Haeres 19. It accounteth marriage unclean with Tatianus Hae. 46. and condemneth wedlock in their Priests as the Manichees did in their chosen ones Aug. Ep. 74. With the same Hereticks it useth bread onely in the Communion Leo Ser. 4. de Quad. and placeth fasting in the destinction of meats Aug. de Morib Eccl. Manich l. 2. cap. 23. It thinks that all necessary doctrine is not contained in the Scripture with Montanus Ep. Haer. 48. It brageth of inherent righteousness with the Cathari Isid Etym. lib. 8. cap. de Haer. Christ It worshipeth Angels with the Angelici Aug. ad Quodvult cap. 39. It denyeth the preaching of the Word to be a note of the Church with the Donatists Aug. in variis locis and with them tyeth the Church to one set place Cass in Psal 60. It worshippeth the Cross with the Armenians Euthimius in Panoplia Thus in many other points it partaketh with the ancient Hereticks On them she puts a fairer Name But in effect they are the same You raz'd have the foundation Of all Truth and Religion You chang'd have the sincerity Of all the Grounds of Piety †As for example first the Article of Justification the efficient cause of our Salvation and Righteousness by the Scripture is Gods Love and Grace onely 2 Tim. 1.9 Tit. 2.11 Ephes 1.5 John 3.16 The Papists say God is moved by our preparing works So held Malvend in his Disputation with Bucer at Ratisbone so Bonaventure lib. 1. sen dist 41. Quaest 1. Touching the matter of our Justification the Scripture propoundeth nothing but Christs obedience Rom. 5.19 10.4 The Papists place our Righteousness before God in our own works and merits Con. Trid. s 6. c. 7. For the form as Schollars call it of Justification it is by the Scriptures the imputation of Christs Righteousness 2 Cor. 5.21 The Papists place it in our merits Rhemist 2 Tim. 4. s 4. Secondly It is a ground of Christian Religion that the Law cannot be fulfilled by us and that no man is to expect Righteousness or Salvation by it Rom. 8.3 Acts 15.10 Gal. 2.15 16. 3.10 The Papists maintain that men may keep the Law Con. Trid. s 6. c. 11. Yea and that they may perform more then the Law binds unto whence are sprung the works of Supererogation and Indulgences which that Council so highly prizeth Sess 21. c. 9. A third ground of Religion overthrown by them is that eternal death is due to every sin This the Scripture avoucheth Rom. 5.12 6.23 Ezek. 18.14 The Papists teach some sins to be in their own nature pardonable not deserving death Con. Trid. ses 6. c. 11. From which opinion arose Purgatory A fourth ground of Religion is the certainty of Salvation that Believers may be certain of Salvation is the Doctrine of the Scripture Rom. 8.38 Heb. 11.1 Luke 10.20 The Papists deny and say We can but have hope onely Con. Trid. s 6. c. 9. And yet therein they confound themselves for true hope cannot be deceived Rom. 5.5 It is the Anchor of the Soul Heb. 6.19 A fifth ground is that we cannot satisfie God for our least sins The Scripture ascribeth all satisfaction to Christ Heb. 1.3 1 Pet. 2.24 Rev. 1.5 The Papists maintain that we may and must satisfie making satisfaction a part of Penance Con. Trid. s 14. c. 13. A sixth ground is That the Scripture contains al Doctrine necessary for our Salvation so saith the Scripture 2 Tim. 3.16 the ancient Church Aug. lib. 3. cont lit Petil. c. 6. and others The Papists equal Traditions to the Scripture Con. Trid. s 4. A seventh ground is that the knowledge of the Scripture is needful to people unto Salvation and ought to be read of them thereto accords the holy Text John 5.39 Col. 3.16 The Ignorance therein is the cause of all error Mark 12.24 The Papists forbid the people the use of the Scripture Rhemists Preface and do all in the Church Service in an unknown Tongue Eighthly the Scripture teacheth us to worship God alone Mat. 4.10 The Papists Worship Angels and Saints yea their Images and Reliques their distinction of Latria and Dulia will not serve them for they pray to Creatures and that is Latria and they acknowledge that which they call Latria to be due to the Cross Tho. p. 3. sum Quaest 25. art 4. and Andrad lib. 9. Orth. expl Ninthly It is the Doctrine of the Scripture that Christ â—…ding to his humane Nature is onely in Heaven Acts 3.21 Papists say He is bodily present in the Eucharist Con. Trid. s 13. c. 6. Tenthly Christ ordained the Communion in both kinds commanding to do as he did 1 Cor. 11.24 Papists take the Cup from the Laity Con. Trid. s 21. c. 1. Thus as in these particulars so in many other it were easie to shew how the Church of Rome hath overthrown the main points of Holy Droctrine and have nothing left but the name of the Church and a title and shew of Religion Thou fall'st now to a railing vain And would'st by this thy Pope maintain Leave idle terms and shew some reason Else all these words come out of season Shew thou what Sects we do devise And wherein we deliver lies And prove it so that all may see Lest thou thy self the Lyar be Foxes and Dogs and Wolves thou nam'st And Thieves wherein thy self thou sham'st Or prove all this in us is true Else we return it back to you They call'd Saint Paul an Heretick (x) Acts 24.14 A Blabler (y) Acts 17.18 and a Schismatick (z) Acts 24.5 28.22 They said our Saviour was possest (a) John 8.24 And of his preaching made a Jest (b) Luke 16.14 Yet Paul no Heresie did teach Nor in the Church made any breach Nor yet our Saviour had a Devil He never did or preached evil Let Scripture try wherein we erre We crave no other Arbiter Convict us once by such a Judge We will not at your railings grudge Now that thy store is almost spent Thou com'st t'an old worn Argument Where was your Church some years ago Before the World did Luther know If briefly now I should deny The Churches Visibility It were a word sufficient To overthrow this prattlement Yet this I say and will maintain That even when blindness most did reign Our Church a certain being had Though not with outward Beauty clad Like to that holy portion (c) 1 Kings 19.18 In that great superstition Which over whelm'd all Israel After the Tribes from David (d) Davids Line fell Or as some Ears of purer seed Amidst a field of noysome weed So God had some even at that time When Antichrist was in his prime And now and then oat brake the Light Even in that long and irksome night Like as the Sun in lowring days Sometime sends forth his glittering Rays Long time ere Luther yet was born Whom you our Founder name in scorn There were which shew'd
stones The golden lights (y) Those seven Churches were represented by seven golden Candlesticks Apoc. 1.20 of Saint Johns age Are now become even Sathans cage Prove thou that Rome hath not declind From th' ancient Church by Pauls resind And then I 'le say thou hast done more Then ever Papist did before But for first turning of our Nation I trow thou nam'st it but for fashion For they that look in History Thereof can find no certainty Simon Zelotes as some say (z) Niceph. lib. 2. cap. 40. Did first Christs Gospel here display Even whilst that Emperour did reign By whom our Saviour Christ was slain (a) Gildas Lib. de victoria Aurelii Ambrosii Some say that he of Arimathy (b) Joseph who buried Christ In the year of grace sixty three From France by Philip (c) Philip the Apostle was sent over To us the faith for to discover (d) So saith Gildas also Hereto agreeth a learned man That ancient Clark Tertullian That by th' Apostles Britany Was turn'd to Christianity (e) Tertul. in his book against the Jewes amongst other places converted by the Apostles reckoneth divers parts of France and Britain So doth Origen Hom. 4. upon Ezechiel Pope Elutherius long agoe (f) About the year of Christ 180. As his Epistle plain did show (g) This Epistle hath been found out of the ancient Records of the Kings of England Unto King Lucius hither sent Ere Ethelbert was king of Kent (h) Which was about 600. years after Christ We hold the faith that then was taught But you the same do set at naught (i) Eleutherius referred King Lucius to the Scriptures clean against the Papists course now and called him Gods Vicar in his kingdom which title the Pope alone doth now challenge When Rome the Truth doth once forsake Then we of Rome our leaves must take If that our Church were Catholick To come to Church thou wouldst not stick If of the word thou knewst the sence Thou soon would'st leave that fond pretence Our Church that truth doth firm embrace Which all those hold in every place Who leaving mens traditions clean Upon the Scriptures onely lean (k) That is truly Catholick which every where alwayes and by all viz. true Christians is believed Vincen. cont Haer. c. 3. Let Papists prove that the word Catholick being taken in that sence ours is not a Catholick Church Popish Rime Prophets SO saith the Prophet Malachy There should be offered far and nigh A clean Oblation or Sacrifice (l) When you read Altar and Sacrifice you think streight that makes for Mass not knowing or not seeming to know the language of the Scripture From place where now the Sun doth rise To the going down of the same And what is that I pray thee name If it be not the holy Mass I will be a Protestant as I was (m) If thou hadst been of us thou wouldst have continued with us 1 John 2.19 In the eighteenth Psalm I found The whole world should hear their sound (n) Namely of the Apostles and their Doctrine prove our Doctrine to disagree with theirs And if this mark you do not want Presently I will recant Protestants Answer Prophets THou cit'st a text of Malachy (o) Mal. 1.11 Hoping to prove thy Mass thereby Alas the reason is but small And helps that Idol not at all In it God threatneth the Jews †The opening of the place of Malachy Who their great priviledge did abuse And thought the Lord was tied to them And unto their Jerusalem The Prophet tells that God elsewhere Will find out those which shall him fear And in an order without blame Shall call upon his holy Name Speaking to their capacity The Legal tearms he doth apply (p) So Joel 2.28 The holy Ghost foretelling the Spiritual enlightning which the people shall have under Christ doth deliver it under the names of Visions and Dreams which notwithstanding were not ordinary in the times of the Gospel And calls our Gospel like Service A pure and spotless (q) Pure in Christ being accepted of God through him 1 Pet. 2.5 Sacrifice What ground is here then for the Mass It still remaineth as it was A gross device defaming Christ Who is our true and onely Priest (r) See more of this hereafter in speaking more directly of the Mass The speech of David of the Skies (Å¿) Psal 19.3 But according to their account Psal 18. Into the Apostles Paul applies (t) Rom. 10.18 And saith their sound went far and near As in the stories doth appear Tell me I pray what good to you This place you have alledg'd can do It maketh nought for Popery Or for your idle trumpery Indeed the infamous Fame is spread Of Antichrist your hideous head And all God's Children him do see The man of sin (r) 2 Thes 2.3 alone to be Th' Apostles Faith was far disperst And here in England was rehearst â—ith then our Doctrine is the same â—o it belongs part of their fame Popish Rime Continuance THis is another mark most sure The Faith of Christ must still endure †Christs Faith must endure therefore Rome is the true Church A hot argument as though the Christian Faith could endure no where but at Rome According as our Saviour said When for Saint Peter he had pray'd Simon thy faith shall never fail The gates of Hell shall not prevail †True the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church of Christ but Christ in despight of the Devil will have a Church upon earth what makes this for Rome The holy Ghost your comforter Shall remain with you for ever And I my self your surest friend Will be with you unto the end Saint Paul hath the like speech There shall be alwayes men to preach Apostles (p) Some say they are Apostles and are not Rev. 2.2 Doctors and the like In the Church Catholick If this be not the Church of Rome (q) Because you say it we are bound to believe it Then will I be converted soon Protestants Answer Continuance YOu say Christs faith must still endure I yield that nothing is more sure And alwayes God a Church will have Though thereat Satan rage and rave (Å¿) Mat. 16.18 And that is the uttermost which can be collected out of that place It glads my heart that Christ hath praid Thereby I know my Faith is staid (t) Luke 22.32 Christs prayer there belongs to all believers as well as to Saint Peter John 17.20 The comfort of Gods holy Sp'rit Is each good Christians sole delight This proves there still a Church shall be And herein thou and I agree To prove the Church tied to one Sea Requireth yet a better Plea The Faith of Christ may still abide Though Rome should into Tibur slide Gods Spirit is free and is not bound (u) John 3.8 Within the lists of Romish ground
Christ sitteth at the right hand of God and yet you say also he is in body present at the Mass One Church Catholick Holy and Apostolick This is another mark truly The Church of God must be holy Holy Men Holy Service Ceremonies Sacrifice Sacraments and holy Days Are observ'd in her always As for the Saints and Martyrs all And Virgins which you Saints do call I ask you when they liv'd and where Whose names are in your Calendar In what Religion they died By whom they were Canonized †Who made the Pope a Saint-maker Prove that these agree with you And I will say your Faith is true If they were not your Company (a) You stand so much upon company that you will rather go to the Devil then want company Then is your Faith an Heresie Protestants Answer Holy THou sayst the Church we Holy call And so we do acknowledge all What in the Creed our Mouths confess Our Hearts within believe no less The Purity decay'd before (b) By Adams fall Unto his Church Christ doth restore That which is here in less degree The same in Heaven shall perfect be If thou knew'st Romes Impurity Thou would'st nor brag of Sanctity A sink of Sin a Sea of Evil A place possessed of the Devil (c) Gallus Senonensis wrote above 400. years agoe that Satan was let loose at Rome to destroy the Church Tho. Becket a Romish Saint acknowledged the common proverb to be true That there is no right at Rome The Bishop of Worster a Papist told Philpot That he thought the wickedness he saw in Rome made him an Heretick Your Popes bear Names of Holiness But none more full of Wickedness Let Stories speak enquire of them What Popes have worn the Diadem Some Hereticks (d) Marcellinus Pope sacrificed to the Idols of the Panims Platin. and Volater Liberius Pope an Arian Plat. Hiero. in Catal. scrip Eccl. in Chro. Anact 2. Pope an Acatian Plat. Vigilius an Eutychian Liber in breviatio Honorius a Monothelite condemned by the Roman Council under Adrian 2. some Murtherers (e) Pope Alexander 6. poysoned Gemes the Great Turks brother committed to his custody Hiero. Maurius Munst lib. 4. Cosm Pope Hildebrand hired one to kill the Emperour Benno Cardinalis Incestuous some (f) John 13. Pope committed incest with his two sisters Luithbrand lib. 6 He was wounded in adultery Platina Alexander 6. lay with his own daughter Vol. some Sorcerers (g) Hildebrand so saith Benno the Card. Pope Silvester 2. gave himself to the Devil to be Pope Pla. Joannes Stella many others were Magicians as John 21. Benedict 9. c. Some noted for their cruelty (h) Pope Alexander 6. cut off the hands and feet of one Mancinellus because he wrote against his filthiness Joh. 13 cut off the hands and noses of divers Cardinals Plat. Some for their monstrous Blasphemy (i) Pope Hildebrand threw the Sacrament into the fire Benno Card. Joh. 22. derided the Gospel held the souls to be mortal and was therefore by the Council of Constance 1. 2. ses 11. called a Devil Incarnate Leo 10. writing to Cardinal Bembus calleth the story of Christ a Fable Joh. 13. called the Devil to help him at Dice and drank to him Luithp lib 6. One Pope (k) Pope Sergius 3. a famous Lemman kept Whose Bastard to the Popedome crept (m) Joh. 11. or as some count Joh. 12. see Plat. and Luithprand Another granted liberty To practise beastly Sodomy (n) Sixtus 4. Granted liberty to the whole family of the Cardinal of St. Lucy in the three hot months June July August to use Sodomitâ—y Wesellus Groningensis in a Treatise de Indulg Papalibus at the foot of the License was written Fiat ut petitur Be it as it is requested Who but the Pope receiveth Rent Which from the Stews to him is sent (o) Every common Harlor in Rome paid a Fee to Pope Sixtus 4. Agrippa in his declam ad Lovan Let Rome and Venice make Report And all that thither do resort Who hath in Metre vile exprest The sin which Nature doth detest Let Beneventum name the man (p) The Archbishop of Beneventum Johannes a Casa Dean of the Popes Chamber used Sodomy and commended it in Italian Metre the book was printed in Venice by Trojanus Nauus see the writing of Paulus Vergerius against this Archbishop Do thou disprove it if thou can If this among your Heads be found How shall we think the Members sound Lord bless us from such holy Popes And Lord make void all Popish Hopes (l) Marozia Wife to Guido Like to your Popes your Service is Holy Service Wanting no store of blasphemies Which lest the People should espy You hide in Latine secrecy I need no better Witnesses Then your allowed Portesses Your Missals and your Letanies And all your forged Psalteries What we to God alone must give That to the Saints you do derive God will not from his Glory part (q) Isa 48.11 Yet you to Creatures it convert Unto the Saints you prayers make (r) There is neither commandement in the Scripture that we should pray to Saint nor promise that if we do pray to them we shall be heard upon which 2. every lawful prayer must be built And beg Salvation for their sake (Å¿) In their prayers upon the Sts. dayes still those words come in that by their merits we may have profit by their requests we may be delivered c. And Lombard saith the Saints do juvare nos merito lib. 4. dist 45. d. 10. You do adore a piece of Bread (t) When it is carried in procession for though it were true that the bread in the Sacrament is turned into the Body of Christ yet the Sacrament being ended it must needs return to the former nature And make fond (u) They are fond because touching the estate of the dead there is no certainty prayers for the dead You kneel down to a Cross of Wood †All hail O Cross our onely hope c. encrease righteousness to the godly and give pardon to the guilty In breviario infra Heb. 4. Quad. Thinking thereby to purchase good And for some things you would have done You pray the Virgin charge her Son (x) Roga patrem jube natum jure matris impera Pray the Father charge thy Son command by the right of a Mother In officio beatae Mariae With Christ you do Saint Francis joyn (y) They say that St. Francis could save all that shall live after him to the end of the world through his merits from everlasting death Flos beati Francis Conformit s Fram Tho. lib. 4 dist 4. art 3. And so his Glory do purloyn One Mediator we do know (z) 1 Tim. 2.5 That place proveth that there is but one Mediatour as well as that there is but one God You have joyn'd with him many mo (a) The
stile The simple People you beguile The Lord is weary of your feasts (k) Isa 1.14 And likes not your devised rests All days are like in holiness None holy more none holy less (l) The difference betwixt dayes is in observation and use and not in the nature of the day if one day had been in nature holier then another the Sabbath might not have been altered Paul thought his labour was in vain Where days distinctions did remain (m) Gal. 4.10 11. Thou hop'st to put us in some fear With speaking of the Kalendar (n) Saints Canonized Thou ask'st what Faith all those did hold Whose Names are found therein enroll'd I tell thee plain 't is nought to me What many a one there nam'd might be My faith 's not so set on the rack To seek strength from the Almanack Yet sure I am what we profess Some that are there believ'd no less (o) As Peter Paul Mary c. and some there named which suffered persecution in the ten first Persecutions of the Church Our Faith and theirs doth well agree And you with them at variance be You Churches make and holy days Unto the Saints and Martyrs praise But us which do believe the same You seek to kill and to defame Thou ask'st who them canonized Whose names are there enregistred You say the Pope I ask again Wilt thou that sainting power maintain (p) The custom of Canonizing Saints was not heard of till one thousand years after Christ in the dayes of Alexander 3. and Gregory 7. Can any mortal Creature tell Who goes to Heaven and who to Hell All judgement Paul bids us forbear Until the Lord himself appear (q) 1 Cor. 4.5 In Heaven to sit or high or low Is it in mans power to bestow (r) Mat. 20.23 What Bishops can or Saints invest Or shut men from eternal rest Someone Pope doth a Saint enstall His grant another doth recall (Å¿) Bonifance 8. caused Hermanus Ferrariens who had been Canonized for a Saint 30. years before to be taken out of his Grave and burned ann 1300. 'T is but a silly dignity That 's subject to uncertainty Among your Saints even those are seen Which to their Prince have Traytors been As Thomas Becket and Elizabeth Barton called the holy Maid of Kent and others Though that our Church such Saints despise To it it is no prejudice Popish Rime Hereticks OUr Saviour warns us to have care Of false Prophets to beware (b) That makes us take heed of you Which in his name shall come Not sent yet they shall run (c) There be many of your Church come amongst us to work mischief before you be sent for Thieves not entring by the Door (d) A lively description of the Popes Clergy That kill and steal and keep a stoor Wolves in Shepheards cloathing That kill the Soul and steal the Tything Dogs Foxes and Masters of lies That new Sects will devise Bringing in dissention And heap thousands to perdition Where have you been this many a year That none of you durst once appear Ever since our Saviours time To whom did your light shine (e) To those which had eyes to see it Where did your principal Pastor sit (f) In Heaven Who kept your keys who fed your sheep (g) You have butchered a good sort of them Shew some Churches you have built I can shew many you have spilt How might a man have found you out To have trial in a matter of doubt (h) You be too proud to learn it is the first lesson you teach your Disciples to admit no conference Where for so many a year No such Company did appear Until Luther a lying Frier (i) If Luther had continued a true Friar he had never been good Upon whom the Devil had desire Brâ—ke his Vow (k) Herods vow is better broken then kept and married a Nun And there your Sect (l) Our Sect is the same that Pauls was Acts 28.22 first begun (m) Either thou knowest this to be a lie or thou knowst nothing And favoured in Saxony By a Duke that loved liberty And in King Edwards time truly (n) There were English men in England who bare witness to this truth by suffering death for it long afore King Edwards time It first infected our Country For a thousand years you say That Papistry did bear the sway And during all that space No Protestant durst shew his face (o) The more they lay hid the greater was your tyranny yet many then both shewed their faces and lost their lives Who kept (p) Indeed you kep them so fast that the people could have no comfort by them the holy Scriptures then From the hands of wicked men Who had authority to ordain Our Priests and Bishops again For he that entreth without Order As a Thief doth kill and murder And one thing maketh me to muse That no Priest you do refuse (q) A very tale Being ordred by the Church of Rome But he was accepted soon If he would say the New Service He should have a Benefice Without any further Order And accounted for the better (r) He that hath once been an eager Papist and is converted truly is to be the better thought of because having known the abomination of Popery he must needs detest it more How can she make a lawful Priest If she be not the Church of Christ Answer this O Protestant If thou canst I will recant (Å¿) I believe you will not be so good as your word But while an answer you devise (t) A man need not be long in making you an answer I counsel all men that are wise To hold the faith maintained here The space of a thousand year Brought unto us English men By our Apostle (u) Who made him an Apostle Saint Austen Who from Rome was hither sent When Ethelbert was King of Kent Who learn'd his Faith of Gregory †This Gregory accounteth him the fore-runner of Antichrist who so should seek to be called Vniversal Bishop from this Faith you are gone His Faith was kept successively By threescore Bishops and three Since Saint Peter's time truly Who learn'd his Faith of Christ Jesu Who is the Son of God most true Protestants Answer Hereticks THe Caveat touching Hereticks Doth make against false Catholicks We know full well that Popery Is but a Mass of Heresie Those Errors which of old were hatcht Your Church together hath them patcht (u) It maintaineth free will and merit of works with the Pelagians Augustine The Pelagians held Children to be without sin Aug. contra Jul. lib. 3. cap. 5. So the Church of Rome saith Concupiscence is no sin It holds Imagery with the Simonians Basilidians and Carpocratians and with the two latter they secret their Religion Iren. lib. 1. cap. 23. Epiph. Haeres 24. It alloweth praying in an unknown tongue with the Osteni Epiph.
Hereticks called Cathari who dreamed of a state of perfection in this life so as Papists also do or else such factious ones among us which have sought the spoile and havock of the Church All giddy Sects among us crept We wish out of our Church were swept No name do we delight in more Then that at Antioch given of yore (f) Christians Acts 11.26 But now what Sects you Papists have I do but thy own witness crave Some Capucines some Franciscans And some be called Dominicans Some Jesuites some Seculars (b) The emulation and difference betwixt these two their Quodlibets do shew Some gray some black some white Friars And that your store may not be spent New Locusts still from Hell are sent (c) Rev. 9.3 Those Locusts do well represent the Popes Clergie they were bred of the smoak of the pit so are these of Heresie Ignorance and Superstition they destroy the fruits of the earth so these spoile the Church Thou saist thou would the Church find out So that I see thou art in doubt And so indeed Uncertainty Is still the fruit of Popery Popish Rime Catholick IN your Bible I have read The Church must through the world be spread For Christ he his Apostles sent With Power and Commandement That to all Nations they should go To Preach and to Baptize also Who hath done this to know I wish For that is sure the Church of Christ (d) I hope thou wilt not say that Rome hath done this the charge was given and undertaken before Rome was converted And for example let me know And if thou canst I pray thee show What Church did take in hand The first conversion of this Land (e) The Apostles Church for ought you can prove to the contrary And all other Countries every where Throughout the world far and near (f) Who but a Papist would dare to say this If this were not the Church of Rome Then will I be converted soon (g) You build your faith upon a very sure ground Saint Paul in his Epistle saith (h) Did Paul say that Rome shall never deny the Faith The Romans had the Catholick Faith Saying it was renowned Spoken of or published Through the world over all Catholick Universal And if your Churches were even so (i) Our Church is a part of the Catholick Church disprove it if you can Then to your Churches I would go (k) You may come to our Churches the Pope giveth you leave so that you keep your hearts to him Protestants Answer Catholick IN our Bible thou hast read 'T is well in ours for yours is fled And lurketh in a tongue unus'd Whereby poor people are abus'd The Church is Catholick as you say And so say we but why †The reason why the Church is called Catholick I pray Because to it it were disgrace To limit it to time or place It ever was and so shall be Since Christ excluding no degree (l) Col. 3.11 Acts 10.34 35. It once was ty'd unto the Jews But now no place (m) Austine saith it is Catholick because spread over the world Ep. 170. and thereto agreeth the Scripture Acts 1.8 it doth refuse It is a very fond surmise Which you the Papist do devise To shut the Church within Romes wall And yet to call it general (n) Catholick and general are all one and therefore one of their own Councels saith The Roman Church is not the Universal Church but of the Universal Church Basil Con. sy 3. The very name which you pretend Whereby your Church you would defend To all which do the meaning know Doth quite your fancy overthrow You say the charge which Christ once gave The Romists well performed have But mark how thou thy self dost hurt And lay Romes honour in the dirt That charge (i) Viz. of preaching through the world was given first to them Which lived at Jerusalem (k) The Apostles Mat. 28. Acts 1. And thence the Gospel issued out (l) Acts 8.1 As Esay told (m) Isa 2.3 the world throughout By them the Nations turned were (n) We read in Histories as in Eusebius and others how the Apostles divided themselves into all the quarters of the world And thence of Christ Rome first did hear Yet now the place (o) Jerusalem which others call'd To Turkish Empire is enthrall'd So though't were true which is not so And never shall be prov'd I know That Rome to Christ the Nations brought Yet this your reason were stark nought But now perhaps Rome doth you 'l say Bring home the wanderers to the way Indeed the Spaniards loving Gold Have brought the Indians to your fold The Frogs from Euphrates came out (p) Euphrates was a great river running near the old Babylon in Chaldea and was the defence of the City Cyrus and Darius could never take the City until by policy they dryed up the River Now in a spiritual sense it doth signifie the honour wealth and authority of Rome which hath of latter years decayed excedingly and doth daily and the frogs mentioned in Apoc. 16.13 do well resemble the Jesuites who feeling Euphrates to dry up bestir themselves and are croaking like Frogs in every corner labouring to maintain the Popes Authority I mean the Jesuited Rout Do spread themselves in each countrey To draw men to disloyalty They counsel Subjects kill their Kings Stabbings they use and poysonings (q) Our Countrey and times afford store of examples to prove this Christ gave no such commandement When first he his Disciples sent Of this conversion if you boast Whereby poor souls Hell hath engrost I yeeld it you full willingly It well agrees with Popery To draw Disciples is no mark For so doth many a feigned Clark (r) 2 Pet. 2.1 2. Acts 20.30 The Church to truth which doth convert We do embrace with all our heart Thou sayst Romes Faith once over all The world was famous so saith Paul (ſ) Rom. 1.8 And Rome did first convert our Land And hereupon you greatly stand Romes faith indeed once bare the bell And so it did deserve it well But Rome's not now as heretofore That faithful Citie 's made a Whore (t) Isa 1.21 So it was said of Jerusalem which had more excellent particular promises then Rome can alledge any If new Rome now were as the old Then we with Romanists would hold If Rome become Christs enemy Then we from Babylon must flie (t) Apoc. 18.4 To say that Rome is therefore sound Because of old it was renownd It may a Papist satisfie But men of judgement it deny Paul never Rome did magnifie As he did those of Thessaly †See 1 Thess 1.3 4 5 6 7 8. Yet now that Church is clean defac't And there the Turk himself hath plac't The Asian Churches (x) Ephesus Smyrna Pergamus Thyatira Sardis Philadelphia Laodicea Apoc. 1.11 famous once Are turned to a heap of
When thou canst prove by holy writ Christs Faith to Rome by charter knit Then shall thy tale some credit find Where now it turneth all to wind But yet continuance is a Note Of Gods true Church and Paul hath wroâ—… Ephes 4.11 c. That there should still some teachers be In some we this fulfilled see I say continuance is no sign To prove a Church to be divine We may not think each Doctrine sure Which doth for many years endure (x) It is true that the truth shall continue but yet it holds not backward that whatsoever continueth is Truth The Devil is a lyar from the beginning Must not the tares be let to grow Till it be time the corn to mow (y) Mat. 13.10 And Antichrist shall long time stay Even till the very Judgment day (z) 2 Thes 2.8 The Arrian heresie years did stand Two hundred more than one thousand (a) Yea and it was so generally received that it was said the whole world was become an Arrian Hierom. dialog contra Luciferianos And so since Mahomet first was seen A thousand years have numbred been Romes name endures but Rome is chang'd And hath from Christ it self estrang'd Quit thou Rome from Apostacy Or name not Perpetuity Pauls words do prove (b) Ephes 4.11 c. that certainly The Church shall have a Ministry And that there shall be some to feed The Flock of Christ at ev'ry need But that these Pastors here or there Shall alwayes fit in beauty clear This fond conceit not one more word The holy Scripture doth afford Indeed in Rome there divers be That bear the name of Prelacie Better we Pilates may them call Seeking the Churches Funeral You call your Pope a Shepheard great But where is his Spiritual meat I do not hear that he doth preach That would his greatness much impeach Such are his carnal Cardinals Or rather bloody Canibals (c) The People that live upon mans flesh They eat the fat and skin the Flock And live upon the Churches stock An idle sign a Shepheards Crook In hand they bear (d) The Pastoral staff made in fashion of a Shepheards crook but cannot brook To preach the Word a Pastors grace That duty fits not their high place The key of knowledge they withdraw (e) Luke 11.52 And from Gods people steal (f) Jerem. 23.30 Gods Law And mens devices (g) They teach Traditions to be equally reverenced as the Scriptures Conc. Trid. ses 4. dec and Lidanus calleth them the foundation of Faith Panopl lib. 5. cap. 2. on them thrust Making them unto fancies trust These are Romes Pastors woful sheep Which left are to the Wolves to keep Thou Shepheard great and Bishop chief (h) 1 Pet. 2.25 4.5 Come quickly (i) Rev. 22.20 quell this Romish thief Papists Rime Visible ANother mark there is most clear The Church of God must stil appear As a City on a hill (k) Some wrest the Scriptures to their own destruction 2 Pet. 3.16 Take heed Seen and continue still As a light on a Candlestick So is the Church Catholick Our Saviour saith if one offend And will not be rul'd by his friend Tell all the Church without delay (l) Would you have us go to Rome with every complaint It seemeth so for you tie the Church to that Sea And if he will not then obey Do thou esteem such a man An Heathen or a Publican Is not that the Church wherein we see Two hundred Bishops thirty three To have succeeded each other Since the time of Saint Peter (m) You must first prove that Saint Peter was Bishop of Rome Shew me this mark in you (n) Thou thy self sayst there have been successively 63. Bishops in England since Peter then either ours is the true Church or else succession of Bishops is no sure mark And I will say your faith is true If this be not in the faith of Rome Then will I be converted soon Protestants Answer Visible THou tell'st a tale incredible How that God's Church is visible And by the Bishops Catalogue Wouldst prove the Romish Synagogue The errors here together lapt By which the simple are entrapt All which your feigned Church doth hold I mean in order to unfold The Catholick Church defin'd aright Cannot be subject to our sight It is th' Elected company (o) 1 Pet. 2.9 And Christ his chosen Family (p) Ephes 3.15 Of this one part in Heaven lives (q) Called the Church Triumphant The other here with Satan strives (r) Tearmed the Church Militant The part above you 'l not deny With mortal eyes none can descry The same is true of that below It is unseen by us also How with mine eyes I might discern And see th Elect fain would I learn Upon their persons we may look Whose names are written in Gods Book (Å¿) The Book of Life Phil. 4.3 But as for their Spiritual being It is a thing doth pass our seeing Parts of Christs Church you Papists make Even those whom God will quite forsake (p) So doth Bellarmine lib. 3. de Eccles cap. 7. and the Rhemists in their Annotations upon John 15.1 Which if the matter be well scand Cannot with any Scripture stand Of the true Church Christ is the head (q) Ephes 1.22 In him can be no member dead (r) They are called living stones 1 Pet. 2.3 His Church a Garden (Å¿) Cant. 4.12 closed well In which no Reprobates can dwell (t) So August applieth the place Contra Cres Gram. lib. 2. cap. 26. and Gregory the great who was a Bishop of Rome in his Commentary upon that place Charitatis vallo circumquaque munitur ne intra numerum electorum reprobus aliquis ingreciatur So that if fitly we will speak The ground you lay is very weak In calling it a mark most clear That Gods true Church must still appear Of Churches nam'd in several In Cities or else National We yeeld sometime they may be seen Though sometime they are darkned clean Sometime the Moon with chearful light Shines in the height of Heaven bright (u) Aug. useth that similitude Epist 48 and Epist 80. and Ambrose Hex 4. C. 8. Ecclesia sicut luna defectus habet ortus frequentes Sometimes with clouds 't is overspred And in the Wane clean vanished So is the Church in safety still Although not alway visible Sometimes it sits in glory great Sometime it hath no certain seat The Woman which to Desart fled From Satans rage to hide her head * Apoc. 12.6 So much also the Rhemists upon that place do acknowledge By all the learnedst full consent The Church on earth doth represent The famous Church of Israel Where God did promise still to dwell (x) Psal 132.14 Was drown'd so in Idolatry And superstitious slavery That all true worship being gone Elias thought himself alone (y) 1 Kings 19.10 And
when Christ comes to judge us all Then faith on earth shall be but small (z) Luke 18.8 How is the Church a City then (a) Mat. 5.14 Rais'd on a mount and seen of men And how a light set up on high That all that will may it espie How shall we to the Church complain (b) Mat. 18.17 If of the Church no shew remain This is thy Popish reasoning And Scriptures plain misconstruing The true meaning of those places Christ doth th' Apostles counsel give Soundly to preach and well to live Because their places were in sight And 't was their Office to give light They erring many might mislead Which in their steps might hap to tread If that their Doctrine were unsound In falshood many might be drown'd It was in vain for them to ween In doing ill not to be seen You are saith Christ upon a Mount To be well mark't make full account (c) Thus Chry. and Theophilact expounded this place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 This shews wherein our duty stands And what God looks for at our hands Who call'd are to the Ministry To labour in God's Husbandry (d) 1 Cor. 3.9 But from hence how may proved be The Churches visibility This place affords a slender proof And little for the Popes behoof Yet you perhaps will urge it still The Pastors are set on a hill And called Light even so say I But all men can them not descry For those which want spiritual eyes (e) Ephes 1.13 Nor are by searching (f) John 5.39 Scripture-wise (g) Ephes 5.15 17. This mounted City cannot see Nor where these lightsome Pastors be (h) This was the Answer of Aug. to the Donatists Tract 1. in Epi. Johan Christ bids us we the Church should tell If things be not reformed well By Church he means all such as be Indued with Authority (i) The same which Paul calleth Presbyterian 1 Tim. 4.14 The Eldership These Office-bearers all men see In times of setled Sovereignty Yea and among themselves th' are known †This answer the Papists cannot mislike for they make use of it for themselves Rhem. in Apoc. 12.6 The error of this Popish Argument When th' outward state is overthrown When that was said in special You turn to Church in general Thereby you may deceive some fools But soon it will be seen in Schools This argument of outward state Which for a mark you intimate Against that thing doth strongly make Which you to prove do undertake Romes state hath sometimes been obscur'd And hath disgraces foul endur'd Burnt (k) By the Goths 547. sackt (l) By Charles Duke of Burbon in the dayes of Pope Clement the seventh whereupon was made tâ—… clause in the Letany Sancta Maria c. O holy Mary pray for Pope Clement c. some Popes imprisoned (m) John 14. Boniface 8. about the year 1304. Some glad to fly (n) John 17. fled to Hetruria some banished (o) Vigilius 18. and Gregory the ninth about the year 1227. Where did your glorious Church abide When Popes were glad themselves to hide Peace peace no more of this for shame Rome saith you will her clean defame †Succession Succession commeth next in place Whereby thou seek'st thy Church to grace Your turn Succession cannot serve If from the Truth Succession swerve The Jewish Church from Aaron A just descent might stand upon Even when they crucifi'd our Lord And hated all that lov'd his Word If we shall say that Church was true Consisting of so vile a crue We cast Christ and the Apostles out Among the base and damned rout The Grecian Churches at this day For their defence as much can say (p) At Constantinople there hath been a perpetual succession from Saint Andrew Nicep At Alexandria from Saint Mark Yet you of them do give this doom That in Gods Church they have no room Yet if Succession were a sign Which your grand Captain Bellarmine Dares not avouch (q) Bellarmine saith it followeth negatively that where there is no succession there is no Church but not affirmatively that where there is succession there is a Church Lib. 4. de Eccl. cap. 8. I fain would see How Rome can prove her pedigree You call your Church Saint Peters Chair As though the Pope were Peters Heir But if that ground we once deny What Papist can it verifie You cannot prove by holy Writ Peter at Rome did Bishop sit The onely place which you do name (r) 1 Pet. 4.13 The Rhemists say that thereby Babylon is meaned Rome and so they confess Rome to be Babylon Returneth to your greatest shame The things you fetch from Historie Touching this point do not agree (Å¿) Orosius saith Peter came to Rome in the beginning of Claudius reign Hierom in the 2d year others in the 4th year other the 13. year Damasus saith he came thither in Neroes reign so that there is no certainty in that which they make an undoubted principle And what our part hath herein sed By Papists stands unanswered But if he Bishop were indeed Tell me who next did him succeed Some Clement (t) The Popes decrees hold so and some Linus hold (u) Dorotheus Euseb lib. 3. cap. 4. Thus your succession is control'd Once was a Pope suppos'd a man †John 8. Platina The womans name was Gilbertia a Dutch woman of Burguntium But prov'd in time a Curtezan Then either your Succession shrank Or you must put her in the rank When Popes there were some 2. (x) Two Popes together Anno 1083. Anno 1058. and 1062. or 3. (y) Bened. 9. Silvest 3. Greg. 6. all at one time and at another time Ben. 1. a Spanish Pope Greg. 12. a French Pope and John 23. an Italian Pope Where then might your succession be One Schisme held almost forty year (z) 39. years Pope against Pope as doth appear (a) Let their own Authors speak One Council (b) The Council of Constance did these Popes put down And to another gave the Crown When these false Popes the place possest I think you 'l say Succession ceast Popish Rime Unity ANother mark there is truly The Church must have Unity As our Saviour hath foretold One Shepheard and one fold One is my Spouse one is my Love One is my Darling and my Dove This is his Spouse and at some time He doth resemble it to a Vine His Father is the Husbandman A Branch is every Christian This is his Body Mystical The which he doth his Kingdom call Whereof Saint Peter had the Keys (c) What became of the Keys when Pope Julius the second threw them into Tyber And his Successors have alwayes (d) As though no body did succeed Peter but the Pope who is rather the successor of Romulus then Peter as Pope Hadrian the fourth said when he died And likewise Saint Paul saith One Baptisme and one