successe to the Preaching of the Gospell as thanks be to his holy Majesty it hath had in many kingdomes since Martin Luthers time and shall have every day more and more ANSWER This which you now mention is well spoken and not amisse For true it is that at the fixt verse the second part of the Chapter beginneth wherein the downfall of Antichrist is proclamed by three preaching Angels the first whereof is said to fly through the midst of Heaven having an everlasting Gospell to Preach By which and those other Angels following we are not to understand any coelestiall Angel in respect of the accomplishment of this Prophesie but rather some speciall Ministers of God whom the Lord stirred up as his instruments to work a reformation in the Church And yet I deny not but that Saint John saw the representation of this in that heavenly theater wherein his visions were represented to him in the seeming shape and person of a celestiall Angel which was but to shew that at the time appointed God intended the accomplishment of this and the like appearances by such instruments as were pre-ordained for the same purpose DIALOGUE Gent. I am glad to heare this I pray you goe on to shew where the meaning of Christ is perverted Min. On Michaelmasse day the twelfth chapter from the seventh verse to the thirteenth is appointed to be read for an Epistle it being no Epistle but a prophesie c. ANSWER The Corinthians you know are termed Pauls Epistle written in his heart an Epistle for that they were in stead of an Epistle as Theophylact observeth So this Scripture howsoever not an Epistle properly may stand in stead of an Epistle For the denomination given to this and other portions of Scripture taken out of the Prophets Acts and Revelation is retained in respect of the greater part which is taken out of the Epistles and not because they be in themselves Epistles properly which why it should be quarrelled with is more then needeth But you go on and tell us That it is a Prophesie of a battell fought in Heaven between Michael and his Angels and the Dragon and his Angels and of the victory that Michael and his Angels had over the Dragon and his Angels and of the casting of the Dragon and his Angels out of Heaven all which is true and not at all to be denyed DIALOGUE Gent. What is meant by Heaven Min. By Heaven is meant not the highest heaven but the Church of Christ militant here on earth ANSWER Concerning this warre in Heaven you speak well enough For in respect of the vision seen it was shewed in that heaven or heavenly theater where Saint John saw the representation of these things as I think need not be denyed and not in heaven it self For in heaven properly taken there is no fighting the warfare of those who inhabite there is quite ended they are all triumphant they rest in joyfull peace But in respect of the accomplishment there is cause enough to grant that we are pointed either to the Church of God which is a kinde of heaven upon earth or else to that heaven whither the womans Childe was taken up after his mother had brought him forth for the Dragon in the Imperiall Dragons or heathen persecuting Emperours raigned over the Church till then I mean till Constantine subdued them who hanged up on high over the gates of his Palace a Table wherein was painted a Dragon which lay thrust through with a dart under his own and his subjects feet DIALOGUE Min. By Michael and his Angels are meant Christ and his true followers especially the faithfull Preachers of the Gospel ANSWER This is also reasonably well expounded but not full enough For the accomplishment it selfe sheweth that Constantine is chiefly to be comprehended amongst those of Michaels Angels who fought with the Dragon and his Angels as if I were to write purposely of these things I could shew at large DIALOGUE Gent. What is meant by the Dragon and his Angels Min. By the Dragon and his Angels are meant the Devill and the heathen persecuting Emperours and the Popes ANSWER Not the Popes for this was a vision of what was done before their times The vision which belongs to them is in the next chapter and in the account of times came not in thus soone In the rest you speak right enough For though that old Serpent which is called the Devill and Sathan be the Dragon primarily yet neverthelesse the instruments of his fury are secondarily termed Dragons too as well as he for which we may see the Scriptures in Jer. 51.34 Ezek. 29.3 Psal 74.13,14 Esa 27.1 and chap. 51.9 And so also for his Angels not onely the infernall Hags of Hell are meant but even the wicked men who were of his side and helped to fight against the truth for which we may likewise see the Scriptures in Pro. 17.11 Revel 2.10 and chap. 9.14 DIALOGUE Gent. What is meant by the Battell Min. By the battell is meant persecutions raised by the heathen persecuting Emperours and the Popes and the popish Princes against the Christian Religion and the professors thereof ANSWER You extend again the Vision too farre in bringing it down so low as the Popes and popish Princes For it is a Prophesie of a warre begun and finished before the Dragon went forth to make warre with the remnant of the womans seed which warre was indeed in the dayes of Antichrist and is found to have relation first of all to those cruell warres of the Beast against the Albigenses and Waldenses together with all such as were if any were called by other name professing the true worship of Christ and hath hitherto continued still against the Saints both in Martyrdomes Inquisitions Massacres and the like but the horns of the beast falling from him by degrees shall at the last give an end to this warre and being become partners with the Saints as many of them already are shall turne their forces against the Beast as in the 17. Chapter may be seene And for your better instruction you may see it in the end of the 12. Chapter how that S. John saith he saw the Dragon standing upon the Sea-shore or upon the sand of the Sea which was not onely a good while after the Battell that he had with Michael but was also for the raising up of the Beast to doe that which you here mention to be done by the Popes and Popish Princes DIALOGUE Gent. What is meant by the victory that Michael and his Angels bad over the Dragon and his Angels Min. By the victory is meant the victories that Christ gave to Constantine the Christian Emperour and that he hath doth and daily will give to Christian Princes fighting his battell against Antichrist and his partakers and to the faithfull Preachers against false Teachers ANSWER Here still you faile by carrying the accomplishment lower then the dayes of Constantine The successe of Christian Princes against Antichrist
Christ and acknowledge him to be Lord of all and to have power over all to save and condemne whom he will ANSWER You undertake at the first to speake of things in the Common-Prayer-Booke but now I see you are fallen upon something else His name as you say which first commanded to bow at the name of Iesus was Anastatius a man I hope of an earlier date than either to be termed Pope by way of derision or to bee slighted for his care about this custome which the Church was acquainted with a long time before hee was ever Bishop of Rome Saint Hierom in his Comment upon Esay the 45.23 which is the very text alledged by you to be a testimony against bowing of the knee speakes of it as no new thing in his time for It is saith hee the custome of the Church to bow the knee to CHRIST which the Jewes shewing the perversenesse of their minds altogether refuse to doe noting thereby that it was so farre from being new as that it was come to bee one of the Churches customes Zanchy is able to say that the use is ancient Nor do men of great reading but affirme that it was used in the time of Arius which must needs be in the Primitive times because Arius was before the first Councell of Nice Nor might it but bee used sooner if wee cast an eye to the scoffings of the Jewes For the Jewes began to scoffe and mocke at our Saviour in allusion to his name even when he suffered and have ever since derided the Christians with their crucified Iesus Thus the chiefe Priests mocking him with the Scribes and Elders alluding to his name Jesus said He saved others himselfe he cannot save Matth. 27.42 And as Marlorat speaketh Marl. in Mat. ch 1. â— 21. The Jewes in scorn and derision to this day cal our Saviour not Jesus but Jehu which with them signifieth only some common and contemptible fellow As then the name Iesus is that name in which he was derided and which they abuse by their chopping and changing that they might thereby abase our Saviour and with which they flout us for our faith so is it that name in which he must bee honoured The Father hath assigned so much unto him and wee are bound to afford it as a part of his reward for the death of the Crosse His person wee know is taken from us but his Name he hath left still with us And as his Person for suffering is crowned with honour and glory Heb. 2.9 So must his Name be so farre exalted as that at the Name of Iesus every knee must bow Phil. 2.10 And thus will your figurative exposition be nothing worth though illustrated by a comparison of things done in the Kings name For at the name of Jesus is meant Jesus named to whom we how when we heare him called by that name For though his Person bee exalted and sitteth at the right hand of God yet his Name in which he was despised is not exalted by us as it ought except we also reverence his Person upon the mentioning of that name which God hath given him to bee above every Name that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow Where is then the Idoll which you speak of it would trouble you sure to finde it out and therefore that calumnie was either ignorantly cast upon the Bishops or maliciously to bring upon them the greater Odium obloquie contempt and scorne But others you say were called Jesus as well as our Lord and Saviour true some others have had that name given them by humane imposition but not as given to our Redeemer by God with a command of his adoration Ther 's none of them that could either doe that which hee did or be saved but by him and must therefore so resigne this name to him as that he beare it with a maine difference from them all And as for that which you say of the holy Angels and soules of the faithfull which have no knees they have their wayes surely to doe that which wee doe in our bodies else it would never bee given in charge that all the Angels of GOD must worship him Hebr. 1.6 Nor bee written that the Saints in Heaven fall downe before him Rev. 5.8,9 Nor may them in Hell bee excluded For though it bee a torment to them to testifie either reverence or subjection yet seeing Christ must Reigne till he have put all his enemies under his feet they shall whether they will or no be brought unto it a proofe of which assertion is in the foureteenth chapter of the Romans at the tenth and eleventh verses In which regard the Apostles words Phil. 2.10 mentioning that at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow both of things in Heaven of things on Earth and of things under the Earth are not unfitlie said to bee a Prophecie which by many Christians is fulfilling in this life here on earth by blessed spirits and Saints is fulfilled in Heaven and shall fully be accomplished in the day of judgment as Master Calvin very well observeth For though it bee a prophecie wee must know that under this prophecie expressed there is a dutie implyed For Prophecies saith one are of two sorts some that are fulfilled in an instant others by degrees and by little and by little of which latter sort is this prophecie that every knee shall bow DIALOGUE Gent. What doe you thinke of them that kneele when they receive the Communion bread Min. The Papists say that they are Idolaters because they kneele and doe not beleeve the reall presente as they doe ANSWER It is no matter what the Papists say Their dislike should me thinkes moderate your spleene and make you think the better of us for their sakes To beleeve their reall presence is no part of our Creed and yet to kneele is a part of our devotion Wee kneele no more to the Bread than to the Pulpit or to our seates when we joyne with the Minister in praying unto God But our quarrell is not now with them of Rome but with you for taking durt out of their puddles and causelesly to throw it at us DIALOGUE Gent. Who was the first that brought in kneeling Min. Pope Honorius about the yeare of our Lord 1220. after that the errour of Transubstantiation was hatcht at the Councell of Lateran Gent. J have read in Gods Word that the Apostles did not kneele when Christ Himselfe delivered the bread unto them I have read also in the Booke of Martyrs that the ancient Councels in the Primitive Church did make Canons against kneeling least it should prove an occasion of Idolatry Ought not we to conforme our selves to our Saviour Christ and his Apostles and to the Christians of the Primitive Church rather than to the Devils Vicar-generall the Pope Min. Yes verily for it is grosse hypocrisie in us to make a shew as though wee were more godly and zealous than the Apostles and
thirtieth Canon of the same Booke or to the three and thirtieth Canon of the Councell of Laodicea which was celebrated in the yeare of our LORD GOD 364. as Iustellus writeth DIALOGUE Gent. What other errour doe you find to be in the Service-Booke Min. The interrupting of the Minister by the Clarke and the whole Congregation is a foule errour and such an error and confusion as doth much offend God and that therefore many are unwilling to come into the Church till the Service be all read ANSWER I doubt me you are none of those who will be so diligent as to reade the whole Service your pretended errours and dislikes which you here lay downe in this Dialogue are cause enough to make me think so And therefore they of your Parish had need to come betimes to Church if they meane to know your Text or heare any more than a peece of your Sermon except you doe as no few of your Sect trifle away a great deale of time in vaine repetitions and idle tautologies in some prayer of your own which our Saviour Himselfe likens to the practice of the Heathen and calls no better than much babling DIALOGUE Gent. How doe they interrupt the Minister Minist By rehearsing his words with a loud voyce and by taking words out of his mouth and by mingling their prayers with his ANSWER This may be answered out of Doctor Boys whose words be these I am occasioned saith he in this place justly to defend the peoples answering the Minister aloud in the Church The beginning of which interlocutory passages is ascribed by Platina to Damasus Bishop of Rome by Theodoret to Diodorus Bishop of Antioch by Walfridus Strabo to Saint Ambrose Bishop of Millane all which lived 1100 yeares before the Church was acquainted with any French fashions and yet Basil Epist 63. alleadgeth that the Churches of Aegypt Lybia Thebes Palestina Phoenicians Syrians Mesopotamians used it long before Socrates and Strabo writ that Ignatius a Scholler unto Christs owne Schollers is thought to be the first Author hereof If any man shall expect greater antiquity and authority we can fetch this order even from the Quire of Heaven I saw the Lord said Esay Esay 6.3 set on an high Throne the Seraphims stood upon it and one cried to another saying Holy holy holy Lord God of Hosts all the World is full of His glory Esay 6.3 Blessed spirits in praising God answer one another interchangeably though unhappie scornefull spirits unmannerly tearme this custome Tossing of Service an interrupting of the Minister a foule errour yea such an errour and confusion as doth much offend God DIALOGUE Minist The Minister when he prayeth is the mouth of the people speaking to God for them therefore they ought to bee silent till he hath done speaking and then to say Amen 1 Cor. 14.16 and not to interrupt him by rehearsing every word after him as in the confession of sinne when the Minister saith Almighty and most mercifull Father we have erred and strayed out of thy wayes like lost sheepe and in the Letany when he saith ô God the Father of Heaven have mercy upon us miserable sinners The Minister must stop and be silent till the Clarke and people have with a loud voyce rehearsed every word after him in which time it is impossible for the Minister to keep idle and by-thoughts from comming into his minde ANSWER If it be so with you that idle and by-thoughts will not be kept from comming into your mind pray to God to settle you better and bee not so rash as to measure other mens corne by your owne Bushell Saint Ambrose tells us that in his times the Church resounded againe with the responds of Men Women and Children like to the Sea with its beating waves or like to the rushing of many waters Thus in the Latine Church And in the Greeke Church Saint Basil is witnesse that the voyce of their prayers and Responds was like the noise of waters beating against the Rockes The patterne whereof seemes to be in Revel 14.2 besides what was before out of Esay 6.3 This is therefore all that I may yeeld you viz. that in every part of the service it is not requisite that it should be so For in many of the Prayers the people are to be silent and have no more to doe with an open and loud voyce than to say Amen But then again when occasion is offered I must say unto them as David did O praise our God yee people and make the voyce of his praise to bee heard Psalm 66.7 Or as it is in another Psalme Psal 95.1 O come let us sing unto the Lord let us make a joyfull noise to the Rocke of our salvation Or as in another Psal 107.31.32 ô that men would praise the Lord for his goodnesse and for his wonderfull works to the children of men Let them exalt him also in the Congregation of the people and praise him in the assembly of the Elders And in a word as for those times in which by the Apostles warrant they are to say Amen at the end of the Ministers prayer it was not without due care observed in the ancient times Saint Paul mentions it in the place alledged by you 1 Cor. 14.16 And as Saint Hierome writes it was the praise of the Primitive Church That their Amen was like a clap of thunder and their Halleluja as the roring of the Sea DIALOGUE Minist Also when hee prayeth for the King saying Lord save the King they interrupt him by mingling their prayer with his saying And mercifully heare us when we call upon thee The Minister being interrupted and put out in praying for the King doth pray for Ministers saying Indue thy Ministers with righteousnesse they doe then also interrupt him by mingling their prayers with his saying And make thy people joyfull ANSWER This is strange that you dare dally thus These Suffrages at which you kick with scorne are answerable to that prayer of David in the hundred and two and thirtieth Psalm where hee prayes for the Prince Priests and People orderly For the Prince Lord remember David For the Priests Let thy Priests be cloathed with righteousnesse For the People Let thy Saints sing with joyfulnesse So we in like manner Lord save thy King Indue thy Ministers with righteousnesse And make thy chosen people joyfull This also justifies our order in praying for the King first for the Clergie next and for the Laity last of all in our well composed Letany with which you quarrell next But had your quarrell been with the mattter of it as with the manner I should have said as worthy Hooker did What one petition is there found in the whole Letany whereof we shall ever be able at any time to say That no man living needeth the grace or benefit therein craved at Gods hands And a little before It now remaineth saith he a work the absolute perfection whereof upbraydeth with error or
doe set upon the Minster again and do accuse him saying Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother yea thou hast slandred thine own Mothers Sonne ANSWER If you were not a man of a corrupt minde you would never I feare me vent such stuffe as this do you not tremble are you not afraid to dally thus with the word of God They are likened by some you say to women scoulding and accusing one another And with whom I pray should the Minister scould or who is it that he should accuse if at any time he should chance to read thus to the people alone I hope you would shrink out and be none of his auditors for feare he should scould with you accuse you for consenting with a thief note you for a partaker with adulterers a speaker against thy brother or tell thee that thou hast slandred thine own Mothers sonne away therefore with such impious cavils and dally not thus with the word of God These scoffes are fitter for Pagans then for Christians especially if they consider how dangerous a thing it is to sport themselves with holy things Be not angry Man for I do but reprove thee and set before thee the things that thou hast done I retort with as much patience as I can no more then what your selfe hath cast abroad Others make points and you take in hand to tag them But alasse we have more much like this a little after which as I meet it shall be answered DIALOGUE Gent. I remember that in the Churching of women the Minister is called Priest tell me I pray you is that a fit name for a Minister and Preacher of the Gospel Min. No verily For we read in Gods word of no more orders of Priests but of two the order of Aaron and the order of Melchisedech Of the order of Aaron were the Leviticall Priests whose office was to offer sacrifices which together with the Sacrifices was abolished in Christ his death Of the order of Melchisedech was Christ only and shall remaine Priest for ever A third order of Priests is to be found no where but in the Masse-book and in our Service-book The name Priest belongeth to every Christian man and woman as well as to the Minister according as it is written Revel 1.6 That Christ hath made us Kings and Priests unto God The meaning is that Christ hath made all the Elect men and women Priests to offer the sacrifices of prayse and of thankes unto God ANSWER The Minister is called Priest and why not I hope you know for you have noted it that all true Christians are called Priests and so Saint Peter as well as Saint John declareth it 1 Pet. 2.5 Revel 5.10 and therefore the Minister in particular may much more be called by that name although he offer none of those Sacrifices which were abolished by Christ nor intend the upholding of the Popish Masse with the blasphemous figments which are there else we condemn the Primitive Church of God in which this name which you here would quarrell with was of frequent use as you cannot but know if you know any thing of the ancient times The Prophet Esay doth * Chapt. 61.6 in one place say the same of Christians in generall which even Saint Peter and Saint John have written and in * Chapt. 66.21 another place declareth that God will choose some from among them to be Priests and Levites which though it be but an allusion doth denote a Priest-hood still and this to confist of an imparity as well as of old among the Jewes Besides were it so that the Minister might not be called Priest no more then any other Christian because the Scripture saith of every Christian man and woman Yee are an holy Priest-hood are made Kings and Priests unto God Then would it sollow first that none in particular should be a King And secondly that neither might any among the Jews have been a publike Priest or called by that name because the same which was said to Christians was also said to them when out of the Mount God sent them his message by his servant Moses Yee have seen saith the Lord what I did unto the Aegyptians and how I bare you on Eagles wings and brought you unto my selfe Now therefore if yee will obey my voice indeed and keep my Covenant then yee shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people for all the earth is mine And yee shall be unto me a kingdome of Priests and an holy Nation Exod. 19.4,5,6 It is also warranted by that of Saint Paul in Hebr. 7.12 where if you mark it you shall finde that Priesthood is not taken away but translated or changed onely and so also Irenaeus saith lib. 4. c. 34. And as for the testimonies out of the other Fathers they are so common as I need not mention them only let me say that you may finde the name both of Priest and Priest-hood in the writings of Ignatius that Martyr already mentioned who as you know was scholler to Saint John that wrote the Revelation This strife of words you should therefore carefully avoid it doth but disquiet unstable soules Grant then that name without quarrelling to him which the Scripture not onely gives to every true member of the Church but foretold it in some sort of even the Evangelicall Ministers in more particular where though the Prophet mentions Levites also who were properly so called in regard of their tribe yet as is probable enough he means not that therefore the name of Priest should not be used no more then that of Levite for except those Priests to which he alludeth had had their name only in respect of such Sacrifices as then were offered and to be ended at the death of Christ and not in regard also of other duties which are common to us and them which neither are nor may be abolished I see no reason to think otherwise To teach and blesse the people were the services of the Priests both before the Law and under the Law as well as now Melchisedech was a Priest before the Law and blessed Abraham to whom also Abraham paid his Tythes Gen. 14.19,20 Nor was it but said to Aaron and his sonnes under the Law That they should teach the sonnes of Israel all the Statutes which the Lord hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses Levit. 10.11 and in Malachy it stands recorded The priests lips should keep knowledge and they should seek the Law at his mouth for he is the Messenger of the Lord of hosts Malach. 2.7 and in Ezekiel They shall teach my people the difference between the holy and prophane ch 44.23 and in 6 Num. the 6 last verses The Lord spake unto Moses saying speak unto Aaron and to his sonnes saying On this wise yee shall blesse the children of Israel saying unto them The Lord blesse thee and keep thee The Lord make his face shine upon thee and be gratious unto the The Lord lift
up his countenance upon thee and give thee peace And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel and I will blesse them All which is still done by the Ministers of the Gospell they blesse they teach they instruct they rebuke they reprove they exhort they consecrate the Bread and Wine to holy uses they offer up the Prayers of the people nay more they do as it were offer Christ in a Mystery and sacrifice him objectively by way of commemoration In which we differ farre from the Church of Rome for the Romish Church professeth the Body and Blood of Christ to be the proper subject we nay but the proper object of our Celebration We take then a Priest and Presbiter now to be all one and list not to quarrell any longer about the word For should we descend to Grammer we are told as much as comes fully home namely that the word Priest hath his right place in him whose meer function and charge is the service of God Whereunto let me only adde that which I find in Bishop Jewell We know saith he that the Priest or Minister of the Church of God is divided from the rest of his brethren as was the tribe of Levi from the children of Israel and hath a speciall office over the people Neither may any man force himself into that office without lawfull calling But as touching the inward Priest-hood and the exercise of the soule we say even as Saint Peter and Saint John and Tertullian have said in this sence every faithfull Christian man is a Priest and offereth to God Spirituall Sacrifices In this only sence I say and none otherwise Thus he granting that there is a Priest-hood internall and a Priest-hood externall For saith he there is not one of us that ever taught otherwise See this in his Defence of the Apology for the Church of England Part 2. pag. 130. DIALOGUE Gent. What do you think of the Priest and Clark when they do Church a woman Min. I will not tell you what I think but I will tell you what some doe say Gent. What do they say Min. They say that the Priest is like a witch Gent. Why doe they say that the Priest is like to a witch Min. Because he doth as a witch doth when she saith the Lords Prayer Gent. What doth a witch when she saith the Lords Prayer Min. She leaves out these words but deliver us from evill and so doth the Priest when he doth Church a woman Gent. Why will not a witch say these words Min. Because the Devill will not let her till she hath bewitched so many as he would have her For by the evill that is prayed against in that petition is meant the Devill and the sinne whereunto he tempteth therefore the Devill will not have her to say these words because when she saith them she prayeth that God will deliver her from him and the witchery whereunto he tempteth her ANSWER This is a cavill scarce worth the answering for it is most certain that the evill which you speak of is prayed against The most therefore which you could urge fairely is no more but this viz. That the order in saying that Prayer had been better without an answer interposed then by the interposing of one in which I think you should have met with few or none to quarrell you But to speak so basely and in such unbeseeming manner as you have done serves as a figne to shew with what a malignant spirit you wrote these things who do rather play the witch your selfe by speaking perverse words to draw away disciples after you then justly accuse the Priest in these your vain janglings But it is as Saint Paul gave notice a great while since when he called the Elders of Ephesus together as we read in the twentieth chapter of the Acts of the Apostles at the 30 verse DIALOGUE Min. The Priest doth also skip over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer for thine is the kingdome power and glory and therein also they say that he is like to a witch when she doth say the Creed for when she saith the second Article And in Jesus Christ his onely sonne she skips over these words Our Lord and so doth the Priest slip over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer Gent. Saint Luke leaves it out and therefore the Priest may leave them out Luk. 11.4 Min. It followeth not that therefore the Minister may leave them out for Saint Luke did not write any thing of himselfe but what the holy Ghost would have him to write Gent. Why would not the holy Ghost have him to write them Min. Because it was sufficient that Saint Mathew had writ them Math. 6.13 ANSWER Here you shew us still more of your skill in witchery and tell us of the Priests skipping over the conclusion of the Lords Prayer And indeed if there were not some President for it in Scripture it might not be But there is president for it in Luke 11.4 although you be pleased to passe it over with a non sequitur And yet for all that it may follow well enough For whereas it seemed good to the holy Ghost in one Evangelist to adde the Doxologie and in another to omit it the Church is blamelesse and may indifferently follow either the one or the other seeing both of them wrote by inspiration For who knows except you who know any thing whether it were the purpose of the holy Ghost to have Saint Luke omit it because Saint Matthew had recorded it and not rather to shew that it was a compleat Prayer at the end of the petitions although the reason of the petitions be not mentioned where the Doxology is omitted It is well then to repeat those words of the conclusion and not ill although they be not alwaies mentioned for our Church in so doing hath the pattern not only of all the Latine and some of the Greek Fathers but even of Saint Luke himself Quando dicimus libera nos à malo nihil remanet quod ultra adhuc debeat postulari as saith Saint Cyprian Cypr. de Orat. Dominic that is When we say Deliver from evill there remains nothing more to be prayed for DIALOGUE Gent. Some doe think because Saint Mark and Saint John doe make no mention of the Lords Prayer that therefore the Minister may omit the reading of it and that because the Evangelists and the Apostles did not use to say it as a Prayer therefore none neither Minister nor people ought to use it as a Prayer Min. The truth is that our Saviour Christ did make it for all Christians to use as a prayer and also for a pattern to pray by Gent. Where doe you finde that our Saviour Christ would have it used as a Prayer Min. In the 11 chapter of the Gospell written by Saint Luke and the second verse where it is written that our Saviour said When you pray say Our Father which c. Gent. Where doe
Scriptures they give us notice of some who in the latter daies should perish in the gainsaying of Corah as well as of some who should be led with the errour of Balaam for reward See S. Judes Epist vers 11. Look well about you and take heed how you strike an Angel else may chance to stand against you whilest you ride on the beast and be as loath to loose the rewards of your good Masters and Dames as was Balaam to loose the rewards of the King of Moab For the Pope may be Antichrist though Bishops be upheld they were never limbs of that man of Sinne as Bishops but as Popish whilest they swore subjection unto him whilest they defended him whilest they worshipped him above all that is called God and extorted this homage from others But shall they therefore which defie him resist trample upon him spend their lives and labours in opposing of him be necessarily still in the same condition because they are Bishops a foolish argument and he were a senceles man that should subscribe it But shall I tell you there were many Kings and Princes that gave their strength and power to the Beast but are now revolted from him are they not therefore Kings and Princes still Yes sure their calling is not lost they are Kings and Princes still although not Antichristian Kings and Princes England was once termed the Popes Asse but hath long since shaked off that yoak and abolished the Popes tyranny is it not therefore England still Or to speak of what was late The Princes Peers and Magistrates of England in Queen Maries daies were shoulders and armes of Antichrist their calling is still the same and must still be retained notwithstanding then they went the wrong way in it The like is to be said of Bishops in regard of their order which in it selfe is as firm strong and sound as ever notwithstanding what you or any man else may urge to the contrary If you were not a man of faction but would deale fairly in this busines you should not plead for parity or goe about to destroy the government of Gods Church by Bishops but labour to retain the Primitive form which consistteth not in the abolishing of Bishops and striving to make all Pastours equall but in the restoring of Presbyteries by joyning with the Bishops deserving honest and able * See for this Mr. Thorndikes book of the primitive Government of Churches Presbyters not Lay-elders but learned Ministers In a word there is one thing more which before I goe further must be rememhred For you tell us that in the latter end of Queene Elizabeths raigne when she began to be sickly and not like to live long then Doctour Bancroft Lord Bishop of London knowing that King James was to succeed her and fearing that his Majesty would reforme things amisse in the publike worship and service of God and in the Government of the Church did License a Booke written by a Jesuite that he kept in his house wherein it was written that it was in the Popes power as a gift appropriate to Saint Peters chaire to depose the Kings of England and to give authority to the People to elect choose and set up another Whereto I answer that in this you doe but cast durt in the face of the dead For that which you here mention is but what was objected in the Conference at Hampton Court by Doctour Reynolds and openly proved then in presence of his Majesty which you speak of to be but a false aspersion by which the Bishop was injured and standered Wherefore you doe ill to revive it now for the incensing of the people to the more malice who are already too eager to inveigh against Bishops For I verily thinke that never since the times of Christ and his Apostles were Bishops in such hatred nor had in such contempt as now I wonder that they goe not about likewise to cry down a standing Ministrie for personall offenders may as well countenance the abolishing of the one as of the other And indeed it is in a manner come even to that too amongst some furious and fanaticke spitits But the God of Heaven put a right end to these busie stirrs lest all at the last be brought to ruine Let the fiercenesse of those Opposites who cry Downe with them downe with them even to the ground turn to thy praise ô blessed Lord yea the fiercenesse of them who are thus furious doe thou restrain and bring honour to thy name out of this dishonour and good to thy Church out of this evill It is thine owne cause ô God arise therefore and defend it in spight of all that shall oppose it And thus I am come almost to the end of your dowty Dialogue a little more will bring me to it DIALOGUE Gent. There was a little Booke written of late and dedicated to the Mouse of Parliament that had most of these things in it that you have spoken of concerning the Service-booke and the Bishops Min. There was so but the Authour thereof is much grieved every time that he doth thinke upon it because it was dispersed without his consent and printed false by putting in and leaving out of words so as it was not fit to be presented to the House of Parliament ANSWER Great pitty sure to see so worthy a worke defaced especially being intended for the view of the high Court of Parliament But grieve not at it though you sometimes chance to thinke upon it for you make amends for all in this most learned and through-paced Dialogue which is instar omnium and a great deale fitter for the Parliament then that little Booke you speake of Aquila non capit Muscas Parliaments meddle with great matters Let little Bookes therefore goe and thinke your selfe better with this great volume of almost twenty leaves in Quarto which the Parliament when it hath nothing else to doe will read and relish as well as it can This is enough to comfort you you may by no meanes desire more except you had written to better purpose DIALOGUE Gent. It made mention of Judgements c. ANSWER Here you come in with a diâ—course out of your little Booke of some fearefull Judgements shewed on Churches by Thunder and Lightning in Service time and you mention chiefly two the one on the Parish Church of Whitcomb in Devonshire upon the 21 day of October 1638. the other on the Parish Church of Anthony in Cornwell upon Whitsunday 1640. when the people were kneeling at the Communion which fell upon those places to shew that God is not pleased but much offended with the publike Worship and Service which is prescribed unto his holy Majesty in our Service-booke Thus saith your Dialogue pag. 32. 35. and 37. But what saith the Apostle O how unsearchable are Gods Judgements and his wayes past finding out And verily we thank God our Service booke is clearely proved to be of another nature then to offend the diyine