assign any such on Earth is to destroy the very notion of the Catholick Church and make her as particular as the Jewish Synagogue out of which no Person or Nation was excluded so they would turn Proselytes any more than they are excluded out of the Church of Rome if they will embrace her Faith and submit to her Government But the Church is called Catholick in opposition to such a particular Society because she consists of many such Societies which have in every Nation the same Priviledges which were before peculiar to the Jews And these particular Churches are intire Bodies in themselves not made accountable by Christ or his Apostles to any Foreign Church as to a Head but only as to a Sister Neither is the union of these particular Churches into one Catholick Church an union of subjection to one visible Head but an union of Faith and Charity under our visible Head Christ. When therefore Mr. M. asks in what Provinces of the Earth this Church doth inhabit I answer in most Provinces of the World in more by many than he or his Church will allow Let him read St. Augustine on the 85 Psalm and he will tell him the sin of those that confine the Church to a Province or corner of the World to a Sect or Party of Christians § 2. To this second Question Was there any such Society upon the face of the Earth when Cranmer began his Reformation I answer there was and the several branches of it were dispersed through many Provinces in Europe Asia and Africa The Church of England was one branch thereof such she has continued ever since and we hope will continue to the end of the World And therefore he might have spared the labour which he has spent to prove that there was extant such a Church on the face of the Earth since we believe as firmly as he can desire that according to our Saviour's Prediction the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Catholick Church § 3. To this third Question Did Cranmer believe himself a Member of this Church I answer He did And being placed by Providence in an eminent station in the Church and the Care and Government of so considerable a part thereof being committed to his charge he found himself obliged by the Laws of God and Man to remove those things he apprehended to be Corruptions and Abuses And if they were really such who but Mr. M. can doubt his Authority do do it in a regular way And therefore to his fourth Question Who gave him Authority to Reform this one Holy Catholick Church and to set up Altar against Altar I answer No body he never attempted the one or the other He never attempted to Reform the Catholick Church because he had neither Power or Inspection over her Nor did he ever pretend to make any Law to oblige her He only endeavoured to cultivate and reform that part of her that was committed to his Care. And he must have lost his Understanding or renounced it that doth not see that this is the Duty of every Bishop nay of every Parish-Priest in his sphere and therefore except Mr. M. can shew that Cranmer went beyond his sphere he talks and asks questions to no purpose I suppose that I have already shewn that Cranmer did not exceed his Authority in his proceedings at the Reformation And as he did not pretend to reform the Catholick Church so neither did he set up Altar against Altar There was no Schism made by him in England the Division of Communion was made long after about the Tenth of Queen Elizabeth on the Bull of Pius V. Heylin ad Ann. 1564. 1565. p. 172. § 4. Mr. M. seems to have nothing to object against all this only he insinuates that the Reformation supposes the Catholick Church to be lapsed into Idolatry And if she were guilty of Idolatry she should be no Christian Church And then there is an end of the Episcopal Succession of the Church of England and consequently of the Church it self There is not one step in this Argument but is justly liable to exception I shall only desire the Reader to consider these few things and then judge whether Mr. M. can be supposed to have examined this matter either diligently or impartially 1. The Reformation may be justified without charging the Church of Rome or any other Christian Church with Idolatry 2. The Idolatry with which we commonly charge that Church is not inconsistent with the Being of a Church or Succession of Bishops 3. The Argument Mr. M. has produced to prove the Impossibility of a Christian Churches teaching and practising Idolatry is weak and inconclusive Sect. 5. First The Reformation may be justified without charging the Church of Rome or any other Christian Church with Idolatry Because there were many confessed and notorious Abuses in the Church that needed Reformation besides what we count Idolatrous And the Governors of the Church were obliged to reform them whether they were Idolatrous or no except Mr. M. thinks that nothing but Idolatry can need Reformation Prayer in an unknown Tongue the half Communion the ludicrous and antique Ceremonies of the Mass private Masses and Indulgences Appeals and Foreign Jurisdiction with many other things were removed by the Reformers not because they counted them Idolatrous but because they were great Abuses and Deviations from the Primitive Rules and Practice of the Church The things in the Roman Church which we commonly charge with Idolatry are the Worship of Images the Invocation of Saints and Adoration of the Host Now the Reformation would neither be unjustisiable nor unnecessary tho we should reckon these practises only in the same rank of abuses with the former We need not therefore charge the Church of Rome with Idolatry to justifie our first Reformers But whatever be said as to that he may assure himself we never did nor will charge the Catholick Church with any such Crime She never decreed either worship of Images or adoration of the Host. § 6. But secondly the Idolatry with which we charge the Church of Rome is not inconsistent with the being of a Church or Succession of Bishops I do consess there is an Idolatry inconsistent with all true Religion that is when Men renounce the true God and worship a false one in his stead But there is another Idolatry that consisteth in worshipping a false God with or in Subordination to the true And a third which Men incurr by giving some part of that honour to a Creature which God has reserved sor himself or asking those things of Creatures which God only can give And 't is with this last the Church of Rome stands charged Now not only Doctor Stilling fleet whom he confesses he never read but Primate Bramhall also whom he pretends to have seen have proved that some practice of this kind of Idolatry as well as some other Sins may consist with the Being of a Church But what shall
conclude p. 10. in a word p. 11. in sine next paragraph on the whole matter p. 12. after all his concluding he must have a word or two before he make an end p. 13. he promises to say no more and yet he cannot forbear adding two or three things nothing to the purpose Thus he says and unsays and labours in a heap of confusion And when all is done he puts things in a less advantageous Light than has been done by many of his Brethren before him I shall bring what he says such as it is into this method 1st I will consider what he says in order to vindicate or recommend his new Church And 2ly Wherein he criminates ours § 2. He endeavours to vindicate his new Church in her Devotions as to the Direction of them as to their being in an unknown Tongue and as to their being made before Images He endeavours to recommend her from the excellency of her Prayers and from the Devotion and Unity of her People As to the direction of her Prayers he tells us That instead of Idolatry he found most elevated and judicious Prayers to the Holy Trinity concluding in the Name of our Saviour Jesus Christ p. 9. and he asks Do Roman Catholicks ever say Mass to any other object but the living Father Son and Holy Ghost p. 12. Now if all the Prayers in the Mass be so very elevated and judicious and all said to the Trinity only then God forgive the wickedness of those People who quarrel at this and persecute it with so blind and furious Aversion But soft and fair Mr. M. consider they are Hereticks you pray for and ten to one either do not deserve or do not need your Charity For suppose the Prayers in the Mass were never so judicious and never so well directed yet for ought the People know or any assurance they have besides the honesty of the Priest the Prayers may be Conjuring or Cursing directed to Jupiter or Mahomet and therefore 't is your own Fault that people persecute them with so blind and furious Aversion since you keep the people in that blindness and will not let them understand their Prayers that they may admire their Judiciousness § 3. But 2ly It is to be considered that the Mass was patched up in a barbarous and ignorant Age though many of the Materials are old and the composition is such that all even of the Roman Communion are not satisfied concerning the Judiciousness of the Prayers in it In so much that Cassander who was a little better acquainted with it then Mr. M. confesses the phrase is obscure even to Learned Men that the Canon is difficult and that sometimes there is a sudden jump from one sence of a word to another Cassander was no perverse ill-natured Phanatick but a learned and ingenuous Roman Catholick and yet he finds fault with this Prayer Mr. M. has produc'd and others of the like importance in the Mass because they are improperly used as Masses are now celebrated for these Prayers have respect as he tells us to an ancient custom in the Church now gone out of use and agree chiefly to a Solemn Mass in which there is supposed to be a Communion and Congregation of the people that have offered Bread and Wine This Bread and Wine offered by the People is that immaculate Sacrifice offered up by the Priest in the Prayer mentioned by Mr. M. And where neither People are present nor any Offering is made by them this Prayer and several others in the Mass make a hard shift to gain the Estimation of either Sence or Truth much less of Judiciousness And has given occasion to some to abuse the Mass to Superstition and to others to condemn it as Impious How can a Priest with either Judgment or Truth offer a Sacrifice for all present as the Prayers direct him to do even in a solitary Mass when none is present or near him But 3ly As all the Prayers in the Mass are not judiciously contrived so neither are they all said to the Trinity the very Sacrifice being offered up for the Honour of Saints and Angels and to obtain of them their Intercession besides several Prayers made to them for the same purpose directly contrary to what we learn from Saint Augustine to have been the Practice of the ancient Church § 4. Mr. M. seems aware of this Objection and hints at three Answers to it 1st That Presbyterians object as much against that Canticle in the Common-Prayer-Book called Benidecite 2dly That the Roman Catholick ascribe nothing to Angels or Saints but as the Ministers of God And 3dly That the Angels must know our affairs and the Saints have intelligence from them and therefore we pray to them 1. He assures us That the Reader shall find Protestants objecting nothing against Consessing and Praying to Saints and Angels but what Presbyterians do against that Canticle in the Common-Prayer-Book called Benedicite omnia opera O Ananias Azarias and Misael praise ye the Lord is as rank Popery with Presbyterians as any thing in the Mass or Litanies of our Lady p. 9. Now except he be able to shew where the Presbyterians have declared this as their sence we can count him no better than a Slanderer For my part I do prosess that I never yet met with one single Presbyterian so silly as to make this Apostrophe for an Invocation of dead Men who do not hear us The disparity of the case is so manifest between our Church and the Roman that it is hardly possible any should mistake The Roman Church has determined that it is good and prositable humbly to invocate the Saints and to flee to their Prayers Help and Assistance Our Church has declared Invocation of Saints to be a fond thing vainly invented To parallel therefore the Presbyterian Objection if any such there be against us with ours against the Papists on this Head is to shift off an Objection which did not easily admit of an Answer § 5. Let us see if this second Answer be any better which is that the Roman Catholicks attribute nothing to Angels or Saints but as the Ministers and Favourites of the Living God receiving from him whatever understanding they have of our affairs p. 12. But what then May not Men ascribe more to Favourites than the King allows them and is not that an encroachment on his Prerogative If Mr. M. will shew us where God allows us to make Prayers to Saints to erect Images for their Worship burn Incense before them dedicate Churches to their Honour make Vows to them or devote Orders and Societies of Men as slaves to their Service he will indeed vindicate his Church against the Reformation for in possession of all these the first Reformers found them and justly concluded it safest to lay them aside as too much to be allowed Favourites out of our own head without the express Declaration of the Princes Will. But if he cannot
shew that God allows them these things it will be the safest way and no hurt for him or us to lot them alone § 6. His third Answer or pretence is no less insufficient where he alledges that the Angels must know our affairs because they are ministring Spirits sent forth for the good of those who shall be heirs of Salvation and because they rejoice at the Conversion of sinners and have glorified Saints no Communication or Intelligence with the Angels p. 13. To which I answer That these allegations neither justifie the Invocation nor the worship of Angels or Saints It is true the Angels are ministring Spirits but we neither know which of them are assigned to minister unto us nor when they are present These things depend altogether on the immediate Will of God and therefore it is to Him not Them we are to apply our selves if we would obtain their Care and Ministry for our good 'T is true likewise that the Saints and Angels rejoyce at our Conversion when that Conversion comes to their knowledge But that place in St. Luke 15. 7. I say unto you Joy shall be in Heaven over on◠sinner that repents more than over ninety nine just Persons doth no more prove that the Angels in Heaven know all the Conversions on Earth or that we ought to pray to them than my saying That there is more joy in Rome over one such Proselite as Mr. M. than over ninety nine born Roman Catholicks doth prove that I believe such Conversions are all known there and that therefore Mr. M. may go into his Closet and pray to the Cardinals because it is plain his Affairs are known at Rome Lastly 'T is true that the glorified Saints have Communication with the Angels and may receive intelligence of our Affairs from them and therefore I would advise Mr. M. to send his Service and Requests to them by the next Angel he meets going that way But because Angels pass and repass from Heaven to Earth to conclude that we may at all times and in all places with mind and voice pray to Saints is as foolish as to conclude because we have Posts pass from London to Dublin that therefore a Man here may beg the assistance of his Friends Prayers who are in London every time he goes to his knees This is the wise Vindication Mr. M. has made for his Church as to the Direction of some of her Prayers § 7. The second thing which Mr. M. undertakes to vindicate in his Church is her using a Tongue unknown to the People in all her publick Devotions and Services And it happens to him in this as it does in most other things if all that he says were granted him it would neither justifie his Church nor condemn the Reformation since not one of his Arguments so much as pretend to prove a known Tongue unlawful in the publick Service of God or an unknown Tongue expedient which will appear on the Examination He alledges therefore 1. That the Objection of its being said in the Latin Tongue allows every one to hear it that understands Latin. A great favour indeed Who can after this accuse the Roman Church of keeping Men ignorant of her Service It is plain from our very Objection that they may hear it if they but understand Latin and 't is their own fault if they do not understand it 'T is only spending seven or eight years to acquire the Latin Tongue and then they may undestand some part of her Service But pray what is this to the illiterate World who are past the age of learning Latin What is this to the Poor who are the bulk of the World and have the best and most peculiar Title to the Gospel and yet have neither capacity nor opportunity to learn Latin Mr. M. bids them be of good chear For unlearned Catholicks if the truth were known understand as much or more of the Mass than illiterate Protestants do of the Common Prayer If a Man were apt to give ill words the confidence and palpable falshood of this Assertion would certainly provoke him It were better surely to believe nothing but our Senses which he falsly imputes to some Protestants than to undertake to face down Sense and Experience in a matter in which the meanest most illiterate Protestant in the World will be a Demonstration against him We are content our People should believe all Mr. M. says according as they find this true But he objects farther What does the Protestant Multitude understand of the Predictions of Isaiah c. read in their Churches by appointment of the Common Prayer Suppose they understood not one word of them how doth it follow that unlearned Catholicks understand more of the Mass than illiterate Protestants do of the Common-Prayer Book This is a new Instance of Mr. M's old Infirmity in drawing Consequences We are now talking of Common Prayers in which the People ought to joyn and he talks of the Lessons which are no part of them There are commonly in every Congregation persons of better and of meaner capacity 't is fit both should be instructed Those Lessons out of Isaiah are for the better capacities and are read so as may make them most easie to them And what great matter if the weaker for whom they are not intended do not understand them since they are sufficiently provided for otherwise Their obscurity might be some reason against reading them at all but if they ought to be read as is ordered both by the Common-Prayer Book and Breviary I hope they will be better understood in English than Latin And yet after all there is not one Lesson ordered to be read by the Common-Prayer Book but the meanest of the Protestant Multitude understands more of it then a whole illiterate Popish Congregation understands of the Breviary or Mass and of this he may make an Experiment when he pleases His second Allegation in behalf of his Church is that she has set forth Expositions of the Mass in Print How many Evpositions of the Mass says he are extant in Print by Commandment of the Church So that no Man can be ignorant of it that desires to be informed To this I answer That if by an Exposition be meant a Translation of the Mass there is not one extant in Print by Commandment of their Church On the contrary the Congregation of the Index have Damned the very hours of the blessed Virgin for being in the Vulgar Tongue as may be seen at large in Saint Amours Journal Part. 3. Chap. 5. There is indeed a Translation stolen out of late in English but it is without any Authority which may be called a Commandment of their Church However if it were set out by her Authority what could it signifie to the greater part of the People who are neither able to procure nor read that Translation And if they could read it yet would no more be able by help of it to joyn with the Priest then
Licensed June the 1st 1687. AN ANSWER TO THE CONSIDERATIONS Which obliged PETER MANBY Late Dean of London-Derry in Ireland As he pretends to EMBRACE what he calls THE Catholick Religion By William King Chancellor of St. Patricks Dublin Isaiah 1. 2. I have nourished and brought up Children and they have rebelled against me LONDON Printed for R. Taylor near Stationers-Hall 1687. THE CONTENTS Chap. 1. The Examination of his Preface Sect. 1. THE Introduction Sect. 2. Whether Mr. M. really desired the Information Sect. 3. Catholick Church defined S. 4. Answer to his first Question What Church meant by the Catholick S. 5. To his second Question Whether the Church of England S. 6. To his third Question With what other Church she Communicates S. 7. To his fourth Whether the variety of all Protestants be the Catholick Church S. 8. To his fifth Question Whether we and Lutherans are the same in all material points S. 9. Our Church visible before Edward VI. S. 11. His unfair dealing with Dr. Heylin and Dr. Burnet Chap. 2. About Mission Sect. 1. His Letter to his Grace the Lord Primate examined S. 2. The Questions concerning Mission reduced to five Heads S. 3. The validity of our Orders S. 5. Answer to his first Question What Priesthood had the first Reformers but what they received from Roman Catholick Bishops S. 6. To his second Who Authorized them to teach their Protestant Doctrine c S. 7. To his third Whether Cranmer did condemn the Church of Rome and by what Authority S. 8. To his fourth Whether a Presbyterian can preach against the Church of England by virtue of Orders received from her S. 9. To his fifth Whether an Act of Parliament in France c. be not as good an Authority for Popery there as in England for Protestancy S. 10. Mr. M's Objections against the first Reformers considered S. 11. His Objections against Cranmer in particular Answered to the end Chap. 3. About Confession Sect. 1. Whether We in our Church differ about Confession S. 2. The Doctrine of our Church in this matter whence Confession appears not to be wanting S. 3. His Argument proposed out of St. John 1. 9. compared with John 20. 23. S. 4. The words if we Confess John 1. Ep. 1. 9. shewn not to refer to Auricular Confession S. 5. Gods faithfulness and Justice mentioned John 1. Ep. 1. 9. do not respect particularly the Promise John 20. 23. S. 6. If they did yet this wou'd not prove Auricular Confession S. 7. 8. His second Argument from the practice of all Ages and Churches considered and shewn to be false S. 9. His third Argument from the inconveniency that attends the want of Confession S. 11. His fourth Argument from the interest of the Priest. Chap. 4. About the place of the Catholick Church Sect. 1. Answer to his third Difficulty Where is the Catholick Church S. 2. Whether extant before Cranmer S. 3. Whether Cranmer believed himself a Member thereof S. 4 5. The Reformation justifiable without charging the Church of Rome with Idolatry S. 6 7 8. All Idolatry not inconsistent with the Being of a Church S. 9. The weakness of his Argument brought to prove it Chap. 5. An Answer to the heap of Particulars thrown together at the latter end of his Paper Sect. 1. 2. His endeavour to vindicate his Church in her Devotions S. 3. Whether all elevated and judicious S. 4. His first Answer taken from the Benedicite to Protestant Objections against Prayers in the Mass directed to Saints S. 5. The second from the Angels being Favourites S. 6. The third from their knowing our Affairs S. 7. His Excuses for the Mass being in an unknown Tongue S. 8. His Vindication of the Worship of Images from the Council of Trents forbidding Superstition S. 9. From Kneeling at the Sacrament S. 10. From Presbyterian Objections against our Practice S. 11. His Excuse for the ill Practices and Opinions of some Roman Catholicks S. 12. His recommendation of his Church from her Books of Devotion S. 13. From the Devotion of her People S. 14. From the Unity of her Members that Unity shewed not to be so great as pretended from the Schisms that have been in her about Ordinations S. 15. From the Disputes about Confirmation S. 16. About Confession S. 17. What he objects against the Church of England first from her stealing her Communion-Service S. 18. Secondly from her want of a due Foundation S. 19. For trusting Reason too far S. 20. And contradicting the visible Church S. 21. Thirdly Not yielding a due Submission S. 22. Due Submission shewn to be paid by her to the universal Church and taught to be due to particular Churches S. 23. Mr. M's Transcribing and Englishing Calvin examined together with his Inference S. 24. Mr. M's Submission to the Catholick and the particular Church whereof he was a Member examined AN ANSWER TO THE CONSIDERATIONS Which obliged Peter Manby Dean of Derry to embrace the Communion of the Romish Church CHAP. 1. To the Preface § 1. PEter Manby Dean of Derry has chosen this time for what reasons he knows best to declare himself of the Communion of the Church of Rome Whoever doth so in the present circumstances must run the hazard of being censured for having too great a value for the Favours and worldly Advantages that some late Converts have met with In order therefore to satisfie the World that he had some other Reasons besides this prospect I suppose he published this Pamphlet that I now answer Whoever reads it will find so little Method or Connexion between the parts of it that he must conclude the Writer was never acquainted with close thinking and that the loosness and immethodicalness of it is the greatest trouble lyes on the Answerer the truth is it sticks chiesly on Formalities and Preliminaries which no Advocate ever insisted much upon that was confident of the merits of his Cause and therefore to answer it can hardly be worth any ones labour I confess I should have thought so too if I had not found some of his own party boasting of it and I do now assure him that I do not Answer it out of any apprehension I have of its seducing any of ours and that it had been answered long ago if I had been possessed with any such Suspicion It consists of three parts and each of these do in effect contain the same things and except a man give a distinct Answer to each he may pretend that part is unanswered I shall therefore follow him in his own method and consider first his Preface to the Reader secondly the Pamphlet it self and thirdly his Latine Queries and beg the Readers Pardon if he find the Answers sometimes repeated when Mr. M. repeats the questions so often § 2. His Preface has huddled together some Questions and Dilemma's concerning the Catholick Church and raised some doubts concerning which he professes himself to be at a loss and so desires information
Thus pag. 1. When a Protestant rehearses this Article of his Creed I believe one Catholick Church I would fain understand what Church he means Again this makes Protestancy so wandring and uncertain a thing that I for my part cannot understand it Pag. 3. He shall find me pressing for an Answer to such Questions as these Pag 1. of the Pamphlet There are three points wherein I could never satisfie my self a little after I could never find any satisfactory Answer to this Question Pag. 2. pronouncing the Church of Rome Idolatrous I would fain know by what Authority A little after by whose Authority I cannot tell Pag. 3 there was no Answer to be had A little after I cannot find l. 9. I do not well understand l. 15. I could never understand Pag. 4. I would know Pag. 7. l. 13 I confess my dullness understands not Pag 8. line 16. I would fain know line 25. Which Answer I confess I do not understand pag. 11. line 15. I desire to be informed l. the last I cannot imagine Pag. 12. line 15. I cannot understand Now if he was so very ignorant as he makes himself and so desirous of information he ought to have consulted some of his Spiritual Guides on these heads and not trusted altogether to his own Judgement or else he ought in all reason to have printed these Questions before he resolv'd them unanswerable for how did he know but some body might have had more to say to them than he was aware of and have given him satisfaction If he had designed to be counted either a prudent or honest man this had been his method but I have enquired and cannot find that ever he proposed them seriously to one Divine or applyed himself to any in this weighty affair before he deserted our Communion and therefore though perhaps he may be ignorant enough yet I think it apparent that he only pretends want of understanding and desire of information or that he has very little care of his Soul or of what Communion he is § 3. To give his Questions proposed in his Preface a distinct Answer I shall first rank them in method Concerning therefore the Catholick Church he asks 1. What Church we mean 2. Whether the Church of England alone as established by Law or as in Communion with other Churches 3. With what other Church under Heaven doth the Church of England communicate in Sacraments and Liturgy 4. Whether the variety of Protestants be the Catholick Church since they want her Essential mark called Unity 5. Whether we and the Lutherans are of the same Church the Lutherans holding a Corporal Presence in the Sacrament and we denying it All these we have in the first page of his Preface and all proceed from the same root even ignorance of what is meant by the Catholick Church If Mr. M. had designed to deal ingenuously and like a Scholar that desired to clear things which ought to be the design of every honest writer he ought to have laid down a definition of the Catholick Church and then examined to whom it belonged and shewn the Church as established here by Law to be no part of it for till that be done all that is said is banter for we mean not the same thing by the Church I never saw any Romanist take this method and therefore I have always believed that they rather designed to gain Proselytes by confounding their Heads than by clear Reason and Information I will therefore tell him what I mean by the one Catholick Church in the Creed and if he do not like the description let him mend it The Catholick Church is the whole body of men professing the Religion of Christ and living under their lawful Spiritual Governours This body of Christians is one because it has according to St. Paul Ephes. 4. 5. one Lord one Faith one Baptism one God and according to Saint Augustine many Churches are one Church because there is one Faith one Hope one Charity one Expectation and lastly one heavenly Country now if he had been as much concerned to understand this a right as he would have his Dear Reader he might easily have seen who it is that fancy to themselves a Church divided from all the rest of the world by breaking the bonds of Charity and coyning new Articles distinct from those of the Catholick Faith which we received from Christ and his Apostles and that the Answers to his Questions are very easie § 4. For to the First when he would know what Church we mean when we rehearse that Article of our Creed I believe one holy Catholick and Apostolick Church the Answer is that we mean not any particular Church nor any party of Christians of any one denomination but all those that hold the Catholick Faith and live under their lawful Pastors while they have those marks I have laid down from the Scripture and St. Augustine they are still of one Communion though by the peevishness and mistake of their Governours they may be engaged in Quarrels as the Church of Rome was in St. Cyprians time with the Church of Africa about the allowing the Baptism of Hereticks and the Quarrel came to that height that when the Africans came to Rome not only the peace of the Church and Communion was denyed them but even the common kindness of Hospitality as we may see in Firmilians Epistle to Saint Cyprian Ep. 75. This being supposed it is no hard matter to find out the parts of this Catholick Church where-ever one comes it is only Examining whether any Church hold the Catholick Faith and whether they live under their lawful Governours and so far as they do so it is our duty to joyn with them as true parts thereof Whereas he who with the Donatists will unchurch three parts of four of the Christian World or fancy a Church divided from all others though as sound in Faith and as obedient to their Governours as possible is like for ever to be tossed too and fro upon the unstable waters of Schism and dwindles the Church into a Faction and this gives a full Answer § 5. To his second Question whether we mean by the Catholick Church the Church of England alone or the Church of England as in Communion with other Churches for by this it appears that the Churches of England and Ireland are no more the Catholick Church than the English Seas are the whole Ocean but they are a part thereof because they hold the Catholick Faith intirely and are governed by their lawful and Catholick Bishops who have not had for many years so much as a Rival appearing to contest their Title and Succession § 6. But then he urges in the third place with what other Church doth the Church of England Communicate in Sacraments and Liturgy To which I answer Unity of Liturgy is no part of Communion of Churches let him shew if he can that the Catholick Church ever had any such