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saint_n church_n communion_n creed_n 2,413 5 10.5759 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A52018 Roman Catholicks uncertain whether there be any true priests or sacraments in the church of Rome evinced by an argument urg'd and maintain'd (upon their own principles) against Mr. Edward Goodall of Prescot in Lancashire / by Thomas Marsden ... Marsden, Thomas. 1688 (1688) Wing M725; ESTC R726 93,249 146

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roman_n catholic_n uncertain_a whether_o there_o be_v any_o true_a priest_n or_o sacrament_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n evince_v by_o a_o argument_n urge_v and_o maintain_v upon_o their_o own_o principle_n against_o mr_n edward_n goodall_n of_o prescot_n in_o lancashire_n by_o thomas_n marsden_n vicar_n of_o walton_n in_o the_o same_o county_n the_o treatise_n divide_v into_o two_o part_n the_o first_o be_v explicative_a of_o term_n the_o second_o argumentative_a london_n print_v for_o walter_n kettilby_n at_o the_o bishop's-head_n in_o st._n paul_n churchyard_n mdclxxxviii_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o protestant_a reader_n courteous_a reader_n if_o thou_o be_v skill_v in_o good_a author_n i_o free_o make_v thou_o judge_n of_o these_o paper_n and_o covet_v thy_o admonition_n if_o thou_o see_v any_o thing_n material_a amiss_o in_o they_o defire_v nothing_o more_o than_o that_o truth_n may_v take_v place_n i_o have_v nothing_o more_o to_o say_v to_o thou_o if_o thou_o be_v what_o i_o suppose_v thou_o to_o be_v but_o if_o thou_o be_v less_o see_v in_o book_n i_o crave_v leave_n to_o give_v thou_o some_o advice_n read_v over_o this_o small_a treatise_n with_o a_o present_a mind_n and_o such_o light_n may_v chance_v to_o beam_n forth_o from_o it_o upon_o thy_o understanding_n as_o may_v show_v thou_o the_o crazy_a estate_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n notwithstanding_o the_o proclamation_n many_o make_v of_o its_o welfare_n if_o thou_o find_v thou_o not_o one_o person_n of_o that_o communion_n measure_v his_o state_n by_o their_o own_o doctrine_n can_v be_v certain_a whether_o he_o enjoy_v the_o ordinary_a mean_n appoint_v by_o god_n for_o man_n salvation_n which_o i_o pretend_v to_o prove_v i_o will_v oblige_v thou_o to_o these_o few_o thing_n 1._o hearty_o to_o pity_v they_o and_o pray_v that_o it_o may_v be_v better_o with_o they_o pray_v i_o say_v that_o they_o may_v see_v and_o reject_v their_o error_n and_o retain_v neither_o more_o nor_o less_o for_o faith_n 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sufficient_a 32_o section_n vii_o r._n catholic_n not_o certain_a of_o their_o priesthood_n take_v in_o general_a by_o any_o simple_a or_o absolute_a certainty_n nor_o certain_a of_o it_o take_v in_o special_a by_o any_o simple_a or_o so_o much_o as_o a_o moral_a certainty_n 35_o section_n viii_o the_o several_a explication_n before_o give_v sum_v up_o and_o the_o question_v resolve_v into_o its_o part_n 41_o the_o general_n content_v of_o the_o second_o part_n section_n i._n the_o general_a order_n of_o proceed_v the_o first_o part_n of_o mr._n g_n letter_n set_v down_o and_o examine_v 43_o section_n ii_o mr._n goodall_n set_v forth_o the_o argument_n and_o his_o answer_n to_o it_o as_o follows_z 50_o section_n iii_o a_o more_o general_a view_n of_o the_o mistake_v of_o mr._n g's_o answer_n 54_o section_n iu._n the_o intention_n of_o the_o bishop_n in_o
a_o visible_a sign_n which_o be_v the_o genus_fw-la of_o a_o sacrament_n this_o point_n be_v fix_v i_o come_v to_o ask_v what_o if_o there_o happen_v to_o be_v no_o true_a consecration_n when_o the_o exterior_a sacramental_a action_n be_v do_v which_o be_v a_o thing_n you_o all_o grant_n may_v happen_v happen_v 10._o why_o the_o same_o adoration_n be_v pay_v still_o upon_o a_o presumption_n of_o true_a consecration_n if_o i_o ask_v again_o what_o be_v adore_v in_o that_o case_n it_o must_v be_v answer_v a_o creature_n viz._n the_o bread_n be_v adore_v instead_o of_o god._n and_o then_o this_o be_v in_o one_o sense_n or_o another_o idolatry_n it_o follow_v also_o upon_o the_o same_o ground_n that_o when_o man_n be_v uncertain_a whether_o there_o be_v true_a consecration_n they_o be_v also_o uncertain_a whether_o they_o commit_v not_o idolatry_n in_o such_o their_o adoration_n now_o i_o conclude_v that_o roman_a catholic_n be_v at_o no_o time_n certain_a that_o they_o commit_v not_o 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many_o and_o grievous_a sin_n and_o supply_v for_o their_o several_a necessity_n nor_o do_v this_o profit_n man_n alive_a only_a but_o after_o death_n thus_o your_o church_n teach_v i_o can_v but_o acknowledge_v that_o this_o doctrine_n be_v believe_v among_o you_o for_o i_o find_v that_o most_o man_n of_o estate_n in_o your_o communion_n do_v at_o their_o death_n leave_v good_a round_a sum_n of_o money_n to_o certain_a priest_n who_o in_o consideration_n of_o it_o be_v to_o shorten_v their_o benefactor_n stay_v in_o the_o acute_a pain_n of_o purgatory_n by_o say_v of_o mass_n or_o offer_v this_o sacrifice_n in_o their_o behalf_n and_o if_o this_o doctrine_n be_v true_a the_o service_n do_v they_o be_v worth_a their_o money_n which_o can_v be_v better_a employ_v otherwise_o otherwise_o 12._o but_o if_o there_o be_v no_o consecration_n make_v by_o those_o respective_a priest_n who_o promise_v to_o help_v they_o by_o that_o mean_n there_o will_v be_v a_o great_a disappointment_n 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mention_v by_o i_o as_o confirmation_n and_o extreme_a unction_n as_o not_o know_v whether_o the_o minister_n of_o they_o can_v effectual_o and_o do_v actual_o intend_v in_o the_o administration_n of_o they_o without_o which_o as_o i_o have_v often_o show_v there_o be_v no_o sacrament_n be_v almost_o weary_a of_o enlarge_n on_o particular_n i_o have_v put_v these_o together_o number_n and_o describe_v all_o the_o great_a effect_n you_o can_v attribute_v to_o they_o and_o in_o any_o thing_n of_o this_o kind_n i_o will_v grant_v your_o supposition_n for_o argument-sake_n as_o i_o have_v all_o along_o in_o these_o paper_n and_o after_o you_o have_v do_v this_o you_o will_v find_v that_o no_o roman_a catholic_n be_v fure_z he_o share_v in_o any_o one_o of_o they_o for_o the_o reason_n often_o allege_v before_o bishop_n priest_n and_o all_o other_o member_n of_o your_o communion_n be_v wrap_v up_o in_o a_o inextricable_a uncertainty_n uncertainty_n 14._o all_o i_o can_v honest_o to_o the_o 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misery_n to_o roman_a catholic_n on_o these_o two_o ground_n put_v together_o 1._o there_o be_v no_o sacramental_a grace_n convey_v where_o there_o be_v no_o true_a sacrament_n the_o term_n be_v essential_o relative_n 2._o there_o be_v a_o equal_a uncertainty_n of_o the_o sacrament_n and_o of_o the_o fruit_n of_o they_o now_o i_o say_v each_o roman_a catholic_n for_o aught_o he_o can_v know_v want_v the_o sacrament_n and_o by_o consequence_n their_o effect_n and_o if_o he_o have_v they_o he_o yet_o want_v the_o comfort_n of_o know_v it_o which_o make_v the_o roman_a church_n in_o a_o sad_a condition_n sir_n when_o you_o have_v consider_v what_o have_v be_v already_o say_v i_o will_v commend_v a_o few_o inference_n more_o to_o the_o exercise_n of_o your_o thought_n thought_n 17._o 1._o if_o none_o of_o you_o can_v know_v that_o any_o particular_a man_n in_o your_o church_n be_v a_o
true_a bishop_n or_o priest_n which_o be_v prove_v it_o follow_v that_o the_o jesuit_n who_o lie_v so_o much_o weight_n upon_o the_o papal_a chair_n can_v know_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v so_o much_o as_o a_o priest_n nor_o consequent_o that_o he_o be_v a_o infallible_a judge_n of_o faith._n those_o they_o account_v successor_n of_o saint_n peter_n in_o the_o universal_a pastorship_n of_o the_o church_n to_o who_o they_o appropriate_a special_a privilege_n and_o particular_o that_o of_o infallibility_n be_v not_o to_o be_v layman_n sure_a but_o such_o as_o have_v the_o sacerdotal_a character_n but_o since_o no_o man_n alive_a as_o be_v prove_v be_v sure_o according_a to_o your_o doctrine_n that_o any_o particular_a man_n be_v priest_n no_o man_n be_v sure_a the_o pope_n be_v such_o and_o consequent_o that_o he_o be_v a_o infallible_a judge_n of_o controversy_n the_o intention_n of_o he_o who_o baptise_a and_o ordain_v the_o pope_n and_o the_o capacity_n of_o his_o ordainer_n be_v and_o ever_o will_v be_v hide_v thing_n and_o hence_o spring_v the_o uncertainty_n uncertainty_n 18._o 2._o now_o a_o word_n to_o those_o call_v the_o parisian_a divine_n if_o you_o can_v know_v that_o any_o particular_a man_n be_v true_a bishop_n or_o priest_n you_o can_v know_v that_o any_o of_o your_o roman_a council_n have_v define_v infallible_a truth_n in_o as_o much_o as_o yourselves_o hold_v that_o the_o promise_n of_o divine_a assistance_n by_o which_o alone_o they_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v preserve_v inerrable_a be_v not_o make_v to_o any_o assembly_n but_o such_o as_o consist_v of_o man_n in_o holy_a order_n you_o be_v indeed_o content_a that_o layman_n be_v present_a there_o and_o act_n in_o a_o certain_a inferior_a sphere_n viz._n that_o they_o assist_v in_o examine_v difficulty_n consult_v debate_n approve_v protect_v etc._n etc._n but_o to_o none_o of_o they_o do_v you_o allow_v the_o power_n of_o determination_n or_o decision_n those_o synod_n then_o as_o yourselves_o hold_v be_v to_o be_v make_v up_o of_o bishop_n or_o priest_n or_o both_o now_o because_o it_o can_v be_v know_v that_o these_o ever_o have_v priestly_a order_n for_o want_v of_o knowledge_n that_o they_o be_v true_o baptise_a and_o ordain_v you_o must_v be_v uncertain_a whether_o such_o be_v true_a council_n and_o consequent_o whether_o they_o decree_v and_o define_v infallible_a faith._n although_o you_o may_v have_v some_o true_a priest_n in_o general_a yet_o in_o regard_n you_o be_v uncertain_a who_o they_o be_v how_o know_v you_o that_o the_o major_a part_n of_o such_o council_n ex_fw-la gr_n that_o of_o trent_n be_v true_a priest_n and_o consequent_o capable_a of_o make_v infallible_a determination_n i_o will_v speak_v a_o less_o word_n how_o know_v you_o that_o the_o four_o part_n there_o be_v such_o you_o may_v have_v a_o true_a clergy_n i_o say_v and_o yet_o it_o be_v possible_a that_o few_o or_o none_o of_o they_o may_v be_v in_o that_o synod_n for_o the_o clergy_n in_o a_o council_n usual_o bear_v but_o a_o very_a small_a proportion_n for_o number_n to_o the_o rest_n many_o of_o these_o may_v possible_o have_v true_a order_n when_o most_o of_o the_o member_n of_o such_o a_o council_n want_v they_o unless_o you_o know_v both_o the_o capacity_n and_o intention_n of_o those_o who_o baptise_a and_o ordain_v such_o member_n you_o be_v not_o as_o have_v be_v prove_v assure_v they_o be_v bishop_n or_o priest_n and_o consequent_o that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n assist_v they_o in_o their_o work_n if_o send_v man_n to_o a_o council_n will_v indeed_o by_o post-fact_n justify_v man_n baptism_n and_o order_n it_o be_v well_o worth_a the_o while_n whatever_o it_o cost_v to_o have_v as_o frequent_v council_n as_o possible_a and_o to_o send_v numerous_a flock_n of_o the_o clergy_n thither_o to_o stay_v one_o session_n to_o be_v succeed_v still_o by_o more_o till_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o the_o baptism_n and_o order_n of_o most_o of_o the_o bishop_n and_o priest_n be_v remove_v but_o i_o think_v myself_o the_o first_o that_o ever_o speak_v of_o this_o cure_n for_o this_o disease_n and_o therefore_o think_v it_o will_v never_o be_v plead_v against_o i_o by_o my_o adversary_n however_o the_o distemper_n remain_v till_o some_o remedy_n be_v find_v out_o you_o know_v not_o that_o the_o member_n of_o your_o council_n be_v true_a priest_n and_o so_o interest_v in_o the_o promise_n of_o divine_a assistance_n and_o so_o capable_a of_o make_v infalltble_a decision_n decision_n 19_o 3._o for_o those_o that_o hold_v pope_n and_o council_n when_o conjoin_v to_o be_v infallible_a i_o say_v but_o this_o to_o they_o neither_o pope_n nor_o council_n will_v be_v more_o sure_o prove_v to_o have_v have_v baptism_n and_o order_n when_o they_o be_v together_o than_o when_o they_o be_v a-sunder_o that_o be_v it_o can_v be_v prove_v at_o all_o if_o the_o roman_a doctrine_n by_o i_o exhibit_v be_v true_a and_o then_o they_o can_v hardly_o be_v think_v to_o be_v infallible_a determiner_n of_o faith._n faith._n 20._o 4._o if_o no_o roman_a catholic_n can_v know_v that_o any_o particular_a man_n of_o they_o be_v a_o true_a priest_n than_o the_o boast_a argument_n take_v from_o the_o uninterrupted_n succession_n of_o lawful_a pastor_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v of_o no_o force_n till_o they_o can_v be_v sure_a of_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o respective_a baptizer_n of_o every_o pope_n and_o that_o every_o pope_n from_o the_o apostle_n day_n hitherto_o be_v ordain_v by_o such_o as_o be_v capable_a of_o give_v they_o order_n and_o intend_v to_o do_v it_o in_o each_o respective_a ordination_n which_o as_o i_o have_v evince_v can_v never_o be_v know_v their_o succession_n rest_v but_o upon_o bare_a presumption_n without_o proof_n and_o therefore_o amount_v not_o to_o a_o cogent_a argument_n thus_o have_v i_o as_o i_o think_v accomplish_v my_o undertake_n not_o leave_v one_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a communion_n certain_a that_o there_o be_v among_o they_o any_o one_o true_a priest_n in_o particular_a nor_o any_o sacrament_n in_o particular_a give_v or_o receive_v in_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o all_o this_o from_o the_o medium_fw-la i_o lay_v down_o at_o first_o viz._n your_o doctrine_n of_o the_o intention_n intention_n 21._o now_o i_o think_v fit_a to_o re-mind_n the_o reader_n that_o to_o do_v this_o 1._o i_o have_v explicate_v the_o term_n from_o roman_a catholic_n author_n 2._o i_o have_v take_v their_o doctrine_n for_o the_o ground_n of_o my_o inference_n nor_o have_v i_o in_o order_n to_o any_o part_n of_o my_o work_n need_v to_o ruffle_v or_o quarrel_v any_o of_o their_o notion_n otherwise_o than_o my_o mere_a deduction_n from_o their_o principle_n will_v do_v it_o it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o i_o if_o they_o will_v make_v seventy_o instead_o of_o seven_o sacrament_n provide_v i_o prove_v they_o be_v not_o certain_a of_o their_o give_v and_o receive_v they_o it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o i_o if_o they_o shall_v make_v each_o bishop_n of_o their_o church_n as_o infalllible_a as_o the_o jesuit_n make_v the_o pope_n and_o every_o provincial_a council_n as_o infallible_a as_o they_o do_v those_o they_o call_v general_n provide_v i_o prove_v they_o can_v be_v sure_a that_o those_o bishop_n or_o member_n of_o council_n be_v in_o holy_a order_n and_o thereby_o capable_a of_o that_o power_n of_o decision_n or_o determination_n which_o they_o will_v attribute_v to_o they_o none_o then_o ought_v to_o wonder_v that_o i_o speak_v their_o language_n without_o cross_v several_a principle_n of_o they_o which_o i_o have_v occasion_n to_o mention_v since_o it_o have_v be_v my_o only_a design_n to_o render_v all_o their_o thing_n loose_a and_o uncertain_a from_o their_o own_o doctrine_n doctrine_n 22._o if_o it_o be_v say_v i_o have_v prove_v some_o thing_n which_o roman_n catholic_n deny_v not_o i_o answer_v 1._o the_o worst_a that_o will_v follow_v hence_o be_v there_o be_v a_o little_a labour_n lose_v 2._o it_o may_v be_v of_o some_o advantage_n to_o the_o truth_n to_o publish_v that_o among_o the_o vulgar_a which_o though_o the_o more_o learned_a romanist_n can_v deny_v yet_o they_o will_v glad_o bury_v in_o silence_n this_o article_n of_o the_o intention_n i_o believe_v to_o be_v one_o of_o that_o kind_n for_o want_v of_o represent_v this_o honest_o and_o general_o the_o credulity_n of_o person_n of_o both_o persuasion_n be_v apt_a to_o be_v abuse_v abuse_v 23._o 1._o not_o a_o few_o of_o the_o romanist_n be_v liable_a to_o be_v fill_v with_o a_o ungrounded_a confidence_n that_o sacramental_a grace_n ever_o attend_v the_o performance_n of_o the_o exterior_a sacramental_a action_n one_o of_o that_o sort_n i_o can_v name_v who_o upon_o receive_v a_o absolution_n from_o his_o confessor_n come_v forth_o of_o his_o house_n and_o leap_v up_o for_o joy_n and_o tell_v some_o judicious_a