Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n
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B02310
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An answer, to a little book call'd Protestancy to be embrac'd or, A new and infallible method to reduce Romanists from popery to Protestancy
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Con, Alexander.
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1686
(1686)
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Wing C5682; ESTC R171481
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80,364
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170
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exhibetur refertur ad prototypa quae illae representant Ita ut per Imagines quas osculamur coram quibus caput aperimus procumbimus Christum adoremus sanctos quorum illae silmitudinem gerunt veneremur Id quod Niceni Synodi Decretis Can. 2. Act. 3 4. contra Imaginum oppugnatores est sancitum That is The Holy Synod c. commands the Pictures of Christ of the Virgin Mother of GOD and other Saints to be had and retained especially in Churches and that one give to them the due respect and Veneration not that we believe that there is any Divinity or Vertue in them for which they are to be Honour'd or that we ought to ask any thing of them or that we ought to put our trust in Pictures as the Gentiles did who plac'd their hope in Idols but because the Honour which is given to them is directed to the Originals which they represent So that by Images which we kiss and afore which we take of our Hats and bow down we Adore Christ and Worship the Saints whose likeness they represent to us And this is ratified by the Decrees of the Council of Nice Can. 2. Act. 3 4. From Image Worship he comes to that of the Consecrated Host and saies this is more intolerable because the Priest may forget the intention of Consecrating or designedly will not to Consecrate it Answer Of this Intention I spoke enough in the matter of Baptism and how hard it is for a Priest not to have a virtual one such as I explained there and which suffices But if you suppose him to omit it maliciously there will not be for that danger of Idolatty for all Worship and Adoration given to the Host altho explicitly and formally it be absolute yet virtually and implicitly it involves this condition If it be Consecrated So if it be not consecrated my adoration doeth not fix on it but goes to him whom I intended to adore not to what I see to wit the species of Bread and thus ther 's no Idolatry commited Because it fals out often that he is thought the Father of a Child who really is not did our Adversary doubt to respect him who was his Father No more Reason have Catholicks to doubt to yield to the Holy Host a Soveraign Worship For the reliques of Saints because we meet with many we know not whither they be authentick or not our respect to them always involves in it this Tacit condition of which above if it be the true relique of such a Saint As to that he sayes 't is not of Faith that the Soul of such a Saint for example of St. Francis of Assisium is in Heaven I deny it because altho' the Pope be not Infallible in his canonizing as some Roman Catholicks hold yet when his Decree is receiv'd by the acceptation of the whole Church by their positive cult and Honouring of the Saint its equivalent to the Decree of a General Council SECT III. Invocation of the Blessed Virgin Mary does not with draw us from God nor dishonour CHRIST OUr Doctrine sayes our Adversary relating to the Mediation of the Virgin Mary and other Saints with-draws us from rendring to Christ due Honour and Glory c. Answer He does not remark the difference which is between Intercession and Impetration Intercession presupposes always a request or desire which is a Prayer made to be presented by the Intercession to God or to him from whom we intend to obtain a Favour to whom the address is made for the Client or Petitioner by the Intercessor Impetration not always for a Favour may be obtained from the King for me on which I did not so much as Dream Thus you see our invocation of Saints as Intercessors does not withdraw us from God because it presupposes the request made to be presented by them to God Nay nor from due Honour to Christ since in all our Prayers in which the Church has her recourse to Saints in the Mass or Breviary after we have begun our Prayer by God saying O God c. we always end per Dominum nostrum Iesum c. desiring that whatsomever we Pray for to be given us from God by the Intercession of Saints come to us through the Merits of Jesus So we only Pray them that they Pray that what we demand may be given us through the Merits of Christ And this way is so far from Dishonouring Christ that it Honours him more as he signified of the Centurion who thinking himself unworthy to approach Christ immediatly made his approach first by his Friends whom he imagin'd more in Favour with Christ Luke 7. v. 3. and 6. And Christ praised him Matth. 8. v. 10. For this Humility proceeding from the Faith he bad of the Grandour of his Person And if God had alwayes demanded our immediate recourse to himself he would not have sent Eliphaz to Iob Iob 42. v. 8. saying Go to my Servant Job and my Servant Job will Pray for you for him will I accept Here you see v. 7. that God would not hear Eliphaz who had offended him Are you who reject the recourse to Saints more Innocent afore God then Eliphaz was Lay your Hand to your Heart But why did God send Eliphaz to Iob Because Iob had Honoured him and God says 1 Sam. 2. cap. v. 30. who will have Honoured me I will Honour him Now for our Invoking the Name of Mary is it less Holy then that of David And yet did not Solomon Pray thus for thy Servant David 's sake turn not away the Face of thy Anointed Psalm 132. v. 10 As if he had Pray'd God thus O Lord who hast said Exod. 20. v. 5. I am the Lord thy God a Zealous God visiting the Iniquity of the Fathers upon the Children into the third and fourth Generation of them that hate me Thou hast also said vers 6. showing Mercies unto thousands of them that love and keep my Commandments Thou then who hast mercy on Children for the Sainctity of their Parents have mercy on me for my Fathers sake What mean't Iacob Gen. 48 v. 14. when he bid his Name be call'd upon the Sons of Iosepth but that he expected God should do them good upon that call for his sake And what mean't Moses praying for the whole People Exod. 32 v. 11. When he besought God to remember Abraham Isaac c And was not God pacified there-with v. 14. Note in the old Testament they did not say as we do now to Saints pray for us because the Fathers were not yet in Heaven nor saw God The way into the Holiest of all was not yet made manifest while as the first Tabernacle was yet standing Heb. 9 v. 8. I avow then we mind indeed sick People invock Jesus and Marry together but in a different way Jesus to save them and Mary to Pray him for them If some simple People rely more on what they do then on what Christ did
the R. Church there has appeared publickly and visibly to whole Nations Men of such Sanctity of Life with the Gifts of Miracles that after their decease their Lives and Miracles done both afore and after their Death having been first severely examin'd and discus'd and then approv'd they were after this Examination declared Saints and as such are for the present Honour'd by the whole Catholick Church If you say what is said of those Saints and their Miracles is but Fabulous Then I ask you if a Iew would say the same to you of our Saviours Miracles How would you convince him For as he denyes the Divinity of CHRIST so he denyes also the New Testament to be the Word of God Laying then aside Divine Revelation had Men at that time more Humane Authority to believe CHRIST's Miracles then we have now to believe the approv'd Miracles of our Saints From all I have said I infer First If the R. Church notwithstanding all these marks be not the true Church of CHRIST he has no true Visible Church upon Earth since there cannot be more clear and Visible Marks of the true Church then these I have brought Secondly I infer that if the Iews seeing some Prophet's Sanctity of Life and Miracles were most reasonably perswaded and convinc'd that GOD directed them by his Spirit and spoke by their Mouths to others We must of necessity believe that the Roman Church is directed by the Spirit of GOD and that He speaks by Her to us Since whatsomever motif you 'l find for that perswasion in a single Prophet you will find it in an higher Degree in the whole Body of the Church Now to make use of our rational faculty in order to see if you have any appearance of a Church among you 't is not enough for you to say that the Protestant Church has the true Worship of God You must bring such proofs as I have brought for the R. Church to prove it This you have never done nor will ever do But to come nigher to you I ask by what motive you can perswade me that Luther and Calvin your first Reformers were mov'd and directed by the Spirit of God in all their oppositions to the Roman Church Can it be imagined that God would have taken from a whole visible Church which had those marks I spoke of the true sense and meaning of the word and given it to Men who leaving the Altar and their Vow of Chastity prostituted themselves becoming the slaves of a shamful and Sacrilegious Passion As to that our Adversary saies the Roman Church Imposes many weighty burdens on her Children beyond what God Commands he is mightily deceiv'd for God commanding us to Worship and obey him he Commands us implicitly to make use of the means most convenient to perform these two duties Now the Church by her Commands does also but show us the fittest means to perform the perfect observation of Gods explicit Command and oblidges us to make use of them and consequently properly speaking there is no new burden impos'd upon us SECT II. Saint Pauls saying whatsomever is Sold in the Shambles c. 1 Cor. 10. v. 24.25.27 makes nothing against our abstinence from Flesh upon forbidden dayes OUr great Defender of the rights and dues of the senses having told us in the Eucharist what the sight claims to now he will not have the Taste depriv'd of its satisfaction Telling us Pag. 107. 't was a liberty and priviledge of the primitive Church as St. Paul witnesses to the Corinthians 1 Cor. 10. that whatsoever is Sold in the Shambless c. we may Eat Answer St. Paul 1 Cor. 10. Having terrified the Christians from Eating with the Gentils in their Solemnities a part of what was offer'd to the Idol because by this Eating they seem'd to approve the Oblation of that Flesh made to the Devil he told them nevertheless that they should not be scrupulous to Buy what they found in the Shambles nor to Eat what was set down before them to Eat at Common Tables out of those Solemnities altho' perchance those Meats had been offer'd to Idols viz. because they being Ignorant of it did not give occasion to think they approv'd that Oblation to the Idol in which onely the Sin was But if it fell out that one should tell them that such a Meat had been offerd to the Idol then he forbid them to Eat of it v. 28. for fear of scandalizing that Person Is not here something refused to Eat altho' it be set down afore me to be Eaten and altho' the thing be good in it self ond belonging to God Was not the forbidden fruit good in it self and yet was it Lawful for Adam to Eat it then with Thanks-giving when God had forbidden it no more is it Lawful to us to Eat Flesh which is good in it self on Fasting dayes because it is then forbidden by the Church of God which God will have us hear as himself Luke 10. v. 16. Who hears you hears me Has not the Church of England taken away that priveledge too when she commands to abstain from Flesh in Lent or at least from Eating a sull Meal till after noon or towards the Evening on their dayes of Humiliation When there is no Danger then of offending God neither by my approbation of an offering to the Devil or Scandalizing my Neighbour St. Paul sayes I may Eat Flesh tho' offer'd to the Devil From that antecedent is this a good Inference then when I know I offend God by Transgressing the Command of his Church and by Scandal of my Neighbour I may Eat Flesh because it is good in it self and at another time may be Eaten with Thanks-giving St. Paul then bids Christians not to scruple to buy or Eat Meat upon a fear that it may be 't was offer'd to Idols because that reason did not make it unlawful to Eat so I was not told of it But he bids not Eat it if it be unlawful upon an other accompt viz. because forbidden on certain dayes by the Church Now to show how pleasing a thing to God and advantageous to our Souls our Fasting is remember that Moses having fasted forty Dayes and forty Nights in the Mountain obtain'd the Favour to see God Face to Face Exod. 24. chap. did not Achab make use of Sack-Cloath and Fasting for the expiation of his Sins 1 Regum 28. did not David after he heard from Nathan that God had Forgiving him his Sin say that his knees were weak through Fasting 2 Sam. 12. chap. Were not Divine Mysteries reveal'd to Daniel after he had Fasted and was he not Favour'd with a Miraculons Dinner by the means of an Angel Daniel 14. In the New Testament did not Christ Fast forty Dayes and forty Nights and so teach us how to overcome the Temptations of the Devil Matth. 4. did not he tell his Disciples that a certain kind of Devils was not cast out but by Prayer and Fasting Math. 17. Our