Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	church_n	communion_n	fellowship_n	1,870	5	10.0945	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85408	Philadelphia: or, XL. queries peaceably and inoffensively propounded for the discovery of truth in this question, or case of conscience; whether persons baptized (as themselves call baptism) after a profession of faith, may, or may not, lawfully, and with good conscience, hold communion with such churches, who judg themselves truly baptized, though in infancy, and before such a profession? Together with some few brief touches about infant, and after-baptism. By J.G. a minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ.	Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665.	1653 (1653)	Wing G1189; Thomason E702_7; ESTC R207109	25,228	32

PHILADELPHIA OR XL QUERIES Peaceably and inoffensively propounded For the Discovery of Truth in this Question or Case of Conscience Whether Persons Baptized as themselves call Baptism after a profession of Faith may or may not lawfully and with a good Conscience hold Communion with such Churches who judg themselves truly Baptized though in Infancy and before such a Profession Together with some few brief Touches about Infant and after-Baptism By J. G. a Minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ I thank God that I baptized none of you but Crispus and Gaius And I baptized also the boushold of Stephanas besides I know not whether I baptized any other For Christ sent me not to baptize but to preach the Gospel 1 Cor. 1. 14 16 17. For ye are all the children of God by Faith in Christ Jesus Gal. 4. 26. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing nor uncircumcision but Faith which worketh by love Gal. 5. 6. Circumcision is nothing nor uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the Commandments of God 1 Cor. 7. 19. Deus nobis imperavit congregationem sibi servavit separationem August in Mat. 13. 47. Infantibus minime negandus Baptismus quos Deus adoptat filii sui sanguine abluit Calvin Harm. p. 253. London Printed by J. M. for Henry Cripps and Lodowick Lloyd and are to be sold at their Shop in Popes-head Alley 1653. QUERIES ABOUT Lawfulness of Communion with Churches deemed unbaptized As also about Infant and after-Baptism I. WHether is there any Precept or Example in the Gosp●l of any person how duly soever baptized who disclaimed Christian Communion either in Church fellowship or in any the Ordinances of the Gospel with those whom he judged true Beleevers upon an account only of their not having been baptized especially after such a manner as he judged necessary for them to have been Or in case there be neither precept nor example found in the Scriptures to warrant such a practise upon what ground are the Consciences of such men who practise it satisfied or emboldened in their way Or if it be replyed that there were no Beleevers in the Apostles days who were not baptized and that truly and consequently that there was no occasion of scrupuling communion with any Beleever in these days 1. How can this ever be proved viz. that there were no Beleevers unbaptized in the Apostles days the contrary being apparant as may be touched hereafter 2. Be it granted that there were no Beleevers unbaptized or unduly baptized in the Apostles days upon what ground notwithstanding can the practise now queried be justified or maintained unless the Practisers certainly know and can satisfie themselves that in case there had been such Beleevers in these times I mean who had been un-baptized or unduly baptized those duly Baptized would have declined such communion with them as that specified especially considering that positive actions such is a declining or withdrawing from communion with the Saints in church-Church-fellowship cannot be justified upon negative grounds at least not further then in point of meer lawfulness or indifferency no nor thus far in case of scandal which is the case of those who withdraw from church-Church-communion to the offence both of that Church from which they withdraw and of many others II. Whether can it be proved from the Scriptures or by any Argument like or meet to satisfie the Conscience of any tender and considering Christian that the Apostles or other Christians in their days would have declined Church-communion with or denyed Church-communion unto such persons whom they judged true Beleevers in Christ and Partakers of like precious Faith with themselves only because they had not been Baptized or dipped in water after a profession of their beleeving especially in case they had been baptized and solemnly consecrated by washing with water unto the service of Jesus Christ before considering that the Apostle Paul expresly saith that in Jesus Christ i. e. under the Gospel or profession of Christ in the world neither Circumcision availeth any thing nor Vncircumcision BUT FAITH which worketh by love a And again That Circumcision is nothing nor Vncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the Commandments of God b meaning that under the Gospel and profession thereof neither did the observation of any external Rite or Ceremony Circumcision by a synecdoche speciei being put for all kind of external Rites or Ceremonies avail or contribute any thing towards the commending of any person unto God nor yet the want of any such observation discommend any man unto God or prejudice his acceptation with him but that which was all in all unto men and which availed any thing in and under the Gospel that which being sound in men rendered them accepted and approved of God and the want of it disapproved was such a kind of Faith not such or such a kind of Ceremony or such or such a kind of Baptism which by the mediation or interveening of that heavenly affection of love uttereth and expresseth it self in keeping the Commandments of God viz. so far as they are made known unto them and as humane infirmity will well bear and admit Or is it to be beleeved that either the Apostles or other Christians taught by them would have rejected those from their communion who were weak in the Faith and were not convinced of every thing that was in any degree necessary for them to know and to do only for want of such an external observance of the lawfulness whereof they were unconvinced and which had they submitted unto it would have availed them little or nothing III. Whether can it be proved by any text or passage of Scripture either directly or by any tolerable consequence that Christian Churches were in the Apostles days constituted by Baptism or that none were reputed members of Churches or admitted into Christian Communion with those who were Baptized but only such who were Baptized likewise considering that that text Acts 2. 41. commonly and only as far as I know pretended for proof of such a thing doth not so much as colour much less cotton with such a supposal or conclusion the tenor of the place being only this Then they that gladly received his word were baptized and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand Souls For 1. It is not here said that all they that gladly received the Word were baptized but indefinitely only They that gladly received c. Now indefinite expressions in Scripture are not always equipollent to universals but sometimes to partitives or particulars When the Apostle speaking of Beleevers under the Old Testament saith that THEY stopped the mouths of Lions quenched the violence of fire c. Hebr. 11. 33 34. he doth not mean that they all did either of these nor indeed that many of them did either See Mat. 27. 34. compared with vers 48. to omit an hundred instances more of like import Yea many times universal expressions

themselves are to be understood with limitation and restraine These things are sufficiently known to persons any thing conversant in the Scriptures 2. Neither is it here said nor is it a thing in it self much probable that ONLY they who were baptized were added unto them i. e. to the pre-ex●stent number of Disciples but only and simply that there were the number of three thousand added the same day Within which number it is the probable opinion of some that the children and families of those who are said to have gladly received the Word are comprehended it being no ways likely scarce possible that 3000 men should distinctly hear the voyce of a man speaking especially unless we shall suppose that these 3000 stood nearest unto him that spake and with the best advantage to hear there being many thousands more present which can hardly be the supposition of any considering man in the case in hand Nor 3. Is it said or so much as intimated or hinted in the least that any of the whole number of the three thousand who were added unto them were added by means or upon the account of their being baptized although this addition be not mentioned till after their baptizing It is ten degrees more probable that their beleeving or discipleship which according to the principles of those Brethren themselves with whom we now argue were precedent to their baptizing and not their being baptized were the reason and ground of Luke's saying they were added unto the Church or former number of Disciples considering 1. That the original main and principal foundation of the holy brotherhood amongst the Saints and that which makes them fellow-members or members one of another is not the Ceremony of their external Baptism but their fellowship and communion in the divine Nature and inward relation unto the same Christ by one and the same precious Faith 2. That it cannot be demonstratively proved from the Scriptures that those hundred and twenty Disciples Act. 1. 15. unto which it is here said that three thousand were added were or had been all of them baptized in as much as as will presently appear there were divers members of Churches in the Apostles days who were unbaptized no nor can it any whit more be proved from Scripture that the Apostles themselves mentioned Act. 1. 13. had been baptized then that John the Baptist was baptized 3. And lastly That had the Church or persons unto whom these three thousand are said to have been added been estimated by their having been baptized which must be supposed if those who are added to them are said to have been added upon the account of their being baptized their number must needs have far exceeded an hundred and twenty considering the great numbers and vast multitudes of persons that had been baptized by John Mat. 3. 5 6. compared with Mark 1. 5. Luk. 3. 7 21. as also by Christ himself and his Disciples Joh. 3. 22 26. Yea had the Church been estimated or constituted by Baptism the Evangelist Luke intending questionless Act. 4. 4. to report the increase of the Church and progress of the Gospel with as much advantage as truth would afford had prevaricated with the cause which he intended to promote in reporting their number to have been about five thousand only when as upon the said supposition and the tenor of the late premisses he might with as much Truth have reported them about forty thousand yea and many more Howbeit many of them which heard the Word BELEEVED and the number of the men were about five thousand In which passage the increase of the Church or addition unto the former Saints is with much more pregnancy of intimation ascribed unto their beleeving then in the other place it is unto their being baptized Therefore both men and women who are indeed tender of Conscience in things appertaining unto God had need have a better foundation to bear them out in their practise of rending and tearing Churches or if this name will not pass of rending and tearing holy Societies and fellowships of Saints then any thing that can be so much as tolerably inferred from the Text now argued Act. 2. 41. IV. Whether did not the Church of Christ at Rome in the Apostles days and so also the Churches in Galatia hold Church-communion with some who were not baptized considering 1. That the Apostle to the former writeth thus Know ye not that SO MANY OF US as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death Rom. 6. 3. and to the latter after the same manner thus For AS MANY OF YOU as have been baptized into Christ Gal. 3. 27. 2. That this particle {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} as many as used in both places is in such constructions as these always partitive distinguishing or dividing the entire number of persons spoken of some from others by the character or property specified or at least supposeth a possibility of such a distinction {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} as many as touched the hem of his garment were made whole Mat. 14. 36. This clearly supposeth either that there were some or at least that there might be some who did not thus touch So again They brought in all AS MANY AS they found c. Mat. 22. 10. So AS MANY i. e. as many men and women as are of the works of the Law are under the curse Gal. 3. 10. See also Mark 3. 10. 6. 11 56. Luk. 4 40. Ioh. 1. 12. Act. 3. 24 with others more of like tenor and import almost without number Therefore is it not without controversie and dispute that the Apostle saying to the Church at Rome and to those in Galatia As MANY OF You as have been baptized c. supposeth either that there actually were or at least that for ought he knew to the contrary there might be sundry of their members who had not been baptized And if he had either known or so much as by conjecture supposed that all the members of these Churches had without exception been baptized is it credible that he would have expressed himself thus unto them respectively As MANY OF You As have been baptized and not rather You having all been baptized or the like V. Whether did not the Church at Corinth in the Apostles days entertain members and hold communion with those who had not been baptized considering that he demandeth thus of this Church Else what shall or what will they do which are baptized for the dead if the dead rise not at all why are they then baptized for the dead c Or doth not this imply that there was a corrupt and superstitious practise on foot in this Church to baptize one or other of the surviving kindred or Friends in the name of such persons respectively who dyed unbaptized and that this Church thought and supposed that such Baptism was available for good unto the deceased in such a case which practise and opinion of

Whether did not Paul and Barnabas hold Christian Communion with those Christian Converts which they made at Antioch Acts 13. 43 48 52. and with those also which they made soon after in great numbers at Iconium Acts 14. 1 4 Or doth it any ways appear from the Scripture that these Converts during the continuance of Paul and Barnabas with them yea or at any time after were baptized If not is it any ways necessary that we should believe or ought it to be any Article of our Faith to believe that they were baptized If it be not necessary then we are at liberty to believe that Paul and Barnabas did hold Christian Communion with unbaptized Christians especially considering that the tenor of the History diligently consulted especially concerning those who were converted to the Faith at Antioch and the short abode of Paul and Barnabas with them after their Conversion together with the troublesom oppositions which the Jews of the place made all the while against them makes it probable in the highest that they were not baptized at least whilest these men continued with them XVII Whether in case any member one or more of any Christian Church or Society which he judgeth faithful in the main and willing and ready to walk up to their light shall verily think and be perswaded that he hath discovered some defect or error in this Church may such an one lawfully and with a good conscience give himself a discharge from all care service otherwise due from him unto it by renouncing the communion thereof upon such a pretence or occasion especially before or until he hath with all long-suffering and meekness and with the best of his understanding endevored the information of this Church in the Truth and the rectifying the judgments of the members thereof considering that as in the natural body so in the spiritual or Church-body the members ought to have the same care one for another and if one member suffereth all the members to suffer with it a as the Apostle speaketh and consequently no one member being healthful and sound ought to desert its fellow-members being sickly and weak especially whilest there is yet any hope of their cure and healing XVIII Whether ought a company of true Believers concerning whose lawful Church constitution there can no other thing with reason and truth be objected to be vilified or separated from as a false Church or no Church of Christ at all only because either 1. They do not practice contrary to their judgment and conscience such things one or more which some men conceive it meet they should practice Or 2. because either God hath not enlightened them to see every thing which some other men see or else because Satan hath not blinded them so as to make them ignorant of such Truths one or more whereof some others are ignorant judging them to be Errors XIX Whether is it reasonable or Christian that a company of true Believers who have met together in the simplicity of their hearts in the fear of God in the Name of Jesus Christ mutually engaging themselves as in the presence of God to walk together in all the Ordinances of the Gospel as far as they shall from time to time be revealed unto them and walking accordingly should be infamously stigmatized as no Church no true Church of Christ and consequently be esteemed but as a rabble rout of the world only pretending Churchship and this by some one or a few persons only because they cannot see with their eyes or practice that as necessary the necessity whereof after much and earnest prayer unto God after much enquiry and search and this with all diligence and impartialness in order to their conviction and satisfaction doth no ways to them appear XX Whether is it Christian or meet for any one person man or woman to bid defiance unto an whole Church or fellowship of Saints being many and who are otherwise sober grave and conscientiously faithful in all their walking onely because they cannot with a good Conscience say Amen to every notion and conceit which these persons themselves judg worthy of reverence and honour and particularly because they cannot against the sence Judgment and practise as well of all Christian Antiquity as of all the Reformed Churches very few if any excepted in the Christian world thus spiritually court their private apprehensions about the time and manner of an external Administration especially considering that they neither have nor can either shew precept example or any competent ground otherwise from the Scriptures to commend these their apprehensions unto the conscience of any man Or is there any precept which injoyns baptizing or dipping in the name of Christ after a baptizing in infancy into this name Or is there any example in Scripture of any baptized after profession of Faith who had been baptized or who judged themselves and were generally so judged by others to have been baptized before If neither is it not a clear case that here is neither precept nor example in Scripture which reacheth home to the case or which warranteth the practice of the Children of after-Baptism amongst us And as for any competent ground otherwise to justifie the practice hath such a thing ever seen the light of the Sun hitherto XXI Whether do not they who magnifie the ceremony or external rite of Baptism to such an height as to estimate Christianity by it or to judg them no true or sound Christians who are without it stumble at the same stone of danger and peril of Soul at which the Jews stumbled when they practiced and urged Circumcision as necessary for Justification to whom upon this account Paul testified Behold I Paul say unto you that if ye be circumcised meaning with an opinion of a necessity of your being circumcised for your Justification before God Christ shall profit you nothing a considering 1. That Circumcision was an Ordinance of God yea as great and solemn an Ordinance as Baptism and 2. That when Paul threatened those who so magnified it as was said with lofing their part and portion in Christ it was as Lawful though haply not so necessary and yet in some cases it was necessary too as Baptism it self yea and the Apostle himself administred it as well as he did Baptism yea and pronounced it profitable rightly understood and practiced Rom. 3. 1. 2. Or might not the same threatening I mean of losing the great blessing of Justification and Salvation by Christ have been with altogether as much truth and necessity administred upon a like occasion and account unto persons so opinionated of circumcision as the Galathians were even when and whilst the use and practice of it was every whit as necessary or rather more necessary as the use of Baptism now is XXII Whether is there any precept or example in the Scriptures of any person Baptized after many years profession of the Gospel or after any considerable measure of assurance