Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	church_n	father_n	invocation_n	1,253	5	11.1429	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A77435	A briefe examination; of a certaine pamphlet lately printed in Scotland, and intituled: Ladensium autocatacrisis, &c.		1644 (1644)	Wing B4591; Thomason E47_7; ESTC R21801	34,566	57

Grace there we should worship any thing but God himselfe It is a rare confidence you have in your Reader that you dare set before his eyes your owne assertion and confutation of it both at once 40. Now that he saith Great reverence is due to the Body and so to the Throne where this Body is usually present Why should it repent him of so saying r Ad 2. Epist Cor. Hom. 20 S. Chrysostome saith the same and that even Terminis terminantibus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thou reverencest this Altar because thereon is placed the Body of Christ And 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Why we should challenge S. Chrysostome of Idolatry or why that should be Idolatry in our Archbishop which was none in S. Chrysostome cannot I imagine But this you call Sheltring ones selfe under the name of a Father an ſ P. 49. usuall thing you say with us here in England and we are faine to doe it to keepe off our heads the indignation of the people A speech so unworthy that I thinke no Scholler nor good Christian but will disdaine to read Sir excuse our Divines in this I pray They have to doe with Adversaries in the Church of Rome that are men of learning and would make the world believe they have carried all the suffrage of Antiquity from them they cite the Fathers to discover their falshood And they have to doe with novelling Schismaticks who because men though of the best merit are commonly undervalued in their owne times must be encountred with names and Authorities above exception But chiefly they doe it because Errour being surreptitious and younger then Truth we are bid by insisting upon the old Paths to finde out the good Way Ier. 6.16 and to walke in that And for this did the Fathers t 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Basil de Spir. Sanct. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chrys ad Mat. Hom. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Socrat Lib. 3. cite their Fore-fathers ever by the Tracke of intermediate Times ascending to the Spring head of Truth But you passe by all ancient Authours and to make good your worke betake your selves to other wayes very farre different from scholasticke arguments thinking it sufficient you incurre not the indignation of the People however abused and misled by you 41. But touching the point in hand we are very much unsatisfied since all Primitive Christianity Easterne and Westerne is so full for reverencing holy places and holy things whence it should come that to give them any regard now should be one of Rome's grossest Idolatries The Altar had so much honour as by it selfe to denominate our whole Function and Ministerie sometimes as Altari x Cypr. Ep. 4.9 passim deservire ab Altari avocare ad Altaris Ministerium vel locum Sacerdotalem indignum obrepere to make a Schisme in the Church was erigere Altare contra Altare Catholike Christians did honour it y Quid enim est tam sacrilegum quàm Altaria Dei in quibus aliquando vos obtulistis frangere radere removere in quibus vota populi membra Christi portata sunt Optat. lib. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Conc. sub Agap Men. Act. quint. Hereticks and Schismaticks either break it or as if it contracted some pollution from former use scrape it Infidels and Apostates in contempt of Christian Religion prophane it z Theodoret. l. 4 c. 22. Nazianz. 〈…〉 dancing or dicing or otherwise abusing it One a Impudenter contra sacrum Altare minxit Hist trip l. 6. c. 32. of Iulians Renegadoes did that to it by way of disgrace that I cannot civilly tell you as if to dishonour a Christian Altar were to dishonour Christ. And since all this is so be you as petulant and as bold as you please I should rather desire to be with them that in contemplation of those holy mysteries there dispensed to us approach thither 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Gregory Nyssen speaks with reverence and godly feare In the meane time your falshood is intolerable that tell your Reader my Lord of Canterbury gives to the Altar no lesse then divine Adoration 42. This being past you have little else to object to him insomuch that after the intervall of many pages you are faine to c P. 85 86. rub up the same againe In your next point touching the Adoration of the Communion Elements you are quite to seeke of any Allegation at all not one Canterburian can be brought to depone for it except that you are angry at bowing and call it our new adoration that is our new Idolatry our old Idolatry kneeling at the Communion you are content to passe over you say but the new will not downe with you How new or old it is in the Church of God Much hath beene said of late time But whether you be a competent Iudge of Idolatry the while or whether our writings in England ought to be levelled by the Rubrick of your Presbyterian Discipline let any sonne of this Church consider 43. Touching Images Reliques and Invocation of Saints I finde of my Lord of Canterbury Nè gry quidem Was it because that in all his Writings he toucheth no where upon those Points No. But where you cannot speake ill of him you will be sure not to speak well How he writes of Images I shewed before Pray you read what he saith concerning Invocation of Saints Sect. 33. Num. 13. Though some of the ancient Fathers have some Rhetoricall Flourishes about it for the stirring up of devotion as they thought yet the Church admitted not then of the invocation of them but onely of the Commemoration of the Martyrs as appeares clearely in S. Augustine And when the Church prayed to God for any thing she desired to be heard for the mercies and merits of Christ not for the merits of any Saints whatsoever c. If God must heare our prayers for the merits of the Saints how much fall they short of sharers in the Mediation of Redemption You may think of this For such Prayers as these the Church of Rome makes at this day and they stand not without great scandall to Christ and Christianity used and authorized to be used in the Missall For instance upon the Feast of S. Nicholas you pray That God by the Merits and Prayers of S. Nicholas would deliver you from the fire of Hell And upon the Octaves of S. Peter and S. Paul you desire God that you may obtain the glory of eternity by their Merits And on the Feast of S. Bonaventure you pray that God would absolve you from all your sinnes by the interceding Merits of Bonaventure How say you if the Canterburians hold to this I hope they are not gone from the Protestant Way if otherwise why then are they Canterburians 44. In your next long Chapter there is but one dribbler against my Lord of Canterbury and that is in the