in Jul. orat 2. wax tapers in sign of joy for the certainty of their future resurrection The Church then had the picture of Christ and of his Saints both x Euseb de Vita Const out of Churches y Paulin Epist 12. Basil in Martyr Bar and in them and upon the very z Prudent in S. Cassian Altars not to adore them with God like worship but by them to reverence the Souldiers and Champions of Christ The faithfull then used the a Tert de coron milit sign of the cross in all their Conversations b Cyril Cont. Jâ—l l 6. painted it on the portal of all the houses of the faithfull c Hier in Vit. Hil. gave their blessing to the people with their hand by the sign of the cross d Athan cont Idol imployed it to drive away evil spirits e Paul Ep 11. proposed in Jerusalem the very cross to be adored on good fryday Finally the Church held then f Tert de praescrip Iren. l. 3. c. 3. l. 4. c. 32. that to the Catholick Church onely belongs the keeping of the Apostolicall tradition the Authority of interpretation of Scripture and the decision of Controversies of faith and that out of the succession g Cypr de unit Eceles Conc Car 4. c. 1. of her communion of h Hier Cont Lucif Aug de util cred c. 8. her Doctrine i Cypr ad pub Ep 63. ad mag Ep 67. Hier. ad Tit c. 3. and her ministery there was neither Church nor Salvation Neither will I insist with you only upon the word then but before and before and before that even to the first age of all will I shew you our doctrine of the reall presence and holy Sacrifice of the Masse Invocation of Saints Veneration of Reliques and Images Confession and Priestly absolution Purgatory and prayer for the dead Traditions c. In the fift Age or hundred of years Saint Augustine was for the reall and corporall presence a Aug Conc 1. in Psall 33. In the fourth Age Saint Ambrose b Lib 4. de Sacra In the third Age S. Cyprian c 5. and l. de iis qui misteriis initiantur c. 9. c Serm de Coena Dom. prope init In the second Age or hundred of years S. Irenaeus d l. 4. c. 32. infin And in the first Age e Ep ad smirnum uâ— cit a Theod Dial 3. S. Ignatius Martyr and disciple of St. John the Evangilist Concerning the honour and invocation of Saints In the fifth age we find S. Augustine f Serm. de Verb Apost prope init medit c. 40. li. de loquutionibus in gen prope finem praying to the Virgin Mary and other Saints In the fourth age we find Greg. Naz. praying to S. Basil the great g In Orat 20. quae est in laudem Basil mag And St. Hier Cont Vigil 13. initio In the third age we find S. Origin praying to Father Abraham h Initio sui lamenti In the second age Justin Martyr i Apol 2. ad Anton pium Imper non longe ab initio And in the first age in the Liturgy of S. James the lesse k Ange Med. For the use and veneration of holy Reliques and Images and chiefly of the Holy Cross In the fifth age Saint Augustine l Tract 118. in Joan fine In the fourth age Athanasius m Ad Antiochum principem In the third age Brigin n Hom 8. in diversos Evangelij locos In the second age S. Justin Martyr o Ad quaest 28. Gentilium And in the first age St. Ignatius p Epist ad Phil ante Med. Concerning Confession and Absolutions In the fifth age St. August q Hom 49. ante Med. In the fourth age S. Basil the great r Sui regulis brevior interr 288. In the third age St. Cypr. Å¿ Serm de lapsis In the second age Tertull. t l. de poenit c. 10. And in the first age St. Clement u Clement Ro Epist 1. Now concerning Purgatory and Prayer for the dead in the fifth age St. Augustin a De Civit. Dei li 26. c. 24. and also Ser. 41. de sanct prope init also Serm. 22. de Verb Apost In the foutrh age St. Ambrose b Ambr. in 1. Cor 3. S. Hier. in Com. in cap. 11. proverb In the third age St. Cypr. c Epist 5. ad Anton post med In the second age Tertull. d li de animae c. 58. de Corona milit c. 3. 4. And in the first age St. Clement l Clem Ro Ep 1. de S Petr prope fin Concerning Traditions in the fifth age St. Augustin f l. 4. de bapt Con. Donaâ—… c. 24. In the fourth age St. Basil g li de Sp Sancto c. 27. In the third age St. Epiphanius h Heref 61. In the second age St. Irenaeus i li 3. c. 4. And in the first age St. Dennis k Areopag c. 1. Eccles Hierar Now suppose that all these quotations be right The saving of a soul of your own soul of the soul of a King of the souls of so many Kingdomes and the gaining of that Kingdom for a reward which in Comparison of these earthly ones for which you so often fight somuch strive and labour so much for to obtaine your tetrarchate would be a gain for you to lose it so that you might but obtain that would be worth the search and when you have found them to be truly cited I dare trust your judgement that it will tell you that we have not changed our Countenance nor fled our Colours nor fallen away nor altered our Religion nor forsaken our first love nor denied our principles nor brought novelties into the Church but that we do antiquum obtinere whereby we should be forsaken of you for forsaking our selves but rather that we should winne you unto us by being still the same we were when we wonne you first unto us and were at the beginning And is it for the honour of the English Nation famous for the first Christian King and the first Christian Emperour to forsake her mother Church so renowned for antiquitie and to annex their Religion as a codicell to an appeale of a company of Protesters against a decree at Spira and to forsake so glorious a name as Catholick and to take a name upon them wherein they had neither right nor interest and then to take measure of the Scotish Discipline for the new fashion of their souls and to make to themselves posies of the weedings of that Garden into which Christ himself came down a Cant. 6. 1. upon which both the north and south-winds do blow b Cant. 4. 16. in which is a well of living waters and streams from Lebanon c Cant. 4 15. about which is an
wish that all Controversies betwixt you and Us were as well decided I am fully satisfied in this point Doctor May it please Your Majestie A great many Controversies between us and the Papists might be soon decided if the Churches revennues which were every where taken away more or less where differences in Religion in several parts of the world did arise in the Church were not an obstacle of the reunion like the stone which the Crab cast into the Oyster which hindred it from ever shutting it self again like the division which happened between the Greek and Latin Church Photinus intrudes himself into the Patriarch-ship of Constantinople over the head of Ignatius the lawfull Patriarch thereof whom the Pope preserved in his Communion and then the difference of the Procession of the holy Ghost between those two Churches was fomented by the sayd Photinus least the wound should heale to soone and the patient should not be held long enough in cure for the benefit of the Chyrurgion Sacriledge hath brought more divisions then the nature of their causes have required and the universities play with edged tools whilst hungry stomacks run away with their meat wherefore since Your Majestie was pleased to discharge the watch that I had set before the door of my lips I shall make bold to put Your Majestie in mind of houlding my Lord to the demand which Your Majestie once made unto his Lordship concerning the true Church for if once that Question were througly determined all Controversies not onely between Your Majestie his Lordship but also all the Controversies that ever were started would soon be decided at a short race end and without this we take away the meanes of reconciliation For I must confesse ingeniously yet under the highest correction that there is not a thing that I ever understood less then that assertion of the Scriptures being judge of Controversies though in some sence I must and will acknowledge it but not as it is a book consisting of papers words and letters for as we commonly say in matters of civil differences the Law shall be the Judge between us we do not mean that every man shall run unto the Law books or that any Lawyer himself shall search his Law-cases and thereupon possess himself of any thing that is in question between him and another without a legall trial and determination by lawfull Judges constituted to that same purpose In like manner saving knowledge and Divine Truths are the portion that all Gods children layes fast claime unto yet they must not be their own carvers though it is their own meat that is before them whilst they have a mother at the table They must not slight all Orders Constitutions Appeales and Rules of Faith Saving knowledge and Divine Truths are not to be wrested from the Scripture by private hands for then the Scripture were of private interpretation which is against the Apostles Rule neither are those undefiled incorruptible and immaculate inheritances which are reserved for us in heaven to be conveighed unto us by any Privy-seales For there is nothing more absurd to my understanding then to say that the thing contested which is the true meaning of the Scriptures shall be Judge of the Contestation no way inferiour to that absurditie which would follow would be this if we should leave the deciding of the sence of the words of the Law to the preoccupated understanding of one of the Advocates neither is this all the absurditie that doth arise upon this Supposition for if you grant this to one you must grant it to any one and to every one if there were but two how will you reconcile them both If you grant that this judicature must be in many there are many manyes which of the manyes will you have decide but that and you satisfie all For if you make the Scripture the Judge of Controversie you make the reader Judge of the Scripture as a man consists of a soul and body so the Scripture consists of the letter and the sence if I make the dead letter my Judge I am the greatest and simplest idolater in the world it will tell me no more then it told the Indian Emperour Powhaton who asking the Jesuite how he knew all that to be true which he had told him and the Jesuite answering him that Gods word did tell him so The Emperour asked him where it was he shewed him his Bible The Emperour after that he had held it in his hands a prittie while answered It tells me nothing But you will say you can read and so you will find the meaning out of the significant Character and when you have done as you apprehend it so it must be and so the Scripture is nothing else but your meaning wherefore necessitie requires an external Judge for determination of differences besides the Scriptures And we can have no better recourses to any then to such as the Scripture it self calls upon us to hear which is the Church which Church would be found out King Doctor Saint John in his first Epistle tells us that the holy Scripture is that to whose truth the Spirit beareth witness And John the Evangelist tells us that the Scripture is that which gives a greater Testimonie of Christ then John the Baptist Saint Luke tells us that if we believe not the Scripture we would not believe though one were risen from the dead and Christ himself who raised men from death to life tells us they cannot believe his words if they believe not in Moses writings Saint Peter tells us that the holy Scriptures is surer then a voice from heaven Saint Paul tells us that it is lively in operation and whereby the Spirits demonstrates his power and that it is able to make a man wise to salvation able to save our soules and that it is sufficient too to make us believe in Christ to live everlasting John 20. As in every seed there is a Spirit which meeting with earth heat and moisture grows to perfection so the seed of the word wherein Gods holy Spirit being sowen in the heart inlivened by the heat of faith and watered with the teares of repentance soon fructifies without any further Circumstance Doctor It doth so but Your Majestie presupposes all this while husband-men and husbandery barnes and threshing floures winnowing and uniting these severall graines into one loafe before it can become childrens bread All that Your Majestie hath said concerning the Scriptures sufficiencie is true provided that those Scriptures be duly handled for as the Law is sufficient to determine right and keep all in peace and quiteness yet the execution of that sufficiencie cannot be performed without Courts and Judges so when we have granted the Scriptures to be all that the most reverend estimation can attribute unto them yet Religion cannot be exercised nor differences in Religion reconciled without a Judge For as Saint Jerom tells us who was no great friend to Popes or Bishops Si
setting down things more obscurely There is no particular point of Doctrine in the holy Scripture so manifestly set down as that concerning the Church and the Markes thereof nothing set down more copious and perspicuous then the visibility perpetuitie and amplitude of the Church So that Saint Augustin did not stick to say that the Scriptures were more clear about the Church then they were about Christ. Let him answer for it He said so in his book de unitate Ecclesiae and this he said was the reason because God in his wisedome would have the Church to be described without any ambiguity that all Controversies about the Church may be clearly decided wherehy questions about particular Doctrines may find determinations in her judgement and that Visibility might shew the way unto the most rude and ignorant and I know not any Church to whom it may more justly be attributed then to the Church of Rome whose Faith as in the beginning was spread through the whole world so all along and at this day it is generally known among all nations Next to this I prove the Catholick Church to be the Romane because a lawfull succession of Pastors is required in every true Church according to the Prophet Esay his Prophecie concerning her viz. My Spirit which is upon thee and the words which I have put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seed nor out of the mouth of thy seeds seed from henceforth for ever This succession I can find onely in the Church of Rome This Succession they onely can prove none else offering to go about it This Succession Saint Augustin sayes kept him in that Church viz. a Succession of Priests from the very seat of Peter the Apostle to the present Bishop of his time And Optatus Milevitanus recons all the Romane Bishops from Saint Peter to Syricius who then was Pope and by this he shewed and made it his Argument that the true Church was not with the Donatists bidding them to shew the Originall of their Chayre this no Protestant did or ever can do The Romane Church gave the English Bishops Commission to preach the Doctrine of Christ as they have delivered it unto them but they never gave them any Commission to preach against her Religion which Bishops being turned out for observing the depositum wherewith they were instructed and new Bishops chosen in their room by her who not contenting her self with being a nursing mother thereof must needs be head of the child and moderatrix in the same Church wherein by the Apostles precept she is forbidden to speak the Succession was broke off the branch cut off from the body becoming no part of the tree sit for nothing but to be chopt into smaller pieces and so fitted for the fire this proofe of Succession the Bishops of England thought so necessary for proving their Church to be the true Church that they affirmed themselves to be consecrated by Catholick Bishops their Predecessors wbich never proved argues the interruption and affirming it shewes how that in their own opinion the Succession could not hold in the inferiour Ministers as indeed it cannot for as there is a continued supply of Embassadours in all places yet the Succession is in the royall race so though all vacancies are replenished by Ministers of the Gospel yet the Succession of the Authority was in the Bishops as descended to them from the Apostles according to our Saviours rule I will be with you alwayes unto the end of the world Which Affirmation of theirs argues that their calling is insufficient without it and in that they would faine derive it from the Church of Rome it argues that that is the true Church and yet they would forsake her supposing her to have errors when that Reformation it self was but a Supposition for seeing they hold that their Church may erre they can be certain of nothing and whilst for errors sake they forsake the Church of Rome the Church of England in forsaking her may be in the greatest error of all where there is neither Succession nor assurance I must leave her to her self and Your Majestie to judge Next I prove the Romane Church to be the true Church by her unity in Doctrine for so the Apostle Paul requires all the Churches children to be of one mind viz. I beseech you that all speak one thing Be ye knit together in one mind and one Judgement 1. Cor. 1. Endeavouring to keep the unitie of the Spirit in the bond of peace Ephes 4. 3. The multitude of them that believed were of one heart of one soul Act. 4. 32. Continue in one spirit and one mind of one accord and one judgement Phil. 1. 27. Phil. 2. 2. So our Saviour prayeth that they may be one So Joseph forewarned his brethren that they should not fall out by the way knowing that whilst they were with him he could order them when they came to their father he could order them but having no head they should be apt to dissentious This Vnity I find no where but in the Church of Rome agreeing in all things which the Church of Rome hath determined for Doctrine whereas the Protestant Doctrine like the heresie of Simon Magus divided it self into severall Sects and to that of the Donatists which were cut into small threds in so much that among the many Religions which are lately sprung up and the sub sub subdivisions under them each one pretending to be the true Protestant excluding the other and all of them together no more likely to be bound up in the bond of peace then a bundle of thornes can expect binding with a rope of sand In vaine is their excuse if non-disagreement in fundamentalls for they dis-agree amongst themselves about the Sacrament for the Lutherans hold Consubstantiation but the Church of England no such matter Some that Christ descended into hell others not The Church of England maintaine their King to be the head of the Church The Helvetians will acknowledge no such matter the Presbyterians will acknowledge no such matter the Independent will acknowledge no such matter Concerning the Government of the Church by Bishops some Protestants maintaine it to be Jure Divino others to be Jure Ecclesiastico others no such matter Some thinks that the English translations of the Bible in some places takes away in other places addes and other-some places changes the meaning of the holy Ghost and some think it no such matter or else the Bishops would not have recommended Lincol. min. to K. James pag. 11. 13. it unto the people Lastly they are so far from agreeing about the true meaning of the word of God that they cannot agree upon what is the word of God For Lutherans deny the second Epistle of Saint Peter the second and third Chem. Ex. Contr. Trid. part 1. pag. 55 Also Eucher p. 63. Epistle of Saint John the Epistle to the Hebr.
without spot or wrincle Ephesians 5. 27 such a Church as shall be enlivened for ever with his Spirit Isaiah 59 21 The Fathers affirm the same Saint Aug Contra Crescon lib 1. ca. 3. Saint Cypr Epist 55. ad Cornel. num 3. Saint Irenaeus lib 3. chap 4. Cum multis aljis We say the Church hath been alwaies visible you deny it we have Scripture for it Mat 5. 14 15 The light of the world a City upon a hill cannot be hid 2 Cor 4 3 Isaiah 22 The Fathers unanimously affirm the same Origen Hom 30 in Math That the Church is full of light even from the East to the West Saint Chrisost Hom 4 in 6 of Isaiah That it is easier for the Sun to be extinguished then the Church to be darkned Saint Aug tract in Joan cals them blind who do not see so great a mountain and St Cypr de Vnitate Ecclaesioe We hold the perpetuall universality of the Church and that the Church of Rome is such a Church you deny it we have Scripture for it Psalm 2. 8. Rom. 1. 8. the Fathers affirm as much Saint Cypr ep 57. writing to Cornelius Pope of Rome saith whilst with you there is one mind and one voice the whole Church is confessed to be the Romane Church Saint Aug. de unitate eccles chap. 4. saith who so communicates not with the whole corps of Christendome certain it is that they are not in the holy Catholike Church Saint Hier in apol ad Ruffin saith that it is all one to say the Roman faith and the Catholick We hold the unity of the Church to be necessary in all points of faith you deny it the severall articles of your Protestant Churches deny it we have Scripture for it Eph. 4. 5. One Lord one faith one Baptisme Acts 4. 35. 1 Cor. 1. 10. The Fathers are of that opinion Saint Aug. cont ep Par li. 3. chap. 5. Saint Cyp. li. de unitate ecclesiae nu 3. Saint Hyl. lib. ad constantium Augustum We hold that every Minister of the Church especially the supreme Minister or head thereof should be in a capacity of fungifying his office in preaching the Gospel administring the Sacraments baptizing marrying and not otherwise this we have Scripture for Heb. No man taketh this honour unto himself but he that is called of God as Aaron was this you deny not only so but you so deny it as that your Church hath maintained and practised it along time for a woman to be head or supreme moderatrix in the Church when you know that according to the word of God in this respect a woman is not only forbid to be the head of the man but to have a tongue in her head 1 Tim. 2. 11 12. 1 Cor. 14. 34. yet so hath this been denied by you that many have been hang'd drawn and quartered for not acknowledging it the Fathers are of our opinion herein Saint Damascen ser 1 Theod hist Ecclesi li 4 chap 28 Saint Ignat Epist ad Philodolph Saint Chyrsost hom 5. de verbis Isaiae We say that Christ gave commission to his Disciples to forgive sins you deny it and say that God only can forgive sinnes we have Scripture for it John 20. 23. Whosesoever sins ye remit they are remitted and whosesoever sinnes ye tetain they are retained and John 20. 21 As my Father hath sent me even so send I you and how was that viz. with so great power as to forgive sinnes Mat 9. 3. 8. where note that Saint Matthew doth not set down how that the people glorified God the Father who had given so great power unto God the Son but that he had given so great power unto men loco citato The Fathers are of our opinion S. Aug tract 49 in Joan Saint Chris de Sacerdotio li. 3. Saint Ambros li 3. de penitentia Saint Cyrill li 12 ca 50 saith It is not absurd to say that they should remit sinnes who have in them the Holy Ghost and Saint Basil li 5 cont Eunom proved the holy Ghost to be God so confuted his heresie because the holy Ghost forgave sins by the Apostles and Saint Irenaeus li 5. cap 13 so Saint Greg Hom 6 Evang We hold that we ought to confesse our sinnes unto our ghostly Father this ye deny saying that ye ought not to confesse your sinnes but unto God alone this we prove out of Scripture Mat 3 5 6. Then went out Jerusalem and all Judea and were baptized of him in Jordan confessing their sinnes this confession was no generall confession but in particular as appears Acts 19 18 19. And many that believed came and confessed and shewed their deeds The Fathers affirm the same Saint Irenaeus li 1. ca â— Tertull li de Paenitentia where he reprehendeth some who for humane shame fastness neglected to go to confession S Ambr sat to hear confession Amb Expaulsino S Clem Ep de fratr Dom Origen li. 3. Chrys li 3. de sacerd Saint Ambr urat in muliere peccatrice saith confesse freely to the Priest the hidden sins of thy soul We hold that men may doe works of supererogation this you deny This wee prove by Scripture Mat. 19. 12. viz. There be Eunuches which have made themselves Funuches for the Kingdome of heaven he that is able to receive it let him receive it this is more then a Commandment as Saint Aug. observes upon the place ser li. de temp for of precepts it is not said keep them who is able but keep them absolutely The Fathers are of this opinion Saint Amb. li. de viduis Orig in c. 15. ad Rom. Euseb 1. demonstrat chap. 8. Saint Chrys hom 8. de act paenit Saint Greg nicen 15. Moral chap. 5. We say we have free will you deny it we prove we have out of Scripture viz. 1 Cor. 17. He that standeth stedfast in his heart having no necessity but hath power over his own will and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin doth well Deut. 30. 11. I have set before you life and death blessing and cursing chuse life that thou and thy seed may live and Christ himself said O Jerusalem Jerusalem how often would I have gathered thy children together as a Hen gathers her Chicken yee would not where Christ would and they would not there might have been a willingnesse as well as a willing or else Christ had wept in vain and to thinke that he did so were to make him an imposture The antient Fathers are of our opinion Euseb Caesar de praep li. 1. c. 7. Saint Hilde Trin Saint Aug li. 1. ad Simp q. 4. Saint Ambr in Luc chap 12. Saint Chrys hom 19. in Gen Irenaeus li 4. ca. 72 Saint Cyril li. 4. in Joan in cap 7. c. We hold it possible to keep the Commandments you say it is impossible we have Scripture for it Luk 1 6 And they were both righteous before God walking in all the
I would faine see it and as faine confide in that of which I had reason to be confident Marq. Take Gidions three hundred men and let the rest begon King Your Lordship speaks mistically will it please you to be plaine a little Marq. Come I see I must come nearer to you Sir It is thus God expected a worke to be done by your hands but you have not answered his expectation nor his mercy towards you when your Enemies had more Cities and Garisons then you had private families to take your part when they had more Cannon then you had Muskets when the people crowded to heap treasures agaidst you whilst your Majesties friends were faine here and there to make a gathering for You when they had Navies at Sea whilst Your Majesty had not so much as a Boat upon the River whilst the odds in number against you was like a full crop against a gleaning then God wrought his miracle in making Your gleaning bigger then their vintage he put the power into your hand and made You able to declare Your self a true man to God and gratefull to Your friends but like the man whom the Prophet makes mention of who bestowed great cost and paines upon his vineyard and at last it brought forth nothing but wilde grapes so when God had done all these things for You and expected that You should have given his Church some respit to their oppressions I heard say You made vowes that if God blest You but that day with * Nazeby Fight Victory you would not leave a Catholike in Your Army for which I fear the Lord is so angry with You that I am afraid he will not give you another day wherein you may so much as trie your fortune Your Majesty had forgot the monies which came unto you from unknown hands and were brought unto you by unknown faces when yau promised you would never forsake your unknown friends you have forgotten the miracalous blessings of the Almighty upon those beginnings and how have you discountenanc'd distrusted dis-regarded I and disgraced the Catholiques all along and at last vowed an extirpation of them Doth not your Majesty see clearly how that in the two great Battailes the North and Nazeby God shewed signes of his displeasure when in the first your Enemies were even at your mercy confusion fell upon you and you lost the day like a man that should so wound his Enemies that he could scarce stand and afterwards his own sword should fly out of the hilt and leave the strong and skilfull to the mercy of his falling enemies and in the second and I fear me the last Battaile that e're you 'le fight whilst your men were crying victory as I hear they had reason so to do your sword broke in the aire which made you a fugitive to your flying enemies Sir I pray pardon my boldnesse for it is Gods cause that makes me so bold and no inclination of my own to be so and give me leave to tell you that God is angry with you and will never be pleased untill you have taken new resolutions concerning your Religion which I pray God direct you or else you 'le fall from nought to worse from thence to nothing King My Lord I cannot so much blame as pitty your zeal the soundnesse of Religion is not to be tried by dint of sword nor must we judge of her truthes by the prosperity of events for then of all men Christians would be most miserable we are not to be thought no followers of Christ by observations drawne from what is crosse or otherwise but by taking up our crosse and following Christ neither do I remember my Lord that I made any such vow before the Battaile of Nazeby concerning Catholiques but some satisfaction I did give my Protestant Subjects who on the other side were perswaded that God blest us the worse for having so many Papists in our Army Marq. The difference is not great I pray God forgive you who have most reason to aske it King I think not so my Lord. Narq Who shall be judge King I pray my Lord let us sit down and let reason take her seat Marq. Reason is no judge King But she may take her place Marq. Not above our Faith King But in our arguments Marq. I beseech your Majesty to give me a reason why you are so much offended with our Church King Truly my Lord I am much offended with your Church if you meane the Church of Rome if it were for no other reason but this for that she hath foisted into her legend so many ridiculous stories as are able to make as much as in them lies Christianitie it self a fable whereas if they had not done this wrong unto the tradition of the primative Church we then had left unto us such rare and unquestionable verities as would have adorned and not dawb'd the Gospel whereas now we know not what is true or false Marq. Sir if it be allowed to question what the Catholick Church holds out for truth because that which they hold forth unto us seemes ridiculous and to picke and chuse verities according to our own fancie and reject as novelties and forgeries what we please as impossibilities and fabulous The Scriptures themselves may as well suffer by this kind of tolleration for what more ridiculous then the Dialoge between Balaam and his Ass or that Sampsons strenght should be in his hair or that he should slay a thousand men with the Jaw-bone of an Ass The Disputation betweeen Saint Michael and the Devil about the body of Moses Philip's being taken up in the air and found at Aroties with a thousand the like strange and to our apprehension if we look upon them with carnall eyes vaine and ridiculous but being they are recorded in Scripture which Scripture we hold for truth we admire but never question them so the fault may not be in the tradition of the Church but in the libertie which men assume to themselves to question the tradition And I beseech Your Majestie to consider the streakes that are drawne over the Divine writ as so many delenda's by such bold hands as those the Testaments were not like the two Tables delivered into the hands of any Moses by the immediate hand of God neither by the Ministration of Angels but men inspired with the holy Ghost writ whose writings by the Church were approved to be by inspiration which inspirations were called Scripture which Scriptures most of them as they are now received into our hands were not received into the Cannon of the Church all within three hundred years after Christ why may not some bold spirits call all those scriptures which were afterwards acknowledged to be Scripture were not before forgeries Nay have not some such as blind as bold done it already Saint Hier was the first that ever pickt a hole in the Scriptures and cut out so many books out of the word of God with the
penknife of Apoccrypha Ruffinus challengeth him for so doing and tells him of the gap that he hath opened for wild beasts to enter into this field of the Church and tread down all ill corn Jerom gives his reasons because they were not found in the Originall Copie as if the same spirit which gave to those whom it did inspire the diversities of tongues should it self be tied to one language but withall he acknowledgeth this much of those books which he had thus markt in the forehead Canonici sunt ad informandos mores sed non ad confirmandam fidem how poor a Distinction this is and how pernitious a president this was I leave it to Your Majestie to judge for after him Luther takes the like boldness and at once takes away the three Gospels of Mark Luke and John Others take away the epistle to the Hebrews others the epistle of Saint Jude others the second and third epistles of Saint Peter others the epistle of Saint James others the whole book of the Revelation Wherefore to permit what the Church proposes to be questionable by particular men is to bring down the Church the Scriptures and the Heavens upon our heads there was a Church before there was a Scripture which Scripture as to us had not been the Word of God if the Church had not made it so by teaching us to believe it The preaching of the Gospel was before the writing of the Gospell the Divine Truth that dispersed it self over the face of the whole earth before i'ts Divinitie was comprised within the Cannon of the Scripture was like that Primeva Lux which the world received before the light was gathered into the body of the Sun this body so glorious and comfortable is but the same light which was before we cannot make it an other though it be otherwise and therefore though the Church and the Scripture like the light that is concomitant and precedent to the Sun be distinct in tearms yet they are but one the same no man can see the Sun but by it's own light shut your eyes from this light and you cannot behold the body of the Sun Shut your eyes against one and you are blind in both he never had God to be his Father who had not the Church to be his Mother if you admit Sillogismes a priori you will meet with many paralogismes a posteriori cry down the Churches Authoritie pull out the Scriptures efficacie give but the Church the lie now and then and you shall have enough will tell you the Scripture is false here and there they who have set so little by the tradition of the Church have set by halfe the Scriptures and will at last throw all away wherefore in a word as to denie any part of the Scripture were to open a vain so to question any thing which the Church proposes is to teare the seamlesse Coat of Christ and to pierce his body King My Lord I see you are better provided with Arguments then I am with memorie to run through the series of your Discourse satisfie me but in one thing and I shall soone yield to all that you have said and that is concerning this Catholick Church you talke of I know the creed tels us that we must believe it and Christ tells us that we must hear it but neither tell us that that is the Church of Rome Marq. Gratious Sir the creed tells us that it is the Catholick Church and Saint Paul tells us in his epistle to the Romans that their faith was spread abroad through the whole world King That was the Faith which the Romanes then believed which is nothing to the Roman Faith which is now believed Marq. The Romane Faith then and now are the same King I denie that my Lord. Marq. When did they alter their Faith King That requires a librarie neither is it requisite that I tell you the time when if the envious man sowes his tares whilst the husband-man was asleep and afterwards he awakes and sees the tares are they not tares because the hushand-man knowes not when they were sown Marq. And if it please Your Majestie in a thing that is so apparent your similitude holds good but in the differences between us and the protestants are not so without dispute as that it is yet granted by the major part of Christians that they are errours which we believe contrary to Your Tenents and therefore the similitude holds not but I shall humbly intreat Your Majestie to consider the proofes which the learned Cardinal Peroone hath made concerning this particular in his answer to Your Royall Father his Apologie to all Christian Princes where he proves how that all the Tenents which are in controversie now between you and us were practised in the Church of Christ within the first three hundred years wherefore I think it would be no injury to reason to require belief that that which hath been so long continued in the Church and so universaly received and no time can be set down when those Tenents or Ceremonies did arise must needs be Catholick for time and place and Apostolical for institution though we have no warrant from the Scriptures to believe them to be such For the Apostle Saint Paul commanded Timothy to keep fast the things which he had delivered unto him as well by word as by writ Wherefore if we will believe no tradition we may come at last to believe no writings King That was your own fault wherefore I blame your Church for the way to make the Scriptures not believed were to adde unto them new inventions and say they were Scriptures Marq. If the Church of Christ had so mean esteeme then as amongst some she hath now certainly the former books received into her Cannon would have been much prejudiced by the admittance of the latter wherefore if the Church be questionable then all is brought in question King My Lord you have not satisfied me where this Church is and as concerning the Cardinals book I have seen it and have read a part of it but do not remember neither do I believe that he hath prov'd that which you say Marq. It may be the proofes were in that part of the book which Your Majestie did not read and as for my proving the Romane Church to be this Church by which we should be all guided I thus shall do my endeavour That Church whose Doctrine is most Catholick and universall must be the Catholick Church but the Romane Church is such Ergo. King My Lord I denie your Minor the Romane Church is not more universall the Grecian Church is far more spreading and if it were not it were no Argument for the Church of the Mahumetanes is larger then both Marq. First This is no Argument either for an English Man or a Protestant but for a Grecian or Mahumetane not for an English Man because he received his Conversion from Rome and therefore he in Reason should not
should be so much offended at any such thing for bread and wine do signifie Christ crucified I appeale to common reason if a dead body doth not represent a passion as nuch as if we saw the bloud lie by it If you grant the Churches Power in other matters and rest satisfie therein why do you boggle at this especially when any Priest where wine is to be had if you desire it he will give it you But if upon every mans call the Church should fall to reforming upon every seeming fault which may be but supposed to be found the people would never stop untill they had made such a through Reformation in all parts as they have done in the greatest part of Germany where there is not a man to preach or hear the Gospel to eat the bread or drink the wine you never pickt so mony holes in our Coates as this licentiousness hath done in yours For our seven Sacraments she that called the Articles of our Faith 12 the Beatitudes 8 the Graces 3 the Virtues 4 called these 7 might have called them 17 if she had thought it meet A Sacrament is nothing else but what is done with a holy mind and why Sacrament either in Name or Number should be confind to Christs onely Institution I see no cause for it If I can prove that God did institute such a thing in Paradise as he did marriage shall not I call that a Sacrament as well as what was instituted by Christ when he was upon the Earth If Christ institutes the Order of giving receiving the holy Ghost shall not I call this the Sacrament of Orders If Christ injoyns us all repentance shall we not say repentance is a Sacrament If Christ blesseth little children and saith Suffer them to come unto me and forbid them not shall we not say that such Confirmation is a Sacrament Truly I do not understand their meaning They have taken away five which five either by God or Christ or the holy Ghost who are all one were instituted and yet they say they are not Sacraments because they were not instituted by Christ And the two that are left viz. baptisme and the Lords Supper for the first you hold it necessary to Salvation and for the second you do not admit the reall presence so that of the two remaining you have taken away the necessitie of the one and the reality of the other so fare well all Now for Purgatory I do believe we have as good ground for it out of this place of Scripture viz. He shall be purged yet so as if it were by fire as you can prove a Hell out of this place of Scripture He shall be cast into utter darkness and into the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone where shall be weeping and knatching of teeth Neither can you make more exceptions to our inference out of this place of Scripture to prove Purgatory then the Atheist if wits may be permitted to roame in such things as these once setled and believed generally will find ground enough to quarrell at your burning lake and the vaine Philosopher Contradictions enough in the description of the effects of those hellish Torments viz. weeping and knashing of teeth the one having its procedure from heat the other from cold which are meer Contradictions and therefore fabulous take heed we do not take away Hell in removing of Purgatory You see not how your laughing at Purgatory hath caused such laughing at Hell and Devils untill at last you shall see them bid the Heavens come down and plucke the Almightie out of his Throne If a Text of Scripture with the Churches Exposition be not sufficient for a man to rest both his Science Conscience upon I know not where it will find a resting place it may shoot at Random but never take so right an ayme and for the silver hooke you talk'd of I do not justifie the abuse of any I know there is a great difference between the Court of Rome and the Church of Rome and if these Errours were in the Church it self yet the tares must not be hastily pluckt out of the field of the Church least the wheat be pluckt up with it Now for our praying to Saints there is no body that prayes to any Saints otherwise then as we on earth desire the benefit of one anothers prayers We do not believe that they can help us of themselves or that they have power to forgive sin but we believe that they are nearer to God his favour more dear unto him and therefore we believe that he will hear them with or for us sooner then he will hear us when we pray upon our own account as we desire the prayers of some good and holy man whom we believe to be so hoping it will be a benefit unto us all that can be said against it is that they do not hear us I will not trouble Your Majestie with the Schoolmens Speculum Creatoris but I shall desire to be plaine when there is joy in heaven over every sinner that repenteth do you think that the Saints which are there are ignorant of the occasion of that joy or do they rejoyce at they know not what If the Saints in heaven do crie how long Lord how long holy and just dost thou not avenge our bloud upon them which dwell upon the earth if they know that their bloud is not yet avenged do they not know when a sinner is converted and if they know the time of conversion do they not know the time of prayer If Abraham knew that there were such men as Moses and the Prophets who was dead so many hundreds of years before their time can we say that they are ignorant think ye that those ministring Angels who are called Intelligencers give them no intelligences or that they gather nothing of intelligence by looking him in the face who is the fullness of knowledge and to all these the practise and opinion of so Catholick a Church God can onely forgive sins Christ can onely mediat but Saints whether in heaven or on the earth may intercede for one another Lastly for our worshipping of Images confounded be all they that worshipped them for me God is onely worthy to be worshipped but if I kneel before the Picture of my Saviour I worship him kneeling before his Picture the worship is in the heart and not in the knee and where the true God is in the intention there can be no idolatrie O Sir Christian Religion is not a Protestation but a Gospel it would better consist with unity then opposition we hold it a peece of popery to knocke our own breasts with the fists of constitution whilst we hold it most Evangelicall to knocke at our neighbours with a Counstables staff a pious care in a mother Church labours to educate her own daughter and having fed her at her own breasts all the gratitude she returns her mother is to call her whore
non una exors quaedam iminens detur potestas tot efficerentur in Ecclesia schismata quot Sacerdotes Wherefore I would faine find out that which the Scripture bids me hear audi Ecclesiam I would faine referre my self to that to which the Scripture commands me to appeale and tells me that if I do not I shall be a heathen and a Publican dic Ecclesiae which Church Saint Paul in his first Epistle calls the pillar and foundation of Truth of which the Propbet Ezekiel saith I will place my Sanctification in the midst of her for ever and the Prophet Esay that the Lord would never forsake her in whose light the people shall walke and Kings in the brightness of her Orient Against which our Saviour saith The gates of Hell shall not pervaile with whom our Saviour saith he would be alwayes unto the end of the world And from whom the Spirit of Truth should never depart For although the Psalmist tells us that the word of the Lord is clear inlightning the eyes yet the same Prophet said to God Enlighten mine eyes that I may see the marveils of thy Law And Saint John tells us that the book of God had seven Seales and it was not every one that was thought worthy to open it onely the lambe The Disciples had been ignorant if Jesus had not opened the Scriptures unto them The Eunuch could not understood them without an Interpreter and Saint Peter tels us that the Scripture is not of private Interpretation and that in his brother Pauls epistles there are many things hard to be understood which ignorant and light-headed-men wrest to their own perdition Wherefore though as Saint Chrysostom saith Omnia clara sunt plana exscripturis divinis quaecunque necessaria sunt manifesta sunt yet no man ever hath yet defined what are necessary and what not What points are fundamentall and what are not fundamentall Necessary to Salvation is one thing and necessary for knowledge as an improvement of our faith is an other thing for the first if a man keeps the Commandments and believes all the Articles of the Creed he may be saved though he never read a word of Scripture but much more assuredly if he meditates upon Gods word with the Psalmist day and night But if he meanes to walk by the rule of Gods word and to search the Scriptures he must lay hold upon the means that God hath ordained whereby he may attain unto the true understanding of them for as Saint Paul saith God hath placed in the Church Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Doctors to the end we should be no more little children blowen about with every wind of Doctrine therefore it is not for babes in understanding to take upon them to understand those things wherein so great a Prophet as the Prophet David confessed the darkness of his own ignorance And though it be true the Scripture is a river through which a lambe may wade and an Elephant may swim yet it is to be supposed and understood that the lambe must wade but onely through where the river is foordable It doth not suppose the river to be all alike in depth for such a river was never heard of but there may be places in the river where the lambe may swim as well as the Elephant otherwise it is impossible that an Elephant should swim in the same depth where a lambe may wade though in the same river he may neither is it the meaning of that place that the child of God may wade through the Scripture without directions help or Judges but that the meanest capacitie qualified with a harmeless innocence and desirous to wade through that river of living waters to eternal life may find so much of Comfort and heavenly knowledge there easily to be obtained that he may easily wade through to his eternal Salvation and that there are also places in the same river wherein the highest speculations may plunge themselves in the deep misteries of God Wherefore with pardon crav'd for my presumption in holding Your Majestie in so tedious a discourse as also for my boldness in obtruding my opinion which is except as incomparable Hooker in his Ecclesiasticall pollicy hath well observed the Churches Authority be required herein as necessary hereunto we shall be so far from agreeing upon the true meaning of the Scripture that the outward letter sealed with the inward witness of the Spirit being all hereticks have quoted Scripture and pretended Spirit will not be a warrant sufficient enough for any private man to judge so much as the Scripture to be Scripture or the Gospel it self to be the Gospel of Christ This Church being found out and her Authority allowed of all controversies would be soon decided and although we allow the Scripture to be the lock upon the door which is Christ yet we must allow the Church to be the Key that must open it as Saint Ambrose in his 38. Sermon calls the agreement of the Apostles in the Articles of our beliefe Clavis Scripturae one of whose Articles is I believe the holy Catholick Church As the Lion wants neither strength nor courage nor power nor weapons to seize upon his prey yet he wants a nose to find it out wherefore by naturall instinct he takes to his assistants the little Jack-call a quick sented beast who runs before the Lion and having found out the prey in his language gives the Lion notice of it who soberly untill such time as he fixes his eyes upon the bootie makes his advance but once comming within view of it with a more speed then the swiftest running can make hast he jumps upon it and seizes it Now to apply this to our purpose Christ crucified is the main substance of the Gospel according to the Apostles saying I desire to know nothing but Jesus and him crucified This crucified Christ is the nourishment of our soules according to our Saviours own words Vbi Cadaver ibi aquilae Thereby drawing his Disciples from the curious speculation of his body glorified to the profitable meditation of his body crucified It is the prey of the Elect the dead Carkes feedeth the Eagles Christ crucified nourisheth his Saints according to Saint Johns saying except we eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his bloud we have no life in us him we must mastigate and chew by faith traject and convey him into our hearts as nutriment by meditation and digest him by Coalition whereby we grow one with Christ and Christ becomes one with us according to that saying of Tertullian auditu devorandus est intellectu ruminandus fide digerendus Now for the true understanding of the Scriptures which is no other thing then the finding out of Jesus and him crucified who is the very life of the Scriptures which body of Divinitie is nourished with no other food and all its vaines fil'd with no other bloud though this heavenly food the Scripture have neither force nor
and this not onely is but must be the meaning of Saint Gregory for he thus explicates the matter himself lib. 4. ind 13. ep 32. viz. The Care of the Church hath been committed to the Prince of all the Apostles Saint Peter and yet had Saint Peter called himself the Vniversall Apostle in the first sence seeing that Christ Jesus made other Apostles as well as him he had been no Apostle himself but Antichrist and yet this hindred not but that the care and principality was committed unto Peter Whereby you may plainly see how he ascribes a head-ships over the Church whilst he denies the Vniversalitie of Episcopacie Wherefore having shewed Your Majestie my Church I humbly beg that You will be pleased either to give me a few lines in answer hereunto or else to shew me Yours The Kings Paper in answer to the Marquess MY Lord I have perused your Paper whereby I find that it is no strange thing to see error triumph in antiquitie and florish all those ensigns of Universality Succession Unitie Conversion of Nations c. in the face of truth and nothing was so familiar either with the Jews or Gentiles as to besmeare the face of truth with spots of noveltie for this was Jeremiahs case Jerem 44. 16. viz. As for the word which thou hast spoken unto us in the Name of the Lord we will not hearken unto thee but we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouths to burn incense unto the Queen of heaven and to powre out drink-offering unto her as we have done we and our fathers our Kings and our Princes in the Cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem as we have done there is Antiquitie we and our fathers there is Succescession In the Cities of Judah and Jerusalem there is Universalitie so Demetrius urged Antiquitie and Universality for his goddes Diana viz. That her temple should not be despised nor her Magnificence destroyed whom all Asia and the world worshipped So Symacchus that wise Senator though a bitter enemie to the Christians Servanda est inquit tot seculis fides sequendi sunt nobis parentes qui feliciter sequuti sunt suos we must defend that Religion which hath worne out so many ages and follow our Fathers steps who have so happily followed theirs So Prudentius would have put back Christianitie it self viz. Nunc dogma nobis Christianum nascitur post evolutos mille demum Consules Now the Christian Doctrine begins to spring up after the revolution of a thousand Consul-ships But Ezekiel reads us another lecture Ne obdurate cervices vestras ut patres vestri cedite manum Jehovae ingredimini sanctuarium ejus quod sanctificavit in saeculum colite Jehovam Deum vestrum Be not stiff necked as your forefathers were resist not the mightie God enter into his sanctuarie which he hath consecrated for ever and worship yee the Lord your God Radbodus King of Phrygia being about to be baptized asked the Bishop what was become of all his ancestors who were dead without being baptized The Bishop answered that they were all in hell whereupon the King suddenly withdrew himself from the font saying Ibi profecto me illis Comitem adjungam Thither will I go unto them no lesse wise are they who had rather erre with fathers and Councels then rectifie their understanding by the word of God and square their faith according to its rules Our Saviour Christ saith we must not so much hearken to what has been said by them of old time Matth. 21. 12. as to that which he shall tell you where Auditis dictum esse antiquitis is exploded and Ego dico vobis is come in its place which of them all can attribute that credit to be given unto him as is to be given to Saint Paul Yet he would not have us to be followers of him more then he is a follower of Christ 1 Cor. 11. 1. Wherefore if you crie never so loud Sancta mater Ecclesia sancta mater Ecclesia the holy mother Church holy mother Church as of old they had nothing to say for themselves but Templum Domini Templum Domini the Temple of the Lord the Temple of the Lord we will crie as loud again with the Prophet Quomodo facta est meretrix Vrbs fidelis how is the faithfull Citie become a harlot if you vaunt never so much of your Roman Catholick Church we can tell you out of Saint John that she is become the Synagogue of Sathan neither is it impossible but that the house of prayers may be made a Den of theeves you call us hereticks we answer you with Saint Paul Act. 24. 14. After the way which you call heresie so worship we the God of our fathers believing all things which were written in the Law and the Prophets I will grant you that all those marks which you have set done are marks of the true Church and I will grant you more that they were belonging to the Church of Rome but then you must grant me thus much that they are as well belonging to any other Church who hold and maintain that doctrine which the Church of Rome then maintained when she wrought those conversions and not at all to her if she have changed her first love and fallen from her old principles for it will do her no good to keep possession of the keyes when the lock is changed now to try whether she hath done so or no there can be no better way then by searching the Scriptures for though I grant you that the Catholick Church is the white in that butt of earth at which we all must aim yet the Scripture is the heart centre or peg in the midst of that white that holds it up from whence wee must measure especially when wee are all in the white We are all of us in gremio Ecclesiae so that controversies cannot be decided by the Catholick Chruch but by the Scriptures which is the thing by which the nearnes unto truth must be decided for that which must determine truth must not be fallible but whether you mean the consent of Fathers or the decrees of generall Counsels they both have erred I discover no Fathers nakednesse but deplore their infirmities that we should not trust in armes of flesh Tertullian was a montanist Cyprian a rebaptist Origin an Anthropomorphist Heirom a Monoganist Nazianzen an Angelist Eusebius an Arrian Saint Augustine had written so many errors as occasioned the writing of a whole book of retractaions they have often times contradicted one another and some times themselves Now for generall Counsels Did not that Concilium Ariminense conclude for the Arrian heresie Did not that Concilium Ephesinum conclude for the Eutichian heresie Did not â—hat Concilium Carthaginense conclude 〈◊〉 not lawfull for Priests to marry Was not Athanasius condemned In … cilio Tyrio Was not Eiconolatria established In concilio Nicaeno secundo What should I say more when the Apostles
Tom 2. Germ fol 190. 200. No marvail that he saith that he had eaten a peck or two of Salt with the Devil and that he knew the Devil very well and that the Devil knew him again h Luth conc de turb sedant No marvail that he confessed of himselfe that the Devil sometimes passed through his brains i Tom 3. Ien Germ fol 485. No marvail that he said the Devil did more frequently sleep with him and cling to him closer then his catharine k Luth Colloq mens Germ fol 281. No marvail that he said that the Devil walked with him in his bed-chamber and that he had one or two wonderfull Devils by whom he was diligently and carefully served and they no small Devils but great ones yea Doctors of divinity amongst the Devils l Luth. 16. fol 275. No marvell that his fellow Prot. could wonder how marvelously he bewrayed himselfe with his Devils and that he could use such filthy words so replenished with all the Devils in Hell m Tigur tract 3 cont supra Luth confessio No marvell that they said that never any man writ more filthily more uncivilly more lewdly and beyond all bounds of Christian modesty then did Luther n Tigur theol Orthod confess fol 10. No marvell that he is so taxed for his obsceanity in his Henzius Anglicus against King Hen. the eight for his beastlinesse in his Hans worst against the Jewes for his filthy mentioning of Hogs for his stincking repetition of turds and dunghils in his Schemhamphorise But if you will hear of his master piece you must read the Booke which he writ against the Pope where he asks him out of what mouth O Pope dost thou speak is it out of that from whence thy farts do burst If it come thence keep it to thy self if it comes from that wherein thou powrest thy Corifca wine let the Dog fill that with his excrements good Asse doe not kick kick not my little Pope O my dear Asse doe not so fie how this little Pope hath bewrayed himself o Luth cont pontif Rom adiab fund in tom 8. Jen p 207 208. Is this the way to win to his side or to gaine souls to Christ or to reform Churches or to confute heresies It is observed that Saint Paul in his Epistles repeated the sacred name of Jesus 500 times and it is the observation of the learned Tygurin Divines that so many times Luther hath used the name of Devil in his Bookes and it is no marvail that they burst out into this admiration How wonderfull is Luther here with his Devils what impure words he useth with how many Devils doth he burst p Theol Tigur confess Germ fol 3. part 3 fol 114 Nor marvail that Zwinglius saith to him we fill not our Books with somany Devils nor doe we bring so many armies of Devils against thee q Zwing tom 2 fol 381 If you can expect to gather figges from thorns or grapes from thistles then ye may expect words from a sanctified spirit to proceed from such a mouth else not What should I say more Melancthon tels us that Carolostadius was a barbarous fellow without wit without learning without common sense in whom was no sign of the holy Ghost but manifest tokens of impiety r Melanct Epist ad freder micon Hosp hist Sac. Lastly Hutterus Beza's own fellow Protestant thus saies of him and casts this dirt in his face which is so shamelesse a testimony that you must give me leave to throw a latine vail over it viz. Beza in fine libri de absentia corporis Christi in coena scribit Candidae sive Amascae suae culum imo partem diversam magis adhuc pudendam mundiora esse quam illorum ora qui simpliciter verbis Christi inherentes credant se praesens Christi Corpus in coena sacra ore suo accipere Å¿ Hut exblic lib concord art 7. p. 703. And another Beza by his most filthy manners was a disgrace to honest Discipline who in sacrilegious verse published to the world his detestable loves his unlawfull carnall acts whoredoms and fowl adulteries not content that himself only should like a hog wallow in the durt of wicked lusts but he must also polute the ears of studious youth with his filth t Tilm. Heshus Ver. Sanc. Conf. I could inlarge my Paper to a volume of like instances in others but these are the prime reformers of the Protestant Churches and how the people edified under their Doctrine these Narratives from their own mouthes shall tell you When we were seduc'd by the Pope saith Luther every man did willingly follow good works and now every man neither saith nor knoweth any thing but how to get all to himself by exactions pillage theft lying usury u Luth. Dom. 26. post Trin. See Mr. Stubs motive to good works p. 44. 45. Certainly to speak the truth there is many times found Conscionabler and plainer dealing amongst most Papists then among many Protestants And if we look narrowly to the ages past we shall find more godlines devotion and zeal though blind more love one toward another more fidelity and faithfulness every way in them then is now to be found in us a Mr. Stubs motive pag. 43. If any man be desirous to see a great rabble of knaves of persons turbulent deceitfull Coseners Usurers let him go to any Citie where the Gospel is purely preached and he shall find them there by multitudes For it is more manifest then the day light that there were never among the Ethnicks Turks or infidels more unbridled and unruly persons with whom all virtue and honesty is quite extinct then are amongst the Professours of the Gospel b Andr. Muscul Domin 1. Adv. See him also li. de Prophet Sim. Paulus in Serm. Dom. 13. post Trinit The children of them of the reformed Gospel grow every day worse more untractable and dare commit such crimes as men of former times were never subject to c Jo Wygand l de bon mal Germ If you cast your eyes upon Protestant Doctours you shall find that some of them moved through vain glory envious zeal and a prejudicate opinion disorder the true Doctrine disperse and earnestly defend the false some of them without cause stir up contentions and with inconsiderate spight defend them many wrest their doctaines every way of purpose to please their Princes and the people by whose grace and favour they are maintained they overthrow with their wicked life all that they had formerly built with their true doctrine d Paul Eber praefat comm Philippi in Epist ad Cor How could the people be better when their Ministers were so bad like lips like lettice I will conclude all with the learned Protestant Zanchius and then you will neither wonder at one or other I have read saith he the Latine copy of the Apology and
diligently read it over not without choller when I perceived what manner of writing very many let me not say for the most part but all doe use in the Churches of the reformed Gospel who would seeme notwithstanding to be Pastors Doctors and Pillars of the Church The state of the question that it may not be understood we often of set purpose over-cloud with darknesse things which are manifest we impudently deny things false we without shame avouch things plainly impious we propose as the first principles of faith things orthodoxall we condemn of heresie Scripture at our pleasure we detort to our own dreams we boast of Fathers when we will follow nothing lesse then their doctrine to deceive to calumniate to rail is familiar with us so as we may befend our cause good or bad by right or by wrong all other things we turne upside down Oh times Oh manners e Zanch epist ap Jo Sturm this in fine Ii 7. 8. Missellan It is no marvell that Mr. Sutcliff saies that the Protestant writers offered great violence to the Scriptures expounding them contrary both to antient Fathers History and common reason f Sutclif answ Cal pet p. 141. It is no marvell that Cambden tels us that Holland is a fruitfull province of heretiques g Elizah p 300 It is no marvell that Your royall Father tels us that both Hungary and Bohemea abound with infinite varieties of sects h King James his Works p 371. It is no marvell that he said he could never see a Bible well translaed into English and that the worst of all was the Geneva whereunto were added notes untrue seditious and savoring too much of dangerous and traiterous conceits i Page 45 46. It is no marvell that He protested before the great God that you should never find among the Highland or Border theeves greater ingratitude more lies and vile perjuries then with those phanatick spirits k King James his Works p. 161. It is no marvel that M. Bancroft said that the puritans of Scotland were published in a Declaration by His Majestie to be un-naturall Subjects seditious troublesome and unquiet spirits members of Sathan enemies to the King and the Common-wealth of their owne native Country l Dang posit 2â— And lastly because your Church of England most followed Calvins doctrine of any of the rest I shall shew you what end he made answerable to his beginning and course of life written by two known and appoved Protestant Authors viz. God in the rod of his fury visiting Calvin did horribly punish him before the fearfull hour of his unhappy death for he so struck this heretick with his mighty hand that being in dispair and calling upon the Devil he gave up his wicked soul swearing cursing and blaspheming dying upon the disease of lyce and wormes increasing in a most loathsome ulcer about his privie parts so as none present could endure the stentch these things are objected unto Calvin in publick writing in which also horrible things are declared concerning his lasciviousnesse his sundry abhominable vices and Sodomiticall lusts for which last he was by the Magistrate at Nayon under whom he lived branded on the shoulder with a hot burning iron And this is said of him by Schlusberg m Theolog. Calvinist li. 2. fol. 72. She which is likewise confirmed by Joh. Herennius n lide vita Calvini It may be your Majestie may taxe me of bitternesse or for the discovery of nakednesse But I hope you will give me leave to look what staff I leane upon when I am to look down upon so great terrible a precipice as hell and to consider the rottennesse of the severall rounds of that ladder which is proposed to me for my ascent unto heaven and to forewarne others of the dangers I espie their own words can be none of my railing nor their own accusations my errour except it be a fault to take notice of what is published and make use of what I see Ex ore tuo was our Saviours rule and shall be mine There hath not been used one Catholick Author throughout the accusation and I take it to be the providence of God that they should be thus infatuated as to accuse one another that good men may take heed how they rely upon such mens Judgements in order to their eternall Salvation As to Your Majesties Objection that we of the Church of Rome fell away from our selves and that you did not fall away from us as also to the common saying of all Protestants bidding us to returne to our selves and they will return to us we accept of their offer we will do so that is to say we will hold our selves to the same Doctrine which the Church of Rome held before she converted this Nation to Christianity and then they cannot say we fell away from them or from our selves whilst we maintaine the same Doctrine we held before you were of us that is to say whilst we maintain'd the same Doctrine that we maintained during the four first Councels acknowledged by most Protestants and during Saint August time concerning whom Luther himself acknowledged that after the sacred Scriptures there is no Doctour of the Church to be compared a Luth. loc com Class 4. p. 45. thereby excluding himself and all his associats from being preferd before him concerning whom Mr. Field of the Church writes that Saint Aug. was the greatest Father since the Apostles b li. 3. fol. 170. Concerning whom Covel writs that he did shine in learning above all that ever did or will appear c Covel in his answ to Jo. Burges Concerning whom Jewell appeals as to a true and orthodox Doctor d In his challenge at Pauls Cross Concerning whom Mr. Forrester Non. Tessagraph cals him the Fathers Monarch e In proem p. 3. and Concerning whom Gomer acknowledges his opinion to be most pure f Gom. spec verae Eccles Concerning whom Mr. Whitaker doubts not but that he was a Protestant g Whit. answ to f. Camp in the cont fol. a. 2. parag 28. And lastly concerning whom Your royall Father seemed to appeal when he objected unto Card. Peron that the face exteriour form of the Church was changed since his time and far different to what it was in his dayes wherefore we will take a view of what it was then and see whether we lose or keep our ground and whether it be the same which you acknowledged then to be so firm Our Church believed then a true and reall presence and the orall manducation of the body of Christ in the Sacrament as the prince of the Sacramentarians acknowledged a Zwingl li. de vera falsa relig cap. de Eucharist in these words from the time of Saint Augustin which was for the space of twelve hundred years the opinion of corporal flesh had already got the masterie And in this quality she adored the Eucharist
enclosure of brotherly affection d Cant. 4. 12. Cant. 2. 1. Will you forsake the Rose of Sharon and the Lillie of the Vallies for such a nose-gay for I shall make it apparent unto Your Majestie that the Doctrines which Protestants now hold as in opposition unto us were but so many condemned heresies by the antient and orthodoxall Fathers of the Church and never opposed by any of them as for example Protestants hold that the Church may erre this they had from the Donatists for which they were frequently reproved by St. Augustin a Passim cont Donat. Protestants denie unwritten traditions and urge Scripture onely This they had from the Arrians who were condemned for it by St. Epiphanius and St. Augustin both b Epiph. Her 75. Aug cont maxim li 1. c. 2. ult Protestants teach that Priests may marry this they had from Vigilantius who is condemned for it by St. Hieronimus c Con. Vigilan c. 1. Protestants denie Prayer for the dead this they had from Arrius for which he is condemned by St. August and Epiphanius both d Aug haer 53. Epiphan haer 75. Protestants denie Invocation of Saints this they had from Vigilantius for which he was condemned by St. Hieron e Hic Cont Vigil c. 3. Protestants denie Reverence to Images this they had from Xenias for which he is reproved by Nicephorus f Hist li 16. c. 27. Protestants denie the reall Presence this they had from the Carpenaites who were saith St. Augustin the first Hereticks that denied the reall Presence and that Judas was the first Suborner and Maintainer of this heresie g Aug in Psal 54. and 55. Protestants denie Confession of sins to a Priest so did the Novatian Hereticks and the Montanists for which they are reproved by St. Ambrose and St. Hieron h Ambr i de poenit c. 7. Hier Epist ad Marcle 54. Protestants say that they are justified by Faith onely this they had from the pseudo-Apostles for which they are condemned by St. Augustin i Aug de fide oper c. 14. Lastly as I have shewed Your Majestie that Your Church as it stands in opposition to ours is but a congeries of so many heresies to which I could easily make an enlargement but that I fear I have been too tedious already So I shall make it appear that our Church as she stands in opposition unto yours is true and right even your selves being witnesses you shall find our Doctrine among your own Doctors First the Greek Church whom you court to your side as indeed they are Protestants according to your vulgar reception being you call all those Protestants who are or were in any Opposition to the Church of Rome though in their Tenents otherwise they never so much do disagree For the Greek Church with which you so often hit us in the teeth and take to be of your faction she holds Invocation of Saints Adoration of Images Transubstantiation Communion in one kind for the sick and many others Master Parker confesseth that Luther crossed himself morning and evening and is never seen to be painted praying but before a Crucifix a Against Simb part 1. C. 2. sect 30. p. 105. See Jo Crevel refut Cerem miss p. 188 Jo Manl Loc Com. p. 636. As touching the Invocation of Saints saith Luther I think with the whole Christian Church and hould that Saints are to be honoured by us and invocated b Purgat quorund art in Ep ad Georg. Spal Inever denied Purgatorie saith Luther and yet I believe it as I have often written and confessed c Tom 7. fol 132. adversus bullam See him also in disp Lips c. de purgat resolut de indulg Conclus 16. See likewise Zwingl Tom 2. fol. 378. If it is lawfull saith Luther for the Jewes to have the picture of Caesar upon their Coins much more is it lawfull for Christians to have in their Churches Crosses and Images of Mary d Luth in Consolat prolab Ii 6. See this cited forth of Luth by Hasp Hist Sac p. 2. f. 33. and lastly he maintained the reall Presence e See Zwingl Tom. 2. fol 375. f p. 2. 16. g Pag 209. But let us go a little further and consider what they held whom ye call your Predecessours under whom ye shroud your Visibility and on whom you look beyond Luther for your Doctrines Patronage viz. First upon the Hussites who brake forth about the year 1400. they held seven Sacraments f Transsubstantiation g the Popes primacy h Pag 217. art 7 8. and the Mass i Luth in Colloq Germ c. de missa as Fox in his acts and monuments acknowledgeth Let us go further and consider Wickliffe our own Countrey-man who appeared about the year 1370. he maintained holy water k Wick de blasphem cap 17. worship of Reliques and Images l Idem de Eucharist c. 9. Intercession of the blessed Virgin Mary m Idem in Ser. de Assump Mariae the rites and Ceremonies of the Mass n Idem de apostasia c. 18. all the seven Sacraments o Idem in postill sup c. 15. Marci Moreover he held Opinions contrary and condemned both by Catholick and Protestants as that if a Bishop or Priest be in any mortall sin his Ordaining Consecrating or Baptising is of no effect p Acts and mon p. 96. a art 4. He condemned lawfull Oaths with the Anabaptists q Osiand Epist Hist Eccles p. 459. art 43. Lastly he maintained that any Ecclesiasticall Ministers were not to have any temporall possessions r Act mon p. 96. This last Opinion was such savoury Doctrine that rather then some of those times would not hearken to that they would listen to all as the greedy appetites to Bishops Lands make some now a dayes to hearken unto any thing that Cryers down of Bishops shall foment To go further yet to the Waldenses descended from the race of one Waldo a Marchant of Lions who brake out about the year 1220. These men held the reall Presence Å¿ In Epist 244. p. 450. for which they were reproved by Calvin These men extolled the merit of voluntary poverty they held Transubstantiation t Illiricus Catalog Test p. 1498. and many other opinions which most Protestants no way allow And lastly I shall run your pedegree to the radix and utmost Derivation that the best read Herauld in the Protestant Genealogy can run its line and that is to the Waldenses and to Berengarius who broacht his heresie in the year 1048. and he held all the points of Doctrine that we held onely he differed from us in the point of Transubstantiation And for this cause they took u Idem Catalog Test pag. 1502. him into the name and number of Protestants and Reformers nothwithstanding he presently afterwards recanted and died a Catholick So it ends where it never had beginning Finally if neither prescription of 1600 years possession and continuance of our Churches Doctrine nor our evidence out of the word of God nor the Fathers witnessings to that evidence nor the Decrees of Councels nor your own acknowledgements Be sufficient to mollifie and turne your royall heart there is no more meanes left for truth or me but I must leave it to God in whose hand are the hearts of Kings THis Paper was finished and delivered into His Majesties hands at a very unfit time either for perusall or answer being at the time when Bristoll was delivered up unto the Parliament and the Court in great distraction the King being in a study rather to know which way to goe then how to answer papers Yet His Majesty vouchsafed to run over the leaves rather then the lines with His eye and finding the Paper of some length and full of Quotations His Majesty said To answer this Paper requires a great deale of that which I want and that is time besides I perceive that to make due enquiry into these particulars it will require a great deale of search which if leisure would give leave I believe industry might find a great deale of foul play and mis-quotations Oxford would have been a fitter place for me then Ragland Castle to have entertain'd such an Incounter where the same place that is my Souldiers quarters is his Jesuites Colledge yet I pray tell him I returne his Paper to him againe and shall take another time to answer it when opportunity shall give me leave To morrow I shal ease his Lordship of a heavy burthen and this day will be time little enough for us to consider what course we are to take I prayed God to bless His Majesty in all His wayes and to direct Him in all His consultations The King having as it seem'd fixt His eye upon that place in my Lords Paper where he charged Luther for saying that he received his Doctrine from the Devil asked me what was Luthers meaning thereby or whither or no Luther said any such thing Whereunto I made answer that to my knowledge Luther had written so but I believed his meaning was as elsewhere he said Diabolus me Christianum fecit that having received many combates by the suggestions of the Devil deterring him from undertaking so great a weight as Reformation and having resisted those temptations and at last overcome them he became a better Scholler in the Schoole of Christ and Souldier in that spiritual warfare The King said Luther was a bold man and such high spirits sometimes take a pride to fight against common sence as if it were the common enemy Whereupon some of the Lords came in and I took my leave of His Majesty FINIS Errata PAge 2. lin 19. for Crown read Crosier Pag. 29. l. 8. for Aroties r. Azotus Pag. 54. l. 13. for it necessarie r. it not necessary Pag. 58. l. 23. for constitution r. contrition Pag. 64. l. 12. del two Pag. 91. l. 15. for Apostolicall r. Analogicall and l. 22. for invisibility r. visibility P. 111. l. 12. r. Audistis dictum esse antiquis Pag. 151. l. 21. for inferiour r. interiour Pag. 199. l. 18. for hiddenly r. suddenly
you deny it we say his body is there you say there is nothing but bare bread we have Scripture for it Mat. 20. 26. Take eat this is my body so Luke 22. 19. This is my body which is given for you You say that the bread which we must eat in the Sacrament is but dead bread Christ saith that that bread is living bread you say how can this man give us his flesh to eat we say that that was the objection of Jewes and Infidels 1 John 6. 25. not of Christians and believers you say it was spoken figuratively we say it was spoken really revera or as we translate it indeed John 6. 55. But as the Jewes did so do ye first murmur that Christ should be bread John 6. 41. Secondly that that bread should be flesh John 6. 52. And thirdly that that flesh should be meat indeed John 6. 55. untill at last you cry out with the unbelievers this is a hard saying who can hear it John 6. 60. had this been but a figure certainly Christ would have removed the doubt when he saw them so offended at the reallity Joh. 6. 61. He would not have confirmed his saying in terminis with promise of a greater wonder John 6. 62. you may as well deny his incarnation his ascention and ask â—ow could the man come down from heaven and go up again if incomprehensibility should be sufficient to occasion such scruples in your breasts and that which is worse then naught you have made our Saviours conclusion an argument against the premises for where our Saviour tels them thus to argue according unto flesh and bloud in these words the flesh profiteth nothing and that if they will be enlivened in their understanding they must have faith to believe it in these words it is the Spirit that quickneth John 6. 63. They pervert our Saviours meaning into a contrary sense of their own imagination viz. the flesh profiteth nothing that is to say Christs body is not in the Sacrament but it the Spirit that quickneth that is to say we must onely believe that Christ dyed for us but not that his body is there as if there were any need of so many inculcations pressures offences mis-believings of and in a thing that were no more but a bare memoriall of a thing being a thing nothing more usuall with the Israelites as the twelve stones which were errected as a sign of the children of Israels passing over Jordan That when your children shall ask their Fathers what is meant thereby then ye shall answer them c. Josh 4. there would not have been so much difficulty in the belief if there had not been more in the mystery there would not have been so much offence taken at a memorandum nor so much stumbling at a figure The Fathers are of this opinion Saint Ignat. in Ep ad Smir. Saint Justin Apol 2. ad Antonium Saint Cyprian Ser. 4. de lapsis Saint Ambr. lib. 4. de Sacram. Saint Remigius c. affirm the flesh of Christ to be in the Sacrament and the same flesh which the word of God took in the Virgins wombe Secondly We hold tbat there is in the Church an infallible rule for understanding of Scripture besides the Scripture it self this you deny this we have Scripture for as Rom. 12 16. we must prophesie according to the rule of faith we are bid to walke according to this rule Gal. 6. 16. we must encrease our faith and preach the Gospel according to this rule 1 Cor. 10. 15 this rule of faith the holy Scriptures call a form of doctrine Romans 6. 17. a thing made ready to our hands 2. Cor. 10. 16. that we may not measure our selves by our selves 2 Cor. 10. 12. the depositions committed to the Churches trust 1 Tim. 6. 20. for avoiding of prophane and vain bablings and oppositions of sciences and by this rule of faith is not meant the holy Scriptures for that cannot do it as the Apostle tels us whilst there are unstable men who wrest this way and that way to their own destruction but it is the tradition of the Church and her exposition as it is delivered from hand to hand as most plainly appears 2 Tim. 2. 2. viz. The things which thou hast heard of us not received in writing from me or others among many witnesses the same commit thou to faithfull men who shall be able to teach it to others also Of this opinion are the Fathers Saint Irenaeus 4. chap. 45. Tertull de praescr and Vnicent lir in suo commentario saith It is very needfull in regard of so many errors proceeding from mis-interpretations of Scripture that the line of propheticall and Apostolicall exposition should be directed according to the rule of the Ecclesiasticall and Catholike sense and saith Tertullian praescript advers haeres chap. 11. We do not admit our adversaries to dispute out of Scripture till they can shew who their Ancestors were and from whom they received the Scriptures for the ordinary course of doctrine requires that the first question should be from whom and by whom and to whom the form of Christian Religion was delivered otherwise prescribing against him as a stranger for otherwise if a heathen should come by the Bible as the Eunuch came by the Prophesie of Esay and have no Philip to enterpret it unto him he would find out a Religion rather according to his own fancy then divine verritie In matters of faith Christ bids us to observe and doe whatsoever they bid us who fit in Moses seat Mat. 22. 2. therefore surely there is something more to be observed then only Scripture will you not as well believe what you hear Christ say as what ye hear his Ministers write you hear Christ when you hear them as well as you read Christ when you read his word He that heareth you heareth me Luke 10. 16. We say the Scriptures are not easie to be understood you say they are we have Scripture for it as is before manifested at large the Fathers say as much Saint Irenaeus lib. 2. chap. 47. Origen contr Cels and Saint Ambr. Epist 44. ad Constant calleth the Scripture a Sea and depth of propheticall riddles and Saint Hier. in praefat comment in Ephes and Saint Aug Epist 119. chap 21 saith The things of holy Scripture which I know not are more then those that I know and Saint Denis Bishop of Corinth cited by Eusebius lib. 7. hist. Eccles 20. saith of the Scriptures that the matter thereof was far more profound then his wit could reach We say that this Church cannot erre you say it can we have Scripture for what we say such Scripture that will tell you that fools cannot erre therein Esaiah 35. 8. such Scripture as will tell you if you neglect to hear it you shall be a heathen and a publican Mat. 18. 17. such Scripture as will tell you that this Church shall be unto Christ a glorious Church a Church that shall be