Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	church_n	militant_a	triumphant_a	2,791	5	11.4510	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19950	A letter vvritten from Paris, by the Lord Cardinall of Peron, to Monsr. Casaubon in England. Translated out of the French corrected copie, into English.; Lettre de Monseigneur l'illustriss. card. Du Perron. English	Du Perron, Jacques Davy, 1556-1618.; Owen, Thomas, 1557-1618.; Casaubon, Isaac, 1559-1614.	1612 (1612)	STC 6383; ESTC S122259	15,517	56

I sayd the Reall Presence of the body of Christ in the Sacrament not because I thinke not to passe further to affirme the substantiall conuersion of the Sacrament into the body of Christ but it sufficeth for my purpose to say the Reall Presence For it is not precisely and particulerly the Transubstantiation of the Sacrament but the Reall Presence of the body of Christ in the Sacrament on which is grounded the importance of this article and the necessity of it to saluation to wit the Communion and substantiall Vnion to the body of Christ which Saint Cyrill calleth the knot of our Vnion with God Neither is it particulerly and precisely the Transubstantiation but the Reall Presence from whence those two inconueniences do proceed for which your Ministers in this article haue separated themselues from our Communion which are the one the adoration of the body of Christ in the Sacrament whome they would haue to be sought and adored only in heauen and the other is the pretended destruction of the Vnion of the body of Christ by being at one time in many places in the Sacrament I haue sayd nothing of the prerogatiue of the Roman Church which all the ancient Fathers haue held to be the Center and roote of Episcopall Vnitie and Ecclesiasticall communion For that I perswade my self that You are sufficiently conuersant in antiquity to know that the most ancient Fathers Councells and Christian Emperours haue perpetually giuen vnto her the Primacie and supereminent Authority in all Ecclesiasticall matters and such as concerne Religion which is as much as the Church requireth to be confessed as a point of faith by them that do returne to the Vnity therof that so this companie of the Faithfull may be discerned from the Grecians and others of their Sect who some ages since haue separated themselues from the visible and ministerious head of the Church These foure points therfore are the principall fountaines of our dissention if about these we were of accord it would be easy to agree about the rest I say that the Fathers who liued in the time of the foure first Councells haue all of thē held practised as necessary to saluatiō albeit in different degrees of necessity to wit the Reall Presence of the body of Christ the oblatiō of the Sacrifice as a meanes absolutely necessary to the whole body of the Church and conditionally necessary to euery one in particuler Prayer and Oblation for the dead as necessarie necessitate medij to them for whom they are offered to help thē by the prayers and Sacrifices of the Church to deliuer from temporall paines after this life those who hauing sinned after baptisme haue not done sufficient pennance nor fully satisfied the iustice of Allmighty God and they are necessary necessitate praecepti for the exercising of Christian charity piety both to the Church who maketh them and to the Ministers and Pastours by whom she maketh them And Praier to Saintes hath bene practised as necessary to the body of the Church and to the Ministers by whome she maketh them necessary I say necessitate praecepti for the communion and commerce betweene the Triumphant and Militant Church And as for particuler men than haue no office in the Church but vse their priuate deuotions it is not necessary necessitate actus but it is only profitable for the more easie obtaining pardon for their sinnes by making their recourse in praier to them that are allready in perfect and assured possession of the grace and fauour of God but to these and to all other it is necessary necessitate approbationis that is they are bound not to contradict it nor to condemne the vse and doctrine of the Church in this point nor to separate thēselues from the Church for this cause vnder paine of Excommunication and to be held and esteemed for Heretikes Of all which things I do not for the present vndertake the proof least in place of a Letter I should sēd you a booke but I oblige my self to performe it whensouer you shall require it and to shew vnto you both by the vniforme consent of the Fathers who flourished in the time of the foure first Councells and by the formes which they haue left vs in their writings of the ancient seruice of the Catholike Church in their ages vniuersally and vniformely were held belieued and practised through all the Prouinces and Countries of the earth these foure points in the same sense and in the same forme as they are vsed in our Liturgies and common Seruice and not as Obseruations which then had their beginning but as things which the same Fathers affirme to haue bene belieued and practised by all Antiquity and to haue come to them by a neuer-interrupted succession of the tradition or approbation of the Apostles So as no man can renounce the Communion of our Church vnder the pretext and colour of any of these things but they must also renounce the Communiō of the ancient Catholike Church and consequently the inheritance of saluation And this I will doe by authors and testimonies of good ranke and marke as you know I am curious not to vse others and with plaine and cleare answeres to all obiections taken out of the Fathers of those or former ages which thing will be vnto me so much the more easy forsomuch as the proofes which we bring out of the Fathers do containe in expresse tearmes the affirmatiue of what we say whereas on the contrary our Aduersaries shall neuer be able to find one passage which doth in expresse tearmes containe the negatiue but only by such inferences as in an equall and iust Tribunall deserueth not so much as once the hearing For who knoweth not how contrary to reason it is to alleage the consequences of passages and those also ill interpreted and vnderstood in whose inferences doth alwaies lye hidden some Paralogisme and fallacie against the expresse words and the liuelie and actuall practice of the same Fathers out of whom they are taken and that this is a ready way to accuse the Fathers of want of vnderstanding and memory not to take them for iudges and to submit ones selfe to the obseruation of that which they haue belieued and practised To this I will further adde when you shall desire it the present conformitie of all other Patriarchall Churches in these foure poynts with the Church of Rome and of all those which do yet remaine to this day vnder their iurisdiction that is of those that doe remaine vnder the Patriarchall Iurisdiction of the Patriarch of Constantinople as the Grecians Russians Muscouites and Asians of the lesser Asia separated from vs some eight hundred yeares since of those also which are vnder the Patriarch of Antioch as the Syrians Mesopotamians and others that are further East For those that acknowledge the Patriarch of Syria as the Maronites do still perseuere in the Communion of the Church of Rome Of those also which rely and depend of the Patriarch of Alexandria as the naturall Egyptians whome they call Copthes and the Ethiopians deuided from vs and the Grecians more then eleuen hundred yeares agoe euen from the last of the foure first Councells that is from the Councell of Chalcedon these do hold these foure articles and with greater iealousie if it were possible then the Latins do and particulerly that of the Sacrament in which they do not only belieue the Transubstantiation which the Grecians at this day doe call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but do also adore it with externall actions full of much more humility then ours are which is a manifest signe that these foure poynts were vniformely held and obserued by the ancient Catholike Church seeing that all the partes into which the Catholike Church is deuided retayne them to this present day with great vniformity notwithstanding the distance separation and diuision of them through all Nations of the earth Behould heere in generall the causes which moued me in my Letter to vse that exception obiected vnto me in yours which if his Maiesty of Great-Brittaine had as well the leasure to consider in particuler as he hath capacitie to comprehend them I assure my selfe he would not thinke it strange that I should wish him the Title of Catholike but would also wish and desire it himself and put himselfe in state to obtayne it both to himselfe and his I meane he would to his other Crownes adde also this that he would become a Mediatour for the reconciliatiō of the Church which would be vnto him a more triumphant Glory then that of all Alexanders and Cesars and it would obtaine no lesse honour to his Iland to haue bene the place of his birth then to haue brought forth the Great Constantine the first deliuerer and pacifier of the Church of Christ I beseech the infinite goodnes of God that he would vouchsafe one day to increase with this the other graces which he hath giuen him and to graunt in this behalfe the prayers of the happy deceased Queene his Mother whose not only teares as did those of S. Augustines Mother but also her bloud doth make intercession and cry vnto heauen for him and allwayes preserue You in health and safety FINIS Cap. 7. Cap. 4. Cap. 10. Cap. 4. epist 152. ad Donat●st lib. de fid ad Pet. Diac cap. 29. Cap. 19. Cap. 33· Cap. 4. Cap. 24. Gen. 26. Isa 2. Matth. 23. Ioan· 3. lib. 3. de an eius orig c. 9. Isa 62.54 Matth. 16.18 1 Tim. 3. de vtilitate cred c. 17. De symb ad Catech. lib. 1. c. 5. Contra 〈…〉 Cap 42 De Bapt. cont Donat lib. 4. c. 6.

the Heretikes belieuing those things of God which are false do violate the fayth and the Schismatiks by vnlawfull diuisions doe separate themselues from brotherly charity although they belieue in all things the same with vs. And for this cause neither doth the Heretike appertaine to the Catholik Church for that she loueth God nor the Schismatike for that she loueth her neighbour And in his Booke de vnitate Ecclesiae All those that belieue as hath bene said that our Lord Iesus Christ is come in flesh risen from death in the same flesh in which he was borne and hath suffered and that he is the Sonne of God with God and one with the Father and the onely immutable Word of the Father by whome all thinges were made but doth yet in such sort dissent from his body which is the Church that their communion is not with all them with whome the Catholike Church doth participate but are in some deuided part it is manifest that they are not in the Catholike Church And Prosper his Disciple saith That he who doth cōmunicate with this Vniuersall Church is a Christian and a Catholike and he that doth not cōmunicate is an Heretike and Antichrist By which we see that the ancient Fathers denyed the Title of Catholike to the Donatists because they separated themselues from the Communion of the Church and graunted it to them from whome the Donatists tooke their doctrine because they remayned in the Vnity of one communion The people vnder S. Cyprian his charge saith Saint Pacianus haue neuer bene called otherwise then Catholike And S. Vincentius Lyrinensis O admirable change of things The Authors of one and the same opinion are esteemed Catholikes and their followers are iudged Heretikes And S. Augustine Your dissention saith he and your diuision maketh you Heretikes their peace and vnity made them Catholikes And when as in the fourth Councell of Carthage this Article was put in the examen of those that were to be made Bishops the same was repeated in the Epistle of the Councell by Saint Augustine who was the Secretary in these words Whosoeuer is deuided from the Catholike Church how laudably soeuer he seeme to liue for this only cryme that he is separated frō the Vnity of the Church he shall be excluded from life and the wrath of God shall remayne vpon him And the same was repeated againe by Fulgentius who saith Hold for most certaine and doubt not in any manner that no Heretike or Schismatike baptized in the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost if he be not vnited to the Catholike Church although he giue neuer so great almes and shed his very bloud for the name of Christ yet can he in no wise be saued Thus sayd these Fathers wholy or principally against the Donatists who notwithstanding agreed with the Catholikes in all articles of the Creed and in holy Scripture You accord with vs sayth S. Augustine in Baptisme and in the Creed and in all other Sacraments of our Lord but in the spirit of Vnity in the place of peace lastly in the Catholike Church you are not with vs. And yet they differed only in one poynt of Tradition not expressely contayned in Scripture And S. Augustine himselfe the chief Conquerour of this Heresy doth confesse that it could not be proued by Scripture This saith he lib. de vnitate Ecclesiae neither you nor I do read in expresse wordes And in his first booke contra Cresconium Although no example of this matter be found in holy Scriptures yet do we follow in this the Truth of the Scriptures when we do that which is agreable to the Vniuersall Church cōmended vnto vs by the authority of the same Scriptures And l. 11. de Bapt. cont Donat. And we our selues saith he should not dare to affirm any thing of this matter if we were not warrāted by the most vniforme Authority of the Church And l. 5. The Apostles haue cōmanded nothing concerning this matter but the custome which was alleadged against S. Cypr. is to be thought to haue descended frō their traditiō as diuers other things haue done which the Vniuersall Church doth obserue and are therfore with great reason belieued to haue bene commaunded by the Apostles although they be not written Whence it followeth that it sufficeth not for the obtaining of the Name Catholike to hould or rather to thinke we do hould the self same beliefe of the ancient Fathers if we do not participate with them in the Vnity and Communion of the same Catholike Church with which the same ancient Fathers did communicate and which by succession of persons and as we further pretend by the succession also of doctrine is descended vnto vs. And if she hath lost any part of her greatnes in our Hemisphere she hath gotten as much or more in the other Hemisphere that is vnder vs that so those ancient Prophesies may be fulfilled In thy seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed And In the last dayes the mountayne of the house of our Lord shal be in the top of mountaines and shal be lifted vp aboue the hilles and all nations shall come vnto it The Ghospell of the Kingdome must be preached through the vniuersall world and then shall follow the end and consummation with other the like sentences of holy Scripture By which as Saint Augustine noteth the Church hath obtayned the Title Marke of Catholike The second obseruation is concerning the restriction to things necessary to saluation For besides those that are necessary to saluation there are two other degrees of things the one of such as are profitable to saluation as according to the iudgment of your Ministers is the selling of all that a man hath and giuing it to the poore Likewise to fast in time of afflictiō to appease the indignation of God to pray for the brethren that are of the same faith with vs to pray to Almighty God for our owne necessities The other degree is of things lawfull not repugnant to saluation as to flie in time of persecution and for such as serue the Altar to be maintained by the Altar to put away the wife that is Adultresse and the like For I alleage these as exāples and not for instances Now for entire conformity with the beliefe of the ancient Fathers it is necessary that we belieue all those things which they belieued euery one according to the degree in which they were held by them that is to belieue those things to be necessary to saluation which they reputed necessarie and those things profitable to saluation which they esteemed so and likewise to belieue those things to be lawfull and not repugnant to saluation which they did hold for lawfull not repugnant and that vnder colour that these two last degrees are not of things necessary to saluation but only profitable or lawfull we should not condemne them

thing ought to be held in all reason for ancient which those whome we do accompt ancient did themselues esteeme to be ancient The fifth obseruation is about the Vnanimity and vniforme consent of the Fathers which some contentious spirits would haue to be vnderstood only when one and the selfe same thing is actually found in the writings of all the Fathers which is a most vniust and impertinent pretension For that any doctrine or obseruation be truly held by the Fathers to be Vniuersall and Catholike it is not needfull that it be found in the writings of all the Fathers when as many of them perhapps neuer treated of those matters and of whose writings some haue perished and neuer come to our hands but there are two other lawfull waies to assure and satisfy vs in this matter The one when the Fathers or greatest eminencie in euery Countrey do agree in the affirmation of one and the self same doctrine or practise and none of the others haue noted it as dissenting from the Church nor haue written against it In this sort when Saint Augustine had cited against the Pelagians the testimony of an eleuen Fathers eminēt in learning and agreeing in the same points of doctrine he thought he had sufficiently produced against them the beliefe of the Catholike Church and when the Councell of Ephesus had produced ten Fathers of former ages they thought they had sufficiētly expressed the cōsent of the Church in the precedēt tymes against the doctrine of Nestorius for that as Vincentius Lyrinensis noteth they doubted not but those ten Fathers held belieued the self same which all the rest of their brethren did The other way is when the Fathers do speake not as Doctours but as witnesses of the vse and practise of the Church in their ages do not say In my opinion this ought thus to be belieued or thus to be vnderstood or thus to be obserued but the Church from one end of the world to the other belieueth thus or obserueth this For then we do not hold that which they say as a thing sayd by them but as sayd by the vniuersall Church and principally in matters whereof they could not be ignorant by reason either of the condition of things as in matters of fact or in respect of the sufficiencie of the persons And in this case we do not draw from their words only a probable argument as we do when they speake as particuler Doctours but the argument we draw from hence is an absolute demonstration This therfore is to be held vndoubtedly for Vniuersall Catholike which the most eminent of the Fathers that liued in the time of the foure first Councells haue taught in diuers Countreys and different parts of the world and which none of the rest haue impugned or noted as disagreing from the doctrine of the Church or which the Fathers of these Councells haue witnessed to haue bene belieued and practised by the whole Church in their ages and that shall vndoubtedly remayne as ancient and Apostolike which the Fathers of those ages haue testified to haue bene obserued by the whole Church not as a thing newly begun in their time but descended to them by continuall and immemorable succession from former ages or from the expresse Tradition of the Apostles For those thinges hauing bene vniuersally obserued in the tyme of the foure first Councels they could not be instituted but by an vniuersall authority For in the Catholike Church was then exactly obserued the rule mentioned by Vincentius Lyrinensis to oppose Vniuersalitie against Particularitie And therefore one doctrine or obseruation of one particuler Prince could neuer come to be the beliefe or custome vniforme and vniuersall throughout all parts of the world especially in such sort as no one of the Fathers liuing neere the tyme of those vniuersall innouations should haue perceaued or noted but whatsoeuer was then vniuersally obserued in the whole Church must necessarily be instituted by some vniuersall Prince For according to the opinion of your Ministers there were in those ages but two principall and vniuersall authorities the one of the Apostles and the other of generall Councells For they will not admit that the Sea Apostolike had at those tymes any vniuersall authoritie and therefore whatsoeuer shal be found to haue bene vniuersally and vniformly obserued in the Church in all Countreys Prouinces of the earth in the tyme of the foure first Generall Councells and not to haue bene begun in that time but to haue bene formerly practised that is before there was any Generall Councell in the Church must necessarily be a tradition of the Apostles following those rules of S. Augustine Epist 18. Those things saith he which we keep not by writing but by Tradition which are obserued through the whole world are vnderstood to be receaued from the ordination and institution either of the Apostles themselues or of Generall Councells whose authority is most profitable to the Church And in another place That custome also which men looking vpwards could not find that it was instituted by posterity was iustly belieued to haue bene instituted by the Apostles And there are many other things which would be long to repeat And againe If any one in this do seeke diuine authority although that which the vniuersall Church obserueth and hath not bene instituted by Councells but alwayes retayned is iustly belieued not to haue bene deliuered by Tradition but by Apostolicall authority c. Which rules of S. Augustine if they haue place in those things which the Fathers who liued in the tyme of the foure first Councells do testifie to haue bene obserued in the Church before those Councells with how much more reason ought they to haue place in those matters which the same Fathers affirme not in doubtfull but in expresse termes to haue bene instituted and ordained by the Apostles These fiue Obseruations then thus made vpon the Premisses to passe now to the Conclusion I say that so farre of it is that your Ministers to whome his Maiesty doth exteriourly adhere doe hold the same thinges which the ancient Fathers haue belieued and practised as necessary to saluation that in the solemne Seruice or Liturgie of the Church which is the seale of Ecclesiasticall Communion the foure principall points for which they haue separated themselues frō vs which are the Reall Presence of the body of Christ in the Sacrament the Offering of the Sacrifice of the Eucharist Prayer Oblation for the dead Prayer to Saints the ancient Fathers haue vniuersally and vniformly belieued held and practised them all as thinges necessary to saluation although in different degrees of necessitie So as if your Ministers had liued in the time of the ancient Fathers they must as they haue now forsaken and renounced our solemnities and communion for these causes so also haue then renounced the solēnities cōmunion of the ancient Fathers and consequently the title society of the Catholike Church