in his Sermon at Paul's Cross to all his Learned Adversaries the Papists to bring against the Protestant Doctrine any one sufficient Sentence out of any One Catholic Doctor or Father for the Space of Six hundred Years after Christ and he is content to yield Whitaker renews the same Challenge Resp ad rat Camp. p. 90. provoking the Papists to the first Six hundred Years and if they can produce any one Father or Council against the Protestant Articles he grants the Victory It is the Offer of us all says he the same do we all promise and we will perform it So that as far as I see I have not exceeded the Protestant Bounds Repres Neither have I in our Enquiry pass'd these Limits Our Search has been restrain'd within the Compass of the First Six hundred Years and the whole System of Popery I have laid before you has been the Belief and Practice of the Christians of those Times And this will oblige you to consider what Grounds you have to trust to for the Support of the Pretended Reformation whilst you see some eminent Protestants Appealing to the Primitive Church of the First Six hundred Years and Challenging the Papists to produce any One Doctor in favour of Popery within that Compass and yet other Protestants at the same time are charging the most Learned and Eminent Fathers of those Ages as Abbettors of Popery and reprove them for being infected with Popish Doctrines Misrepres This you have been often Saying but I must see it Prov'd Repres Do you keep then in your Mind the Challenge of Bishop Jewel above mention'd wherein he provokes the Papists to shew One Father holding against the Protestant Doctrine in the First Six hundred years and bidding them Defiance upon this Trial the like of Whitaker and others and I le let you see the Concessions of some other Protestants upon the same Subject But have Patience then 1. For the allowing Vows of Perpetual Chastity and affirming them to be Obligatory S. Basil Ambrose Chrysostome Epiphanius and S. Austin are reprov'd by Chemnitius Exam. p. 3. p. 41 42. And the General Council of Chalcedon is confess'd to have forbidden Marriage to Monks and Nuns by Just Molit de Eccl. Milit. p. 80. 2. As touching the Sacrament Chrysostom is thought to confirm Transubstantiation Centur. 5. col 517. Eusebius Emissenus did speak unprofitably of Transubstantiation Cent. 4. col 985. In Cyprian are many Sayings which seem to affirm Transubstantiation Ursin Commen p. 211. 3. As concerning Sacrifice it is affirm'd by Learned Protestants that the Ancient Fathers viz. Athanasius Ambrose Austin c. err'd herein So Calvin and Dr. Field who say of them that they made a Sacrifice of the Lords Supper The Centurists likewise affirm of Cyprian that his Judgment in this Point is Superstitious Cent. 3. col 83. That the Writings of Irenaeus and Ignatius are herein incommodious and dangerous Cent. 2. c. 4. col 55. And that presently after the Apostles Times the Supper of our Lord was turn'd into a Sacrifice sebas Franc. in Ep. de Abrog 4. Concerning Prayer for the Dead It was general in the Church lorg before the Days of Austin as appears in Cyprian and Tertullian So Mr. G. Gifford in his Demonst p. 38. Mr. Fulk likewise acknowledges that Tertullian Cyprian Austin Jerome and a great many more do witness that Sacrifice for the Dead is the Tradition of the Apostles Consut of Purg. p. 362. That Prayer and Alms were made for the Dead almost from the very beginning of the Church Bucer in Enar. 4. Evang. in Mat. c. 12. 5. Concerning Merit of Works Dr. Humfrey says It may not be deny'd but that Ireuaeus Clement and others who are call'd Apostolical Men have in their Writings the Opinions of Free-will and Merit of Works Jesuitism par 2. p. 530. Origen and Chrysostome are affirm'd by the Centuriators to have handled impurely the Doctrine of Justification and that they attribute Merit to Works Cent. 3. col 265. and Cent. 5. col 1178. And not only Cyprian but almost all the Holy Fathers of that Time were in that Error as thinking so to pay the Pain due to Sin and to satisfie Gods Justice Whitak in Resp ad Rat. Camp. Rat. 5. 6. Concerning Invocation of Saints The Lord Archbishop of Cant. Discoursing of Doctrines taught in any Age since the Apostles Times affirms without any Exception of Age or Father That almost all the Bishops and Writers of the Grâ—ek Church and Latin also for the most part were spotted with Doctrines of Free-will Merit Invocation of Saints c. Whitgift Def. ag Rep. of Cartw. p. 473. Mr. Fulk likewise says I confess that Ambrose Austin and Jerome held Invocation of Saints to be lawful Rejoyn to Brist p. 5. S Cyprian is charg'd by the Cent. to maintain That Martyrs and Saints departed pray for the Living Cent. 3. col 84. Origen likewise with Prayer for himself to Holy Job and Invocation of Angels Cent. 3 col 83. and col 75. The same Centurists affirm moreover That there are manifest Steps of Invocation of Saints in the Doctors of that Ancient Age. Cent. 3. c. 4. col 83. 7. Concerning Confession and Absolution The Centurists confess That even in those Times of Cyprian and Tertullian was us'd Private Confession and that the same was then commanded and thought necessary Cent. 3 c. 6. col 127. That also Penance or Satisfaction was enjoyn'd according to the Offence Ib. And likewise that the Priest when the Confession was made and Penance enjoyn'd did afterwards Absolve the Penitent with the Ceremony of Impâ—sing his Hand Cent. ib. 8. Concerning the Primacy of Peter above the other Apostles the Ancient Fathers of the Church viz. Jerome Hilary Nazianzen Tertullian Cyprian Origen are reprehended by the Protestant Centurists viz. for affirming the Church to be built upon Peter Cent. 4. col 1215 555 558 c. The same Centurists reprove S. Cyprian for teaching say they without any foundation of Scripture that the Roman Church ought to be acknowledg'd of all other for the Mâ—ther and Root of the Catholic Church Cent. 3. col 84. In like manner Irenaeus who as Hamelmannus says might yet remember the Apostles own lively Preaching is condemn'd by the Centurists for his affirming That all the Churches ought to accord to the Roman Church in regard of a more powerful Principality for which words they charge him with a corrupt Saying concerning the Primacy of the Roman Church Cent. 2. Alph. Tab. word Irenaeus And this Authority of the B. of Rome D. Philip Nicolai referreth for its beginning to the Infirmity of the Apostles and of the first succeeding Bishops of Rome in Comment de Reg. Christ p. 221. With whom concurs Mr. Middleton in his Papist Mast p. 193. No marvail therefore says he tho' perusing Councils Fathers and Stories from the Apostles forward we find the Print of the Popes Feet For these and all other Points of Catholic Doctrine the
currant Testimonies of the Ancient Fathers are so certain and evident that many Learned Protestants upon this Consideration refuse to stand the Test of their Authorities thinking it far more advantageous to their Cause to give them a general Disclaim Hence Mr. Whitaker affirms the Popish Religion to be patcht up out of the Fathers Errors Cont. Dur l. 6. p. 423. And Dr. Humfrey most severely reprehends Mr. Jewel for his so bold Appeal to the Primitive Fathers affirming that herein Mr. Jewel gave the Papists too large a scope was injurious to himself and after a manner spoil'd himself and the Church Misrepres So then I see you intend to claim the Fathers not only of Constantine 's Time and the Following Ages as Abettors of Popery but likewise Those who in the First Centuries immediately succeeded the Apostles And what Room then do you leave for Protestancy Repres 'T is not only I that claim Them but even the Protestants themselves you see of the precedent Age such who were not asham'd to speak the Truth make a surrender of them laying aside all Pretensions either to Them or their Doctrine And when they have disown'd all the Fathers one by one from Clement Ignatius Irenaeus who liv'd in the Apostles Days and succeeded them in their Function to S. Jerome Austin Leo Gregory the last of which surviv'd the Fifth Century when they have declar'd that Antichrist began his Reign and obscur'd the Light of the Gospel even from the Time of the Apostles I wonder what Room as you say there 's left for Protestancy It savours something of a Mystery methinks call'd Nonsense to say the Protestant Religion is the same Pure Religion as was Anciently and Generally Profess'd amongst the Fathers and Christians of the Primitive Church and then to condemn the same Fathers and Christians of the Primitive Church for being infected with Popery and giving way to Antichrist Wherefore to avoid these Inconveniences if you 'l take my Advice Misrepresenter I believe you had better pretend no longer Right to the Primitive Fathers but as you have condemn'd the Eight hundred Years next before the Reformation of Damnable Errors and Popish Superstitions to take one step further back and e'en take in the other Six hundred Years too and so condemn them all in the lump from Christ's Time to Luther for being Papists and Popishly affected Never Mince the matter They were all Men you know and subject to Error and when you are once in 't is as easily condemning your Fore-fathers for Fourteen Ages as for Eight Your First Reforming-Apostles were something of this mind and thought it no more difficulty to Censure and Condemn the Primitive Fathers than Those they found in the time of K. Henry 8. but were for Reforming all with the same Hand Hearken a little to your courageous Luther In the Writings says he of Jerome there is not a word of True Faith in Christ and Sound Religion Tertullian is very Superstitious I have held Origen long since Accursed of Chrysostome I make no account Basil is of no worth he is wholly a Monk I value him not of a Hair Cyprian is a Weak Divine The Apology of Philip Melancthon far excels all the Dostors of the Church and exceeds even Austin himself Coll. Mens c. de Patr. Eccles And in another place The Fathers says he of so many Ages have been plainly Blind and most Ignorant in the Scriptures They err'd all their Life-time and unless they were mended before their Deaths they were neither Saints nor pertaining to God's Church To. 2. l. de Serv. Arbit Peter Martyr is of the same mind and therefore says plainly That as long as we stand to Councils and Fathers we shall always remain infected with the same Errors viz. of Popery And certainly Misrepresenter these Your First Setters up for Reformation were in the Right on 't for nothing can possibly so strengthen Protestancy and justifie the Separation as this Levelling Divinity For your Going by halves and pretending to be of the Religion of the First Ages of the Church fills People with Doubts and Scruples whilst looking back upon the Professors of those Times instead of Protestancy they find so much Popery amongst them Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel M DC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XVI A New Way of making all the Popish Sayings of the Primitive Fathers to be Good Protestancy The Art of Interpreting do's Feats it makes way for Atheism and Infidelity Represent HOW stands your Head to day Misrepresenter have you Consider'd the Proposal I made you at our last Meeting Are you for disclaiming all Title to the Primitive Church and Huffing those Ancient Fathers as Luther Peter Martyr and others did who designing a Through-Reformation were alike for calling those Great Doctors to an account of the First Ages as they did those they found in the Time of King Henry 8 Or are you for Reforming upon These First Reformers and taking in those Primitive Fathers of the Church for Protestants which They cast off and Condemn'd for Papists Misrepres I have Consider'd this Matter very seriously and taken the Advice of Friends upon the Point And therefore to be short with you I value no more the Saying of Luther than he did Those Ancient Fathers whom he condemn'd as Weak Divines Superstitious and Valu'd not of a Hair. He was so near the Times of Darkness that he could not well look back and make Judgment of any thing behind him Repres Nay I commend you in this 't is only just to serve him in his kind 'T was Tertullian's Saying Curâ—â—nm idem licet Marcionitis quod Marcioni If Marcion has rebell'd against the Church why should his Followers think much to rebel against him And since Luther cast off all Authority and valu'd not the Writings and Doctrine of the most Eminent Fathers of the Primitive Church why shou'd any one think much of undervaluing him by his own Example If Luther could so easily throw by S. Cyprian for a Weak Divine and S. Basil for being wholly a Monk is not this Precedent enough for any Follower of Luther to cast him off for an Apostate Friar and an Ambitious Divine Well but if you Reform upon Luther in this Point and don 't think fit with him to lay aside all the Writings of the Ancient Fathers as Erroneous and Superstitious what do you do with all those troublesome Passages in their Works wherein They are such Positive Asserters of Popish Doctrines that 't is impossible for any Man to take the Authors for any thing but Papists which do's not well suit with your Claim to them as Protestants Misrepres Pish I value no more these Difficulties than Luther did the Fathers that is not of a Hair. If the First Reformers bad their Eyes but half open what 's that to us who have the Noon-light of the Gospel shining upon us
THE Catholic Representer OR THE PAPIST Misrepresented AND REPRESENTED Second Part. Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty For his Houshold and Chappel 1687. THE CONTENTS CHAP. I. OF the Veneration shewn to Images of Christ the Virgin Mary c. Whether the Papists Pray to Images in Relation to a Passage of a Book Entituled A Catechism truly Representing the Doctrines and Practices of the Church of Rome and its Vindication CHAP. II. Whether Papists Pray directly to the Cross as is positively Asserted by a Protestant with an Essay of a Heathen-Catechism after the Copy of the Truly-representing Protestant-Catechism in which this Calumny is publish'd CHAP. III. Whether the Doctrine of Transubstantiation be contrary to the Writings of the Primitive Fathers or agreeable to them The Papist believes his Senses in this Mystery as much as the Protetant being Notes upon a late Pamphlet Entituled The Papists Doctrine of Transubstantiation not agreeable to the Primitive Fathers CHAP. IV. The Form of the Catholic Church Establish'd by Christ No hopes of Salvation out of it The Practice of the Apostles and Primitive Church in this Point Good at this day The Protestants as uncharitably Damn the Papists as These are said to do the Protestants In reference to the Preface of Wholsom Advices from the B. V. c. CHAP. V. The Papist as to the Articles of his Belief follows the Method prescrib'd by Christ practis'd by the Apostles and the Primimitive Church The Method is of Divine Institution and more according to Reason than what Others follow The Word Worship is Equivocal and acknowledg'd so by St. Austin CHAP. VI. The Papist do's not Believe but upon most Convincing Reasons Mysteries of Faith above Reason not contrary to it The Papist is not depriv'd of the Word of God nor kept from the Knowledge of the Gospel He do's not Pray to the Cross more than Protetestants Pray to their Bibles or the Sacrament Three Protestant Queries Answer'd CHAP. VII The Vulgar among the Papists not depriv'd of the Word of God. They are better Instructed in the true Sense of it than those of other Perswasions who Teach themselves The Vnlearned and Vnstable wrest it to their own Destruction CHAP. VIII The Vulgar not permitted to read the Bible among the Papists for fear they should discover the Errors of their Religion an Absurd Calumny The Restraint is That there may not be as many different Words of God as there are Heads amongst them and may have something better Ground than their own Imagination to direct their Faith. A Word to a Lay-Friend CHAP. IX The Scriptures not always the Same to the same Person No Possibility of meeting in One Faith whilst Private Reason sets up for Interpreter of the Word of God. The Sham-Story of the Frogs and Crabs The Truth of the Anniversary Solemnity CHAP. X. Private Interpretation of Scriptures the Occasion of Divisions Some Protestant Divines call in the Assistance of Authority and Guides but all ends in the Private Spirit The Question started Where was the Protestant Religion as it is now Reform'd before Luther The Answers of some Protestant Divines CHAP. XI An Enquiry into the Religion of the Primitive Times and particularly That of Constantine the First Christian Emperor For the Satisfaction of those who desire to know whether the Protestant Religion was generally Profess'd amongst the Christians of those Purer Times CHAP. XII Protestant Historians shew us Popery in the Primitive Church under Constantine but no Protestancy The Christians of that Age never Protested against the Popish Doctrines professedly Taught and Practis'd in those Times Therefore they were no Protestants An Enquiry into the Religion of the Ages succeeding Constantine CHAP. XIII The Professors of Popish Doctrines in the Primitive Times no Protestants but Papists Popish Tenets not only the Opinions of Private Doctors but the Doctrine of the Primitive Church The Four First General Councils no Protestants CHAP. XIV No Protestant Harangue in the First Four General Councils to fill the Fathers Heads with Fears and Jealousies No Canons made by the said Fathers to prevent the Growth of Popery at that Time professedly Taught and Practis'd is an Argument that the Fathers of those Councils were no Protestants CHAP. XV. The Appeal of Protestants to the Primitive Fathers shewn Injurious to Protestancy from the Concessâ—ons of Protestant Writers Luther the Apostle of the Reformatiâ—â— disclaims the Doctrine of the Fathers as not being for his purpose of Reforming CHAP. XVI A New Way of making all the Popish Sayings of the Primitive Fathers to be Good Protestancy The Art of Interpreting do's Feats it makes way for Atheism and Infidelity THE PAPIST Misrepresented AND Represented SECOND PART CHAP. I. Of the Veneration shewn to Images of Christ the Virgin Mary c. Whether the Papists pray to Images in Relation to a Passage of a Book Entituled A Catechism truly Representing the Doctrines and Practices of the Church of Rome and its Vindication THe Papist Misrepresented worships the Images of Christ and his Saints he kisses them uncovers his Head falls down before them offers Incense and Prays to them and uses all such Postures of Worship as he would do to the Person or Persons thereby represented if they were present And whosoever thinks otherwise amongst them is accursed Catech. truly repres the Doctr. of the Ch. of Rome p. 42. THe Papist Represented is taught That the Images of Christ of the Virgin Mary and other Saints ought to be kept and especially in Churches and due Honour and Veneration given them not for that any Divinity or Vertue is believed to be in them or that any thing is to be asked of them or any confidence to be placed in them as was anciently done by the Heathens who put their trust in Idols but because the Honour which is exhibited to the Images is referr'd to the Prototype or Thing represented by them So that by the Images which he kisses and before which he kneels or puts off his hat he adores Christ and reverences his Saints whom the said Images represent This is what He is taught and are the Words of the Council of Trent Sess 25. And tho some endeavour to cast an Infamy upon this Doctrine and Practice by letting loose the School-debates amongst the multitude and raising Mists and Confusion from the disagreeâ—ng Opinions of Divines Yet in honest Practice he 's conscious to himself of doing no more than what he sees done every Day by such who commendably follow the regular Motions of Humane Nature the Dictates of unbiass'd Reason First therefore as Men judge it nothing but Decent and Reasonable to set forth and adorn their Houses with the Pictures of such Persons as belong to their Family of their old Friends Benefactors Governours such as they esteem and whose Memory they desire to preserve and honour So he cannot but think it as agreeable to Reason that the House of God be
set forth with the Memories of such Eminent Persons who by a singular Favour of Heaven have been made chosen Vessels for the Propagation of the Religion there profess'd or have sealed the Truth of the Doctrine there delivered with the Effusion of their dearest Bloud This God himself did in a manner direct and approve when filling Bezaleel and Aholiâ—b Exod. 35. 31. with the Spirit of God in Wisdom in Vnderstanding and in Knowledge He Inspir'd them to make Two Cherubims of Gold Exod. 37. 7. on the side of the Mercy Seat openly declaring by this Fact the best Ornaments of his Seat and House here on Earth to be the Images Pictures and Representations of those Divine Spirits who are continually finging Praises to him before his Throne in Heaven This he was pleas'd to suggest to the Jews tho so prone to Idolatry and why should Christians be so Squeamish as not to follow when the Finger of God himself is giving Direction not in any Ceremony particularly relating to that People but in the Ornament of that Place which by his own Order was consecrated to his Presence and Service But 't is not all Christians even of Those Separated from the Communion of his Church that wholy disallow of this Practice there are several degrees amongst them as to this particular The Lutheran Protestants have their Altars and Church Walls set out with the Images and Pictures of the Apostles of the Virgin Mary of Christ upon the Cross c. Other Protestants who think the best temper of Religion to be in the Compounding Luther and Calvin together dare not go so far and therefore instead of Christ and his Apostles expose only two Saints of the old Law Moses and Aaron in their holy Places admitting generally too the Judaical Ornament of the Ark some Cberubims over their Church doors and Windows but nothing of a Cbristian Representation besides a Modern Sainted Queen This is in such Churches where the Clamours of the Croud overrule where nothing more of Cbrist must appear for fear of offending tender Consciences with the looks and smell of Popery whilst yet in other Places as in some Cathedrals and Vniversities where the People don't awe the Clergy where the Charge of Popery is neglected and the Walls and Windows not left as naked as senceless Fears would have them Cbrist and his Apostles stand with as much Veneration as Moses and Aaron elswhere and a Primitive Martyr is as becoming an Ornament as Queen Elizabeth And this seems so reasonable to some true Sons of this Church that they think nothing more suitable to their Retirement where they design to converse with Heaven than a Crucifix thâ— this Practice some think fit to wave for fear of raising Jealousies in their Family and becoming the talk of the Neighbourhood And this which he sees thus approv'd by many and practis'd by some Protestants he owns and declares for the allow'd and establish'd Practice of his Church So that to be a Papist in this particular is nothing more than to think the Pictures of Christ of his Apostles and Saints to be as ornamental in a Cbristian House as others of Relations Benefactors or Emperours c. And not to joyn hands with him who broke in pieces the Image of Christ upon the Cross while he left those of the Two Thieves stand untoucht 'T is to look upon the Cross or Crucifix as proper in a Church to shew that that Place and Congregation belongs to Christ as the Lion and the Vnicorn or Kings Arms to Intimate that they own the King as Supreme Governour 'T is to esteem the Apostles and Martyrs as fit to have place there for preaching the Gospel there deliver'd and ratifying it with their Bloud as Moses and Aaron for publishing the Commandments or as Queen Elizabeth for establishing the Religion by her Statutes As he is a Papist therefore he cannot have a good Opinion of those who love all sorts of Pictures whether of Relations Landskips Monsters Dogs or Devils but can brook nothing of Christ or his Mother who with Satisfaction enough can Admit of Mahomet Luther Calvin a suffering Russel or Sidney The Saviour of the Nation any Prophane or Immodest Picture whatsoever but presently turn Stomach at the sight of the Worlds Redeemer upon the Cross at any Passage of Christs Passion or sacred Mystery of our Religion represented in Colours No better Christians can he esteem those who cannot endure to be without their Signet to shew their Family who cannot see their Shops or Sign-Posts without the Arms of the Company they are Free of who must have their Scutcheon over their Hall doors to publish the Corporation they belong to and yet can allow of nothing to shew they are Christians who can see Crosses on their Houses and Walls both private and public on their Signs Barges their Ships and Colours as often as you will to speak them belonging to Citizens but a Cross to declare themselves Christians they repute as intollerable These he cannot much esteem for their Christianity as to this Point since he sees they are ashamed of nothing but what is to shew them to be Christians Secondly as to what concerns the Respect and Veneration He shews to Sacred Images of Christ his Mother or Apostles c. he does nothing but what Nature and Reason oblige him too and to explicate what this is he needs no more than declare that as a Loyal Wife who has a tender Love and sincere Respect for her Husband cannot chuse from the pressing Impulse of innocent Nature but have a Love and Respect for his Picture and expresses that Love by kissing it and hanging it at her Breast in the same manner He having a hearty Love and true Honour in his Soul for his Blessed Redeemer Apostles and Martyrs of Christ cannot hinder the irresistable force of Nature from having a Respect and Honour for their Pictures and this same Respect he expresses by kissing them placing them in his Oratory the Church c. Again as Christians Honour and Respect the Bible above all other Books and tho it be made of nothing but Paper Ink Leather Pastboard like all other Volumes yet because the Stroks of that Ink are so order'd and joyn'd in that Paper that they Signifie and Represent to him the Doctrine and Passion of Christ c. for this Reason they cannot chuse but Love and Respect and Honour this Book and if in reading and perusing it any more devout than the rest express these Sentiments of their Souls by kissing it never taking it into their Hands but with an awful Reverence with their Heads uncovered and on their bended knees they do nothing but to the Honour and Glory of God and what may without Superstition or Suspicion of giving Idolatrous Worship to the Paper or Ink of that Book be paid to that Sacred Volume and what has been the Practice of many holy Christians and Saints Upon the same Account and for the
sence enough to put it to the Trial. There may be occasion hereafter of evidencing this in many Particulars at present 't will be sufficient to let the impartial Reader see how far this one Argument taken up by the Faithful Catechist to prove the Papists so stupid as to pray directly to a piece of Wood will contribute to the ruin of the Christian Faith and even of Protestancy it self if an Atheist or Heathen should take it out of his hands and use it to the best advantage of his Cause The Argument is this That it must be suppos'd sufficiently prov'd against Catholicks that they pray directly to the Material Cross because there are some words in a Hymn of their Church which if taken in their literal and rigid sence import a direct praying to it Now let but some honest Heathen turn a True-representing Catechism-maker and following exactly this Copy set before him see whether in faithfully describing the Doctrines and Practices of Protestants according to this Rule he cannot do as much for them that is set them out as Absurd and Ridiculous as they have done for the Church of Rome And to follow the method exactly he must go by Questions and Answers We must suppose therefore that the Title of his Book is thus A Catechism truly representing the Doctrines and Practices of Protestants faithfully drawn out of their own Bible and approv'd Liturgy And that thus He begins Q. What God do the Protestants worship and serve A. They worship a God which they believe to have Hands as they expresly own in their Creed where they daily make this profession He ascended into Heaven and sits at the Right hand of the Father And in Ps 138. 7. they thus address themselves to their God Thou shalt streâ—ch fourth thine Hand against the wrath of mine enemies and thy Right Haâ—d shall save me 2. They believe him to have Ears as Psal 17. 6. where they cry out to him O God incline thine Ear unto me and hear my speech And ib. vers 1. O Lord attend unto my Cry give ear unto my Prayer 3. They believe him to have Eyes Nostrils and Mouth as Psal 17. 2. where praying to God they say Let thine Eyes behold the things that are equal And Psal 18. 8. they thus describe him There went up a Smoke out of his Nostri's and Nostri's out of his Mouth Q. Where do they believe the Seat of their God to be A. In Heaven which they believe to be a place upon some Hill as they proâ—ess Psal 3. 4. I cried unto the Lord with my voice and he heard me out of his holy Hill. And Psal 24. 3. Who shall ascend into the Hill of the Lord And again Psal 43. 3. Let them bring me unto thy Holy Hill. Q. What Creatures shall be sav'd or dwell with God for ever upon this Hill A. All Creatures shall be sav'd both Man and Beasts as they expresly believe Ps 36. 7. Thou Lord shalt save both Man and Beast as the Psalms have it in the Common-prayer And Revel c. 4. 6. Round about the throne of God were four Beasts And chap. 5. 6. In the midst of the throne and of the four Beasts and in the midst of the Elders stood a Lamb. And vers 8 the four Beasts and four and twenty Elders fell down before the Lamb. Q. Whom do Protestants address themselves to in the Solemn and Publick Service of their Church A. They address themselves directly to the Saints as Psal 30. 4. Sing unto the Lord O ye Saints of his and give thanks 2. To the Angels Psal 148. 2. Praise ye him all his Angels 3. To the Sun and Moon Beasts Mountains c. Psal 148. 3. Praise ye him Sun and Moon vers 9. Mountains and all Hills vers 10. Beasts and all Cattel Q In what manner do Protestants perform their Publick Devotion and Service to God A. In Lying Cursing and scandalously defaming one another Q. How in lying A. By having such things in their publick Service to be said by all which scarce any one of them can say with truth as Psal 119. 62. At midnight I will rise to give thanks unto thee Psal 6. 6. I am weary with my groaning all the night make I my bed to swim I water my Couch with my tears Psal 18. 21. I have kept the ways of the Lord and have not wickedly departed from my God. Psal 34. 1. I will bless the Lord at all times his Praise shall continually be in my mouth Psal 35. 13. But as for me when they were sick my clothing was sack-cloth I humblid my self with fasting Psal 109. 24. My knees are weak with fasting Psal 101. 3. I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes Vers 4. A froward heart shall depart from me I will not know a wicked person Vers 5. Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour him will I cut off Vers 7. He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight Psal 113. 4. The mountains skipped like rams and the little hills like lambs These and many more such like Asseverations Promises and Protestations they make in their Devotions and yet how few of them if any without defying their own Consciences and Truth Q. How by Cursing A. In direful Imprecations and fearful wishes imploring the worst of evils against their Neighbour as Psal 109. 6. where they thus pray to God Set thou a wicked man over him and let Satan stand at his right hand when he shall be judg'd let him be condemn'd and let his prayer become sin Let his days be few and let another take his office Let his children he fatherless and his wife a widow Let his children be continually vagabonds and beg Let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places Let the Extortioner catch all that he hath and let the Strangers spoil his labour Let there be none to extend mercy unto him neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children c. can there be more terrible Wishes more direful Imprecations than these Q. How by defaming one another A. By charging one another with the most infamous of Crimes in the heat of their Devotions as in the recital of Ps 50. where the Clerk thus begins vers 18. accusing the Minister When thou sawest a thief then thou consentedst with him and hast been partaker with Adulterers Then the Minister accuses the Clerk Thou givest thy mouth to evil and thy tongue frameth deceit Then the Clerk falls upon the Minister again Thou sittest and speakest against thy Brother and slanderest thine own Mothers Son. Misrcp Hold hold Representer whether will you run you are e'en turning Christianity into a piece of Buffoonry and making a Drol of all Religion Represent You are altogether in the right on 't And this is what I told you in the beginning that there 's no making use of a Protestant Argument which serves that Party for
those expressions of the Fathers are only occasional or accidental but where they treat professedly of this Subject they speak plainly in our behalf and to follow the Rule of one of the Lights of your Church as you stile him in this Pamphlet I would fain know whether a mans judgment must be taken from occasional and incidental passages or from design'd and set discourses which is as much as to ask whether the lively representation of a man by Picture may best be taken when in haste of other business he passes by us giving only a glance of his Countenance or when he purposely and designedly sits in order to that end that his Countenance may be truly represented There 's no Book treats so fully and demonstratively of any Subject in one place but occasionally speaking of the same elsewhere from some obscure or dubious expression furnishes matter for an Objection against the Doctrine before designedly establish'd This is true even of the Bible it self which teaching Christ to be True Man do's yet by the occasional expression of St. Paul saying that he appear'd in Habit as a Man and in the Likeness of a Man give occasion to some to object that he was no Real and Substantial Man which strikes at the very Fundamental Truth deliver'd in that Sacred Volume and if this be true even of the Word of God it self what wonder to find it in the Works of the Fathers much more ample and voluminous Misrepresent This is another shift with a help of a Logical distinction however let this pass too But as long as you don't believe your sences but deny the certainty of those Powers which God has given us to lead us to the Belief of all the Mysteries of Christian Religion I am sure you contradict the Fathers and are in a fair way of undermining the very foundation of Christianity Represent This is the Cock-Argument of the other Light of your Church and it so far resembles the Light that like it it makes a glaring shew but go to grasp it and you find nothing in your Hand Why Misrepresenter even in this Mystery I believe more of my Sences than you do my Eyes tell me there is the colour of Bread and I assent to them my Tongue that it has the tast of Bread I agree to it my smelling that it has the smell of Bread I yield to it my Fingers that it feels like Bread I accept of the Information my Ears tell me from the Words spoken by Christ himself That it is the Body of Christ I believe these too Is not here Misrepresenter one Sence more than you believe And yet you would fain perswade the World I do not believe my Sences The Sence by which Faith comes is that of Hearing S. Paul possitively affirming that Faith comes by Hearing and how do I overthrow the certainty of Christian Religion by hearkning to that Sence by which all Faith is to be conveyed into my Soul Misrepresent You don't believe your Eyes which assure you of the Substance of the Bread being there even after Consecration Represent If your Eyes see the Substance of things they are most extraordinary ones and better than mine For my part mine never saw farther than the Colour or Figure c. of things which are only accidents and the entire Object of that Sence 'T is Reason or Judgment acquaints me with the Substance and this Judgment 't is true I frame generally from the Information of my Sences excepting when they are indisposed or some Divine Revelation intervenes For in this case I choose rather to judge from This than from my Sences as Abraham did who being told by his Sences That those three that appeared to him Gen 18. were Men and by a Revelation from God that they were Angels judged of them and their Nature according to the Revelation and not according to his Sences Misrepresent You are all upon Quirks and Philosophy to day and I am tired with your Distiactions and so farewel till the Holy-days are over Represent Fare you well but do you hear don't forget to send your People to the Chappels to Morrow Morning to see the Nursing and Rocking the Child in the Cradle This is one of your April-Errands for Christmas Morning and you don't think much of making the Papists ridiculous though it be at the expence of making your own people Fools Publish'd with Allowance London Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the Kings most Excellent Majesty for His Houshold and Chappel 1686. THE PAPIST Misrepresented and Represented SECOND PART CHAP. IIII. The Form of the Catholic Church establish'd by Christ No hopes of Salvation out of it The Practice of the Apostles and Primitive Church in this point Good at this day The Protestants as uncharitably damn the Papists as These are said to do the Protestants In reference to the Preface of Wholsome advises from the B. V. c. THe Papists Misrepresented is Member of a Church which excludes all others from the hopes of Salvation besides those who are within the Pale of her own Communion And no doubt his Church is True if uncharitableness be but a Mark of the True one if it be but safest to be on the uncharitable side he 's beyond all question in the right But certainly this is to leave the Rule of Christ and his Apostles and of the Primitive Church who taught none of this damning Doctrine but ever recommended Charity as the necessary foundation of a Christian life THe Papist Represented is taught that Christ our Saviour before his Ascension into Heaven establish'd a Church consisting of all True Believers amongst which he gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the perfecting of the Saints for the work of the Ministery for the edifying of the Body of Christ till we all come in the Vnity of Faith. Ephes 4. 11 12 13. These Apostles Evangelists Pastons and Teachers he constituted over the Faithful to over-see rule and direct them to whom he gave them in charge by the mouth of St. Paul Act. 20. 28. Take heed therefore unto your selves and to all the Flock over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you Over-seers to feed the Church of God which he hath pnrchas'd with his own blood with a strict Command to the Flock or Congregation of the Faithful to be obedient to these Pastors thus put over them by the Ordinance of God Heb. 13. 17. Obey them that have the rule over you and submit your selves for They watch for your Souls as they that must give account And vers 7. Remember them which have the rule over you who have spoken unto you the word of God whose Faith follow This command of submitting to Pastors was given to the Flock as he is taught by St. Paul for the preventing Divisions and Schisms that so notwithstanding their differing private Inclinations Capacities Sence and Judgment by this Obedience and Submission to those that
expected he should know or deliver truly the Doctrine of our Church who is so unhappy as not to know his own Mind But in one breath desires to be inform'd and Vows to follow wheresoever Truth â—or Charity shall lead him and in the very next without condition or reserve desires rather to die than to move one step from where he stands No this coming with Vow'd Docility in one hand and sturdy Presumption in the other is no good Argument of Sincerity and Honesty the qualities he so eagerly pretends to and ungroundedly questions in me Misrepresent Well but he has prov'd beyond the possibility of Reply that the Papists are on the Uncharitable side and Protestants on the Charitable out of your own Authors and your Charitable Doctrine to be new Popery Represent You have his Word for 't p. 8. But any besides a Layman will call it only a Say-so instead of a Proof His Protestant Charity which he even boasts of is the granting Salvation to Papists upon no other score than Invincible Ignorance and for this he thinks them p. 6. Charitable to a high degree And yet this is the very same Charity Papists have for Protestants the allowing of Salvation possible for such as through invincible Ignorance remain separate from the Church being a common opinion of the Modern and Antient Schoolmen And all those who pronounce so severely against Protestants 't is against Protestants remaining such as he words it p. 8. that is Obstinately and Pertinaciously continuing in Error and Schism in which circumstances Papists too are allow'd no claim to Salvation by Protestants Now where 's the Contradictions and the two sorts of Popery he brags of p. 8. Come Misrepresenter I look upon your Friends put to a hard shift when they begin to talk of New Popery They have been making the Papists odious these hundred Years for their Vncharitableness to Protestants and now the Disguise begins to wear off and the Papists appear as Charitable as Protestants nothing can serve to amuse the people and hinder their seeing the delusion but the noise of New Popery This may do with some but methinks a Sincâ—â—e Layman who desires to be led into all Truth p. 5. might be glad to find Men better than he thought them and not seek for one disguise to palliate another If his mind be tinctur'd with the Blood that runs in his Veins p. 11. yet assure him a Friend of his wishes heartily 't wou'd flow something Cooler and cause in him a more Even Pulse than to require as he does p. 12 nothing less than an Infallible Certainty to better his Opinion of the Papists whilst yet a Fallible Perswasion will content him for all the rest of his Religion Publish'd with Allowance LONDON Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel MDCLXXXVI THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. IX The Scriptures not always the Same to the same Person No Possibility of meeting in One Faith whil'st Private Reason sets up for Interpreter of the Word of God. The Sham-story of the Frogs and Crabs The Truth of the Anniversary Solemnity Misrepresent YOur last attempt of Proving the Scriptures to be as various in the Heads of Protestants as there are Heads amongst them was very Bold and I am perswaded now you are Cooler you 'l disown the Assertion Represent What I said was to lay before you the Reason why amongst the Catholics the Reading of the Bible is not promiscuously allow'd the Vulgar And to that end I shew'd you that the Ordinary People in all Nations being for the most part Vnlearned and Vnstable wheresoever the Canvassing the Scripture is freely permitted them without exception they generally understand it several ways and consequently what is the Scripture to Them is Multiplied and made as Numerous as their different Conceptions and Imaginations of it And now I 'll go farther with you for 't is not only thus in several People but even the same Person many times has the Faculty of Multiplyiâ—g the Word of God. For how many are to be found amongst the Vulgar who according to their different Humours as their Interest changes according to the different Impressions they receive from Confidents especially such as have gain'd their good Opinion espouse different Doctrines and Perswasions and run through as many Sects as there are Divisions in the Nation And yet in all their Windings they still follow as they imagine the Scriptures always guiding themselves by what they think the Word of God evidently speaks to them Don't you see how to these same Persons the Word of God is not always the same It alters according to Seasons and Times and 't was one Word of God directed them the last year another this and it may be another before the next So that tho' it be always the same Vnchangeable in their Hands as to the Letter yet it often changes in their Heads as the Meaning Misrepresent This is a fine Whim to undermine the Authority of the Scriptures But say what you will the Word of God is Plain Easie and Clear and God has given to every one Reason enough to Understand it the Reading it is comfortable the Following it a Duty And 't is an injury of the highest nature to deprive any tho the meanest Soul of so considerable a Blessing Represent If it be so Plain and Easie as you say how comes it there 's so little agreement in the Vnderstanding it How are there so many Different and Contrary Divisions Sects and Perswdsions in this One Nation How comes it that even in the Essentials of Christianity concerning the Trinity Incarnation the Divinity of Christ the Sacrament Baptism the Holy Catholic Church the Communion of Saints the Forgiveness of Sins the Resurrection of the Flesh c. there has been and at present is so great diversity amongst those that read the Scripture The business is you are for setting up every mans Private Reason to be Judge of Scripture If you have seen the Answer to the Protestant Plea for a Socinian you 'l find there p. 26. he points it out for the Mark of a Right Socinian to make Reason the Rule of the Scriptures Such a one says he makes Reason the Rule of that Rule And are not you far worse in this than the Rankest Socinian in the World whilst with him you do not make Common Reason the Measure of that Rule but every mans Private Reason which when put to the Test proves in Thousands and Thousands to be nothing better than Passion Prejudice Interest Imagination Guessing or Phancy Don't you find by experience there 's no such Trivial Proposal made but presently the Company 's divided there 's Head against Head Reason against Reason and this tho' the concern be but of Hay or Straw or the most obvious in the World Don't you see again that almost every Man's Reason is different as their Capacity Parts Education Temper Inclination Impressions are different
in Three of them by his Legates or Deputy They shew great Respect to his Letters and follow his Direction They hear him call'd their Head without Contradiction and call him so Themselves They own him to have the Care of the Vineyard vâ—z the Whole Church committed by Christ to his Charge Now how can I imagine the Bishops there assembled to be Protestants since You and I that know what kind of things Protestants are are very well assar'd that had those Prelates been Protetants instead of these Honourable Titles and Respects they had e'en set upon Him with those Course Protestant Complements of Antichrist Whore of Babylon Vsurper c. with a peremptory Demand of What had he to meddle there with his Legates and 〈◊〉 of Direction in the 〈◊〉 Church whose Diocese like other Bishops was no other but what was over-lookt by the Seven Hills You know if the Centurists Osiander Mr. Cartwright Bibliander Dr. Whitaker Mr. Bale or Mr. Beard had been there they had in such Honourable Phrases Entitled him to Tyranny and Vsurpation as they have since with other of their Brethren done in their Writings But since instead of these Reform'd Complements I find the Pope Treated by those Four First General Councils with all Submission Respect and Veneration how can my Reason be convinc'd that those Bishops and Divines there assembled were Protestants Do you but imagine with your self that Pope Sylvester Damasus Celestine and Leo instead of Directing their Legates and Letters to those First General Councils had sent them to a Synod of Dort of Charenton to such Committees for Religion or Convocations as have been at any time held in these Northern Climates since the time of Lather's Pretended Reformation what Reception do you think they would have had Can you imagine they would have given to the Legates the most Honourable Seats as was done in those Councils Would they be heard to stile the Pope the Successor of Peter and Their Head with that awful Silence as was done there Would the Pope's Orders and Directions be receiv'd with that Submission as was done by those Venerable Synods Misrepres Troth I am apt to believe they would not Repres Then I am apt to believe and have Reason for 't that the Prelates and Divines of those Four First General Councils were nothing like These that have been of late assembled in our National Synods and Convocations that is No Protestants For if your Protestant Religion were really the same Religion as was then Profess'd in the time of those First Councils the Behaviour of those Ancient Prelates had certainly been no other than such as might rationally be expected from our Modern Protestant Synods and Convocations had the same Legates and Letters been Directed from the Pope to them and yet how Vast a difference there is betwixt what Those did heretofore and These would do now were they in the like Circumstances You your self cannot but acknowledge and whilst you own that Those Primitive Bishops of the Ancient and yet Pure Church did behave themselves so unlike Protestants how can I who am to govern my self by Reason conclude them to have been Protestants Come you exact too hard a Task of me if you expect I shall believe that the Primitive Christians were Protestants you must e'en do more than Say so you must shew that those Ancient Doctors did behave themselves in their Pulpits like our Modern Doctors That They did then in their Sermons rail against the Pope and endeavour to prove Him Antichrist That Obeying and Believing the Catholic Church was going Blindfold and Pinning Faith upon Sleeves That Praying to Saints was Idolatry and Praying for the Souls departed an Idle Superstition and a Tricking them to Heaven I have shewn you the same Popish Doctrines Profess'd heretofore as you now find at this day shew me but such Damning Sermons Preach'd against them heretofore and you 'l do something Publish'd with Allowance Printed by Henry Hills Printer to the King 's Most Excellent Majesty for his Houshold and Chappel M DC LXXX VI. THE CATHOLIC REPRESENTER CHAP. XIV No Protestant Harangue in the First Four General Councils to fill the Fathers Heads with Fears and Jealousies No Canons made by the said Fathers to prevent the Growth of Popery at that Time professedly Taught and Practis'd is an Argument that the Fathers of those Councils were no Protestants Representer I Hope you are by this time satisfi'd Misrepresenter that the Professors of such Doctrines and Principles as you call Popish were every where to be found in the Time of the Primitive Church when you say the Protestant Religion was Generally Profess'd amongst Christians Misrepresent I very freely acknowledge That in the Time of the Primitive Church and of the First Four General Councils there were very many Eminent Men thro' Infirmity or Blindness Embracing and Professing Popish Doctrines This I will not be so obstinate as to deny because I find most of the Ancient Fathers of the Church branded with the Mark of Popish Errors by Our own Century-Writers and other Protestant Divines Hierome Ambrose Austin Athanasius Gregory Chrysostome and the rest of them do not escape this Censure They all had their Failings in this Point They câ—ndescended too much to the Infirmity of their Times and in many of their Doctrines knew not what they said or Taught But still the Church was Protestant and the Four First General Councils as I told you before were all Protestants You may claim some Particular Doctors of those Times if you will and welcom but for the Church and Councils these were certainly Ours and their Religion was the same True Protestant Religion as is here by Law Establish'd Repres Well I don't know how far Interest or Passion or Education may work in this Point But I cannot bring my Reason and What you say to meet for my Life and yet I have been trying and turning and stretching it every way since our last Meeting and ' twon't do at last For look you now You say Those First General Councils were Protestants This presently raises a Notion in my Head That all those Bishops and Divines there assembled were like our Protestants here in England and I presently resemble them to our Convocations or Parliaments Here I begin to Imagine what so many Divines of Ours would have done in those Times had they been then in Body I consider that the Times were then very Dangerous Popery as you confess began to spread many Eminent Men were infected with its Errors Then think I Certainly if the Fathers in those Councils had been Protestants there could not have been wanting some Zealous Doctor who would have animated the Fathers to the utter Exâ—irpation of those Errors and with a Fervorous Protestant Harangue have prepar'd them for the Enacting of Laws or Canons to prevent the Growth of Popery and sor the Preservation of the Protestant the most Moderate and best Religion in the World. I cannot 〈◊〉 but there would