this sincerely in truth and measure But they never thought nor taught that every member in a sort of the visible Churches were holy and sincere the true sheepe of Christ faithfull and effectually called much lesse that it was no Church of Christ wherein abuses were to be found or ungodly prophane men were tolerated The q Bils The difference between christium subject par 1. pag. 92. These se the Church militant triumphāt be not two but one Church Jerusalem which is above is the mother of us all Gal. 4. Yee be now saith Paul no more strangers and forreiners but Citizens with the Saints and of the houshold of God Eph. 2. For you be come to the Citie of the living God and Heb. 12. where you see the Saints in heaven be not removed from the Church of God but be received to their fellowship Id. part 2. p. 230. The Church in heaven is it another Church from this on earth or the same Certainly Christ hath but one body which it his Church and of that body seeing the Saints sc in heaven be the greater and worthier part they must be counted the same church with us Church militant and triumphant are not two Kingdomes but two degrees of one Kingdome The Church visible and invisible are not two Churches but distinct considerations of the same Church If then we speake of true sound living chiefe principle members of the militant Church such as partake in all the royalties and priviledges of members every member of the Church militant is a true branch in the Vine knit firmely unto Christ quickned by the Spirit and shall be an inheriter of eternall glory But if we speake of members in a sort of visible societies so hypocrites may be members and ungodly men as they are tolerated in the societie when the better part cannot reforme or amend them But to the Arguments in order First The Church may be true though the Ministery be deficient in the order of calling qualification of persons and execution of their office But that Church is false whose Ministery is altogether false for substance of their office that is the doctrine which they teach Sacraments which they administer and functions whereunto they are set apart Thus the Conformists and Inconformists both Now if we speake of the Ministery of the Church of England indefinitly both Conformists and Inconformists will confesse some things to be faulty both in the entrance and execution of their callings as that some are ignorant proud covetous carelesse corrupt not watching over the flocke But absolutely that their Ministery is false in respect of the substance of their office that was never said by either of them as you doe or might well know The knot to be unloosed now remaineth in your conscience in that either you aequivocate in your Major or against knowledge charge the Nonconformists in your Minor with that which they never said Secondly The true Church of Christ that is the true and lively members of the militant church and militant members of the catholique church is a company of r The true Church is an universall cōgregation or fellowship of Gods faithfull and elect people built upon the foundations of the Prophets and Apostles Christ Iesus himselfe being the head corner stone And it hath alwayes three notes or markes whereby it is knowne pure and sound doctrine the Sacraments ministred according to Christs holy institution and the right use of Ecclesiasticall discipline Hom. 2. booke hom for Whites 2. part The Church consisteth not of men but of faithfull men and they be the Church not in respect of flesh and bloud which came from earth but of truth and grace which came from Heaven Bilson Christ Subject part 2. pag. 231. faithfull people a communion of Saints the true flock of Christ which heare know acknowledge beleeve and obey the voyce of Christ the kings daughter which is all glorious within knit to Christ and married unto him But in this societie there are mixed not onely secret hypocrites but fierce Lyons Tigres Wolves Beares wicked Teachers and ungodly livers Thus the Conformists and Inconformists And in this sense the Church of England is a societie of faithfull and beleeving people the flocke of Christ the Kings daughter quickned by the Spirit enriched with grace decked with Gods ordinances walking in sincere constant conscionable obedience though in outward societie and profession mixed with many ignorant vaine prophane persons who have received the presse-money of Christ but indeed fight under the Devils banner as doe all hypocrites and ungodly wretches that is in the Church of England there be some truely of the Church which heare the voyce of Christ mixed with those which in words professe Christ but in their deeds deny him Thus the Conformists and Nonconformists The knot here lyeth onely in an aequivocation or grosse abuse of the word Church which sometimes notes the whole visible societie linked in an externall profession and sometimes the true and living members of Jesus Christ against which the gates of hell shall not prevaile Thirdly The s Deo dat Ital. Ioh. 10.1 The sheepe are the true faithfull endued with spirituall light and discretion sheepe of Christ doe heare his voyce but what sheepe not all that be sheepe in profession but all that be sheepe indeed and truth effectually called and gathered into Christ◠sheep-fold They heare that is acknowledge beleeve and obey Christs voyce sincerely but not perfectly fully and compleatly for the faithfull may erre of frailtie and infirmitie both in faith and manners sometimes they are mislead through ignorance drawne aside by passions foiled by temptations Christs sheepe doe obey his voyce but t Bils Christ. subject part 2. pa. 233. The Church is not simply a number of men for Infidels heretickes and hypocrites are not the Church but men regenerate by the Word Sacraments truely serving God according to the Gospell of his Sonne and sealed by the Spirit of grace against the day of Redemption all that are linked with them in outward societie doe not sincerely obey not yet in conversation fashion themselves to the direction and commandement of Jesus Christ And thus the Church of England that is the true and faithfull people in those societies doe heare and obey the voyce of Christ in truth others mixed with them doe heare and professe but not obey If the Church doe erre it is of ignorance nor of wilfulnesse or stubbornnesse In matters of lesse importance not fundamentall or bordering thereupon It is the errour of some onely add not of the whole Church which errours u Gratian. decret par 2. ca. 24. qu. 1. cap. 9. A rectae in Gloss Novitatibus Ipsa congregatio fidelium hic dicitur Ecclesia 〈◊〉 Ecclesia non potest nonesse cannot make that shee is not the flocke of Christ The knot here to be unloosed is your sinne in charging that upon the Nonconformists the contrary whereto they have ever
with the triumphant church And not by all sorts as in outward societie and profession are linked together who yet are not excluded from the societie in respect of profession nor denied to be members of the Church in their kinde or in a sort such as are called onely by externall vocation are members in their kinde of that company called or externally selected but not true members of the Church militant nor militant members of the Church catholique whereof Christ is the head And thus the church is a company of faithfull people sincere upright walking with God which is mixed with hypocrites and wicked livers not as living members of Jesus Christ but as members in a sort of the visible societie as members in the church by outward profession but not of the true militant church SECT V. BEfore I end this point Neces of Separat p. 179 180 181. Babel no Bethel pag. 108. Chall ca. 1. pag 33 34. I will here lay downe some few Syllogismes intirely made up between the Inconformists and Conformists all concluding the forenamed position That Church which hath not a lawfull Ministery is not a true visible Church But the Church of England hath not a true lawfull Ministery Ergo The Church of England is not a true visible Church The proposition is affirmed of the Conformists Sutcl Chal. pa. 40. and answ to the except pag. 65. as Burton Sutcliffe The Assumption is granted by the Nonconformists as we have in the first chapter largely shewed The true visible Church of Christ is a societie of beleeving and faithfull people and a communion of Saints so say the Conformists But the Church of England is not a societie of beleeving and faithfull people a communion of Saints thus write the Nonconformists see page 169. Ergo the Church of England is not the true visible Church The true Church is the Kings daughter described in Psalme 45. But the Church of England is not the Kings daughter so described Therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ Burton answer to Hicholia pag. 100. The proposition is laid downe by the Conformists whereby they prove Rome a false Church The Assumption is the Nonconformists For if they say the truth their members have not those qualities belonging to the Kings daughter neither the Priest nor people See pag. 15.16 39.137 â—â— 69.170 The true Church of Christ is the flocke of Christ 〈◊〉 the Church of England is not the true flock of Christ therefore the Church of England is not the true Church of Christ. The proposition say the Conformists is undeniable BurtoÌ„ in the same Booke pag. 99. Song 1.6 7 Act 20.28 Joh 10.16 Theâ—e Assumption is proved by the Nonconformists Principles compared with Joh. 10.3 4.27 Christs flocke heare his voice and live it and follow it But the Church of England submitting to aâ— unlawfull Minisstery worship and discipline heare not Christs voice nor know nor acknowledge nor follow it but the voyce of Antichrist The Church of God doth keepe the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration or corruption thus the Conformists Sutcl Chal. cap. 1. pag. 6. arg 9. But the Church of England keepes not the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets without addition alteration and corruption say the Nonconformists Sec pag 108 Ergo shee is not the Church of God No societie can be tearmed Gods Church which retaineth not Gods true worship this the Conformists But the Church of England doth not retaire Gods true worship say the Nonconformists See pag. 78 to the 213. Ergo The same Booke pag. 13. arg 19. shee cannot be tearmed Gods church The true Church consisteth not of fierce Lyons Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beasts But of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble gentle c. So say the Conformists But the English Church doth consist of Lyons Id. pag. 27. arg 〈◊〉 Wolves Tigres and such like wilde and fierce beast's and not of Sheepe and Lambes which learne of Christ and are meeke humble and gentle c. Thus the Nonconformists see pag. 31. c. 145.169 Therefore it is not the true Church Here the Reader seeth cleerely how the Conformists Majors and the Nonconformists Minors make up intire Syllogismes of Separation And how they will be able to loose these knots I know not except by revoking utterly their own grounds which if either of them doe yet I doubt not but we shall be well enough able to maintaine them against men ANSVVER YOu please your selfe with the same Song which here we have over againe and againe tuned with the same art But that which you talke of the Conformists Majors and the Inconformists Minors your slanders set aside is idle and toyish For in that matter there is no difference betwixt the Conformists and the Inconsormists The Conformists Majors as they are truely meant the Inconformists doe assent unto And the abuse of ignorance idlenesse prophanenesse both of Ministers people whereof the Nonconformists complaine the Conformists doe acknowledge and bewaile And your selfe a little after in a matter of the same nature affirme that herein you say no more than what in effect is fully acknowledged Can. Neces of Separat pag. 193. by the Nonconformists Conformists the Church of England the learned generally and all the reformed Churches upon earth and for proofe you quote the same Authors you here all edge And why then doe you trifle thus with the Conformists Major and Inconformists Minor Did the sound of those words please you so well But let the Majors and Minors be whose they will no intire or perfect Syllogismes of Separatisme can be made up of them but such as ignorance in not understanding or an evill conscience in perverting or falsifying their sayings doth conclude They may well stand to their grounds and unloose those knots and if they understand their owne principles they cannot but untie them But how you can free your selfe from the guilt of an evill conscience unlesse you recant what you have written repent of your Separation and acknowledg the wrong you have done to the Nonconformists by misreporting perverting and falsifying their principles as you call them I leave to your serious consideration and the reexamination of what you have done For the right understanding of the Conformists propositions Iâ— speake in your phrase against the Church of Rome we must note That the Romanists hold the Church of Rome to be the catholique Church of Christ here on earth under the Pope the Head in which sense their propositions are to be understood For the true catholique militant Church is a faithfull people a communion of Saints the flocke of Christ that heareth his voyce keepeth the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles without addition or alteration and worshippeth God truly according to his will And there is truly and properly no member of the militant Church catholique which doth not
large and particular animadversions to himselfe in private The Almighty speedily cast out of his Church all causes of offence cleare up doubtfull truths unto the hearts of his people Compound all differences amongst Brethren make us all of one minde heart and way in his worship that our divisions may no longer dishonour the Gospell distract the weak conscience disinable us to do that good we desire or put weapons into the hands of then who oppose that reformation the perfecting whereof our soules long for through JESUS CHRIST THOMAS LANGLEY WILLIAM RATHBAND SIMEON ASH FRANCIS WOODCOCK GEORGE CROSSE An Advertisement to the READER THis Booke was divided and sent unto severall Presses that it might the sooner come abroad yet by reason of the multitude of Pamphlets which it met with daily it hath beene thrusting through the throng for the space of halfe a yeare at least before it could see the light In which regard also it pleades excuse if in the printing it be not found every way so punctuall as might be desired Farewell THE ANSWERS TO THE EPISTLES BLessed be the Lord 2 Thes 2.8 We see now in good measure that accomplished which the Apostle foretold touching the revelation of the man of sinne and heartily beg the full consuming of him by the brightnesse of Christs comming But the discoverie of that mysterie of iniquitie and consuming of that monster of abominations standeth not in separation from Christian societies intirely professing the true faith worshipping the Lord with that pure worship which he hath appointed and holding communion in those ordinances which God hath blessed to the comfort of thousands and ten thousands even their soules who with most bitternesse oppose those congregations if ever they felt sound comfort indeed Separation from the true Churches of Christ his Ministery and worship of which sort I shall prove that to be by the Word of God for which I plead tendeth not to the overthrow of Antichrist but to the renting of the Church the disgrace of Religion the advancement of pride schisme contention the offence of the weak the griefe of the godly who be better setled the hardening of the wicked and the recoverie or rising againe of Antichristianisme They that condemne our Assemblies Ministerie and Worship and voluntarily separate from the preaching of the Word Prayers and Sacraments as Antichristian if in words they doe not maintaine Antichrist really they doe him more credit than his chiefe upholders For of necessitie they must confesse that in Antichristian Churches the intire faith may be purely professed the doctrine of salvation plentifully preached Ambr. in Luc. l. 6. c. 9. tom 5. Petra tua Christus est fundamentum Ecclesia fides est Si in Petra fueris in Ecclestaeris Pâ—ra est Ch istus Hieron in Psa 133. Ecclesia ibi est â—bi fides vera est Ecclesia autem vera illic erat vbi fides vera eral cum haeretici omnes bas ecclesias possidebant Aug in epâ—st Ich. tract 3. Estautem mater ecclesia uberaejus â—uo Testamenta divinarum Sâ—r. hinc sugatur lac omnium Sacrameatorum pro aeterna salute nostra gestorum Eâ—â—n Psalm 21. Vbicunque timetur Deus laudatur ibi est ecclesia Parker Ep. published in the prophane Schisme of the Brownists CAN A stay against straying answ § .. 1. p. 44. Mediam tennâ—â—e beati The true and pure worship of God is called grosse idolatry CAN stay §. 4. p. 32. Filthy superstition Id. sect 1. p. 49. Our assemblies the harlots house Id. sect 4. p. 61. The best Preachers are the worst Id. sect 5. p. 76. In Scriptures are said to be Robbers and Thievs yea spirituall sorcerie is charged upon them Id. se 8. p. 87. the seales of the covenant for substance rightly administred and by the blessing of God upon his owne meanes Christian soules ordinarily converted and nourished unto life eternall which is much more than all the factors for Antichrist shall ever bee able to make good and if true nothing could be 〈…〉 to the praise of Antichristianisme In effect 〈…〉 they lesse than even persecute the Lord Iesus in his hadst which they revile in his ordinances which they dishonour and in his servants whose footsteps they slander whose 〈◊〉 they desolse whose office they trample upon with 〈…〉 Which if the forward abettors and promoters of this separation did advisedly consider and take the Lord before them they would not furiously brand and abandone that worship and ministerie which hath the approbation and carrieth the seale of God As it is unlawfull to approve that thing which ought to be condemned so to condemne what is to bee justified much more to cast off and reject those godly assemblies which Christ hath and doth grace with the presence of his grace as false and that worship which is tendered to God alone in the mediation of Iesus Christ according to his will as idolatry and that Ministerie which God hath and daily doth blesse to the gaining and edifying of soules unto life everlasting as Antichristian Humble mindes are afraid of novelties CAN stay sect 1. p. 48. But this is the greatest noveltie that ever was heard of in the Churches of the Saints All that we speak we should affirm out of the holy Scriptures soundly interpreted and rightly applyed But this judgement is not of God is not taught in Scripture CAN stay sect 11 p. 112. In corde animáque credentium ponitur idolum quando novuÌ„ dogma constituitur Hier. in Jer. 32. Omne dogma contrarium veritati adorat epera manuum suaruÌ„ constituit idola in terrá suâ Hier. in Isa 2. Ne sitâ—s mulâ—e Magistri dissentiâ—ntes a doctrinâ uniâ—â— Magistri Christi August l. 1. Retract A Stay sect 1. pag. 47. Quicquid pariter omnes uno eodemque consensu c. Vincent Lyrinen cont proph haeret c 4. Field of the Ch. l. 3 〈◊〉 43. p. 175. is not consonant to the doctrine of Christ our only Master as in the examination of particulars shall be shewed If it bee a great sinne to be rash and adventurous upon opinions in matters of Religion where men are not first well informed in judgement by true grounds of knowledge What is it to condemne the Churches Ministery Worship and Servants of the Lord Iesus against the expresse Sentence of our heavenly Master and Teacher If an Idoll be set up in the Church when a new Opinion is broached as some cite it out of Hierom they of the Separation upon tryall will be found the strangest Idoll makers in the world because they have broached the strangest noveltie that ever was maintained in the Church Such as lay downe rules saith the author of the Stay to find out the truth by write thus What the Fathers all with one consent have held and written is a necessarie token to know the truth by And whatsoever hath been holden at all times and in all places by all Christians that have
not beene noted for noveltie singularitie and division is to bee received as the undoubted truth of God If these assertions be true then is this condemnatorie sentence most unjust and untrue For not only all old writers generally but the most learned of later times yea and all sects and sorts of people professing Christianitie themselves excepted are against it Therefore did they consider the terrour of the Lord CAN stay sect 1 p. 8. and that great day in which the Lord Iesus shall appeare in the brightnesse of his Father to avenge the quarrell of his least Commandement and to judge the wrongs Gregorie to John the Bishop of Constantinople saith thus Tu qâ—â—â— Christo universali ecclesic capiti in extrâ—mi judicii dâ—cturus es examine qui cuactacjus membra tibimet conarts universalis appellatione supponere CAN stay against straying sect 1. p. 8 Parker of the crosse part 2. c. 9. sect 2. I may well compare some of unbridled spirits to the Flaccians whose intemperate furie made Ernestus to deale the more hardly with the Protestants out of a fear they were all of the same spirit and would in the end procure like mischiefe Am. Polan in Dan. c. 9. injuries and reproaches which are cast upon his Church and Saints ordinances and worship they would not speake evill of what they know not revile his heritage despise his worship condemn the righteous vilifie the ordinances of grace abuse Scriptures misalledge Authors cause divisions and schismes in the Churches of God distract the minaes of some obstinate others and expose religion it selfe to contempt Let mee speake to them as the great est zealot in that cause at this day speaketh to his opposite in a cause of lesse importance When God ariseth up what will they answer him what will they say when hee shall not onely charge them that they have made a rent in the Church brought an evill report upon his ordinances spoken contemptuously of that which he approved yea commanded and perverted his word for that end and purpose But also that they have laboured with might and maine to draw others into the same transgression by meanes whereof his name is blasphemed the weake scandalized the godly made sad and that which was halting quite turned aside If it be sure that a more grievous punishment is reserved for them that cause others to offend than for them which doe such things themselves let the adviser weigh seriously whether it doth not concerne himselfe as much as any other to tremble and stand in awe It is a vaine boast that at this day there are few CAN say Episâ— to the Reader The judgment and practice of some men of speciall account in the Church of God have to this day held this impression in me that I esteem the Captaines and Ancient-bearers of this schisme unworthy the honour of any set conflict and publike confutation S. B. the raising of the foundation of Browne Ep. to the Christian Reader CAN Neces of separa Epist to the Reader Galschill to Martial Epist Omnia invalida nihilo sunt aequiâ—â— paranda if any except Formalists and Familists and men of corrupt mindes who suppose that gaine is Godlines that will appeare in defence of our parish Churches Ministerie and Worship For the professors as he is pleased to stile them are of the same judgement touching those things that formerly they have beene of and stand ready by the Scriptures to prove their godly congregations to be the true Churches of Iesus Christ and their worship to be of his holy institution If of later times they have beene silent in these matters it is not because they are better informed or that they see and acknowledge their worship and Ministery to be fals and idolatrous but they would not spend good houres in vaine seeing what soever was written in this kinde had beene learnedly and sufficiently answered not with reproaches taunts and boastings as is suggested but with solid proofe out of the booke of God Christian Religion teacheth men to occupie themselves otherwise than to mispend their time in answering that which in the eares of all indifferent men carryeth a sufficient confutation with it or is sufficiently confuted already specially when experience had lessoned them that they must deale with such as will overcome by peremptory censuring when weight of reason is wanting to them Neverthelesse If not reply if they please and when they will CAN stay Epist When the undertakers have finished their answer and â—ast Dav. published his many things that he hath to say against it Id sect 4. p. 36. least overmuch silence should be interpreted consent or beget too great confidence in men of the goodnesse of their cause and others should stumble at their vaunts as if none durst because they doe not undertake their answer I am purposed by the grace of God to examine the grounds and arguments whereby they would perswade the Necessitie of Separation from our Assemblies and from the worship of God performed amongst us Sundry things M. Canne requesteth of him that shall undertake to read and answer his bookes CAN stay epistle to the Reader 1 That when he setteth himselfe to read hee should set himself as in Gods presence and look on with a single and unpartiall eye 2 That he live by his owne faith and build not upon another mans fancie 3. That he denie himself and be contented to be guided by God alone 4. That for a particular faile hee doe not condemne the whole 5. That hee change not the state of the Question 6. That he may finde plaine dealing Id. Stay sect 1. p. 2.4.5 Sanctis Scripturis non loquentibus quis loquitur Amb. de vocat Gent. tom 2. l. 2. c. 3. Omne quod loquimur debemus â—ffi mare de Scripturis sanctis Hier. in Psal 98. tom 8. Nihil ultra quamsacris literis proditum est definiendum Erasm in Hilar. Solum Dei verbum certum caetera falsa si dâ—ssentiant Fer. ad Rom. c. 3. p. 303. CAN stay sect 4. p. 32. sect 1. p. 44. and what is brought against him be read out of the Prophets or Psalmes the Law or Gospell Whether these conditions be observed by the Author himselfe in his writings let the indifferent judge as namely whether passages of Scripture be truly alledged Authors rightly quoted arguments plainly propounded conclusions soundly drawne his adversaries ingenuously dealt withall Whether in writing he set himselfe in the presence of God and weigh in the Ballance of the Sanctuarie what he commendeth unto his Reader Whether he censure not before he make proofe by Scripture and rather insult over his adversaries with insolent and reproachfull tearmes than confute their grounds with substantiall reasons and whiles he commendeth plaine dealing simplicitie and integritie he doe not play the jugler who pretends plainnesse that he might beguile and deceive the sooner For when he makes semblance of zeale for the puritie of religion
same I leave it to your conscience to judge This is sure neither Scripture nor Author cited doth speake with you in that matter but plainly professe that it was unlawfull because it was expresly forbidden That exercise saith Zanchie did seeme praise-worthy to the Israelites and yet it is to play the harlot Why because it is sacriledge to depart from the Word of the Lord. But the Word of the Lord had commanded that they should worship the Lord only at Ierusalem and by such rites as hee had instituted The Kings who are commended in Scripture who yet tooke not away the high places as Asa Jehosaphat Amasias Azarias and Jothian they were not commended for suffering the high places but that they were constant in faith and religion although they fell into some peculiar sins But withall the abuse of the high places in the worship of God was no light sin but very grievous because it was properly and expresly against the divine law and precept As for the ten Tribes who departed from the house of David they shined grievously in that they worshipped the Calves and that in a place of worship elected of themselves contrary to the word of God leaving and forsaking that place which the Lord bad chosen to himselfe They professed the true God and turned not aside to the gods of the Heathen and in that respect are called the house and family of the Lord 2 King 10.16.31 Hos 9 15. 1 King 12.31 Lev. 17.7 Hebr. Sep. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Iun. demonibus Deu. 32.17 1 Cor. 10.10 Ex. 32.1.8 Acts 7.41 1 Cor. 10.7 1 King 12.28 and 14.9 2 Chron. 11.15 Heb. Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 See Ainsw Annot. in Lev. 17.7 et Iun. ibid. Rainold de Idolola l. 2. c. 3. Isa 44. Qu. Co. pag. 61. CAN Sta. §. 3 pag. 18. Babingt in Lev. 17. See Iun. in Lev. 17.3 4 11. But as they sacrificed at Bethel and committed Idolatry in worshipping the Calves so their service was abominable and their Priesthood appointed for that service a meer nullitie and humane device Thus all the Jewes and Gentiles are said to sacrifice unto Divels who sacrificed in such sort and place as God had forbidden especially it they sacrificed unto Idols though in them they sacrificed unto the true God in their imagination as the Israelites had done when they made the golden Calse and sacrificed unto it and Ieroboams Idols are called Divels and he is said to make Priests for the high places and for Divels Further this Ordinance of God was typicall and did shadow forth Christ as the learned do observe and not without ground and warrant All Altars Sacrifices Priests and the Temple it selfe where the Altar stood were but types and shadowes of Christ You your selfe cite out of Bishop Babington that hereby was signified that only in the Church by faith in the chiefe high Priest Christ Jesus sacrifice and service accepted of God is and can be offered and done and no where els By the erudiments saith another Christ was shadowed among the Jewes and expiation made on the crosse by his blood From hence briefly let these things be observed 1 That the Jewes sinned by facrificing in the high places and the Israelites at Dan and Bethel because God had forbidden it expresly but against communicating in our assemblies no such prohibition can be brought forth which haply might bee the reason why you had rather say because they had no divine precept for it than because it was forbidden which yet you know to bee most certaine 2 Though it bee not lawfull to communicate with the people of God in their sins yet wee may partake in the ordinances of worship with such as offend grievously in the worship of God as the Prophets and faithfull communicated in the ordinances of God at Jerusalem with them that sacrificed upon the high places 3. That in Idolatrous and false Churches that which is meerely of men is vaine and fruitlesse and a meere nullitie but if among them something which is of God remaine it is not to bee esteemed a thing of nought 4 Wee must neither forsake all societies wherein wee espie many things repugnant to the Word of God nor cast off every thing in those societies wherewith we must not hold communion as false vaine and ineffectuall In Idolatrous societies Cyp. lib. 1. c. 4. The people must not partake with the sacrifice of a sacrilegious Priest there may be some truth which I must not cast away though I must not hold society in their Idolatry In the true Churches of Christ there may be diverse errors and abuses wherewith I must not communicate though I must live and hold fellowship in the society I am bound to keepe the unity of that living body S. B. Second ansvver pag. 20. whereof I am a member even with some inconvenience of sickenesse and unsound parts but I must not joyne my selfe to a strange body and so become a member of Satan 5. They that communicate in the Worship of God in our Assemblies doe neither bring a strange oblation nor goe to a place forbidden for the worship is of God and the Congregation assembled in his Name and he is there present to feast them that draw nigh unto him in truth of heart Can. Stay Sect. 3. Pag. 19. Ought we not to beleeve that as God had commanded us to worship Him that is to heare his Word receive the Sacraments and to use other His Ordinances so Hee hath also called and separated unto himselfe a Church a Communion of Saints and holy ones in and amongst whom these holy things are to be used and that we are to looke in what fellowship wee receive the holy things of God as what the things are we doe receive In a word ought we not to be perswaded that as the legall Sacrifices out of the Tabernacle or Temple within whose circle they were prescribed by the mouth of God were unlawfully offered so all the Ordinances and exercises of the Church under the Gospell done out of a true constituted Church are altogether and every way sinfull Deut. 12.5 6 7. ANSWER God hath separated unto himselfe a Church and amongst them hee is to bee worshipped according to his owne appointment But this Church is of larger extent than that which you call a true constituted Church wee reade that the Lord did chuse a certaine place for sacrifices Deut. 12.5 6 7. after which it was unlawfull to sacrifice in any other and so we read also that the remaindes of the Paschall Lamb was to be burnt and the flesh of the Ramme of Consecration with the bread that remained unto the morning Exod. 12.10 Exod. 29.34 Levit. 15.19 I yeeld the Scripture a witnesse of my sense and my exposition without the Scripture let it bee of no credit Orig. Hom. 9 in Jer. CAN. Necess of separ pag. 2 11. Can. Stay Epistle to the Reader Iohn 2.19 21. 2 Cor. 6.16 So
the ordinary way and meanes Id. Sect. 15. p. 132. which the Scripture speakes of to beget men to the faith For as a false forged constitution makes a Church a reall and substantiall Idoll So all that comes from it is touched with the Idolatry of that constitution This is a ruled opinion of many Divines The State makes all the publike actions to be formally good or evill For as the Temple sanctifieth the gold Matth. 23.17 the Altar the offerings so the Ordinances of the Church under the Gospell are sanctified unto us Bucer in Mat. 23.17 That is as Bucer truely speaketh in the use of them made lawfull to us in that they have their rise from a true and right power Seeing therefore the Church in Question wants a right Constitution it must follow that all spirituall actions done in it whether Prayer Preaching Sacraments Censures as they are there done are none of Gods Ordinances though true it is in themselves they are of God If the false Churches of whom we disputed CAN. Stay Sect. 15. p. 131.132 Id. Sect. 2. p. 8. be that spirituall Babylon mentioned in the Revelation cap. 18.4 then it is unlawfull for Gods people to goe unto them to performe any spirituall or religious action and so consequently not to heare theâ—e But the first is true Ergo the later is true also The proposition needs no proofe because our opposites and we herein are of opinion alike The assumption is manifest by these reasons Artopaeus in Rev. 18. pag. 198. Flac. Illyric in Rev. 18.4 Par. com in Hos 4. pag. 506. Bulling in Apoc. ca. 18. con 76. 1. The words in the Text prove it plainely Come out of her my people that is remove your selves from all false assemblies covenant together to walk in all the wayes of God serve the Lord among your selves in spirit and truth and returne not from whence you are come But repent rather that yee have suffered your Consciences to bee wrought upon by any unlawfull Officers And thus doe the Learned interpret the place namely of such a coming out as that we may not be bodily present at any of their worship 2 Cor. 6.1 Ioh. 5.21 Zech. 11.17 Botlac prompt allegoriar cap. 21. de Minist It is like that filthy bird which carryeth this Motto Contactu omnia saedat The publisher and others with him have comitted appatant Idolatry maintained it in the Church and sought thereby to pervert the right wayes of the Lord. Jd. sect 1. p. 7. Id sect 15. p. 133. A false Church state is rightly likened to the leprosie spread in the wals of the houses of the Lepers because of the pollution which it causeth to the persons and things Take for instance a Citie or Towne if the civill State or Corporation which they have be usurped aevised or derived from a false power all their publike administrations are unlawfull and every one partaking thereof offendeth So all administrations done in a false Church whether prayer Preaching Sacraments Censures are uncleane actions and doe defile every receiver J say because of the Idoll State which is devised out of a mans braine and used as a meanes to serve God in it and by it All the Ordinances done after the invention and will of Antichrist can no otherwise be judged than a brood common to the nature of the breeders that is the Devill and the Whore of Rome the Father and Mother that did beget them ANSWER THe Faithfull are commanded to come out of spirituall Babylon and not to communicate with her in false worship or Idolatry Revel 18.4 as the Text doth confirme and your opposites grant And therein it was needlesse to muster up the testimonies of the Learned to give evidence in a case maintained and practised notoriously sc that we must flye from the society of Rome and not be present to behold their worship Your labour herein is superfluous but that the Names of Learned men here numbred up might serve to cover your nakednesse when you come to the point in controversie wherein you prove just nothing at all But our Churches wherein the Gospell of Christ is purely preached and professed in all points fundamentall the seales of the Covenant of Grace rightly administred who are separaced from spirituall Babylon in mind and body and have fled from her worship and Idolatry who are built upon Christ the true and firme foundation of his Church and by Christ himselfe acknowledged for his people and graced with his favourable presence Our Churches I say cannot be deemed or reputed spirituall Babylon without great injurie to Christ his truth his Church and Saints By spirituall Babylon in this booke of the Revelation is meant Rome Christian departed from the faith guilty of the blood of Saints stained with manyfold and fearfull Idolatries the mother of fornications who hath made drunke the Kings of the earth with the cup of her poysons as might bee confirmed by the Scripture it self the joynt consent of learned orthodox Divines and the testimonie of Papists themselves But to brand the Churches of Christ since the reformation who have renounced Antichrists doctrine worship and idolatries and embraced the intire faith of the Lord Jesus with that odious hatefull name is contrary to the truth of God evident reason and the judgement of all approved godly learned men You miserably corrupt and pervert the Text when you give this to be the sense thereof Remove your selves from all false Assemblies covenant together to walke in all the wayes of God serve the Lord among your selves in spirit and truth and returne not from whence you are come This is not to interpret Scripture and learne of them what wee are to thinke but to racke Scriptures to our sense and make them speake according to our fansies which is an high point of Antichristianisme If you will stand to your principles within two hundred yeares after Christ or lesse there was not one true Christian societie in the whole world which did walke together in all the wayes of God and serve God in a Church state among themselves And will you say the faithfull are charged of God in this passage of holy writ to remove and separate from all Christian assemblies that then were in the world and to serve God among themselves If corruption in doctrine manners worship government and orders make a false assembly Rome was a false assembly long before the Lord gave commandement to his people to depart thence and separate themselves Israel for a time continued in Egypt and Babylon viz. untill the Lord sent to bring them forth and the Church lay hid in Babylon and that by the providence and approbation of God long after Rome was miserably corrupted and defiled The matter is notorious and therefore to spend more words about it is needlesse Hee that considereth the state of things long before the faithfull separated from Rome and what is written in defence of that separation which
the reformed Churches have made cannot be ignorant thereof If to come out of Babylon then had beene to remove from all false assemblies as you glosse it it was necessarie the commandement had beene given much sooner or the faithfull should have departed without leave or commandement from God I might say to you in your owne words CAN Stay §. 15 pag. 135 This is to gratifie the errour of Montanus who professed that he knew more than the Apostles For the Apostles knew nothing of our removing from all false assemblies as you understand it and covenauting together to walke in all Gods wayes and serve God among themselves If this had beene knowne to John when hee foretold the Apostasie from the faith and the rising of the great Whore he would have made more haste to warne the faithfull to bee gone out of the Churches and to have withdrawn themselvs it being a matter of such weight and importance and so needfull to be done divers hundred years before it was ever once thought upon When the words of a Text are plaine a gree with the circumstances of the place the analogie of faith and other Scriptures for men then to leave the native sense and to force a sense contrary to that the letter expresseth it is to wrest the Scriptures as you say and not to expound them by the true rules and Canons of Divinitie CAN Stay § 15 p 135. Rev. 18.2 3. Exite ab ea pâ—puâ—â— mâ— At agit angelus de Babylone mylica de synagaga nempe Romana quae ipsa fidei Evangelit sundamenta corrasit Park de polit Ecâ—â— l. 1. c. 14. Lay this rule to the present interpretation which you make of this passage in Scripture and whomsoever you accuse you shall finde your self to be a perverter of Scripture in degree farre above him For your interpretation is contrary to the scope and drift of the place the rules of faith and consent of other Scriptures It speakes not of leaving all administrations in false Churches as you speake oâ— false administrations and false Churches but of separation from spirituall Babylon which was the habitation of Divels and cage of every uncleane spirit and of every uncleane and hatefull bird which cannot bee said of all administrations which you are pleased to accuse as false If it may be spare your words and let us heare your reasons for if they be ought they will carry more weight A devised constitution you say is an Idoll Whitak de pontif Rom. cont 4. qu 2. p. 146. Si semel ea consuetudo aut lex obtinuerit in Theologia ut liberum sit cuivis distinctiones comminisci nihil in omni religione certum fixumque remanebiâ— Quis enim non eo modo quid vis labefactare poterit Eaplorandae ergo distinctiones dil genlius â judic ndae sunt eaque magni facienda est regula nullas in in Theologia probandas esse distinctiones nisi quae aperâ—is Scripturarum locâ—s nitantur and all that comes from it is tainted with the idolatry of that constitution You will say it is a false Church constitution if the Minister bee not chosen and ordained by the congregation alone where he is to administer if a man be received into the societie who is not a visible Saint if any idle ignorant carelesse scandalons corrupt usurping Minister be chosen ordained or suffered if any notorious or scandalous person bee admitted to the ordinances if any stinted Liturgie or forme of Catechising administration or prayer be used with sundry the like which in your esteem are arguments of false constitutions Churches Ministerie and Worship Now tell us plainly is every such Church-constitution an Idoll and that which is done in these Societies unholy and uncleane If so then there was never any one age wherein the Church-constitution was not an Idoll and the worship of God performed in that Societie leprous uncleane poysoned with Idolatry The Temple sanctified the Gold and the Altar the offering but the Temple and Altar are not types and figures of externall Church-constitution Where doe you read this in the Law or the Prophets c. And if you read it not how dare you affirme it Besides Lev. 16.20 Num. 7 10. 1 Reg. 8.63 the sanctification of the oblations depended upon one Temple and Altar therein yet so as both Temple and Altar were sanctified by the offering But if we may speake as you doe A devised constitution is twofold 1 Absolute and in every respect when neither Doctrine Ordinances office or persons are of God and this constitution is altogether false a nullitie an Idoll if you please so to call it 2 In part corrupt maimed defective but having something of God and that which is done in such a constitution is not false a nullitie tainted with the idolatry of the constitution This distinction is neither devised strange nor new but that which hath ever more beene acknowledged in the Church of God and is manifest in Scripture if wee take the word devised constitution as this Author doth For Heretikes and Schismatikes though they be not of the speciall number of them that hold the intire profession of divine truth in unitie and in that respect be a false constitution yet as they professe the truth of God revealed in Christ though maimedly or in part only and as they administer the ordinances or Sacraments of God that which they doe is not a meere nullitie Heresie is Idolatry and cannot beare children to God in that it is heresie but heretikes * See D. Feild of the Church l. 1. c. 14. Aug. de Bapt. cont Donat. l. 1. c. 10 See Chamier panst tom 2. l. 16 c. 4. Hieron ad Algasiam Antichristus sedebit in templo Dei vel Hie osolymis ut quidam putant vel in Ecclesiâ— ut verius arbitiamur 2 Thes 2.3 Whitak de poâ—â— Rom. cont 4. q. 5. p. 681. Licet Ecclesia papistica non sit vera ecclesia retinet tamea aliquas pâ—aerogativas reliquias ecclesiae Dei ergo diâ—i potest aliquo modo templâ— Dei misore prophanatum plus quam seâ—uiuâ—tiâ—â—m pene dirutum alque eversum c Habet illa eâ—clesia Scripturas eâ—sicerrupâ—as pâ—erisâ—ue ignotas tamen aliqui allas legunt intelligent hinc doctâ—â—â—am salutarem hauriuâ— Fst apud illos quoddam minisâ—eâ—ium aliqua verbi prad catio quae valet sine dubio nonnâ—llisad saluteÌ„ est ibi baptismus quoad substantiam c. Calv. instit 4. c. 2. par 11 CAN Stay §. 15. p. 136. §. 7 p 93. may beare children to God in that they professe and practice that which Christians should and doe both professe and practise and have received that degree order office Ministery and calling which is holy by vertue whereof they doo administer the holy things of God The Church of Rome is a false constitution but baptisme administred in that Church is not idolatry nor a meere nullitie
If the Church of Rome were not a Church in some respects but a meere Idoll the Pope could not be that Antichrist a principall rebell a notorious traitor against Christ If we speak absolutely or compare Rome with Churches truly Christian it is no true Church but the Synagogue of Satan But if we speake of it in opposition to the Jewes of Turkes or other professed Infidels it hath so much of a visible Church as a man cannot say it is no Church at all so much true doctrine is in it as sufficeth to support the title of Antichrist and some ordinances are so administred as that it cannot be said they are meer nullities In the true Church many wicked ones are found that are no lesse prophane sacrilegious enemies to peace the vassals of Satan possessed by the Divell dead in sin and accursed of God than heretiks or schismatiks who yet for that they have that order office or degree of ministerie which is holy doe no lesse nor with lesse effect administer the holy sacraments than those who are the samplars of all pietie and vertue The faithfull and holy Ministers administer and receive the Sacraments with good profit and benefit to themselves and others The hypocriticall with benefit to others not to themselves The prophane being not put from their places doe officiate with hurt to themselves scandall to others but to the everlasting comfort of them that partake worthily The hereticall and idolatrous administer the Sacraments that are holy and in their owne nature the meanes pledges and assurances of salvation but without benefit to themselves and others that continue in sin Thus the Prophets Apostles Martyrs and faithfull have held communion in the Ordinances of grace with such whose calling and conversation was not approved of God You say the Martyrs first and last would not receive this distinction lest to save their lives they should lose their soules and you reckon up many who as you write would rather give their bodies to the fire than heare or receive the Sacrament in false Churches or Societies But in this you lavish as in every thing else and hide the truth under the ambiguitie of the phrase The Martyrs laid downe their lives rather than they would defile themselves with idolatry bee present at the Masse or joyne themselves as members of that Antichristian Synagogue in all which they did as becommeth the faithfull servants of Jesus Christ But you cannot produce one Martyr of your opinion who denyed that any thing of God was to be found in those Assemblies or that refused to joyne in the pure ordinances of God with Societies separated from spirituall Babylon because of some defect or may me in their Church constitution In the whole Catalogue of Martyrs try if you can bring forth one who in these things was of your minde And what a vaine thing is it to pretend the example of all the Martyrs when there is not one among them that doth approve your cause If the example of the Martyrs be of any weight with you as here you beare the Reader in hand CAN Neces of separation p. 190 191 192. of necessitie you must condemne your rash and presumptuous censuring your unadvised sinfull separation from the worship and ministerie in our Church as Antichristian and Idolatrous For certaine it is the Martyrs stood members of our Societies and dyed in the defence of that doctrine and worship which we professe and practise Many words you spend in answer to this reason and reproaches you cast upon your adversarie but one word is not to be found that makes directly to take away the force of the Argument It was the answer of Frederick Duke of Saxonie who being prisoner to Charles the fifth and promised releasement if hee would goe to the Masse Summum in terris Dominum agnosco Caesarem in coclis Christum The like did the Prince of Condee but neither of them did refuse to joyne with the reformed Churches because they deemed their Church constitution defective or erroneous in this or that particular To pretend the consent of popish and protestant Divines in this matter is egregious ignorance or impudency for it is well knowne they are all generally of another minde Your instance from a City or Towne Similitudes bee no syllogismes Earthly similitudes of your making may not controll the heavenly precepts of Gods owne giving Bilson Christ part 4. pag. 322. Have you no surer ground of your catholike doctrine for adoring Images than a single similitude taken from the civill and externall reverence that is yeelded to Princes seates and seales Id p. 329. if the Civill power be usurped is not to the purpose nor true in all respects Not to the purpose because what is of God in these Societies is not done by power meerely usurped but by power and vertue from God though in the ministration that which is evill be not approved of God for wheresoever any supernaturall truth of Christian Religion is taught and any ordinances of grace dispensed truly for substance there is some truth of ministery though many wayes polluted And where the intire faith is professed and received and the ordinances of grace administred truly there is a true ministery for substance ordained of God what other defects or maimes soever it may labour under Not true because in the Civill estate That which is done by power usurped and unlawfull in some cases is a nullitie but in other some it is available and stands in force For it is a rule in the Civill law That it is one thing to be a true Magistrate another to bee in the Magistracy or to execute the Magistrates office From which distinction is gathered this generall ruled case or sentence That the acts of him that was a false or unlawfull Magistrate may be lawfull and just And the same may bee said and was ever held in the Church of God of corrupt and ungodly Ministers though they bee not true Ministers that is approved fit and rightly qualified yet so long as they be in the place of Ministers the acts of their ministery be good that is effectuall and of force if they observe the forme of administration prescribed by Christ CAN Stay Sect. 15. pag 133. The Lord hath not promised to them his blessing and acceptance what the Lord may accept or will we dispute not only this I say whosoever heareth in a false Church cannot by any promise that he hath in the word of God expect Gods blessing on that which he doth the reason is because a true constitution of a true Church that is where men are gathered according to the Gospell of Christ is that only lawfull religious societie or communion of Saints wherein God will be honoured whereby hee will bee served and whereto hee hath promised his presence and acceptance so then howsoever we are not bound unto hearing in a true Church necessitate medii as if Gods grace were tyed to the meanes this way
in l. 9. cp 9. Aug. epi. 118 119 See Caranz sum Concil fol. 43. Iustin Martyr Tortullian Clomens Romanus Eactantius and others vvere of opinion that no particular judgement passed upon the Saints untill the laft day Sixt. Sen. Biblioth l. 6. an 345. The Pastors of this age spake more unwarily of justification and grace than was meet prayer for the dead was ordinarie the foundation of prayer unto Saints was laid and defended by the teachers themselves with overgreat zeale in the superstitious vigils and frequenting the Sepulchers of Martyrs The former prophanation of the Sacraments by superstitious rites much increased some whereof are abolished by the papists themselves Libertie is taken from the Ministers the Bishops contend among themselves with ambition hatred affecting high titles and precedencie more than the good of Gods Church the pleasure of peace and securitie tooke away all care of godlinesse Now they seeke the reliques of Saints goe on pilgrimage to Ierusalem consecrate Temples to Martyrs esteeme it more religion to build certaine places and to pray in them than in others and to live by prescriptions and will-worship of Monkes c. than to walke according to the rule of Gods Word Now they give themselves to corrupt religion with idle and impure rites Images that were not mentioned in the first and second ages of the Church in the fourth fifth and sixt age were brought into the Church in some parts painted upon the walles retained for Historicall and Rhetoricall use to informe the understanding and stirre up devotion and of some began to be worshiped which Gregory himselfe disliked Monkes kept the communion at home and wanting a priest communicate themselves No publike assemblies could be found in which the ordinances of God did flourish intirely Augustine complained of the multitude of rites and ceremonies which were in his time wherewith the Church was grievously burdened but in the ages following was much more intolerable Of the particular slips and errours of the ancients it is needlesse to say more Here I would demand was this Church all this while thus corrupted the true church of Christ or a fals was the true worship of God performed in these assemblies the true worship or was it pernicious Idolatry If a true Church then a societie T. C. repl 1. pag. 73 wherein corruption of Doctrine and of the Sacraments hurtfull Ceremonies dominion and pomp of the clergie new orders and functions of the Ministerie is to be found may be the true Church of God And what then can you object against the Church of England to prove it a false Church If a false Church Fulk ansvver to the Rhem. in Eph 4.13 all the true Bishops of the primitive Church for six hundred yeares and more after Christ in all necessary points of doctrine agree vvith us and therefore vvere ancestors of our Church In the later times also for every age vvee can name divers pastours and teachers even in the most darke times c. Calfeh against Mar. preface to the reader Greg. epist. l. 7 indict 2 c. 109. Concil Nicen. a but that Councel vvas not generally received Sigth in an 755. Reger Howden continuat Beda anno 792. Feild of the chuteh l. 3 cap. 8. See Calfehil against Mart. art 3. p. 58 69 c. Bilson Christian subject part 4 page 316 317. This vvas about the yeare of our Lord 1160. See Vsser de suceess Eccles History of the Waldenses Daltha Lydia hist Chaloner credo Eccles part 2 sect 2. then either the faithfull were bound to avoide all societie and fellowship with it in the ordinances which a sober minded man will not affirme or all communicating with a false Church in the ordinances of God is not pernicious idolatry The faithfull which lay hid in this corrupted state of the Church and did partake in the ordinances of worship were never held and reputed Idolaters In the ages following the mystery of iniquitie did grow amaine for the worship of Images first began and after was concluded the Pope obtained to bee called head of the universall Church Saints were invocated as Mediators the Communion was mangled and delivered in one kind the merit and dignitie of workes advanced to the prejudice of Gods grace the doctrine of reall presence and orall eating of Christs flesh in the Sacramant by good and bad and the adoration of the Eucharist was taught and received These grosse corruptions prevailed for a time in the Church before they were concluded upon in Synods or Councels opposed by some condemned by others and manfully withstood especially the worshipping of Images During which time the faithfull who condemned these abominations did lie hid in the Church keeping themselves undefiled from these errours but separated not themselves from the ordinances of grace nor gathered themselves into a distinct body After these abominations were concluded the first that separated themselves were the Waldenses Albigenses or poore men of Lyons who withdrew themselves from the societie of the Romane Synagogue and worshiped God in distinct companies according to his will These are reported to be men of sound life and god linesse by the testimonie of very enemies themselves notwithstanding they were most shamefully traduced and grievously persecuted for Christs sake But after this separation made by them If sheepe in a pasture vvhere venemous hearbs are mixed with vvholsome can by the instinct of nature make choise of that vvhich is proper for them and abstaine from the contrary vvhat marvaile is it if the flocke of Christ vvho know the voice of the true Shepheard from the voice of strangers should by the guidance of Gods assisting spirit doe the same Chaloncredo Cameron dc Eccles ca. de schism See Field of the church l. 3 〈◊〉 6 8. Carleton descript ca. 1 p. 8. divers other godly men did patiently endure the tyranny of Antichrist and groaned under that heavie yoake bewailing the misery and reproving the sinnes of the time sought to reclaime others and labour to keepe their owne selves free but did not actually separate from the societie And this as the learned judge was done if not by Gods commandement at least by gracious indulgence Vntill the time of the Trent Councell saith one the Church although oppugned with errours and deceits of divers kinds oppressed with tyranny did not patiently endure the tyranny of the Pope and the impudency of the Fraterculi And though oftentimes before they had thought of separation yet they could never effect it untill that was fulfilled which the Scripture had foretold It is here to be further noted that neither the Waldenses who first separated nor the reformed Churches which in after times cast off the yoke of Antichrist and abolished his Idolatry did make such a pure and perfect reformation in all things as was to be desired And therefore if they be measured by your meat-wand they must all lye under the censure of false and idolatrous Churches who worship God with a false
and Idolatrous worship or else you must confesse your great words of false Church and false constitution to bear no weight or to be a meere slander If you will tel us distinctly what you mean by false Churches you shall see your whole building to fall of it self For if you understand therby every Church that labours under some disorder or corruption in gathering and constitution doctrine or discipline it is apparently false If you mean that the better part may not oft ly hid under the worser the true Church in the corrupt which may joyne in the use of Gods holy worship by his approbation and with promise of blessing then the proposition is crosse to the maine current of Scripture If by a false Church you understand that whose doctrine and worship is corrupt in the very maine grounds and essentials of faith and worship necessary to salvation your assumption hath no truth in it May you therefore be pleased here to take notice of that which you observe CAN Stay ag §. 4. p. 33 34. as a cleare difference betweene truth and falshood betweene Christs iustitutions and mens inventions Whatsoever God will have us to doe or not to doe hee layes downe the same openly Prov. 8.7 1 Timothy 4.1 precisely manifestly All the words of his mouth are plaine to him that understandeth The Spirit speaketh expresly c. that the truth is simple and plaine Ethnicks by the light of nature could sufficiently see into such things one of them touching this matter saith thus The truth is simple and plaine and needs not varietie of windlaces Another of them hath these words That phrase or form of speaking hath truth in it Cyp. Epist. ad Pomcont Epist Stepha It commeth of too much presumption and frowardnesse that a man had rather defend his owne though it be false and nought than yeeld to anothers deeds and words Resist not truth to maintain your credit God will surely revenge it Bilson differing part 1 page 69. Contigit saepe ut idem pastor sit vero pastor non sit vere postor secundum vocationeÌ„ ligitimam non vere pastor scundum administrationem operationemque ipsius Hieron ad Heliodor Non omnes Episcopi sunt episcopi attende Petrum sed Iudam considera Grat. 2. q. 7. c. Non omnes Ecclesia aliquandt visibiiis est non tantum cum defectibus multis in doctrina disciplina sacramentis administrandi ratione sed etiam cum variis impuris misturis ita ut Ecclesia sit visibilis cum tamen ecclesia ralis quaew in omnibus sequituto possimus sit invifibilis Ames Bellar enerv tom 2 lib. de Eccles which is common and used of all having in it nothing craftily devised neither cloaking some other thing than is professed Contrariwise when Satan speaketh by his instruments he speaketh so ambignously and cloakedly that one knoweth not how to take it nor which way to apply it And so you goe on in many words to the like purpose which if you will apply to your owne manner of disputing and alledging testimonies You shall discover your selfe to be the deceiver who affect ambiguous and equivocall speeches and seeke by mists and fogs of strange and unusuall arguments and sentences wrested to a contrary sense to blinde the eyes and puzzell the understanding of the simple For you hide your selfe under the termes of false â—â—â—ch false ministery false Prophets false worship flying from 〈◊〉 latry taking heed of idols c. which you have taken uâ—â—n a peculiar sense and running along in that straine you pervert the Scriptures wrong Authors consound things to be distinguished dispute sophistically and whiles you boast of cleare proofe divine precepts example and practice of forefathers from the first age of the world hitherto positions holden in all Schooles written in all books preached every day in Sermons taught in all Churches you doe only raise a dust to daisle the eye for let the matter be looked into and you have neither precept divine nor example of godly forefather to justifie your separation What you teach hath beene evermore condemned in Schooles cryed downe in Sermons disallowed in all Churches of the Saints from the very beginning to this day CAN. Stay Sec. 5. pag. 41 42. Sect. 6. pag. 86 To heare Antichr stian Ministers in their unlawfull assemblies is superstition and will-worship Therefore it is sin to doe it The first proposition is grounded upon Levit. 10.1 2. and the same is without exception The second proposition is thus proved 1. From the nature of superstition which is as Zanchie describes it a taking into the worship of God more than he requires in his worship 2 According to the Schoolemen that is superstition when divine worship is not exhibited either to the person it should be Li. 1 de cult extern oppos col 501 502 Aq. 2. 2 ae q. 92 art 1 or not in the way or manner it ought And this is held to bee a sound truth by all Orthodox Divines 3 This hearing cannot be free of superstition in regard men are present at false worship Jdem sect 5. pag. 75 Whosoever takes to himselfe a practice which is not grounded on Gods word and is strict therein hee is just overmuch and presumeth above that which is written and this is their ease who heare unlawfull Ministers for edification And a little before iâ— the same page The hearing stood for is a spirituall eating with Idolaters and men cannot receive the food without pollution And page 80 81. Herein men worship God bâ—y and in a way and meanes which Idolaters will have instituted The which presence as the learned write is a certaine communication therewith 4 It is a great superstition to approve countenance or give honour to any of the wayes of Antichrist They that are sincere christians saith Bucer cannot abide any thing that is his c. 5 It is vitious and superstitious to symbolize with idolaters The Scriptures forbidâ—t and the Saints in all ages have carefully shunned it 6 Superstition is committed when more estimation is had of a thing more dignitie and excellency placed in it and more regard had to it than God alloweth or can stand with his will ANSWER You rowle the same stone up and downe Is there any thing here for substance but what hath beene repeated oft but not prooved once You talke of superstition false worship idolatry giving honour to the wayes of Antichrist and such like great abominations But if we call for proof of these accusations you are glad to fly off and to play least in sight Superstition false worship idolatry is unlawfull that you can say and no man will deny it But that it is false worship idolatry or superstition to hold communion in our assemblies in the ordinances of grace in this if your bare word will not be received here is nothing to beare you out This reason therefore that is for the substance thereof nothing
disliked by godly and learned men so the generall given for direction in such cases be observed 3 We hold it unlawfull outwardly and but in appearance to joyne with Idolaters in their Idolatry Many words in this matter might well bee spared But wee desire to see your commandement why for every particular act that in a large sense is Idolatrous adjoyned to the true worship of God Calfeb against Mar. art 10. p. 185 186. we should forbeare our presence at the worship it selfe or be said to communicate in the sinne there committed For then no man might present himselfe with good conscience at any publike worship of GOD wherein any thing is done amisse for matter or manner which is in effect to say hee cannot bee present at any at all 4 To communicate in the ordinances of God with the Ministers of the Church of England is not to like approve or reverence the institutions of men in the exercises of religion nor to communicate with the Teacher in his sin nor in ought else that is amisse For the worship is of God both for matter and manner And put case the Minister bee disorderly chosen enter not as he ought be Symoniacall covetous froward corrupt idle scandalous doe the people partake in his sin in that they make use of his Ministery No Scripture teacheth any such thing no reason doth confirm it noe approved authors ever said it That which you alledge for proofe falleth utterly short It appertaineth to the vertue of truth Dav. determ 7. p. 40. that as a man sheweth himselfe by externall signes so he is indeed to be esteemed And such as frequent or repair unto unlawfull assemblies for the publike worship of God by their being there are to be reputed of the same religion or else dissemblers as it were to have no care of religion knowing God Dovvay annot in 4. King 5.19 p. 778. but not glorifying him as God But herein you have misrelated the Doway translators for their words are But in a Christian countrey where all beare the name of Christians especially where men are at controversie about the true Christian Religion all that frequent or repaire unto the same assemblies for publike service of God are to be reputed of the same religion or else dissemblers Bodily presence at false worship by which they shew a liking unto it is unlawfull To eate of meates sacrificed unto Idols in the Idoll Temple Your condemning the worship of God performed in our assemblies as pernicious idolatry vvherein is it a lesser sinne han the Popes prohibition of publike prayer and restraint of the Word and Sacraments throughout the Realm you can neither shevv us warrant for it an the Scriptures nor example of it in the Church of God You that so teach and censure stand guiltie of great impietie and they that hearken unto your persvvasions are partakers of your iniquity in some sort of the vvrong imaginations of Christians Aug. in Tract â—o 19. saith Quae omnia idola cordis sunt T. Caepl 1. art 3. pag. 4. is to communicate with Idolaters These things are evident and freely granted But the Assemblie met to call upon God in the mediation of Jesus Christ alone to heare the doctrine of salvation soundly and purely preached to receive the Sacrament rightly administred is not a false idolatrous assemblie they that repaire unto it be not Idolatrous â—â—false worshippers If you esteem of them as they shew themselves by out ward signes you must esteem them to be of the true religion and the true worshippers of God according to his will The ministerie in that assembly to be true sound and faithfull and of God of substance In this lieth the point of the controversie which you are contented to passe by in silence without any proofe at all But if any humane frailtie or infirmitie cleave to the ministerie or congregation in respect of doctrine manners lawes government or order which concernes not the life and soul but only the safety of the Church or wellfare of Religion In these a Christian doth not partake by his presence at the ordinances as the Scripture reason and the approved practice of the Saints in all ages of the Church do plentifully witnesse This is the judgement and practice of the Nonconformists and therefore they professe they praise God for this reformation so farre forth as it is agreeable to the Word of God they are glad the Word of God is preached that the Sacraments are administred that which is wanting they desire to be added that which is overmuch cut off But that a Christian must separate from the Word and Sacrament by reason of some superfluities or defects is no responsive conclusion that can be gathered soundly from their writings CAN Stay Sect. 5. pag. 66. In preaching of the truths of the Gospell by a false Minister an Idolatrous act is performed For Divine worship is not to be determined by a particular thing howbeit in it selfe good but as the essentiall parts belonging thereto whether they are persons or things are kept and observed The Church of Rome in Baptisme useth water and in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper gives bread and wine otherwhile too doth this cleare their administrations of Idolatry I think all men doe thinke that Vzziah committed an Idolatrous act 2 Chron. 26.16 when he invaded the Priests office But what made it so tooke he unlawfull incense no. Vsed he strange fire no. Offered hee prohibited Sacrifice or upon a wrong Altar No Where then lay the fault the Scripture telleth us Verse 18. it pertained not to him to burne incense unto the Lord but to the sons of Aaron To apply this if his act were Idolatrous because he wanted a calling howbeit observed many truths of the law By the same reason the Church acts of Artichristian Ministers are Idolatrous yea and as for the truths which they preach this cleares their acts no more from Idolatry than Vzziahs true Incense and the Altar quitted him from transgression ANSWER Your great words are of small force CAN. Stag. §. 3. p. 56. for should I speake my conscience it is your phrase They are words without weight of reason For still you presuppose the Ministerie of the Church of England to bee false and idolatrous which is to beg not to conclude the question But that being presupposed let us see how you goe forward In preaching the truth of the Gospell by a false Minister an Idolatrous act is performed you say But doth the Scripture say so Do you read it in the Law or in the Prophets in the Apostles or in the Evangelists The Scribes and Pharisees were false Ministers but it was not an Idolatrous worke in them to expound the Law of Moses or dispence other Church ordinances at that time commanded The popish Priests and Bishops are false Prophets but the simple administration of Baptisme by them is not an idolatrous act The Minister that is prophane and
hateth to be reformed is a false Minister and hath nothing to doe to take the covenant of God into his mouth but the Word preached by a treacherous Judas proud Diotrephes covetous Demas or one that envieth the prosperitie of Saints and peace of Ierusalem is not an Idolatrous act If it be Idolatrous in him that performeth it yet it doth not follow that it is idolatrous in them that joyne in the ordinance Let it bee idolatrous in the priests who despise knowledge and live prophanely put case Elies sons to offer sacrifice it is idolatrous likewise for the people to appeare before God in his holy Temple That Vzziah committed a grievous offence when he invaded the Priests office all men thinke In what respect all men conceive it to be an idolatrous act I cannot say but all false Ministers do not usurpe the Priests office as Vzziah nor all things done by false Prophets Ex. 30.7 8. Psal 141.2 Apoc. 8 3. Moller in Ps 141.2 Heris ibid. Deod Bibâ— Ital. annot in Psa 141.2 Apoc. 8.3 Oriin Ios hom 17. tom 1. Est in coelis all re Paschal Rhadbert in Lam. Ier. l. 2. Biblioth pat tom 9. paâ—t 1. Christus altare â—â—edi uâ— esse hostia sacrifiâ—ium pont fex sacerdos Ambr. Enar. in Ps 118. Greg. Magan Psa 7 paenit Altare Domini Christus An. Ex of Dâ—â— censure art 15 p. 19. to be matched with Vzziahs offering incense For the offering of Incense was typicall and might be a shadow of Christs intercession and so the act of Vzziah might be Idolatrous and in that particular directly crosse to the institution of God But many Church actions typifie no such thing Vzziah had no calling to offer incense but some false Ministers may have some calling to administer the things of God though they be not approved of God Vzziah could not offer incense in any respect by authoritie from God but a false Minister in one respect may be called of God in some other to doe an act ministeriall that is by authoritie from God hee may doe some acts for substance lawfull and effectuall though the Minister himselfe be not approved Thus the Nonconformists upon whose grounds you pretend to build your conclusions let it be as the censure reporteth that his words are of a Minister which cannot preach Doth he doubt whether he be in any respect a a Minister or no because he saith if I may so call him Indeed this manner of speaking declareth that he judgeth him that cannot preach a man unworthy to bee a Minister but he doth not deny him altogether But in your esteeme all Ministers not called and ordained of that particular Church whereunto they doe administer and performing their authoritie by vertue and authoritie derived from them are false Ministers because all other administer by power usurped and Antichristian which is with one breath to blast all the worship and service which hath beene done unto God in the congregations of his Saints for this fourteene or fifteene hundred yeares or more CAN. Stay Sec. 5. pag. 76. It is very true said of one Lavater In Iosh 22 hom 63. we ought not to conclude of an action that it is good because it hath in it something which in it selfe is so and this is true as in things divine Omne totum suis partibus ordinatur mensuratur determinatur so in humane too For it is a knowne tenent of Philosophers The whole is composed measured and determined of all the parts ANSWER It is true an action is not good Aqu. 1.2 qu. 8. art 3. Cameron pralâ—ct Tom. 2. p. 49. Amb Catharin in the Councell of Trent l. 2. p. 224. CAN. Stay Sect. 6 page 85. Rutgers instit Metaphys l. 2. cap. de Bon. Quemadmodum convenientia ad rationalem Naturam â—â—ve dictamen rectae rationis consurgit in actu honesto ex bonitate objecti finis aliarum circumstantiarum ita contraria disconvenientia seu defectus in malo culpae consurgit ex defectu illorum in actione ita ut si vel minimum contrariuÌ„ desit actus exeostatim reddatur culpabilis five pectaminosus Dionys dixit Bonum est ex integra causa malum autem ex quolibet defectu Revet in Hosea 4.14 p. 152. Iob 14 4. Hag. 2 12 13. See Iun. iâ— loe unlesse all circumstances required to the doing of a good act be observed but the act good in it-selfe is evill in the doer if one circumstance bee evill For every thing that is morally good must be conformable to the rule which that which is defective in any part required cannot be But how shall this bee applyed to the purpose Is every deficient act forthwith Idolatrous Or that which is by circumstance unlawfull in the doer because of his failing unlawfull to every one that doth communicate with him in the Ordinance but not in the defect If a Minister preach Christ of envie doe they sinne that heare sincerely and receive the truth in love If a man give almes in vaine-glory doth the poore man sinne who receives it in humilitie and thanksgiving An action done in one forme and manner may be sinne which in another forme and manner is the true worship of God which may be observed of him that is present in our Assemblies CAN. Ibid. As Iob saith who can bring a cleane thing out of an uncleane Not one But the false office is uncleane as is acknowledged And this further may bee amplified by that passage of the Prophet where it is shewed That holy things are polluted by touching things which are uncleane ANSWER That which is uncleane cannot causally univocallie and properlie bring forth that which is cleane but instrumentally it may A profane Minister may be the instrument of God to convert a sinner from the errour of his way and indispensation of the Sacrament seale to the worthy receiver the pardon of his sinne though he himselfe reape no profit or benefit thereby For herein the good that is wrought is not effected by any vertue or power in the Minister who is the Lords Officer or instrument but by the power of Gods Spirit and his free grace who knoweth how to use and blesse evill instruments for his owne purpose An uncleane Officer or person pollutes the holy things of God to himselfe but not to others who use them in faith according to the Lords appointment Why you should referre us to Iunius annotations I see not unlesse it be to shew us your forwardnesse to quote Authors which make nothing to your purpose For all that Iunius observeth is this That the Iewes being impure and polluted in heart did receive no sanctitie from the touch of Temple or Altar CAN. IBID. If in preaching the truth no Idolatrous act is performed then it will follow Ibid. Sect. 11. p. 116 They need not by his vvriting leave their unblessed standing For so they preach the truths of the Gospell they sinne not And then
vvhat need is there to lay dovvne their false office I cannot say of this mans Logicke as Aristotle did of Theodorus his making Epithites It is his vvhole art CAN. Stay p. 27. that a man may remaine a Minister of a false Church all his life time provided hee onely teach the truths of the Gospell Our reason is for in this if he doe no idolatrous act then hee sinneth not and so consequently no just cause of his comming out from among them ANSWER Ill might you twit your adversarie with his little skill in Logicke unlesse it was done in policie to hide your own loosenes in this and the like arguments For though it be not an Idolatrous act to preach the truth of the Gospell in a false Church in other respects it may be sinne to continue a member in that societie and so also to teach the Gospels Truths As it may be scandalous and offencive an appearance of evill A man may doe that whereunto he is not called from an evill mind Also it may bee sinne to continue in a false Church though a man teach nothing but the truth of the Gospell because he cannot professe all maine and fundamentall truths or that border thereupon nor testifie against all corruptions grosse haereticall reallie Idolatrous which in Conscience cannot bee tolerated or borne withall without grosse hypocrisie or dissimulation or hee cannot keep himselfe from the tincture of Idolatrie in practicâ— As for example though it be not an Idolatrous act for a Popish Priest to preach the Gospell or administer the Sacraments of Baptisme yet it is not lawfull for a Christian to remaine as a member in that society because he cannot partake with them in the Ordinances but he shall commit reall Idolatrie or must dissemble many grievous and hatefull abominations which cannot bee dissembled and shall bee thought to bee of the same Religion with them or of no Religion c. The multitude of Authors which you quote against hearing false Prophets or continuing in false Churches doe they not give other reasons why wee ought to separate from them or doth any one ever lay this down as a truth or foundation of separation In the page following you alledge sixe reasons which you say may bee applyed against the going with others to an Idol ministerie Church or worship c. But if they bee of any strength this reason whereof now wee speake is nought worth for they are directly crosse Here you say If in preaching the truth of the Gospell he doe no Idolatrous act he sinneth not but there you say he sinneth many other wayes But in all this you take that for granted which we confidently denie sc That our Churches worship or Ministerie is false and Idolatrous And therefore taking the proposition in your sense we say It is not only lawfull but necessary to remaine Ministers or members of some Churches which lye under your censure as false and Idolatrous but indeed are the true Ministers and Churches of Iesus Christ graced with his presence covered with his banner and beautified with his Ordinances and tokens of love And that which you call an unblessed standing wee make no question but it is approved and blessed of Christ and therefore regard your reviling the lesse Can. Stay Sect. 5. Pag. 73. If a man performe an action in a state and of publike nature he is to be considered in respect of himselfe as is that state and according to the publike Ordinances For if the state be false and the officer unlawfull it is familisme for him to say I know this state is set up against the Lord Iesus Christ and every commer here to worship according to the constitution is an Idolater but I will have in my selfe a secret meaning from the rest Id. page 77. Seeing false Churches and false Ministers are reall Idols set up by earthly Princes c. Whosoever comes and bovves before those Idols cannot escape the just blame of Idolatry Id. pag. 73. This is a sure thing and let it bee noted No administration performed in a state and by a power and constituted office can be sought desired and received but in so doing the doer ipso facto really approves of that state power and office bee the same lawfull or unlawfull And as for any mans saying to the contrary it is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne Head and will prove as good as the miracles which Iannes and Iambres wrought even meanes to harden his owne heart and some others as they did Pharaohs by doing them ANSWER You say it is an easie thing to Conquer CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 66. Wee are no such Children as to give the cause so avvay CAN. Necess of sep p. 226. But this vvee cannot give him though hee begge it shamefully because the thing is othervvise as their ovvne vvritings manifest CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 74. Calfeh against Mart art 3. page 86. if begging might procure it and if confident assertions will carrie a matter you will not goe without it But we must not be driven from the Church the Ordinances and worship of God communion with Christ and societie of Saints by an emptie blast of words No though you shamefully boast you have proved it by our owne writings Doe you thinke your bold impudent asseveration that any mans saying to the contrarie is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne head will make us by and by yeeld to your definitive sentence for which you can produce neither Scripture nor reason nor authoritie but your owne as if your ipse dixit Pope-like were to be rested in Wee are no such Children We are not to be feared with rattles You must bring better matter than your vaine fictions and sounder proofe than vaine repetitions of the same things over and over or else you must expect small credit to bee given unto your words They that joyn together in the worship of God Ambr. in Luk. 6. c. 9. Fides Ecclesiae imprimis quaerenda in quâ si Christus habitator sit haud dubiè legenda c. sed siqua est Ecclesia quae fidem respuat nec Apostolicae praedicationis fundamenta possideat ne quam labem perfidiae posâ—it aspergere deserenda est Sadeel de legit Minist vocat p. 6. Aug. Ex. 166. Our heavenly Master gave us vvarning before hand to make the people secure touching evill overseers lest for their sakes the chaire of vvholesome doctrine should be forsaken And Tract in Ioh. 46. The Lords fold hath some overseers that bee Children some that be hirelings ordinances of Religion they approve the faith protessed in points fundamentall the worship performed for the substance Ordinances administred and the truth of Ministerie for substance whereby these things are dispensed For of necessitie if the doctrine of salvation be restored the lawful use of the ministery is restored also Where God is truelie called upon in the Congregation and the Sacraments
quam Bileami Qui inter quaestiones Christianorum hanc fuisse docet cur Balaam tam manifesta de Christo praedixisset Quem ipse ad Iob 32. de cognitione Abrahan ifuâ—sse docet D. Heins exâ—rcit sacr in Mat. 2. which is spoken of the Prophets in Judah Neverthelesse seeing he is called a Diviner as they are said to take divinations in their hands scil the wages of iniquitie and as there is no divination against Israel that is magicall incantations cannot availe against Jsrael whom God doth protect with his presence I doe rather subscribe to them who conceive that he was a Witch or Wizard than the prophet of God Neither doth the deliverie and utterance of some truth make a true prophet for the Heathen Witches and Wizards nay the Divel himselfe hath spoken some truth that he might the better deceive But as the possession of all supernaturall truth necessarie to salvation is proper to the Church so to preach the whole counsell of God unto his people is the speciall badge of a true Prophet and the fruit whereby hee is knowne Marke this well for to use your owne phrase it sheweth all your answer to be coecum insomnium a vain dream and nothing else It is the note of a false Prophet to run when God doth not send him But can it be shewed that ever Minister did teach the whole counsell of God unto his flocke â—er 14.14 23.21 27.15 Vnreasonabl of separation p. 6. Though it be no new thing that the Ministers of Antichrist should in divers things bring the truth with them yet this is a new thing and never heard of before That the Ministers of Antichrist should teach the whole truth of Iesus Christ for the substance therof That they should oppose directly and zealously against the maine and fundamentall doctrines of Antichrist c. 〈◊〉 42.19 who was not sent of God The places cited make it evident that they whom God did not send they taught false things in his name as they run when he sent them not so they prophesied when he spake not unto them In some cases it is true the Church for a time may bee without Ministers as when the pastor is taken away by death or the Church dispersed by persecution or the people negligent to procure teachers and the like But ordinarily the Church is not destitute of true Ministers nor is there a true ministerie to be found but in the Church And therefore seeing the societie professing the true faith intirely and holding the communion of Saints is the true Church the Ministers teaching sound doctrine in those societies and maintaining the unitie of the Spirit must of necessitie be true Ministers But every unlawfull Minister say you is a false Prophet for these two are all one This is spoken ambiguously and must be distinguished before any direct judgement can bee passed upon it What then doe you understand by unlawfull Minister Is he an unlawfull Minister who is not approved of God designed by Christ qualified as he ought chosen orderly but out of favour partialitie faction or schisme Or is he an unlawfull Minister who teacheth corruptly seeketh not that which was lost bindeth not up that which was broken puts not the weake into his bosome grieveth the godly strengtheneth the hands of the wicked and walketh prophanely Is he an unlawfull Minister who being a secret heretike CAN Necess of Separation page 237. If one bee ordained a Pastor according to Christs institution hee hath certainly lawfull ministerie howsoever things shall afterward fall out yeâ— though hee should sing Masse and Mattens as hee speaketh But hee asketh if any that is in his wits will say so yes and prove it also and if hee himselfe had not wanted some wit in this point he would not thus have confounded one thing so absurâ—ly with another for as a person may bee a servant or subject truly and fully and yet doe afterwards the actions of thieves rebels traitors so a man may take a true Ministerie by ordination and yet in his life and doctrine doe wickedly and â—â—serve justly to be deposed is chosen and ordained by the communitie where hee is to administer without due tryall and examination or being rashly and unadvisedly elected doth after neglect his dutie altogether teach perverse things administer coruptly sing Masse and Mattens If none of these be unlawfull Ministers in your esteeme it will be no losse to us if we grant the proposition for we may boldly affirme if you search our Ministerie with a candle and lanthorn it will bee found true and of God If you take a false prophet and unlawfull Minister in that strict sense as to exclude all the former there is not one Minister a member of our Church that can be a false Prophet If you take all these for unlawfull ministers then all unlawfull Ministers are not false prophets in your account Or else it is lawfull to hold communion with some false prophets which you peremptorily would seeme to deny The want of an outward calling you say makes a man an unlawfull minister and so you might say Ier. 2.8 Ter. de praescript advers Haeret. c. 36. Vnde autem extranâ—i inimici Apostoâ—iâ— haeretici nisiâ—ex diversitate doctrinae quam unusquisque de suo arbitrio adversus Apostolos aut protulit aut recepit doth the want of right qualification and conscionable discharge of his duty for God hath threatned both the one and the other that they shall be no priests unto him both the one and the other are idols in phrase of Scripture But he can not be a minister in a societie of Christians professing the true and intire faith and enjoying the blessing of the Sacraments who is utterly destitute of an outward calling In some Churches the calling is more compleat and exact than in others and at some times things have beene more orderly handled than at others but in all Churches there is an outward calling and effectuall to the truth of the ministerie Long since it was objected against the Nonconformists that they say the Gospell is not truly preached in England because there is no lawfull calling to the ministerie whereunto they have returned this answer We do not say that there is no lawfull or no ordinarie calling in England for we doe not deny but that he may be lawfully called which is not ordinarily as Luther Melancthon Zuinglius and there bee places in England where the Ministers are called by their parishes in such sort as the examples of Scripture doe shew to have been done before the Eldership and government of the Church was established T.C. repl 1. answ to the exhor p. 3. I know not any that saith the Gospell is not truly preached in England and by those that are not of the same judgement that the admonition to the Parliament is of CAN. Necess of Separ pag. 55. The Ministery of England as it is established by law doth
certainly depend upon the Bishops calling wholly and no manâ— else and if any in the Land stand otherwise hee cannot properly be said to be a Minister of that Church but rather is a schismatike from it Id. p. 57. according to the formall constitution of it c. The most free Parish hath but only a liberty to admit of a Minister before made by the Bishops so that the people give him not any part much lesse the substance of his calling Id. p. 61. but a bare permission only to exercise by vertue of that calling But none may heare or have spirituall communion with such a Ministerie Id. p. 213. whose calling doth essentially depend upon the Bishops calling If the ministerie of the Prelates belong not to any ordinarie assemblies then is the same Antichristian and so consequently is that which is derived from it And so much from their own principles wee have formerly proved Id. p. 213. The Ministerie begotten by the Prelatesis illegitimate and false I say those which take their offices and callings from them are bastardly Ministers The Ordination of Priests and Deacons by the Prelates is unlawfull and Antichristian and the Ministery is false so long as they doe retain that false calling which they tooke first of the Bishops Id. p. 45. they of the Pope and he from the Divell Whosoever he be that dealeth with the holy things of God and worketh upon the consciences of men See CAN Stay §. 6. p. 78.79 by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling him the people of God ought not to receive or joyne themselves unto But all the Parsons Vicars Parish Priests stipendaries c. that stand over the Church Assemblies in England deale with the holy things of God and worke upon mens consciences by vertue of an Antichristian power office and calling ANSWER Vpon this one prop lyeth all the weight of your building wheâ—em you strangely triumph as if you had stopped the mouth of the Non-conformists for ever that either they must goe backe from what they have writen against the abuses of the ministery or confesse they have said and unsaid as occasions have changed now maintaining that as right which even now they condemned as false and Antichristian And this you presse over and over with great confidence and insolencie But this stay I have plucked out of your hands already and shewed that this exception hath no weight or soundnesse either from truth or Non-conformists principles In answer to this renewed blast of words I will briefly repeate what hath been proved more at large Bilson Christian subject part 2. page 296. Bishops have their Authority to preach and administer the Sacraments not from the Prince but from Christ Himselfe Goe teach all Nations c. onely the Prince giveth him publiked libertie without let oâ— disturbance to doe that which Christ commandeth Id. p. 309. The charge which the Preachers and Bishops of England have over their flocks proceedeth neither from Prince nor Pope ner dependeth on the will or word of any earthly creature Chaloner Credo second par◠§. 2. He which conferres Baptisme and Orders as the principall Donor is Christ the Bishop or Pastor confers them only as his instrument August contr Crescon l. 4. c 6. per ministros dâ—spares Dei miâ—us aequâ—â— est quitâ—n â—â—illorum sed ejus est CAN. Stay §. 3. p. 60. August in Psalme 10. Christ sent him that betrayed him Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 860. The ghostly worke is Gods the bodily service is the Priests wherein Iudas the thiefe Simon the Sorcerer c. may challenge as James c. First the Ministers of the Gospell derive not their authority or office from the Bishop Patron Presbyterie or people but immediately from Iesus Christ whose servants they are whose words they preach whose Sacraments they administer whose flocke they feed by whom they are protected and to whom they must give account If he be an Antichristian Minister who derives his authoritie from the Classis or Bishop he is Antichristian likewise who derives it from the communitie of the faithfull for neither the one nor the other can justly challenge that authoritie to themselves The Bishop Colledge Ecclesiasticall or Church cannot make a Minister formally or vertually but only as Stewards they put him in office whom Christ the King of Saints and head of the Church hath designed Wherein if Pastors or people shall walke disorderly challenging more than of right belongeth unto them or giving up their right through sloth negligence ignorance or security or not attending unto the direction of the great Shepheard of the flocke shall chuse a man unfit or not well qualified or shall proceed rashly tumultuously upon misguided affection in that weightie businesse though they incurre just blame and reprehension yet that makes not a nullitie of the Ministery or of the Ordinances dispensed upon that Election and Ordination Your selfe telleth us and that from the example of the Scribes and Pharisees That men being lawfully called to the Ministery are to be heard howsoever in some qualifications defective And if disorderly proceeding in election or want of just and fit qualification in the person elected do not make the election voyd how shall the meere want of consent in the people cause a nullity in the ministration If the carelesse or wilfull neglect of administration and execution of his office cause not a nullitie of the choyce Vnreasonablenesse of Separ p. 56. They may acknowledge a further calling than that of the Prelates yet not therein renounce the calling received from them for the Prelates being learned Divines and having approved their gifts and by words and Letter te stimoniall giving liberty to execute the Ministery of the Gospell they doe not therby thrust them into a Ministery but leave them c An Examin of D. â— Cen. p. 33. why shall the lacke of the peoples suffrage which they voluntarily have given away or otherwise lost make the ordinances dispensed by him that is chosen to be of none effect 2. The consent of the people is not required to make a man simply a Minister neither doth Episcopall Ordination make a man the Minister of this or that people Therefore it doth not hinder but a man may bee made Minister by the Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church and a Minister of this or that people by the free choice approbation and consent of the faithfull So in the fourth age of the Church somtimes the people would chuse a Minister whom they thought meete and afterward bring him to the Bishop to be admitted by him as appeareth in the worke of Chrysostome de Sacer of the chusing of Basil when Iohn Chrysostome himselfe gave him the slip Sometimes the Bishop would espie a meete man himselfe and require the consent of the people to chuse â—s it appeareth by Augustine in the election of Eradius to be his successor 3. The
p 32. The practice of the greatest part of the reformed Churches in observing holy dayes cannot commend them in the Church of Scotland 1 Because shee did spue them out wiâ—h so great detestation that shee is more bound to abhorre them than other Churches which did not the like I may wel apply that to them which Caivin saith of the ceremonies of some to Valentinus Pacaeus Vt concedam faetidas illas sordes quibus purgatae fuerunt Ecclesiae vestrae in rebus med is posse censeri carum tamen restitutio erit res media CAN Stay sect 5. p 75.76 and in some cases necessarie to receive the Sacrament with them that kneel in our assemblies And now consider to whom the imputation of folly boldnesse inconsideratenesse and if you will falshood is justly to be attributed To these particulars I will adde one more whereby we may learne what we are to expect and looke for at your hands I think to make known unto thee thus you write what hapned about seven years past in England There was a Gentleman of Warwickshire by name M. Edward Greswold a man very religious as many besides my selfe can testifie Hee and I being bosome friends or to use his owne common saying our hearts being as Davids and Ionathans knit together upon just cause we both left the parish assemblies He afterward by the meanes of some craftie men was perswaded unto hearing againe upon this he fell into great trouble of Spirit and could have no feeling assurance of any peace with God remaining thus a while at length he sent a letter by his servant unto me the which I have kept a long time by me in this letter he largely acknowledgeth his offence and among other passages writes thus Ah you are happy but I by my fall am miserable and wretched and for the present time I feele my soule to be no otherwise than if I were in Hell c. ever since I went to their assemblies I have observed the Lords hand against me c. Wherefore I beseech you by the mercies of God set a day apart for me and seeke the Lord by fasting and praying that the water-flood overflow me not c. what his refreshings were after this I cannot say the report is that to his changing he had sad and sorrowfull dayes notwithstanding I am confident that his soule is with Christ in paradise As I am writing this I thinke of the words of the Prophet My flesh trembleth for feare of thee and I am afraid of thy judgements He that is wise will consider of these things For as one saith providing before is better than repenting afterward Psal 119 120. Hal. Antiq. Rom. lib. 11 It is no marvaile that false Churches by some are called officina scelerum carnificina sanctorum shops of wickednesse and shambles of the Saints for what can a tender conscience expect in frequenting them but indeed pricks racks and tortures This is your Relation and the use you make thereof But if you know not how it fared with this distressed Gentleman thus it was He shut up himselfe and his children in his house and would come at no man nor suffer any man to come at him lest hee should communicate with them in their sin Sustenance for himselfe and his Children was brought unto them and put in at some hole or window but hee suffered no man to come in to minister unto them no not when his children and he himselfe lay sick in great misery When by order his house was broken open for the Justices of peace in consideration of his case were constrained thereunto two of his children were found dead in the house and one had lyen so long unburied that the body was corrupted and did annoy the roome The Gentleman himselfe sick on his bed in wofull plight His Bible he had gone thorough and cut out the contents titles and every thing but the very Text it selfe This I have received from credible hands and it is a matter known through that countrie where he lived And if you marke it wisely you may see the originall of his sorrow and heavinesse was not from the hearing of the Word in our assemblies but from your principles which he had too deeply drunk in and out of a desire to keepe and observe made himselfe desolate It is very likely he thought with himselfe that if by hearing the doctring of grace hee did communicate with men in their sins much more was guilt contracted by civill conversings And if you will try it in right reason I cannot see how that consequence from your principles can be avoided Now he desirous to stick to what he had learned and not to delude himself with vaine distinctions as too many of the separation doe fel first into deepe perplexitie and then at last came unto that desperate conclusion to shut up himselfe and his children It is one of your principles That all humane devices whatsoever in the worship of God are idolatrous and therefore conceiving the contents of the Chapters and titles of the bookes to be of men hee cut them out And further it is likely he would have gone if his thoughts had reached further in this matter It was your great sinne to perswade him to separation and it is your great sinne now to impute the cause of his sorrow distresse and anguish to his hearing the Word in our societies when as it was the naturall fruit of his rash and sinfull separation or of those positions whereupon his separation was builded wherein if he was not first instructed he had been built up by you Let false Churches be shops of wickednesse and the shambles of the Saints In our societies the doctrine of faith and pietie is soundly and purely taught our adversaries being judges a thousand thousands can testifie by experience what oule-ravishing comforts and sweet communion with God may be had therein When you wrote these things you had just cause to take shame and sorrow that you had brought a poore soule thus into the snare of your seducements but to take occasion thereby to encourage others harden your selfe in an evill way and to revile and slander the heritage of the Lord is an argument of how great perversnesse You are confident he is with Christ in paradise and I will not goe about to lessen your confidence therein But if you may bee confident of him may not we be confident of the Martyrs who dyed cheerefully for the testimonie of the Lord Jesus being professed members of our societies Infallible knowledge of anothers salvation we challenge not but what you can pronounce confidently of one we may with equall or greater confidence pronounce of many who laid downe their lives for the truth of God And therefore the reason drawne from the practice of the Martyrs professing against Antichrist who lived and dyed members of our Societies and are received into glory to prove that our societies are not Antichristian idolatrous
right Religion Else the Heretiques in England would never have received so much of it For some have avouched it to my face saith the Author of the Curtaine of Church-power that the service there is nothing to the Masse in the English others that it wants nothing but the Popes consecration These things thus retrived it was also thought that popish Kings and Princes would be the lesse offended what marvaile seeing the Jesuites themselves are so well pleased with the ceremonies and service that I heard one of them God is my witnesse herein make it his hope that the maintenance of them against the Puritans would make England the sooner returne to Rome in the rest Quâ—vadis sec 4. Mine eyes and eares saith Bishop Hall can witnesse with what approofe and applause divers of the catholique royall as they are termed entertained the new translated Liturgies of our Church Which is the lesse wonder seeing Pope Pius the fourth sending Vicentio Parpatia Cambd. An. 1560. Abbot of Saint Saviours to Queene Elizabeth offered to confirme the English Liturgie by his Authoritie if shee would yeeld to him in some other things Indeed it pleased them so well Fresh suit l. 1 203. that for the first eleven yeares of Queene Elizabeth Papists came to the English Church and service as the Lord Cooke sheweth L. Cooke de jure Regis Eccles f. 34. Syons plea. 49.91 Others of them affirme the same namely their Church-service pleaseth marveilous well the Romish Beast and his ungodly followers Witnesse the Pacification of the Devonshire-Papists in the time of King Edward the sixth when as they understood it was no other but the very Masse-booke put into English Witnesse also the assertion of Dr Carrier a dangerous seducing Papist The common-prayer-booke saith he and the Catechisme conteined in it hold no point of doctrine expresly contrary to Antiquitie that is Consider pag. 45. sect 8 9. as he explaineth himselfe the Romish-service onely hath not enough in it And for the doctrine of predestination Sacraments grace free-will and sin c. The new Catechismes and Sermons of the Puritan-preachers run wholly against the common-prayer and Catechisme therein conteined c. Motiv Preface to the Answ And thereupon he comforteth himselfe upon the hope of the supply of the rest To this effect speaketh Bristow and Harding If these things be right why not the rest It shall not be amisse to marke one occurrence in Queene Elizabeths time who being interdicted by the Popes Bull Secretary Walsingham tryed a tricke of State-policy to reverse the same He caused two of the Popes Intelligencers at the Popes appointment to be brought as it were in secret into England to whom he appointed a guide being a State Intelligencer who should shew them in Canterbury and London service solemnly sung and said with all their pomp and procession Which order the popish Intelligencers seeing and so much admiring they wondred that their Master would be so unadvised as to interdict a Prince or State whose service and ceremonies so symbolized with his owne So returning it the Pope they shewed him his oversight affirming that they saw no service ceremonies or Church-order's in England but they might have very well beene performed in Rome whereupon the Bull was presently called in That which you alledge against the English-Service-booke in particular Answer you intend against all set-formes of prayer or stinted Liturgies whatsoever For the use of them is a false devised idolatrous antichristian worship in your account Thus you know your Brethren of the Separation have disallowed all set and stinted formes Johnson Ainsworth Robinson Greenewood c. as humane inventions forbidden in the second Commandement Images Will-worship Idol-prayers False-worship Lip-labour c. And you your selfe insist upon this principle of the Nonconformists as the cause of Separation from the Church of England that all formes of worship not prescribed of God are will-worship which if it maketh against one holdeth against all prescribed Liturgies Can. Neces of Separat pag. 114. Id. pag. 115. Againe you confesse that every Church is not to be forsaken or left which hath something in it by participation idolatrous And therefore our Service is not devised worship because it is taken out of the Masse-booke as you alledge but simply because it is devised whencesoever it had its originall if it be devised worship First therefore we must consider the matter in generall Oylsâ—hil speaking of Images brought into the Church saith Wee might justly condemn the whole faithlesse fond invention For it was but a will-worship a naughtie service having no ground of the Word of God and onely spring of errour Calf Preface to the Reader testifieth Bilson Christ subject part 2. p. 297. That Princes may prescribe what faith they list what service of God they please what forme of administration of the Sacraments they thinke best is no part of our thought or point of our doctrine yet that Princes may by their lawes prescribe the right faith to bee preached the right service of God in spirit and truth to be used c. T. C. repl 1. pag. 8. Park of the Crosse par 1. ca. 4. sect 7. pag. 177. A. W. ans to late popish Artic. p. 73. and then try what is alledged against our booke of Common-prayer These words Formes of worship may be taken two wayes First to note the substantiall parts or meanes of worship and in this sense it is most true That all formes of worship not prescribed of God are unlawfull and false worship because devised by men Secondly To note a bare order methode or phrase wherein divine Service is performed And in this sense the Nonconformists never said That all formes of worship not prescribed are false or devised worship For they know that no forme is determined and prescribed of God precisely in all parts of his worship and where none is set apart by his Majestie it is a breach of his Commandement and devised worship to place an opinion of worship in the simple order or phrase of speech used in prayer or administration of holy things The Nonconformists condemne not a Liturgie or stinted forme of prayer but desire that all things therein might be ordered as doth tend most to edification Whatsoever exceptions they have taken against our Booke of Common-prayer they never disliked the use of it so far as they judged it sound and good They doe not condemne it wholly but finde fault with it as in some points disagreeing with the word of God What hath beene their seeking from time to time a razing of the Communion Booke No but a purging and filing of it after the patterne of that care which former examples set us The Booke of Common-prayer they condemne not as a wicked and ungodly Booke much lesse the Service as false devised and idolatrous but they have and doe use the booke and professe their readinesse so to doe onely they desire to
is bound to separate from that societie wherewith he is not permitted to hold communion in the worship of God without sinne and that a man cannot hold communion with the Church of England in the worship of God without sinne The first of these propositions is most true taught in Scripture which forbiddeth q Rom. 3.7 8. to doe evill that good may come thereof or r Iob 13.9 tell a lie for the glory of God and acknowledged by the learned of all sorts and professions whatsoever If the Church shall deny communion to any member because he will not approve the least sinne or acknowledge the least knowne errour for truth in that case the Church is schismaticall which doth cast out such a member and not the member which doth suffer himselfe injuriously to be cast out For God needs not my lie and by divine precept I am obliged not to allow against conscience what the Lord condemneth You need not therefore take such paines as you doe to prove the corruptions in our Booke of publique service to be so many in number or hainous in quality as you would make the world beleeve much lesse to straine your conscience in misreporting as you have done For if you can shew that by communicating in the ordinances of worship in that or any other societie or Church under Heaven we necessarily partake in sinne of what sort soever great or small either approving what is unlawfull or subscribing to an errour knowne so to be it will easily be granted that it is unlawfull to joyne in that communitie Be the s The good Kings of Judah were favoured and blessed of God for walking in the waies of David their Father and purging the Land from all sacrifices and ceremonies not prescribed by Moses Law Bils Christ subject part 1. p. 32. But if the Princes were remisse the people were not commanded to separate from the ordinances of worship corruptions few or many great or small if by communicating in the ordinances of grace in that societie I must necessarily partake in sinne small or great one or many my communicating is unwarrantable And let the abuses be many and great yet if I may be present at the true worship of God without sinne consent unto or approbation of such abuses or corruptions in voluntary separation I sinne against God his Church and mine owne soule withdrawing my selfe from the ordinances of grace the comfortable presence of Christ and the societie of his Saints without allowance or approbation from God to whom I owe my selfe wholly Your long Catalogue of corruptions to be found in our Liturgie is to small purpose unlesse you could prove some of them to be fundamentall hereticall and really idolatrous which you can never doe or that by communicating in the ordinances of grace we doe t Be the abuses never so palpable if the person be not authorized of God to reforme them or separate it is not Just or lawfull for private persons to attempt them For when Malefactors deserve to die it is not for private men to put them to death without the Magistrate Bilson Christ subject part 3. pa. 97. David committed adultery Salomon erected idolatry both offences being death by Gods law might the people therefore have David and Salomon to death approve such corruptions and then be they one or many great or small wee must not communicate in the ordinances with them Which if any man shall lightly beleeve he may know from whom but not whither to flie For there will be found no societie in the whole world whereunto a Christian might lawfully joyne himselfe and yours much lesse than many others You tell us very confidently that as zealous and judicious Nonconformists as ever held that cause affirme that a man cannot without sinne communicate in that worship where the Ceremonies are used But whether should a man admire more your impudency or vaine confidence herein Must not he mistrust you in every thing that shall consider how notoriously you lavish in this particular Is it not contrary to their profession protestation and practice Doe they not usually frequent the Congregations have they not written in maintenance and defence thereof who have cryed downe by conference preaching writing the neglect of Gods ordinances or the practice of separation more than they And yet you blush not to write that our Assumption is assented unto by as judicious and zealous Nonconformists as ever held that cause and they have brought good reasons for it First You quote Mr u Parker lib. 1. pag. 20 21. Parker That men must flie from Idols and Idolothites but men when they come to worship God in societies where the Ceremonies are used they doe not flie from Idols but draw neere unto them But if a man should have sought out a place of purpose to manifest your fraudulent and unconscionable alledging of mens words and sayings he could scarce have found a second more pregnant The whole passage in Mr Parker to which you send us I will set downe at large because it serves to cleere the matter in many particulars and all men may take the better notice of your fidelitie There is an Idoll more strictly taken saith he and an Idoll of larger sence which will include the Crosse For the better understanding whereof wee must borrow a distinction from the w Tho. Aqui. com in Epist ad Coloss c. 1. sect 4. Schoolmen by which a thing may be guilty of Idolatry Essentialiter participative and causaliter which our doctrine at * Hom. of Idolat par 1. pag. 4 5. home doth backe that is confirmed by act of Parliament affirming that to be an Idoll in Gods service which hath beene or is like to be worshipped What is worshipped by our selves that is an Idoll essentially what hath been worshipped or is now worshipped abroad by others that is an Idoll by participation what is likely to be worshipped that is an x August vet Testam qu. lib. 7. qu. 41. Idoll causing Idolatry in time to come In which sense Gideons Ephod may be termed an Idoll quedam modo and that it may be even before it was adored And hereby are many objections answered Our y Rainold de Idol lib. 2. â—ap 2. sect 2. Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 321. Call you the Image of Christ an Idoll not unlesse it be worshipped but if it be then it is an Idoll and incense burnt unto it is Idolatrie Writers deny an Image in the Church say some to be an Idoll in case it be not worshipped True an Idoll essentially but as many of them as desire to have Images thrust out of the Church of which sort there be a great number they hold them guilty of Idolatry by participation and by occasioning or els why will they thrust them out A second objection is wont to be made If the signe of the Crosse be an Idol with us then must men separate from our Church and from
this the Norâ—â—â—formists doe both teach and practice and therefore they have humbly sued for reformation but never either practised or approved your separation That which you cite out of the Harmony of confessions as if the reformed Churches did allow or teach what you practice I will set downe and leave it to every man to judge of your fidelitie The Church k Gallic confest art 26. None but Princes can give freedome and protectioÌ„ to these spirituall functions and actions Bilson Christian part 2. pag. 309. Gallican saith thus Credimus igitur nemiâ—â—â— licerâ— sese catibus subducerâ— in seipso aequiescere sed patius 〈◊〉 sâ—â—â—il tuendam conservandam esse Ecclesiae unitatem sese communi institutioni jugo Christi subijciendo ubjcunque Deus verâ—â—n illam disaiplinam Ecclesiastioâ—n constistuerit etiamsi Magistratuum edicta reclament à quo oxdiâ—â— quicubque seipsos seiâ—â—gunt ordinationi Dei resistant Psal 5. 42. Ephes 4.11 Act. 4.19 5.29 Heb. 10.25 And the l Belgic confessart 28. Without the helpe of Princes though the faith and Canons of Christs Church may bee privately professed and observed of such as be willing yet can they not be generally planted or setled in any kingdome nor urged by publique Lawes externall punishments on such as refuse but by their coÌ„sents that beare the sword Bils ibid. pag. 327. Id. part 3. pag. 296. If you will have the assistance of the Magistrates sword to settle the truth and prohibites errour and by wholesome punishments to prevent the disorder of all degrees that authoritie lieth onely in the Prince Belgick thus Credimus qued cum sacer hic caetus congregatio sit corum qui servari debent salus nulla sit extra eam neminem cujuscunque dignitatis aut nominiâ— is fuerit sese ab ea-subducere aut segregari debere ut sua tantuâ— consuâ—tudine contentus solus ac separatim vivat Sed conâ—â—a â—â—â—es as singulos teneri huic caetui se adjungere Ecclesiae unitatem sollicitè conservare seque illius tum doctrinae tum disciplinae subjicere collum denique Christi jugo sponte submittere tanquanâ— communia ejusdem corporis membra adificationi fratrum inservire prout Deus unicuique sua dona fuerit largitus Porro ut haee melius observentur omnium fidelium partes sunt sese juxta Dei verbum ab eis omnibus disjungere qui sunt extra ecclesiam constituti huicque fidelium caetui ac congregationi sese adjungere ubicunque illam Deus constituerit et si id contraria principum vel Magistratuum edicta prohibeant indicta etiam in eos capitis mortis corporcae poenâ qui id fecerint Quicunque igitur à vera illa Ecclesia recedunt aut sese illi aggregare recusant apertè Dei mandato repugnant Thus the Conclusion CHAP. IV. SECT I. ALL true visible Churches gathered and planted according to Gods Word Can. Neces of Separat pag. 173. consisted in their constitution of Saints onely But the Churches of England after Popery were not so constituted For the greatest number of them were prophane people even mockers and contemners of Religion as Atheists Idolaters Sorcerers Blasphemers and all sorts of miscreants and wicked livers Therefore the Churches of England are not true visible Churches There is never a part of this argument they can deny unlesse they will let fall their owne principles For the Assumption I make no question but it will passe without exception and none of them will have the face to oppose it considering how generally the thing hath beene affirmed and still is upon all occasions both in word and writing Now that the proposition may appeare as true also I will prove the same first by Scriptures secondly by reason thirdly by the testimonies of the learned ANSVVER IF both parts of this Argument be Nonconformists principles why doe you labour to prove the proposition true more than the assumption If it had been a confessed principle why doe you not fight against them with their own weapons as you pretend to doe throughout your Booke He is very dull that doth not smell somewhat herein But if it so please you The proposition is the Nonconformists and it is not For if this be the meaning thereof That all true Churches should consist of visible Saints not onely in their first gathering planting and constitution but also in their after continuance and propagations the Nonconformists doe acknowledge it for when sinne and wickednesse springeth or groweth in the Church the ordinance of God is violated But if this be the meaning That the societie which consisteth not of Saints onely is not the true Church of Jesus Christ that the Nonconformists utterly deny Also it is one thing to say The m Hieron Prefar lib. 2. in Epist ad Galat. Rursus facilitatis superbiae arguunturs Id. ad princ Marcelle Epitaph Difficile est in maledicâ civitate non aliquaÌ„ sinistri rumoris fabulam contrabere Id. in Praefat. in lib. Dydimini Sp. Sa. Cum Babylone versarer purpuratae meritricis essem colonâ— c. Church is not planted and gathered in all things according to Gods Word another to say it is no Church at all which is not planted and gathered in all things agreeable to the Word of God If then the meaning of the proposition be this That all true Churches planted and gathered according to Gods Word consisted of Saints onely because the ordinance of God is violated and his house polluted 〈◊〉 notorious offenders are received or tolerated the Noâ—conformists will acknowledge it But if you understand it thus That it is no true Church at all which consisteth not of Saints onely because it is not gathered planted constituted reformed in all things agreeable to the Word of God they never received it If you could not discerne this in their writings you were very blinde and partiall If you did discerne it and yet would passe it over that you might with some colour traduce them as going contrary to their owne principles or beguile others with an aequivocation where was your sincerity The Nonconformists will not deny but some things in the gathering and planting or rather the refining and government of the Church of England was and is done amisse not agreeable to the Word of God which they heartily desire and labour might be reformed but for things done amisse they dare not condemne the Church deny the grace of God separate from her communion or approve them that doe it It may be questioned also whether you dare not put a tricke upon your Reader in the phrase gathered and planted as if a church in continuance might consist of such as are not Saintâ— but if it be not gathered of such onely at the first it is no Church If this be your close intendment the proposition is farre from truth the minde of the Nonconformists and the matter in hand for in the reformation a new
Church was not planted but a corrupt Church refined or purified And thus I might passe over that which followeth in your next Section because every man may easily perceive it reacheth not to the point in hand but that you should not complaine as if your reasons were neglected I will follow you therein SECT II. IF we take a strict view of all the Churches which the Lord hath constituted since the beginning of the world Can. Neces of Separat pag 174. it will appeare that at the orderly gathering and planting the members of them were all holy and good I here intend of visible and externall holinesse and so farre as meâ— may judge and not of that which is within and hid from us For I doubt not but in Gods sight the purest Congregation on earth might consist at first of good and bad and yet of men every person to be judged truely faithfull and sanctified untill any one by his iniquitie outwardly committed appeared otherwise Not to speak of the Church of the Angels Dr. Feild of the Church p. 3 4. c. 2 Pet. 2.4 Iude 6. Eccl. 7.29 which God created in heaven and were all good and holy till some by transgression fell away Neither of it in Paradise consisting of two persons and both true beleevers After the fall the constitution of the first Church in the covenant of grace was of good matters and such was the Lorde care to have the puritie of it still preserved that he thâ—â—â—st out Cain from the same for the great wickednesse which he fell into The Lord gave not Circumcision to Abraham Gen. 12.1 17. Rom. 4.11.10.15.19 2 Pet. 1.4 Psal 45.11 Revel 18.4 2 Cor. 6. the seale of the righteousinesse of faith untill he left his Fathers house and that idolatrous place wherein he had lived which signifieth to us that all men must necessarily come out of the world and from worldly corruptions or else they are uncapable to have a Church covenant in Christ confirmed unto them of Cod. As for the visible Churches planted by the Apostles it is evident that in their collection they consisted of such and none other as were called by the Gospell confessed their sinnes beleeved walked in the spirit and separated themselves from the false state in which they stood members before Such a beginning had the Congregations in Rome Corinth Galatia Ephesus Philippi Colosse Thessalonica c. And who dares affirme that there was one man or woman admitted a member at the constitution of any of these churches which had been known to be an ill liver and did not first manifest sound repentance thereof ANSVVER VVHen you speake of visible Churches and visible and externall holinesse so farre as men can judge it is to small purpose to mention the Church of Angels in heaven For the Church whereof you intreat is a societie of men holy in profession and outward conformitie but not evermore in truth whereas the societie of Angels if it be comprehended under the Church is invisible and perfectly holy I speake of them as they were by creation and of as many as stood in their integritie who onely are to be understood by that title It is to as little purpose to speake of the Church in Paradise in the state of innocency For the Church understood in this prâ—sent businesse consists of men considered in the estate which they now have promised by God being made man or man fallen by sinne and restored by Christ who tooâ—e them by the hand and lifted them up That is properly the Church which was gathered after man fallen and is restored in Christ which as it is visible consisteth of good and bad as you say But the Church in the state of innocency consisted of such onely as were created of God perfectly holy as befitted such creatures untill by transgression they fell from their integritie The state of the Church which we must enquire into is that which God hath gathered planted constituted preserved continued and propagated since the fall of man After the Fall God entred into Covenant with our first Parents Adam and Eve who received the promise and were partakers of the good things promised Their seed also was within the Covenant untill they did discommon themselves and so Cain and Abel as members of the visible Church offered Sacrifice In phrase of Scripture therefore Cain was a Saint in profession but whether he had given testimony of sound and true holinesse so farre as man could judge is more than can be proved 1 Ioh. 3.12 Iude 11 verse The Scripture saith plainly He was of that wicked one and therefore slew his brother And if no man suddenly become desperately wicked it is probable Cain had given no great fignes of pietie in former times Afterwards many and great corruptions came into the Church when the sonnes of God tooke unto them wives of the daughters of men Gen. 6.2 See Rivet in Gen. exercitat 50. whom they would and it is strange to imagine all the members of the visible Church in those times to be visible Saints in conformitie Gen. 9.24 25. so farre as man can judge The Church of God continued in the family of Noah wherof Cham remained a member after the sentence denounced against Canaan In this Church therefore all visible members were not visible Saints so farre as man can judge Gen 10.1 2 c. The world after the Deluge was replenished by the sonnes of Noah and the Church of God was conserved in their families perhaps in the family of Cham and Canaan his youngest sonne at least for a time â— Gen. 14.18 Heb. 7.6 For it is probable that Melchizedeâ— King of Salem was some King of Canaan in stock diver from the Hebiâ—wes of the posteritie of Cannan who planted in those parts whom God did preserve in the midst of an ungodly people And the promise of God made to the posteritie of Shâ—â— and so of Abraham did not exclude all other familieâ— from communion of pietie and godlinesse o Jun annot in Gen. 14.18 Calvin in loc Mercer in loc Nulla prorsus ratione nituntur qui Semil cum Melchilsedeco confundunt probabilissinum est id à Iudaeis fuisse exâ—â—gitatum quia non aequo animo ferebant hominem alienigenam autori gentis suae aliqua in re fuisse praelatuÌ„ Rivet in Gen. exercit 77. 〈…〉 Gen. 10.16 Gen. 14.24 v. 13. Gen. 20.5 9 10.14 15. Apparet autem in responsione Abimelechi non fuisse hominem impium vel oÌ„â— cognitione Dei destitutum Nam Deum loquentem agnoscit c. Rivet in Gen. exercit 100 101. See Psal 18.21.25 2 Sam. 22.21 Psal 73.13 Rom. 4.11 Gen. 17.12 13.23 Rivet in Gen. 17. Chamier panstrat tom 4. lib 5. cap. 11. At that time we may well 〈◊〉 were some others in the Land of Canaan who did 〈◊〉 wouâ—d worship the 〈◊〉 Goth. For not 〈◊〉 mention Aâ—er Eskel and 〈…〉 with Abrahâ—â— at that
time a 〈◊〉 in the Laâ—â—d with whom they 〈◊〉 not have 〈◊〉 covenant it is probable if they had beene grosse Idolaters without all knownledge of the true religion 〈◊〉 King of 〈…〉 his fault carried himself 〈…〉 businesse of Abraham as a man not altogether destitute of the true stare of God That the true Religion was maintained in the family of Shâ—â— is acknowledged by all sorts but in that family it was greatly corrupted for the Scripture testifieth that 〈◊〉 the father of Abraham and the father of Nachor and Abraham himself before his calling served other Gods Jâ—sh 24.2 The Church of God did spread in the family of Abraham to whom God gave Circumcision as the seale of the righteousnesse of faith but the members thereof were as well they that were bought with his money as they that were borne in his house For so we reade that God commanded and Abraham tooke Ismael his sonne and all that were borne in his house and all that were bought with his money that is every man childe among the men of Abrahams house and he circumcised the foreskin of their flesh Not onely Abraham and his seede but all that lawfully appertained unto him and were in his power did partake of the seale of the covenant as such as formerly had been or now were received into covenant And by analogie we may gather that not onely the children of beleeving parents but of Infidels if they come lawfully into the power and hand of Christians to be trained and brought up by them in the Christian faith ought to be admitted into Baptisme Now in what sense Ismael and some others in Abrahams family might be esteemed holy 〈◊〉 others judge Esau was a member of Isaacs family which was the visible Church of God in those times Gen. 25.31 32 33. Heb. 12.19 after that he had sold sold his birth right for a â—esse of pottage and many other wayes had discovered himselfe so to walke as a man could hardly judge him to be truely holy Gen. 35.22 49.3 4 5 6 7. 34.25 38.25 26. The family of Jacob was received into covenant according to the pleasure and dispensation of God and all his sonnes were members of the visible Church when foule offences were amongst them unrepented of Gen. â—7 2 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 detrâ—â—â— eos crimine malo Not to mention the facts of Ruben Simon and Levi and Jâ—dah it is noted of the sonnes of Zilpah and â—ilkah that they runne into slander whereof we cannot thinke they repeated suddenly Joseph his Brethren conceived such hatred against him that they first conspired to kill him but changing their minds therein they sold him unto the Isâ—elites The whole body of Israel was a peculiar people Lev. 20.24 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of whom every one was by the word of God separated into the covenant of mercy and if the whole Nation was the people of God every particular person in that Nation did stand under the same relation But what the state and condition of that people was when they were admitted into Church covenant wee may learne from the holy Scripture When I passed by thee I saw thee polluted in thine owne bloud Ezek. 16.6.8 and I said unto thee when thou wast in thy bloud Thou shalt live even when thou wast in thy bloud I said unto thee Thou shalt live Now when I passed by thee and looked upon thee behold thy time was as the time of love and I spread my skirts over thee and covered thy filthinesse yea I sware unto thee and entred into covenant with thee 1 Reg. 8.53 Sept. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 saith the Lord God and thou beâ—amest 〈◊〉 When God brought Israel out of Aegypt by the hand of Moses his servant he separated them to himselfe from among all the people of the earth Act. 7.38 for an inheritance and every singular person in that huge multitude was a visible member of that Church Exod. 32.8 9.22 Deut. 4.3 9.7 8. Psal 106.7.13 14.19 2â— 28 Num. 14.22 Act. 7.39 40 41 42. Amos. 5.25 26. Josh 5.7 8 9. Deut. 29.4 and all of them by profession Saints or holy the flock of God But oftentimes they sinned and rebelled against the Lord being a stubborne and stiffe-necked people uncircumcised in heart unbeleeving forgetfull of Gods workes despising his covenant idolatrous which had neither eyes to see nor eares to heare nor an heart to under stand And what probabilitie is there that this whole people was truely holy in the judgement of charitie or so faâ—re as man can judge or that they ceased to be the Church of God when they had grossely corrupted their wayes If the true Church be gathered of Saines onely externally and so 〈◊〉 as man 〈◊〉 judge and of them alone framed at of the subject 〈◊〉 which is onely true whilest it 〈…〉 such and false when it degenerateâ— from this dispositionâ— and so as 〈◊〉 and pâ—â—trified stuffe to 〈◊〉 cast out of the 〈◊〉 let it be considered how the Congregation in the Wildernesse could be the true Church of God which so oft 〈◊〉 Act. 7.38 and in many particular sinned against the Lord. It is more true Exod. 24.3.7 the Church and every member thereof outred into Covenant either expresly or implicitely to take God for their God and to keepe the words of the Covenant and doe them to seeke the Lord with all their hearts and to walke before him in truth and uprightnesse Deut. 29.4 But Moses saith of them that entred into Covenant that they had not eyes to see nor eares to heare nor an heart to understand and with many of them God was displeased because they obeyed not his vâ—â—yâ—e Deut. 29.10 11 12. Yee stard this day all of you saith Moses before the Lord your God your Captaines of Tribes your Elâ—â—ers and your Officers with all the men of Israell your little ones your â—ives and thy stranger that is in thy Caâ—p from the 〈◊〉 of thy woâ—d to the 〈◊〉 of thy water That thou should 〈◊〉 â—nto the Covetant 〈◊〉 the Lord thy God c. But he testifieth against them also Deut. 32.5 6.15 16. that they had corrupted themselves that their spot was not the spot of his children that they were a froward and perverse generation a foolish people and â—â—wisâ— who forsoâ—ke God that 〈◊〉 them and regarded not the strong God of their salvation Iosh 5.5 6 7. Joshua circumcised all the people which were borne in the Wildernesse for all that time that Sacrament was neglected and his fact is approved But we reade not of any inquiry that was made of all that great multitude what worke of grace God had wrought in every mans soule and it is very improbable that there was not one who did not give good hope of sound and true cleaving unto the Lord with all his heart Psal 78.55 56 57. When God had
Apostolici item cogniti◠decem praeceptorum c. Symboll which Cyprian expoundeth there is added The resurrection of this flesh because of the Originists who professed we should rise againe not with these but with other bodies For things to be beleeved this was the acknowledgement which the Church required of them that were to be received into the Congregation of Christs flocke And for the practicall part or things to be done shee required of them an t Clement constit lib. 8. ca. 32. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 abrenunciation of the Devill the world and the flesh with all their sinfull workes and lusts which being solemnly-done they were then baptised into this faith The meanes whereby men were brought to the knowledge of Christ were divers Some were wonne by the preaching of the Word others by private teaching conference admonition the constancy of the Saints in suffering and the fame and report of the great things which the Lord was pleased to worke by his people as Rahab was converted by the fame of the great things which the Lord had wrought for Israell Thus the Countrey of the u Secrat hist lib. 1. cap. 16. lat Gr. cap. 20. Theodor. lib. 1. cap. 24. Sozom. hist lib. 2. cap. 6. Sozom. hist lib. 1. cap. 7. Iberians was converted by a captive woman who after shee had instructed the King and the Queene they both became Teachers of the Gospell to the people Theridates is reported to be called to the Christian Religion by a w Sozom. li. 1. c. 7. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. wonderfull and divine vision which appeared about his house and by his Edict he commanded all his Subjects that they should addict themselves to the faith of Christ The Persians were brought to the faith by the conference which they had with the Oswenians and Armenians Origen when yet he was not allowed for a Minister by the Church did by the blessing of God turne many to the faith who gave testimony thereunto by the losse of their lives He preached also publikely by the consent of the Church-Governours when he was not made Minister which x Euseb hist lib. 6. cap. 4. Alexander Bishop of Hierusalem and Theoctistus Bishop of Cesarea defend against Demetrius by the like examples of Eusebius Paulinus and Theodorus and as they adde it is likely the same was done in other places y Euseb hist lib. 6. ca. 20. Gr. 3. lat See Whitaker advers Staplet Duplic lib. 1. cap. 7. pag. 100. ca 9. pag. 139 ca. 11 pag. 176 177. Fulk answ to the Rh in Rom. 10 15. Wotton tryall of the Church See Socrat hist l. 5. cap. 10. Theodor. l. 5 ca. 16. Socrat. hist lib. 1. ca. 15. lat ca. 19. Gr. Hence we may perceive whom the Church both in the first planting and reforming of Religion judged to be Saints who were to be received into societie wherein we are further to note If ought were done amisse in this or that particular circumstance it did not nullifie the worke or reformation Now to apply this to the state of the Brittish Churches both in their first plantation continuance after and that reformation which was made by King Edward first and after by Queen Elizabeth and so is continued Some z Camden Britan. pag. 47. edit Lond. An. 1607. Fr. Godwin de conv Britan ca. 3. pag. 23. Vsser de prim Eccl. Brit. ca. 1. Gildas learned men are of opinion that the Druides did instruct the Britaines in the knowledge and worship of one God but it is more probable they lay drowned in the dayes of ignorance as other Nations in the most miserable and fearfull idolatry of serving and worshipping many and strange gods But when the light of the Gospel began to shine unto the world of the Gentiles it pleased God of his free and boundlesse mercy and compassion to looke upon this a Origen in Ezek. Hom. 4. Hieron ad Heliodor ep 3. Gildas Vsser de prim cap. 16. pag. 740. Theodor. lib. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Euseb hist l. 2. ca. 2 3. Vsser de prim ca. 2. pag. 20. ca. 16. pag. 740 741. viz. Vsser de prim Eccl. Britan. ca. 1 2 3. Iland and to send unto us the word of reconciliation which was received brought forth fruit grew and encreased untill at length it filled the Land Which of the Apostles first preached the Gospell among us is uncertaine but that from the springing forth of the light the faith of Christ was received is a thing generally acknowledged Of the yeare when King Lucius received the faith of Christ and was baptized there is great diversitie among Historians but in the thing it selfe they all b Ep. eleuther ad Lutium inter léges Edward cap. 17. Euseb hist l. 4. c. 7. Lat. 5. Gr. Ruffin Eccl. hist l. 4. cap. 8. Gildas Bedae hist l. 7. c. 4. Orig. in Ezek hom 4. in Luc. cap. 1. hom 6. Tertul. lib. advers Iudae ca. 7. Gildas scriptor antiquissimus Reges Dei vicarij Vsser de prim ca. 6. p. 104. cap 7. pag. 143 144 c. agree in the times of Hadrian and Antoninus Emperours the Christian faith received mighty encrease as in the rest of the world so in Brittaine and amongst some remained intire and undefiled untill the persecution of Dioclesian which persecution burned furiously for the space of ten yeares in many Provinces but in Britaine it continued onely one yeare For Constantius Chlorus being declared Augustus c Euseb de vita Constan l. 1 c. 12. 9. restored peace to Christians in the Province of his Dominions scil Spaine France and Britaine After the death of Constantius d Euseb hist lib. 8. c. 29. Gr. Ruffin 29 Sozom. l. 1. c. 6. Constantine his Son borne in England and present with his Father at Yorke when he dyed was made Emperour in whose time and reigne persecution ceased peace was generally given to the Church e Euseb hist. lib. 10. ca. 2. lib 40. cap. 5. f. Temples built which before had been made equall with the ground and the profession of Christian faith restored Under Constantine two great Councells were called The first at f Tom. 1. Concil Gall. edit Paris An. 1629. Arles in France An. 314. to take knowledge of the cause of the Donatists where were present out of our Britaine Eborius Bishop of Yorke Euseb de vita Cōstant lib. 3. ca. 18. Socrat. l. 1. cap. 6. lib. 5. cap. 21. Theodor. l. 1. ca. 10. Restitutus Bishop of London Adelphius Bishop of Colchester and Arminius Diaconus Presbyter The second was the Nicene Councell in Bythinia An. 325 against Arius where the Britaines also were assembled And though in the Councell of Ariminum in Italy under Constantius where Bishops out of Britaine were assembled with others it was concluded for Arius yet Britaine was preserved safe from the
Arian infection both in the reignes of Constantius and Julian the Apostata Athanas Graecolar tom 1. pag. 309. edit Comelit Theodor. hist l. 4. c. 3. Pelagius a Britaine by birth troubled the Churches with his pestilent Doctrine denying the grace of God attributing power and libertie to man to live without sinne and keepe the Commandements if he would This Heresie arose about the yeare 405. or 406. and the Author thereof drew his first breath in Britaine Prudent 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Trim. 13. speaking of Cyprian saith Gallos fovet imbuit Britannos praesidet Hisperiae Christum serit ultimis Hiberis Vsser de prim Eccles Britan. ca. 16. pag. 787. but he sowed not this hereticall doctrine in Britaine And though it must be confessed That these Churches were not altogether free from that infection yet at first it was opposed and after it was banished by the blessing of God About the yeare 420. flourished Fastidius of whom Gennedius in his catalogue of Ecclesiasticall Writers saith Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines wrote to Fatalis one booke of Christian life and another of keeping Widdow-hood in sound doctrine and according to the truth of God And John Trithemius Fastidius Bishop of the Britaines was a man learned in the holy Scriptures and an excellent Preacher of the word of God famous in life and conversation in speech and wit notable Prosper contra collater cap. 41. Vsser de prim pag. 319 320 323 324. He wrote some devout little works c. And by the vigilancy and care of Lopis and Germanus Antisiodorensis the Britaines were delivered from the contagion which had begun to infect the Churches After this the face of things was miserable in that Kingdome by reason of the invasion of the g Repellūt nos barbari ad mare repellit mare ad barbaros Inter haec duo genera funerū aut jugulamur autmergimur Bed hist eccl l. 1. cap. 14. Bilson The true difference betweene Christians Par. 1. pa. 56. That this Land was infected with Arianisme Pelagianisme as many other places then were I find it reported in the story of Beda Eccl. his gent. Angl. l. 1. c. 8. lib. 1. cap. 17. And the Bishops of France our neighbours upon request made unto them by the Britaines sent Germanus and Lupus two French Bishops chosen in a Synod by the generall liking to convert this realm from Pelagius errour which also they did with great celeritie barbarous enemy the terrible famine the direfull contagion of the Pelagian and Arian heresies and the loosenesse negligence drunkennesse contentions and other vices of the Clergie The Christian Religion thus corrupted was restored againe by the second comming of Germannus but after that grievously oppressed by the comming in of the Anglo-Saxons who could not yet so extinguish the truth of God but it did revive spread and grow though sometimes more pure sometimes more corrupt and sometimes with greater sometimes with lesse freedome But to come to the last reformation which was made of Religion in this Land and it was not the conversion of England from infidelitie to the profession of the Gospell but the restoring of it from a corrupt state or profession to a more pure from Christianitie polluted to Christianitie unpolluted Christians they were who inhabited this Land baptized into the true faith of Jesus Christ but Christians defiled with manifold superstitions led aside into manifold errors which errors and superstitions removed they become sound and true Christians indeed The true h Chaloner Credo S 2. part sect 2 It will soone appeare that the Ch◠of Rome for a thousand yeares after our Saviour professed no other faith nor published any other beliefe in points fundamentall either negative or affirmative than we doe c. After a thousand and some few yeares more were expired Transubstantiation and Adoration of the Host with other dregs of Antichrist being established though we cannot say that the Church of Rome was from thence forth absolutely our Church yet we may boldly say that our church was from that time untill Luther both within the Romane Church and without it Church lay hid in Popery as a little oare in a great lump of drosse not refined not purified not coyned but true gold for substance yea that very same for substance which being purified and stamped is currant coyne When the invocation of Saints worshipping of Images the Latine Service and fabulous Legends the sacrifice of the Masse and adoration of the Sacrament with such like abhominations were taken away and in the roome thereof the true worship of one true God in the mediation of Jesus Christ and the right administration of the Sacraments and the reading of the holy Scriptures in a knowne tongue established when the omnipotency of the Pope is abandoned with all corrupt superstitions which did undermine the foundation it selfe and in stead thereof the intire faith of the Lord Jesus in all points necessary to salvation taught professed and received then is the Church refined and separated from that drosse To bring Infidells from the state of infidelitie to the faith it is necessary that instruction goe before either by reading exhortation preaching or report of Christian faith for faith commeth by hearing But where men professe Christianitie abuses may be reformed by the Edict of the Magigrate without such particular instruction going before as in the former case is requisite Many times * Jo. 2.19 heresie departeth from the Church or Heretickes goe out from the Church and sometimes the Church is compelled to goe out from heresie the heresie still remaining * Revel 18.4 Come out of her my people saith the Lord the godly then departing from Babylon according to Gods commandement gathering themselves into Christian societies the religious Magistrate by his Edict or Proclamation going before them are the true churches of Christ The i Raynold orat epist ad fratrem Non semper heresis exit ab ecclesia aliquando manet heresis ecclesia exire cogitur Papacy was not the church but the church lay hid in the Papacy untill the time of separation which being made according to Gods commandement by the authoritie of the Lords Vicegerent the church which was before k August epist 48. ad Vincent Donatist Ecclesia est quae aliquando obscuratur tanquam obnubilatur multitudine scandalorum obscured doth now shine forth Thus our Divines doe soundly and truely answer to the Papists demanding where our Church was before Luther That it was where now it is but unrefined unstamped that it lay l Beza epist 1. ad Duditium et si Papatun non sit Ecclesia voluit Deus in Papatu servare ecclesiam hid among them for the time as some fit stones for the building under a great heap of rubbish and that we have not erected a new Church but repaired and restored a ruinous m See Dr. Feild of the Church lib. 3. c.
Gospell Now we read that it was built from the very foundation â—f costly stones of Cedars Algum Firre and the like choice and speciall trees and those all prepared aforehand hewed and perfect for the building so that neither hammer nor axe nor any toole was to be hea din the house in the building of it no common or vile thing was used towards it neither might any polluted person enter it and offer untill he had repented and embraced the faith 2 Chron. 23.19 Levit. 22.19 27.11 and beene cleansed from his filthinesse By the gates of the house were Porters set to keepe the unworthy out Vpon the Altar there might be offered no uncleane beast no nor that which was cleane having a blemish upon it What in all this was signified Onely this Such as will build a spirituall house for the Lord to dwell in must be an holy people for he is of that infinite puritie that he will not vouchsafe his speciall presence unto prophane companies which joyne themselves together and therefore let it be far from all men to prepare a place for him with such trash or to defile his holy things with such uncleane persons or to offend his nostrills with the stinke of such sacrifices ANSVVER IF this reason be ought worth not only such as would build a spirituall house to the Lord for his Majestie to dwell in but such as would preserve it being built must be an holy people holy in truth and not onely in the judgement of charitie for he is an holy God who will not be worshipped of the hypocrite or prophane will not take the wicked dissembler by the hand will not heare the prayers of them that with delight looke unto iniquitie If the Temple was built from the very foundation with costly stone hewen and prepared after it was built it must be kept from all pollution And then if the Temple was a type of the visible Church in such sense as this reason affirmeth it must be gathered of a people truely holy and separated from the world and onely of such so that if any hypocrite shall craftily creep into it or any wicked person be tolerated afterwards it must cease to be a Church August de Baptis contr Petilian ca. 14. in Epist 1. Joh. Beda in epist 1 Iob. Glossa ordinar Sic sunt ficti in ecclesia quomodo humores mali in corpore quando evomuÌ„tur releuatur corpus sic qudndo excunt mali relevatur Ecclesia which is directly contrary to the whole current of Scripture and to that which your selfe many times affirme The Temple is thought to be a type of Christ of a Christian of the Church but whether of the true Catholique Church whereof every member is a living stone elect and precious or of the visible congregationall assembly consisting of good and bad sincere and hypocriticall professors it may well be questioned For the visible Church is not built all of costly stones hewen and prepared Therein many persons inwardly polluted doe offer though outwardly they appeare cleane and some may be suffered to offer which inwardly and outwardly appeare to be uncleane And if it was a type of the visible Church it must be considered how farre the signification is to be extended and wherein the resemblance standeth For as it appertaineth to God onely to designe a type so it is peculiar to him alone to expound or notifie the p A dispute par 3. cap. 8. pag. 169. Men may never at their pleasure ascribe to any rite whatsoever a holy signification of some mysterie of faith or dutie of pietie signification of the type wherein it consisteth It is an addition prohibited for us to interpret divine instituted types upon our owne heads without ground and warrant from God The common Rule is good if rightly limited Theologia symbolica non est argumentativa which you had need to study better for here and else-where throughout your bookes you thrust such significations of types used in the old Testament upon your Reader as are not taught in Scripture not for the matter it selfe consonant to the q August contr 2. Gaudent epist l. 2. cap. 25. Did God or man tell it you If God reade it unto us out of the Law the Prophets and Psalmes the Apostolicall or Evangelicall Writings Reade it if you can which hitherto you never could but if men have said it or rather no man but your selfe behold the device of men behold what you worship behold what you serve behold wherfore you rebell you rage you waxe madde Bils Christ. subject pars 3. pag. 22. You promised full proofes out of the Word of God c. and now you come with empty figures of your own applying without truth or coherence Amb. Epist. lib. 5. ep 31. The mystery of Heaven let God himself teach me which made Heaven not man which knew not himselfe whom should I rather beleeve concerning God than God himselfe Scripture and your whole frame of arguing is drawne from similitudes and comparisons which is the most popular but deceitfull and loose kinde of reasoning if they be not rightly drawne and well proportioned Let this particular in hand be for example and let us grant you more than you will defire scil That the Temple was a type of the visible Church and that all the members thereof ought to be holy truly holy and not in appearance onely sincere Christians in the sight of God and in the judgement of charitie alone Saints and faithfull in truth and not onely in profession and conversation in some measure answerable be it that no uncleane thing must be offered upon the altar that no hypocriticall service shall be accepted Hence it will not follow that the societie is no visible Church of God where such are tolerated or that the pure and unfeigned worship of the faithfull shall not be accepted when it is tendered in a societie amongst whom there be some rebellious which hate to be reformed If the Temple be a type of the visible Church as it was built from the very foundation of costly stones what can it signifie in your sense but that the spirituall house of the Lord must consist of them that are truely holy faithfull and called so that they should need neither axe hammer nor any toole so you presse the matter to fit or square And then by your owne confession we are to expect no Church upon the earth if ever there hath beene any For in the visible Church hypocrites are and have been mixed with the faithfull as rubbish or counterfeit with costly stones which could have no place in the Temple * Can. Stay sect 4. pag. 33. Thus I might say to you as you to your Pistoler The man is snared in his owne words and may say with the Poet Heu patior telis vulnera facta meis If the Temple might be a type of the Church this notwithstanding then it shewes onely what the Church
ought to be not what it is of whom it doth consist as prime chiefe principall members partakers of all the Royalties and priviledges thereof and not who are tolerated and suffered there as members in an inferiour degree or as maimes and blemishes And then you must lie under the just imputation of abusing this instance to another purpose not agreeable to the truth Can. Neces of Separat pag. 195. It will not be found that ever wee have denied but many hypocrites may be in the true church yea of open and vile transgressors but here lyeth the point If any man shall affirme that the same may be first gathered of knowne lewd and unconverted men that indeed we deny utterly c. When you are pressed with the examples where wicked and ungodly men were tolerated in the Church and did beare chiefe sway and possessed the greatest places and office in the Church you fly to this that you plead against the first building of a Church of such wicked and ungodly men and here you say He that will build a spirituall house to the Lord and the orderly gathering and planting of the members of them were all holy But if this reason be of any force it concludes for the coÌ„tinuance of the Church as well as the first planting or gathering that the members thereof must be truly holy And if this be not more cunning than beseemeth the sincere handler of Gods Word in a matter of such importance let the indifferent consider SECT III. THe reasons upon which our proposition is grounded are these Neces of Separat pag. 176 177. Psal 50.16 Isa 35.8 Zach. 14.21 Rev. 21. ult first All wicked men are forbidden expresly by the Word of God for medling with his ordinance or covenant Now if men to escape temporall punishment are afraid to transgresse against the Lawes of worldly Princes much more fearefull should they be to breake his who is the King of Kings and will inflict for it upon their soules and bodies torments eternally 2. That which destroyeth a Church and makes it either to become a false Church or no Church at all cannot be a true Church or be true matter whereof it is made But men visibly wicked and prophane make the Church a Synagogue of Satan Babylon Sodome Aegypt and so be spied out and removed 3. It is against sense and common reason that a Church should be constituted of unholy people For as in a materiall house the wood and stone must be first prepared and then laid orderly in the building So in the spirituall men and women by the word of God must necessarily be first reformed before they are any way fit to have any place therein 4. They which have no right to the holy things of God in the Church are not to be admitted into it neither is that Church which is so gathered rightly constituted Matth. 7.6 But men of wicked conversation have no right to the holy things of God in the Church And therefore that Church which is gathered of such is not rightly constituted 5. They cannot performe the services and duties of members Eph. 2.1 for they are spiritually dead If a Master will who covenant with one to be his servant which hath in him no naturall life much lesse c. 6. They have not Christ for their head and therefore cannot be of his body For as in the naturall body there must first be a naturall 〈◊〉 of the parts with the head before there can be day action of naturall conjunction Ioh. 15.2.4 Rom. 8. betweene the head and the members and one member and another so in the spirituall body the members must be first united with Christ the head and became one with him before they can any way partake in his benefits Rom. 7.2 Hosâ—a 2.19 20. or have communion one with another as members of the sâ—me body 〈◊〉 him the head 7. They are altogether uncapable of this covenant For as a woman which hath beene once a wife cannot marry againe with another man untill her first husband be deceased or shee from him lawfully divorced So neither can these be married to the 〈◊〉 till they have mortified their corruptions and put the world and Satan away unto which they were before as it were married 8. The godly and wicked are contraries guided and lead by different causes Now true contraries are not capable of one and the same forme ANSVVER THe best way to be secure from the force of your darts is to run unto the marke For here we have reasons numbred up which have weight in them for some purpose some of them at the least but direct them to your marke and they recoyle backe upon your selfe When you have reckoned up first second and third c. the conclusion is ever wanting and not so much as one premise which lookes to the right conclusion to be confirmed The thing to be proved is this that it is no true Church of God which is not planted gathered or built of Saints onely but that consequence will never follow from those premisses For every thing in those Reasons must as well be applied to the continuance of the church as to the first gathering and planting of it The wicked are expresly forbidden to meddle with the covenant or ordinances of God men visibly wicked make the church a Synagogue of Satan Men must be hewen and reformed before they are fit to have any place in the Church of God Men of wicked conversation have no right to the holy things of God Bilson perpet govern ca. 10. p. 147. With open reproving by the Word excluding from the SacrameÌ„ts such as notoriously sinned Pastours and Prophets might intermeddle the people might not It was no part of their charge but in banishing of malefactors from all fellowship and company both civill sacred with the faithfull Pastours were to direct the people to assist and execute that judgement The Apostles doe not leave it to the peoples liking as a matter indifferet till they have coÌ„sented but enjoyneth it as a necessary duty and coÌ„maÌ„deth them in the nameÌ„ of Christ Iesus to withdraw themselves from every brother that walketh inordinately c. Where there wanteth à beleeving Magistrate the Pastour shall not doe wisely to proceed to any such rigour against wilfull and obstinate sinners without the knowledge and consent of the people Euseb hist lib. 6. cap. 34. Theodoret. lib. 5. cap. 17. Bilson Christian subject part 3. pag. 81 82 83 86. The Question is not whether Bishops shall receive Kings with open and obstinate vices to the Lords Table but whether they shall chase them from their Kingdomes or no we mislike not repentance in Princes but resistance in subjects c. But marke what care Augustine will have observed how and when discipline should be administred They cannot performe the duties of members they have nor Christ for their head they are uncapable of the covenant
c. Is any thing here spoken peculiar to the members of the Church at the first planting thereof which doth not hold true of the members of the Church established and confirmed Are not the wicked at all times forbidden to meddle with the ordinances of God uncapable of the covenant spiritually dead not fit to have place in the house of God And if this hold true against such members of the Church at all times why doe you beare the Reader in hand That you onely plead against the first building of a Church of such wiâ—â—ed and ungodly persons * Can. Neces of Separat pag. 194 195. The Question you say hath ever been about the true and naturall members whereof Gods Church is orderly gathered and planted and not about the degenerate and decayed estate thereof But if any of these Reasons will conclude ought there was never societie to be esteemed the true church of God all whose members were not Saints and holy spiritually enlived fit to performe the duties of members fitted prepared and laid orderly in the building married to the Lord Christ What you hold that is not materiall in this point but what your Arguments conclude for if they inferre one thing and you maintaine another of necessitie they are weake or you are crosse to your selfe or both * Can. Neces of Separat pag. 195. If they shall say thus you write that obstinate and incorrigible sinners may lawfully be suffered therein This we affirme to be untrue But if they say that in a true visible Church there may be great evills committed you and along time tolerated we assent unto it Howbeit it is certaine as Dr. Ames faith This forbearance is a grievous sinne before God Of the lawfull toleration of obstinate and incorrigible persons we have no controversie with you But if any one reason here be brought by you to the purpose it cannot be the true Church of God where any one obstinate knowne offender is suffered or which hath not right to the holy things of God That the members of the Church ought to walke in holinesse you need not prove but that the Congregation cannot be the true Church of God where such things are suffered as ought not to be And yet your Reasons goe higher than so For if they be duely examined whether doe they speake of such as be truly holy or onely visibly holy Saints and faithfull in the fight of God or onely in the eyes and approbation of men Onely the Saints are capable of the Covenant spiritually alive unto God married unto Jesus Christ and have communion with him onely they are hewen fitly prepared and layd truely upon the spirituall foundation onely their service is accepted of God in Jesus Christ It is nothing here to answer the members of the Church are such in the judgement of charitie For in the degenerate state the Church doth not ever consist of such as you confesse and your reasons here speake of them that be such indeed in the judgement of truth quickned by the Spirit acceptable to God Saints by Covenant the living members of Jesus Christ and so heires of salvation And if we looke into this matter more narrowly the conclusion fighteth with the premisses and doth manifestly overturne what you would build Psal 50.16 Moller in Psal 50.16 The wicked are expresly forbidden to meddle with the Covenant But those wicked ones to whom the Lord speaketh at that time more visible members of the true Church The wicked make the Church of God you say a Synagogue of Satan Sodome c. And doth not the Prophet call them Princes of Sodome Isa 1.10 and people of Gomorrah who were the people of God by covenant members of the true Church Doe they provoke God to spew them out of his mouth or to remove his Candlesticke But untill he remove his Candlesticke or spew them out of his mouth they continue his Church and people Ezek. 16.45 46 47 c. Rebellious Judah justified her Sisters Sodome and Samaria and yet shee continued the Church of God when they were cast off A tree unhewen and unprepared is unfit matter for an house and so are tares blasted corne and dry eares to grow together in the field with good corne as wheat c. But the house ceaseth not to be an house though a piece of timber unprepared be put into it or the corne field to be a field of corne because the tares are suffered to abide untill the harvest A dead man cannot perform the office of a living member but instrumentally he may doe the office of a member or he may be an instrument which the head is pleased to use for the good of the body otherwise no hypocrite who is spiritually dead could be any means of good unto the societie No wicked man is spiritually married unto Christ nor hypocrite but hypocrites and wicked men may be members of the societie which in respect of externall covenant is married unto Christ or else the Church of the Jewes was not beloved of him The godly and wicked are lead by different causes and so are hypocrites and sincere Christians but they may be linked together in the same outward societie Hypocrites you confesse are members of the Church untill they be dissevered and cast out But the upright and the double-hearted are contraries lead by different causes and so uncapable of the same forme to use your phrases SECT IV. FOr this we have the judgement of the learned also Can. Neces of Separat pag. 178. In Psal 15. There must be saith Mollerus a profession of true Religion and obedience yeelded thereto at least outwardly to become a member of the visible Church Beza saith Anno. in Act. 2.40 He is rightly joyned to the Church which separates himselfe from the wicked Paul calls the Romanes Saints saith Aretius to put a difference betweene their former estate wherein they lived In Rom. 1.7 Vol. thes theolog pag. 256. which was unholy and impure and the condition to which they were now called Piscator affirmes the matter of a particular Church to be a company of Beleevers c. ANSVVER YOu may easily bring heapes of testimonies for that which these Authors affirme For I suppose there is not Marke what care S. Augustine will have observed how when discipline should bee used August contr Parmenian lib. 3. ca. 2. If contagion of sin have invaded a multitude the mercifull severitie of correction from God himselfe is necessary Nam concilia separationis inania sunt perniciosa atque sacrilega c. nor ever was godly orthodox Divine of another judgement But that which they say and you maintaine are incompatible Their Assertion is taught in Scripture professed by the godly learned in all ages and is most evident to right reason illuminated by faith But that which you contend for is neither taught in Scripture nor confirmed by reason or professed by godly and learned Authors
maintained Fourthly In the true Church of Christ the true doctrine of Jesus Christ the Prophets and Apostles in matters fundamentall is kept but so as the living members may erre both in doctrine and manners and others in societie with them may erre grossely impenitently finally And thus the Church of England doth keepe the doctrine of w Chaloner Credo Sanct. 2 part subject The church in respect of its outward part as it enters the Creed is not onely an outward profession of a doctrine or discipline but a profession of the same under the notion of truth And that the Church in this sense is invisible Gregory de Valent. confes in his third Tom. upō Thomas disp 1 qu. 1. pag. 7. sect 16. and Bellarm in his third Book de Eccles ca. 15. Bilson Christ subject par 3. pag. 305. The visible Church consisting of good and bad elect reprobate hath no such promise but shee may erre only the chosen of christ which are the true members of his body properly called his Church they shall not erre unto perdition c. Christ the Prophets and Apostles intirely without addition or alteration though in the government and administration there be many things amisse though in the societie there be many who be not qualified as sheepe humble and meeke but fierce and cruell Fifthly No societie is the Church of Christ which retaineth not the true worship of God but in the true Church of God his pure worship may be stained with rites and ceremonies which might well be spared and are justly disliked Thus both Conformists and Nonconformists and all other sorts and sects of men And thus in the Church of England the true worship of God is for substance rightly maintained though the Nonconformists dislike and the Conformists groane under some ceremonies not abandoned The onely knot here to be unloosed againe is your slander against the Nonconformists in that you charge them to say that the Church of England doth not retaine the true worship of God And now I shall desire you calmely to consider how according to your principles you can untie a knot or two if they should be knit for you in this wise First He is no true Pastor of Jesus Christ who grossely perverteth the Scripture falsifieth Authors deceiveth with aequivocations condemneth the true worship of God as pernicious idolatrie and the x Jewell upon the first to the Thes chap. 1. v. 1. The Church of God is in God the Father and in the Lord Iesus Christ it is the company of the faithfull whom God hath gathered together in Christ by his Word and by the holy Ghost to honour him as he himselfe hath appointed This Church heareth the voyce of the Shepheard It will not follow a stranger but flyeth from him Of this Church Hieron in Mic. lib. 1. cap. 1. saith Ecclesia Christi in toto orbe Ecclesias possidens c. societies of Saints as idolatrous and Antichristian Assemblies and laboureth to draw Christians from the communion of Saints which ought to be kept and maintained Examine your writings in the feare of God and adde the proposition wanting Secondly He is no true Minister who derives his authoritie from them that are not able to give it But he that derives his authoritie from the people derives it from them that have no authoritie to give it You know the conclusion and where it will light Thirdly The true Church of God is the true flock of Christ the Kings Daughter quickened by the Spirit married unto Christ gentle meeke humble retaining the true worship of God without addition or alteration and keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace But the societie of Separatists is not the true flocke of Christ quickned by the Spirit humble meeke gentle keeping the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace These properties doe not agree to all and every one in that societie in truth according as in the former propositions you say they belong to the true Church of God If you shall be able to maintaine the former propositions against men as you vaunt I doe not beleeve you shall be able to unloose these few knots CHAP. V. SECT I. IT may be some will expect that I should write something of their Lecturers Can. Neces of Separat pag. 49 50. and the rather because they in the judgement of many are thought to be the best Ministers Of their life and doctrine I say nothing But as for their Ministery surely it is new and strange For the Originall of their name manner of entrance and Administration is unknowne wholly to the Scriptures and I thinke never before heard of till in these latter broken and confused times Therefore it is no marvell when the Question hath beene propounded to some of them as it was by the Pharisees to John Who art thou That they have not been able for their life to answer to answer the point Neither could agree among themselves what kinde of Ministery it is that they have taken up And being hard pressed for resolution they have ingenuously confessed that unlesse they be Evangelists they could not see how their Ministery doth accord with any Ministery mentioned in the New Testament This I write upon my owne certain knowledge the persons I thinke are yet living whose names for some reason I forbeare to expresse Howbeit I can and will doe it if I see there be a just and necessary occasion I doe not thinke it strange that they should thus speake for indeed I know not what they can say better in defence of their standing Pastours I am sure they will not say they are For First They doe not take any particular charge of a flocke upon them Secondly They performe not the office thereof for they agree with the people onely to preach and not to administer either the seales or censures to them Thirdly Their comming unto the people is in a strange sort for they make a covenant each with other for some certaine yeares and when that time is out both parties are free and so may leave one the other and doe many times but a true Pastour may not doe so For if he should he were worse than an hireling which leaves not the sheepe till he see the Wolfe comming But many of these when they see a richer Lectureship comming towards them Fourthly He that is a Parson or Vicar is taken generally for the Minister of the place And truely howsoever their calling be false and Anttchristian as the Nonconformists say yet in many respects they doe better resemble a true Minister than any Lecturer whatsoever Therefore not without just cause Neces of Discipl pag. 74. doe the Reformists utterly condemne this extraordinary office of Preachers And affirme that they are neither Pastours nor Teachers which the Scripture alloweth of ANSVVER THis point concerning Lecturers I have purposely deferred unto this place because it is distinct from the former in your apprehension