thing_n provide_v you_o do_v not_o call_v it_o a_o sacrifice_n so_o again_o haeres_fw-la 79._o beside_o his_o put_v cunning_o ipsa_fw-la fuit_fw-la which_z before_o we_o take_v notice_n of_o he_o make_v no_o scruple_n to_o put_v in_o dogma_fw-la and_o sacrificium_fw-la wheresoever_o it_o may_v be_v for_o his_o purpose_n epiphanius_n his_o title_n to_o this_o heresy_n be_v against_o the_o collyridians_n who_o offer_v to_o mary_n petavius_n put_v in_o sacrifice_n again_o in_o the_o same_o page_n before_o d._n he_o put_v in_o his_o own_o illo_fw-la dogmate_n and_o whereas_o epiphanius_n say_v in_o all_o this_o he_o make_v it_o in_o all_o this_o opinion_n pag._n 1061._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d he_o translate_v this_o womanish_a opinion_n whereas_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d though_o perhaps_o it_o may_v signify_v a_o thought_n or_o act_v of_o think_v yet_o i_o believe_v it_o never_o signify_v a_o opinion_n which_o we_o hold_v ibid._n at_o b._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o he_o render_v this_o opinion_n pag._n 1064._o at_o c._n nor_o that_o we_o shall_v offer_v to_o her_o name_n simple_o and_o absolute_o he_o make_v it_o nor_o that_o we_o shall_v offer_v sacrifice_n to_o her_o name_n so_o many_o time_n be_v he_o fain_o to_o corrupt_v and_o translate_v he_o partial_o lest_o in_o condemn_v the_o collyridians_n he_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v involve_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o the_o same_o condemnation_n my_o seven_o and_o last_o reason_n be_v this_o have_v epiphanius_n know_v that_o the_o collyridians_n hold_v the_o virgin_n mary_n to_o be_v a_o sovereign_a power_n and_o deity_n than_o he_o can_v not_o have_v doubt_v whether_o this_o their_o offering_n be_v to_o she_o or_o to_o god_n for_o she_o whereof_o yet_o he_o seem_v doubtful_a and_o not_o full_o resolve_v as_o his_o own_o word_n intimate_v haeres_fw-la 79._o ad_fw-la fin_n quam_fw-la multa_fw-la etc._n etc._n how_o many_o thing_n may_v be_v object_v against_o this_o heresy_n for_o idle_a woman_n either_o worship_v the_o bless_a virgin_n offer_v unto_o she_o a_o cake_n or_o else_o they_o take_v upon_o they_o to_o offer_v for_o she_o this_o foresay_a ridiculous_a oblation_n now_o both_o be_v foolish_a and_o from_o the_o devil_n these_o argument_n i_o suppose_v do_v abundant_o demonstrate_v to_o any_o man_n not_o viel_v with_o prejudice_n that_o epiphanius_n impute_v not_o to_o the_o collyridians_n the_o heresy_n of_o believe_v the_o virgin_n mary_n god_n and_o if_o they_o do_v not_o think_v she_o god_n there_o be_v then_o no_o reason_n imaginable_a why_o their_o oblation_n of_o a_o cake_n shall_v not_o be_v think_v a_o present_a as_o well_o as_o the_o papist_n offer_v a_o taper_n or_o that_o the_o papist_n offer_v a_o taper_n shall_v not_o be_v think_v a_o sacrifice_n as_o well_o as_o their_o offering_n a_o cake_n and_o see_v this_o be_v the_o difference_n pretend_v between_o they_o this_o be_v vanish_v there_o remain_v none_o at_o all_o so_o that_o my_o first_o conclusion_n stand_v yet_o firm_a that_o either_o the_o ancient_a church_n err_v in_o condemn_v the_o collyridians_n or_o the_o present_n err_v in_o approve_v and_o practise_v the_o same_o worship_n a_o advertisement_n the_o reader_n when_o he_o meet_v with_o the_o phrase_n catholic_n doctrine_n in_o the_o two_o follow_a discourse_n must_v remember_v that_o it_o do_v not_o signify_v article_n of_o faith_n determine_v in_o any_o general_n council_n which_o may_v be_v look_v upon_o as_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n but_o the_o current_n and_o common_a opinion_n of_o the_o age_n which_o obtain_v in_o it_o without_o any_o know_a opposition_n and_o contradiction_n neither_o need_v this_o be_v wonder_v at_o since_o they_o be_v about_o matter_n far_o remove_v from_o the_o common_a faith_n of_o christian_n and_o have_v no_o necessary_a influence_n upon_o good_a life_n and_o manner_n whatsoever_o necessity_n by_o mistake_n of_o some_o scripture_n may_v be_v put_v upon_o they_o iv_o a_o argument_n draw_v from_o the_o admit_v infant_n to_o the_o eucharist_n as_o without_o which_o they_o can_v not_o be_v save_v against_o the_o church_n infallibility_n the_o condition_n without_o the_o performance_n whereof_o no_o man_n can_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v this_o that_o he_o believe_v firm_o and_o without_o doubt_v whatsoever_o the_o church_n require_v he_o to_o believe_v more_o distinct_o and_o particular_o thus_o he_o must_v believe_v all_o that_o to_o be_v divine_a revelation_n which_o that_o church_n teach_v to_o be_v such_o as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o trinity_n the_o hypostatical_a union_n of_o two_o nature_n in_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n from_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n and_o such_o like_a whatsoever_o that_o church_n teach_v to_o be_v necessary_a he_o must_v believe_v to_o be_v necessary_a as_o baptism_n for_o infant_n faith_n in_o christ_n for_o those_o that_o be_v capable_a of_o faith_n penance_n for_o those_o that_o have_v commit_v mortal_a sin_n after_o baptism_n etc._n etc._n whatsoever_o that_o church_n declare_v expedient_a and_o profitable_a he_o must_v believe_v to_o be_v expedient_a and_o profitable_a as_o monastical_a life_n prayer_n to_o saint_n prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a go_v on_o pilgrimage_n the_o use_n of_o pardon_n veneration_n of_o holy_a image_n and_o relic_n latin_n service_n where_o the_o people_n understand_v it_o not_o communicate_v the_o laity_n in_o one_o kind_a and_o such_o like_a whatsoever_o that_o church_n hold_v lawful_a he_o must_v believe_v lawful_a as_o to_o marry_o to_o make_v distinction_n of_o meat_n as_o if_o some_o be_v clean_a and_o other_o unclean_a to_o fly_v in_o time_n of_o persecution_n for_o they_o that_o serve_v at_o the_o altar_n to_o live_v by_o the_o altar_n to_o testify_v a_o truth_n by_o oath_n when_o a_o lawful_a magistrate_n shall_v require_v it_o to_o possess_v riches_n etc._n etc._n now_o be_v it_o impossible_a that_o any_o man_n shall_v certain_o believe_v any_o thing_n unless_o either_o it_o be_v evident_a of_o itself_o or_o he_o have_v some_o certain_a reason_n at_o least_o some_o suppose_a certain_a reason_n and_o infallible_a ground_n for_o his_o belief_n now_o the_o doctrine_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n teach_v it_o be_v evident_a and_o undeniable_a that_o they_o be_v not_o evident_a of_o themselves_o neither_o evident_o true_a nor_o evident_o credible_a he_o therefore_o that_o will_v believe_v they_o must_v of_o necessity_n have_v some_o certain_a and_o infallible_a ground_n whereon_o to_o build_v his_o belief_n of_o they_o there_o be_v no_o other_o ground_n for_o a_o man_n belief_n of_o they_o especial_o in_o many_o point_n but_o only_o a_o assurance_n of_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o man_n can_v be_v assure_v that_o that_o church_n be_v infallible_a and_o can_v err_v whereof_o he_o may_v be_v assure_v that_o she_o have_v err_v unless_o she_o have_v some_o new_a promise_n of_o divine_a assistance_n which_o may_v for_o the_o future_a secure_v she_o from_o danger_n of_o err_a but_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n pretend_v to_o none_o such_o nothing_o be_v more_o certain_a than_o that_o that_o church_n have_v err_v which_o have_v believe_v and_o teach_v irreconcilable_a contradiction_n one_o whereof_o must_v of_o necessity_n be_v a_o error_n that_o the_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n be_v necessary_a for_o infant_n and_o that_o the_o receive_v thereof_o be_v not_o necessary_a for_o they_o that_o it_o be_v the_o will_n of_o god_n that_o the_o church_n shall_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n to_o they_o and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o will_n of_o god_n that_o the_o church_n shall_v do_v so_o be_v manifest_a and_o irreconcilable_a contradiction_n suppose_v only_o that_o which_o be_v most_o evident_a that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v the_o same_o thing_n of_o the_o same_o virtue_n and_o efficacy_n now_o as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n that_o infant_n be_v the_o same_o thing_n they_o be_v have_v as_o much_o need_n be_v capable_a of_o as_o much_o benefit_n by_o the_o eucharist_n now_o as_o then_o as_o subject_a to_o irreverent_a carriage_n then_o as_o now_o and_o last_o that_o the_o present_a church_n be_v as_o much_o bind_v to_o provide_v for_o the_o spiritual_a good_a of_o infant_n as_o the_o ancient_a church_n be_v i_o say_v these_o thing_n suppose_v the_o proposition_n before_o set_v down_o be_v plain_a and_o irreconcilable_a contradiction_n whereof_o the_o present_a roman_a church_n do_v hold_v the_o negative_a and_o the_o ancient_a church_n of_o rome_n do_v hold_v the_o affirmative_a and_o therefore_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o either_o the_o present_a church_n do_v err_v in_o hold_v something_o not_o necessary_a which_o be_v so_o or_o that_o the_o ancient_a church_n do_v
such_o great_a harm_n or_o danger_n in_o not_o have_v such_o a_o certainty_n whether_o some_o book_n be_v canonical_a or_o no_o as_o you_o require_v if_o they_o have_v why_o may_v not_o protestant_n notwithstanding_o their_o difference_n have_v sufficient_a certainty_n hereof_o as_o well_o as_o the_o ancient_a father_n and_o church_n notwithstanding_o they_o 35._o you_o proceed_v and_o whereas_o the_o protestant_n of_o england_n in_o the_o 6._o art_n have_v these_o word_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n we_o do_v understand_v those_o book_n of_o who_o authority_n be_v never_o any_o doubt_n in_o the_o church_n you_o demand_v what_o they_o mean_v by_o they_o whether_o that_o by_o the_o church_n consent_n they_o be_v assure_v what_o scripture_n be_v canonical_a i_o answer_v for_o they_o yes_o they_o be_v so_o and_o whereas_o you_o infer_v from_o hence_o this_o be_v to_o make_v the_o church_n judge_n i_o have_v tell_v you_o already_o that_o of_o this_o controversy_n we_o make_v the_o church_n the_o judge_n but_o not_o the_o present_a church_n much_o less_o the_o present_a roman_a church_n but_o the_o consent_n and_o testimony_n of_o the_o ancient_n and_o primitive_a church_n which_o though_o it_o be_v but_o a_o high_o probable_a inducement_n and_o no_o demonstrative_a enforcement_n yet_o methinks_v you_o shall_v not_o deny_v but_o it_o may_v be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o faith_n who_o faith_n even_o of_o the_o foundation_n of_o all_o your_o faith_n your_o church_n authority_n be_v build_v last_o and_o whole_o upon_o prudential_n motive_n 36._o but_o by_o this_o rule_n the_o whole_a book_n of_o esther_n must_v quit_v the_o canon_n because_o it_o be_v exclude_v by_o some_o in_o the_o church_n by_o melito_n athanasius_n and_o gregory_n nazianzen_n then_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v he_o that_o shall_v think_v he_o have_v reason_n to_o exclude_v it_o now_o may_v be_v still_o in_o the_o church_n as_o well_o as_o melito_n athanasius_n nazianzen_n be_v and_o while_o you_o thus_o inveigh_v against_o luther_n and_o charge_v he_o with_o luciferian_a heresy_n for_o do_v that_o which_o you_o in_o this_o very_a place_n confess_v that_o saint_n in_o heaven_n before_o he_o have_v do_v be_v you_o not_o partial_a and_o a_o judge_n of_o evil_a thought_n 37._o luther_n censure_n of_o ecclesiaste_n job_n and_o the_o prophet_n though_o you_o make_v such_o tragedy_n with_o they_o i_o see_v none_o of_o they_o but_o be_v capable_a of_o a_o tolerable_a construction_n and_o far_o from_o have_v in_o they_o any_o fundamental_a heresy_n he_o that_o condemn_v he_o for_o say_v the_o book_n of_o ecclesiastes_n be_v not_o full_a that_o it_o have_v many_o abrupt_a thing_n condemn_v he_o for_o aught_o i_o can_v see_v for_o speak_v truth_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o censure_n be_v but_o a_o bold_a and_o blunt_a expression_n of_o the_o same_o thing_n the_o book_n of_o job_n may_v be_v a_o true_a history_n and_o yet_o as_o many_o true_a story_n be_v and_o have_v be_v a_o argument_n of_o a_o fable_n to_o set_v before_o we_o a_o example_n of_o patience_n and_o though_o the_o book_n of_o the_o prophet_n be_v not_o write_v by_o themselves_o but_o by_o their_o disciple_n yet_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o they_o be_v write_v casual_o though_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o damn_v all_o for_o heretic_n that_o say_v some_o book_n of_o scripture_n be_v write_v casual_o neither_o be_v there_o any_o reason_n they_o shall_v the_o soon_o be_v call_v in_o question_n for_o be_v write_v by_o their_o disciple_n see_v be_v so_o write_v they_o have_v attestation_n from_o themselves_o be_v the_o prophecy_n of_o jeremy_n the_o less_o canonical_a for_o be_v write_v by_o baruch_n or_o because_o s._n peter_n the_o master_n dictate_v the_o gospel_n and_o s._n mark_v the_o scholar_n write_v it_o be_v it_o the_o more_o likely_a to_o be_v call_v in_o question_n 38._o but_o leave_v luther_n you_o return_v to_o our_o english_a canon_n of_o scripture_n and_o tell_v we_o that_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n by_o the_o above_o mention_v rule_n of_o who_o authority_n be_v never_o any_o doubt_n in_o the_o church_n divers_a book_n must_v be_v discanonize_v not_o so_o for_o i_o may_v believe_v even_o those_o question_a book_n to_o have_v be_v write_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o to_o be_v canonical_a but_o i_o can_v in_o reason_n believe_v this_o of_o they_o so_o undoubted_o as_o of_o those_o book_n which_o be_v never_o question_v at_o least_o i_o have_v no_o warrant_n to_o damn_v any_o man_n that_o shall_v doubt_v of_o they_o or_o deny_v they_o now_o have_v the_o example_n of_o saint_n in_o heaven_n either_o to_o justify_v or_o excuse_v such_o their_o doubt_v or_o denial_n 39_o you_o observe_v in_o the_o next_o place_n that_o our_o six_o article_n specify_v by_o name_n all_o the_o book_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n shuffle_n over_o these_o of_o the_o new_a with_o this_o generality_n all_o the_o book_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n as_o they_o be_v common_o receive_v we_o do_v receive_v and_o account_v they_o canonical_a and_o in_o this_o you_o fancy_n to_o yourself_o a_o mystery_n of_o iniquity_n but_o if_o this_o be_v all_o the_o shuffle_n that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v guilty_a of_o i_o believe_v the_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o king_n may_v give_v for_o her_o motto_n honi_fw-fr soit_fw-fr qui_fw-fr mal_fw-fr y_fw-fr pense_fw-fr for_o all_o the_o bibles_n which_o since_o the_o compose_v of_o the_o article_n have_v be_v use_v and_o allow_v by_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v testify_v and_o even_o proclaim_v to_o the_o world_n that_o by_o common_o receive_v they_o mean_v receive_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o other_o church_n before_o the_o reformation_n i_o pray_v take_v the_o pain_n to_o look_v in_o they_o and_o there_o you_o shall_v find_v the_o book_n which_o the_o church_n of_o england_n count_v apocryphal_a mark_v out_o and_o sever_v from_o the_o rest_n with_o this_o title_n in_o the_o beginning_n the_o book_n call_v apocrypha_fw-la and_o with_o this_o close_a or_o seal_v in_o the_o end_n the_o end_n of_o the_o apocrypha_fw-la and_o have_v tell_v you_o by_o name_n and_o in_o particular_a what_o book_n only_o she_o esteem_v apocryphal_a i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o put_v she_o to_o the_o trouble_n of_o tell_v you_o that_o the_o rest_n be_v in_o her_o judgement_n canonical_a 40._o but_o if_o by_o common_o receive_v she_o mean_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n then_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n must_v she_o receive_v divers_a book_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n which_o she_o reject_v 41._o certain_o a_o very_a good_a consequence_n the_o church_n of_o england_n receive_v the_o book_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n receive_v therefore_o she_o must_v receive_v the_o book_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n which_o she_o receive_v as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v if_o you_o will_v do_v as_o we_o in_o one_o thing_n you_o must_v in_o all_o thing_n if_o you_o will_v pray_v to_o god_n with_o we_o you_o must_v pray_v to_o saint_n with_o we_o if_o you_o hold_v with_o we_o when_o we_o have_v reason_n on_o our_o side_n you_o must_v de_fw-mi so_o when_o we_o have_v no_o reason_n 43._o but_o with_o what_o coherence_n can_v we_o say_v in_o the_o former_a part_n of_o the_o article_n that_o by_o scripture_n we_o mean_v those_o book_n that_o be_v never_o doubt_v of_o and_o in_o the_o latter_a say_v we_o receive_v all_o the_o book_n of_o the_o new_a testament_n as_o they_o be_v common_o receive_v whereas_o of_o they_o many_o be_v doubt_v i_o answer_v when_o they_o say_v of_o who_o authority_n there_o be_v never_o any_o doubt_n in_o the_o church_n they_o mean_v not_o those_o only_a of_o who_o authority_n there_o be_v simple_o no_o doubt_n at_o all_o by_o any_o man_n in_o the_o church_n but_o such_o as_o be_v not_o at_o any_o time_n doubt_v of_o by_o the_o whole_a church_n or_o by_o all_o church_n but_o have_v attestation_n though_o not_o 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book_n and_o not_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o book_n and_o therefore_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v profess_v the_o not_o believe_v of_o these_o i_o shall_v have_v reason_n to_o fear_v he_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o but_o there_o be_v not_o always_o a_o equal_a necessity_n for_o the_o belief_n of_o those_o thing_n for_o the_o belief_n whereof_o there_o be_v a_o equal_a reason_n we_o have_v i_o believe_v as_o great_a reason_n to_o believe_v there_o be_v such_o a_o man_n as_o henry_n the_o viii_o king_n of_o england_n as_o that_o jesus_n christ_n suffer_v under_o pontius_n pilate_n yet_o this_o be_v necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v and_o that_o be_v not_o so_o so_o that_o if_o any_o man_n shall_v doubt_v of_o or_o disbelieve_v that_o it_o be_v most_o unreasonable_o do_v of_o he_o yet_o it_o be_v no_o mortal_a sin_n nor_o no_o sin_n at_o all_o god_n have_v no_o where_n command_v man_n under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n to_o believe_v all_o which_o reason_n induce_v they_o to_o believe_v therefore_o as_o a_o executor_n that_o shall_v perform_v the_o whole_a will_n of_o the_o dead_a shall_v full_o satisfy_v the_o law_n though_o he_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o parchment_n to_o be_v his_o write_a will_n which_o indeed_o be_v so_o so_o i_o believe_v that_o he_o who_o believe_v all_o the_o particular_a doctrine_n which_o integrate_a christianity_n and_o live_v according_a to_o they_o shall_v be_v save_v though_o he_o neither_o believe_v nor_o know_v that_o the_o gospel_n be_v write_v by_o the_o evangelist_n or_o the_o epistle_n by_o the_o apostle_n 160._o this_o discourse_n whether_o it_o be_v rational_a and_o conclude_a or_o not_o i_o submit_v to_o better_a judgement_n but_o sure_o i_o be_o that_o the_o corollary_n which_o you_o draw_v from_o this_o position_n that_o this_o point_n be_v not_o fundamental_a be_v very_o inconsequent_a that_o be_v that_o we_o be_v uncertain_a of_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o because_o we_o say_v the_o whole_a church_n much_o more_o particular_a church_n and_o private_a man_n may_v err_v in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a a_o pretty_a sophism_n depend_v upon_o this_o principle_n that_o whosoever_o possible_o may_v err_v he_o can_v be_v certain_a that_o he_o do_v not_o err_v and_o upon_o this_o ground_n what_o shall_v hinder_v i_o from_o conclude_v that_o see_v you_o also_o hold_v that_o neither_o particular_a church_n nor_o private_a man_n be_v infallible_a even_o in_o fundamental_o that_o even_o the_o fundamental_o of_o christianity_n remain_v to_o you_o uncertain_a a_o judge_n may_v possible_o err_v in_o judgement_n can_v he_o therefore_o never_o have_v assurance_n that_o he_o have_v judge_v right_a a_o traveller_n may_v possible_o mistake_v his_o way_n must_v i_o therefore_o be_v doubtful_a whether_o i_o be_o in_o the_o right_a way_n from_o my_o hall_n to_o my_o chamber_n or_o can_v our_o london_n carrier_n have_v no_o certainty_n in_o the_o middle_n of_o the_o day_n when_o he_o be_v sober_a and_o in_o his_o wit_n that_o he_o be_v in_o the_o way_n to_o london_n these_o you_o see_v be_v right_o worthy_a consequence_n and_o yet_o they_o be_v as_o like_v your_o own_o as_o a_o egg_n to_o a_o egg_n or_o milk_n to_o milk_n 163._o ad_fw-la §_o 27._o c._n m._n s._n austin_n plain_o affirm_v that_o to_o oppose_v the_o church_n definition_n be_v to_o resist_v god_n himself_o speak_v of_o the_o controversy_n of_o rebaptization_n de_fw-fr unit._n eccl._n cap._n 22._o where_o he_o say_v that_o christ_n bear_v witness_v to_o his_o church_n and_o whosoever_o refuse_v to_o follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n do_v resist_v our_o saviour_n himself_o who_o by_o his_o testimony_n recommend_v the_o church_n etc._n etc._n i_o will_v i_o answer_v first_o that_o in_o many_o thing_n you_o will_v not_o be_v try_v by_o s._n augustine_n judgement_n nor_o submit_v to_o his_o authority_n not_o concern_v appeals_n to_o rome_n not_o concern_v transubstantiation_n not_o touch_v the_o use_n and_o worship_v of_o image_n not_o concern_v the_o state_n of_o saint_n soul_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n not_o touch_v the_o virgin_n mary_fw-mi freedom_n from_o actual_a and_o original_a sin_n not_o touch_v the_o necessity_n of_o the_o eucharist_n for_o infant_n not_o touch_v the_o damn_v infant_n to_o hell_n that_o die_v without_o baptism_n not_o touch_v the_o knowledge_n of_o saint_n depart_v not_o touch_v purgatory_n not_o touch_v the_o fallibility_n of_o council_n even_o general_a council_n not_o touch_v perfection_n and_o perspicuity_n of_o scripture_n in_o matter_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n not_o touch_v auricular_a confession_n not_o touch_v the_o half_a communion_n not_o touch_v prayer_n in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n in_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v you_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o s._n austin_n judgement_n and_o therefore_o can_v with_o no_o reason_n or_o equity_n require_v we_o to_o do_v so_o in_o this_o matter_n 2._o to_o s._n augustine_n in_o heat_n of_o disputation_n against_o the_o donatist_n and_o ransack_v all_o place_n for_o argument_n against_o they_o we_o oppose_v s._n austin_n out_o of_o this_o heat_n deliver_v the_o doctrine_n of_o christianity_n calm_o and_o moderate_o where_o he_o say_v in_o iis_fw-la quae_fw-la apertè_fw-la posita_fw-la sunt_fw-la in_o sacris_fw-la scripture_n be_v omne_fw-la ea_fw-la reperiuntur_fw-la quae_fw-la continent_n fidem_fw-la moresque_fw-la vivendi_fw-la 3._o we_o say_v he_o speak_v not_o of_o the_o roman_a but_o the_o catholic_n church_n of_o far_o great_a extent_n and_o therefore_o of_o far_o great_a credit_n and_o authority_n than_o the_o roman_a church_n 4_o he_o speak_v of_o a_o point_n not_o express_v but_o yet_o not_o contradict_v by_o scripture_n whereas_o the_o error_n we_o charge_v you_o with_o be_v contradict_v by_o scripture_n 5._o he_o say_v not_o that_o christ_n have_v recommend_v the_o church_n to_o we_o for_o a_o infallible_a definer_n of_o all_o emergent_a controversy_n but_o for_o a_o credible_a witness_n of_o ancient_a tradition_n whosoever_o therefore_o refuse_v to_o follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n understand_v of_o all_o place_n and_o age_n though_o he_o be_v think_v to_o resist_v our_o saviour_n what_o be_v that_o to_o we_o who_o cast_v off_o no_o practiec_n of_o the_o church_n but_o such_o as_o be_v evident_o post-nate_a to_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o plain_o contrary_a to_o the_o practice_n of_o former_a and_o pure_a time_n last_o it_o be_v evident_a and_o even_o to_o impudence_n itself_o undeniable_a that_o upon_o this_o ground_n of_o believe_v all_o thing_n teach_v by_o the_o present_a church_n as_o teach_v by_o christ_n error_n be_v hold_v for_o example_n the_o necessity_n of_o the_o eucharist_n for_o infant_n and_o that_o in_o s._n austin_n time_n and_o that_o by_o s._n austin_n himself_n and_o therefore_o without_o controversy_n this_o be_v no_o certain_a ground_n for_o truth_n which_o may_v support_v falsehood_n as_o well_o as_o truth_n 164._o to_o the_o argument_n wherewith_o you_o conclude_v i_o answer_v that_o though_o the_o visible_a church_n shall_v always_o without_o fail_n propose_v so_o much_o of_o god_n revelation_n as_o be_v sufficient_a to_o bring_v man_n to_o heaven_n for_o otherwise_o it_o will_v not_o be_v the_o visible_a church_n yet_o it_o may_v sometime_o add_v to_o this_o revelation_n thing_n superfluous_a nay_o hurtful_a nay_o in_o themselves_o damnable_a though_o not_o unpardonable_a and_o sometime_o take_v from_o it_o thing_n very_o expedient_a and_o profitable_a and_o therefore_o it_o be_v possible_a without_o sin_n to_o resist_v in_o some_o thing_n the_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n but_o you_o press_v we_o far_o and_o demand_v what_o visible_a church_n be_v extant_a when_o luther_n begin_v whether_o it_o be_v the_o roman_a or_o protestant_a church_n as_o if_o it_o must_v of_o necessity_n either_o be_v protestant_n or_o roman_a or_o roman_a of_o necessity_n if_o it_o be_v not_o protestant_a yet_o this_o be_v the_o most_o usual_a fallacy_n of_o all_o your_o disputer_n by_o some_o specious_a argument_n to_o persuade_v weak_a man_n that_o the_o church_n of_o protestant_n can_v be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o thence_o to_o infer_v that_o without_o doubt_v it_o must_v be_v the_o roman_a but_o why_o may_v not_o the_o roman_a be_v content_a to_o be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o the_o grecian_a another_o and_o if_o one_o must_v be_v the_o whole_a why_o not_o the_o greek_a church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o roman_a there_o be_v not_o one_o note_n of_o your_o church_n which_o agree_v not_o to_o she_o as_o well_o as_o to_o your_o own_o unless_o it_o be_v that_o she_o be_v poor_a and_o oppress_v by_o the_o turk_n and_o you_o be_v in_o glory_n and_o splendour_n chap._n iii_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o three_o chapter_n wherein_o it_o be_v maintain_v that_o the_o distinction_n of_o point_n fundamental_a and_o not_o fundamental_a be_v in_o this_o present_a controversy_n
and_o he_o more_o likely_a to_o err_v than_o any_o other_o because_o he_o may_v err_v and_o think_v he_o can_v and_o because_o he_o conceive_v the_o spirit_n absolute_o promise_v to_o the_o succession_n of_o bishop_n of_o which_o many_o have_v be_v notorious_o and_o confess_o wicked_a man_n man_n of_o the_o world_n whereas_o this_o spirit_n be_v the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n who_o the_o world_n can_v receive_v because_o he_o see_v he_o not_o neither_o know_v he_o 38._o ad_fw-la §_o 16._o to_o this_o paragraph_n which_o pretend_v to_o show_v that_o if_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v fallible_a in_o some_o point_n it_o follow_v that_o no_o true_a protestant_n can_v with_o assurance_n believe_v the_o universal_a church_n in_o any_o one_o point_n of_o doctrine_n i_o answer_v though_o the_o church_n be_v not_o infallible_a i_o can_v believe_v she_o in_o every_o thing_n she_o say_v yet_o i_o can_v and_o must_v believe_v she_o in_o every_o thing_n she_o prove_v either_o by_o scripture_n reason_n or_o universal_a tradition_n be_v it_o fundamental_a or_o be_v it_o not_o fundamental_a this_o you_o say_v we_o can_v in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a because_o in_o such_o we_o believe_v she_o may_v err_v but_o this_o i_o know_v we_o can_v because_o though_o she_o may_v err_v in_o some_o thing_n yet_o she_o do_v not_o err_v in_o what_o she_o prove_v though_o it_o be_v not_o fundamental_a again_o you_o say_v we_o can_v do_v it_o in_o fundamental_o because_o we_o must_v know_v what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a before_o we_o go_v to_o learn_v of_o she_o not_o so_o but_o i_o must_v learn_v of_o the_o church_n or_o of_o some_o part_n of_o the_o church_n or_o i_o can_v know_v any_o thing_n fundamental_a or_o not_o fundamental_a for_o how_o can_v i_o come_v to_o know_v that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o man_n as_o christ_n that_o he_o teach_v such_o doctrine_n that_o he_o and_o his_o apostle_n do_v such_o miracle_n in_o confirmation_n of_o it_o that_o the_o scripture_n be_v god_n word_n unless_o i_o be_v teach_v it_o so_o then_o the_o church_n be_v though_o not_o a_o certain_a foundation_n and_o proof_n of_o my_o faith_n yet_o a_o necessary_a introduction_n to_o it_o 39_o but_o the_o church_n infallible_a direction_n extend_v only_o to_o fundamental_o unless_o i_o know_v they_o before_o i_o go_v to_o learn_v of_o she_o i_o may_v be_v rather_o delude_v than_o instruct_v by_o she_o the_o reason_n and_o connexion_n of_o this_o consequence_n i_o fear_v neither_o i_o nor_o you_o do_v well_o understand_v and_o beside_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o you_o be_v too_o bold_a in_o take_v that_o which_o no_o man_n grant_v you_o that_o the_o church_n be_v a_o infallible_a direct_a in_o fundamental_o for_o if_o she_o be_v so_o then_o must_v we_o not_o only_o learn_v fundamental_o of_o she_o but_o also_o learn_v of_o she_o what_o be_v fundamental_a and_o take_v all_o for_o fundamental_a which_o she_o deliver_v to_o be_v such_o in_o the_o performance_n whereof_o if_o i_o know_v any_o one_o church_n to_o be_v infallible_a i_o will_v quick_o be_v of_o that_o church_n but_o good_a sir_n you_o must_v needs_o do_v we_o this_o favour_n to_o be_v so_o acute_a as_o to_o distinguish_v between_o be_v infallible_a in_o fundamental_o and_o be_v a_o infallible_a guide_n in_o fundamental_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v always_o a_o church_n infallible_a in_o fundamental_o we_o easy_o grant_v for_o it_o come_v to_o no_o more_o but_o this_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v always_o a_o church_n but_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v always_o such_o a_o church_n which_o be_v a_o infallible_a guide_n in_o fundamental_o this_o we_o deny_v for_o this_o can_v be_v without_o settle_v a_o know_a infallibility_n in_o some_o one_o know_a society_n of_o christian_n as_o the_o greek_a or_o the_o roman_a or_o some_o other_o church_n by_o adhere_v to_o which_o guide_n man_n may_v be_v guide_v to_o believe_v aright_o in_o all_o fundamental_o a_o man_n that_o be_v destitute_a of_o all_o mean_n of_o communicate_v his_o thought_n to_o other_o may_v yet_o in_o himself_o and_o to_o himself_o be_v infallible_a but_o he_o can_v not_o be_v a_o guide_n to_o other_o a_o man_n or_o a_o church_n that_o be_v invisible_a so_o that_o none_o can_v know_v how_o to_o repair_v to_o it_o for_o direction_n can_v not_o be_v a_o infallible_a guide_n and_o yet_o he_o may_v be_v in_o himself_o infallible_a you_o see_v then_o there_o be_v a_o wide_a difference_n between_o these_o two_o and_o therefore_o i_o must_v beseech_v you_o not_o to_o confound_v they_o nor_o to_o take_v the_o one_o for_o the_o other_o 40._o but_o they_o that_o know_v what_o point_n be_v fundamental_a otherwise_o than_o by_o the_o church_n authority_n learn_v not_o of_o the_o church_n yes_o they_o may_v learn_v of_o the_o church_n that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o from_o the_o scripture_n that_o such_o point_n be_v fundamental_a other_o be_v not_o so_o and_o consequent_o learn_v even_o of_o the_o church_n even_o of_o your_o church_n that_o all_o be_v not_o fundamental_a nay_o all_o be_v not_o true_a which_o the_o church_n teach_v to_o be_v so_o neither_o do_v i_o see_v what_o hinder_v but_o a_o man_n may_v learn_v of_o a_o church_n how_o to_o confute_v the_o error_n of_o that_o church_n which_o teach_v he_o as_o well_o as_o of_o my_o master_n in_o physic_n or_o the_o mathematics_n i_o may_v learn_v those_o rule_n and_o principle_n by_o which_o i_o may_v confute_v my_o master_n erroneous_a conclusion_n 41._o but_o you_o ask_v if_o the_o church_n be_v not_o a_o infallible_a teacher_n why_o be_v we_o command_v to_o hear_v to_o seek_v to_o obey_v the_o church_n i_o answer_v for_o command_n to_o seek_v the_o church_n i_o have_v not_o yet_o meet_v with_o any_o and_o i_o believe_v you_o if_o you_o be_v to_o show_v they_o will_v be_v yourself_o to_o seek_v but_o yet_o if_o you_o can_v produce_v some_o such_o we_o may_v seek_v the_o church_n to_o many_o good_a purpose_n without_o suppose_v she_o 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philosopher_n and_o heresy_n of_o christian_n be_v none_o of_o he_o he_o be_v but_o one_o to_o wit_n the_o catholic_n church_n etc._n etc._n s._n epiphan_n in_o fine_a panar_n 11._o a_o man_n may_v not_o call_v the_o conventicle_n of_o heretic_n i_o mean_v marcionites_n manichees_n and_o the_o rest_n church_n therefore_o the_o tradition_n appoint_v you_o to_o say_v i_o believe_v one_o holy_a catholic_n church_n etc._n etc._n s._n cyrill_n catech._n 18._o and_o these_o testimony_n i_o think_v be_v sufficient_a to_o show_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n that_o this_o title_n of_o the_o church_n one_o be_v direct_o and_o proper_o exclusive_a to_o all_o company_n beside_o one_o to_o wit_n that_o where_o there_o be_v diverse_a profession_n of_o faith_n or_o diverse_a communion_n there_o be_v but_o one_o of_o these_o which_o can_v be_v the_o catholic_n church_n upon_o this_o ground_n i_o desire_v some_o company_n of_o christian_n to_o be_v name_v profess_v a_o diverse_a 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church_n of_o the_o abyssine_n or_o armenians_n or_o any_o other_o society_n of_o christian_n extant_a before_o luther_n time_n and_o see_v this_o be_v so_o thus_o i_o argue_v against_o your_o ground_n 1._o that_o ground_n which_o conclude_v indifferent_o for_o both_o part_n of_o a_o contradiction_n must_v needs_o be_v false_a and_o deceitful_a and_o conclude_v for_o neither_o part_n but_o this_o ground_n conclude_v indifferent_o both_o part_n of_o a_o contradiction_n viz._n that_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o not_o the_o roman_a as_o well_o as_o that_o the_o roman_a be_v the_o catholic_n church_n and_o not_o the_o greek_a therefore_o the_o ground_n be_v false_a and_o deceitful_a seem_v it_o never_o so_o plausible_a 2._o i_o answer_v second_o that_o you_o shall_v have_v take_v notice_n of_o my_o answer_n which_o i_o then_o give_v you_o which_o be_v that_o your_o major_n as_o you_o then_o frame_v your_o argument_n but_o as_o now_o your_o minor_a be_v not_o always_o true_a if_o by_o one_o you_o understand_v one_o in_o external_a communion_n see_v nothing_o hinder_v in_o my_o judgement_n but_o that_o one_o church_n excommunicate_v by_o another_o upon_o a_o insufficient_a cause_n may_v yet_o remain_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o that_o church_n which_o upon_o the_o over-value_a this_o cause_n do_v excommunicate_v the_o other_o though_o in_o fault_n may_v yet_o remain_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n which_o be_v evident_a from_o the_o difference_n about_o easter-day_n between_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o church_n of_o asia_n for_o which_o vain_a matter_n victor_n bishop_n of_o rome_n excommunicate_v the_o church_n of_o asia_n and_o yet_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v not_o say_v that_o either_o the_o church_n excommunicate_v or_o the_o church_n excommunicate_v cease_v to_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_n the_o case_n be_v the_o same_o between_o the_o greek_a and_o the_o roman_a church_n for_o though_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o be_v great_a yet_o it_o be_v not_o so_o great_a as_o to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o excommunication_n and_o therefore_o the_o excommunication_n be_v causeless_a and_o consequent_o brutum_fw-la fulmen_fw-la and_o not_o ratify_v or_o confirm_v by_o god_n in_o heaven_n and_o therefore_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n at_o luther_n rise_a might_n be_v and_o be_v a_o true_a member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n as_o concern_v the_o place_n of_o father_n which_o you_o allege_v i_o demand_v 1._o if_o i_o can_v produce_v you_o a_o equal_a or_o great_a number_n of_o father_n or_o more_o ancient_a than_o these_o not_o contradict_v by_o any_o that_o live_v with_o they_o or_o before_o they_o for_o some_o doctrine_n condemn_v by_o the_o roman_a church_n whether_o you_o will_v subscribe_v it_o if_o not_o with_o what_o face_n or_o conscience_n can_v you_o make_v use_n of_o and_o build_v your_o whole_a faith_n upon_o the_o authority_n of_o father_n in_o some_o thing_n and_o reject_v the_o same_o authority_n in_o other_o 2._o second_o because_o you_o urge_v s._n cyprian_n authority_n i_o desire_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o whether_o this_o argument_n in_o his_o time_n will_v have_v conclude_v a_o necessity_n of_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n or_o no_o if_o not_o how_o shall_v it_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o it_o shall_v serve_v now_o and_o not_o then_o fit_v this_o time_n and_o not_o that_o as_o if_o it_o be_v like_o a_o almanac_n that_o will_v not_o serve_v for_o all_o meridian_n if_o it_o will_v why_o be_v it_o not_o urge_v by_o other_o upon_o s._n cyprian_n or_o represent_v by_o s._n cyprian_n to_o himself_o for_o his_o direction_n when_o he_o differ_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o all_o other_o that_o herein_o conform_v unto_o she_o touch_v the_o point_n of_o rebaptising_a heretic_n which_o the_o roman_a church_n hold_v unlawful_a and_o damnable_a s._n cyprian_n not_o only_o lawful_a but_o necessary_a so_o well_o do_v he_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o that_o church_n quid_fw-la verba_fw-la audiam_fw-la cùm_fw-la facta_fw-la videam_fw-la say_v he_o in_o the_o comedy_n and_o cardinal_n perron_n tell_v you_o in_o his_o epistle_n to_o casaubon_n that_o nothing_o be_v more_o unreasonable_a than_o to_o draw_v consequence_n from_o the_o word_n of_o father_n against_o their_o lively_a and_o actual_a practice_n the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o refutation_n of_o the_o place_n out_o of_o s._n austin_n who_o be_v so_o far_o from_o conclude_v from_o they_o or_o any_o other_o a_o necessity_n of_o rest_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o he_o himself_o as_o your_o author_n testify_v live_v and_o die_v in_o opposition_n of_o it_o even_o in_o that_o main_a fundamental_a point_n upon_o which_o mr._n lewgar_n have_v build_v the_o necessity_n of_o his_o departure_n from_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o embrace_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n that_o be_v the_o supreme_a authority_n of_o that_o church_n over_o other_o church_n and_o the_o power_n of_o receive_v appeals_n from_o they_o mr._n lewgar_o i_o know_v can_v be_v ignorant_a of_o these_o thing_n and_o therefore_o i_o wonder_v with_o what_o conscience_n he_o can_v produce_v their_o word_n against_o we_o who_o action_n be_v for_o we_o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o s._n cyprian_a and_o s._n austin_n be_v schismatic_n for_o do_v so_o it_o seem_v then_o schismatic_n may_v not_o only_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n against_o mr._n lewgar_n main_a conclusion_n but_o canonize_v saint_n of_o it_o or_o else_o s._n austin_n and_o s._n cyprian_a shall_v be_v raze_v out_o of_o the_o roman_a calendar_n if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o point_n of_o rebaptisation_a be_v not_o define_v in_o s._n cyprian_n time_n i_o say_v that_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o bishop_n and_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o their_o adherent_n it_o be_v for_o they_o urge_v it_o as_o a_o original_a and_o apostolic_a tradition_n and_o consequent_o at_o least_o of_o as_o great_a force_n as_o any_o church_n definition_n they_o excommunicate_v firmilianus_n and_o condemn_v s._n cyprian_n as_o a_o false_a christ_n and_o a_o false_a apostle_n for_o hold_v the_o contrary_a and_o urge_v he_o tyrannico_fw-la terror_fw-la to_o conform_v his_o judgement_n to_o they_o as_o he_o himself_o clear_o intimate_v if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o differ_v only_o from_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o rome_n and_o not_o from_o the_o roman_a church_n take_v it_o for_o the_o universal_a society_n of_o christian_n in_o communion_n with_o that_o church_n i_o answer_v 1._o they_o know_v no_o such_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n i_o be_o sure_a never_o use_v it_o in_o any_o such_o which_o whether_o it_o have_v be_v possible_a if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v be_v in_o their_o judgement_n to_o other_o church_n in_o
shall_v see_v what_o will_v come_v of_o it_o assure_v yourself_o you_o have_v a_o wolf_n by_o the_o ear_n if_o you_o say_v they_o be_v you_o overthrow_v your_o own_o conclusion_n and_o say_v that_o church_n divide_v in_o communion_n may_v both_o be_v member_n of_o the_o catholic_n if_o they_o be_v not_o then_o shall_v we_o have_v saint_n and_o martyr_n in_o heaven_n which_o be_v no_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n roman_n church_n as_o for_o irenaeus_n his_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o ruffinus_n his_o abscindere_fw-la ab_fw-la unitate_fw-la corporis_fw-la they_o imply_v no_o more_o but_o this_o at_o the_o most_o that_o victor_n quantum_fw-la in_fw-la se_fw-la fuit_fw-la do_v cut_v they_o off_o from_o the_o external_n communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n suppose_v that_o for_o their_o obstinacy_n in_o their_o tradition_n they_o have_v cut_v themselves_o off_o from_o the_o internal_a communion_n of_o it_o but_o that_o this_o sentence_n of_o victor_n be_v ratify_v in_o heaven_n and_o that_o they_o be_v indeed_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n so_o far_o be_v irenaeus_n from_o think_v that_o he_o and_o in_o a_o manner_n all_o the_o other_o bishop_n reprehend_v victor_n for_o pronounce_v this_o sentence_n on_o they_o upon_o a_o cause_n so_o insufficient_a which_o how_o they_o can_v say_v or_o possible_o think_v of_o a_o sentence_n ratify_v by_o god_n in_o heaven_n and_o not_o reprehend_v god_n himself_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o inform_v i_o and_o if_o they_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o reprehend_v the_o sentence_n of_o god_n himself_o together_o with_o victor_n than_o i_o believe_v it_o will_v follow_v unavoidable_o that_o they_o do_v not_o conceive_v nor_o believe_v victor_n sentence_n to_o be_v ratify_v by_o god_n and_o consequent_o do_v not_o believe_v that_o these_o excommunicate_v church_n be_v not_o in_o god_n account_n true_a member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n ad_fw-la §_o 4._o and_o here_o again_o we_o have_v another_o subterfuge_n by_o a_o verbal_a distinction_n between_o excommunication_n and_o voluntary_a separation_n as_o if_o the_o separation_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n make_v in_o victor_n time_n from_o the_o asian_a church_n be_v not_o a_o voluntary_a separation_n or_o as_o if_o the_o church_n of_o asia_n do_v not_o voluntary_o do_v that_o which_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o separation_n or_o as_o if_o though_o they_o sepated_a not_o themselves_o indeed_o conceive_v the_o cause_n to_o be_v insufficient_a they_o do_v not_o yet_o remain_v voluntary_o separate_v rather_o than_o conform_v themselves_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o last_o as_o if_o the_o grecian_n of_o old_a or_o the_o protestant_n of_o late_a may_v not_o pretend_v as_o just_o as_o the_o asian_a church_n that_o their_o separation_n too_o be_v not_o voluntary_o but_o of_o necessity_n for_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n require_v of_o they_o under_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n such_o condition_n of_o her_o communion_n as_o be_v neither_o necessary_a nor_o lawful_a to_o be_v perform_v ad_fw-la §_o 5._o and_o here_o again_o the_o matter_n be_v straighten_v by_o another_o limitation_n both_o side_n say_v you_o must_v claim_v to_o be_v the_o church_n but_o what_o then_o if_o one_o of_o they_o only_o claim_v though_o vain_o to_o be_v the_o church_n and_o the_o other_o content_a itself_o with_o be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o these_o than_o it_o seem_v for_o any_o thing_n you_o have_v say_v to_o the_o contrary_a may_v be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n and_o certain_o this_o be_v the_o case_n now_o between_o the_o church_n of_o england_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v be_v between_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n for_o i_o believe_v it_o will_v hardly_o be_v prove_v that_o the_o excommunication_n between_o they_o be_v mutual_a nor_o that_o the_o church_n of_o greece_n esteem_v itself_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n no_o church_n but_o itself_o a_o sound_a member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o a_o corrupt_a one_o again_o whereas_o you_o say_v the_o father_n speak_v of_o a_o voluntary_a separation_n certain_o they_o speak_v of_o any_o separation_n by_o heretic_n and_o such_o be_v in_o victor_n judgement_n the_o church_n of_o asia_n for_o hold_v a_o opinion_n contrary_a to_o the_o faith_n as_o he_o esteem_v or_o if_o he_o do_v not_o why_o do_v he_o cut_v they_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n but_o the_o true_a difference_n be_v the_o father_n speak_v of_o those_o which_o by_o your_o church_n be_v esteem_v heretic_n and_o be_v so_o whereas_o the_o asian_a church_n be_v by_o victor_n esteem_v heretic_n but_o be_v not_o so_o ad_fw-la §_o 6._o but_o their_o authority_n produce_v show_v no_o more_o than_o what_o i_o have_v show_v that_o the_o church_n be_v â—ut_v one_o in_o exclusion_n of_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n and_o not_o that_o two_o particular_a church_n divide_v by_o mistake_n upon_o some_o overvalue_v difference_n may_v not_o be_v both_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n ad_fw-la §_o 7._o but_o i_o desire_v you_o to_o tell_v i_o whether_o you_o will_v do_v this_o if_o the_o doctrine_n produce_v and_o confirm_v by_o such_o a_o consent_n of_o father_n happen_v to_o be_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n either_o not_o catholic_n or_o absolute_o heretical_a if_o you_o will_v undertake_v this_o you_o shall_v hear_v far_o from_o i_o but_o if_o when_o their_o place_n be_v produce_v you_o will_v pretend_v as_o some_o of_o your_o side_n do_v that_o sure_o they_o be_v corrupt_v have_v neither_o reason_n nor_o show_v of_o reason_n for_o it_o unless_o this_o may_v pass_v for_o one_o as_o perhaps_o it_o may_v where_o reason_n be_v scarce_o that_o they_o be_v against_o your_o doctrine_n or_o if_o you_o will_v say_v they_o be_v to_o be_v interpret_v according_a to_o the_o pleasure_n of_o your_o church_n whether_o their_o word_n will_v bear_v it_o or_o no_o then_o i_o shall_v but_o lose_v my_o labour_n for_o this_o be_v not_o to_o try_v your_o church_n by_o the_o father_n but_o the_o father_n by_o your_o church_n the_o doctrine_n which_o i_o undertake_v to_o justify_v by_o a_o great_a consent_n of_o father_n than_o here_o you_o produce_v for_o instance_n shall_v be_v these_o 1._o that_o god_n election_n suppose_v prescience_n of_o man_n faith_n and_o perseverance_n 2._o that_o god_n do_v not_o predetermine_v man_n to_o all_o their_o action_n 3._o that_o the_o pope_n have_v no_o power_n in_o temporalty_n over_o king_n either_o direct_o or_o indirect_o 4._o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n may_v err_v in_o his_o public_a determination_n of_o matter_n of_o faith_n 5._o that_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v guilty_a of_o original_a sin_n 6._o that_o the_o b._n virgin_n be_v guilty_a of_o actual_a sin_n 7._o that_o the_o communion_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v to_o the_o laity_n in_o both_o kind_n 8._o that_o the_o read_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v to_o be_v deny_v to_o no_o man_n 9_o that_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o millenaries_n be_v true_a 10._o that_o the_o eucharist_n be_v to_o be_v administer_v to_o infant_n 11._o that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n remain_v in_o the_o eucharist_n of_o her_o consecration_n 12._o that_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o saint_n depart_v enjoy_v not_o the_o vision_n of_o god_n before_o the_o last_o day_n 13._o that_o at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n all_o the_o saint_n shall_v past_o through_o a_o purge_a fire_n all_o these_o proposition_n be_v hold_v by_o your_o church_n either_o heretical_a or_o at_o least_o not_o catholical_a and_o yet_o in_o this_o promise_n of_o you_o you_o have_v undertake_v to_o believe_v they_o as_o firm_o as_o you_o now_o do_v this_o that_o two_o divide_a society_n can_v be_v both_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n ad_fw-la §_o 8._o be_v it_o not_o then_o the_o answerers_n part_n to_o show_v that_o the_o proof_n pretend_v be_v indeed_o no_o proof_n and_o do_v not_o he_o prove_v no_o proof_n at_o least_o in_o your_o mouth_n who_o undertake_v to_o show_v that_o a_o equal_a or_o great_a number_n of_o the_o very_a same_o witness_n be_v reject_v by_o yourselves_o in_o many_o other_o thing_n either_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o father_n in_o any_o age_n or_o age_n be_v infallible_a and_o then_o you_o be_v to_o reject_v it_o in_o nothing_o or_o it_o be_v not_o so_o and_o then_o you_o be_v not_o to_o urge_v it_o in_o any_o thing_n as_o if_o the_o father_n testimony_n against_o we_o be_v sword_n and_o spear_n and_o against_o you_o bulrush_n ad_fw-la §_o 9_o in_o effect_n as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v if_o you_o answer_v not_o as_o i_o please_v i_o will_v dispute_v no_o long_o but_o you_o remember_v the_o proverb_n will_v think_v
god_n i_o say_v not_o that_o she_o be_v god_n but_o that_o they_o may_v lawful_o offer_v to_o she_o and_o as_o i_o deny_v not_o but_o it_o follow_v she_o be_v a_o woman_n therefore_o not_o a_o god_n so_o i_o think_v you_o will_v grant_v it_o follow_v as_o just_o she_o be_v a_o woman_n therefore_o not_o to_o be_v adore_v with_o offering_n and_o therefore_o see_v the_o word_n lie_v indifferent_o between_o we_o and_o be_v not_o express_o and_o especial_o here_o apply_v for_o the_o refutation_n of_o that_o heresy_n which_o you_o pretend_v they_o be_v guilty_a of_o i_o see_v no_o reason_n why_o epiphanius_n may_v not_o as_o well_o intend_v they_o for_o that_o purpose_n which_o i_o conceive_v as_o for_o that_o which_o you_o conceive_v the_o last_o place_n allege_v tell_v we_o that_o she_o be_v beget_v and_o bear_v as_o other_o man_n and_o woman_n be_v which_o if_o the_o collyridians_n have_v think_v her_o god_n eternal_a and_o absolute_o without_o beginning_n shall_v not_o have_v be_v bare_o say_v but_o prove_v as_o be_v in_o effect_n the_o very_a point_n in_o question_n and_o therefore_o see_v epiphanius_n content_v himself_o with_o say_v so_o without_o proof_n it_o be_v evident_a he_o never_o think_v they_o will_v make_v difficulty_n to_o grant_v it_o and_o consequent_o that_o they_o do_v not_o believe_v she_o to_o be_v god_n eternal_a but_o then_o again_o if_o the_o rule_n be_v good_a which_o part_n of_o your_o proof_n depend_v upon_o that_o whatever_o epiphanius_n deny_v in_o this_o discourse_n that_o the_o collyridians_n hold_v for_o upon_o that_o ground_n from_o non_fw-la &_o deum_fw-la hanc_fw-la efficeret_fw-la &_o non_fw-la tamen_fw-la deus_fw-la you_o conclude_v they_o believe_v she_o god_n if_o i_o say_v this_o rule_n be_v good_a than_o you_o shall_v be_v constant_a to_o it_o and_o now_o that_o he_o say_v non_fw-la tamen_fw-la aliter_fw-la genita_fw-la est_fw-la praeter_fw-la hominum_fw-la naturam_fw-la she_o be_v not_o beget_v in_o a_o different_a way_n from_o other_o man_n you_o shall_v infer_v that_o they_o believe_v not_o that_o she_o be_v god_n but_o that_o she_o be_v otherwise_o bear_v and_o beget_v than_o the_o ordinary_a sort_n of_o men._n and_o so_o whereas_o he_o say_v before_o non_fw-la tamen_fw-la corpus_fw-la de_fw-la coelo_fw-la tulit_fw-la her_z body_n be_v not_o from_o heaven_n you_o shall_v infer_v that_o they_o believe_v her_o body_n come_v from_o heaven_n and_o again_o from_o those_o sanctum_fw-la erat_fw-la mariae_fw-la corpus_fw-la non_fw-la tamen_fw-la deus_fw-la you_o shall_v collect_v that_o they_o think_v not_o only_o her_o person_n but_o her_o body_n to_o be_v god_n or_o if_o these_o be_v wild_a and_o weak_a deduction_n than_o you_o must_v acknowledge_v that_o i_o have_v do_v you_o some_o favour_n in_o vouchsafe_v they_o a_o particular_a answer_n 5._o demand_v whether_o in_o the_o church_n of_o roman_a it_o be_v not_o a_o approve_a and_o perpetual_o practise_v worship_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n that_o incense_n which_o be_v never_o ancient_o offer_v unto_o any_o either_o by_o jew_n or_o gentile_n but_o to_o the_o true_a or_o to_o a_o suppose_a true_a god_n and_o taper_n and_o divers_a other_o oblation_n shall_v be_v offer_v to_o her_o honour_n answ_n a_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o approve_v too_o by_o those_o that_o practise_v it_o belong_v not_o to_o she_o except_o it_o be_v a_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n and_o approve_a by_o she_o what_o her_o practice_n be_v abroad_o i_o know_v not_o here_o at_o home_n i_o see_v no_o such_o practice_n nor_o do_v i_o know_v any_o approbation_n of_o it_o in_o any_o of_o her_o public_a declaration_n but_o this_o i_o know_v that_o there_o be_v nothing_o in_o it_o unlawful_a or_o savour_v of_o the_o collyridian_n superstition_n to_o offer_v wax_n taper_n or_o any_o other_o thing_n at_o the_o memory_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n or_o any_o other_o canonize_v saint_n either_o as_o mean_n to_o procure_v their_o intercession_n by_o these_o 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some_o benefit_n receive_v by_o their_o intercession_n as_o theodoret_n 8._o theodoret_n theodoretus_n de_fw-fr curandis_fw-la affec_fw-la graec._n l._n 8._o tell_v we_o of_o eye_n and_o ear_n and_o hand_n some_o of_o gold_n and_o some_o of_o silver_n hang_v up_o in_o the_o chapel_n of_o the_o saint_n that_o have_v be_v present_v as_o oblation_n by_o those_o that_o have_v recover_v health_n in_o those_o member_n according_a to_o their_o vow_n make_v to_o that_o purpose_n in_o time_n of_o sickness_n reply_n i_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o a_o practice_n may_v be_v tolerate_v in_o a_o church_n and_o not_o approve_v as_o the_o public_a stew_n be_v in_o italy_n and_o usury_n in_o england_n but_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o tolerate_v with_o condemnation_n another_o to_o tolerate_v without_o condemnation_n nay_o with_o condemnation_n of_o those_o that_o shall_v oppose_v or_o condemn_v it_o and_o such_o i_o doubt_v not_o upon_o examination_n you_o may_v find_v be_v this_o practice_n general_a 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may_v have_v monument_n in_o church_n for_o all_o their_o tomb_n may_v be_v adorn_v with_o more_o precious_a and_o last_a ornament_n than_o flower_n yet_o if_o you_o have_v prove_v but_o this_o only_a that_o in_o s._n augustine_n time_n they_o adorn_v the_o saint_n tomb_n with_o flower_n by_o these_o outward_a sign_n to_o procure_v their_o intercession_n this_o though_o not_o much_o to_o the_o purpose_n have_v be_v not_o absolute_o to_o delude_v we_o but_o your_o quote_v place_n prove_v not_o so_o much_o as_o this_o and_o yet_o i_o believe_v you_o quote_v the_o best_a you_o can_v find_v nay_o they_o prove_v not_o they_o do_v adorn_v their_o tomb_n with_o flower_n at_o all_o much_o less_o that_o they_o do_v it_o for_o your_o pretend_a purpose_n such_o fool_n you_o think_v to_o deal_v with_o that_o will_v take_v any_o thing_n for_o any_o thing_n your_o first_o place_n i_o say_v prove_v it_o not_o unless_o out_o of_o mere_a courtesy_n we_o understand_v by_o ferebat_fw-la she_o bring_v to_o adorn_v s._n stephens_n tomb._n the_o second_o prove_v it_o not_o unless_o we_o give_v you_o leave_v after_o altari_fw-la without_o warrant_n from_o s._n austin_n to_o put_v in_o s._n stephani_n whereas_o i_o be_o yet_o to_o seek_v for_o any_o place_n in_o s._n austin_n where_o he_o call_v any_o altar_n the_o altar_n of_o such_o or_o such_o a_o saint_n which_o yet_o i_o think_v they_o forbear_v not_o for_o the_o unlawfulness_n but_o for_o fear_n of_o misconstruction_n then_o for_o theodoret_n he_o tell_v we_o indeed_o of_o vow_n make_v of_o monument_n of_o thankfulness_n dedicate_v for_o benefit_n obtain_v by_o the_o intercession_n of_o the_o martyr_n but_o here_o also_o i_o fear_v your_o conscience_n tell_v you_o that_o you_o abuse_v we_o and_o hide_v yourself_o in_o ambiguity_n for_o to_o who_o do_v theodoret_n say_v these_o vow_n be_v make_v to_o who_o be_v these_o monument_n of_o thankfulness_n dedicate_v what_o to_o the_o author_n or_o procure_v of_o the_o receive_a favour_n 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the_o sign_n of_o their_o recover_a health_n do_v abundant_o testify_v for_o their_o lord_n accept_v most_o gracious_o these_o present_n how_o mean_a so_o ever_o 6._o demand_v whether_o according_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n this_o may_v not_o be_v do_v lawful_o by_o woman_n and_o child_n and_o man_n that_o be_v not_o priest_n answ_n they_o may_v offer_v any_o thing_n by_o way_n of_o gift_n and_o present_n by_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o roman_a doctrine_n for_o any_o other_o than_o priest_n to_o offer_v any_o thing_n by_o way_n of_o sacrifice_n as_o the_o collyridians_n do_v reply_n aristotle_n say_v most_o true_o that_o true_a definition_n he_o mean_v i_o think_v of_o the_o term_n of_o the_o conclusion_n to_o be_v demonstrate_v be_v the_o best_a principle_n of_o science_n and_o therefore_o want_v of_o they_o must_v needs_o be_v a_o cause_n of_o error_n and_o confusion_n in_o any_o discourse_n let_v i_o therefore_o here_o request_v you_o to_o set_v down_o what_o be_v a_o sacrifice_n and_o how_o distinguish_v from_o a_o oblation_n by_o way_n of_o gift_n or_o present_a and_o you_o will_v quick_o see_v that_o if_o the_o collyridians_n offering_n a_o cake_n to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v indeed_o a_o sacrifice_n your_o offering_n a_o taper_n to_o she_o must_v likewise_o be_v so_o for_o a_o sacrifice_n be_v nothing_o else_o for_o aught_o i_o know_v but_o the_o oblation_n of_o any_o creature_n by_o way_n of_o consumption_n to_o the_o honour_n of_o that_o whatsoever_o it_o be_v to_o which_o it_o be_v offer_v for_o if_o you_o include_v in_o the_o definition_n that_o this_o offering_n must_v be_v intend_v to_o the_o high_a lord_n of_o all_o so_o be_v as_o you_o pretend_v your_o offering_n of_o taper_n to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n intend_v to_o god_n final_o though_o not_o immediate_o if_o you_o say_v it_o must_v be_v direct_v immediate_o to_o he_o and_o be_v not_o only_o no_o lawful_a sacrifice_n but_o simple_o no_o sacrifice_n unless_o it_o be_v so_o i_o say_v you_o may_v as_o well_o require_v to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o sacrifice_n that_o it_o be_v offer_v by_o a_o priest_n and_o from_o thence_o conclude_v because_o the_o collyridians_n be_v you_o say_v no_o priest_n their_o offering_n be_v no_o sacrifice_n for_o the_o object_n of_o the_o action_n be_v as_o extrinsical_a to_o the_o essence_n of_o it_o as_o the_o efficient_a and_o therefore_o if_o the_o defect_n of_o a_o due_a and_o legitimate_a offerer_n can_v hinder_v but_o that_o a_o offering_n may_v be_v a_o true_a sacrifice_n neither_o will_v the_o want_n of_o a_o due_a and_o lawful_a object_n be_v any_o hindrance_n but_o still_o it_o may_v be_v so_o second_o i_o say_v this_o be_v to_o confound_v the_o essence_n of_o thing_n with_o the_o lawful_a use_n of_o they_o in_o effect_n as_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v that_o a_o knife_n if_o misemployed_a be_v a_o knife_n no_o long_o three_o it_o be_v to_o make_v it_o not_o unlawful_a to_o offer_v incense_n which_o yet_o you_o seem_v somewhat_o scrupulous_a of_o or_o burnt-offering_n to_o the_o virgin_n mary_n or_o the_o saint_n or_o even_o to_o live_a man_n provide_v you_o know_v and_o believe_v and_o profess_v they_o to_o be_v man_n and_o not_o go_n for_o this_o once_o suppose_a these_o offering_n will_v be_v no_o long_o sacrifice_n and_o to_o offer_v to_o creature_n offering_n that_o be_v not_o sacrifice_n you_o say_v by_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v lawful_a it_o be_v last_o to_o deny_v which_o be_v most_o ridiculous_a that_o the_o pagan_n do_v indeed_o sacrifice_n to_o any_o of_o their_o inferior_a go_n 7._o demand_v if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o this_o worship_n which_o they_o give_v to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v not_o that_o of_o latria_n but_o that_o of_o dulia_n or_o hyperdulia_fw-la for_o that_o they_o do_v not_o esteem_v she_o god_n or_o if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o their_o worship_n to_o she_o be_v not_o final_o terminate_v neither_o but_o give_v she_o for_o her_o relation_n to_o christ_n i_o demand_v whether_o as_o it_o be_v in_o s._n paul_n judgement_n a_o great_a crime_n for_o he_o that_o know_v god_n not_o to_o worship_v he_o as_o god_n so_o it_o be_v not_o as_o great_a a_o crime_n for_o he_o that_o know_v she_o not_o to_o be_v god_n yet_o to_o worship_v she_o as_o if_o she_o be_v god_n with_o the_o worship_n which_o be_v proper_a and_o have_v be_v always_o appropriate_v to_o god_n alone_o such_o be_v the_o worship_n of_o oblation_n answ_n the_o worship_n of_o oblation_n as_o worship_n be_v take_v large_o for_o honour_n and_o oblation_n for_o a_o gift_n or_o present_a be_v never_o appropriate_a to_o god_n alone_o take_v worship_n and_o oblation_n in_o any_o high_a sense_n and_o so_o it_o be_v not_o allow_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n reply_n the_o oblation_n of_o thing_n by_o way_n of_o consumption_n be_v the_o worship_n i_o speak_v of_o this_o be_v a_o high_a matter_n than_o that_o of_o gift_n and_o present_n and_o this_o be_v allow_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v employ_v on_o and_o direct_v into_o though_o not_o terminate_v in_o the_o virgin_n mary_n and_o other_o saint_n 8._o demand_v whether_o any_o thing_n can_v be_v say_v for_o the_o justify_v the_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o this_o matter_n which_o may_v not_o also_o have_v be_v as_o just_o pretend_v for_o the_o justification_n of_o the_o collyridians_n in_o their_o opinion_n and_o practice_n see_v it_o be_v never_o impute_v to_o they_o that_o they_o account_v the_o bless_a virgin_n god_n or_o that_o they_o believe_v in_o more_o god_n than_o one_o and_o see_v their_o choose_v she_o out_o rather_o than_o any_o other_o woman_n
or_o any_o other_o creature_n for_o the_o object_n of_o their_o devotion_n show_v plain_o that_o they_o give_v it_o she_o for_o her_o relation_n to_o christ_n answ_n the_o collyridians_n can_v not_o say_v this_o as_o appear_v by_o what_o have_v be_v say_v before_o as_o it_o be_v a_o most_o shameless_a slander_n upon_o god_n church_n and_o such_o as_o without_o repentance_n will_v lie_v heavy_a upon_o his_o soul_n that_o utter_v it_o that_o the_o collyridians_n might_n as_o just_o and_o true_o have_v say_v all_o this_o for_o themselves_o as_o papist_n for_o themselves_o reply_n to_o this_o i_o reply_v four_o thing_n 1._o that_o to_o my_o last_o and_o most_o convince_a reason_n you_o have_v answer_v as_o much_o as_o you_o can_v i_o believe_v but_o yet_o you_o have_v answer_v nothing_o and_o i_o be_o well_o content_a you_o shall_v do_v so_o for_o where_o nothing_o be_v to_o be_v have_v the_o king_n himself_o must_v lose_v his_o right_n 2._o that_o if_o i_o have_v think_v or_o speak_v better_a of_o the_o collyridians_n than_o they_o deserve_v yet_o i_o can_v see_v how_o this_o have_v be_v to_o slander_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n 3._o that_o i_o do_v not_o positive_o affirm_v that_o the_o collyridians_n might_n do_v so_o but_o desire_v only_o it_o may_v be_v inquire_v into_o and_o examine_v whether_o for_o the_o reason_n allege_v they_o may_v not_o do_v so_o 4._o and_o last_o upon_o a_o thorough_a examination_n of_o the_o matter_n i_o do_v now_o affirm_v what_o before_o i_o do_v not_o that_o the_o collyridians_n for_o aught_o appear_v to_o the_o contrary_a may_v just_o and_o true_o have_v say_v for_o the_o justification_n of_o their_o practice_n as_o much_o nay_o the_o very_a same_o thing_n that_o the_o papist_n do_v for_o they_o for_o they_o may_v have_v say_v we_o be_v christian_n and_o believe_v the_o scripture_n and_o believe_v there_o be_v but_o one_o god_n we_o offer_v not_o to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n as_o believe_v she_o be_v god_n but_o the_o mother_n of_o 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collyridians_n as_o heretical_a or_o else_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n err_v in_o approve_v the_o same_o opinion_n and_o the_o same_o practice_n in_o effect_n which_o in_o they_o be_v condemn_v that_o be_v whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n must_v not_o be_v heretical_a with_o the_o collyridians_n or_o else_o the_o collyridians_n catholic_n with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n answ_n it_o appear_v by_o the_o former_a answer_n that_o neither_o do_v the_o ancient_a church_n err_v in_o condemn_v the_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o collyridians_n as_o heretical_a nor_o do_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n approve_v the_o same_o opinion_n or_o the_o same_o practice_n reply_n the_o substance_n of_o the_o former_a answer_n be_v but_o this_o that_o the_o papist_n offer_v to_o the_o virgin_n mary_n and_o other_o saint_n wax_v taper_n by_o way_n of_o gift_n or_o present_a not_o of_o sacrifice_n and_o to_o she_o not_o as_o to_o a_o god_n but_o as_o the_o mother_n of_o god_n but_o that_o the_o collyridians_n offer_v to_o she_o by_o way_n of_o sacrifice_n as_o to_o a_o sovereign_a power_n and_o deity_n to_o this_o i_o have_v reply_v and_o prove_v that_o it_o no_o way_n appear_v that_o the_o collyridians_n do_v believe_v the_o bless_a virgin_n to_o be_v a_o sovereign_a power_n and_o deity_n or_o that_o she_o be_v not_o subordinate_a to_o god_n then_o that_o their_o offering_n may_v be_v call_v a_o gift_n as_o well_o as_o the_o papist_n and_o the_o papist_n a_o sacrifice_n as_o well_o as_o they_o both_o of_o they_o be_v a_o consumption_n of_o a_o creature_n in_o honour_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n and_o neither_o of_o they_o more_o than_o so_o and_o therefore_o either_o the_o collyridians_n must_v stand_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n or_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n fall_n with_o the_o collyridians_n it_o have_v be_v perhaps_o sufficient_a for_o i_o thus_o to_o have_v vindicate_v my_o assertion_n from_o contrary_a objection_n without_o take_v on_o myself_o the_o burden_n of_o prove_v a_o negative_a yet_o to_o free_v from_o all_o doubt_n the_o conformity_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n with_o the_o collyridians_n in_o this_o point_n i_o think_v it_o will_v be_v necessary_a to_o show_v and_o that_o by_o many_o very_a probable_a argument_n that_o epiphanius_n do_v not_o impute_v to_o they_o the_o pretend_a heresy_n of_o believe_v the_o virgin_n mary_n god_n for_o than_o that_o other_o evasion_n that_o their_o oblation_n be_v a_o sacrifice_n and_o the_o papist_n be_v not_o together_o with_o this_o pretence_n will_v of_o itself_o fall_v to_o the_o ground_n now_o a_o opinion_n may_v be_v impute_v to_o a_o man_n two_o way_n either_o because_o he_o hold_v and_o maintain_v it_o express_o and_o formal_o and_o in_o term_n or_o because_o it_o may_v by_o a_o rational_a deduction_n be_v collect_v from_o some_o other_o opinion_n which_o he_o do_v hold_v in_o this_o latter_a sense_n i_o deny_v not_o but_o epiphanius_n may_v impute_v this_o opinion_n we_o speak_v of_o to_o the_o collyridians_n as_o a_o consequence_n upon_o their_o practice_n which_o practice_n they_o esteem_v lawful_a but_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o and_o own_v it_o formal_o and_o in_o term_n this_o i_o say_v epiphanius_n do_v not_o impute_v to_o they_o which_o i_o think_v for_o these_o seven_o reason_n my_o first_o reason_n be_v because_o he_o can_v not_o just_o do_v so_o and_o therefore_o without_o evident_a proof_n we_o may_v not_o say_v he_o do_v so_o for_o this_o be_v to_o be_v uncharitable_a to_o he_o in_o make_v he_o uncharitable_a to_o other_o now_o i_o say_v he_o can_v not_o just_o charge_v they_o with_o this_o opinion_n because_o he_o be_v not_o inform_v of_o any_o such_o opinion_n that_o they_o hold_v but_o only_o of_o their_o practice_n and_o this_o practice_n be_v no_o sufficient_a proof_n that_o they_o hold_v this_o opinion_n that_o his_o information_n reach_v no_o further_a than_o their_o practice_n appear_v out_o of_o his_o own_o word_n i_o have_v hear_v say_v he_o haeres_fw-la 78._o another_o thing_n with_o great_a astonishment_n that_o some_o be_v mad_o affect_v to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n endeavour_v to_o bring_v she_o in_o in_o god_n place_n be_v mad_a and_o beside_o themselves_o for_o they_o report_v that_o certain_a woman_n in_o arabia_n have_v devise_v this_o vanity_n to_o have_v meeting_n and_o offer_v a_o cake_n to_o the_o bless_a virgin_n the_o same_o practice_n he_o set_v down_o haeres_fw-la 79._o but_o that_o he_o be_v inform_v of_o any_o such_o opinion_n that_o they_o hold_v he_o have_v not_o a_o word_n or_o syllable_n to_o any_o such_o purpose_n and_o yet_o if_o he_o have_v be_v inform_v of_o any_o here_o have_v be_v the_o place_n to_o set_v it_o down_o which_o certain_o write_v his_o book_n rather_o of_o heretical_a opinion_n than_o practice_n he_o will_v not_o have_v omit_v to_o do_v if_o there_o have_v be_v occasion_n his_o silence_n therefore_o be_v a_o sufficient_a argument_n that_o he_o be_v not_o inform_v of_o any_o such_o opinion_n that_o they_o hold_v now_o that_o their_o practice_n be_v no_o assurance_n that_o they_o hold_v this_o opinion_n it_o be_v manifest_a because_o they_o may_v ground_v it_o not_o upon_o this_o opinion_n that_o she_o be_v god_n but_o upon_o another_o as_o false_a though_o not_o altogether_o so_o impious_a that_o the_o worship_n of_o oblation_n be_v not_o proper_a to_o god_n alone_o and_o therefore_o though_o epiphanius_n may_v think_v or_o fear_v that_o possible_o they_o may_v ground_v their_o practice_n upon_o that_o other_o impious_a opinion_n and_o therefore_o out_o of_o abundant_a caution_n confute_v that_o also_o as_o he_o do_v oblique_o and_o in_o a_o word_n and_o once_o only_o in_o all_o his_o long_a discourse_n by_o tell_v they_o that_o our_o saviour_n call_v her_o woman_n yet_o he_o have_v no_o
without_o alteration_n shall_v then_o be_v profitable_a and_o now_o unprofitable_a then_o all_o thing_n consider_v expedient_a to_o be_v use_v if_o not_o necessary_a and_o therefore_o command_v and_o now_o though_o there_o be_v no_o variety_n in_o the_o case_n all_o thing_n consider_v not_o necessary_a nor_o expedient_a and_o therefore_o forbid_v the_o issue_n of_o all_o this_o discourse_n for_o aught_o i_o can_v see_v must_v be_v this_o that_o either_o both_o part_n of_o a_o contradiction_n must_v be_v true_a and_o consequent_o nothing_o can_v be_v false_a see_v that_o which_o contradict_v truth_n be_v not_o so_o or_o else_o that_o the_o ancient_a church_n do_v err_v in_o believe_v something_o expedient_a which_o be_v not_o so_o and_o if_o so_o why_o may_v not_o the_o present_a church_n err_v in_o think_v latin_a service_n and_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_a expedient_a or_o that_o the_o present_a church_n do_v err_v in_o think_v something_o not_o expedient_a which_o be_v so_o and_o if_o so_o why_o may_v she_o not_o err_v in_o think_v communicate_v the_o laity_n in_o both_o kind_n and_o service_n in_o vulgar_a language_n not_o expedient_a v._o a_o argument_n draw_v from_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o millenaries_n against_o infallibility_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o millenaries_n be_v that_o before_o the_o world_n end_n christ_n shall_v reign_v upon_o earth_n for_o a_o thousand_o year_n and_o that_o the_o saint_n shall_v live_v under_o he_o in_o all_o holiness_n and_o happiness_n that_o this_o doctrine_n be_v by_o the_o present_a roman_a church_n hold_v false_a and_o heretical_a i_o think_v no_o man_n will_v deny_v that_o the_o same_o doctrine_n be_v by_o the_o church_n of_o the_o next_o age_n after_o the_o apostle_n hold_v true_a and_o catholic_n i_o prove_v by_o these_o two_o reason_n the_o first_o reason_n whatsoever_o doctrine_n be_v believe_v and_o teach_v by_o the_o most_o eminent_a father_n of_o any_o age_n of_o the_o church_n and_o by_o none_o of_o their_o contemporary_n oppose_v or_o condemn_v that_o be_v to_o be_v esteem_v the_o catholic_n doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o those_o time_n but_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o millenaries_n be_v believe_v and_o teach_v by_o the_o eminent_a father_n of_o the_o age_n next_o after_o the_o apostle_n and_o by_o none_o of_o that_o age_n oppose_v or_o condemn_v therefore_o it_o be_v the_o catholic_n doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o those_o time_n the_o proposition_n of_o this_o syllogism_n be_v cardinal_n perrons_n rule_v in_o his_o epistle_n to_o casaubon_n 5._o observe_v and_o be_v indeed_o one_o of_o the_o main_a pillar_n upon_o which_o the_o great_a fabric_n of_o his_o answer_n to_o king_n james_n do_v stand_v and_o with_o which_o it_o can_v but_o fall_v and_o therefore_o i_o will_v spend_v no_o time_n in_o the_o proof_n of_o it_o but_o the_o assumption_n thus_o i_o prove_v that_o doctrine_n which_o be_v believe_v and_o teach_v by_o papias_n bishop_n of_o hierapolis_n the_o disciple_n of_o the_o apostle_n disciple_n according_a to_o eusebius_n who_o live_v in_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n say_v he_o by_o justin_n martyr_n doctor_n of_o the_o church_n and_o martyr_n by_o melito_n bishop_n of_o sardis_n who_o have_v the_o gift_n of_o prophecy_n witness_n tert._n and_o who_o bellarmine_n acknowledge_v a_o saint_n by_o s._n irenaeus_n bishop_n of_o lion_n and_o martyr_n and_o be_v not_o oppose_v and_o condemn_v by_o any_o one_o doctor_n of_o the_o church_n of_o those_o time_n that_o doctrine_n be_v believe_v and_o teach_v by_o the_o most_o eminent_a father_n of_o that_o age_n next_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o oppose_v by_o none_o but_o the_o former_a part_n of_o the_o proposition_n be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o latter_a be_v also_o true_a the_o major_n of_o this_o syllogism_n and_o the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o minor_a i_o suppose_v will_v need_v no_o proof_n with_o they_o that_o consider_v that_o these_o here_o mention_v be_v equal_a in_o number_n to_o all_o the_o other_o ecclesiastical_a writer_n of_o that_o age_n of_o who_o there_o be_v any_o memory_n remain_v and_o in_o weight_n and_o worth_n infinite_o beyond_o they_o they_o be_v athenagoras_n theophilus_n antiochenus_fw-la egesippus_fw-la and_o hippolytus_n of_o who_o contradiction_n to_o this_o doctrine_n there_o be_v not_o extant_a neither_o in_o their_o work_n nor_o in_o story_n any_o print_n or_o footstep_n which_o if_o they_o or_o any_o of_o they_o have_v oppose_v it_o have_v be_v impossible_a consider_v the_o ecclesiastical_a story_n of_o their_o time_n be_v write_v by_o the_o profess_a enemy_n of_o the_o millinary_n doctrine_n who_o can_v they_o have_v find_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o monument_n of_o antiquity_n to_o have_v put_v in_o the_o balance_n against_o justin_n martyr_n and_o irenaeus_n no_o doubt_n will_v not_o have_v bury_v it_o in_o silence_n which_o yet_o they_o do_v neither_o vouch_v for_o their_o opinion_n any_o one_o of_o more_o antiquity_n than_o dionysius_n alexandrinus_n who_o live_v say_v eusebius_n nostra_fw-la aetate_fw-la in_o our_o age_n but_o certain_o in_o the_o latter_a part_n of_o the_o three_o century_n for_o tatianus_n because_o a_o heretic_n i_o reckon_v not_o in_o this_o number_n and_o if_o any_o man_n say_v that_o before_o his_o fall_n he_o write_v many_o book_n i_o say_v it_o be_v true_a but_o withal_o will_v have_v it_o remember_v that_o he_o be_v justin_n martyr_n scholar_n and_o therefore_o in_o all_o probability_n of_o his_o master_n faith_n rather_o than_o against_o it_o all_o that_o be_v extant_a of_o he_o one_o way_n or_o other_o be_v but_o this_o in_o s._n hierome_n de_fw-fr script_n eccles_n justini_n martyris_fw-la sectator_n fuit_fw-la now_o for_o the_o other_o part_n of_o the_o minor_a that_o the_o foremention_v father_n do_v believe_v and_o teach_v this_o doctrine_n and_o first_o for_o papias_n that_o he_o teach_v it_o it_o be_v confess_v by_o eusebius_n the_o enemy_n of_o this_o doctrine_n lib._n 3._o hist_o eccles_n c._n 33._o in_o these_o word_n other_o thing_n beside_o the_o same_o author_n papias_n declare_v that_o they_o come_v to_o he_o as_o it_o be_v by_o unwritten_a tradition_n wherein_o he_o affirm_v that_o after_o the_o resurrection_n of_o all_o flesh_n from_o the_o dead_a there_o shall_v be_v a_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n continue_v and_o establish_v for_o a_o thousand_o year_n upon_o earth_n after_o a_o humane_a and_o corporeal_a manner_n the_o same_o be_v confess_v by_o s._n hierome_n another_o enemy_n to_o this_o opinion_n descript_n eccles_n s._n 29._o papias_n the_o auditor_n of_o john_n bishop_n of_o hieropolis_n be_v say_v to_o have_v teach_v the_o judaical_a tradition_n of_o a_o thousand_o year_n who_o irenaeus_n and_o apollinarius_n follow_v and_o in_o his_o preface_n upon_o the_o commentary_n of_o victorinus_n upon_o the_o apocalypse_n thus_o he_o write_v before_o he_o papias_n bishop_n of_o hieropolis_n and_o nepos_n bishop_n in_o the_o part_n of_o egypt_n teach_v as_o victorinus_n do_v touch_v the_o kingdom_n of_o the_o thousand_o year_n the_o same_o be_v testify_v by_o irenaeus_n lib._n 5._o cont_n she_o c._n 33._o where_o have_v at_o large_a set_v forth_o this_o doctrine_n he_o confirm_v it_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o papias_n in_o these_o word_n papias_n also_o the_o auditor_n of_o john_n the_o familiar_a friend_n of_o policarpus_fw-la a_o ancient_a man_n have_v testify_v by_o write_v these_o thing_n in_o the_o four_o of_o his_o book_n for_o he_o have_v write_v five_o and_o concern_v papias_n thus_o much_o that_o justin_n martyr_n be_v of_o the_o same_o belief_n it_o be_v confess_v by_o sixtus_n senensis_n biblioth_n stae_fw-la l._n 6._o an._n 347._o by_o feverdentius_fw-la in_o his_o premonition_n before_o the_o five_o last_o chapter_n of_o the_o 5_o book_n of_o irenaeus_n by_o pamelius_n in_o antidoto_fw-la ad_fw-la tertul._n parad_a paradox_n 14._o that_o s._n melito_n bishop_n of_o sardis_n hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n be_v confess_v by_o pamelius_n in_o the_o same_o place_n and_o thereupon_o it_o be_v that_o gennadius_n massiliensis_n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr eccles_n dogmatibus_fw-la call_v the_o follower_n of_o this_o opinion_n melitani_fw-la as_o the_o same_o pamelius_n testify_v in_o his_o note_n upon_o that_o fragment_n of_o tertullian_n de_fw-fr spe_fw-la fidelium_fw-la irenaeus_n his_o faith_n in_o this_o point_n be_v likewise_o confess_v by_o eusebius_n in_o the_o place_n before_o quote_v in_o these_o word_n he_o papias_n be_v the_o author_n of_o the_o like_a error_n to_o most_o of_o the_o writer_n of_o the_o church_n who_o allege_v the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o man_n for_o a_o defence_n of_o their_o side_n as_o to_o irenaeus_n and_o whosoever_o else_o seem_v to_o be_v of_o the_o same_o opinion_n with_o he_o by_o s._n hierome_n in_o the_o place_n above_o cite_v the_o script_n eccles_n s._n 29._o again_o in_o lib._n ezek._n 11._o in_o these_o word_n for_o neither_o do_v we_o
external_a reason_n why_o we_o believe_v it_o whereunto_o the_o testimony_n of_o the_o jew_n enemy_n of_o christ_n add_v no_o small_a moment_n for_o the_o authority_n of_o some_o part_n of_o it_o that_o whatsoever_o stand_v upon_o the_o same_o ground_n of_o universal_a tradition_n with_o scripture_n may_v just_o challenge_v belief_n as_o well_o as_o scripture_n but_o that_o no_o doctrine_n not_o write_v in_o scripture_n can_v just_o pretend_v to_o as_o full_a tradition_n as_o the_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o believe_v it_o with_o that_o degree_n of_o faith_n wherewith_o we_o believe_v the_o scripture_n that_o it_o be_v unreasonable_a to_o think_v that_o he_o that_o read_v the_o scripture_n and_o use_v all_o mean_n appoint_v for_o this_o purpose_n with_o a_o earnest_a desire_n and_o with_o no_o other_o end_n but_o to_o find_v the_o will_n of_o god_n and_o obey_v it_o if_o he_o mistake_v the_o meaning_n of_o some_o doubtful_a place_n and_o fall_v unwilling_o into_o some_o error_n unto_o which_o no_o vice_n or_o passion_n betray_v he_o and_o be_v willing_a to_o hear_v reason_n from_o any_o man_n that_o will_v undertake_v to_o show_v he_o his_o error_n i_o say_v that_o it_o be_v unreasonable_a to_o think_v that_o a_o god_n of_o goodness_n will_v impute_v such_o a_o error_n to_o such_o a_o man_n against_o the_o second_o it_o be_v demonstrate_v unto_o i_o that_o the_o place_n i_o build_v on_o so_o confident_o be_v no_o argument_n at_o all_o for_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o succession_n of_o pastor_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n but_o a_o very_a strong_a argument_n against_o it_o first_o no_o argument_n for_o it_o because_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a nor_o can_v ever_o be_v prove_v that_o s._n paul_n speak_v there_o of_o any_o succession_n ephes_n 4.11_o 12_o 13._o for_o let_v that_o be_v grant_v which_o be_v desire_v that_o in_o the_o 13._o ver_fw-la by_o until_o we_o all_o meet_v be_v mean_v until_o all_o the_o child_n of_o 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the_o gentile_n and_o s._n john_n the_o evangelist_n and_o prophet_n do_v at_o this_o very_a time_n by_o their_o writing_n though_o not_o by_o their_o person_n do_v the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n consummate_v the_o saint_n and_o edify_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n second_o it_o can_v be_v show_v or_o prove_v from_o hence_o that_o there_o be_v or_o be_v to_o be_v any_o such_o succession_n because_o s._n paul_n here_o tell_v we_o only_o that_o he_o give_v such_o in_o the_o time_n past_a not_o that_o he_o promise_v such_o in_o the_o time_n to_o come_v three_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o god_n promise_v no_o such_o succession_n because_o it_o be_v not_o certain_a that_o he_o have_v make_v good_a any_o such_o promise_n for_o who_o be_v so_o impudent_a as_o to_o pretend_v that_o there_o be_v now_o and_o have_v be_v in_o all_o age_n since_o christ_n some_o apostle_n and_o some_o prophet_n and_o some_o evangelist_n and_o some_o pastor_n and_o teacher_n especial_o such_o as_o he_o here_o speak_v of_o that_o be_v endow_v with_o such_o gift_n as_o christ_n give_v upon_o his_o ascension_n of_o which_o he_o speak_v in_o the_o 8_o ver_fw-la say_v he_o lead_v captivity_n captive_a and_o give_v gift_n unto_o man_n and_o that_o those_o gift_n be_v man_n endow_v with_o extraordinary_a power_n and_o supernatural_a gift_n it_o be_v apparent_a because_o these_o word_n and_o he_o give_v some_o apostle_n some_o prophet_n etc._n etc._n be_v add_v by_o way_n of_o explication_n and_o illustration_n of_o that_o which_o be_v say_v before_o and_o he_o give_v gift_n unto_o man_n and_o if_o any_o man_n except_o hereunto_o that_o though_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o evangelist_n be_v extraordinary_a and_o for_o the_o plantation_n of_o the_o gospel_n yet_o pastor_n be_v ordinary_a and_o for_o continuance_n i_o answer_v it_o be_v true_a some_o pastor_n be_v ordinary_a and_o for_o continuance_n but_o not_o such_o as_o be_v here_o speak_v of_o not_o such_o as_o be_v endow_v with_o the_o strange_a and_o heavenly_a gift_n which_o christ_n give_v not_o only_o to_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o evangelist_n but_o to_o the_o inferior_a pastor_n and_o doctor_n of_o his_o church_n at_o the_o first_o plantation_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o s._n paul_n in_o the_o one_a to_o the_o corinth_n 12.28_o to_o which_o place_n we_o be_v refer_v by_o the_o margin_n of_o the_o vulgar_a translation_n for_o the_o explication_n of_o this_o place_v this_o gift_n of_o teach_v among_o and_o prefer_v it_o before_o many_o other_o miraculous_a gift_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n pastor_n there_o be_v still_o in_o the_o church_n but_o not_o such_o as_o titus_n and_o timothy_n and_o apollo_n and_o barnabas_n not_o such_o as_o can_v just_o pretend_v to_o immediate_a inspiration_n and_o illumination_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o therefore_o see_v there_o neither_o be_v nor_o have_v be_v for_o many_o age_n in_o the_o church_n such_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n etc._n etc._n as_o here_o be_v speak_v of_o it_o be_v certain_a he_o promise_v none_o or_o otherwise_o we_o must_v blasphemous_o charge_v he_o with_o breach_n of_o his_o promise_n second_o i_o answer_v that_o if_o by_o dedit_fw-la he_o give_v be_v mean_v promisit_fw-la he_o promise_v for_o ever_o then_o all_o be_v promise_v and_o all_o shall_v have_v continue_v if_o by_o dedit_fw-la be_v not_o mean_v promisit_fw-la than_o he_o promise_v none_o such_o nor_o may_v we_o expect_v any_o such_o by_o virtue_n of_o or_o warrant_v from_o this_o text_n that_o be_v here_o allege_a and_o thus_o much_o for_o the_o first_o assumpt_n which_o be_v that_o the_o place_n be_v no_o argument_n for_o a_o infallible_a succession_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n now_o for_o the_o second_o that_o it_o be_v a_o strong_a argument_n against_o it_o thus_o i_o make_v it_o good_a the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o evangelist_n and_o pastor_n which_o our_o saviour_n give_v upon_o his_o ascension_n be_v give_v by_o he_o that_o they_o may_v consummate_v the_o saint_n do_v the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n edify_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n until_o we_o all_o come_v into_o the_o unity_n of_o faith_n that_o we_o be_v not_o like_a child_n waver_v and_o carry_v up_o and_o down_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n etc._n etc._n that_o then_o be_v do_v not_o now_o in_o their_o own_o person_n and_o by_o oral_a instruction_n do_v the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n to_o the_o intent_n we_o may_v be_v keep_v from_o waver_v and_o be_v carry_v up_o and_o down_o with_o every_o wind_n of_o doctrine_n therefore_o they_o do_v this_o some_o other_o way_n now_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n by_o which_o they_o can_v do_v it_o but_o by_o their_o writing_n and_o therefore_o by_o their_o writing_n they_o do_v it_o therefore_o by_o their_o writing_n and_o believe_v of_o they_o we_o be_v to_o be_v keep_v from_o waver_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n therefore_o the_o scripture_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n and_o evangelist_n be_v our_o guide_n therefore_o not_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n finis_fw-la a_o answer_n to_o some_o passage_n in_o rushworths_n dialogue_n begin_v at_o the_o three_o dialogue_n section_n 12._o p._n 181._o ed._n paris_n 1654._o about_o tradition_n london_n print_v for_o james_n adamson_n at_o the_o angel_n in_o s._n paul_n churchyard_n 1687._o a_o answer_n to_o some_o passage_n in_o rushworths_n dialogue_n begin_v at_o the_o three_o dialogue_n §._o 12._o p._n 181._o ed._n paris_n 1654._o about_o tradition_n uncle_n do_v you_o think_v there_o be_v such_o a_o city_n as_o rome_n or_o constantinople_n nephew_n that_o i_o do_v i_o will_v i_o know_v what_o i_o ask_v as_o well_o chillingworth_n first_o i_o shall_v have_v answer_v that_o in_o propriety_n of_o speech_n i_o can_v not_o say_v that_o i_o
know_v it_o but_o that_o i_o do_v as_o undoubted_o believe_v it_o as_o those_o thing_n which_o i_o do_v know_v for_o though_o as_o i_o conceive_v we_o may_v be_v proper_o say_v to_o believe_v that_o which_o we_o know_v yet_o we_o can_v say_v true_o that_o we_o know_v that_o which_o we_o only_o believe_v upon_o report_n and_o hearsay_n be_v it_o never_o so_o constant_a never_o so_o general_a for_o see_v the_o generality_n of_o man_n be_v make_v up_o of_o particular_n and_o every_o particular_a man_n may_v deceive_v and_o be_v deceive_v it_o be_v not_o impossible_a though_o exceed_o improbable_a that_o all_o man_n shall_v conspire_v to_o do_v so_o yet_o i_o deny_v not_o that_o the_o popular_a phrase_n of_o speech_n will_v very_o well_o bear_v that_o we_o may_v say_v we_o know_v that_o which_o in_o truth_n we_o only_o believe_v provide_v the_o ground_n of_o our_o belief_n be_v moral_o certain_a neither_o do_v i_o take_v any_o exception_n to_o the_o nephew_n answer_n make_v to_o his_o uncle_n 2_o 3_o 4._o and_o 5._o interrogatory_n but_o grant_v willing_o as_o to_o the_o first_o that_o it_o be_v not_o much_o material_a whether_o i_o remember_v or_o not_o any_o particular_a author_n of_o such_o a_o general_a and_o constant_a report_n then_o that_o the_o testimony_n of_o one_o or_o two_o witness_n though_o never_o so_o credible_a can_v add_v nothing_o to_o that_o belief_n which_o be_v already_o at_o the_o height_n nay_o perhaps_o that_o my_o own_o see_v these_o city_n will_v make_v no_o accession_n add_v no_o degree_n to_o the_o strength_n and_o firmness_n of_o my_o faith_n concern_v this_o matter_n only_o it_o will_v change_v the_o kind_n of_o my_o assent_n and_o make_v i_o know_v that_o which_o former_o i_o do_v but_o believe_v to_o the_o four_o that_o seem_a reason_n be_v not_o much_o to_o be_v regard_v against_o sense_n or_o experience_n and_o moral_a certainty_n but_o withal_o i_o shall_v have_v tell_v my_o uncle_n that_o i_o fear_v his_o supposition_n be_v hardly_o possible_a and_o that_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o thing_n will_v not_o admit_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v any_o great_a nay_o any_o probable_a reason_n invent_v to_o persuade_v i_o that_o there_o never_o be_v such_o a_o city_n as_o london_n and_o therefore_o if_o any_o man_n shall_v go_v about_o to_o persuade_v i_o that_o there_o never_o be_v such_o a_o city_n as_o london_n that_o there_o be_v no_o such_o man_n as_o call_v themselves_o or_o be_v call_v by_o other_o protestant_n in_o england_n in_o the_o day_n of_o q._n elizabeth_n perhaps_o such_o a_o man_n wit_n may_v delight_v i_o but_o his_o reason_n sure_o will_v never_o persuade_v i_o hitherto_o we_o shall_v have_v go_v hand_n in_o hand_n together_o but_o whereas_o in_o the_o next_o place_n he_o say_v in_o like_a manner_n than_o you_o do_v not_o doubt_v but_o a_o catholic_n live_v in_o a_o catholic_n country_n may_v undoubted_o know_v what_o be_v the_o public_a religion_n of_o his_o country_n in_o his_o father_n day_n and_o that_o so_o assure_o that_o it_o be_v a_o mere_a madness_n for_o he_o to_o doubt_v thereof_o i_o shall_v have_v crave_v leave_n to_o tell_v my_o uncle_n that_o he_o presume_v too_o far_o upon_o his_o nephew_n yield_v disposition_n for_o that_o as_o it_o be_v a_o far_o more_o easy_a thing_n to_o know_v and_o more_o authentical_o testify_v that_o there_o be_v some_o man_n call_v protestant_n by_o themselves_o and_o other_o than_o what_o opinion_n these_o protestant_n hold_v divers_a man_n hold_v divers_a thing_n which_o yet_o be_v all_o call_v by_o this_o name_n so_o be_v it_o far_o more_o easy_a for_o a_o roman_n catholic_n to_o know_v that_o in_o his_o father_n day_n there_o be_v some_o man_n for_o their_o outward_a communion_n with_o and_o subordination_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n call_v roman_n catholic_n than_o to_o know_v what_o be_v the_o religion_n of_o those_o man_n who_o go_v under_o this_o name_n for_o they_o may_v be_v as_o different_a one_o from_o another_o in_o their_o belief_n as_o some_o protestant_n be_v from_o other_o as_o for_o example_n have_v i_o live_v before_o the_o lateran_n council_n which_o condemn_v berengarius_fw-la possible_o i_o may_v have_v know_v that_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v part_n of_o the_o public_a doctrine_n of_o my_o country_n but_o whether_o the_o real_a absence_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n after_o consecration_n and_o their_o transubstantiation_n into_o christ_n body_n be_v likewise_o catholic_n doctrine_n at_o that_o time_n that_o i_o can_v not_o have_v know_v see_v that_o all_o man_n be_v at_o liberty_n to_o hold_v it_o be_v so_o or_o it_o be_v not_o so_o moreover_o i_o shall_v have_v tell_v my_o uncle_n that_o live_v now_o i_o know_v it_o be_v catholic_n doctrine_n that_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o bless_a enjoy_v the_o vision_n of_o god_n but_o if_o i_o have_v live_v in_o the_o reign_n of_o pope_n john_n the_o xxii_o i_o shall_v not_o have_v know_v that_o then_o it_o be_v so_o consider_v that_o many_o good_a catholic_n before_o that_o time_n have_v believe_v and_o then_o even_o the_o pope_n himself_o do_v believe_v the_o contrary_a and_o he_o be_v warrant_v by_o bellarmine_n for_o do_v so_o because_o the_o church_n have_v not_o then_o define_v it_o i_o shall_v have_v tell_v he_o further_o that_o either_o catholic_n of_o the_o present_a time_n do_v so_o differ_v in_o their_o belief_n that_o what_o some_o hold_v lawful_a and_o pious_a other_o condemn_v as_o unlawful_a and_o impious_a or_o else_o that_o all_o now_o consent_n and_o consequent_o make_v it_o catholic_n doctrine_n that_o it_o be_v not_o unlawful_a to_o make_v the_o usual_a picture_n of_o the_o trinity_n and_o to_o set_v they_o in_o church_n to_o be_v adore_v but_o have_v i_o live_v in_o s._n augustine_n time_n i_o shall_v then_o have_v be_v teach_v another_o lesson_n to_o wit_n that_o this_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n be_v impious_a and_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n catholic_n i_o shall_v have_v tell_v he_o that_o now_o i_o be_v teach_v that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n be_v a_o apostolic_a tradition_n but_o have_v i_o live_v 600_o year_n since_o and_o find_v that_o in_o all_o antiquity_n there_o be_v no_o use_n of_o they_o i_o shall_v either_o have_v think_v the_o primitive_a church_n no_o faithful_a steward_n in_o defraud_v man_n soul_n of_o this_o treasure_n intend_v by_o god_n to_o they_o and_o so_o necessary_a for_o they_o or_o rather_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n now_o practise_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o then_o catholic_n i_o shall_v have_v tell_v he_o that_o the_o general_a practice_n of_o roman_a catholic_n now_o teach_v i_o that_o it_o be_v a_o pious_a thing_n to_o offer_v incense_n and_o taper_n to_o the_o saint_n and_o to_o their_o picture_n but_o have_v i_o live_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n i_o shall_v with_o the_o church_n have_v condemn_v it_o in_o the_o collyridians_n as_o heretical_a i_o shall_v have_v represent_v to_o he_o erasmus_n his_o complaint_n against_o the_o protestant_n who_o depart_v from_o the_o roman_a church_n occasion_v the_o determine_n and_o exact_v the_o belief_n of_o many_o point_n as_o necessary_a wherein_o before_o luther_n man_n enjoy_v the_o liberty_n of_o their_o judgement_n and_o tongue_n and_o pen_n antea_fw-la say_v he_o licebat_fw-la varias_fw-la agitare_fw-la quaestiones_fw-la de_fw-la potestate_fw-la pontificis_fw-la de_fw-la condonationibus_fw-la de_fw-la restituendo_fw-la de_fw-la purgatorio_fw-la nunc_fw-la tutum_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la hiscere_fw-la ne_fw-fr de_fw-fr his_o quidèm_n quae_fw-la pie_n verèque_fw-la dicuntur_fw-la et_fw-la credere_fw-la cogimur_fw-la quod_fw-la homo_fw-la gignit_fw-la ex_fw-la se_fw-la opera_fw-la meritoria_fw-la quod_fw-la benefact_n be_v meretur_fw-la vitam_fw-la aeternam_fw-la etiam_fw-la de_fw-la condigno_fw-la quòd_fw-la b._n virgo_fw-la potest_fw-la imperare_fw-la filio_fw-la cum_fw-la patre_fw-la regnanti_fw-la ut_fw-la exaudiat_fw-la huius_fw-la aut_fw-la illius_fw-la preces_fw-la aliaque_fw-la permulta_fw-la ad_fw-la quae_fw-la piae_fw-la mentes_fw-la inhorrescunt_fw-la and_o from_o hence_o i_o shall_v have_v collect_v as_o i_o think_v very_o probable_o that_o it_o be_v not_o then_o such_o a_o know_a and_o certain_a thing_n what_o be_v the_o catholic_n faith_n in_o many_o point_n which_o now_o be_v determine_v but_o that_o divers_a man_n who_o hold_v external_a communion_n with_o that_o church_n which_o now_o hold_v these_o as_o matter_n of_o faith_n conceive_v themselves_o no_o way_n bind_v to_o do_v so_o but_o at_o liberty_n to_o hold_v as_o they_o see_v reason_n i_o shall_v have_v show_v he_o by_o the_o confession_n of_o another_o learned_a catholic_n that_o through_o the_o negligence_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o former_a age_n and_o the_o indiscreet_a devotion_n of_o the_o people_n many_o opinion_n and_o practice_n be_v bring_v into_o the_o
contemporary_a writer_n oppose_v or_o condemn_v it_o and_o beside_o they_o speak_v not_o as_o doctor_n but_o as_o witness_n not_o as_o of_o their_o own_o private_a opinion_n but_o as_o apostolic_a tradition_n and_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n horantius_fw-la and_o out_o of_o he_o franciscus_n a_o sancta_fw-la clara_n teach_v we_o that_o under_o the_o gospel_n there_o be_v no_o where_o extant_a any_o precept_n of_o invocate_a saint_n and_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o apostle_n reason_n of_o their_o giving_z no_o such_o precept_n be_v lest_o the_o convert_a gentile_n may_v think_v themselves_o draw_v over_o from_o one_o kind_n of_o idolatry_n to_o another_o if_o this_o reason_n be_v good_a i_o hope_v then_o the_o position_n whereof_o it_o be_v the_o reason_n be_v true_a viz._n that_o the_o apostle_n do_v neither_o command_n nor_o teach_v nor_o advise_v nor_o persuade_v the_o convert_v gentile_n to_o invocate_v saint_n for_o the_o reason_n here_o render_v serve_v for_o all_o alike_o and_o if_o they_o do_v not_o and_o for_o this_o reason_n do_v not_o so_o how_o then_o in_o god_n name_n come_v invocation_n of_o saint_n to_o be_v a_o apostolic_a tradition_n the_o doctrine_n of_o purgatory_n indulgence_n and_o prayer_n to_o deliver_v soul_n out_o of_o purgatory_n be_v so_o close_o conjoin_v that_o they_o must_v either_o stand_v or_o fall_v together_o at_o least_o the_o first_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o the_o other_o two_o if_o that_o be_v not_o apostolic_a tradition_n the_o rest_n can_v be_v so_o and_o if_o that_o be_v so_o what_o mean_v the_o author_n of_o the_o book_n of_o wisdom_n to_o tell_v we_o that_o after_o death_n the_o soul_n of_o the_o righteous_a be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o god_n and_o there_o shall_v no_o torment_n touch_v they_o what_o mean_v s._n john_n to_o teach_v we_o that_o they_o be_v bless_v which_o die_v in_o the_o lord_n for_o that_o they_o rest_v from_o their_o labour_n but_o above_o all_o what_o mean_v bishop_n fisher_n in_o his_o confutation_n of_o luther_n assertion_n so_o to_o prevaricate_v as_o to_o i_o he_o seem_v to_o do_v in_o the_o 18_o art_n in_o say_v multos_fw-la fortasse_fw-la movet_fw-la etc._n etc._n peradventure_o many_o be_v move_v not_o to_o place_v too_o great_a faith_n in_o indulgence_n because_o the_o use_n of_o they_o may_v seem_v not_o of_o long_o stand_v in_o the_o church_n and_o a_o very_a late_a invention_n among_o christian_n to_o who_o i_o answer_v that_o apostle_n that_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o all_o the_o roman_a doctrine_n be_v teach_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n it_o be_v not_o certain_a by_o who_o they_o begin_v first_o to_o be_v teach_v yet_o some_o use_n there_o be_v of_o they_o as_o they_o say_v very_o ancient_a among_o the_o roman_n which_o we_o be_v give_v to_o understand_v by_o the_o station_n which_o be_v so_o frequent_v in_o that_o city_n moreover_o they_o say_v gregory_n the_o first_o grant_v some_o in_o his_o time_n and_o after_o caeterum_fw-la ut_fw-la dicere_fw-la caepimus_fw-la etc._n etc._n but_o as_o we_o be_v say_v there_o be_v many_o thing_n of_o which_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n no_o mention_n be_v make_v which_o yet_o upon_o doubt_n arise_v be_v become_v perspicuous_a through_o the_o diligence_n of_o after_o time_n certain_o to_o return_v to_o our_o business_n no_o orthodox_n man_n now_o doubt_n whether_o there_o be_v a_o purgatory_n of_o which_o yet_o among_o the_o ancient_n there_o be_v make_v very_o rare_a or_o no_o mention_n moreover_o the_o greek_n to_o this_o very_a day_n believe_v not_o purgatory_n who_o so_o will_v let_v he_o read_v the_o writing_n of_o the_o ancient_a greek_n and_o i_o think_v he_o shall_v find_v no_o speech_n of_o purgatory_n or_o else_o very_o rare_o the_o latin_n also_o receive_v not_o this_o verity_n all_o at_o once_o but_o by_o little_a and_o little_a neither_o be_v the_o faith_n whether_o of_o purgatory_n or_o indulgence_n so_o necessary_a in_o the_o primitive_a church_n as_o now_o it_o be_v for_o then_o charity_n be_v so_o fervent_a that_o every_o one_o be_v most_o ready_a to_o die_v for_o christ_n crime_n be_v very_o rare_a and_o those_o which_o be_v be_v punish_v by_o the_o canon_n with_o great_a severity_n but_o now_o a_o great_a part_n of_o the_o people_n will_v rather_o put_v off_o christianity_n than_o suffer_v the_o rigour_n of_o the_o canon_n that_o not_o without_o the_o great_a wisdom_n of_o the_o holy_a spirit_n it_o have_v come_v to_o pass_v that_o after_o the_o course_n of_o so_o many_o year_n the_o faith_n of_o purgatory_n and_o the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n have_v be_v by_o the_o orthodox_n general_o receive_v as_o long_o as_o there_o be_v no_o care_n of_o purgatory_n no_o man_n look_v after_o indulgence_n for_o all_o the_o credit_n of_o indulgence_n depend_v on_o that_o take_v away_o purgatory_n and_o what_o need_n be_v there_o of_o indulgence_n we_o therefore_o consider_v that_o purgatory_n be_v a_o long_a while_o unknown_a that_o after_o partly_o upon_o revelation_n partly_o upon_o scripture_n it_o be_v believe_v by_o some_o and_o that_o so_o at_o length_n the_o faith_n of_o it_o be_v most_o general_o receive_v by_o the_o orthodox_n church_n shall_v easy_o find_v out_o some_o reason_n of_o indulgence_n see_v therefore_o it_o be_v so_o late_o ere_o purgatory_n be_v know_v and_o receive_v by_o the_o universal_a church_n who_o now_o can_v wonder_v touch_v indulgence_n that_o in_o the_o primitive_a church_n there_o be_v no_o use_n of_o they_o indulgence_n therefore_o begin_v after_o man_n have_v tremble_v a_o while_n at_o the_o torment_n of_o purgatory_n for_o than_o it_o be_v credible_a the_o holy_a father_n begin_v to_o think_v more_o careful_o by_o what_o mean_n they_o may_v provide_v for_o their_o flock_n a_o remedy_n against_o those_o torment_n for_o they_o especial_o who_o have_v not_o time_n enough_o to_o fulfil_v the_o penance_n which_o the_o canon_n enjoin_v erasmus_n tell_v we_o of_o himself_o that_o though_o he_o do_v certain_o know_v and_o can_v prove_v that_o auricular_a confession_n such_o as_o be_v in_o use_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o of_o divine_a institution_n yet_o he_o will_v not_o say_v so_o because_o he_o conceive_v confession_n a_o great_a restraint_n from_o sin_n and_o very_o profitable_a for_o the_o time_n he_o live_v in_o and_o therefore_o think_v it_o expedient_a that_o man_n shall_v rather_o by_o error_n hold_v that_o necessary_a and_o command_v which_o be_v only_o profitable_a and_o advise_v than_o by_o believe_v though_o true_o the_o nonnecessity_n of_o it_o to_o neglect_v the_o use_n of_o that_o as_o by_o experience_n we_o see_v most_o man_n do_v which_o be_v so_o beneficial_a if_o he_o think_v so_o of_o confession_n and_o yet_o think_v it_o not_o fit_a to_o speak_v his_o mind_n why_o may_v he_o not_o think_v the_o like_a of_o other_o point_n and_o yet_o out_o of_o discretion_n and_o charity_n hold_v his_o peace_n and_o why_o may_v not_o other_o of_o his_o time_n do_v so_o as_o well_o as_o he_o and_o if_o so_o how_o shall_v i_o be_v assure_v that_o in_o the_o age_n before_o he_o there_o be_v not_o other_o man_n alike_o mind_v who_o though_o they_o know_v and_o see_v error_n and_o corruption_n in_o the_o church_n yet_o conceive_v more_o danger_n in_o the_o remedy_n than_o harm_n in_o the_o disease_n be_v content_v hoc_fw-la catone_n to_z let_v thing_n alone_o as_o they_o be_v lest_o by_o attempt_v to_o pluck_v the_o ivy_n out_o of_o the_o wall_n they_o may_v pull_v down_o the_o wall_n itself_o with_o which_o the_o ivy_n be_v so_o incorporate_v sir_n edwin_n sandys_n relate_v that_o in_o his_o travel_n he_o meet_v with_o divers_a man_n who_o though_o they_o believe_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v antichrist_n and_o his_o church_n antichristian_a yet_o think_v themselves_o not_o bind_v to_o separate_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o it_o nay_o thought_n themselves_o bind_v not_o to_o do_v so_o because_o the_o true_a church_n be_v to_o be_v the_o seat_n of_o antichrist_n from_o the_o communion_n whereof_o no_o man_n may_v divide_v himself_o upon_o any_o pretence_n whatsoever_o and_o much_o to_o this_o purpose_n be_v that_o which_o charron_n tell_v we_o in_o his_o three_o verité_fw-fr cap._n 4._o §_o 13.15_o that_o although_o all_o that_o which_o the_o protestant_n say_v false_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v true_a yet_o for_o all_o this_o they_o must_v not_o depart_v from_o it_o and_o again_o though_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n and_o the_o estate_n of_o the_o church_n be_v such_o that_o be_v as_o corrupt_v both_o in_o discipline_n and_o doctrine_n as_o they_o protestant_n pretend_v yet_o they_o must_v not_o go_v out_o of_o it_o both_o these_o assertion_n he_o prove_v at_o large_a in_o the_o abovecited_a paragraph_n with_o very_a many_o and_o very_o plausible_a reason_n which_o i_o
christian_n that_o it_o be_v fit_a and_o lawful_a to_o deny_v the_o laity_n the_o sacramental_a cup_n that_o it_o be_v expedient_a and_o for_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o church_n that_o the_o scripture_n shall_v be_v read_v and_o the_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n perpetual_o celebrate_v in_o a_o language_n which_o they_o understand_v not_o and_o to_o which_o for_o want_v of_o understanding_n unless_o s._n paul_n deceive_v we_o they_o can_v say_v amen_o or_o be_v it_o reasonable_a you_o shall_v desire_v we_o to_o believe_v you_o when_o your_o own_o man_n your_o own_o champion_n your_o own_o council_n confess_v the_o contrary_a do_v not_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n acknowledge_v plain_o that_o the_o custom_n which_o they_o ratify_v be_v contrary_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o the_o custom_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n and_o how_o then_o be_v it_o teach_v by_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n do_v not_o cajetan_n and_o lyranus_fw-la confess_v ingenuous_o that_o it_o follow_v evident_o from_o s._n paul_n that_o it_o be_v more_o for_o edification_n that_o the_o liturgy_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v in_o such_o a_o language_n as_o the_o assistant_n understand_v the_o like_a confession_n we_o have_v from_o other_o concern_v purgatory_n and_o indulgence_n other_o acknowledge_v the_o apostle_n never_o teach_v invocation_n of_o saint_n rhenanus_fw-la say_v as_o much_o touch_v auricular_a confession_n it_o be_v evident_a from_o peter_n lombard_n that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o transubstantiation_n be_v not_o a_o point_n of_o faith_n in_o his_o time_n from_o pius_n mirandula_n that_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n be_v no_o article_n much_o less_o a_o foundation_n of_o faith_n in_o his_o time_n bellarmine_n acknowledge_v that_o the_o saint_n enjoy_v the_o vision_n of_o god_n before_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n be_v no_o article_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o time_n of_o pope_n john_n the_o xxii_o but_o as_o the_o proverb_n be_v when_o thief_n fall_v out_o true_a man_n recover_v their_o good_n so_o how_o small_a and_o heartless_a the_o reverence_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v to_o ancient_a tradition_n can_v be_v more_o plain_o discover_v than_o by_o the_o quarrel_n which_o her_o champion_n have_v among_o themselves_o especial_o about_o the_o immaculate_a conception_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n the_o patron_n of_o the_o negative_a opinion_n cajetan_n bannes_n bandellus_fw-la and_o canus_n allege_v for_o it_o first_o a_o whole_a army_n of_o scripture_n council_n and_o father_n agree_v unanimous_o in_o this_o doctrine_n that_o only_a christ_n be_v free_a from_o sin_n then_o a_o innumerous_a multitude_n of_o father_n express_o affirm_v the_o very_a point_n in_o question_n not_o contradict_v by_o any_o of_o their_o contemporary_n or_o predecessor_n or_o indeed_o of_o their_o successor_n for_o many_o age_n all_o the_o holy_a father_n agree_v in_o this_o that_o the_o virgin_n mary_n be_v conceive_v in_o original_a sin_n so_o 5._o so_o in_o part_n primum_fw-la q._n 1._o art_n 8._o dub._n 5._o bannes_n cajetan_n bring_v for_o it_o fifteen_o father_n in_o his_o judgement_n irrefragable_a other_o produce_v two_o hundred_o bandellus_fw-la almost_o three_o hundred_o thus_o rom._n thus_o disp_n 51._o in_o ep._n ad_fw-la rom._n salmeron_n that_o all_o the_o holy_a father_n who_o have_v fall_v upon_o the_o mention_n of_o this_o matter_n with_o one_o mouth_n affirm_v that_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v conceive_v in_o original_a sin_n so_o 9_o so_o lib._n vii_o loc_fw-la cap._n 1._o cap._n 3._o n._n 9_o canus_n and_o after_o that_o the_o contrary_a doctrine_n have_v neither_o scripture_n nor_o tradition_n for_o it_o for_o say_v he_o no_o tradition_n can_v be_v derive_v unto_o we_o but_o by_o the_o bishop_n and_o holy_a father_n the_o successor_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o those_o ancient_a writer_n receive_v it_o not_o from_o their_o predecessor_n now_o against_o this_o stream_n of_o ancient_a writer_n when_o the_o contrary_a new_a doctrine_n come_v in_o and_o how_o it_o prevail_v it_o will_v be_v worth_a the_o consider_v the_o first_o that_o set_v it_o abroach_o be_v richardus_fw-la de_fw-la sancto_fw-la victore_fw-la as_o his_o countryman_n 12._o countryman_n omnium_fw-la express_v primus_fw-la christiferam_fw-la virginem_fw-la originalis_fw-la noxae_fw-la expertem_fw-la tenuit_fw-la de_fw-fr gestis_fw-la scotorum_fw-la iii_o 12._o johannes_n major_n testify_v of_o he_o he_o be_v express_o the_o first_o that_o hold_v the_o virgin_n mary_n free_a from_o original_a sin_n or_o he_o be_v the_o first_o that_o express_o hold_v so_o so_o after_o upon_o this_o false_a ground_n which_o have_v already_o take_v deep_a root_n in_o the_o heart_n of_o christian_n that_o it_o be_v impossible_a to_o give_v too_o much_o honour_n to_o she_o that_o be_v the_o mother_n of_o the_o saviour_n of_o the_o world_n like_o a_o ill_a weed_n it_o grow_v and_o spread_v apace_o so_o that_o in_o the_o council_n of_o xxxvi_o of_o sess_n xxxvi_o basil_n which_o binius_fw-la tell_v we_o be_v reprobate_v but_o in_o part_n to_o wit_n in_o the_o point_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o council_n and_o in_o the_o deposition_n of_o eugenius_n the_o pope_n it_o be_v define_v and_o declare_v to_o be_v holy_a doctrine_n and_o consonant_a to_o the_o worship_n of_o the_o church_n to_o the_o catholic_n faith_n to_o right_a reason_n and_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o to_o be_v approve_v hold_v and_o embrace_v by_o all_o catholic_n and_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v lawful_a for_o no_o man_n for_o the_o time_n to_o come_v to_o preach_v or_o teach_v the_o contrary_n the_o custom_n also_o of_o keep_v the_o feast_n of_o her_o holy_a conception_n which_o before_o be_v but_o particular_a to_o the_o roman_a and_o some_o other_o church_n and_o it_o seem_v somewhat_o neglect_v be_v then_o renew_v and_o make_v universal_a and_o command_v to_o be_v celebrate_v sub_fw-la nomine_fw-la conception_n be_v under_o the_o name_n of_o the_o conception_n binius_fw-la in_o a_o marginal_a note_n tell_v we_o indeed_o that_o they_o celebrate_v not_o this_o feast_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n by_o virtue_n of_o this_o renovation_n cum_fw-la esset_fw-la conciliabalum_fw-la be_v this_o be_v the_o act_n not_o of_o a_o council_n but_o of_o a_o conventicle_n yet_o he_o himself_o in_o his_o index_n style_v it_o the_o oecomenical_a council_n of_o basil_n and_o tell_v that_o it_o be_v reprobate_v only_o in_o two_o point_n of_o which_o this_o be_v none_o now_o who_o shall_v we_o believe_v binius_fw-la in_o his_o margin_n or_o binius_fw-la in_o his_o index_n yet_o in_o after-times_a pope_n sixtus_n iu._n and_o pius_n v._o think_v not_o this_o decree_n so_o bind_v but_o that_o they_o may_v and_o do_v again_o put_v life_n into_o the_o condemn_a opinion_n give_v liberty_n by_o their_o constitution_n to_o all_o man_n to_o hold_v and_o maintain_v either_o part_n either_o that_o the_o bless_a virgin_n be_v conceive_v with_o original_a sin_n or_o be_v not_o which_o constitution_n of_o sixtus_n iu._n the_o v._o the_o sess_n v._o council_n of_o trent_n renew_v and_o confirm_v but_o the_o wheel_n again_o turn_v and_o the_o negative_a opinion_n prevail_v the_o affirmative_a be_v banish_v first_o by_o a_o decree_n of_o paul_n v._o from_o all_o public_a sermon_n lecture_n conclusion_n and_o all_o public_a act_n whatsoever_o and_o since_o by_o another_o decree_n of_o gregory_n xv._o from_o all_o private_a write_n and_o private_a conference_n but_o yet_o all_o this_o content_v not_o the_o university_n of_o paris_n they_o as_o salmeron_n tell_v we_o admit_v none_o to_o the_o degree_n of_o doctor_n of_o divinity_n unless_o they_o have_v first_o bind_v themselves_o by_o solemn_a oath_n to_o maintain_v the_o immaculate_a conception_n of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n now_o i_o beseech_v you_o mr._n r._n consider_v your_o course_n with_o some_o indifference_n first_o you_o take_v authority_n upon_o you_o 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encouragement_n to_o all_o man_n to_o