honour due vnto sainctes The aunswere Howe shall wee call vppon theim in whom we dooe not beleue Roma x. We beleue onely in God therefore wee call vpon God onely We acknowledge no mediatour of God and men but onely Iesus Christe j. Timoth. ij Neither of redemption nor intercession For the Apostle in that place speaketh purposely of intercession saiyng I besech you therfore brethrē that praiers supplications c. bée made for all men And as for honour that should be due to sainctes we acknowledge none beyng taught by so many places of Scripture that al honour and glorie belongeth onely to God who is a ielous GOD and will not giue his honour to any other Wherefore as Augustine saieth honoramus eos charitate non seruitute wee honour theim with loue and not with seruice by whiche testimonie of that godlie manne your blinde distinction of latria and doulia is ouerthrowen for what is doulia but seruitus Whiche kinde of honour sainct Augustine doeth vtterly deny to be giuen to sainctes August De vera religione Capi. 55. The same Augustine dooeth also declare wherein their honour doeth consist namely in followyng of their example Honorandi sunt propter imitationem non adorandi propter religionem Thei are to be honoured for imitations sake not to bée whorshipped for religions sake And you your self diffined religion before to be cultus diuinus the seruice due vnto GOD howe would you then that true Religion should dooe any seruice to menne or Angelles whiche are but creatures of God. The Papiste Sixtene it dooeth denie oblations and praiers for the soules departed The aunswere We affirme accordyng to the scripture that the deade whiche die in the lorde are blessed for they reste from their labours and therefore to praie for theim that are happy were superfluous And as for those that die not in the lorde thei are accursed and therefore no praier is to bee made for theim and al that die doe either die in the lord or not in the lord for betwene cōtradictories ther is no meane Apo. 14. Our sauiour christe testifieth of theim that beleue in God that sent hym that thei haue life euerlastyng and come not into iudgement but passe from death to life Iohn 5. And if any hadde neede to bee pourged for satisfaction as you teache that men must be in purgatorie the holy theef that was crucified with Christe shoulde haue béen one especially but our sauiour christ made him assurance of felicity immediatly this daie saieth he thou shalte bee with me in Paradise Luke 23. And séeyng the Scripture neither commaundeth nor commendeth Praier for the deade it is vntollerable presumptiō for any man to vse it And as for oblations wee finde none in Gods woorde apoincted for the deade that wee shoulde offer no not in the oulde lawe where there was so manie diuerse kindes of Sacrifice no one was appoincted for the deade Wherefore the example of Iudas rehearsed by the aucthour of the seconde booke of Machabées is neither to bee allowed nor followed because he hadde no warrant of Gods lawe to offer any suche Sacrifice The seuententh negation was altogether lefte out in the copie which came first to my handes I suppose by negligence of the writer but in another copie I finde it thus The Papiste Seuententh it doth denie Images and the crosse of Christe The Aunswere Accordyng to the worde of God and the consente of the primitiue churche wée denie the vse of Images in the Churche whiche are the doctrine of vanities and lies as the Prophet witnesseth Abac. 2. The Papiste Eightene it doeth denie the buriall of the deade bodies in the Churche yeardes The aunswere Wee are not so carefull for the buriall of our deade bodies to dispute where they muste bee laied so that dewe reuerence without superstition be vsed in their Sepulture nether dooe wee refuse to burie theim in the Churche yerdes and places of comon buriall although we thinke no holines to bee more in one place then in an other The Papiste Nintene it doeth denie the hallowyng of the Fonte Oile Palmes and Asshes The aunswere Of hallowyng the water of baptisme I haue spoken sufficiently before as for oile Palmes Asshes and suche other beggerly Elementes of the worlde that haue no woorde of GOD to comende them wee haue no vse of theim in our religion but in their Ciuile vse all the creatures of god are hallowed to vs by the woorde of God and praier Gal. 4. Coll. 2.1 Tim. 4. The Papiste Twentie it doth denie holy breade holy water Vestimentes Chalices Copes Tunicles Candlestickes lightes Sensors Orgaines in the church singing in the quere reliques of sainctes pardones and pilgrimages wherby it doeth appeare that the religion of this newe reformed Church doth stande wholy of negatiues by destroiyng subuertyng and deniyng of all thinges before vsed in the Catholike Churche of Christe The aunswere As this twentieth differeth from the ninetenth only in wordes so one answere shall serue bothe These weake and beggerly Elementes of the worlde christian religion needeth not hauyng Christe in whom dwelleth all fulnes and perfection wisedome iustificatien sanctification And generally of all Ceremonies as is often saied before wée admitte none as parte of Gods whorshippe whiche are instituted of menne onely suche as bee accidentall and mutable if they be ordeined for edificatiō order and decencie and be voide of superstition we obserue theim But so that no mannes conscience bee bounde to theim And that when soeuer occasion serueth for better edification and more comely order it is lawfull to abrogate them and to institute newe in their places The Papiste Wherein the aucthors composers and deuisers of this newe religion haue dealed muche like as one maister Molande Vicar of sainct Peters in Oxforde did with Clare the Butcher a neare neighbour and parishner of his vnto whom by the waie of a merie ieste he made sale of an horse all by negatiues on this wise saiyng vnto hym how that his horse had not a great heade his horse hadde not a paire of Asse eares his horse had not one touth in his heade longer then an other his horse had not a sadle backe no Splent Spauen or Ringbone hys horse was not pincromped sicle hought nor broke winded and so forth all by negatiues he soulde his horse to Clare the Butcher not expressyng what his horse hadde but what his horse had not Dealyng therin with muche like faieth and truthe as our Preachers dooe with the people of this Realme which goe aboute to plante a new religion amongest theim which standeth as I haue here expressed wholy by negatiues in affirmyng nothyng and deniynge all thinges The aunswere You conclude your matter as it is verie mete with a merie tale I had almoste saied of Robin Hoode and little Ihon but I should saie of maister Molande and Clare the Butcher of Oxforde Whereby a manne may perceiue you were pleasauntely disposed that in so shorte a treatise wold
the Apostles Hebr. v. whiche we retain although you saie in the ende we do not As for salte spettle cōiuration or exorcisme thei ar altogeher superfluous at this tyme Of exorcisme there was some vse in the auncient churche but of salte spittle which neuer are not mentioned in that place of Basile As there were many possessed with Deuills so there was some that that had this power of the holie ghost to caste out Deuils whiche were called exoreistes as witnesseth S. Cypriane in his fowerth boke and Epis. vij ad Magnū Quod hodie etiā geritur vt per exorcistas voce humana potestate diuina flagelletur et vratur et torqueatur diabolus Et cū exire et hoēs dei dimittere saepe dicat in eo tamē quod dixerit fallat id quod per Pharaonē prius gestū est eodem mendacio obstinationis et fraudis exerceat Cū tamen ad aquā salutarē atque ad baptismi sanctificationā venitur scire debemus fidere quia illic diabolus opprimitur homo dicatus diuina indulgentia liberatur that is Which thing also is doen at this day that by the exorcistes through the voice of a man and the power of God the deuil is scourged burned and tormented And although he saith oftētimes that he goeth out letteth go the men of God and yet in so saying deceiueth practiseth the same thing that was dooen before by Pharao with the same lye of obstinacie deceipt yet whē we come to the wholsom water and sanctification of Baptisme we muste knowe and beleue that there the Deuill is oppressed and the man whiche is there dedicated is by the mercie of god deliuered This one testimonie emong a number is sufficient to declare bothe that there was in the Churche menne indued with the gifte of castyng out Deuilles whiche visibly and sensibly did possesse menne and that Exorcisme at Baptisme was vsed for none other ende but to deliuer suche as were possessed and could not be deliuered by the Exorcistes before thei were baptised not that euery persone which was Baptised hadde neede of exorcisme but onely suche as were vexed with vncleane spirites And seyng that gifte of castyng out Deuilles doeth no more continewe in the Churche and thei that are to be Baptised are not possessed with Deuilles it were not onely vngodlines but also méere madnesse for such to take vpō them that power whiche haue it not or if thei had it to exercise it where there is no neede of it The Papiste Fifte in the Primitiue churche thei builded churches erected therin alters and offfered sacrifice theron which was a suer token and argument of the faieth of Christ receiued like as Chrysostome writeth of Englande howe that they had receiued the faieth of Christe because they had builded churches and erected Aultars in the same S. Beade witnesseth that sainct Augustine at the bringyng in of Christes faieth into Englande did set vppe Aultars wherupon the people did make their oblations and the preste did celebrate Masse which these our reformatours doe denie and destroie as greate blaspemie vnto God. The aunswere For buildyng of Churches in any sumptuous maner the primitiue church was not careful but vntil Constantines time continued in such places as thei could get sometimes most commōly in caues vnder the yerth when thei were persecuted and durste not assemble in open places And we at this time if we had not conueniēt places for the holie assembles would and wher suche conuenient howses lacke doe builde Churches and Oratories But not in the honour of Sainctes and Aungels as you doe whiche thing the primitiue and auncient Churche did not but iudged it to be meare Idolatry sacriledge and blasphemie As Basile in his 141. Epistle proueth the holy ghoste to be God because he hath a temple so doeth Didymus in his treatise de spiritu sancto because no creature but God onely can haue a temple S. Augustine de vera religione Cap. 55 saieth concernyng sainctes Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute nec eis Templa cōstruimus c. Wherfore we honor theim with loue and not with seruise neither doe we build churches vnto theim for thei will not be so honoured of vs Likewise in the. 8. booke 27. cap. de ciuitate dei he saith that christians builde no temples to Martyres and in verie many other places he writeth to the same effecte And as for Alters and Sacrifies the primitiue churche vsed none more then wee The auncient churche in deede nameth Aulters and sacrificyng but they meaned nothyng lesse then suche Aulters and sacrifices as the Papistes vse For the fashione of their alter whiche was the Communion Table so called of them also is to be seen in the Panegyricall oratiō made before Paulinus Bishop of Tyrus wher also the fashion of their Temples is described Euseb. lib. 10. Cap. 4. There was but one Aulter in all the Churche whiche stoode not againste the furthest wall at the East ende of the Churche as your Aulters but in the middest of the Churche and was compassed rounde aboute with Grates or Lattesses of woodde which were called Cancells the Chauncel with in whiche place so incloased the Communion was ministred and at the time of the ministration the Ministers and Deacones stoode round aboute the Aulter whiche is a manifest proofe that it was not an Aulter against a wall like youres but a Table standyng in the middest as ours is Laste of all what they vnderstode by the name of sacrifice I will discloase by one Testimonie of Chrisostome whiche shal be in steade of a greate number For this he writeth vpon the. x. chapiter to the Hebrues Hom. 17. Speaking of the sacrifice whiche the Churche doth offer Hoc autem quod facimus in comemorationē quidem fit eius quod factum est Hoc enim facite inquit in meam comemorationem Non aliud sacrificium sicut Pontifex sed ipsum semper facimus magis autem recordationē sacrificijeperamur This Sacrifice saieth he that we doe is done in remembrance of that whiche was doone For he saied doe this in remembraunce of me we dooe not offer an other Sacrifice as the high Prieste but wee offer the selfe same alwaies or rather we exercise the remembrance of that sacrifice By this testimony of Chrisostome it is euident that the olde writers when thei spake of Sacrifice did not meane the Popishe sacrifice of the Masse but onely the remembrance of the sacrifice of Christe which is the ministration of the Communion The Testimonie of Beda concernyng Augustine the Monke that came into Englande which you alleged is neither aunciente beyng aboue sixe hundred yeres after Christe neither yet of auctoritie to bee followed the same Augustine beyng a superstitious proude cruell and vnlearned Monke For his superstition Bede testifieth his pride and crueltie is set forthe in our Englishe histories his ignoraunce in doubtes and questions whiche he
is your blasphemous doctrine that me doe moste abhorre and your Ceremonies we hate the more for your doctrines sake You should therefore stande to the defence of your doctrine and not fight so egerly for your Ceremonies if you would vse good pollicie Nowe for these obseruations I haue aunswered before sufficiently by whiche as by the reste of myne answeres I truste it shall appeere to euery manne of indifferente iudgemente that notwithstandyng all your twentie argumentes of bothe sortes our Churche hath suche conformitie and agremente with the primitiue Churche of Christe that she maie bee truely compted a member of the same and partaker in the communion of all the sainctes of God. The Papiste Of what force streingth and estimatiō those thinges are of whiche haue been vsed in christes catholike churche it shal appeare by these testimonies of sainct Augustine followyng The aunswere Before you had spoken of the force of those matters you should haue doen well to haue considered the force of your argumentes whiche howe stronge so euer those thinges bee are to weake to proue that whiche you propounde namely that our Churche hath none agreaunce at all with the Primitiue Churche of Christe But seyng you will needes sette for the dignitie of these matters wee will seuerally consider all these fower argumentes The Papiste Firste sainct Augustine writyng againste the Donatistes saieth looke what thinges the vniuersall church of christe obserue and hath at all tymes obserued if the same bee not ordeined by any generall counsell thē it ought most firmely to be beleued that it came to vs onely by the auctoritie and tradition of the Apostles The aunswere Although I knowe what to thinke of vnwritten Traditions yet if you bee able to proue that al these thinges wherof you speake the vniuersall Churche of Christ doeth and hath alwaies obserued I will yelde to you that thei are the Tradition of the Apostles accordyng to your testimonie whiche if you canne not doe as I am well assured you will neuer bee able to dooe it by your owne reason and aucthoritie we neede not holde theim for Traditions of the Apostles nor yet decrees of generall Counsailes The Papiste Second sainct Augustine in hys Epistle ad Casulanum saieth how in all these thinges whereof the Scriptures hath made no certeine determination the maner of the people of god ▪ or decrees of our elders must be taken and holden as a lawe to gouerne our selues and in the same Epistle he maketh mention how the Sondaie because it is not fasted whiche fastyng is a Sacrifice acceptable to God ▪ Therefore saieth he the Sondaie maie not bee celebrated and kepte without an other Sacrifice whiche is acceptable to God. The aunswere The Scripture hath determined of all necessarie articles of faithe and againste all superstitious opinions and Ceremonies And these thynges you speake of we proued to bee suche therefore in theim by Saincte Augustines rule neither the custome of people nor the decrees of elders muste take place but the aucthoritie of Goddes woorde But of suche thynges as bee variable Ceremonies for edification order and comelinesse sake diuers particuler Churches maie make particuler decrees whiche are nothyng preiuditiall to the vniuersall Churche of Christ whiche is the principall argumente that saincte Augustine handeleth in that 86. Epistle to Casulanus where he defendeth the custome of the moste parte of the Churche againste the custome of the Churche of Rome As I haue touched before whiche thyng of you will in no wise bee allowed And as concernyng the Sacrifice he speaketh of to bee celebrated on Sondaie he meaneth not the propiciatorie Sacrifice of the Masse as perhaps you would seme to inferre But the celebration of the communion for thus he writeth in the same Epistle against Vrbicus Dicit cessisse pani pecus tanquam nesciens tunc in domini mensa panes propositionis poni solere nunc se de agni immaculati corpore partem sumere dicit cessisse poculo sanguinem nō cogitans etiam nunc se accipere in poculo sanguinem He saith that the Shepe hath giuen place to the breade as though he were ignoraunt that then also the Shewbread was vsed to bée sette on the Lordes boarde and that now also he taketh parte of the bodie of the immaculate Lambe he saieth that bloodde hath giuen place to the Cuppe not consideryng that now also he receiueth bloode in the Cuppe These woordes declare bothe that the Sacrifice was nothyng but the Communion and also that the wine is none otherwise called bloodde then the bread is called a lambe and that the bread in nature and substaunce is suche as was the Shewbreade in whiche was no transubstantiation and thirdely the necessitie of the Communion in both kindes if this analogie of Augustine must stande wherfore sainct Augustine in this Epistle maketh little for your purpose The Papiste Thirde saincte Augustine in his thirde Epistle ad Ianuarium saieth that the thinges whiche we doe obserue throughout the whole worlde beyng not written but deliuered vnto vs either from the Apostles or generall counselles the aucthoritie wherof is notable and as of theim receiued ought to be obserued as the yerely remembrance and feastes of the passion of Christe of his ascention into heauen and of the cōmyng of the holy ghost whiche are celebrate in the Churche of Christe or any other like thing whiche is vniuersally obserued from whatsoeuer it first came fro and therefore saieth sainct Augustine in the same Epistle to reason or dispute why the same thinge ought to be obserued whiche of long tyme hath been obserued throughout the whole world by the auctoritie of christes church insolentissima insania est it is a poincte saieth he of extreme madnes And therfore saieth saincte Aug. the chaunge made of so long a custome yea though the same shoulde be verie profitable yet by the newnes thereof it doeth vexe and trouble the Churche of Christe it is made vnprofitable vnfruictful and finally hurtfull to the church of christ and for an example therof he doth there alledge how the disciples of christ did receiue the body and blood of christe not fastinge but after supper is the vniuersall church of christe therefore to be reproued or the custome therof to be chaunged whereby wee do in the same receiue the body and blood of christe fastyng and that for a more reuerence therunto in preferryng the foode of the soule before the foode of the bodie doubtles so for to doe it shoulde bee after the minde of Augustine both hurtfull vnto the churche of christ and a greate ponct of madnesse The aunswere This testimonie in effecte is the same with the former Sainct Augustin would haue suche Traditions as haue alwaies been vsed in the Churche to bee supposed that either thei came from the Apostles or from the generell Counsailes but here wee haue diligently to consider that wée admitte not all suche thynges as are called Traditions but onely suche as are
you vse all those Ceremonies that were vsed in the tyme of those doctors whose names you alledge or that al your Ceremonies were vsed in the tymes of those Doctours vpon whose aucthorities you would seme to grounde But to cōsider your groundes particularly that Augustine whom you call saincte Augustine was an vnlearned Monke as appereth by his questions propounded to Pope Gregorie that came into this land to corrupte the sinceritie of faithe whiche the Britons had receiued euen from the Apostles aboute sixe hundred yeres after Christe and liued twoo hundred yeres at the least after the aunciente father sainct Augustine bushoppe of Hippo in Affrica of whose pride and folie you maie reade in Galfridus Monumeth Matheus Westmin and others And truthe it is that muche superstition and false doctrine he brought in and by tyrannie mainteined as our stories witnesse but not all that you holde at this tyme for your religion in all pointes is nothyng so old And as for Beda he liued longe after Augustine But where you affirme that all youre Ceremonies haue been alwaies approued vsed and allowed throughout the vniuersall churche of Christe I can no longer forbeare you you saie more then all the Papistes in the worlde will be able to proue Touchyng sainct Augustine although the place by you alledged is not to be foūd in his vndoubted writyngs yet I confesse that he speaketh fauourably of Ceremonies cōmonly vsed to be quietly suffered and borne withall rather then vnitie to bee broken But what maketh this for your Ceremonies whiche you teache to bee necessarie for saluation and meritorious whiche if thei had been in saincte Augustines tyme or that men had so taught of theim there is no doubte but he would haue vtterly misliked theim as hereafter in place more conueniente I shall plainly declare In your next sentēce out of sainct Augustine also I must néedes tel you you plaie the suttle Marchaunt to sett for the counterfeict ware in steede of true marchandice for Augustine neuer was of that opinion that the Church hath the full aucthoritie of her husbande Christ and such gouernemente of the holy Ghost that she cannot consente but vnto true thynges neither hath he any suche wordes in al his workes For it is well knowen that the boke de dogmaticis ecclesiasticis out of which this sentence séemeth to bee borrowed is not accompted among the Authenticall workes of Augustine but forged of muche later time and falsly fathered vpon S. Augustine to steale credite from his name whiche it could not obtain of it self And yet if this saiyng were graunted to bée true it perteineth nothyng to your church which is the Sinagoge of Sathan and not the Churche of Christe Concernyng your thirde testimonie of sainct Augustine I can hardely thinke that saincte Augustine would haue an vniformitie of Ceremonies in praier and administratiō of the Sacramentes throughout all the worlde because I am able to shewe his aucthoritie to the contrary as in his 118. epistle to Ianuarius he discourseth at large And whereas you saie that the chaunge of the maner of praiyng hath broughte in chaunge of faithe in this lande it is cleane contrary for the diuersitie of faithe teacheth vs to praie otherwise then you vse for inuocation commeth of faithe as witnesseth sainct Paule Roma 10. The testimonie of saincte Ambrose although you declare not where a manne should finde it maketh little for your purpose For we agrée with hym that Schismatikes are to be abhorred but wée will not graunt to you that wée are Schismatikes as long as wée knowe that wée are members of Christe The testimonie of Tertuliane concernyng custome if it bee faithfully rehearsed of you I se not what it maketh for you For although laudable customes maie be obserued without searchyng their beginnyng what is that to your Ceremonies whiche containe manifeste impietie For you your self will not bee so madde to allowe all customes seyng many are contrary to the worde of god And although Tertuliane was to muche addicted to the maintainyng of Ceremonies and customes in some places yet otherwhiles he either expoundeth his meanyng or correcteth his errour as in his booke De virginibus velandis where he writeth in these woordes Hoc exigere veritatem cui nemo praescribere potest non spacium temporum non patrocinia personarum non priuilegium regionum Ex his enim fere consuetudo initium ab aliqua ignorantia vel simplicitate sortita in vsum per successionem corroboratur ita aduersus veritatē vindicatur Sed dominus noster Christus veritatē se nō consuetudinē cognominauit Si semper christus prior omnibus aeque veritas sempiterna antiqua res viderint ergo quibus nouū est quod sibi vetus est Haereses non tam nouitas quam veritas reuincit Quodcūque aduersus veritatem sapit hoc erit haeresis etiam vetus consuetudo That is to saie This the truthe requireth againste whiche no man can prescribe not the continuance of tyme not the defence of persones not the priuiledge of any regions For of these custome takyng her beginnyng for the moste parte through ignoraunce and simplicitie is confirmed into an vsage by succession and so is bosted of against the truthe But Christ our Lorde called hymself the truthe and not the custome if Christ were alwaies and before all truthe is as eternall and aunciente a thyng as he Lette them bee well aduised therefore to whom that is compted new whiche of hym is coumpted old Heresies saieth he not so muche their noueltie as truthe doeth conuict for what soeuer soūdeth against the truthe that shal be an heresie yea though it be an old custome By this testimonie of Tertuliane euery man maie see what he thought of old custome when it was alledged to deface the truthe and of what customes he speaketh when he commendeth customes namely suche as agree with the truthe and not euery blinde superstitious Ceremonie wherof a greate nomber were inuented many hundreth yeres after his death The Papiste The fifte consideration is that wheras I am not perswaded that the forme of praiers set forth in the saide boke is lawful and catholike my comyng to heare it shoulde bee an acte not onely contrarie to mine owne conscience and also to my damnable sinne but also my comyng therto should be to the weake and ignorant an occasion of ruine and deadly sinne which is called scandalum infirmorum and I am bound by the words of our sauiour Christ to auoide that saiyng wo be to that man by whom any suche offence or slaunder shall vprise and come For of my comyng thether either they muste iudge that I am a dissembler in doyng against my cōscience or els they must iudge that I am in cōscience perswaded thereunto And therby gather by mine example a likyng of that thing to be good and holy which in my very conscience I do vtterly condemne and that this slaunder shall not be so taken
as scandalum acceptum but so geuen as scandalum datum of my parte And wher as it hath been often tymes obiected vnto me how that it is but a very small matter to sticke or staie at for to come to the Church and heare the saied seruice beyng set at libertie secretly and priuily to praie with my self whatsoeuer I shall thinke mete for he aunswere I doe reade in the Scriptures howe Eleazarus the Preest is in the same commended because he would not dissemble the eatyng of swynes fleshe wheras he might haue escaped the paynes of death therby Tertulliane writeth a booke in the praise of a Souldiar and entituleth his boke de corona militis because that Souldiar refused in natali die Seueri imperatoris to weare but a Garlande of flowers vpōn his heade because he should therin then haue followed the maner of the gentiles and heathen people And rather or he would do so small a mattet as to weare but a Garland of flowers he did suffer inprisonment and therfore is commended of so greate a clerke as Tertullian was Theodoritus in hys second booke of the historie Ecclesiastike in Cap. 24. doth note Leontius Bishoppe of Antioche of greate dissimulation for as much as he beyng present in the quire at Antioche and in the hearing of christian men there to sing Gloria patri filio c. and the Arians Gloria patri in filio c. Contrariwise he did there openly take nether partie but priuily at the ende of euery psalme did sing Gloria pari in saecula saeculorum Amen And so he mumbled it vp to hym selfe vt ab instantibus vix audiri posset whose example therfore beyng so manifest and so well admonished therof I purpose not to followe God willyng VVhen to dissemble with a mā I hold it no honestly to dissemble with my Prince it is the iuste deserte of perpetuall discredite and infamie but to dissemble with God it is most impietie from the whiche detestable sinne I am vtterly resolued by the word god spoken by the mouth of Helias saiyng Vsquequo claudicatis in duas partes How long will you halte or limpe on both sides And S. Ihon in his reuelation saieth Because thou arte neither whot nor colde therfore I shall beginne now to vomit and cast thee out of my mouth The premisses well waighed it cannot be iustly saied that I sticke at a trifling or small matter but a matter of greate importance and conscience moueth me therunto and forceth me that I shoulde not vnaduisedly without greate cause seperate my self from the vnity of the Churche neither to condēne the vniuersal church vnheard hauing no iust or weightie cause why I should so doe For I haue alwaies and doe thus waigh the matter with my selfe that the poinctes and matters of religion which this boke of seruice hath condemned or taken awaie ether thei were thought matters of smal importāce and did no harme but being rightly vnderstanded might haue doen good or els thei were to be taken for matters of impietie and intollerable to be borne withal In case thei were of the firste sorte whiche thei haue condemned and abolished Then in my iudgement they should haue been tolerated and borne withall for charities sake and for the continuance and encrease of vnitie betwixte vs and the vniuersall Church of christendom On the other side in case thei had been taken for matters intollerable and could in no wise haue been borne with all for their impietie as it hath been pretended then yet in my cōscience we ought to haue been better aduised then by our priuate condemnation of theim to haue shewed our selfe to condemne thereby al the whole vniuersall church of impietie vnheard which thinges the vniuersall church hath vsed from the Apostles time and doe to this daie As touching matters of right faieth and godly maners the churche of Christe beyng the spouse of Christ was neuer destitute of the holy ghost neither could nor woulde in all this tyme haue borne or dissembled any impietie like as S. Augustine writeth hereof The Church of God beyng placed and put among muche chaffe and many Cockles and wedes the same church doth suffer and beare with many thinges yet that notwithstandyng touchyng the thinges whiche are against faithe and against good life the Churche doth neither approue theim nor yet lette theim escape vnspoken against The aunswere In that you will not dissemble against your conscience if you doe not dissemble but speake as you thinke you are to bee commended but if your conscience as you saie is not yet perswaded you are by no meanes to bée excused for in this so cleare light of the Gospell you could not bee so blind if you did not obstinately close your iyes from receiuyng the Sunne beames into theim And whereas you thinke it not reason to departe from the vnitie of the churche nor to condemne the vniuersall Churche vnheard you stande vpon a false grounde as you dooe alwaies that the Popishe Churche is that vniuersall Churche but that you shall neuer be able to proue For was the Popishe churche at any tyme or is it nowe vniuersalle But the Romishe churche you will saie is alwaies vniuersall though it haue neuer so many enemies But I can shewe you by saincte Augustines iudgemente that the vniuersall Churche maie bee without the Romishe churche For writyng to Casulane Epi. 86. he hath these woordes speakyng of one that defended the Ceremonies custome of the Romishe churche against the whole catholike Churche Quod vtinam sic quaereret aut sic affirmaret vt toto terrarum orbe diffusam exceptis Romanis adhuc paucis occidentalibus apertissimè nō blasphemaret ecclesiam that is to saie whiche thyng I would he did seeke in suche maner or so affirme that he did not moste manifestly thereby blaspheme the churche dispersed through out the whole worlde excepte the Romanes and a fewe other Westerne Churches Doe you not here see that when the Romishe churche with a fewe other that agréed with her are exempted the vniuersall churche of Christe still remaineth by sainct Augustines iudgemente and that if the Romishe Churche departe from the whole Catholike Churche the Romishe Churche is a Schismatike as it is at this daie and hath been a long time euen since Antichriste sette vp his seate there and made a generall departyng from the faith of Christ which sainct Paule prophesieth should come to passe ij Thessal ij All the whiche tyme though there were but few that continued in true faithe and honouryng of God yet those fewe wheresoeuer thei were scattered in all the worlde wer the true catholike Churche of Christ and were alwaies ioigned together in Christe their heade by vnitie of true religion And whereas you saie your Churche is vnhearde I maruaile what you meane for what can the Pope or any of her proctours saie in her defence but it hath been hearde and confuted by the scriptures Whiche thing hath caused the most part
of Yorke and the churche of Bangor had some diuersitie in their maner of seruing God and yet you will saie thei were all one Popishe Churche But to the purpose you recite more names then there be diuersities of opinions For Zwinglius and Caluine in the matter of the Sacrament whiche you shoote at are all one and Luther differeth from them And yet the difference is not so great but that thei bee all of one Catholike Churche because thei agree in the onely foundation Iesus Christe and in all opinions that are necessary to Saluation although Luther in his opinion of the Sacramente as a man was deceiued And that diuersities of opinions so longe as the principall groundes of faithe bee obserued vncorrupted doeth not make diuersitie of churches you maie easily see by this example S. Cypriā and all the Churches of Affrica were in this error that such as were baptised by heretikes should be baptised again which was a very perilous errour Cornelius Stephanus the Bishops of Rome with the Churches of Europe were in the contrary opinion And yet no man euer refused S. Cypriane to bee a member of the Catholike churche nor iudged the churches of Affrica that followed his errour to bee of any other thē of the vniuersall church of Christ emong whom were many martyres and godly men which liued died in the same error Now cōpare Cypriane Luther the one erring in the Sacrament of Baptisme the other in the Sacramente of the Supper if the errour of th' one did not separate hym from the communiō of the catholike church no more cā the error of the other Whiche thing if it were well weighed would remoue that stōblyng blocke that troubleth many weake persones but can hinder no learned man cōcernyng the controuersie of Luther and Zwinglius The third reason is that we are departed from the Churche of Geneua because we ascribe supreme gouernement in Ecclesiasticall matters to the Quéenes highnes Firste we must bee bolde to tell you that as we reuerence and honour all particulare Churches where true religion is established so we doe not grounde our self vpon either the opinion or custome of any one but onely vpon the worde of God and so farre foorthe to followe euery one as thei come neare to the same rule But whereas you would sette that excellente godly Churche of Geneua at variaunce with vs aboute the supremacie your childishe quarrellyng shall easily appeare to all menne You alledge Caluine againste vs in twoo places one in his Institutions an other in his Comentarie of the Prophet Amos. A man in deede from whom we would bee lothe to dissente excepte it were for a greate cause A manne of suche godlie learnyng and profounde knoweledge in diuinitie as all the Papistes that euer were are not worthie to carrie his bookes after hym But before I aunswer you I muste admonishe you that either your copies whiche came to my handes were verie muche corrupted or els you haue recited those places by hearesaie rather then by your owne obseruatiō Your copies sendeth me to the viij Chapiter of his Institutions namyng no booke and to the fowerth Chapiter of Amos whereas that you speake of the one place is in the fowerth boke and twelue Chapiter of his Institutions the other in the seuen Chapiter of Amos. So that in deede it was more labour to seeke your places then to make aunswere to them Concerning the firste I meruaile you were not ashamed to alledge Caluine againste vs where he saieth that Kynges and Princes are subiecte to the discipline of the Churche as Theodosius was content to be excommunicated by saincte Ambrose for the murther he had committed in Thessalonica which none of vs denieth and doe not remember how substauncially he proueth that godlie Princes haue aucthoritie and ought to maintain true religion by lawes decrees and iudgementes whiche is all the supreme gouernemente that wee ascribe to the Quéenes highnes And as for the place of Caluine vpon Amos the truthe is this Caluine findeth fault not with kyng Hēry but with those that did ascribe that title vnto hym and sheweth for what reason he misliked the same Not that he denied his lawfull aucthoritie whiche was meant by that title of all his godly and true subiectes but because Steuen Gardener bishop of Winchester by false vnderstandyng thereof declared that he vnderstode nothing therby but the tyrannie whiche the Pope vsurpeth ouer the churche to be translated vnto the kyng And therfore at a solemne cōference at Ratisbone in Germanie after the Popes aucthoritie by acte of Parliament was abolished out of the realme he defended all Popishe religion whiche remained vnreformed to bee good and godlie because it was established by the kings aucthoritie who was supreme head of the churche He disputed not by reasons neither cared he for the testimonies of scriptures but saied it was in the kynges power to abrogate all Lawes and establishe what he thought good in the churche as to forbidde Priestes marriage to forbidde laie menne the vse of the Cuppe in the Churche and all other suche matters he saied were in the kynges aucthoritie This he saied of the Kynges power abroade and howe he abused that noble Prince at home to make the Acte of sixe Articles and other thynges of like effect there be many yet aliue that can remember But seeyng this title of supremacie dooeth so muche offende you I praie you lette me demaunde one question of you Who did first inuent it here in England Or who did first ascribe it to kyng Henry Was it not the whole Popishe Cleargie of Englande when thei were caste in the Premunire for mainteinyng the power Legantine of Cardinall Wolsey and submittyng theim selues vnto the Kynge they flattered hym with that title and offered hym a greate somme of money for their pardon as witnesseth Halle and Grafton in their histories and ther be yet aliue many that can remēber it So that if there were any faulte in it you should blame them and not vs for it For so farforthe as beyng rightly vnderstoode it declareth the lawfull power of the Prince wee did and doe yelde vnto it but not in Steuen Gardiners sence whiche Caluin in the place by you alledged doeth cōfute After this you require vs to shewe you a Churche where vnto you maie resorte whiche hath continued euen since Christ whiche if it can not bee shewed you conclude in th' ende that Christ had no churche or els our Churche is not Christes Churche Againe where our Church was fiftie or sixtie yeres agon If a manne had asked of Elias where the churche of God was in his tyme he could not haue made aunswere and yet God had his Churche in Elias tyme The Churche is not alwayes apparaunte to the iyes of the blynde worlde in whiche she is a straunger but is compelled sometymes to flie into the wildernesse out of the sight of men by the persecutiō of the deuill and his members as
it is Prophesied in the xij Chapiter of sainct Ihons Reuelation And yet for fiftie or sixtie yere agone it had been no harde matter to haue shewed you diuers members of our Churche bothe in Englande in Bohemia as th' historie of the church declareth at large Also in Fraunce at Merindoll and about Lyōs but these you will saie agreed not with vs in all poinctes but I will aunswere you thei agréed in the cheifest poinctes necessary to eternall saluation For whatsoeuer we are able to shewe for our Churche I am sure you are neuer able to shewe your self for your churche that whiche you require vs to shewe namely a churche that hath continued from this tyme vpwarde vnto the Apostles that taught vniformely and in all poinctes the doctrine that the Popishe Churche nowe teacheth Whiche thyng when you haue performed I will doe the like for oure Churche In the meane time that whiche is a sufficiente rule to finde out the true Churche by the iudgement of Saincte Augustine I will declare vnto you In his booke the vnitate ecclesiae Capi. 2. Inter nos autem Donatistat quaestio est vbi sit ecclesia Quid ergo facturi sumus In verbis nostris eam quaesituri sumus an in verbis capitis sui domini nostri Iesu Christi Puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum Betwene vs and the Donatistes saieth saincte Augustine the question is where the churche should bée What shall we doe then shall we seke her in our wordes or in the woordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that rather in his wordes we ought to seke her which is the truthe and beste knoweth his own bodie And in the. xvj chapiter of the same booke he writeth thus of the Donatistes Vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarū scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant That is whether thei haue the churche on their side let theim shewe none otherwise but by the Canonicall bookes of holy scriptures Many other suche testimonies are in S. Augustine by whiche it is plaine that he geueth this infallible rule to knowe the true churche to examine the doctrine therof onely by the scriptures But wheras you saie that Anabaptistes Libertines and Arians pretende the word of god and the primitiue Churche what meane you therby that we should forsake the worde of god the Primitiue churche by whiche all heretikes haue béen cōfuted what soeuer thei pretended For though heretikes pretende the scriptures yet onely by the scriptures thei are to be cōfuted though thei appeale to the iudgemente of the primitiue church yet by the primitiue church thei are condemned for heretikes I maie as well say that Arianes Libertines and Anabaptistes boste them selues to be the true Catholike Churche therefore wee must not allowe the true catholike churche It is pitie to see menne that would be coumpted wise and learned to reason so fondly and vnlearnedly For of all other reasons it is the vainest and feeblest shift that the Papistes vse to flie frō the scriptures to the aucthoritie of the Churche in confutation of heresies For there was neuer yet heresie did arise but there was as greate controuersie of the Churche as of the opinion for euery heretike boasteth as well of the Churche as of the scriptures but when all is dooen his bragges of bothe muste bee beaten doune onely by the scriptures But because you make so proude vauntes that you will so plainlie proue that our Churche hath none agreans with the primitiue churche of Christ in discourse of that controuersie with you I will sette for the bothe what is the Primitiue churche and how we agree therewith and I doubte not but that I shal bee able by the grace of God bothe to iustifie our cause againste your false accusations and also to ouerthrowe youre falshodde whiche you haue heaped vppe to ouerwhelme the truthe And as I haue confuted your sixe considerations which vnto you seme of greate importaunce so by Gods helpe I shall auoide all other youre calumniations in whiche with some subtiltie but more impudencie and moste of all impietie you goe aboute to intangle the consciences of suche as bee ignorante and vnlearned to withdrawe their obedience ▪ from the godly lawes of this realme whiche are established for the mainteinyng of Gods true Religion and the abolishyng of all Idolatrie and superstition The Papiste Argumentes gathered out of the Scriptures prouyng that this late reformed Englishe churche hath none agreans with the Primitiue churche of Christ. The aunswere The very title of your argumentes declareth of what force youre argumentes are Your reasons are tenne in noumber whiche if thei were all graūted to be true yet foloweth not this conclusion that our Churche hath no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe excepte you would affirme that all the doctrine of the Primitiue Churche were comprehended in these tenne poinctes Again your owne Popishe Churche differeth in these tenne poinctes as muche from the Primitiue Churche as ours therefore by your owne Logike I will conclude that your Popish churche hath no agreance with the church of Christ. 1. For neither you haue all thinges common 2. neither dooe you sell your houses and landes to putte the price in common 3. Neither doe you make diuision to euery manne accordyng to his necessitie 4. Neither are all mēbers of your Churche so prouided for that none dooe begge 5. Neither doe you baptise onely in the name of Christe 6. Neither dooe you giue the holy ghost by laiyng on your handes 7. Neither dooe you restore theim to health whom you annoincte with oile beyng sicke 8. Neither dooe you make open confession of your synnes 9. Neither dooe you celebrate the Sacramente after supper 10. Neither dooe you abstaine from bloodde and strangled therefore by your owne reason you haue no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe Or if you maie haue any agreance these differences notwithstanding why maie not we the same differences nothyng lettyng vs haue sufficient agremente therewith You see that either your argument is nothyng worthe or els you haue as little agreance with the Primatiue churche as we Your only refuge is this that it is not necessary for you to haue any agreance with the primitiue Churche And that is the opinion of all Papistes whiche is diligently to be noted that you disclaime of al title of the Primitiue Churche whiche you holde was but an infante and by addition of your doctrine and Ceremonies is growne to bee of womannes state As though Christ maried his Churche when she was vnder age and so the matrimonie was not ratified and consumated before the Pope had nourtured her in his schole vntill she came to yeres of discretion For it is as lawfull for me so to inferre vppon your allegorie as for you so to allegorise of her But that you maie the better vnderstande what
we meane by the primitiue Churche I putte you out of doubte that none of vs doeth attribute vnto her suche long limites as you doe in your argumentes gathered out of the Doctours where you alledge the seconde counsaill of Nice as a determination of the primitiue churche whiche was holden almoste eight hūdred yeres after Christe Of whiche thing you were not ignoraunt but you thought it was sufficiente to fill vnlearned eares with greate blastes voide of all reason or truthe Wherefore when wee appeale to the Primitiue Churche wee meane the Churche of the Apostles and their successours so longe as thei continue in the doctrine of the Apostles whereof triall is to be made by the Canonicall writynges of the Apostles That wheras you accuse vs for departyng frō your churche as though we were of no Churche wee defende our selues to be of the true churche seyng wée retaine the faithe and doctrine of the primitiue Churche whiche without all controuersie was the true churche Now as I haue shewed you what we accompte to bee the primitiue churche so muste I declare in what thynges wee are bounde to consente and agree with the same For whiche purpose we must marke this difference whiche I suppose no Papist is so farre paste shame to deny namely that in the primitiue Churche some thynges were necessarie and immutable some thynges againe were temporall and variable Of the firste sorte is the doctrine and Sacramentes of the latter sorte are Ceremonies and politike constitutions To the doctrine no manne maie adde no man maie diminishe no manne maie alter any thyng thereof The Sacramentes beyng as Augustine calleth theim the visible woorde bee of the same nature with the doctrine On the other side Ceremonies and publike constitutions mate bee reteined or chaunged as thei make beste for edificatiō for order and for comelines And of this latter sorte are all those thinges whiche you alledge in which we differ from the primitiue churche But yet so longe as we holde still the same faithe and the same Sacramentes whiche are lefte to vs by the primitiue Churche all reasonable men will iudge that notwithstandyng your reasons wee haue suche agreance with the primitiue Churche as may proue vs to be members of the same For it is the vnitie of faithe and Sacramētes not of Ceremonies and constitutions that ioigneth vs vnto the bodie of Christe as witnesseth sainct Paule to the Ephesi iiij One faithe one baptisme one god c. Now let vs particularly consider your tenne differences The Papiste First it is written howe the beleuers in the Primitiue churche had all thinges in common And no one man did reckon the thing that he did possesse to be his owne or priuate The aunswere Firste it it is a sporte to see howe to make a shewe of a greate multitude of dishes and to fill vp the noumber of tenne you diuide one matter into fower quarters whiche is of the cōmunitie of al thinges that was in the primitiue Churche whiche should haue been serued all in one mease but for fashiōs fake That thei had all thynges common one while in Hierusalem it is very true but that thei had so alwaies and in all places it is most false for saincte Paule exhorteth the Corinthians to giue almose to the poore liberally j. Cor. xvj and he willeth Timothe that he charge thē that be riche in this worlde to be ready to distribute vnto that necessitie of their brethren j. Timoth. vj. which neded not all if all thynges had been common This was therefore a variable order and constitution whiche continued but a shorte tyme neither was it profitable but onely then when the noumber of the disciples was but small in comparison and liued all in one place at Hierusalē The Papiste Seconde in the Primitiue Church suche of the beleuers whiche were possessors of Landes and Houses soulde theym and powred it doune before the Apostles but the beleuers of this oure late reformed Churche are not come to that perfection nor yet are aminded so to doe The aunswere This is all one with the former for how could thei haue had all thynges common if euery man had reteined his houses and landes to his priuate vse And yet no manne was compelled to this communitie for Peter saieth plainlie to Ananias that he neded not to haue sold his land neither to haue brought the price but of his free will. But whereas you accoumpt it a perfection to haue all thynges cōmon I muste bée bolde to tell you ye sauour of Anabaptistrie for although it was then expediente for thal tyme emong a fewe yet it were not tollerable to bee vsed as a pefection emong all the churche of Christ But would bryng a meere confusion and disorder of all thinges beside that it is vnpossible that all Christian men in all places should haue all thynges common The Papiste Thirdly in the primitiue churche Christes Apostles and their successours were chiefe gouernours of the beleuers and of such goods as they had in common amongest theim diuision vnto euery manne was made therof by the appoinctment of the Apostles according as they thought it nedefull or necessarie And because Ananias the husbande of Saphira wente aboute to kepe backe a portion of that comon mony for the which they sould their Landes the Apostle S. Peter did strike theim bothe with sodaine death But in this our reformed Englishe church beside that the beleuers are at no suche appoinctment of the Bishoppes and successors of the Apostles they doe by their lawes spoile theim of all they haue by takyng from them so muche of their temporall landes and so muche of their goods for firste fructes tenthes and subsidies as they liste And therfore in this poinct it hath no agreans with the order of the Primitiue church The aunswere The Apostles kepte not that gouernement long in their handes but committed it ouer to the Deacons as it is declared in the sixte chapiter of the Actes by which it is manifeste that it was no perpetuall order whiche in so shorte tyme was altered For in suche thynges the Churche maie institute and chaunge as often as it shall seme expediente But whereas you charge our Prince to bee a spoiler of the churche by withdrawyng the landes and gooddes thereof by takyng firste fruictes tenthes and subsidies you shewe your self what an honest subiecte your are We for our partes acknowledge that it is in the Princes power to increase or diminishe the stipend of the ecclesiasticall ministers as shal be thought expedient and that it is our dueties to paie all suche taxes tributes and subsidies as by lawfull aucthoritie are laied vpon vs But I meruaile why you should accuse our princes for taking of subsidies as though Popishe princes doe not take subsidies of their Cleargies also and moste of all when the Pope who hath no aucthoritie to demaunde one penie hath extorted suche infinite sommes of money for annates firste fruictes palles pardons and suche other
tromperie whereof how greate complaintes the Cleargie of Englande hath made you maie reade in Mathewe of Westminster in the liues of diuers kynges and namely of Henry the thirde and Edward the first One historie is notable that the Pope fente a Legate called Otto with a letter complainyng of the greate pouertie of the Churche of Rome whiche was the cause that she was compelled to pille and polle poore suters that sued to the Courte of Rome in remeadie whereof he demaunded of euery Cathedrall churche two prebendes and of euery Religious house so much as the portiō of two Mōkes or cloisterers came to by yere But the Cleargy would in no wise graunte it The same requeste was made in Fraunce but could not bee obteined Wherefore euery man maie see how maliciously you slander the prince whiche hath aucthoritie to take for necessarie affaires of the realme so longe as a competent liuyng remaine vnto the Ministers The Papiste Forth it is writtē of the Primitiue church that of suche goods which thei had in common ther was such equall diuision made by the handes of the Apostles that no one man of the beliuers did lacke or was forced of necessitie to begge But since the reformation of this Englishe church many especially of the Clergie which were before well able to liue are now brought vnto a very bare and beggerly life and estate The aunswere This diuision lasted not longe emong the Apostles at Hierusalem for saincte Paule from the Churches of the Gentiles receiued almose to supplie the necessitie of the poore sainctes at Hierusalem and by Peter Iames Ihon he was exhorted so to doe as you maie reade in the seconde to the Galathians and the second to the Corinth viij and. ix And as for your Cleargie if any of theim bee broughte to beggerie it is through their owne ignoraunce and frowardnesse whiche either will not forsake their heresies or are not able to minister in the Churche of Christ if any worthie menne bee neglected it is the faulte of some priuate persones and not of the whole Churche The Papiste Fiueth in the Primitiue church christes Apostles did baptise the beleuers onely in the name of Iesus Christe and not by expresse woordes of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghoste the whiche forme of baptizyng vsed in the Primitiue churche these new reformatours vse not The aunswere That any of the Apostles Baptised onely in the name of Iesus Christe excludyng the name of the father and of the holy ghost it is a detestable sclaūder of the holy apostles Who as thei had an expresse commaundement of our sauiour Christe to baptise in the name of the blessed Trinitie the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost so there is no doubt but thei did alwaies obserue it which is easily to be gathered out of the. xix chapiter of the Actes where certain disciples of Ephesus beyng vnorderly baptised by some preposterous disciples of Ihon aunswered thei knewe not whether there were an holy ghost or no sainct Paule then doeth demaunde into what thei were baptized as though he should saie if you had been rightly Baptized you could not haue been ignorante of the holy ghost but by their aunswere he perceiued that thei were baptised into the name of Ihon and not of Christe as though Ihon had béen the head of their religiō and not christ Then after S. Paule had declared that Ihons doctrine baptisme was to bee referred altogether to Iesu Christe thei were baptised into the name of Iesus Christe that is to acknowledge Iesus Christ to be the heade and aucthour of their Religion not that in the forme of their Baptisyng the name of the father of the holy ghost was excluded And so are all other places to be expounded where it is saied that any are baptised in the name of Iesus christ And in no place is it said that any manne was baptised onely in the name of Iesus Christ. Wherfore this cauillation as it vnproffitable for your purpose so is it slanderous and blasphemous against the Apostles The Papiste Sixte in the Primitiue Churche the Apostles Peter Ihon and their Successours did geue the holy Ghost vnto their beleuers that were before baptized by laiyng their handes vppon their heades whiche thinge our reformators of this our English churche doe refuse to doe by their deniall made of the Sacrament of Confirmation The Aunswere Although I wil not contende with you on what parte of mens bodies the Apostles laide their handes yet it is boldly affirmed of you that thei laide their handes on mens heades whiche you reade not in any place of the scripture but concernyng the substance of the matter the Apostles by the ceremony of imposition of handes conferred the holy ghost that is to saie the visible graces and giftes of the holy ghost as the gifte of tongues the gift of prophecie the gifte of healyng and suche like whiche giftes as they were temporall in the Churche to beutifie the ministery of the gospell in the firste publishing therof and nowe are ceased so the ceremony by whiche thei were conferred is rightly abrogated For now the ministers by laiyng on their handes can not giue those externall graces of the holie ghoste wherefore thei ought not to vse that Ceremonie An other imposition of handes was vsed by the Apostles on those that were Baptised beyng infantes which after thei came to yeres of discretion professed their faith before the Churche to whiche thei were Baptised and so were receiued onely by imposition of handes whiche was therefore called confirmation Not that it was a Sacramente or a signe of Gods fauour suppliyng that which wāted in baptisme but that it was a testimonie of the Churches allowing of those that were so Baptised and after learned the principles of their faithe And this Ceremonie we retaine in our churche not as a Sacramēte whiche is a visible signe of an inuisible grace betwene God and vs but as an externall approbation and receiuyng of the persone in suche sorte Baptised As for your Oile and Chrisme that you occupie in your Popishe confirmation hath none institution of Christe and therefore is no Sacramente The Papiste Seuenth the order and maner was of the Primitiue churche if any man was dangerously sicke to send for the Prieste to praie for hym and oinct hym with Oyle in the name of our Lorde God whiche the reformatours of this our Englishe churche doe refuse to doe by their deniall of the Sacramente of extreme vnction The aunswere In the primitiue Churche the Elders of the Churche had the gifte of healyng and therefore when any man was sicke thei vsed to sende for the Elders of the Churche who praied for hym and anointed hym with Oile in the name of the Lorde by whiche Ceremonie it pleased GOD to restore the partie to healthe as you maie read in the v. Chapiter of sainct Iames. And in the sixte of saincte Markes Gospell wee reade that the Apostles beyng sente
abroade of Christe to preache and woorke miracles vsed by the same ceremonie to heale many that were sick But now whē the gifte of healyng continueth not in the Churche it were a verie ridiculous thyng to vse that Ceremonie And as for your extreme vnction by no meanes can be accompted that vsage of the Apostles for you anoint none almost but suche as are past hope of recouerie so farre you are frō restoring any to healthe by your beggerly ceremonie The Papiste Eight in the Primitiue churche we dooe reade in the nintinth chapiter of the actes of the Apostles how vpon a certain plague there made vpon seuen bretheren the sonnes of one Sceba by a man that was possessed with the Diuelle many of the people whiche did beleue in Iesus Christe theruppon came and made vpen confession of their sinnes and made declaration of their priuate actes and dedes whiche the reformatour of this our Englishe Churche will none of by the deniall of Sacramente of penance and all the partes therof The Aunswere It is straunge to see vnto how narrow shiftes you are driuen to make vp a number of argumentes Haue you nothing but open confession to proue your priuate and auriculer confessiōs God be thanked ther are many also in our churche that make open confession and declaration of their former life led in blindenes and superstition of their falling in time of persecutiō and other like offences but what is this to your popishe Sacramente of auricular cōfession or what likelihode hath it with the same Firste the faithfull bringyng forthe certeine examples of their actions acknowledge how they were seduced by the deuill before they embraced the faith the popes law compelleth men to reherse all their deedes wordes and thoughtes These men made their cōfession once the popes law requireth eche man to confesse euery yere once at least these came forth to this confession of their owne accorde the pope compelleth all men vppon necessitie of saluation Againe the text saieth that many came but not all the popes lawe excepteth none these Ephesians made open confessiō before al the church as you your selfe acknowledge the pope commaundeth euery man to whisper his confession into a préestes eare Let al men iudge what agrement this their confession hath with your auricular confession And wheras you saie we deny the Sacrament of penaunce and all the partes therof The truth is we preache repentance as we are commaunded by the woorde of God but no Sacrament of penance dooe wee finde in the Scripture what you meane by the partes of penance I cannot well tell but if it be those three that bee commonly sette forthe in writers of your dunsical diuinitie contrition of harte confession of mouth and satisfactiō of worke you shall here what wée thinke of theim Thei are suche as a verie limme of the Deuill maie performe and yet goe to the Deuill when he hath dooen Example in Iudas Iscarioth who hadde contrition of harte as the Scripture teacheth when he was sorie for his facte And he made confession of mouthe to the priestes when he saied I haue synned in betraiyng of innocente bloode Finally he made satisfaction of woorke when he restored the thirtie siluerlynges whiche he receiued for his treason And when he had so dooen wente and hanged hym self in despaire You see that Iudas lacked none of youre three partes of penaunce but he lacked faithe without the whiche all contrition confession and outward satisfaction is nothyng auailable And therefore you teach a verie wholsome kinde of penaunce in whiche faithe in the bloode of Christe is no parte at all Neither is it necessarely required thereto by your owne doctrine For Sacramentes you teach giue grace ex opere operato that is of the woorke wroughte so a manne dooeth not withstande the receiuyng of them whiche you call ponere obicem And therefore penaunce beyng one of your Sacramentes and absolution of sinnes maie be receiued without faithe in the merites of christ Therfore kepe your penaunce for your frendes we can not skill of suche Sacramentes The Papiste Ninth the order and maner of the Primitiue churche was to celebrate the Sacramente of christes bodie after supper as it apeareth both by the example geuen therof by our sauiour Christe and by the testimonies of the Apostle sainct Paule which they doe not obserue nor followe The aunswere You are not able to proue that any suche order was established in the primitiue Churche that the Sacrament of the bodie and bloode of Christe should bée receiued after Supper Although it was by our Sauiour institited after his laste Supper Not appoinctyng any tyme in whiche it ought of necessitie to bee receiued no more then the Sacrament of Baptisme is bounde either to Mornyng or Euenyng daie or night or to any tyme of the daie in whiche it was firste ordeined And whereas you alledge the aucthoritie of saincte Paule for your purpose you doe hym greate wronge for he reproueth the Corinthians for confoundyng drunken and prophane bankettes with the holie Sacrament of the Lordes Supper i. Cor. xj And as for the tyme place and other like circumstances perteinyng to the ministration of the Sacramentes thei are in the discretiō of the churche to appoinct as thei maie beste serue for order comelinesse and edification But ouer the substaunce of the Sacramentes the Churche hath no power as to take the cuppe from the laie people whiche none but the churche of Antichrist would presume to doe The Papiste Tenth in the Primitiue Churche it was decreed by a solemne law holden by the Apostles of Christe at Hierusalem that the christen men men shoulde absteine à sanguine suffocato from blood and all suffocate thinges whiche our reformatours performe not nor will admit any fasting from meates and drinkes at all by the whiche testimonies and proues gathered out of the diuine scriptures howe plaine a matter it is that they purpose not in their reformation to reduce vs to the Primitiue Churche of Christe when therewith besides they haue no agreaunce they doe all thinges cleane to the contrary like as ye haue partlie hearde by profes made therfore out of the diuine scriptures and shal heareafter more at large by the writinges and testimonies of the moste best learned and grauest fathers that euer were in Christes Churche The aunswere The Apostles in that Counsaile made not a perpetuall lawe to binde any mannes conscience but onely a temporall decree to auoide offence of the weake Iewes who were accustomed to abstaine from suche thinges and this decree as occasion serued was broken and altered But where you saie wee can admitte no fastyng from meates and drinkes at all You shall vnderstande that we compte it no fastyng to abstaine from one kinde of meate and to fille your beallie with an other kinde as to refraine fleshe and to glutte your stomack with fishe Or as the Maniches abstained from liuyng creatures and riotted in fruictes spices and delicate
Basile affirmeth that it was a tradition of the Apostles that who so euer did not so he shoulde be deposed therfore wheras our reformatours doe but sprincle a little water in the foreheade of the partie baptized it may be quickly espied that thei follow not the primitiue churche The aunswere Our sauiour Christ commaundeth vs to Baptise in the name of the Father and of the Soonne and of the holie Ghoste whiche whether it bée by dippyng the bodie into the water or by powryng water vpon the bodie the misticall signification of washyng is sufficiently expressed and so longe the Baptisme is right as for the nōber of dippinges is nothyng materiall We read in the scriptures diuers formes of washing The Eunuche was Baptised by Philip goyng in naked into a Riuer or Brooke And so Baptised Ihon in Iordan Other that were Baptised in their houses it is moste like that water was powred on them as Cornelius and them that were with hym And the keper of the prison with his housholde Actes xvj And as for the Ceremonie of thrise dippyng although it was vsed of many to signifie the Trinitie yet was it not generall nor of any necessitie For in the fowerth Counsaile of Toledo it was determined that all was one whether a childe were Baptized with three dippynges or with one alone And yet it was there decreed vpon a good consideration that in Spaine thei should vse but one dippyng The woordes are these in the fowerth Counsaile Toletane and the fiueth Canone Ne tamen haereticis videamur consentire qui tertio mergum dum eorum morem seruamus cautum est ne in Hispaenia fiat baptismus nisi in vna mersione that is to saie Least we should seme to agree with heretikes whiche vse to dippe thrise while wee reteine their maner of baptisyng it is decreed that no Baptisme in Spaine bee ministered but with one onely dippyng In this decree of the Coūsaile twoo thynges especially are to bee noted Firste that the three dippynges was not alwaies and in all places obserued as a necessarie matter and therefore your argumente is fallen to the grounde Secondely that it is profitable to alter and chaunge suche Ceremoeies as are vsed of heretikes that wee seme not to agree with theim in any thyng in whiche it is lawful for vs to disagree And for this consideration doe we refuse to dip thrise because we would not seme to agrée with you whiche are heretikes although wee acknowledge that of it self it is a thyng indifferente to dippe twise or thrise or ones or not at al to dip but onely to poure on water in signe of that spirituall ablution whiche is represented by that Sacramente of Baptisme Wherefore you haue a verie quicke sight that can espie a knotte in a Rushe and of so small a gnat to make so great an Elephante as though all Christianitie stoode in thrise dippyng of a child in Baptisme whiche I haue proued not onely not to haue been alwaies obserued but also by decree of a Counsaill to haue been expressely forbidden Which Ceremonie although it bee noumbred emong the canons commonly called of the Apostles yet hath he a meane iudgement in antiquitie that can not descerne theim from Apostolike writynges But because you bryng in the Tradition of the Apostles you muste nedes giue me leaue to presse you with the same aucthoritie and to shewe that you your self obserue not the Traditions of the Apostles In the vj. Canon of the Apostles it is commaunded that no Bishoppe Prieste nor Deacon shall put awaie his wife vnder colour of religion and thei that doe so shall be excomunicate And in the ninthe and tenthe Canons it is decreed that whosoeuer is presente at the Communion and dooeth not communicate that he should bee excommunicate How these Canons of the Apostles if you will needes haue them so called be obserued in your Popishe Clergie and your priuate Masse what nede I to rehearse And yet you agree with the primitiue Churche in all thynges and we haue none agreaunce therewith at all The Papiste Thirde in the Primitiue churche they vsed Oyle and Chrisma in the ministratiō of diuers Sacramentes which christ hymselfe did ordaine and sainctifie the night before his passion as witnesseth S. Cypriane And his Apostles did commende the same vnto the Churche by their traditions as witnesseth sainct Basile and S. Augustine whiche these our reformatours will none of The aunswere In the Primitiue Churche there was not so many diuerse Sacramentes as you speake of but onely the Sacramente of Baptisme and of the bodie and bloode of christe and in neither of these was there any institution or vsage of oile chrisme And although in the later tyme ceremonies increased that oyle was vsed in baptisme yet was there not so many Sacramentes for Augustine saieth vnto Ianuaerius Epis. 118. Vnde Sacramentis numero paucissimis obseruatione facillimis significatione praestantissimis ▪ societatem noui populi colligauit sicut est Baptismus Trinitatis nomine consecratus communicatio corporis Christi sanguinis ipsius si quid aliud in scripturis canonicis cōmendatur Wherfore saieth Augustine God hath bounde the societie of his newe people with Sacramentes in number fewest in obseruation easiest in significatiō most excellent as is baptisme consecrated in the name of the Trinitie the communion of the bodie and blood of Christe and if any thing els be commended in the Canonicall scriptures The same Augustine and Chrisostome also vpon the water and blood that issued out of Christes side do gather that the Sacramentes of the church flowed out of his side namely Baptisme and the Supper of the lord Aug. Hom. in Ioann 20. Chrysostom ad Neophytos Augustine also in the thirde booke de doctrina christiana Cap. 9. rehearseth but these twoo Sacramentes speakyng of those that are properly called Sacramentes for otherwise both he and other auncient writers extende the name of Sacrament to al ceremonies And yet Gregorie accompteth washyng of feete to be a Sacramente as Baptisme and the Supper whiche is no sacramente with you And as for the ceremonie of annointyng in baptisme it is as lawfull for vs to abrogate as for you to omitte the drinke of milke and Honie after baptisme other such ceremonies which you knowe were vsed as well as oyle and Chrisme But our Sauiour Christe the night before his Passion did ordeine and sanctifie Oyle and Chrisme for suche purposes I meruaile what Cipriane dare be so bolde to affirme it séeyng the Euangelistes make no mention thereof and here againe if you hadde noted the place of Cipriane wee might better haue considered of his aucthoritie Diuerse writinges are set forth in his name whiche were neuer any of his workes The Papiste Fowerth S. Basile saieth that all determiminations and instructions which are preached and kepte in the Primitiue churche of Christe we haue receiued theim partely of the scriptures and partly by the traditions of the Apostles whiche both hath
like force and strength vnto godlynes As for example the instructions which thei haue that trust in the name of Iesus Christe to signe them selues with the signe of Christes crosse to praie towardes the Easte to vse wordes of inuocation at the shewing of the Breade and the Cuppe in the holy Euchariste to blesse the water of the Fonte the Oyle of the holy vnction and that he also which is baptized should be thrise dipped in the water and suche other like thinges whiche are taught and obserued in the Sacramente of Baptisme as to renounce the Deuill and his angels salte spitle and the exorcisme there made to the expulsion of the deuill All these thinges and other like whiche are tought and obserued in christes churche we haue theim saieth sainct Basile ether of the scriptures or els by the tradition of the Apostles whiche are of like force and strēgth vnto pietie and godlynes wheras the reformatours of this English church do esteme and iudge al the premises for impietie and vngodlines The aunswere In this your fowerth argumente if it maie bee called an argumente you huddle vp a number of Ceremonies together all whiche out of Basile you would proue to bee Traditions of the Apostles In deede Basile in the. xxvij Chapiter of his booke De spiritu sancto is driuē to this shifte that either he must acknowledge many suche vnfruictfull Ceremonies as in his tyme were crepte into the churche to be vnprofitable or els to flie to the tradition of vnwritten verities The same in effecte ceaceth Augustine and yet neither of bothe was so ignoraunte but that at suche time as thei did throughly consider either the dignitie of the holie scriptures or the natures of suche humaine Traditions thei iudged otherwise of the whole matter For Basile in his moralles Diffinit xxvi saieth 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. that it behoueth euery woorde and deede to bee aucthorised by the testimonie of the scripture inspired of God bothe for the certaine perswasion of the good and the confusion of the euill And in the 8. diffini 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. If all that is not of faith is synne as the Apostle saieth and faithe is of hearyng and hearyng by the woorde of God what so euer is beside the diuine scripture beyng not of faithe is synne Vpon whiche conclusion a manne maie inferre that all suche Traditions as Basile before defended beyng beside the scriptures ar sinne The same Basile in his brief diffinitions to this question whether it be profitable for theim that come newlie to the faithe immediately to bee instructed out of the scriptures Maketh this aunswere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. It is bothe conueniente and necessarie that euery manne far his necessarie vse should learne out of the diuine scriptures bothe that he maie bee certainely perswaded in his Religion and also that he bee not before accustomed to humaine Traditions Let this therfore suffice for sainct Basile to aunswere hymself Saincte Augustine also in his 118. Epistle where he speaketh moste fauourably for Traditions hath these woordes Sed hoc nimis doleo quod multa quae in diuinis libris saluberrimè praecepta sunt minus curantur tam multis praesumptionibus sic plena sint omnia vt grauius corripiatur qui per octauas suas terram nudo pede tetigerit quam qui mētem vinolentia sipelire est But this saieth Augustine dooeth greue me to muche that many thinges whiche in Gods boke are moste wholsemly commaunded are lesse regarded and all thynges are so full of presumptions that he is more sharpely reproued whiche hath touched the yearth with his bare foote in tyme of his vtas then he that hath buried his mynde with dronkennes And in the same place he saieth of Traditions Quamuis enim neque hoc inueniri possit quomodo contra fidem sint ipsam tamen religionem quam paucissimis manifestissimis celebrationum Sacramentis misericordia dei esse liberam voluit seruilibus oneribus premunt vt tolerabilior sit conditio Iudaeorum qui etiam si tempus libertatis non agnouerint legalibus tamen sarcinis nō humanis praesumptionibus subijciuntur that is to saie For although this can not bee founde how thei are contrary to the faithe yet thei oppresse with sclauishe burdeins the religion it self whiche the mercie of God would haue to bée free with moste fewe and manifeste Sacramentes of celebrations So that the state of the Iewes is more tollerable then ours for although thei haue not acknowledged the tyme of libertie yet thei are subiecte to burthens laied on theim by the lawe not to humaine presumptions By this you see Augustines right iudgemente of suche vnprofitable Ceremonies and Traditions Whiche althoughe Basile and he cōiecture and gesse to haue béen receiued of the Apostles because thei knewe none other originall of theim yet it dooeth not followe that thei were deliuered by the Apostles in deede For many of theim if your owne aucthours dooe not lye were instituted by diuers Popes of Rome long after the age of the Apostles And some it is plaine were inuented by heretikes For the firste that we read of in any auncient and authenticall writer that hadde in reuerence the signe of the Crosse were the Valentiniane heretikes as witnesseth Irenaeus libri primi Capit. 1. whiche thei called Oron crucem confirmatiuam the strengthenyng Crosse. And abused the testimonies of sainct Paule as you Papistes doe where he saieth verbum crucis c. The woorde or preachyng of the crosse mihi non eueniat gloriari c. God forbidde that I should reioyce but in the Crosse of Christe But afterwarde true Christians vsed that signe to testifie vnto Heathen menne that thei were Christians and were not ashamed of the ignominious death of Christ whiche the Gētiles did dispightfully caste in their teeth and at length it grewe to a meare superstition and laste of all to moste horrible Idolatrie when the Image of the Crosse was worshipped sensed and praied vnto Praier towarde the Easte was vsed of the Christians in the aunciente Church to testifie that thei differed from the Iewes who praied towarde the West least thei should seem to worshippe the Sunne risyng as the Gentiles did And although woordes of inuocation were vsed at the shewyng of the bread and the Cuppe yet was there no inuocation of the Sacramentall breade and Cuppe but of God. Of the other Ceremonies of anoinctyng and thrise dipping hath been spoken before That the Apostles vsed no suche blessyng of the water of Baptisme as you doe it is manifeste when thei Baptised in euery Riuer and Brooke that thei came to In dedè thei did cōsecrate the water for that time when they vsed it to serue for the holy vse but did putte no holines into it which should remain after that baptisme was ministred with it as you doe As for the stipulatiō of renouncyng the deuill c. is in dede the doctrine of
propoundeth to Gregorie B. of Rome The Papiste Sixt in the Primitiue churche both men and women made solemne vowes to the abdication of all proprietie in worldlie goodes and possessions and also of perpetuall chastitie as it maie appeare Actes 5. Math. 19 and. 1. Corinth 7. 1. Tim. 5. Exāple wherof was in the time of the Apostles in Iphigenia a professed virgine whō Hirtacus Kyng of Ethiopia woulde nedes haue takē to his wife but the Apostle S. Mathew vouched to him that he coulde not so doe for that she had vowed her virginitie to god VVherupon Hirtacus put the Apostle sainct Mathewe to death as witnesseth Abdias and others The Canons of the Apostles doth prohibite the mariage of priestes The counsel holden at Chalcedon and all the aunciē fathers Dionysius Areopagita S. Basile S. Ambrose S. Augustine S. Chrisostome Epiphanius and diuers others This notwithstandyng our reformatours dooe defende suche mariages to bee lawfull and good hauing no regarde of anie vowe or profession made to the contrarie The aunswere In the Actes are mentioned those that were contente to giue their gooddes in common but no vowe spoken of that thei might neuer haue any proprietie of gooddes Our sauiour Christe also speaketh of some that had made theim self chaste for the kyngdome of heauen hauyng the gift of continencie but noe vowe that thei were bounde vnto Saincte Paule to the i. Corinthians vij chapiter commendeth Virginitie in suche as haue the gifte but he bindeth none with any vowes for if a Virgine marrie he saieth she dooeth not synne But in the firste of Timothe v. he entreateth of widowes whiche as thei were nourished by the Churche so thei did minister vnto the Churche and these made no vowe to God but a promise to the churche that thei would continue vnmarried that thei might attende to their charge beeyng free from housebandes whiche saincte Paule would not haue to bee chosen vnder sixtie yeres of age when carnall luste is paste What is this to yonge girles that are professed Nonnes at fiftene or sixtene yeres of age before thei knowe whether thei are able to liue chaste without any housebande or no As for your fable of Iphigenia and Hirtacus out of your newe founde olde doctour Abdias we giue small credite vnto it the verie names dooe sufficiently bewraie the forgerie whiche sounde nothyng like to the Aethiopian language The Canons cōmonly called of the Apostles doe excōmunicate a bishop or a clearke that doth putte awaie his wife vnder colour of Religion as I haue shewed before The coūsaile of Chalcedon Canon xiij forbiddeth Clerkes to marrie wiues of a contrary Religion as Iewes or Paganes But not simplie forbiddeth thē muche lesse would allowe theim to putte awaie their lawefull wiues But when you proceade further and saie that all the aunciente fathers dooe prohibite Priestes marriage you are to generall For I can bryng you some proues to the contrary In deede the moste of the later sorte of aunciente writers are verie muche addicte to the praise of sole life yet was not marriage cleane taken awaie from priestes for more then a thousande yeres after Christe You rehearse certaine aunciente writers and emōg them Dionysius Areopagita of whō I must admonishe the vnlearned reader that he is not that Dionysius whō saincte Paule at Athenes conuerted but one of muche later tyme For the reste of the Doctours if you had alledged their saiynges as you dooe their names I should haue saied some thyng vnto theim But that all aunciente fathers as you saie doe not forbidde marriage of Priestes and suche as haue vowed virginitie you maie knowe by these examples First Tertullian was a married man and writeth a booke to his wife Epiphanius rehearseth many heretikes whiche forbadde marriage Also of suche as had vowed virginitie and could not keepe their vowe he writeth Contra Apostolicos libr. 2. Tom. 1. haeres 61. Melius est itaque vnum peccatum habere non plura Melius est lapsum à cursu palam sibi vxorem sumere secundum legem á virginitate multo tempore poenitentiā agere sic rurssus ad ecclesiam induci velut qus mala operatus sit velut lapsum fractum obligatione opus habentem non quotidie ocultis iaculis sauciari ab improbitate quae à diabolo ei infertur Sic nouit ecclesia praedicare haec sunt sanationis medicamenta It is better therfore to haue one sinne and not manie It is better for hym that is fallen from his course opēly to take hym a wife accordyng to the lawe and to repente along tyme for his virginitie and so againe to be brought into the church as one that hath doone euill as one that is fallen and brused and hath neede to bee bounde vp and not to be daily wounded with priuie Dartes through the improbitie which is wrought to hym by the Deuill So the Churche knoweth to preache these are the medicines of healyng You see here that Epiphanius woulde haue suche as could not keepe their vowe of virginitie rather to marrie then to burne according to the doctrine ef sainct Paule Chrysostome whose name also you reherse in his second Homelie vpon the first Chapiter of the Epistle to Titus hath these woordes Obstruere prorsus intendit haereticorum ora qui nuptias damnant ostendens eā rem culpa carere imo ita esse pretiosam vt cum ipsa etiam possit quispiam ad sanctum ▪ Episcopatus solium euehi That is to saie He purposeth vtterly to stop the mouthes of heretikes which condemne mariage shewyng how that thing is without faulte yea to be so pretious a thing that with it any man maie be aduaunced to the holy sée of a Bishopricke Chrisostome therfore is not so whole on your side as you make hym no more is any of the auncient fathers though it please you to abuse there names for a shewe But who amonge all the olde writers was either a greater admirer of virginitie or a more defacer of matrimonie then Ierome was and yet he writeth thus of virgines that haue vowed continence ad Demetriadem Sanctum virginum propositum caelestis angelorumque familiae gloriam quarundam non bene se aegentium nomen infamat Quibus apertè dicendum est vt aut nubant si se non possunt continere aut contineant si nolunt nubere That is the ill name of some that behaue not theim selues well dooth slaunder the holy purpose of virgines and the glorie of the heauenly family of aungelles to whom it is openly to be spoken that either thei doe marie if thei can not conteine or els that thei must conteine if thei will not marrie By these witnesses it is apparant that all auncient fathers be not of your iudgement if wee shall beleue their owne writinges rather then your saiynges And cōcerning them that haue vowed continence if they haue any conscience of their vowe and are able to performe it none of vs
exhorteth them to breake it But suche as are not able to performe honestly that whiche thei haue vowed rashely we teach accordyng to the doctrine of sainct Paule that it is better for them repentyng of their rashe vowes to marie then to burne in concupiscens then to committe fornication and vncleanes And this we doe not without the consent of olde writers as partly I haue shewed and more coulde shewe if neede required The Papiste Seuenth in the primitiue churche Images of Christe his Crosse and of his sainctes were vsed as in Cęsarea was the Image of Christ sette vppe by the woman whiche Christe cured of the fluxe of blood as witnesseth Eusebius and Basilius magnus and the generall Counsell holden at Nice of three hundred and tenne Bishoppes doeth constantly affirme and vouche that the Image of Christe and of his Sanctes in the churche were of the tradition of the Apostles And saincte Gregorie Nyssen doeth write howe he did beholde the Image of Christes passion and that oftentymes not without teares and weapyng Chrisostome saieth that he that dooeth any iniurie or valiny to the Image of Caesar he doth cōmitte the same against Caesar hymselfe S. Beade writeth how sainct Aug. entered into this Realme with a Crosse of Siluer and an Image of Christe painted in a table in procession wise singyng the Letanie to whiche notwithstandyng what violence and dishonour hath been doen by our reformatours herein this Realme to the Image of our sauiour Christ and of his sainctes it is not vnknowen The Aunswere It is a proper Primitiue Churche whiche you alledge of the seconde Counsaile of Nice whiche was seuen hundred eightie and one yeres after Christe holden by a multitude of Idolatrous flatteryng and vnlearned Prelates whiche to feede the humor of that wicked Empresse Irene were gathered together not in the name of Christ but against Christ whose expresse commaundemente thei did impugne And with suche leude and vnsensible reasons and wrestynges of the scriptures that if a manne of purpose to mocke the Idolaters woud inuente argumentes to laugh at hee coulde not diuise more ridiculous matters God made manne after his owne Image ergo wee muste make Images God is meruailous in his sainctes ergo we must make Images Theodofius of Amorie reasoneth whatsoeuer is written is written for our learnyng ergo wee must haue Images to teache vs No manne lighteth a candell and putteth it vnder a Bushell ergo Images must bee sette on the Alters with a hundreth suche substanciall proofes And to make the matter mooste manifeste Theodorus bishop of Myre proueth that Images must be worshiped by his Archedeacons dreames and so dooeth other by dreames and miracles and at laste Tharasius Archebishoppe of Constantinople with the whole Synode concludeth that Angelles haue bodies and mennes soules also be bodily and therefore thei maie bee paincted Againste this Idolatrous vnlearned and blasphemous Counsaile Carolus Magnus wrote a booke whiche is extante in whiche he confuteth the grosse heresie of adoration of Images As for the primatiue churche of Christ regardyng the seconde commaundement of God did make no kinde of Images to bee had in any vse of religion but vtterly forbad them As for the Image of Christ whereof Eusebius speaketh if it were true was onely a monumente of the historie sette vp in the streate in remembraunce of the miracle not in the churche to bee had in veneration or worshipped Neither was there any Image receiued into the Churche for three hundreth yeres after Christe The Epistle of Epiphanius translated by saincte Hierome is a notable testimonie Cum venissem ad villam quae dicitur Anablatha vidissemque ibi praeteriens lucernam c. When I came to a village whiche is called Anablatha and sawe there as I passed by a candell burnyng and inquiryng what place it was and vnderstandyng that it was a Churche I entered in to praie and founde there a vaile or linnen clothe hangyng at the doore of the saied churche stained and painted and hauyng an Image as it were of Christ or of some saincte For I dooe not well remember whose Image it was Therefore when I sawe this thing that the Image of a man was hanged vp in the Churche contrary to the aucthoritie of the Scriptures I did rende it in péeces and gaue counsaile to the kepers of that place rather to wrappe it about some poore bodie that was deade to burie hym with all Contrariwise thei murmured and saied If he would néedes rende it it were reason he should giue vs an other vaile for it and so chaunge it Whiche thing when I heard I promised that I would giue theim one aad sende it shortlie There passed not long tyme but that I sought to sende theim a verie good vaile for it For I thought that one shoulde haue been sente me out of Cypres And nowe I haue sente suche a one as I could gette And I praie you to commaunde the Elders of that place to receiue that Vaile of this bearer whiche is sente by vs And to giue theim charge that hereafter in the Churche of Christe suche vailes bee not hanged vp whiche are contrary to our Religion This writeth Epiphanius to Ihon bishoppe of Hierusalem by whiche it is euidente what was thought of Images at that tyme when a painted vaile might not bée hanged before a Churche doore to keepe out the winde or for some suche purpose and not in any respect of religion or worshipping The same Epiphanius emong the heresies of Carpocrates rehearseth that he made priuilie the Image of Iesu Paule Homer and Pithagoras and worshipped them Also he inueigheth sharply against the Antidicomarians and Collyridians for vsyng and worshippyng the Image of Marie the Virgine As for your testimonies out of Gregorie Nyssene and Chrysostome serue nothyng to the purpose for Gregorie speaketh not of the historie of Christes passion as you vntruely report but of the oblation of Isaac by his father Abraham Conc. Nicen. 2. actione iiij But this picture was in some priuate place not in the Churche and place of worshippyng And Chrysostome in his saiyng concludeth not that therefore we must haue Images of GOD and of Christe in the Churche but he that doeth iniurie to any manne that is made after the Image of god or disobeieth a Magistrate which representeth the persone of god c. He doth iniurie to god For he that maketh any Image of God doeth God greate iniurie transformyng the glorie of the inuisible GOD into the shape of any corruptible creature Rom. j. But what Chrysostome and diuers other godlie fathers thought of the vse of Images in the churche is exdressed in the counsaile of Ephesus which condemned Images before the Counsaile of Nice whiche restored theim And the Counsaile Elibertinum fower hundreth yeres before that vnder Constantine the greate made this decree Capt. xxxvi Placuit picturas in ecclesia esse non debere ne quod colitur aut adoratur in parietibus depingatur That is It is thought
good that pictures ought not to bée in the Churche leaste that thyng whiche is worshipped and honoured should bee painted on the walles To conclude that whiche you alledge out of Beda concernyng Dan Augustine the Monke I will aunswere by the aucthoritie of sainct Augustine the Bishoppe who in his boke De consensu Euāgelistarum libr. i. Capit. 10. Speakyng of certaine Heathen aduersaries whiche noumbred Paule emong the twelue Apostles that were with Christe while he liued writeth in these woordes Credo quod pluribus locis simul eos cum illo pictos viderunt quià merita Petri Pauli etiam propter eundem passionis diem celebrius solemniter Roma commendat Sic omnino errare meruerunt qui Christum Apostolos eius non in sanctis codicibus sed in pictis parietibus quaesierunt I beleue that in many places thei sawe theim painted together with hym because the Citie of Rome commendeth the worthinesse of Peter and Paule more notably and solemnely because of the same daie of their sufferyng So altogether thei were worthie to bée deceiued whiche sought Christ and his Apostles not in the holie scriptures but in painted walles And so all thei that followed your Augustines superstitions were iustely blinded and deceiued because thei sought not Christ in the scriptures but in painted Tables whiche is the punishemente due for Idolatrie as sainct Paule testifieth Roma j. The Papiste Eight in the primatiue church the maner of fastyng was merueilous streight in so much that Faustus Manicheus 1300. yeres agoe did taxe the christiane men that they should in tyme of Lente absteine from all meate that is spoken of by the Apostle S. Paule in the first to Timothy the fowerth Chapiter And did blaspheme the doyng and teachyng of Christes churche to be doctrinam daemoniorum But Ierome vpon the same place doth make answere like as sainct Augustine in manie places that the church in their fasting to absteine from meate not therby to condemne any kynde of meate as Manichaeus did but for penance and to subdue the carnall concupiscens and suche other like good purposes ▪ And farther for the streight fasting in the primitiue Churche S. Iheronime writeth ad Nepotianum Epiphanius in Anchorato whiche is nowe thought of these reformatours to be superfluous and folishe and therfore they mind not to reduce and bring vs to the order of the primitiue churche The aunswere Concernyng Fastyng I haue spoken sufficiently in aunswere of your tenth argumente out of the scriptures where you make mention of fastyng also Euseb. lib. v. Capit. xviij Testifieth that Montanus the heretike was the firste that prescribed lawes of fastyng whom you followe altogether And especially the heretikes call Archontici of whom Epiphanius writeth lib. i. Tom. iij. Here. 40. whiche pretended fastyng but obserued none in deede and the Manichees of whom S. Augustine testifieth that vnder colour of abstinence thei refrained from eatyng of any liuyng thyng and from drinkyng wine yet did thei glutte and pamper theim selues with delicate frutes and spices with drinke made of the iuice of Dates c. such was your Popishe faste on Fridaies at Dinner to eate no fleshe but as muche fishe as the beallie would holde with good store of wine at night to eate no liuyng creatures but Figges Reasons Almondes Wardens and Quinces baked Suckette and Marmelade and other fruites conserued with good wine or Hipocras to helpe digestion This was a straight kind of faste yet this was Catholicke enough so long as greate Prelates vsed it The Papispte Ninth in the primitiue churche they vsed praier for the soules departed whiche was the tradition of the Apostles as witnesseth Dyonysius Areopagita de caelesti Hierarchia Cap. 7. Epiphanius Chrisostom in 1. ad Cor. Hom. 41. in Math. 33. Hō 69. ad populum Antiochenum whiche thinge is proued also by the Scriptures affirmed of all auncient writers and hath alwaies been continued in Christes Churche and now denied and taken awaie by oure reformatours and therefore they minde no to reduce vs to the primitiue churche The aunswere I must needes confesse that praier for the deade is one of the oldeste heresies that the Papistes doe maintaine and yet hath it no aucthoritie of Gods worde nor of the primitiue Churche for twoo hundreth yeres after Christe Thei vsed in deede to make mention of theim at the celebration of the Communion and to giue God thankes for them whiche some tyme is called a Sacrifice offered for thē as of Cypriane Lib. iiii Epist. v. Speaking of Martyres of whom none doubteth but thei were in heauen and neded no praiers to bee made for them Sacrificia pro eis semper vt meministis offerimus quoties martyrum passiones dies anniuersaria commemoratione celebramus That is Wee offer Sacrifice for theim alwaies as you remember so often as wee celebrate the passion or dayes of the Martyres by yerely commemoration But this vnproper kinde of speakyng and bolde attemptes without scripture to name the deade in the Communion did bréede in the posteritie many errours as praier for the deade the Sacrifice of the Masse for the deade Purgatorie and suche other But in this nineth argumente you bewraie your fraudulent dealing in the other for here you note the places of the doctours whiche you knowe no manne will denie and in other places where you affirme that none of vs will graunte you alledge their names onely without quotyng the places The Papiste Tenth in the Primitiue churche christen men were taught to arme them selues with the signe of the Crosse whiche consignatiō of the Crosse was vsed in the administration of the Sacramentes and that of necessitie as sainct Augustine saieth wordes also of inuocation before the consecration of the Sacrament of the Aulter were vsed in the primitiue churche like as the sanctifiyng of the Fonte the blessyng also of the Chrisme and Oyle to annoincte the partie baptized all which thinges were of the traditions of the Apostles as witnesseth Basili sainct Cyprian sainct Augustine Damas and many other ▪ whiche thinges beeyng now vtterly abolished by the newe reformatours they purpose not to bring vs to the order of the Primitiue churche Seeyng therefore it can not bee denied by so many testimonies gathered out of the diuine Scriptures and holy fathers that they agree not with the primitiue churche of christe but doe dissent and are cleane gone from it in so many diuerse poinctes as I haue expressed Therefore this their reformation to reduce vs to the primitiue churche is onely pretended of their partes and shall neuer be proued The aunswere You leape to and fro backwarde and forwarde more like to one that daunseth then that disputeth Haue wée not hearde enough before of crossyng and blessyng of Oile and Chrisme But thei must now be repeated againe whiche if thei were graunted to you and vsed of vs as thei were in tyme of those doctours whose names you recite what had you gained ther by It
to proue that our Religion standeth not all vpon negatiues but chiefly vppon affirmatiues it shall bée sufficiente to declare that we beleue and affirme all the articles of the Christian faithe and what soeuer is affirmed in the woorde of God as truthe like as wee denie all falshode and vntruthe We beleue and affirme that there is but one GOD wée affirme that in this God-heade there are three persones distincte but not diuided Wee affirme that the sonne of God was conceiued by the holie Ghoste borne of the virgine Marie and so foorthe as it followeth in the Crede by whiche it is manifeste that our Religion standeth not all in negatiues The Papiste Saincte Augustine doth define religion to be cultus diuinus a diuine seruice dew vnto God wherby as Isidore saieth wee dooe binde our selues to the worshipyng of God with a full purpose and intente to serue god True religion beyng in this wise put in a dewe worshippe and seruice to be doen vnto GOD the late begonne religion of this reformed Churche can not bee the true religion of GOD for as muche as it doeth not consiste in any action or seruice more now vnto God then was before but onely this religion standeth as I suppose by negatiues by an ouerthrowe and subuersiō makyng of all thinges before appoincted for the gouernement of his people both in the olde Testament and newe some preceptes whiche were morall some iudiciall some ceremoniall also sacrifice and sacramentes the doctrine of this newe religion and reformed Churche whiche as I saied dooeth stande onely or wholy by negatiues doeth denie The aunswere I will not stande in argumente with you whether this be a full difinition of religion whiche you alledge out of Saincte Augustine It is not by and by a diffinitiō of Religion whiche maie bee truely saied of Religion But what should moue you to thinke that our Religion teacheth not menne to worshippe God When we onely teache the right kinde of Gods seruice sette forthe in his woorde whereas you and all other heretikes worshippe God after the preceptes of menne which is no religion but superstition You saie our religion doth not consist in any action or seruice more nowe vnto God then was before but howe true this is let euery man iudge when we ascribe all religious seruice obedience honour faieth inuocation and thankes geuyng onely to God by our sauiour christe wheras you giue the greatest parte thereof to creatures some to Images some to sainctes departed some to your owne merites some to your beggerlie Ceremonies Let euery man therefore iudge whether our religion giue not more to God in Christ then you when we giue all to God the onely aucthour of all goodnes and Christe our only mediatour of all benefites to bee receiued of God and you giue him but parte of al the seruice that is due to hym and make so many mediatours beside our sauiour Christe Finally wher as you charge vs with the subuersiō of the preceptes moral ceremonial and iudiciall of Gods lawe it is a straunge matter to see your boldnes What morall preceptes of God doe we gainsaie doe wee not teache menne to obserue all the tenne Commaundementes And what Ceremonial lawes remaine there to vs which were not vtterly abrogated by Christ As for the iudiciall preceptes of the Iewishe lawe who euer required the christians to be bounde vnto theim The onely propiciatorie sacrifice of Christes Passion wee embrace al Sacramentes of christes institution Wherfore we neither stande al vppon negatiues neither denie we anie thing that we ought to affirme as true The Papiste First it denieth that the morall preceptes are possible to be kepte of man. The aunswere It shal not be néedefull our doctrine beyng so commonly knowen to the worlde to make a large discourse vpon euery one of these negatiues but onely to declare briefly how we denie them and to shewe a reason of our deniall We denie in deede that it is possible for any manne excepte Christe onely to keepe the morall preceptes of god Which is not suche a straunge paradoxe to any man that is not a starke hypocrite but his owne conscience will testifie the same vnto hym The morall preceptes are conteined in these twoo poinctes as our sauiour testifieth Thou shalte loue the Lorde thy GOD with all thy harte with all thy soule with all thy strengthe and thy neighbour as thy self Who is so paste all feare of God that he dare affirme that he is able to performe this Againe what is the cause that the scripture dooeth so often pronounce that no man can be iustified by the woorkes of the lawe but because no manne can fulfill the lawe Whiche if a man could performe he should liue therein and haue eternall saluation without Christe but no man can bee saued without Christ therefore no manne can fulfill the lawe For the lawe was giuē to shewe vs our weakenesse and so to bring vs to Christ. The Papiste Seconde it denieth that any iudgement in spirituall causes or in the high courte of conscience is to be geuen to the Prieste The aunswere The high courte of conscience is Gods owne iurisdiction the iudgement whereof perteineth neither to Prieste nor laie manne but to God alone But in causes spirituall to iudge according to the worde of God wee dooe not deny but it pertaineth to Ecclesiasticall persones from whiche rule of iustice if any of theim departe he is subiecte to the correction and punishemente of the Ciuile Magistrate As Aaron had his aucthoritie of iudgemēt in Spirituall causes yet was he reproued by Moises And Abiathar the high Priest was deposed by Salomon and Sadoc sett vp in his place And should not Ahaz if he had been a godlie Prince haue deposed Vriah for makyng the prophane alter The Papiste Thirde it dooeth denie all kinde of Ceremonies The aunswere Wee denie all kinde of Ceremonies that are of mannes inuention to worship God or to merite saluation by them For in the worshippe of God wee muste dooe onely that he commaundeth vs Other Ceremonies that are onely for order and decencie ordeined in the Churche wée receiue as I haue often shewed before The Papiste Fowerth it doeth denie the sacrifice of christes Testamente The aunswere The Sacrifice propitiatorie that onely taketh awaie the synnes of the worlde is the Sacrifice whiche Christe offered ones for all vpon the aulter of the crosse and thereby makyng perfecte for euer those that are sanctified can not be repeated without horrible iniurie dooen vnto the Passion of Christe and the merites thereof Hebr. vij ix x. and almost through out the whole Epistle In deede the Sacrifice of the Masse ▪ if it bee the Sacrifice ye meane wée vtterly deteste as blasphemous and abhominable For whiche you haue neither commaundemente nor example of Christe what soeuer you pretende by these woordes of our Sauiour Dooe this in remembraunce of me For besides that to celebrate the remēbraunce of Christe in the Sacramente hath
nothyng to dooe with a Sacrifice by those woordes it is easie to proue that you can offer vp no Sacrifice in the celebration of the Sacramente For by this woorde of Christe dooe this you can dooe no more but that whiche Christe then did But Christe did then offer no Sacrifice of his bodie therefore you can offer no Sacrifice of his bodie That Christe did then offer no Sacrifice of his bodie is manifeste by the Apostle to the Hebrues whiche often tymes testifieth that he offered hym self but ones whiche was on the Crosse Chapit vij ix x. therefore he did not offer hym self on the table at his supper as you moste falsely surmise The Papiste Fifte it dooeth denie the Sacramentes of christes churche The aunswere Wee receiue the Sacramente of Baptisme and of the Lordes Supper which onely wee finde in the scripture the other fiue whiche you call Sacramentes because we finde theim not in the scripture instituted of Christe in the nature of Sacramentes we dooe not receiue theim as Sacramentes Matrimonie Confirmation election of Ecclesiasticall ministers with their aucthoritie as wee finde theim by the woorde of God so wee retaine the pure institution of theim refusyng the corruption and superstition builded vpon them by Antichriste Extreme vnction is an idle Ceremonie and nothyng pertainyng to our tyme as I haue declared before for that cause is iustely abrogated The Papiste Sixte it doth denie the real presence of christes bodie and blood in the holy Eucharist The aunswere Wée dooe not denie the reall presence of Christes bodie to the faithe of him that receiueth worthely But the carnall and grosse immagination of transubstanciation whiche is contrary to the scriptures whiche teacheth that the bodie of christe is like vnto our bodies in all thynges synne excepted and therefore can not bee in diuerse places at one tyme and is also contrary to the doctrine openly taught in the Churche for seuen or eight hundreth yeres after Christe For Bertramus did write his treatise as some thinke to Carolus Caluus whiche liued eight hundreth yeres after Christe The Papiste Seuenth it dooeth denie that Christes Churche is visible or possible heare to bee knowen The aunswere We denie that the Churche of Christ is visible to the worlde at all tymes because our sauiour Christ prophecieth that the moste parte of the worlde should bee deceiued by false Prophetes Math. xxiiij and S. Paule prophesieth of the generall apostasie that should bee made by Antichriste Sainct Ihon also in the Reuelation sheweth that the Churche should flie into the wildernesse and all the worlde should worshippe Antichriste Apoca. xij and. xiij Wherefore the Churche is not alwaies in sight of the worlde although it bee sometyme deliuered from suche extreme persecution as it is God bee thanked at this tyme. The Papiste Eight it doeth denie the free choise and will of man. The aunswere Wée affirme that Adam by his falle loste the fredome of his will bothe in him self and from his posteritie So that a mā hath nowe no freedome of will so muche as to thinke a good thoughte ij Corin. iij. much lesse to do we any good of our selues Whiche seeyng it is the iuste iudgemente of God vpon Adam and his posteritie for synne we make not God aucthour of euil as prophane dogges doe barke against vs or rather against God but iuste in all his iudgementes and holie in all his waies But of free wille I shall haue occasion to speake more hereafter toward the latter ende of your discourse The Papiste Ninth it dooeth denie our iustification by penance by Baptisme by hope by charitie and good workes The aunswere Wée affirme with saincte Paule that a manne is iustified before God by faithe without the deedes of the lawe Rom. iij. not that deade faithe whiche saincte Iames speaketh of but a liuely and fruictefull faithe that woorketh by loue But of iustification I muste speake more hereafter The Papiste Tenth it dooeth denie the merites of all good workes Gods promises made to the contrarie notwithstandyng The aunswere Wee affirme that all good woorkes shall be rewarded by God for his promise sake but neither for worthines of them nor for the worthines of vs For the worthinesse of theim deserueth nothyng because thei are vnperfecte And our worthinesse in doyng theim dooeth merite nothyng because thei proceade of God and not of vs and secondly because our synnes are many more in noumber then our good deedes And when we haue dooen all that wee are bidden wee are vnprofitable seruauntes Luke the. xvij therefore wee deserue nothyng by theim but that GOD of his infinite mercie vouchsaueth for his promise sake in Christe to accepte them and reward them The Papiste Eleuenth it doeth denie fastyng from any one kinde of meate more then an other or vpon this daie more then an other The aunswere To teache men to abstaine from meates and marriage is the doctrine of Deuilles j. Timo. iiij Otherwise true faste we deny not but affirme and commende as hath been declared ones or twise before The Papiste Twelft it doeth denie tyme and daies of watches and praiers The aunswere We deny the superstitious obseruation of daies and tymes but wee affirme allowe and vse certaine daies and tymes appoicted for praier and godlie exercises By watches if you meane your vigiles of sainctes daies you your selues vse onely the name and not the obseruatiō of those watches Whiche although thei were vsed of olde in the Churche yet for diuers inconueniences thei were lefte of and by decree of the Counsaile Elibertinū abrogated Can. 35. The Papiste Thirtene it doeth denie the obseruation of holy and solemne promises and vowes made vnto God. The aunswere We doe not denie the obseruations of any lawfull promises made vnto GOD that are possible to bee kepte of those that make theim But wee teache menne not to bee rashe in makyng promises before thei bee sure that thei are able to performe them And if thei haue made a rash or vnaduised vowe as to abstaine from Marriage whiche thei are not able to obserue but by committyng fornication and vncleannesse wee counsaile theim to repente of their rashenesse and to retourne to the ordinaunce of GOD whiche is the remeadie of incontinence rather then to leade an abhominable life in filthinesse The Papiste Fowertene it dooeth denie the chaste life apertainyng to the order of Priesthode The aunswere We affirme that chaste life appertaineth to all menne and especially to Ecclesiasticall ministers But we do not compt marriage an vnchaste life as you doe but holie and honourable in all menne and the marriage bedde to be vndefiled Hebr. xiij And seeyng that the holie ghoste by sainct Paule in his Epistles to Timothe and Titus describyng the beste qualities required in Bishoppes and Deacons allowed marriage wee dare not presume to disalowe it or to forbidde any man from it leaste wee should teache the doctrine of Deuilles as you doe The Papiste Fiftene ie doth deny the inuocation and
that Christe onely is the heade of his vniuersall Churche wee doe it not to the honour of Christ but wée include the negation of a farre better thing that is the supremacie of the Pope Whiche by your assertion is a farre more better thyng then the supremacie of christ So when we affirme that onely the scripture must bee the rule of true Religion it maketh nothyng for Religion to worshippe God as he hath commaunded but it includeth a negation of vnwritten verities whiche are farre more better thinges then the scripture When we affirme that we must put our trust in God alone we doe no honour to God therby but we denie that men muste put their trust in creatures which by your rule is a farre more better thyng then to putte our truste in God alone When wee affirme that wée must praie to God alone it perteineth nothyng to Gods seruice but includeth the negation of praiyng vnto sainctes whiche is a farre more better thyng then to pray vnto god And when we affirme that the onely Sacrifice of Christes passion is sufficiente for our saluation we yelde no honour to God thereby but denie the Sacrifice of the Masse whiche is a farre better thyng then the Sacrifice of Christes passiō And thus if I had leasure and pleasure as you haue to number examples by tennes and by twenties I might reherse a whole hundreth of the like sorte The Papiste As for example their affirmation that it is lawfull for Priestes to take wiues is a denial of chaste and continent life of priestes whiche as the Apostle sainct Paule saieth is muche farre better The aunswere Wee so affirme marriage of Ecclesiasticall ministers as an honourable and a chaste life neither doe wée denie continēs to those that haue the gifte thereof And whereas you vouche sainct Paule to warantie I aunswere that saincte Paule in no place dooeth require virginitie of Ecclesiasticall persones and wheresoeuer he commendeth it he praiseth it no more in priestes then in laie menne I would all menne were saieth he as I am but euery one hath his proper gifte of God some of one sorte and some of an other j. Cor. vij The Papiste Their affirmation that Freers Monkes and Nonnes maie mary together is a flatte deniyng of the vowe of chastetie which by sainct Paules iudgemente is farre better The aunswere Wée denie not the obseruation of any promises or vowes whiche are lawfull for menne to make and possible for them to performe Neither doeth saincte Paule at any time commende any suche vowes or allowe them to bée kepte but geueth a generall rule that to auoide fornication lett euery manne haue his wife and euery woman her housebande j. Cor. vij And if a virgine marrie she sinneth not so that if you would vnderstande virgines in that place for vowed Nonnes you should manifestely contrary your self that coumpte it so heinous a matter for a Nonne to marrie And as for the widowes whiche as I said before made no vowes to God but promises to the churche if you would needes vnderstande theim for Nonnes Sainct Paule saieth it is better for them that are vnder three score yere old to marie and beare children then to vowe chastitie j. Timo. v. The Papiste Their affirmatiō that the diuorced man maie againe marie is a plaine deniall of reconciliacion whiche ought to bee made againe betwixt man and wife the Apostle saincte Paule geuyng counsell thereof that the womā beyng departed from her housebande shoulde remaine vnmaried to bee reconciled againe vnto her housebande The aunswere Concernyng diuorses if that whiche wee wishe might take place all controuersies should bee cutte of For we wishe that adulterers accordyng to the lawe of God should be punished with death But if the Ciuile Lawe dooeth faile in that poincte the nexte remeadie for the innocente partie is diuorcemente and after deuorcement marriage if he can not liue vnmarried For our sauiour Christ excepteth the case of fornication as well for marriage after deuorcemente as for the diuorcemente it self Math. xix And for amendemente of the partie offendant the Ecclesiasticall sworde of Excommunication muste bee drawne out whiche muste continue so longe vpon the offendour vntill his vnfeigned and hartie repentance doe sufficiently appeare to the Congregation Whiche in that case maie not refuse to receiue him againe The partie then so receiued bothe of god and the church and not beyng able to leade to a continente life is at libertie to marrie also in the Lorde For the firste marriage by the diuorcemente is as clearely dissolued as if it had neuer been And as concernyng the reconciliation sainct Paule speaketh of he meaneth not betwene them that are lawfully diuorced But betwene those that separate them selues without a sufficiente cause whiche is onely fornication Like as our sauiour Christ when he saith that who so marrieth her that is putte awaie committeth adulterie vnderstandeth of her that is vnlawfully putte awaie for any other cause beside fornication in all whiche causes the case of adulterie onely excepted she continueth still wife to hym that did putte her awaie so that he whiche marrieth her marrieth an other mannes wife and so committeth adulterie But she that is diuorsed for adulterie is no mannes wife and therefore he that marrieth her committeth none adulterie The Papiste Their affirmation that breade and wine is the whole substance of the holy Eucharistia is a plaine deniall of Christes very bodie in the same whiche is muche farre better and a thinge of a farre more greater price then breade and wine is So that by their affirmations thei doe nothing better but soner appaire and diminishe the preciousnes of euerie thing they medle with all The aunswere Wée do not so affirme bread and wine in the Sacrament that we denie the presence of the bodie and bloud of Christe to the faithe of the worthie receiuer But that grosse and carnall presence whiche you dooe faigne to bee receiued as well of wicked menne as of Godlie whiche immagination beyng of fleshe without the spirite our Sauiour Christe affirmeth to be altogether vnprofitable For if you did not separate it from the spirite it muste nedes giue life to those that receiue it As Christe hymself affirmeth whosoeuer eateth his fleshe and drinketh his blood hath life euerlastyng Ihon. vj. Againe you feigned presence is vnpossible to the nature of his humaine bodie whiche he hath in al poinctes like to ours sinne excepted Heb. ij and. iiij The Papiste And by their affirmation that onely saieth doth iustifie they doe denie all other thinges els as Baptisme penaunce Confirmation the holy Eucharistia hope charity and generally all kinde of good workes For all learnyng doeth agree of three kindes of Iustifications to be expressed in holy scripture whereof the firste iustication is Qua quis ex impio fit iustus wherby a mā is made of a wicked man and a member of the Deuill a good manne and a verie member of Christe the whiche iustification