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A35667 Truth outweighing error, or, An ansvver to a treatise lately published by J.B. entituled, A confession of his faith and a reason of his practice, or, With who he can, and with who he cannot hold church-fellowship ... by John Denne ... J. D. (John Denne) 1673 (1673) Wing D1027; ESTC R11873 57,462 128

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Ordinance of God a duty enjoyned such who receive the Gospel And what can be more said if it be a duty enjoyned it is a necessary duty c. Wherefore I shall only add for Confirmation some Arguments as follow viz. Arg. 1. If the non-subjection to Baptism debars men from Church-Communion Then the subjection thereto is necessary in order to Church-Communion But the non-subjection to Baptism debars men from Church-Communion Ergo. The Major is undeniable the Minor I shall prove thus Arg. 2. If the walking disorderly not according to the Traditions received from the Apostles debars men from Church-Communion Then the non-subjection to Baptism debars men from Church-Communion But the walking disorderly not according to the Traditions received from the Apostles debars men from Church-Communion Ergo. The Minor is proved 2 Thess 3.6 where the Apostle commands That all who walk disorderly not according to their Traditions should be debarred Communion The Major I prove thus Arg. 3. If the non-subjection to Baptism be a disorderly walking not according to the Traditions of the Apostles Then the Major is true But the non-subjection to Baptism is a disorderly walking not according to the Traditions of the Apostles Ergo. Nothing in this Argument can be questioned except the Minor and that surely cannot be denied by John Bunyan with whom I have now to deal for by his own Confession pag. 64. Baptism is an Ordinance of Jesus Christ an holy Ordinance of God pag. 123. and that of excellent use to instruct in the most weighty matters of the Kingdom of God p. 65. an enjoyned Duty p. 122. an apparant Tradition of the Apostles for in those dayes he confesseth pag. 70. it was administred upon Conversion and used then to go before Church-Communion Again Arg. 4. If the non-subjection to Baptism be a sin against God a rejecting the Counsel of God against our selves and the breach of a good Conscience Then it debars men from Church-Communion But the non-subjection to Baptism is a sin against God a rejecting the Counsel of God against our selves and the breach of a good Conscience Ergo. The Major I think none can deny and the Minor is evident by John Bunyan's own Confession as aforesaid and the Scriptures before alleaged Matth. 28.19 7.29 1 Pet. 3.21 Further Arg. 5. If all Church-Members in the Apostles dayes were baptized Then Baptism is necessary to Church-Communion But all Church-Members in the Apostles dayes were baptized Ergo. One would think this Argument should put the matter out of doubt both Propositions being acknowledged by John Bunyan himself yea urged by him as weighty truths for he makes the Example of the Primitive New-Testament-Churches the ground of his Communion p. 52. yea so far that he saith He dares not do otherwise than they did And if we follow that Rule proposed by himself we must not do otherwise and what then Surely they baptized all Church-members before Communion as he confesseth pag. 91. But that I may not conclude with the Confession of a man so various although it may well be alleaged against himself as in one little Treatise to speak so many inconsistencies I shall proceed to another Argument Arg. 6. If all Church-members are commanded to be baptized Then the subjection to Baptism is necessary to Church-Communion But all Church-members are commanded to be baptized Ergo. The Major is apparent The Minor I prove thus Arg. 7. If Baptism is commanded to all Disciples Then it is commanded to all Church-members But Baptism is commanded to all Disciples Ergo. No man can doubt of the truth of the Major that believeth Church-members to be Disciples which I suppose no Christian in his right mind will deny And the Minor I shall prove from the words of Christ Matth. 28.19 20. Go teach all Nations baptizing them c. the Text is read 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which being interpreted is Disciple ye all Nations baptizing them c. viz. those that are Discipled as by the Grammatical construction of the words may appear teaching them that is the baptized Disciples to observe or keep diligently all things whatsoever I have commanded you One whereof was to baptize those that were discipled But it seems that either J. B. was never a baptized Disciple or that his Instructors forgot to teach him this Rule of Christ or else he hath soon forgotten what he learned if it be not a perverse transgressing of what he knoweth and so guilty of many stripes Luk. 12.47 But to return since John Bunyan is pleased notwithstanding his aforementioned Confessions to deny Baptism to be the Rule of Communion let us hear what Rule he would have which he thus declares pag. 78. Even that rule by which they are discovered to the Church to be visible Saints and willing to be gathered into their Body and Fellowship Answ Well said but how must that be if not by obedience to Christ's Ordinances to the holy Ordinances of God yea the Principles of the Doctrine of Christ is not the subjecting thereto a discovery of a visible Saint and a willingness to be gathered into the Body even the Church John Bunyan to this pag. 79. answers No it is not saith he the practising of a circumstantial but the commendation of their Faith by the Word of Faith and their conversation by a moral Precept wherefore he tells us pag. 79. That when Paul had declared his Faith he falls down to the body of the Law saying Receive us we have wronged no man we have corrupted no man we have defrauded no man 2 Cor. 7.2 From whence with divers such Instances and Paraphrases of his own thereupon he concludes pag. 79. That by the Word of Faith and good Works viz. Moral Duties Gospelized we ought to judge of the fitness of Members by which we ought also to receive them into Fellowship Answ We read that Moses put a vail over his face to hinder the splendor of his countenance from dazling the eyes of the beholders but lo here J. B. puts a vail over his face to impede the discovery of his perverting the Ordinances of God and the Rule of Communion which that I may so far put away that he may appear as he is Concerning what is said Consider First how this Thesis is consistent with John Bunyan's own judgment concerning Circumcision for sure Baptism is not more a Circumstance than that yet by his own grant that was of old the Rule of Communion Secondly Why in his sense he should call Baptism a Circumstance I know not it hath been proved a Principle of the Doctrine of Christ a Foundation-principle Heb. 6.1 A necessary duty a duty enjoyned to those that receive the Gospel and is it notwithstanding all this but such a Circumstance the Lord God of Heaven judge between us Again He comes to affirm pag. 79. what is the Rule of Communion viz. To have our Faith commended by the Word of Faith and our Conversation by a
c. were accepted as Church-members in general and so of every Church in particular and that even upon their Baptism although this Anti-Baptism would have you believe that in the second of the Acts Baptism and adding to the Church appear to be two distinct things whom I would have remember Solomon his advice Prov. 30.6 Add thou not to his words lest he reprove thee and thou be found a lyar But John Bunyan is now grown positive and confidently saith pag. 76. Take it again Baptism makes thee no member of the Church neither particular nor universal neither doth it make thee a visible Saint It therefore gives thee neither right to nor being of Membership at all Answ Here is a brave flourish but an impudent assertion contrary to truth but no marvel that you find him contrary to truth who is contrary to almost all Christians yea to himself and that often in one little Book Wherefore although he excludes Baptism so utterly as to say it doth not make us members at all yet I shall affirm that Baptism in a sense yea in a great measure doth make us Church-members which also J. Bunyan doth confess and that from the Example of the Primitive Saints For he acknowledgeth pag. 70. That in the Primitive times Baptism was administred upon Conversion yea he further grants pag. 91. That in the Apostles dayes Water-Baptism went before Church-Membership Now that which was administred upon the Conversion of Persons yea before they were Church-members and thereupon to be accounted Church-members which John Bunyan in his right mind is forced to acknowledge of Baptism sure must be said in a great measure to make us Church-members and Baptism being so administred in the Primitive times is it not necessary it should be so now Can we alter the Primitive manner of receiving into the Church without being guilty of great iniquity ought we not to follow the Examples of the Primitive Churches Since I have proceeded thus far having now the appearance of so good grounds I shall through God's assistance adventure to prove the necessity thereof not being at all affrighted with J. Bunyan's opprobrious censures wherein if I should affirm Baptism to be an initiating Ordinance it would appear to be true by John Bunyan's own Confession Arg. 1. For that which ought to be administred upon Conversion before Church-membership is an initiating Ordinance But Baptism ought to be administred before Church-membership upon Conversion Ergo. The Major I suppose none will deny the Minor I prove thus Arg. 2. If Baptism was so administred in the Primitive Churches Then it ought to be so now But Baptism was so administred in the Primitive Churches Ergo. The Minor is J. Bunyan's own grant pag. 70. pag. 91. The Major is proved 1 Thess 4.1 where the Apostle beseecheth and exhorteth and that by the Lord Jesus That Saints should walk as we have received from them yea in 2 Thess 3.6 he commands the Churches in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ to with-draw from every one that walketh so disorderly viz. not according to the Traditions of the Apostles Again Is not Baptism called Heb. 5.12 Chap. 6.1 2. one of the first Principles of the Oracles of God a Principle of the Doctrine of Christ part of the Foundation and what is that but an initiating or entring Ordinance Is not the laying the foundation of an house a great entrance to the building So is Baptism in the practice of Christianity And are not the first Principles in any Matter or Doctrine the initiating or entring thereinto The same is Baptism as aforesaid in Christianity I might evidently set forth that it may truly be so called but leaving that denomination I shall touching the Controversie in hand state this Proposition viz. That Baptism is a duty necessarily to be observed by Christians in obedience to God and in order to Church-Communion I say necessarily to be observed for some things are lawful for a Christian but not expedient Some things again are expedient but not necessary but other things are necessary and must be done of which sort is Baptism This Christ himself testifieth Matth. 3.15 Thus it behooveth us mark he speaketh not particularly of himself but also of his followers us And also he saith Thus it behoveth Oportet nos we must do thus to fulfil God's righteous Commands When Paul was miraculously converted he was Commanded by the Lord to go into the City and there it should be told him what he must do Acts 9.6 and what that was appears from the words of Ananias rehearsed by Paul himself Acts 22.16 Arise and be baptized This Peter sheweth the necessity of 1 Pet. 3.21 by a figurative demonstration speaking of the Ark of Noah Wherein few that is eight Souls were saved by Water The like figure whereunto saith he Baptism doth also now save us Surely the Ark was so necessary for their Salvation viz. their preservation from death that only they that were therein were saved and the Apostle tells you Baptism is the like but as he afterwards explains not the putting away the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good Conscience towards God Now how necessary a good Conscience is and how much to be pressed after I think I need not tell you and Baptism is the answer of a good Conscience towards God it is so venerable an Ordinance notwithstanding John Bunyan is pleased to slight it saying pag. 104. We are not the better if we do it or the worse if we do it not not the better saith he before God nor the worse before men That those who are subject thereto are said Luk. 7.29 to justifie God what greater applause can men have and on the contrary those that do not submit thereto reject the Counsel of God against themselves and must not this be concluded to be a necessary duty yea surely it was Commanded by Christ himself Matth. 28.19 to be administred to all Disciples Disciple all Nations baptizing them c. teaching them that are so baptized to observe the same vers 20. in the performance whereof Christ hath promised his continual Presence wherefore Peter gave this counsel to the distressed Jews Act. 2.38 that cried out in great terror What shall we do Repent and be baptized every one of you As this was his advice to the distressed so also it was to those that received the holy Spirit plentifully Acts 10.48 He commanded them to be baptized in the Name of the Lord. It seems it is an Ordinance meet to be observed by all sorts of Christians the Jayler and his house Acts 16.33 Lydia and her house vers 15. Crispus and his house Acts 18.8 Samaria Acts 8.12 the Eunuch vers 38. yea all without exception that gladly received the Word were baptized and thereupon added to the Church Acts 2.41 I might be large herein but John Bunyan hath spared my labour for he yields the case and confesseth pag. 122 123. That Baptism is an holy
Circumstance or Substance which is apparently false God is hereby made the Author of sin for in this Reason he urgeth That the Church ought to bear with the sinful infirmities of their Brethren For those he saith are caused for want of Light And how come they to want Light he tells you pag. 94. It is God that creates Light and he that with-holdeth So that God not creating Light in their hearts causeth them to err and to be guilty of sinful infirmities Is not here verified what is written God shall send them strong delusions to believe a lye Is not this according to the words of that idle Servant Matth. 25.24 who saith of God he knew him to be an hard man reaping where thou hast not sown and gathering where thou hast not strawed So saith John Bunyan who without Repentance may expect the like sentence Reas 5. I come now to his 5th Reason p. 104. Because a failer in such a Circumstance as Water doth not unchristian us This must needs be granted not only from what was said before but for that thousands of thousands that could not consent thereto are now with the innumerable company of Angels c. wherefore what is said of eating or the contrary may as to this be said of Water-baptism neither if I am baptized am I the better neither if I be not am I the worse not the better before God nor the worse before Men Whereupon after some plausible words he concludes pag. 106. seeing the things wherein we exceed each other are such as neither make nor mar Christianity let us love one another and walk together according to the glorious Rule above specified meaning to have Church-Communion with unbaptized persons Answ To love one another I should readily consent for we ought to love all men But for Church-Communion I cannot until I see it proved that we ought to do so which I am sure John Bunyan hath not for he hath not yet proved it lawful much less expedient but further from being necessary which he pretends And surely this Reason cannot sway a wise man to do that which is not proved lawful I say this Reason which is grounded upon a false Position for although Baptism doth not make a Christian yet the want of it may mar a Christian and the neglect thereof unchristian men For he that despiseth God although once honoured shall be lightly esteemed 1 Sam. 2.30 A good Conscience may be put away 1 Tim. 1.19 that there may be need of the formation of Christ in the heart again Gal. 4.19 John Bunyan's instance of the thousand thousands that did not consent to Baptism which are now as he saith in Heaven is no sufficient proof that it ought to be or that it may be despised now I suppose he will confess there are thousand thousands as much in Heaven as they who did not believe that Christ was then come in the flesh but he that denieth it now is Antichrist 1 Joh. 4.3 And notwithstanding John Bunyan's confidence if he should now deny Christ come in the flesh it would unchristian him I might give many more instances in this case but from hence you may perceive how inconsiderate he is to conclude that of Baptism from false grounds which Paul speaketh of eating meats which were lawful to be eaten or not eaten Would any wise man oppose such indifferent things to an Ordinance and Institution of Christ Jesus sure Obedience to express Commands whatsoever we are before men makes us better before God Reas 6. I come now to his 6th Reason p. 107. I am therefore for holding Communion thus because the Edification of Souls in the Faith and Holiness of the Gospel is of greater concernment than our agreeing in or contesting for the business of Water-baptism That the Edification of the Soul is of the greatest concern is out of measure evident c. Answ John Bunyan's Position here stated he endeavoureth by divers Reasons to prove viz. That the Edification of the Soul is of the greatest concern which I here omit because whilst he endeavoureth to prove that he mistakes the matter in question for it is apparent that Baptism and the rest of Christ's Ordinances are the means appointed for the Edification of the Souls of men and if so the Argument is fallacious and must fall which surely he is himself conscious of and therefore to prevent it he saith pag. 109. Know that the Edification of the Church of God dependeth not upon neither is tyed to this or that Circumstance Much said but little proved wherefore in short I may answer You have only J. Bunyan's word for it who herein doth not only exclude Baptism but also whatsoever he is pleased to call a Circumstance whereof the Supper of the Lord is one by his own confession pag. 64. so that it also is excluded by him from Church-Edification contrary to what is declared of the Primitive Saints who walking in the fear of God having Fellowship one with another were edified yea Paul accounts Church-discipline for the Edification of the Church 2 Cor. 13.10 And in truth all Gospel-Ordinances are for Edification so that if we must press after that it obligeth us to press after the means tending thereto But J. Bunyan seems to put a little gloss upon the matter viz. When there is in the hearts of the Godly different perswasions about it then it becometh them in the wisdom of God to take more care for their peace and unity than to widen their uncomfortable differences Thus J. Bunyan would have the Churches to be like Simeon and Levi Brethren agreeing in iniquity to bear with sin and to wink at the trangressions of Christ's Ordinances rather than to disagree thereupon contrary to the advice of the Apostle who as he withstood Peter to the face because he was to be blamed Gal. 2.11 directs That if any Brother walketh disorderly viz. in disobedience to Christ's Ordinances he must be withdrawn from 2 Thess 3.6 But John Bunyan to perswade the Churches to strike hands in disobedience and to countetenance their doings therein alleageth pag. 110 divers instances of unlawful things done of old yet winked at if not approved To all which if it be so sure the Apostle's words Rom. 6.1 What shall we say thereto shall we continue in sin that grace may abound God forbid might to sober men be a sufficient answer But that I might discharge my duty herein I shall give for the better satisfaction of those concerned a particular Answer thereto in order His first Instance is of Aaron pag. 109. in these words Although Aaron transgressed the Law because he eat not the Sin-Offering of the People yet seeing he could not do it with satisfaction to his own Conscience Moses was content that he left it undone Levit. 10.16.20 Answ John Bunyan tells us That Aaron transgressed the Law because the Law was against his Conscience and that Moses was content therewith but surely then Moses was not faithful in