donatist_n who_o justify_v themselves_o as_o you_o sir_n knight_n justify_v your_o church_n much_o more_o of_o this_o may_v be_v say_v but_o this_o may_v serve_v to_o show_v you_o not_o to_o be_v in_o your_o right_a wit_n that_o brag_v of_o that_o which_o you_o ought_v most_o to_o be_v ashamed_a of_o and_o account_n that_o to_o make_v for_o you_o which_o make_v most_o against_o you_o 9_o for_o that_o which_o you_o talk_v of_o go_v out_o of_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o you_o will_v have_v man_n understand_v the_o catholic_a church_n as_o if_o you_o be_v command_v to_o go_v out_o from_o she_o do_v but_o once_o show_v we_o that_o egypt_n and_o babylon_n which_o the_o sripture_n speak_v of_o be_v ever_o the_o true_a church_n and_o then_o you_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v say_v some_o what_o for_o your_o church_n departure_n from_o the_o roman_a which_o impudence_n itself_o can_v deny_v to_o have_v be_v once_o the_o true_a church_n you_o be_v bold_a indeed_o to_o say_v that_o babylon_n 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we_o and_o yet_o reformation_n deny_v by_o the_o pope_n both_o which_o be_v easy_o answer_v first_o by_o ask_v what_o all_o this_o be_v to_o his_o purpose_n suppose_v it_o be_v true_a do_v this_o show_n his_o church_n to_o have_v be_v always_o visible_a or_o we_o to_o have_v be_v at_o any_o time_n not_o visible_a he_o be_v not_o to_o stand_v upon_o matter_n of_o contention_n who_o be_v cause_n or_o not_o cause_v thereof_o or_o who_o will_v have_v mend_v who_o not_o for_o the_o error_n in_o faith_n which_o he_o seem_v to_o tax_v â—s_n withal_o in_o his_o three_o section_n if_o he_o can_v prove_v they_o he_o say_v somewhat_o indeed_o though_o yet_o not_o so_o full_o to_o his_o purpose_n for_o though_o he_o prove_v we_o to_o have_v have_v some_o error_n it_o do_v not_o so_o present_o follow_v that_o they_o of_o his_o side_n have_v have_v none_o or_o that_o therefore_o their_o church_n have_v be_v ever_o visible_a there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o require_v to_o it_o then_o so_o and_o though_o he_o shall_v prove_v some_o error_n to_o have_v be_v teach_v by_o some_o particular_a man_n or_o even_o in_o some_o country_n profess_v the_o catholic_a faith_n it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v fail_v in_o faith_n or_o cease_v to_o be_v visible_a 2._o second_o i_o answer_v to_o his_o second_o section_n which_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o the_o contention_n proceed_v from_o we_o which_o he_o undertake_v to_o prove_v by_o our_o own_o confession_n that_o in_o all_o this_o section_n he_o bring_v but_o four_o authority_n to_o wit_n cassander_n a_o canon_n of_o his_o english_a church_n out_o of_o the_o praeface_n to_o jewel_n work_n camden_n cite_v s._n bede_n plessy_n morney_n cite_v michael_n caesenas_n of_o all_o which_o only_a s._n bede_n be_v a_o catholic_a and_o even_o cite_v by_o the_o protestant_a camden_n and_o only_o for_o a_o story_n which_o he_o tell_v of_o one_o redwalde_a king_n of_o the_o east_n saxon_n who_o be_v first_o convert_v to_o 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of_o gabr._n and_o pet._n lomb._n the_o one_o say_v it_o be_v not_o certain_a but_o it_o may_v seem_v probable_a that_o god_n reveal_v unto_o saint_n all_o those_o suit_n which_o man_n present_v unto_o they_o the_o other_o that_o it_o be_v not_o incredible_a that_o the_o soul_n of_o saint_n hear_v the_o prayer_n of_o their_o suppliant_n well_o be_v it_o so_o sir_n hum._n let_v it_o be_v uncertain_a as_o you_o say_v it_o be_v whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n or_o not_o yet_o it_o follow_v not_o for_o all_o that_o that_o our_o doctrine_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v uncertain_a for_o as_o bellar._n well_o note_v it_o may_v be_v good_a and_o profitable_a to_o invoke_v the_o saint_n though_o they_o themselves_o shall_v not_o hear_v we_o but_o only_o almighty_a god_n for_o they_o what_o be_v you_o the_o better_a then_o but_o beside_o it_o be_v not_o uncertain_a whether_o the_o saint_n hear_v we_o or_o no_o that_o be_v it_o be_v not_o uncertain_a whether_o they_o know_v 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speak_v not_o doubtful_o but_o certain_o of_o invocation_n and_o so_o go_v on_o with_o his_o discourse_n prove_v that_o notwithstanding_o that_o almighty_a god_n be_v of_o himself_o most_o propitious_a and_o merciful_a yet_o that_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o that_o the_o saint_n may_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o after_o that_o fall_v to_o discourse_v of_o the_o manner_n how_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n the_o like_a i_o may_v say_v of_o peter_n lombard_n who_o though_o he_o say_v only_o in_o those_o word_n which_o you_o bring_v that_o it_o be_v not_o incredible_a that_o the_o saint_n hear_v our_o prayer_n yet_o for_o their_o hear_n or_o see_v our_o prayer_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n as_o the_o angel_n do_v he_o make_v no_o doubt_n sicut_fw-la enim_fw-la angelisit_fw-la a_o etiam_fw-la sanctis_fw-la qui_fw-la deo_fw-la assistunt_fw-la petitiones_fw-la nostrae_fw-la innotescunt_fw-la in_o verbo_fw-la dei_fw-la quod_fw-la contemplantur_fw-la say_v he_o for_o as_o our_o prayer_n become_v know_v to_o the_o angel_n in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o they_o behold_v so_o also_o to_o the_o saint_n who_o stand_v before_o god_n so_o as_o here_o be_v something_o more_o sir_n humphrey_n with_o your_o good_a leave_n then_o probability_n and_o uncertainty_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o these_o doctor_n though_o you_o be_v please_v to_o conclude_v out_o of_o they_o that_o there_o be_v nothing_o but_o probability_n and_o uncertainty_n though_o if_o there_o be_v but_o probability_n only_o it_o be_v more_o than_o you_o have_v for_o any_o point_n of_o your_o faith_n as_o it_o be_v you_o 10._o for_o caietan_n authority_n concern_v the_o miracle_n whereon_o the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n be_v ground_v it_o be_v true_a as_o he_o say_v the_o authority_n of_o they_o be_v but_o humane_a as_o rely_v upon_o the_o testimony_n of_o man_n but_o what_o then_o ergo_fw-la we_o be_v uncertain_a whether_o the_o canonize_a saint_n be_v in_o heaven_n or_o no_o this_o be_v your_o conclusion_n and_o it_o be_v like_o one_o of_o you_o indeed_o but_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o follow_v not_o for_o the_o certainty_n of_o canonisation_n depend_v upon_o a_o more_o certain_a ground_n to_o wit_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o sea_n apostolic_a and_o continual_a assistance_n and_o direction_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n the_o spirit_n of_o truth_n to_o who_o it_o belong_v not_o to_o suffer_v christ_n vicar_n use_v humane_a diligence_n and_o proceed_v prudent_o in_o a_o matter_n of_o that_o moment_n to_o err_v and_o the_o proof_n of_o miracle_n be_v only_o use_v that_o he_o may_v proceed_v prudent_o &_o upon_o good_a ground_n &_o in_o that_o sense_n miracle_n be_v say_v to_o ground_n the_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n not_o that_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o one_o do_v whole_o depend_v on_o the_o certainty_n of_o the_o other_o so_o as_o caietan_n help_v you_o not_o a_o jot_n to_o prove_v the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o canonisation_n of_o saint_n no_o more_o than_o do_v s._n aug._n and_o sulpitius_n in_o those_o authoritye_n which_o you_o bring_v out_o of_o they_o for_o they_o speak_v not_o a_o word_n of_o any_o canonize_a saint_n and_o as_o for_o the_o place_n of_o s._n aug._n bellarm._n answer_v that_o perhaps_o it_o be_v not_o he_o which_o word_n perhaps_o you_o take_v hold_v of_o as_o if_o you_o will_v make_v your_o reader_n think_v it_o be_v but_o a_o slender_a answer_n or_o rather_o a_o grant_n of_o the_o authority_n whereas_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o bell._n use_v that_o word_n out_o of_o modesty_n because_o as_o he_o say_v he_o can_v never_o find_v it_o in_o any_o work_n of_o s._n aug._n which_o notwithstanding_o he_o will_v not_o say_v peremptory_o it_o be_v not_o there_o but_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o have_v it_o s._n augustin_n sir_n humphrey_n tell_v we_o where_o out_o of_o your_o great_a read_n &_o then_o you_o shall_v find_v 3._o or_o 4._o several_a answer_n ready_a in_o bellarmine_n without_o any_o peradventure_o and_o indeed_o any_o man_n of_o ordinary_a wit_n will_v present_o see_v the_o place_n do_v not_o urge_v a_o whit_n for_o who_o do_v doubt_n but_o many_o dead_a man_n be_v mighty_o honour_v by_o some_o man_n here_o upon_o earth_n who_o soul_n be_v bury_v full_a low_a in_o hell_n another_o answer_n of_o bellarmine_n be_v that_o if_o there_o be_v any_o such_o place_n in_o s._n aug._n it_o may_v be_v very_o well_o understand_v of_o the_o martyr_n of_o the_o donatist_n who_o be_v honour_v by_o those_o haeretique_n for_o martyr_n who_o soul_n be_v torment_v in_o hell_n as_o the_o same_o b._n saint_n say_v of_o they_o elsewhere_o 68_o aug._n ep_v 68_o vivebant_fw-la ut_fw-la latrones_fw-la honorabantur_fw-la ut_fw-la martyr_n they_o live_v as_o thief_n and_o be_v honour_v as_o martyr_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o our_o canonize_a saint_n be_v here_o any_o the_o least_o shadow_n thereof_o for_o that_o story_n of_o sulpitius_n it_o be_v true_a that_o there_o be_v one_o worship_v by_o the_o people_n for_o 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therefore_o good_a sport_n to_o so_o a_o right_n learned_a knight_n as_o you_o be_v forsooth_o by_o a_o new_a strain_n of_o wit_n to_o bring_v it_o to_o prove_v the_o uncertainty_n of_o our_o canonisation_n wherein_o you_o must_v argue_v thus_o some_o people_n in_o s._n martin_n time_n do_v err_v in_o worship_v a_o dead_a thief_n for_o a_o saint_n without_o any_o sufficient_a reason_n or_o approbation_n of_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la catholic_n may_v err_v in_o worship_v of_o saint_n canonize_v and_o authorize_v by_o the_o church_n upon_o great_a and_o evident_a proof_n of_o their_o holy_a life_n and_o death_n and_o upon_o many_o and_o manifest_a miracle_n be_v not_o this_o a_o trim_a argument_n to_o be_v print_v and_o reprint_v 11._o in_o the_o next_o place_n you_o come_v with_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o purgatory_n whereof_o you_o say_v s._n aug._n
essay_n of_o your_o poor_a endeavour_n to_o make_v the_o world_n see_v it_o be_v no_o difficult_a matter_n for_o a_o mean_a lay_v man_n to_o prove_v the_o ancient_a visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a profession_n provoke_v thereto_o by_o a_o iesuit_n challenge_n to_o show_v out_o of_o good_a author_n that_o the_o protestant_n church_n be_v visible_a in_o all_o age_n before_o luther_n and_o this_o you_o undertake_v to_o do_v not_o only_o out_o of_o the_o most_o orthodox_n father_n but_o alsoe_o out_o of_o the_o romish_a bishop_n doctor_n cardinal_n etc._n etc._n this_o essay_n of_o your_o labour_n sir_n humphrey_n be_v poor_a indeed_o not_o to_o stand_v complementinge_v with_o you_o as_o i_o shall_v after_o show_v and_o for_o your_o proof_n out_o of_o father_n and_o other_o writer_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n we_o shall_v there_o also_o see_v what_o once_o they_o be_v that_o be_v either_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n or_o out_o of_o author_n brand_v with_o the_o mark_n of_o 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to_o find_v out_o the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v a_o thing_n more_o spiritual_a and_o less_o subject_a to_o the_o sense_n by_o that_o which_o be_v corporal_a and_o more_o subject_a to_o the_o view_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o man_n for_o this_o be_v the_o way_n that_o all_o scholar_n in_o the_o teach_n of_o all_o science_n take_v to_o wit_n to_o begin_v with_o that_o which_o be_v know_v and_o evident_a and_o by_o it_o to_o come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o that_o which_o be_v hide_v according_a to_o aristotel_n doctrine_n 6._o and_o this_o have_v ever_o be_v the_o way_n which_o the_o holy_a father_n have_v take_v either_o in_o prove_v the_o catholic_a faith_n or_o disprovinge_v of_o heresy_n so_o tertullian_n marcio_n tertullian_n praescrip_n cap._n 32._o &_o lib._n 3._o car_n adu_fw-la marcio_n so_o irenaeus_n 43.45.46_o irenaeus_n lib._n 3._o cap._n 1.2.3_o &_o lib._n 4._o cap._n 43.45.46_o so_o cyprian_n 76._o cyprian_n ep_v 52._o &_o 76._o optatus_n parm._n optatus_n lib._n 2._o adver_v parm._n and_o most_o of_o all_o that_o great_a doctor_n s._n augustine_n 7._o augustine_n psal_n 2._o part_n don._n &_o ep_n 165._o &_o the_o util_a credend_a cap._n 7._o in_o several_a place_n and_o particular_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr utilitate_fw-la credenai_fw-la where_o write_n to_o his_o friend_n honoratus_n who_o he_o labour_v to_o draw_v from_o the_o manichaean_n heresy_n and_o put_v case_n that_o he_o do_v doubt_v what_o religion_n to_o follow_v he_o say_v without_o doubt_n he_o be_v to_o begin_v his_o enquiry_n from_o the_o catholic_a church_n proculdubio_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la catholica_fw-la sumendum_fw-la exordium_n for_o say_v he_o whereas_o there_o be_v among_o christian_n many_o heresy_n all_o which_o desire_v to_o seem_v catholic_n and_o call_v other_o haeretique_n there_o be_v one_o church_n as_o all_o grant_n if_o you_o regard_v the_o whole_a world_n refertior_fw-la multitudine_fw-la ut_fw-la autem_fw-la qui_fw-la noverunt_fw-la affirmant_fw-la 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least_o in_o matter_n not_o yet_o define_v he_o must_v have_v that_o indifferency_n and_o readiness_n of_o will_n and_o judgement_n to_o believe_v as_o the_o church_n shall_v teach_v true_a it_o be_v the_o unlearned_a know_v less_o of_o particular_a point_n though_o all_o be_v bind_v to_o the_o express_a or_o explicit_a knowledge_n of_o some_o article_n as_o of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n of_o the_o commandment_n of_o god_n and_o the_o church_n sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n of_o some_o sacrement_n and_o every_o one_o of_o so_o much_o as_o perteyn_v both_o to_o the_o common_a obligation_n of_o christian_a duty_n and_o of_o his_o own_o particular_a state_n and_o vocation_n for_o the_o rest_n it_o be_v not_o necessary_a for_o any_o one_o in_o particular_a to_o know_v all_o but_o it_o suffice_v that_o he_o have_v a_o mind_n so_o praepare_v that_o when_o he_o shall_v understand_v more_o to_o be_v needful_a he_o be_v ready_a to_o embrace_v it_o which_o a_o man_n will_v think_v be_v but_o 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est_fw-la &_o in_o maiori_fw-la iniquus_fw-la est_fw-la he_o that_o wicked_a in_o a_o little_a be_v wicked_a in_o a_o great_a for_o costerus_n do_v not_o say_v that_o it_o do_v not_o come_v in_o by_o the_o commandment_n of_o the_o bishop_n but_o not_o so_o much_o by_o that_o as_o by_o the_o people_n use_n and_o practice_n 9_o now_o what_o be_v this_o to_o your_o purpose_n where_o be_v costerus_n his_o testimony_n for_o the_o antiquity_n universality_n certainty_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o protestant_a religion_n be_v not_o that_o whole_a book_n write_v only_o to_o maintain_v the_o catholic_a roman_a faith_n in_o the_o point_n now_o adays_o in_o controversy_n and_o to_o condemn_v the_o contrary_a of_o vanity_n folly_n and_o error_n how_o then_o can_v he_o think_v it_o self_n but_o because_o i_o will_v not_o stand_v to_o deduce_v it_o by_o way_n of_o argument_n i_o will_v only_o cite_v one_o place_n direct_o opposite_a to_o the_o scope_n of_o this_o your_o section_n where_o he_o say_v that_o only_a the_o child_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o cost_n enchir_o cap._n 2._o n._n 3._o by_o which_o church_n he_o mean_v the_o catholic_a apostolic_a roman_a church_n as_o he_o often_o declare_v himself_o merit_v increase_v of_o grace_n and_o aeternal_a life_n that_o they_o only_o be_v grateful_a &_o please_v to_o god_n they_o only_o the_o child_n and_o friend_n of_o god_n they_o only_o have_v communion_n with_o the_o saint_n and_o merit_n of_o saint_n they_o only_o be_v adorn_v with_o true_a and_o christian_a virtue_n they_o only_o have_v the_o promise_n and_o certain_a expectation_n of_o aeternal_a life_n which_o say_v the_o be_v great_a and_o most_o true_a privilege_n for_o out_o of_o the_o church_n nothing_o of_o all_o this_o be_v find_v no_o holiness_n no_o christian_a virtue_n no_o work_n please_v to_o god_n no_o merit_n no_o hope_n of_o salvation_n thus_o he_o now_o good_a sir_n knight_n be_v not_o here_o good_a comfort_n for_o you_o be_v you_o in_o costerus_n his_o judgement_n in_o the_o more_o certain_a and_o safe_a way_n do_v not_o you_o then_o abuse_v author_n to_o your_o own_o and_o other_o man_n perdition_n but_o though_o you_o be_v become_v a_o sectmaister_n or_o at_o least_o a_o great_a master_n in_o the_o protestant_a sect_n there_o be_v little_a hope_n that_o this_o lay_v open_a of_o your_o deal_n will_v make_v you_o better_o but_o rather_o make_v you_o more_o enrage_a yet_o i_o trust_v some_o well_o mean_v people_n delude_v by_o you_o may_v hereby_o come_v to_o understand_v themselves_o better_a and_o come_v to_o the_o only_a safe_a way_n indeed_o the_o catholic_a church_n and_o leave_v you_o to_o your_o protestant_a safety_n 10._o but_o since_o you_o be_v also_o so_o shameless_a here_o as_o to_o say_v that_o we_o do_v not_o condemn_v you_o for_o receive_v in_o both_o kind_n look_v in_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o see_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o find_v a_o heavy_a curse_n against_o any_o that_o shall_v say_v that_o all_o and_o every_o of_o the_o faithful_a aught_o by_o the_o precept_n of_o god_n 1._o sess_n 21._o can_n 1._o or_o necessity_n of_o salvation_n to_o receive_v both_o species_n or_o kind_n of_o the_o most_o holy_a sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la dixerit_fw-la ex_fw-la dei_fw-la praecepto_fw-la vel_fw-la necessitate_v salutis_fw-la omnes_fw-la &_o singulos_fw-la christi_fw-la fideles_fw-la utramque_fw-la speciem_fw-la sanctissimi_fw-la eucharistiae_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la sumere_fw-la debere_fw-la anathema_n sit_v the_o like_a have_v the_o council_n alsoe_o of_o constance_n so_o plain_a 174._o pag._n 174._o that_o you_o yourself_o afterward_o confess_v that_o the_o one_o do_v accurse_v the_o other_o accuse_v all_o for_o haeretique_n that_o deny_v the_o lawfulness_n of_o one_o kind_n as_o you_o do_v if_o then_o we_o not_o only_o write_v against_o your_o doctrine_n as_o against_o a_o haeresy_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o all_o our_o controversy_n and_o school_n divine_v and_o even_o by_o gerson_n treatise_n against_o the_o haeresy_n of_o lay_n communion_n under_o both_o kind_n which_o treatise_n you_o yourself_o cite_v elsewhere_o in_o the_o margin_n but_o also_o condemn_v it_o in_o two_o general_a counsel_n how_o can_v you_o have_v the_o face_n to_o say_v we_o do_v not_o condemn_v you_o good_a god_n what_o shall_v a_o man_n say_v to_o such_o man_n as_o you_o be_v 11._o but_o to_o come_v to_o doctor_n harding_n the_o three_o author_n of_o we_o which_o you_o bring_v to_o prove_v the_o antiquity_n universality_n certainty_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o faith_n let_v we_o hear_v how_o you_o use_v he_o you_o say_v when_o you_o accuse_v we_o of_o private_a mass_n contrary_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o custom_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n we_o excuse_v it_o that_o it_o be_v through_o their_o own_o default_n and_o negligence_n whereof_o say_v mr._n
harding_n the_o godly_a and_o faithful_a people_n since_o the_o time_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n have_v much_o complain_v so_o you_o wherein_o first_o any_o man_n may_v see_v there_o be_v no_o sense_n for_o here_o be_v a_o relative_a their_o without_o a_o antecedent_n which_o fault_n if_o you_o have_v comit_v in_o a_o theme_n when_o you_o be_v a_o schoolboy_n it_o may_v perhaps_o have_v cost_v you_o somewhat_o for_o you_o do_v not_o express_v who_o it_o be_v that_o doctor_n harding_n speak_v of_o when_o he_o say_v it_o be_v their_o own_o default_n neither_o can_v it_o be_v himself_o or_o catholic_n in_o general_a for_o than_o he_o will_v have_v express_v it_o in_o the_o first_o person_n say_v it_o be_v our_o own_o fault_n and_o if_o it_o be_v not_o himself_o nor_o catholic_n in_o general_n then_o can_v it_o be_v no_o excuse_n for_o they_o be_v catholic_n in_o general_a or_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o you_o accuse_v and_o the_o accusation_n and_o excuse_n must_v answer_v one_o the_o other_o 12._o second_o it_o be_v no_o excuse_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o mass_n for_o a_o excuse_n have_v no_o place_n but_o where_o the_o thing_n whereof_o a_o man_n be_v accuse_v be_v acknowledge_v for_o a_o fault_n now_o that_o be_v not_o here_o for_o that_o whereof_o you_o accuse_v we_o be_v that_o our_o priest_n say_v mass_n without_o any_o communicant_n which_o thing_n dr._n harding_n be_v so_o far_o from_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v blame_v worthy_a that_o he_o do_v express_o and_o stout_o maintain_v it_o against_o your_o jewel_n as_o a_o special_a controversy_n in_o that_o whole_a chapter_n which_o you_o cite_v how_o then_o do_v he_o excuse_v it_o three_o he_o do_v maintain_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n in_o this_o as_o in_o all_o other_o point_n where_o this_o canon_n be_v decree_v 8._o sess_n 22._o can_n 8._o cite_v also_o this_o very_a decree_n si_fw-mi quis_fw-la dixerit_fw-la missas_fw-la in_o quibus_fw-la solus_fw-la sacerdos_n sacramentaliter_fw-la communicate_v illicitas_fw-la esse_fw-la ideoque_fw-la abrogandas_fw-la anathema_n sit_v if_o any_o man_n say_v that_o mass_n wherein_o the_o priest_n only_o communicate_v sacramental_o be_v unlawful_a and_o therefore_o to_o be_v abrogate_a let_v he_o be_v anathema_n four_o in_o another_o place_n he_o deni_v your_o very_a term_n of_o private_a mass_n and_o note_v upon_o the_o conference_n between_o luther_n and_o the_o devil_n which_o he_o there_o set_v down_o that_o that_o term_v in_o luther_n sense_n and_o your_o come_v first_o out_o of_o the_o devil_n school_n and_o say_v that_o all_o mass_n be_v public_a in_o regard_n it_o be_v offer_v by_o the_o priest_n who_o be_v the_o public_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n and_o avail_v all_o not_o only_o not_o communicant_n but_o even_o not_o present_a which_o be_v alsoe_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o council_n five_o i_o answer_v that_o though_o you_o set_v down_o this_o authority_n lame_o in_o this_o place_n so_o as_o no_o man_n can_v tell_v what_o to_o make_v of_o it_o yet_o cite_v the_o same_o else_o where_o you_o say_v out_o of_o he_o that_o it_o be_v the_o people_n own_o fault_n and_o want_n of_o devotion_n that_o they_o do_v not_o communicate_v with_o the_o priest_n which_o be_v but_o the_o same_o that_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n also_o say_v which_o be_v a_o clean_a other_o matter_n for_o you_o do_v not_o accuse_v our_o people_n coldness_n of_o devotion_n for_o that_o will_v fall_v much_o more_o upon_o your_o own_o but_o our_o priest_n for_o say_v mass_n without_o the_o people_n communicate_v which_o be_v no_o fault_n and_o this_o dr._n harding_n make_v good_a the_o other_o he_o excuse_v or_o rather_o not_o excuse_v but_o acknowledge_v and_o condemn_v as_o a_o fault_n 13._o and_o for_o his_o opinion_n of_o your_o religion_n in_o general_n look_v but_o in_o his_o epistle_n to_o jewel_n before_o his_o rejoinder_n to_o jewel_n be_v reply_n and_o there_o you_o shall_v find_v he_o show_v you_o 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jewel_n farewell_n have_v not_o you_o then_o great_a reason_n to_o have_v affiance_n in_o mr._n dr._n harding_n testimony_n of_o the_o antiquity_n universality_n and_o safety_n of_o your_o faith_n do_v not_o you_o then_o herein_o notorious_o abuse_v all_o manner_n of_o man_n both_o author_n and_o reader_n but_o this_o be_v so_o ordinary_a with_o you_o that_o there_o be_v no_o wonder_v at_o it_o 14._o well_o thus_o much_o then_o for_o these_o three_o author_n who_o you_o have_v so_o egregious_o belie_v now_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o you_o say_v of_o your_o own_o or_o of_o yourself_o you_o say_v our_o best_a learned_a yet_o you_o name_v none_o decline_v those_o our_o tradition_n which_o you_o deny_v and_o that_o the_o most_o ingenious_a of_o we_o be_v ashamed_a of_o those_o addition_n which_o you_o deny_v neither_o do_v you_o name_v any_o of_o these_o ingenious_a people_n for_o example_n you_o say_v when_o we_o be_v charge_v with_o worship_v of_o image_n we_o deny_v it_o or_o excuse_v 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the_o difference_n be_v not_o in_o the_o absolution_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o lose_v or_o untie_n it_o can_v not_o be_v also_o in_o the_o guilt_n which_o must_v needs_o be_v remit_v in_o your_o indulgence_n as_o well_o as_o in_o we_o for_o a_o man_n be_v not_o free_a so_o long_o as_o he_o be_v guilty_a if_o then_o they_o be_v free_v by_o that_o pardon_n the_o guilt_n be_v take_v away_o thereby_o it_o be_v not_o likewise_o in_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n which_o be_v alike_o remit_v in_o the_o one_o and_o other_o for_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n or_o penance_n which_o man_n be_v free_v from_o in_o those_o time_n by_o indulgence_n and_o so_o it_o be_v temporal_a punishment_n which_o we_o be_v now_o adays_o free_v from_o by_o our_o indulgence_n wherefore_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v sir_n humphrey_n when_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v a_o difference_n in_o this_o say_v that_o indulgence_n which_o be_v first_o use_v for_o mitigation_n of_o punishment_n be_v 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by_o the_o bishop_n and_o so_o it_o be_v also_o now_o for_o every_o bishop_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n have_v this_o power_n but_o you_o will_v say_v humphrey_n not_o so_o much_o now_o as_o then_o be_v it_o so_o that_o be_v against_o yourself_o for_o that_o be_v your_o complaint_n that_o it_o be_v more_o use_v now_o then_o in_o those_o time_n but_o you_o say_v again_o the_o pope_n have_v more_o now_o than_o he_o have_v then_o and_o that_o all_o be_v transfer_v whole_o to_o he_o to_o which_o i_o answer_v that_o this_o late_a part_n be_v false_a all_o be_v not_o so_o whole_o transfer_v but_o that_o every_o bishop_n have_v his_o part_n of_o this_o power_n over_o his_o own_o subject_n though_o with_o some_o limitation_n and_o though_o the_o pope_n shall_v take_v it_o whole_o to_o himself_o and_o from_o other_o bishop_n what_o be_v this_o against_o indulgence_n do_v it_o alter_v the_o nature_n of_o they_o because_o the_o pope_n give_v they_o either_o more_o by_o himself_o or_o more_o liberal_o than_o he_o do_v heretofore_o by_o other_o the_o power_n be_v in_o many_o before_o now_o it_o be_v in_o one_o that_o one_o than_o have_v more_o power_n than_o he_o have_v before_o but_o be_v it_o not_o the_o same_o kind_n of_o power_n wherefore_o the_o difference_n can_v consist_v in_o this_o but_o think_v not_o sir_n that_o i_o grant_v you_o the_o pope_n power_n to_o be_v more_o now_o then_o at_o that_o time_n it_o be_v nor_o less_o than_o they_o now_o it_o be_v it_o be_v the_o same_o of_o this_o power_n as_o of_o all_o other_o his_o power_n of_o bind_v &_o lose_v whereof_o this_o be_v one_o branch_n which_o do_v ever_o extend_v over_o the_o whole_a church_n over_o all_o pastor_n and_o all_o and_o every_o one_o of_o
their_o subject_n though_o he_o do_v permit_v the_o use_n thereof_o to_o other_o some_o time_n more_o sometime_o less_o according_a to_o the_o difference_n of_o time_n place_n and_o person_n but_o this_o of_o the_o extent_n of_o the_o pope_n power_n in_o this_o kind_n be_v not_o a_o matter_n for_o this_o place_n but_o it_o pertain_v to_o that_o disputation_n of_o the_o pope_n authority_n in_o general_n it_o be_v enough_o here_o if_o we_o prove_v the_o same_o power_n and_o use_v of_o give_v indulgence_n now_o as_o be_v in_o most_o ancient_a time_n as_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n declare_v and_o you_o yourself_o confess_v in_o as_o much_o as_o you_o grant_v that_o indulgence_n and_o pardon_n be_v grant_v by_o the_o bishop_n then_o which_o we_o prove_v to_o be_v the_o same_o now_o for_o neither_o do_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n stand_v say_v who_o have_v more_o or_o who_o have_v less_o of_o that_o power_n for_o that_o be_v needless_a the_o question_n be_v with_o haeretique_n who_o deny_v the_o power_n whole_o to_o be_v in_o god_n church_n 5._o the_o difference_n then_o between_o our_o indulgence_n and_o that_o of_o the_o primitive_a church_n be_v not_o in_o this_o that_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o grant_v it_o wherein_o they_o you_o may_v say_v as_o you_o seem_v indeed_o to_o say_v that_o it_o consist_v in_o this_o that_o we_o be_v by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n which_o we_o term_v the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o their_o be_v a_o free_a relaxation_n without_o any_o such_o regard_n to_o this_o treasure_n but_o the_o difference_n can_v also_o be_v in_o this_o for_o the_o bishop_n power_n whereby_o he_o do_v pardon_v then_o be_v ground_v in_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n for_o what_o he_o do_v he_o do_v in_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n as_o s._n paul_n say_v of_o himself_o in_o forgive_a the_o corinthian_a neither_o do_v he_o forgive_v the_o guilt_n of_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n whole_o gratis_o or_o free_o without_o any_o manner_n of_o satisfaction_n to_o the_o justice_n of_o almighty_a god_n in_o as_o much_o at_o lest_o as_o these_o penance_n be_v impose_v for_o satisfaction_n for_o the_o fault_n in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n alsoe_o this_o i_o say_v the_o bishop_n neither_o do_v nor_o can_v do_v for_o christ_n himself_o do_v not_o forgive_v sin_n so_o but_o by_o shed_v of_o his_o blood_n for_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v in_o lege_fw-la sine_fw-la sanguine_fw-la non_fw-la fit_a remissio_fw-la in_o the_o law_n there_o be_v no_o forgiveness_n without_o blood_n 9.22_o heb._n 9.22_o whereby_o the_o holy_a apostle_n prove_v that_o without_o the_o shed_n of_o christ_n blood_n there_o be_v no_o remission_n of_o sin_n and_o all_o forgiveness_n of_o sin_n as_o well_o for_o the_o guilt_n as_o punishment_n be_v dependent_a thereof_o wherefore_o what_o the_o bishop_n do_v forgive_v in_o this_o manner_n they_o do_v forgive_v by_o application_n of_o christ_n his_o merit_n now_o these_o merit_n be_v not_o new_a but_o the_o former_a merit_n of_o his_o life_n and_o passion_n for_o christ_n do_v consummate_v all_o by_o one_o entire_a oblation_n of_o himself_o as_o s._n paul_n say_v 10.14_o heb._n 10.14_o if_o then_o it_o be_v by_o virtue_n of_o those_o merit_n then_o must_v they_o needs_o lie_v in_o store_n ready_a to_o be_v apply_v to_o man_n as_o they_o do_v dispose_v themselves_o to_o receive_v the_o fruit_n of_o they_o and_o the_o pastor_n please_v to_o dispense_v they_o and_o why_o then_o may_v not_o christ_n merit_n lie_v thus_o in_o store_n for_o the_o need_n of_o all_o man_n be_v compare_v to_o a_o common_a treasure_n and_o be_v call_v by_o that_o name_n so_o far_o forth_o then_o as_o those_o pardon_n be_v ground_v in_o christ_n merit_n or_o grant_v by_o application_n of_o they_o to_o the_o penitent_a there_o be_v no_o difference_n between_o they_o and_o we_o 6._o now_o for_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n you_o seem_v to_o say_v that_o they_o have_v no_o part_n in_o those_o indulgence_n that_o be_v those_o indulgence_n be_v not_o give_v by_o application_n of_o the_o merit_n of_o the_o saint_n but_o therein_o you_o be_v also_o mistake_v sir_n humphrey_n for_o even_o in_o that_o place_n of_o saint_n paul_n wherein_o you_o allow_v he_o to_o speak_v of_o indulce_n he_o say_v he_o do_v forgive_v the_o corithian_a not_o only_o in_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n but_o for_o their_o sake_n also_o which_o import_v the_o prayer_n and_o desert_n of_o saint_n to_o have_v some_o place_n in_o the_o bestow_n of_o that_o indulgence_n and_o so_o likewise_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n as_o you_o can_v but_o know_v for_o martyr_n that_o have_v make_v a_o good_a confession_n of_o their_o faith_n and_o endure_v torment_n for_o the_o same_o to_o make_v intercession_n to_o the_o bishop_n for_o release_n part_n of_o the_o punishment_n dew_n to_o other_o who_o out_o of_o weakness_n fail_v therein_o and_o what_o be_v this_o but_o by_o apply_v the_o superaboundant_a merit_n of_o the_o one_o to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o the_o other_o and_o that_o this_o be_v not_o by_o way_n of_o impetration_n or_o favour_n only_o at_o the_o bishop_n hand_n but_o by_o application_n of_o the_o very_a martyr_n merit_n appear_v by_o tertullian_n 12._o tertull._n lib._n de_fw-la put_fw-mi cap._n 12._o who_o be_v become_v now_o a_o haeretique_n do_v reprehend_v that_o custom_n say_v that_o a_o martyr_n merit_n be_v little_a enough_o for_o himself_o without_o have_v any_o surplusage_n to_o help_v other_o withal_o wherein_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o seem_v to_o deny_v this_o application_n if_o man_n have_v to_o spare_v of_o their_o own_o satisfaction_n as_o no_o question_n many_o and_o almost_o all_o great_a saint_n have_v for_o though_o they_o may_v continual_o as_o long_o as_o they_o be_v in_o this_o world_n increase_v in_o grace_n and_o merit_n for_o so_o much_o as_o pertain_v to_o essential_a merit_n without_o have_v to_o spare_v but_o rather_o 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sake_n he_o then_o lead_v the_o same_o life_n still_o 20._o 30._o 40._o 50._o 60._o year_n more_o as_o many_o have_v do_v what_o shall_v become_v of_o all_o that_o satisfaction_n which_o be_v over_o and_o above_o for_o that_o sin_n or_o sin_n which_o he_o commit_v before_o it_o do_v not_o perish_v nor_o pass_v without_o fruit_n though_o not_o of_o he_o yet_o of_o other_o at_o least_o who_o be_v member_n of_o the_o same_o mystical_a body_n with_o he_o so_o than_o some_o man_n have_v merit_n superaboundant_a to_o this_o effect_n and_o these_o merit_n may_v be_v communicate_v to_o other_o member_n of_o the_o same_o body_n and_o these_o merit_n be_v not_o lose_v nor_o forget_v by_o almighty_a god_n though_o they_o be_v not_o apply_v present_o why_o may_v not_o they_o then_o be_v say_v to_o lie_v in_o deposito_fw-la as_o money_n in_o a_o treasury_n 7._o in_o this_o therefore_o be_v not_o the_o difference_n between_o our_o indulgence_n and_o those_o which_o you_o allow_v wherein_o then_o i_o see_v not_o unless_o it_o be_v that_o we_o extend_v our_o indulgence_n to_o the_o dead_a as_o indeed_o you_o seem_v to_o make_v it_o in_o part_n to_o this_o i_o may_v answer_v first_o that_o it_o be_v another_o controversy_n or_o another_o point_n at_o least_o of_o the_o same_o controversy_n for_o indulgence_n be_v apply_v in_o a_o different_a manner_n to_o the_o live_n and_o the_o dead_a and_o that_o definition_n which_o you_o give_v that_o indulgence_n be_v a_o absolution_n from_o the_o guilt_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n do_v not_o pertain_v to_o the_o dead_a for_o absolution_n be_v a_o juridical_a act_n to_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o superior_a and_o judge_v towards_o a_o inferior_a and_o a_o subject_n be_v under_o his_o power_n which_o the_o soul_n in_o purgatory_n be_v
most_o strong_a argument_n of_o antiquity_n that_o it_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n time_n out_o of_o mind_n and_o of_o consent_n that_o no_o man_n be_v find_v to_o have_v speak_v against_o it_o but_o only_o know_v haeretique_n such_o as_o the_o waldense_n who_o be_v the_o first_o impugner_n of_o indulgence_n 1_o bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr indulg_n cap._n 1_o therefore_o you_o be_v still_o out_o of_o your_o bias_n when_o you_o think_v to_o prove_v the_o novelty_n of_o our_o doctrine_n by_o our_o want_n of_o testimony_n of_o antiquity_n for_o though_o we_o have_v such_o testimony_n for_o superaboundant_a proof_n yet_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o such_o a_o thing_n be_v thaught_v and_o practise_v in_o catholic_a church_n without_o any_o memory_n when_o it_o begin_v for_o that_o be_v s._n augustine_n rule_n continual_o to_o prove_v a_o thing_n not_o only_o ancient_a but_o even_o apostolical_a 10._o but_o now_o to_o come_v to_o your_o author_n in_o particular_a you_o bring_v durand_n in_o the_o first_o place_n say_v that_o there_o can_v be_v little_o say_v of_o certainty_n concern_v indulgence_n 2._o ap_fw-mi bell._n lib._n 1._o de_fw-fr indulg_n cap._n 2._o whereto_o i_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v true_a durand_n do_v not_o speak_v so_o constant_o and_o resolute_o of_o the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o consist_v of_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o saint_n whereon_o indulgence_n be_v partly_o ground_v but_o he_o be_v far_o from_o any_o haeretical_a and_o pertinacious_a denial_n thereof_o much_o less_o of_o indulgence_n for_o suppose_v they_o as_o a_o thing_n most_o certain_a he_o dispute_v theological_a question_n of_o they_o as_o other_o divine_n of_o his_o time_n do_v and_o make_v this_o the_o first_o question_n 3._o dur._n in_o 4._o do_v 20._o q._n 3._o a_o aliquid_fw-la valeant_fw-la indulgentiae_fw-la whether_o indulgence_n avail_v any_o thing_n after_o the_o manner_n of_o school_n he_o put_v two_o argument_n against_o they_o in_o the_o first_o place_n and_o then_o come_v with_o his_o argument_n sed_fw-la contra_fw-la agree_v for_o the_o most_o part_n with_o his_o conclusion_n and_o agree_v express_o in_o this_o place_n he_o say_v thus_o in_o contrarium_fw-la est_fw-la generalis_fw-la consuetudo_fw-la &_o doctrina_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la quae_fw-la contineret_fw-la falsitatem_fw-la nisi_fw-la per_fw-la indulgentias_fw-la dimitteretur_fw-la aliquid_fw-la de_fw-la poena_fw-la peccatori_fw-la debita_fw-la on_o the_o contrary_n be_v the_o general_a custom_n and_o doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n which_o will_v contain_v falsehood_n if_o some_o thing_n of_o the_o punishment_n dew_n to_o a_o sinner_n shall_v not_o be_v forgive_v by_o indulgence_n and_o then_o have_v set_v down_o his_o resolution_n that_o there_o can_v be_v much_o say_v of_o certain_a because_o neither_o the_o scripture_n make_v mention_n of_o they_o nor_o some_o holy_a father_n who_o he_o there_o name_v yet_o he_o conclude_v that_o in_o speak_v of_o indulgence_n the_o common_a manner_n be_v to_o be_v follow_v and_o so_o go_v on_o with_o other_o question_n per_fw-la quem_fw-la modum_fw-la valeant_fw-la ex_fw-la qua_fw-la causa_fw-la vaeleant_fw-la quis_fw-la eas_fw-la possit_fw-la concedere_fw-la in_o what_o manner_n they_o avail_v out_o of_o what_o cause_n who_o can_v grant_v they_o etc._n etc._n nay_o and_o for_o the_o treasure_n of_o the_o church_n though_o by_o way_n of_o theological_a dispute_n in_o one_o place_n he_o make_v some_o doubt_n of_o it_o yet_o in_o other_o he_o speak_v plain_o and_o clear_o in_o these_o word_n 3._o dur._n 4._o do_v 20._o q._n 3._o est_fw-la in_o ecclesia_fw-la etc._n etc._n there_o be_v in_o the_o church_n a_o spiritual_a treasure_n of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o saint_n who_o endure_v much_o great_a torment_n than_o their_o sin_n deserve_v and_o therefore_o the_o church_n may_v out_o of_o this_o treasure_n communicate_v to_o one_o or_o more_o what_o may_v be_v sufficient_a to_o satisfy_v for_o their_o sin_n either_o in_o part_n or_o in_o whole_a according_a as_o shall_v please_v the_o church_n to_o communicate_v this_o treasure_n more_o or_o less_o which_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o the_o communication_n of_o the_o pain_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o saint_n to_o we_o to_o satisfy_v for_o our_o sin_n wherefore_o indulgence_n avail_v by_o way_n of_o solution_n or_o payment_n in_o as_o much_o as_o by_o christ_n and_o his_o saint_n the_o pain_n dew_n to_o we_o be_v pay_v so_o far_o this_o author_n most_o clear_o true_o &_o catholique_o though_o after_o again_o he_o somewhat_o doubt_v of_o this_o treasure_n as_o i_o say_v before_o in_o as_o much_o as_o it_o consist_v of_o the_o satisfaction_n of_o saint_n now_o for_o the_o very_a place_n which_o you_o allege_v you_o commit_v a_o fault_n in_o make_v it_o seem_v as_o if_o he_o say_v the_o ancient_a father_n in_o general_n do_v not_o make_v any_o mention_n of_o indulgence_n and_o that_o he_o do_v name_n s._n ambrose_n s._n hilar._n s._n aug._n and_o s._n hierome_n only_o for_o example_n sake_n whereas_o it_o be_v far_o otherwise_o for_o present_o after_o he_o name_v s._n greg._n and_o say_v of_o he_o that_o he_o do_v institute_v indulgence_n at_o the_o station_n in_o rome_n so_o as_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o speak_v only_o of_o those_o 4._o not_o of_o all_o the_o father_n in_o general_n and_o so_o much_o for_o durand_n 11._o as_o for_o alphonsus_n à _fw-fr castro_n another_o of_o your_o author_n he_o deni_v not_o all_o testimony_n of_o scripture_n as_o none_o of_o the_o rest_n do_v but_o only_o plain_a &_o express_v testimony_n and_o though_o he_o also_o confess_v the_o use_n of_o indulgence_n not_o to_o have_v be_v so_o much_o in_o those_o ancient_a time_n as_o since_o yet_o he_o allow_v of_o they_o so_o far_o as_o to_o condemn_v any_o man_n for_o a_o haeretique_n that_o shall_v deny_v they_o these_o be_v his_o word_n indulgent_a alph._n a_o castr_n de_fw-fr haeres_fw-la lib._n 8._o verb._n indulgent_a verum_fw-la etsi_fw-la pro_fw-la indulgentiarum_fw-la approbatione_fw-la s._n scripturae_fw-la testimonium_fw-la apertum_fw-la desit_fw-la non_fw-la tamen_fw-la ideo_fw-la contemnendae_fw-la erant_fw-la quoniam_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la catholicae_fw-la usus_fw-la a_o multis_fw-la annorum_fw-la centurijs_fw-la tantae_fw-la est_fw-la authoritatis_fw-la ut_fw-la qui_fw-la illum_fw-la contemnat_fw-la haereticus_fw-la merito_fw-la censeatur_fw-la but_o though_o there_o want_v open_a testimony_n of_o scripture_n for_o approbation_n of_o indulgence_n they_o be_v not_o therefore_o to_o be_v contemn_v because_o the_o use_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n for_o many_o hundred_o of_o year_n be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n that_o whosoever_o contemn_v the_o same_o be_v worthy_o esteem_v a_o haeretique_n and_o again_o in_o the_o same_o place_n apud_fw-la romanos_fw-la vetustissimus_fw-la praedicatur_fw-la illarum_fw-la to_o wit_n indulgentiarum_fw-la usus_fw-la ut_fw-la ex_fw-la stationibus_fw-la romae_fw-la frequentissimis_fw-la utrumque_fw-la colligi_fw-la potest_fw-la among_o the_o roman_n this_o use_n of_o indulgence_n be_v say_v to_o be_v most_o ancient_a as_o may_v be_v somewhat_o gather_v by_o the_o most_o frequent_a station_n at_o rome_n look_v you_o sir_n humphrey_n what_o a_o witness_n you_o have_v bring_v for_o yourself_o do_v you_o not_o see_v how_o new_a he_o make_v this_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n confess_v even_o the_o use_n of_o they_o to_o be_v most_o ancient_a and_o of_o many_o hundred_o year_n stand_v nay_o do_v he_o not_o in_o the_o same_o place_n acknowledge_v that_o s._n gregory_n the_o great_a and_o first_o pope_n of_o that_o name_n do_v grant_v some_o indulgence_n which_o be_v above_o a_o thousand_o year_n do_v you_o not_o hear_v how_o much_o he_o give_v to_o the_o church_n acknowledge_v the_o practice_n thereof_o to_o be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n that_o whosoever_o deny_v the_o truth_n of_o a_o thing_n so_o practise_v be_v worthy_o to_o be_v count_v a_o haeretique_n what_o think_v you_o now_o of_o yourself_o to_o be_v call_v haeretique_n out_o of_o your_o own_o mouth_n as_o it_o be_v that_o be_v out_o of_o your_o author_n mouth_n who_o you_o bring_v for_o you_o for_o castro_n his_o authority_n then_o though_o it_o have_v be_v more_o for_o you_o then_o it_o be_v in_o this_o matter_n of_o indulgence_n yet_o you_o have_v be_v better_o have_v let_v it_o alone_o then_o to_o have_v it_o with_o such_o a_o condition_n the_o like_o a_o man_n may_v say_v of_o every_o author_n you_o bring_v here_o for_o the_o same_o purpose_n but_o that_o it_o be_v needless_a to_o stand_v so_o long_o upon_o examine_v every_o one_o in_o particular_a 12._o now_o after_o such_o good_a authoritye_n as_o you_o bring_v against_o indulgence_n you_o think_v you_o may_v with_o authority_n prate_v very_o free_o of_o the_o pope_n sell_v of_o indulgence_n and_o bring_v money_n to_o his_o own_o coffer_n by_o they_o but_o to_o that_o i_o need_v make_v no_o other_o answer_n but_o that_o it_o be_v such_o
and_o you_o minister_n 14._o basil_n see_v tert._n the_o praescr_n cap._n 21._o epiph._n chrisost_o basil_n the_o particular_a testimony_n you_o may_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n to_o who_o i_o remit_v you_o only_o for_o s._n aug._n i_o can_v omit_v to_o make_v more_o particular_a mention_n of_o he_o in_o this_o place_n by_o reason_n of_o a_o certain_a sentence_n which_o you_o have_v bring_v in_o the_o end_n of_o this_o §_o as_o alsoe_o of_o every_o one_o of_o the_o 6._o 7._o damascen_n &_o alios_fw-la ap_fw-mi bell._n de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 7._o forego_v §§_o still_o conclude_v with_o this_o say_n of_o that_o holy_a father_n sive_fw-la de_fw-la christo_fw-la five_o etc._n etc._n whether_o concern_v christ_n or_o concern_v the_o church_n or_o concern_v any_o other_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o our_o faith_n i_o will_v not_o say_v we_o who_o be_v no_o way_n to_o be_v compare_v to_o he_o that_o say_v but_o if_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n shall_v preach_v unto_o you_o beside_o what_o you_o have_v receive_v in_o the_o legal_a and_o evangelical_a scripture_n let_v he_o be_v anathema_n and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o for_o the_o most_o part_n add_v the_o particular_a controversy_n of_o that_o §_o as_o for_o example_n in_o this_o of_o indulgence_n you_o say_v if_o we_o or_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n preach_v unto_o you_o any_o thing_n concern_v the_o faith_n of_o indulgence_n beside_o that_o you_o have_v receive_v etc._n etc._n and_o so_o in_o every_o of_o the_o other_o particular_a point_n whereby_o you_o will_v persuade_v your_o reader_n that_o saint_n aug._n will_v have_v nothing_o believe_v but_o what_o can_v be_v prove_v by_o express_a word_n of_o scripture_n wherein_o i_o appeal_v to_o your_o own_o conscience_n as_o bad_a as_o it_o be_v whither_o this_o be_v not_o damnable_a dishonest_a deal_v both_o towards_o s._n aug._n and_o towards_o your_o reader_n for_o if_o you_o have_v read_v s._n aug._n as_o you_o pretend_v how_o can_v you_o be_v ignorant_a how_o many_o point_n of_o faith_n he_o do_v defend_v against_o several_a haeretique_n either_o only_a or_o chief_o by_o the_o tradition_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n 23._o de_fw-fr bap._n câ—nt_fw-la donat._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 7._o &_o lib._n 5._o cap._n 23._o as_o single_a baptism_n against_o the_o donatist_n consubstantiality_n of_o the_o son_n divinity_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o even_o unbegottenesse_n of_o the_o father_n the_o first_o person_n in_o trinity_n against_o the_o arrian_n and_o the_o baptism_n of_o child_n against_o pelagius_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a 118._o cont._n maxi._n lib._n 3._o cap._n 3._o &_o ep_n 174._o de_fw-fr genes_n ad_fw-la literam_fw-la lib._n 10._o cap._n 23._o de_fw-fr cura_fw-la pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la ep_v 118._o observation_n of_o the_o feast_n of_o easter_n ascension_n whitsuntide_n and_o the_o like_a nay_o this_o truth_n be_v so_o ground_v with_o he_o that_o he_o count_v it_o most_o insolent_a madness_n to_o dispute_v against_o the_o common_a opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v of_o so_o great_a authority_n with_o he_o as_o that_o he_o say_v in_o one_o place_n that_o when_o we_o follow_v it_o we_o follow_v the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n these_o be_v his_o word_n scripturarum_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la tenetur_fw-la veritas_fw-la cum_fw-la id_fw-la facimus_fw-la etc._n etc._n 33._o lib._n 1._o cont_n crescon_n cap._n 33._o the_o truth_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v hold_v by_o we_o when_o we_o do_v that_o which_o seem_v good_a to_o the_o whole_a church_n which_o church_n the_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n themselves_o do_v commend_v that_o because_o the_o holy_a scripture_n can_v deceive_v whosoever_o be_v afraid_a to_o be_v deceive_v by_o the_o obscurity_n of_o this_o question_n may_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o church_n the_o which_o the_o holy_a scripture_n without_o any_o ambiguity_n do_v demonstrate_v unto_o we_o so_o he_o there_o and_o that_o it_o may_v far_o appear_v that_o to_o deny_v this_o authority_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n be_v not_o only_o to_o deny_v the_o authority_n of_o scripture_n but_o even_o of_o christ_n himself_o i_o can_v here_o omit_v to_o note_v a_o place_n of_o the_o same_o saint_n his_o book_n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la where_o he_o treat_v this_o very_a point_n very_o particular_o and_o excellent_o so_o as_o to_o take_v away_o all_o doubt_n of_o his_o opinion_n therein_o for_o here_o he_o do_v of_o purpose_n intend_v to_o show_v that_o where_o plain_a proof_n of_o scripture_n be_v want_v we_o must_v have_v recourse_n to_o the_o church_n prove_v it_o thus_o by_o occasion_n of_o the_o question_n of_o rebaptisation_n and_o suppose_v that_o there_o be_v no_o proof_n of_o scripture_n either_o way_n puto_fw-la si_fw-la aliquis_fw-la sapiens_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o think_v say_v he_o if_o there_o be_v any_o wise_a man_n of_o who_o our_o saviour_n have_v give_v testimony_n to_o wit_n 22._o aug._n de_fw-fr vnit._n eccle_n cap_n 22._o of_o his_o wisdom_n and_o that_o he_o shall_v be_v ask_v in_o this_o question_n we_o shall_v not_o doubt_v to_o do_v what_o he_o shall_v say_v lest_o we_o shall_v seem_v to_o gainsay_v not_o he_o so_o much_o as_o christ_n by_o who_o testimony_n he_o be_v commend_v now_o christ_n bear_v witness_n of_o his_o church_n and_o a_o little_a after_o again_o he_o say_v that_o whosoever_o refuse_v to_o follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n do_v resist_v our_o saviour_n himself_o who_o by_o his_o testimony_n commend_v the_o church_n by_o which_o discourse_n and_o comparison_n any_o man_n may_v see_v that_o in_o s._n augustine_n judgement_n the_o church_n word_n be_v warrant_v by_o christ_n as_o much_o as_o if_o he_o shall_v have_v name_v any_o one_o man_n in_o particular_a who_o word_n he_o will_v make_v good_a and_o who_o consequent_o we_o shall_v follow_v &_o that_o by_o refuse_v or_o 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to_o signify_v more_o than_o be_v write_v as_o you_o will_v understand_v it_o but_o to_o signify_v the_o same_o that_o contra_fw-la against_o or_o contrary_n to_o what_o be_v write_v for_o otherwise_o there_o will_v be_v no_o sense_n in_o his_o say_n or_o opposition_n consist_v of_o two_o member_n with_o difference_n of_o the_o one_o from_o the_o other_o which_o to_o be_v his_o meaning_n be_v yet_o more_o plain_a by_o his_o whole_a discourse_n which_o be_v to_o show_v what_o manner_n of_o knowledge_n or_o private_a revelation_n be_v to_o be_v admit_v &_o indeed_o there_o he_o allow_v of_o such_o as_o it_o not_o against_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n contra_fw-la regulam_fw-la catholicae_fw-la fidei_fw-la &_o reprehend_v only_o in_o haeretique_n such_o kind_n of_o knowledge_n as_o be_v also_o contrary_a or_o against_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n and_o then_o object_v
i_o take_v you_o in_o earnest_n as_o you_o seem_v to_o mean_v it_o and_o ask_v what_o certainty_n you_o or_o any_o protestant_n have_v or_o can_v have_v that_o you_o be_v christian_n if_o you_o think_v that_o your_o christianity_n depend_v upon_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n if_o you_o think_v it_o do_v not_o as_o it_o be_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o puritan_n indeed_o that_o baptism_n be_v not_o any_o cause_n of_o grace_n but_o only_o a_o sign_n or_o seal_n of_o the_o adoption_n which_o they_o receive_v by_o carnal_a propagation_n from_o their_o faithful_a parent_n and_o it_o seem_v also_o you_o by_o what_o you_o say_v both_o here_o and_o before_o in_o your_o 4._o §_o of_o sacrament_n in_o the_o definition_n of_o a_o sacrament_n if_o i_o say_v you_o think_v so_o than_o i_o confess_v you_o need_v not_o fear_v the_o minister_n want_n of_o intention_n but_o that_o pertain_v to_o another_o disputation_n but_o yet_o you_o have_v as_o little_a certainty_n or_o less_o of_o your_o 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what_o then_o what_o be_v this_o to_o many_o other_o point_n which_o we_o say_v can_v be_v know_v by_o only_a scripture_n be_v this_o a_o good_a consequence_n the_o church_n be_v know_v by_o only_a scripture_n ergo_fw-la all_o thing_n else_o and_o even_o scripture_n itself_o be_v know_v only_o by_o scripture_n sure_o no_o and_o yet_o this_o consequence_n must_v be_v good_a or_o else_o sir_n humphrey_n your_o argument_n be_v not_o good_a beside_o these_o word_n may_v be_v understand_v of_o the_o scripture_n compare_v with_o other_o write_n that_o be_v that_o the_o church_n be_v know_v to_o we_o only_o by_o scripture_n not_o by_o other_o write_n whereof_o either_o none_o speak_v so_o clear_o of_o the_o church_n or_o none_o be_v like_o thereunto_o for_o authority_n which_o yet_o do_v not_o exclude_v other_o proof_n or_o mark_n of_o the_o church_n and_o indeed_o the_o church_n be_v most_o know_v and_o best_a prove_v out_o of_o scripture_n of_o any_o point_n of_o our_o faith_n as_o may_v appear_v by_o this_o that_o s._n aug._n prove_v the_o same_o so_o notable_o out_o of_o scripture_n only_o against_o the_o donatist_n in_o a_o particular_a book_n of_o that_o matter_n 30._o de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccle_n aug._n in_o psal_n 30._o and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v the_o scripture_n speak_v more_o plain_o of_o the_o church_n then_o of_o christ_n himself_o because_o the_o holy_a ghost_n foresee_v it_o be_v more_o to_o be_v contradict_v and_o what_o may_v not_o these_o word_n be_v take_v somewhat_o in_o the_o same_o sense_n but_o this_o shall_v serve_v for_o that_o place_n 3._o you_o come_v next_o with_o two_o place_n of_o saint_n aug._n whereof_o one_o be_v answer_v before_o and_o it_o be_v only_o where_o you_o tell_v we_o he_o say_v that_o many_o be_v torment_v with_o the_o devil_n who_o be_v worship_v by_o man_n on_o earth_n to_o this_o bellarmine_n say_v you_o answer_v that_o perhaps_o it_o be_v not_o s._n augustine_n make_v you_o reader_n believe_v as_o if_o bell._n neither_o give_v other_o answer_n nor_o any_o reason_n of_o this_o answer_n whereas_o he_o do_v both_o his_o reason_n why_o he_o think_v it_o not_o saint_n augustine_n be_v both_o because_o he_o can_v never_o find_v any_o such_o place_n in_o he_o &_o it_o be_v like_a he_o shall_v find_v it_o if_o it_o be_v there_o he_o have_v be_v so_o diligent_a a_o reader_n of_o s._n augu._n as_o appear_v by_o his_o work_n he_o be_v 9_o bell._n de_fw-fr sanct._n beat_v lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o as_o alsoe_o because_o no_o haeretique_n that_o object_v it_o do_v note_v the_o place_n where_o it_o be_v to_o be_v find_v as_o they_o be_v wont_v to_o do_v in_o their_o other_o objection_n and_o it_o be_v like_a will_v do_v in_o this_o if_o they_o can_v find_v it_o but_o because_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o be_v a_o man_n so_o well_o read_v in_o s._n aug._n and_o stand_v so_o upon_o answer_n of_o this_o place_n do_v you_o but_o tell_v we_o where_o it_o be_v and_o you_o shall_v then_o see_v what_o we_o will_v say_v unto_o you_o mean_v while_o look_v a_o little_a better_o in_o bellar._n again_o and_o tell_v we_o whether_o there_o be_v not_o 3._o or_o 4._o other_o answer_n see_v also_o before_o cap._n 10._o the_o other_o place_n of_o saint_n augu._n be_v as_o you_o say_v touch_v the_o pope_n supremacy_n because_o s._n augu._n in_o those_o word_n of_o our_o saviour_n thou_o be_v peter_n and_o upon_o this_o rock_n will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n take_v not_o peter_n and_o this_o rock_n to_o be_v all_o one_o but_o the_o rock_n to_o be_v our_o saviour_n himself_o and_o petrus_n to_o be_v a_o derivative_n only_o of_o petra_n to_o which_o you_o tell_v we_o stapleton_n make_v answer_n that_o it_o be_v lapsus_fw-la humanus_fw-la for_o want_v of_o knowledge_n of_o the_o greek_a and_o cause_v by_o the_o diversity_n of_o the_o two_o language_n latin_a and_o greek_a which_o answer_n though_o you_o relate_v in_o a_o slight_a fashion_n as_o if_o you_o take_v it_o to_o be_v in_o sufficient_a yet_o you_o neither_o do_v nor_o indeed_o can_v say_v against_o it_o if_o you_o know_v greek_n and_o latin_a or_o if_o you_o do_v not_o go_v but_o to_o some_o of_o your_o minister_n and_o get_v they_o to_o look_v in_o their_o own_o greek_a lexicon_n i_o mean_v set_v out_o by_o haeretique_n and_o see_v whether_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d be_v a_o adiective_n and_o a_o derivative_n of_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d or_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o a_o substantive_a signify_v the_o very_a same_o thing_n and_o let_v they_o look_v yet_o far_o into_o the_o original_a tongue_n itself_o to_o wit_n the_o syriake_n wherein_o our_o saviour_n speak_v 25._o lib._n 1._o ro_n pontif_n cap._n 25._o and_o see_v whither_o they_o be_v not_o more_o the_o same_o to_o wit_n the_o only_a word_n cephas_n in_o both_o place_n on_o the_o other_o side_n it_o be_v well_o know_a saint_n augu._n profess_v no_o great_a skill_n in_o greek_a as_o he_o witness_v of_o himself_o in_o many_o place_n 165._o aug._n in_o psal_n count_v partem_fw-la donat_n &_o ep_v 165._o beside_o saint_n augu._n do_v not_o bring_v this_o exposition_n to_o derogate_v from_o saint_n peter_n primacy_n which_o he_o confess_v in_o 20._o place_n as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o where_o for_o proof_n thereof_o he_o use_v the_o very_a word_n petra_n which_o here_o he_o distinguish_v from_o petrus_n call_v the_o seat_n of_o peter_n this_o rook_n numerate_v sacerdotes_fw-la ab_fw-la ipsa_fw-la sede_fw-la petri_n ipsa_fw-la est_fw-la petra_fw-la quam_fw-la non_fw-la vincunt_fw-la superbae_fw-la inferorum_fw-la porte_fw-fr reckon_v say_v he_o to_o the_o donatist_n the_o priest_n from_o even_o the_o seat_n of_o peter_n that_o be_v the_o rock_n which_o the_o proud_a gate_n of_o hell_n do_v not_o overcome_v how_o then_o do_v he_o deny_v s._n peter_n primacy_n and_o perpetuity_n of_o his_o sea_n again_o sir_n humphrey_n you_o may_v find_v other_o answer_n for_o saint_n augu._n himself_o in_o his_o retractation_n put_v both_o the_o explication_n wherein_o the_o word_n petrae_fw-la be_v speak_v of_o christ_n and_o of_o peter_n leave_v the_o choice_n to_o the_o reader_n allow_v both_o interpretation_n which_o you_o do_v not_o because_o one_o be_v flat_a against_o you_o whereas_o we_o do_v not_o reject_v either_o as_o be_v against_o we_o but_o only_o we_o show_v the_o one_o not_o to_o be_v so_o good_a because_o it_o stand_v not_o so_o with_o the_o original_a tongue_n which_o that_o saint_n be_v not_o so_o well_o skill_v in_o and_o literal_a sense_n of_o scripture_n which_o no_o haeretique_n can_v deny_v 4._o the_o 3._o place_n be_v out_o of_o s._n ignatius_n for_o proof_n of_o communion_n in_o both_o kind_n 26_o bellar._n de_fw-fr euchar._n lib._n 4._o cap._n 26_o one_o cup_n be_v distribute_v to_o all_o to_o which_o you_o say_v bellarmine_n make_v answer_n that_o in_o the_o latin_a book_n it_o be_v not_o find_v that_o one_o cup_n be_v give_v to_o all_o but_o for_o all_o against_o which_o you_o can_v say_v 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this_o to_o your_o purpose_n or_o what_o can_v you_o except_v against_o it_o i_o see_v not_o nor_o any_o man_n else_o nor_o even_o yourself_o i_o think_v if_o you_o mark_v what_o you_o say_v but_o why_o shall_v you_o allege_v ribera_n the_o jesuit_n as_o if_o he_o be_v the_o only_a man_n that_o do_v condemn_v he_o see_v in_o bellarm._n the_o script_n eccles_n whether_o he_o be_v not_o censure_v of_o error_n by_o s._n basil_n and_o condemn_v of_o haeresy_n and_o reckon_v among_o haeretique_n by_o s._n epiphanius_n as_o for_o s._n hierome_n it_o be_v well_o know_v how_o deep_o he_o condemn_v he_o who_o also_o translate_v one_o of_o origen_n work_n full_a of_o error_n to_o that_o end_n to_o desplay_v they_o and_o even_o in_o the_o 5._o general_n council_n to_o say_v nothing_o of_o particular_a man_n there_o be_v anathema_n say_v to_o he_o and_o his_o writing_n even_o as_o to_o arius_n macedonius_n eunomius_n nestorius_n and_o eutyches_n and_o yet_o you_o can_v find_v no_o body_n that_o 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nor_o that_o to_o be_v valencia_n his_o only_a answer_n but_o the_o last_o only_o of_o 3._o or_o 4._o beside_o other_o man_n answer_n 7._o the_o 6._o be_v epiphanius_n touch_v image_n of_o who_o you_o say_v out_o of_o a_o certain_a epistle_n of_o he_o he_o find_v a_o veil_n at_o the_o entrance_n of_o the_o church_n represent_v the_o image_n of_o christ_n or_o some_o saint_n which_o he_o cut_v in_o piece_n and_o withal_o command_v that_o none_o such_o shall_v be_v hereafter_o suffer_v to_o hang_v there_o to_o this_o you_o say_v sanders_n and_o baronius_n make_v answer_n that_o they_o be_v not_o s._n epiphanius_n his_o word_n but_o the_o word_n of_o some_o counterfaict_n &_o image-breaker_n as_o if_o these_o two_o be_v the_o only_a man_n that_o say_v so_o or_o as_o if_o they_o say_v so_o only_o because_o it_o be_v against_o the_o worship_n of_o image_n without_o far_a reason_n of_o their_o say_n or_o as_o if_o that_o be_v their_o only_a answer_n but_o in_o all_o these_o you_o fail_v foul_o for_o it_o be_v not_o the_o answer_n of_o these_o two_o alone_a but_o the_o common_a of_o almost_o all_o learned_a man_n nor_o the_o only_a answer_n nor_o upon_o any_o one_o or_o more_o man_n bare_a word_n that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o only_a answer_n may_v be_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n who_o bring_v two_o more_o 9_o bell._n lib._n 2._o the_o imag_n cap._n 9_o one_o out_o of_o waldensis_n who_o suppose_v it_o to_o have_v be_v so_o do_v by_o epiphanius_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o anthropomorphit_n haeretique_n reign_v at_o that_o time_n the_o other_o be_v of_o marianus_n victorius_n &_o some_o other_o say_v that_o that_o be_v not_o the_o image_n of_o christ_n or_o any_o saint_n but_o of_o some_o profane_a man_n hang_v there_o in_o the_o church_n as_o if_o it_o have_v be_v the_o picture_n of_o some_o saint_n that_o be_v no_o fit_a place_n for_o it_o by_o occasion_n whereof_o i_o can_v but_o note_v your_o corrupt_a cite_n of_o this_o testimony_n as_o you_o call_v it_o of_o 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sense_n for_o ask_v any_o schoolboy_n whether_o cùm_fw-la with_o the_o subiunctive_a and_o indicative_a mood_n be_v all_o one_o the_o thing_n which_o you_o leave_v out_o be_v s._n hierom_n authority_n which_o bellarmine_n allege_v thus_o see_v say_v he_o it_o be_v evident_a as_o saint_n hiero._n speak_v that_o he_o be_v no_o man_n of_o the_o church_n these_o be_v saint_n hierom_n very_a word_n here_o than_o you_o see_v again_o that_o it_o be_v saint_n hierome_n not_o bellarmine_n alone_a that_o do_v reject_v tertullian_n nor_o be_v saint_n hierome_n alone_o of_o the_o ancient_a father_n in_o this_o opinion_n of_o he_o but_o almost_o all_o the_o father_n vincentius_n lerinensis_n say_v he_o be_v by_o his_o fall_n a_o great_a temptation_n to_o many_o 5._o vinc._n lerin_n cap._n 24._o hilar._n in_o comment_n in_o math._n cap._n 5._o and_o saint_n hilarius_n say_v there_o that_o tertullian_n late_a error_n do_v detract_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o authority_n from_o his_o approve_a writing_n 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word_n you_o do_v not_o cite_v canus_n right_a for_o he_o do_v not_o say_v that_o saint_n hierome_n be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n though_o that_o be_v true_a as_o i_o shall_v show_v present_o but_o thus_o have_v allege_v caietan_n saying_n that_o the_o church_n do_v follow_v s._n hierome_n in_o reckon_v the_o book_n of_o scripture_n he_o deni_v it_o thus_o for_o neither_o be_v it_o true_a say_v canus_n that_o s._n hier._n be_v the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n in_o determine_v the_o canonical_a book_n which_o be_v most_o true_a s._n hierome_n be_v not_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n but_o the_o church_n be_v his_o rule_n judith_n hier._n praef_n in_o judith_n as_o appear_v in_o that_o he_o reckon_v judith_n among_o the_o canonical_a book_n upon_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n neither_o be_v it_o all_o one_o to_o say_v s._n hierome_n be_v no_o rule_n of_o the_o church_n for_o determine_v which_o book_n be_v scripture_n which_o not_o and_o to_o say_v he_o be_v no_o rule_n of_o 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and_o there_o he_o go_v on_o specify_v even_o s._n hierome_n himself_o and_o say_v unto_o he_o that_o he_o presume_v he_o will_v not_o have_v he_o so_o whole_o approve_v of_o his_o writing_n as_o to_o think_v there_o be_v no_o error_n at_o all_o in_o they_o the_o like_a he_o have_v in_o another_o place_n show_v plain_o that_o any_o private_a doctor_n may_v err_v 3_o lib._n 2._o de_fw-fr bap._n cont_n donat._n cap._n 3_o and_o consequent_o can_v be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n yet_o for_o all_o that_o the_o authority_n of_o any_o such_o be_v very_o great_a in_o any_o thing_n wherein_o he_o agree_v with_o other_o or_o be_v not_o by_o they_o gain_v say_v for_o that_o be_v a_o token_n that_o what_o he_o say_v be_v the_o common_a tradition_n and_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v a_o sufficient_a rule_n be_v this_o then_o to_o reject_v and_o elude_v the_o father_n to_o say_v that_o one_o be_v no_o rule_n of_o faith_n if_o it_o be_v then_o do_v s._n aug._n reject_v and_o elude_v 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that_o it_o shall_v say_v whether_o of_o the_o two_o expound_v it_o right_n the_o perfection_n therefore_o of_o it_o do_v rather_o consist_v in_o the_o truth_n fullness_n of_o wisdom_n profoundness_n majesty_n gravity_n efficacy_n authority_n and_o certainty_n then_o in_o contain_v all_o thing_n express_o as_o you_o require_v &_o so_o long_o as_o it_o have_v those_o perfection_n contain_v withal_o the_o principal_a matter_n pertain_v to_o faith_n and_o teach_v we_o a_o certain_a and_o infallible_a way_n whereby_o we_o may_v come_v to_o the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o rest_n which_o be_v the_o church_n it_o can_v be_v say_v to_o be_v unperfect_a or_o to_o want_v any_o perfection_n dew_n thereunto_o and_o this_o may_v be_v answer_n sufficient_a to_o the_o rest_n of_o this_o section_n which_o be_v nothing_o but_o a_o little_a more_o of_o such_o wise_a stuff_n for_o you_o tell_v we_o we_o decline_v scripture_n as_o unperfect_a the_o father_n as_o counterfect_v the_o protestant_n as_o 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it_o against_o the_o haeretique_n which_o deny_v it_o and_o a_o little_a after_o again_o he_o go_v on_o thus_o to_o say_v nothing_o of_o this_o wisdom_n which_o you_o do_v not_o believe_v to_o be_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n there_o be_v many_o thing_n else_o which_o may_v most_o just_o hold_v i_o in_o the_o bosom_n thereof_o there_o hold_v i_o the_o consent_n of_o people_n and_o nation_n there_o hold_v i_o authority_n begin_v by_o miracle_n nourish_v by_o hope_n increase_v by_o charity_n strengthen_v by_o antiquity_n there_o hold_v i_o the_o succession_n of_o priest_n from_o the_o very_a seat_n of_o peter_n to_o who_o our_o lord_n after_o his_o resurrection_n commit_v the_o feed_n of_o his_o flock_n to_o the_o present_a bishoprique_n last_o the_o very_a name_n of_o catholic_a hold_v i_o and_o after_o again_o these_o therefore_o so_o many_o and_o so_o great_a most_o dear_a chain_n of_o the_o christian_a name_n do_v right_o hold_v a_o man_n believe_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n though_o for_o the_o slowness_n of_o our_o understanding_n or_o merit_n of_o our_o life_n truth_n do_v not_o show_v itself_o so_o very_o clear_o but_o with_o you_o that_o be_v manichee_n and_o i_o may_v say_v protestant_n or_o any_o other_o sect_n whatsoever_o where_o there_o be_v nothing_o of_o all_o these_o to_o invite_v and_o hold_v i_o there_o sound_v only_o a_o promise_n of_o truth_n thus_o far_o saint_n augustine_n very_a word_n by_o which_o any_o man_n will_v perceive_v that_o he_o make_v so_o much_o account_n of_o the_o learning_n of_o the_o multitude_n of_o people_n and_o nation_n of_o miracle_n of_o antiquity_n of_o succession_n of_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_n in_o our_o church_n which_o you_o account_v nothing_o as_o by_o they_o to_o hold_v himself_o in_o the_o bosom_n of_o that_o church_n insinuate_v withal_o that_o the_o want_n of_o they_o in_o haereticall_a congregation_n be_v sufficient_a to_o deter_v any_o man_n from_o they_o how_o much_o soever_o they_o prate_v of_o truth_n safety_n certainty_n and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o 5._o in_o grant_v we_o therefore_o these_o thing_n and_o acknowledge_v the_o want_n of_o they_o in_o your_o self_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o saint_n augustine_n you_o confess_v we_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n and_o your_o own_o a_o false_a and_o haereticall_a conventicle_n as_o likewise_o you_o do_v in_o that_o you_o make_v the_o smallness_n of_o number_n to_o be_v a_o note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n saint_n augustine_n show_v it_o to_o be_v none_o for_o whereas_o the_o donatist_n do_v brag_v thereof_o he_o confute_v they_o thus_o 7._o de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccl_n cap._n 7._o quid_fw-la est_fw-la haeretici_fw-la quod_fw-la de_fw-la paucitate_fw-la gloriamini_fw-la si_fw-la propterea_fw-la dominus_fw-la noster_fw-la jesus_n christus_n traditus_fw-la est_fw-la ad_fw-la mortem_fw-la ut_fw-la haereditate_fw-la multos_fw-la possideret_fw-la what_o be_v it_o o_o you_o haeretique_n that_o you_o brag_v of_o the_o smallness_n of_o your_o number_n if_o christ_n be_v therefore_o deliver_v up_o to_o death_n that_o he_o may_v by_o inhaeritance_n possess_v many_o and_o there_o he_o go_v on_o prove_v the_o same_o far_a out_o of_o diverse_a place_n of_o scripture_n and_o namely_o by_o 9_o or_o 10._o most_o plain_a place_n out_o of_o esay_n the_o prophet_n and_o then_o conclude_v again_o ubi_fw-la est_fw-la inquam_fw-la quod_fw-la de_fw-la paucitate_fw-la gloriamini_fw-la where_o i_o say_v be_v it_o that_o you_o brag_v of_o your_o fewne_n be_v not_o these_o the_o many_o of_o who_o it_o be_v say_v a_o little_a before_o that_o he_o shall_v possess_v many_o by_o heritage_n but_o of_o this_o the_o scripture_n be_v so_o full_a and_o so_o clear_a as_o i_o may_v well_o deny_v he_o the_o name_n of_o a_o christian_n that_o deni_v it_o wherefore_o for_o that_o place_n of_o a_o little_a flock_n which_o you_o bring_v in_o show_n only_o to_o the_o contrary_a vinc._n aug._n ep_v 50._o ad_fw-la bonif._n &_o ep_v 48._o ad_fw-la vinc._n s._n aug._n explicate_v it_o not_o of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n but_o of_o the_o good_a who_o be_v small_a in_o number_n in_o comparison_n of_o the_o wicked_a or_o of_o christ_n flock_n or_o church_n at_o that_o time_n in_o the_o beginning_n 12._o lib._n 4._o cap._n 54_o in_o luc_n 12._o and_o s._n bede_n expound_v it_o two_o way_n one_o of_o the_o small_a number_n of_o the_o elect_a in_o comparison_n of_o the_o reprobate_n the_o other_o of_o the_o church_n in_o general_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o humility_n wherein_o christ_n will_v have_v it_o to_o excel_v &_o increase_v to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n how_o much_o soever_o it_o be_v dilate_v in_o number_n quia_fw-la videlicet_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la svam_fw-la quantalibet_fw-la numerositate_fw-la iam_fw-la dilatatam_fw-la tamen_fw-la usque_fw-la ad_fw-la finem_fw-la mundi_fw-la humilitate_fw-la vult_fw-la crescere_fw-la for_o that_o place_n of_o s._n paul_n it_o patronize_v not_o your_o ignorance_n one_o iott_n for_o it_o be_v only_o mean_a of_o those_o who_o our_o saviour_n at_o first_o make_v choice_n of_o to_o preach_v his_o faith_n and_o make_v know_v his_o name_n unto_o the_o world_n who_o indeed_o be_v not_o many_o in_o number_n be_v but_o 12._o nor_o great_a in_o wisdom_n according_a to_o the_o flesh_n not_o have_v be_v bring_v up_o in_o learn_v but_o to_o mean_v trade_n as_o fish_v &_o the_o like_a nor_o mighty_a nor_o noble_a be_v but_o poor_a and_o obscure_a for_o wealth_n and_o parentage_n and_o this_o for_o a_o special_a reason_n as_o s._n ambrose_n declare_v in_o these_o word_n aduerte_n caeleste_fw-la consilium_fw-la non_fw-la sapientes_fw-la aliquos_fw-la non_fw-la divites_fw-la luc._n lib._n 5._o comment_n in_o luc._n non_fw-la nobiles_fw-la sed_fw-la piscatores_fw-la &_o publicanos_fw-la quos_fw-la dirigeret_fw-la elegit_fw-la ne_fw-la traduxisse_fw-la prudentia_fw-la ne_fw-la redemisse_fw-la divitijs_fw-la ne_fw-la potentiae_fw-la nobilitatisue_n authoritate_fw-la traxisse_fw-la aliquos_fw-la ad_fw-la svam_fw-la gratiam_fw-la videretur_fw-la ut_fw-la veritatis_fw-la ratio_fw-la non_fw-la disputationis_fw-la gratia_fw-la praevaleret_fw-la mark_v the_o heavenly_a wisdom_n he_o do_v not_o choose_v some_o wise_a or_o rich_a or_o noble_a but_o fisher_n and_o publican_n to_o send_v lest_o he_o may_v seem_v to_o have_v bring_v any_o to_o his_o grace_n by_o wile_n redeem_v they_o by_o riches_n or_o draw_v they_o by_o authority_n of_o power_n or_o nobility_n that_o reason_n of_o truth_n and_o not_o the_o grace_n of_o disputation_n may_v prevail_v 6._o and_o so_o christ_n make_v choice_n of_o a_o few_o simple_a man_n to_o convert_v the_o world_n that_o thereby_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o the_o conversion_n thereof_o be_v not_o a_o work_n of_o any_o worldly_a or_o humane_a but_o of_o divine_a power_n and_o virtue_n but_o if_o they_o shall_v not_o convert_v the_o world_n that_o be_v great_a multitude_n and_o several_a nation_n kingdom_n and_o country_n wise_a powerful_a and_o learned_a man_n but_o only_o some_o such_o small_a handful_n as_o you_o will_v have_v your_o little_a flock_n to_o be_v some_o weak_a unlearned_a and_o poor_a people_n as_o you_o will_v have_v your_o church_n to_o consist_v of_o it_o have_v be_v no_o wonder_n at_o all_o for_o we_o see_v many_o sect-maister_n draw_v great_a multitude_n after_o they_o far_o great_a every_o way_n then_o your_o church_n of_o england_n this_o place_n therefore_o which_o you_o bring_v for_o defence_n of_o the_o smallness_n of_o your_o number_n and_o want_v of_o learning_n in_o your_o church_n show_v it_o not_o to_o be_v the_o true_a church_n which_o for_o number_n be_v to_o be_v numberless_a and_o for_o extent_n to_o be_v spread_v over_o the_o world_n 18._o psal_n 18._o in_o omnem_fw-la terram_fw-la exivit_fw-la sonus_fw-la eorum_fw-la say_v holy_a david_n their_o sound_n go_v all_o over_o the_o earth_n whereas_o you_o acknowledge_v the_o contrary_a a_o mark_n of_o your_o church_n the_o true_a church_n be_v to_o consist_v of_o many_o wise_a mighty_a and_o noble_a personage_n gather_v and_o draw_v to_o the_o true_a catholic_a faith_n by_o those_o few_o unlearned_a weak_a and_o ignoble_a people_n for_o so_o s._n paul_n after_o in_o the_o same_o place_n seem_v to_o insinuate_v say_v quae_fw-la stulia_fw-la sunt_fw-la mundi_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o foolish_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n have_v god_n choose_v that_o he_o may_v confound_v the_o wise_a and_o the_o weak_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n have_v god_n choose_v that_o he_o may_v confound_v the_o strong_a and_o the_o base_a thing_n of_o the_o world_n and_o the_o contemptible_a have_v god_n choose_v and_o those_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o that_o he_o may_v destroy_v those_o thing_n which_o be_v so_o as_o you_o see_v these_o few_o weak_a and_o ignorant_a man_n be_v to_o subdue_v the_o learning_n might_n and_o wisdom_n of_o the_o world_n to_o christ_n and_o draw_v it_o to_o his_o church_n and_o this_o be_v that_o which_o david_n say_v that_o he_o
as_o appear_v by_o saint_n augustine_n in_o the_o same_o book_n take_v the_o clean_a contrary_a course_n just_a as_o you_o do_v here_o sir_n humphrey_n 7._o this_o therefore_o be_v the_o thing_n which_o you_o shall_v have_v do_v and_o you_o be_v so_o mistake_v in_o it_o what_o can_v be_v expect_v at_o your_o hand_n but_o that_o by_o decline_v the_o question_n in_o steed_n of_o vindicatinge_v your_o mother_n cause_n and_o maintain_v your_o own_o credit_n you_o betray_v the_o one_o and_o overthrow_v the_o other_o be_v not_o able_a to_o show_v your_o pedigree_n and_o succession_n and_o in_o steed_n of_o make_v man_n see_v it_o be_v no_o difficult_a matter_n to_o prove_v your_o visibility_n to_o make_v they_o see_v it_o be_v not_o only_o difficult_a but_o also_o impossible_a for_o though_o you_o pretend_v facility_n in_o word_n yet_o in_o deed_n you_o show_v impossibility_n that_o than_o which_o you_o say_v in_o your_o bravery_n that_o you_o will_v meet_v the_o adversary_n upon_o his_o 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kingdom_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v his_o church_n grow_v by_o little_a and_o little_a to_o be_v so_o great_a a_o mountain_n as_o it_o fill_v the_o whole_a earth_n at_o which_o time_n certain_o it_o be_v more_o visible_a then_o at_o first_o when_o it_o be_v but_o beginning_n so_o the_o church_n which_o begin_v at_o jerusalem_n &_o from_o thence_o be_v spread_v by_o degree_n to_o other_o country_n and_o be_v to_o go_v on_o increase_v to_o the_o utmost_a bound_n of_o the_o earth_n to_o the_o very_a end_n of_o the_o world_n must_v needs_o be_v more_o visible_a and_o apparent_a as_o it_o go_v more_o dilate_v itself_o in_o space_n of_o place_n and_o continuance_n of_o tyme._n 9_o but_o now_o you_o come_v upon_o we_o with_o a_o counter_a challenge_n demand_v by_o what_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o ancient_a father_n we_o have_v impose_v new_a article_n of_o christian_a belief_n upon_o priest_n and_o people_n for_o as_o you_o say_v truth_n deny_v antiquity_n and_o universality_n to_o 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