is a propitiatory sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead These points are of that moment that without them the Roman religion cannot stand c. And yet marke the Apostles Creed which hath beene thought to containe all necessary points of religion to be beleeued and hath therefore beene called the key and rule of faith This Creede I say hath not any of these points nor the expositions made thereof by the ancient Fathers nor any other Creed or confession of faith made by any Councell or Church for the space of many hundred yeeres This is a plaine proofe to any indifferent man that these bee new articles of faith neuer knowen in the Apostolike Church and that the Fathers and Councels could not finde any such articles of faith in the bookes of the old and new Testament Answer is made that all these points of doctrine are beleeued vnder the article I beleeue the Catholike Church the meaning whereof they will haue to be this I beleeue all things which the Catholike Church holdeth and teacheth to be beleeued If this bee as they say wee must beleeue in the Church that is put our confidence in the Church for the manifestation and the certainety of all doctrine necessary to saluation And thus the eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend vpon the determination of the creature And the written word of God in this respect is made insufficient as though it had not plainely reuealed all points of doctrine pertaining to saluation And the ancient Churches haue beene farre ouer-secene that did not propound the former points to be beleeued as articles of faith but left them to these latter times Thus farre Master PERKINS Wherein are hudled vp many things confusedly I will answere briefly and distinctly to euery point The first is that in the Apostles Creede are contained all points of religion necessary to be beleeued which is most apparantly false as the Protestants themselues must needes confesse or else grant that it is not necessary to beleeue the King to be Supreame-head of the Church or that the Church is to be gouerned by Bishops or that we are iustified by Christs iustice imputed to vs or that there be but two Sacraments or that the Church seruice must be said in the vulgar tongue or that all things necessary to be beleeued to saluation are contained in the Scriptures To be short not one article of their religion which is contrary to ours is conteined in this Creede of the Apostles therefore to affirme as he doth all necessary points of religion to be contained in this Creede is to cast their owne religion flat to the ground and to teach that not one point of it is to be beleeued this Creede may neuerthelesse be called the key and rule of faith because it containeth the principall points of the Christian religion and doth open as it were the doore vnto all the rest and guide a man certainely vnto the knowledge of them by teaching vs to beleeue the Catholike Church which being the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3.15 Ioh. 16.13 directed and guided by the spirit of truth will alwaies instruct her obedient children in all truth necessary to saluation Then saith M. PERKINS The eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend on the determination of the creature Nothing lesse for Gods truth is most sincere and certaine in it selfe before any declaration of the church but we poore creatures that are subiect to mistaking and error should not so certainely vnderstand and know that truth of God vnlesse hee had ordained and appointed such a skilfull and faithfull Mistris and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it Like as pure gold is not made perfect in it self by the Gold-smithes touch-stone but other men are thereby assured that it is true and pure gold euen so the word of God doth not borrow his truth from the Church but the true children of God are by the holy Church assured which is the same his word If we did hold as we do not that the written word containeth all points of doctrine necessary to saluation yet were it most necessary to relie vpoÌ„ the Catholike churches declaration both to be assured which books of scriptures be Canonicall which not whereupon Saint Augustine a man of far better iudgement than any of these daies said Con. Epist. Iud. cap. 5. that he would not beleeue the Gospel vnlesse the authority of the church mooued him therunto as also to vnderstand them truly because the words of holy Scripture without the true meaning and sense of them do but deceiue men and lead them into error and to that end haue alwaies beene and yet are by Heretikes abused to draw others after them into destruction The like may be said of other ancient Creeds and confessions of faith which holding the Apostles Creed did adde some few points vnto it namely such as were in those daies called into question by Heretikes of greater fame and who were followed of many not touching in particular diuers other articles generally beleeued of all true Christians or else by soâ—e fewe and obscure men onely questioned Wherefore to argue that no other points of faith are to be beleeued but such as are expressed in ancient Creeds is to cut off a great part of our faith Lastly it is most vntrue to say that those ancient Fathers and Councels knew not of these articles of faith by him mentioned for they haue most plainely taught them in their writings yea and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions now againe reuiued and holden by the Protestants as in those seuerall questions I haue before prooued R. ABBOT How M. Pirkins vnderstood that all necessary
Priest is q Mal. 2.7 the messenger of the Lord of hosts The Priest though he be by calling the messenger of the Lord yet sometimes neglecteth his calling and forbeareth to doe the message wherewith hee is sent and so the church though by duty it be the pillar and ground of truth appointed to vphold and maintaine the same yet sometimes forgetteth this duery and followeth lies in stead of truth For as the church is now so hath it euer beene from the beginning the pillar and ground of truth and yet we finde that very often the church of the Iewes in the time of the Iudges and vnder the wicked Kings of Iudah and Israel did forsake t Mal. 2.6 the law of truth which God had giuen vnto them went a whooring after strange and false gods and many waies prouoked him by their abominations For no longer doth the church continue to be as it ought to be the pillar and ground of truth than it continueth built vpon the foundations of truth ſ Eph. 2.20 vpon the foundations of the Apostles and Prophets as Saint Paul speaketh t Ambros in Eph. 2. Hoc est supra nouum vetus teslamentum collocati that is vpon the new and old Testament as Ambrose expoundeth it If it once go awry from those foundations truth falleth to the ground and it becommeth a pillar and fortresse of errour and vntruth Thus hath it come to passe in M. Bishops church of Rome which in her pride hath cast off the yoke which she at first tooke vpon her and hath magnified herselfe to be a Queene to giue lawes of her owne in stead of the lawes of Iesus Christ Shee is indeede by duety as all other churches are a pillar and ground of truth but being become the minion of Antichrist and prostituted to his adulterous desires shee hath learned for his sake and for her owne sake by him u 1. Tim. 4.2 to speake lies in hypocrisie and x 2. Pet. 2.3 through couetousnesse with feined words to make merchandise of y Reu. 18.13 the soules of men All which hypocrisie and feined words shee fairly gloseth and cōmendeth to men with this perswasion that she can not erre because she hath a promise of Christ to be alwaies directed and guided by his spirit into all trueth But where hath Christ made any such promise to the Church of Rome Whom and how the spirit of Christ leadeth into all truth Wee read that Christ said to his Apostles z Ioh. 16.13 When he is come which is the spirit of truth he will lead you into all trueth and wee beleeue that what hee spake to his Apostles he intended to the whole Church and to all the faithfull but neither doe we reade nor haue any cause to beleeue that Christ therein intended any thing in speciall to the church of Rome neither did euer any ancient Father or Councell gather any such thing out of those words And surely no otherwise doe they alleage this Scripture for themselues than the Manichees did for themselues and the Montanists for themselues For as the Manichees alleaging these words to colour their heresies against the Scripture appropriated the spirit of truth here spoken of to their Patriarch a August cont Faust Manich. lib. 32. cap. 17. Dicere soletis Ipse vos inducet in omnem veritatem c. de vestro Manichao esse praedictum Manicheus and the Montanistes in like sort to b Tertull. de Veland virginib sub initio Montanus as if in them and by them the spirit should direct the Church into all truth Euen so the Papists howsoeuer they talke of the Church directed by the spirit yet doe indeed put ouer the Church to the Pope placing the residence of the spirit in him that he may bee to the Church the infallible oracle of all truth In which fancie if they will expect to haue more credit than those heretikes had they must bring better warrant for themselues than those heretikes did But because they can bring vs none therefore we reiect them all alike as coseners and deceiuers of the Church pretending the spirit of truth for the maintenance of lies and claiming that credit to be giuen to an vsurping wretch which our Sauiour reserueth as proper to the holy Ghost The promise of the spirit as I said before belongeth to all the faithfull and of them all S. Iohn saith c 1 Ioh. 2.27 The anointing which yee haue receiued of him that is saith Austin d August in 1. Ioan. tract 4. Eadem vnctio id est ipse spiritus domini the spirit of the Lord teacheth you of all things Albeit when it is said all things and all truth we are not to vnderstand absolutely all for the spirit doth not teach vs to know e Idem in actis cum Felice Manich. lib. 1. cap. 10. Si hanc doctrinam putas ad illam veritatem pertinere c. interrogo te qunt sint stellae Ibid. Ego tibi possum dicere ea quae pertinent ad doctrinam Christianam how many starres there be as Austin opposeth to Felix the Manichee but he teacheth all things belonging to the doctrine of Christ as the same Austin there expoundeth Yea and yet further he excepteth by the words of the Apostle f Idem cap. 11. Dicebat Apostolus Ex parte scimus c. quia in i st a vita homo cum est non potest assequi omnia sed ex parte assequitur in hac vita ipse autem spiritus qui ex parte docet in hac vita post hanc vitam introducet in omnem veritatem Vide eund in Ioan. tract 96. We know in part and we prophecie in part that whilest a man is in this life he cannot attaine to all things but attaineth onely in part but the holy Ghost saith he which in this life teacheth in part shall after this life bring vs into all truth Hee therefore giueth vs to vnderstand that notwithstanding this promise of the spirit of truth it is incident to them to whom the same appertaineth to be ignorant in this life of many truthes to be subiect to mistaking and errour albeit the same spirit faileth not to enlighten them to that necessary truth which serueth for introduction finally to all truth And heerein the Apostle comforteth vs that g Phil. 3.15 that if any man be otherwise minded than is right God will reueale the same to him so long as in that whereunto we are come we proceed by one rule that we may minde one thing But wee are specially to note the reason which our Sauiour addeth to the words alleaged When he is come which is the spirit of truth he will leade you into all truth for he shall not speake of himselfe but whatsoeuer he shall beare shall he speake meaning thereby the same that he hath before said h Ioh. 14.26 He shall teach you all things
seede of Abraham t cap. 9.28 We be Moses disciples u vers 41. We see x Ier. 8 8. We are wise and the law of the Lord is with vs y ca. 18.18 The law shall not perish from the Priest nor counsell from the wise nor the word from the Prophet and yet they persecuted Christ the sonne of God who only is the Truth How then may we now be assured that the Church of Rome is not the same to the church of Christ as they then were to Christ himselfe How may we poore creatures certainely vnderstand that those rich creatures are not subiect to error and mistaking as well as we Well if we will not beleeue it we may chuse but assurance M. Bishop can yeeld none He can tell vs a discourse what Christ said to Peter but that Christ euer spake either of Pope or Cardinall he can shew vs nothing And yet as if this matter were cleere he telleth vs of this church of theirs that whereas we are subiect to mistaking and errour God hath ordained and appointed the same to be a skilfull and faithfull mistresse and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it But againe we aske him where hath God so ordained and appointed in what Scripture hath he written it or by what words hath he expressed it that the church which he meaneth should bee our mistresse to tell vs what is Gods word what is the true meaning of it If he haue euidence authority for it let him shew it if he haue not what shall we thinke of him that dareth thus to bely the maiesty of God But if he considered the matter aright he would conceiue that those rich creatures of his haue no other or better meanes to assure what is Gods word and what is the meaning of it than other poore creatures haue By what touchstone they can make triall thereof by the same can we also as well as they Which comparison of the gold-smith and the touchstone which he himselfe vseth if it be rightly explicated serueth notably to set foorth the fraud and falshood of that church for which he pleadeth True it is that the church in this behalfe may rightly bee compared to the Goldsmith Now the Gold-smith for the discerning of true and perfect gold doth not take his owne fingers ends but goeth to the touch-stone and no otherwise can hee either make triall himselfe or giue assurance thereof to other men In like sort therefore the church which is the Gold-smith must vse a touch-stone for the assuring of that which it propoundeth to bee receiued and beleeued Now then whereas M. Bishop saith that we must rely vpon the churches declaration to be assured which bookes of Scripture be Canonicall I answer him that we cannot be assured thereof by the churches declaration vnlesse the church declare it and manifest it by the touch-stone The touch-stone whereby we are to take assurance heereof is the constant and perpetuall tradition and testimony of the former church And this testimony we first deriue from the church of the Iewes z Rom. 3.2 to whom the words of God were committed and to whose Scriptures a Luk. 24.44 the law and the Prophets and the Psalmes and to no other b Aug. cont Gaudent lib. 2. cap. 23. quibus dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis Christ himselfe hath giuen testimony as witnesses of himselfe reckoning them for c Luk. 24.27 all the Scriptures and wherof the Iewes in their dispersion giue acknowledgment vntill this day God so prouiding that d Aust in Psa 58. Per omnes gentes dispersi sunt ludaei testes iniquitatis suae veritatis nostrae ipsi habent codices de quibus prophetatus est Chrislus in Ps 56. Codicem portat Iudaeus vnde credat Christianus Christian faith should be prooued out of those bookes which are acknowledged for true by them that are enemies thereto This testimony the Christian church receiued of the Apostles and hath continued the same together with the acknowledgment of those other bookes of the new testament which by the Apostles and Euangelists were added to the former What bookes then haue had this generall and vndoubted auerment and witnesse of the church continued from time to time those and no other are to be holden for Canonicall bookes and this is the true touch-stone for trial of certaine and vndoubted scriptures By which touchstone the church of Rome is found to bee not a faithfull Mistresse but a false harlot bringing her bastards into the Church and forcing men to take them for lawfully begotten And whereas it is the tradition and declaration of the former church which hath beene from the beginning by which both they and we are to be instructed as touching the true bookes of Canonicall Scripture they force vpon vs the tradition of their owne church now deliuered vpon their owne word howsoeuer contrary to that which the church formerly hath declared If we follow the declaration of the ancient church then are no other bookes to be taken for Canonicall but what are now accknowledged and approoued in our Church the same onely being testified concerning the old testament by the Church of the Iewes concerning both new and old by the whole Christian church both the Greeke and Latine the Easterne and Westerne churches as e Of Traditions sect 17. before hath been declared But the church of Rome perceiuing the authorising of some other writings to be likely to gaine credit to some broken wares whence her thrift and gaine ariseth hath taken vpon her very presumptuously as a Mistresse or rather a goddesse to giue diuine authority to those bookes reiecting the testimony of that church which in this behalfe should bee mistresse both to her and vs. In a word whatsoeuer is to be attributed to the church in this respect it is idlely by M. Bishop referred to the church of Rome as if all other churches must rely vpon her declaration we our selues being able by the touchstone to make triall of true Scriptures as well as the church of Rome and therefore there being no cause why we should rely vpon them more than they vpon vs. And as vainely doth he apply to his purpose the saying of Saint Austin that he should not beleeue the Gospell except the authority of the church mooued him thereunto there being nothing therein meant but what may bee applied to the church England as well as to the church of Rome Saint Austin speaking generally of the vniuersall church thorowout the world without any maner speciall intendment of the church of Rome But how leudly they abuse those words of Austin wholly against his meaning and purpose I haue f Of Traditions sect 22. before sufficiently declared and neede not heere to repeat againe As for the churches declaration for vnderstanding the Scripture that is also to be tried and made
good by the touchstone because no exposition or sense of Scripture is to be admitted the doctrine whereof is not to be iustified by other Scripture and they that bring other senses and meanings do but deceiue men and leade them into errour as other heretikes formerly haue done and as the Papists now doe abusing the Scriptures to draw others after them into destruction Heereof also enough hath beene said g Of Traditions sect 21. before whereof I wish the Reader duely to consider for his satisfaction in this point That which he saith of other ancient Creeds and Confessions of faith that they containe not all points of Christian doctrine I eaily admit but yet let him vnderstand that it is a maine preiudice against them that neither any ancient Creed nor any exposition of the Creed or confession of faith conteineth sundry pointes which they now make to be matters of the meaning of the Creede Let him shew that euer any ancient Creed or expositour of the Creed did vnderstand or deliuer that the name of the Catholike church in the Creed hath any speciall reference to the Church of Rome that the Catholike church is to be defined as they now define it by being subiect to the bishop of Rome that the certaine declaration of the Canonicall bookes and of the true sense of Scripture is alwaies infallibly to be expected from the sentence of that Church that all Christians are fully to beleeue and wholly to relie vpon that Church for resolution of all points of faith necessarie to saluation Which and such other points made by them matters of the Creed because neuer any ancient writer hath found to be conteined or intended in the Creed therefore we iustly affirme them to be new Creed-makers coiners of new articles of faith and thereby peruerters and corrupters of the true Christian faith As concerning the Articles mentioned by M. Perkins now holden by the Romish Church that the Pope is Christs Vicar and head of the Catholike Church that there is a purgatorie fire after this life that images of God and of Saints are to be worshipped that praier is to be made to Saints departed and their intercession to bee required that there is a propitiatorie sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of quicke and dead M. Bishop answereth that the Fathers haue most plainly taught them in their writings and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions But what Fathers are they and in what writings haue they so done Surely if the Bishop of Rome in the ancient Church had beene taken to bee the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike church it cannot be but that we should haue very currant and frequent and memorable testimonie thereof as a matter vniuersally receiued and euery where practised But now let M. Bishop shew vs one let him shew so much as one that for diuers hundreds of yeeres after Christ did euer dreame of any such thing Which though indeed he cannot doe yet hee telleth vs of that and the rest that in those seuerall questions he hath before prooued what he saith whereas hee hath not spoken of any more of these points saue onely one and in that one point cannot be said to haue prooued any thing because whatsoeuer hee hath said standeth hitherto reprooued And surely if he haue no better proofes than hitherto he hath brought in all the questions that hee hath handled the Protestants will but scorne him as a very vnproouing disputer and aduise him to bestow his time a while longer in the Schooles to know what it is to prooue 3. W. BISHOP Touching beleeuing in the Church which he thrusteth in by the way we vse not that phrase as the very Creed sheweth following therein S. Augustine with others who hold that to beleeue in a thing is to make it our Creatour by giuing our whole heart vnto it in which sense we beleeue not in Saints nor in the Church albeit some other ancient Doctors take the words to beleeue in not so precisely but say that we may beleeue in the Church and in Saints that is beleeue certainly that the Catholike church is the onely true company of Christians and that to the lawfull gouernours thereof it appeâ—taineth to declare both which bookes be Canonicall and what is the true meaning of all doubtfull places in them so we beleeue the Saints in heauen to heare our prayers to be carefull to pray for vs and to bee able to obtaine by intreaty much at Gods hands in whose high fauour they liue Thus much in answer vnto that which M. PERKINS obiecteth in generall Now to that he saith in particular R. ABBOT a Greg. Nazia de sp sancto orat 6. Sâ—â—reatuÌ„ est quo pacto in ipsum eredimu c. Non enim idem est in aliquem credere de eo credere nam illud diuimt atis est hoc cuiusuis rei It is one thing saith Gregory Nazianzene to beleeue in any one another to beleeue of or concerning him the one belongeth to the Godhead the other is vsed of euery thing And heereby hee prooueth that the holy Ghost is God because wee beleeue in the holy Ghost By which argument our Sauiour Christ also teacheth vs to acknowledge him to be God when he saith b Ioh. 14.1 Yee beleeue in God beleeue also in me where c Hilar. de Trin. lib. 9. Vniens se fidei dei naturae eius vniuit c. deumse per id docens cum in eum credendum sit ab his qui in deum credant vniting himselfe to the beleefe of God saith Hilarie he vniteth himselfe also to his nature thereby teaching that he himselfe is God for that they who beleeue in God must beleeue in him I might further enlarge this point by the testimonies and expositions of d Aug. in Ioan. tract 29. de ciu dei l. 18. ca. 54. Euseb Emissen Ruffin Venant in symbol Apost Austin Eusebius Emissenus Ruffinus Venantius and others who all acknowledge that that phrase belongeth to God and is not to bee applied to any creature But it shall not neede because the Elucidatour of the Romane Catechisme according to the doctrine of the Catechisme it self as he pretendeth though quite contrary both to their doctrine and practise otherwise doth tell vs that e Elucidat Catech Roman c. 9. q. 5. Cùm dicimus nos credere in deum patrem in filium in sp sanctum phrasis haec loquendi significat nos ita credere deum patrem filium spiritu sanctuÌ„ vt etiam in eis omnem fiduciam nostram collocemus quam in deo solo non autem in creaturis ponere possumus ex quibus tamen ecclesia composita est when wee say wee beleeue in God the Father in the Sonne in the holy Ghost this phrase of speaking doth signifie that wee so beleeue God the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost as that also we place all
our confidence in them which we are to put in God onely and not increatures of which notwithstanding the Church consisteth Which exposition wee acknowledge conteineth the very trueth agreeable to Gods word and doe wish that they would alwaies continue constant therein But they doe heerein as their vsuall maner is what by euidence of truth they are forced to say in one place for the maintenance of their owne traditions and superstitions they vnsay it or qualifie it in another And in this sort M. Bishop heere dealeth who first inclining somewhat to that construction alreadie mentioned and telling vs that to beleeue in a thing is to make it our Creatour by giuing our whole heart vnto it alleageth notwithstanding that some ancient Doctours take the words to beleeue in not so precisely but say that wee may beleeue in the church and in Saints heereby to make way to his absurd conceits which none of the ancient Doctours dreamed of it is true indeed that Epiphanius and Cyril haue vsed that maner of speech by adding the preposition in to the rest of the articles I beleeue in one holy Catholike church in one Baptisme in the remission of sinnes in the resurrection of the body in the life eternal but yet making thereof no other construction than we do as if the article were away To beleeue in the church was with them as M. Bishop saith to beleeue certainly in the Catholike church to be the onely true company of Christians and thereof we contend not wee beleeue the same as well as they though not in M. Bishops meaning which neuer was any part of their meaning that the Catholike church should be meant in any speciall maner of the church of Rome But whereas he addeth it is another part of their construction that to the lawfull gouernours thereof that is as he intendeth to the Pope and his Cardinals and Bishops it appertaineth to declare both which bookes be Canonicall and what is the true meaning of all doubtfull places in them he verie shamefully abuseth the ancient Doctours of whom there is not one that hath noted any such matter to be conteined in the Creed If hee know any let him acquaint vs therewith if hee know none let him confesse to his Reader as he must that he hath sought to deceiue him with a lie The same I say of beleeuing in Saints for which of the ancient Doctours hath taught vs out of our Creed that we are to beleeue in them He telleth vs what they meant by it that wee beleeue the Saints in heauen to heare our praiers to be carefull to pray for vs and to be able to obteine by intreatie much at Gods hands But what a strange man is he that will tell vs what men meant by words which they neuer spake Surely to beleeue in Saints is no antiquitie but nouelty and the deuice of him who by beleeuing in Saints seeketh to draw men away from beleefe in God The Apostle telleth vs that f Rom. 10 17. Faith is by hearing and hearing by the word of God Thereupon Basil gathereth thus g Basil Ethit reg 80. Si quicquid ex fide non est peccatum est fides verò ex auditu auditus autem pâ—r verbum Dei est ergo quicquid extra diuinam Scripturam est cùm ex fide non sit peccatum est If whatsoeuer is not of faith bee sinne and faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word of God surely whatsoeuer is beside the Scripture of God because it is not of faith is sinne Let M. Bishop then shew vs some word of God some warrant of Scripture that it is one point of faith to beleeue in Saints or if hee cannot so doe we must rest perswaded as we are that to beleeue in Saints is to sinne against God And if we may not beleeue in Saints then neither may we pray vnto them for h Rom. 10.14 how shall they call vpon him saith the Apostle in whom they haue not beleeued And seeing praier is i Grego Moral lib. 22. cap. 13. Vera postulatio non in oris est vocibus sed in cogitationibus cordis not a matter of the lippes but of the heart how can wee beleeue that the Saints in heauen heare our praiers when as the word of God telleth vs that k 1. King 8.39 it is God only which knoweth the hearts of all the children of men Againe seeing God hath himselfe named vnto vs the Mediator by whose intrety l Mat. 3.17 Ephe. 3.12 for whose sake he wil accept vs and in whom he will be m Iohn 14.13 glorified for the granting of our requests who n Rom. 8.34 sitteth at the right hand of God and o Heb. 7.25 euer liueth to make intercession for vs how can we call it faith and not rather impudent presumption that we of our owne heads should set vp euery Saint in heauen to be a Master of requests and disturbe that order which God himselfe hath appointed for our accesse to him Admit that in generality they pray for the consummation of their brethren they pray in fellowship of loue not by authority of mediation as ioined in affection with vs not as by specialtie of fauour appointed to be patrons for vs for in that respect it is true which Saint Austin telleth vs that p August in Psam 64. Solus ibi ex his qui carnem gustaverunt interpellat pro nobis of all that haue beene partakers of flesh it is Christ onely in heauen that maketh intercession for vs. To conclude we haue heard before out of the Catechisme that our beleeuing in God requireth all our confidence and trust to be placed in God onely Accordingly Cyprian saith that q Cyprian de dupl martyr Non credit in deum qui non in eo solo collocat totius felicitatis suae fidutiam he beleeueth not in God that placeth not the confidence of all his happinesse in God onely But beleeuing in Saints cannot be vnderstood but to import putting of trust and confidence in them Therefore we cannot beleeue in Saints but with the ouerthrow of our beleefe and trust in God And that the Popish beleeuing in Saints importeth the putting of their trust and confidence in them it plainly appeareth as by other their offices of deuotion so specially by their Ladies Psalter wherein they blasphemously vse to the Virgin Marie those words whereby Dauid professed his trust in God r Psalter Mariae Psal 7. Domina in te speraui de inimicis meis libera animam meam Psal 10. In domina confido propter dulcedinem misericordiae nominis sui psal 21. Quia ego speraui in gratia tua sempiternum a me opprobrium abstulisti Psal 45. Domina refugium nostrum tu es in omni necessitate nostra Psal 53 Domina in nomine tuo saluum me fac O Lady in thee haue I hoped deliuer my soule from mine enemies I
expresse tearmes teacheth O miracle O goodnesse of God! he that sitteth aboue with his Father at the very same instant is touched with the handes of all men Real presence denied by our beleefe of Christs ascension and giueth himselfe to them that will receiue and embrace him See more of this in the question of the blessed Sacrament where M. PER. citeth the very same authorities which he heere repeateth see my answer to to them there R. ABBOT It is a true argument and very consequent Christ is ascended into heauen and there sitteth at the right hand of God the father therefore hee is not really and locally in the sacrament The connexion is Saint Austins a August in Ioan tract 50. Conuersatus est secundum corporis praesentiam quadraginta diebus cum discipulis suis eis deducentibus videndo non sequendo ascend it in caeluÌ„ non est hîc He is ascended into heauen and is not heere as touching the presence of his body Saint Austin saith that because he is ascended therefore as touching his body he is not heere M. Bishop saith that notwithstanding his ascension he is still heere according to his body Whether now may we thinke is more likely of these two to bee beleeued But M. Bishop to saue himselfe will set Chrysostome and Austin together by the eares Forsooth Chrysostome reporteth it as a miracle that he who sitteth aboue with his father at the very same instant is touched with the hands of all men and giueth himselfe to them that will receiue and embrace him What Chrysostomes minde was in this behalfe appeareth by that which otherwhere he saith that b Chrysost op imperf hom 11. In vasis sanctifacatis non est verum corpus Christi sed mysterium corporis eius continetur in the holy vessels not the true body of Christ but the mystery of his body is contained And by this mystery of his body Saint Austin saith that e August epist 23. Secundum quendam modum sacramentum corporis Christi corpus Christi est after a certaine maner it is the body of Christ and Cyprian saith that d Cyprian de resurrect Christi Quod videtur nonane virtute Christs corpus censetur in name and power it is accounted the body of Christ. As therefore Saint Austin saith that e August in Psal 33. conc 2. Ipse se portabat quodammodo cum diceret Hoc est corpus meum Christ did in some sort beare himselfe in his owne hands when he said This is my body in some sort he saith or after a sort not verily and indeed so Chrysostome intendeth that he who sitteth at the right hand of God is after a sort touched in the Sacrament with the hands of all the partakers thereof not as touching the reality but as touching the mysterie of his body yet so wherein consisteth the miracle which Chrysostome mentioneth as that he indeed giueth himselfe spiritually and by faith to all them that are truely willing to receiue him And in what meaning Chrysostme spake those words we may easily conceiue by other words which he vseth in the very same place f Chrysost de sacerd lib. 3. Dum conspicis dominum immolatum Sacerdotem sacrificio incumbentem ac preces fundentem tum verò turbam circumfusam pretioso illo sanguine intingi ac rubefieri etiamnè te inter mortales versari atque in terra confistere censes annon potiùs evestigiò ad caelum transferris annon omnem ca niâ—câ—gitationem abijcreâ—s mente â—ura circumspieâ—â—quae in ceâ—â— sunt O miraiu um O dâ—â— bemgintatem qâ—â— cum patre sursum sedet in illo ipsotemporis articulo on nium manibus pertractatur aâ— sâ—â—pâ—â— tradit wâ—â—tibus ipsum excipere accâ—mâ—lecti fit autem id nullis praestigijs sed apertis acâ—â—reumspâ—tientibus circumsistentium omnium occutis When thou seest the Lord offered the Priest leaning to the Sacrifice and powring foorth praier and the people round about died and made red with that pretious blood doest thou thinke that thou art amongst mortall men or standing vpon the earth Art thou not foorthwith lift vp to heauen Doest thou not cast away all carnall cogitation and with pure minde behold those things which are in heauen aboue Then vsing the words which M. Bishop hath alleaged he addeth And this is done not by collusion but so as that the standers by with open eies behold all that is done Let M. Bishop now tell vs doe the standers by with open eies see Christ offered Are they made red with the bloud of Christ Must they thinke that they are indeed carried vp to heauen and are not vpon the earth If he cannot deny but that these words are vsed by excesse and vehemencie of speech to drawe the mindes of his hearers to diuine and heauenly meditation of the mysteries then in hand can hee deny but that wee haue iust cause to vnderstand the other words in the very same sort The other testimonies cited by M. PER. out of Vigilius Fulgentius Austin doe make the same good because they shew that Christ according to his manhood is not really vpon the earth M. Bishop biddeth vs see his answeres to those authorities but as yet we doe not see them and if euer we do see them we shall see him as wise or rather as wilfull in them as he hath beene in all the rest 6. W. BISHOP Thirdly he reasoneth thus The Church as it is beleeued is not seene In that we beleeue the Catholike Church it followeth that it is inuisible because things seene are not beleeued We answer that the persons in the Catholike Church are and euer were visible euen to Iewes and Heathens who persecuted them but the inward indowments of those persons that is their faith hope and charity their assistance by Gods spirit and such like Christian qualities are inuisible to be beleeued And euen as a man is truely said to be visible though he consist aswell of an inuisible soule as of a visible body so the Church is visible for the vsible persons visible teaching and administring of Sacraments in it albeit the inward qualities of it be not visible R. ABBOT a Origen in Cant. hom 1. Ecclesiam coetum omnium aduerte sanctoâ—um Et hom 2. Ecclesia ante constitutionem mundi sic enim dicit Paulus sicut elegit nos in Christo c. The holy Chatholike church is the company of Gods saints whom he hath elected in Christ before the foundations of the world and b Gregor in Cantic cap. 3. Secundum praescientiae suae gratiam Christus sanctam ecclesiam de in aeternum permansurissanctis construxit whom he hath by the grace of his foreknowledge appointed to continue with him for euer It is c Ephe. 1.23 the body and d Reuel 21 9. Spouse of Christ e Reuel 5 9. redeemed and f 1. Pet. 1.2 sprinkled with his bloud g
against our religion out of the Creed which as you haue seene consisteth wholly vpon his owne forced exposition and vaine illations R. ABBOT That our profession of saith in the Creed importeth a particular application of those things which we beleeue Romission of sinnes is beleeued not wrought hath beene sufficiently declared a Sect. 3. before in the question of the certainty of saluation M. Bishop referreth his Reader to that question as hauing there iustified what he saith heere but with what face can he so doe before he hath made it appeare that he is able to defend what he hath said there What exceptions he hath vsed there the same he vseth heere he giueth them no further strength he cleereth them not from those answers whereby hath beene shewed the inualidity of them but goeth on with his cuckowes note saying ouer and ouer still one and the same thing But his adding of conditions is the destroying of the nature of true faith which when it professeth to beleeue the remission of sinnes doth therby disclaime the working of it resting vpon Gods promise b Agust in Psal 88. Non sâ—cundiâ—m merita nostra sed secundùm miserecordiam eius firma est promissio which as S. Austin saith is sure not according to our merits but according to his owne mercy c Iere. 31.34 I will forgiue their iniquities and their sinnes wil I remember no more His sacrament of penance we know not because Christ hath not taught it but the true Sacraments which Christ hath ordained are to the faithfull repentant not workes of merit whereby they purchase but seales and confirmations of Gods gift whereby hee freely bestoweth the remission of sinnes As for the keeping of Gods commandements we say with S. Iohn He that saith he knoweth him that is as Gregory Bishop of Rome expoundeth it d Gregor in Ezechiel hom 22. De fide operatione Ioannes fatetur dicens Qui dicit se nosse deum c. he that saith he beleeueth in him keepeth not his commandements is a liar and there is no truth in him e Rom. 7.12 The commandement is holy and iust and good and f Heb. 12.14 without holinesse no man shall see God But the keeping of Gods commandements is one thing according to the condition of the law another according to the precept and exhortation of the Gospell The Gospell fauourably commendeth vnto vs the keeping thereof as a fruit of faith the law strictly requireth it as the condition of eternall life The Gospell admitteth forgiuenesse of that that by humane frailty is left vndone the law is neuer satisfied vnlesse g Gal. 3.10 all be done Therefore if the beleefe of out obteining eternall life must rest vpon our workes according to the law we can neuer haue assurance of faith because we can neuer finde sufficiency and contentment in our owne works It followeth therefore that to build the faith of the Gospell vpon the workes of the Law is to confound the Law and the Gospell and to destroy the truth of faith h Rom. 4.14 If they which are of the law be heires saith the Apostle then faith is made voide and the promise is made of none effect But i v. 16. therefore it is of faith that it may be of grace and therefore k Rom. 11.6 not of workes and the promise may be sure to all the seed that is to all that beleeue according to the example of Abrahams faith Now then whereas M. Bishop saith that he beleeueth to haue life euerlasting if hee keepe the commandements that is no beleefe at all because he cannot keepe the commandements as is required for couenant of eternal life Whereas he telleth vs that he may haue a very good hope by Gods grace to performe them his owne heart telleth him that he saith vntruely because he knoweth himselfe debarred from that hope by God himselfe by whose words we are taught that l Eccles 7.22 there is not a man iust in the earth that doth good and sinneth not and that m Iames 3.2 in many things we offend all and that n Psal 143.2 in Gods sight no man liuing shall bee found righteous Therefore amidst all our keeping of Gods commandements amidst all our fightings and wrastlings against sinne we stil hold fast that confession that the iust euen the iust shall liue by faith because all our iustice in this life is maimed and halting and o August de ciu det lib. 19. cap. 27. Ipsa iustitia nostra tanta est in hac vita vt potiùs remissione peccatoruÌ„ constet quà m prefectione virtutum consisteth rather in forgiuenesse of sinnes than in perfection of vertues It remaineth therefore that true faith is the apprehension and particular application of the promise of God expecting the effect and participation thereof not for any workes of ours but for his owne mercies sake Of which faith it followeth indeed that we turne from our sinnes and conforme our will to Gods will and abide in the lap of the Catholike church but these are effects and not causes of that state of saluation which we attaine by faith onely Saint Austin therefore requiring these things doth not shake his owne assertion of particular faith whereby he teacheth a man as M. Perkins sheweth to beleeue as touching himselfe the remission of sinnes the resurrection of the body and euerlasting life As for the contradiction which M. Bishop noteth in M. PER. words it is more in his conceit than it is indeed He saith heere that the act of faith is particularly to apply he saith elsewhere that faith notwithstanding doth not alwaies attaine to a distinct application by formall proposition but that it is sometimes inuolued and inlapped in sighes and grones in desires and praiers to God which cannot be without an expectance of Gods goodnesse and mercy and yet a perplexed and trouled minde by questioning it selfe cannot see so much in it selfe He saith againe that some define faith generally to be a certaine and full perswasion which he calleth so high a reach as few can attaine vnto because as there is strong faith to perswade certainely and fully so there is also weake faith which apprehendeth and perswadeth comfortably but yet not with fulnesse and vndoubted certainty He saith nothing heere contrary to this because whether it be strong faith to apply strongly or weake faith to apply weakely yet both serue in their degree particularly to apply It is then M. Bishops want of vnderstanding heere that maketh him to mistake not M. PER. heate of quarrelling that maketh him to forget But now to shew what Saint Austins opinioÌ„ is concerning these matters of beleefe he bringeth vs two sentences the one to shew that by ordinary faith a man cannot bee certaine of his saluation the other that a man once truely iustified may afterwards finally fal away both tending to this that a man cannot be said by the
cap. 3. Et nuncille viuit in sinu Abraham He now liueth in Abrahams bosome Now then we are come to this that because Abrahams bosome is in heauen and Christs descending to hell was no other but his going to Abrahams bosome therefore the meaning of Christs descending into hell is that hee ascended vp to heauen It were well that they should first cleere these matters for themselues and make good their owne assertion before they should take in hand to question ours Whatsoeuer the meaning bee of Christs desecending into hell we are sure that that which they bring is vaine and false Now the article of Christs descending into hell being according to their exposition impertinent and idle and no vse to bee made thereof in the Creede some in respect thereof haue thought the same to haue crept into it of latter time and not to haue beene there from the beginning and some it may be for I know it not neither dare I take M. Bishops word for it haue quite omitted it in the Creed Neither doe they want inducements heereunto from the ancient church in which there are many Creedes and confessions of faith in which there is no mention of Christs descending into hell And heerein we are to note Doct. Bishop to be a man singularly impudent who alleageth the article to be in the old Roman Creed expounded by Ruffinus whereas the words of Ruffinus himselfe doe expressely affirme the contrary n Ruffin in exposit symb Apost Sciendum sanè est quòd in ecclesiae Romanae symbolo non habetur additum Descenditad inferna sed neque in Orientis ecclesiis habetur hic sermo We are to know saith he that in the Creed of the Roman church it is not added that he descended into hell neither are those words vsed by the Easterne churches The Nicene Creed saith nothing of it which in likelihood would not haue omitted it if it had beene found in the ancienter Creed of the Apostles Saint Austin hath o Tom. 9. de symb vel reg fidei ad Catechumenos foure expositions of the Creed in one place and p Tom. 3. de fide symbolo one in another and in none of these expositions is it found that Christ descended into hell Tertullian hath q Tertul. de praescript adu Praxean de veland virginib three declarations of the rule of faith and this point is not found in any of them Neither doth Ireneus mention it where r Iren. adu heres lib. 1. c. 2. lib. 3. cap. 4. twice he expresseth the Apostolike faith There is a confession of faith set downe by Å¿ Synod Roma tom 1. Concil a Synod at Rome in the time of Iulius the first another in the t Concil Constantin 1 cap. 7. first Councel of Constantinople another in a Councell at u Synod Aleuand apud Cyril in Concitio Ephes Alexandria confirmed by the Councel of Ephesus and many other moe wherein there is nothing said of Christs descending into hell Thus from many examples and authorities of the ancient church those men parhaps thinke that they haue warrant to leaue out that article without being culpable of any violation of Christian faith And although Athanasius and sundry other in their writings haue deliuered this as a point of faith yet they hold that those acts and instruments of publicke recognition which are very frequent to this purpose do ouerwaigh priuate iudgements and are sufficient to excuse or defend that that is done by them But for our parts wee see no sufficient reason to moue vs to follow them herein We see diuers phrases of Scripture tending to the assertion of this article of our beleefe We read our Sauiour Christ professing his reioycing to his Father x Acts. 2.27 Psal 16.10 for that he would not leaue his soule in hell which is vainely spoken if the soule of Christ were not at all in hell Therefore we admit the article and in the confession of our faith we alwaies recite it neither doth any man make question to doe otherwise But M. Bishop excepteth against the variety of expositions that are found amongst vs concerning the same And what is there no variety of expositions thereof to be found amongst them Doe they all so accord in one as that we can obserue no difference of one from another first that learned deuout Authour Durand as M. Bishop y Preface to the Reader sect 5. before hath stiled him doth hold that z Durand apud Bellarm. de Christianima cap. 15. Christ descended not into hell at all by reall presence but only by effect and power a Tho. Aquin. sum p. 3. q. 52. art 2. in concl Christus secundùm effectum in omnem inferâ—â— locum descendit secùndum verò substantialem praesentiâ—m non descendit nisi ad locum iustorum Thomas Aquinas determineth that by reall presence he went onely to Limbus Patrum but to the other parts of hell he descended by vertue and power Bellarmine setteth it down for b Bellarm. de Christianima c. 16. Probabile est profectò animam Christi ad omnia inferni loâ—a descendisse probable that the soule of Christ did verily descend to all the places of hell Thomas Aquinas resolueth that c Tho. Aqui. vt supra art 4. in concl Animam Christi tamdiu fuisse in inferno credendum est quamdin corpus fuit in sepulchro the soule of Christ was so long in hell as his body was in the graue and so they commonly hold as did Vigilius of old d Vig. â—o Eutyc lib. 2. Anima Christi per illud triduum in inferno that for those three daies space the soule of Christ was in hell But S. Austin holdeth it a thing impious to be affirmed e Augst cont Felic Arian ca. 15. Si mortuo corpore ad paradisum anima latronis mox vocatur quenquamnè adhuc tam impium credimus qui dicere audeat quoniam anima saluatoris nostri triduo illo corporeae mortis apud inferos custodiae mancipetur that the soule of the theefe being foorthwith called to Paradise the soule of our Sauiour should for the three daies space of his bodily death be in custody in hell Thomas Aquinas is of opinion that f Thom. Aquin. sum pa. 3. qu. 52. art 1. in corp Conueniens fuit Christen ad infernum descendere quia ipse venerat portare poenas nostras vt nos a poena eriperet ex peccatâ— autem homo incurrerat non solum mortem corporis sed etiam descensum ad inseros it behooued that Christ should goe to hell because he came to beare our punishments so to deliuer vs from the same and we by sinne had incurred not onely bodily death but also going to hell But Bonauenture saith and to him Bellarmine inclineth that g Bellerm de Christi anima cap. 16. ex Bonauentura Dicit Christi animam
to the Father and the Son that we make the holy Ghost much inferiour to the other persons And how may that appeare Marry in their French Catechismes they teach saith he that the Father alone is to bee adored in the name of his sonne But what because they say the Father alone must they needes be taken to exclude the holy Ghost Hath he not so much diuinity as to know that the name of the Father is sometimes vsed for distinction of persons sometimes indefinitely of God without any such distinction When our Sauiour saith a Matt. 23.9 One is your Father who is in heauen doth not the name of Father there extend to God the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost Doth it not so also where the Apostel saith b Eph. 4 6. There is one God and Father of all who is aboue all and through all and in you all Doth M. Bishop otherwise vnderstand it when he saith Our Father which art in heauen Surely the French Catechisme may say as he rereporteth who yet seldome reporteth truth yet import nothing therby but what Origen saith ChristiaÌ„s of old did namely c Origen cont Cels â— 8 Christiani soli Deo per Iesum preces offerentes to offer praiers to God only by Iesus or in the name of Iesus The next cauil against Calum is of the same kind that the title of Creatour belongeth only to the Father Which M. Bishop might well haue vnderstood in the distinctioÌ„ of the persoÌ„s by their seueral attributes as d Calu. Opus in Explicat perfidiae Valent. Gâ—ntil Certè vnâ— consensu fatemur Christum impropriè vocari creatorem coeli terrae quoad personae distinctionem Neque enim dubium est quin seriptura patri nomen Creatoris vendicans personas distinguat Caluin setteth it down to be very true and the rather for that in the very articles of the Creed he findeth it so applied I beleeue in God the Father almighty maker of heauen and earth For although it be true which S. Austin oftentimes deliuereth that e August de praedest sanctor cap. 8. Inseparabilia dicimus â—sse opera Trinitatis the workes of the Trinity are inseparable and in the act of any of the persons is the concurrence of all yet they so concurre as that they retaine therein their seuerall proprieties so as that of seuerall actions arise seuerall denominations which in common phrase of speech are vsed as in some specialty belonging to one person rather than another As therefore we attribute it to the sonne alone to haue redeemed vs and to the holy Ghost alone to sanctifie vs albeit both the Father and the holy Ghost had their worke in our redemption and the Father and the Sonne haue their worke also in sanctifying vs euen so to the Father alone the title of Creatour is applied not but that the Sonne and the holy Ghost haue their worke in the creation but because f Origen cont Cels lib. 8. Dicimus immediatum opificeâ— esse fiâ—um dei verbum c. Verâ— autâ—m patrem curus mandato munduâ— sit per ipsum filium conditus esse primarium opincem the Father is the primary or principall worker as Origen saith at whose commandement the world was created by the Sonne and g Hilar. de Synod adu Aria Si suis vnum dicens deum Christum autem deum ante secula filium dei obsecutum patri in creatione omnium non confitetur anathema sit wherein as the Syrmian Councel saith and Hilary approoueth the Sonne did obedience to the Father As for the rest that he heere quarelleth at that the Father is called the first degree and cause of life and the Sonne the second and againe that the father holdeth the first ranke of honour and gouernment and the sonne the second not to question the truth of his allegations I would in a word aske his wisdome doth he that saith that the Father is the first person in Trinity and the Sonne the second deny thereby the holy Ghost to be the third or doth hee hereby exclude the holy Ghost from hauing part with the Father and the Sonne Doth the Apostle when in his epistles he saith h Rom. 1 7. 1. Cor. 1.3 et in reliq Grace and peace from God our Father and from our Lord Iesus Christ doth he I say exclude heereby the holy Ghost from being the authour of grace and peace or from hauing part with the Father and the Sonne Or when he saith i 2. Cor. 1.3 Ephe 1.3 Blessed be God euen the Father of our Lord Iesus Christ doth he deny the Sonne and the holy Ghost to be blessed and praised together with the Father If he doe not why then doth this idle headed Sophister thus take exception where there is nothing for him iustly to except against Forsooth at most saith he the holy Ghost must be content with the third degree of honour But what M. Bishop doe not you also place the holy Ghost in the third degree when you name him the third person Doth not your head serue you to vnderstand degree of order only without imparity or minority as all Diuines in this case are woont to do But why doe I thus contend with a blinde buzzard a wilfull and ignorant wrangler and not rather reiect him as a man worthy to be altogether contemned and derided He hath k Preface to the Reader sect 7. before cited the latter of these words to shew that Caluin made the Sonne of God inferiour to the Father but how leaudly he dealeth in the alleaging of it and to how small purpose it is there declared there is no cause here to speake thereof 12. W. BISHOP 9. one I beleeue the holy Catholike Church the communion of Saints First where as there is but on Catholike church as the Councel of Nice expresly defineth following sundry texts of the word of God they commonly teach that there be two churches one inuisible of the elect another visible of both good and bad holy Secondly they imagine it to be holy by the imputation of Christs holinesse to the elected Bretheren and not by the infusion of the holy Ghost into the hearts of all the faithfull Catholike Thirdly they cannot abide the name Catholike in the true sense of it that is they will not beleeue the true Church to haue beene alwaies visibly extant since the Apostles time and to haue beene generally spread into all countries otherwise they must needes forsake their owne church which began with Friar Luther and is not receiued generally in the greatest part of the Christian world Finally they beleeue no Church no not their owne in all points of faith but hold that the true Church may erre in some principall points of faith How then can any man safely relie his saluation vpon the credite of such an vncertaine ground and erring guide may they not then as well say that they
do not beleeue the one Catholike Church because they doe as well not beleeue it as beleeue it And as for the communion of Saints their learned Masters doe commonly cassier it out of the Creed and that not without cause For by the Saints vnderstanding as the Apostles did all good Christans whether aliue or departed this world they that deny praier to Saints and for the soules in Purgatory haue reason to reiect the common society and enter course that is betweene the Saints and the mutuall honour and help which such good Christian soules doe yeeld and afford one to another R. ABBOT The holy Catholike church which wee beleeue in the Creed being the communion of Saints is onely one The Catholike Church only one which is the body of Christ whereof all the faithfull are members being ioyned into this society by one spirit Visible and Inuisible being but circumstances cannot argue any multiplication of the church because the inuisible church importeth all them and them only who are the true members in their time of the visible church For in the visible church the name of the church properly belongeth to them onely who liue by faith and by the spirit of Christ the rest are not members but a August in 1 Ioan. epist tract 3. Sic sunt in corpore Christi quomodo humores mali as euill humours in the body which wait their time to be purged out In the meane time because all professe to seeke Christ and to serue him and our eies cannot distinguish betwixt them that truely doe so and them that doe not therefore visibly and to vs all goe together vnder the name of the church though many there be hypocrites and time seruers who with God and to his sight are no part thereof So then the church visible and inuisible in substance are the same they differ only in respect and M. Bishop knoweth that respects change not the natures of things and therefore those different respects doe nothing hinder but that the church in nature is alwaies one As touching the holinesse of the church M. Bishop in the deliuering of our opinion keepeth his woont He saith The holines of the church imputatiue and reall that we imagine it to be holy by the imputation of Christs holinesse to the elected brethren and not by the infusion of the holy Ghost into the hearts of all the faithful Whereas we doe not imagine only but by the word of God beleeue and know that the church and all the members thereof are holy not onely iudicially by the imputation of Christs holines but also really by the infusion of the holy Ghost begun in this life by b Rom. 8.23 the first fruits of the spirit and fully to be perefected when the promise of Christ shall be fullfilled c Mat. 5.6 Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousnesse for they shal be satisfied Againe he excepteth against vs that we cannot abide the name Catholike in the true sense of it Of the true sense of the name Catholike But what is that true sense That is saith hee they will not beleeue the true church to haue beene alwaies visibly extant since the time of the Apostles But what ancient father did euer set this downe for the true sense of the name Catholike If any let him be brought foorth If none why doth he contrary to his owne prescription introduce a new exposition of an article of our beleefe Cyril in his Catechisme bringeth in all the meanings of the name Catholike that he could learne that the church is so called for that d Cyril Hierosci Catechis 18. Illuminat Catholica vocatur quia per vntuersum sit orâ—em terrarum diffusa c. Et quia doret Catholicè hoc est vniuersalitèr sine vllo defectu vel differentia omnia dogmata quae deberent venire in cognitionem c Et quòd omne genus hominum ipè subiugat et quia in vniuersum curat omne genus peccatorum c. hab turque in illa omne genus virtutis c. it is vniuersally spread thorow the whole world for that it teacheth vniuersally all doctrines that are to be known for that it subiecteth to it alkinde of men for that it healeth all kinde of sinnes for that it hath in it all kind of vertues but of M. Bishops meaning that it should be alwaies visibly extant he had learned nothing Surely S. Ambrose saith e Ambros Hexaem lib. 3. cap. 2. Ecclesia habet tempora sua persecutionis pacis videtur sicut luna deficere sed non deficit obumbrari potest deficere non potest The church hath her times of persecution and peace it seemeth as the Moone to faile but it faileth not it may be ouershadowed but vtterly faile it cannot If the church may be as the Moone so ouershadowed by persecution as not to be seene then it is not necessary to be alwaies visibly extant and if that be not necessary then M. Bishop hath plaied heere the false merchant to tell vs that the church is therefore called Catholike because it is alwaies visibly extant Albeit there is somewhat also to be obserued concerning the name of the true church that we may speake to that time of the visibility of the church which M. Bishop specially intendeth For if wee call that the true Church which truely hath the outward vocation and calling of the church then we deny not but that the church in the time of Antichrist must bee and hath beene alwaies visibly extant because Antichrist was to possesse and hath possessed the visible state of the church But if by the true church we meane those members of the church which are truely correspondent to the vocation and calling of the church in faith and obedience vnto God then the true church is not alwaies visible because the greater part being the woorse doth many times oppresse the better and weaker part and proudly carrying it selfe in the opinion and confidence of it selfe persecuteth and driueth into corners all them that gainesay their traditions and wilworships which by their owne authority they establish to delude thereby and frustrate the word of God And thus we say that the true church in the time of the exaltation of Antichrist was in a sort inuisible the publike state of the church yeelding it selfe in thraldome to his tyranny and persecuting the true members of the church who disclaiming his obedience sought to keepe themselues entire and faithfull vnto God Whereas hee further addeth for the notation of the name Catholike that the church was so called as being generally spred into all countries we willingly acknowledge the same as being before acknowledged by the ancient church and defended against the Donatists who by other expositions sought to draw the name vnto themselues as the Papists now doe Onely wee adde that caution which Bellarmine himselfe hath deliuered as necessary for himselfe that f Beliarm
led by them who thus grosly abuse you and noteth in the margent Doct. Abbot against Doct. Bishop part 2. in fine These words I vsed to withdraw M. Bishop from the Romish religion and yet M. Higgons thought that without offense he might take my words to serue him for an answer why he had now embraced the same presuming it to be the custome of all writers to take words euen out of the aduersaries mouth and to retort them vpon himselfe how ill he hath done it I will not heere say Now therefore in like sort though Saint Bernard had beene mine aduersary professedly writing against me yea though the words had beene M. Bishop words yet nothing could let but that thereby I might thus expresse the benefit of answering their bookes that to vse M. Bishops words though the heretike arise not from his filth yet the Church may be confirmed in the faith But the words as they are deliuered by Saint Bernard doe serue fully and directly to that purpose whereto I applied them He handleth that which is said in the Canticles l Cant. 2.15 Take vs the Foxes where by m Bernard in Cant. Ser. 64. Vulpes haereses vel potius haereticos ipsos intelligamus Capiantur non armis sed argumentis quibus refellantur errores corum ipsi verò si fieri potest reconcilientur Catholicae reuocentur ad veram fidem c. Homo de ecclesia exercitatus doctus si cum haeretico homine disputare aggreditur ille intentionem suam dirigere debet quatenus ita errantem conuincat vt conuertat c. Nec propterea sanè nihil se egisse putet qui haereticum vicit conuicit haereses confutauit verisimilia a vero clarè aperteque distinxit c. nam etsi haereticus non surrexit de faece tamen ecclesia confirmatur in fide Foxes hee vnderstandeth generally all heretikes which annoy and trouble the Church of God whom he will haue to be taken not with weapons but with arguments whereby to refute their errours that so they may be reconciled to the Catholike Church and recalled to true faith He saith that he that disputeth with an heretike should propound to himselfe to conuince his errour that so he may conuert him and thereupon to take away all obiection of losing his labour therein he addeth that though he will not be conuerted yet hee that hath conquered and conuicted him is not to thinke he hath done no good for though the heretike saith he arise not from his filth yet the Church is confirmed in the faith which is fully answerable to the drift of my speech where I vsed the same words What will he tell vs that he is not the heretike and therefore the words are misapplied But then I will deride his folly that chargeth me with misapplication onely vpon his owne conceit of the point in question He saith I am the heretike I say that he is so He saith it only but prooueth it not but he himselfe standeth by me conuicted of many hereticall positions and doctrines deliuered in his epistle and otherwise in his booke so as that he cannot finde how to trauerse the euidence thereof Yea but S. Bernard in that very place describeth those heretikes to be such as denied Purgatory and praier for the dead c. But M. Bishop therein saith vntruly for Bernard in that place speaketh of heretikes in general as I haue shewed and therfore leaueth his words to be applied to M. Bishop who doth patronise and defend so many wicked and damnable heresies True it is that in the two sermons following he speaketh particularly of some heretikes in his time and noteth them for some points by M. Bishop set down as namely Purgatory and praier for the dead but those matters he bringeth in a great way after in the end of the second Sermon and we doubt whether for those onely without greater cause he would haue noted them for heretikes in as much as Petrus Cluniacensis Bernards equall doth testifie as the Centurists haue obserued n Magdeburg Centur. 12. cap. 5. pag. 839. Petrus Cluniacensis ter in ea ipsa epistola fatetur Catholicos quosdam de sacrificijs orationibus pro defunctis dubitare that some Catholikes did then doubt of sacrifices and praiers for the dead and consequently of Purgatory which dependeth thereon He noteth them for other points wherein they are more like to the Papists than to vs as namely first that o Bernard in Cantic ser 65. Firmauerunt sibi sermonem nequam Iura periura secretum prodere noli c. Quod immobili iure sancitū est non peierandum scilicet hoc tanquam indifferens pro sua voluntate dispensant they dispensed with themselues to sweare and forsweare for the concealing of their owne secrets as now the Iesuites and Priests by their equiuocation and mentall reseruation teach their pupils to do They p Ibid. Contubernio faeminarū nemo inter eos qui careat c. Vxornè tua Non inquit nam voto meo istud non conuenit ser 66. In operimentum turpitudinis cōtinentiae se insigniere voto porrò turpitudinem in solis existimant vxoribus reputandam vowed continency but yet would not be without the company of women yea their vow of continency was but for the couering of their filthines thereby forbearing marriage as vncleane but in the meane time committing fornication as Popish Priests and Votaries are accustomed to doe q Ibid. Quidam dissentientes ab alijs inter solos virgines matrimonium contrahi posse fatentur Some of them permitted the first marriage but the second marriage they held vnlawfull and the Church of Rome now denieth to it their sacramentall benediction They also condemned the eating of flesh as a thing vncleane as the Maniches did they thought they might euery day at their owne tables consecrate for themselues the body and bloud of Christ they derided the baptising of infants which things with other like were such as might iustly moue S. Bernard to inueigh against them And these things hee spake as he was aduertised concerning them of whom hee spake but whether hee were truely aduertised it may bee doubted because he himselfe saith that not onely r Ser. 66. in fine Non solum laici principes sed quidam vt dicitur de Clero necno◠de ordine Episcoporum eos sustinent Princes of the laity but some also of the Clergy and of the Bishops were fauourers of them which it is not likely they would haue beene if they had beene men so ill conditioned as he reporteth them howsoeuer he vpon an vnlikely rale impute it to their taking bribes of them As for those matters which M. Bishop nameth it is no wonder that Bernard liuing in a time of so great corruption and declination of Christian faith were somewhat intangled in the superstitions of that time wonder it is rather that in the
This deniall of a third place M. Higgons z Book 1. part 1. ch 2. § 4. num 10. acknowledgeth and noteth me in his margent for citing the places where it is denied but seeketh to auoid it by saying that Austin thereby onely denied against the Pelagians any third place of eternall rest heere vpon earth after the day of iudgement for children dying without baptisme for this is the briefe of the differences that hee hath there set downe But this will not serue his turne because Austin doth not meerely deny their third place but from the absolute denial of a third place inferreth that their third place cannot be a August de peccat mer. remiss l. 1. cap. 28. Non est vllus vlli medius loâ—us vt possit esse nisi cum diabolo qui non est cum Christo Hinc ipse dominus volens auferre de cordibus malè credentium istam nescio quam medietatem quam conantur quidam parunlis non baptizatis tribuere c. definitiuam protulit ad haec ora obstruenda sententiam vbi ait Qui mecum non est contra me est There is not any middle place for any man saith he that he may be but with the diuell that is not with Christ He addeth Heereupon the Lord himselfe also willing to take away from the hearts of misbeleeuers this I know not what middle place which some seeke to assigne to children vnbaptised hath to stop their mouthes pronounced a definitiue sentence where he saith He that is not with me is against mee There is then no middle place for infants vnbaptised because there is not after death any middle place for any man and therfore doth the Lord pronounce that definitiue sentence from which how M. Higgons will shift Purgatory I cannot well tell The other sentence is as plaine b August Hypognostic lib. 5. Da mihi praeter hunc alterum locum vbi vitae possit requies esse perennis PrimuÌ„ enim locum fides Catholicorum diuina authoritate credidit regnum essâ— coelorum c. Secundum Gehennam vbi omnis Apostata vel à fide Christi alienus aeterna supplicia experietur Tertium penitùs ignoramus imò nec esse in Scripturis Sanctis inuenimus Giue me beside this that is the kingdome of heauen any other place where there may be perpetuall rest of life For the first place the faith of catholick men by diuine authority haue beleeued to be the kingdome of heauen The second hell fire where euery Apostata and alien from the faith of Christ shall feele euerlasting punishments A third we are vtterly ignorant of yea wee finde by the holy Scriptures that there is none such Where we see that S. Austin taking in hand to refute the third place affirmed by the Pelagians distinguisheth generally how many places there be and resolueth that that third place of theirs cannot be because there is no third place Heauen and hell he saith he findeth in the Scriptures but third place he findeth none and therefore maketh vs confident against beleeuing any Purgatory because in the Scriptures we find none The Papists say they find it there but they say vntruely they finde it in their owne constructions forced vpon the Scripture but in the Scripture it selfe they finde it not All the places which they alleage haue their iust and perfect vse euen by the exposition of the fathers themselues without any Purgatorie to be inferred thereby 37. In the same chapter num 12. he toucheth me again for that wheras Austin reuerenceth Epiphanius as a holy man and famous in the Catholike faith it seemeth good to me to iustifie Aerius a damnable heretike against him But I reuerence Epiphanius as farre as Austin did or teacheth me to doe I acknowledge hee was a holy man and famous in the Catholike faith but yet I say of him as S. Austin saide of Ambrose another holy man and famous in the Catholike faith c August con Pelag. Cele lib. 1. cap. 43. Quantis praedicat laudibus quamlibet sanctum doctuÌ„ virum nequaquam tamen authoritati Canonicae Scripturae comparandum Though he were a holy and learned man yet is he not to be compared to the authoritie of the Canonicall Scripture I dissent from Epiphanius as Austin himselfe did concerning fasting daies as I touched a little before who denieth that to be Apostolike tradition which Epiphanius affirmeth to be so I iustifie Aerius against Epiphanius in one point as in another point S. Hierome did as I haue shewed also d Sect. 21. before not reiecting a truth for that either an heretike hath affirmed it or a Catholike doctour hath denied it but therefore embracing it wheresoeuer I finde it because God hath taught it And although Aerius for Arianisme were iustly to be accounted a damnable heretike yet doe I not thinke that M. Higgons can make good his word which before hee hath giuen that for those matters wherein we approoue him there were beside Epiphanius and Austin many other that did condemne him Epiphanius indeed doth so and Austin professing to follow Epiphanius transcribeth the same from him but Philaster and Theodoret writing of heresies mention no such matter neither doe I thinke that M. Higgons can bring vs any father or story of those times that taxeth Aerius in that behalfe Yea I may not omit that which I pointed at before that when Dulcitius mooued the question to Austin e Aug. ad Dulcit quaest 2. Vtrum oblatio quae fit pro quiescentibus aliquid eorum conferat animabus c. Ad quod multi dicunt quòd si aliquis beneficij in hoc locus esse possit post mortem quantò magis sibi anima ferret ipsa refrigeria sua per se illic confitendo peccata quà m in eorum refrigerium ab alijs oblatio procuratur Whether the offering that is made for the dead doe auaile their soules any thing he setteth downe the opinion of many in that time concerning that point Many say to this matter that if heerein any good were to be done after death how much rather should the soule it selfe obtaine ease to it selfe by confession of sins there than that for the ease thereof an offering should be procured by other men which opinion hee would neuer haue set downe neither would Saint Austin haue let it goe without hard censure if it had beene then publikely taken for heresie so to thinke yea Dulcitius would neuer haue mooued the question thereof if Purgatory had been a knowen and vndoubted point of faith as M. Higgons would faine haue it thought to bee But this is not all that hee hath heere to blame me for for in the margent he chargeth me that I peruert the sense of Epiphanius as though the church had praied for the Saints c. If they did not so what is it then that Epiphanius reporteth Epiphanius reporteth saith he that when we make a memoriall of
condition of fraile and sinfull flesh Now because no part of this could be imported in that memoriall if it were a thankesgiuing for the Saints therefore whether M. Higgons will or not it must necessarily be taken to haue been a praier for them And heereof there is one argument more in the last part of the comparison when he saith of Christ that he is in heauen and of the Saints that they are in the earth by their bodies yet resting in the earth Where it hath some reason that they should say We pray for them as respecting that their bodies lie yet in the dust of the earth expecting a blessed and happy resurrection which we craue to bee reuealed vpon them but to say that they meant to giue thanks to God for that the bodies of the Saints lie buried in the earth it were senslesse and absurd And because it is confirmed vnto vs by the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy that the Church did pray for the dead in respect of the resurrection therefore wee cannot doubt but that the memoriall heere spoken of by Epiphanius vsed for the Saints in respect of their bodies in the earth was a praier for them to wish their full and perfect consummation by the resurrection from the dead My former conclusion therefore hence deduced standeth good that sith the ancient Church thus praied for the Saints and Martyrs therefore that certaine it is they did not pray vnto them And because they thus praied for the Saints whose soules they were assured were in heauen therefore they praied for the dead without respect of Purgatory which now is made the onely ground and reason of praier for the dead 38. The next matter for which he questioneth me is concerning the opinion of the Greeke churches as touching Purgatory and prayer for the dead My words are such as might haue serued to weaken his motiue had hee not beene resolued without any motiue to remooue and run away What could he haue better to resolue him then that which I say that the Papists themselues confesse that Purgatory was not receiued or beleeued in the Greeke Churches and therefore that it is certaine that they had no respect of Purgatory in their praier for the dead I did not onely say that the Papists confesse it but I cited the places of their confession Alfonsus De Castro saith k Alfons De Castro adu haeres lib. 8. tit de Indulgent In antiquis scriptoribus de Purgatorio feré nulla mentio potissimum apud Graecos Scriptores quae de causa vsque in hodiernum diem purgatorium non est a Graecis creditum Of Purgatory there is in a maner no mention at all with the ancients but specially with the Greeke writers for which cause Purgatory is not beleeued of the Greekes vntill this day Yea not of the Greekes only but of the Armenians also he acknowledgeth that l Ibid lib. 12. de purgatorio vnus ex notissimis erroribus Graecorum Armeniorum est quo docent nullum esse Purgatorium c. they teach there is no Purgatory calling it an errour well knowen concerning them both The words of Roffensis their great and holy Martyr I cited out of Polydore Virgil m Polyd. Virg. de inuent rer lib. 8. cap. 1. ex Roffensi De Purgatorio apud priscos nulla vel quà m rarissima fiebat mentio sed Graecis ad hunc vsque diem non est creditum esse Of Purgatory there was none or very rare mention made amongst the ancient Fathers yea and with the Greekes it is not beleeued till this day Thus did they ingenuously acknowledge as the truth is and did it nothing stagger M. Higgons to finde this so plainly acknowledged Did it make him nothing doubt of his imagined mutuall dependance of Purgatory and praier for the dead Surely he was a very voluntary conuert or else he might easily haue seene that it is no good connexion to say They praied for the dead therefore they beleeued Purgatory but rather they beleeued not Purgatory therefore they praied not for the dead in any such meaning as the Papists now doe He might haue remembred that which I told Doct. Bishop that many amongst vs of custome and of humane affection of loue doe vse many times words of praier for the dead who notwithstanding from the bottome of their hearts doe vtterly defie both Purgatory and the Pope 39. In another place hee saith that it is n Book 1. part 2. cap. 3. ¶ 4. num 2. to our great disreputation that I name the Albigenses as professours of the same faith and religion which we now prefesse But why Forsooth he knoweth no cause himselfe but referreth his Reader to Parsons the Iesuit in his treatise of the three conuersions of England Yea M. Higgons would you make Parsons his narration a motiue of your recantation Would you giue heed to him whom you knew by the testimony of his owne fellows to be a man of Belial an infamous wretch a meere politizing Atheist and therefore likely if it were to serue his turne to deale with the stories of the ancient Christian Martyrs as he hath done with M. Foxes story carying himselfe in all that worke like a very Porphyrie or Iulian applauding himselfe and seeking to bee applauded in a iollity of forcing all things euen against the haire to scorne and mockery You say the Albigenses in their opinions followed the Waldenses as indeed they were the same some part of them onely being so called of the towne wherein they dwelt and would you beleeue Parsons concerning the opinions of the Waldenses who o Exam. of Fox his calen cap. 3. num 13. Of these Waldēses see at large Simon Goulart Catalog test veritatis lib. 15. Where thou shalt see how leaudly Parsons hath dealt with them disclaimeth Aeneas Syluius who was afterwards Bishop of Rome testifying their faith and doctrine vprightly and faithfully as of his owne knowledge that so he may giue way to other either carelesse or malicious reporters who impiously fathered vpon them strange paradoxes in no other sort than Friar p Edm. Campi decem rat cap. 8. passim Campian lately dealt with vs Yea and is not ashamed to cite q Three Conuers pag. 2. c. 10. num 29. Prateolus and Sanders for witnesses thereof whose ioy it hath been to finde out any thing were it neuer so vntrue which they might report opprobrious and disgracefull to them I doubt not but that the Waldenses and Albigenses might happily in some things be otherwise minded than we be and what are they in the church of Rome all in all things of one and the same minde but if wee respect the substance of their faith and doctrine as we may discerne the same not only by r Aeneas Sylu. de Origen Bohem cap. 35. Aeneas Syluius but also by ſ Alfons adu haeres passim Alfonsus De Castro and specially by t Sleidan Comment lib. 16.